Mafia TBT Mini Mafia II: Catch Scum or Catch Scurvy [Game Over/Town Win]

oath2order said:

Thank you Kayla for considering me important to hear from <3 Yes, I was at work. Quick five and a half hour shift, and while I fixed up the toy department, I kept refreshing the page to read, so I'm kind of caught up.

Alrighty, first off, I want to say how much I would prefer that we don't lynch Fanous, Stargazer, or SirGanatar on day one. While I'm not completely shut off to the idea, I just don't feel comfortable lynching them. For starters, they're new. We don't know anything about them, how they post. Sure, they may come off as suspicious, but that's because we have no idea how they play, and for that matter, I'm sure they're still trying to figure out the best way to play. It's day one. It's hard enough for the rest of us to contribute, and we've done this plenty of times before. It's probably harder for them to know what to say.



Love it Karla. Love it. And Tina, nice job with the first post. Amazing <3

Through my initial readings, one name stuck out to me as a possible pirate. BellBringerGreen.



So first off, BBG goes after FireNinja1. Not surprising. FireNinja is an easy target, considering how he's kind of an annoying player who contributes a lot in the beginning, and very little near the end. This is understandable, and it's not like FireNinja's first two posts actually had much to contribute anyways.



Then BBG goes after SirGanatar for posting some general advice. Okay, another easy target. SirGanatar is new, and he posts some obvious tips. But then BBG also comments some really obvious advice, which I bolded. Really? You're going to go after someone for stating the obvious, while you state the obvious yourself? Nice job.



And now BBG goes after Beary. Okay, so beary's post wasn't the most helpful, but it does help remind us that the pirate are probably some people who haven't posted much. At least that's how I take it. In any case, BBG has gone after a third target at this point.



And then BBG finally goes after Fanous. Another new player, another easy target. There's a pattern here. BBG has really only posted after someone who is either new or kind of inexperienced posts, and it's always something attacking them. While BBG hasn't outright accused them of being a pirate, it's still attacking them. To me, this looks like a lot of panicked finger-pointing and misdirection.

In regards to other people, Waffles asking to start a PM circle in public to me just sounds like a really stupid idea, and FireNinja is just being FireNinja. Trundle seems like a good candidate. Only posted once, as far as I can see, and his behavior definitely has changed, but I think we can stick with him as a day two candidate.

Unless another good person comes up, then I'm very likely going to ##VOTE: BellBringerGreen.

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This is well-collected information. This pattern is not just strange but also very scummy behaviour.

Quote from the IRC:

3:59 PM oath2order: Well, it's either lynch BBG now, or forget about it later on because he doesn't freaking post later in the game
3:59 PM Gandalf: as good as any other at the moment. hes done a good job of misleading town
3:59 PM Gandalf: well thats what he does. he posts all this and then stops after people suspect him
3:59 PM Kayla: True
3:59 PM Gandalf: but seriously, the way he caved in scum chat last game after trundle pmd him
3:59 PM Kuma: Very true
4:00 PM Kayla: I'm willing to vote for anyone since I'm not tied to anyone
4:00 PM Gandalf: going along that kind of road is the best idea, he wont defend himself he will ask scum buddies first
4:00 PM Kuma: Yeah
4:00 PM Kuma: Or anyone that is trustworthy

So BBG, what do you have to say for yourself?

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And Kayla, I personally have no suspicions other than BBG because of his desperate, pointing-fingers-at-newbies behaviour.

I would go after a lurker if I had to choose a category, but right now I think bbg is scum( reasons stated by oath)

Oath brings up some good points. I personally dont know BBG so idk if its normal for him/her to be a little aggressive in the beginning, but i would like to hear a defense. Also how could he/she be mafia if hes/she gonna point a different finger at 4 people? homeboy/girl sounds more like a chicken running around with its head cut off than a mafia member. IMO.

Dolby said:

I personally hadn't noticed that, going after new/less experienced players is suspicious but I would like to hear a reason about this from him. On another note, I made a detective list

Trundle
Tom (sorry but not really wanting to contribute at a certain point raises a small red flag)
ITYW (for publicly trying to start a pm circle, possibly mafia trying to find blues)

To lovely, here's another person who we have're heard from lately, Gandalf

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Kindle auto-correction,
To iloveyou

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That cool. Unless I'm the miller role, I've got no objections to being checked other than it's just a waste. So far I've seen pretty much nothing to go off of and I haven't conversed much with the other players. Been contacted by one and I contacted another. Other than that, just expect my vote for someone and nothing else from me until Day 2 (assuming a I live).

Right now I'm not comfortable with voting anyone.

Superpenguin made some solid points on Trundle before, specifically about his change in game style. Last game he had BellBringerGreen shaking in the scum chat after privately accusing him but really I can only draw conclusions on what I have seen in the thread. In that regard I am not happy to vote for him as there just is too much risk involved this early.

On BellBringergreen, as I said in the IRC, he is a player that usually posts early in the game without any sound direction hence we see fingers pointing all over the place. This happened last game, and coupled with some background activity, he was under the spotlight very early on. The fact that he went quiet very quickly and managed to avoid suspicion by just chirping every now and then with fudged posts means I'm not happy to vote him either. I will be watching how he continues to play from here on out though. That is something that applies to all players and not just him - we don't want mafia to get away just by being quiet like last game.

ITookYourWaffles seems to have a bit of explaining to do. While I wouldn't say posting your skype name in the thread is suspicious, the fact that a lot of people jumped on that leaves me with my eyes on more players than just Waffles. It looked more to me like a convenience move than a scum tactic. Unless there is something else I missed there.

Not ready to make any lists but I also think that lynching a lurker should only be used as a last resort. Unknown players also need a bit of time to get some posts together so I would rule them out for the first lynch. Free game after today though - more than likely that one could be harbouring a red role.

Ok, here goes. Statments in bold.

Superpenguin said:

See how he doesn't have suspicions this early on this game? Every time I come to him about someone, he just tries to brush it off and not get himself involved.

I know people are saying that this is a behavioral change, but Im not ruling out that he has his suspicions and simply didn't want to share them with SP, since conversations with him tend to wind up in the public eye and its a little early for anyone to show their hand.

iLoveYou said:

I'm kinda worried about the unknowns:

05. FanousOnTheLoose
13. Stargazer741
21. SirGanatar

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Thats a valid concern. As Oath stated, we are in a unique position as no one has insight into our playstyles. I appreciate you all being willing to give the new players a day to get situated, but all three of us should be on a potential detective list unless further evidence is presented.

Gandalf said:

On BellBringergreen, as I said in the IRC, he is a player that usually posts early in the game without any sound direction hence we see fingers pointing all over the place.

Seems like a poor strategy as it only serves to distract the town, but I feel that either hes experienced enough to know that and apply it or simply doesnt learn from his past mistakes. Either way, he seems to be drawing quite a bit of attention.


ITookYourWaffles seems to have a bit of explaining to do. While I wouldn't say posting your skype name in the thread is suspicious, the fact that a lot of people jumped on that leaves me with my eyes on more players than just Waffles. It looked more to me like a convenience move than a scum tactic.

I have to agree, here. I know some people are finding it suspicious to try and make contacts so early but honestly it struck me more as being slightly uninterested in stalking the thread but willing to discuss theories, maybe due to a less desirable role.

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beary509 said:

@Waffles
Why are you asking people to PM you so early in the game?

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This is a good question tho, this is the reason why I need to catch up in game but that doesn't mean I'm a mafia. I tried 3 Blue roles straight (From Mafia II, Mini Mafia and Mafia IV) that doesn't mean I'm a mafia this game.

If I was a scum I would have kill you guys when role claiming, role block and kill you obviously. It would be stupid if the mafia did this in pre-game, draw their attention in the game. Will the mafia team do this? well obviously no.

But then again it is your choice whether to pm me or chat me in skype about this. I'm not forcing you guys.

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You may give me warning for this

I think iLoveYou's reason for voting for me is probably to get me talking instead of actually finding me suspicious, just like how I did in Red Revolution. Heh.

iLoveYou said:

What do you guys think of FireNinja1 versus iTookYourWaffles?

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FireNinja1. His playstyle isn't all too different from the past games. I'm too lazy to dig up evidence to support that statement but that's mainly because I don't think he's worthy for being a Day 1 lynch. I'd say he's just really eager to start playing. Many of his posts now are just flimsy accusations on players we have never seen playing. If you ask me, I think he's town trying to be of useful, even though he's just stating the obvious.

ITookYourWaffles. I've been playing with him since Game 2 (excluding Game 3) and she has never claimed to want to be part of PM Circles before. So his desire to be a part of PM circles is new to me. Do I think she's Mafia? It's hard to say. He is kind of a distraction but she's working on it. I'd like to hear more from her first before I mold my thoughts on his alignment and whatnot.
waffles are u a boy or a girl o(-`д?- ｡)

iLoveYou said:

Do you think it's wise to lynch one of the unknown players? Or would you guys feel more comfortable aiming for any lurkers? Or would you guys rather have the Town only target stronger players for Day One lynch? Feel free to make your own lists if you want.

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? Do you think it's wise to lynch one of the unknown players?
Definitely not. It is certainly possible that one of them could be a Pirate but lynching them today may end up like a Beary509 lynch in Game 2. If we do decide to lynch them later in the game, we'd need some hard evidence to support it.

? Or would you guys feel more comfortable aiming for any lurkers?
I am one and I approve. I don't think it's smart to do that. But seeing how lynn105 and Horus turned out scum in Game 3, we should keep an eye on them.

? Would you guys rather have the Town only target stronger players for Day One lynch?

I wouldn't be against Trundle's lynch as he does seem to write things differently, but lynching a strong player in the first day is a super risky thing to do. In the upcoming days if a strong player is still surprisingly alive then you could assume that their either Mafia or being used by one.

? Feel free to make your own lists if you want

I have no suspicions apart from Trundle for now. But I'm keeping an eye on many of the players I named above. I might not participate in voting for today's lynching though, unless I am convinced that so-and-so is Mafia etc.

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I think iLoveYou's prime reason for voting for me is to get me talking instead of actually finding me suspicious, just like in the Red Revolution. Fine :c I'll answer these questions as accurate as I can.

iLoveYou said:

What do you guys think of FireNinja1 versus iTookYourWaffles?

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FireNinja1. His playstyle isn't all too different from the past games. I'm too lazy to dig up evidence to support that statement but that's mainly because I don't think he's worthy for being a Day 1 lynch. I'd say he's just really eager to start playing. Many of his posts now are just flimsy accusations on players we have never seen playing. If you ask me, I think he's town trying to be of useful, even though he's just stating the obvious.

ITookYourWaffles. I've been playing with him since Game 2 (excluding Game 3) and she has never claimed to want to be part of PM Circles before. So his desire to be a part of PM circles is new to me. Do I think she's Mafia? It's hard to say. He is kind of a distraction but she's working on it. I'd like to hear more from her first before I mold my thoughts on his alignment and whatnot.
waffles are u a boy or a girl o(-`д?- ｡)

iLoveYou said:

Do you think it's wise to lynch one of the unknown players? Or would you guys feel more comfortable aiming for any lurkers? Or would you guys rather have the Town only target stronger players for Day One lynch? Feel free to make your own lists if you want.

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? Do you think it's wise to lynch one of the unknown players?
Definitely not. It is certainly possible that one of them could be a Pirate but lynching them today may end up like a Beary509 lynch in Game 2. If we do decide to lynch them later in the game, we'd need some hard evidence to support it.

? Or would you guys feel more comfortable aiming for any lurkers?
I am one and I approve. I don't think it's smart to do that. But seeing how lynn105 and Horus turned out scum in Game 3, we should keep an eye on them.

? Would you guys rather have the Town only target stronger players for Day One lynch?

I wouldn't be against Trundle's lynch as he does seem to write things differently, but lynching a strong player in the first day is a super-duper risky thing to do! In the upcoming days if a strong player is still surprisingly alive then you could assume that their Mafia or being used by one.

? Feel free to make your own lists if you want

I have no suspicions apart from Trundle for now. But I'm keeping an eye on many of the players I named above.

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oops sorry about that double post [:

Voted for Trundle because of my suspicions, and I don't feel anything else will arise from him anyway from the Night Actions to change his fate Day 2.

This seems like normal behaviour for BBG, to me. He goes around accusing randomly early on, and then he starts to slip away from discussion as the game goes on. It's Day one, so making several accusations is understandable and not really a cause of suspicion for me. It's wise to be questioning everyone on Day one, like BBG is doing. That doesn't nevessarily mean he's accusing all of those people, though.

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Farobi said:

ITookYourWaffles. I've been playing with him since Game 2 (excluding Game 3) and she has never claimed to want to be part of PM Circles before. So his desire to be a part of PM circles is new to me. Do I think she's Mafia? It's hard to say. He is kind of a distraction but she's working on it. I'd like to hear more from her first before I mold my thoughts on his alignment and whatnot.

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I thought you guys have exchanged roles when it comes to mafia games? Doesn't that sort of express a desire to start up a PM circle?

Superpenguin said:

I thought you guys have exchanged roles when it comes to mafia games? Doesn't that sort of express a desire to start up a PM circle?

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We do, but we never really made attempts to expand our circle. It's usually only both of us unless someone makes a move to join in, but even then I find it necessary to be secretive in *some* things. I outed to Waffles that I was the Detective in Day 4 last game for instance, as I had suspicions on her early on. But with my role now I don't think it's a problem if I out it.

Dolby said:

Also a request to Tina, could you please install a timer?

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A timer has been added to the first post.

oath2order said:

And Tina, nice job with the first post. Amazing <3

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Thank you! <3


You've just over nine and a half hours to decide which of you will be walking the plank. I'd also like to clarify that a majority vote is only required to end day early. If time runs out before a majority is reached then the person with the most votes will die.

Superpenguin said:

Okay, it's time I make a case against Trundle, as we have been talking via IRC recently. Going off of what Kayla said as looking at the stronger players, Trundle has yet to be mafia. Since Trundle hasn't been mafia yet, it is easy to detect behavioral changes in him.

I want to clear some things up before I start.

I am not full-on accusing Trundle of being mafia; I do want him to be more vocal in this thread though, as he is not very vocal publicly when it comes to mafia games. Also, I know some fears during Day 1 is lynching a strong player who ends up being Town. Well, I only fear Trundle is blue, but that runs the risk with everyone so we have to take that risk with anyone. Plus, as seen last game, Trundle is a loose-cannon. He had suspicions on BBG and he went telling everyone on IRC. That's careless behavior, imo, and roles/important info can be slipped to the mafia this way. We don't need this happening.

So, like I said earlier, behavioral changes:



See how he doesn't have suspicions this early on this game? Every time I come to him about someone, he just tries to brush it off and not get himself involved.
Also, look at the bold regarding Waffles. When I brought her name up, he called her a "Bad Town Player" which makes me believe he knows Waffles is town which he can only know if he is mafia.

Now notice in previous games, Trundle has no problem voicing his early suspicions:

Spoiler: Game 3

http://www.belltreeforums.com/showt...-OVER-HURRAY&p=2059992&viewfull=1#post2059992

In addition to that public suspicion post, Trundle also announced working privately discussing suspicions, most likely NOT brushing them off.

Spoiler: Game 2

Unfortunately, Trundle was not able to discuss with everyone his thoughts for the Game 2 Day 1 lynch. However, he did voice his thoughts about the mayoral candidates. He was so suspicious of everyone running that he chose to vote for himself!

And then I think we are all aware that Trundle had large suspicions against BBG and Tom early on last game. Suspicions on BBG to the point where he was telling EVERYONE about it, obviously being very vocal.

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Alrighty, so I do understand where you are coming from, and I know I don't have very much attention on me anyways, but I still want to respond to this.
First off, I have not yet been accused like this in a mafia game before, so I'll do my best.

The difference between this game and the last two games significantly changes everything. In Game 3, we had already done the mayor voting, so people had already posted and accused a lot more. So far in this game, almost no one has been accusing (as of the time I was talking to you in the IRC). Also, I was the mayor in game 3. I was forced to push out a suspicion post by Justin, which I immediately scrapped because it was terrible. I didn't go off of any of the minor suspicions I had when I chose my lynch; I went after Foxwolf for just being a bad mafia player who was hindering the town.
In Game 2, well, that was my first game. I was suspicious of everyone so I didn't want to vote for Kayla or Jubs (WHO BOTH ENDED UP BEING SCUM). I had never played a game of mafia before, other than a few games of IRC mafia, which is greatly different. I had no one to trust, and nothing to go off of.
Last game, I was a mason. After I realized that BBG was most likely mafia, I needed to tell multiple people so they could get him killed. As a mason, I was obviously going to die that night from what I PMed to him and his lack of replying. Therefore, I just blabbed it to 3 people (who were all town, by the way), and when I found out about Tom joining the circle, I told them to be careful of him. Obviously, they really weren't careful of him.
The biggest difference between this game and the last few games was that we were more than 3 hours in the game already. At 3 hours in the game and only a few pages of posts between two newbie players, what do you expect me to do?

I would like to say that I was only questioning/replying to them. I was not accusing them at all, or even had that in mind. I didn't mean to look so desperate.

I ask that you do not lynch me because you will end up lynching a Sailor in the end.

Superpenguin said:

Voted for Trundle because of my suspicions, and I don't feel anything else will arise from him anyway from the Night Actions to change his fate Day 2.

This seems like normal behaviour for BBG, to me. He goes around accusing randomly early on, and then he starts to slip away from discussion as the game goes on. It's Day one, so making several accusations is understandable and not really a cause of suspicion for me. It's wise to be questioning everyone on Day one, like BBG is doing. That doesn't nevessarily mean he's accusing all of those people, though.

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I would seriously like to bring this up and see what others think because no one has acknowledged it yet. And again, feel free to lose a day's work on a Sailor. All I have is my voice and opinion.

ITookYourWaffles said:

Can you extend 1 hour? if it's okay with you, well you see I haven't decide who to vote because I'm not comfortable to vote BBG or Trundle in my time day one will end 6 AM (GMT 8+) and yes I need time.

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Day 1 will now end at 12AM GMT / 7PM EST.

What I find interesting is the way Kuma has started the ball rolling on BellBringerGreen.

This wouldn't have meant too much to me had it not been for the fact that I was defending BellBringerGreen's strategy in the IRC. She used that as evidence against him and made the vote. I cant help but think that she was looking for more reason to throw in a name and missed this fact. Besides this there hasn't really been too much on her part in the way of suspicions besides agreeing with players and jumping up with others actions.

The only thing that stops me wanting to vote is why a mafiosa would try to start a lynch when all of town is still bickering. We need to band together and make the majority lynch. At the moment I am looking at Kuma.

Gandalf and iloveyou, I am not full-on accusing you but I want the town to look at the similarities. Think back to game two, day one, iloveyou the sheriff makes a list of lurkers with a roleblocker who has been lurking absent from there. The roleblocker then swoops in and posts. Maybe your both mafia this game or it was a mistake on iloveyou's part? I don't know but I want the town to keep them in mind for the day two or day three lynch.

BellBringerGreen said:

I would like to say that I was only questioning/replying to them. I was not accusing them at all, or even had that in mind. I didn't mean to look so desperate.

I ask that you do not lynch me because you will end up lynching a Sailor in the end.



I would seriously like to bring this up and see what others think because no one has acknowledged it yet. And again, feel free to lose a day's work on a Sailor. All I have is my voice and opinion.

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Just so you know, this is the exact same excuse you used over and over last game when people were suspicious of you.

Farobi said:

I think iLoveYou's reason for voting for me is probably to get me talking instead of actually finding me suspicious, just like how I did in Red Revolution. Heh.

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Yeah, I don't find you suspicious this early in the game but I wanted people to talk.

If we want to go lurker / not active I'd suggest these names: Hikari or River.

Otherwise it looks like today is going to be BellBringerGreen versus Trundle. I wouldn't know necessarily who to vote for this early on. BellBringerGreen is more of a safe option in my opinion. If we want to make a bold move then we'd vote for Trundle.

Gandalf said:

What I find interesting is the way Kuma has started the ball rolling on BellBringerGreen.

This wouldn't have meant too much to me had it not been for the fact that I was defending BellBringerGreen's strategy in the IRC. She used that as evidence against him and made the vote. I cant help but think that she was looking for more reason to throw in a name and missed this fact. Besides this there hasn't really been too much on her part in the way of suspicions besides agreeing with players and jumping up with others actions.

The only thing that stops me wanting to vote is why a mafiosa would try to start a lynch when all of town is still bickering. We need to band together and make the majority lynch. At the moment I am looking at Kuma.

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This is exactly what is stopping me from voting for BellBringerGreen at the moment. I would still be willing to vote for a safer lynch though. Our only other option is Trundle, unless everyone is actually okay with starting a Kuma lynch. At this point I feel like BellBringerGreen might actually be more Town aligned than Mafia aligned.

Dolby said:

Gandalf and iloveyou, I am not full-on accusing you but I want the town to look at the similarities. Think back to game two, day one, iloveyou the sheriff makes a list of lurkers with a roleblocker who has been lurking absent from there. The roleblocker then swoops in and posts. Maybe your both mafia this game or it was a mistake on iloveyou's part? I don't know but I want the town to keep them in mind for the day two or day three lynch.

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This is a legit concern & I don't mind. I am very willing to die. I would just ask that you guys let the Mafia try to take me out instead of having me (Town) die under Town's hands.

BellBringerGreen said:

I would like to say that I was only questioning/replying to them. I was not accusing them at all, or even had that in mind. I didn't mean to look so desperate.
I ask that you do not lynch me because you will end up lynching a Sailor in the end.
I would seriously like to bring this up and see what others think because no one has acknowledged it yet. And again, feel free to lose a day's work on a Sailor. All I have is my voice and opinion.

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What a reason, now give us the reason why we won't lynch you. I think you are innocent and please explain what Oath and Kuma post about you