# Game of the Year



## Fabioisonfire (Oct 20, 2007)

Recently, I got three mega-monsters of the industry this year:

BioShock
Halo 3
Mass Effect

All for 360. Let me tell you why you need a 360 just for these 3 games. Please Google each of these games, read the reviews, and learn them. These will be three of the GOTY nominees, I guarantee it.

BioShock-
I give BioShock a straight 10. It's absolutely perfect. Now for everyone who thinks "ZOMG ITS ANOTHER SHOOTER LOL" Shut up before I kick you in the throat and tear your mom in half. BioShock is a breakthrough in the way you tell a story. The story is so beautifully tragic, you can't help but get involved in the amazing plot and forget your outside life. (Sorry, Sarah. ) The gameplay is absolutely amazing. Truly, every small skirmish with 1-2 Splicers feels like a war. The atmosphere is so creepy, you might want to play with the lights on. Great gameplay, amazing storyline and characters, great sound, great everything. When Irrational was pitching this game to publishers, one that turned them down said that it was "just another standard FPS that will sell 120,000 units." Foot, meet mouth.

Halo 3-
Halo. We all know what Halo is. But let me tell you that this is the most fully realized edition in the trilogy. It brings the good from Halo 1 and 2 and mushes them together and then adds some more. I know this is a Nintendo forum, and most of you are all like "OMG ALL HALO IS IS GUNS AND BLOOD I WANNA JUMP ON STUFF AND EAT MUSHROOMS LOL" Shut up before I kick you in the teeth, and then stab your girlfriend. Listen: You will NEVER get bored of this game. Why? Campaign- 4 levels of difficulty, and a 10 hour playthrough on Heroic. Once you're done with the campaign, you can tackle Legendary, where the AI is P.h.D smart, or you can attempt to find the hidden skulls that can modify the game when turned on. (Some fun, some hard.) Or you can go back and get all the Terminals for the Marathon Man achievement. Or you can play up to 4 player co-op in the campaign with the meta-game to see who can rack up the most points. Multiplayer- The beef of Halo. Over 11 varied and very different maps to start, literally UNLIMITED gametypes, LOTS of balanced weaponry, customize your character for online (Male, female, Spartan, Elite, armor permutations). And let's face it. Halo's multiplayer is some of the most solid FPS multiplayer out there. Let's just say after a year you're bored with Halo 3's multiplayer. Why not head into the Forge, where you can modify any of the maps to your choosing? (Place weapons, spawn points, scenery, anything!) You can even fight others in the Forge, making it God Vs. God. AND.... If you're bored of all that, head into the Theater, where you can play, pause, rewind, fast forward, free-look, take screenshots, of ANY campaign mission, Forge session, or multiplayer match you've ever played. Long story short: Halo = lots of value. Plus, it's the end to a trilogy, why not send it off with a GOTY?

Mass Effect-
Mass Effect is truly a triumph and will go down in gaming history. It revolutionizes the genre, and changes the way a story could be told. For those of you who don't know what Mass Effect is, shut up before I punch you in the back of the head and kill your friends and family. But it's like KOTOR on 1,000,000 steroids. The customization options are wonderful, and the conversations flow much better than in Jade Empire or KOTOR. Every decision you make has a ripple in the entire galaxy. You can roam around the galaxy as you please, or follow the plot. Both are fun to do. HUNDREDS of quests, and HUNDREDS of hours of playing time you can crank out of this one.

BioShock- 10
Halo 3- 9.8
Mass Effect- 9.8

Now for the competitors that you guys believe will get GOTY-

MPC- 8 at best. Feels like ground beef. It's good ground beef, but not the steak I was hoping for. NP is the most biased piece of #$*& for giving it a 10. 

Mario Galaxy- Not sure yet, haven't played, but it does look good. It might be the 4th nominee.

Um... anything else? Bring it on.


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## Bulerias (Oct 20, 2007)

Here are, in my opinion, the real GoTY nominees.

Bioshock
Super Mario Galaxy
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn

Nobody's going to agree with me on the last one, but to hell with that.  BioShock is self-explanatory, I think you said it better than I could... it's not even close to a generic FPS.  The story reminds me of... 1984, sort of.  The dystopian universe is really unique...

Super Mario Galaxy might just be the funnest game ever.  EVERYONE who has played it is billing it the Game of the Year.  Everyone who's played it had a smile on their face, a huge stupid grin stretched to their ears while playing it...

Fire Emblem is my favorite game series, PERIOD, and I think Radiant Dawn is going to be the best of them all.


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 20, 2007)

I forgot about FE. Yeah, I guess. I'll have to wait and see.


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## Bulerias (Oct 20, 2007)

Fabio said:
			
		

> I forgot about FE. Yeah, I guess. I'll have to wait and see.


 But, remember last year, how Okami reaped in most of the GoTY awards?  This year it's gonna be a game nobody's expecting, and that's Mario Galaxy... the customary choice would, indeed, be Halo 3 or something, but I honestly think Mario Galaxy has a sure-fire chance.

The two main contenders in the media will, indeed, be Bioshock and Mario Galaxy.  Halo 3 will be brushed off as an improvement to the prequel by most outlets... and Fire Emblem will be forgotten, as usual...


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 20, 2007)

Too bad 1% of this forum's population is intelligent enough to engage in this conversation.

Okay, so, here it is then:

-BioShock
-Mario Galaxy
-Halo 3
- ?

Halo 3 WILL be a nominee, whether it deserves GOTY or not, I can see it.


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## Bulerias (Oct 20, 2007)

Fabio said:
			
		

> Too bad 1% of this forum's population is intelligent enough to engage in this conversation.
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> Okay, so, here it is then:
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 ...Hmm... I'm thinking maybe a PS3 title... maybe not though... there really isn't anything "omg GAME OF THE YEAR" on that platform, not yet anyway... I can already see two of the GoTY nominees for 2008, though.

-Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of Patriots
-Super Smash Bros. Brawl

But whatever.  For the fourth game in 2007, I think it might be... *Zack and Wiki*.

Unorthodox choice no doubt, but really; it's one of the greatest new franchises to come out the door in years, and it revives the mostly-dead point and click adventure game genre.  Everyone is praising the hell out of the game, so I think it might stand a chance as a GoTY nominee.


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## Tyler (Oct 20, 2007)

If Brawl was coming out this year, that'd definitely a nominee. 

It's a debatable whether or not Halo 3 would beat FERD, however they are two diffrent genres so it's kinda hard to compare them...


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## Bulerias (Oct 20, 2007)

OddCrazyMe said:
			
		

> If Brawl was coming out this year, that'd definitely a nominee.
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> It's a debatable whether or not Halo 3 would beat FERD, however they are two diffrent genres so it's kinda hard to compare them...


 The thing is, though, FE:RD will instantly lose points for the following.

-No Wii motion sensitivity
-Not really improved graphics
-No online

The last two have become sort of a mantra in Wii reviews, and I'm frankly getting sick of it.  A game like Fire Emblem doesn't necessarily need online (it's freaking singleplayer game, like Bioshock, which was ALSO slightly bashed for not having multiplayer... what the hell?), and even though I absolutely love eye-candy, turn-by-turn strategy games have never really wowed anyone graphically... ever.


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## Tyler (Oct 20, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 Well for the PS3  in 2008, I think there's a chance of LittleBigPlant to be a nominee. It all depends on how much they (whatever company is making it) puts into the development and how the online service works. I really can't think of anything for the PS3 this year though...


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 20, 2007)

Yeah, if MGS isn't pushed back, it could be in there. Zack and Wiki? Never heard of it... *IGNs*


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## Bulerias (Oct 20, 2007)

OddCrazyMe said:
			
		

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 Isn't LittleBigPlanet a downloadable game?  I mean, sure, it does look nice and spiffy, but as of right now, there's really no point to it.  'Cause... even a game like Mario Galaxy has a storyline, as barebones as it is, but LittleBigPlanet as of right now totally lacks story.  It's not a necessity for a game like it, but knowing how narrow-minded the game media is nowadays, points will be knocked off for that in a heartbeat.


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 20, 2007)

Are you serious, OCM? *Slaps* GOTY for a downloadable mini-game thing? That's like giving GOTY to Wii Sports.


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## Bulerias (Oct 20, 2007)

Fabio said:
			
		

> Yeah, if MGS isn't pushed back, it could be in there. Zack and Wiki? Never heard of it... *IGNs*


 Nice way to advertise, Fabster. D:

As for Zack and Wiki, the IGN previews are absolutely GUSHING with praise.  When I first saw the game, I was like, "What the hell is this, another kiddy game for the Wii?"  But when I read about it, watched videos and stuff, etc, I realized that there's much more to it than that.

The name is absolutely stupid, sure, but the game is gonna be amazing.


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## Tyler (Oct 20, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 As far as I know it will also be downloadable, as well as retail. (I'm not 100% sure about that.) As for the element in story, I'm sure they'd announce something of it. From what we know is that you go through stages, to earn things to put in your custom levels, so somehow that could get a story incorporated with that. It all depends on what they want to do really.


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 20, 2007)

Advertising, wha...?    			 Yeah, the name gives off the vibe of a licensed game by like, Ubisoft, like Taz the Tasmanian Devil or something.


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## Bulerias (Oct 20, 2007)

Fabio said:
			
		

> Advertising, wha...?    			 Yeah, the name gives off the vibe of a licensed game by like, Ubisoft, like Taz the Tasmanian Devil or something.


The name was originally "Treasure Island Z", which was a much better name in my opinion.  And every time I want to find the Wikipedia article for Zack & Wiki it always shows the wrong page. :|

Whatever, I'm just gonna call it "Z-Dub" like most of the media is doing nowadays.    			  But yeah, you should definitely check it out.  It comes out on the 23rd, I've already pre-ordered it and paid it off in full.

Edit - But, remember games like Monkey Island?  This one is really similar.


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## Jeremy (Oct 20, 2007)

Too bad Brawl isn't coming this year... it would probably win.  Next year though... who knows, because the hype won't be as big at the end of 08.


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## Tyler (Oct 20, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 Yea, I think in Wii-In thingy they said that Capcom chose that out of like 200 names.


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## Bulerias (Oct 20, 2007)

stormcommander said:
			
		

> Too bad Brawl isn't coming this year... it would probably win. Next year though... who knows, because the hype won't be as big at the end of 08.


Though Brawl would probably win, I'm glad it's being pushed back... too many games to buy anyway. >_>;;;

Edit - Wanted to point something out.  RE4 came out in the beginning of... forgot which year, and won most of the GoTY awards anyway.  So the hype might still be there.


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## Jeremy (Oct 20, 2007)

I'm sure Halo 3 won't win.  No one's going to say it's the game of the year because it's not original (third one in old series by now).  BioShock has a good chance.


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 20, 2007)

What? No frickin' way SSB would win.


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## Bulerias (Oct 20, 2007)

stormcommander said:
			
		

> I'm sure Halo 3 won't win.  No one's going to say it's the game of the year because it's not original (third one in old series by now).  BioShock has a good chance.


 I've got the same reasoning, the campaign is basically a rehash of the older ones, and even though, yes, the multiplayer is out of this world, it doesn't guarantee the game a GoTY win.


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## Bulerias (Oct 20, 2007)

Fabio said:
			
		

> What? No frickin' way SSB would win.


 Umm... you never do know.  It would at least be a nominee, that's for sure.


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## Jeremy (Oct 20, 2007)

I like how you sound so sure Fabio even though you haven't played a single game from the year... I just said "probably", you said "no way".


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 20, 2007)

Nominee, yeah, but with this year's line-up, no way it would win. Maybe next year when all it could compete with is really like, GTA4.


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 20, 2007)

Storm, I like it how you immediately mention a Nintendo game for the GOTY winner.


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## Tyler (Oct 20, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 Well, really it all depends on what Nintendo's working on right now with the delay but I do agree it doesn't stand that much of a chance to winning.

I mean Microsoft hasn't announced much of their lineup for next year, so we could all assume they have something up their sleeves, that could in fact win GOTY.


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## SL92 (Oct 20, 2007)

Is everyone forgetting DS games? Or are they not included?

By the way, the best games are:

Bioshock
Halo 3
MPC
Phantom Hourglass

Probably, SMG. Hasn't come out yet     

Oh, and I hope nobody forgets NiGHTS: Journey into Dreams. That game will pwn the crap out of everything else.


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## Jeremy (Oct 20, 2007)

I mentioned a Wii and an XBox one.  You mentioned 3 XBox ones.  You're coming across as a hypocrite... <.<  You're always like "oooo you fanboys", and then you're practically going nuts over 360's latest shooter every visit!


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## Tyler (Oct 20, 2007)

[quote="Shadow_] Is everyone forgetting DS games? Or are they not included?

By the way, the best games are:

Bioshock
Halo 3
MPC
Phantom Hourglass

Probably, SMG. Hasn't come out yet    			 [/quote]
 I disagree with you there bud. MPC wasn't that great. Yes it was the standout title of the Prime Series, I really don't think it's GOTY material compared to Bioshock, which was also first person. In a respect it does have a slight chance, however don't count on it.


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## SL92 (Oct 20, 2007)

I wasn't saying it was better, I was just listing off what I thought were the best


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## Jeremy (Oct 20, 2007)

OddCrazyMe said:
			
		

> [quote="Shadow_] Is everyone forgetting DS games? Or are they not included?
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I disagree with you there bud. MPC wasn't that great. Yes it was the standout title of the Prime Series, I really don't think it's GOTY material compared to Bioshock, which was also first person. In a respect it does have a slight chance, however don't count on it. [/quote]
 IGN gave it a 9.5 and gave BioShock a 9.7.  I've never played MPC though.  I have played BioShock.


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 20, 2007)

I'm the hypocryte, Storm? I can't help it that 3 amazing games are on the 360, all FPS, and the 360 is the most FPS friendly system. It's all facts.


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## SL92 (Oct 20, 2007)

You're kind of one-sided, aren't you, Fabio? I think plenty of Wii games qualify.


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 20, 2007)

I never stated any Wii games had no chance.


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## Jeremy (Oct 20, 2007)

Fabio said:
			
		

> I'm the hypocryte, Storm? I can't help it that 3 amazing games are on the 360, all FPS, and the 360 is the most FPS friendly system. It's all facts.


 Uh, actually that's still opinion, not fact. 
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion

If there were actually facts like that, this thread would be pointless because we'd already know what the best game was.  By the way, please stop linking to your thread, it's irrelevant.


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 20, 2007)

Oh, sorry, is linking to threads against the rules now too?

Let's wait until we see what GOTY is. Then we'll know who was right and wrong.


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## Bulerias (Oct 20, 2007)

Well, Fabio, there's no "right or wrong" when it comes to media-chosen GoTY.  For me, the Game of the Year will be Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, and I know that only a SELECT FEW are going to be agreeing with me.  Does that change my opinion?  Not at all.


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 20, 2007)

You are exactly right, Bulerias. I'm not accusing you of being one-sided because you think a Nintendo game will win.


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## Jeremy (Oct 20, 2007)

"Win" in what?  He never said he thinks FE will be awarded game of the year by the media.


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 20, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

> Well, Fabio, there's no "right or wrong" when it comes to media-chosen GoTY.  *For me, the Game of the Year will be Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn*, and I know that only a SELECT FEW are going to be agreeing with me.  Does that change my opinion?  Not at all.


 Oh, he didn't?


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## Sporge27 (Oct 20, 2007)

I love Bioshock, though I would like to say that it isn't a reason to get a 360, it is a reason to either get a 360 or have a good PC like I have!  I think Bioshock is at least in the top 5 games of the year, more likely the top 3.

I would like to think that Orange box would get up for nomination but it is kinda 5 games in one and one already got  its awards!  Half Life 2 does rock.  Portal was awesome though a little short.  Team fortress 2 is a great multi player though fairly simplistic in design.  


Anyway Halo 3 if like the other 2 Halo's will be on the PC some time, I honestly am not in a rush.  Halo has just never really done it for me.   I don't know.

  I really can't say anything for mass effect tough.  Don't know anything about it really....


Super Mario galaxy does look great.  It could get in there.  

Metroid Prime Corruption while a great game and definitely up in the top ten, I don't think it has a shot at best.

Fire Emblem is a great game if you like strategy but it has never really been all that ground breaking lately.  Nothing really extraordinary coming from it.  An example of extraordinary would be the water effects in Bioshock, or the extremely cool portal gun of Portal allowing all sorts of impossible physics to happen.  

All in all there are many great games out just this fall really.  There was some kind of shortage of good games over well, most the year.  I say we take a character from each game and have them face off.  May be in a Super Smash style.  there could be a big Daddy, and Master Chief, and Samus, and Mario, and Gordan Freeman with a crowbar, and um someone from the new fire Emblem ... and so on....  I think Big Daddy would win.  It took some extreme genetic mutant guy to take him down in the game(your character FYI), and look at his armor!


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## Bulerias (Oct 20, 2007)

Fabio said:
			
		

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 ...I didn't.  I said _for me_, not for the media.

...Though technically I am part of the media... whatEVER. >_>


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## Bulerias (Oct 20, 2007)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

> Fire Emblem is a great game if you like strategy but it has never really been all that ground breaking lately.  Nothing really extraordinary coming from it.  An example of extraordinary would be the water effects in Bioshock, or the extremely cool portal gun of Portal allowing all sorts of impossible physics to happen.


 Nothing extraordinary?  The Fire Emblem series hosts some of the best stories in any videogames, EVER.  That alone is extraordinary, the fact that Intelligent Systems spouts out a great new story every game... with 10 installments, that's no small feat.


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## Sporge27 (Oct 20, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 Well yes but the gameplay has been the same for a rather long time.  the stories are nice but never been able to pull me into the story that much.  While a game like portal though short, has a real uniqueness to its story.  Who can't fall in love with the slightly homicidal cake loving computer?

having the best stories is really dependent on the genres you like.  I have always been a more Sci Fi guy so of course the slightly homicidal computer would catch my interest more than a band of knights and whatnot who are trying to save a kingdom in distress or whatever the kinda medieval story dictates.  

Now not to say that story isn't a consideration but it is only a part and there are a lot of games that require more work and innovation to make work right.


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## JJRamone2 (Oct 20, 2007)

WAIT. HOW THE *CEN-3.0-SORD* DID YOU GET *CEN-3.0-SORD*ING MASS-*CEN-3.0-SORD*ING-EFFECT?

Oh, also MGS4 will be the best game ever made. There is no doubt it my mind.


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## MGMT (Oct 20, 2007)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

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 Nothing is changed, but therefore nothing was messed with either. A unit will level up, gain abilities, hold items, and use weapons and equipment like a true RPG, rather than being expendable like in the Wars world. This is a great game in my perspective. I am one of those select few that agree with Bulerias. I also think that FE:RD is a title worthy of GOTY. Yes many, many, many people will disagree with me but hey, It's my opinion.


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 20, 2007)

I got it at a GameStop promotion.


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## Bulerias (Oct 20, 2007)

only_half_evil333 said:
			
		

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 You said it better than I could.     

FE's stories are... wow... SO UNBELIEVABLY ENGROSSING.  I mean, I absolutely adore the fantasy stuff like Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Prydain, all that stuff, and in Fire Emblem it just beats out all of that.  Amazing, amazing stories.  Great plot twists, always keeping me on the edge of my seat.

And the gameplay, yeah; it's not broken, don't fix it.  Each game they add a new quirk, like in RD, they've added terrain bonuses, so if you're on higher ground and an archer, your precision will be greater than, say, a lance knight on lower turf.  It's hardcore fans that can appreciate the subtleties.


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## MGMT (Oct 20, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 Thanks     

But if you think about you may not change a game for the better, take Sonic for example. Sega completely ruined the entire Sonic Franchise for years to come with Sonic adventure 2:Battle and when they gave Shadow his own game. It completely sucked in my opinion. But if you take an already good like FE and change the little things  you basically have an even better game.


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## Tyler (Oct 20, 2007)

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 Yes I do agree, however that's also can be treated the other way. Metroid went from 2D to a First Person Shooter, and that was a pretty good move by Retro there.


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## UltraByte (Oct 20, 2007)

only_half_evil333 said:
			
		

> But if you think about you may not change a game for the better, take Sonic for example. Sega completely ruined the entire Sonic Franchise for years to come with Sonic adventure 2:Battle and when they gave Shadow his own game. It completely sucked in my opinion. But if you take an already good like FE and change the little things  you basically have an even better game.


 Actually, SA2B was a GREAT game, the new characters were a bit "meh", but still a good game. SEGA REALLY screwed up when they released Sonic Heroes, then came forth Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Riders, Sonic Next-Gen (which could have been WAY better imo).


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## MGMT (Oct 20, 2007)

OddCrazyMe said:
			
		

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 The only fun I had on SA2B was playing with the chaos. I guess it does depend on the game. But to me more than half the time the originals are bet than the sequels or prequels.


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## UltraByte (Oct 20, 2007)

only_half_evil333 said:
			
		

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 Chao, you mean. <_<

Have you played the multiplayer? Much fun.


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## MGMT (Oct 20, 2007)

UltraByte said:
			
		

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Oh whoops sorry chao.. gosh I'm having a bad spelling day. <_<

Multiplayer didn't do too much for me.


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## Micah (Oct 20, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

> Here are, in my opinion, the real GoTY nominees.
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 I agree but I don't think FE has enough fan base to warrant a GotY nominee.


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## Bulerias (Oct 20, 2007)

Koehler said:
			
		

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 Exactly, which is why it won't win in most of the media's eyes.  It'll win in MY eyes, though, in my personal GoTY awards.


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 21, 2007)

Bulerias, you said BioShock reminded of the eighties...

Rapture was apparently built somewhere in the 40s-50s, and you crash land in the Pacific and find the Bathysphere somewhere in the 60s. So the atmosphere is completely that old, 50s stuff. It makes it so eerie listening to one of the Splicers sing an old song to their completely dead, cold baby.


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## Bulerias (Oct 21, 2007)

Fabio said:
			
		

> Bulerias, you said BioShock reminded of the eighties...
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 Errrr... no, I never said that.  I said it reminded me of a book called _1984_.


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## Fabioisonfire (Oct 21, 2007)

Oh, whoops, I misread. My mistake.


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## Zero_13 (Oct 21, 2007)

Halo 3 ftw.


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## AndyB (Oct 21, 2007)

One of my friends who has a 360, of which I'll hopefulky be getting one soon, has BioShock and Halo 3.
I played both, Halo more, never-the-less I highly enjoyed both.
And both greatly deserve to be up for GotY.


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## MGMT (Oct 21, 2007)

No offense, but Halo 3 doesn't stand a chance/deserve it. But do tot he entire gaming population that owns it. It will definitely get a nominee. I think Bioshock deserves it though. Bioshock is a great game overall. But I still want FE to win.


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## Sizzler_Puddle (Oct 21, 2007)

ugh. I got soooooooo bored reading the first page, I skipped to here. 


  
^_^			 

I say if there's to be a PS3 title, I'm not sure about YOU guys, but I would definitely  choose either Mercs 2, or Ratchet and Clank: ToD   :yes:


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## DSCUBER9000 (Oct 21, 2007)

Mass Effect is out already? Where have I been?


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## Sizzler_Puddle (Oct 21, 2007)

DSCUBER9000 said:
			
		

> Mass Effect is out already? Where have I been?


 Probably at the DS Union  :r


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## Furry Sparks (Oct 21, 2007)

hmm, I can't really think of any really good games that came out this year other then halo... 

Can't say anything about bioshock, I haven't played it yet.


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## MGMT (Oct 21, 2007)

ZELDAFREAK104 said:
			
		

> hmm, I can't really think of any really good games that came out this year other then halo...
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 Yea I know, I can't think of any either.


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## Micah (Oct 21, 2007)

Galaxy hands-down. It looks like perhaps the best Nintendo game ever.


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## MGMT (Oct 21, 2007)

Koehler said:
			
		

> Galaxy hands-down. It looks like perhaps the best Nintendo game ever.


 Besides Fire Emblem


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## Pichubro (Oct 21, 2007)

Halo 3, but Mass Effect may be good as KoTor.


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