# Philando Castile and Dallas Shootings



## Red Cat (Jul 7, 2016)

Last night, Philando Castile was shot and killed by a policeman in Falcon Heights, Minnesota after being stopped for a broken taillight. His girlfriend posted live video to Facebook after Castile had been shot which shows him bleeding and dying. According to the girlfriend who was taking the video, the policeman shot him when he reached for his pocket after the police asked to see his gun permit. Castile was shot 5 times by the cop while the couple's 4 year old daughter was in the car. What are your thoughts on this disturbing event and video?


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## Jared:3 (Jul 7, 2016)

nevermind, forget what I said


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## Fleshy (Jul 7, 2016)

I seen the live stream of Lavish/Diamond (his girlfriend) speaking about what happened and it was heart breaking, honestly so heart breaking. I'm so disgusted, I don't even know what to say. The fact a four year old child witnessed this too? I can't even imagine. I feel deeply for the family and everyone mourning. 

Events Murders like this are happening all too often, Philando being murdered only a day after Alton Sterling was also murdered by police. The fact that police can kill people like this for no reason is so, so wrong. Police brutality, primarily towards black people in america, needs to stop. I don't want to overstep or take the conversation away from Philando's murder, but something needs to be done, It's disgusting that this continues to happen.


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## MayorSkittles (Jul 7, 2016)

Honestly so many bad and corrupt things have been happening in this country lately; from The Email Scandal to all these shootings it makes me sick to think this is te country we live in now; this place is supposed to represent freedom, not corruption. 

I don't know about you guys but I'll probably be choosing Canada this coming November (jk but seriously this place is going downhill)


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## AquaStrudel (Jul 7, 2016)

That's so awful. And the fact his 4 year-old little girl was there... Jesus... It's sickening.


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## Taj (Jul 7, 2016)

Definitely something that I would never want to happen to a 4 year old child, witnessing that incident. 

A moment to remember and pray for the family and the Philando Castile


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## LambdaDelta (Jul 7, 2016)

Exhausting and frustrating that nothing will likely be done as per usual. Money and governmental positions are just showing more and more obviously that they're keys to evade the law, and good ****ing luck with the elite that run this ****show changing things so they're dragged down to the same level as everyone else in this regard.

Also, the more I think about it, the more I realize that this police force is making a pretty good case against the second amendment. They clearly can't be trusted with firearms, and if a position meant to protect can't be, then why should ordinary citizens with no duty or obligation to one way or the other?


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## Red Cat (Jul 7, 2016)

Ten Dallas police officers were shot and 3 have been killed by snipers at a protest in Dallas. It's a ****ing war.

Update:

The Dallas PD showed a picture of one of the suspects. He was wearing a camo shirt and had an assault rifle strapped across his body. You'd think that would be a red flag and he'd immediately be arrested, but that's probably considered normal for a gun-crazy state like Texas.


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## Greninja (Jul 8, 2016)

Honestly its a very horrible what happened

If the cop was so afraid he had a gun why didn't he just tell him to step out of the car with his hands up?
As simple as that why couldn't he have just done that?


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## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> Ten Dallas police officers were shot and 3 have been killed by snipers at a protest in Dallas. It's a ****ing war.
> 
> Update:
> 
> The Dallas PD showed a picture of one of the suspects. He was wearing a camo shirt and had an assault rifle strapped across his body. You'd think that would be a red flag and he'd immediately be arrested, but that's probably considered normal for a gun-crazy state like Texas.



It's extremely rare that you see someone open carrying. And for the record, 44 other states legalized it before Texas did, and 2/3 of Texans were against that bill being passed. We're not all gun crazy.

Anyway, the shooting happened at a black lives matter protest for a shooting that didn't even happen here, and the two snipers are still at large. What's really messed up is that the cops were marching _with_ the protesters, showing their support, and still, ten of them were shot. People are unbelievable.


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## Reindeer (Jul 8, 2016)

Greninja said:


> Honestly its a very horrible what happened
> 
> If the cop was so afraid he had a gun why didn't he just tell him to step out of the car with his hands up?
> As simple as that why couldn't he have just done that?


He wasn't afraid of him having a gun, he knew he had a gun. Philando told the officer himself and said he had a permit. However, he also did what he was supposed to do in such a situation and told the officer that he was reaching for his wallet. That's when he got shot.

It's sad that the two incidents led to more cop killings. In the aftermath of previous incidents, police officers were also killed in retaliation, even if they didn't have anything to do with it. The killings of the officers were underreported. Guess you gotta kill several of them before it's newsworthy.


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## nami26 (Jul 8, 2016)

I think it was horrible, but the whole issue I have with it is, all the people who are like Black Lives Matter, and it's like yeah, but ALL LIVES MATTER!!!!! And theyre all like wow all these black people are dying because of the racist cops, and yes they are, but its because most of the time, those black people did something wrong, like reach for a gun or rob a store, or SHOOT THE WHITE COP IN THE FCKING FIRST PLACE:::

- - - Post Merge - - -

nothing cops do anymore is ok with the country, the people are gonna find SOMETHING to gripe about and its disgusting.


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## Fleshy (Jul 8, 2016)

nami26 said:


> I think it was horrible, but the whole issue I have with it is, all the people who are like Black Lives Matter, and it's like yeah, but ALL LIVES MATTER!!!!! And theyre all like wow all these black people are dying because of the racist cops, and yes they are, but its because most of the time, those black people did something wrong, like reach for a gun or rob a store, or SHOOT THE WHITE COP IN THE FCKING FIRST PLACE:::
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> nothing cops do anymore is ok with the country, the people are gonna find SOMETHING to gripe about and its disgusting.



Oh wow, just wow. Yes "all lives matter" nobody is denying this, but at the moment there is a great amount of police brutality towards black people. Black Lives Matter is a movement that was created to basically say stop killing black people, it is not putting black people above others.  Here is a short video on the all lives matter vs black lives matter that explains the movement quickly and simply. 

"Those black people did something wrong"? Quite a few times, specially recently, police brutality towards black people is become really prevalent, very often for no reason. Even if someone did rob a store, why would that be a reason for getting shot?! You should not be shot for 'robbing' a store, carrying a gun, or anything like that, that is not a reason to get shot, there is no excuse for shooting someone in those (and similar) cases. Remember the Charleston shooting? The shooter didn't get shot, he got taken to prison, so if you can shoot 9 people dead and not get shot, why would you think carrying a gun or robbing a store is a reason to get shot?! If police are shooting people for no good reason, they should not be police and should not be allowed to carry a gun. 

"SOMETHING to gripe about" oh yeah, people are rightfully angry about police killing black people, but of course the angry people and the victims are the ones in the wrong, and not the police actually killing them, that's not disgusting at all is it? Are you seriously angry that people are angry about people being killed outright? I'm so confused by your response. 

Now more people have been murdered, none of this should have happened, none of it. I don't want to turn the conversation back into gun control, but I think it's an important discussion, none of this should have happened. People are killing each other left right and center. The world is cruel and disgusting. My thoughts are with the families of everyone who was murdered, and with everyone affected. Nobody needed or deserved to die.


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## nami26 (Jul 8, 2016)

Its not gonna stop. Never. The world is a disgusting place and will be become more dangerous by the minute. There's white people who get killed because of police brutality all the time, but no one reports that. Im not racist, its just I feel that black people purposefully target white cops. And also, in Ferguson, the black people of the town destroyed innocent peoples homes and killed the people through their riots, for no apparent reason. This is what the world has come to in our generation. and its horrible. I do feel bad for the families of the people who were killed, but people get killed everyday for their beliefs, skin color, and religion, but for some odd, unknown reason, only the deaths of black people in police brutslity cases are mentioned in world and national news. makes me wonder a bit.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Reindeer said:


> He wasn't afraid of him having a gun, he knew he had a gun. Philando told the officer himself and said he had a permit. However, he also did what he was supposed to do in such a situation and told the officer that he was reaching for his wallet. That's when he got shot.
> 
> It's sad that the two incidents led to more cop killings. In the aftermath of previous incidents, police officers were also killed in retaliation, even if they didn't have anything to do with it. The killings of the officers were underreported. Guess you gotta kill several of them before it's newsworthy.



exactly, the cops are underreported for their deaths, and its unfair.


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## Gregriii (Jul 8, 2016)

who cares there are tons of humans


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## nami26 (Jul 8, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> who cares there are tons of humans



wow great words. Human lives matter, believe it or not, no matter how many of them there are in the world.


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## RainbowCherry (Jul 8, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> who cares there are tons of humans



Their families, their friends, people who feel like this could happen to them because they have/may be in a similar situation, his girlfriend, etc...


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## Gregriii (Jul 8, 2016)

nami26 said:


> wow great words. Human lives matter, believe it or not, no matter how many of them there are in the world.



they matter because exactly what?


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## nami26 (Jul 8, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> they matter because exactly what?



hmmmm well... they have families, and those families have families, and those family members have families, and so on. without people, the world would not go on. DUH


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## Fleshy (Jul 8, 2016)

nami26 said:


> Its not gonna stop. Never. The world is a disgusting place and will be become more dangerous by the minute. There's white people who get killed because of police brutality all the time, but no one reports that. Im not racist, its just I feel that black people purposefully target white cops. And also, in Ferguson, the black people of the town destroyed innocent peoples homes and killed the people through their riots, for no apparent reason. This is what the world has come to in our generation. and its horrible. I do feel bad for the families of the people who were killed, but people get killed everyday for their beliefs, skin color, and religion, but for some odd, unknown reason, only the deaths of black people in police brutslity cases are mentioned in world and national news. makes me wonder a bit.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



Not only the deaths of black people are mentioned, and reports on people of other races being murdered by the police have been reported. I'm not sure how reliable the data is, but this report shows that yes, a whole lot of white people and people of other races are being killed by police too, but black people are 3 times as likely to be killed by police. 



Spoiler: .







i realise the image is too small, so here's a link

I have also seen, plenty of times in the news, reports of police being killed, I don't think it's under reported at all. I think this whole thing is a massive, massive problem. People shouldn't be killing other people like this.


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## Gregriii (Jul 8, 2016)

nami26 said:


> hmmmm well... they have families, and those families have families, and those family members have families, and so on. without people, the world would not go on. DUH



I don't think so, as u said the world is a disgusting plce so without humans it would be a better place? duh

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FleshyBro said:


> Not only the deaths of black people are mentioned, and reports on people of other races being murdered by the police have been reported. I'm not sure how reliable the data is, but this report shows that yes, a whole lot of white people and people of other races are being killed by police too, but black people are 3 times as likely to be killed by police.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



the thing is ppl shouldnt be killing other people at all


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## Fleshy (Jul 8, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> who cares there are tons of humans



edgy.



Gregriii said:


> the thing is ppl shouldnt be killing other people at all



I know, I said that originally and also added it into that post, people should not be killing people at all, regardless.

I'm not going to 'argue' or anything anymore, it feels disrespectful on a thread regarding someone's death. I'm just so disgusted with so many things happening in the world recently.


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## nami26 (Jul 8, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> edgy.
> 
> 
> 
> I know, I said that originally and also added it into that post, people should not be killing people at all, regardless.



well people are going to keep killing people. Deaths are never gonna stop, so why are we arguing about it? enough said, people will never stop killing. its in human nature, if you dont like someone, or what they think, believe, say, or do, then if your crazy, youll probably kill them. there are insane people in the world, theres nothing we can do to stop the killings.


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## Gregriii (Jul 8, 2016)

nami26 said:


> well people are going to keep killing people. Deaths are never gonna stop, so why are we arguing about it? enough said, people will never stop killing. its in human nature, if you dont like someone, or what they think, believe, say, or do, then if your crazy, youll probably kill them. there are insane people in the world, theres nothing we can do to stop the killings.



So the thing is why should we care about people who is getting killed if we don't know them? Like u said, deaths aint stopping, so, why have a bad time when you arent even connected with the victim? I mean if a relative or a friend dies ofc you will be sad but because someone has died when u don?t know them?


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## nami26 (Jul 8, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> So the thing is why should we care about people who is getting killed if we don't know them? Like u said, deaths aint stopping, so, why have a bad time when you arent even connected with the victim? I mean if a relative or a friend dies ofc you will be sad but because someone has died when u don?t know them?



because that person that got killed, who you may not know, well that person could be me or you, or someone you know, if the violence makes its way to your area, or mine, or anyone else you know or care about (obviously not a lot)...


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## MayorSkittles (Jul 8, 2016)

nami26 said:


> I think it was horrible, but the whole issue I have with it is, all the people who are like Black Lives Matter, and it's like yeah, but ALL LIVES MATTER!!!!! And theyre all like wow all these black people are dying because of the racist cops, and yes they are, but its because most of the time, those black people did something wrong, like reach for a gun or rob a store, or SHOOT THE WHITE COP IN THE FCKING FIRST PLACE:::
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> nothing cops do anymore is ok with the country, the people are gonna find SOMETHING to gripe about and its disgusting.



1) No one is saying all lives DONT matter; obviously they do, but right now the lives of minorities are being valued less by the hands of racist bigots. Black Lives Matter is all about black=white not black>white. 

2) well the things that they are "griping" about are actually issues and events that show what's wrong with the present system. That 4 year old WITNESSED her own father's death and if that's not something big enough to show the problems of today's society then I don't know what "gripe" is big enough to show it. And there are a lot of things that cops do that people are pleased with. Before the snipers started raining hell on the cops they were protesting ALONGSIDE the Black Lives Matter supporters. Then when the snipers started shooting, they helped the protesters get safe and went TOWARDS the gunfire to stop it, making sure everyone was safe despite the fact that they were the targets. I don't know about you but I think that's something they did that was "ok"

3) Even if they were doing something wrong it doesn't mean they have to get shot and killed for it, especially for the crimes you listed. They still have families and people that care about them.

All in all, no one deserves to die in such horrible ways and the fact that our fellow citizens do not feel protected by their own police force is horrendous.


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## f11 (Jul 8, 2016)

nami26 said:


> Its not gonna stop. Never. The world is a disgusting place and will be become more dangerous by the minute. There's white people who get killed because of police brutality all the time, but no one reports that. Im not racist, its just I feel that black people purposefully target white cops. And also, in Ferguson, the black people of the town destroyed innocent peoples homes and killed the people through their riots, for no apparent reason. This is what the world has come to in our generation. and its horrible. I do feel bad for the families of the people who were killed, but people get killed everyday for their beliefs, skin color, and religion, but for some odd, unknown reason, only the deaths of black people in police brutslity cases are mentioned in world and national news. makes me wonder a bit.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...


Dang negros targeting cops being violent and destroying cities amiright

anyway ur pretty racist by looking at your stereotypes and the media your being spoon fed, but I hope you know you can catch THESE HANDS for the low low price of 0 btb. What a great deal!


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## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> Oh wow, just wow. Yes "all lives matter" nobody is denying this, but at the moment there is a great amount of police brutality towards black people. Black Lives Matter is a movement that was created to basically say stop killing black people, it is not putting black people above others.  Here is a short video on the all lives matter vs black lives matter that explains the movement quickly and simply.
> 
> "Those black people did something wrong"? Quite a few times, specially recently, police brutality towards black people is become really prevalent, very often for no reason. Even if someone did rob a store, why would that be a reason for getting shot?! You should not be shot for 'robbing' a store, carrying a gun, or anything like that, that is not a reason to get shot, there is no excuse for shooting someone in those (and similar) cases. Remember the Charleston shooting? The shooter didn't get shot, he got taken to prison, so if you can shoot 9 people dead and not get shot, why would you think carrying a gun or robbing a store is a reason to get shot?! If police are shooting people for no good reason, they should not be police and should not be allowed to carry a gun.
> 
> ...



Actually, quite a few black lives matter supporters don't think white lives matter. This supporter directly said so in a debate with a white student at Harvard.




There's a few examples of that in this video, too. 14:40 shows some reaaaal hypocrisy in the black lives matter movement. If a white person _ever_ said "Here's 10 facts you probably don't know because you're black" people would lose their ****.




And maybe the police are on edge when it comes to black lives matter demonstrations because of what happened in Dallas yesterday. And this, footage of the riot in Baltimore.




Or this, what a black lives matter leader says will happen if Trump gets elected



Or this, another riot by black lives matter at a Trump rally.





I get that black lives matter may have started by people wanting to spread awareness, but it's practical application has been disastrous.


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## Gregriii (Jul 8, 2016)

seriously who the **** cares about SKIN COLOR LIKE IT'S SHOULDNT BE A BIG DEAL

IF YOU ARE BLACK AND ATTACK THE COPS YOU ARE AN *******
IF YOU ARE WHITE AND ATTACK THE COPS YOU ARE AN *******

pretty easy right


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## nami26 (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> Actually, quite a few black lives matter supporters don't think white lives matter. This supporter directly said so in a debate with a white student at Harvard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you Miii, someone who finally understands and shows the proof. Thank youuu


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## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

nami26 said:


> Thank you Miii, someone who finally understands and shows the proof. Thank youuu



Again, I'm not against changing the way black people are treated, and I doubt that you are either. I understand that black people are prejudged, but I think it's partly because they're associated with the exceptionally vocal minority, and the violence and racial bias (which is strange, considering those are two things they're protesting) that's become part of the black lives matter movement.


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## LambdaDelta (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> I get that black lives matter may have started by people wanting to spread awareness, but it's practical application has been disastrous.



news flash, ALL social movements in the history of everything are like this. it doesn't make them any less invalid


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## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

LambdaDelta said:


> news flash, ALL social movements in the history of everything are like this. it doesn't make them any less invalid



So you're agreeing with me that they're invalid? Or did you mean to type valid?


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## LambdaDelta (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> So you're agreeing with me that they're invalid? Or did you mean to type valid?



the latter, hooray for sleep deprivation


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## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

LambdaDelta said:


> the latter, hooray for sleep deprivation



It'd be a whole lot more valid if they quit rioting in the streets, attacking people, assaulting police officers and SHOOTING THEM, and then saying that _they're_ the real victims.


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## LambdaDelta (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> It'd be a whole lot more valid if they quit rioting in the streets, attacking people, assaulting police officers and SHOOTING THEM, and then saying that _they're_ the real victims.



unless you can prove its the majority that are like this, and not just an out of line ****ty subgroup within the whole, no, it's already completely valid


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## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

LambdaDelta said:


> unless you can prove its the majority that are like this, and not just an out of line ****ty subgroup within the whole, no, it's already completely valid



_Look_ at how many people are in the Baltimore Riot, and how many are in the Trump riot! And do some research of your own, you'll find more videos like this. The idea that started it all was great, but the movement itself is leading towards regression, and open hatred of white people.

- - - Post Merge - - -

And just in case that wasn't enough, here's another disturbing article where black lives matter supporters on social media are praising the Dallas snipers that shot 10 cops last night. This movement has turned toxic.


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## lovendor (Jul 8, 2016)

When it comes to the Black Lives Matter movement, I cannot even speak about it so openly in my own home because of a relative who currently serves as a police officer. I love him, I know he wouldn't reach the level of corruption some cops have, but I stand by this movement. Cops take the oath to protect and serve the people and bring those who disrupt the peace to justice. They leave their homes for work almost everyday knowing that there is a chance they might not come home, and that is the risk they are willing to take. 
I am an Asian-American. When I leave my home, I don't expect to _not_ return. When people affected by police brutality leave their homes (or maybe NOT) for the day, they don't anticipate being dead within the next 24-hours. In social movements there will always be those more radical than others, but every person is different and not every person's actions is a direct reflection of the movement as a whole. There have been many peaceful protests held throughout the country, but the mass media only ever highlights events when they've gone wrong.

As you can see from the Dallas PD's twitter, the cops were marching alongside the protesters. Those that were shot were indeed cops, but they were mixed in with the protesters, and mind you a number of them were hurt in all the confusion as well. These shooters, even if they claim they're doing this for the movement, are not truly apart of it if they're willing to endanger lives for the sake of proving their own agenda. 

I think one of the annoyances with the All Lives Matter movement is that yes it is true that all lives matter, but there is SO much hypocrisy within those who use that term. I know several BLM activists who also report those who are white and have been unjustly killed by police (ever heard of Dylan Noble recently?) and yet you never hear outrage from the ALM people. Just as people are upset by those who proclaim to be associated the BLM who do bring harm to others, are some under ALM any better when they can only negatively comment on black police brutality cases without bringing to light to cases where the person isn't black? Do some only care to say All Lives Matter when other people have the nerve to say anything other than All?


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## LambdaDelta (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> _Look_ at how many people are in the Baltimore Riot, and how many are in the Trump riot! And do some research of your own, you'll find more videos like this. The idea that started it all was great, but the movement itself is leading towards regression, and open hatred of white people.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> And just in case that wasn't enough, here's another disturbing article where black lives matter supporters on social media are praising the Dallas snipers that shot 10 cops last night. This movement has turned toxic.



you honestly seem like you're just actively looking for reasons to make the movement invalid at this point, so uh....

yeah, not gonna bother with this waste of a discussion anymore.


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## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

lovendor said:


> When it comes to the Black Lives Matter movement, I cannot even speak about it so openly in my own home because of a relative who currently serves as a police officer. I love him, I know he wouldn't reach the level of corruption some cops have, but I stand by this movement. Cops take the oath to protect and serve the people and bring those who disrupt the peace to justice. They leave their homes for work almost everyday knowing that there is a chance they might not come home, and that is the risk they are willing to take.
> I am an Asian-American. When I leave my home, I don't expect to _not_ return. When people affected by police brutality leave their homes (or maybe NOT) for the day, they don't anticipate being dead within the next 24-hours. In social movements there will always be those more radical than others, but every person is different and not every person's actions is a direct reflection of the movement as a whole. There have been many peaceful protests held throughout the country, but the mass media only ever highlights events when they've gone wrong.
> 
> As you can see from the Dallas PD's twitter, the cops were marching alongside the protesters. Those that were shot were indeed cops, but they were mixed in with the protesters, and mind you a number of them were hurt in all the confusion as well. These shooters, even if they claim they're doing this for the movement, are not truly apart of it if they're willing to endanger lives for the sake of proving their own agenda.
> ...



So because people that say all lives matter aren't rioting in the streets and taking over gay pride parades for 30 minutes, forcing the organizers of pride to exclude police officers from future pride events (black lives matter was an honored guest at that event, by the way, not a group put on the back burner) they aren't better than people promoting a racially biased organization to begin with? I mean is an organization called black lives matter really the way to promote racial equality? And is feminism (off topic, but still a good example), a gender biased ideology, a good way to promote gender equality? No. Black lives matter should have been called all lives matter, but it wasn't because it focuses on black victimization, regressive views towards white people, violence, destruction and chaos, as video after video, and article after article will demonstrate.

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LambdaDelta said:


> you honestly seem like you're just actively looking for reasons to make the movement invalid at this point, so uh....
> 
> yeah, not gonna bother with this waste of a discussion anymore.



If giving you real life examples of why it's no longer a beneficial movement is enough to make you give and up and walk away, then I guess this is a waste of time. At least you acknowledged that.


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## Fleshy (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> Actually, quite a few black lives matter supporters don't think white lives matter. This supporter directly said so in a debate with a white student at Harvard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Right, I should have said that the majority* believe all lives matter, not all. Of course there are some people on the extreme end with their beliefs and while I don't agree with it, I don't blame them for having said thoughts. Anger, hurt, loss and pain evokes certain reactions in people, it's not right, but it's the way it is, anger brings that out in people. For example, if someone murdered your family member, your first reaction toward them is likely to be that you hate them and want to kill them, it's not right, but that's what pain does to people. To me, the guy in the first video seems to say that white life doesn't have value, as in no life has value above another, and in order to bring up black people white people have to die (as death of black people occurred to bring up white people) I think that's a very skewed way of looking at it, but a few people seeing it that way shouldn't discredit the whole movement. 

Riots aren't friendly, in history they never have been, but they happen in retaliation to something. I'm not saying I support violence in the riots, from either party, but they should never have been given a reason or incentive to riot in the first place. When it comes to movements like this, there will always be extremists. 



Miii said:


> It'd be a whole lot more valid if they quit rioting in the streets, attacking people, assaulting police officers and SHOOTING THEM, and then saying that _they're_ the real victims.



Again, you're generalising. Yes, violence is not the answer, but their anger is valid. "SHOOTING THEM" that's happening on both 'sides' of this. Nothing ever changes by being silent. Yes black lives matter was based on black victimisation, because that's what evoked the riots? When people riot for benefits for poor people, should they also riot for the rich? When people riot for gay rights, should they riot for straight rights too? No. I'm not at all disagreeing that there's serious problems, but there are serious problems on both 'sides', nobody should be dying, nobody, not black people, not the police, nobody.


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## LambdaDelta (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> If giving you real life examples of why it's no longer a beneficial movement is enough to make you give and up and walk away, then I guess this is a waste of time. At least you acknowledged that.



More like that you've proven that you never had any intention of treating it as valid in the first place, but hey. whatever you want to believe.



Also re: black lives matter/all lives matter, feminism, and such: I think this image I found recently sums it all up pretty perfectly



Spoiler


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## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

LambdaDelta said:


> Moreso that you've proven that you never had any intention of treating it as valid in the first place, but hey, whatever you want to believe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you bothered to read any of my earlier comments, then you'd see that I'm for changing the way black people in America are viewed and how they're prejudged, but I don't think that black lives matter is going about it the right way AT ALL. They were literally destroying public property in Baltimore, breaking store windows and car windows. WHAT DID THAT ACCOMPLISH? NOTHING!!! In fact, show me ONE thing black lives matter has accomplished since it's birth. Just. One. Thing. I mean besides selfishly and condescendingly interrupting the memorial for the shooting in Orlando to push their agenda and inform white people of _10 facts they don't know because they're white._ Unbelievable.


----------



## Gregriii (Jul 8, 2016)

love how racism only affects black people and not other ethnicities

#blacklivesmatter

#notasiansactually

- - - Post Merge - - -



LambdaDelta said:


> More like that you've proven that you never had any intention of treating it as valid in the first place, but hey. whatever you want to believe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



well minorities are almost never taken in account like male rape, attacks against cis, etc so???


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jul 8, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> love how racism only affects black people and not other ethnicities
> 
> #blacklivesmatter
> 
> ...




It's almost like the stereotype for asians has nothing to do with aggression and gang culture so of course there's no asianlivesmatter




If you think people only complain about racism towards black people then you need to do more reading.




Btw nobody in this thread actually believes the snipers were a part of BLM right? Because that would be embarassing. Why would somebody starting shooting cops with all that gear at a protest? It's almost like that was intentional to shift blame.


----------



## Gregriii (Jul 8, 2016)

That Zephyr Guy said:


> It's almost like the stereotype for asians has nothing to do with aggression and gang culture so of course there's no asianlivesmatter
> 
> 
> 
> ...



well the Word racism is often afilliated with black people so I'm just saying it seems people often ignore that there are more ways of racism OFC most of them don't include killing 

btw the asian thing was a joke


----------



## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> Right, I should have said that the majority* believe all lives matter, not all. Of course there are some people on the extreme end with their beliefs and while I don't agree with it, I don't blame them for having said thoughts. Anger, hurt, loss and pain evokes certain reactions in people, it's not right, but it's the way it is, anger brings that out in people. For example, if someone murdered your family member, your first reaction toward them is likely to be that you hate them and want to kill them, it's not right, but that's what pain does to people. To me, the guy in the first video seems to say that white life doesn't have value, as in no life has value above another, and in order to bring up black people white people have to die (as death of black people occurred to bring up white people) I think that's a very skewed way of looking at it, but a few people seeing it that way shouldn't discredit the whole movement.
> 
> Riots aren't friendly, in history they never have been, but they happen in retaliation to something. I'm not saying I support violence in the riots, from either party, but they should never have been given a reason or incentive to riot in the first place. When it comes to movements like this, there will always be extremists.
> 
> ...



Rioting and destroying public property, vandalizing and _looting_ 24 businesses, _burning down a convenience store_ and acting like stupid spoiled children not getting their way and throwing a temper tantrum solves nothing, and absolutely discredits what they claim to stand for. I don't care how angry they are; what they did was wrong, and there's no making excuses for their actions. It wasn't just a_ few_ people rioting in Baltimore, either. Go watch the video. There were a LOT of people. 

Another thing that annoys me is that the shooting of Mike Brown, which is what started black lives matter, was _seriously_ misrepresented in the media. Mike Brown didn't have his hands up, he didn't say "don't shoot"; he fought with the officer, tried to take his gun and was shot when he charged the officer. This was backed up by the forensic report, and eyewitnesses. Don't you think a movement should start with honesty and accurate representation of facts?


----------



## Fleshy (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> If you bothered to read any of my earlier comments, then you'd see that I'm for changing the way black people in America are viewed and how they're prejudged, but I don't think that black lives matter is going about it the right way AT ALL. They were literally destroying public property in Baltimore, breaking store windows and car windows. WHAT DID THAT ACCOMPLISH? NOTHING!!! In fact, show me ONE thing black lives matter has accomplished since it's birth. Just. One. Thing. I mean besides selfishly and condescendingly interrupting the memorial for the shooting in Orlando to push their agenda and inform white people of _10 facts they don't know because they're white._ Unbelievable.



How do you suppose we go about changing the way black people are treated then? Obviously you can't react with anger because that invalidates your cause, so how then? You're saying how it's all wrong, but I don't see you proposing any other ways to go around it? It's riots, riots are violent, unfortunately, but that's the way it is. Violence often sparks change, it's sad that it has to progress to that point, however. 

Although you claim not to be, you seem to be completely demonizing and condemning the movement without even mentioning or considering their side. I'm sure nobody here thinks the movement is flawless, nobody is saying that, I'm sure _very_ few people agree with the violence and suchlike from the BLM movement.

Campaign Zero was started, calling for things such as body cams and a limit on police force, in an attempt to lower the rates of police brutality. Even if they haven't "achieved" anything, this is a call for justice, things like this take years. Do you think the people who took part in the Stonewall riots were in the wrong also? They were violent towards the police, damaged properties, etc. Soon after the stonewall riots, the Gay Liberation front was formed, the first organisation for lg*bt rights to use "gay" in their name. The Stonewall riots happened in retaliation to discrimination and violence against lgbt people, violence was involved, and in the end, the outcome was mainly positive for lgbt people. 




Miii said:


> Rioting and destroying public property, vandalizing and _looting_ 24 businesses, _burning down a convenience store_ and acting like stupid spoiled children not getting their way and throwing a temper tantrum solves nothing, and absolutely discredits what they claim to stand for. I don't care how angry they are; what they did was wrong, and there's no making excuses for their actions. It wasn't just a_ few_ people rioting in Baltimore, either. Go watch the video. There were a LOT of people.
> 
> Another thing that annoys me is that the shooting of Mike Brown, which is what started black lives matter, was _seriously_ misrepresented in the media. Mike Brown didn't have his hands up, he didn't say "don't shoot"; he fought with the officer, tried to take his gun and was shot when he charged the officer. This was backed up by the forensic report, and eyewitnesses. Don't you think a movement should start with honesty and accurate representation of facts?



I'm pretty much going to be repeating myself here, again. I never stated that only a small amount of people took part in the riots? I know many people did. Nor am I excusing violence used on either side, I have stated that, again and again, I do not agree with the violence and I am not supporting or excusing it, I'm just saying that I _understand_ the anger. Again, if that's not the right way to go about it, what is? what are your other ideas?

I do think movements should start with an accurate representation of facts. As far as I know, after the altercation where Brown went after the officers gun, he fled, knowingly unarmed. The officer then, knowing he was unarmed, decided to shoot, at least 6 of those shots hitting Mike Brown. I'm not agreeing with misinterpretation, but that was wrong whatever way you look at it, there was no need to shoot him, surely something else could have been done? I also think the misinterpretation of Mike's death wasn't intentional as it escalated so quickly, with reporters all claiming different events. 

Also, on a post originally created regarding the death of Philando Castile, you never even mentioned his death or how it was wrong, you went straight on to say how "people are disgusting" for the shootings of the police (which is disgusting, yes), as if the snipers were 'members' of the black lives matter movement? Then your next post on this thread was to use everything you can to demonise the movement. I think it's clear what you believe and where your priorities lie. 



Gregriii said:


> love how racism only affects black people and not other ethnicities
> 
> #blacklivesmatter
> 
> ...



Who said racism only affects black people? I think we all know that racism doesn't not only affect black people, but in this certain case it seems to be aimed at black people. 

Male victims of rape and abuse are getting more recognition and support lately, and rightfully so, it should have happened long ago. What cis people get attacked and killed for being cis?


----------



## nintendofan85 (Jul 8, 2016)

It makes me very unhappy. I will admit that I don't know that many details about either though. I'll look up more about it, though.


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## piichinu (Jul 8, 2016)

i hate police

- - - Post Merge - - -



Miii said:


> We're not all gun crazy.



sorry miii but youre definitely one of those gun crazy texans rofl


----------



## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> How do you suppose we go about changing the way black people are treated then? Obviously you can't react with anger because that invalidates your cause, so how then? You're saying how it's all wrong, but I don't see you proposing any other ways to go around it? It's riots, riots are violent, unfortunately, but that's the way it is. Violence often sparks change, it's sad that it has to progress to that point, however.
> 
> Although you claim not to be, you seem to be completely demonizing and condemning the movement without even mentioning or considering their side. I'm sure nobody here thinks the movement is flawless, nobody is saying that, I'm sure _very_ few people agree with the violence and suchlike from the BLM movement.
> 
> ...



My ideas for changing how black people are viewed without rioting and destroying public property include... 

1. BEING the kind of person you want to be seen as. If a black person says that white lives don't matter, or if they're rioting in the streets, attacking cops, looting businesses etc. they're obviously not going to be viewed as the upstanding citizens they want to be viewed as. On the other hand, if they keep their protests peaceful (like some of their protests have been), and stick to delivering facts, people are more likely to take them and their cause seriously.
2. Deal with discrimination via legal action. If you honestly believe you were denied a job, or housing because of your race despite the fact that you were equally qualified or equally capable of paying your bills, then take it to court because that's already against the law.
3. Spread awareness using factual evidence (statistics and studies), and make it readily available on the black lives matter website, on social media, hand out flyers if you're doing a march, etc. and keep it consistent.
4. Before organizing a march, make sure everyone involved agrees to keep things peaceful, so riots and violence can be averted.

Not all protests in the past were violent. The women's suffrage movement had a number of peaceful protests. The only violence in that situation came from people that disagreed with their protest, and the protesters themselves were the ones getting hurt by people throwing rocks or spitting on them. They understood that violence and chaos would only hurt their cause, and I think black lives matter could learn a thing or two from that.

- - - Post Merge - - -



shiida said:


> i hate police
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



Not really. I'm absolutely for people having the right to own guns, and when people tell me I'm wrong, I debate them on the subject. I don't collect guns, and it's not like I'm out on the range every Saturday.

Also, you hate police? Who exactly would you call, then, if your life was in danger? Police officers risk their lives every day and deal with the dangerous situations no other citizen would want to deal with. Talk about unappreciative.


----------



## piichinu (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> My ideas for changing how black people are viewed without rioting and destroying public property include...
> 
> 1. BEING the kind of person you want to be seen as. If a black person says that white lives don't matter, or if they're rioting in the streets, attacking cops, looting businesses etc. they're obviously not going to be viewed as the upstanding citizens they want to be viewed as. On the other hand, if they keep their protests peaceful (like some of their protests have been), and stick to delivering facts, people are more likely to take them and their cause seriously.
> 2. Deal with discrimination via legal action. If you honestly believe you were denied a job, or housing because of your race despite the fact that you were equally qualified or equally capable of paying your bills, then take it to court because that's already against the law.
> ...



lets talk about why this is dumb
1) some people do protest peacefully but no matter what racists will still stereotype everyone hahaha! why do u think whitie school shooters dont give white people a bad rep? _cuz racism_
2) the problem with this is that most of the time employers will make up some dumb excuse in order to avoid it and nothing will happen XD! the legal system is not perfect!
3) this already happens..............
4) lmao u make it sound so easy dont u


----------



## Gregriii (Jul 8, 2016)

shiida said:


> lets talk about why this is dumb
> 1) some people do protest peacefully but no matter what racists will still stereotype everyone hahaha! why do u think whitie school shooters dont give white people a bad rep? _cuz racism_
> 2) the problem with this is that most of the time employers will make up some dumb excuse in order to avoid it and nothing will happen XD! the legal system is not perfect!
> 3) this already happens..............
> 4) lmao u make it sound so easy dont u



nah, the united states is well known for the whities who love shooting schools and it gives them a bad rep lol


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## piichinu (Jul 8, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> nah, the united states is well known for the whities who love shooting schools and it gives them a bad rep lol



missed my point entirely


----------



## Fleshy (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> My ideas for changing how black people are viewed without rioting and destroying public property include...
> 
> 1. BEING the kind of person you want to be seen as. If a black person says that white lives don't matter, or if they're rioting in the streets, attacking cops, looting businesses etc. they're obviously not going to be viewed as the upstanding citizens they want to be viewed as. On the other hand, if they keep their protests peaceful (like some of their protests have been), and stick to delivering facts, people are more likely to take them and their cause seriously.
> 2. Deal with discrimination via legal action. If you honestly believe you were denied a job, or housing because of your race despite the fact that you were equally qualified or equally capable of paying your bills, then take it to court because that's already against the law.
> ...



I do agree with your ideas on how to make a change peacefully, and I think a lot of people have been going about it in such a manor, it just usually happens that the riots start suddenly after a death, people are angry and they retaliate differently. Nobody goes "oh no, my friend was shot, lets add that to the list of people killed by the police this year, now, time to phone everyone I know an organise a peaceful way to combat this!" What you said there does make a whole lot of sense, I just don't think that it is at all that easy in practice. Also, +1 to what shiida said in response. 

Yes not all protests are violent, but a large number of them are, ideally no violent protests would take place though, obviously. Do you discredit the efforts of the people involved in the Stonewall riots because a number of them were violent?


----------



## Gregriii (Jul 8, 2016)

shiida said:


> missed my point entirely



lol I read your post like 5 times and didnt get yout first point  

if u could explain it 

I mean u were probably being sarcasting and yes I get the sarcasms but idk


----------



## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

shiida said:


> lets talk about why this is dumb
> 1) some people do protest peacefully but no matter what racists will still stereotype everyone hahaha! why do u think whitie school shooters dont give white people a bad rep? _cuz racism_
> 2) the problem with this is that most of the time employers will make up some dumb excuse in order to avoid it and nothing will happen XD! the legal system is not perfect!
> 3) this already happens..............
> 4) lmao u make it sound so easy dont u



1. Stereotypes are proven wrong by people that go against them, not people that go along with them and do what they're stereotyped as doing.
2. No **** the legal system isn't perfect, but if you can prove that it boiled down to nothing more than race, than you win, and people can be aware of how that business really views potential employees.
3. I know, genius, and I'm saying that's a good thing.
4. That's not even a real point. I'm guessing you're somewhere around the age of 15. And surely an organization keeps track of how many members are attending a protest, or an event. Send out a form email, have them sign it, email it back, and you're done. And even if you can't hold someone legally responsible for the agreement they signed, it shows that the organization gives a **** about promoting peaceful protest, and that they're making an effort.


----------



## Gregriii (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> 1. Stereotypes are proven wrong by people that go against them, not people that go along with them and do what they're stereotyped as doing.
> 2. No **** the legal system isn't perfect, but if you can prove that it boiled down to nothing more than race, than you win, and people can be aware of how that business really views potential employees.
> 3. I know, genius, and I'm saying that's a good thing.
> 4. That's not even a real point. I'm guessing you're somewhere around the age of 15. And surely an organization keeps track of how many members are attending a protest, or an event. Send out a form email, have them sign it, email it back, and you're done. And even if you can't hold someone legally responsible for the agreement they signed, it shows that the organization gives a **** about promoting peaceful protest, and that they're making an effort.



May I ask why his (right???) age matters?


----------



## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> I do agree with your ideas on how to make a change peacefully, and I think a lot of people have been going about it in such a manor, it just usually happens that the riots start suddenly after a death, people are angry and they retaliate differently. Nobody goes "oh no, my friend was shot, lets add that to the list of people killed by the police this year, now, time to phone everyone I know an organise a peaceful way to combat this!" What you said there does make a whole lot of sense, I just don't think that it is at all that easy in practice. Also, +1 to what shiida said in response.
> 
> Yes not all protests are violent, but a large number of them are, ideally no violent protests would take place though, obviously. Do you discredit the efforts of the people involved in the Stonewall riots because a number of them were violent?



I get that laws in the 60s were against gay people having rights. That's messed up. At the same time, part of the reason that club was raided was because they were selling liquor without a license. 

But it's not the 60s anymore. Things are different now and everyone has the same rights. Gay marriage is legal. Interracial marriage is legal. Discriminating against someone for their race, gender, ethnicity, weight, height or physical capability is illegal. We aren't subject to laws like gay people were in the 60s.


----------



## piichinu (Jul 8, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> lol I read your post like 5 times and didnt get yout first point
> 
> if u could explain it
> 
> I mean u were probably being sarcasting and yes I get the sarcasms but idk



i wasnt being sarcastic but if u dont understand i really cba to explain. you speak spanish right? maybe ill try to translate later or something if im not lazy



Miii said:


> 1. Stereotypes are proven wrong by people that go against them, not people that go along with them and do what they're stereotyped as doing.
> 2. No **** the legal system isn't perfect, but if you can prove that it boiled down to nothing more than race, than you win, and people can be aware of how that business really views potential employees.
> 3. I know, genius, and I'm saying that's a good thing.
> 4. That's not even a real point. I'm guessing you're somewhere around the age of 15. And surely an organization keeps track of how many members are attending a protest, or an event. Send out a form email, have them sign it, email it back, and you're done. And even if you can't hold someone legally responsible for the agreement they signed, it shows that the organization gives a **** about promoting peaceful protest, and that they're making an effort.



1) it doesnt matter if people go against them, its nt that easy for stereotypes to be "reversed?" even if people dont act violent theres always gonna be that one group of people that insists that they do. and thats the problem. you need everyone to cooperate and open their eyes, not just the oppressed group to "work hard" or whatever omg
2) like i said most employers are _not that dumb_ and will be able to come up with an excuse.
3) my point was is that it already happens and it's not working yet because some people are still blind to the facts :' )
4) yes im 16 how does that matter? u always act like an old fart if we're gonna bring up age...
ok yes it shows that theyre making an effort but u think racists are gonna care about that

my problem with you is that you make it seem like its up to the oppressed group of people to "fix" racism and not the people with the incorrect perception and close-mindedness to be overruled lmao. what you dont seem to understand is that even by doing all of what youre saying, people are still going to deny the facts. youre acting as if none of the things youve suggested are happening already, which is pretty disrespectful lol.


----------



## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> May I ask why his (right???) age matters?



Because his response was so typical of someone his age, and showed his immaturity. It's like when people end their declarative statements with a question mark?


----------



## Red Cat (Jul 8, 2016)

I wonder if these events are going to cause everyone to pause and try to figure out how to restore the trust gap between police and their communities. Knowing America, probably not, but it would be nice if we could all agree that the two black people killed by police and the five police killed in Dallas were all senseless killings and none of them deserved to die. Instead of arguing which is worse, it would be better to take this as an opportunity to remind everyone what their responsibilities are.

For police, it's to serve and protect their communities. Being a police is inherently a risky job and you have to accept those risks when you choose to become a cop. You can't just shoot everyone who reaches for their pocket in the name of self-preservation. Obviously there are cases where lethal force is necessary such as when the police killed the Dallas shooter, but lethal force should be a last resort, not a precautionary measure. Police also need to stop defending the inappropriate and illegal actions of each other. Being a cop is a professional job; it's not being part of a "brotherhood". To serve and protect also means to protect civilians from bad cops.

For civilians, it's to cooperate with law enforcement and notify the police of suspicious activity. We can demand justice while also being respectful and appreciative of the many cops who do their job very well and protect us from much more dangerous criminals than bad cops.


----------



## piichinu (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> Because his response was so typical of someone his age, and showed his immaturity. It's like when people end their declarative statements with a question mark?



you used the wrong form of "than" you should have used "then" but am i *****ing about that?


----------



## Fleshy (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> I get that laws in the 60s were against gay people having rights. That's messed up. At the same time, part of the reason that club was raided was because they were selling liquor without a license.
> 
> But it's not the 60s anymore. Things are different now and everyone has the same rights. Gay marriage is legal. Interracial marriage is legal. Discriminating against someone for their race, gender, ethnicity, weight, height or physical capability is illegal. We aren't subject to laws like gay people were in the 60s.



So the violence the people used in the riots and protests then was alright? But now being angry and using violence discredits you?

The rights people have and the fact we aren't "subject to laws" like that anymore doesn't matter when people are literally being killed outright.


----------



## Gregriii (Jul 8, 2016)

shiida said:


> i wasnt being sarcastic but if u dont understand i really cba to explain. you speak spanish right? maybe ill try to translate later or something if im not lazy
> 
> 
> 
> ...



idk when u said that whities arent stereotyped because racism I got pretty lost

I mean I got all the points but the first  my problem isnt because the grammatic tho so translating into spanish wouldnt help so


----------



## Fleshy (Jul 8, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> I wonder if these events are going to cause everyone to pause and try to figure out how to restore the trust gap between police and their communities. Knowing America, probably not, but it would be nice if we could all agree that the two black people killed by police and the five police killed in Dallas were all senseless killings and none of them deserved to die. Instead of arguing which is worse, it would be better to take this as an opportunity to remind everyone what their responsibilities are.
> 
> For police, it's to serve and protect their communities. Being a police is inherently a risky job and you have to accept those risks when you choose to become a cop. You can't just shoot everyone who reaches for their pocket in the name of self-preservation. Obviously there are cases where lethal force is necessary such as when the police killed the Dallas shooter, but lethal force should be a last resort, not a precautionary measure. Police also need to stop defending the inappropriate and illegal actions of each other. Being a cop is a professional job; it's not being part of a "brotherhood". To serve and protect also means to protect civilians from bad cops.
> 
> For civilians, it's to cooperate with law enforcement and notify the police of suspicious activity. We can demand justice while also being respectful and appreciative of the many cops who do their job very well and protect us from much more dangerous criminals than bad cops.



Sadly I doubt it will, I agree though, all the deaths were tragic and unnecessarily, it's time something was done before things escalate even more and more lives are lost. If only there was a simple and easy solution, but it seems like now there is that strong hate and distrust there, and I don't see it being mended.


----------



## piichinu (Jul 8, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> idk when u said that whities arent stereotyped because racism I got pretty lost
> 
> I mean I got all the points but the first  my problem isnt because the grammatic tho so translating into spanish wouldnt help so



okay, what im saying is this
when someone black does something violent, it immediately gets held against all black people
if someone middle eastern performs an act of terrorism, middle easterns living in america get made fun of
when somebody white does a school shooting, its never held against the white race and the occurrence receives different treatment compared to the first 2 examples i mentioned 

this is because of racism

does that make more sense?


----------



## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

shiida said:


> i wasnt being sarcastic but if u dont understand i really cba to explain. you speak spanish right? maybe ill try to translate later or something if im not lazy
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not saying that none of what I suggested is already happening. Nowhere did I say that. FleshyBro asked me what my solutions for changing how black people are viewed (without rioting and destroying public property) were, and I gave my answer. 

I'm not saying that it's up to people facing racial discrimination to fix it themselves, but they are trying, and some of the methods they're using are setting them back, not helping them progress, and I was commenting on that. It's obvious that burning down a convenience store to protest the death of a man that attacked a police officer isn't going to help, and that robbing 24 businesses isn't going to make racists or people that have a distorted view of black people go "Oh wow, I was SO wrong."

If black lives matter supporters care SO deeply about how they're viewed by others, then they wouldn't be saying that white lives don't matter (in the first video I linked on page 3), that white people need to either die or go live in a cave (in the second video I linked on page 3), and they wouldn't be supporting the shooting of 10 cops on social media (in the article I linked on page 4).

And if there are people that will remain racist, and ignore facts forever, then why are their opinions important??? Why should their incredibly biased, unchanging views of black people be of concern to black lives matter?

- - - Post Merge - - -



FleshyBro said:


> So the violence the people used in the riots and protests then was alright? But now being angry and using violence discredits you?
> 
> The rights people have and the fact we aren't "subject to laws" like that anymore doesn't matter when people are literally being killed outright.



I didn't say that I agreed with the violence they used. I don't think they should have pelted the police officers cars with bottles.


----------



## Gregriii (Jul 8, 2016)

shiida said:


> okay, what im saying is this
> when someone black does something violent, it immediately gets held against all black people
> if someone middle eastern performs an act of terrorism, middle easterns living in america get made fun of
> when somebody white does a school shooting, its never held against the white race and the occurrence receives different treatment compared to the first 2 examples i mentioned
> ...



OOHH okay now better thanks!  
I need to improve my english comprehension


----------



## piichinu (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> I'm not saying that none of what I suggested is already happening. Nowhere did I say that. FleshyBro asked me what my solutions for changing how black people are viewed (without rioting and destroying public property) were, and I gave my answer.
> 
> I'm not saying that it's up to people facing racial discrimination to fix it themselves, but they are trying, and some of the methods they're using are setting them back, not helping them progress, and I was commenting on that. It's obvious that burning down a convenience store to protest the death of a man that attacked a police officer isn't going to help, and that robbing 24 businesses isn't going to make racists or people that have a distorted view of black people go "Oh wow, I was SO wrong."
> 
> ...



some of the methods theyre using are setting them back obviously. but why do oppressed groups have to try so much harder and be so much better with the **** treatment theyre given than white people to end up with still less respect and seen as less human than white people? how is it fair that the actions of a few extremists are held against those that are peaceful and really do try nonviolent solutions? 

so ur saying everyone who supports #blacklivesmatter acts like that?? do u know how much worse the things white people say and do to black people are, but white people are not being _heavily_ scrutinized to see if theyre deemed worthy of equal treatment lmao?

their opinions are important because they will ****ing cause damage to people LOL u cant just ignore **** like that. they can make a difference and they can seriously damage the movement and if youre going to deny that youre just acting crazy.


----------



## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

shiida said:


> some of the methods theyre using are setting them back obviously. but why do oppressed groups have to try so much harder and be so much better with the **** treatment theyre given than white people to end up with still less respect and seen as less human than white people? how is it fair that the actions of a few extremists are held against those that are peaceful and really do try nonviolent solutions?
> 
> so ur saying everyone who supports #blacklivesmatter acts like that?? do u know how much worse the things white people say and do to black people are, but white people are not being _heavily_ scrutinized to see if theyre deemed worthy of equal treatment lmao?
> 
> their opinions are important because they will ****ing cause damage to people LOL u cant just ignore **** like that. they can make a difference and they can seriously damage the movement and if youre going to deny that youre just acting crazy.



I didn't say that anyone that supports black lives matter acts like the crazy extremist supporters of it do. I'm fine with the peaceful protesters trying to spread awareness, but a lot of them don't seem to be looking for peaceful protest. Why hold up a gay pride parade for 30 minutes until your demands are met (demands that included no further police participation, even though a gay police officer used the event to propose to his boyfriend)? They made a scene and stopped an event that they were an honored guest at and made the organizers of pride give in to unreasonable demands. Black lives matter did and supported that, and that makes them seem worse and more troublesome as an organization.

The vast majority of people don't view black people as lesser human beings, nor do they think they deserve less respect or fewer rights. There aren't _nearly_ as many racists as everyone seems to think, especially not in my incredibly tolerant generation.

As far as the opinions of racists on black people go... I'm sure some peoples' views of black people will be altered when they're presented with facts, but what are you supposed to do if they refuse to accept facts? Keep protesting to hopefully change their minds, or accept that some people are a lost cause and that holding on to the hurtful things they say does more harm to you than them?


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> *I didn't say that anyone that supports black lives matter acts like the crazy extremist supporters of it do*. I'm fine with the peaceful protesters trying to spread awareness, *but a lot of them* don't seem to be looking for...




bruh


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## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

That Zephyr Guy said:


> bruh



Go look on twitter and see how many people there are praising the Dallas snipers, saying "Those pigs deserved it" and other **** like that. That's not peaceful; that's praising a guy that took 3 police officers away from their family and friends forever. They didn't get a pain-free death either. So you can "bruh" all you want.


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## Fleshy (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> Go look on twitter and see how many people there are praising the Dallas snipers, saying "Those pigs deserved it" and other **** like that. That's not peaceful; that's praising a guy that took 3 police officers away from their family and friends forever. They didn't get a pain-free death either. So you can "bruh" all you want.



5 officers died, nobody here is supporting their killings? I think Zeph meant to point out that you said one thing then contradicted it right away with another statement, nobody (here) is denying that it's terrible that people are dead, we know that it wasn't peaceful


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> Go look on twitter and see how many people there are praising the Dallas snipers, saying "Those pigs deserved it" and other **** like that. That's not peaceful. And there are a lot of them. So you can "bruh" all you want.



There's this rad concept called "the vocal minority"
I think I've seen you use it before.



also I did just look through the dallaspoliceshootings hashtag, and everything I've seen so far has been mostly in support of the victims, which is rad. In fact, the only bad tweet I could find in almost 10 minutes of browsing was this one










so


bruh


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## Red Cat (Jul 8, 2016)

The Dallas shooter does not represent all BLM protesters just like the cops in Louisiana and Minnesota do not represent all cops.


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## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

Here's the article I referenced earlier talking about this.


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## Red Cat (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> Here's the article I referenced earlier talking about this.



Now we know where you get your information from.


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## Miii (Jul 8, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> Now we know where you get your information from.



It's not like I use that to form every opinion I have on everything.


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> Here's the article I referenced earlier talking about this.



YOU'RE GETTING YOUR INFORMATION FROM A CONSPIRACY WEBSITE?





B R U H


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## seliph (Jul 8, 2016)

I love how Miii laughs at people who post sources from Huffington Post or articles that are "emotion based" yet here she is using a conspiracy site that's known to use fear as a tactic for views. Amazing.


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## piichinu (Jul 8, 2016)

this is why i stopped replying to her


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## jiny (Jul 8, 2016)

this is disgusting.


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## radical6 (Jul 8, 2016)

you people need to check your sources

i know itcan be really hard to accept something you don't want to believe, (ex pro blm posts) but when you're so blinded by your opinions you get to the point you're using conspiracy sites its time for a wakeup call. its perfectly okay to be in the middle.

regardless, i feel awful for the child who saw philando get shot. thats horrifying to witness someone you love dying in front of you. its traumatizing. 

and for the dallas shooting, i highly doubt BLM has an actual professional sniper in their ranks, unless they paid for one. seriously, these are people from poor places and or university students. thats the bulk of BLM. you're telling me one of them is just a pro sniper? yeah idk, but BLM as a movement i'm sure don't condone violence and try to be peaceful.

YES there are a couple who want to kill the white race but seriously. they just want black people to stop being shot by cops. there are radicals in every movement.


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## moonford (Jul 8, 2016)

Miii said:


> Here's the article I referenced earlier talking about this.



I find it hilarious that you use a conspiracy website and like Null said you criticise people who use websites like Huffington, really?


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## oath2order (Jul 8, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> I seen the live stream of Lavish/Diamond (his girlfriend) speaking about what happened and it was heart breaking, honestly so heart breaking. I'm so disgusted, I don't even know what to say. The fact a four year old child witnessed this too? I can't even imagine. I feel deeply for the family and everyone mourning.
> 
> Events Murders like this are happening all too often, Philando being murdered only a day after Alton Sterling was also murdered by police. The fact that police can kill people like this for no reason is so, so wrong. Police brutality, primarily towards black people in america, needs to stop. I don't want to overstep or take the conversation away from Philando's murder, but something needs to be done, It's disgusting that this continues to happen.



If it means anything, apparently the kid was out of the car at the time that the shooting happened, so I've heard.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Red Cat said:


> Ten Dallas police officers were shot and 3 have been killed by snipers at a protest in Dallas. It's a ****ing war.
> 
> Update:
> 
> The Dallas PD showed a picture of one of the suspects. He was wearing a camo shirt and had an assault rifle strapped across his body. You'd think that would be a red flag and he'd immediately be arrested, but that's probably considered normal for a gun-crazy state like Texas.



NOT A SUSPECT HE WAS MISTAKENLY IDENTIFIED.



Miii said:


> blah blah black lives matter is evil I cut the original text so it wasn't obnoxious to quote and replaced it with basically the same thing





LambdaDelta said:


> news flash, ALL social movements in the history of everything are like this. it doesn't make them any less invalid



Quoting both here. The issue, at least with what I see, with BLM, is the same as Occupy Wall Street and any other leaderless organization. It allows everyone to be a leader, which is nice in theory, but without a figurehead speaking for the entire organization, it allows fringe radicals to control the tone.



Miii said:


> Here's the article I referenced earlier talking about this.



Look, there's a plethora of reaction images I could use to express how ridiculous it is that you use Info Wars, the site run by Alex Jones (conservative conspiracy theorist), but I'll just let Kanye explain how I feel.


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## MayorSkittles (Jul 8, 2016)

kallie said:


> you people need to check your sources
> 
> i know itcan be really hard to accept something you don't want to believe, (ex pro blm posts) but when you're so blinded by your opinions you get to the point you're using conspiracy sites its time for a wakeup call. its perfectly okay to be in the middle.
> 
> ...



Adding onto your statement about the BLM it's true they don't allow violence. Key leaders for the movement even stated themselves that the shooting was unacceptable.


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## Greninja (Jul 8, 2016)

What was the motive or reason for the killing of the police officers?


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## oath2order (Jul 8, 2016)

Greninja said:


> What was the motive or reason for the killing of the police officers?



I don't think the police have released that information yet


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## Fleshy (Jul 8, 2016)

Greninja said:


> What was the motive or reason for the killing of the police officers?



here is a article from the bbc news basically compiling what they know/ what has been released so far. However, here an officer states that the shooter was angry about the earlier events and this attack was a retaliation to that but as oath said, the police have not released many details about what actually happened.


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## LambdaDelta (Jul 8, 2016)

oath2order said:


> Quoting both here. The issue, at least with what I see, with BLM, is the same as Occupy Wall Street and any other leaderless organization. It allows everyone to be a leader, which is nice in theory, but without a figurehead speaking for the entire organization, it allows fringe radicals to control the tone.



Oh yeah, certainly.

There's also the issue of online discourse having no real legally required moderation to it, as well as movements like this being very easy for people to get swept away in mob mentality via acting on dangerous emotions.


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## Chicha (Jul 9, 2016)

All these senseless murders are heartbreaking.

I think people tend to forget that changes throughout history have rarely been peaceful. As terrible as violence can be, it happens because being peaceful more often than not does not work out in favor to the oppressed. Take a look at the French Revolution. It didn't happen overnight, it happened because of constant periods of injustice and unfairness. Poverty and hunger were also great factors but the most important reason was that the poor were tired of the rich doing nothing for their people. It took years of violence for them to overcome these situations.

Same thing with the fall of the Berlin Wall. People eventually got sick of their awful situation and tore it down. It takes action to change for the better.

Those who have been peaceful throughout history eventually get either a) jail time or b) killed. People also have to understand that the US is very sneaky about their history and tries to make things sound not as bad as it really was (slavery and the genocide of natives being the biggest offenders). The anger is justified because to this day, black people and minorities cannot walk down the street without having to worry about being killed for getting a traffic ticket. They can get mortgages and loans denied as well as being discriminated with housing and job placement because their name sounds "ghetto" and "uneducated". They still get followed around in stores because of stereotypes and racism. It's very sad and frustrating.

It's sad to see people being so against others being equal. What's even more baffling is how they insist that they must not be vocal and be peaceful 24/7 even when it's being shown that changes do not occur this way in our world. The same people must have forgotten how the US was founded.


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## nami26 (Jul 9, 2016)

The issue is that Obama won't do anything about it. He barely talks about it, and when he does , he doesn't ever take much action.


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## Red Cat (Jul 9, 2016)

nami26 said:


> The issue is that Obama won't do anything about it. He barely talks about it, and when he does , he doesn't ever take much action.



What is he supposed to do about it? He has talked about police violence often. He can't directly oversee every police department in the country. We could require every police officer in the country to wear a body camera or have every death caused by police be investigated and tried as a federal crime instead of a state crime to increase the odds of a conviction, but there's no way that the do-nothing Congress would go along with either of those proposals.


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jul 9, 2016)

nami26 said:


> The issue is that Obama won't do anything about it. He barely talks about it, and when he does , he doesn't ever take much action.



What could he have done to prevent this? You're speaking generally so I'd actually like to see what you think he should be doing.


Keep in mind that ever since the Orlando shooting, there have been a *lot* of pressure on congress to push for stricter gun control - which I don't think would have helped in this situation as the shooters seemed to have been very _very_ prepared.


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## inkling (Jul 10, 2016)

wow theres a lot of racist ppl here..weird


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## c h i h a r u (Jul 10, 2016)

wow! now i know who the racists of tbt are! you know who you are...

as for alton sterling and philando castile, may they rest in power. my heart goes out to their friends and family. #blacklivesmatter


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## Soraru (Jul 11, 2016)

Regarding the "suspect" of the man in the cameo with an gun strapped to his vest. 

This is the truth about him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZM0Tv_M-Ms


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## radical6 (Jul 11, 2016)

c h i h a r u said:


> wow! now i know who the racists of tbt are! you know who you are...
> 
> as for alton sterling and philando castile, may they rest in power. my heart goes out to their friends and family. #blacklivesmatter



**** alton sterling tho he a pedophile 
yeah the cop was probs racist but i aint feeling sympathy for a pedopile who had sex with minors..


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## Red Cat (Jul 11, 2016)

kallie said:


> **** alton sterling tho he a pedophile
> yeah the cop was probs racist but i aint feeling sympathy for a pedopile who had sex with minors..



Even if he was a pedophile (I don't know if that's true or not), he didn't deserve the death penalty without a trial. His background has nothing to do with the fact that the police shot and killed him for no reason. It's just character assassination in a feeble attempt to defend the cop's actions.


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## Gregriii (Jul 11, 2016)

kallie said:


> **** alton sterling tho he a pedophile
> yeah the cop was probs racist but i aint feeling sympathy for a pedopile who had sex with minors..



well the thing is the cop didnt kill him for being a pedophile but because he was black


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## radical6 (Jul 11, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> well the thing is the cop didnt kill him for being a pedophile but because he was black



yeah i know but i dont care he died, pedophiles deserve to die one way or the other


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## Gregriii (Jul 11, 2016)

kallie said:


> yeah i know but i dont care he died, pedophiles deserve to die one way or the other



not really like only ppl that have taken away other lives deserves death IMO 

but oh well not gonna argue since it would be off-topic

I can understand your anger tho I also despite pedophiles


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## zoetrope (Jul 11, 2016)

Well, this thread sure has been enlightening...

Alton Sterling sounds like he was a horrible person.  Philando Castile sounds like he was pretty great.  Neither deserved to die.


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## Reindeer (Jul 11, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> well the thing is the cop didnt kill him for being a pedophile but because he was black


While I think the force seen in the video was excessive, saying he was shot because he was black is pure conjecture. While on the ground, Alton reached for his pocket to pull out his gun, and that's when and why he got shot.


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## c h i h a r u (Jul 11, 2016)

kallie said:


> **** alton sterling tho he a pedophile
> yeah the cop was probs racist but i aint feeling sympathy for a pedopile who had sex with minors..



 i really *hate* child molestors but,
why is that when black people are killed suddenly their "criminal history" information is pulled out? just so people can have excuses to make their murders justified? they did this to michael brown and trayvon martin also.

but suddenly terrorists like dylann roof were "lone wolves" and "quiet, respectable, good student", "no criminal history" types?


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## Red Cat (Jul 11, 2016)

kallie said:


> yeah i know but i dont care he died, pedophiles deserve to die one way or the other



First of all, I don't think someone can be given the death penalty for that crime, and second, even if it were a capital crime, he would have deserved to have a trial for it instead of a cop killing him in the street without knowing if he was really guilty or not.


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jul 11, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> First of all, I don't think someone can be given the death penalty for that crime, and second, even if it were a capital crime, he would have deserved to have a trial for it instead of a cop killing him in the street without knowing if he was really guilty or not.



You're missing the point of what she said. She doesn't care if it earns the death penalty or not, she personally believe he deserves to die.


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## radical6 (Jul 11, 2016)

c h i h a r u said:


> i really *hate* child molestors but,
> why is that when black people are killed suddenly their "criminal history" information is pulled out? just so people can have excuses to make their murders justified? they did this to michael brown and trayvon martin also.
> 
> but suddenly terrorists like dylann roof were "lone wolves" and "quiet, respectable, good student", "no criminal history" types?



i agree with you and i perosnally dont care about people who have a criminal history of like **** idunno drugs or ****. that doesnt mean they should die. im really relaxed on crime and i think just because a blsck person did drugs once doesnt mean they should get shot by cops

however my point is idc he died. i really dont. no sympathy for pedophiles and or rapists. the cop was probably racist and should get a trial however i really really dont care about the fact hes dead. they should all die one way or the other in my opinion and this was divine justice in a way. i feel bad for his family but i really could care less this dudes dead. pedophile scum deserve to die and i hace no pity for him. philandro i feel awful for, but i dont think alton sterling deserves the attention hes getting compared to philandro.

no one deserves to have their history brught up if its just for petty crimes.


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## c h i h a r u (Jul 11, 2016)

kallie said:


> i agree with you and i perosnally dont care about people who have a criminal history of like **** idunno drugs or ****. that doesnt mean they should die. im really relaxed on crime and i think just because a blsck person did drugs once doesnt mean they should get shot by cops
> 
> however my point is idc he died. i really dont. no sympathy for pedophiles and or rapists. the cop was probably racist and should get a trial however i really really dont care about the fact hes dead. they should all die one way or the other in my opinion and this was divine justice in a way. i feel bad for his family but i really could care less this dudes dead. pedophile scum deserve to die and i hace no pity for him. philandro i feel awful for, but i dont think alton sterling deserves the attention hes getting compared to philandro.
> 
> no one deserves to have their history brught up if its just for petty crimes.


thats the thing tho. the cop gets a trial (most likely he's going to get away with it and get paid leave) while alton was shot dead. i hate rapists and molestors, but i hate racism and police brutality also.


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## nami26 (Jul 11, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> well the thing is the cop didnt kill him for being a pedophile but because he was black



You don't know that


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