# reverse oppression



## visibleghost (Feb 2, 2017)

by reverse oppression i mean things like racism against white people (reverse racism), sexism against men, heterophobia, cisphobia etc. 
i think most people have heard discussions about this before so yay i'm not going to explain more, just ask if you arent sure what i mean.

so, do you think reverse oppression is real? why/why not? and if you think it is real: how do you define racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia etc.?

i don't think that reverse oppression is real. i think that oppression is based on so much more than just one thing that happens once. often when i hear about people complaining about reverse racism it's stuff like "this person called me a cracker but if i say racial slurs i'm apparently a giant racist!" where cracker has literally no backstory and it is the only "racist" thing this white person has been a victim of, while people of color are victims of a lot more than racial slurs.
like people see things that happen to many different people but they don't see that for the not oppressed people that's literally all there is, when the people who are oppressed may have been killed, hated, discriminated, not seen as human beings etc. for hundreds of years which still impacts their daily life.

idk if this is a mess but Hhhh  Anyways . i'll add a poll so if there isnt a poll yet wait a few minutes

also important note: this isnt a politics thread tho i understand that it has a lot to do w/ politics. just pls try to not make it into a trump flamewar or something.


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## MorningStar (Feb 2, 2017)

I selected "Maybe in some cases," but to be honest, oppression isn't the word I'd use. Maybe prejudice. Maybe bias.

Here's why;

The people that lash out at the people who call "reverse oppression" are people who have without a doubt been oppressed. Women against men. People of colour against white people. The LGBT+ community against homophobics and unfortunately, now, "cis-het" people in general.

The problem here is that those people are hurt and angry and lashing out at anyone who isn't one of them, because they don't feel SAFE with a lot of people who aren't one of them. A lot of gay kids tell their friends the truth expecting to be accepted, and are shamed instead. A lot of black people call the cops because they needed help, and were punished, themselves, for random crimes.

I wouldn't call the cops oppressed by black people. I wouldn't call homophobics oppressed by gay people. The problem, however, is that now I see regular, everyday teenagers absolutely verbally SHREDDED by someone because they're a guy who happens to be happy being a guy who likes girls. Now, they're "cis-het scum." People hate ALL cops, even the good ones, because "they're racist murderers." A lot of women are full of hate and insults to men after the way society treats them, and even men who have never laid a hand on a woman in a bad way, or said a sexist remark in his life, will be scorned as a "misogynistic pig."

Certain communities have oppressed certain other communities for a LONG time, and by oppression, I don't mean snide comments and nasty words. I mean, a black girl gets killed on the streets because a guy hit on her and realized she was transgender and had "tricked him." That's oppression. Job limits and violence and harsh words. That's oppression. 

So the reverse oppression isn't actually that. It's bias against a people as a whole who has caused problems in the past. A straight white dude will still always have it better than a gay black woman, but that doesn't mean it's okay for either side to hurt the other... No matter what someone feels.


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## DarkDesertFox (Feb 2, 2017)

Reverse racism? What? People can be racist against whites. I've seen plenty of examples. One video this black girl was bullying this white kid because he chose to wear dreadlocks for fashion. Since when does fashion belong to one race?


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## Aquari (Feb 2, 2017)

if we do that then we're no better than the people that were oppressing us in the first place


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## seliph (Feb 2, 2017)

DarkDesertFox said:


> Since when does fashion belong to one race?



Well considering only black people (or part black people) are able to actually_ have_ dreadlocks...

Here's the thing about people with any other type of hair trying to "dread" their hair: they can't. Literally.
Actual dreadlocks are made with simple twisting that can only be achieved with type 4 curly hair (maybe 3C too? I can't remember) or, "black people hair" as some of you may call it. They are also easy to keep clean.

Non-black peoples' "dreadlocks" are made by either a. severely damaging your hair with backcombing, glue, teasing, etc. or b. straight up neglecting it and not washing it, which doesn't form deadlocks, but forms matting instead. These aren't dreadlocks. These are nasty ass grinch fingers on your head.

So uh yeah dreadlocks pretty much do belong to one race. ?\_(ツ)_/?

Btw I voted no. Pretty sure I've already stated why several times in other threads.


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## N a t (Feb 2, 2017)

Feminism then: "Equal Rights!!!"

Feminism now: "LET'S OPPRESS THE OPPRESSORS!!!1!!!11!:-DDDD"

I'm aware that not all feminists have become fishy she-beasts, but as a female myself, I am not even happy that I have to share the same sex with those women. I am disappointed in them. They're just another reason for females to be made fun of or treated poorly tbh. All they're doing is provoking other people, acting like idiots, and crying about it when they get put down. You're definitely not gonna get men to treat you fairly if you treat them like trash. You're just starting a war.


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## Aquari (Feb 2, 2017)

Petey Piranha said:


> Feminism then: "Equal Rights!!!"
> 
> Feminism now: "LET'S OPPRESS THE OPPRESSORS!!!1!!!11!:-DDDD"
> 
> I'm aware that not all feminists have become fishy she-beasts, but as a female myself, I am not even happy that I have to share the same sex with those women. I am disappointed in them. They're just another reason for females to be made fun of or treated poorly tbh. All they're doing is provoking other people, acting like idiots, and crying about it when they get put down. You're definitely not gonna get men to treat you fairly if you treat them like trash. You're just starting a war.



agreed, although the though of "revenge" does sound nice, there still needs to be some form of realistic and critical thinking to this


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## issitohbi (Feb 2, 2017)

I think the ideas of reverse racism + oppression are a construct of majority individuals who cannot stand that for whatever reason they aren't On Top/The Center Of Attention in any situation.

White people can't stand when someone who isn't white - someone who is "beneath them" get something better. They think all actions to raise up poc are meant to put them down. The same goes for abled vs disabled, rich vs poor, etc. And there are instances where demographically majority individuals are the minority (like in my city there were only a few white people) but then it becomes a matter of prejudice, discrimination, and often outright fear that they don't understand and want to cry "racism" about lol

Also, appropriation is participating in racism. Miss me with the idea that fashion patterns and hair styles belong to everyone. That's like saying the art of one artist belongs to everyone & I can copy it for credit. Bye.

.。.:*・?​
Definitions for anyone who wants to argue with me potentially:

*PREJUDICE:* preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience
_Example:_ "English prejudice against foreigners"

*DISCRIMINATION:* the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex
_Example:_ "Being overlooked for being disabled is a form of discrimination that can be reported to the labor board"
_Synonyms:_ Bias, prejudice, intolerance

*RACISM:* prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. It is a system. See also: systemic racism, systematic racism, institutional racism, etc.


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## hamster (Feb 2, 2017)

No.
Racism is racism. Any one can be racist, it's too bad that some still don't understand or even want to.
It's pretty trendy to hate white people at the moment, as you see lots of Twitter (or any social media) accounts talking about how we should be killed or whatever. But if someone said that about a black person, they'd get into serious trouble.


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## N a t (Feb 2, 2017)

Teabagel said:


> agreed, although the though of "revenge" does sound nice, there still needs to be some form of realistic and critical thinking to this



Revenge is always fun and feels so good. But it usually doesn't end peacefully. Not unless your enemy is dead.


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## nintendofan85 (Feb 2, 2017)

I chose "not sure" because I honestly don't know how to answer this question. Maybe it does exist, but I don't think it's as noticeable as the main kind of oppression you see (racism, homophobia, etc.).


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## moonford (Feb 2, 2017)

I think anyone can experience racism, sexism and hate for being a certain sexuality or gender.

Its hurts to see that it's still prominent today after thousands of years of progress we still can't pull through this?


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## Red Cat (Feb 2, 2017)

I understand the whole "treat others the way you want to be treated thing", but I've come to realize that racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. are not going away quietly into the night. In my opinion, the only way to stop the various -isms to marginalize, suppress, and demonize people who hold hostile views based on a person's race, gender, sexuality, religion, etc. Don't wait for them to go to hell when they die, make it hell on Earth for those people as long as they hold those views. People have the ability to change or at least control those views, so it's not like they would be absolutely oppressed for the rest of their lives. It's not too hard to understand that we're all human and that different races, genders, and sexualities are all natural. What's not natural and should not be tolerated as such is hating other people solely based on those characteristics.


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## Haskell (Feb 2, 2017)

Racism is racism.
Sexism is sexism.
Heterophobia does exists.
Homophobia does exists.

This thread is legit weird.


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## issitohbi (Feb 2, 2017)

Ekcriptia said:


> you see lots of Twitter (or any social media) accounts talking about how we should be killed or whatever



In my experience, these accounts are often run by white instigators who want to act like they're a poc/certain person that's a poc in order to have more hate directed at a group


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## LambdaDelta (Feb 2, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Heterophobia does exists.



oh no, won't someone please think of the privileged cishets?

what ever will they do about being singled out by a subgroup of a subgroup, while society otherwise caters near completely to them


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## deSPIRIA (Feb 2, 2017)

So people from BLM torturing a disabled white man because of his skin colour and calling him slurs isn't racist then


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## Mink777 (Feb 2, 2017)

If your a typical 6th grade girl, then yes, sexism can be opposite. I think that reverse racism definitely exists and is just as bad.


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## Corrie (Feb 2, 2017)

I'm sure it happens but definitely not as often as the usual people who are opressed.


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## deSPIRIA (Feb 2, 2017)

I agree that more blacks, gays and women are oppressed more than white, straight men but singling people like this out is being just as bad


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## LambdaDelta (Feb 2, 2017)

Alien51 said:


> If your a typical 6th grade girl, then yes, sexism can be opposite. I think that reverse racism definitely exists.



I mean when you're a middle schooler, kind of everyone in your age range is just a jerk any which way.

that isn't "oppression", it's just "children transitioning into early teen years being rather ****ty"


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## issitohbi (Feb 2, 2017)

Ashvenn said:


> So people from BLM torturing a disabled white man because of his skin colour and calling him slurs isn't racist then



Reports I saw said 4 suspects attack a disabled man, as in, hate crime against someone disabled. Just because they were black doesn't mean they were black lives matter supporters and even if they were BLM as a whole shouldn't be blamed for it. Which is what you're doing by saying "BLM" instead of "4 black people"


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## Red Cat (Feb 2, 2017)

issitohbi said:


> Also, appropriation is participating in racism. Miss me with the idea that fashion patterns and hair styles belong to everyone. That's like saying the art of one artist belongs to everyone & I can copy it for credit. Bye.



That's kind of a poor analogy though. The idea of a person or group of people owning something makes sense. The idea of a race or ethnicity owning something is a bit of a stretch. If someone wants to use something from another culture and actually understands the context and culture and shows an appreciation for it, then that should be celebrated. If someone uses a feature of a culture and doesn't use it in context of the culture, it looks really stupid, but it's not really racist or discriminatory because the idea of a race or ethnicity having sole ownership of something is kind of discriminatory in itself.


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## deSPIRIA (Feb 2, 2017)

issitohbi said:


> Reports I saw said 4 suspects attack a disabled man, as in, hate crime against someone disabled. Just because they were black doesn't mean they were black lives matter supporters and even if they were BLM as a whole shouldn't be blamed for it. Which is what you're doing by saying "BLM" instead of "4 black people"



Pretty sure they were from BLM, I might have been wrong on this one.


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## issitohbi (Feb 2, 2017)

Ashvenn said:


> Pretty sure they were from BLM, I might have been wrong on this one.



I might be wrong too about if they were or weren't, because all the reports I saw reported about disability only.


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## Mink777 (Feb 2, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> I mean when you're a middle schooler, kind of everyone is just a jerk any which way.
> 
> that isn't "oppression", it's just "children transitioning into early teen years being rather ****ty"



Back when I was in sixth grade, I sat between two bratty girls, they had a whiteboard that they wrote down terrible things about me and a few other classmates, and they constantly made fun of me in particular all the time. So I guess it is more of just being a jerk that being opposite sexist. I had no self-esteem back then and was a huge nerd so I guess that's why they did it.


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## deSPIRIA (Feb 2, 2017)

issitohbi said:


> I might be wrong too about if they were or weren't, because all the reports I saw reported about disability only.



I saw reports online. However I can't 100% be sure since it's online. Looking it up now I'm getting mixed articles with some saying "it was because he was disabled" or another saying "it was because he was white"
I'm also not against BLM as a whole group.


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## issitohbi (Feb 2, 2017)

Red Cat said:


> That's kind of a poor analogy though. The idea of a person or group of people owning something makes sense. The idea of a race or ethnicity owning something is a bit of a stretch. If someone wants to use something from another culture and actually understands the context and culture and shows an appreciation for it, then that should be celebrated. If someone uses a feature of a culture and doesn't use it in context of the culture, it looks really stupid, but it's not really racist or discriminatory because the idea of a race or ethnicity having sole ownership of something is kind of discriminatory in itself.



Not true. Tribal patterns, which many individuals AND large companies have appropriated under the guise of understanding and celebration, are. for. the. tribe. Our cultures are closed. Meaning, outsiders aren't welcome and when they are, it isn't a free for all. That is OUR decisions as whatever tribe. Just like it is the decision of other ethnicities and cultures.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Ashvenn said:


> I saw reports online. However I can't 100% be sure since it's online. Looking it up now I'm getting mixed articles with some saying "it was because he was disabled" or another saying "it was because he was white"
> I'm also not against BLM as a whole group.



Same here now, that's odd. Not sure which are considered reputable news sources either but yeah. & I don't think you are, but the automatic conflation of "black people" with "BLM" can be dangerous to the cause and to black people is all I'm saying.


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## tumut (Feb 2, 2017)

DarkDesertFox said:


> Reverse racism? What? People can be racist against whites. I've seen plenty of examples. One video this black girl was bullying this white kid because he chose to wear dreadlocks for fashion. Since when does fashion belong to one race?


Yes you can be racist to a white person but that doesn't make white people oppressed lol.


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## Red Cat (Feb 2, 2017)

issitohbi said:


> Not true. Tribal patterns, which many individuals AND large companies have appropriated under the guise of understanding and celebration, are. for. the. tribe. Our cultures are closed. Meaning, outsiders aren't welcome and when they are, it isn't a free for all. That is OUR decisions as whatever tribe. Just like it is the decision of other ethnicities and cultures.



If someone straight-up copies someone else's pattern, then yes that's wrong and should be illegal. If someone outside of a tribe makes their own unique pattern that looks "tribal", then I don't see what's really wrong with it. Like with any artwork, tribes can own the designs they create and anything which looks obviously ripped off of them, but they can't own entire themes and color schemes and things like that. A tribe can stop other cultures from entering their community if they want, but they can't stop people from leaving and taking the culture with them. It's a human right to spread culture around to people who are willing recipients of that culture.


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## Soda Fox (Feb 2, 2017)

issitohbi said:


> Not true. Tribal patterns, which many individuals AND large companies have appropriated under the guise of understanding and celebration, are. for. the. tribe. Our cultures are closed. Meaning, outsiders aren't welcome and when they are, it isn't a free for all. That is OUR decisions as whatever tribe. Just like it is the decision of other ethnicities and cultures..



Wow, ok. So can I tell people not to dye their hair red? As a natural red head I find it highly offensive that someone would fake such a unique thing about me and my culture.

Obviously that's a ridiculous thing to say. Same with anything else imo.


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## issitohbi (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> As a natural red head I find it highly offensive that someone would fake such a unique thing about me and my culture.



White people aren't the only people to have naturally red hair, it's a recessive trait. Try again.


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## Soda Fox (Feb 2, 2017)

issitohbi said:


> White people aren't the only people to have naturally red hair, it's a recessive trait. Try again.



When did I bring in race? I said natural red hair vs people who dye their hair. How about you try again?


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## issitohbi (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> When did I bring in race? I said natural red hair vs people who dye their hair. How about you try again?



Literally the only time people ever use that as an argument is Irish people with red hair. Since hair is something that grows all colors for all people, it doesn't matter who dyes and who doesn't. That's the most absurd thing to say.

But when a culture designs a print that has meaning to them solely, it shouldn't be up for grabs for those it wasn't designed by/for.


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## f11 (Feb 2, 2017)

I mean oppression is systematic and institutionalize so reverse oppression doesn't exist, but extreme bias' and prejudice does.


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## UglyMonsterFace (Feb 2, 2017)

No such thing as reverse oppression. There's only racism, prejudice, bigotry, etc. This can be against white people or straight people. I hate when people say you can't be racist to white people, or sexist against men. These things can affect everyone. Let's not pretend otherwise.


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## seliph (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> Wow, ok. So can I tell people not to dye their hair red? As a natural red head I find it highly offensive that someone would fake such a unique thing about me and my culture.
> 
> Obviously that's a ridiculous thing to say. Same with anything else imo.



Hair colour isn't a ****ing culture oh my god are you serious


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## Stepheroo (Feb 2, 2017)

I don't agree with the term "_reverse_ racism" because, like has been stated before, racism is racism.

And culture, like language, is something that diffuses and is NOT "closed" in my opinion. I agree with the notion that, if you take something from a culture then as long as you appreciate it, are knowledgeable about where it comes from and from what culture (not trying to pass it off as your own) then it's okay imo.

As for white people with dreadlocks, I just think it looks ughhhhhhh because I KNOW that dreadlocks in any type of hair other than the type it was meant for have gone through a lot of crappy stuff to become that way, in some cases just literally being dirty af too. But some people think otherwise. Cool. Differing opinions. Not going to attack them for that.

All in all though I'm just sick of the idea that by bringing up other groups of people and trying to make right the stuff that has happened to them, a vengeful sort of mindset has to be created and others need to be brought down. It's like our minds about respect towards people work on a seesaw (enfranchise women? disenfranchise men, etc) and we've become so absorbed in maintaining the LABELS. LABELS EVERYWHERE!!!

sorry I'm on mobile rn


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## oath2order (Feb 2, 2017)

issitohbi said:


> Reports I saw said 4 suspects attack a disabled man, as in, hate crime against someone disabled. Just because they were black doesn't mean they were black lives matter supporters and even if they were BLM as a whole shouldn't be blamed for it. Which is what you're doing by saying "BLM" instead of "4 black people"



exactly what reports did you read because everything I read lead with "4 black people". The person you're responding to is wrong, I agree with what you say about being black =/= BLM.

But you're dodging the point. They said various lines like "**** white people". They targeted him because he was white and disabled. Which is racist.


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## Soda Fox (Feb 2, 2017)

gyro said:


> Hair colour isn't a ****ing culture oh my god are you serious



Actually it is. That's why we have our own jokes, days, marches, etc.

On mobile so double quote isn't a thing but - my God you just assumed I'm Irish, which I'm not.

Way to go you two. You just proved why your whole argument is absurd.


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## seliph (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> Actually it is. That's why we have our own jokes, days, marches, etc.
> 
> On mobile so double quote isn't a thing but - my God you just assumed I'm Irish, which I'm not.
> 
> Way to go you two. You just proved why your whole argument is absurd.



Nah but you proved that you're one of those people who talk over people about _their own cultures_ so thanks for that.

Comparing cultural appropriation to dying your hair, _that_ is what's absurd.


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## oath2order (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> Actually it is. That's why we have our own jokes, days, marches, etc.
> 
> On mobile so double quote isn't a thing but - my God you just assumed I'm Irish, which I'm not.
> 
> Way to go you two. You just proved why your whole argument is absurd.









Please tell me a Red Hair Joke.

When is Blonde Day this year?

Where is the Brunette March taking place?


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## Dogemon (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> Actually it is. That's why we have our own jokes, days, marches, etc.
> 
> On mobile so double quote isn't a thing but - my God you just assumed I'm Irish, which I'm not.
> 
> Way to go you two. You just proved why your whole argument is absurd.



It's not culture. Stop making white people look rediculous. People of all colors have the ability to have all naturally occuring hair colors.


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## Soda Fox (Feb 2, 2017)

Dogemon said:


> It's not culture. Stop making white people look rediculous. People of all colors have the ability to have all naturally occuring hair colors.



Yeah, and people of all races with natural red hair can participate.

Are there not blonde or brunette days? I honestly haven't looked and honestly don't care if they have their own days. I don't see why they shouldn't. 

Want to hear a red head joke? Why do red heads never date? Because everyone would think they're sibilings!

I'm not stepping on other cultures. I just don't see a problem with people sharing them or wanting to mimic them. If people want to dye their hair red, more power to them. If they want to say it's natural when it's not, though I'll cringe, I won't tell them they can't do that.

Edit : If it makes you upset that people want to be like you, it's your problem, not the other person's.


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## Dogemon (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> Yeah, and people of all races with natural red hair can participate.
> 
> Are there not blonde or brunette days? I honestly haven't looked and honestly don't care if they have their own days. I don't see why they shouldn't.
> 
> ...



It's not culture is the issue and YOU don't have the right to tell people to share their culture if anyone if they don't want to ESPECIALLY when it is done *disrespectfully*.


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## Hash slinging slasher (Feb 2, 2017)

This topic makes me particularly salty. There is no such thing as reverse oppression because oppression is oppression no matter who is doing it. If black people oppress white people it is still oppression not reverse oppression. If white people oppress black people it is oppression. If women oppress men it is oppression not reverse oppression. If men oppress women it is still oppression.


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## seliph (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> Yeah, and people of all races with natural red hair can participate.
> 
> Are there not blonde or brunette days? I honestly haven't looked and honestly don't care if they have their own days. I don't see why they shouldn't.
> 
> ...



Hair colour has nothing to do with this and is not comparable and is not a culture. I thought you were joking but now I don't even know.

Here's the thing about the "want to be like you" nonsense: They want to _look_ like our cultures and wear them as accessories, but they don't actually want to _be_ part of it. White girls want to wear fake bindis at coachella but would never want to be Indian. White guys wanna wear sombreros and ponchos as a Halloween costume but would never actually want to be Mexican. White girls want to wear native headdresses but wouldn't ever want to be Native. These people want to wear the getup but wouldn't ever ever wish for the slurs, the legal injustices, the societal backlash, or the general racism that comes with _actually being_ part of these cultures that are being ripped off. That's why you don't pick apart cultures that you aren't a part of. You want to wear it, but you don't have to face the backlash.

Obviously this is different than say, being _invited_ to a cultural ceremony and being asked to wear traditional clothing. That is not cultural appropriation.

And once again, this is why hair colour flat out isn't comparable.


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## Soda Fox (Feb 2, 2017)

Dogemon said:


> It's not culture is the issue and YOU don't have the right to tell people to share their culture if anyone if they don't want to ESPECIALLY when it is done *disrespectfully*.



And you don't have the right to tell me that I can't practice, use, or do the things I like, regardless of where it came from.

By the way, if you're not British, you should probably get off the computer, and if you're not British or from the US, you should probably stop speaking English, too.

I'm being ridiculous because this argument is ridiculous.


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## seliph (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> By the way, if you're not British, you should probably get off the computer, and if you're not British or from the US, you should probably stop speaking English, too.
> 
> I'm being ridiculous because this argument is ridiculous.



None of these things are a part of _culture_ and that's why your arguments are so pointless oh my gooooddddd

Side note she does have the right to tell you literally all of those things


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## Dogemon (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> And you don't have the right to tell me that I can't practice, use, or do the things I like, regardless of where it came from.
> 
> By the way, if you're not British, you should probably get off the computer, and if you're not British or from the US, you should probably stop speaking English, too.
> 
> I'm being ridiculous because this argument is ridiculous.



No you are right, I can't force you to do anything. But I can call you out. I can put you on blast for not only doing things that don't belong to you and you didn't ask to do by someone of that culture, but then also shrugging off people who ask you AFTER not to. That is like saying that I can't stop you from being a jerk, doesn't mean anyone is wrong for asking you to stop lmao.


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## Soda Fox (Feb 2, 2017)

gyro said:


> None of these things are a part of _culture_ and that's why your arguments are so pointless oh my gooooddddd



Wait wait, so white is not a culture?


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## seliph (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> Wait wait, so white is not a culture?



No? Wtf?

There's German culture, Polish culture, Russian culture, Italian culture but "white" covers so many individual places you can't just lump em all into one and call it "white culture".


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## Soda Fox (Feb 2, 2017)

Dogemon said:


> No you are right, I can't force you to do anything. But I can call you out. I can put you on blast for not only doing things that don't belong to you and you didn't ask to do by someone of that culture, but then also shrugging off people who ask you AFTER not to. That is like saying that I can't stop you from being a jerk, doesn't mean anyone is wrong for asking you to stop lmao.



You can ask someone to not, but there's a limit to how much you should rag on someone. And certainly if physical violence enters the picture, the person doing the attacking is in the wrong.


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## oath2order (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> And you don't have the right to tell me that I can't practice, use, or do the things I like, regardless of where it came from.
> 
> By the way, if you're not British, you should probably get off the computer, and if you're not British or from the US, you should probably stop speaking English, too.
> 
> I'm being ridiculous because this argument is ridiculous.



No, you're being ridiculous because you have no argument.

Dogemon lives in the U.S. where he has the right to the freedom of speech. He DOES have the right to tell you that you can't practice, use, or do the things you like, regardless of where you came from.

What you seem to be somehow forgetting, which, how you're forgetting this is BEYOND me, is that you have the right to ignore what Dogemon is saying and just continue on practicing, using, or doing the things you like.

Side note, the invention of the computer is not a "part of one race's culture" like you're implying. *Christ*

SECOND side note, only extremist idiots claim that speaking another language is "appropriation" like you're trying to say.



gyro said:


> None of these things are a part of _culture_ and that's why your arguments are so pointless oh my gooooddddd
> 
> Side note she does have the right to tell you literally all of those things



Okay to be fair though, language is a major part of culture.


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## Dogemon (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> You can ask someone to not, but there's a limit to how much you should rag on someone. And certainly if physical violence enters the picture, the person doing the attacking is in the wrong.



And who sets that limit, dude? I see white girls glorifying parts of my culture on the regular and I'll stop bugging them when they stop disrespecting things that don't belong to them. You assume that most people wear pieces from cultures correctly and they DON'T.


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## seliph (Feb 2, 2017)

oath2order said:


> Okay to be fair though, language is a major part of culture.



Sure but they mentioned English which was _forced_ on most cultures and countries as it is.



Soda Fox said:


> And certainly if physical violence enters the picture, the person doing the attacking is in the wrong.



Nah then you just have _two_ butt holes


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## oath2order (Feb 2, 2017)

gyro said:


> Sure but they mentioned English which was _forced_ on most cultures and countries as it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah then you just have _two_ butt holes



Well *fine* you have a point there


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## Soda Fox (Feb 2, 2017)

Dogemon said:


> And who sets that limit, dude? I see white girls glorifying parts of my culture on the regular and I'll stop bugging them when they stop disrespecting things that don't belong to them. You assume that most people wear pieces from cultures correctly and they DON'T.



First of all I'm not a dude. Secondly there isn't a set limit.  It's up to the individuals involved in the dispute. If someone wants to send their time constantly ripping on sone one else for wearing dreads, whatever, it's up to that person. However as a third party I'll defend whoever I feel is getting overly harassed. And again, never physical violence, from either party.

I'm very much live and let live. If you don't like what someone is doing,  go ahead and tell them to stop. But that other person should have just as much right to do what they do if it isn't actually hurting anyone. If the two parties can't come to an agreement, maybe they're better off not interacting with each other.


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## Dogemon (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> First of all I'm not a dude. Secondly there isn't a set limit.  It's up to the individuals involved in the dispute. If someone wants to send their time constantly ripping on sone one else for wearing dreads, whatever, it's up to that person. However as a third party I'll defend whoever I feel is getting overly harassed. And again, never physical violence, from either party.
> 
> I'm very much live and let live. If you don't like what someone is doing,  go ahead and tell them to stop. But that other person should have just as much right to do what they do if it isn't actually hurting anyone. If the two parties can't come to an agreement, maybe they're better off not interacting with each other.



Dude =/= me calling you a male, but I sure am not calling you miss/ma'am when you still think you have a right to intervene between a dispute of culture of which you are not a part of. You want people to use your culture however *you* want? Fine. But don't try and police the feelings of others because we hold value to our roots.

Edit: wanted to also note how this whole argument was about how it does hurt people, but I guess that doesn't matter unless it is physical ?\_(ツ)_/?


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## seliph (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> But that other person should have just as much right to do what they do if it isn't actually hurting anyone.



We basically just turned this thread upside down explaining how it _is_ actively hurting people but sure Jan.

O I'm slow Doge mentioned it already lmao


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## Soda Fox (Feb 2, 2017)

Dogemon said:


> Dude =/= me calling you a male, but I sure am not calling you miss/ma'am when you still think you have a right to intervene between a dispute of culture of which you are not a part of. You want people to use your culture however *you* want? Fine. But don't try and police the feelings of others because we hold value to our roots.
> 
> Edit: wanted to also note how this whole argument was about how it does hurt people, but I guess that doesn't matter unless it is physical ?\_(ツ)_/?



You could just not use a modifier. And I don't want people to use my culture, but I understand I don't have the right to tell people what to do.

I'm not trying to police your feelings. I'm just disagreeing with you.


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## MorningStar (Feb 2, 2017)

Yeah, to reiterate what I said before, now that the thread's sort of exploded on its own.

People can commit hate crimes against white people for being white, straight people for being straight, and men for being men. But that's not oppression. It's generally the oppressed getting angry and wanted revenge in some way. It's not oppression. It's anger, it's hate, it's prejudice.

Because as many people are killed or beaten or even just taunted for their skin colour, cops won't kill a white man for being white, and bar thugs won't kill a straight man for being straight.


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## oath2order (Feb 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> You could just not use a modifier. And I don't want people to use my culture, but I understand I don't have the right to tell people what to do.
> 
> I'm not trying to police your feelings. I'm just disagreeing with you.



quick question do you think it's okay to ask black people if you can touch their hair


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## issitohbi (Feb 2, 2017)

Stepheroo said:


> And culture, like language, is something that diffuses and is NOT "closed" in my opinion. I agree with the notion that, if you take something from a culture then as long as you appreciate it, are knowledgeable about where it comes from and from what culture (not trying to pass it off as your own) then it's okay imo.



You don't get to tell people that their culture can or can't be closed. My tribe's culture is not for grabs. That is up to us. You don't get an opinion on that - whether you're a person of color or white idc, it's simply not up to you.

And don't come back on this about appreciation and sharing because if white people cared they wouldn't have burned my people's village down, forced us off our land, forced us to learn English and abandon our cultures just to turn around and claim elements of them for money and attention.



oath2order said:


> exactly what reports did you read because everything I read lead with "4 black people". The person you're responding to is wrong, I agree with what you say about being black =/= BLM.
> 
> But you're dodging the point. They said various lines like "**** white people". They targeted him because he was white and disabled. Which is racist.



I don't know what they said. I don't care. You can have a prejudiced attack against whites, but it's not a system against white people. White people aren't oppressed just because of a few acts of prejudice. 

But you want receipts on what I read/watched?
- FOX NEWS: "Four people accused of tying up and torturing a mentally disabled man and then live streaming the beating on Facebook are scheduled to appear in court on Friday." (link)
- ABC NEWS: "Four black people were charged with hate crimes Thursday in connection with a video broadcast live on Facebook that showed a mentally..." [ill man] (link) Article since removed, titled "Hate-Crime Charges Filed in Attack on Mentally Disabled Man"

There's multiple others as well.



Soda Fox said:


> On mobile so double quote isn't a thing but - my God you just assumed I'm Irish, which I'm not.



I didn't assume YOU were Irish. I meant in relevance to the fact that Irish people have red hair and people say "You're copying Irish people by wanting red hair." Don't be daft.

Gyro is right, you're talking over people about their culture using hair as a device.


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## Stepheroo (Feb 2, 2017)

issitohbi said:


> You don't get to tell people that their culture can or can't be closed. My tribe's culture is not for grabs. That is up to us. You don't get an opinion on that - whether you're a person of color or white idc, it's simply not up to you.
> 
> And don't come back on this about appreciation and sharing because if white people cared they wouldn't have burned my people's village down, forced us off our land, forced us to learn English and abandon our cultures just to turn around and claim elements of them for money and attention.



I'm not saying I have the choice to do that, I'm saying that, with a knowledge of language and how things in general work, it's basically impossible for ANYONE to call something "closed" or "open" because of the way knowledge of other cultures can expand. I never said it was "right" to take from other cultures but I feel like there is a way for culture to be appreciated in a tasteful way.

And it's unfair to say something like "if white people cared." Not every white person went out and did the things you are saying. Not every white person even agrees with what happened to your people or other oppressed peoples.

There's no need to get snippy. This is why I usually just try and stay out of Brewster's.


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## lostineverfreeforest (Feb 2, 2017)

On topic: Racism is racism no matter who's doing it. So no, 'reverse racism' is not real.

Rest of the thread:


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## issitohbi (Feb 2, 2017)

Stepheroo said:


> I'm not saying I have the choice to do that, I'm saying that, with a knowledge of language and how things in general work, it's basically impossible for ANYONE to call something "closed" or "open" because of the way knowledge of other cultures can expand. I never said it was "right" to take from other cultures but I feel like there is a way for culture to be appreciated in a tasteful way.
> 
> And it's unfair to say something like "if white people cared." Not every white person went out and did the things you are saying. Not every white person even agrees with what happened to your people or other oppressed peoples.
> 
> There's no need to get snippy. This is why I usually just try and stay out of Brewster's.



That's definitely how it came off. Whether I use the word "closed" or not, bottom line is my culture is not for outsiders. If you're not born or married in, you're out. Language can be learned, yeah, there's linguists and the fact that we appreciate continuing the language since it was bred out BUT that doesn't mean access to the culture. The culture can be observed and participated in to an extent when learning the language, but this is not what appropriators and racists are doing.

I didn't say "all" white people. But it's definitely a majority of white people continuing genocide of my people. In the past and even now. I'm glad we have white allies, but that's few and far between so it's still white people that are harming us. I'm sorry if what I say sounds "snippy" but it's the truth I deal with daily and I hate explaining over and over why things are the way they are.


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## oath2order (Feb 2, 2017)

issitohbi said:


> That's definitely how it came off. Whether I use the word "closed" or not, bottom line is my culture is not for outsiders. If you're not born or married in, you're out. Language can be learned, yeah, there's linguists and the fact that we appreciate continuing the language since it was bred out BUT that doesn't mean access to the culture. The culture can be observed and participated in to an extent when learning the language, but this is not what appropriators and racists are doing.
> 
> I didn't say "all" white people. But it's definitely a majority of white people continuing genocide of my people. In the past and even now. I'm glad we have white allies, but that's few and far between so it's still white people that are harming us. I'm sorry if what I say sounds "snippy" but it's the truth I deal with daily and I hate explaining over and over why things are the way they are.



just a question, what is your culture?


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## NicoShaytan (Feb 2, 2017)

I agree with MorningStar, but I'd like to add something of my own. A sociological truth, in fact.

Oppression is the dominant group in a society unjustly controlling and/or mistreating a subordinate group. In America, the dominant group is white, specifically white males, but anyone who is white has a privilege that people of other races and ethnicities do not. In America, subordinate groups are, to name a few, women, LGBT+, blacks, and Latinos. The easiest form of oppression to recall is black history in America and their present. Blacks are disproportionately arrested and imprisoned, forming the highest prison population in comparison with any other group. Proportionately, the percentage of black people vs white people in American prisons far outnumbers the actual population in America: 

In the 2010 census, 64% of America was white, while 13% was black. In prisons, 39% was white and 40% was black. Today, as of December 26, 2016, looking at only these statistics, things seem to be improving on that front, at least: 37.9% are black and 58.6% are white. 

But then, look at what Trump and his supporters are doing to Muslim and Sikh people, many of them Americans. Recently, airports were jammed by hundreds of people of middle eastern descent who had come to America by plane. Because customs corralled these people up and told them, "We know you spent hard earned money to come to the home of the free, where everyone can start a new life in a diverse country where they'll have rights. But you wasted that money. Now go back where you came from."

The ban on immigrants from 17 countries in the middle east is an executive order. That means Trump decided, on his own, to do this, and no one could say no. The only way anyone could stop him is by proving in federal court that this is unconstitutional. And despite evidence to the contrary, Trump and his PR group still claim that those with green cards--people who have already earned a legal right to stay in the US, and even citizens--are still allowed to travel. (They rolled it back after protests.)

The Muslim and Sikh community definitely couldn't enact an executive order against, say, Germans entering the United States. Or anything else on that magnitude. Subordinate groups don't have the power. That's why we call them subordinate.

That is why subordinate groups can't oppress dominant groups. Individuals can definitely hate their oppressors, and while that's understandable, it's bias. Prejudice. Members of the dominant group can definitely feel that prejudice, and it doesn't feel good.

But we have to remember, the dominant group is not being oppressed. The subordinate groups are the ones who need protection.


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## ZekkoXCX (Feb 2, 2017)

Maybe it exists? Maybe it doesn't? I dont know


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## seliph (Feb 2, 2017)

Taiko said:


> Yes , sadly oppression exists for *everyone* , no matter what you are



Discrimination and oppression aren't the same thing. Even if your opinion is that heterophobia or racism against white people are real, that does not make straight people or white people oppressed.


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## issitohbi (Feb 2, 2017)

oath2order said:


> just a question, what is your culture?



I'm Native American. Chahta. That was mentioned previously. What does it matter?


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## ZekkoXCX (Feb 2, 2017)

gyro said:


> Discrimination and oppression aren't the same thing. Even if your opinion is that heterophobia or racism against white people are real, that does not make straight people or white people oppressed.



Hm...That's true. Probably im confusing Discrimination with Oppression. Thank you for correcting me


And excuse my comment please


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## oath2order (Feb 2, 2017)

issitohbi said:


> I'm Native American. Chahta. That was mentioned previously. What does it matter?



you mention genocide. are you trying to say that people appropriating your culture is equivalent to genocide


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## Wish (Feb 2, 2017)

reverse racism is a bunch of idiots trying to become special snowflakes as if they don't have enough. stop trying to take everything away and make it all about you as if there isn't enough 
stop trying to silence poc speaking of their difficulties

cry all u want i dont care honestly im an asian living in the south and people think being called a cracker is going to take away their opportunity and dreams shut the **** up honestly


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## Red Cat (Feb 2, 2017)

issitohbi said:


> I'm Native American. Chahta. That was mentioned previously. What does it matter?



You might be Native American, but your culture can't be that different from us crackers if you're on this same Animal Crossing site as we are. If we're not allowed to use your culture, then why can you use our video games? (and yes, video games are a part of culture)


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## Dogemon (Feb 2, 2017)

Red Cat said:


> You might be Native American, but your culture can't be that different from us crackers if you're on this same Animal Crossing site as we are. If we're not allowed to use your culture, then why can you use our video games? (and yes, video games are a part of culture)



I don't think it has to be said, but AC was created by Japanese people. And don't use cracker both of you thx.


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## LambdaDelta (Feb 2, 2017)

oath, why are you talking in nigh unreadable text?


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## seliph (Feb 2, 2017)

Taiko said:


> Hm...That's true. Probably im confusing Discrimination with Oppression. Thank you for correcting me
> 
> 
> And excuse my comment please



No problem, people confuse the word all the time it's nbd



Red Cat said:


> You might be Native American, but your culture can't be that different from us crackers if you're on this same Animal Crossing site as we are. If we're not allowed to use your culture, then why can you use our video games? (and yes, video games are a part of culture)



*ZOO WEE MAMA*


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## oath2order (Feb 2, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> oath, why are you talking in nigh unreadable text?



It's for aesthetic purposes, really.


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## Soda Fox (Feb 2, 2017)

Dogemon said:


> I don't think it has to be said, but AC was created by Japanese people. And don't use cracker both of you thx.



To be fair Red said using the same site.  And even if the point was around the game itself, it still doesn't matter where the game came from.  We all play it.  It's something we have in common. That's the point.


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## Red Cat (Feb 2, 2017)

Dogemon said:


> I don't think it has to be said, but AC was created by Japanese people.



Yeah, but our western countries traded part of our culture ($$$) for the right to localize and distribute it. That's one of the cool things about not being a closed culture.


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## issitohbi (Feb 2, 2017)

oath2order said:


> you mention genocide. are you trying to say that people appropriating your culture is equivalent to genocide



I'm saying that appropriation is a factor of racism, and racism is what fuels the continued genocide of my people. We make about 2% of the population, and many of our women go missing and are found murdered. Hundreds. (Check out #MMIW) The fact that since 1492 we have been being murdered, the number of Natives that have been murdered, and the fact that there are many tribes that are extinct definitely classes as a genocide.

Would you like some sources other that myself?
- United to End Genocide
- History News Network
- Newsweek
- LA Times
- The Nation
- Indian Country Today
-Salon
- Duke Press
- Truth Out
- Wikipedia even
- Colonial Genocide in Indigenous North America (book) 



Red Cat said:


> You might be Native American, but your culture can't be that different from us crackers if you're on this same Animal Crossing site as we are. If we're not allowed to use your culture, then why can you use our video games? (and yes, video games are a part of culture)





gyro said:


> *ZOO WEE MAMA*



Zoo wee mama is right. Red Cat, ***** YOU.



Soda Fox said:


> To be fair Red said using the same site.  And even if the point was around the game itself, it still doesn't matter where the game came from.  We all play it.  It's something we have in common. That's the point.



Nintendo = Japanese. Red Cat actually said "If we're not allowed to use your culture, then why can you use our video games? (and yes, video games are a part of culture)" VIDEO GAMES. And if the point was the site, I came here because of ACNL, created by Japanese people, not because of the ethnicity of the site's creator.


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## LambdaDelta (Feb 2, 2017)

I mean American culture is about the blandest ****ing **** too imo so

it's like we have to open up to other cultures to get anything of actual interest


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## issitohbi (Feb 2, 2017)

Red Cat said:


> Yeah, but our western countries traded part of our culture ($$$) for the right to localize and distribute it. That's one of the cool things about not being a closed culture.



And money is part of the U.S.A as a whole. The U.S. government and things distributed by them (money) is not a culture. Remember, the money was FORCED on my people (as was English language, etc. etc.) So not only do I have the right to use it, but I am FORCED to use it.


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## oath2order (Feb 2, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> I mean American culture is about the blandest ****ing **** too imo so
> 
> it's like we have to open up to other cultures to get anything of actual interest



We're a Melting Pot[sup]TM[/sup]

- - - Post Merge - - -



issitohbi said:


> I'm saying that appropriation is a factor of racism, and racism is what fuels the continued genocide of my people. We make about 2% of the population, and many of our women go missing and are found murdered. Hundreds. (Check out #MMIW) The fact that since 1492 we have been being murdered, the number of Natives that have been murdered, and the fact that there are many tribes that are extinct definitely classes as a genocide.




So some white girl wearing your tribe's clothing is contributing to your people's genocide?


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## LambdaDelta (Feb 2, 2017)

oath2order said:


> We're a Melting Pot[sup]TM[/sup]



not in Trump's America™


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## Stepheroo (Feb 2, 2017)

lostineverfreeforest said:


> All the bleeding hearts come out of the woodworks for threads like this.



I think the only good (I guess if I can call it that) thing about these breads is that people start to show their true colors. Something you wouldn't see if  it was just a thread about "hey let's trade the perfect cherries, friend-o!!1!"

On the other hand, I swear some people join the site with little to no intention of doing anything Animal Crossing related. lmfao


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## oath2order (Feb 2, 2017)

issitohbi said:


> And money is part of the U.S.A as a whole. The U.S. government and things distributed by them (money) is not a culture. Remember, the money was FORCED on my people (as was English language, etc. etc.) So not only do I have the right to use it, but I am FORCED to use it.



He's talking about Animal Crossing, you know, back in 2001, not the distant past where the money and English language was forced on you.


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## Jake (Feb 2, 2017)

That's enough fun for one day children.


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