# Your Beliefs!



## InfinityFlames (Nov 19, 2014)

Hi, I am quite curious of what all of you guys believe in.
I would love to know what and why, or if you don't believe in anything 
I, myself, am a Christian, but don't worry, I don't try and force my beliefs on people


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## JJarmon (Nov 19, 2014)

I believe in a little bit of everything.  

I believe in God and I do consider myself slightly Christian, but I don't go to church or read the bible. I heavily believe in reincarnation though. It's a staple in my beliefs. All I can say is that I'm spiritual and keep an open mind.


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## alwatkins (Nov 19, 2014)

I'm a Christian too.


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## keybug55 (Nov 19, 2014)

I'm Jewish, and I find religion to be a family value. If you're not comfortable with the religion you're born into, then it's a self value too.


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## tobi! (Nov 19, 2014)

agnostic 
means I don't have time to worry or worship anything.


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## RayOfHope (Nov 19, 2014)

I don't believe in anything. Sometimes I guess I feel like there might be a God or Gods out there but how could I know for sure.


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## #1 Senpai (Nov 19, 2014)

I really don't know what I believe in.


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## sylveons (Nov 19, 2014)

i'd consider myself to be agnostic? however i do live in a christian family, and i still pray off and on. eh, idk.


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## Punchy-kun (Nov 19, 2014)

Christian. I was born in a Christian family. I was however never forced to believe, but I was educated in a very moral way, and I'm very grateful for that.
I've discovered for myself that there is a God , and that it is the God of the Bible. I'm very faithful to my belief and I truly believe it. It is also the only religion that says "You cannot be saved by being a "good person"(but being a good is very important as well of course) but by your faith in Jesus Christ, that He really sacrificed Himself so we could be saved." 
All have done wrong sometime, and only Jesus' sacrifice can wash away that, and only the son of God is good enough to compensate for all the bad we did. So it's not by ourselves but by the free gift of God, who anyone can receive if they put their faith in Him.

As the Bible says it we're not saved by good works, for all have fallen short. But we're saved by faith. But the evidence of true faith is good works. So "faith" without works or works without faith cannot save. 

So yeah, that's my belief. I don't, and cannot force people to become Christian, but I do like talking about my faith.


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## MishMeesh (Nov 19, 2014)

I consider myself a pantheist. I believe the closest thing to divinity we have is the fact that the universe exists, and thus I believe everything is a part of "divinity", so it were. It's kind of hard to paraphrase, but I encourage anyone remotely interested to look it up. 

Also some Discordianism on the side for fun.


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## Meijin Kurito (Nov 19, 2014)

Am a proud Christian. But I do respect other people's beliefs


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## Alienfish (Nov 19, 2014)

Atheist. 

Been through way too much for my age and I never believed in that kind of stuff and what they make to some people I hate.


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## oranje (Nov 19, 2014)

I would consider myself a spiritual agnostic. It just means that while I don't believe in the Abramaic god, I would be willing to believe in a higher presence or spiritual order that is not anthropomorphic. Nature and it's beauty awes me and my spirituality stems from nature and the good and beautiful things that come from humanity. I personally admire Buddhist beliefs and take inspiration from it but I'm not a Buddhist myself.


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## Brackets (Nov 19, 2014)

I call myself an atheist, but I would never say I don't believe in anything. Although I don't have a set of beliefs that I follow, I love wondering about the universe and how it began and why we're here, and thinking about all the different possibilities - it's not like I just refuse to consider anything until there's evidence.

I'm pretty certain there's no God though (obviously you can never be 100% certain), and especially not the Christian god or any of the other religious ones that I've heard about.  Religion confuses me because I always think how do you know your religion is the 'right' one? As Richard Dawkins once said, 'We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further'. I just don't get how you can discount all other Gods but believe in your own. I guess it's about faith though.

I think if there WAS a 'God', it would be more of a spiritual entity and wouldn't bother with all the stuff like the 10 commandments and sending Jesus down and all that jazz.


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## Goth (Nov 19, 2014)

this is the cause of the damn atheist thread just no


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## Reindeer (Nov 19, 2014)

Noiru said:


> Atheist.
> 
> Been through way too much for my age and I never believed in that kind of stuff and what they make to some people I hate.


This is pretty much my view on it, though I did believe up to a certain point. I was raised in a Catholic home, so it came with the territory, but when I was around 6 or 7 I stopped believing. People have tried to convert me back into it but due to all the things that have happened and are still happening to me, I find it impossible to believe in any higher being.



GaMERCaT said:


> this is the cause of the damn atheist thread just no


As long as people are civil, I don't see the problem.


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## Guero101 (Nov 19, 2014)

a proud Catholic my friends. amen


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## Envy (Nov 19, 2014)

I believe in the life and Earth in front of me.


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## #1 Senpai (Nov 19, 2014)

GaMERCaT said:


> this is the cause of the damn atheist thread just no



lol. I don't see the problem with this thread but okay.


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## Watchingthetreetops (Nov 19, 2014)

I believe in acceptance.  I have personal beliefs as far as what god is and what god is capable of.  But those are mine.  And I like to respect and learn about other's beliefs.  It's interesting what people believe in and it's actually kind of beautiful.  I have believed for a long time that the only way to really be happy is to accept what you cannot change, and do what you can to make people happy.  I think it's important to balance that and making your self happy.  Since we're only here once, you have to give yourself some slack but never forget about the people who care about you.  Where god comes into play, I'm not sure.  I just know that I believe in God.


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## Flop (Nov 19, 2014)

I'm an atheist but I believe in everyone being able to believe what they want to. Technically I'm a Unitarian Universalist that just doesn't believe in God. I respect everyone's religious beliefs, and I can't stand atheists who complain about Christianity and bash on it because it's not what they believe. 

Tl; dr I think anyone can believe anything they want, and religious hypocrites piss me off.


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## Chris (Nov 19, 2014)

I make a point of keeping my beliefs strictly to myself. I know what I believe in and I've no desire to persuade others to think likewise, nor do I feel a need to justify or defend my beliefs to others.


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## unintentional (Nov 19, 2014)

I'm Christian, but honestly, as long as you don't do something that harms you or someone else, I'm cool with it.  I try not to talk about my beliefs though, as one of the other Christians at my school proudly had me know "You can't have a girlfriend and still be a Christian."  Like no, shut up.  This is the same christian who slapped a drink out of my hand because the company supported gay marriage /rolls eyes aggressively/  She also said I shouldn't be so happy to learn about Charles Darwin because of my religion.  Like, please leave me alone.  I find the topic super cool and interesting


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## starlark (Nov 19, 2014)

I'd say I'm a Christian, but seeing how much hate the religion (a sub religion of Christianity itself) gets makes me doubt my faith.

I'm really scared to be who I am. And it's scary because when I want to believe it, I see how much hate we get I'm scared away. 
But it feels like the right religion-I'm just not convinced enough people have a good opinion of it for me to come back.

- - - Post Merge - - -

I'm thinking of just being neutral on everything: I support homosexuality, sex before marriage, that type of stuff but my parents nearly disowned me when I told them I was considering coming out of the religion.


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## VillagerBoyDreams (Nov 19, 2014)

It's hard to explain what I believe,
I was personally raised as a Catholic, but also born into one of those "God isn't real, pics or it didn't happen" type families.
(I am in 2 families)
So, both families have different opinions, I am a very logical person however and find that the whole God thing could be easily disproven as there is little proof, I also however have been, well, raised to believe in God, and I can't exactly fully deny God's existence, no matter how little logic there is going into that "theory".
So, I don't think this is an actual religion, so if it isn't I'll make it and call it "Scientific-Bible Theory".
I essentially believe that God exists, but as opposed to the bullcrap, "he made evryting cuz hez gawd. lel, stpid legic", I believe that he was the cause of the Big Bang, his "5 days of creation" or however long they were, when he supposedly made Earth and Adam, Eve, etc., that all that time to him was only however many days, but to us it was millions-upon-trillions of years, that he guided evolution and caused the Earth to be created using his "powers".
However, as far as this theory goes to explain many illogical events it still cant explain God himself, thats the biggest flaw, noone can explain his existence, if you believe you seem illogical, because, explain God, you cant. Maybe he's a mystical deity that created the Triforce or maybe he is just the essence of Luck, and everything happened because of pure luck. I dont know nor will I ever, until I die and I either see beautiful cities of gold or nothing.
Phew, sorry about the novel, lol.

Edit: As a side note, I don't fully believe in God either, I am positive in science however, but the reasons I don't fully trust or believe in a God are as follows:
If there is a God, why the hell is this world so screwed up?
If there is a God, who is supposedly "omnipotent" why is there a Satan?
If there is a God, why did Satan ever supposedly become Satan?
If there is a God, that is supposedly "omnipotent" then why can't he show himself?
If there is a God, why can't he end evils such as cancer?
If there is a God, why do innocent children die every day but murderers have fun living it big?
If there is a God, why don't I have 100% faith he's even real?
These are just some of the reasons.


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## Improv (Nov 19, 2014)

I'm a Christian and I don't discuss my reasons online.


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## honeymoo (Nov 19, 2014)

I'm not a really religious person.. I'm kabbalah, but it's not like I'm going to church or anything like that. I believe humans should give each other respect, and that if the belief you have interferes with being respectful, it's not the right path for me!

- - - Post Merge - - -



Tina said:


> I make a point of keeping my beliefs strictly to myself. I know what I believe in and I've no desire to persuade others to think likewise, nor do I feel a need to justify or defend my beliefs to others.



I'm sort of this way too. I'd rather not talk about the big picture most of the time, it's my own personal mindset!


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## unintentional (Nov 19, 2014)

VillagerBoyDreams said:


> It's hard to explain what I believe,
> If there is a God, why did Satan ever supposedly become Satan?
> If there is a God, why can't he end evils such as cancer?



Just want to bring up a point, didn't the bible say Satan became Satan because he wanted to overtake God?  It's been awhile, but I totally understand.

And on the point of the second question, this guy at my church said Cancer is the patients faults.  Because Cancer is a mutation usually brought on by a virus.  He didn't just tell me that, but my little sister.  He told a 6 year old, if she gets cancer (which runs in my family like crazy) it's /her/ fault.  Like wtf?


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## VillagerBoyDreams (Nov 19, 2014)

Saint_Jimmy said:


> Just want to bring up a point, didn't the bible say Satan became Satan because he wanted to overtake God?  It's been awhile, but I totally understand.
> 
> And on the point of the second question, this guy at my church said Cancer is the patients faults.  Because Cancer is a mutation usually brought on by a virus.  He didn't just tell me that, but my little sister.  He told a 6 year old, if she gets cancer (which runs in my family like crazy) it's /her/ fault.  Like wtf?



On your first point, if there is a God that's omnipotent, why cant he know what to do with his angels, stop them from having thoughts such as those?

On your second thing, what the actual frickity-frink.
Wut. That's just... Disgusting.


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## unintentional (Nov 19, 2014)

VillagerBoyDreams said:


> On your first point, if there is a God that's omnipotent, why cant he know what to do with his angels, stop them from having thoughts such as those?
> 
> On your second thing, what the actual frickity-frink.
> Wut. That's just... Disgusting.



I don't know.  I had a thought going, but then my mind stopped hah


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## NikkiNikki (Nov 19, 2014)

nvm


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## Dustmop (Nov 19, 2014)

VillagerBoyDreams said:


> Edit: As a side note, I don't fully believe in God either, I am positive in science however, but the reasons I don't fully trust or believe in a God are as follows:
> If there is a God, why the hell is this world so screwed up?
> If there is a God, who is supposedly "omnipotent" why is there a Satan?
> If there is a God, why did Satan ever supposedly become Satan?
> ...



Just a few very good points, lol. The thing about Satan still gets me -- if he was God's right-hand man, and obviously also created by him, then why couldn't he predict that was going to happen?

Though there's a bazillion questions for every religion that I'd like to pick someone's brain about. Like how come there aren't any historical documents that mention Jesus. At all.


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## ThomasNLD (Nov 19, 2014)

I'm not religious, but do get inspired a bit by Buddhism.


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## mishka (Nov 19, 2014)

I'm converting to Judaism. If anyone else here is jewish, please message me. c:


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## Bowie (Nov 19, 2014)

My approach to religion is very agnostic in the sense that I do not want to be told anything. I think religion causes way too much trouble, though. People kill themselves over it, people are getting their heads chopped off if they don't convert to another religion and it just all seems too much. I really respect the Buddhists, however. That's one thing I don't have any trouble with. What I like is how respectful they are to all forms of life, including bugs and insects. People like that really restore my faith in humanity. I don't really want to be categorised when it comes down to my faith. I have faith, but it's not religious faith. I don't particularly believe in any specific gods or goddesses. I don't want to call myself an atheist, because that kinda implies I don't have faith, and I have a lot of faith, and I'm very spiritual and I think spirituality is the only thing I can really trust.


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## #1 Senpai (Nov 19, 2014)

Saint_Jimmy said:


> Just want to bring up a point, didn't the bible say Satan became Satan because he wanted to overtake God?  It's been awhile, but I totally understand.
> 
> And on the point of the second question, this guy at my church said Cancer is the patients faults.  Because Cancer is a mutation usually brought on by a virus.  He didn't just tell me that, but my little sister.  He told a 6 year old, if she gets cancer (which runs in my family like crazy) it's /her/ fault.  Like wtf?



What the ****? That guy is crazy and hella wrong..wth. It's not the persons fault unless they do something that makes them at risk or such.

- - - Post Merge - - -



> Edit: As a side note, I don't fully believe in God either, I am positive in science however, but the reasons I don't fully trust or believe in a God are as follows:
> If there is a God, why the hell is this world so screwed up?
> If there is a God, who is supposedly "omnipotent" why is there a Satan?
> If there is a God, why did Satan ever supposedly become Satan?
> ...



or who even created God? 

I always get answers like "nobody created him" "he was just there" i myself, don't think so.


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## Lio Fotia (Nov 20, 2014)

I'm a scientologist. This means I am immortal and have thus awakened my true nature through auditing. It's all very hush hush and kinda expensive, but I believe that I am an alien trapped in this human body and that my space people were once part of the galactic federation (lol not starwars) and then we were all forced to earth on modern day aircraft and forced to stand on a volcano exploded by a hydrogen bomb and then we all get reborn over and over and over and all kinda of cool **** like that. 

LOL J/K I'm atheist.

But legit that's what's scientology is about, no lie.


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## shinkuzame (Nov 20, 2014)

Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior Castiel?

NAH, I'm agnostic; don't flame me.


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## Lio Fotia (Nov 20, 2014)

VillagerBoyDreams said:


> Edit: As a side note, I don't fully believe in God either, I am positive in science however, but the reasons I don't fully trust or believe in a God are as follows:
> If there is a God, why the hell is this world so screwed up?
> If there is a God, who is supposedly "omnipotent" why is there a Satan?
> If there is a God, why did Satan ever supposedly become Satan?
> ...



If god is omnipotent, he could obviously create an object he cannot move, right? But if he is omnipotent he should be able to move any object... 

This is what keeps me up at night.


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## The Peanut Butter Fish (Nov 20, 2014)

I'm Christian. I was born into a not too religious family, nothing was forced on to me but since my family had taught me it just felt right. I don't think I could be an atheist(is that an okay term for me to use?) because it would make me too sad to think that there's nothing past death, it's hard to imagine. I respect all religions and am quite interested in a few. I'll even respect people who worship a flying spaghetti monster.


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## Mango (Nov 20, 2014)

VillagerBoyDreams said:


> If there is a God, why the hell is this world so screwed up?
> If there is a God, who is supposedly "omnipotent" why is there a Satan?
> If there is a God, why did Satan ever supposedly become Satan?
> If there is a God, that is supposedly "omnipotent" then why can't he show himself?
> ...



i agree with this. 
also i hate the annoying christians who shove their religion in my face
and who say you cant be gay and what not.


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## Locket (Nov 20, 2014)

Mormon. Ish.


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## Aryxia (Nov 20, 2014)

Catholic, but my whole family has left-wing views when it comes to gender/sexuality/abortion/etc. Honestly, having religious/non-religious beliefs and holding yourself in higher esteem than someone because of it and/or dehumanizing them because their lifestyle disagrees with your sense of morality is just plain disgusting.


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## shayminskyforme88 (Nov 20, 2014)

I'm Christian, I accept everyone regardless of their beliefs and I don't force my beliefs on anyone.


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## Punchy-kun (Nov 20, 2014)

starlark said:


> I'd say I'm a Christian, but seeing how much hate the religion (a sub religion of Christianity itself) gets makes me doubt my faith.
> 
> I'm really scared to be who I am. And it's scary because when I want to believe it, I see how much hate we get I'm scared away.
> But it feels like the right religion-I'm just not convinced enough people have a good opinion of it for me to come back.
> ...



Hey, don't give up on Christianity because of that. Jesus Himself said Christians will be hated, remember?


Spoiler: John 15:18-25



18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.



As a Christian it's normal that you can't love the world and accept all the things it accepts. God says you can't love both, and I choose God above the worldly views. I rather be hated for loving God than loved by the world for not doing so. 



VillagerBoyDreams said:


> As a side note, I don't fully believe in God either, I am positive in science however, but the reasons I don't fully trust or believe in a God are as follows:
> If there is a God, why the hell is this world so screwed up?
> If there is a God, who is supposedly "omnipotent" why is there a Satan?
> If there is a God, why did Satan ever supposedly become Satan?
> ...


1. Because God gave people a choice, which means being able to choose NOT to do what He wants, to be able to do bad, to hate, etc. God allows this for the sake of choice.
2.God is omnipotent, but he allows Satan. Satan believes that he can still win, but it's always been a done deal that God will drop him in Hell where he will be powerless for ever. Satan is part of God's plan and he allows it, just like he allows choice.  But one day God will put a stop to it all but now he allows freedom so people can willfully choose for Him.
3. Because God gave Satan too a choice. He wasn't a "robot". And so iniquity was found in the angel that he once was, and he was cast out of Heaven, since nothing impure can be in Heaven.
4. He has shown Himself(aka Jesus). God doesn't want people to believe because they see Him, hence why Jesus said to unbelieving Thomas "Blessed are those who believe without seeing", for what faith is there in seeing Him? 
5. Because cancer, and other sicknesses have a cause, which God doesn't interfere with. Of course sometimes He does interfere and may heal someone, but generally He lets men reap what they sew(I'm not saying someone who gets cancer is responsible for it himself, but mankind probably is). 
6. Because Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world. God allows evil since He allows choice. And He leaves evil people to their delusions and lets them gain power and wealth knowing it all will come to nothing which it will. Because this life is just a flash, it's nothing compared to eternity.


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## ACNiko (Nov 20, 2014)

I believe in reincarnation. Which is probably as religious as I can get.


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## #1 Senpai (Nov 20, 2014)

Punchy-kun said:


> Hey, don't give up on Christianity because of that. Jesus Himself said Christians will be hated, remember?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: John 15:18-25
> ...



Who created God cuz?


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## Punchy-kun (Nov 20, 2014)

Is it so hard to understand that a God is not something created? It's He that has always been and always will be. We are humans, the creation, being created and with our limited understanding we wonder who created God? Doesn't that sound a bit absurd?

I see it like this: All things have a creation, except God, which thus can explain the origin of everything. If that seems hard to understand it's because we're bound to physics and even our greatest wisdom is as foolishness to God.


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## Danielkang2 (Nov 20, 2014)

Punchy-kun said:


> Is it so hard to understand that a God is not something created? It's He that has always been and always will be. We are humans, the creation, being created and with our limited understanding we wonder who created God? Doesn't that sound a bit absurd?
> 
> I see it like this: All things have a creation, except God, which thus can explain the origin of everything. If that seems hard to understand it's because we're bound to physics and even our greatest wisdom is as foolishness to God.


An easy way to see it is like this. Ants can understand humans as much as we can understand god.

- - - Post Merge - - -



#1 Senpai said:


> What the ****? That guy is crazy and hella wrong..wth. It's not the persons fault unless they do something that makes them at risk or such.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...


What do you believe was the origin of the earth?

- - - Post Merge - - -

If there was a concrete answer to who created god then you'd ask who created the person that created god. Something has had to be the beginning whether a god, a particle, an explosion, etc..


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## Punchy-kun (Nov 20, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> If there was a concrete answer to who created god then you'd ask who created the person that created god. Something has had to be the beginning whether a god, a particle, an explosion, etc..



The only possible answer to the question to me is that there must have been something/someone that had no creation, thus being eternal. And this is obviously the creator and so God.


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## Danielkang2 (Nov 20, 2014)

VillagerBoyDreams said:


> It's hard to explain what I believe,
> I was personally raised as a Catholic, but also born into one of those "God isn't real, pics or it didn't happen" type families.
> (I am in 2 families)
> So, both families have different opinions, I am a very logical person however and find that the whole God thing could be easily disproven as there is little proof, I also however have been, well, raised to believe in God, and I can't exactly fully deny God's existence, no matter how little logic there is going into that "theory".
> ...


God created the world with his words, he spoke and it existd. If you want me to give you scientific evidence on how the big bang and evolution is flawed, you can ask me anytime.
1. He gave people a choice and the people sinned. Sin effects not only you but everything around you. 
2. I really don't understand your question.
3. Of course he can but if he just showed himself to everyone people would believe not solely on faith.
4. Cancer is a consequence of sin. Which is what we inflicted on ourselves.
5. Murderers don't have fun. Innocent children die every day because humans have an instinct of rebellion but god is righteous and he will make everything right. He will judge the wicked.
6. Faith is also a choice.


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## Brackets (Nov 20, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> 4. Cancer is a consequence of sin. Which is what we inflicted on ourselves.
> 5. Murderers don't have fun. Innocent children die every day because humans have an instinct of rebellion but god is righteous and he will make everything right. He will judge the wicked.



But that's horrible. So innocent children die because of other's sins? Why wouldn't God just punish the people who have sinned? How does giving a child cancer punish a murderer?

Also (this isn't in reply to Danielkang this is just my general thoughts), another thing that confuses me about religion and God is the fact that the universe is SO HUGE. There's 100 billion galaxies, each with billions of stars, each with their own planets. Surely there's other life out there? Why would God create such a massive universe only to care about humans on our tiny rock? Or do people believe he also has created other planets with life on? But if he's done that, then why would he care about such silly things like sexual orientation and sin, if there's thousands of other planets to look after? 

Ok I'm done with my questions :')


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## Punchy-kun (Nov 20, 2014)

Annachie said:


> But that's horrible. So innocent children die because of other's sins? Why wouldn't God just punish the people who have sinned? How does giving a child cancer punish a murderer?
> 
> Also (this isn't in reply to Danielkang this is just my general thoughts), another thing that confuses me about religion and God is the fact that the universe is SO HUGE. There's 100 billion galaxies, each with billions of stars, each with their own planets. Surely there's other life out there? Why would God create such a massive universe only to care about humans on our tiny rock? Or do people believe he also has created other planets with life on? But if he's done that, then why would he care about such silly things like sexual orientation and sin, if there's thousands of other planets to look after?
> 
> Ok I'm done with my questions :')



It's generally because MANKIND is sinful that it reaps what it sews. Cancer isn't a punishment. It's just something that happens in life. All the bad that happens will be judged, and will be judged justly but not yet. God allows the world to do what it wants, and lets them face the consequences. But JUDGEMENT is not yet while we live. Thatswhy so many bad people are doing so "good". 

And about your question. God is brilliant and we cannot know always everything WHY he does something. But I find the amazing beauty and awe of space just another point that calls out God's glory, His magnificence. 
Just because the universe is so giant, makes us much more unique and therefore a very great "miracle".


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## Dustmop (Nov 20, 2014)

Annachie said:


> But that's horrible. So innocent children die because of other's sins? Why wouldn't God just punish the people who have sinned? How does giving a child cancer punish a murderer?
> 
> Also (this isn't in reply to Danielkang this is just my general thoughts), another thing that confuses me about religion and God is the fact that the universe is SO HUGE. There's 100 billion galaxies, each with billions of stars, each with their own planets. Surely there's other life out there? Why would God create such a massive universe only to care about humans on our tiny rock? *Or do people believe he also has created other planets with life on? But if he's done that, then why would he care about such silly things like sexual orientation and sin, if there's thousands of other planets to look after? *
> 
> Ok I'm done with my questions :')




My dad says that the bible says something about not putting any other god before him, so dad takes that to mean that there are other gods for other people. That he put "certain" people on this planet (honestly, I'm pretty sure he only believes that white people are God's children, or whatever. Europeans only. but I'm sure other folk could also take it to mean our entire race of people. /shrug) and then that was that. Those people on this planet are 'his.'

But daddy doesn't deny there may be other life on other planets, too, just that they're not 'created' by the same god.

Of course, he only believes in the old testament and hates the new one, and he seems to hate Jesus, so ya know.. results may vary. lolol.


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## Brackets (Nov 20, 2014)

K





Dustmop said:


> My dad says that the bible says something about not putting any other god before him, so dad takes that to mean that there are other gods for other people. That he put "certain" people on this planet (honestly, I'm pretty sure he only believes that white people are God's children, or whatever. Europeans only. but I'm sure other folk could also take it to mean our entire race of people. /shrug) and then that was that. Those people on this planet are 'his.'
> 
> But daddy doesn't deny there may be other life on other planets, too, just that they're not 'created' by the same god.
> 
> ...



Ahh ok that's interesting, I hadn't heard of that view before. Awks about the white people part though :S

- - - Post Merge - - -



Punchy-kun said:


> It's generally because MANKIND is sinful that it reaps what it sews. Cancer isn't a punishment. It's just something that happens in life. All the bad that happens will be judged, and will be judged justly but not yet. God allows the world to do what it wants, and lets them face the consequences. But JUDGEMENT is not yet while we live. Thatswhy so many bad people are doing so "good".
> 
> And about your question. God is brilliant and we cannot know always everything WHY he does something. But I find the amazing beauty and awe of space just another point that calls out God's glory, His magnificence.
> Just because the universe is so giant, makes us much more unique and therefore a very great "miracle".



I'm still not sure about that sin part. Why should some people be punished and others not? And how does God decide if you're a 'good' person or not? Some people have more opportunity to be good than others, and that's not fair.

So you think there's no other life out there?


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## Angelmarina (Nov 20, 2014)

I'm agnostic, I guess I am kind of weird but I believe in the greek gods over God and Jesus. ^^


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## punkinpie (Nov 20, 2014)

Dustmop said:


> My dad says that the bible says something about not putting any other god before him, so dad takes that to mean that there are other gods for other people.


In the Ten Commandments, by saying "You shall have no other god before me," what he means by "god" is actually material and earthly objects. For instance, some of the people of that time worshiped a fake god called Ba'al. Mainly, it was the statues that they worshiped. For us today, it means not to love objects and pleasures more than God.
I dunno, that's just my opinion. I'm only 14, after all.


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## oranje (Nov 20, 2014)

Dustmop said:


> Just a few very good points, lol. The thing about Satan still gets me -- if he was God's right-hand man, and obviously also created by him, then why couldn't he predict that was going to happen?
> 
> Though there's a bazillion questions for every religion that I'd like to pick someone's brain about. Like how come there aren't any historical documents that mention Jesus. At all.



I just read an interesting book about the historical Jesus (rather than the biblical one) called "Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth" by Reza Aslan. Unfortunately there wasn't much documentation about Jesus near the time he was alive and the reason why was because Jesus was a peasant from a poor village. It wasn't until he died that people starting writing things about him and unfortunately it had been greatly exaggerated. :/ The reason why it was interesting to me was that even in early Christianity there were debates on whether Jesus was the literal son of God. Basically the book portrays Jesus as a rebel against the Roman Empire. He wanted to start a revolution to win back the land of Israel for the Jewish people and start a Kingdom of God here on earth for the Jewish community. Given the evidence in the book, that's what I'm going to go with as my interpretation of Jesus. 

Also given the debate here about life on other planets I'll give you guys these links that I find very interesting: 

"Which Religions Would Have The Hardest Time Accepting Alien Life?" 
"How Would Christianity Deal With Extraterrestrial Life?" 

My favorite theory regarding the second article is that God only sent Jesus down to earth is because we were the only ones with sin. I'm not religious by any means but I do find theology very fascinating.


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## Punchy-kun (Nov 20, 2014)

Annachie said:


> I'm still not sure about that sin part. Why should some people be punished and others not? And how does God decide if you're a 'good' person or not? Some people have more opportunity to be good than others, and that's not fair.
> 
> So you think there's no other life out there?


It's not punishment. Rightuous and sinners are treated alike. Christians get sick, sinners too. Babies, old people, etc. But the judgement comes after death, or rather on "the last day".

Exactly. And our salvation isn't based on our works(although if you didn't turn from your sins your faith is probably dead, and thus worthless, since everyone who has true faith will WANT to do the will of God).




			
				Ephesians 2:8-9 said:
			
		

> 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
> 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


See what I mean?

Nobody is good the Bible says. Everyone has fallen short from the glory of God. And because everyone is imperfect, and nothing imperfect can enter Heaven we all pretty much deserve Hell. But this is what Jesus did, out of love for us. (Thatswhy it's written "He loves us while we were yet sinners"). He came to earth, lived a perfect life, and then died on the cross and took the sins of the world on to Himself and payed the price for it. This is the gift the verse above is talking about. And so we are saved by our faith in Jesus. If we truly believe that He died for our sins, and was raised again on the third day we will be saved.

Hope that cleared some up 

And I don't really think there are human-like life forms out there. But that's just what I think. I don't know, and I don't really care too much because I think it's irrelevant to our relationship with God.


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## #1 Senpai (Nov 20, 2014)

Punchy-kun said:


> Is it so hard to understand that a God is not something created? It's He that has always been and always will be. We are humans, the creation, being created and with our limited understanding we wonder who created God? Doesn't that sound a bit absurd?
> 
> I see it like this: All things have a creation, except God, which thus can explain the origin of everything. If that seems hard to understand it's because we're bound to physics and even our greatest wisdom is as foolishness to God.



No, what sounds absurd is nothing created God, he was just miraculously there. 

Like serious, how can everything be created by God yet nothing creates God? lool wat


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## unintentional (Nov 20, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> 4. Cancer is a consequence of sin. Which is what we inflicted on ourselves.



So even if a little kids who are only two years old, it's their fault? This is what makes Christianity so hard to defend.  Why would a God who is full of love, cause such a bad thing to happen to those who haven't done anything wrong?


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## DoctorGallifrey (Nov 20, 2014)

I'm an Atheist


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## Reindeer (Nov 20, 2014)

A question to the Christians though:

Jesus was the ultimate replacement for animal sacrifices, as without bloodshed there could be no forgiveness. So without Jesus being crucified there would be no forgiving your sins. That means that even if you sin now, say you go and murder somebody, it's forgiven anyway. Why would things like cancer and other illnesses be given to people as punishment for sinning, when a sin is basically already forgiven before it's committed? It makes no sense to me.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 20, 2014)

I am Christian, but I tend to be open minded. I tend to take a philosophical stance on creation. I want to know how we got here and why. Was it evolution or was it by design? I yearn to know what the meaning of life is and why we hurt each other because our beliefs differ. I am religious, but I cannot help but think sometimes that religion causes more suffering and intolerance than love, compassion, and understanding. I look at religion with a loving, but pitying eye. We are supposed to love one another, but so much blood has been shed because we all have different beliefs. I do not want a single belief system; I want understanding and tolerance among beliefs.


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## VillagerBoyDreams (Nov 20, 2014)

Mango said:


> i agree with this.
> also i hate the annoying christians who shove their religion in my face
> and who say you cant be gay and what not.



Another nice point, why did this "God" have to lose his son before he could accept gays?
And exactly, christians can be disgusting at times because of their "sharing" nature. (Only certain ones, most are very good people, not to make an assumption based on religion.)
EDIT: My new title should be "The Bringer of Controversy", but, as someone here said, (sorry I don't remember your name! >.<) when people say God just existed, or he was always here, then, was there ever a time God wasn't here? And if God wasn't there then how did it exist? Or if God was born with the universe, then how was the universe made without a God?
Just more controversial food for your thought.
I feel I'm making more people atheist than certain bombings and shootings.
Ooooh, yikes, that's some touchy material, more controversy, all shall rejoice!


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 20, 2014)

That is one thing that scares me about being Christian. Many are far too dogmatic. They view themselves as holy, but are very spiteful and hateful. I hate to say it, but I think the new popular stereotype of Christianity is like unto the Westborough Baptist Church. I think I will go hide in my hole now until the world finds something else to collectively hate.


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## NikkiNikki (Nov 20, 2014)

Reindeer said:


> A question to the Christians though:
> 
> Jesus was the ultimate replacement for animal sacrifices, as without bloodshed there could be no forgiveness. So without Jesus being crucified there would be no forgiving your sins. That means that even if you sin now, say you go and murder somebody, it's forgiven anyway. Why would things like cancer and other illnesses be given to people as punishment for sinning, when a sin is basically already forgiven before it's committed? It makes no sense to me.


hi

God is always ready and willing to forgive us, He requires two things of us as conditions of forgiveness: repentance and forgiveness of others.

Repentance means a sincere resolve to turn away from sin and toward God.

From that time on Jesus began to preach,*"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."*(NIV, Matthew 4:17)

True repentance involves sorrow for acts of sin and leads to a fundamental change in attitude. We are all sinners in our own ways (Romans 3:23,*1*John 1:8), and we may fail time and again in our attempt to avoid sin. God is always willing for us to start over and make another attempt. However, if we ask for forgiveness with the intention of sinning again, we have not really repented.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 20, 2014)

I wouldn't say cancer is a punishment for sins as it is a tool God uses to help everyone learn. I cannot say what the purpose of disease is, but I do not think the reason is something as archaic as sin. Yes it is sad that children and adults pass away from cancer and disease, but those who remain learn that we can go at any time and that we should learn from what the deceased taught us. Everyone has a purpose, we are here for one reason or another; be it to become president or to make someone's day. Every interaction changes the world in some way. One persons' life can alter so many things in the subtlest ways. I personally think that disease is a tool used to teach us some sort of lesson; not a punishment for some sin. This is just my personal belief; take it how you will, but I am open to your thoughts.


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## Lio Fotia (Nov 20, 2014)

I believe I shall pick this apart one section at a time because wow.



Danielkang2 said:


> God created the world with his words, he spoke and it existd. If you want me to give you scientific evidence on how the big bang and evolution is flawed, you can ask me anytime.



Cool story bro, but how about we ignore the fact that the Big Bang is no longer a theory and has been scientifically proven as fact now along with the fact that there is insurmountable evidence of evolution. Oh i dunno, I guess that all that doesn't matter. 



> 1. He gave people a choice and the people sinned. Sin affects not only you but everything around you.



I took the liberty of correcting your spelling and grammatical mistakes. That is sinful in itself.

Okay, to my main point, and we'll take the bible aspect of this for your ease of mind. 

"God" gave humans FREE WILL. Free will to make decisions for ourselves, to choose what we do and don't do. You answer is true to a point. It's actually... very scientific. With every decision people make, it affects others. Not just sin. Good choices, bad choices, no choice at all affects everyone. The point of a self aware mind is balance any decisions you make so that others are not affected. This is human nature. Be it your sin, abiding by a law or choosing to date someone you like. So while this statement is true, it's a life given. No need to be so harsh.



> 2. I really don't understand your question.



They were hypothetical. All of them. That means they didn't need an answer.



> 3. Of course he can but if he just showed himself to everyone people would believe not solely on faith.



While some people actually believe blindly, there are people who need proof, and there are people who need more than a blood stained book to guide them. That's a harsh thing to say about the bible, I know, but even the english version you read was incorrectly translated for the expressed purpose by King James to burn "witches" at the stake and persecute homosexuals.

History lesson time, in the time the old testament was written, there was no hebrew words for "Homosexual" nor "witch" nor a few other things that are mysteriously in the King James Version of the bible. Why is this. King James is QUOTED saying that he wanted these things added in for HIS agenda. Seriously, look it up. So today we people who are persecuted for being homosexual are accused as such because of a few words in a book over 40 thousand years old that was *purposely* mistranslated by a british king.



> 4. Cancer is a consequence of sin. Which is what we inflicted on ourselves.



Now excuse the **** outta me when I pause to rip you a new one for this comment. I have lost three people in my family to cancer, my grandmother and mother have both fought and won against cancer and how dare you say something so ignorant, self serving and utter bull****. 

My Great Grandmother was the most pious woman you could have ever know. She had considered being a nun, but fell in love with my great grandfather and decided that was the path god wanted her to walk on. She died on lung cancer.

My Grandmother has fought cancer on and off her whole life. She goes to church every week, she runs church functions, she travels the world to help youth and impoverished people in the name of the lord and have given countless hours to helping people in need, hundreds if not thousands into different charities and youth organizations and has even spilt her own blood sweat and tears helping people in need hands on, going into dangerous places to spread good will in the name of the lord. And you DARE tell me her battle with her cancers are HER SIN?

My MOTHER has dedicated HER LIFE into saving the lives of CHILDREN from abuse, poverty and certain DEATH by the hands of their own parents. My mother has had a gun aimed at her, has had death threats thrown at her and has almost died TWICE trying to help abused children. Her efforts in her job has lead her to writing LAWS on the books to better protect children. And you DARE SAY *MY MOTHER'S SIN* cause her to have BREAST CANCER!?

This is a load of crap. Cancer is the body attacking itself through rapid cell division, a blip in DNA turned deadly. It has nothing to do with Sin or whatever the **** you fell you need to justify it to turn a blind eye to a problem that kills MILLIONS every year. "Oh they are sinners, obviously" No. They are people like you and me who just happen to have cells that are killing them. You can't just pray cancer away, you have to get treatment as well. If prayer worked that well, then why do we have full centers dedicated to it? Why is the bulk of medical research focused on it. Because pray alone won't stop it. 

The ignorance of that statement is infuriating.



> 5. Murderers don't have fun. Innocent children die every day because humans have an instinct of rebellion but god is righteous and he will make everything right. He will judge the wicked.



I just. wow. Murderers kill for enjoyment, at least that's what most murderers on death row will say. This is a cop out answer that would piss anyone who has had a murmur victim in their family or whom have lost a child. I've already torn into you once, I can't even start to even begin to say how ****ed up this is. I have lost a child, and your words just stab me. Why, WHY would I want to be a part of a faith that tells me my actions killed my child? Why would anyone want to be a part of that? I did nothing wrong, and I still lost him. How dare you. How DARE you.



> 6. Faith is also a choice.



You are right. You are 150% right. Faith in god is a CHOICE. Not a choice you can force onto anyone ever. You cannot make someone choose to follow you into a religion and you can choose to respect them or you can choose to be an utter jerk and thrust it down other's throats like a complete jerk. 

The **** you said here makes me so mad, it makes me cry that people actually feel it's okay to say this stuff, it makes me ache that people don't see how insensitive they are and it makes me disappointed that there are humans who actually believe and say such things. It's like... this post... raped me spiritually, blaming the blameless and casting hate toward those that they don't understand. It's not okay, it's not okay. 

You will not gain favours like this. Nor will anyone want to even consider converting.


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## unintentional (Nov 20, 2014)

MrPuzzleMan said:


> I wouldn't say cancer is a punishment for sins as it is a tool God uses to help everyone learn. I cannot say what the purpose of disease is, but I do not think the reason is something as archaic as sin. Yes it is sad that children and adults pass away from cancer and disease, but those who remain learn that we can go at any time and that we should learn from what the deceased taught us. Everyone has a purpose, we are here for one reason or another; be it to become president or to make someone's day. Every interaction changes the world in some way. One persons' life can alter so many things in the subtlest ways. I personally think that disease is a tool used to teach us some sort of lesson; not a punishment for some sin. This is just my personal belief; take it how you will, but I am open to your thoughts.



He's helping us learn by making other ones suffer?


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## NikkiNikki (Nov 20, 2014)

diseases are not “punishment.” They are a result of living in a fallen world and upon a cursed earth. Anyone can develop cancer whether they are a believer or a non believer.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 20, 2014)

Very true. I had a Mennonite friend who died from cancer.


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## Reindeer (Nov 20, 2014)

Callaway said:


> Cool story bro, but how about we ignore the fact that the Big Bang is no longer a theory and has been scientifically proven as fact now along with the fact that there is insurmountable evidence of evolution. Oh i dunno, I guess that all that doesn't matter.


In this case I'd actually like to hear the evidence, though. I'm curious what this groundbreaking stuff would be, as long as it's not the same old stuff I've heard before that just arises from them misunderstanding the facts.


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## unintentional (Nov 20, 2014)

NikkiNikki said:


> diseases are not “punishment.” They are a result of living in a fallen world and upon a cursed earth. Anyone can develop cancer whether they are a believer or a non believer.



"Yes it is sad that children and adults pass away from cancer and disease, but those who remain learn that we can go at any time and that we should learn from what the deceased taught us."
"Cancer is a consequence of sin. Which is what we inflicted on ourselves." (the consequence here, being death usually in younger kids and the elderly, is a punishment.)

Taken from MrPuzzleMan (and Danielkang2), which is who I was talking to.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Danielkang2 said:


> God created the world with his words, he spoke and it existd. If you want me to give you scientific evidence on how the big bang and evolution is flawed, you can ask me anytime.



Please tell me   It has been proven by science (as has the Theory of Evolution, which actually can be used as proof we all came from a God.  It states we all came (yes, everything.) from one common ancestor)..  As a Christian, you can't turn a blind eye to what has been proven through a lot of tests.  What's next, fossils are fake?


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## Yui Z (Nov 20, 2014)

VillagerBoyDreams said:


> If there is a God, why the hell is this world so screwed up?
> If there is a God, who is supposedly "omnipotent" why is there a Satan?
> If there is a God, why did Satan ever supposedly become Satan?
> If there is a God, that is supposedly "omnipotent" then why can't he show himself?
> ...


Oh hi I just wanted to drop by because I like your thinking, so umm hello. I thought I'd give this a shot because you bring up some good points that made me want to respond. =P *Long, thought-out post alert*

Firstly, most of your questions or thoughts are basically wondering why there's evil in our world if there's really an "omnipotent" God as you say. I agree. The world is pretty screwed up. Satan, also known as Lucifer before he became a fallen angel, came to kill, steal and destroy in this world. He was jealous of God and wanted to become as powerful as him if I remembered correctly.

Some Christians take the creation story literally while other take it as a symbolic story as to how God created the world, but it's said that Eve took the fruit from the tree of knowledge (pretty sure that's the name of it) which meant that both her and Adam became aware of sin after he did the same. This meant they could no longer be perfect. It's believed that God loves us so much that he gives us a choice in life of whether to believe and go his way or not. Basically free-will to choose his path, our own path or a different path. 

God cannot reveal himself to us because he is such a perfect God. It's said that he cannot look at sin (and we can't look at him) because he's so perfect, and the result of sin was death. So he sent Jesus to die for us so that we don't have to have the punishment of sin (death). In other words, we die once and then live eternally in heaven with him if we believe in him. 

He made our world with enough resources for everyone (food/water, etc) but there's so much selfishness in the world that not everyone gets in on it. 

The innocent people who die everyday is again because of sin and Satan. God sent people to help each other and to look after the Earth, but he also gave us free-will so we choose whether or not we want to do that. There are people who go out and help the needy, hungry, etc. However there are also many people who choose not to.  

Cancer isn't a punishment for our sins. If that was the case then we'd all have cancer because we're all imperfect and we all sin. At the centre of sIn is the letter 'I' which is sort of what sin revolves around. Selfishness.

Great questions. Sorry if I didn't explain myself well (it's late), and this is pretty much just what I believe. You might disagree, but that's okay haha.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 20, 2014)

I apologize for interrupting your conversation. Please continue.


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## unintentional (Nov 20, 2014)

MrPuzzleMan said:


> I apologize for interrupting your conversation. Please continue.



if this was to me, I wasn't meaning it in a bad way v~v  I just get really uppity about stuff like this.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 20, 2014)

No problem. I am just enjoying having a civil conversation with others on our various beliefs.


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## Lio Fotia (Nov 20, 2014)

Reindeer said:


> In this case I'd actually like to hear the evidence, though. I'm curious what this groundbreaking stuff would be, as long as it's not the same old stuff I've heard before that just arises from them misunderstanding the facts.



Sure.

CNN, NYTIMES, SPACE.COM, and NASA

It was proven just this year.


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## Reindeer (Nov 20, 2014)

Saint_Jimmy said:


> Please tell me   It has been proven by science (as has the Theory of Evolution, which actually can be used as proof we all came from a God.  It states we all came (yes, everything.) from one common ancestor)..  As a Christian, you can't turn a blind eye to what has been proven through a lot of tests.  What's next, fossils are fake?


To repeat what I said in another thread regarding people focusing on the word "theory" in theory of evolution:
If we are simply theorizing about how something works but we have no evidence to back it up, it's called a hypothesis.
If we know something is real and we find out how it works, which can be backed up with tangible evidence, it's called a theory.

People wouldn't deny that gravity exists, yet the way we try to explain gravity is within the theory of relativity (which was the successor to the theory of gravity). There's also theories about things like molecules, plate tectonics, and various other things which people would not deny.

The theory of evolution, therefore, is not "this is how we think it works". That would be the hypothesis of evolution. The theory of evolution is backed up by mountains of evidence, like DNA, the fossil record, etc. All that Darwin did with _On the Origin of Species_ was bring forth an explanation as to how evolution works, because for 100 years before he published it, humankind already knew that species evolved.

And that's also why it's called the "big bang theory" and not the "big bang hypothesis". There is scientific evidence to back it up.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Callaway said:


> Sure.
> 
> CNN, NYTIMES, SPACE.COM, and NASA
> 
> It was proven just this year.


Sorry, I didn't mean from you. I was wondering what kind of evidence Danielkang2 had to disprove evolution and the big bang.


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## unintentional (Nov 20, 2014)

Reindeer said:


> To repeat what I said in another thread regarding people focusing on the word "theory" in theory of evolution:
> If we are simply theorizing about how something works but we have no evidence to back it up, it's called a hypothesis.
> If we know something is real and we find out how it works, which can be backed up with tangible evidence, it's called a theory.
> 
> ...



Ah, I didn't mean for someone to write so much /sorry/  I was repeating what my biology teacher said (though, I think I misquoted it a bit, but whatever I'm tired)I fully agree with evolution (much to my parents displeasure)


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## Margot (Nov 20, 2014)

I mostly believe in ghosts, spirits, energy, angels and demons


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 20, 2014)

I also find this news about how scientists found the basis of life on a comet interesting. The Bible did say that we were created from dust, but it doesn't necessarily mean dust from our planet. Life had to start from somewhere.


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## Bowie (Nov 20, 2014)

I am so sick of all the people saying nobody created God. If God is in fact real, I'd be curious as to how he originated. I wouldn't be happy with him saying that he created himself out of thin air and that's the end of it. That's impossible. His universe must have been created by someone or something, and how did that someone or something originate? I think these questions are important to answer, and it almost seems like a lot of Christians just want to dismiss them because there aren't any answers.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 20, 2014)

Yup Yup.

- - - Post Merge - - -

That is a question people have been asking for centuries. God had to come from somewhere. How can He create Himself if He didn't exist at the time of His creation? It's like the old question; Can God create a boulder He cannot lift? It's a mind boggler.


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## unintentional (Nov 20, 2014)

Bowie said:


> I am so sick of all the people saying nobody created God. If God is in fact real, I'd be curious as to how he originated. I wouldn't be happy with him saying that he created himself out of thin air and that's the end of it. That's impossible. His universe must have been created by someone or something, and how did that someone or something originate? I think these questions are important to answer, and it almost seems like a lot of Christians just want to dismiss them because there aren't any answers.



As my French teacher says when this kids brings up paradoxes (or the question above "Can God create something he cannot lift?"), it's just something we don't understand yet.  We don't have enough knowledge to answer the question.  I love thinking how He came to be, although I usually get mad because I look up my thoughts and it's nothing :c


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## NikkiNikki (Nov 20, 2014)

Bowie said:


> I am so sick of all the people saying nobody created God. If God is in fact real, I'd be curious as to how he originated. I wouldn't be happy with him saying that he created himself out of thin air and that's the end of it. That's impossible. His universe must have been created by someone or something, and how did that someone or something originate? I think these questions are important to answer, and it almost seems like a lot of Christians just want to dismiss them because there aren't any answers.


God is God. Even if we did know where he originated then the same question will be ask who made that person who made God?


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## unintentional (Nov 20, 2014)

NikkiNikki said:


> God is God. Even if we did know where he originated then the same question will be ask who made that person who made God?



Who says a person made God?  We simply don't have the understanding of the world before everything to answer the question.


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## NikkiNikki (Nov 20, 2014)

Saint_Jimmy said:


> Who says a person made God?  We simply don't have the understanding of the world before everything to answer the question.



Exactly, sorry I am on a phone. The forum layout on mobile is a bit sucky.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 20, 2014)

Personally, I think any belief worth having is worth challenging. It is ok to believe in something, but you need to put your beliefs to the test and find out WHY you believe in them. I have seen physical evidence of both evolution (fossils, etc.) and biblical accounts (various skeletons found at the bottom of the Red Sea, various written accounts outside the Bible, ect.). If the world can prove either side definitively; then that is what it is. In the meantime, we are left with theories.


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## Bowie (Nov 20, 2014)

NikkiNikki said:


> God is God. Even if we did know where he originated then the same question will be ask who made that person who made God?



Well, exactly. It would be unnatural for us not to. God isn't just God, though. We don't know anything about him. I'd be happy to have a drink with him sometime, though. I would love to know how he feels about all this nonsense. I wonder if his parents are proud of him, or if he won that contest for Best Planet at school.


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## Nanobyte (Nov 20, 2014)

I'm a Mormon, though I probably come off as an agnostic if you don't know me. I really need to read my book of mormon more

- - - Post Merge - - -



Bowie said:


> I wonder if his parents are proud of him, or if he won that contest for Best Planet at school.



WHY IS THIS FUNNY
WHY


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## Melina (Nov 20, 2014)

I believe in God, but I don't go to church and I've never read the bible. I just believe there's a higher up.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 20, 2014)

Don't feel guilty. If you want to read your Book of Mormon more; than read it more. If not; than don't. Do what you believe in; conform to YOUR beliefs.

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Melina said:


> I believe in God, but I don't go to church and I've never read the bible. I just believe there's a higher up.



That's fine. That is how many people are. Church attendance and reading the Bible are not required for salvation as far as I know. The only requirement I know of is found in John 3:16 of the New Testament in the Bible. Of course: this is the Christian belief. There are many other beliefs out there that may be right. Heck; all of them may be right. Maybe we all go to the same place regardless of beliefs. I cannot truly say one way or the other since I have never been there.


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## Bowie (Nov 20, 2014)

Nanobyte said:


> WHY IS THIS FUNNY
> WHY



Well, it's true! There are just so many things I can think of. What about that tree he planted? Did it grow to anything or did it just die? Does he hate his neighbours? Does he get bullied at school? What's his favourite song? Is he gay? These are the kind of questions I'd ask if I had the chance. God sounds like a decent lad, or maybe even a girl.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 20, 2014)

Bowie said:


> Well, it's true! There are just so many things I can think of. What about that tree he planted? Did it grow to anything or did it just die? Does he hate his neighbours? Does he get bullied at school? What's his favourite song? Is he gay? These are the kind of questions I'd ask if I had the chance. God sounds like a decent lad, or maybe even a girl.



I would love to talk to God! I want to find out why He does what He does and what He (or She) is like. Now all I can think about is playing Ping-Pong with God!


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## #1 Senpai (Nov 20, 2014)

Bowie said:


> I am so sick of all the people saying nobody created God. If God is in fact real, I'd be curious as to how he originated. I wouldn't be happy with him saying that he created himself out of thin air and that's the end of it. That's impossible. His universe must have been created by someone or something, and how did that someone or something originate? I think these questions are important to answer, and it almost seems like a lot of Christians just want to dismiss them because there aren't any answers.




THIS THIS THIS. I swear.

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All the answers these Christians are giving us from the bible..lol and idk why I find it so funny.
Most of the things in the bible seem so impossible.


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## Danielkang2 (Nov 21, 2014)

Saint_Jimmy said:


> "Yes it is sad that children and adults pass away from cancer and disease, but those who remain learn that we can go at any time and that we should learn from what the deceased taught us."
> "Cancer is a consequence of sin. Which is what we inflicted on ourselves." (the consequence here, being death usually in younger kids and the elderly, is a punishment.)
> 
> Taken from MrPuzzleMan (and Danielkang2), which is who I was talking to.
> ...



Ok, here are my rebuttals. If natural selection were true, Eskimos would have fur to keep warm, but they don't. They are just as hairless as everyone else. If natural selection were true, humans in the tropics would have silver, reflective skin to help them keep cool, but they don't. They have black skin, just the opposite of what the theory of natural selection would predict.

His famous book, On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, has a title that is now known to be scientifically false. New species cannot evolve by natural selection. Modern scientific discoveries are proving evolution to be impossible. No new scientific discoveries have been found to support the Theory of Evolution.
They are taught that if given enough time, a monkey at a typewriter could punch keys at random and eventually type President's Abraham Lincoln Gettysburg Address. This is nonsense.

Time does not make impossible things possible. As an example, a computer was programmed in an attempt to arrive at the simple 26-letter alphabet. After 35,000,000,000,000 (35 trillion) attempts it has only arrived at 14 letters correctly.

What are the odds that a simple single cell organism could evolve given the complexity of more than 60,000 proteins of 100 different configurations all in the correct places? Never in eternity! Time does not make impossible things possible. 


One of the best examples of evolution nonsense is the thought that a wingless bird began to evolve a wing. Why this would occur is not answered by evolutionists. The wing stub did not make the bird more adaptable to his environment. The first wing stubs would be much too small for the bird to fly.

Why would a bird evolve wing stubs that are useless? This is backwards from the evolutionary theory of natural selection, which states that birds adapt and change in order to survive better in their environment. The bird with a half-size wing is placed at a disadvantage in its environment.

Why would the bird continue for millions of generations to improve a wing stub that is useless? The Theory of Evolution is based on natural selection of the most adaptable member of a species, not the weakest. A bird with a useless wing is at a severe disadvantage. This is the opposite of natural selection.

According to natural selection, the members of the bird species with the smallest useless wing would be the most adaptable and most likely to survive in the largest numbers. According to the theory of natural selection birds could never evolve to fly.

We are then led to believe that some birds got tired of carrying around a worthless half-size wing, so they grew fingers on the end to help climb trees. The wings became arms and a new species was developed.
The "Living Fossil" Fish Proves Evolution is Wrong

The Coelacanth fish was touted to be a transitional form with half-formed legs and primitive lungs, ready to transition onto land. This myth was exploded in December, 1938 when a live Coelacanth was caught in a fisherman's net off the eastern coast of South Africa. It is now known that the natives of the Comoro Islands had been catching and eating the fish for years.


It did not have half-formed legs or primitive lungs. It was simply a regular fish that people thought was extinct. Evolutionist claimed the 350 million-year-old Coelacanth evolved into animals with legs, feet, and lungs.

This not the case. We now see that the fish recently caught is exactly like the 350 million-year-old fossil. It did not evolve at all.

The Coelacanth is a star witness against the false theory of evolution. After 350 million years, the fish still doesn't have a leg to stand on.
The Archaeopteryx fossil was herald by evolutionists as a significant transitional missing link. The fossil was discovered in a limestone quarry in southern Germany in 1861 and has been debated ever since.

The dinosaur creature appears to be a reptile with bird characteristics of wings and feathers. It had the skeleton of a small dinosaur with a tail, fingers with claws on the leading edge of the wing, and teeth in the jaws.

The owners of the property discovered six fossils of which only two had feathers. This inconsistency smells of fraud from the beginning. Upon close examination the feathers appear to be identical to modern chicken feathers. 

The Archaeopteryx fossils with feathers have now been declared forgeries by scientists. "Allegedly, thin layers of cement were spread on two fossils of a chicken-size dinosaur, called Compsognathus. Bird feathers were then imprinted into the wet cement" -
The Platypus (Ornithorhynchus anatinus), with its duck bill and webbed feet, is a unique Australian animal. It and the two species of echidna are the only monotremes or egg-laying mammals to be found on earth.

The marsupials (mammals with pouches, e.g. kangaroos) and eutherians (placental mammals that give birth to well-developed young, e.g. humans) both give birth to live young.

The monotremes have lower body temperatures than other mammals and have legs which extend out, then vertically below them. These features, together with their egg-laying ability, are more like that of a lizard than a mammal. Platypus are readily identified by their streamlined body, webbed feet, broad tail, and characteristic muzzle or bill which is soft and pliable.
The Platypus males have spurs on their hind feet that deliver a poisonous venom like a snake. A Platypus sting is powerful enough to make people sick and kill a dog.

The Platypus of Australia has characteristics of many species but certainly is not the missing link to all of them. In fact, it is not a link to any of them. The Platypus has made a joke of Charles Darwin's theory of evolution and his unproven theory of natural selection.
This is all solely scientific evidence which proves evolution is flawed and incorrect. You guys told me you did not want to see info from the bible as you deem it is flawed but this is a hindrance to me as it is the ultimate truth and is the only book that is absolute.

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These are ten examples of evidence found in the bible.

. The earth free-floats in space (Job 26:7), affected only by gravity. While other sources declared the earth sat on the back of an elephant or turtle, or was held up by Atlas, the Bible alone states what we now know to be true - "He hangs the earth on nothing."

2. The Bible specifies the perfect dimensions for a stable water vessel (Genesis 6:15). Ship builders today are well aware that the ideal dimension for ship stability is a length six times that of the width. Keep in mind, God told Noah the ideal dimensions for the ark 4,500 years ago.

3. Oceans contain springs (Job 38:16). The ocean is very deep. Almost all the ocean floor is in total darkness and the pressure there is enormous. It would have been impossible for Job to have explored the "springs of the sea." Until recently, it was thought that oceans were fed only by rivers and rain. Yet in the 1970s, with the help of deep diving research submarines that were constructed to withstand 6,000 pounds-per-square-inch pressure, oceanographers discovered springs on the ocean floors!


4. There are mountains on the bottom of the ocean floor (Jonah 2:5-6). Only in the last century have we discovered that there are towering mountains and deep trenches in the depths of the sea.

5. Joy and gladness understood (Acts 14:17). Evolution cannot explain emotions. Matter and energy do not feel. Scripture explains that God places gladness in our hearts (Psalm 4:7), and ultimate joy is found only in our Creator's presence - "in Your presence is fullness of joy" (Psalm 16:11).

6. Which came first, proteins or DNA (Revelation 4:11)? For evolutionists, the chicken or egg dilemma goes even deeper. Chickens consist of proteins. The code for each protein is contained in the DNA/RNA system. However, proteins are required in order to manufacture DNA. So which came first: proteins or DNA? The ONLY explanation is that they were created together.

7. The universe had a beginning (Genesis 1:1; Hebrews 1:10-12). Starting with the studies of Albert Einstein in the early 1900s and continuing today, science has confirmed the biblical view that the universe had a beginning. When the Bible was written most people believed the universe was eternal. Science has proven them wrong, but the Bible correct.

8. Light can be divided (Job 38:24). Sir Isaac Newton studied light and discovered that white light is made of seven colors, which can be "parted" and then recombined. Science confirmed this four centuries ago - God declared this four millennia ago.

9. Incalculable number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22). At a time when less than 5,000 stars were visible to the human eye, God stated that the stars of heaven were innumerable. Not until the 17th century did Galileo glimpse the immensity of our universe with his new telescope. Today, astronomers estimate that there are ten thousand billion trillion stars - that's a 1 followed by 25 zeros! Yet, as the Bible states, scientists admit this number may be woefully inadequate.

10. Animal and plant extinction explained (Jeremiah 12:4; Hosea 4:3). According to evolution, occasionally we should witness a new kind springing into existence. Yet, this has never been observed. On the contrary, as Scripture explains, since the curse on all creation, we observe death and extinction (Romans 8:20-22).

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I am going to tell you right now this is not solely evidence from me it is research. Some of this is my work.


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## Brackets (Nov 21, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> snip



Ok well I'm no expert on evolution but I find it fascinating so will do my best to answer this.
Eskimos don't have fur to keep warm because they didn't need to evolve fur. Humans have the advantage in that we're intelligent - we can make clothes and fires to keep us warm. Therefore, no one is dying from cold, therefore there's no selection pressure.
Black skin is not the opposite of what evolution would want - black skin is much better for living in a hot country. It's not often you see a black person get sunburnt is it? Whereas white people can often get sunburnt. 

I too, became a bit skeptical of evolution when I thought about the wings thing. But I did some reading, and apparently insects might have developed 'flapping' gills to help them skim across the water, and over time these developed into wings.
Dinosaurs may have started developing downy feathers to keep them warm, and then might have started to use the aerodynamic properties of feathers to run faster. They might have also used their tiny stub wings to help them run uphill or help them climb trees - many birds still use this technique.


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## Danielkang2 (Nov 21, 2014)

Annachie said:


> Ok well I'm no expert on evolution but I find it fascinating so will do my best to answer this.
> Eskimos don't have fur to keep warm because they didn't need to evolve fur. Humans have the advantage in that we're intelligent - we can make clothes and fires to keep us warm. Therefore, no one is dying from cold, therefore there's no selection pressure.
> Black skin is not the opposite of what evolution would want - black skin is much better for living in a hot country. It's not often you see a black person get sunburnt is it? Whereas white people can often get sunburnt.
> 
> ...



Will try to answer these but first do you have any remarks on how the Coelacanth and the platypus correlates with evolution?

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Big Bang:
    It violates the first law of thermodynamics, which says you can't create or destroy matter or energy. Critics claim that the big bang theory suggests the universe began out of nothing. Proponents of the big bang theory say that such criticism is unwarranted for two reasons. The first is that the big bang doesn't address the creation of the universe, but rather the evolution of it. The other reason is that since the laws of science break down as you approach the creation of the universe, there's no reason to believe the first law of thermodynamics would apply.

    Some critics say that the formation of stars and galaxies violates the law of entropy, which suggests systems of change become less organized over time. But if you view the early universe as completely homogeneous and isotropic, then the current universe shows signs of obeying the law of entropy.

    Some astrophysicists and cosmologists argue that scientists have misinterpreted evidence like the redshift of celestial bodies and the cosmic microwave background radiation. Some cite the absence of exotic cosmic bodies that should have been the product of the big bang according to the theory.

    The early inflationary period of the big bang appears to violate the rule that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. Proponents have a few different responses to this criticism. One is that at the start of the big bang, the theory of relativity didn't apply. As a result, there was no issue with traveling faster than the speed of light. Another related response is that space itself can expand faster than the speed of light, as space falls outside the domain of the theory of gravity.

There are several alternative models that attempt to explain the development of the universe, though none of them have as wide an acceptance as the big bang theory:

    The steady-state model of the universe suggests the universe always had and will always have the same density. The theory reconciles the apparent evidence that the universe is expanding by suggesting that the universe generates matter at a rate proportionate to the universe's rate of expansion.

    The Ekpyrotic model suggests our universe is the result of a collision of two three-dimensional worlds on a hidden fourth dimension. It doesn't conflict with the big bang theory completely, as after a certain amount of time it aligns with the events described in the big bang theory.

    The big bounce theory suggests our universe is one of a series of universes that first expand, then contract again. The cycle repeats after several billion years.

    Plasma cosmology attempts to describe the universe in terms of the electrodynamic properties of the universe. Plasma is an ionized gas, which means it's a gas with free roaming electrons that can conduct electricity.


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## Brackets (Nov 21, 2014)

Wait was all that Big Bang stuff directed at me? We were talking about evolution, are you going to reply to my answers or did you just not think of an argument so went on about the Big Bang instead? 
I'll try answer about the coelacanth later but Ill admit I don't know much about that part of evolution


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## KarlaKGB (Nov 21, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> Will try to answer these but first do you have any remarks on how the Coelacanth and the platypus correlates with evolution?
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



do u even know wat ur talking about?

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Danielkang2 said:


> Ok, here are my rebuttals. If natural selection were true, Eskimos would have fur to keep warm, but they don't. They are just as hairless as everyone else. If natural selection were true, humans in the tropics would have silver, reflective skin to help them keep cool, but they don't. They have black skin, just the opposite of what the theory of natural selection would predict.


humans cannot naturally evolve anymore, we have reached a point where our interaction with technology has removed the need for evolution.

if natural selection is false as u claim, then explain y viruses can mutate? r u saying that fears that bird flu can mutate into an airborne pathogen capable of human-human transmission r completely unfounded because natural selection is false?

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i thought ur posting was highly unusual for a 12 year old. turns out i was correct.

u really shudnt just copy paste ur drivel from

http://www.biblelife.org/evolution.htm


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## Danielkang2 (Nov 21, 2014)

I told you that wasn't my information.


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## KarlaKGB (Nov 21, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> I told you that wasn't my information.



so by research u mean u just copy pasted word for word from a website

ok


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## Punchy-kun (Nov 21, 2014)

Callaway said:


> I believe I shall pick this apart one section at a time because wow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I believe that he meant, but probably worded it wrong that things like cancer are because of sin. Not because of the person itself, but because of the sin of mankind. Because we're imperfect. Pretty much because of the curse mankind put upon itself when it first sinned. 
Mostly cancer and other sicknesses aren't because of sin, however certain sicknesses, such as AIDS are much more common with homosexuals, and that's where I disagree with what you call mistranslated in the Bible. It's very clear that the Bible is against it, and the New Testament it mentions the part saying that homosexuals will get in themselves the reward of their actions. And I'm positive it's talking about AIDS. 

And well even if every verse against homosexuality was taken out of the Bible, it'd still be obvious it's wrong, because the Bible ONLY talks about straight relationships. And God defined marriage in the beginning between a man and a woman. If homosexuality was ok for God I'm sure He would have added verses that talk about it in a good way, and would have mentioned that one man and one man, or one woman and one woman can become one flesh. However, He didn't. Nor did Jesus when He quoted that in the New Testament.

Now, before you judge me, I don't hate homosexuals. I also don't hate people who divorce&remarry(also a sin). I don't hate people who commit abortions, etc. But are these things sins? Absolutely. But everyone is a sinner, even Christians are. To hate someone because of their sin would be hypocritical and wrong. But we do hate the sin itself. As a Christian you have to, for if you don't hate your sin you cannot turn from it, as you should. But besides turning from our sin, we still need a God who is willing to forgive us. He doesn't have to but this is where he shows his love for us. He died Himself(for Jesus IS God) so to pay the price for our sins. So that people could be forgiven. 

God did this out of love for us. Not because he accepts the sin we do. He hates it. And so if we love God we too will hate it, and turn from it and be forgiven. And I wish for every sinner to do the same. Not because I hate them, but because I wish them the best.


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## Lio Fotia (Nov 21, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> Will try to answer these but first do you have any remarks on how the Coelacanth and the platypus correlates with evolution?
> 
> Big Bang:
> It violates the first law of thermodynamics, which says you can't create or destroy matter or energy. Critics claim that the big bang theory suggests the universe began out of nothing. Proponents of the big bang theory say that such criticism is unwarranted for two reasons. The first is that the big bang doesn't address the creation of the universe, but rather the evolution of it. The other reason is that since the laws of science break down as you approach the creation of the universe, there's no reason to believe the first law of thermodynamics would apply.
> ...



First off, Congrats. You don't understand the Big Bang at all.

Laws were written after the big bang, there was chaos and insanity after the fact, and ignoring the fact that the Big Bang was PROVEN FACT this year. But I won't pick apart this post. It's to early to *****. HOWEVER

*I love how your entire argument is COMPLETELY plagiarized from HERE*

Maybe come up with your own arguments, honey.


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## nammie (Nov 21, 2014)

I think if you're a good person overall you'll end up ok no matter what you believe in.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 21, 2014)

nammie said:


> I think if you're a good person overall you'll end up ok no matter what you believe in.



I think that is true as well. I don't think salvation is necessarily tied to one belief system or another.


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## Mino (Nov 21, 2014)

If you guys don't stop fighting, I swear I will turn this thread around.

Turn it right around and make it be about Bj?rk. Then you'll just have to deal.


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## Punchy-kun (Nov 21, 2014)

nammie said:


> I think if you're a good person overall you'll end up ok no matter what you believe in.



By what standard of goodness though? I would make sense that it would be God's standards, and we definitely fall short on that sooooo...

I know it sounds nice and easy when you say it the way you are, but I honestly don't think it will save you :/


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## Han Solo (Nov 21, 2014)

Atheist. 

Living in the bible belt sure is interesting haha.


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## Reindeer (Nov 21, 2014)

Punchy-kun said:


> By what standard of goodness though? I would make sense that it would be God's standards, and we definitely fall short on that sooooo...
> 
> I know it sounds nice and easy when you say it the way you are, but I honestly don't think it will save you :/


Why does it have to be the standards of any god? I don't believe in anything, and I still don't act like a ****. I don't need some belief in a deity to be a good person.

And if that's going to be your argument, what about the people in the world that do believe in a god yet will go around acting like *******s because they believe they will get into paradise anyway? That's not really following the standards if you ask me.

It doesn't matter if you're Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Mormon, Buddhist, Atheist, etc. If you're gonna act like a **** then your personal morals are what's wrong, not your (lack of) faith.


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## Brackets (Nov 21, 2014)

Punchy-kun said:


> By what standard of goodness though? I would make sense that it would be God's standards, and we definitely fall short on that sooooo...
> 
> I know it sounds nice and easy when you say it the way you are, but I honestly don't think it will save you :/



Why can't people realise their own standards of goodness? This is a thing that worries me about some religious people, that they think they couldn't be good without a freaking book telling them how to be. I can be a good person without God's standards, thanks! 

And if God will send me to hell for being an atheist, or for having casual sex, and ignore the fact that I'm working hard for 5 years to become a doctor to help other people, then he should just get his priorities right. And like HELL I would worship someone with those kindof standards anyway.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 21, 2014)

Socrates asked a similar question: What is pious? I forget the name of the man, but Socrates went to this man because he was supposed to be the most pious (holy) man in the realm. Socrates was being executed for impiety (unholiness) and wanted to know exactly what was holy. The man could not answer without using circular reasoning. Socrates ended up being executed for something no none truly understood.


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## Brackets (Nov 21, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> I told you that wasn't my information.



You should reference it then.


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## bijou (Nov 21, 2014)

i am a very spiritual atheist witch. i do not believe in a god or goddess or deity, but i do believe in the loveliness in the earth and positive vibes and spells and potions. i am happiest when putting my belief in myself and my abilities, and also in celebrating life through many different mediums. i grew up in a roman catholic household who are not very accepting of my beliefs, which is okay. i am happy!


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## cIementine (Nov 21, 2014)

I don't believe in God, and I prefer to think that the big bang and evolution and the science side of the world is real instead of the religious side.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 21, 2014)

pumpkins said:


> I don't believe in God, and I prefer to think that the big bang and evolution and the science side of the world is real instead of the religious side.



And that is fine. What you believe in is what is important to you. Do not let anyone tell you what you believe in is right or wrong.


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## nammie (Nov 21, 2014)

Punchy-kun said:


> By what standard of goodness though? I would make sense that it would be God's standards, and we definitely fall short on that sooooo...
> 
> I know it sounds nice and easy when you say it the way you are, but I honestly don't think it will save you :/



??? if you need a book to tell you how to be a good person then I don't know what to say to you.
don't be an ******* in life and I'm sure whatever happens after death you'll end up fine? that's what I believe anyways. like other people have said I don't think salvation depends on what religion you believe in.


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## Envelin (Nov 21, 2014)

Christian.

However strongly supportive of:

-Homosexuality
-Masturbation
-Abortion(to some extent)
-Evolution

I believe that if you have good morality, you get what you want in the end, no matter the religion, coming from my acceptance in belief in coexisting.


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## Animalcrossingtrader (Nov 21, 2014)

I am Christian
I believe in God, that he created the world, That I'm going to heaven, that's he's coming back, and so forth
I was born into this 
Not forced into it. 
All of my family is Christian except for my cousins(Jehovah Witnesses)
I firmly believe in my beliefs, you don't have to
( I don't mean to sound all spiritual, and stuff)
And................
Yep that's about it.


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## VillagerBoyDreams (Nov 21, 2014)

Yui Z said:


> Oh hi I just wanted to drop by because I like your thinking, so umm hello. I thought I'd give this a shot because you bring up some good points that made me want to respond. =P *Long, thought-out post alert*
> 
> Firstly, most of your questions or thoughts are basically wondering why there's evil in our world if there's really an "omnipotent" God as you say. I agree. The world is pretty screwed up. Satan, also known as Lucifer before he became a fallen angel, came to kill, steal and destroy in this world. He was jealous of God and wanted to become as powerful as him if I remembered correctly.
> 
> ...



Yes, nice thinking, I like it when people can respond in this manner, as opposed to saying he said so and BAM! There was a universe, cuz screw logic, am I right?
Thanks for the food for the thought, and avoiding the response of flat-out saying, "screw your thinking, God is right and this is why", but yes, good thinking, I may have to read this Bible, atleast the first few pages or so, it seems I may have mis-interpreted some of it, however, science is just the nature of me primarily.
For people who kind of think the way I do in terms of religion I recently discovered a religion that is kind of like my idea, read up on it, it's fairly logical and more nice controversial food for your thoughts.
The religion is called: Theistic Evolution


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)

I believe that there is no superior being that reins over everybody. Wake up, people. There are no gods. As nice as it is to delude yourself into thinking that there's an "after life" after death, it's just simply too childish for me hop on the bandwagon. Sorry.


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## M O L K O (Nov 21, 2014)

Mino said:


> If you guys don't stop fighting, I swear I will turn this thread around.
> 
> Turn it right around and make it be about Bj?rk. Then you'll just have to deal.



pls do this. 

Honestly I'm more concerned about whats going on on earth then how earth came to be (if that makes sense.)
I believe in some sort of deity but a lot of the religion thing just sounds...off to me. So idk, if god happens to be the one thats in the bible i'll just be at heaven gates like ?＼_(ツ)_/? i ****ed up bro


also debut >>>


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## Animalcrossingtrader (Nov 21, 2014)

There is so bandwagon, and im wide awake, if you choose not to believe in something, that doesn't mean you have insult everyone Else who does


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)

Animalcrossingtrader said:


> There is so bandwagon, and im wide awake, if you choose not to believe in something, that doesn't mean you have insult everyone Else who does



How is what I wrote in any shape or form insulting anybody? Lol...
Have you even thought how religion looks from an atheist's perspective? 
Stating that I don't want to place my hope in a made up story that I find childish isn't insulting anybody.


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## epona (Nov 21, 2014)

i was raised a christian but i never really liked the whole organised religion thing, i mean i think i believe in god to an extent because i find myself praying to someone or something when i'm in a really difficult situation but i don't know if it's god in the traditional christian sense of the word
i stopped going to church when i was about 13 because i didn't like the fact that catholicism was telling me not just that i should believe in god but also _how_ i should believe in god and what was the right way to believe in and worship god, and i just wasn't comfortable with that, i guess maybe because i've always seen god and stuff as a personal thing that each individual finds a different meaning in than something that people can make up rules for and dictate

i really love the ideaology behind buddhism and i'd love to learn more about it in the future, i just think it's really cool and nice and stuff


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)

I was raised a christian as well. Only as I got older I grew to realise that Christianity is based on false claims. Especially the one about there being a heaven and a hell.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 21, 2014)

Jarrad said:


> I believe that there is no superior being that reins over everybody. Wake up, people. There are no gods. As nice as it is to delude yourself into thinking that there's an "after life" after death, it's just simply too childish for me hop on the bandwagon. Sorry.



Your beliefs are your beliefs, but please respect the beliefs of those here and the civil nature of this conversation or please do not post on this thread. Voicing your beliefs if one thing, but to insult everyone who doesn't conform to your beliefs is another thing entirely.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Jarrad said:


> How is what I wrote in any shape or form insulting anybody? Lol...
> Have you even thought how religion looks from an atheist's perspective?
> Stating that I don't want to place my hope in a made up story that I find childish isn't insulting anybody.



You were insulting in that you called all people here who believed in "a higher power" delusional.


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)

MrPuzzleMan said:


> Your beliefs are your beliefs, but please respect the beliefs of those here and the civil nature of this conversation or please do not post on this thread. Voicing your beliefs if one thing, but to insult everyone who doesn't conform to your beliefs is another thing entirely.



"to insult everyone who doesn't conform to your beliefs" swear this is like the epitome of being a Christian lol 
I've had bad experiences of religion, mainly from people trying to force beliefs down my throat. I've formed a strong intolerance for religion, so I apologise if anything that I've wrote has indeed been offensive.

But what I wrote isn't exactly a lie.


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## Animalcrossingtrader (Nov 21, 2014)

You did say"to delude your self to thinking"  I am not deluding my self to anything. I might, no it probably is only me but I find it insulting, and I'm stating that fact, and your right I have no idea what it looks like from an atheist perspective, because I'm not one, I don't understand how you can believe "science" when it's just "studies" that give you facts. But it's not my place to tell or ask you anything, so I'm sorry.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 21, 2014)

Unfortunately, yes. That is what many view Christians as, narrow-minded, hateful people. Many are too blinded by dogma to see that they have become more focused on hurting others than helping others and accepting them. Many others are not like this, but that is hard to see when you have various groups who claim to be Christian whilst protesting funerals. I am not trying to defend religion; I am trying to keep this thread from starting into a flame war.


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## Jarrad (Nov 21, 2014)

Animalcrossingtrader said:


> You did say"to delude your self to thinking"  I am not deluding my self to anything. I might, no it probably is only me but I find it insulting, and I'm stating that fact, and your right I have no idea what it looks like from an atheist perspective, because I'm not one, I don't understand how you can believe "science" when it's just "studies" that give you facts. But it's not my place to tell or ask you anything, so I'm sorry.



None of my post was personally directed towards you. Yes, you're a christian, so you somewhat fall under the demographic that I was speaking of, however I wasn't insinuating that _you_ are deluded. I am stating that I simply cannot delude _mysef_ into thinking that there is a god, as I simply believe that there isn't one. If you feel as though I have insulted you, then that's your problem for letting yourself become offended by what I have said.

Science delivers the truth, that's why I place my hope into it. Whereas religion delivers nothing but tales of superior beings. It's completely your place to tell or ask me anything. This is a forum, not a funeral lol


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 21, 2014)

You are very true in saying that science answers many things and provides physical evidence to back its theories up, but it fails to answer a couple questions. An example is this; recently a satellite scanned a comet and found the basis of life on it. Hypothetically; this could mean that life originated from another world. What this fails to answer is how that life was created. By life I mean the actual processes involved with living (energy, breathing, consciousness, etc.). I am just saying that there are some things that cannot be explained by science yet.


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## Animalcrossingtrader (Nov 21, 2014)

Ok


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## Brackets (Nov 21, 2014)

Animalcrossingtrader said:


> You did say"to delude your self to thinking"  I am not deluding my self to anything. I might, no it probably is only me but I find it insulting, and I'm stating that fact, and your right I have no idea what it looks like from an atheist perspective, because I'm not one, I don't understand how you can believe "science" when it's just "studies" that give you facts. But it's not my place to tell or ask you anything, so I'm sorry.



There seems to be a misunderstanding with a lot of people that atheism = science. Well, it doesn't. Just because you're an atheist doesn't mean you're obsessed with science, I know plenty of atheists who don't give a damn about science. Similarly, just because you're religious doesn't mean you don't 'believe' in science.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 21, 2014)

I personally think that science supports religion and vice versa.


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## Watchingthetreetops (Nov 21, 2014)

MrPuzzleMan said:


> I personally think that science supports religion and vice versa.



Agreed


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## Danielkang2 (Nov 21, 2014)

quoted someone's elses post.


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## unintentional (Nov 21, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> These are ten examples of evidence found in the bible.
> 
> . The earth free-floats in space (Job 26:7), affected only by gravity. While other sources declared the earth sat on the back of an elephant or turtle, or was held up by Atlas, the Bible alone states what we now know to be true - "He hangs the earth on nothing."
> 
> ...



Are you  aware the dinosaurs coming before us is the kind youre talking about?  There has been COUNTLESS new fish found.  You're quoting the bible in an argument that has been proven by scientists.


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## Danielkang2 (Nov 21, 2014)

Saint_Jimmy said:


> Are you  aware the dinosaurs coming before us is the kind youre talking about?  There has been COUNTLESS new fish found.  You're quoting the bible in an argument that has been proven by scientists.


First off science CANNOT prove anything. There are no absolutes in science. So everyone that says whatever they're talking about was made PROVEN FACT by science is wrong. Please tell me which statement you're dinosaur argument is about.

- - - Post Merge - - -
I feel very bad for all the horrible things that had happened to your family and I understand why you are hardened on the topic of religion... You feel that religion has done you no good but harm... But the ill giving fact is this world is corrupted and we don't see the whole picture. God does. Your mother and grandmother are very honorable people and from what I see I think that they are devoted christians. God is righteous. I've seen many missionaries who have died to spread the faith and help people in need... But if there was a god who was righteous and true which I believe I am sure that your grandmothers are in eternal paradise with god himself but if there is no god there would have been no meaning to the acts that your grandmothers and the millions of people have done. It would have been for nothing. 
Accepting god is a choice, and your grandmothers have accepted and went to the point of death to serve our loving god. Know that your grandmothers dieing of cancer was not because god did not love them. 

"The wonderful thing is that, even though in this life on the cursed earth we are subject to diseases like cancer, we have hope. Psalm 103 has a wonderful passage that gives us a confident assurance that there will be an end to the ills of this world. Psalm 103:1–4 says, “Praise the LORD, O my soul; all my inmost being, praise his holy name. Praise the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits—who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases, who redeems your life from the pit and crowns you with love and compassion.”

Does this passage mean that we are guaranteed that God will heal us of cancer or other diseases in this life? No, that is not the meaning of this passage. Rather, the same God who forgives us our sin will one day bring us to a place He has prepared for us (Matthew 25:34). His redemption preserves us from destruction, and then there will be no more curse and no more disease and no more death, and we will be forever crowned with His goodness and grace. The final victory over the curse of sin is already ours in Christ."
http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-cancer.html#ixzz3JkwZVKOd
This is another very good source. http://www.gotquestions.org/God-allow-sickness.html
Your mothers knew there was a worthwhile cause that was worth the blood, toil, tears and sweat they have gone through and saw what was after death. I respect them very much...


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## unravel (Nov 21, 2014)

I expect for war about religion again


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## #1 Senpai (Nov 21, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> First off science CANNOT prove anything. There are no absolutes in science. So everyone that says whatever they're talking about was made PROVEN FACT by science is wrong. Please tell me which statement you're dinosaur argument is about.



Uhh, I don't think so..
"3. There is no question that moon rotates around the earth and earth around the sun. " 
"9. Whereas certain diseases are caused by viruses, some others are caused by
bacteria."
Science can prove things. lol

- - - Post Merge - - -



ITookYourWaffles said:


> I expect for war about religion again



me 2.


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## Danielkang2 (Nov 21, 2014)

#1 Senpai said:


> Uhh, I don't think so..
> "3. There is no question that moon rotates around the earth and earth around the sun. "
> "9. Whereas certain diseases are caused by viruses, some others are caused by
> bacteria."
> ...


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## Lio Fotia (Nov 21, 2014)

I think at this point, Daniel is just grasping at straws and it's best to ignore him at this point because such blind faith to the point of ignoring the basics of life are, at this point, hilarity. I mean, if dinosaurs didn't exist, then how do we have petrol? I mean, the proof is all around us and if someone will ignore facts for a book older than all of us, and then only follow just a small portion of said book, then they are beyond help, and will refuse reason and science. What he fails to seem to understand is the his reasons and words are the reason a lot of people have turned their back on the faith and on the people who follow it. It's almost a cult like adoration, and it's beyond help.

God works in mysterious ways, what Daniel has yet to consider, which I did back when I was christian, is that maybe science is how God works things and that the people who wrote the bible described everything as best as they could, with their limited understanding of what they saw and what they were shown. I dunno, but I do know at this point arguing with such blindness is like throwing a pie at a wall and expecting a hole to appear. It won't happen. 

This is the last post I will post here, but I need to say-- continuing to engage a zealot will do nothing but cause needless strife and a religion war no one wants here.

*EDIT:* Besides someone who has to copy/paste their arguments from other websites has no real argument, especially when they use advanced physics in their arguments that goes against their religion from an article posted in 2012. Needless to say, he's arming himself blindly and not really understanding his arguments himself. Besides. he's 12. What he says now and what he'll say in ten years when he starts to experience the real world for a change very well might change. Pay him no heed.


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## Danielkang2 (Nov 21, 2014)

I never said dinosaurs didn't exist...

- - - Post Merge - - -

If none of what I say is any influence to anyone then there is no reason for me to post anymore thanks.


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## NikkiNikki (Nov 21, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> -snip-



I have try my best not to post on here, but Daniel please, just stop and get an understanding of science and the word of God before you start posting. Just stop.

Also Callaway, You have an amazing mother and grandmother God bless their souls; they have my respect. <3


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## Bowie (Nov 21, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> I never said dinosaurs didn't exist...



Well, of course they don't exist. Science can't prove anything, right?


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## Danielkang2 (Nov 21, 2014)

Bowie said:


> Well, of course they don't exist. Science can't prove anything, right?


I said there are no absolutes as scientific theorys will always change and the things we are sure of this day and age will change when time goes on.

- - - Post Merge - - -

You should say Dinosaurs "may" exist.


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## Bowie (Nov 21, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> You should say Dinosaurs "may" exist.



There are skeletons, honey. The existence of dinosaurs isn't a theory.


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## Danielkang2 (Nov 22, 2014)

Bowie said:


> There are skeletons, honey. The existence of dinosaurs isn't a theory.



Anything that we take to be true is revisable
All truths are a matter of opinion
Truth is relative 
There is nothing more to truth than what we are willing to assert as true


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## Bowie (Nov 22, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> Anything that we take to be true is revisable
> All truths are a matter of opinion
> Truth is relative
> There is nothing more to truth than what we are willing to assert as true



You're right. I'm going to go to a graveyard and dig everyone up and call the skeletons a matter of opinion.


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## Danielkang2 (Nov 22, 2014)

Ok


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## M O L K O (Nov 22, 2014)

Bowie said:


> You're right. I'm going to go to a graveyard and dig everyone up and call the skeletons a matter of opinion.



tbt has no chill tonight and I ****in love it.

OT: I dunno how the thread got derail to dinos but my belief is that the land after time was v sad.


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## #1 Senpai (Nov 22, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> Ok



I thought you have no reason to post, yet here you are. lol


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## JellyDitto (Nov 22, 2014)

Atheist, but I believe that people should believe what they want to believe and no one should tell them otherwise.


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## RayOfHope (Nov 22, 2014)

Callaway said:


> God works in mysterious ways, what Daniel has yet to consider, which I did back when I was christian, is that maybe science is how God works things and that the people who wrote the bible described everything as best as they could, with their limited understanding of what they saw and what they were shown. I dunno, but I do know at this point arguing with such blindness is like throwing a pie at a wall and expecting a hole to appear. It won't happen.



Not going to add to the debate/argument/whatever all of that was, but I really like this paragraph.


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## Cold~ (Nov 22, 2014)

I believe in myself.


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## Brackets (Nov 22, 2014)

Domowithamustache said:


> Atheist, but I believe that people should believe what they want to believe and no one should tell them otherwise.



I agree with this up to a point, but letting everyone have their beliefs and views could be damaging, especially if they're hurtful to others e.g. being strongly opposed against gay marriage. Sometimes you've just got to be like 'no, society's moved on now'. 

And make sure people realise religion should stay in church or religious studies classes -  we can let creationists believe in that stuff but no way should we teach it in schools as science or as fact, just to be 'politically correct' and not offend them.


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## Gnome (Nov 22, 2014)

simple

ball is life


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## Punchy-kun (Nov 22, 2014)

Annachie said:


> I agree with this up to a point, but letting everyone have their beliefs and views could be damaging, especially if they're hurtful to others e.g. being strongly opposed against gay marriage. Sometimes you've just got to be like 'no, society's moved on now'.
> 
> And make sure people realise religion should stay in church or religious studies classes -  we can let creationists believe in that stuff but no way should we teach it in schools as science or as fact, just to be 'politically correct' and not offend them.



The problem is that the evolution theory is being taught as fact though. Evolution is a reality(microevolution) but the assumption that microevolution proves macroevolution remains an assumption. I've no problem with it being taught, since it's good for people to know about it. But to be fair it should be taught the same way as religion, because macroevolution still depends on blind faith. 

As for the dinosaurs thing. I'm pretty sure they existed, but it's just an extinct animal. Plus, the Bible talks once or twice about a dinosaur like animal.


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## Brackets (Nov 22, 2014)

Punchy-kun said:


> The problem is that the evolution theory is being taught as fact though. Evolution is a reality(microevolution) but the assumption that microevolution proves macroevolution remains an assumption. I've no problem with it being taught, since it's good for people to know about it. But to be fair it should be taught the same way as religion, because macroevolution still depends on blind faith.
> 
> As for the dinosaurs thing. I'm pretty sure they existed, but it's just an extinct animal. Plus, the Bible talks once or twice about a dinosaur like animal.



Lol thats completely not true. Evolution is not an 'assumption', however much you would like it to be. It is a scientific theory, which is NOT just a guess or a hunch. There is plenty of evidence for it, so it is not just 'blind faith'. If you want science teachers to teach evolution as if it's 'just a theory' and might not be true, then they'd need to teach practically all of science like that as well, such as the theory of plate tectonics and cell theory. Evolution is taught as fact because it IS fact.

I love how creationists insist evolution isn't true just because we haven't observed it (even though we actually kind of have in bacteria, viruses etc), when they believe in a magical man in the sky which they obviously haven't observed either.


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## Punchy-kun (Nov 22, 2014)

Annachie said:


> Lol thats completely not true. Evolution is not an 'assumption', however much you would like it to be. It is a scientific theory, which is NOT just a guess or a hunch. There is plenty of evidence for it, so it is not just 'blind faith'. If you want science teachers to teach evolution as if it's 'just a theory' and might not be true, then they'd need to teach practically all of science like that as well, such as the theory of plate tectonics and cell theory. Evolution is taught as fact because it IS fact.
> 
> I love how creationists insist evolution isn't true just because we haven't observed it (even though we actually kind of have in bacteria, viruses etc), when they believe in a magical man in the sky which they obviously haven't observed either.



I wasn't talking about evolution(micro evolution that is), but about the evolution theory. There is a difference.


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## Brackets (Nov 22, 2014)

Punchy-kun said:


> I wasn't talking about evolution(micro evolution that is), but about the evolution theory. There is a difference.



Micro and macro evolution are the same process. The only difference is the time and the scale.


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## Reindeer (Nov 22, 2014)

Punchy-kun, I refer you to this post of mine. If you know how to read, you'll see that your focus on evolution as a theory is misguided. There's tons of evidence in both the fossil record and DNA evidence to support evolution.

Apart from that, people already knew around 1750 that evolution was an actual thing. The only thing they didn't know was _how_ it happened. When Darwin published _On the Origin of Species_, he proposed that it was natural selection. To date, all the evidence and observations made point to this being true. He never proposed evolution - this was already a scientific fact _for over 100 years_ by the time he published it.

The difference between teaching evolution and teaching religion is that evolution is a proven fact. Religion, still, is just based on blind faith. Researchers are actually trying very hard to find evidence to support religious texts. I can recall quite a few times that they claimed to have found a piece of the Ark, yet once they did tests they were wrong. Jesus has never been mentioned in Roman texts, yet he was supposed to have been the most hated man at the time.

Until religion can be backed up by evidence as much as evolution has been it has no place being taught as fact in any school system.


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## KarlaKGB (Nov 22, 2014)

y dont creationists just say that evolution is real and engineered by god? i mean they can say god did everything and theres no way to disprove them


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## Yui Z (Nov 22, 2014)

KarlaKGB said:


> y dont creationists just say that evolution is real and engineered by god? i mean they can say god did everything and theres no way to disprove them



A lot of them do though... They don't all share the exact same opinion.


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## Punchy-kun (Nov 22, 2014)

Reindeer said:


> Punchy-kun, I refer you to this post of mine. If you know how to read, you'll see that your focus on evolution as a theory is misguided. There's tons of evidence in both the fossil record and DNA evidence to support evolution.
> 
> Apart from that, people already knew around 1750 that evolution was an actual thing. The only thing they didn't know was _how_ it happened. When Darwin published _On the Origin of Species_, he proposed that it was natural selection. To date, all the evidence and observations made point to this being true. He never proposed evolution - this was already a scientific fact _for over 100 years_ by the time he published it.
> 
> ...



Well, here we come to the difference between evidence and proof. I for example remain correct when I say that the world(and countless other things) are evidence for God. 
There is no proof for the Evolution Theory for it has not been observed. So it is a fact that believing in the Evolution Theory you believe in something that has no proof.


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## Brackets (Nov 22, 2014)

KarlaKGB said:


> y dont creationists just say that evolution is real and engineered by god? i mean they can say god did everything and theres no way to disprove them



Most Christians do believe that, at least in the UK most of them do


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## Yui Z (Nov 22, 2014)

The dinosaurs definitely existed, there's no doubt about that. I heard one theory that a period of time was a lot shorter back in that time, and was very different to the regular 24-hour system that we use nowadays. A "decade" could've been just one day in our time, or maybe a week was equal to a century for us.


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## Brackets (Nov 22, 2014)

Punchy-kun said:


> Well, here we come to the difference between evidence and proof. I for example remain correct when I say that the world(and countless other things) are evidence for God.
> There is no proof for the Evolution Theory for it has not been observed. So it is a fact that believing in the Evolution Theory you believe in something that has no proof.



You're saying there's no proof for evolution, but there is for God? What the hell? Evolution does have proof, and evidence, of course it does. There's the similarities in DNA between species. There's fossil records, there's observation of bacteria mutating and evolving to survive. 

You can't just say 'the world' is evidence for God, that's so vague.


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## Punchy-kun (Nov 22, 2014)

Annachie said:


> You're saying there's no proof for evolution, but there is for God? What the hell? Evolution does have proof, and evidence, of course it does. There's the similarities in DNA between species. There's fossil records, there's observation of bacteria mutating and evolving to survive.
> 
> You can't just say 'the world' is evidence for God, that's so vague.



I beg you to read my post again, noting the difference between "evidence" and "proof". And I didn't say there was proof for God.


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## Brackets (Nov 22, 2014)

Punchy-kun said:


> I beg you to read my post again, noting the difference between "evidence" and "proof". And I didn't say there was proof for God.



It depends what definition of 'proof' you mean. Proof CAN mean essentially the same as evidence, or it can mean a proper mathematical proof - technically, the only thing that can definitely be 'proven' is mathematics. Therefore, it is ridiculous of people to ask to prove evolution, as it is impossible to mathematically prove it, as it doesn't really contain maths. There's actually no such thing as a scientific proof.

BUT evolution does have a lot of evidence, and is therefore seen as fact.


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## Reindeer (Nov 22, 2014)

KarlaKGB said:


> y dont creationists just say that evolution is real and engineered by god? i mean they can say god did everything and theres no way to disprove them


After Darwin published On the Origin of Species, Christians actually said he had done well in exposing the work of God. Then some jealous biologist came along and started **** talking, the people that don't accept still use those arguments to this day.



Punchy-kun said:


> Well, here we come to the difference between evidence and proof. I for example remain correct when I say that the world(and countless other things) are evidence for God.
> There is no proof for the Evolution Theory for it has not been observed. So it is a fact that believing in the Evolution Theory you believe in something that has no proof.


Simply by finding fossils, the DNA evidence, and all other things backing up evolution as a *fact* (it's not a hypothesis!), humankind has observed evolution. The fact that you personally have not seen it happen doesn't prove anything, as scientists are able to observe it happening in bacteria, and insects with short generations (like the fruit fly).
If you had read the post I linked (which evidently you didn't do), you would know that the theory of evolution simply is about how evolution happens, not whether it exists or not. We know it exists - the theory is simply about the inner workings of it, like how the theory of relativity tries to explain the inner workings of gravity among other things.

The fact that the Earth exists shows that the laws of nature work. That's just something that arose after the big bang, I don't see how it's something that proves God at all. Stars and planets form in a plane where gravity, velocity and time are the rulers? Absolutely preposterous, right? Apart from the trillions of stars we've found and the planets we keep finding in other planetary systems.

I'm sorry, but your personal experiences are not what everybody should believe in. The evidence to back up evolution is not from a personal experience. It's from collaborative research which has been going on for over 250 years. Your claims of evolution not existing simply because it has "not been observed" (by you, since it has been observed by others) are about as effective as an astronaut floating around in space and saying "gravity is bull****".


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## KarlaKGB (Nov 22, 2014)

hey punchy-kun is the world flat??


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## unintentional (Nov 22, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> You should say Dinosaurs "may" exist.



They existed you goshdarn egg.  Where would the bones come from?  The Illuminati?  What's next, planets don't exist?


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## Cudon (Nov 22, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> I said there are no absolutes as scientific theorys will always change and the things we are sure of this day and age will change when time goes on.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> You should say Dinosaurs "may" exist.


How old are  you?


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## sej (Nov 22, 2014)

I believe in ghosts.


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## Punchy-kun (Nov 22, 2014)

Reindeer said:


> After Darwin published On the Origin of Species, Christians actually said he had done well in exposing the work of God. Then some jealous biologist came along and started **** talking, the people that don't accept still use those arguments to this day.
> 
> 
> Simply by finding fossils, the DNA evidence, and all other things backing up evolution as a *fact* (it's not a hypothesis!), humankind has observed evolution. The fact that you personally have not seen it happen doesn't prove anything, as scientists are able to observe it happening in bacteria, and insects with short generations (like the fruit fly).
> ...



Sigh, you guys still don't get that evidence does not equal proof. 
I *know* evolution has been observed, but you really should stop assuming macro and micro evolution are the same. They are not. 
Evolution that a certain KIND of animal changed into another KIND of animal has not been observed. THAT is the main deal what the Evolution Theory states to have happened while for that there is 0 proof since it has NOT been observed by anyone. 

Again stop mixing up evidence and proof. 

"Evidence is a fact or situation that suggests something might be true. Proof is a fact or situation that removes all doubt. Sometimes more than one evidence can add up to proof."

So with this definition I am allowed to say that the obvious _design_ in the universe, earth, animals, plants and humans suggests there to be a designer. Thus that does counts like evidence. 

And another amazing LACK of evidence _missing without reason_, is the lack of the BILLIONS of fossils, bones and traces of all the missing links between the creatures. Again I have the right to call that evidence against evolution.

Anyway, I see the evolution theory as a religion on it's own since it too requires "faith". And for me A LOT more than the faith I need for God. Probably just because God makes sense and chaos creating order doesn't.

Also, the evolution theory conflicts with the Bible, so people cannot believe both, without being unfaithful to one of the two. It's like being muslim and Christian at the same time. It's just contradicting. Note: I'm not against Evolution Theory just because it conflicts with the Bible, but because of the lack of evidence. Seriously the evidence there is now really is not significant at all to me.

That's where we differ, and I'm not going to change my mind. You don't have to either, but lets not waste time arguing if it's to no avail. I bet the people viewing this thread get tired of it anyway.


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## unintentional (Nov 22, 2014)

Dinomates said:


> How old are  you?



I do think he's 12?  I've seen him called 12 a lot.
Although, my sister, who's 6, knows dinosaurs DID exist.


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## Reindeer (Nov 22, 2014)

Punchy-kun said:


> "Evidence is a fact or situation that suggests something might be true. Proof is a fact or situation that removes all doubt. Sometimes more than one evidence can add up to proof."


So the fact that the fossil record points to there having been a common ancestor between us and other hominids, the DNA evidence as well as the evidence showing human chromosomes are a mutated version of those chimpanzees carry do not add up to proof in your eyes.



Punchy-kun said:


> And another amazing LACK of evidence _missing without reason_, is the lack of the BILLIONS of fossils, bones and traces of all the missing links between the creatures. Again I have the right to call that evidence against evolution.


Missing without reason because you assume that fossils are easily preserved. You're sitting on top of billions of years of history at all times, there's no way of escaping it. Archaeologists can't just overturn entire cities in order to find things, so they're restricted. Apart from that, not everything is going to be preserved, at least not perfectly. Bones can be fragmented by movements in the ground, whereas imprint fossils were often encased with liquids washing out the actual body and leaving the imprint in the stone. If you assume that we should have been able to find the full fossil record already, you don't understand how researching something of this magnitude works.

Karla asked a fairly obvious question before, but let's use that as an example. For how long did people think the Earth was flat? If you take the place where it took the longest before they accepted the world was round (China), then you're looking at about 18 centuries. The shortest would be Greece with around 8 centuries.

While fossils were found by the Greek and other ancient civilizations, all it did was give rise to mythical creatures like dragons, the hydra, etc. Even in the 17th century people thought the bones belonged to an extinct giant human species.
The first time one of these ancient species was being described was in the 1820s. So when comparing how knowledge comes to be, we've done fairly well with finding empirical evidence to back up evolution. Darwin described in good detail how evolution would likely work, and all human observations since that time have only managed to back up what he was saying. 200 years of people finding stuff that just strengthens this theory of evolution more and more (again, not to be confused with a hypothesis). They're still not done and they realize that, otherwise they would just stop working now.



Punchy-kun said:


> Anyway, I see the evolution theory as a religion on it's own since it too requires "faith". And for me A LOT more than the faith I need for God. Probably just because God makes sense and chaos creating order doesn't.


So you're basically saying it is a personal problem on your side. I can tell you that evolution does not require "faith", or any sort of "belief". If you're too lazy to read up on the actual facts then maybe it does, but once you actually start studying the subject you'll realize how spot-on we've been getting it.

If you are more willing to believe in an invisible man sitting in the sky playing with a dollhouse and telling people on a tiny planet in a tiny corner of a galaxy in a tiny corner of a cluster in a tiny corner of the universe what they can and cannot do, then dismiss evolution as a crock of **** then that's not my problem.

- - - Post Merge - - -

By the way, nice work quoting somebody else there. It's too bad you need other people to argue your points for you.


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## Cory (Nov 22, 2014)

THE WHOLE WORLD IS REALLY A SNOWGLOBE


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## Saaaakisuchan (Nov 22, 2014)

I believe.. that the hot dogs go on. XD 

I believe in god and I believe in the world 

- - - Post Merge - - -

I believe in heaven too


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## Lio Fotia (Nov 22, 2014)

I know I said I wouldn't post here again but...







I am enjoying this show. Please continue.

And NikkiNikki, Thank you for your kind words about my family. They really bring me a great deal of pride, and they are my inspiration, even if I don't get along with them that much they are my family and I love them.


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## MrPuzzleMan (Nov 22, 2014)

I believe that hippies need to come back in style. BRING ON THE TIE-DYE!


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