# Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia General Discussion



## Holla (May 9, 2017)

Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia is remake of the second game in the series Fire Emblem Gaiden that never realeased outside of Japan in 1992. The remake came out last month for Japan, but comes out on May 19th for Europe and North America and I believe May 20th for those in Australia.

What you do you guys think of the game pre-release? Do you like the old concepts being brought back such as no Weapon triangle? Post-release details can be discussed in here as well but please use spoilers if talking about anything that could ruin the game for someone who hasn't gotten as far.

I'm personally looking forward to it. I like the idea of remakes, especially ones we never had the original of to begin with. Staying true to the old mechanics of the original will take some getting used to, but I don't mind a bit of a change compared to the recent games. I already pre-purchased and pre-downloaded my copy. Just patiently waiting for the 19th.


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## Ehingen Guy (May 9, 2017)

I'm so pumped for this game. I preordered the Limited Edition once it became available. I'm looking forward to using the amiibos and seeing what they unlock.


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## tumut (May 9, 2017)

Im getting it for sure. I think I wanna play Alm's route first though im not sure. I love the characters' art style. Dungeon crawling seems the most interesting and I also think theres fatigue mechanics, hopefully theres more varying objectives.


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## Akira-chan (May 10, 2017)

I am hyped for this, mostly because of the free roaming and how ya know,,,,,you dont have to pay,,,,for,,,both,,,stories,,,


it seems very nonlinear and i am hyped for it.


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## Elvera (May 13, 2017)

So hyped for this!!
I'm getting the limited edition because of the art book which I'm really looking forward to flipping through. 

...And of course the game, Awaking was the first fire emblem game I played so I'm looking forward to playing a remake of one of the older ones.


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## Hopeless Opus (May 13, 2017)

i probably won't get it but i'm excited to see what the story will be like


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## Holla (May 16, 2017)

Only a couple more days until release guys! ^_^ I can't wait.


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## Ehingen Guy (May 18, 2017)

Elvera said:


> So hyped for this!!
> I'm getting the limited edition because of the art book which I'm really looking forward to flipping through.
> 
> ...And of course the game, Awaking was the first fire emblem game I played so I'm looking forward to playing a remake of one of the older ones.



There's more to the LE besides the artbook, you know. Alm and Cecilia amiibos, a soundtrack CD, 3 pins, a steelbook case, the artbook and of course, the game itself. 

One. More. Day. The wait is killing me.


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## Holla (May 18, 2017)

Ehingen Guy said:


> There's more to the LE besides the artbook, you know. Alm and Cecilia amiibos, a soundtrack CD, 3 pins, a steelbook case, the artbook and of course, the game itself.
> 
> One. More. Day. The wait is killing me.



This is true, though the North American LE doesn't include the Amiibo for some reason. I've heard the NA LE is cheaper though so that's likely why. Just have to buy the Amiibo separate for those who want them and the LE in North America.

I went with pre-prechasing the game and pre-downloading it instead. As nice as the LE would be I can't really afford it. That and I hope to find one of the Amiibo packs in store tomorrow if possible.


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## Cress (May 19, 2017)

The game just released on the NA eshop and I'm wondering if I should download it now or wait a bit.


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## Cress (May 19, 2017)

I stopped by Target earlier and decided to pick this up. This is exactly what I wanted the game to be like so far oml
I've just completed Alm's first chapter, so time to swap over to Celica and commence the *B•O•A•T M•A•P•S*


Spoiler: My team



I've looked up 1 thing online so far and that was when to promote units. The general answer I found was to wait until level 10 for villagers, otherwise promote them ASAP. However since Alm's team is just a huge collection of villagers, I ended up promoting them all at around level 7-9. I made Kliff and Faye Mages, Gray a Mercenary, and Tobin a Cavalier. KLIFF AND FAYE SLAY NOW IT ISN'T EVEN FUNNY. Gray feels glass cannon-ish now which isn't a bad thing by any means. Tobin feels the same but just a bit better.
I skipped Python because iirc characters you don't recruit with Alm can be later recruited by Celica, so I'm giving him to her (I only know the first chapter and half of the second of Gaiden so I'm mostly playing blind).


Playing on Normal/Classic btw, permadeath is one of FE's basics, but I want to just play for the story and experience of the game first even though I could probably handle hard. I've used the rewind clock thing once so far but that was because an enemy got a crit and killed Kliff when he should've survived so ye.


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## Libra (May 21, 2017)

Undecided whether to buy this game or not. I loved Awakening but didn't play Fates because of the reviews. Was very interested in Shadows of Valentia but apparently the maps aren't that great, so eh... Might have to flip a coin to really decide, LOL.


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## vel (May 21, 2017)

i'm going to have to sit on buying the game for now, don't have money & i'm incredibly busy this time of year, so i won't have time to play or i will be distracted. i plan on buying it in the summer, but for now i'm going to just sit.


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## Holla (May 21, 2017)

I'm currently playing on Classic Normal for my first play through. I'm not exactly new to the series, but I wouldn't call myself a veteran either. After seeing how my Normal play through goes I may attempt a save on hard.

So far I'm really liking the game. It's a bit different but I like it when things get changed up a bit. The story also has me very interested. Can't wait to see how the rest of the game turns out!


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## noctibloom (May 22, 2017)

I purchased the Limited Edition version of the game, and I have to say, I'm quite pleased! I haven't played much of the game yet, but I really have enjoyed myself so far. I'm also a huge sucker for anything that includes an art book, especially anime-style art.


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## noctibloom (May 22, 2017)

Libra said:


> Undecided whether to buy this game or not. I loved Awakening but didn't play Fates because of the reviews. Was very interested in Shadows of Valentia but apparently the maps aren't that great, so eh... Might have to flip a coin to really decide, LOL.



The story of Fates is a bit meh,and certain features feel shoehorned in because they were popular in Awakening,  but the Conquest maps are definitely more interesting than the maps in Awakening. I'm still far more attached to Awakening because I connected with Chrom and Robin more than any character in Fates, though, so I can understand.


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## tumut (May 23, 2017)

not opening it until finals are over ergsdfkn


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## Cam1 (May 23, 2017)

I just started act 4, quite enjoying the game so far! 



Spoiler



Villager reclasses:
Faye - Mage
Kliff - Mage
Tobin - Soldier
Gray - Mercenary

I am quite fond of how they all play with these classes. I also tried Kliff as a Cavalier and Tobin as an archer and found mage and soldier to be much more effective


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## Akira-chan (May 24, 2017)

anyone know any way to boost my team? idk where to grind and plus my teams kinda weak on celicas side. i have like a rating of 761 while on alm i have like 1000. any help?


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## Ehingen Guy (May 26, 2017)

Akira-chan said:


> anyone know any way to boost my team? idk where to grind and plus my teams kinda weak on celicas side. i have like a rating of 761 while on alm i have like 1000. any help?



I keep batting enemies that appear on the map and in dungeons. 



Spoiler



Mae is totally badass once she learns Aura and she's one of my main Terror killers. I promoted her to Priestess and now she's even *more* badass. I made Atlas a Cavalier and later into a Paladin. Valbar is pretty tough too. I promoted him from Knight to Baron and he's pretty much unstoppable, unless he's targeted by magic.


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## Yuni (May 27, 2017)

I love Hidari but I'm not paying $100 for the limited edition (Australia)...

Probably going to get the NA version when it goes on sale and import the JP limited ed.


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## Cress (May 28, 2017)

Finally got to Act 4, this week has been kinda weird for me so it took me a while.


Spoiler: Spoilers I guess



The final Act 3 maps for both Alm and Celica were both pretty easy, but WOW the difficulty ramped up for both of them, now even the first level for both of them in 4 is a huge difficulty spike and I may need to grind a few levels.
I now regret making both Kliff and Faye mages, Alm's team is flooded with mages now. Faye as a Peg. Knight probably would've been a better idea, but too late.
Saber is still silly.


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## Ehingen Guy (May 29, 2017)

Cress said:


> Finally got to Act 4, this week has been kinda weird for me so it took me a while.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Spoilers I guess
> ...



 I made Faye and Clair Pegasus Knights since Pegasus Knights are good at taking down Terrors and magic wielders.



Spoiler:  Act 4 Hazards



Beware of Witches, Cantors and Arcanists. Witches are my worst nightmare. They can teleport anywhere on the battlefield and mostly target the armored units. Arcanists spam the hell out of Mire and Miasma. Cantors always spawn Terrors, before they decide to spam you with Mire or Death. I recommend taking them out with a Pegasus Knight, asap.


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## Cress (Jun 2, 2017)

Thank you linkmstr, now nobody has to buy the only DLC that adds story content. 
Rise of the Deliverance Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
So if anyone wants to get any DLC, the second pack is really the only one worth it, and maybe the 5th one with the 4 bonus units.


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## Ehingen Guy (Jun 2, 2017)

I plan on getting the season pass once I have enough funds.


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## Trundle (Jun 2, 2017)

How is this game compared to Fates and Awakening? I pick up every FE game at release but I didn't pick this one up for some reason.


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## SensaiGallade (Jun 2, 2017)

A bit off topic, but Fire Emblem Heroes is my first Fire Emblem game and has made me want to pick up Echoes! How is the game?


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## Cress (Jun 2, 2017)

Apple2013 said:


> How is this game compared to Fates and Awakening? I pick up every FE game at release but I didn't pick this one up for some reason.


Compared to them, this game is simpler in a lot of ways. No weapon triangle, and with the exception of Villagers everyone has only 1 class that they can be, and they can't change it, nor do their promotions feature branching paths. You can give the Villager's Fork to someone to turn them into a villager and therefore letting them go down 1 of 4 or 5 (depending on their gender) class routes, but you get a limited amount of them. Missions are much quicker as there aren't the usual set 26~28 chapters this time, there's a few smaller missions (the maps themselves are larger in most cases though ) that you can tackle in a somewhat free order after a certain point. Of course there are still some missions that can take over an hour to beat, but those are for the most part important late-game missions, the majority can be done in 15-30 minutes. Weapons also never break similar to Fates gaidendiditfirst but they also don't have those silly side effects of "oh you can use this but you can't make crits or use abilities lelelelel." Passive skills are gone and instead you gain abilities through whatever item you're holding, or depending on your class. Some of them are passive, such as the Dread Fighter's _Apotrope_, which halves all magical damage taken, or the Iron Bow's _Curved Shot_, which is an ability that you manually activate and gives you higher damage, hit, and crit rates, but prevents you from doubling. Speaking of archers, they can hit MUCH farther in this game, 1-3 spaces is the norm (yes bow users can hit at melee range normally), and the later you get you can potentially hit from *7 spaces away*, so they're really helpful compared to how they were in Awakening. The only downside is that bows aren't universally effective against fliers, only certain bows are. Thankfully you don't battle very many fliers, and not very many enemy archers have anti-flier bows so it works out in your favor. Also mages and healers have to sacrifice their own HP to use magic; and more is used the better the heal/damage is. Mila's Turnwheel is also added, which lets you turn back to a previous turn. This is helpful for if one of your units got crited and died, or you accidentally hit wait when you meant to hit attack. Hit rates are also back to how they were in older games, have fun missing wayyyyy more. There's also 3D dungeons to explore so that's pretty cool. Pair up is gone but supports are still here.
Gaiden in general is super different so I probably missed some stuff.


SensaiGallade said:


> A bit off topic, but Fire Emblem Heroes is my first Fire Emblem game and has made me want to pick up Echoes! How is the game?


So for the most part, you'll notice the exact opposite of everything I said above  (read the part above too though). Missions are much longer and have you controlling and battling way more units in much larger maps. Normal FE games also have a hit and critical (shortened to crit most of the time) %, so attacks have the potential to miss, but you also have a chance to deal higher damage. Different terrain (such as everyone's favorite forests) can affect hit rates, and can sometimes heal or hurt you. Cavalry can also run into/through forests in this game, but everyone still has lower movement when going through them. Characters can also develop into different classes, and even though there aren't as many options as in other FE games, you get to see them develop into better classes. Characters can also hold items, which can either be stronger weapons, shields to raise defenses, food that they can eat to restore HP, rings with different effects, and other stuff. Characters also have WAY more stats than in Heroes. Physical attack and Magic are divided into 2 separate stats (as some units like Celica can use both) *Edit: Nevermind, Attack and Magic are still merged into 1 stat. I thought they were seperate;
 kinda embarrassing I didn't notice that until now with how far I am into the game. *, and the Luck and Skill stats are introduced. High skill=high hit rates, and high luck=lower enemy crit rates. Crit rates are usually determined by skill but I think they may be determined by luck in this game so it wouldn't hurt to load up on both.
Again I probably forgot to mention some stuff but you can watch this to get a somewhat better understanding of how it plays (the quality is really fuzzy but it's the best thing to show, and it isn't that far into the game either).


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## Holla (Jun 5, 2017)

What did you guys make Atlas? I made him a Mercenary in my first play through. He's now a pretty good Dread Fighter but I'm wondering if Archer would have been better choice since I have 2 on Alm's side and they are super useful. That and Celica's side already has several good Mercenaries.

If anyone has made him an Archer how is he? Or even if you made him something different from merc.


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## Cress (Jun 5, 2017)

Holla said:


> What did you guys make Atlas? I made him a Mercenary in my first play through. He's now a pretty good Dread Fighter but I'm wondering if Archer would have been better choice since I have 2 on Alm's side and they are super useful. That and Celica's side already has several good Mercenaries.
> 
> If anyone has made him an Archer how is he? Or even if you made him something different from merc.



I made him an archer and he contributes nothing
Granted most of my gameplay involves throwing Dread Fighter Saber and Kamui into basically any kind of mess and watch as they kill everything while somehow staying at nearly full health but yeah, Leon is consistently better for me. Maybe he needs more investment but it isn't worth it imo when I could be training up... any other character really.


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## Holla (Jun 5, 2017)

Cress said:


> I made him an archer and he contributes nothing
> Granted most of my gameplay involves throwing Dread Fighter Saber and Kamui into basically any kind of mess and watch as they kill everything while somehow staying at nearly full health but yeah, Leon is consistently better for me. Maybe he needs more investment but it isn't worth it imo when I could be training up... any other character really.



I know Atlas has low skill and speed so that's why I played it safe in going with Mercenary for him. I wonder if a Killer Bow would help or not as an Archer?


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## Ehingen Guy (Jun 7, 2017)

I made Atlas a Cavalier. Celica's side seems to be lacking them.


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## f11 (Jun 12, 2017)

Nevernind I figured it out


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## tumut (Jun 12, 2017)

SensaiGallade said:


> A bit off topic, but Fire Emblem Heroes is my first Fire Emblem game and has made me want to pick up Echoes! How is the game?


Start with Awakening,  Echoes isn't a good first time fe I since its kind of a black sheep, granted its a ton of fun though but it'll be a lot different than anything you're used to in heroes.


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## Cress (Jun 15, 2017)

Spoiler: Act 5



Not done with it yet but holy **** Berkut's fight was intense. I think that was the longest fight I've had so far in this game, I was basically killing 1 or 2 enemies per turn just to make sure it went well (I even had to trap one of the dread fighters in a corner with Gray and Lukas because those pricks don't die). Thankfully Faye got a much needed crit on Berkut so it was all fine. First getting the killing blow on Rudolf, now Berkut, she's killing all of Alm's family to make sure there's nobody to stop her from having Alm oops.
I also started crying a bit at the cut scenes at the end of act 4 and all of act 5. I know the events (since the game is so obvious about its "twists," I mean DESAIX JUST TELLS YOU "OH UR RUDOLF'S SON BTW NOW BRB DYING" AND THEN ALM IS SURPRISED BY IT LATER SOMEHOW LIKE HE'S NEVER HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT IT BEFORE, PLUS ALL OF THE SUBTLE HINTS LIKE "OH THIS COLD AIR IS FAMILIAR BUT IT'S NOTHING, NOT LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IS ALMOST FROZEN WHILE I'M FINE.
...Celica gets hate for being dumb but Alm deserves some flak too.

Oh yeah, voice acting is great and the delivering is 10/10 throughout the entire game, makes me cry.  Berkut is probably the best though, his rant scenes are so powerful.



- - - Post Merge - - -

Add-in: One of Delthea's crit quotes is "SORRY NOT SORRY!" which is the best crit quote thus far, no contest.


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## Cress (Jun 16, 2017)

Oh yeah I beat the final boss earlier.
It look me over 2 hours at least. Not particularly hard, but just really tedious. Maybe there's some way to cheese it that I didn't notice but I beat it on my first try anyways so who cares.
Now time to grind forever for exp and good weapons for the bonus content yaaaaaaaaaaay this is totally fair and not tedious at all! Maybe the Internet overexaggerated it but looking at videos, they seem to be right

Clair with Gradivus is a goddess btw


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## tumut (Jun 16, 2017)

I KILLED SONYA CAUSE U THOUGHT YOU FOUGHT THE ONE U WANTED **** 

My favorite supports so far are Leon and Valbar what a romance. And Silque and Faye.


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## Cam1 (Jun 18, 2017)

The Internet seems to think that Clair is a burden and horrible unit but she actually does really well for me? I gave her the ridersbane and she has decent attack and the highmovwment and lack of enemies with anti-fliers makes her really useful for me


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## Cress (Jun 19, 2017)

Cam said:


> The Internet seems to think that Clair is a burden and horrible unit but she actually does really well for me? I gave her the ridersbane and she has decent attack and the highmovwment and lack of enemies with anti-fliers makes her really useful for me



She's bad in Gaiden and some people think that Echoes copied absolutely everything from the original without any balance changes whatsoever.


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## Ehingen Guy (Jun 19, 2017)

So I've officially beat the main story and now I'm exploring the new unlocked dungeon. I died halfway through, but at least I know what lies ahead. Back to grinding for me!


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## tumut (Jun 20, 2017)

Cam said:


> The Internet seems to think that Clair is a burden and horrible unit but she actually does really well for me? I gave her the ridersbane and she has decent attack and the highmovwment and lack of enemies with anti-fliers makes her really useful for me


Clair is one of the best on Alm's squad for me. Mine has great speed, attack, luck, and decent defense and skill.


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## Kurashiki (Jun 22, 2017)

i've enjoyed this game a lot more than fates and awakening so far, but ive been stuck on berkut's boss battle for a week....i love fe but im not. great at it.


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## Cress (Jul 5, 2017)

So I bought the Cipher characters oops. Plan on training Randal first and have Shade glued to him and see how many levels she can reasonably get from healing. Later I'll give Emma a go.
What do you use Yuzu for though lol, 4 movement and only 3 spells for a mage (2 of those spells are obtainable by ANYONE as a mage, male and female) spells trouble for her. She could maybe do something with the Ladyblade, but with 4 movement why not just use another Dread Fighter? Use her as a mage, but why when powerhouses like Delthea and Sonya already exist, plus you're forced to use Celica so ye. Maybe you'd need to waste a valuable pitchfork on her but I'd rather save them for other characters that I know have some use.

Speaking of the pitchfork, what 3 want to use it the most? I've heard mostly about Lukas and Forsyth and I am thinking about Forsyth (have fun with that garbage movement and horrid res in the lategame Barons) but idk what I should make him if I do reclass him. Maybe another archer? My only 3 rn are Python, Leon, and Atlas. Python is godlike, Leon was amazing in Celica's route but became hot garbage immediately after the final boss, and Atlas has just been a mess since recruitment. So yeah, I'd want someone to tag along with Python, and Forsyth and Python joined the Deliverance together yadda yadda yadda perfect duo, so it'd sorta be a thematic fit as well I guess? Also heavily considering using one on Tobin because I made the tragic mistake of making him a Paladin and wow he's awful. So maybe he should be an archer as well. idk. Gimme your helpful suggestions.


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## Weiland (Jul 7, 2017)

Berkut is *BEAUTIFUL!*
Also, this game is on par with Fates and beats Awakening out of the water.


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## Ehingen Guy (Jul 8, 2017)

I purchased the season pass, thus getting all the DLC. 

Grinding for experience and gold has never been easier. I've forged a majority of my weapons into silver weapons and made a few killer bows for my archers.

The 2 DLC dungeons are great for obtaining weapons and food. I've got a few blessed lances and other great weapons from my last raids.

The new altars that promote the new classes are amazing. Any Priestess immediately learns Mire and Death after promoting to Enchantress. Spartans have a chance of blocking physical attacks. Falcon Knights learn magic after promoting to Harrier.


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## Cress (Jul 9, 2017)

Ehingen Guy said:


> .The new altars that promote the new classes are amazing. Any Priestess immediately learns Mire and Death after promoting to Enchantress. Spartans have a chance of blocking physical attacks. Falcon Knights learn magic after promoting to Harrier.



Okay so since I can't find much about the Overclasses online I'll ask you. What are the special bonuses that each one gets? I know all of them get some stat boosts; that info I found pretty easily. But what's special about them? I know the Priestess overclass grants the 2 spells that you mentioned, Celica's gives her Aura (lol), Sages get Conjure but with a confusing name, Bow Knights gain even more bow range, and Dread Fighter's gain Tri-Affliction. Didn't know the bit about Spartan blocking attacks. But what do Alm's and Cavalry's overclasses give them? And the Saint overclass gives them more spells to abuse I'm guessing?


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## Ehingen Guy (Jul 9, 2017)

Cress said:


> Okay so since I can't find much about the Overclasses online I'll ask you. What are the special bonuses that each one gets? I know all of them get some stat boosts; that info I found pretty easily. But what's special about them? I know the Priestess overclass grants the 2 spells that you mentioned, Celica's gives her Aura (lol), Sages get Conjure but with a confusing name, Bow Knights gain even more bow range, and Dread Fighter's gain Tri-Affliction. Didn't know the bit about Spartan blocking attacks. But what do Alm's and Cavalry's overclasses give them? And the Saint overclass gives them more spells to abuse I'm guessing?



Alm's overclass gives him more bow range, the Calvary overclass offers additional movement and the Saint overclass adds a new spell and skill.


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