# N. Korea is so isolated... what is North Korea?



## Haskell (Feb 16, 2017)

Which country would you consider more communist?

The choices are; Cuba, China, Laos, North Korea, and Vietnam.

Explain your reasoning?


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## N e s s (Feb 16, 2017)

North Korea because Kim is crazy af


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## Katelyn (Feb 16, 2017)

Uhh is there even competition with North Korea in this poll? lol


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## moonford (Feb 16, 2017)

I'd say either Cuba or maybe China...

North Korea isn't a communist country though...


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## forestyne (Feb 16, 2017)

why does this poll exist tho

Also wasn't Kim Jong Un's half brother assassinated the other day or was that fake news?

EDIT: ok that happened. I wonder why?


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## Katelyn (Feb 16, 2017)

forestyne said:


> why does this poll exist tho
> 
> Also wasn't Kim Jong Un's half brother assassinated the other day or was that fake news?
> 
> EDIT: ok that happened. I wonder why?



Now if only we could find a way to assassinate him lmao


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## Corrie (Feb 16, 2017)

Yeah, North Korea is screwed and I feel bad for all who live there.


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## visibleghost (Feb 16, 2017)

do ppl rhink communist=Bad Dictarorship ??

i mean north korea isnt rly super communist w/ how resources are divided just saying.
north korea is a gross dictatorship.

also u probably should add a bit more info or whatever bc now youre just making another political poll with no explanation which kind isnt Great


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## Red Cat (Feb 16, 2017)

Like visibleghost said, communism is more about how the economy is run than how political power is allocated. During the Cold War, communism was often mixed with authoritarianism, but that isn't the case so much any more.


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## nintendofan85 (Feb 16, 2017)

North Korea for obvious reasons.


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## Haskell (Feb 16, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> do ppl rhink communist=Bad Dictarorship ??
> 
> i mean north korea isnt rly super communist w/ how resources are divided just saying.
> north korea is a gross dictatorship.
> ...



This is a poll about communism.

If you really don't want to participate, please don't post.

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nintendofan85 said:


> North Korea for obvious reasons.



I agree. I wanted to see if anyone would think that any of these other countries were of higher communism.

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Red Cat said:


> Like visibleghost said, communism is more about how the economy is run than how political power is allocated. During the Cold War, communism was often mixed with authoritarianism, but that isn't the case so much any more.



Today a lot of people see communism as something political.

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Corrie said:


> Yeah, North Korea is screwed and I feel bad for all who live there.



Their citizens are brainwashed. It's sad.


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## moonford (Feb 16, 2017)

Raskell said:


> This is a poll about communism.
> 
> If you really don't want to participate, please don't post.



Their comment was about communism though?


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## Haskell (Feb 16, 2017)

Katelyn said:


> Now if only we could find a way to assassinate him lmao



I'm sure many governments world wide, including America's government has tried. N. Korea is serious threat and a burden.

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visibleghost said:


> also u probably should add a bit more info or whatever bc now youre just making another political poll with no explanation which kind isnt Great



This is what I was referencing. visibleghost did comment about communism and I appreciate him/her taking part in this thread. I was wrong for not quoting and my original reply was confusing. I apologize. 

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N e s s said:


> North Korea because Kim is crazy af



Lol. Yup. Kim Jong Un is a prime example of when political power gets to someone's head.

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forestyne said:


> why does this poll exist tho



Polls are a great way to represent the partaker's opinion on a subject.


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## piichinu (Feb 16, 2017)

i wud say china but i chose the lol bruh option


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## Red Cat (Feb 16, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Today a lot of people see communism as something political.


Communism is political in the sense that how a country's economy is run is a political issue. Kim Jong Un being crazy has nothing to do with him being communist (I don't even know if he really is an ideological communist). There is some relationship between communism and authoritarianism, but it's not a very strong relationship. Capitalist countries can have crazy, power-hungry authoritarian leaders and heavily socialist countries can work just fine if the leaders can be held accountable by the people.


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## Hopeless Opus (Feb 16, 2017)

china and north korea really seem like 2 of the worst places anyone could live when it comes to communism & bad dictatorship


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## f11 (Feb 16, 2017)

Cuba is the most communist I'd say. I want to move there eventually. North Korea isn't even communist so op ur yuge DUMB, SAD.

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Also does tbt not know the definition of communist kek.


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## Mink777 (Feb 16, 2017)

It's definitely not North Korea, so let's get that out of our heads kids...

NOT!


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## scotch (Feb 16, 2017)

north korea isn't communist, and you forgot Russia.


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## moonford (Feb 16, 2017)

f11 said:


> Cuba is the most communist I'd say. I want to move there eventually. North Korea isn't even communist so op ur yuge DUMB, SAD.
> 
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> 
> Also does tbt not know the definition of communist kek.



I think anybody who has stepped in school when they were 12 - 17 should know about Communism, its required for History, kek.


North Korea isn't a Communist country but it is a totalitarian dictatorship and I think people believe North Korea is a Communist country because of the way it runs, the people are brainwashed there, its insane.


*a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs*

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enders said:


> north korea isn't communist, and you forgot Russia.



Russia isn't a communist country anymore. =/
It hasn't been since 1989 I believe.


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## Haskell (Feb 16, 2017)

Whiteflamingo said:


> Russia isn't a communist country anymore. =/
> It hasn't been since 1989 I believe.



This. 

Russia is surely not the most luxurious, reasonable, or likeable nations in the world but sometimes it is misrepresented. Don't get me wrong, I would be scared to be anywhere in their territory.

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badgrl2 said:


> i wud say china but i chose the lol bruh option



lol. Good choice! 

I tend to have a tendency to put a "joke" option in polls.


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## nintendofan85 (Feb 16, 2017)

Whiteflamingo said:


> Russia isn't a communist country anymore. =/
> It hasn't been since 1989 I believe.



*1991, although many of the revolutions took place in 1989 as well as 1990.


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## moonford (Feb 16, 2017)

nintendofan85 said:


> *1991, although many of the revolutions took place in 1989 as well as 1990.


My memory is terrible at 3am, the date's were there but they just didn't match up...*takes sleeping pills* night. ♪


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## visibleghost (Feb 17, 2017)

Raskell said:


> This is a poll about communism.
> 
> If you really don't want to participate, please don't post.
> 
> ...


im cryign
communusm is political but it has nothing to do with democracy/dictatorship. it is anout the ecpnomy but it can also be used to describe a more socialist communism that is against class division etc. i think it's called marx something idk but like Lmao Dood I Am Talking about communism im just saying that u all are wrong ???
pls tell me how north korea is a Su?er  ommunist country


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## radical6 (Feb 17, 2017)

Vietnam is the winner because vietnam is the best country


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## visibleghost (Feb 17, 2017)

Raskell said:


> This.
> 
> Russia is surely not the most luxurious, reasonable, or likeable nations in the world but sometimes it is misrepresented. Don't get me wrong, I would be scared to be anywhere in their territory.
> 
> ...



communist =/= bad, evil, sad people, everyones starving and also on fire and did u know communism equals cannibalism :000
youre painting the wrong picture of communism as an ideology and it's your thread so maybe get your facts right??

communism in practice has often led to dictatorship because people just want al the money and power etc. so many communist countries were filled w/ corruption and power hungry leaders. also many countries say "we r communist u wouldnt understand !!! uwu" when actually they are a dictatorship with some communist ideas maybe and their people are suffering. kinda like how north korea calls themselves Democratic and how the democratic republic of congo isnt All That fdemocratic .


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## Haskell (Feb 17, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> did u know communism equals cannibalism :000



How does communism equal cannibalism?...


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## moonford (Feb 17, 2017)

Raskell said:


> How does communism equal cannibalism?...



They were mocking people who make communism out to be the worst thing ever, e.g you.


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## Haskell (Feb 17, 2017)

Whiteflamingo said:


> They were mocking people who make communism out to be the worst thing ever, e.g you.



Communism looks good on paper but doesn't play out good.


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## moonford (Feb 17, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Communism looks good on paper but doesn't play out good.



Okie dokie, we're all entitled to an opinion. c:


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## cornimer (Feb 17, 2017)

I don't really know enough to make a proper judgement but my first instinct is to say North Korea


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## visibleghost (Feb 17, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Communism looks good on paper but doesn't play out good.



ok so while i dont really think it would be the best idea ever to have a very communist economy i think you're being really unfair or w/e to the ideology. communism isnt about being a corrupt dictator of a country filled with dying, oppressed people.

capitalism isnt a perfect ideology either. capitalism needs poor people in order to function. it relies on c. im not saying that communism would be a better option economically but no system is perfect and just because a bunch of communist countries have sucked doesnt mean that communism as an ideology is bad. it has been executed badly but that doesnt mean that the ideology is evil and bad.
it sounds like you think communist is, like, a Rly Bad thing to be. maybe u should chill out?

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VanessaMay18 said:


> I don't really know enough to make a proper judgement but my first instinct is to say North Korea



why tho


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## Red Cat (Feb 17, 2017)

Raskell is right that communism hasn't played out well in practice, but that doesn't mean it's a bad ideology. If the state is going to run the economy, then a country has to have completely free and fair elections and strong mechanisms for accountability for public officials to prevent abuse. The USSR failed because it didn't have those things.

However, pure capitalism has some conditions it needs in order to work. Mainly, everyone has to have integrity. Monopolies, false advertising, manipulation, and stealing happen when an economy is left unregulated, which is why no major economy has a pure capitalist system.


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## oath2order (Feb 17, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> do ppl rhink communist=Bad Dictarorship ??
> 
> i mean north korea isnt rly super communist w/ how resources are divided just saying.
> north korea is a gross dictatorship.
> ...



Thank you!!! Jesus christ the lack of understand about what communism actually is is insane.


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## Alolan_Apples (Feb 17, 2017)

I voted Cuba.
Cuba is a communist nation. North Korea is a fascist nation.
Communism is an economic system, but fascism is a government system.
That's why I didn't vote North Korea. Communism does not include language police, at least Marxist commumism doesn't. But North Korea has it.


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## forestyne (Feb 17, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> ok so while i dont really think it would be the best idea ever to have a very communist economy i think you're being really unfair or w/e to the ideology. communism isnt about being a corrupt dictator of a country filled with dying, oppressed people.
> 
> capitalism isnt a perfect ideology either. capitalism needs poor people in order to function. it relies on c. im not saying that communism would be a better option economically but no system is perfect and just because a bunch of communist countries have sucked doesnt mean that communism as an ideology is bad. it has been executed badly but that doesnt mean that the ideology is evil and bad.
> it sounds like you think communist is, like, a Rly Bad thing to be. maybe u should chill out?
> ...



ok but no. there's not one instance in history where communism hasn't played out well. it looks neat on paper, but doesn't work in practice. there's only a handful of countries who are still communist because of wars, because it's impractical and Americans kept calling people 'commies' in the swingin' 60s ?? America just hates communism lOl. But I mostly blame the trigger-fingered US presidents for going to war because it would risk them _losing all their moneys_;;

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Do u hate communism so much you had to make this thread or is it just adding more fuel to the political arguments.

Ok also Vietnam isn't technically communist but sorta.


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## visibleghost (Feb 19, 2017)

forestyne said:


> ok but no. there's not one instance in history where communism hasn't played out well. it looks neat on paper, but doesn't work in practice. there's only a handful of countries who are still communist because of wars, because it's impractical and Americans kept calling people 'commies' in the swingin' 60s ?? America just hates communism lOl. But I mostly blame the trigger-fingered US presidents for going to war because it would risk them _losing all their moneys_;;
> 
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> 
> ...



yes i know it hasnt worked in practice but im just saying that communism isnt this horrible thing that raskell seems to think it is. this whole thread is filled with the american hatred of communism and communists and i dont get it rly .

and ya i think raskell just wanted to let everyone know how much they hate communism /:


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## Haskell (Feb 19, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> and ya i think raskell just wanted to let everyone know how much they hate communism /:



Please don't assume things.

The poll was to represent what people thought which country was more communism than the other.

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forestyne said:


> Do u hate communism so much you had to make this thread or is it just adding more fuel to the political arguments.
> 
> Ok also Vietnam isn't technically communist but sorta.



Same thing I said to visibleghost.


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## visibleghost (Feb 19, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Please don't assume things.
> 
> The poll was to represent what people thought which country was more communism than the other.
> 
> ...



so by "assuming things" u mean literally reading your posts and seeing that you Sure Dont Like Communism ..?
if you had wanted a serious discussion you should have added more countries, some information about it (so it wouldnt turn into the misinformed mess it is now) and maybe read about communism before posting a thread about it.

also no one had answered why they think north korea is the most communist country. ..



Raskell said:


> Russia is surely not the most luxurious, reasonable, or likeable nations in the world but sometimes it is misrepresented. Don't get me wrong, I would be scared to be anywhere in their territory.


 
this Rly implies that your opinions on communism is kinda Rly negative and since you dont seem to want to discuss how the countries are communist or why you think that i get the feeling that you just want to let everyone know how much you hate communism


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## Haskell (Feb 19, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> so by "assuming things" u mean literally reading your posts and seeing that you Sure Dont Like Communism ..?
> if you had wanted a serious discussion you should have added more countries, some information about it (so it wouldnt turn into the misinformed mess it is now) and maybe read about communism before posting a thread about it.
> 
> also no one had answered why they think north korea is the most communist country. ..
> ...



Make a thread the way you want it then. Stop trying to manipulate and twist my thread. Thank you.

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visibleghost said:


> this Rly implies that your opinions on communism is kinda Rly negative and since you dont seem to want to discuss how the countries are communist or why you think that i get the feeling that you just want to let everyone know how much you hate communism



No, that really implied on me knowing how Russia is. Russia is a gross dictatorship. Thank you.


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## OLoveLy (Feb 19, 2017)

I vote for North Korea because they have very strict laws...


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## toadsworthy (Feb 19, 2017)

It is interesting to see people's perspectives of what communist means


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## Red Cat (Feb 19, 2017)

toadsworthy said:


> It is interesting to see people's perspectives of what communist means



People who are opposed to socialism / communism as an economic system want other people to immediately associate communism with the Soviet Union, North Korea, etc. so that they'll think communism is evil. It's much easier to use those scare tactics than try to argue the pros and cons of capitalism versus socialism versus communism, because when people are exposed to real debates over the different systems, they are more likely prefer socialism or communism over capitalism which capitalists, especially big-money interests, don't want.


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## Ichiban (Feb 19, 2017)

Red Cat said:


> People who are opposed to socialism / communism as an economic system want other people to immediately associate communism with the Soviet Union, North Korea, etc. so that they'll think communism is evil. It's much easier to use those scare tactics than try to argue the pros and cons of capitalism versus socialism versus communism, because when people are exposed to real debates over the different systems, they are more likely prefer socialism or communism over capitalism which capitalists, especially big-money interests, don't want.



Exactly! In all reality, communism is much, much better then capitalism! Everyone earns the same, healthcare is free, it's more balanced and ideally would have no social hierarchy, but it would need a good leader, which in the case of most communist governments over history, was nonexistent


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## Haskell (Feb 19, 2017)

FreeHelium said:


> Exactly! In all reality, communism is much, much better then capitalism! Everyone earns the same, healthcare is free, it's more balanced and ideally would have no social hierarchy, but it would need a good leader, which in the case of most communist governments over history, was nonexistent



Everyone doesn't work the same. Free healthcare is hard to mandate. Look at France. Ideally, it has no social hierarchy but... every society has a social class. Define "good leader".


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## Ichiban (Feb 19, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Everyone doesn't work the same. Free healthcare is hard to mandate. Look at France. Ideally, it has no social hierarchy but... every society has a social class. Define "good leader".


By "good leader" I mean one who is supported by and supportive of his people, not one who could care less of them, the only communist leaders that come to mind that cared for the people were Fidel Castro and Mikhail Gorbachev, perhaps even Kim il-Sung (thought it's highly debatable and lacking much evidence to support either side of the argument for Kim il-Sung)


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## Haskell (Feb 19, 2017)

FreeHelium said:


> By "good leader" I mean one who is supported by and supportive of his people, not one who could care less of them, the only communist leaders that come to mind that cared for the people were Fidel Castro and Mikhail Gorbachev, perhaps even Kim il-Sung (thought it's highly debatable and lacking much evidence to support either side of the argument for Kim il-Sung)



Fidel Castro cared for his people? Ok... a lot of people left Cuba because of that man.


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## Soda Fox (Feb 20, 2017)

FreeHelium said:


> Exactly! In all reality, communism is much, much better then capitalism! Everyone earns the same, healthcare is free, it's more balanced and ideally would have no social hierarchy, but it would need a good leader, which in the case of most communist governments over history, was nonexistent



This has been said before, but while this concept sounds and looks great on paper, it is very hard to get into place and make it work for everyone.  People are naturally selfish, and many are naturally lazy.  While you might have some people willing to go above and beyond to help others, most will want to look out for only themselves and their families.  There isn't anything wrong with this, but it makes the system described by communism very hard to achieve and easy to exploit.


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## Red Cat (Feb 20, 2017)

FreeHelium said:


> Exactly! In all reality, communism is much, much better then capitalism! Everyone earns the same, healthcare is free, it's more balanced and ideally would have no social hierarchy, but it would need a good leader, which in the case of most communist governments over history, was nonexistent



First of all, the healthcare isn't free, it's payed for by higher taxes. I'm all for single-payer, but it's important to acknowledge where the funding is coming from. Everyone earning the same is not a good thing. People should get payed more for doing a better job and for doing jobs which require more skills and training. That being said, income inequality is a big problem in many countries. If an employee is making $20k per year and the CEO is making $20 mil per year, I can see the justification for paying the CEO more, but not 1,000 times more. A CEO is not 1,000 times smarter and does not work 1,000 times harder than an employee on the ground, so having those extremes are ridiculous. The income curve shouldn't be completely flattened, but it needs to be smoothed over a bit.


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## visibleghost (Feb 20, 2017)

OLoveLy said:


> I vote for North Korea because they have very strict laws...



thats not what communism is. capitalist countries can also be led by a dictator


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## forestyne (Feb 20, 2017)

FreeHelium said:


> Exactly! In all reality, communism is much, much better then capitalism! Everyone earns the same, healthcare is free, it's more balanced and ideally would have no social hierarchy, but it would need a good leader, which in the case of most communist governments over history, was nonexistent



Health care never was, and still isn't, free in communist countries. It looks good in theory, but it's very hard to put into practice. Some people are complete slackers and when they get the same pay as hard-working people, there's a lot of uproar and upset.

WHY HAS NOBODY VOTED VIETNAM, THAT'S THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT WAS WELL AND TRULY COMMUNIST, THERE WAS EVEN A WAR, 58,000 INNOCENT AMERICANS AND 2,000,000 VIETNAMESE DIED FOR VIETNAM TO BE CALLED A COMMUNIST COUNTRY. HO CHI MINH FOUGHT 19 YEARS OF AMERICAN BULL**** AND DIED TRYING TO MAKE VIETNAM COMMUNIST AND BETTER FOR HIS PEOPLE. WHY IS NORTH KOREA - WHO AREN'T EVEN COMMUNIST - VOTED MORE IN THIS DAMN THREAD???


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## Haskell (Feb 20, 2017)

forestyne said:


> WHY HAS NOBODY VOTED VIETNAM, THAT'S THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT WAS WELL AND TRULY COMMUNIST, THERE WAS EVEN A WAR, 58,000 INNOCENT AMERICANS AND 2,000,000 VIETNAMESE DIED FOR VIETNAM TO BE CALLED A COMMUNIST COUNTRY. HO CHI MINH FOUGHT 19 YEARS OF AMERICAN BULL**** AND DIED TRYING TO MAKE VIETNAM COMMUNIST AND BETTER FOR HIS PEOPLE. WHY IS NORTH KOREA - WHO AREN'T EVEN COMMUNIST - VOTED MORE IN THIS DAMN THREAD???



Why has no one still voted for Vietnam then? You had a vote.


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## forestyne (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Why has no one still voted for Vietnam then? You had a vote.



That's what I was just asking. Don't ask me. Why did _you_ add North Korea if it's not communist?


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## f11 (Feb 20, 2017)

Click like if your a communist/leftist or support it even if it supposedly "doesn't work on paper". Like even if you like the idea of it. Or if you just hate capitalism


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## forestyne (Feb 20, 2017)

f11 said:


> Click like if your a communist/leftist or support it even if it supposedly "doesn't work on paper". Like even if you like the idea of it. Or if you just hate capitalism


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## Soda Fox (Feb 20, 2017)

f11 said:


> Click like if your a communist/leftist or support it even if it supposedly "doesn't work on paper". Like even if you like the idea of it. Or if you just hate capitalism



I'm not clicking like because although I think it's a cute idea I think it's unobtainable and that capitalism, while flawed, is the easiest way to allow people to be "free", and I'll choose the option that allows what I consider to offer the most choice and freedom to make ones own decisions.


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## Haskell (Feb 20, 2017)

forestyne said:


> That's what I was just asking. Don't ask me. Why did _you_ add North Korea if it's not communist?



You cannot simply ask why no one voted for something and then not vote for that said something. Makes no sense.

And North Korea is communist...


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## visibleghost (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> You cannot simply ask why no one voted for something and then not vote for that said something. Makes no sense.
> 
> And North Korea is communist...



how is north korea communist? is it because they call themselves communist, just like how they call tvemselves democratic?


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## forestyne (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> You cannot simply ask why no one voted for something and then not vote for that said something. Makes no sense.
> 
> And North Korea is communist...



But it's not though. North Korea can't be called a left-wing country or government.


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## f11 (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> You cannot simply ask why no one voted for something and then not vote for that said something. Makes no sense.
> 
> And North Korea is communist...


Bruhh you don't know what communist means omg.


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## Haskell (Feb 20, 2017)

f11 said:


> Bruhh you don't know what communist means omg.




Communism is why there's a North and South Korea, my friend.

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North Korea is communist, from what we know. Although they call their economic system, "juche"... many don't believe it has changed. The interviews, the records, the research proves otherwise.

North Korea is so isolated... what is North Korea?


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## visibleghost (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Communism is why there's a North and South Korea, my friend.
> 
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> 
> ...



the korean war isnt the definition of communism tho


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## forestyne (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Communism is why there's a North and South Korea, my friend.
> 
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> 
> ...



But North Korea isn't communist just because it's isolated... I haven't gone outside in like three weeks, that doesn't make me a communist. The way their economy works and how people are paid in North Korea is not communist.


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## Haskell (Feb 20, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> the korean war isnt the definition of communism tho



Korea split because of communism. 

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forestyne said:


> But North Korea isn't communist just because it's isolated... I haven't gone outside in like three weeks, that doesn't make me a communist. The way their economy works and how people are paid in North Korea is not communist.



I'm saying that it is hard to know what goes on inside North Korea since they're isolated!


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## forestyne (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Korea split because of communism.
> 
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> 
> ...



But from what we _know_, we cannot call them communist. Lack of knowledge on how a country is actually running itself doesn't make it a communist country. My point still stands.


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## Haskell (Feb 20, 2017)

forestyne said:


> But from what we _know_, we cannot call them communist. Lack of knowledge on how a country is actually running itself doesn't make it a communist country. My point still stands.



From the research, investigations, and reports over the years, we can assume they're communist.


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## f11 (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> From the research, investigations, and reports over the years, we can assume they're communist.


but you can't assume they are communist if...they are isolated either. So reports that they aren't communist are automatically wrong but your research from the isolated North Korea means it is? Bruh what's with the double standard??


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## Haskell (Feb 20, 2017)

f11 said:


> but you can't assume they are communist if...they are isolated either. So reports that they aren't communist are automatically wrong but your research from the isolated North Korea means it is? Bruh what's with the double standard??



From the research, investigations, and reports* over the **years*, we can assume they're communist. 

With N. Korea being isolated, new research is hard to credit.


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## f11 (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> From the research, investigations, and reports* over the **years*, we can assume they're communist.
> 
> With N. Korea being isolated, new research is hard to credit.


Link your research please.


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## forestyne (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> From the research, investigations, and reports over the years, we can assume they're communist.



But old research can't be truthful, as they've changed *over the years.* So no, we can't assume they're communist because new research can't be credited, because neither can the old reports and research


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## Haskell (Feb 20, 2017)

forestyne said:


> But old research can't be truthful, as they've changed *over the years.* So no, we can't assume they're communist because new research can't be credited, because neither can the old reports and research



N. Korea is communist. Common fact.

Yes, and N. Korea is totally for change...

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f11 said:


> Link your research please.



Do your research please.


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## forestyne (Feb 20, 2017)

f11 said:


> Link your research please.



The resources will probably be from an anti-eastern news outlet.


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## f11 (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> N. Korea is communist. Common fact.
> 
> Yes, and N. Korea is totally for change...
> 
> ...


UM you're the one calling it common fact and stating you have done all this research but you don't have anything to back it up soo?


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## forestyne (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> N. Korea is communist. Common fact.
> 
> Yes, and N. Korea is totally for change...
> 
> ...



How about citing your research first?

The Korean war does not mean communism. A lot has changed about their economy since then. The way their economy is working at the moment does NOT make it communist. Common fact.


----------



## Haskell (Feb 20, 2017)

f11 said:


> UM you're the one calling it common fact and stating you have done all this research but you don't have anything to back it up soo?



I'm being as ignorant as you are.

Let's just agree to ignorance... and come back when *we've both *done some research. Kk?


----------



## forestyne (Feb 20, 2017)

where is this fabled 'research'


----------



## f11 (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> I'm being as ignorant as you are.
> 
> Let's just agree to ignorance... and come back when *we've both *done some research. Kk?


OMG but you just said that you've done all of "From the research, investigations, and reports over the years, we can assume they're communist." so where is it... unless.. you lied over the internet about sources you never looked at to prove a wrong point


----------



## Haskell (Feb 20, 2017)

We're all being ignorant. North Korea is so isolated that... what is North Korea?


----------



## f11 (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> We're all being ignorant. North Korea is so isolated that... what is North Korea?


IM not ignorant you are just admit your wrong instead of this "we are ignorant" bs


----------



## Haskell (Feb 20, 2017)

f11 said:


> IM not ignorant you are just admit your wrong instead of this "we are ignorant" bs



Perhaps I am wrong but I think we're both being ignorant.


----------



## forestyne (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> We're all being ignorant. North Korea is so isolated that... what is North Korea?



well it sure as hell ain't communist


----------



## Haskell (Feb 20, 2017)

forestyne said:


> well it sure as hell ain't communist



Why not?


----------



## forestyne (Feb 20, 2017)

North Korea is actually a chicken salad sandwich guys.

Just because North Korea was backed by the Soviet Union after Japan lost control over Korea in WW2, doesn't make it communist. There's no evidence within the last decade or so that North Korea actually is communist. 






- - - Post Merge - - -



Raskell said:


> Why not?



Because they dropped all evidence and ties with communism in 2002??


----------



## Haskell (Feb 20, 2017)

forestyne said:


> North Korea is actually a chicken salad sandwich guys.
> Because they dropped all evidence and ties with communism in 2002??



How do you know they dropped all evidence and ties with communism in 2002?


----------



## Soda Fox (Feb 20, 2017)

Can you all just start linking your sources and let those sources paint the picture instead of this back and forth of opinions?


----------



## Haskell (Feb 20, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> Can you all just start linking your sources and let those sources paint the picture instead of this back and forth of opinions?



My statements have been opinions and just opinions. I'm open to hearing about North Korea not being communism though.


----------



## forestyne (Feb 20, 2017)

Here.


It does make a lot of interesting points. I'm open to reading factually based sources stating that North Korea is actually communist. There just aren't any here on this thread.


----------



## Soda Fox (Feb 20, 2017)

forestyne said:


> North Korea is actually a chicken salad sandwich guys.
> 
> Just because North Korea was backed by the Soviet Union after Japan lost control over Korea in WW2, doesn't make it communist. There's no evidence within the last decade or so that North Korea actually is communist.
> 
> ...



The article you linked doesn't have evidence that they are no longer communist. And I have to guess without much evidence that the state owns and controls everything and the people get whatever the government decides to give them. It is obviously a dictatorship but the previous sentence alone makes it more similar to communism than capitalism. And I think that's what's being argued by Raskell.

Perhaps not true communism, but again true communism is very hard to achieve. I would say N. Korea is similar enough to communism to be counted in this poll as such.

- - - Post Merge - - -



forestyne said:


> Here.
> 
> 
> It does make a lot of interesting points. I'm open to reading factually based sources stating that North Korea is actually communist. There just aren't any here on this thread.



Thanks for this. A monarchy does fit a lot better than communism. One guy rules all and all others are pretty much slaves.


----------



## forestyne (Feb 20, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> The article you linked doesn't have evidence that they are no longer communist. And I have to guess without much evidence that the state owns and controls everything and the people get whatever the government decides to give them. It is obviously a dictatorship but the previous sentence alone makes it more similar to communism than capitalism. And I think that's what's being argued by Raskell.
> 
> Perhaps not true communism, but again true communism is very hard to achieve. I would say N. Korea is similar enough to communism to be counted in this poll as such.
> 
> ...



The family monarchy ruling can be argued as a point against it actually being communist, as it is being run by a family of 'royalty' as such. The rulers are most likely getting most of the money and giving citizens the same amount, far little than what they are holding back themselves, thus it can also be argued that it's not communism. But like Raskell said, we do not have enough resources to truly say whether that is actually the case, as so little is known about North Korea from the past decade. 

It is fairly easy to look at the split of Korea and, when seeing that the US backed South Korea and the Soviet Union backed North Korea, think that North Korea + Soviet Russia = Communism, when from what we do know, that is not how they run the country.

Regardless, we can say that North Korea's leader seems to hate the West.


----------



## Haskell (Feb 20, 2017)

forestyne said:


> Regardless, we can say that North Korea's leader seems to hate the West.



Because he's coo-coo for the cocoa puffs.


----------



## forestyne (Feb 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Because he's coo-coo for the cocoa puffs.



The hell is that even _meant to mean_?


----------



## Haskell (Feb 20, 2017)

forestyne said:


> The hell is that even _meant to mean_?



The leader and leaders of N. Korea are unstable, reckless, insane, moronic, selfish, and bad leaders.


----------



## Dim (Feb 20, 2017)

forestyne said:


> The hell is that even _meant to mean_?


he's a cereal-loving super villain


----------



## moonford (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> The leader and leaders of N. Korea are unstable, reckless, insane, moronic, selfish, and bad leaders.



Yes and a lot of leaders from the west are too.


----------



## visibleghost (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> My statements have been opinions and just opinions. I'm open to hearing about North Korea not being communism though.



..... ok ... so these "facts" youve been talking about were actually opinions?
north korea is a dictatorship. there is a big class division and resources are not shared in a communist way. it is authoritarian, which to some means communist, but economy wise it isnt communist.
if we are doing the communism and socialism link too i would personally not say that north korea is socialist considering the human rights situation in the country but maybe im wrong and the democratic republic of north korea is actually a socialist and communist nation! maybe they are even a democracy, y'know, since we are doing opinions and not facts ....


----------



## LambdaDelta (Feb 21, 2017)

someone please put this thread out of its misery already


----------



## Greys0n (Feb 21, 2017)

North Korea, ppl there are very poor and they dream to escape to South Korea


----------



## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> The leader and leaders of N. Korea are unstable, reckless, insane, moronic, selfish, and bad leaders.


(I went to bed, 2sleepy2post more lol)
What even _are_ cocoa puffs? What does that have to do with him being a bit of a whack job?
Plus, there are plenty of bad leaders in Western countries too, such as Donald Trump... Donald Trump and Donald Trump 
Eisenhower did **** all too. Churchill was lazy, George Washington started slavery and let us never forget about Hitler, who North Korea's leader seems to worship. (I saw a BBC report that stated that he frequently recreated Hitler's invasion of Poland, but I'm not sure how reliable it is)

- - - Post Merge - - -



LambdaDelta said:


> someone please put this thread out of its misery already



its not breaking any rules tho so

- - - Post Merge - - -



Nox said:


> he's a cereal-loving super villain



 we must boycott cereal


----------



## Soda Fox (Feb 21, 2017)

forestyne said:


> (I went to bed, 2sleepy2post more lol)
> What even _are_ cocoa puffs? What does that have to do with him being a bit of a whack job?
> Plus, there are plenty of bad leaders in Western countries too, such as Donald Trump... Donald Trump and Donald Trump
> Eisenhower did **** all too. Churchill was lazy, George Washington started slavery and let us never forget about Hitler, who North Korea's leader seems to worship. (I saw a BBC report that stated that he frequently recreated Hitler's invasion of Poland, but I'm not sure how reliable it is)
> ...



It's just a phrase. In the cocoa puffs commercials the bird is crazy/"coo coo for cocoa puffs" and people use the phrase to mean someone is crazy.


----------



## SensaiGallade (Feb 21, 2017)

Is anyone else here on the sidelines just watching the whole debate, or is it just me?


----------



## visibleghost (Feb 21, 2017)

Greys0n said:


> North Korea, ppl there are very poor and they dream to escape to South Korea



thats not what communism is. a country can be bad and poor w/o being a communist.

please can anyone who voted north korea actually say why they think it is communist (as in the actual definition of communism. so not communism=dictatorship and bad)
pls

too lazy 2 quote more ppl cuz im on mobile so
forestyne: still, this thread is not going to go well lmao. 

sensei: i wish i were in ur position chhdsshh i should probably leave this thread bc this is just Painful


----------



## Soda Fox (Feb 21, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> thats not what communism is. a country can be bad and poor w/o being a communist.
> 
> please can anyone who voted north korea actually say why they think it is communist (as in the actual definition of communism. so not communism=dictatorship and bad)
> pls
> ...



IIRC people don't get to just visit N. Korea. I recall seeing either a documentary or a news article of someone who did manage to go in and they reported on false store fronts that give the illusion of a happy and well funded community. If you send me a pm to remind me I'll try to find that article or video and link it here tomorrow morning before I go to work.


----------



## Paperboy012305 (Feb 21, 2017)

Its prison, imagine what would happen if it wasn't.


----------



## Stepheroo (Feb 21, 2017)

SensaiGallade said:


> Is anyone else here on the sidelines just watching the whole debate, or is it just me?



I'm doing this too and judging the misinformed and ignorant people who honest to God don't know what communism is. I would find it funny, but the more info they let go in one ear and out the other hurts my heart.


----------



## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> thats not what communism is. a country can be bad and poor w/o being a communist.
> 
> please can anyone who voted north korea actually say why they think it is communist (as in the actual definition of communism. so not communism=dictatorship and bad)
> pls
> ...




So why _are_ you still here then?


----------



## visibleghost (Feb 21, 2017)

soda fox: yeah ive heard that too! i remember an ama on reddit about someone who visited north korea heres the link https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/55cdv2/just_came_back_from_north_korea_ama/



forestyne said:


> So why _are_ you still here then?



i have no idea .


----------



## f11 (Feb 21, 2017)

Hi I'm back I was banned because of this thread. But it's been around 24 hours and y'all still dont have evidence as why North Korea is communist so... anyhow,, it's a facist regime/dictatorship


----------



## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> IIRC people don't get to just visit N. Korea. I recall seeing either a documentary or a news article of someone who did manage to go in and they reported on false store fronts that give the illusion of a happy and well funded community. If you send me a pm to remind me I'll try to find that article or video and link it here tomorrow morning before I go to work.



Is this the one you mean?

It's crazy strict. No publishings of any kind, not even guide books. Laptops are searched for copies of The Interview and pornography, which is banned. No mobile phones, navigators, GPS, ect. It's crazy.

- - - Post Merge - - -



f11 said:


> Hi I'm back I was banned because of this thread. But it's been around 24 hours and y'all still dont have evidence as why North Korea is communist so... anyhow,, it's a facist regime/dictatorship



nobody seems to know what communist means here lmao


----------



## moonford (Feb 21, 2017)

forestyne said:


> Is this the one you mean?
> 
> It's crazy strict. No publishings of any kind, not even guide books. Laptops are searched for copies of The Interview and pornography, which is banned. No mobile phones, navigators, GPS, ect. It's crazy.
> 
> ...



Actually several people do, its the right wings who have posted on this thread who seem to be ignorant and appear to be here to antagonize Communism which is understandable considering its far left wing and they don't like Communist ideology.


----------



## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

Whiteflamingo said:


> Actually several people do.



But communism ≠ extreme dictatorship.


----------



## moonford (Feb 21, 2017)

forestyne said:


> But communism ≠ extreme dictatorship.



I haven't said it does, Communist leaders have often been immense dictators though so I understand why people oppose it, its due to ignorance and band wagoning.


----------



## Haskell (Feb 21, 2017)

Whiteflamingo said:


> Yes and a lot of leaders from the west are too.



Yea. The Prime Minister of Canada is a bit selfish, moronic, and reckless. Bad leader.

- - - Post Merge - - -

From mass opinion, N. Korea is communist. It probably is.

It's hard to know what North Korea really is since it's so isolated.


----------



## Corrie (Feb 21, 2017)

I feel like North Korea is very sketchy in the sense that the government lies to their citizens. I would hate to live in a place like that. I feel bad for the people trapped there. :C 
Yeah, there is no good reason to visit there.


----------



## Haskell (Feb 21, 2017)

Corrie said:


> I feel like North Korea is very sketchy in the sense that the government lies to their citizens. I would hate to live in a place like that. I feel bad for the people trapped there. :C
> Yeah, there is no good reason to visit there.



The citizens are brainwashed.


----------



## moonford (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Yea. The Prime Minister of Canada is a bit selfish, moronic, and reckless. Bad leader.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



Opinions > Facts....We don't know enough about NK to call it a Communist country (it could be, I'm not sure) because like you said its isolated and extremely private.


----------



## Haskell (Feb 21, 2017)

Whiteflamingo said:


> Opinions > Facts....We don't know enough about NK to call it a Communist country (it could be, I'm not sure) because like you said its* isolated *and* extremely private*.



Yes. Opinions > Facts

It's also a threat.


----------



## Corrie (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> The citizens are brainwashed.



That's so sad.  
I wish the country could get a new leader. Maybe they'd be better off?


----------



## moonford (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Yes. Opinions > Facts
> 
> It's also a threat.



Do you not know what that means? ( ????? > ?????)
I was being sarcastic.

I'm saying that peoples opinions don't really matter if we barely know anything about the country, I'm not saying it's not Communist and I'm not saying it is because I'm not sure. Its too private and can be a threat if they decide to attack a country because once again...we know barely anything.


----------



## Haskell (Feb 21, 2017)

Corrie said:


> That's so sad.
> I wish the country could get a new leader. Maybe they'd be better off?



They're better off dead. 

The citizens are brainwashed too much. "Giving" them a new leader would be impossible.
The government is a catastrophe. Replacing one person won't do anything.

N. Korea poses a thread to the rest of the world.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Whiteflamingo said:


> Do you not know what that means. ( ????? > ?????)
> 
> I'm saying that peoples opinions don't really matter if we barely know anything about the country, I'm not saying it's not Communist and I'm not saying it is because I'm not sure. Its too private and can be a threat if they decide to attack a country because once again...we know barely anything.



I thought you meant we're speaking opinions and nothing we're saying is substantiated because there are practically no facts available.


----------



## moonford (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> They're better off dead.
> 
> The citizens are brainwashed too much. "Giving" them a new leader would be impossible.
> The government is a catastrophe. Replacing one person won't do anything.
> ...



That is what I meant, you said its probably Communist because it was the majority of the vote here but those are opinions and opinions don't matter. Opinions > Facts means opinions are greater than facts but I was being sarcastic and...why am I explaining this, bleh!

You understand so what am I doing, or do you?


----------



## Soda Fox (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> They're better off dead.
> 
> The citizens are brainwashed too much. "Giving" them a new leader would be impossible.
> The government is a catastrophe. Replacing one person won't do anything.
> ...



First off I think this is a very bleak view of the people there and hope you reconsider if you really think the people there are better off dead.

We don't know enough about them to know that they're "too brainwashed".  I don't think anyone can be too brainwashed to save.  And really, I think a lot of those who are "brainwashed" are only acting in a way that allows them to survive in the environment they are given.

Secondly they're too small of a country to be a major threat to the rest of the world.  Really you just need to look at their failed nuclear attempts to know the leaders are like small dogs - lots of bark, not much bite.  And once Kim is out of the picture I think the country and its people have the opportunity to make something new of themselves.  I guess it depends on how much power the next person in line is able to seize, if any at all.  If Kim has a small group of people who would replace him, they could end up imploding by in-fighting for power.  We'll just have to see.

I also wanted to note that: 



Raskell said:


> From mass opinion, N. Korea is communist. It probably is.
> 
> It's hard to know what North Korea really is since it's so isolated.



Just because a lot of people say something is true doesn't mean it is.  Mass opinion said the Earth is flat many years ago and they were proven wrong.

Try not to fall into those sort of traps, my friend.  I'm here to help.


----------



## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> *They're better off dead. *
> 
> The citizens are brainwashed too much. "Giving" them a new leader would be impossible.
> The government is a catastrophe. Replacing one person won't do anything.
> ...



heck man. 





you can't instantly say that North Koreans should be dead bc they have been brainwashed and brainwashing isn't permanent. in case u haven't watched Igor

A monarchy is extremely hard to replace. Nobody's done it. They aren't communist, they're under a family monarchy but the latest one's a bit of a nutjob. If his kids (if he even has kids???) are raised like the rest of North Korea and then their kids are too, once they get into power they will hold the same belief. 

North Korea could press the red button and kill all of us tomorrow. As far as I'm aware - or anybody is aware - there isn't much we can do to stop that from happening. *That is how the world is going to end*.


----------



## Haskell (Feb 21, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> First off I think this is a very bleak view of the people there and hope you reconsider if you really think the people there are better off dead.
> 
> We don't know enough about them to know that they're "too brainwashed".  I don't think anyone can be too brainwashed to save.  And really, I think a lot of those who are "brainwashed" are only acting in a way that allows them to survive in the environment they are given.
> 
> ...



N. Korea would be better off dead.


----------



## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> Just because a lot of people say something is true doesn't mean it is.  *Mass opinion said the Earth is flat many years ago and they were proven wrong.*


wait, the earth ISN'T flat ????????? whoa, mind. BLOWN.

Human instinct, when we don't know enough ourselves, is to simply follow the crowd and believe what they tell you. It takes experience to learn that just because a lot of people say something does not mean it is right.


----------



## Haskell (Feb 21, 2017)

forestyne said:


> wait, the earth ISN'T flat ????????? whoa, mind. BLOWN.
> 
> Human instinct, when we don't know enough ourselves, is to simply follow the crowd and believe what they tell you. It takes experience to learn that *just because a lot of people say something does not mean it is right*.



*cough* global warming *cough*

N. Korea is an unstable threat to the world.


----------



## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> *cough* global warming *cough*
> 
> N. Korea is an unstable threat to the world.



But there's evidence towards global warming, unlike your opinions that North Korea is better off dead and that they are communist.


----------



## Haskell (Feb 21, 2017)

forestyne said:


> But there's evidence towards global warming, unlike your opinions that North Korea is better off dead and that they are communist.



I have stated that my opinion on N. Korea is as unsubstantiated and convoluted as other opinions.

North Korea is better off dead. I've stated reasoning.

There's evidence against global warming.


----------



## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

Even NASA says so


----------



## f11 (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Yea. The Prime Minister of Canada is a bit selfish, moronic, and reckless. Bad leader.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...


since when does mass opinion from an animal crossing forum poll hold any water as a smart opinion. ALSO where are your sources and research you keep referencing?


----------



## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> I have stated that my opinion on N. Korea is as unsubstantiated and convoluted as other opinions.
> 
> North Korea is better off dead. I've stated reasoning.
> 
> There's evidence against global warming.



Where's that evidence then? pls show thanks


----------



## f11 (Feb 21, 2017)

BRUHH this dude doesn't believe in global warming...I didn't know I was talking to a rock..

Also is it more of a facist dictatorship or a monarchy?


----------



## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> *Yea. The Prime Minister of Canada is a bit selfish, moronic, and reckless. Bad leader.*



TAKE THAT BACK, WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE


----------



## Haskell (Feb 21, 2017)

forestyne said:


> TAKE THAT BACK, WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE



His policies. He's a teen idol. Not a Prime Minister.


----------



## Stepheroo (Feb 21, 2017)

Honestly not even sure if maybe you are just trolling at this point or not, Raskell.
I'm like genuinely confused. Like, every response you give I'm like "oh this silly guy and his jokes."

But I'm starting to think less and less that this was a political joke thread and that is alarming.


----------



## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

f11 said:


> BRUHH this dude doesn't believe in global warming...I didn't know I was talking to a rock..
> 
> Also is it more of a facist dictatorship or a monarchy?



I'd say monarchy, since I know the definition of it. They seem to be a family-run grocery store kind of thing. There's no elections, once Kim Jong-Un's father died, he went into power. That's how a monarchy works.


----------



## Haskell (Feb 21, 2017)

forestyne said:


> Where's that evidence then? pls show thanks



Google is a friend. It's not my job to be the representation of the other side of the controversy.

Look at both sides.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Stepheroo said:


> Honestly not even sure if maybe you are just trolling at this point or not, Raskell.
> I'm like genuinely confused. Like, every response you give I'm like "oh this silly guy and his jokes."
> 
> But I'm starting to think less and less that this was a political joke thread and that is alarming.



I'm giving my opinions. I'm not forming them properly. I'm just stating them.


----------



## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> His policies. He's a teen idol. Not a Prime Minister.



Because he's letting in the refugees that Donald Trump isn't? Or that he was invited to a Buzzfeed video when Donald Trump wasn't? I see nothing wrong with his policies, he's not doing a bad job. They're stable and _Canadians are actually much nicer than every other American I've met._


----------



## Stepheroo (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Google is a friend. It's not my job to be the representation of the other side of the controversy.
> 
> Look at both sides.



But you are the other side right now in this thread. One does not give a credible speech and say "Google this later after my speech to see where I got my stuff from" but instead cite sources AS THEY TELL THEIR SIDE. Like, that's how debating/arguments with any substance are supposed to work. ; v;

Unless you don't actually have sources, and like has been stated before, these are your opinions. You go back and forth a lot on whether or not your comments are (misinformed) opinions or (alternative) facts.


Like, idk how you can defend your side TBH because I don't agree with it, but you're not giving your own arguments justice. Try stating your side more clearly, please.


----------



## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

IGNORE THIS DOUBLE POSTWELP


----------



## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Google is a friend. It's not my job to be the representation of the other side of the controversy.
> 
> Look at both sides.
> 
> ...



Well don't bring raw fish to a debate about cooked ones. Bring evidence next time, instead of opinions. The way I see it, you're just mass-posting and wasting other people's time with horrendous opinions. Explain yourself better please.

- - - Post Merge - - -

How'd f11 get banned but Raskell didn't tho


----------



## LambdaDelta (Feb 21, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> I think a lot of those who are "brainwashed" are only acting in a way that allows them to survive in the environment they are given.



highlighting this, because it is honestly one of the (very few) actually good points brought up here

when going against the regime's orders can get you sentenced to death or any other level of inhumane punishment, most people will naturally go along with it. not due to agreeing with, but simply as a means of survival

of course this isn't to say that everybody is like this, as there are certainly some that do truly believe in what they say and do. but it's not as simply black and white as many make it out to be



also re: n. korea being a super dangerous threat: their government is certainly unhinged and dangerous for its immediate area, but as a global threat I'd honestly be more afraid of governments of actual major nations with real power. there's nothing saying they can't become more dangerous in this manner, but I feel if they could've done something on a globally catastrophic scale, they would've done so already ages ago. so the fact that they haven't is a pretty clear indicator that they simply currently lack the ability to, no matter how much they try to act otherwise. so dangerous enough to keep serious tabs on, but not so much so to go into any sort of fear panic mode


----------



## Haskell (Feb 21, 2017)

Stepheroo said:


> But you are the other side right now in this thread. One does not give a credible speech and say "Google this later after my speech to see where I got my stuff from" but instead cite sources AS THEY TELL THEIR SIDE. Like, that's how debating/arguments with any substance are supposed to work. ; v;
> 
> Unless you don't actually have sources, and like has been stated before, these are your opinions. You go back and forth a lot on whether or not your comments are (misinformed) opinions or (alternative) facts.
> 
> ...




The evidence that is used to back up global warming is also used to dehoax it.
Polar bears are thriving. Studies have shown this. Last time I checked, polar bears live in cold climates.
Although the Artic is increasing .39 degrees Celsius, the Antarctic is cooling by .12 degrees Celsius.
You can't deny the percentage of scientists that disbelieve global warming.
Funny how "global warming" became an prominent "issue" in the 2001 election that Al Gore ran in.
Sea ice, overall, in the winter has been increasing since 1979.
The masses are wrong. Just look at people thinking the Earth was flat. <--- Yes. I just did that. 
The temperature is in fluctuations from the past 3,000 years.
CO2 doesn't necessarily cause the increase of temperature. 
Human-produced CO2 doesn't affect the environment as much as people think. It is re-absorbed by oceans, forests, et cetera. This negates the core pro-reasoning of "climate change".
Sea levels have been steadily rising over the years.
Glaciers have been compacting and decomposing over years due to natural causes.
Increased natural disasters can't be tied to human activity.

Now let's be done with talking about global warming. I apologize for bringing it up. As it's off-topic. If you'd like to continue, I'd love to on another thread.



I think we can all agree that N. Korea is isolated from the world too much for us to give proper, informed opinions? Yes?


----------



## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> The evidence that is used to back up global warming is also used to dehoax it.
> Polar bears are thriving. Studies have shown this. Last time I checked, polar bears live in cold climates.
> Although the Artic is increasing .39 degrees Celsius, the Antarctic is cooling by .12 degrees Celsius.
> You can't deny the percentage of scientists that disbelieve global warming.
> ...



But where are the sources.. If you had just done this in an exam, you would have been given an instant fail for plagiarism and not citing sources.

If you had said all of this like 20 minutes ago, we could've had a legitimate debate.. .

There's only one legitimate source here.


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## LambdaDelta (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> The masses are wrong. Just look at people thinking the Earth was flat. <--- Yes. I just did that.



things based on a limited understanding of the world aren't the same as things based on actual scientific evidence done through years of extensive research

your "haha, take that" has no ground to stand on, since the two scenarios are largely incomparable


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## Stepheroo (Feb 21, 2017)

I wasn't referencing global warming with my post lmao bc the topic of Global Warming isn't even a topic for debate in my mind.
I was referring to your supposed "facts" about North Korea and you telling other to go and Google stuff instead when that's this whole thread's topic. Not to mention people have been asking for your sources and your refuse to give them. Your only response is "GoogleItGoogleItGoogleItkilltheNorthKoreansGoogleItGoogleIt."

That's what I meant. And also, as was just stated, you should provide links and citations as to where you got each thing as well or else it can come off as illegitimate or just a complete opinion.

Not even trying to have, just saying that if you're going to make a thread like this then have prior knowledge on the topic and be able to debate seriously with others when they challenge your stance or else it's basically a throwaway imo and just for the sake of having a poll, which is meaningless.


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## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

There's no reason to continue this thread anymore, neither the discussion about global warming. Since you were the one who started it.

Agreed. There is too little known about North Korea, but what we _do_ know is that it is not communist.


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## Haskell (Feb 21, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> things based on a limited understanding of the world aren't the same as things based on actual scientific evidence done through years of extensive research
> 
> your "haha, take that" has no ground to stand on, since the two scenarios are largely incomparable



I can respect that.


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## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> The evidence that is used to back up global warming is also used to dehoax it.
> You can't deny the percentage of scientists that disbelieve global warming.





But where's the evidence that I can't deny? lolol


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## Haskell (Feb 21, 2017)

forestyne said:


> There's no reason to continue this thread anymore, neither the discussion about global warming. Since you were the one who started it.
> 
> Agreed.* There is too little known about North Korea, but what we do know is that it is not communist*.



You have been telling people that they cannot believe that N. Korea is communist because of insufficient evidence of the country. By you saying N. Korea is communist is hypocrisy. Either we know about N. Korea or we don't. In which, we don't.

Yes. I have said that N. Korea is communist but I have since then changed my ignorant position because of the insufficient evidence.


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## forestyne (Feb 21, 2017)

toodles folks, there's mystic messenger chatrooms i have to attend to xoxo


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## Jeremy (Feb 21, 2017)

Hello all.  We now have to close this thread due to aggressive arguing and offensive comments.  Remember that there is always a way to disagree with someone in a respectful manner without being offensive.  Please be sure to follow our rules about respecting others when you post here.  Thank you.


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## Oblivia (Feb 21, 2017)

I just wanted to add that a lot of these unnecessary arguments could be avoided altogether if the topic(s) were more thoroughly researched prior to engaging in a discussion about them.  Trying to debate something you don't fully understand normally doesn't pan out well.

This isn't directed at anyone in specific, but some of the posts I've seen here are a bit on the ridiculous side and it's not hard to see why people became frustrated.


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