# Are video games art?



## NikoKing (Jul 1, 2013)

I've recently read a couple of debates over the idea of video games as a form of art. There is a lot of partisanship when it comes to the sides of the argument (either you strongly agree or disagree). Some would argue that games have forms of musical and visual communication like paintings, movies, or music contain and people consider those forms of art. Some argue that video games can't be viewed on the deep level that a piece of art has. Of course, on a video game forum most people will be on the side that it is art but I'm still curious on what the general opinion is.

Also sorry if this is a duplicate thread from before. I haven't been on the site in ages haha.


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## MotownMurder (Jul 1, 2013)

The fourth definition of art on Merriam-Webster is "the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects"

Yep, that's video games. Some are less deep and meaningful than others, but art they are. Though this is obviously a very biased place to be asking such a question .-.


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## oath2order (Jul 1, 2013)

Without a doubt, video games are art. I cannot understand how people say that music, paintings, and movies are all art, yet video games are not. Look at games such as Mirror's Edge, Skyrim, Bioshock, The Last of Us, Alice Returns, and Fallout 3, to name a few. I do not understand how people cannot look at those and call them art.

Literature is also considered an art. Great immersive worlds all in the pages of a book that drag you in and make you want to learn about the world you're reading about. People say that about books, yet claim video games aren't art. As if. Look at Skyrim. There are books about the economy of the game world. There are books about the history of the game world and a bunch more most players don't even read. I don't see how they can claim that the immersion found from reading a novel and the immersion from a video game is different.


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## chillv (Jul 1, 2013)

Well anything that requires creativity is a form of art. That's why cooking is art, because even though you have to follow a recipe, the overall aesthetics of the food is up to you. Most people barely eat food that is not pleasing to their eye.

Same goes for video games, you need to have some kind of creativity to make the gameplay and everything fun.

In fact, video games have graphics and music which are forms of art also. That means that video games are a form of art that has other forms of art within.


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## Isabella (Jul 1, 2013)

Of course they are. It would be silly to say they aren't! Video game creators spend so much time on the graphics, art work, music and story line/dialogue. The entire team works together to create something that is (usually) an amazing game.

When I think of art and video games, I immediately think of the Mother series. Play it, you won't regret it. Especially the 3rd, you will look past the fact that the game is only Gameboy Advanced quality. In my opinion, it had the most beautiful story you could ever have in a game. The gameplay was great, the music, and the plot were all so unbelievably perfect. I'd call that art.


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## Caius (Jul 1, 2013)

I don't know why anyone would say no.

Especially considering you need an art degree to make a game


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## Kaiaa (Jul 1, 2013)

Absolutely =/


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## darkzero (Jul 1, 2013)

Art is subjective and therefore it's only really art if you feel like it is, and that's why people have an issue with Video Games being considered "art." They just don't consider it to be Art, and a lot of it has to do with that fact that Video Games started off more like "Toys," something you played with as a form of stress-relief or entertainment when there was nothing to really do.

I don't necessarily consider Video Games to be art. There's a lot of work that must be done in order for games to get over the hurdle they've been in for a while in that regard. At the moment the industry is filled with games trying to be Cinematic or Artsy and there's not enough Games that are trying to be Games. I feel like in order for a Game to truly be "Art," there has to be a good mix of Presentation, Gameplay, and all of that other junk. The thing is a lot of the really big Games right now don't push any boundaries. The Last of Us has a lot of "amazing" cinematics and people claim it's the "Citizen Kane of Video Games" but the gameplay is the same boring gameplay you had to sit through with Uncharted, so did people just watch the game as a movie rather than play the game as a game? Because the boring Gameplay in Uncharted was a common complaint when those games came out, and The Last of Us was just more of the same in that regard. Then there's games that try to force you to care about characters when the characters aren't really all that appealing or interesting to begin with. It gets worse as these games tend to pull twists like killing off said characters you're supposed to care about in an attempt to invoke an emotional reaction, and this is where a lot games fail at being art. You can't just pull something like that and I'm not sure why people praise these games for it. It's not deep or anything of the sort and you may as well just admit that your game wasn't very good at being a game if this is the kind of thing you have to pull just to get people to praise your game, and this is why I don't consider *most* games to be art. 

Like I said earlier, the foundation of a game should rest on 3 things. The Presentation (Story, Cinematics, Art Style, etc.) The Gameplay (This should be the most important part) and The Music (Although this can sort of be mixed in with Presentation) Now consider these things as pillars or the structures holding a building up. The "building" in this case being a Video Game. If one pillar is stronger than the others, or if the pillars just didn't get any quality assurance to check if the pillars were stable, the foundation of the building crumbles and the building falls, but here's the next issue we've had with this kind of thing.

Video Games Journalists ruin it. There's a lot of rumors and accusations that Publishers pay off Video Games Journalists to give their Video Games fantastic reviews, even if the games aren't very good at all, in order to elevate sales numbers. So if this kind of thing is actually going on, then this only further hurts the idea that Video Games can be Art, because these people aren't being paid to give these games any actual critique. They're being paid to sugarcoat the issues with these games in order to get special privileges. Some of the highest rated games did not deserve their position or the praise they got because a lot of the time, people were knowingly sold very bad products, and this is the most important part of the issue

People who buy these games and also praise them without putting any thought into their purchases. This is bad because with your sale, you tell these companies and developers that you're okay with being screwed over with a bad quality product. Sure, it's your money, but as time passes and you start to realize that the game you used to love wasn't really as good as you thought it was and you probably wouldn't have bought it had you known the game wouldn't be so good, then it's nobody's fault but yours at that point. And since these Games tend to sell the most, then other companies will start trying to replicate that success and then there's just bad quality games everywhere.


If you want Games that are truly art, then you play something like Spec Ops: The Line, Super Mario Galaxy, ICO. These are the kinds of games we should be praising and playing and talking about. They aren't just Games. They're Games with some kind of message. A message that you have to actually put a lot of thought into. Games that do different things with all 3 pillars that Video Games should be designed around. Heck, Even Animal Crossing can be considered Art. The game gives you the option to run around all willy nilly throughout your town, but it has ways of punishing that kind of behavior. Bugs and Fish will run away, or in some cases, attack you. You will trample your flowers or make the grass deteriorate. If you try to time travel in an attempt to exploit some kind of mechanic, the game will further punish you by putting weeds all over your town, making it ugly. Your house will be covered in insects and you have to take the time to crush each and every one, and if you're involved in the "Stalk Market" your turnips go bad and your investment is wasted. If you try to reset the game to avoid some kind of mistake you may have made, you have to sit through a lecture from Resetti. All of these things lead to one central point.

"You can't cheat life, so slow down a little and try not to be so anxious or impatient and learn to enjoy the finer things in life."

Can Games be Art? Yes. They very well can. But the thing that ruins it all is one thing: People's perception of these Games.

When all you see in mainstream headlines about Video Games are some of the more "mindless fun" types of games, then it only muddles the vision that Video Games are Art. And even among Video Games Journalists, these games are also in the headlines very often, because these are the games the average consumer or gamer are more likely to be interested in. Games you don't have to put a lot of thought into. So a developer's focus shouldn't just be on trying to make a Game "art." It should be on proving that it's art through subtlety, while also providing fun and enticing gameplay. A Game that is "art" should be an experience, but also should be non-intrusive in the way it presents itself.


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## Meltd0wn (Jul 1, 2013)

I love watching people argue and debate points over something that has a definitive definition. (I also enjoy the whole "is rap music" argument as well (and yes by definition it is).  I just find it funny when something meets a specified definition, but there is always a few who will decide they don't agree.  especially something as vague as "art" lol 

oh by the way I voted Yes obviously, I do have a dictionary. heh heh


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## Jarrad (Jul 1, 2013)

Definitely not! Art is more of an explosion! A beautiful masterpiece that can only be viewed for a second or two. True art lives on in our memory! Khaa!


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## oath2order (Jul 1, 2013)

Jarrad said:


> Definitely not! Art is more of an explosion! A beautiful masterpiece that can only be viewed for a second or two. True art lives on in our memory! Khaa!



But video games live on in our memory. By your logic here, video games ARE art.


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## Jarrad (Jul 1, 2013)

oath2order said:


> But video games live on in our memory. By your logic here, video games ARE art.



It was a reference to a Naruto character, of course I think games are art!


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## BellGreen (Jul 4, 2013)

Take it as "irreplaceable, incredible" works of art XD


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## Bacon Boy (Jul 5, 2013)

Yes.


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## DiscordDave (Jul 5, 2013)

Easy answer:  There is a traveling museum exhibit, "The Art of Video Games."  Currently in Phoenix, AZ.  http://www.phxart.org/exhibitions/videogames

I don't quite know if I would call the games themselves art, but they are most assuredly an artistic medium, just as paper, canvas, metal and clay are.


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## Chris (Jul 5, 2013)

I'm going to keep my opinion brief, because I know I've an unpopular opinion. 

Based on the phrasing of the question, I'm voting no. I don't believe that, as a whole, that video games are an art. That question is too vague and in it's phrasing implies the generalisation that all games are art. Had the question been more specific, I would have said that, yes, some games _can_ be considered art - e.g. _Final Fantasy_, _Okami_, _The Last of Us_, _Ico_, etc. But video games as a whole or simply just the concept of them? No.


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## Marcus (Jul 5, 2013)

No. Games themselves are not pieces of art. Nor are films in my opinion. Sure, there may be some pieces of art in them, such as scenery, music etc, but the end product game is not art. You simply can't compare Skyrim, or Startrek with Van Gogh's Starry Night or Hamlet. It's unreasonable.

That doesn't mean to say a game (or film for that matter), or the effort put into it, is of any less value. It's just that they are not works of art.


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## Garrett x50 cal (Jul 5, 2013)

Of course! Anyone who says otherwise are those super pretentious fools who say only real art is staring at an oil painting for 4 hours.


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## Darkprincess320 (Jul 5, 2013)

Definately! When I play a video game, I also try to take the time to admire the surroundings, such as all the little details that make up the scenery. I feel like the art designers (or whatever their technical name is) don't have enough credit for the amount of effort they put in. Without them, the game would be crap, basically. So yes, video games are most definately art to me!


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## Marcus (Jul 5, 2013)

Garrett x50 cal said:


> Anyone who says otherwise are those super pretentious fools who say only real art is staring at an oil painting for 4 hours.



I can't tell if this is an erroneous stereotype or just a poor attempt at a joke.

~
Ultimately, as someone sensible posted earlier, art is a subjective topic and has always, and will continue to stir up debate, discussion and disagreement. Take Hirst's 'Cow in a Pickle'. Many still argue that a dead cow stuck in a container and fixed in position with formaldehyde is clearly not art. Many do. Neither side is necessarily right or wrong; each person may believe they are, but it's not definitive. Nobody knows where the line should be drawn on the topic of art, and nobody should think they do.

What does get irritating is when someone states their opinion as fact without any explanation/reasoning behind it.


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## MadCake (Jul 9, 2013)

oath2order said:


> Without a doubt, video games are art. I cannot understand how people say that music, paintings, and movies are all art, yet video games are not. Look at games such as Mirror's Edge, Skyrim, Bioshock, The Last of Us, Alice Returns, and Fallout 3, to name a few. I do not understand how people cannot look at those and call them art.
> 
> Literature is also considered an art. Great immersive worlds all in the pages of a book that drag you in and make you want to learn about the world you're reading about. People say that about books, yet claim video games aren't art. As if. Look at Skyrim. There are books about the economy of the game world. There are books about the history of the game world and a bunch more most players don't even read. I don't see how they can claim that the immersion found from reading a novel and the immersion from a video game is different.


Also, Limbo, Binding of Isaac, The Path, and Slender.
You might not have heard of the Path or Binding of Isaac.. But I agree.
Video games are art.


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## MojoRisin (Jul 18, 2013)

"Noun

The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture,...: "the art of the Renaissance"
Works produced by such skill and imagination."

To me, art is more about emotions. If it made you feel something, then it's art.

I guess I'll go for both answers, yes and no. Mostly yes. I guess the 'no' goes for certain gaming companies. It makes me feel very sad and disappointed to see such shallowness and greed in certain companies, all they want is having games that look as realistic as can be and sell them. I'm mostly referring to first person shooters here. I've played them myself, and they're quite entertaining to play with friends. But you can quickly see how there is no meaning in the game, no lessons to learn (at least in most of them). I can't stand seeing something that is, in my opinion, so shallow.

And then there's games like Majora's Mask. You learn so much from them, it has a very rich and substantial story, there is meaning in EVERYTHING (I'm a sucker for things that are so open to analysis), it's a very touching (and creepy) game.

So I guess it depends on which game, but that's just my opinion.


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## Tao (Jan 1, 2015)

If trash like '50 shades of grey', Justin Beiber's music, latest Michael Bay borefest or a painting of soup cans are considered 'art', then video games in general far surpass that.


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## Astro Cake (Jan 1, 2015)

Video games are art, it's just that not all art is good.


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## Cynth1a (Jan 2, 2015)

I personally believe it is art. Video games a can be a medium for things like story telling, and if you think about some of the plots in games it definitely takes time to come up with. Although, games like gta don't have much to it you can't deny the graphics...


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## Coach (Jan 2, 2015)

Yes, Pokemon Art Academy.


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## LunaMoon Crossing (Jan 2, 2015)

music is art. video games have music. 
design is art. video games have design. 
video games are creative. art is creative.

...OF COURSE ITS ART! How could it not?


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## chuchoo (Jan 2, 2015)

Everything can be an art in a sense. Not all video games are art but video games can be art.


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## Jarrad (Jan 2, 2015)

I take back what I said earlier
Some games can be classed as "art", whilst many others cannot. Here's an example:
Art: The last of us
Not art: Tetris 

Art: Pokemon Omega Ruby
Not art: Flappy birds

Art: Assassins creed
Not art: Pokemon pinball


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## Cynth1a (Jan 2, 2015)

Coach said:


> Yes, Pokemon Art Academy.



This is literally the only justification we need. :')


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## Alyssa (Jan 2, 2015)

I think so.


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## Rasha (Jan 4, 2015)

of course


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## n64king (Jan 5, 2015)

Omg that Jambette shrine...


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## diogocrossing (Jan 6, 2015)

Saying that something isn't or is an art form will always lead to a lot of discussion. In theory, games can AND should be art. They should be considered as art as cinema and television is, since not only cinema and television are forms of media (like videogames) but they can give a aesthetic perception just as a painting, a building, a theater show.

But we have to distinguish what is art and what is entertainment in media-driven art forms. Of course, if we consider a game like Child of Light, one can easily say that it is a work of art. But if we pick a game like Call of Duty, people will take a few steps back and call it "entertainment". This works for cinema and television as well. We can't put Ingmar Bergman's Persona and Mean Girls in the same sack and call both of them "art".

This will always come from what you perceive as art, what you learn, what you experience, what will mess with you inside. I don't consider Animal Crossing art, but if you bring me a game like Dear Esther, or even one of my favourites, Bioshock, I'll sing you the praises and force you to listen to how fantastic those works are.

I'd talk a lot more about it but in the first page there was an user who said pretty much everything.


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## lazuli (Jan 6, 2015)

video games are a great medium to be explored bc it combines style, music, setting, composition, writing, character development n stuff in a way that includes the player in the story.
at least, good video games do that.


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## Dustmop (Jan 6, 2015)

ZR388 said:


> I don't know why anyone would say no.
> 
> Especially considering you *need* an art degree to make a game



Well, **** indie games then, they're not art.


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## tobi! (Jan 6, 2015)

Dustmop said:


> Well, **** indie games then, they're not art. View attachment 79928



^^

But yeah, I'd call them art. But then again, anything is called art. Taking selfies is art. Filming yourself playing video games is art. 

"subjects of study primarily concerned with the processes and products of human *creativity* and social life, such as languages, literature, and history (as contrasted with scientific or technical subjects)."


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## diogocrossing (Jan 7, 2015)

Norski said:


> ^^
> 
> But yeah, I'd call them art. But then again, anything is called art. Taking selfies is art. Filming yourself playing video games is art.
> 
> "subjects of study primarily concerned with the processes and products of human *creativity* and social life, such as languages, literature, and history (as contrasted with scientific or technical subjects)."



^ errrrr that is questionable though. you can't really compare the work of your typical selfie taker and a photographer who made his/hers portfolio around taking portraits of people...


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## lazuli (Jan 7, 2015)

ZR388 said:


> I don't know why anyone would say no.
> 
> Especially considering you need an art degree to make a game



oh how i laugh _so very much_
you can NOT have an art degree of some sort and make a great text adventure without any images at all


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## Dustmop (Jan 7, 2015)

computertrash said:


> oh how i laugh _so very much_
> you can NOT have an art degree of some sort and make a great text adventure without any images at all



You could not have an art degree and still be capable of learning how to use programs like Photoshop and Maya?? :v

Ain't rocket science.


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## lazuli (Jan 7, 2015)

Dustmop said:


> You could not have an art degree and still be capable of learning how to use programs like Photoshop and Maya?? :v
> 
> Ain't rocket science.



duh
im not even 18 and im certified in photoshop and illustrator


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## Alcor (Jan 9, 2015)

For me personally, art is about expression projected onto a medium for others to explore. This medium could be anything from music, video, writings, drawings, sculptures, and yes video games too.

There's however a borderline for me when something becomes more about it's practicality than its expression.

The difference between and editorial, and a poem.
Architectures as just being another building, while others might catch your eye.
A blank canvas, and an abstract painting.
A toy, and an interactive sculpture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZysu9QcceM
If you apply the same thing to games, you'll find similarities where you might draw your own line if it's art or not.

Is Tetris art?... Well MoMA took it into their art collection... does that mean it's definitively art for me?
Well, no, because I don't really get anything more out of playing Tetris than just enjoying it as a puzzle game.

You can make this comparison to abstract art. I don't understand abstract art but there is something pleasing to the eye with some of them.

So, point being, whether if you experience the creator's intended expression behind it or not, games itself is a medium for art.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dINgx0y4GqM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAs4Dy-lh8E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSm-UzWzO2E


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## Tinkalila (Jan 9, 2015)

Not a clear cut answer.
Yes, video games are art in the sense that they have art in them. 3d models, pixel art, voice acting, that's all art. Video games that tell stories would almost definitely be considered art. But this is because of the story, not gameplay.
Video games are often composed entirely of art. But just because it's pieced together of different art forms, does that make the game itself art?
My answer is maybe. Video games can be full of different art forms and tell amazing stories, but those are art on their own. The act of putting that art together, to make the video game, is what is truly being asked here. And that's debatable.


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