# What do you think of bug/glitch abusing for a game speedrun?



## Nerd House (Apr 22, 2014)

Case in point:



Spoiler








*He has another video with a record that's 16 seconds shorter, btw >.>*



A friend at work told me about this last night. "Did you see the guy who beat Zelda: OoT in 20 minutes?" I'm like "No...? How's that even possible?". "He's really good, and by running backwards." "Still shouldn't be possible in 20 minutes..."

Well, I looked it up and this video is what I found. I'm not impressed.

This guy beat Zelda: Ocarina of Time in less than 20 minutes by abusing a lot of glitches. And what gets me is that all the comments are like "WOW!!! IM IMPRESSED!!!!!"


What do you guys think? Personally, I'd be way more impressed if he speedrun it normally and maybe did the Water Temple in less than 10 minutes or something.


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## Caius (Apr 22, 2014)

Glitches don't impress me much.


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## Alienfish (Apr 22, 2014)

Quite annoying in terms of Mario Kart (cept the N64 battles they are fun) otherwise whatever.


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## Nerd House (Apr 22, 2014)

Zr388 said:


> Glitches don't impress me much.



I'm honored by your response xD

I agree. I was all like "Wow impressive" when I was told about it, but when I found out it was all done via glitches, I'm like "Meh...". Not impressive in the slightest. I knew it was too good to be true.

But to explain a couple of things in the video (im sure people are like "How though?"):

*How did he do the warp?*
When he initiates the warp after killing Gohma, he cancels it just before it goes through. When he walks through the door to leave Gohma's room, the game gets confused as it is still trying to warp, so it adds the two values of the warp location and the location on the other side of the door. This value is the same number as Ganon's castle.﻿

*Why is he playing the Chinese version?*
In Chinese, each letter has more meaning then a word in English would have, so each sentence would be shorter in that language. Meaning, way less text to scroll through.


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## Hyoshido (Apr 22, 2014)

I saw someone able to skip a whole chapter on Paper Mario 2 with a bug with Ms. Mowz.

I gotta say, that was quite impressive.


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## Sataric (Apr 22, 2014)

I think that, generally speaking, speed running a game can be lots of fun and very challenging - Competing both against your own personal best time, as well as the "world records" that you can often find posted online, and on YouTube. However, as soon as you abuse any kind of glitch - Even if executing said glitch takes some kind of "skill" - It just doesn't feel right to me. I do not approve of cheating in any way, and I feel like abusing bugs and glitches fall under the cheating category.

Furthermore, when it comes to speed runs, I strongly prefer when the speed runs include ALL MAJOR CONTENT - Some games might have optional bosses and levels that you aren't required to beat in order to complete the game, but I feel like if you're going to do it, you might as well "do it right" and complete all of that as well. That makes the achievement much more impressive, in my personal opinion.


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## Poppyann (Apr 22, 2014)

Zr388 said:


> Glitches don't impress me much.



Pretty much


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## Nerd House (Apr 22, 2014)

Sataric said:


> I think that, generally speaking, speed running a game can be lots of fun and very challenging - Competing both against your own personal best time, as well as the "world records" that you can often find posted online, and on YouTube. However, as soon as you abuse any kind of glitch - Even if executing said glitch takes some kind of "skill" - It just doesn't feel right to me. I do not approve of cheating in any way, and I feel like abusing bugs and glitches fall under the cheating category.
> 
> Furthermore, when it comes to speed runs, I strongly prefer when the speed runs include ALL MAJOR CONTENT - Some games might have optional bosses and levels that you aren't required to beat in order to complete the game, but I feel like if you're going to do it, you might as well "do it right" and complete all of that as well. That makes the achievement much more impressive, in my personal opinion.



This is exactly what I wanted to say, but I'm not so eloquent xD Thank you for posting this!


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## Stalfos (Apr 22, 2014)

It depends. There are, for instance, some glitches in Super Metroid that are viewed as "legal" when it comes to speedrunning. Is it skillfully exploiting game physics or cheating? I'm not sure. But the warp glitch in Ocarina of Time is definitely cheating.


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## Piroshi (Apr 22, 2014)

I think they're fun to watch. I like seeing what people can do to break the game. I don't really see it as cheating if you're playing by yourself. It's not putting anyone else at a disadvantage or ruining the experience for them. But when people do that kind of stuff playing in multiplayer games it is cheating and ruins the fun for everyone, unless all parties have agreed that it's an okay thing to do.


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## Lurrdoc (Apr 22, 2014)

It's fun to watch and most of the times the speed runs are done for personal satisfaction by players. I've even seen speed run charity streams where the funds go to a special cause. I like it!


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## chillv (Apr 22, 2014)

Doesn't really matter to me, I do personally feel that if someone is clever enough to glitch a game to beat it in less than 20 minutes, that is impressive to me at least.


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## Attribule (Apr 24, 2014)

Games typically have "glitchless" or "glitch" categories for this reason.

Glitch runs are never impressive as once people figure out the glitches then all you'll ever see are those exact same glitches and it comes down to things like "who made the input faster than the other guy". I'd say they're the more cookie-cutter runs to watch and typically not very entertaining. The only exceptions are runs made for comedic purposes, using the glitches as part of the joke.

It gets especially bad for games like OoT and Mario 64 because it's gotten to the point where any time somebody does a run of them at speedrunning events I'm just like, "Yeah... I've seen this before".


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## ACNiko (Apr 24, 2014)

I LOVE speedrunning! I watch speedruns on Twitch daily, and I'm very impressed that people can complete different games by performing glitches and stuff. It has become like a sport, only that there's no rivalry involved. The runners are often very friendly and support each other.


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## Alice (Apr 24, 2014)

I am impressed. These bugs take a lot of time, practice and patience to pull off in a run. If you'd watch speed-runners do this live, you'd see how much skill some of these can take. There are speed-run categories for a reason, and if you don't like any% glitch runs, then don't watch them.


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## toxapex (Apr 24, 2014)

Attribule said:


> Games typically have "glitchless" or "glitch" categories for this reason.



Yeah, I'm fine with glitched/tool-assisted runs, as long as those types of records are kept separate from "purist" runs.


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## Reindeer (May 1, 2014)

Sorry to revive an old thread, but a friend of mine is a huge fan of Cosmo. He often talks about how he's trying out new tricks or whatever, I don't really pay attention to it. I've often told him that I think the whole speedrunning thing has become stupid since these glitches and tool-assisted runs became so popular.

Back in the good old days you played Metal Gear Solid from beginning to end on the highest difficulty without skipping anything. And to me, that's the only acceptable way to do a speedrun.


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## Alice (May 1, 2014)

Reindeer said:


> Sorry to revive an old thread, but a friend of mine is a huge fan of Cosmo. He often talks about how he's trying out new tricks or whatever, I don't really pay attention to it. I've often told him that I think the whole speedrunning thing has become stupid since these glitches and tool-assisted runs became so popular.
> 
> Back in the good old days you played Metal Gear Solid from beginning to end on the highest difficulty without skipping anything. And to me, that's the only acceptable way to do a speedrun.



It's called a speedrun for a reason. Nothing about the name implies you're supposed to be playing it the way it was intended to be played.


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## Poppyann (May 2, 2014)

I take back what I said earlier in this thread. Last night I watched a guy complete Tomb Raider 2 in an hour and a half or something like that. It was  really impressive and he had a lot of skill to do it so quickly, alongside getting in the right positions for these glitches to work in the first place which looked kinda annoying


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## Cress (May 2, 2014)

I'd say I'd be fine if he put "used glitches" or something in the title. I think it's fine if you use glitches and stuff to finish faster, but don't categorize it under normal playthroughs.


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## Kip (May 3, 2014)

I don't see it as anything impressive. I want to see people actually master the whole game (Like its meant to be played).


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## XTheLancerX (May 3, 2014)

I don't really care, because it's the developers faults for not having the bugs fixed, especially for games like DS and older pokemon games you can't update, for example.

However, the speed runs should definitely be separated, glitched and not, and the ones that were done without glitching should be held up with a lot more respect than the glitching methods.


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