# Obama's Immigrant Plan



## Beleated_Media (Nov 20, 2014)

Tonight president Barack Obama revealed a new plan to control illegal immigration. His new plan now allows illegal immigrants to stay in America under these conditions:
-Must have stayed in America for the last 5 years
-Family in born in America
-Must pay taxes
-Cannot have any crime records

I'm personally glad for this change, many have been supporting immigrants and I'm grateful that their wishes have been granted. Your thoughts about Obama's plan?


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## #1 Senpai (Nov 20, 2014)

idc because im not in the country but obama is bae


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## samsquared (Nov 20, 2014)

-Family born in America
Provide specifics on this parameter please?

I love progressive immigration reform and this is certainly a step in the right direction, but I can't help but assume that Congress will use these attempts at legislation that doesn't suck and won't immediately die in the House subcommittees to propagate the idea that Obama overuses executive power and that the Democrats are advocates of "big government". God forbid the big bad government try to get something done and help people! 
"We'll kill off this legislation and restore power to the legislature! Down with (quasi-)monarchy!" is certainly something they're saying to get any sort of socially progressive immigration reform off of the floor. Grrrr...
Not to mention that the nature of executive action will nullify any and all of this when Obama is phased out of office...


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## tobi! (Nov 20, 2014)

As long as you've been breaking the law for 5 years straight, you may continue breaking the law. I wonder if they'll come out with something like that for drugs? As long as you've been sniffing blow for 5 years, you may continue to do it unabated by the government.


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## Nuclear Bingo (Nov 21, 2014)

Waste of time and money. Why the **** would the illegals want to get documented just so they can get taxed more and go through the lengthy process of becoming an american citizen? I mean seriously? How naive is obama?  And as mentioned by the earlier post, if these policies wont last whats the point? And his appeal to "America being founded on immigration" is so stupid it's funny. Yeah that was 100 years ago. We don't need illegals loading up on social programs and just bringing along all of this racial tolerance and bilingual programs and ****. Immigrants built the country. This country has been built. We don't need more people for god's sake. Thats just such a ridiculous excuse. Any job, and position held by an illegal will be replaced by just some other drone. This is all sweet and stuff but wanting to make America a special, "let's be friends and where you too can be an American" motto is destructive. But that is just not how things work. Does he think things will change? Not to mention that he thinks he can overhaul the legislation and employ laws when he wants to? Yeah right. America is going off the rails to kiss everyone's ass and i'm sick of it.


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Nuclear Bingo said:


> Waste of time and money. Why the **** would the illegals want to get documented just so they can get taxed more and go through the lengthy process of becoming an american citizen? I mean seriously? How naive is obama?  And as mentioned by the earlier post, if these policies wont last whats the point? And his appeal to "America being founded on immigration" is so stupid it's funny. Yeah that was 100 years ago. We don't need illegals loading up on social programs and just bringing along all of this racial tolerance and bilingual programs and ****. Immigrants built the country. This country has been built. We don't need more people for god's sake. Thats just such a ridiculous excuse. Any job, and position held by an illegal will be replaced by just some other drone. This is all sweet and stuff but wanting to make America a special, "let's be friends and where you too can be an American" motto is destructive. But that is just not how things work. Does he think things will change? Not to mention that he thinks he can overhaul the legislation and employ laws when he wants to? Yeah right. America is going off the rails to kiss everyone's ass and i'm sick of it.



Compared to where they might be coming from, it's a miracle. I am an immigrant, coming here with my parents at the age of 3, and a US citizen for almost 10 years now. What would you know about all this? What would you know about the conditions that those immigrants are facing back "home"? And how can you be so prejudice against them? Are they doing anything to harm you? No. They just want a better live for themselves -- for their families. And keep in mind, there are people immigrating from the US to elsewhere, just as immigrants are coming in. Are the other countries complaining? NO. Do they argue that they should be kicked out, that they shouldn't be allowed to become citizens? NO. I believe YOU to be the naive one here, not Obama. Obama is working for the welfare of the people -- currently a citizen or not -- and you're just taking advantage of it, thinking you're obligated to have it your way. That sounds really selfish of you, what you've said. He's working for the people -- for the common welfare -- NOT for the individual.

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Although, I will add this. My family and I were NOT illegal immigrants -- we were documented and had everything in order, so it's a bit of a different story. But the moral of the "story" is still the same.


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## tobi! (Nov 21, 2014)

Some people come to the US or UK and start having several kids so they can get benefits.


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Still, the same idea applies. You don't know of the living conditions that they face back "home". I, personally, come from a previously bankrupt country, just out of the Soviet occupation. Life sucked there. It still kind of does, every time I go back to visit family. There is literally nothing. The conditions here are so much better than many of the places back there, and that might prove to be the same situation for those coming in now.


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## tobi! (Nov 21, 2014)

pictureperfectLT said:


> Still, the same idea applies. You don't know of the living conditions that they face back "home". I, personally, come from a previously bankrupt country, just out of the Soviet occupation. Life sucked there. It still kind of does, every time I go back to visit family. There is literally nothing. The conditions here are so much better than many of the places back there, and that might prove to be the same situation for those coming in now.



So instead of trying to make your home country better, go to a better country so you don't have to try.


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## NewLeaf13 (Nov 21, 2014)

I absolutely hate it. It's not fair to the actually legal people here. Now, America feels more like a dictatorship instead of Democracy. I KNEW Romney would do better, I just KNEW it! It's a huge problem also, because I live in Texas, a state that's practically being invaded by illegal immigrants now.


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## f11 (Nov 21, 2014)

NewLeaf13 said:


> I absolutely hate it. It's not fair to the actually legal people here. Now, America feels more like a dictatorship instead of Democracy. I KNEW Romney would do better, I just KNEW it! It's a huge problem also, because I live in Texas, a state that's practically being invaded by illegal immigrants now.


Wasn;t America being invaded by immigrants when ya'll came from Europe


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

You do realize you can't just get a bankrupt country back on its feet with the snap of your fingers, right? These things take time. And although that was not the case back when we moved out, it's picking back up now. Sure, it's not great, but it's getting there. And it isn't at all to do with the people. The economy there itself sucks. They're transitioning to using the Euro as its national currency, because things have just turned to ****. It isn't a matter of whether or not someone "tries". The citizens have tried. The country has tried. It's not as easy as that, you know.

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NewLeaf13 said:


> I absolutely hate it. It's not fair to the actually legal people here. Now, America feels more like a dictatorship instead of Democracy. I KNEW Romney would do better, I just KNEW it! It's a huge problem also, because I live in Texas, a state that's practically being invaded by illegal immigrants now.



Why don't you just move to another state if you don't like it there? Why not Utah or something.

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Crys said:


> Wasn;t America being invaded by immigrants when ya'll came from Europe



So true. ^ There really shouldn't be any complaint of this matter at all. The exact same situation happened when this country even BECAME "America".


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## NewLeaf13 (Nov 21, 2014)

Crys said:


> Wasn;t America being invaded by immigrants when ya'll came from Europe



Well, there weren't laws back then about Illegal Immigrants.


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## tobi! (Nov 21, 2014)

If I could make a country become great again, I'd snap my fingers for America.

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5 million "authorized workers." We haven't created that many new jobs in the last five years, never mind that this exceeds his legal abilities as president by leaps and bounds. God Bless America.


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## f11 (Nov 21, 2014)

NewLeaf13 said:


> Well, there weren't laws back then about Illegal Immigrants.


 How do laws make it any different? Couldn;t they be seen as "illegal" by the natives?


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## Alolan_Apples (Nov 21, 2014)

NewLeaf13 said:


> I absolutely hate it. It's not fair to the actually legal people here. Now, America feels more like a dictatorship instead of Democracy. I KNEW Romney would do better, I just KNEW it! It's a huge problem also, because I live in Texas, a state that's practically being invaded by illegal immigrants now.



Yeah, Obama really acted like he's a dictator. He forced Obamacare through Congress, told the Supreme Court to not overturn any key point, did actions without approval (remember the prisoner swap?), and tries to get as much control as he can.


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

NewLeaf13 said:


> Well, there weren't laws back then about Illegal Immigrants.



What makes it any different from now? The same idea still applies, except that the government just sees itself as the "head honcho", the "big boss" and can control everything that goes on. Government might have been more lenient back when this country first started out, but who says that anything's changed. The fact of the matter is, is that it's unethical to put restrictions like these into place.

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Apple2012 said:


> Yeah, Obama really acted like he's a dictator. He forced Obamacare through Congress, told the Supreme Court to not overturn any key point, did actions without approval (remember the prisoner swap?), and tries to get as much control as he can.




Maybe because he's looking out for the WELFARE of the PEOPLE! That includes the homeless, the immigrants, and everything in between!


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## Alolan_Apples (Nov 21, 2014)

Crys said:


> Wasn;t America being invaded by immigrants when ya'll came from Europe



There were a lot of illegal immigrants in the 1600's. England wouldn't even let them leave England.


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## radical6 (Nov 21, 2014)

everyone in america are immigrants except the native americans so why are we complaining


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## Locket (Nov 21, 2014)

NewLeaf13 said:


> I absolutely hate it. It's not fair to the actually legal people here. Now, America feels more like a dictatorship instead of Democracy. I KNEW Romney would do better, I just KNEW it! It's a huge problem also, because I live in Texas, a state that's practically being invaded by illegal immigrants now.



Me too. Romney would do better...


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## tobi! (Nov 21, 2014)

In what way? By reinforcing the corruption of Central American nations who can just dump their poor and uneducated on the United States? By suppressing wages for unskilled labor done by Americans in the United States? By adding to the debt burden of future generations? Your "humanity" is frankly foul.


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## NewLeaf13 (Nov 21, 2014)

Crys said:


> How do laws make it any different? Couldn;t they be seen as "illegal" by the natives?



Well, yeah, but it wasn't as big of a problem then.


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## f11 (Nov 21, 2014)

justice said:


> everyone in america are immigrants except the native americans so why are we complaining


this. 

tbh like obama said in his speech, this country was built on immigrants.


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Apple2012 said:


> There were a lot of illegal immigrants in the 1600's. England wouldn't even let them leave England.



LMAO they sent their citizens here to America to begin with!!



justice said:


> everyone in america are immigrants except the native americans so why are we complaining



Exactly! I don't see why.



Norski said:


> In what way? By reinforcing the corruption of Central American nations who can just dump their poor and uneducated on the United States? By suppressing wages for unskilled labor done by Americans in the United States? By adding to the debt burden of future generations? Your "humanity" is frankly foul.



If Americans are complaining about lack of jobs, how about they actually GO and LOOK for a job? Those immigrants take those low-wage, hard-labor jobs because no one else wants to. No one else sees themselves fit to do something like that. They see it as a pitiful career, like they're so much better fit for another job.



Crys said:


> this.
> 
> tbh like obama said in his speech, this country was built on immigrants.



They might have known if the national stations like ABC, NBC, FOX, etc. actually aired Obama's speech instead of their stupid dramas.


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## Alolan_Apples (Nov 21, 2014)

pictureperfectLT said:


> If Americans are complaining about lack of jobs, how about they actually GO and LOOK for a job? Those immigrants take those low-wage, hard-labor jobs because no one else wants to. No one else sees themselves fit to do something like that. They see it as a pitiful career, like they're so much better fit for another jobs.



That reminds me of a South Park episode. The future people kept taking everybody's jobs, and the government allows them to live in present-day America.


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Apple2012 said:


> That reminds me of a South Park episode. The future people kept taking everybody's jobs, and the government allows them to live in present-day America.



Honestly, as stupid as some of those episodes may be, some of them actually prove a point.
But all in all, it's true when I say that most people wouldn't want the types of jobs that the immigrants take. Those people see themselves as "too good" for a position like that.


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## tobi! (Nov 21, 2014)

pictureperfectLT said:


> Honestly, as stupid as some of those episodes may be, some of them actually prove a point.
> But all in all, it's true when I say that most people wouldn't want the types of jobs that the immigrants take. Those people see themselves as "too good" for a position like that.



You think every immigrant is going to get a job.
They won't sit down and take in benefits because... they're "good" people?


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## f11 (Nov 21, 2014)

Norski said:


> You think every immigrant is going to get a job.
> They won't sit down and take in benefits because... they're "good" people?


pls explain the benefits you speak of.


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## Alolan_Apples (Nov 21, 2014)

I don't think all illegals are bad. I only disapprove of the ones who joined America for welfare or to do other crimes.


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Norski said:


> You think every immigrant is going to get a job.
> They won't sit down and take in benefits because... they're "good" people?



Sure, there are the "bad" immigrants. But are all of them like that? No. Should restrictions be put into place because of those bad apples? No. If that were the case, then why not do something similar for the US citizens who AREN'T / WEREN'T immigrants. There are plenty of Americans that sit on their ***es all day and don't work, don't do anything to benefit the country. Why don't we put any restrictions against them? What makes them any different?



Apple2012 said:


> I don't think all illegals are bad. I only disapprove of the ones who joined America for welfare or to do other crimes.



Agreed. I see your point.


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## Gnome (Nov 21, 2014)

Nuclear Bingo said:


> We don't need illegals ... bringing along all of this racial tolerance



Racial tolerance is bad? Since when?

lol, politics.


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Gnome said:


> Racial tolerance is bad? Since when?



I suppose they're set on being prejudice, whether or not they realize it.


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## tobi! (Nov 21, 2014)

Apple2012 said:


> I don't think all illegals are bad. I only disapprove of the ones who joined America for welfare or to do other crimes.



Yeah, I know a girl who is illegal and her parents are too but they eventually became citizens. They do work hard and she is a very nice girl. 
I'm only against if they take public benefits (such as child or single mother).


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## Princess (Nov 21, 2014)

Why don't you guys just work on applying for refugee status....


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## tobi! (Nov 21, 2014)

pictureperfectLT said:


> I suppose they're set on being prejudice, whether or not they realize it.



Don't act so high and mighty, princess.
Everyone has an opinion and their own experiences and thoughts.


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Norski said:


> Don't act so high and mighty, princess.
> Everyone has an opinion and their own experiences and thoughts.



I'm not acting "high and mighty". I'm stating my own opinions, as I have a right to do. I'm just simply saying that there is a word for the way that they were acting: "prejudiced". If you don't want to accept that, then by all means, please do so. I'm not forcing it upon you or anything. I'm just simply stating it.


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## Alolan_Apples (Nov 21, 2014)

Gnome said:


> Racial tolerance is bad? Since when?



Never. Racial tolerance is a good idea, but do not pull the race card on issues where no racism is involved.


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## tobi! (Nov 21, 2014)

pictureperfectLT said:


> I'm not acting "high and mighty". I'm stating my own opinions, as I have a right to do. I'm just simply saying that there is a word for the way that they were acting: "prejudiced". If you don't want to accept that, then by all means, please do so. I'm not forcing it upon you or anything. I'm just simply stating it.



Who is "they"?
Couldn't I argue that you're being a little narrow-minded yourself when you talk to the opposing debaters?


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Apple2012 said:


> Never. Racial tolerance is a good idea, but do not pull the race card on issues where no racism is involved.



But Nuclear Bingo was the first to bring it up, saying that as the immigrants come along, so does the racial tolerance. And they're implying it negatively, as they mentioned not "needing" more immigrants here in the US.

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Nuclear Bingo said:


> We don't need illegals loading up on social programs and just bringing along all of this racial tolerance and bilingual programs and ****.





Gnome said:


> Racial tolerance is bad? Since when?
> 
> lol, politics.



I was in response to Gnome, who brought up a sentence from Nuclear Bingo's post


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## Princess (Nov 21, 2014)

y'all need to stop treating this like it's black and white.

yeah there's a huge issue with illegal immigrants, but going at it this way is a joke.


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Norski said:


> Couldn't I argue that you're being a little narrow-minded yourself when you talk to the opposing debaters?



I'm not being narrow-minded. I'm only trying to give the POV of a person who was an immigrant herself, along with her family. Something that most people wouldn't know of.


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## Alolan_Apples (Nov 21, 2014)

Princess said:


> y'all need to stop treating this like it's black and white.
> 
> yeah there's a huge issue with illegal immigrants, but going at it this way is a joke.



People are always going to take issues like this seriously. According to one of my blog entries, I'm on both sides of the debate.


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## Princess (Nov 21, 2014)

Apple2012 said:


> People are always going to take issues like this seriously. According to one of my blog entries, I'm on both sides of the debate.



That's..what I said they should do though? People just automatically jump to the gun if you say you're not in favour, saying you're being racist etc blah blah, like no..that's not even the issue.

Edit: this goes hand in hand with slacktivisim tbh.


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## tobi! (Nov 21, 2014)

You guys remember the abortion thread?


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## Alolan_Apples (Nov 21, 2014)

Norski said:


> You guys remember the abortion thread?



I do believe that we're going in that direction. We better make the right turn or we will see that happen again.

On topic: like I said, I'm on both sides of the debate. One side is that I agree they can be harmful, but not all of them are bad.


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## Mino (Nov 21, 2014)

Nuclear Bingo said:


> Waste of time and money. Why the **** would the illegals want to get documented just so they can get taxed more and go through the lengthy process of becoming an american citizen? I mean seriously? How naive is
> obama?


Because then they can stop living in fear of deportation. Because they actually have aspirations to become American citizens. Not every illegal alien is a freeloader sucking your parents' money away, friend.



Nuclear Bingo said:


> And as mentioned by the earlier post, if these policies wont last whats the point?


Congress is deadlocked, so it's better than nothing in the eyes of the administration. Duh. I thought that point was ****ing obvious.



Nuclear Bingo said:


> And his appeal to "America being founded on immigration" is so stupid it's funny. Yeah that was 100 years ago.


Welp. You were sure close with that figure.



Nuclear Bingo said:


> We don't need illegals loading up on social programs and just bringing along all of this racial tolerance and bilingual programs and ****.


Did you really just deride racial tolerance? Haha, what the hell is going on here.



Nuclear Bingo said:


> Immigrants built the country. This country has been built. We don't need more people for god's sake. Thats just such a ridiculous excuse.


Yes, because a society gets "built" and then completely stops once it's built. We can all have cushy service-sector jobs now. Yipee.



Nuclear Bingo said:


> Any job, and position held by an illegal will be replaced by just some other drone. This is all sweet and stuff but wanting to make America a special, "let's be friends and where you too can be an American" motto is destructive. But that is just not how things work. Does he think things will change?


God damn your sentences are making my head hurt. Are you saying that we shouldn't allow people to naturalize? Is that it? Or that we should, just not be nice to them about it? As for whether he thinks things will change, I'd say probably.



Nuclear Bingo said:


> Not to mention that he thinks he can overhaul the legislation and employ laws when he wants to? Yeah right. America is going off the rails to kiss everyone's ass and i'm sick of it.


Well he's not actually overhauling legislation, he's telling congress to do that while he goes around them. If you want to critique the use of executive order as a law-making tool go right ahead, just know that you'll probably find plenty of cases where it was employed for political causes YOU YOURSELF support.

Oh, and if you don't like it, you can GET DER HELL URT.

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I'm sure people in the previous pages have pointed this out before:

If you really want to avoid all these immigrants from Latin America, stop supporting policies that turn their home countries into ****holes.


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Mino said:


> Because then they can stop living in fear of deportation. Because they actually have aspirations to become American citizens. Not every illegal alien is a freeloader sucking your parents' money away, friend.
> 
> 
> Congress is deadlocked, so it's better than nothing in the eyes of the administration. Duh. I thought that point was ****ing obvious.
> ...



This post made me laugh. You're amazing haha props to you
Awesome signature, by the way lol


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## oath2order (Nov 21, 2014)

Apple2012 said:


> Yeah, Obama really acted like he's a dictator. He forced Obamacare through Congress, told the Supreme Court to not overturn any key point, did actions without approval (remember the prisoner swap?), and tries to get as much control as he can.



do you remember the time when the House was Republican controlled and still passed the Affordable Healthcare Act.



NewLeaf13 said:


> I absolutely hate it. It's not fair to the actually legal people here. Now, America feels more like a dictatorship instead of Democracy. I KNEW Romney would do better, I just KNEW it! It's a huge problem also, because I live in Texas, a state that's practically being invaded by illegal immigrants now.











Norski said:


> You guys remember the abortion thread?



Which one? There was the good one. Then there was pally's.


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## Mino (Nov 21, 2014)

oath2order said:


> do you remember the time when the House was Republican controlled and still passed the Affordable Healthcare Act.



That passed before the Republicans took the house in 2010.


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## oath2order (Nov 21, 2014)

Mino said:


> That passed before the Republicans took the house in 2010.



Did it? Huh. Thought it was more recent.


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## Mino (Nov 21, 2014)

oath2order said:


> Did it? Huh. Thought it was more recent.



Yeh. They lost the House majority in the 2010 election for the 112th Congress, which began in 2011.


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## SuperVandal (Nov 21, 2014)

this thread makes my head hurt from the ignorance of so many people

like uh
immigrants are living breathing human beings, in case y'all forgot.


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## Lassy (Nov 21, 2014)

Norski said:


> So instead of trying to make your home country better, go to a better country so you don't have to try.



I agree with this.
Although life may be terrible in your country or whatever, I find it best to stay in your country.
When my grandparents were younger, the conditions were terrible in France.  For instance, My grandpa lived in a very poor family, and they only ate bread. However, he never desired to go the USA or a richer country. There was WWII at that time, he lost a friend because of the bombings. That never made him leave his country. 

I don't know... But I find it very saddening that many people just run away from their country. If you guys know "the memory of Love" of Aminatta Forna, the book shows well that it is better to stay in your country. Kai (a guy in the book) wanted to go to the USA, but at the end decides to stay in Sierra Leone which I believe is the best solution.


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## SuperVandal (Nov 21, 2014)

Lassy said:


> I agree with this.
> Although life may be terrible in your country or whatever, I find it best to stay in your country.
> When my grandparents were younger, the conditions were terrible in France.  For instance, My grandpa lived in a very poor family, and they only ate bread. However, he never desired to go the USA or a richer country. There was WWII at that time, he lost a friend because of the bombings. That never made him leave his country.
> 
> I don't know... But I find it very saddening that many people just run away from their country. If you guys know "the memory of Love" of Aminatta Forna, the book shows well that it is better to stay in your country. Kai (a guy in the book) wanted to go to the USA, but at the end decides to stay in Sierra Leone which I believe is the best solution.



and why exactly should people be forced to stay in a country they have no desire to be a part of simply because they were born there? why should people be required to follow this obligation, especially when every day they live in fear of being murdered by rebels/terrorists/smugglers/whatever in their own homes. why should people be subjugated to live in fear of *living*? in most cases, like the case with my parents, people move to different countries to run away from poor living wages and corruption within governments. 

you can't expect, nor force, people to stay in a single spot throughout their entire life. the whole idea of multiple civilizations came from the widespread movement of humans across multiple continents. in theory, you can say we were born with the instinct to disperse to different areas. this is no different here. there is no singular "best" solution as you have mentioned. each individual has different needs and wants. instead of projecting your needs and wants onto other people, maybe it'd help in the long run if you supported and offered assistance to people who need that sort of direction in their life.


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## KarlaKGB (Nov 21, 2014)

SuperVandal said:


> and why exactly should people be forced to stay in a country they have no desire to be a part of simply because they were born there? why should people be required to follow this obligation, especially when every day they live in fear of being murdered by rebels/terrorists/smugglers/whatever in their own homes. why should people be subjugated to live in fear of *living*? in most cases, like the case with my parents, people move to different countries to run away from poor living wages and corruption within governments.
> 
> you can't expect, nor force, people to stay in a single spot throughout their entire life. the whole idea of multiple civilizations came from the widespread movement of humans across multiple continents. in theory, you can say we were born with the instinct to disperse to different areas. this is no different here. there is no singular "best" solution as you have mentioned. each individual has different needs and wants. instead of projecting your needs and wants onto other people, maybe it'd help in the long run if you supported and offered assistance to people who need that sort of direction in their life.



wud u let someone move into ur house because they wanted to?


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## nammie (Nov 21, 2014)

omg @ the comments in this thread

all I can say is I'm glad I live in canada and not the usa damn


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## lazuli (Nov 21, 2014)

NewLeaf13 said:


> I absolutely hate it. It's not fair to the actually legal people here. Now, America feels more like a dictatorship instead of Democracy. I KNEW Romney would do better, I just KNEW it! It's a huge problem also, because I live in Texas, a state that's practically being invaded by illegal immigrants now.



i assume you live in northern texas???

E:


SuperVandal said:


> this thread makes my head hurt from the ignorance of so many people
> 
> like uh
> immigrants are living breathing human beings, in case y'all forgot.



same HAHAHA.


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## Gandalf (Nov 21, 2014)

We've had to delete several posts in here due to their lack of content and quality. Please keep the following rules in mind before you post otherwise the thread will have to be closed:
*
Be sure your forum posts actually contribute to the topic being discussed.
Posts that contain solely "Lol", "This", GIF/image replies, or other short remarks are usually better suited for chatrooms than forum discussions.
Keep your posts coherent and try your best to use good grammar.
*


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## M O L K O (Nov 21, 2014)

I love when people complain and pull the 'ugh illegal immgrants are just going to take jobs from us *legal* americans'

ok like 1rst. none of ya'll are legal tbqfh when we stole this land from the native americans come on don't act like ya'll forgot your 5th grade history class now.

2nd what jobs?!?! Oh you mean the ones where the employers pay under the table and not even at min. wage for work that no one else is willing to do?? 

oh ok.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Nuclear Bingo said:


> Waste of time and money. Why the **** would the illegals want to get documented just so they can get taxed more and go through the lengthy process of becoming an american citizen? I mean seriously? How naive is obama?  And as mentioned by the earlier post, if these policies wont last whats the point? A*nd his appeal to "America being founded on immigration" is so stupid it's funny*. *Yeah that was 100 years ago. We don't need illegals loading up on social programs and just bringing along all of this racial tolerance and bilingual programs* and ****. Immigrants built the country. This country has been built. We don't need more people for god's sake. *Thats just such a ridiculous excuse. Any job, and position held by an illegal will be replaced by just some other drone.* This is all sweet and stuff but wanting to make America a special, "let's be friends and where you too can be an American" motto is destructive. But that is just not how things work. Does he think things will change? Not to mention that he thinks he can overhaul the legislation and employ laws when he wants to? Yeah right. America is going off the rails to kiss everyone's ass and i'm sick of it.



I'm scared to ask but...what would you rather? Deport all the immigrants and make america into some purified country of just whites that were here *'legally*', well damn I wonder if thats ever been done before...oh wait.


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## Reindeer (Nov 21, 2014)

I'm not gonna get involved with the debate some people are having, since I honestly don't give a lick about US politics when keeping in mind how screwed up the entire country is. There's just one thing I keep seeing mentioned that really bothers me.



Zoraluv said:


> ok like 1rst. none of ya'll are legal tbqfh when we stole this land from the native americans come on don't act like ya'll forgot your 5th grade history class now.


This is not to you specifically, since you're not the only one saying it.

I see how this could be taken as a fair point, but people in the thread before have said that modern policies were not in place then. Native Americans could have been treated better of course, but guilting the descendants with those happenings is about as logical as calling someone out on their skin color.

That's not even mentioning the fact that a lot of countries we have today would not exist in that form were it not for a certain group of people deciding to go there and take it over from whoever lived there already. Think of countries like Australia, a bunch of southern African nations, Japan, the UK. Yet once it comes to the US everybody's like "but the Native Americans".

If people in the US are gonna be seen as illegal because of their ancestors, then I'm sorry but basically everybody in the entire world could be seen as illegal.


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## Brackets (Nov 21, 2014)

Lassy said:


> I agree with this.
> Although life may be terrible in your country or whatever, I find it best to stay in your country.
> When my grandparents were younger, the conditions were terrible in France.  For instance, My grandpa lived in a very poor family, and they only ate bread. However, he never desired to go the USA or a richer country. There was WWII at that time, he lost a friend because of the bombings. That never made him leave his country.
> 
> I don't know... But I find it very saddening that many people just run away from their country. If you guys know "the memory of Love" of Aminatta Forna, the book shows well that it is better to stay in your country. Kai (a guy in the book) wanted to go to the USA, but at the end decides to stay in Sierra Leone which I believe is the best solution.



I bet you'd think differently if you lived in Syria or Afghanistan etc.


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## cIementine (Nov 21, 2014)

immigrants come to countries like UK and US for a better quality of life, but if they're going to get that quality of life, I believe they should do so legally. If they do so illegally, I think the situation should be viewed like most crimes: Those who steal, kill, or break the law should be punished.


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## Meadows (Nov 21, 2014)

I live in America, and honestly I don't care. Obama sucks and always will.


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## Cory (Nov 21, 2014)

No. Kick them all out.


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## oath2order (Nov 21, 2014)

Wendy Marvell said:


> I live in America, and honestly I don't care. Obama sucks and always will.



So theoretically if he ended all suffering universally he would still suck?


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## princessmorgan (Nov 21, 2014)

People are complaining about immigrants coming and taking their jobs, but they're doing jobs you don't want to do! Like in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXUdozfL7iM. Come on guys. I am a moderate so I can see points on both sides of the spectrum and disagree with points on both sides. Let's think of this from a humanitarian point of view. Do we save them or let them die? I can understand trying to block the really bad guys like drug lords and distributors, but regular people trying to do well for their families is ridiculous. I have a family of my own and have thought about moving to Korea to give my kids a better chance at being bilingual or polyglots and get better educations, but to think I would be shunned or denied based on the sheer fact that I come from another country is appalling. No wonder other countries hate Americans. I can see how this generation is being brought up with a sense of entitlement by reading some of your answers. America is not only yours. What if the Native Americans told all of us to gtfo?


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## Mairen (Nov 21, 2014)

I think it's a nice thing he's done. If people have been living in the US for 5 years, chances are they have a pretty stable life set up somewhere. Just knocking on their door, tearing them away from their home and telling them "lolz good luck bai" is kind of harsh. No, I don't agree with people coming and living there illegally, but if they are already in the country and set up and living, why not give them this chance? Lets just try to put a stop to illegal immigration from now on.

Love everyone and give them a chance at a better life ^__^ Everyone should be welcomed if they want to try to do this legally.


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## lazuli (Nov 21, 2014)

my dads been in the US for at LEAST 20 years 'illegally' and he became a US citizen a year or two ago.
kinda off topic, but hed tell us how hed walked a REALLY LONG WAY through mexico and crossed the rio grande on a raft of some sort.


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## M O L K O (Nov 21, 2014)

princessmorgan said:


> People are complaining about immigrants coming and taking their jobs, but they're doing jobs you don't want to do! Like in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXUdozfL7iM. Come on guys. I am a moderate so I can see points on both sides of the spectrum and disagree with points on both sides. Let's think of this from a humanitarian point of view. Do we save them or let them die? I can understand trying to block the really bad guys like drug lords and distributors, but regular people trying to do well for their families is ridiculous. I have a family of my own and have thought about moving to Korea to give my kids a better chance at being bilingual or polyglots and get better educations, but to think I would be shunned or denied based on the sheer fact that I come from another country is appalling. No wonder other countries hate Americans. I can see how this generation is being brought up with a sense of entitlement by reading some of your answers. America is not only yours. *What if the Native Americans told all of us to gtfo?*



Well, to be fair, they kinda did.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Reindeer said:


> I'm not gonna get involved with the debate some people are having, since I honestly don't give a lick about US politics when keeping in mind how screwed up the entire country is. There's just one thing I keep seeing mentioned that really bothers me.
> 
> 
> This is not to you specifically, since you're not the only one saying it.
> ...



You do understand that they were basically sliced up and fed to rich european countries to do their hard work (Rubber, silver, cotton, etc..) and were colonized for the sake of fueling imperialism right?!?

I mean ..cuz the congos totally didn't fund what u ppl call belgium at all. 

and as for the uk and japan I'm unsure how to answer that properly as I don't know my facts. I would like some sources on japan since as far as I know they were never colonized, I think you may be talking about china and even then...


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## Reindeer (Nov 21, 2014)

Zoraluv said:


> You do understand that they were basically sliced up and fed to rich european countries to do their hard work (Rubber, silver, cotton, etc..) and were colonized for the sake of fueling imperialism right?!?
> 
> I mean ..cuz the congos totally didn't fund what u ppl call belgium at all.
> 
> and as for the uk and japan I'm unsure how to answer that properly as I don't know my facts. I would like some sources on japan since as far as I know they were never colonized, I think you may be talking about china and even then...


In South Africa there was apartheid until the 90s, and in Australia the aboriginals were treated like trash until the 80s/90s. This includes many atrocities that you wouldn't wish on any human being. It was their land and it was taken from them, yet the amount of people I see saying "pls go australians" is incredibly tiny compared to the amount of people saying "pls go amerikunz".

As for Japan, think of something more recent. They were largely in isolation until WWII and subsequently invaded by the US. The US imposed a lot of laws on the country which are still in place today. I wasn't speaking strictly about invading a country and living there for the rest of eternity - the countries in the UK weren't invaded since 1066 yet the countries (and languages) were still largely and directly influenced by people like the French royals of the time.

You can't force people to feel bad about the actions of their ancestors, especially when you're talking about something that happened 300-400 years ago. Again, it's like judging people based on their skin color. They didn't choose to be born like that, so what gives you the right to judge them based on it?


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## M O L K O (Nov 21, 2014)

Reindeer said:


> *In South Africa there was apartheid until the 90s, and in Australia the aboriginals were treated like trash until the 80s/90s. This includes many atrocities that you wouldn't wish on any human being. It was their land and it was taken from them, *yet the amount of people I see saying "pls go australians" is incredibly tiny compared to the amount of people saying "pls go amerikunz".
> 
> As for Japan, think of something more recent. They were largely in isolation until WWII and subsequently invaded by the US. The US imposed a lot of laws on the country which are still in place today. I wasn't speaking strictly about invading a country and living there for the rest of eternity - the countries in the UK weren't invaded since 1066 yet the countries (and languages) were still largely and directly influenced by people like the French royals of the time.
> 
> You can't force people to feel bad about the actions of their ancestors, especially when you're talking about something that happened 300-400 years ago. Again, it's like judging people based on their skin color. They didn't choose to be born like that, so what gives you the right to judge them based on it?



I agree with this and even the japan part as well, however I think this debate is more about immigration and not the laws other countries have restricted on them (which could go on forever lbr) Nonetheless I see your point on those issues. 

I don't know where you live exactly but these actions of ancestors is bs, the descendents still benefit from the crimes their ancestors dealt. This is why **** that happened 300-400 years ago is still very much relevant. When we have native americans being used as mascots, blackface still being used, cops committing brutality and then protestors being treated like animals..its even more evident that these descendants are fully aware of their position and take full advantage of it. We, in america treat immigrants as if they're second class citizens when just 100 years ago, we were the immigrants. Tell me how is that fair? 
I can't speak for australia, the countries in africa, and japan (tho if the point is just laws and not immigration I don't believe they're a part of this) However if have immigrants coming in to their country and they act disgraceful I think they should take a reflection into their own countries past as you're right, we are basically all 'illegal here' how the hell can we pin down people to a certain location?


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## oath2order (Nov 21, 2014)

Zoraluv so what you're saying is even 300-400 years later we still need to atone for the crimes of our ancestors?


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## Reindeer (Nov 21, 2014)

Zoraluv said:


> I agree with this and even the japan part as well, however I think this debate is more about immigration and not the laws other countries have restricted on them (which could go on forever lbr) Nonetheless I see your point on those issues.
> 
> I don't know where you live exactly but these actions of ancestors is bs, the descendents still benefit from the crimes their ancestors dealt. This is why **** that happened 300-400 years ago is still very much relevant. When we have native americans being used as mascots, blackface still being used, cops committing brutality and then protestors being treated like animals..its even more evident that these descendants are fully aware of their position and take full advantage of it. We, in america treat immigrants as if they're second class citizens when just 100 years ago, we were the immigrants. Tell me how is that fair?
> I can't speak for australia, the countries in africa, and japan (tho if the point is just laws and not immigration I don't believe they're a part of this) However if have immigrants coming in to their country and they act disgraceful I think they should take a reflection into their own countries past as you're right, *we are basically all 'illegal here' how the hell can we pin down people to a certain location?*


If you agree that people can't be pinned to one specific geolocation, then I think you'll see how forcing people to carry the burden of their ancestor's actions becomes a bit much. The world we live in was built on these conquests, the examples I gave were just some of the more recent ones. Think of all the great conquerors, the empires that once existed, and think of how that shaped human history. You'll come to see that everybody has guilty ancestors somewhere in their bloodline.

If you want people to atone for their ancestors' crimes, then humankind will become slaves to apology.


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)

hello race-neutral america


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Wow I missed a lot while I was asleep... Anywho



SuperVandal said:


> and why exactly should people be forced to stay in a country they have no desire to be a part of simply because they were born there? why should people be required to follow this obligation, especially when every day they live in fear of being murdered by rebels/terrorists/smugglers/whatever in their own homes. why should people be subjugated to live in fear of *living*? in most cases, like the case with my parents, people move to different countries to run away from poor living wages and corruption within governments.
> 
> you can't expect, nor force, people to stay in a single spot throughout their entire life. the whole idea of multiple civilizations came from the widespread movement of humans across multiple continents. in theory, you can say we were born with the instinct to disperse to different areas. this is no different here. there is no singular "best" solution as you have mentioned. each individual has different needs and wants. instead of projecting your needs and wants onto other people, maybe it'd help in the long run if you supported and offered assistance to people who need that sort of direction in their life.



THIS. I agree with this so much.



KarlaKGB said:


> wud u let someone move into ur house because they wanted to?



That's the thing, though. They're not moving into your house. They're not bothering you in any way. They're off doing their own thing, working towards a better life. In no way is it affecting you. In no way is it being "forced" upon you.


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)

pictureperfectLT said:


> Wow I missed a lot while I was asleep... Anywho
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Even though I'm not American, it has a huge affect on you, depending on your financial status, i,e if you're unemployed and seeking work. Odds are you'll be competing against immigrants that are willing to work more hours for lower pay.


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## M O L K O (Nov 21, 2014)

oath2order said:


> Zoraluv so what you're saying is even 300-400 years later we still need to atone for the crimes of our ancestors?


No, the point I'm trying to make is that people still benefit from these crimes. The decedents from the ancestors who were victimized are still dealing with anguish yet we feel free to turn a blind eye. We don't need to atone for the crimes but we do need to realize what our ancestors did (and more than what your white painted history text book will let you in on) and work towards a goal of equality. 


Reindeer said:


> If you agree that people can't be pinned to one specific geolocation, then I think you'll see how forcing people to carry the burden of their ancestor's actions becomes a bit much. *The world we live in was built on these conquests*, the examples I gave were just some of the more recent ones. Think of all the great conquerors, the empires that once existed, and think of how that shaped human history. You'll come to see that everybody has guilty ancestors somewhere in their bloodline.
> 
> If you want people to atone for their ancestors' crimes, then humankind will become slaves to apology.



At what cost? We have to understand that ancestors have put people through trials that their descendants still feel the effects of. This has really gotten off the subject of immigration. I still think that immigrants should be able to move to america or anywhere else, and vice versa.


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Jarrad said:


> Even though I'm not American, it has a huge affect on you, depending on your financial status, i,e if you're unemployed and seeking work. Odds are you'll be competing against immigrants that are willing to work more hours for lower pay.



Depends what type of work you're going for. Because even those who are unemployed won't go for the jobs that they see themselves "unfit" to work for. I'm going to get a bit personal here, now. My father went back to school and earned his Bachelor's Degree. He's still looking for a job. He's had countless job offers for a draftsman (which is what he was before he went to school), but refuses them all because he says that's what he went to school for in the first place. It's the exact same situation. Those who are unemployed don't even THINK to go for the types of low-wage, hard-labor jobs that immigrants take because they're too "good" for them.


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)

pictureperfectLT said:


> Depends what type of work you're going for. Because even those who are unemployed won't go for the jobs that they see themselves "unfit" to work for. I'm going to get a bit personal here, now. My father went back to school and earned his Bachelor's Degree. He's still looking for a job. He's had countless job offers for a draftsman (which is what he was before he went to school), but refuses them all because he says that's what he went to school for in the first place. It's the exact same situation. Those who are unemployed don't even THINK to go for the types of low-wage, hard-labor jobs that immigrants take because they're too "good" for them.



Actually, the large majority of the unemployed go for ANY job they can find. At the end of the day, money is money. I'd do a lot of things just to earn some cash, and if that comes at the cost of exposing myself to a hard-labour job or something which others would find humiliating, then so be it. It all really depends on how badly you want a job, it really does. 

But yeah, immigration = more people living in America, which means less employment opportunities. Combined with a huge list of other implications relating to over-popularity.

A lot of people here are just looking at the racial/social aspects of immigration. Ya'll need to look at everything. Socio-cultural impacts, economical impacts, environmental etc. Can America really afford to harbour more civilians?


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## samsquared (Nov 21, 2014)

NewLeaf13 said:


> I absolutely hate it. It's not fair to the actually legal people here. Now, America feels more like a dictatorship instead of Democracy. I KNEW Romney would do better, I just KNEW it! It's a huge problem also, because I live in Texas, a state that's practically being invaded by illegal immigrants now.



Well, the whole reason that they're here illegally in the first place is because the immigration process is long and ridiculously hard to get through and some requirements bar certain people from entering the process at all. For others, the already molasses speed process is exacerbated in an attempt to keep them from immigrating for plenty of reasons, some of which are just not very good (Arizona). 
Some states (Arizona) have what I would call abhorrent immigration policies (Arizona) that are borderline reactionary a la Alabama and Virginia right after Brown v Board. 
America is supposed to be a nation that expands its opportunities for equal participation, representation, and fraternisation as much as possible. That much is necessary for us to be truly free. _We can talk about your liberties once I have my rights!_



Apple2012 said:


> That reminds me of a South Park episode. The future people kept taking everybody's jobs, and the government allows them to live in present-day America.



Also, the point of this episode was to show us that we should try to better Mexico and make life with a family and kids sustainable there without a farm or a drug farm or a meth lab or a sweet maquiladora gig. Maybe they wouldn't have to be poor here and drug pushers there if we tried to assist their economy... but of course, that takes time and effort on our part.


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)




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## M O L K O (Nov 21, 2014)

Jarrad said:


> Actually, the large majority of the unemployed go for ANY job they can find. At the end of the day, money is money. I'd do a lot of things just to earn some cash, and if that comes at the cost of exposing myself to a hard-labour job or something which others would find humiliating, then so be it. It all really depends on how badly you want a job, it really does.
> 
> But yeah, immigration = more people living in America, which means less employment opportunities. Combined with a huge list of other implications relating to over-popularity.
> 
> A lot of people here are just looking at the racial/social aspects of immigration. Ya'll need to look at everything. Socio-cultural impacts, economical impacts, environmental etc. Can America really afford to harbour more civilians?



Do you know how many unoccupied homes there are in America? jw


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Jarrad said:


> Actually, the large majority of the unemployed go for ANY job they can find. At the end of the day, money is money. I'd do a lot of things just to earn some cash, and if that comes at the cost of exposing myself to a hard-labour job or something which others would find humiliating, then so be it. It all really depends on how badly you want a job, it really does.
> 
> But yeah, immigration = more people living in America, which means less employment opportunities. Combined with a huge list of other implications relating to over-popularity.
> 
> A lot of people here are just looking at the racial/social aspects of immigration. Ya'll need to look at everything. Socio-cultural impacts, economical impacts, environmental etc. Can America really afford to harbour more civilians?



But don't forget -- just as immigrants are coming IN to the country, there are people moving OUT. And honestly, my boyfriend and I will be doing just that once we finish up our Bachelor's Degrees here. It sucks here, it really does. I'm not going to lie. This country is beyond capitalistic. It's just ridiculous. We pay so much for an education here, whereas it's little to no cost in Europe. It's all about money here.


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## M O L K O (Nov 21, 2014)

Jarrad said:


>



Such a cute selfie of u


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)

Zoraluv said:


> Do you know how many unoccupied homes there are in America? jw



Not a clue. I live in Britain, where we are suffering from a mass over population.


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## samsquared (Nov 21, 2014)

lol America is not overpopulated
the world is overpopulated, but that's a different matter


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)

pictureperfectLT said:


> But don't forget -- just as immigrants are coming IN to the country, there are people moving OUT. And honestly, my boyfriend and I will be doing just that once we finish up our Bachelor's Degrees here. It sucks here, it really does. I'm not going to lie. This country is beyond capitalistic. It's just ridiculous. We pay so much for an education here, whereas it's little to no cost in Europe. It's all about money here.



Ironic lol. When I've finished my uni degree here I was planning on moving to America. We should just switch houses!


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Jarrad said:


> Ironic lol. When I've finished my uni degree here I was planning on moving to America. We should just switch houses!



We were thinking more along the lines of Denmark haha Eastern Europe is where it's at imo


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)

pictureperfectLT said:


> We were thinking more along the lines of Denmark haha Eastern Europe is where it's at imo



Oh yeah!
Is it Denmark where students don't have to pay a tuition fee for uni? 

How bad is Canada?


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Jarrad said:


> Oh yeah!
> Is it Denmark where students don't have to pay a tuition fee for uni?
> 
> How bad is Canada?



There are many countries that don't have tuition fees. From what I know, majority (if not all) of the countries a part of the EU have free education for EU citizens. (I'm Lithuanian. If I still had my Lithuanian citizenship -- which I don't, since they don't allow dual-citizenship -- then I could essentially go to almost any European country I wanted and have housing and a free education)

I wouldn't know about Canada lol I've visited very little of Canada


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)

England has tuition fees :/ 
What are you studying?


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

I'll be going into pharmacy


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## NewLeaf13 (Nov 21, 2014)

This is what I would show to ALL immigrants.


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

NewLeaf13 said:


> This is what I would show to ALL immigrants.
> View attachment 75284



It would be helpful / respectful for them to learn English, I'll say that much. But I wouldn't tell them to go and forget their own culture / heritage. (Not that I'm implying that you are  more so, I'm js)


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## Reindeer (Nov 21, 2014)

Zoraluv said:


> At what cost? We have to understand that ancestors have put people through trials that their descendants still feel the effects of. This has really gotten off the subject of immigration. I still think that immigrants should be able to move to america or anywhere else, and vice versa.


You talk about the effects of the trials these people have been put through, and focus on things that are relatively recent (historically speaking). My point there was that if the Europeans taking over the US was so bad, then the rest of the world should feel bad as well. Descendants all over the world still feel the effects of what their descendants have been put through, because they live in countries that quite literally would not exist had those conquests not happened.

Let's say your father murdered somebody. With your logic of descendants having to atone, then you should be in jail, and your children, and your children's children, and so on. It makes no sense.
The same applies to when it's a larger group of people, because as far as I know, the European descendants currently living in the US never made the decision to cross the Atlantic. They were simply born there, and you decide that's enough reason to tell them that one of their birth rights is apologizing for what their great-great-great grandfathers did.

Guilt is not hereditary, and the people that committed those acts are long dead.

- - - Post Merge - - -



NewLeaf13 said:


> This is what I would show to ALL immigrants.
> View attachment 75284


It might be a problem due to the size of the country, but it might do the US well to introduce what we have here in the Netherlands. When people decide to immigrate here they have to go through a test where they learn about the history of the country, as well as the basic language. It's helped a lot for getting them jobs.


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Reindeer said:


> It might be a problem due to the size of the country, but it might do the US well to introduce what we have here in the Netherlands. When people decide to immigrate here they have to go through a test where they learn about the history of the country, as well as the basic language. It's helped a lot for getting them jobs.



That's all part of the test in order to get citizenship here. You have to be proficient in the language, know about the history, etc. I remember my parents having to do that when they went to get their citizenship up in Olympia.


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)

pictureperfectLT said:


> I'll be going into pharmacy



Ohh! I'm going into business management.


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## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

Jarrad said:


> Ohh! I'm going into business management.



Very nice


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)

pictureperfectLT said:


> Very nice


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## Liquid Ocelot (Nov 21, 2014)

NewLeaf13 said:


> This is what I would show to ALL immigrants.
> View attachment 75284








You should try to learn the language of a country you are immigrating to, but it should not be required.


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)

Liquid Ocelot said:


> You should try to learn the language of a country you are immigrating to, but it should not be required.








I totally agree


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## M O L K O (Nov 21, 2014)

Reindeer said:


> You talk about the effects of the trials these people have been put through, and focus on things that are relatively recent (historically speaking). My point there was that if the Europeans taking over the US was so bad, then the rest of the world should feel bad as well. Descendants all over the world still feel the effects of what their descendants have been put through, *because they live in countries that quite literally would not exist had those conquests not happened.
> *
> Let's say your father murdered somebody. With your logic of descendants having to atone, then you should be in jail, and your children, and your children's children, and so on. It makes no sense.
> The same applies to when it's a larger group of people, because as far as I know, the European descendants currently living in the US never made the decision to cross the Atlantic. They were simply born there, and you decide that's enough reason to tell them that one of their birth rights is apologizing for what their great-great-great grandfathers did.
> ...



but I have said twice that descendents don't have to atone to the crimes just acknowledge and not repeat :/
Also in bold those countries might not have existed but they would have liked it that way. I'm sure the people in the congos loved having their hands cut off just to be put in a history book years later. 

Bottom line is, go wherever the **** you want, just don't be an ass and try to rule a nation thats not yours.


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## Alolan_Apples (Nov 21, 2014)

NewLeaf13 said:


> This is what I would show to ALL immigrants.
> View attachment 75284



I want YOU to make funny Uncle Sam posters relating to ACNL. PM me if you make some.

But yes, if you want to live in America, you have to speak English. We don't want to be forced to speak their language as our primary language. We do have to speak Spanish if we go to Mexico. We do have to speak French if we go to French speaking countries. So if you live in America, you have to speak English. There's no middle grounds.


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## Liquid Ocelot (Nov 21, 2014)

Apple2012 said:


> I want YOU to make funny Uncle Sam posters relating to ACNL. PM me if you make some.
> 
> But yes, if you want to live in America, you have to speak English. We don't want to be forced to speak their language as our primary language. We do have to speak Spanish if we go to Mexico. We do have to speak French if we go to French speaking countries. So if you live in America, you have to speak English. There's no middle grounds.



ARe you ****ing Kidding Me.

"We don't want to speak their language as our primary language!" 

It's called being multilingual you nut. 

They can learn English, but there should be things available so that learning English does not become a forced thing. You can go to other countries and be accommodated as an English-speaking person. You can not have to worry about finding materials in your language. You can always ask for help. Everyone deserves to feel that way. 

If you move to France, you do not have to learn French and only speak French and have people wondering why you do not speak French. 

I mean. Come on. I usually don't get this impassioned, but this is complete bull****.


----------



## M O L K O (Nov 21, 2014)

Apple2012 said:


> I want YOU to make funny Uncle Sam posters relating to ACNL. PM me if you make some.
> 
> But yes, if you want to live in America, you have to speak English. *We don't want to be forced to speak their language as our primary language.* We do have to speak Spanish if we go to Mexico. We do have to speak French if we go to French speaking countries. So if you live in America, you have to speak English. There's no middle grounds.



Don't speak to them, you'll be doing them a favor honestly.


----------



## Alolan_Apples (Nov 21, 2014)

Liquid Ocelot said:


> *ARe you ****ing Kidding Me*.
> 
> "We don't want to speak their language as our primary language!"
> 
> ...



Why did you have to sound rude when you argue against me? I am getting sick of people being rude to me on the internet. The reason why people should speak English in America is not that it's a required language by law, but it's because the natives to the US grown up with English. I mean, they are allowed to live here as long as they don't infringe on our culture. And getting away with speaking English is an example.

It's okay to argue against me, but the rudeness has got to stop.


----------



## pictureperfectLT (Nov 21, 2014)

If I may join in on this whole debate, I'd phrase rather than "we have to" or "they have to", I'd instead say it would be better to. They shouldn't be forced to do anything. However, if they wish to remain here, I'd say that it would be helpful and respectful to the country / citizens that they learn the language of the country. All the while, though, they shouldn't have to forget their mother tongue / culture.

I can see that they might have thought you were coming off a different way. They might have interpreted what you said a little differently, is all. I don't believe they were intentionally being "rude" or picking at you.


----------



## Alolan_Apples (Nov 21, 2014)

pictureperfectLT said:


> If I may join in on this whole debate, I'd phrase rather than "we have to" or "they have to", I'd instead say it would be better to. They shouldn't be forced to do anything. However, if they wish to remain here, I'd say that it would be helpful and respectful to the country / citizens that they learn the language of the country. All the while, though, they shouldn't have to forget their mother tongue / culture.
> 
> I can see that they might have thought you were coming off a different way. They might have interpreted what you said a little differently, is all. *I don't believe they were intentionally being "rude" or picking at you.*



I'm just a sensitive person. But namecalling and saying "are you ****ing serious?" are both very rude when arguing in a debate, even if I weren't that sensitive. There were already two major incidents on this site where people were very rude to me. I do not want a third one, even though there are minor incidents. When I debate, I avoid attacking my opponents. Granted that I say things that are confusing or something like that, but if people get rude to me for saying that, it starts to become a problem.

Now can we continue talking about how we feel about the immigration law?


----------



## samsquared (Nov 21, 2014)

Zoraluv said:


> Don't speak to them, you'll be doing them a favor honestly.
> -snip but it was awesome-



Bless u that was funny hunty

But yeah, if you're going to live in a country for a long time you should learn the language and do yourself that favour, but the countrymen of that place shouldn't purposefully disservice you as a beginner or as a foreigner. Nor is it required that you speak English in America: we don't have an official language. Though that may have been because America was feeling salty towards Britain, now it's a cultural staple. Plus, Americans go everywhere speaking English and expecting English to be spoken because of hegemonic privilege, and though that assumption is not unfounded, it is still a little rude to do so without at least trying to reciprocate. 
Our children or grandchildren will be learning Mandarin, make no mistake.


----------



## Jawile (Nov 21, 2014)

Apple2012 said:


> I want YOU to make funny Uncle Sam posters relating to ACNL. PM me if you make some.
> 
> But yes, if you want to live in America, you have to speak English. We don't want to be forced to speak their language as our primary language. We do have to speak Spanish if we go to Mexico. We do have to speak French if we go to French speaking countries. So if you live in America, you have to speak English. There's no middle grounds.








u dont have to speak english to move here, it just... helps


----------



## toxapex (Nov 21, 2014)

Apple2012 said:


> Why did you have to sound rude when you argue against me? I am getting sick of people being rude to me on the internet. The reason why people should speak English in America is not that it's a required language by law, but it's because the natives to the US grown up with English. I mean, they are allowed to live here as long as they don't infringe on our culture. And getting away with speaking English is an example.
> 
> It's okay to argue against me, but the rudeness has got to stop.



Si dices que hablamos ingl?s porque nos crecimos con esa idioma, ?no deben los inmigrantes hablar sus propias lenguas? No deben tener que cambiar su lengua para gustar a la gente americana... No te equivocas, creo que es mejor aprender la idioma de un pa?s si viajas all?. Pero si los inmigrantes no pueden hacerlo, no debemos odiarles por eso.


----------



## Beleated_Media (Nov 21, 2014)

tokayseye said:


> Si dices que hablmos ingl?s porque nos crecimos con esa idioma, ?no deben los inmigrantes hablar sus propias lenguas? No deben tener que cambiar su lengua para gustar a la gente americana... No te equivocas, creo que es mejor aprender la idioma de un pa?s si viajas all?. Pero si los inmigrantes no pueden hacerlo, no debemos odiarles por eso.


*google translate GO!
If you say hablmos English because we grew up with that language , should not the immigrants speak their own languages ​​? They should not have to change their language to appeal to the American people ... not wrong , I think it is better to learn the language of a country if you are traveling there. But if immigrants can not, we should not hate them for that.


----------



## Naiad (Nov 21, 2014)

tokayseye said:


> Si dices que hablmos ingl?s porque nos crecimos con esa idioma, ?no deben los inmigrantes hablar sus propias lenguas? No deben tener que cambiar su lengua para gustar a la gente americana... No te equivocas, creo que es mejor aprender la idioma de un pa?s si viajas all?. Pero si los inmigrantes no pueden hacerlo, no debemos odiarles por eso.



have I ever told u how much I love u
<5 u bae
tolaf lives onnn

ANYWAY
SO UH YEAH
HELLA
I SUPPORT THAT PLAN
SOUNDS COOL


----------



## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 21, 2014)

Apple2012 said:


> Why did you have to sound rude when you argue against me? I am getting sick of people being rude to me on the internet. The reason why people should speak English in America is not that it's a required language by law, but it's because *the natives to the US grown up with English.* I mean, they are allowed to live here as long as they don't infringe on our culture. And getting away with speaking English is an example.
> 
> It's okay to argue against me, but the rudeness has got to stop.


----------



## M O L K O (Nov 21, 2014)

MermaidSong said:


>








But seriously if u wanna go that route we needa be learning Cherokee not irrelevant languages like u know..english.

- - - Post Merge - - -



tokayseye said:


> Si dices que hablamos ingl?s porque nos crecimos con esa idioma, ?no deben los inmigrantes hablar sus propias lenguas? No deben tener que cambiar su lengua para gustar a la gente americana... No te equivocas, creo que es mejor aprender la idioma de un pa?s si viajas all?. Pero si los inmigrantes no pueden hacerlo, no debemos odiarles por eso.



marry me


----------



## n64king (Nov 21, 2014)

Someone needs to go back in and time and warn everyone that everyone is going to hate each other in the future aka now and that they should steer the proverbial and literal boats away and not do this United States thing. Tell all of the old world, stay the hell away!


----------



## samsquared (Nov 21, 2014)

n64king said:


> Someone needs to go back in and time and warn everyone that everyone is going to hate each other in the future aka now and that they should steer the proverbial and literal boats away and not do this United States thing. Tell all of the old world, stay the hell away!



Everyone has always hated each other. ?\_(ツ)_/?


----------



## oath2order (Nov 22, 2014)

tokayseye said:


> Si dices que hablamos ingl?s porque nos crecimos con esa idioma, ?no deben los inmigrantes hablar sus propias lenguas? No deben tener que cambiar su lengua para gustar a la gente americana... No te equivocas, creo que es mejor aprender la idioma de un pa?s si viajas all?. Pero si los inmigrantes no pueden hacerlo, no debemos odiarles por eso.



English isn't the official language of the US but it is the language of TBT.


----------



## Lassy (Nov 22, 2014)

Liquid Ocelot said:


> It
> 
> If you move to France, you do not have to learn French and only speak French and have people wondering why you do not speak French.
> 
> I mean. Come on. I usually don't get this impassioned, but this is complete bull****.



Hahahahah. What?
So you move to a country and you decide not to speak their language?
I could understand that you speak in English because you are on a trip, but if you are living there, you should seriously learn the language. 
People seriously wonder why you don't learn to speak French, like many celebrities came to live in paris, they have made an effort to learn the language, because otherwise not a good portion of the French know how to speak proper English. It's also respect.


----------



## Flop (Nov 22, 2014)

oath2order said:


> English isn't the official language of the US but it is the language of TBT.



This ia very basic Spanish tho


----------



## FireNinja1 (Nov 22, 2014)

Fierce said:


> This ia very basic Spanish tho



Says the one who is the only person I know who writes in Spanish in the IRC


----------



## Cuppycakez (Nov 22, 2014)

NewLeaf13 said:


> I absolutely hate it. It's not fair to the actually legal people here. Now, America feels more like a dictatorship instead of Democracy. I KNEW Romney would do better, I just KNEW it! It's a huge problem also, because I live in Texas, a state that's practically being invaded by illegal immigrants now.



Same! Sucks that you live there for that reason. I have family that moved down there and haven't heard from them in a while.  They took my baby cousin with them.  But anyway, that's off topic.
This is also semi off topic but I wanted Romney to win too.


----------



## Alolan_Apples (Nov 22, 2014)

oath2order said:


> English isn't the official language of the US but it is the language of TBT.



Does this apply to animals too (like squirrels and penguins)? They don't speak English because they're animals.


----------



## Cuppycakez (Nov 22, 2014)

Just never mind. I shouldn't of posted.  


Spoiler


----------



## f11 (Nov 22, 2014)

Cuppycakez said:


> It really is. US is an* American speaking country*.  I honestly think if your here you should be able to speak English fully.


American isnt a language


----------



## oath2order (Nov 22, 2014)

Apple2012 said:


> Does this apply to animals too (like squirrels and penguins)? They don't speak English because they're animals.



They cannot access TBT


----------



## Reindeer (Nov 22, 2014)

oath2order said:


> They cannot access TBT


Excuse you, sir.


----------



## Beleated_Media (Nov 22, 2014)

i might close this, people are just trolling :/


----------



## SuperVandal (Nov 22, 2014)

Lassy said:


> Hahahahah. What?
> So you move to a country and you decide not to speak their language?
> I could understand that you speak in English because you are on a trip, but if you are living there, you should seriously learn the language.
> People seriously wonder why you don't learn to speak French, like many celebrities came to live in paris, they have made an effort to learn the language, because otherwise not a good portion of the French know how to speak proper English. It's also respect.



no, it is not a requirement to speak a language nor should it be. it's not unheard of for people to live in remote isolated areas where they communicate with the outside world as little as possible.

also um English is not the dominant language in the US nor should it be a requirement. it certainly does help learning the language while living here, but it is in no way a necessity. 

if you think English should be the official(or only) language you need to open a US history book for once in your life (yeah, shots fired) and refer back to the freaking beginning because (SURPRISE) the Spanish settlers, the Dutch settlers, and the French settlers did not speak English (SURPRIIIIISE). or for that matter the Italians, the Polish, or the Eastern Europeans during the 1800s. literally this country is composed of small ethnic communities dispersed through large cities, and don't you dare attempt to erase anybody's cultural history b/c that's really uncool.


----------



## princesse (Nov 22, 2014)

NewLeaf13 said:


> I absolutely hate it. It's not fair to the actually legal people here. Now, America feels more like a dictatorship instead of Democracy. I KNEW Romney would do better, I just KNEW it! It's a huge problem also, because I live in Texas, a state that's practically being invaded by illegal immigrants now.



Really? Romney would do better in what way? I agree that America isn't exactly a democracy at the moment, but if Romney would have done the same, would you argue that Obama would do better?
But i don't think that it wouldn't be fair to legal people if illegal people had to be away for 5 years, plus there family born in america, and still pays the same amount of taxes... I also live in Texas, so I kind of see your point but still...


----------



## Liquid Ocelot (Nov 23, 2014)

Lassy said:


> Hahahahah. What?
> So you move to a country and you decide not to speak their language?
> I could understand that you speak in English because you are on a trip, but if you are living there, you should seriously learn the language.
> People seriously wonder why you don't learn to speak French, like many celebrities came to live in paris, they have made an effort to learn the language, because otherwise not a good portion of the French know how to speak proper English. It's also respect.



Look. 

I'm not saying they should shun speaking English, but if you're gonna force it on someone? That's wrong. I speak English. I also speak German, and Russian, and other bits and pieces here and there. 

You cannot expect someone to just immediately pick up a language because 'murrica. Should you learn it? Yes. Should there be services available to those who don't? Hell yes. It's the "land of opportunity", you jerkass.


----------



## Lassy (Nov 23, 2014)

SuperVandal said:


> no, it is not a requirement to speak a language nor should it be. it's not unheard of for people to live in remote isolated areas where they communicate with the outside world as little as possible.
> 
> also um English is not the dominant language in the US nor should it be a requirement. it certainly does help learning the language while living here, but it is in no way a necessity.
> 
> if you think English should be the official(or only) language you need to open a US history book for once in your life (yeah, shots fired) and refer back to the freaking beginning because (SURPRISE) the Spanish settlers, the Dutch settlers, and the French settlers did not speak English (SURPRIIIIISE). or for that matter the Italians, the Polish, or the Eastern Europeans during the 1800s. literally this country is composed of small ethnic communities dispersed through large cities, and don't you dare attempt to erase anybody's cultural history b/c that's really uncool.



I wasn't in any ways talking about the USA specifically. And I am not American. I am French.
But going from the same idea that America had other languages before. France too, we had "Bretton" language (and still have), "Alsacien" language and so on. France has several regional languages, but French remains the official language. This is the present. You can of course learn those regional languages, whatever language you want, but it would be best to try to learn the country's language and not be like "**** it, I don't care". 
I am not saying you are erasing their culture or whatever. I seriously have no idea where you have made this up from??? Like I just said if you go to a country, you should try to integrate yourself in that country, and that implies learning that country's language. 
I would find it so unrespectful to go to live in Germany for the rest of my days and never try to learn German. I will learn the language and this is in no way going to erase my culture, is it? 



Liquid Ocelot said:


> Look.
> 
> I'm not saying they should shun speaking English, but if you're gonna force it on someone? That's wrong. I speak English. I also speak German, and Russian, and other bits and pieces here and there.
> 
> You cannot expect someone to just immediately pick up a language because 'murrica. Should you learn it? Yes. Should there be services available to those who don't? Hell yes. It's the "land of opportunity", you jerkass.



I never said that they should immediately pick up the language. Oh and please watch your language, I don't appreciate the fact that you need to insult me in order to make your view valid or whatever. This isn't very mature is it?
I am just saying once again that if you go to a country, and that country speaks a certain language, you should try to at least learn that language. And not be like "whatever, people will just adapt to me".  I never said it was like forced? But I expect from a person living 30 years in the states to know some basic English. (Of course that is different if the person is quite old since it is harder for them to pick up the language, but if they came in their 20-30s, hell yes) If I go to Mexico, or Spain or any Spanish speaking country, to live, I will try to learn the language. I am currently doing so because I am studying in Spain for my studies. I could simply not learn the language, but this is Spain, people's English isn't that good, and since I am living here, I should try to speak Spanish. And I am doing that.


----------



## lazuli (Nov 24, 2014)

ok spoiler because its long and i am upset and ive JUST come back to this thread so sorry for bunpin it.



Spoiler:  






Apple2012 said:


> I want YOU to make funny Uncle Sam posters relating to ACNL. PM me if you make some.
> 
> But yes, if you want to live in America, you have to speak English. We don't want to be forced to speak their language as our primary language. We do have to speak Spanish if we go to Mexico. We do have to speak French if we go to French speaking countries. So if you live in America, you have to speak English. There's no middle grounds.



LMAO *WHAT THE HECK WITH WRONG WITH YOU*

""""""you have to speak english"""""" ummm yeah ok whatever theres TONS of non-english speaking towns in the US. 




Apple2012 said:


> Why did you have to sound rude when you argue against me? I am getting sick of people being rude to me on the internet. The reason why people should speak English in America is not that it's a required language by law, but it's because the natives to the US grown up with English. I mean, they are allowed to live here as long as they don't infringe on our culture. And getting away with speaking English is an example.
> 
> It's okay to argue against me, but the rudeness has got to stop.



natives to the US are native americans. some people come off as '''''rude'''' aka truthful to you because you say stuff that dont make much sense at all
also:


oath2order said:


> English isn't the official language of the US but it is the language of TBT.






			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> Official languages: None at federal level ; *National language: English*



so english is the NATIONAL language, not the OFFICIAL.


different matter




			
				Newleaf13 said:
			
		

> I absolutely hate it. It's not fair to the actually legal people here. Now, America feels more like a dictatorship instead of Democracy. I KNEW Romney would do better, I just KNEW it! It's a huge problem also, because I live in Texas, a state that's practically being invaded by illegal immigrants now.



i dont think theres THAT many immigrants where you live compared to me. i live in south texas, NEAR THE BORDER, in a mexican/mexican-american town/county and such. 



Beleated_Media said:


> i might close this, people are just trolling :/



how is this trolling to you............. you dont understand what trolling is do you


----------



## Cory (Nov 24, 2014)

Y'all need Jesus.


----------



## Nuclear Bingo (Nov 24, 2014)

pictureperfectLT said:


> Compared to where they might be coming from, it's a miracle. I am an immigrant, coming here with my parents at the age of 3, and a US citizen for almost 10 years now. What would you know about all this? What would you know about the conditions that those immigrants are facing back "home"? And how can you be so prejudice against them? Are they doing anything to harm you? No. They just want a better live for themselves -- for their families. And keep in mind, there are people immigrating from the US to elsewhere, just as immigrants are coming in. Are the other countries complaining? NO. Do they argue that they should be kicked out, that they shouldn't be allowed to become citizens? NO. I believe YOU to be the naive one here, not Obama. Obama is working for the welfare of the people -- currently a citizen or not -- and you're just taking advantage of it, thinking you're obligated to have it your way. That sounds really selfish of you, what you've said. He's working for the people -- for the common welfare -- NOT for the individual.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> Although, I will add this. My family and I were NOT illegal immigrants -- we were documented and had everything in order, so it's a bit of a different story. But the moral of the "story" is still the same.



Awww did I hurt your feelings? 

Look we're not even talking about legal immigrants, so your post is largely irrelevant because of that. But I'll indulge you. Do you want this country to continue being a better place than your home? well then we can't toss out money to people leeching off the social system and wasting time and money. Do you think I'm racist? Hahaha don't make me laugh. Anyone who lives on social welfare is a deadbeat. Of course there are special conditions, which we aren't talking about. Why am I selfish if I want my fellow Americans to have what they deserve? Obama should be working for um AMERICANS. Last i checked illegals weren't American. America is a business and the money doesn' come from a toilet. Things shouldn't be handed out. To anyone. I would never takea handout from the government no matter how awful my life was. You have no idea what my life is like to begin with so back off. And the mere fact that he is ignoring the whole legal system is tyrannical.


----------



## Katelyn (Nov 24, 2014)

Nuclear Bingo said:


> Awww did I hurt your feelings?
> 
> Look we're not even talking about legal immigrants, so your post is largely irrelevant because of that. But I'll indulge you. Do you want this country to continue being a better place than your home? well then we can't toss out money to people leeching off the social system and wasting time and money. Do you think I'm racist? Hahaha don't make me laugh. Anyone who lives on social welfare is a deadbeat. Of course there are special conditions, which we aren't talking about. Why am I selfish if I want my fellow Americans to have what they deserve? Obama should be working for um AMERICANS. Last i checked illegals weren't American. America is a business and the money doesn' come from a toilet. Things shouldn't be handed out. To anyone. I would never takea handout from the government no matter how awful my life was. You have no idea what my life is like to begin with so back off. And the mere fact that he is ignoring the whole legal system is tyrannical.



You are the *only* person in this thread that I completely agree with.


----------



## f11 (Nov 24, 2014)

Nuclear Bingo said:


> Awww did I hurt your feelings?
> 
> Look we're not even talking about legal immigrants, so your post is largely irrelevant because of that. But I'll indulge you. Do you want this country to continue being a better place than your home? well then we can't toss out money to people leeching off the social system and wasting time and money. Do you think I'm racist? Hahaha don't make me laugh. Anyone who lives on social welfare is a deadbeat. Of course there are special conditions, which we aren't talking about. Why am I selfish if I want my fellow Americans to have what they deserve? Obama should be working for um AMERICANS. Last i checked illegals weren't American. America is a business and the money doesn' come from a toilet. Things shouldn't be handed out. To anyone. I would never takea handout from the government no matter how awful my life was. You have no idea what my life is like to begin with so back off. And the mere fact that he is ignoring the whole legal system is tyrannical.


they are american because they live in North America. chill


----------



## oath2order (Nov 24, 2014)

Nuclear Bingo said:


> Awww did I hurt your feelings?
> 
> Look we're not even talking about legal immigrants, so your post is largely irrelevant because of that. But I'll indulge you. Do you want this country to continue being a better place than your home? well then we can't toss out money to people leeching off the social system and wasting time and money. Do you think I'm racist? Hahaha don't make me laugh. Anyone who lives on social welfare is a deadbeat. Of course there are special conditions, which we aren't talking about. Why am I selfish if I want my fellow Americans to have what they deserve? Obama should be working for um AMERICANS. Last i checked illegals weren't American. America is a business and the money doesn' come from a toilet. Things shouldn't be handed out. To anyone. I would never takea handout from the government no matter how awful my life was. You have no idea what my life is like to begin with so back off. And the mere fact that he is ignoring the whole legal system is tyrannical.



1) He's helping them become citizens.
2) Executive orders have been done by presidents both Democratic and Republican. Therefore, by your logic, both sides are tyrannical.
3) So, you think that any senior citizen using Medicare, anybody using Social Security, anybody who uses Medicaid, anybody who uses food stamps, is a deadbeat? No matter what their situation is?


----------



## ThomasNLD (Nov 24, 2014)

You guys worked out a solution yet?


----------



## M O L K O (Nov 24, 2014)

Nuclear Bingo said:


> Awww did I hurt your feelings?
> 
> Look we're not even talking about legal immigrants, so your post is largely irrelevant because of that. But I'll indulge you. Do you want this country to continue being a better place than your home? well then we can't toss out money to people leeching off the social system and wasting time and money. Do you think I'm racist? Hahaha don't make me laugh. Anyone who lives on social welfare is a deadbeat. Of course there are special conditions, which we aren't talking about. Why am I selfish if I want my fellow Americans to have what they deserve? Obama should be working for um AMERICANS. Last i checked illegals weren't American. America is a business and the money doesn' come from a toilet. Things shouldn't be handed out. To anyone. I would never takea handout from the government no matter how awful my life was. You have no idea what my life is like to begin with so back off. And the mere fact that he is ignoring the whole legal system is tyrannical.


I smell u all the way from here I s2g

Btw ur idea of americans is made up of immigrants so haha have fun

- - - Post Merge - - -



oath2order said:


> 1) He's helping them become citizens.
> 2) Executive orders have been done by presidents both Democratic and Republican. Therefore, by your logic, both sides are tyrannical.
> 3)* So, you think that any senior citizen using Medicare, anybody using Social Security, anybody who uses Medicaid, anybody who uses food stamps, is a deadbeat? No matter what their situation is*?



ugh wow ofc not cuz we are meant to serve, serve, serve our country and when we  don't fit the requirements we are just scum duh


----------



## BATOCTO (Nov 24, 2014)

oath2order said:


> 1) He's helping them become citizens.
> 2) Executive orders have been done by presidents both Democratic and Republican. Therefore, by your logic, both sides are tyrannical.
> 3) So, you think that any senior citizen using Medicare, anybody using Social Security, anybody who uses Medicaid, anybody who uses food stamps, is a deadbeat? No matter what their situation is?



preach it!!

i agree with obama's plan seeing as how i know personal friends whose parent's were deported and were left alone. it baffles me when i see people that are against immigration. that was how america was created. smh white people saying they're the natives.


----------



## oath2order (Nov 24, 2014)

BATOCTO said:


> preach it!!
> 
> i agree with obama's plan seeing as how i know personal friends whose parent's were deported and were left alone. it baffles me when i see people that are against immigration. that was how america was created. smh white people saying they're the natives.



White people don't say they're natives -_-


----------



## M O L K O (Nov 24, 2014)

oath2order said:


> White people don't say they're natives -_-



what glorious place is this?


----------



## KCourtnee (Nov 24, 2014)

Nuclear Bingo said:


> Waste of time and money. Why the **** would the illegals want to get documented just so they can get taxed more and go through the lengthy process of becoming an american citizen? I mean seriously? How naive is obama?  And as mentioned by the earlier post, if these policies wont last whats the point? And his appeal to "America being founded on immigration" is so stupid it's funny. Yeah that was 100 years ago. We don't need illegals loading up on social programs and just bringing along all of this racial tolerance and bilingual programs and ****. Immigrants built the country. This country has been built. We don't need more people for god's sake. Thats just such a ridiculous excuse. Any job, and position held by an illegal will be replaced by just some other drone. This is all sweet and stuff but wanting to make America a special, "let's be friends and where you too can be an American" motto is destructive. But that is just not how things work. Does he think things will change? Not to mention that he thinks he can overhaul the legislation and employ laws when he wants to? Yeah right. America is going off the rails to kiss everyone's ass and i'm sick of it.



100 years ago? Are you even aware how old the USA is?


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## Beleated_Media (Nov 24, 2014)

KCourtnee said:


> 100 years ago? Are you even aware how old the USA is?



July 4, 1776- Day the US was founded


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## oath2order (Nov 24, 2014)

M O L K O said:


> what glorious place is this?



Literally what white person has said "we are natives of this country."


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## SuperVandal (Nov 24, 2014)

oath2order said:


> Literally what white person has said "we are natives of this country."



actions have spoken louder than words


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## M O L K O (Nov 25, 2014)

oath2order said:


> Literally what white person has said "we are natives of this country."



"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands,_ one Nation under God,_ indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
p much everyone at one point in their life.


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## Nuclear Bingo (Nov 25, 2014)

KCourtnee said:


> 100 years ago? Are you even aware how old the USA is?


ER durrr ellis island?


oath2order- oh i see you read my whole post! Oh wait, no you didn't. I said with an exception. That being  the disabled


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## SuperVandal (Nov 25, 2014)

Nuclear Bingo said:


> ER durrr ellis island?



are you really implying that immigration in the US has existed only since ellis island


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## Nuclear Bingo (Nov 25, 2014)

SuperVandal said:


> are you really implying that immigration in the US has existed only since ellis island



oh for the love of....

No,of course not. That's when America became industrialized and experienced a boom in technology and rose to become a first world nation.


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## SuperVandal (Nov 25, 2014)

Beleated_Media said:


> July 4, 1776- Day the US was founded



yeah um i'm just going to leave this quote here 4 u....


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## Nuclear Bingo (Nov 25, 2014)

what hell kid? Did I say itwas founded with ellis island? Did i say oh the 20th century was when amerika wuz founded


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## oath2order (Nov 25, 2014)

M O L K O said:


> "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands,_ one Nation under God,_ indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
> p much everyone at one point in their life.



How does that prove what you're saying.



Nuclear Bingo said:


> ER durrr ellis island?
> 
> 
> oath2order- oh i see you read my whole post! Oh wait, no you didn't. I said with an exception. That being  the disabled



I see you ignored my point about executive orders.

Not all seniors are disabled. What about them? Are all seniors, despite the fact that they may be able to work, but don't want to because they are retired, does that make them a deadbeat?


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## Nuclear Bingo (Nov 25, 2014)

oath2order said:


> How does that prove what you're saying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



alright kid. You people looove to assume ****. When did i say i loooove them republicans. heeyah. Did I say there were no executive orders in the past? Nope. Does that still make make what obama did unconstitutional. Yeah, I think so. Deadbeat? Yeah. There's no argument there. They put in their money for social security though. They payed taxes. Do illegals? Nope. Elderly aren't always disabled. But others have no mind. and others worked hard and paid their taxes. Now before you say i said any **** that i didnt, im going to say this. Yes illegals work hard too. Yes, they can be good people. Yes, I ate breakfast this morning


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## oath2order (Nov 25, 2014)

Nuclear Bingo said:


> alright kid. You people looove to assume ****. When did i say i loooove them republicans. heeyah. Did I say there were no executive orders in the past? Nope. Does that still make make what obama did unconstitutional. Yeah, I think so. Deadbeat? Yeah. There's no argument there. They put in their money for social security though. They payed taxes. Do illegals? Nope. Elderly aren't always disabled. But others have no mind. and others worked hard and paid their taxes. Now before you say i said any **** that i didnt, im going to say this. Yes illegals work hard too. Yes, they can be good people. Yes, I ate breakfast this morning



Yeah, justice was right, you are just a troll.


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## Nuclear Bingo (Nov 25, 2014)

I think defending my beliefs and flaming people are two totally different things. Haha sorry I like to laugh at my own jokes so that's probabaly why you think i'm a troll. I hope you learn not to take the internet so seriously, friend.


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## M O L K O (Nov 25, 2014)

oath2order said:


> How does that prove what you're saying.


idk tbh. I just went to a high school with hicks that believed that they are native americans because they were born here. Sorry if I tried to go off on a rant I'm still high strung from the other thread and ..idk why I posted the pledge of allegiance. That's a low point for me.


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## Nuclear Bingo (Nov 25, 2014)

Does this mean we can be friends?

Why can't weeeee beee friendsssss


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## nard (Nov 25, 2014)

Nuclear Bingo said:


> Does this mean we can be friends?
> 
> Why can't weeeee beee friendsssss



pls stay on topic before i take ur bingo haha


I think this is great and it gives everyone a chance at life.


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## lazuli (Nov 25, 2014)

Nuclear Bingo said:


> Awww did I hurt your feelings?
> 
> Look we're not even talking about legal immigrants, so your post is largely irrelevant because of that. But I'll indulge you. Do you want this country to continue being a better place than your home? well then we can't toss out money to people leeching off the social system and wasting time and money. Do you think I'm racist? Hahaha don't make me laugh. Anyone who lives on social welfare is a deadbeat. Of course there are special conditions, which we aren't talking about. Why am I selfish if I want my fellow Americans to have what they deserve? Obama should be working for um AMERICANS. Last i checked illegals weren't American. America is a business and the money doesn' come from a toilet. Things shouldn't be handed out. To anyone. I would never takea handout from the government no matter how awful my life was. You have no idea what my life is like to begin with so back off. And the mere fact that he is ignoring the whole legal system is tyrannical.





katiegurl1223 said:


> You are the *only* person in this thread that I completely agree with.



i will punch BOTH of you



Nuclear Bingo said:


> Why can't weeeee beee friendsssss



bc u suk

your title of 'captain dumbass' fits you well


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## KarlaKGB (Nov 25, 2014)

computertrash said:


> i will punch BOTH of you
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i bet ur an illegal


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## lazuli (Nov 25, 2014)

KarlaKGB said:


> i bet ur an illegal



YES u got me. because illegals are michigan born amirite


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