Mafia 1984 Mafia: TOWN WINS!

EnderWiggin said:
Ho boy. See there's a HUGE difference between essays on one subject and PMing everyone. Essays spouting guilt/innocence is a very focused group. It's like an essay for an educational institute of your choice. It's a very focused piece of work. You know the subject and the end goal. You just have to amass evidence for it.

PMing everyone is more like sending out professional letters to various people as a secretary of some sort. You're trying to open dialogue on a specific subject, but at the same time you cannot just create a copy/paste message, because that then feels impersonal.

So it's not writing one PM. It's writing one PM for everyone in the game.

I hope that clarifies why writing up the PMs is more work than writing up a case one someone. :D

Also writing up Essays on someone when you're sure their guilty has a drive and goal. I find it a lot easier to motivate myself when I have a goal. PMing everyone is information gathering without really any specific goal. :D
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So.... shortly after this post i wrote Ender a PM with the title "NOT A CARBON COPY MESSAGE"... asking him how well and how he knows Endless.... he replied

"Well, I have been seeing him fairly regularly in real life for... almost all OF my whole life. =P So fairly well. I like your PM title btw. <3"

I then asked if they were related and he agreed.... after that i never heard from him now you would think since i already initiated a messaging stream that he would take advantage of that to get some good reads on me but he never did. im thinking because he has an "unmotivated" approach to the whole matter he might actually hiding out.
 
Panda1376 said:
So.... shortly after this post i wrote Ender a PM with the title "NOT A CARBON COPY MESSAGE"... asking him how well and how he knows Endless.... he replied

"Well, I have been seeing him fairly regularly in real life for... almost all OF my whole life. =P So fairly well. I like your PM title btw. <3"

I then asked if they were related and he agreed.... after that i never heard from him now you would think since i already initiated a messaging stream that he would take advantage of that to get some good reads on me but he never did. im thinking because he has an "unmotivated" approach to the whole matter he might actually hiding out.
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True, but at the same time you never asked him for his reads either. Doesn't that make you a hypocrite?
 
no im the one who initiated the conversation and at the time i really had no idea how this game works as its my first time ever trying to play or even hearing about it... you would think with him being an experienced mafia player he would have taken advantage of the messaging and also since he's not in the forum for any other reason other than mafia he wouldn't have other messages to reply to such has selling trading or cycling things/villagers for AC.
 
Hmm, alright. I'm not entirely on board with that particular point, but I really want to hear Ender's reply to this, so I'm going to keep my mouth shut for now and see what he has to say, and offer my thoughts up on this later.
 
This is bigger than I expected. Going to answer questions then finish it up because I might not have it done before night end at this rate. OTL
 
SarasaKat said:
Wait, you think someone saying another person was a Town PR is nothing much to think about?!

I saw Bloobloop in the thread earlier, actually, but they didn't say anything. Do you think they were simply busy and trying to catch up, or does that change your mind?

As a side note, and this goes to everyone, using gut feelings and hunches as the reason you indict/clear someone is a place to start, but it is by no means the end all/be all. In order to be taken seriously in mafia, you need to find evidence to support your claims. I know I sound like a broken record when I keep asking you guys for evidence, but it's crucial that it's there. Otherwise, all your opinion is is that - an opinion. Not an argument/statement. It even looks suspicious when you base a suspicion based of purely a hutch, as it shows an unwillingness to go back and back up your claims and you're expecting people to just follow your train of thought. I get most of you guys are new, which is why I haven't been using that as a point against you guys. But it can and will be used against you in future games, and it's better to start using evidence later than never.

Now that being said, it's good to have opinions. We want to hear them! Even hutches! However, in order to understand them/see if your opinion has any merit, you need to have evidence that the rest of us can analyze. And if you're stating a hutch, then A. try to find what makes you feel that way/quote it. Explain it if you can. And if you can't, then B. Don't make a big deal out of it. State it, say that it's merely a hutch that you tried and can't explain, and move on. And keep trying to find evidence for it as time goes on.

I've really got to take a closer look at the whole Ender situation. I mean I think he's very likely mafia due to host bias (I'd be shocked if neither LaBelle nor Ender was mafia), but nothing struck me post wise at a glance. I'm gonna go take a deeper look at him.
Click to expand...

Its a lot to be able to read all of this stuff and interpret it and formulate opinions so i wouldn't be surprised if blobloop just couldn't read it all in one try.

I haven't had the time this weekend to be able to sit down and really think about everything i've been reading so sorry for my lack of evidence.

I would think however that new players would most likely not be mafia due to them not knowing a lot and would be alot easier for them if they weren't mafia and had to go to more complicated stuff. So bloobloop and slammint are okay to me as of now.
 
SarasaKat said:
As of now, there's nothing that's seriously raising any red flags in my book, only two very minor ones:

1) The whole "lack of motivation" thing. It doesn't sound good to say you lack motivation to do something that promotes flow of information, but I get the reason.
2) Voting Slammint without stating in thread why he voted him (he does eventually, though).

Again, pretty damn minor stuff. I'm not entirely done reading, but he looks pretty much ok as of now.

I'm kind of curious about this still though:
Why were you so convinced that Slammint was mafia, Ender?

- - - Post Merge - - -

This is in reference to Ender.

- - - Post Merge - - -

Wait, hold up, did he ever explicitly state why? Lemme check. I was saying that part from memory
Click to expand...

I've already addressed why 1. is present. Not going to repeat myself.

Slammint pulled a VERY traditional new mafia move. "Lol I'm confused, I'm going to random vote" and then voting on a bandwagon? Nine times out of ten that's mafia. That's literally all the explanation I can give for my original jump on Slammint, and that's why Endless jumped on her too. We've both seen it too many times.

Panda1376 said:
Ender can you please explain how the conversation, if there was any went between you and Endless to come to the conculsion to vote for the same person ? was it you or he that made the initial decision and who followed and how willingly ? and with what evidence to single out Slammint ?
Click to expand...

We didn't even talk about it before both voting it. As I said above, it's a new mafia move which, while not 100% a mafia tell, was pretty damning. Also, D1 had provided nothing better to work off of.

SarasaKat said:
Ok.
So this is the reason, right? This poses the question: do you still believe that Slammint is scum because of this? Do you think there's additional reasons now that he is scum?

But then this happens:
So a case for his innocence made sense. So this poses some more questions:

A. What was this theory of Endless's?
B. It made sense to you. Did it convince you?
~a. If so, then why did you keep your vote on him? Did he do something else?
~b. If not, why not?

Oh my god I can't believe I didn't give this post a second look sooner.
http://www.belltreeforums.com/showt...ia-Night-One&p=5611216&viewfull=1#post5611216, for reference.
Click to expand...

I do think Slammint scum is still one of the more likely possibilities. Not as convinced of it now.

What was the theory of Endless? He decided that scum!Slammint wouldn't have taken so long to read the rules, and he felt Slammint's lack of knowledge as to what was the bad team was pretty indicative of a townslip.

It did not convince me. He managed to make me see how it was possible, but at the time I still disagreed with it. As I said, it made sense to me. That didn't mean I agreed with it. And I quote: "Then Endless suddenly says that he's no longer townreading Slammint, after I've said clearly that I didn't understand how he did." To clarify the ending statement, I didn't understand how his case for how Slammint MIGHT be town made Endless townread Slammint so hard suddenly.

Panda1376 said:
So.... shortly after this post i wrote Ender a PM with the title "NOT A CARBON COPY MESSAGE"... asking him how well and how he knows Endless.... he replied

"Well, I have been seeing him fairly regularly in real life for... almost all OF my whole life. =P So fairly well. I like your PM title btw. <3"

I then asked if they were related and he agreed.... after that i never heard from him now you would think since i already initiated a messaging stream that he would take advantage of that to get some good reads on me but he never did. im thinking because he has an "unmotivated" approach to the whole matter he might actually hiding out.
Click to expand...

I got a read from you. Didn't need to pursue it any further since I got what I wanted.
 
@Daniel Hey, it's alright, no need to beat yourself up over it. There were several people making that same mistake, actually. I just felt that it was a good time to make that blanket statement so we're all on the same page :)

Also
Wait, you think someone saying another person was a Town PR is nothing much to think about?!
Click to expand...
I was mistaken when I wrote this - Endless wasn't saying that Rune was a Town PR. Endless (a confirmed town) DID have reason to basically confirm Rune as a townie though - Rune made a mistake about the number of mafia who're normally present in a game like this, and that kind of mistake isn't one a mafian would make. So that's why most of us are reading him at pretty much a 1 or 0. I was curious why you didn't think that that didn't put him as a townie (and as a person you were unsure about, instead).

- - - Post Merge - - -

It did not convince me. He managed to make me see how it was possible, but at the time I still disagreed with it. As I said, it made sense to me. That didn't mean I agreed with it. And I quote: "Then Endless suddenly says that he's no longer townreading Slammint, after I've said clearly that I didn't understand how he did." To clarify the ending statement, I didn't understand how his case for how Slammint MIGHT be town made Endless townread Slammint so hard suddenly.
Click to expand...
So you're saying that while you saw his point, you saw it only as a possibility, but thought that scum!Slammint would make much more sense? Alright.

My main reasoning at the time as to why I didn't think Slammint was as scummy as you and Endless thought was because I saw what she did as a bandwagon due to him thinking that others knew what to do better than what she knew. Did you consider that, and if so, why did you disregard that possibility?

I do think Slammint scum is still one of the more likely possibilities. Not as convinced of it now.
Click to expand...
Why aren't you as convinced? You can save this as a part of your reads if you want.

Also, you missed a question:
SarasaKat said:
Oh, yeah. Anyone can answer this if they wish, but aiming this at Labelle and Ender in particular:

What're your thoughts on Trojan?
Click to expand...
I'm guessing you're going to answer this in reads, though :p

- - - Post Merge - - -

Edit: "So you're saying that while you saw his point, you saw it only as a possibility, but thought that scum!Slammint would make much more sense? Alright.

My main reasoning at the time as to why I didn't think Slammint was as scummy as you and Endless thought was because I saw what she did as a bandwagon due to her thinking that others knew what to do better than what she knew. Did you consider that, and if so, why did you disregard that possibility?"

Jesus christ I'm all over the place

- - - Post Merge - - -

**** I just realized I missed two school assignments that were due at weird times today because I was refreshing this game once every 5 minutes.

(SIIIIGHS)
 
Erp. Sorry about your assignments.

@Slammint thing:
Generally when a town is following others because they think they know better they will say it instead of being "Lol randomvote"

Other questions will be parts of reads.
 
Night actions can no longer be sent in. Day two will begin in 30 minutes
 
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In case I die tonight:
I?m just going to say before I go out that it?s pertinent that Trojan gets lynched. HIs PM to Rune was way too scummy to overlook, in addition to his other scummy actions (http://www.belltreeforums.com/showt...ia-Night-One&p=5614183&viewfull=1#post5614183). Additionally, we need to look more into Labelle/Ender. I?m leaning towards Ender. However, I noticed Labelle asked seemingly out of the blue about if Ender or Endless knew Trojan, which seemed kind of out of place. So both of them have potential.

Now to try to make things clearer as to why I limited things down the way I did, I?ve developed a small theory. I?m going to call it the ?Two Group Theory? as of now.

Group 1:
SarasaKat
EnderWiggin
LaBelleFleur
Endless
Runeraider

Group 2:
Call Me Daniel
Slammint
BlooBloop
Trojan
Panda1376

These groups are sorted by forum mafia experience. Those in Group 1 have some. Those in Group 2 do not. Now, for the sake of power balance, one from each group would logically find its way into the mafia. Those crossed out are dead as of now.

I think we all agree Trojan is guilty as ****, yeah? If my theory is indeed true, this clears everyone else in Group 2 of being mafia (if there?s a neutral, they could still be this).

Out of the people in group one, Rune is confirmed (unless 3 mafia exist, then he?s mafia confirmed). This leaves Ender, LaBelle, and me. If I die right now, this leaves Ender or LaBelle. This is why I limited it down to the two of them. Make sure those two keep getting looked into.

If there are two kills tonight, don?t auto assume both are due to mafia. We could have an evil neutral in this game, then in which case, everyone is once again up for grabs of being that EN. Those guys are hard to find, so keep your eye sharp. My bet is that the EN comes from Group 1, but I?m not entirely sure on that one. It still stands that one person from each group is pretty much guaranteed to be mafia, though.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a different thought, for those of you with night actions (especially investigative), be wary of your night results. Framers are roles that are out there, so if you?re a cop, you could find a mafian innocent or a townie as suspicious. Also, there?s a role called ?Miller? that could be in this game. If it is, be careful - they?re townies, but will come back as suspicious to whomever you check. If you don?t think your target was likely tampered with however, then it should be a pretty good indicator of their actual alignment.

IF YOUR NIGHT ACTIONS REVEALS A ROLE, DO NOT OUT IT UNLESS IT?S PERTINENT! What I mean by this is that if you?re a Cop and got an innocent reading on someone, don?t say anything about it. Try to find logic behind why they could be innocent and make sure you read them as innocent, but don?t outright state that they are unless that person is about to get lynched. Your role not being known by the mafia is very important. Another example is if you?re a Doc and you heal someone successfully, DON?T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THAT. They will come forth and tell town. Telling town for them just outs yourself for no reason, and you?re the only safety net that we have.

However, if an action was done to you, feel free to say so. For example, if you were attacked, you should say something. If you were roleblocked, you should say something.

Another instance where you should say something is if your information is game-changing. Say you found a mafian. Say something! Taking down the mafia is our ultimate objective here. If you blocked someone and there was no kill that night, you should say something as well. If you?re cop and you know someone who?s about to get lynched is innocent, say something.

So to recap that last section:
-Cops, take your results with a grain of salt
-Only reveal what happened at night if something was done to you (you didn?t make it happen) or if what you know is game changing.
-Otherwise, do not reveal what you did at night.
-I'd say Veterans are exceptions. If you're a Veteran and get attacked in the night, you should let us know you were attacked.

Feel free to C+C on this. Ask questions, make changes, ect.

I want to be very clear though: TROJAN IS PRACTICALLY CONFIRMED MAFIA THOUGH. IF YOU DON?T DO ANYTHING ELSE, LYNCH HIM! If you don?t, there better be some good reason (like a miracle and he somehow gets confirmed).
 
Day post will be 15 minutes late

- - - Post Merge - - -

Day Two​

As Parsons left his cubicle, he lamented over the erroneous death of his friend Syme. Syme was one of his good friends, but he viewed him as a bit too rebellious and not loyal enough to the party. He just felt that he didn't love Big Brother like he did and the security forces that had arrived convinced him of this.

On the intercom, it was announced that the hate speech would begin. Parsons rushed to attend, not wanting to miss it. He didn't want to disobey Big Brother and the party, glory to them.

The speaker shouted about the villainy of the Eastasian soldiers and the glory of the party. The crowd got riled up.

Parsons just didn't react fast enough, as the stampede started to tear down the propaganda posters of the Eastasian soldiers, he was stabbed in the back. Parsons body lay bleeding green on the ground.

Slammint looked around quickly. Thinking that nobody had noticed her, she reached back down to grab the knife from the body, thinking that she hadn't been noticed. As she picked up the knife, avoiding following the stampede, a bullet went through her brain, her suspicious behaviour had been noticed after all.

The shooter walked up to both the bodies. Seeing that the red blood flowing out of her body, he felt satisfied. She didn't love big brother and she deserved to die.

Runeraider's role

Parsons(townie)
You are a loyal worker at minitruth. You truly believe party doctrine and love Big Brother. You have no special abilities

Slammint's role

Revolutionist
You are a revolutionist loyal to Emmanuel Goldstein. You detest Big Brother and the party and seek to over throw them by inciting a rebellion among the proles.

Mafia chat


Sorry for inconsistent times, Ap Bio sucks and I also have some family stuff
 
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We should have a couple of mislynches if there isn't a SK in this setup, but I'm pretty sure there is. I'm probably going to die tonight since many believe me to be confirmed town. I just want to say, in case I'm tailored or something, that I'm green.

k bye

- - - Post Merge - - -

LOL CALLED IT
 
I basically have my ISOs and all ready now, but I may as well hold on for daystart, since it may change my reads.

@Sarasa: How is Trojan confirmed mafia? I can see multiple reasons why they could be Vigilante/Serial Killer.

I mean, my reads had Trojan down as one of the higher chances for being mafia, but how are they confirmed?
 
Woah WHAT

Welp sorry for being an idiot there. I still disn't see Slammint as a massive mafian, but I trust Ender a **** ton more.

- - - Post Merge - - -

@ Ender I felt that him asking how to send in the maf kill was pretty damning in terms of him being maf. Why else would he ask that?
 
Really going to have to change my ISO's a bit now. Guess I can skip Rune and Slammint now. XD

Also, I don't think Trojan is mafia. SK/Vig.

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More I think about it, more I'm sure Trojan is just Vig actually. Like, he could be a newb SK, or an SK that thought Slammint was town, but I feel like he was following Endless' reads a lot, and therefore if he was actually SK he would've avoided killing someone he thought could be scum on N1? I don't know if how I play SK is the usual way though.
 
Oh actually. Wait. I'm not discarding my Slammint ISO. This is suddenly a gold mine of information.

- - - Post Merge - - -

Being dragged off for family thing, ISO's will be up in the next 12 hours when I get back to the computer.
 
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