# Okay, maybe there is still hope for Project Needlemouse...



## Tyeforce (Jan 19, 2010)

SEGA official blog said:
			
		

> "Now the vast majority of old school fans are awesome, absoluetly [sic] S-Rank superstars


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## Rawburt (Jan 19, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

> SEGA official blog said:
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> > "Now the vast majority of old school fans are awesome, absoluetly [sic] S-Rank superstars


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## «Jack» (Jan 19, 2010)

And?
Anything to do with the game whatsoever?


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## Tyeforce (Jan 19, 2010)

Rawburt said:
			
		

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## Gnome (Jan 19, 2010)

ew new sonic.


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## Trent the Paladin (Jan 19, 2010)

If there is one new horrible character, one horrible useless hedgehog, I will be disappointed. Their biggest mistake was Silver.


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## Tyeforce (Jan 19, 2010)

Tom said:
			
		

> If there is one new horrible character, one horrible useless hedgehog, I will be disappointed. Their biggest mistake was Silver.


I can agree with you there.


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## Nic (Jan 19, 2010)

What happened to Shadow?  They dropped him so much now he is not even talked about.  He was the best of the best Hedgehogs.  After the release of the gamecube and the other console ones then he vanished in midair.  Now I might not know if this is 100% because I don't usually play the sonic games but I'm pretty sure on my gut that is the last time we saw him.


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## -Aaron (Jan 19, 2010)

Ew. New Sonic. 
No sale for me.


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## iVocaloid (Jan 19, 2010)

I like it old school


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## Kanye Omari West (Jan 19, 2010)

Mr_Hobo said:
			
		

> What happened to Shadow?  They dropped him so much now he is not even talked about.  He was the best of the best Hedgehogs.  After the release of the gamecube and the other console ones then he vanished in midair.  Now I might not know if this is 100% because I don't usually play the sonic games but I'm pretty sure on my gut that is the last time we saw him.


Shadow the Hedgehog sucked. The shame of the game was enough to get rid of him fuly.

Tom: No thoughts on Blaze?

And it's funny, I love both 3D and 2D Sonics, so I may l get this :3


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## Tyeforce (Jan 19, 2010)

xela. said:
			
		

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I liked Shadow the Hedgehog... ._.


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## Kanye Omari West (Jan 19, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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All you would do is shoot ._.

I'd rather play an FPS if I need to shoot something


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## Megamannt125 (Jan 19, 2010)

Did SEGA actually say pingas?


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## Tyeforce (Jan 19, 2010)

xela. said:
			
		

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No, not at all. In fact, guns were almost entirely optional. The game was kinda like Sonic Adventure 2 mixed with Sonic Heroes, with guns and vehicles thrown in. I didn't particularly like the guns (or Shadow's constant swearing), but I loves the rest of the game.


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## Tyeforce (Jan 19, 2010)

Megamannt125 said:
			
		

> Did SEGA actually say pingas?


They did on their official blog, apparently... XD


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## Kanye Omari West (Jan 19, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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Sonic Heroes was bad and you know it. And no it wasn't like SA2! SA2 haf obstacles, power-ups, a better replay value, Chao Garden, and more!


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## Tyeforce (Jan 19, 2010)

xela. said:
			
		

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I said like a mixture of the two. Not including all elements of both. And I really enjoyed Sonic Heroes. It's one of my favorite Sonic games. I loved the gameplay. Anyway, Shadow the Hedgehog reminds me of both Adventure 2 and Heroes because it has a _ton_ of references to SA2, and it uses the same graphics as Sonic Heroes.


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## Ciaran (Jan 20, 2010)

Now, see it's possible to make a game that appels to eveyone and still make it a great game (were at am animal crossing forum aren't we?)

But sega tried to add new appeal to their games sand failed miserably, all the new characters, the voice acting, the werehogs... They were just terrible.

But my little sister was about 8 when mega collection+ came out and she was addicted to to sonic 1-4 for MONTHS. She really loves sonic, when she tried to play unleashed, with that annoying fly thing and the beat 'em ups she got bored after minutes.


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## Tyeforce (Jan 20, 2010)

Ciaran said:
			
		

> But sega tried to add new appeal to their games sand failed miserably, all the new characters, the voice acting, the werehogs... They were just terrible.


Opinion. >_> A lot of people, including me, love the newer Sonic games.


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## Mr. L (Jan 20, 2010)

new sonic game.fail.goodbye.


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## Ciaran (Jan 20, 2010)

If sega really want to revive the franchise they need to market it to people who loved the early games, they've taken the first steps with that character list, but there's still plenty of room to mess up.

It needs to be on Xbox and Playstation only, preferably as a


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## SamXX (Jan 20, 2010)

Ciaran said:
			
		

> It needs to be on Xbox and Playstation only, preferably as a


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## Yokie (Jan 20, 2010)

Never liked Sonic anyways.


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## MrCrazyDavis (Jan 20, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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## Entei Slider (Jan 20, 2010)

Ok
1.Shadow was awesome
2.Sega *censored.3.0*ED up his image with Shadow the Hedgehog game (good going >.>)
3.Sonic heroes SUCKED. Simple
4. Werehogs and there voice acting sucked
5.The old school sonic as Ciaran said Mega Collection was great.
6.I wanted to end on an even number :3
And yah know, The more I think about it. The more a remake grows on me. Well not a remake of werehogs -_-''''' But a classic remake thats focused like he said on speed.


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## Conor (Jan 20, 2010)

fftopic: 

I actually thought Sonic Heroes was a really good game, one of the best in the series.


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## Thunder (Jan 20, 2010)

Hope? HOPE? <big>HOPE?!</big>

Sounds like a possible downfall.


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## Ciaran (Jan 20, 2010)

SAMwich said:
			
		

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## Bulerias (Jan 21, 2010)

What the hell is "new Sonic appeal"?  Glitchy, broken gameplay mechanics?


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## Tyeforce (Jan 21, 2010)

Bulerias said:
			
		

> What the hell is "new Sonic appeal"?  Glitchy, broken gameplay mechanics?


The only new Sonic games that are really "glitchy" are Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, and Sonic the Hedgehog '06, and the glitches were just plain fun in the Adventure games. The gameplay is in no way "broken". >_> The games are _fun_. You know, the whole reason why games were made in the first place? F-U-N?


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## Bulerias (Jan 21, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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So, most of the 3D ones have glitches, according to what you said... also...



> glitches...plain fun



What?  Glitches are the result of poor development.  How are they fun?  Don't get me wrong, I understand that games are about fun, but damn, none of the 3D ones have aged well.  I used to have fun with Adventure 2 Battle waaay back in the day, but it just doesn't hold up.  The gameplay elements are dated and sometimes downright moronic -- who wants to hunt emeralds with Knuckles at 1 mile / hour? -- and the Sonic stages are poorly designed.  I guess the Tails/Eggman courses were fun, but only barely... the only redeeming part of Adventure 2 Battle was the Chao Garden.  And again, it's very dated and underdeveloped when you think about it.

My main gripe with the 3D games is poor level design and unnecessary filler.  The hub worlds are pointless, the voice acting is terrible, and considering the poor in-game graphics engine, all the cutscenes look awful.  That, and the _music_... all the rock music is atrocious!  Thank God for Sonic Unleashed, they definitely nailed the music in that one... speaking of Unleashed, it seems to be pretty decent from what I've played of it so far... definitely a nice throw-back to the old games.


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## Bulerias (Jan 21, 2010)

I can go on a huge rant with just the music.  Listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqCKEP1Jx2k

This is harmonically, melodically, and rhythmically interesting.  They captured the French style quite nicely, and the way the tune changes keys and textures is refreshing.  In contrast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTCVtDV6Yzc

...Yeah.  There _were_ some decent tunes in the Adventure games, like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICnW8aEAX4w

But I have a feeling they will not age well.  They're showing their age already... but Unleashed's music is definitely a step in the right direction.

Edit -- Random fact about the Unleashed tune: the part where the rhythm changes and they modulate the keys is in the flamenco 12 beat rhythm.   Combination of 6/8 and 3/4!


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## Tyeforce (Jan 21, 2010)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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There are eight main series home console 3D Sonic games, so I don't know where you're getting "most" from.


And glitches _were_ fun in the Adventure games. They weren't the kind of glitches that get in the way of gameplay, the were they kind of glitches that you try for hours to pull off for fun, like the black hole glitch in Super Smash Bros. Melee, or the giant Jigglypuff glitch in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. And I don't find the gameplay elements "moronic" at all. Emerald hunting was one of the most fun parts of the Adventure games, in my opinion. And it hasn't dated poorly at all. I can pop in Sonic Adventure 2: Battle and still have as much fun with it as I had when I first played it. Sure, the graphics may not be up to the standards of today, but that doesn't impact the fun you can have with it at all.

The levels aren't designed poorly, nor are they full of filler... I _love_ the levels of 3D Sonic games, much more so than 2D ones. There's more depth and fun to them. The voices _aren't_ terrible, they're just fine. I love most of the 4Kids voices. There are a few that are a bit off, but it doesn't ruin the game or anything. The cutscenes look fine, especially the CG ones. Also, newsflash for you, graphics aren't everything. And the music... The music is my absolute _favorite_ part of Sonic games. I _love_ Crush 40. Just because it's not _your_ kind of music doesn't mean it's bad. It is in no way "atrocious". >_>


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## Bulerias (Jan 21, 2010)

I'm not going to reply to the rest of your post because you said you "love most of the 4Kids voices" -- automatic fail in my book -- but I do have to call you out on the music.  There's very little harmonic and rhythmic interest.  The lyrics are asinine and don't make sense out of the game's context.  The only redeeming quality about most of the soundtrack is melody... and again... the melodies are catchy, relying on simple "hooks".  Which is a sign of weak song-writing.  I dunno.  There's just not much musical depth/substance, you know what I mean?  Especially compared to the Unleashed soundtrack...

And don't get me wrong, I have nothing against rock music... I love stuff like King Crimson, The Beatles, etc... but I don't see what's so great about musically uninteresting noise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xld2JtbMwHg

I mean, maybe this is nice for head-banging...


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## Ciaran (Jan 21, 2010)

Once again, you're all arguing with a brick wall.

Tye actually believes everything he says, and you're all wasting your energy trying to convince him otherwise.


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## Roxas (Jan 21, 2010)

Ciaran said:
			
		

> Once again, you're all arguing with a brick wall.
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> Tye actually believes everything he says, and you're all wasting your energy trying to convince him otherwise.


You've said this for like, the fifteenth time, we get it. :l


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## Tyeforce (Jan 21, 2010)

Bulerias said:
			
		

> I'm not going to reply to the rest of your post because you said you "love most of the 4Kids voices" -- automatic fail in my book -- but I do have to call you out on the music.  There's very little harmonic and rhythmic interest.  The lyrics are asinine and don't make sense out of the game's context.  The only redeeming quality about most of the soundtrack is melody... and again... the melodies are catchy, relying on simple "hooks".  Which is a sign of weak song-writing.  I dunno.  There's just not much musical depth/substance, you know what I mean?  Especially compared to the Unleashed soundtrack...
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> And don't get me wrong, I have nothing against rock music... I love stuff like King Crimson, The Beatles, etc... but I don't see what's so great about musically uninteresting noise.


Okay, I know that you're a musician yourself and you know a lot about music, but there's something you're forgetting... People like music because _they like it_, not because it's better in some technical way. See, there's this thing called _taste_. People have different tastes and opinions when it comes to music. You can't say that someone's opinion is wrong. Crush 40 is my favorite band. Why? Because I like their music. It's just _my_ type of music. It may not be _your_ type, but that doesn't make it bad. It's catchy, upbeat, and fun to listen to. What's so bad about that? Who cares if it has extensive depth or whatever? That doesn't matter. All that matters is if you like it or not. And I do like the music Unleashed, especially the main theme (Endless Possibility). I love the full orchestra music. I don't put it any higher than Crush 40's music, though. There are things about each that I like.

And as for the voices, they're _not_ that bad. I know when people think of 4Kids they automatically think "fail", and I'll agree with you that most of their work is utter crap to me, too, but their voice acting in the games isn't that bad. It's much better than their work on Sonic X.


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## Bulerias (Jan 21, 2010)

OK.  I understand that taste is subjective.  But taste needs to be based on something, not just a random "I like this" or "I hate that".  I'm really sorry if I'm coming off as a snob, but I can't listen to anything that doesn't have musical interest.  I mean, a catchy tune is nice for occasional listening...but...that's about it.  Notice how there are tons of people who say "I _used_ to like *insert band/artist here*, but I don't now".  And why is that?

Because the music has no lasting value.  It seems good at a certain point in time but it's never going to stand up to anything else in the long run.  I'm not saying everybody should compare their music with Beethoven's 9th and trash their compositions if they're not up there with Ludvig Van, but there should be at least some interesting harmonies, rhythms, and melodies... I dunno.


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## Thunder (Jan 21, 2010)

Roxas said:
			
		

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If you got it, you'd probably stop arguing :S


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## Silverstorms (Jan 21, 2010)

_Why? Because I like their music. It's just my type of music. It may not be your type, but that doesn't make it bad._

Doesn't make it good either, which is what you are implying.


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## Tyeforce (Jan 21, 2010)

Bulerias said:
			
		

> OK.  I understand that taste is subjective.  But taste needs to be based on something, not just a random "I like this" or "I hate that".  I'm really sorry if I'm coming off as a snob, but I can't listen to anything that doesn't have musical interest.  I mean, a catchy tune is nice for occasional listening...but...that's about it.  Notice how there are tons of people who say "I _used_ to like *insert band/artist here*, but I don't now".  And why is that?
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> Because the music has no lasting value.  It seems good at a certain point in time but it's never going to stand up to anything else.  I'm not saying everybody should compare their music with Beethoven's 9th and trash their compositions if they're not up there with Ludvig Van, but there should be at least some interesting harmonies, rhythms, and melodies... I dunno.


Bul, people like different things. For me, Crush 40 will never get old. They're one of the few bands that I actually like. You just think differently because you know so much about music and it's such an important thing to you. But a song doesn't have to be a masterpiece to be loved by people. Even the simplest song can be enjoyable. It all depends on your own tastes. Yours are obviously very different from mine. From what I've heard, your music doesn't really appeal to me at all. That's not to say it's bad, because it certainly isn't. It's just not my taste. You see?


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## Megamannt125 (Jan 21, 2010)

SA2 has the best soundtrack imo, all the sonic stages have amazing music. (green forest and metal harbor come to mind)


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## Tyeforce (Jan 21, 2010)

Megamannt125 said:
			
		

> SA2 has the best soundtrack imo, all the sonic stages have amazing music. (green forest and metal harbor come to mind)


YESSSSS!!! =D


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## Entei Slider (Jan 21, 2010)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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When I saw that I knew that you know what your talking about  .


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## Entei Slider (Jan 21, 2010)

Megamannt125 said:
			
		

> SA2 has the best soundtrack imo, all the sonic stages have amazing music. (green forest and metal harbor come to mind)


T_T No City Escape?!!?!?!?!?!
That in my eye....er.....ears. Is the best sonic song yet.
And sorry about the double post....


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## Bulerias (Jan 21, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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Yeah.  There are plenty of people who don't dig my music and I don't take offense... _because taste is subjective_.  But musical quality really isn't.  It's sort of a point of no return... once you start analyzing, you analyze even the simplest stuff... hell, there is PLENTY of beautiful, simple music.  It's not about simplicity.  I love minimalism, for example...

But there's a difference between meaningful minimalism and jamming on a C chord for a 4 minute tune.


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## Thunder (Jan 21, 2010)

Megamannt125 said:
			
		

> SA2 has the best soundtrack imo, all the sonic stages have amazing music. (green forest and metal harbor come to mind)


I liked Sonic The Hedghog 2, and 3's soundtrack :3


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## Ciaran (Jan 21, 2010)

lol@arguing with bul about music, I'd say that he may know a wee bit more than you do Tye.


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## Tyeforce (Jan 21, 2010)

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The funny thing is, if it weren't for the Chao, I wouldn't have ever gotten into Sonic. My friend asked me if I wanted to buy the game from him, and he thought I'd like it since he knew I loved Pok


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## -Aaron (Jan 21, 2010)

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## Entei Slider (Jan 21, 2010)

What did I do? Just stating my opinion about the joy of chao.


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## Tyeforce (Jan 21, 2010)

Ciaran said:
			
		

> lol@arguing with bul about music, I'd say that he may know a wee bit more than you do Tye.


I know he knows much more about music than I do, but he doesn't get that people can music that may not be as in depth as some. It doesn't matter which song is "better" than the other, as long as _you like it_.


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## Micah (Jan 21, 2010)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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Funny you should say that. I was thinking of majoring in something musical related, but I didn't want to overanalyze my music and possibly lose interest in it.


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## Ciaran (Jan 21, 2010)

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I'm going to take my own advice an not argue with you, there is honestly absolutely no point whatsoever, considering everything that anyone ever says to you just bounces straight off your head.


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## -Aaron (Jan 21, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/v/3rax27_ZIVM


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## Ciaran (Jan 21, 2010)

Comatose said:
			
		

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From what I've seen, studying music helps your enjoyment, and there's a certain kick of listening to your favourote bnads and recognizing the techniques they use.


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## Megamannt125 (Jan 21, 2010)

Bul, honestly, I don't care about lyrics or technical stuff as long as it sounds good, for example Rhapsody of fire is my favorite band, and their lyrics are pretty random. yet they make my ears orgasm.


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## Tyeforce (Jan 21, 2010)

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No it doesn't. I listen to everyone. But I'm not going to let somebody change my own opinions. That's not to say that I'm closed minded, I just have my own opinions and beliefs. But people have gotten me to change before, because if it wasn't for an article that DF posted, I probably would still think that I'm straight.


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## Entei Slider (Jan 21, 2010)

Oxygen Graffiti said:
			
		

> http://www.youtube.com/v/3rax27_ZIVM


I lol'd


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## Ciaran (Jan 21, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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Well that was just touching, but if you're not willing to view a matter from the eyes if oters an see where they're coming from and accept that you may be wrong, well that is closed mindedness.

And there's no point in trying to change that, becaus at the end of the day, it's your loss.


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## Megamannt125 (Jan 21, 2010)

Ciaran said:
			
		

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But then if you don't look at it from Tye's perspective you're a hypocrit.


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## Tyeforce (Jan 21, 2010)

Ciaran said:
			
		

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I _do_, though. But some things there's just no reason to change. So, someone says that 2D Sonic is better and that I'm stupid for liking 3D Sonic. What reason does that give me to change what I play? I get entertainment and fun from 3D Sonic games, something that I don't get from 2D ones. Trying to get me to change the games I play is pointless, because I'm not going to sacrifice fun just to satisfy someone else's opinion.


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## Ciaran (Jan 21, 2010)

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I have been this whole time, and it impossible to agree with him that 'glitches are fun' or that everything in sonic 2 is great and there is no filler at all, because most of that isn't opinion, it's fact.


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## Tyeforce (Jan 21, 2010)

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How you play and enjoy a game isn't fact. >_>


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## Rawburt (Jan 21, 2010)

Haha wow, this topic too funny.


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## Bacon Boy (Jan 21, 2010)

Daniel does have a point when he says that the old sonic tunes get ragged after a while. I only use them for short film background filler music. I never listen to them. Good music is the kind that never gets old. And Tye, if you like Crush 40's type of music, then why don't you listen to other music than game music or Crush 40. For instance, I got Crush 40's CD. It was okay, for a month, now I skip most of the songs when it comes to shuffle. Unleashed's music was truly exceptional though. The night stages were jazzy (even though I hated them because of the werehog idea) and the day stages were all upbeat and diverse. The main tune by Bowling for Soup (guys who did This Is Gonna Be Great Day) was very good. My favorite Sonic song of all time. 

What I love about music, is the diversity. The ones that make you feel like you've accomplished something, the music that makes you cry, makes you feel good, makes you laugh, etc. Crush 40 really doesn't stir any emotions other then "I reaaaalllllyyy want to change the track now." The only three songs I ever truly liked that they did were Live and Learn, Open Your Heart, and Sonic's Theme In Adventure & Adventure 2. 

Also, I'm not saying it's bad to listen to game music, hell, I listen to OCREMIX a lot and the Z.R.E.O Project. But they're diverse and they actually have a beat to them. And I also listen to other types of music too. Confining yourself to one type of music is closed minded, which, by the way, is something you "preach" against. I think the one of the main reasons you like Crush 40 is because they do Sonic songs. If it were anyone else, you'd like them a lot too.


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## Tyeforce (Jan 21, 2010)

Bacon Boy said:
			
		

> Daniel does have a point when he says that the old sonic tunes get ragged after a while. I only use them for short film background filler music. I never listen to them. Good music is the kind that never gets old. And Tye, if you like Crush 40's type of music, then why don't you listen to other music than game music or Crush 40. For instance, I got Crush 40's CD. It was okay, for a month, now I skip most of the songs when it comes to shuffle. Unleashed's music was truly exceptional though. The night stages were jazzy (even though I hated them because of the werehog idea) and the day stages were all upbeat and diverse. The main tune by Bowling for Soup (guys who did This Is Gonna Be Great Day) was very good. My favorite Sonic song of all time.
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> What I love about music, is the diversity. The ones that make you feel like you've accomplished something, the music that makes you cry, makes you feel good, makes you laugh, etc. Crush 40 really doesn't stir any emotions other then "I reaaaalllllyyy want to change the track now." The only three songs I ever truly liked that they did were Live and Learn, Open Your Heart, and Sonic's Theme In Adventure & Adventure 2.
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> Also, I'm not saying it's bad to listen to game music, hell, I listen to OCREMIX a lot and the Z.R.E.O Project. But they're diverse and they actually have a beat to them. And I also listen to other types of music too. Confining yourself to one type of music is closed minded, which, by the way, is something you "preach" against. I think the one of the main reasons you like Crush 40 is because they do Sonic songs. If it were anyone else, you'd like them a lot too.


I never said I _only_ liked Crush 40, did I? >_> I currently have 6,133 songs in my iTunes library. I don't think Crush 40 has made that many songs, do you? Although I wouldn't mind 7.1 days worth of Crush 40 music. XD But, yeah, I listen to much more than just Crush 40. I am diverse when it comes to music. But I still have my own unique tastes.


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