Mafia Mafia: Trouble in Alola (Day 2)

okay trundle has finally spoken, my thoughts on him are null for now. dolby is also null.

FN ive decided to pay attention to later, the fact he made up his mind to have the most useless playstyle before the game even started means he wants to change his playstyle meta for not only this game, but for all games. overall i see it as a move for him to make it harder for people to read him so easily not in just this game, but games from now on.


unless im giving him too much credit... :lemon:

chick will likely be replaced by daniel.


cleb vs dolby has been going on meanwhile in the background, ill try to write a post on my phone about this. god damnit why was my bus late.
 
xCleb said:
You know if you didn't get pissed off every time I say something that has anything to do with you maybe you'd see where I'm coming from. Literally if I hadn't said anything and linked you to it you probably wouldn't have done nearly as much as you have nearly as much to prove the idea wrong than you did. The game doesn't revolve around you, Dolby. Learn to take some opposing viewpoints and don't just OMGUS if you just so happen to prove those points incorrect.

In regards to the actual argument, Apple's activity certainly saw a huge spike in SU2, though I still believe the similarities of his pre-lynch play are showing many similarities to the way he's playing now. Even at one point, some of his posts before that Day show similarities to this game, being much more fleshed out than typical posts from him. From my perspective, activity generally means very little toward figuring out an alignment, especially when you're looking at more experienced players (like Apple himself). All activity really changes is the scale in which we can look at difference between one game and another, which in turn can lead to more or better information. The raw numbers just don't do all that much.

Also, in regards to comparing his activity in the two games, scaling them together shows that he wasn't all that inactive in Themeless like you suggest he was. The game is nearly three times shorter, so of course he's going to have fewer posts. By the time he died in SU2 and Themeless, there were about 1600 and 750 posts already made, respectively, so sure, he was less active in Themeless, but it's not to the extent that you make it out to be.

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Can you read?
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Did you even read my ****ing post. I literally made a point that there were different amounts of activity, and the scale of activity between the two games was vastly different in my post and you just blow past it.

But fine. Anyway, by the time Trundle was lynched in SU 5 days had passed, when he was lynched in Themeless, 7 days had passed. So no, Themeless was not "three times shorter" as you say. If anything, Trundle had more of an oppertunity to prove himself in Themeless, and yet he failed to take it. As for your point on activity, I actually agree with sentiment, and I haven't had the time or resources to properly demonstrate the difference between his playstyles as of yet, but at least do your research on game length and playstyle. Clearly, you haven't even looked into SU. Themeless was almost the same length as SU in timescale, and the point is, Trundle was pretty lazy then, while going tryhard in SU. In addition, in Themeless he honestly didn't really care, while he was invested in SU (though I feel it has more to do with the required investment than his alignment in both games)

And please don't make the assertion that I'm OMGUSing when you clearly haven't done your research, and you were pissed at Trundle for linking yourself to Jacob

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Also Kallie, it ends at 4, you should make it
 
Dolby said:
Looking back, I feel like Trundle would be acting differently from both themeless and SU due to the context of both games.

Themeless was overly nooby, with easily swayed townies and pretty much every experienced player except him and Panda were maf

(which isn't conductive to making good reads, since he described himself in the past as "not being able to tell the difference between new town and scum").

However, Trundle was notably inactive. While SU pretty much forced him to be active, making something like 100+ posts in under 48 hours.

And, 24 hours into said game as scum, he actually posted a pretty complete reads list for 24 hours in

This is like super weak and stuff, but I have to go right now, but TL;DR. I see more similarities in Trundle to Themeless than SU
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I'm sorry, what was that again about you saying that the scale of each game was different? You're blatantly taking what I'm saying and acting like you said it first, when you didn't say anything about that.
 
xCleb said:
I'm sorry, what was that again about you saying that the scale of each game was different? You're blatantly taking what I'm saying and acting like you said it first, when you didn't say anything about that.
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However, Trundle was notably inactive. While SU pretty much forced him to be active, making something like 100+ posts in under 48 hours.
 
Also, you're getting the timescale and the CoDs wrong. In SU2, five days did pass before he was lynched, so you're correct in that regard. However, in Themeless, only six days had passed, and he was NK'ed.

In terms of the "three times shorter" regard, I meant in terms of raw post count, not timescale. As you can see, the timescale isn't as different as you make it out to be, since there's only one phase difference between the two games, so the argument is still completely valid to make.
 
SensaiGallade said:
I said I would answer so here I am.



I've gave my thoughts now on the Cleb and Karen interaction. I was null on Cleb and slight town lean on Karen. As I explained, Cleb's aggressiveness towards Karen is something I woudn't expect a Mafia to be, though he may of just been getting annoyed with Karen, hence the null.

Karen seemed like she was just trying to get a reaction and start a discussion, which is why I think she's a town lean.



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Crap forgot to answer the last part >_<

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In response to the second quote:

Again, I gave my thoughts but I'll go more in depth later and see how the rest of the day rolls.
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no i meant who else do u find suspicious

Jacob said:
Ok I'm finally home on a desktop so I'm gonna try to get myself organized again. I'm gonna isolate people's posts and write up thoughts on them, hopefully finding a good lynch candidate...
I'm gonna skip people with little content because it's only day one

--

Dolby




This was pretty early in the day but still a little weird. I guess he genuinely just changed his mind after an hour, but flopping like that early shouldn't be taken very lightly I don't think. Especially from someone who's incredibly hard to successfully scum read



I think this post shows a pretty genuine response like Dolby actually does not know Kermit's alignment. I think the interactions between the two of them is pretty interesting, like if Kermit is town then Dolby is probably town, but if Kermit flips out to be third party somehow, I get a feeling Dolby might be mafia.

--

Toadsworthy




I've seen Toad's play style go all over the place lol but so far this game he's not making too much of a big deal out of anything. Instead he's calling out people like Bianca and Kirby for viable reasons which I respect. He's helping, also drinking a lot which I also respect (lol), and he seems genuine. I know he's pretty good at hiding in as mafia but I'm town leaning him.


--

Apple2013


I'm getting town vibes from this (his only) post because it seems calm, yet not too much effort which I think is indicating that this game really isn't all that important to trundle. He has more posts pregame which tells me he isn't that invested. I take from this he doesn't have an important role. Town lean

--

ITookYourWaffles






So it's pretty apparent that Itookyourwaffles is a veteran player which I respect, and it seems that they have skill in this game, but at this point I think it's a little early to put a alignment on them. My guess is that ITYW gets more insightful as there are more kills and actions so I would rather read them more in depth tomorrow. Day one from them is a lot of figuring out who to lynch and summarizations, and not really pushing anyone too hard. Null



Ok so edit* I know I didn't do too much, and for the 4 people I did read, the content isn't very packed. The people I started with were at the bottom of the amount of posts list, and then dolby was just a random pick... However writing that up took a little longer than expected and I need to leave my house rn, so I'm just gonna post it so you guys can read and don't think I'm going inactive.

I'll be finishing up the reads on the rest of the players as soon as I can, I apologize.
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how do you feel about cleb. leggo.


ITookYourWaffles said:
Well I dunno why you guys jump on bandwagon and voted for him aside from not contributing + inactive I mean isn't it too early to vote FN1?? I get it he is active in Mystic Messenger claimed as 707 and his post are entirely useless[?] no offense bucko I thought you have changed for 2-3 years when I left TBT. I feel like FN1 isnt interested playing the game rn? Tbh can't tell about FN1 so null for now



On my second thought ������ nah I'm kidding bud
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you seem very defensive of FN, which isnt always indictivate of scum, but i just think its interesting. maybe youre connected in some way rolewise to FN (doesnt always have to be scum leaning)

hmmm...

N e s s said:
Okay, heres my thoughts right now:

I believe that Apples2013 is scum. I believe this mostly in part to this post:



He has absolutely 0 reasons to have claimed here other than attempting to start a mass-claim (which for the most part has worked with Kermit claiming townie, stop.). I can see scum!Apples getting nervous over people like Kallie getting suspicious of his inactivity so he resorts to claiming, having the idea that if he claims he'll be able to get other people to claim as well.

Furthermore, Apples is NOT playing like a townie.

The last game that Apples played in was Themeless mafia and he was townie in that game, and he played a LOT differently on D1 in that game than he is now. This game he has 5 posts and he has already claimed Townie, while in Themeless he made a ton s***posts and tried baiting people with reaction tests with a much more playful tone. I do not see that at all from Trundle right now.

He does claim townie in the beginning, but he does this differently than he is this game. He did this as a reaction test, which I do not see from Trundle this game (as he openly confirmed it instead).















From there on out it gets more serious. As you can see, majority of his posts in this game have been lighthearted and playful.

Obviously, right off the bat he's playing a lot more serious than he was in themeless.





Wanted to address the above quote: it is true that Apples hasn't randomly claimed as scum day 1, but I have seen him claim for little reasoning besides making himself look townish before. (See Game of Thrones mafia where he claimed Vigilante at the start of D2 to attempt to make himself clear)

For today, I am voting Apples. If not, I would be fine with a FireNinja or Kirby lynch. Also, we are not NLing @FireNinja1.
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how do you know that wasnt a reaction bait itself? or trying to spite zendel lul (something trundle would totally do) but i camt read those posts well on mobile so im going off the non spoiler parts

xCleb said:
@Ness - I find that information interesting, and seeing the shift in posting-style makes me suspicious of not only Apple, but Dolby as well, who had a Town lean on Apple based on his meta. At any rate, both of them should be looked into, Dolby to a greater extent if Apple happens to flip scum.

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I feel like Dolby would have been able to see a shift in play-style as blatant as that, so the fact that it's brushed to the side and is assumed to be similar meta is actually quite suspect.
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interesting observation.

Apple2013 said:
can someone say most intrusive host ever

- - - Post Merge - - -



Do you think I'm actually playing carefully or are you just baiting for a reaction?

- - - Post Merge - - -



Actually, it would give the mafia PRs, but it would also narrow down who the mafia could be by a large amount. Mafia typically only claims townie (depending on the setup I suppose, not sure what kind of safe claims they would be given, if any), so you need to just discern the obviously town townies from the scum who claimed townies. Townies are some of the easiest people to tell in the game because they don't need to be afraid of dying or showing their role. That's why a distinction between blue and mafia is useful - they're hard to tell apart in the first place. How often do you see someone call someone out as either blue or mafia? There's a reason for that.
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i mean who knows about rhis setup. mafia could have a crazy role and kill even more blues or ****. and im fairly sure one experienced player is madia so im not keen on massclaiminf but i see why you want to do it to spite sendel

Apple2013 said:
All I'm saying is that with how he is so reluctant to confirm to deny anyone in his reads makes him seem pretty fishy. It's a common scum tactic, I use it literally every game when I'm mafia.

ex: "Ness seems kinda scummy right now with his last post. However with how he posted last game I think he's probably town right now."

You essentially contradict yourself to remain neutral but still look like you're providing content in the game.
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whoops i thought the ex was something farobi literally said. will have to read through farobis posts though


for the moment i do not suspect FN or ITYW of being scum and will probably try to scramble to change my vote fast enough. theyre a tp/town lean for me.
 
Dolby said:
However, Trundle was notably inactive. While SU pretty much forced him to be active, making something like 100+ posts in under 48 hours.
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Yeah, because that game had a lot more general activity than Themeless. That makes sense in the scaling.
 
xCleb said:
Also, you're getting the timescale and the CoDs wrong. In SU2, five days did pass before he was lynched, so you're correct in that regard. However, in Themeless, only six days had passed, and he was NK'ed.

In terms of the "three times shorter" regard, I meant in terms of raw post count, not timescale. As you can see, the timescale isn't as different as you make it out to be, since there's only one phase difference between the two games, so the argument is still completely valid to make.
Click to expand...

what does NKd mean
 
xCleb said:
Yeah, because that game had a lot more general activity than Themeless. That makes sense in the scaling.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's my point, you made two incorrect assertions . 1. That I did not address the difference in general posting 2. That the difference in timescale is significant. I don't have a computer right now, but if you look back, Trundle actually made a fairly complete reads post in SU and made an extensive effort to steer the D1 lynch (I often find that experienced players as town don't do that as much), while in Themeless, he does not attempt to control the lynch (note, this bit is from memory, having a hard time getting the filter for him in that game to load)

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lol, yeah you do
 
Dolby said:
Yes, that's my point, you made two incorrect assertions . 1. That I did not address the difference in general posting 2. That the difference in timescale is significant. I don't have a computer right now, but if you look back, Trundle actually made a fairly complete reads post in SU and made an extensive effort to steer the D1 lynch (I often find that experienced players as town don't do that as much), while in Themeless, he does not attempt to control the lynch (note, this bit is from memory, having a hard time getting the filter for him in that game to load)
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lemme get this right

so themeless he was town and the shephard guiding noobs?

SU he was scum?

do you have any more games? im not familar with most of the recent games

however im curious if trundle did not wanr to steer the lynch for most of this day because we had people who had played mafia before.
 
To be fair, I'm not the one saying that the timescale between the two games is significant. That's all you there, I don't think 24 hours makes that much of a difference in this case lol.
 
kallie said:
lemme get this right

so themeless he was town and the shephard guiding noobs?

SU he was scum?

do you have any more games? im not familar with most of the recent games

however im curious if trundle did not wanr to steer the lynch for most of this day because we had people who had played mafia before.
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He was town in themeless and iirc he did a bad job leading the noobs. SU he was scum, steered the lynch from the Blackmailer to his goon to preserve a maf PR. I think another recent one he played in was overwatch
 
Farobi said:
I've been going over some people and here are my thoughts on them, most of which are just gut feelings but still:

SensaiGallade - Little to work with, but overall lack of flavor in their posts. Granted it's day 1 and they are somewhat new to this game. But if i were to pick a side I'm leaning slightly towards maf.

FireNinja1 - i feel like he's laying kinda low, wouldn't object his lynch. At the same time, day 1 has really little to with so i feel u. Despite that I'll be very cautious with him.

Kirby - "I'm lazy when i get a bad role." Could go both ways. Generally feeling town at the moment though.


I could vote for either FN1 or Sensai by the end of today unless something drastic happens. I still can't really tell who among the discussion-leaders could be potential maf, esp considering i dont know whether the balancing with good players being a godfather (if thats still a thing) applies. Or maybe they're all town (Dolby and kallie at the top of my head). I remember Trundle being quite active and a good mafia player the past years so kinda odd he isnt talking much.

yes this is lowkey paranoia right here.
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so im guessing this post is why trundle found farobi suspicious? i didnt notice it until i reread it but im curious to why its FN who he wants to lynch but noy kirby despite basically saying they could both go either way. i mean, isnt FN and Kirby basically the same in their apatheticness? though kirbys trying more. kind of.


also curious why he didnt mention chick for inactives, i guess that prompted ITYW to take notice.
 
kallie said:
no i meant who else do u find suspicious
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Oops must of misread.

Fireninja lack of activity and contentless posts put me on edgle slightly.

Apple's town claim which came out of nowhere. I wouldn't be so bothered if he was on the hot seat but he wasn't, now as a result, players here now are questioning his alignment, including myself.

Bianca's placeholder vote at the beginning of the game as well as her contradictory in a post earlier today stands out to me.

I did initially townlean Kermit after his dispute with cleb but his ****posting throughout the day has made no contribution whatsoever to the game and frustrates me more than anything. Their wasting their time and if they're "bored", they might aswell stop posting and let themselves be modkilled because they ain't doing any favours right now. Scum lean.
 
Dolby said:
Thinking about, I'm actually surprised how easily Cleb was swayed by the meta aspect of meta's argument. Kinda makes me think inno Ness and Trundle with guilty Cleb

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Ok, we have 2 hours left at this point. My current prefered lynch is FN1, but honestly, it feels like a policy
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That's because it is a policy lynch.

I'm not opposed to a Trundle / Farobi lynch.
 
EBWOP : I have to vote within Apple and Farobi. I don't think it matters what I'm opposed to or for, but I'll gladly write about it.

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Apple2013 said:
tfw you claim because you think the host is doing a terrible job and now every1 thinks ur scum
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That's a terrible reason for claiming anyway.

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Apple2013 said:
tfw you claim because you think the host is doing a terrible job and now every1 thinks ur scum
Click to expand...

That's a terrible reason for claiming anyway.
 
Dolby said:
If you had to choose one over the other, who would it be? And do you think they're likely to both be scum?
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I would pick the leading wagon, realistically. If I had complete autonomy I would vote Trundle, but I don't in this situation.
 
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