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Mafia Super Smash Brothers: Mafia! - Volume 2 - Mafia Win

Have a little bit of time now, going to use it to construct my reads post. And by "I have some time", I mean "It's presently 1:30 am and I'm sacrificing my sleep on an altar to the mafia gods".

Before I go to work on that, I feel like I should address my proposed slip, because in a way it was a slip - a freudian slip. I was thinking about Dolby when I was mentally going through the possibility of someone framing Zendel, so I accidentally put "he" down instead of "they".
This scenario amusingly plays into the arc of the game so far where Dolby and I present horrific pushes against each other, and this falls into this catagory once again. In the scenario where I am mafia, either a) I framed Zendel and then brought it up myself. This would be wildly sloppy play and would defeat it's own purpose - a frame is only effective if the accusatory party isn't mafia. I could explain this in more depth, but the basic premise is that if you pull something then suggest it yourself, people will examine if that's something that you'd pull, and 90% of cases the answer comes up as "yes". Therefore it's only sensible in a situation involving a frame to wait for someone else to bring it up.
Or b) I was not active enough to co-ordinate the kills then thought the coincidental lining up of the two that died could implicate Zendel. While this one makes more sense from a logical perspective, it also has an overwhelming flaw - there would be no "he" in the person that did the frame, because in this scenario the person would be a non-existent entity.
 
Really Dolby? Please don't put words into my mouth, thank you.

The only reason your calling my read on Abe "weird" is because you were heavily involved in that scum read. Let's be honest here, lol. You'll swoop in whenever there is a change of getting rid of me. :blush: I'm staying put honety, lol.

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Very opportunistic.

I roughly quote "Hence why I'm null on him, cause when I have a hypothetical read I'm usually wrong"

@Endless, how do you feel about me and Cleb
 
I roughly quote "Hence why I'm null on him, cause when I have a hypothetical read I'm usually wrong"

@Endless, how do you feel about me and Cleb

I mean I made a hypothetical read on Heyden in your game and I was completely wrong, so yeah. I also sus Endless because I feel as though there is a difference in behaviour and the lack of research in his posts is very weird (he also seems opportunistic) in this game, so nope, I'm not afraid of scum reading him especially when there is more than enough reason outside the hypothetical post I made against him. It's like that with you as well, I have a theory about you but it could be wrong however the theory is influenced by my observations about your play so far. You seem different over all and that wouldn't change if my theory is indeed wrong. :)

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So I applied that with your interactions with Endless because you both seem really scummy.

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Posting a reads list soon.
 
You really were afraid to scumread him back in your large reads post. And since you brought it up, what's your theory (I'm assuming it's a scumteam theory)? Actually like your merge for the reason that it's clear and non-fluffed
 
You really were afraid to scumread him back in your large reads post. And since you brought it up, what's your theory (I'm assuming it's a scumteam theory)? Actually like your merge for the reason that it's clear and non-fluffed

Highlighted part = yep.

I explained this in my read on Endless, as I said you are the link to why I scum read for that reason so that is why you were frequently mentioned. (I already told you that.)

Dolby, if I was really afraid of scum reading Endless I would never have made the post in the first place, why would I be afraid of scum reading him by the way? I'm not completely clear on why you would think that.

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Just fyi everyone.

I don't know what "fluff" means in mafia, is it basically saying "you reads suck and have nothing to them"?
 
Highlighted part = yep.

I explained this in my read on Endless, as I said you are the link to why I scum read for that reason so that is why you were frequently mentioned. (I already told you that.)

Dolby, if I was really afraid of scum reading Endless I would never have made the post in the first place, why would I be afraid of scum reading him by the way? I'm not completely clear on why you would think that.

Because
1. The two of you are linked as scum teammates, you saw that he would go down eventually but was motivated to keep him alive for some reason (probably KP in this scenario) but you also wanted the towncred or
2. Endless is town and you're scum, but you're afraid that he'll go up and call you out or
3. You're town and the entire premise of him being scum relies on me being scum (which makes no sense to me. I've provided pretty clear evidence against him and at most you've mentioned it in passing)

I see few worlds in which scenario 2 is feasible. 1>3>2 in my mind
 
Because
1. The two of you are linked as scum teammates, you saw that he would go down eventually but was motivated to keep him alive for some reason (probably KP in this scenario) but you also wanted the towncred or
2. Endless is town and you're scum, but you're afraid that he'll go up and call you out or
3. You're town and the entire premise of him being scum relies on me being scum (which makes no sense to me. I've provided pretty clear evidence against him and at most you've mentioned it in passing)

I see few worlds in which scenario 2 is feasible. 1>3>2 in my mind

1. Are you talking about my vote on you rather than him? I think I made it clear that you are the link to him and I want you dead first, your my strongest scum lean so it's only natural that I would place a vote on you over him.

2. If I was scum and Endless was town, he would be dead if I was afraid of him.

3. I don't underestimate your ability in mafia, so if you make a case about him I will probably still scum lean you still. It's a flaw in itself, I admit but I really just do not trust you, ever, lmfao.

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"So if you make a good case on him....."
 
Ftr, I have made 2 cases against Endless

I'm aware, sorry if my third came off as if I didn't know.

It doesn't lessen my suspicions of you, people will go to great lengths to distance themselves from their scum mates and like I said, I don't underestimate you and I think you would go to those lengths. I mean, you are held to a high standard and your reputation is notable on here for a reason.

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"Sorry if my third point came off...."

God!
 
Kat & Endless do have anything to add here or are you just going to stalk the thread? :rolleyes:
Reading up/talking to my dad who just left for another week of training

Can you clarify why you scumread dolby? Is it the bowie thing D1 still, or is there more now?
 
I think I'm up to date with everything that's happened now. I'm still suspicious of Dolby, and the only reason I switched my vote last time was because it would've been a waste when Kirby was getting the higher count, so unless I become suspicious of someone else, I'll probably vote Dolby again.

I'll be lurking.
 
Reading up/talking to my dad who just left for another week of training

Can you clarify why you scumread dolby? Is it the bowie thing D1 still, or is there more now?

My thoughts have stayed the same, read my read (lol) on Dolby, Endless and Bowie.


He seems to be opportunistic after his post on me and even if my theories fall flat I can see the differences between this game and his other games. He was pushier and his tone was different, also he's made more jokey posts in this game (matches up with his scum meta as I don't remember him joking much in his town games), there's more and I'm a little shocked that none of the four other "god fathers" have picked up on it or anyone else.

- - - Post Merge - - -

The quote is a link, click on the arrows beside my name. :)
 
Heyden said:
Quite disoriented on my read bc I think the first half of day 1 Crys proved to be town than my initial thought with her jab at Dolby I think, but I sorta doubted myself in the last few hours. The thing that I found really weird was how defensive she was in regards to Zendel?s post, like I can see where she?s coming from bc it really was just a lot of fluff and repetition, but that much defensiveness is something I haven?t seen in Crys in a while (ever?), it just seemed really out of character and put me off.
Also to mention, her really unconventional vote and thought process that she concluded on and ended up placing one on Karen. From what I got, she thought Kirby was town and didn?t want him lynched and had Jacob/Karen/Zendel/Mog as scumreads. At the time of posting her reads and voting on Karen, both Kirby and Jacob had 2 votes each. I don?t understand why you voted Karen over a scumread that would be lynched over a townread, did you really have faith in the Karen wagon catching traction over the other two
honestly I think you have a valid reason for sussing me. Tbh I don't know why I was really defensive with Zendel, I just didn't like that post he made. The voting part is a bit true. I just felt more comfortable having Karen lynched because I didn't think there was enough against him to fully ease the doubts that he could have been town if that makes sense. As for Zendel I think I wanted to see what more he could contribute because he does do that sometimes. I also think I subconsciously avoided Zendel because I didn't want to seem eager to lynch him and thus, scummy. I didn't want that past arguement to comeback especially as I was so defenseive about it on Day 1.




I guess I don't wanna lynch Kat anymore her posts of Day 2 are making me feel more confident in the idea that she's town.

Karen I think she's still a little suspicious, I think I can explain why later, but she seems like she's actively contributing so I will lay off.

I don't know how today will go for me in terms of activity I'll try to participate the most I can.

Today's lunch should be between zendel or endless, but anything can change!
 
This post is colour coded from town -> mafia, in a code format that follows: [->->->->->]

Bowie - Show me a single instance of a single mafia ever exclaiming at the flavour of their role. You won't be able to, because this sort of comment is impossible to back up as mafia, and consequently only ever comes from town. I've got him as lock town and so should you.

AmazonEvan - Interesting fact. Directly after posting my much discussed "town crack" post, I spent a good amount of time not touching the thread, due to being busy irl. In this time, I started having paranoid thoughts about whether or not what he'd done was actually a towncrack. I weighed and considered the possibility of him behaving like that as defensive mafia, and became quite unsure of myself. In this period of reflection, I'm ashamed to admit one of the key driving thoughts was that I had spent little enough time playing mafia recently that I was worried that I didn't know how to interpret posts anymore.
Needless to say when I returned to the thread and I saw literally everyone else locktowning him because of that post, I felt relieved and invigorated that maybe I'm not a retired mafia gramps.
Since then plenty of his comments screamed town, especially his ones regarding night kill amounts and night kill targets, and I'd be nothing short of floored if he flipped mafia at this point.

KermitTea/Karen - Last post going full conspiracy theory laying out every single possible scenario and expounding on her thoughts given each scenario, how likely it was to be, and what it would imply if it was just reeked town to me. I could clearly understand her thought process through the post and really doubt she'd go that far as mafia - it's just not something people townread. the motivation behind that was trying to organise her thoughts, not attempting to appear like she's producing content.
This is definitely not an intuitive read, but I'll stick by it.

Zendel - Kinda embarrassed by my post regarding him being framed, because a) as Kat pointed out, as Kat pointed out, Jacob wasn't scumreading him at the end of the day (something I'd missed from lack of time), and b) Zendel was absolutely confused as to what I even meant.
The reason I have him as light town is partly because of the post hyperlinked in the sentence prior - he demonstrates town confusion and earnest behaviour. This is by no means a strong read, but it's definitely a town read.

Heyden - This is kind of a weak read, and I originally put him as null, but I moved him off after thinking about it for a bit. (And consequently had to rewrite this whole portion. The original piece I wrote is coloured grey and is in italics after this piece)
This read primarily stems from how well I vibe with his reads. Now, for a stronger player (ex glow) this wouldn't be as much of a towntell, as they can create genuine lines of logic as mafia. But this level of transparency as mafia for a player like heyden is (no offense Heyden) much more difficult.
This might look like a copout, but I have a lot of trouble reading Heyden. I don't think he's really produced an alignment tell the whole game. While he was the first person to mention bowie's exclamation over flavour, most of his reads didn't strike me as particularly great. Could be overthinking an easy townread here but I'm just not seeing it. Glow once told me she was great at reading Heyden. What're your thoughts here Glow?

Glow - Initially I townread her because I could understand the thought process behind her posts. I don't recall whether I mentioned this or not, regardless, the more I think about it the dumber that read is. Glow's good enough to fake legitimate content as mafia. Now, that being said, I would still have her as a slight townread - because I'm such a sucker for being able to put myself in someone else's shoes and for it to make sense - except for the fact that I really don't like her pivot onto Bowie.
I feel like I should qualify here that the read she's talking about there (Declaring that it's weird/odd for someone to be townreading you) is in fact a legitimate scumtell. But considering the evidence of his exclamation about flavour, it's pretty irrelevant.

Cleb - Not going to waste my time writing a read on someone who's intentionally changed their playstyle to be petulant and unhelpful. I want someone to light a fire underneath Cleb so he actually starts doing something remotely useful.

Dolby - Sorry, I'm going to refrain from going down this rabbit hole here. I think his plays been sloppy, which is hypocritical considering I'm doing something nearly identical due to a nearly identical reason, but things would just make a lot more sense if he was mafia. I'm not going to attempt to drive this home, because I don't have the necessary time to juxtapose the information required to make sure I had accurate information in a case against him - just like he doesn't have the time to make a case against me, but he attempted that anyway. I don't want to make something as sloppy as the thing he made on me. I think he's mafia, but my time is much better spent grinding content elsewhere.
I especially thought it was amusing when he claimed I was going after newer players "because they didn't know how to defend themselves", when it's not particularly esoteric knowledge that the newer someone is, the more useful their reaction will be to people trying to read them.

SansaiGallade - People claim that I'm nitpicking here. People claim that I'm making a case out of something which is just a little off. People claim that I'm being opportunistic, or trying to ram home a lynch on someone that doesn't know how to stop it.
None of these are accurate. I'm shining a heat on someone who, from his overly defensive manner, has hidden information. Given that as jailer he behaved like a normal townie, this hints strongly toward him being mafia.
I initially had him as red on this read list, but the way he reacted here scares me in that he might be someone who can't really handle being pressured, because an OMGUS like this and townreading of anyone that came to his defense like that is exactly how I would behave around 6-7 years ago when I was a horrible new player that really couldn't handle pressure.
One of the parts that make me hesitate most is that the way he's townreading Dolby for coming to his defense is object to how someone in his situation would treat a mafia team-mate. So it's less likely that both Dolby and Sansai are mafia.
Tl;dr I want to have him as read from how awkward and defensive he's been, but I'm worried that he just can't handle pressure

--------

Didn't have time to read up on:
Kat - remember having her as weak town though.
f11 - don't remember any of their content specifically.

I managed to x this tab part way through and consequently had to rewrite quite a portion of that. I was going to collapse and likely immediately fall asleep, but in my heavily sleep deprived and mind addled state, I've forgotten whether EoD is in 8 hours, or a day and 8 hours, if someone could clarify that for me, it'd be excellent.

Hopefully this post clears up where I stand.

P.S. usually when I write up these, I have a couple drafts and I redraft until I'm happy with how clearly each piece of information is presented, because especially in large posts like this one, it can sometimes be hard to get through all the information, so being as clear and concise as possible is useful. But this however is a first draft. I didn't check over anything, it's a giant mess, but it's better than nothing.
 
Endless;7462458 [color=orange said:
SansaiGallade[/color] - People claim that I'm nitpicking here. People claim that I'm making a case out of something which is just a little off. People claim that I'm being opportunistic, or trying to ram home a lynch on someone that doesn't know how to stop it.
None of these are accurate. I'm shining a heat on someone who, from his overly defensive manner, has hidden information. Given that as jailer he behaved like a normal townie, this hints strongly toward him being mafia.
I initially had him as red on this read list, but the way he reacted here scares me in that he might be someone who can't really handle being pressured, because an OMGUS like this and townreading of anyone that came to his defense like that is exactly how I would behave around 6-7 years ago when I was a horrible new player that really couldn't handle pressure.
One of the parts that make me hesitate most is that the way he's townreading Dolby for coming to his defense is object to how someone in his situation would treat a mafia team-mate. So it's less likely that both Dolby and Sansai are mafia.
Tl;dr I want to have him as read from how awkward and defensive he's been, but I'm worried that he just can't handle pressure

So what sort of information could I be hiding then, like you claim? Your also forgetting that SU mafia was my first game so 'acting' as town was probably the only thing I could do, but also would you not get defensive when people are making false alligations against you? Would you not fight for your cause? Because me being defensive is perfectly reasonable when you have a user like yourself accusing me of hiding something when there isn't anything to hide and of being mafia.
 
@Abe Day ends in a day and a few hours, to answer your question. We got time.

Gonna reread a lot of the recent interactions, I feel like I'm missing something big. Meanwhile tho, good music if you care: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXigFDxNUeI

- - - Post Merge - - -

@Sensai Lemme give you the advice Abe gave me last game: its good to reply to accusations, but you want to also focus on contributing as well. Its not good to dwell on **** otherwise.
 
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