# Do you have a faith?



## Bacon Boy (Nov 27, 2010)

As in, do you believe in something? A religion or something of the sort?

It's a simple yes or no poll.


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## Psychonaut (Nov 27, 2010)

a faith;
i do not has one?

i'm more material, i suppose.  oh well.


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## D1llon (Nov 27, 2010)

Yes, well I worship and pray to a wooden idol of Jeremy


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## Callie (Nov 27, 2010)

Sort of. It's complicated, I'm not really sure what I believe right now.


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## Tyeforce (Nov 27, 2010)

In a way, yes. I believe in something rather than nothing at all, if that's what you mean.


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## Kyel (Nov 27, 2010)

I have a tattoo that says "Just Have Faith" on my chest :3 ...

I actually got it because the "Happy Mask Salesman" says it in OOT all the time .....


But yes, I have faith :]


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## Ron Swanson (Nov 27, 2010)

At the moment, faith is keeping me strong.


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## Ehingen Guy (Nov 28, 2010)

Sylar said:
			
		

> At the moment, faith is keeping me strong.


Same here.


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## Josh (Nov 28, 2010)

Yes, Christianity.


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## Hiro (Nov 28, 2010)

Buddhism )


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## Marcus (Nov 28, 2010)

I have faith in myself, if that counts.

But not a religious faith. There is no such thing as God.


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## Elliot (Nov 28, 2010)

Josh. said:
			
		

> Yes, Christianity.


^ :]


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## Megamannt125 (Nov 28, 2010)

I'm Atheist, so no.


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## Micah (Nov 28, 2010)

Yes. My faith is very important to me.


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## Mr. L (Nov 28, 2010)

YouLittleElly said:
			
		

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^ :]


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## OmegaMan (Nov 28, 2010)

L Lawliet said:
			
		

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^ :]


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## Thunder (Nov 28, 2010)

Yep, Christian. In fact i'm off to church right about now.


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## Kyel (Nov 28, 2010)

Megamannt125 said:
			
		

> I'm Atheist, so no.


So you have no faith in yourself ?


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

I do, to some degree.

I think I've left enough hints, scattered around the forum, for everyone to determine what religion I believe in.


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## Hiro (Nov 28, 2010)

OmegaMan said:
			
		

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c-c-c-c-combo breaker.


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## Psychonaut (Nov 28, 2010)

Kyel said:
			
		

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hardly.

nope.


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## Liv (Nov 28, 2010)

No, I don't believe in anything. I'm christian, I've never gone to church. I see religion as another problem with today's society. I wish there was no religion.


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## Megamannt125 (Nov 28, 2010)

Kyel said:
			
		

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The question was about religous faith wasn't it? I have faith in myself, but I do not believe in any sort of god or high powerful diety.


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## bittermeat (Nov 28, 2010)

I believe in some sort of higher power. Towards the idea that we're a part of something much bigger, but we're not smart enough to know exactly what. I wouldn't call it faith.


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## Pear (Nov 28, 2010)

Nope, not at all.


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## Yokie (Nov 28, 2010)

Nope. I don't need it.


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## Josh (Nov 28, 2010)

Olivia! said:
			
		

> No, I don't believe in anything. I'm christian, I've never gone to church. I see religion as another problem with today's society. I wish there was no religion.


That's what I call: Myparentswerechristiansoiam.

You're not a Christian if you don't believe in God, Jesus or anything that happened in the Bible. Like this boy in my class who is a catholic and doesn't believe in anything, His grandma was before she died.


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## lilypad (Nov 28, 2010)

Kinda. Not any religious faith .. but faith that there is some good in all people.


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## Horus (Nov 28, 2010)

Well I'm atheist but Joel Osteen is pretty persuasive.


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## Liv (Nov 28, 2010)

Josh. said:
			
		

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fine then. I don't really care :/


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## Josh (Nov 28, 2010)

Olivia! said:
			
		

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Don't get angry at me, I'm not angry I'm just saying  :r


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## [Nook] (Nov 28, 2010)

Rogar said:
			
		

> Buddhism )


*high five*

Same here.


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## Sporge27 (Nov 28, 2010)

if you mean in a religion no.

if you mean I believe there is something to this life greater than ourselves worth living for, then yes.

If that something has to be paranormal and incomprehensible in nature then no

I don't believe in a lot of things, but I do have faith that there is a reason for life, and a reason to further our own knowledge as well as those around us.


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## Marcus (Nov 28, 2010)

There is no meaning of life. And there is no 'greater existence/thing'. We are here by pure coincidence and an incomprehensibly unlikely set of chain reactions, and we will not be here forever.


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## Hiro (Nov 28, 2010)

[Nook said:
			
		

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Summer vacation filled with meditating = <3


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## Liv (Nov 28, 2010)

Marcus said:
			
		

> There is no meaning of life. And there is no 'greater existence/thing'. We are here by pure coincidence and an incomprehensibly unlikely set of chain reactions, and we will not be here forever.


There is a meaning to life.


42 duuh.

*please someone get that HGTTG reference.*


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## [Nook] (Nov 28, 2010)

Rogar said:
			
		

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I love celebrating Christmas for the sake of family and presents rather than religiousness.

What about Winter Vacation filled with fasting?


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## Marcus (Nov 28, 2010)

Olivia! said:
			
		

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You-what..hu-...


What?


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## [Nook] (Nov 28, 2010)

This thread would be much more active if the Dagon guy was here.


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## Liv (Nov 28, 2010)

Marcus said:
			
		

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Go read Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy.


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## Hiro (Nov 28, 2010)

[Nook said:
			
		

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I  don't do it for the religiousness. I hate religions, i just want to achieve what Buddha did.

And also, i hate fasting D:


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## Marcus (Nov 28, 2010)

Rogar said:
			
		

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Interesting. What do you believe Enlightenment is exactly? Do you believe in all that 'seeing life in another light' talk, or does it mean something else to you? Buddhism has always intrigued me, because different Buddhists have different views on what Enlightenment involves exactly.


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## [Nook] (Nov 28, 2010)

Marcus said:
			
		

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Even I have no idea.


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

Marcus, I agree with your astute standpoint.

At the end of Radiata Stories, a game for the PS2, one of the main characters says something rather profound before leaving Radiata City to find his father. Something along the lines of, "...Perhaps it is because human life is so short, that we are able to love other people, and have such great conviction about it."

Throughout the game, the silver dragon(no spoilers, for any other human being that has played this awesome game) makes several remarks, how "humanity builds up its tower, time and time again, only to have it toppled by dragons." Dragons, of course, symbolizing the end of humanity.


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## [Nook] (Nov 28, 2010)

Slickyrider said:
			
		

> Marcus, I agree with your astute standpoint.
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> At the end of Radiata Stories, a game for the PS2, one of the main characters says something rather profound before leaving Radiata City to find his father. Something along the lines of, "...Perhaps it is because human life is so short, that we are able to love other people, and have such great conviction about it."
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> Throughout the game, the silver dragon(no spoilers, for any other human being that has played this awesome game) makes several remarks, how "humanity builds up its tower, time and time again, only to have it toppled by dragons." Dragons, of course, symbolizing the end of humanity.


Video games teach so much. =D


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

[Nook said:
			
		

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*high five*

The game is rated T, but it really is intended for players more mature than the average 13 year old.


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 28, 2010)

I'm astounded! A rather profound discussion about views of religions on TBT. Maybe it was a good thing that I forgot to make this a poll only thread.


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## TheYoshiGamer (Nov 28, 2010)

Yes, because I believe in aliens.


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## Megamannt125 (Nov 28, 2010)

Marcus said:
			
		

> There is no meaning of life. And there is no 'greater existence/thing'. We are here by pure coincidence and an incomprehensibly unlikely set of chain reactions, and we will not be here forever.


There is a meaning of life. The meaning of life is to live.
Also, I could be wrong, but i'm pretty sure that being enlightened means having your mind open, your mind cleared, losing the desire of earthly possesions, and coming at total and complete peace within yourself.


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## Psychonaut (Nov 28, 2010)

Megamannt125 said:
			
		

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no, the meaning of life is to annoy the piss out of other people.

or yeah, maybe just to live.  that sounds good.


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## [Nook] (Nov 28, 2010)

Psychonaut said:
			
		

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The meaning of life is to live life to the fullest.

I like that one.


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## Deleted User (Nov 28, 2010)

I'm kinda losing my faith everyday. I need to see some miracles happen, you know?


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## Marcus (Nov 28, 2010)

Megamannt125 said:
			
		

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Well you see that's what I mean. There is no set definition of 'Enlightenment', everyone thinks of it as a slightly different "zone", or mindset. That is what intrigues me about it, and the Buddhist religion itself.


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 28, 2010)

Protoman said:
			
		

> I'm kinda losing my faith everyday. I need to see some miracles happen, you know?


Not all miracles have to be big things, ya know.


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## [Nook] (Nov 28, 2010)

Bacon Boy said:
			
		

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And miracles don't mean anything unless miracles keep happening repeatedly.
If one happens every two or so months, then no, it doesn't mean anything.

But if, one day you bend down and find a bag of chips, then the next day, you find a candy bar, and then you keep finding unhealthy food for about two weeks. That means that the miracles mean something.


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## Sporge27 (Nov 28, 2010)

Megamannt125 said:
			
		

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Ah I see you ascribe to Tautology.   

Enlightenment very well could be viewed as self-actualization.  If you've ever looked up Maslow's hierarchy of needs it describes it fairly well.  It is the top of his pyramid, beyond needs both physical and mental.  I think I've felt that before at least though only a few brief times, it can have a profound effect.  

Wiki for hiearchy


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 28, 2010)

[Nook said:
			
		

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That's not true. That's like saying someone only loves you if they tell you every day that try love you. This is not true.


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## Josh (Nov 28, 2010)

Wait, So we're aloud to discuss?


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 28, 2010)

As long as there's not flaming or trolling. Jeremy's only reason for chaining up the topic is because he doesn't want it getting out of hand.


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## Josh (Nov 28, 2010)

Well then:

I hate it when people say "There is no God" and they are certain about it, I mean how do you know? I know that you'll say "How do you know God is real", But I *believe* he's real. You can't state a fact that isn't proven and Christians have a lot of proof.


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## [Nook] (Nov 28, 2010)

Josh. said:
			
		

> Well then:
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I'm not a Christian, but I support this post.

All (or at least most) religions have "proof".
We can't know what religion is right or wrong, or if there is no right religion at all.
All of this "proof" is just a piece of what is true.

We can't say for sure that God exists, but we also can't say for sure that he doesn't exist.
Same with other beliefs.


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## Micah (Nov 28, 2010)

Bacon Boy said:
			
		

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Matthew 6.

Oops. It's actually John 6 I was thinking of.


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## Miranda (Nov 28, 2010)

I'm a Christian, I have faith. I'm proud to be a Christian, but I'm not a bible pusher, I don't shove my religious views down other people's throats. I support all other faiths, but I'm true to my own at the same time. I don't judge other religions or the people that practice them, or the people who choose to have no religion. It's great that people can believe and practice what they want to, no one likes someone telling them what they should believe, do, act, say, etc...


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

[Nook said:
			
		

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Nook, I fail to see your point. Finding unhealthy food for two weeks straight in the same place could mean anything from: a homeless person that just came across a mountain of junk food, and is throwing away all of the food that he doesn't like, to spontaneous generation being a scientific entity, and junk food just happens to be appearing in that one spot, every single day.

Miracles DO mean something, regardless of their frequency. A miracle is something that defies logic, science, and reason to make something happen.


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## Marcus (Nov 28, 2010)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

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True, it all comes down to the same sort of things. Piece of mind, seeing life in a new light, being at one with life, reaching the 'perfect' mental state, being all wise or omniscient etc. etc.

I think it's the only religion with an 'achievable' goal in my opinion. Christianity has Heaven as the ultimate goal, which I do not believe in. Hinduism has Mokshe, liberation from samsara (life cycle) and to become one with Brahman, which again I do not believe exists. A Sikh's goal is similar to a Hindus, Union with God, as is Judaism's.

So yeah, I guess my most respected religion is Buddhism, because I believe there is a worthwhile practice involved.


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## Garrett x50 cal (Nov 28, 2010)

Olivia! said:
			
		

> No, I don't believe in anything. I'm christian, I've never gone to church. I see religion as another problem with today's society. I wish there was no religion.


Hypocrite of the year?


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## Garrett x50 cal (Nov 28, 2010)

Marcus said:
			
		

> There is no meaning of life. And there is no 'greater existence/thing'. We are here by pure coincidence and an incomprehensibly unlikely set of chain reactions, and we will not be here forever.


Don't say stuff like that like you're so sure.


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## Liv (Nov 28, 2010)

SSgt. Garrett said:
			
		

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huh?


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

Yeah...seriously, Olivia, don't brand yourself as a Christian if you aren't practicing the religion.


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## Gnome (Nov 28, 2010)

no. I respect religions, but personally I choose not to believe them.


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## Garrett x50 cal (Nov 28, 2010)

Olivia! said:
			
		

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>I'm a Christian. 

>I don't believe in anything.

>I never went to Church. 

> Religion is a problem in today's world. 

You're far from being a Christian.


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## Liv (Nov 28, 2010)

Slickyrider said:
			
		

> Yeah...seriously, Olivia, don't brand yourself as a Christian if you aren't practicing the religion.


I was born a christian, my parents didn't believe in what the priests were teaching. 

Fine, I'm a non practicing Christian, happy now?


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## Marcus (Nov 28, 2010)

SSgt. Garrett said:
			
		

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In my mind I am sure. However, I do not disregard other's opinions, as in this thread I have never once challenged somebody else's view.

However I share my views as I personally feel they are right.


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## SilentHopes (Nov 28, 2010)

I have no religion according to my mom. Unless there's a religion that says it's all science...


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## Garrett x50 cal (Nov 28, 2010)

Olivia! said:
			
		

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"My parents don't believe either"

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I'M A CHRISTAN YAY!
@Marcus Then keep them to yourself nobody other then you said "facts."


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

Olivia! said:
			
		

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Thank you. That was simply a minor issue of using the wrong label.


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## moonlight33 (Nov 28, 2010)

I'm an atheist personally. I don't want to follow a religion, because there is no way to know who is right or who is wrong. I find it better to look at the universe the way it is, with a clear open mind. And what if we're wrong about our religion? Well....this pretty much:

http://www.youtube.com/v/6mmskXXetcg

A lot of people think that atheists are bad people...but:

http://www.youtube.com/v/fdVucvo-kDU


"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring" -Carl Sagan


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## Micah (Nov 28, 2010)

What if you're wrong and you're an atheist? :O


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## Princess (Nov 28, 2010)

Guys..this was meant to be a simple yes or no.


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## Ricano (Nov 28, 2010)

bittermeat said:
			
		

> I believe in some sort of higher power. Towards the idea that we're a part of something much bigger, but we're not smart enough to know exactly what. I wouldn't call it faith.


^


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## moonlight33 (Nov 28, 2010)

Comatose said:
			
		

> What if you're wrong and you're an atheist? :O


That's what Richard Dawkins was answering in that video. He's a big advocate of atheism.


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## Megamannt125 (Nov 28, 2010)

Comatose said:
			
		

> What if you're wrong and you're an atheist? :O


If I am wrong and there is a god, I don't want to worship him. Why?
Because either A. He's just some cosmic energy in space that doesn't even know we exist
or B. He watches over us, yet doesn't do anything about starving children, war, and disease just because the first two humans made a mistake.


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## Josh (Nov 28, 2010)

moonlight33 said:
			
		

> I'm an atheist personally. I don't want to follow a religion, because there is no way to know who is right or who is wrong. I find it better to look at the universe the way it is, with a clear open mind. And what if we're wrong about our religion? Well....this pretty much:
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If we're wrong then well... It doesn't change anything. I'm certain there is another life after this when we die and if there is no Christianity then how about the other religions?


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## Garrett x50 cal (Nov 28, 2010)

If atheism is right...then we rot in the ground.


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

Moonlight, you just brought up a central topic of Atheism that I would like to contest:

I don't use religion to re-assure or satisfy...anything. All people who use religion wisely see it as more of a tool, for lack of a better word. Religion is a tool that is used to connect to the higher power that we humans have no definite facts about. Frankly, most people who practice any religion don't use it as something to assure themselves that "everything will be okay", which seems to be a phrase that Atheists have come to use to stereotype all followers of religion.


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## Josh (Nov 28, 2010)

Megamannt125 said:
			
		

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He put us on the world to see whether we are good enough to get to heaven or hell and if you'll follow the word of God there. If he helped disease, starvation, war and disease he'll be doing everything for us and it wont show who is generous enough to donate to starving children or who will cure the disease or who is willing the save people's lives. Then everybody will be going to hell or heaven as he wouldn't be sure and it wouldn't be a good test.
It's like giving an answer on a test to the students.


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## Megamannt125 (Nov 28, 2010)

SSgt. Garrett said:
			
		

> If atheism is right...then we rot in the ground.


Pretty much. Personally, I think the reason religion exists is because of people fearing that possibility, so they felt the need to imagine that there was form of afterlife. But, dying shouldn't be something to be feared even if you rot in the ground, you should still live your life to the fullest and make the most out of it and be happy.


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## moonlight33 (Nov 28, 2010)

Slickyrider said:
			
		

> Moonlight, you just brought up a central topic of Atheism that I would like to contest:
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> I don't use religion to re-assure or satisfy...anything. All people who use religion wisely see it as more of a tool, for lack of a better word. Religion is a tool that is used to connect to the higher power that we humans have no definite facts about. Frankly, most people who practice any religion don't use it as something to assure themselves that "everything will be okay", which seems to be a phrase that Atheists have come to stereotype all followers of religion.


No, I never said that. Most theists think that atheists aren't good people because they as "where do you get your morals from." Well, I get my morals from common sense and logic. I treat others how I would like to be treated. And to understand religion, you really have to see why it exists. All religions answer unanswerable questions like "Why are we here?" or "What happens when we die."


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## Garrett x50 cal (Nov 28, 2010)

Megamannt125 said:
			
		

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Pretty much is like

I worship because I don't wanna rot 

or

I worship because I wanna see/live forever with my maker.


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 28, 2010)

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Like a non practicing Catholic. It's just your background.


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## moonlight33 (Nov 28, 2010)

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See, this is what bothers me about religion. What kind of just being would punish and reward his creations for eternity? How can you justify eternal damnation? Even the most vile people on earth don't deserve to be burned for eternity...that's just sick.


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## Megamannt125 (Nov 28, 2010)

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Worshipping to not rot and worshipping to live forever are basically the same thing.


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## Sporge27 (Nov 28, 2010)

Comatose said:
			
		

> What if you're wrong and you're an atheist? :O


Well then it depends on whether God is good or not. 

 If he is good and you were a good person, why does he need you to believe in him?  I am certain that  a being of good would not care.

If there is a God and he is truly the wrathful being shown in the old testament, I would never worship him because he is an evil being.  He tortures people for eternity for not bowing down to him, he instructs you to kill your own child if he is disobedient.

So tell me if you believe in a god, don't you think he is more likely good?  If that is the case, then when my judgement day comes, I feel I could look him in the face as a friend.  Until then what does it matter if he is real or not?


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

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First of all, @Moonlight: I see now. Instead, I'm contesting Carl Sagan.

Megaman: Come now, you're smarter than that. Humans need to be advocates for themselves. Why? We would never *censored.3.0*ing learn anything if any sort of God simply solved all of our problems. We need to eliminate war, hunger, and disease by ourselves. We simply cannot allow whatever God there exists to magically solve all of the afformentioned problems, and any more you can come up with!


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## Garrett x50 cal (Nov 28, 2010)

Megamannt125 said:
			
		

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No...


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## Josh (Nov 28, 2010)

moonlight33 said:
			
		

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The thing is, God will forgive you. Religious or not he will. Some people do bad things and don't give a damn on what they just did like taking somebody's lives from them or completely ruining it.
Even atheist can go into heaven (I'm sure) if you're just good overall.


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## Micah (Nov 28, 2010)

I believe in a just God, the God of the new testament.


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

moonlight33 said:
			
		

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Reward and Punishment! I was waiting for someone to bring that up.

Reward and Punishment is a label that shouldn't exist. It has created a maelstrom of false statements, such as this one. Reward and Punishment is not the system that the world revolves around. Rather, for all theists, it revolves around God's own, personal feelings towards human beings. Simple as that.


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## moonlight33 (Nov 28, 2010)

Josh. said:
			
		

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Not according to Christian Bible. You have to bow down, believe, and have faith (which is a really trivial thing if you think about it.) That should raise an immediate red flag. Why would an all knowing God want to be worshiped or believed in? Is he an ego maniac or something?


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

moonlight33 said:
			
		

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Yes! God is an ego maniac! I can tell you myself, it says it in the Old Testament and New Testament.

However, humans should not expect to be treated fairly by God if they do not believe in God. You can't expect a priest to feed you one of those communion wafers if you're not a practicing Catholic, for example.


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## Megamannt125 (Nov 28, 2010)

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I know, humans in general are the cause for all the worlds problems, my point is that, what's the point of worshipping this god if he's not doing anything? If that's the case, then it seems to me like all he did was create the universe, told humans stuff for a few years, then just sat back and watched.


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## Josh (Nov 28, 2010)

Slickyrider said:
			
		

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^Something what I was going to say^

Also, You just made an account to post on this topic? :S


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 28, 2010)

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How did I let this go by?
I disagree with what Josh. I can't really explain God's reasoning, as I am not him, but I don't think it's just because he wanted to see us be tested and play around with us.


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

Megamannt125 said:
			
		

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Only _some_ humans, Megaman. Not all humans believe that violence is the answer to destroying infidels, and hunger cannot be cured due to its widespread consistency, and eliminating disease would only be cured by biological warfare. Do you believe all of these things? Clearly, you don't.

About the whole "God being lazy" thing, there are many things that humans do not know. We use God, like I said, as a tool, to connect to the unknown higher power of the universe.

Josh: Yeah, I picked up on that too. I mean, we are having an intense discussion about religion, but this is an Animal Crossing forum.


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## Megamannt125 (Nov 28, 2010)

Epicurus said:
			
		

> Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
> Then he is not omnipotent.
> Is he able, but not willing?
> Then he is malevolent.
> ...


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## moonlight33 (Nov 28, 2010)

Slickyrider said:
			
		

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So we should be judged on our believe rather than our actions? Yeah, that makes perfect sense.


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## moonlight33 (Nov 28, 2010)

Megamannt125 said:
			
		

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I was about to post this, but theists still have their lame excuses to combat this, like "We have free will." or "Our sin causes evil" or "God can't get near evil because it's against his nature"


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 28, 2010)

Slickyrider said:
			
		

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It's not laziness. It's freewill. If God did what we were supposed to do and made the decisions for us, then we wouldn't be free.


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

moonlight33 said:
			
		

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If humans want to be judged by God, they need to believe in God. Humans are judged solely by their actions.


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## Josh (Nov 28, 2010)

moonlight33 said:
			
		

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That's what we believe  <_<


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## Sporge27 (Nov 28, 2010)

I believe people here have reached an impasse.

If you have nothing new to add now would be the time to stop or a lock may be required if tensions rise.


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 28, 2010)

moonlight33 said:
			
		

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We're judged on both.
You can't get into heaven by just belief or by just good deeds.
You can't say you want to follow Christ and accept him into your heart and then not turn your life around. It's like using Christianity as a scapegoat.


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## moonlight33 (Nov 28, 2010)

Josh. said:
			
		

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So let's say that before Hitler died, he repented and prayed to Jayzus to forgive him. He goes on to hell to live in bliss. Now, let's look at Bil Gates, (an atheist.) He has done a lot for the American economy, he's a genius obviously, and he has donated over 30 billion dollars to charity. He doesn't believe, so he will burn in hell, while demons eat him alive, in a never ending fire. Picture it. Imagine good people like that in Hell. Imagine all of the Jews that suffered under the hands of Hitler, dying in gas chambers with their families. Image those peaceful people in Hell right now, suffering even more, just for not praying to Jesus. The thought of that is absolutely vomit inducing.


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

moonlight33 said:
			
		

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Bacon Boy: I know it's free will. Megaman implied that it is laziness.

Moonlight: If you want to reasonably discuss this, do not insult the logic of theists. It's logic! Atheism is based on logic!

That very same logic is reasonable: Humans do have free will, and we have great conviction about our actions. We are not controlled by God or any religious teachings, humans make decisions individually. Was John Wilkes Booth controlled by God, and was his hand guided by an angel to shoot Abraham Lincoln?

Our sins do cause evil. Islamic extremism caused the Afghanistan war. War is pointless. See where I'm going?

God is not evil nor good. Where did you get that idea? God does not act, humans do the actions themselves.

EDIT: Sporge, I implore you, don't lock this topic. We're going along quite well with this reasonable argument. I don't think we'll ever reach a stalemate.


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## Sporge27 (Nov 28, 2010)

I posted that more because people seemed to be getting a little flustered, not on any particular side just in general.  Just please take a deep breath and read over what you are going to post before you do.


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

Sporge, the great control. Within this reasonable argument, there is a mediator.


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## Josh (Nov 28, 2010)

moonlight33 said:
			
		

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Hitler will go to hell since just saying a simple prayer won't get him out of hell, He also killed different types of people like Disabled, homosexual, blacks, blue eyes, blonds, Jews and people he didn't like.

Now Bill Gates, He's done a lot for the world yeah that's great. But I'm sure (or not sure) if he's saying things like "God isn't real, He doesn't exist! Everybody who believes in God is stupid and God is the devil!" and all *censored.2.0* like that then of course he'll go to hell for doubting. There's a difference between doubting and being sure and being unsure about it.
Also Jesus was a Jew, Why would all of the Jews in the holocaust go to hell? They didn't do anything but be Jewish.

And go ahead vomit, It won't change anything.


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## Marcus (Nov 28, 2010)

The reason I am atheist is that there are too many contradicting facts and philosophies in Religion in general that I cannot see the grain of truth behind the millions of grains of mis-understandings.


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## moonlight33 (Nov 28, 2010)

Well from my understanding, Jews denied Jesus and thought that he was fake. The bible also says that the only way to god is through the son (Which really makes no sense at all).


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## Gnome (Nov 28, 2010)

what happened to Yes or No?


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## Josh (Nov 28, 2010)

Marcus said:
			
		

> The reason I am atheist is that there are too many contradicting facts and philosophies in Religion in general that I cannot see the grain of truth behind the millions of grains of mis-understandings.


Truth? By truth you mean evidence right?
If you do, The Bible, Egypt, Miracles and much more.

If not then screw me.


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

Josh. said:
			
		

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Haha, wonderful, Josh, you've brought up another topic.

Jesus was a practicing Jew. As a matter of fact, he was a Rabbi in the area around Lake Kinnereth. Just making sure that gets out there.

Also, Josh brought up another topic: *there is a difference between doubting and being unsure.* If Bill Gates said things like "*censored.3.0* God! God isn't real, and all theists are ********!" Yes, he would be punished by God. Being unsure of God's existence is simply being unsure, you're not insulting anyone.


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## Josh (Nov 28, 2010)

moonlight33 said:
			
		

> Well from my understanding, Jews denied Jesus and thought that he was fake. The bible also says that the only way to god is through the son (Which really makes no sense at all).


In the Bible times, That's waay far from the holocaust.


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 28, 2010)

Someone once made the comment that God can do anything, but it was argued that God could do evil. The other one went on to say this is not true. Evil, like darkness and cold, is a non thing. It is the absence of good. Evil was "created" by man when he stepped away from goodness. God can do any *thing*, non things, which don't technically exist, cannot be performed by God. Non things cannot be created, darkness cannot be created, cold cannot be created. They are merely the absences of things.

Don't really know who I was talking to, but someone's post reminded me of this.


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## moonlight33 (Nov 28, 2010)

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All religions have "evidence"


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

Something a bit off-topic, that most people do not know:

Egypt is currently called Egypt. In the time of the Bible, the official name of Egypt was not Egypt, nor Mitzrayim, nothing of the sort. "Mitzrayim" is the name that the Jewish Bible gave that land, because the Hebrew word "Mezer" means oppression. "Mitzrayim", meaning "The Land of Oppression".


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## [Nook] (Nov 28, 2010)

Does this happen every single time a thread comes across a theme change focusing on Christianity?


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## Sporge27 (Nov 28, 2010)

Josh. said:
			
		

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No he means that there are so many different religions, that say extraordinarily different things.

If you say the Bible is proof then what of the many other holy books in the world?  Are all the others fake?  What makes the Bible the one that is right?

A book is no more proof than correlation is causation.  It can make something seem reasonable, even seem right , but it is not necessarily true.

Also not sure how Egypt is proof...


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

Bacon Boy said:
			
		

> Someone once made the comment that God can do anything, but it was argued that God could do evil. The other one went on to say this is not true. Evil, like darkness and cold, is a non thing. It is the absence of good. Evil was "created" by man when he stepped away from goodness. God can do any *thing*, non things, which don't technically exist, cannot be performed by God. Non things cannot be created, darkness cannot be created, cold cannot be created. They are merely the absences of things.
> 
> Don't really know who I was talking to, but someone's post reminded me of this.


 This is something for Atheists to think about. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light. Evil is the absence of good. God can do, God cannot undo.


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## [Nook] (Nov 28, 2010)

inb4lock

You cannot argue religion because no one knows for sure what is true.

I'm probably an idiot for saying this.


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## moonlight33 (Nov 28, 2010)

Can god create a rock that is too heavy for him to lift?


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## Marcus (Nov 28, 2010)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

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I must thank Sporge for answering for me, in better words than I ever could have used.

Truth is completely different from evidence. Evidence can be incorrect, false, misleading. Truth is the truth, and is never incorrect, false or misleading.


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

moonlight33 said:
			
		

> Can god create a rock that is too heavy for him to lift?


Yes, God can. God created the Earth, which God, as a spiritual entity, cannot lift. God is a spiritual entity, and you must accept that. No physical entity can lift the Earth.

Therefore, what is your point?


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## Liv (Nov 28, 2010)

Personally, I think this topic should have never been made. Everyone has different life styles that shape their beliefs. Different family histories, different stories different ancestors.  Bottom-line is that everyone thinks different things about this topic. Will everyone ever agree? Probably not.


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## Princess (Nov 28, 2010)

In my eyes, religion was just made as to tell others between what's right and what's wrong. In some sense, to establish a type of society with rules. Now everyone has different view points, and that's why I believe there's so many different religions. 

As for me, personally I do believe in God. But I don't believe God is some dude with long brown hair, or someone who is all blue and plays the flute, that's going to come out of nowhere and save you. I believe God is energy. Good karma.


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## muffun (Nov 28, 2010)

I can't say I consider myself tied down to a single faith.

However, that's not to say I don't find learning about religion interesting. I just don't want to be a part of it. Look but don't touch.


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## Josh (Nov 28, 2010)

Marcus said:
			
		

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There will be other religions but of course, We don't know which one is right, We can only believe.
But whatever, I'll stop since I really need to sleep


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## Sporge27 (Nov 28, 2010)

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Evil to me seems palpable.  To kill is an act, it is a physical thing.  To cheat on your wife is not the lack of not cheating... that just gets filled with double negatives.

There is a grey area that isn't good or evil, there is most certainly a neutrality that most things are.  Good and evil cannot be done by things without the ability to differentiate between the two.  I think viewing the world in black and white is a dangerous thing, because almost no act is entirely good or evil.  Good is often done for selfish reason as well as the non selfish, evil can be done out of desperation to do good for someone.


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## moonlight33 (Nov 28, 2010)

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 28, 2010)

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The physical laws don't exist in the spiritual realm. Most of these rules that we have discovered only govern our universe. How do we know that there isn't a universe out there that defies our laws of gravity and time?


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

Olivia! said:
			
		

> Personally, I think this topic should have never been made. Everyone has different life styles that shape their beliefs. Different family histories, different stories different ancestors.  Bottom-line is that everyone thinks different things about this topic. Will everyone ever agree? Probably not.


Different cultures, different lands of birth.

We are contesting the differences of the religions, as well as the timeless debate between theists and atheists.


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 28, 2010)

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Originally, I never plannedfor this to be a topic, only a poll. I just forgot to lock it.


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## KoolKitteh (Nov 28, 2010)

strikingmatches said:
			
		

> In my eyes, religion was just made as to tell others between what's right and what's wrong. In some sense, to establish a type of society with rules. Now everyone has different view points, and that's why I believe there's so many different religions.
> 
> As for me, personally I do believe in God. But I don't believe God is some dude with long brown hair, or someone who is all blue and plays the flute, that's going to come out of nowhere and save you. I believe God is energy. Good karma.


I agree!

God is enerrgy that roams around good people who do good things, and is a spirit that watches us, whether we do good or bad he is watching down at us, like Santa, but better


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 28, 2010)

jim128 said:
			
		

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You're kind of contradicting yourself, but I see what you're saying.


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## [Nook] (Nov 28, 2010)

jim128 said:
			
		

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He doesn't even need spy elves!


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## KoolKitteh (Nov 28, 2010)

[Nook said:
			
		

> ,Nov 28 2010, 05:22:24 PM]
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Course he does, Preachers, Rabbies, Ned Flanders! Think about it {Nooky}! And yes I called you {Nooky}


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

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Human beings do either good or evil, just because they cannot necessarily demarcate the two does not mean they are doing neither. Certainly, there is a neutrality to the two. Nothing is purely good or evil.

Bacon Boy: You're right. We exist in one galaxy, under our laws. God may have the ability to lift the Earth, God may not. There are almost certainly other dimensions that have completely different natural laws.

Moonlight: A claim is something that stands alone, without evidence or reasoning. That is basic science, my boy.

Josh: That is the ine definite statement which can be said. No religion, or singular belief, is absolutely true. This includes atheism.


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## [Nook] (Nov 28, 2010)

jim128 said:
			
		

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Don't forget religious freaks who shove religion down other people's throats!

That reminds me, what do I want Santa to give me this year?
I want to know the true religion! Nah, maybe a video game.


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## Sporge27 (Nov 28, 2010)

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I am not referring to humans rather something like a lightening bolt killing someone is not evil, nor is the storm that made it.  It was just an unfortunate event.  In the same regard the tree that grows fruit knows not that it provides nourishment for many.

Anything with a consciousness can do good and evil, things that lack it though I think do neither, they simply are.


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## Slickyrider (Nov 28, 2010)

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My point is: human beings may not necessarily know whether they are doing good or evil, but they are not doing neither. Those without a conscience certainly cannot discern betwen the two.

Also, this thread deserves to be left alone. Don't lock it, but let it become inactive. Whenever someone wants to strike up the discussion again, this will be here, laying dormant.


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## [Nook] (Nov 28, 2010)

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What's the point of locking it, anyway?


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## moonlight33 (Nov 28, 2010)

Why won't god heal amputees?


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## Jake (Nov 28, 2010)

I believe in faith and fate?


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## D1llon (Nov 28, 2010)

Is there an argument yet? I want in....


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## [Nook] (Nov 28, 2010)

D1llon said:
			
		

> Is there an argument yet? I want in....


You missed it.

And what's the point of arguing over religion if you don't get anything out of it?
What is true will be revealed to us one day, anyway.


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## moonlight33 (Nov 28, 2010)

I think we should all convert to the one true faith, Pastafarian.


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## Sporge27 (Nov 28, 2010)

moonlight you are just provoking now.  Please stop.


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 28, 2010)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

> moonlight you are just provoking now.  Please stop.


Wasn't he doing that beforehand?


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## Bulerias (Nov 28, 2010)

No.  Faith is blind.  I, however, _assume_ that there is a higher power out there.  It's an assumption based on reason -- considering that we do not know everything there is to know, there is always a chance that a higher power exists.  I do not have faith, nor do I "believe".  I simply accept that we do not know, and, more than likely, cannot ever know.

More specifically, I am a panentheist.  I believe that everything around us is God (i.e., nature).  What separates me from _panetheists_, however, is the acceptance of the possibility of there being something else.  This "something" exists beyond nature and thus beyond our present-day understanding.  Whether this something is a higher power or simply a set of rules we are all bound by, I don't know.  And frankly, I don't care.

The past couple of years have been difficult for me, as far as religion/faith/spirituality.  Panentheism is the conclusion I came to, and it seems like the most logical "faith" of all.


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## Bulerias (Nov 28, 2010)

Bacon Boy said:
			
		

> Evil was "created" by man when he stepped away from goodness.


*Absolutely not*.  If one assumes that man is God's creation, then anything that man creates is likewise.  Thus, evil is God's creation just like everything else.  We are all God's children and so is the Devil, who allegorically encompasses everything that contradicts mankind's flimsy definition of "goodness".


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## Gnome (Nov 28, 2010)

Also I'd like to give my 2 cents.

This isn't an argument, this is a debate, learn the difference as it might help you later on.


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## Trent the Paladin (Nov 28, 2010)

I believe there is a higher power yes. I don't align myself with any exact faith but I guess if I had to meld myself in with any group it'd be Christianity.


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## Princess (Nov 28, 2010)

moonlight33 said:
			
		

> I think we should all convert to the one true faith, Pastafarian.


Yessss. We should all worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster.


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 28, 2010)

strikingmatches said:
			
		

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For some reason, this reminds me of Jenn.


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## Bulerias (Nov 28, 2010)

Gnome said:
			
		

> Also I'd like to give my 2 cents.
> 
> This isn't an argument, this is a debate, learn the difference as it might help you later on.


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## Niya (Nov 28, 2010)

God


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## Brad (Nov 28, 2010)

Totem of faith


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## //RUN.exe (Nov 28, 2010)

i can't see any god, only the bickering and wounds his followers leave in his name.


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## «Jack» (Nov 28, 2010)

I honestly don't know at this point.
I mean, I kind of want to believe that there's a point to life besides just being a tiny part in an endless cycle, and I don't want to be wrong and have to suffer eternally.
The thing is, religion's become little more than politics. This past week, I learned that it's apparently a mortal sin to vote for anyone that is pro-abortion. I don't know what that is, but it's not religion.

So yeah.


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## moonlight33 (Nov 28, 2010)

-Jack- said:
			
		

> I honestly don't know at this point.
> I mean, I kind of want to believe that there's a point to life besides just being a tiny part in an endless cycle, and I don't want to be wrong and have to suffer eternally.
> The thing is, religion's become little more than politics. This past week, I learned that it's apparently a mortal sin to vote for anyone that is pro-abortion. I don't know what that is, but it's not religion.
> 
> So yeah.


I actually feel more "warm and fuzzy" inside when I think that we are just small insignificant particles part of an endless cycle of death and evolution. One day, the particles in our body might be part of star, or planet, or animal, or another person. We ARE the universe.


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## merinda! (Nov 29, 2010)

I am agnostic but leaning towards atheist.


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## Lisathegreat! (Nov 30, 2010)

CherryTree said:
			
		

> Sort of. It's complicated, I'm not really sure what I believe right now.


Yeeaah, I used to be like that, I even was an atheist (I'm young it doesn't really count).. but my old friend helped me.

Christian.


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## Ron Ronaldo (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm an agnostic secular humanist. =J


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## Trundle (Nov 30, 2010)

Yep. Christian.


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## MrChuckman64 (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm very much so Christian.  Jesus rocks.


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## [Nook] (Nov 30, 2010)

Lisamilitz said:
			
		

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But your friend "helped" you? What?

What's your family's religion?
If your family was a religion, would you let another person convince you to believe in their religion, if you strongly believed your family's religion? I would never, ever, let that happen.


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 30, 2010)

[Nook said:
			
		

> ,Nov 30 2010, 10:17:39 PM]
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What?

So you're saying that you'd only believe in what your parents believe in?


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## //RUN.exe (Nov 30, 2010)

[Nook said:
			
		

> ,Nov 30 2010, 10:17:39 PM]If your family was a religion


hah


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## [Nook] (Nov 30, 2010)

Bacon Boy said:
			
		

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I'm saying, if you strongly believe in a religion, why try to let others convince you?


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## Bacon Boy (Nov 30, 2010)

[Nook said:
			
		

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So basically, be closed minded?

More than likely, it wasn't a matter of letting them preach to her, but more along the lines of some of the things they said and did affected her and made her curious about the Christian faith.


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## Sporge27 (Dec 1, 2010)

I didn't quite feel right with the way the word helped was used, as if being an atheist was a problem. 

People get horribly discriminated against for being atheist, it scares people.  May be because the thought that someone could willingly think that there is nothing shakes their own belief.  

Either way being an atheist is not a problem.  Though I feel I more fit agnostic currently, it still offends me a bit that someone could think it a problem.  Being an atheist doesn't mean they are immoral, and doesn't mean they have something wrong with them.


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## Mino (Dec 1, 2010)

Ron Ronaldo said:
			
		

> I'm an agnostic secular humanist. =J


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## [Nook] (Dec 2, 2010)

Bacon Boy said:
			
		

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What does she mean by "help"?


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## Niya (Dec 2, 2010)

[Nook said:
			
		

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Maybe she wasn't ready to accept any one religion solidly. So by "help" maybe she means her friends showed her other religions and what they believed in. From what she learned, she chose the one she most agrees with: Christianity.

But that's just what I got from it. I might be totally wrong. :S


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