# Recently...



## Propaganda Man (Jan 6, 2009)

I've been told that this forum is private property and that I shouldn't complain...mods don't serve members...etc.

I've been inquired to see if these things are really true. My findings are as followed:

Now, Storm is the founder. He's numero uno. He's the root admin. You can't demod him. He owns this forum, right? 

Well, no. I mean, not exactly. You see, you scroll to the bottom of the board and you find, "Hosted for free by ZetaBoards". If he payed for it...he might have an argument. He hasn't and this isn't his software nor is it his server. Bottom line is that this is not his forum. He runs it, yes but this forum can be taken away from him at any time regardless of the reason because he has payed nothing for it. 

The domain name has nothing to do with the forum as it would be here, just as it is, without it. He owns that though. That, though, is not the forum.

Now, let's move on.

What is the purpose of the forum? Well when admins, this not being JUST about Storm, say that users have no right to complain or that they are not being served they are speaking foolhardy. 

Why is this forum here? The truth? This forum is here basically to host communication through an AC themed forum. There is no product...nothing to buy....nothing to make money off of. This forum is here to be used. Without use it is dead. Without users it is not in use. 

Admins maintain the forum. They take care of technical issues and may mod on the side. Moderators moderate the forum to make sure everyone is civil. Users, happy with how the forum is running and the lack of flames/spam are in result happy and post more. As a result of posting more the forum thrives. It is happy. It is alive! The forum is a success and the moderator's and admin's work is paid off with the simple, yet so rewarding, adoration from the loyal members.

This is forum philosophy.

We members exist outside and away from this forum. We don't need this forum...yet we chose it...no....we prefer it..... Some even love it... There are very few things more rewarding than people loving what you put your time and energy into. Ask any chef.  

Now, about this thread....please don't move/delete/or lock this. It is not a bad thread. I'm not looking to cause drama...and I'm open for a polite and relative discussion about what I said....in fact, the purpose of this thread is for discussion and a chance for me to voice my opinion about how the forums work.

My question, if I need one, is what do you think about what I said?

Thank you for reading, this was not made to cause drama...do not think of it in such a dim way.


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## RiiRii (Jan 6, 2009)

Thats INTENCE! never thought of it that way....


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## stand (Jan 6, 2009)

i say it is here for networking



the forum :0 = it


and are you sure youre not trying to cause drama -_-


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## Ryudo Dragoon (Jan 6, 2009)

You are very right, I like the way you think. 
Yeah, ZB is a great host but just like how American's don't "own" their houses, this forum is not owned by anyone other than ZB. c=

If this gets locked, etc, tell me, so I'll know to be mad. c:


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 6, 2009)

RiiRii said:
			
		

> Thats INTENCE! never thought of it that way....


That's a reason for me posting this.


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## Jeremy (Jan 6, 2009)

The forums are owned by Zathyus Networks, which grants administration powers to me / The Bell Tree.  It is still private property.  The point is that if you don't like a forum, you can leave it.  But all forums are private property, not some sort of government system where you have rights.  There is not such thing as free speech when it is owned property.  This is why a forum can make and enforce rules.  With a business you either use their product or you do not.  With a government you have rights, and should secede if they are being infringed.


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 6, 2009)

stormcommander said:
			
		

> The forums are owned by Zathyus Networks, which grants administration powers to me / The Bell Tree.  It is still private property.  The point is that if you don't like a forum, you can leave it.  But all forums are private property, not some sort of government system where you have rights.  There is not such thing as free speech when it is owned property.  This is why a forum can make and enforce rules.  With a business you either use their product or you do not.  With a government you have rights, and should secede if they are being infringed.


It's private property....but not owned by you.

i.e. Make a board about porn with pictures of porn at it gets deleted.

And I didn't say government


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## Jeremy (Jan 6, 2009)

Propaganda Man said:
			
		

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That doesn't change anything...


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 6, 2009)

stormcommander said:
			
		

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Yes it does. It means you don't own this forum. You have authorities over it.


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## reedstr16 (Jan 6, 2009)

i dont think i would argue with the main guy on this forum even if he doesnt own it he can probably delete your stuff or something like that


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## Jeremy (Jan 6, 2009)

Propaganda Man said:
			
		

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Then try to complain to Zathyus Networks if you are banned for example.  ZN has granted me authority over a part of their software and server space as long as I keep my end of the deal.  And The Bell Tree will continue to make them advertisement revenue as long as they keep their end of the deal.  The point you were trying to make earlier was that TBT is not private property, but I guess you changed your mind now.


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 6, 2009)

reedstr16 said:
			
		

> i dont think i would argue with the main guy on this forum even if he doesnt own it he can probably delete your stuff or something like that


The reason for not doing that is that other users get angry with one of theirs being silenced for arguing civilly. What would then happen to them? The chance of them leaving would be much higher. With that, the forum might die. No good admin would have that.


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## reedstr16 (Jan 6, 2009)

Propaganda Man said:
			
		

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good point lol


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 6, 2009)

stormcommander said:
			
		

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Authority (Partial at that) doesn't mean ownership. I've said you have authorities. These authorities can be taken away at any time regardless of what you do. What you do, though, can cause reason and quickness behind their action.

And I'm talking about relevant things with this thread.


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## Ryudo Dragoon (Jan 6, 2009)

reedstr16 said:
			
		

> i dont think i would argue with the main guy on this forum even if he doesnt own it he can probably delete your stuff or something like that


I'd lol if any owner of a forum ever banned someone cause of a discussion/minor arguement.


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## Jeremy (Jan 6, 2009)

Propaganda Man said:
			
		

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It's called capitalism. Except that we don't get paid so it means even less.  Part of what keeps us from banning whoever we want is simply... the desire to be nice people.


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 6, 2009)

stormcommander said:
			
		

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Storm, if you desired to be nice you would behave much differently and would show respect instead of telling people to leave if they don't like it (History shows these people are not the ones you want around). You are here to sell a community. What is the currency? Pleasure.

And the tone is not insulting in this post.


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## Jake123 (Jan 6, 2009)

umm ya reedstr is right dude u shouldnt argue with the main man, the big boss, the camma :veryhappy:  :no: nder etc.


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## Leagolas1 (Jan 6, 2009)

reedstr16 said:
			
		

> i dont think i would argue with the main guy on this forum even if he doesnt own it he can probably delete your stuff or something like that


lol i agree i wouldn't argue too much


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 6, 2009)

AC is cool said:
			
		

> umm ya reedstr is right dude u shouldnt argue with the main man, the big boss, the camma :veryhappy:  :no: nder etc.


Read my main post and my response to his.


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 6, 2009)

Leagolas1 said:
			
		

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Storm is not something to be feared. He isn't a brute and he needs us for this forum's survival. :/


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## stand (Jan 6, 2009)

ryudo_dragoon said:
			
		

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but you never know the whole truth, now do you?


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## Jeremy (Jan 6, 2009)

Propaganda Man said:
			
		

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You were bothering me in the IRC Propaganda Man.  I can't help it that you wanted a certain answer that I did not give you.  With thousands of members, I can't spend 2 hours in a repetitive conversation with you that goes no where.  Meanwhile, in PMs, I had to talk to other members.  There are only a certain amount of things I can do at once and you were acting extremely rude and impatient.  On top of that I have a real life outside of this forum.


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## Ryudo Dragoon (Jan 6, 2009)

Leagolas1 said:
			
		

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There's a difference between a chat on how things work and opinions on such things and a full on war of words.

So far it's the first thing mentioned and I kinda wanna know myself.

TeH Jerreh has a real life? o=
Whatcha know. c=
I think I had one... then school and this forum came.


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## Jake123 (Jan 6, 2009)

Propaganda Man said:
			
		

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and bro u really gotta hold off on the awkward insults Storm has put time and money into TBT  and has done all he could lol He even made a youtube acount for it!!


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## Jake123 (Jan 6, 2009)

......


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 6, 2009)

stormcommander said:
			
		

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I didn't want a certain answer, Storm. I wanted a relevant and helpful one. If I wanted a certain answer I wouldn't have bothered asking a question. I've already said this so stop repeating that point when I've corrected it already.

Now, I've read this many times from you and Odd. You say this but the truth is not what you say. 1,000 members aren't active, Storm. And if they are you aren't responding to them or taking care of them at that time. If you are, higher more staff. Talking to one member, one who has been around since the beginning and has known you for years no less, is not a punishment as you make it out to be. 

All I asked is that you at least tell me you are busy when you are instead of just leaving me out there. If it's urgent, I'll bother you. If it's not and I don't know if you are busy or not, I'll still bother you. Tell me that you're busy.

You may think me as rude but I think the same as you. I believe respect goes two ways. Sorry.

And I don't? Of course you do...everyone does.


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## Jake123 (Jan 6, 2009)

fftopic:  fftopic:  fftopic:  :no:  sry but this is completely beside the point and u guys r makingg the point to argue and insult ppl in an impolite manner lol


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 6, 2009)

AC is cool said:
			
		

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He has not put money into TBT. He has put money for TBT but not into. That is key.

A youtube account is part of advertising. Read my main post to understand why that's important. I didn't say it exactly but I'm sure you can connect the dots.


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 6, 2009)

AC is cool said:
			
		

> fftopic:  fftopic:  fftopic:  :no:  sry but this is completely beside the point and u guys r makingg the point to argue and insult ppl in an impolite manner lol


No one is being impolite...


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## Jake123 (Jan 6, 2009)

but probaganda ia right, not to go against u storm but you shouldnt just leave him hanging u should at least hve ssome exuse or atleast a last argument


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## Jake123 (Jan 6, 2009)

storm??


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## stand (Jan 6, 2009)

AC is cool said:
			
		

> but probaganda ia right, not to go against u storm but you shouldnt just leave him hanging u should at least hve ssome exuse or atleast a last argument


you only have oneside.

dont take any. (not sayin you are taking any supposed sides :0 but.......)


for we/you dont know the full story :/


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## Leagolas1 (Jan 6, 2009)

Propaganda Man said:
			
		

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cept you *sniffs* whats that? Do i smell a burn!! lol i'm such a noob


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 6, 2009)

stand said:
			
		

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The point is....talk about what is in the topic as that's what I want to be relevant tot he conversation. Storm can talk about chat if he wants but my main point will always be what was in my main post.


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## stand (Jan 6, 2009)

you just cant accept what he said =/

because you think youre (and might be) right.

but what?


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 6, 2009)

stand said:
			
		

> you just cant accept what he said =/
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You said you don't know the full story. I suggest you don't comment on it.


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## -C*- (Jan 6, 2009)

Propaganda Man said:
			
		

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Ahahah.

Don't bother arguing with stupid people.


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## stand (Jan 6, 2009)

^^
 oh well.

{



i know enough to say that everytime he said what he had to say
you disagree

storm does lots of things

he cant always be there to 'serve you'

the hell
}

eh ohwell again  back to your first post. .'thats an interestin thought...'




VVV Kissaiaaang assaa? amaayabe thaats haow you ado ita anoaw iasa it? thats a load of bullcrap, moads daont neead ato serave iaf daonat haave atoao,aapplay iat tao areaal liafea. athe ariagahta atoa areafuasse ssersvicbe


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## Dragorium15 (Jan 6, 2009)

This entire thread is Propaganda Man making good points, Storm making bad ones and everyone else kissing Storm's ass.

I personally agree with Propaganda. Having a forum that is hosted for free by another company does not give you the full rights of the forum. Those are reserved for the parent host: in this case Zetaboards. Now, if Storm used vB, this would be an entirely different issue because he would be paying for his website. The "mods don't serve members" is entirely false as well. Moderators are there to help people new to the forum and to prevent people from breaking the rules.

I don't have much else to say, Propaganda summed it all up nicely in all of his posts.


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 6, 2009)

Thank you


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## Dragorium15 (Jan 6, 2009)

Propaganda Man said:
			
		

> Thank you


You are very welcome.


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## JJH (Jan 6, 2009)

Dragorium15 said:
			
		

> This entire thread is Propaganda Man making good points, Storm making bad ones and everyone else kissing Storm's ass.


D:

You stole my insult.

[10:41:43 PM] John says: That thread is full of Prop Man making good arguments, Storm making bad ones, and a bunch of annoying people kissing Storm's ass.


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## Dragorium15 (Jan 6, 2009)

JJH said:
			
		

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I know. <3

It was too good not to use.


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## JJH (Jan 6, 2009)

Dragorium15 said:
			
		

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True, and if you wouldn't have posted it first, I probably wouldn't have said anything.


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## Dragorium15 (Jan 6, 2009)

JJH said:
			
		

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Exactly.

So at least it was brought to the attention of the idiots.


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## Ryudo Dragoon (Jan 6, 2009)

Dragorium15 said:
			
		

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lol at this, I got a 10% warning for calling a person an idiot for spamming many threads with the same post and to sthu.

I fully agree with you guys on the subject, but I have nothing against teh jerreh.


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## JJH (Jan 6, 2009)

ryudo_dragoon said:
			
		

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I never said I had anything against Storm, I just think Prop Man was making a better argument.


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## Ichi (Jan 6, 2009)

Propaganda Man, you are a moron.

Unless you pay the bills, you don't have a say.

It's private property.


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## Dragorium15 (Jan 6, 2009)

Ichi said:
			
		

> Propaganda Man, you are a moron.
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And this is exactly why your post fails.

The entire point is, STORM DOESN'T PAY FOR THIS SITE. You people can't seem to get this through those thick skulls of yours. It's Zetaboards private property, but it is not Storms. He can set his own rules in place, but they can not go against those of ZB or this site would be shut down.


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## Gabby (Jan 6, 2009)

That ain't cool.

I was quoting the guy who called prop man a idiot.. but it didn't turn out right


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## Princess (Jan 6, 2009)

strikingmatches  is confused
strikingmatches  doesn't know what to believe


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## Ichi (Jan 7, 2009)

Dragorium15 said:
			
		

> And this is exactly why your post fails.
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> The entire point is, STORM DOESN'T PAY FOR THIS SITE. You people can't seem to get this through those thick skulls of yours. It's Zetaboards private property, but it is not Storms. He can set his own rules in place, but they can not go against those of ZB or this site would be shut down.


You guys are completely out of your mind.

ZetaBoards TOS clearly states:


*14 Board Ownership:*
The user that registers a board is considered the owner of the board.


If storm is the person who created the board, then it is *HIS BOARD*, not ZetaBoards. You guys have to realize that if something illegal happens on this board then it is on his shoulders and not ZetaBoards. Authorities are not going to come to ZetaBoards for prosecution, they will come directly to the creator/owner of the board who is allowing the action to happen.

Give him a goddamn break.

Too many kids use this site and its his job as an Admin to keep it safe and clean.

Moderating threads and users is the Administrators job and is totally up to their own discretion.


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## stand (Jan 7, 2009)

Ichi said:
			
		

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YESSSSSS. 
totally agreed 
^_^


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## Jas0n (Jan 7, 2009)

Ichi said:
			
		

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Well, all you idiots just got owned. How does it feel?


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## Jeremy (Jan 7, 2009)

Dragorium15 said:
			
		

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Bulerias and I have put a great deal of money into it considering how broke we've been over the years.  So your statement is pretty offensive.  Not only that but I and the rest of the staff have worked very hard and you are extremely unappreciative.  At most forums, you'd be banned for speaking like this.  Why do I even tolerate your trolling?  We try to be completely accepting of these kinds of posts, yet it only encourages you.

You also simply don't understand the concept of ownership.  While Zathyus Networks owns the forum software, server space, and has granted the administration powers, The Bell Tree is still owned by _The Bell Tree_.  If we wanted to, we could convert everything to a different forum software payed directly by us for example.  The Bell Tree owns the rights here.  We have the duty to uphold our end of the deal with Zathyus, and so do they in a capitalistic sense.  This is how business works.  When you post a video on YouTube, who created the video:  you or Google?  Who owns the rights to the video?  You or Google?


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## Jake123 (Jan 7, 2009)

thats fricking cool jason u owned there asses!!


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## Jake123 (Jan 7, 2009)

and jeremy


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## Jeremy (Jan 7, 2009)

Anyway, I'm afraid I have to close this due to flaming.  If you want to talk about legal issues, I will be happy to in a PM.  However, I can tell that the people here are simply trying to look "right" or "worthy" to make some sort of strange point..  If you think TBT doesn't have authority over the forum, please have Zathyus Networks unlock this thread.  I'll be waiting.


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