# New Horizons feels like a discount New Leaf



## Boidoh (Dec 24, 2020)

I bought Animal Crossing: New Horizons on launch day. I was a New Leaf player on 3DS since a month after it's US launch, and played for several years. I was exhausted from New Leaf and was hoping that the next iteration in the series would give me even more content. In NL, the tiny things fascinated me. All the different stores (and the buildable ones like the Police Station), hidden areas (like Resetti's home), extra content (like the monthly free DLC), fortune cookies, exotic fruit, fancy items (like the 7/11 content, ABDs and such), and more. New Leaf felt fleshed out and brimming with content at every corner....

and New Horizons doesn't fill this for me....

At launch, the mere fact of waiting a week or so for the hourly music to arrive was agonizing hell. There was no diving at launch, nor bushes. I believe that art wasn't added in until later as well. 

But besides just that, New Horizons skimps out on a lot of the things New Leaf had. No longer are there decoratable museum rooms and a gift shop. There is not even the Roost (though I think data mines said this would come eventually). K.K. Slider just shows up outside of the Town Hall! Shampoodle is no more - replaced by a menu! The only buildings are.... 2 expansions of Nook's Cranny (NL had several more...) and the Able Sisters.... And items are selected via a menu (while yes, some can be hand-picked). Some purchases in Nook's Cranny don't disappear after buying them - they can be bought indefinitely.

On that note, one GOOD thing they did was value the items more accurately. I like that more typically expensive items match that equivalent price.

Resetti is gone completely... Except for a "cameo" in the NookPhone. Fruits... exotic fruits are gone! Not even the banana remained. No persimmons. Yeah, there are pumpkins now - and the prospect of that DID excite me. It was one of the few things not in New Leaf (crafting is lame) that they added. I like it, but it's not all that interesting or captivating in a vacuum, especially when so much other things were cut. This is a tropical island for goodness sake! Where are the exotic fruit?

Fortune cookies... gone. Those were fun. They didn't even need to be Nintendo items. I just liked the variety. Correct me if I'm wrong (because I've been out of the loop from the online scene) but I don't think there are any cool items like the 7/11 set from New Leaf. 

Oh, and the other islands in NH are lame. I'd take NL's tropical island any day.

I'm sure I'm missing some things, but, all in all, New Horizons feels like an HD trimmed down version of New Leaf. In some ways, it feels like a "Wild World" to the original GCN game. So many good things are gone....


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## bebebese (Dec 24, 2020)

Yeah... I like NH but more often I find myself thinking I'd rather they released New Leaf 2 than this... unfinished thing. Crafting and terraforming are nice additions but they don't replace any of the old stuff that made the games fun.


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## Boidoh (Dec 24, 2020)

bebebese said:


> Yeah... I like NH but more often I find myself thinking I'd rather they released New Leaf 2 than this... unfinished thing. Crafting and terraforming are nice additions but they don't replace any of the old stuff that made the games fun.



Crafting was fun and cute the first few weeks of the game... and then it became pretty much useless. My town became littered branches. My storage became filled with a bunch of items I'll never uses.. So much sets of stones, branches, weeds, clay, etc... I don't see a use for it at this point.

Terraforming... I've seen people do some pretty things with it - but personally, I tend to just like the default way the game gave me my island. Must be conditioning from New Leaf.


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## b_l_x_x_k_e (Dec 24, 2020)

bebebese said:


> Yeah... I like NH but more often I find myself thinking I'd rather they released New Leaf 2 than this... unfinished thing. Crafting and terraforming are nice additions but they don't replace any of the old stuff that made the games fun.



this so much. ive been thinking for awhile it would've been alot better imo if they had released a higher quality version of NL with new thing from NH included like terraforming ect. kind of like what CF is to WW


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## RollingAntony (Dec 24, 2020)

New Horizons is a different game than New Leaf. Both have features that the other doesn't have and both have features that they do share. Some of the previous mechanics were streamlined for this release, and that included how some menus or interactions replaced NPC.

People expecting different things from what the game turned out to be doesn't mean the game is unfinished and the same goes for not liking the new features; it's a matter of taste at the end of the day in most cases. Like making "New Leaf, but HD and with all new features" is not how games are usually made.


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## TheDuke55 (Dec 24, 2020)

We went through a full year almost and the events are really lacking. And I'm not talking about the main ones. We have those but other then that, we didn't get as much as the previous games. So most days nothing was really happening. Oh Kicks is taking up the spot in RS again?

I like NH, but I do feel like they relied too heavily on the drip-feed, new gimmick, and the patience/longevity of the fans/game. Will I still play it? Yes, but it lacks the core of the previous games. Villager interactions, fleshed out calendars of events, upgrades/shops.


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## MayorofMapleton (Dec 24, 2020)

New Horizons is more so a updated Animal Crossing/Animal Forest game. 

The more and more it shows, with similar gimmicks and playstyle to it. 

The Switch titles have kind of been like that, even the new Mario Party had a similar story to the original party game too.


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## Boidoh (Dec 24, 2020)

RollingAntony said:


> New Horizons is a different game than New Leaf. Both have features that the other doesn't have and both have features that they do share. Some of the previous mechanics were streamlined for this release, and that included how some menus or interactions replaced NPC.
> 
> People expecting different things from what the game turned out to be doesn't mean the game is unfinished and the same goes for not liking the new features; it's a matter of taste at the end of the day in most cases. Like making "New Leaf, but HD and with all new features" is not how games are usually made.



New Horizons is the successor to New Leaf. It's regression to disregard the progress of the series. What are the major additions to NH other than items being placed outside and a lackluster crafting mechanism? Nothing but tiny, if they can be considered that, quality-of-life improvements. Obviously the updates are drip-feeding us New Leaf content. Yes, NH is a different game to NL - but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's not a spin-off, and there was no paradigm-shift.



TheDuke55 said:


> I like NH, but I do feel like they relied too heavily on the drip-feed, new gimmick, and the patience/longevity of the fans/game. Will I still play it? Yes, but it lacks the core of the previous games. Villager interactions, fleshed out calendars of events, upgrades/shops.



Same. While I will complain about what I don't like - I'll still play it.



MayorofMapleton said:


> New Horizons is more so a updated Animal Crossing/Animal Forest game.
> 
> The more and more it shows, with similar gimmicks and playstyle to it.
> 
> The Switch titles have kind of been like that, even the new Mario Party had a similar story to the original party game too.



Eh. If it was an updated New Leaf it wouldn't be so bad. But it's not even that. If you mean the original N64/GCN game, then, I don't see it.

But the entire SWITCH has been filled with lackluster titles. Breath of the Wild is a Wii U port technically. Super Mario Odyssey while being good (maybe a 7.8/10 game), felt filled with filler moons. Super Mario Party had minimalist boards. Splatoon 2 is... splatoon.. 2.. Ports galore. Nintendo has been disappointing me in general recently.


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## LambdaDelta (Dec 24, 2020)

b_l_x_x_k_e said:


> this so much. ive been thinking for awhile it would've been alot better imo if they had released a higher quality version of NL with new thing from NH included like terraforming ect. kind of like what CF is to WW


I hated city folk specifically because of basically just being an enhanced wild world, so I'm honestly glad they didn't just fall back into a "new leaf 2" situation

though new horizons was definitely unfinished upon release. feel they may of been _too_ ambitious, but didn't want to announce yet another delay. so they just put it out to add more features with the routine updates we've been getting

	Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2020



MayorofMapleton said:


> New Horizons is more so a updated Animal Crossing/Animal Forest game.


also, this too

it isn't 1:1, but much of the simplicity can be more compared to cube crossing than anything else


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## iamjohnporter67 (Dec 24, 2020)

I feel like the events suffered in NH because here's the thing after playing this game for 8 months. The issue I had with Bunny Day was that they made it a 12 day thing which was a bad idea. It conflicted with other events like the Cherry Blossom Event and the Fishing Journey. Which made it frustrating for people who didn't care about Bunny Day but they ended getting Bunny Day diys and eggs instead. Looking back at Turkey Day I can appreciate it more because at least it made you busy of what you needed to make the recipies and you felt reward after you made all of them and gotten really good diys. Toy Day however is just very shallow and it doesn't really hold up as well. 

I think Nintendo needs to make events last a certain time like in the old AC games like New Leaf Toy Day doesn't start until 6 PM. So what I suggest is they set a time for how long the event lasts. Halloween did this right when it was announced it last from 5 PM through 12 AM. Most events before than and then Toy Day never set a time. I think that is the main issue with past events, they didn't have proper times set. 

So this what every event should be in 2021. Have a proper time set, make sure its one day event, have better rewards, and of course don't let it go to waste and let it be so short. That is what I hope they do in 2021 to make these events better because this year they were not so good. Halloween is still the best but still they need to go back to how it was done right in past AC games. surely that will make a lot of people who were disappointed like myself a lot more happy. It would be the right thing to do. I'm sure they are aware of this but its taken them this long realize it.


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## LambdaDelta (Dec 24, 2020)

TheDuke55 said:


> Villager interactions


mean you're not wrong, but these weren't all that great in new leaf either

wild world was the last I can recall having good villager dialogues


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## a_b (Dec 24, 2020)

I couldnt agree more. To be honest at this point the only things driving me to play nh is the ability to customize my island and terraform because that's all there is. Even the event updates arent really all that great in comparison to new leaf. New leaf just has so much more to do other than decorating. So many little quirks and fun things to do. I'll find myself feeling bored if I'm not designing patterns, playing with friends, or decorating my island majority of the time while playing nh
I wish I could just merge the two games.
Needless to say, it's a good thing decorating is _incredibly_ fun lol


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## duckykate (Dec 24, 2020)

girl i miss new leaf soo much u dont even get it


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## RollingAntony (Dec 24, 2020)

Boidoh said:


> New Horizons is the successor to New Leaf. It's regression to disregard the progress of the series. What are the major additions to NH other than items being placed outside and a lackluster crafting mechanism? Nothing but tiny, if they can be considered that, quality-of-life improvements. Obviously the updates are drip-feeding us New Leaf content. Yes, NH is a different game to NL - but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's not a spin-off, and there was no paradigm-shift.


A new entry of the franchise isn't obliged to have all the content from previous games, most of the time the games have different spins to them in order to make them unique; it's not a black and white "disregard of the progress". You can look around the industry as a whole and see how it works.

The fact you diminish NH additions just because you don't like them doesn't mean they are not major. Items being placed outside is a major addition, it gives a level of customisation that the franchise never had and means that anyone playing the game can showcase their creativity to its fullest without being confined to a house or the placement of 30 PWP. 

The "lackluster" crafting mechanic is big, it completely changes many things about the way the game is played- as it now involves DIY collecting, material collecting, the crafting itself and the customisation of most of them. It's ok if you don't like it, that doesn't make it less relevant, big or anything.

And terraforming is as big as the previous two if not much more than that.

The "nothing but tiny" QoL improvements is quite strange, as there are tons of them, beginning with how villagers move in/move out, how events are available for longer times instead of tiny windows of time, and the aforementioned menus replacing NPC that limited some actions- like how you needed to be on the game at certain times just to cut your hair. Let's not forget the improved storage/pocket options or how you don't need to worry about running too much around or else you'll lose your grass and flowers. I guess we should also go back to having to tan in order to be able to be yourself.

Like it has been said, it's ok to not like NH, but disregarding all the positives things about it isn't right. NH is far from perfect, that's true, and can be improved; and even if the developing team is supposed to get feedback from players in order to do that, most of this "feedback" is not constructive and is often misguided.


Oh and apologies if I misunderstood, but did you call Splatoon 2 a port? Because yeah no. It's not.


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## Bilaz (Dec 24, 2020)

Seeing several of my friends who never got into animal crossing games before despite trying them getting 100s of hours into New Horizons really opened my eyes to what’s actually the direction the series has taken.

New Leaf was like a love letter to the fans of the series, brimming with content and full of new things and old, it was also a difficult game to get into if you’re not... The kind of person who just loves open ended games and immediately starts relaxing and doing random stuff. It was very complex, and a lot of my friends didn’t know what to do or got bored.

New Horizons streamlined a lot and taught new players exactly what to do and how. Catching creatures, building stuff, all part of the extended tutorial. Menus were streamlined, functions were condensed and the game slowly opened up to reveal the most customisation the series ever had. The life sim aspect feels simplified, and I find that a shame too, but I think it’s a design choice

The missing content is probably because they bit off more than they could chew on time, and they have added back a lot already. The furniture redesign probably had to do with everything having to be HD and be able to be placed outside. This game clearly had a lot of work put into it, it’s just not for everyone


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## John Wick (Dec 24, 2020)

Boidoh said:


> New Horizons is the successor to New Leaf. It's regression to disregard the progress of the series. What are the major additions to NH other than items being placed outside and a lackluster crafting mechanism? Nothing but tiny, if they can be considered that, quality-of-life improvements. Obviously the updates are drip-feeding us New Leaf content. Yes, NH is a different game to NL - but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's not a spin-off, and there was no paradigm-shift.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


100% agree with you.


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## a_b (Dec 24, 2020)

Bilaz said:


> Seeing several of my friends who never got into animal crossing games before despite trying them getting 100s of hours into New Horizons really opened my eyes to what’s actually the direction the series has taken.
> 
> New Leaf was like a love letter to the fans of the series, brimming with content and full of new things and old, it was also a difficult game to get into if you’re not... The kind of person who just loves open ended games and immediately starts relaxing and doing random stuff. It was very complex, and a lot of my friends didn’t know what to do or got bored.
> 
> New Horizons streamlined a lot and taught new players exactly what to do and how. Catching creatures, building stuff, all part of the extended tutorial. Menus were streamlined, functions were condensed and the game slowly opened up to reveal the most customisation the series ever had. The life sim aspect feels simplified, and I find that a shame too, but I think it’s a design choice


Wow I never thought of it this way! You have a good point


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## Boidoh (Dec 24, 2020)

RollingAntony said:


> A new entry of the franchise isn't obliged to have all the content from previous games, most of the time the games have different spins to them in order to make them unique; it's not a black and white "disregard of the progress". You can look around the industry as a whole and see how it works.




No, but this isn't a series like The Legend of Zelda. It's Animal Crossing. It's a relatively simple game, and other than with Wild World, every game to this point had improved on each previous entry.



RollingAntony said:


> The fact you diminish NH additions just because you don't like them doesn't mean they are not major. Items being placed outside is a major addition, it gives a level of customisation that the franchise never had and means that anyone playing the game can showcase their creativity to its fullest without being confined to a house or the placement of 30 PWP.



Yeah, items being placed outside is probably the biggest addition to this game. It's a nice improvement over PWPs in NL. Hence why I said that OTHER THAN items being placed outside and the lackluster crafting mechanic, it's just QoL improvements.



RollingAntony said:


> The "lackluster" crafting mechanic is big, it completely changes many things about the way the game is played- as it now involves DIY collecting, material collecting, the crafting itself and the customisation of most of them. It's ok if you don't like it, that doesn't make it less relevant, big or anything.
> 
> And terraforming is as big as the previous two if not much more than that.



It's big for the first month of the game, and maybe for events. Other than that, I rarely, if ever, find the need to craft. For fences and stuff... maybe? For the breakable items - sure, but I can always just buy them too. Terraforming is probably bigger than crafting. Crafting was underdeveloped.



RollingAntony said:


> The "nothing but tiny" QoL improvements is quite strange, as there are tons of them, beginning with how villagers move in/move out, how events are available for longer times instead of tiny windows of time, and the aforementioned menus replacing NPC that limited some actions- like how you needed to be on the game at certain times just to cut your hair. Let's not forget the improved storage/pocket options or how you don't need to worry about running too much around or else you'll lose your grass and flowers. I guess we should also go back to having to tan in order to be able to be yourself.



You're proving my point. They are tiny QoL improvements. Actually, some of these "improvements" arguably make the game worse. Part of the charm and appeal for Animal Crossing, for me, was the world itself. The fact that you could only cut your hair at certain times was part of the charm. Being stuck with a face the game gave you - part of the charm too.

Improved storage... Well, that was long overdue. QoL improvements. Does waiting 7 years warrant that? I also kinda miss the natural paths, the new ones feel too angular. Tanning was cool. I don't like that I can change the colour of my skin, my hair, my gender, and my facial features at the press of a button. That's not how things work in real life. At the very least create new characters/buildings for me to do these.



RollingAntony said:


> Like it has been said, it's ok to not like NH, but disregarding all the positives things about it isn't right. NH is far from perfect, that's true, and can be improved; and even if the developing team is supposed to get feedback from players in order to do that, most of this "feedback" is not constructive and is often misguided.



I "like" NH. I play it regularly and I do have fun with it. I just feel as if there was a big missed opportunity for further improvement here. I think my feedback is constructive and logical.



RollingAntony said:


> Oh and apologies if I misunderstood, but did you call Splatoon 2 a port? Because yeah no. It's not.



You misunderstood. I said Splatoon 2 was "Splatoon.... 2". That's what it felt like. (Like the original Splatoon, but more refined) Yes, I know there are a lot of small improvements, similar to NH, but a sequel (especially one that isn't a frequent release) shouldn't have to need hardcore fans to outline the tiniest of improvements or changes as warranting its existence.


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## John Wick (Dec 24, 2020)

I feel NH was designed to condition old school fans into the crafting PC style of play.

I feel that was a bad decision.

PC has the crafting, and IMO, it should have remained with the mobile game.

I didn't expect it to take the direction it did, and I'd much prefer NL 2.0 with all the items and endearing features, than have terraforming.

I don't really care for it.

Items outside is fantastic, but as nintendo has done before, they give with one hand, and take with the other.

Here's a whole island where you can cram stuff outside.. but.. we've removed anything that was worth putting outside and left you with a crapload of wooden stools.

Uh.. thanks. >..<


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## TheDuke55 (Dec 24, 2020)

LambdaDelta said:


> mean you're not wrong, but these weren't all that great in new leaf either
> 
> wild world was the last I can recall having good villager dialogues


They weren't great, but I feel like they went another step backwards in this regard with NH. I can talk to the villagers in NL more then once and they won't give me passive aggressive interactions. 'You're talking to me again?' Bro I only talked to you twice. Once in the morning and now at night.


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## Kalle (Dec 24, 2020)

New Horizons is a great game on its own, but it definitely fails to deliver on content and characters. There's just too much missing, particularly furniture types—where is the counter/table top space?—and special characters like Brewster, Katrina, Kapp'n, etc., etc. I even consider Resetti as missing since we don't see him nor really interact with him.

If I had to rank the mainline AC titles, I'd say New Horizons would be third as of right now.


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## TheDuke55 (Dec 24, 2020)

Boidoh said:


> You're proving my point. They are tiny QoL improvements. Actually, some of these "improvements" arguably make the game worse. Part of the charm and appeal for Animal Crossing, for me, was the world itself. The fact that you could only cut your hair at certain times was part of the charm. Being stuck with a face the game gave you - part of the charm too.


This is how I felt with the hair and face customization. The idea of there being a shop you go to to get stylized was a part that always felt unique. It filled out the shop area and made the AC world feel complete. Like it was real in its own way. The idea of face puttying yourself feels superficial.

So I get you on that charm that the shops like that made the place feel alive. It's a game with codes and generated images, but this kind of stuff brought it to life. I never did like the idea of the face/hair change whenever/wherever when it was introduced. But I'm a minority, I know that.


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## John Wick (Dec 24, 2020)

Kalle said:


> New Horizons is a great game on its own, but it definitely fails to deliver on content and characters. There's just too much missing, particularly furniture types—where is the counter/table top space?—and special characters like Brewster, Katrina, Kapp'n, etc., etc. I even consider Resetti as missing since we don't see him nor really interact with him.
> 
> If I had to rank the mainline AC titles, I'd say New Horizons would be third as of right now.


Oh, I totally miss the brick counter!!!!

And plate armor, and oh, hundreds of other items.

Dead trees!


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## Starfish10 (Dec 24, 2020)

I definitely don’t feel like New Horizons is like a “discount” New Leaf. I think New Horizons is better in pretty much every way! At least for me. I’ve played every Animal Crossing, and New Leaf was the only one I didn’t really like all that much. 

This might sound weird, but I don’t think of Animal Crossing as a “game.” For me, it’s more of an “experience.” It’s not a traditional video game in that it’s intended to hold the player’s attention with lots of content for hours at a time. It’s an atmospheric experience... the player is meant to log in for twenty minutes a day, maybe an hour here or there, and just enjoy some simple tasks and fun music and bright colors and friendly atmosphere. It’s a short, positive mental break from daily life, but it’s not really meant to be a content-packed “game.” That’s how I interpret Animal Crossing, at least.

I think one of the reasons I didn’t really like New Leaf was that it tried too hard to be a “game” instead of an “experience.” It had a lot of content, but it didn’t feel very atmospheric to me. The world didn’t feel “alive.” The music was kinda sad. The villagers had the worst dialogue! It was trying so hard to be a content-packed game that the atmosphere itself was just sort of empty. It didn’t feel like a real, breathing little world like GameCube, Wild World, and City Folk did. 

For me, New Horizons brings back that feeling that my town is a living breathing little community. New Horizons feels so alive! It feels really deep and rich and homey. There’s enough to do to give me a nice little mental break every day, maybe for 30 minutes or an hour, and just immerse myself in another world, and that’s plenty of content for me!


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## Corndoggy (Dec 24, 2020)

i feel its great the NH tried to move forward from what animal crossing has been, but in doing so they have taken away so many of the good things. Look, i miss the old themed furniture, i miss brewster and the gyroids. i may be a sucker for all the old stuff, but i feel like they replaced all the furniture with new stuff and its so hard to decorate cos most fo the furniture i loved is gone. i would enjoy the game a lot better if we had some old stuff as well, a better balance. That being said, i do enjoy NH, i play like 15 min a day atm, but the only reason ive been playing is cos im tting to redo my bedroom and bathroom. i completely gave up on my island cos it just made me tired so ive left that. im honestly considering resetting at this point, because i am so tired.


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## Boidoh (Dec 24, 2020)

Kalle said:


> New Horizons is a great game on its own, but it definitely fails to deliver on content and characters. There's just too much missing, particularly furniture types—where is the counter/table top space?—and special characters like Brewster, Katrina, Kapp'n, etc., etc. I even consider Resetti as missing since we don't see him nor really interact with him.
> 
> If I had to rank the mainline AC titles, I'd say New Horizons would be third as of right now.



This, right here. In a vacuum it's an excellent game. Ignoring history and progress in the series. It's really amazing - which is probably why so many new fans are enjoying it so much. Putting it into perspective though, a lot of the flaws start to show.

I'd agree with your ranking as well...  I'd say:

1. New Leaf (in terms of content, GCN was FAR superior in terms of atmosphere/feel)
2. GCN
3. New Horizons
4. City Folk
5. Wild World


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## StarlitGlitch (Dec 24, 2020)

I know that people often complain about video games getting easier but NH is possibly the first game where this has bothered me. I'd be willing to put in more time if I felt like there was value in it, right now I'm just a little over 200 hours in, but IMO because the game is made to appeal to a wider audience I feel like I get everything I can from it just by playing casually. There's nothing wrong with being a casual player and it definitely brought in new fans this way but I wish that they weren't so afraid of adding in aspects that take more commitment for more dedicated players too, especially when it comes to holidays. Also I wish it was more balanced instead of catering only to decorating especially when the items are a bit lacking for that.

I'm okay with a lot of smaller things being missing because I think that each AC game can have its own identity but I wish things in general like mini-games, having larger holidays be more involved + more smaller holidays, better villager interactions (I like the NL dialogue/varied things they'd do), and more stylistic furniture/clothing were still in the game.

Ooh ranking the AC games? That's tough... I think I'd have to split it up between my enjoyment at the time that I was into it vs how willing I would be to play it now in 2020

Ranking for how I felt playing when it came out/when I got it :
1. Wild World
2. New Leaf
3/4 (tie). GCN/New Horizons
5. City Folk

Ranking for playing in 2020:
1. New Leaf
2. GCN
3. New Horizons
4. City Folk
5. Wild World

I got GCN in 2006 after WW to bide my time before CF, I enjoyed it but in part because it's on the TV and the timing probably put the least amount of time into it. I was really into WW largely because it was my first AC game, I was still a kid, and I spent a lot of time WiFi-ing. However the graphics are hard to get past now and the lack of appealing holidays (I'd take the ones in NH over WW any day) make it hard to get into now.


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## daringred_ (Dec 24, 2020)

my big issue is just the sheer amount of stuff they dropped between NL and NH. i don't think that much has ever been removed between entries, and especially not without adding just as much new stuff to make up for said removal. i made a list on my phone just to put it into perspective and it's... _insane_. if they hadn't removed as much as they had, my disappointment with the game would almost definitely be slimmer.

it's easy enough to say "it's a different game" or "it's not NL" but, frankly, every new game in a franchise like this should expand on the last instead of all but ignoring it. (and they have, until now.) there is no real reason or need for most of the previous features to have been removed instead of carried over. every game has its own gimmick (CF had the city, WW had no holidays, NL had the mayor), and crafting/exterior decorating/landscaping is arguably that for NH but then... that's it. what else of substance was there, really? nothing, and two of them largely only apply to those who enjoy the decorating aspect of the game. (which, personally, i think they've leaned way too heavily into with this title.) for the most part, features were either removed or simplified/downgraded. 

do i enjoy the game? sure, it's alright, but it's no NL, even after several updates, and i'm still bitter that i paid over double for NH when it at least feels like it has less than half the content.


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## maria110 (Dec 24, 2020)

New Horizons is the only AC game I've played.  I love it but when people post about all the interesting features of New Leaf that are missing, I feel envious of people who have had both.  I can't afford to buy an old system just to play New Leaf so I hope the New Horizons developers team keeps adding content to the current game.


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## AssassinVicz (Dec 24, 2020)

Just my opinion

They’re both different games which share the same genre, but the focus being different with each instalment. This keeps each game fresh and allows new features to be added.

New Horizons from my playing, has been designed to give the player the freedom to create their own island in whatever way they want. Sure there’s areas that cannot be moved, but you can change the mountains, rivers and bridge placements. To allow for a one of a kind island, designed in the way that you want. It isn’t randomly generated and you’re basically stuck with it for life, without much changing.

It also allows you to place furniture outside and decorate more, allowing your island to represent certain themes or places, without using the limited work projects. It allows you to craft and customise items.

It’s  something entirely different from the previous game and I’m happy for that. Since if it was just a port of new leaf with a couple of new features, it would just be rehashing the same game again. (Lets go to the city/city folk had some issues with that.)
Plus New leaf is still playable and has a community for it, so people can easily go back and play that game if New Horizons isn’t for them. Which is totally fine.

New Horizons has problems, the cut content is always going to be an issue until they implement it in some way. I also find some of the new mechanics frustrating (cliffs and water scaping ) from how they were implemented. Plus some QOL touches.

However I still enjoy the game and I honestly don’t regret buying it. I do prefer it over new leaf because the design aspect really interests me and having friends which enjoy new horizons too (plus being able to help and send each other things aswell), makes the experience aswell.


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## Locokoko182 (Dec 24, 2020)

I could not disagree more.
I feel like people idealize New Leaf and forget just how much of a leap this is from the last game. They don’t stop and think about just how much more they put in (more to the miles type system, more fish, more bugs, better models, more customization, terraforming, better swimming and diving, crafting, new weather system, etc), and that’s where the long-lasting gameplay value is.  They also forget *how much stuffwas added on later*, and they are not giving New Horizons that opportunity.
New Horizons is vastly superior. You can do so much more, be so much more creative in every way, etc. it builds upon it. You can now terraform, more clothes, they have new kinds of items, new functions, etc. they removed some things, yes, but the overall thing is that you could literally rearrange your island a million different, more unique ways than you ever could before. Nobody is giving New Horizons much time to get us even more than they did before. It is such a massive game even with less, so they have to put out the game and add dlc as time goes on.
New Horizons isn’t discount anything. They put so much work into what they have, and it shows. It just hasn’t had the proper time to give us even more, and they will. I feel like this is severely under appreciating just how much work went into what we’ve seen. New Leaf became horribly repetitive and unfun because of the customization restrictions, and that’s why New Horizons is so much better to me.


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## sleepydreepy (Dec 24, 2020)

I wouldn't say its a _discount_ NL per say, since the graphics quality is significantly better, I would instead call it a half finished game, because that's what it is. We will never know NH's true potential until the last update is released, possibly a year or two from now.  I originally didn't think this was a bad thing but now experiencing one disappointing update after the other I wish the entire game was just released at launch. It sucks waiting all month for an event (like Toy Day) only to be massively disappointed. If the updates aren't adding that much new content they shouldn't be hyped up like they are. I still enjoy NH (specifically the design aspect/terraforming and outdoor decorating) but I would definitely say it feels a bit empty.


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## daringred_ (Dec 24, 2020)

Locokoko182 said:


> I could not disagree more.
> I feel like people idealize New Leaf and forget just how much of a leap this is from the last game. They don’t stop and think about just how much more they put in (more to the miles type system, more fish, more bugs, better models, more customization, terraforming, better swimming and diving, crafting, new weather system, etc), and that’s where the long-lasting gameplay value is.  They also forget *how much stuffwas added on later*, and they are not giving New Horizons that opportunity.
> New Horizons is vastly superior. You can do so much more, be so much more creative in every way, etc. it builds upon it. You can now terraform, more clothes, they have new kinds of items, new functions, etc. they removed some things, yes, but the overall thing is that you could literally rearrange your island a million different, more unique ways than you ever could before. Nobody is giving New Horizons much time to get us even more than they did before. It is such a massive game even with less, so they have to put out the game and add dlc as time goes on.
> New Horizons isn’t discount anything. They put so much work into what they have, and it shows. It just hasn’t had the proper time to give us even more, and they will. I feel like this is severely under appreciating just how much work went into what we’ve seen. New Leaf became horribly repetitive and unfun because of the customization restrictions, and that’s why New Horizons is so much better to me.



genuinely don't think there's any need to come in here and dismiss/discredit people's fair criticism and/or opinions by accusing them of not being able to "stop and think" just because they disagree with you. i've played literally every game other than GC (PC and HHD included), and i always found the next mainline installment better than the last until now. it's got nothing to do with "idealizing" NL and "forgetting how much of a leap this is from the last game" as if i don't see or use the features in NH everyday as i play lmao.


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## Locokoko182 (Dec 24, 2020)

daringred_ said:


> genuinely don't think there's any need to come in here and dismiss/discredit people's fair criticism and/or opinions by accusing them of not being able to "stop and think" just because they disagree with you. i've played literally every game other than GC (PC and HHD included), and i always found the next mainline installment better than the last until now. it's got nothing to do with "idealizing" NL and "forgetting how much of a leap this is from the last game" as if i don't see or use the features in NH everyday as i play lmao.



Sorry, that did come off as horribly dismissive wasn’t it. But I was just trying to say I - in my opinion- believe a lot of people forget how much was added and don’t really see all the work. That isn’t saying that nobody here can’t see it and still come to the same conclusion.

I was genuinely trying not to say that you guys can’t think for yourselves, I’m just merely saying think a lot of people don’t think about a lot of the stuff added.

I really wasn’t trying to say you can’t have your own thoughts or you don’t have valid points or thoughts, because you all do. I was just feeling that I think it’s sort of unfair to call it a discount game when they were trying to build on top of it.

I was more trying to get across that I feel way too many people aren’t giving it enough of a chance for the future, and that they really did try. I really am not trying to dismissive of criticisms when there is room for it. It is NOT a perfect game, and there is LOTS to improve on!


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## daringred_ (Dec 24, 2020)

Locokoko182 said:


> Sorry, that did come off as horribly dismissive wasn’t it. But I was just trying to say I - in my opinion- believe a lot of people forget how much was added and don’t really see all the work. That isn’t saying that nobody here can’t see it and still come to the same conclusion.
> 
> I was genuinely trying not to say that you guys can’t think for yourselves, I’m just merely saying think a lot of people don’t think about a lot of the stuff added.
> 
> I really wasn’t trying to say you can’t have your own thoughts or you don’t have valid points or thoughts, because you all do. I was just feeling that I think it’s sort of unfair to call it a discount game when they were trying to build on top of it



you're totally fine to disagree with us and have your own opinion, i was just saying i didn't think it was necessary to act like everyone (or even most people) are just blinded by NL. i'm happy to admit that game had its own faults, but they're certainly few and far between compared to those in NH for me, at least. i can respect that people (probably) worked hard on NH, but hardwork doesn't always equal an amazing product. i'm sure i could make a list of all the genuinely brand new stuff added to NH, and it would still be dwarfed by what was removed after NL which is my biggest issue with the game and will continue to be going forward. even if they were trying to "build on top of it", the point is that they failed to do so in a lot of people's eyes, hence some feeling it's a downgrade (discount isn't the right word) or unfinished. 

i'm happy for you if you don't feel that way, and i'm sure nobody else feels ill will to those who genuinely enjoy the game or prefer it to NL either. personally, i'm just disappointed that they charged me over twice the amount for less than half the content because of... what? HD graphics? NL's graphics were considered high quality for the time, and they didn't charge me £60.


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## Boidoh (Dec 24, 2020)

daringred_ said:


> my big issue is just the sheer amount of stuff they dropped between NL and NH. i don't think that much has ever been removed between entries, and especially not without adding just as much new stuff to make up for said removal. i made a list on my phone just to put it into perspective and it's... _insane_. if they hadn't removed as much as they had, my disappointment with the game would almost definitely be slimmer.
> 
> it's easy enough to say "it's a different game" or "it's not NL" but, frankly, every new game in a franchise like this should expand on the last instead of all but ignoring it. (and they have, until now.) there is no real reason or need for most of the previous features to have been removed instead of carried over. every game has its own gimmick (CF had the city, WW had no holidays, NL had the mayor), and crafting/exterior decorating/landscaping is arguably that for NH but then... that's it. what else of substance was there, really? nothing, and two of them largely only apply to those who enjoy the decorating aspect of the game. (which, personally, i think they've leaned way too heavily into with this title.) for the most part, features were either removed or simplified/downgraded.
> 
> do i enjoy the game? sure, it's alright, but it's no NL, even after several updates, and i'm still bitter that i paid over double for NH when it at least feels like it has less than half the content.



100% agree with everything here.



AssassinVicz said:


> They’re both different games which share the same genre, but the focus being different with each instalment. This keeps each game fresh and allows new features to be added.



Yes... They are different games. But they don't exist in a vacuum. Nintendo fans should be allowed to criticize Nintendo and call them out for their laziness in recent titles. To say that "the reason NL features don't exist in NH is to keep things fresh" is ridiculous - especially when data mines reveal certain things like the Roost (or as the past showed, art/diving/bushes) are coming in future updates.



Locokoko182 said:


> I could not disagree more.
> I feel like people idealize New Leaf and forget just how much of a leap this is from the last game. They don’t stop and think about just how much more they put in (more to the miles type system, more fish, more bugs, better models, more customization, terraforming, better swimming and diving, crafting, new weather system, etc), and that’s where the long-lasting gameplay value is. They also forget *how much stuffwas added on later*, and they are not giving New Horizons that opportunity.



I don't put New Leaf on a pedestal. Actually, there's a lot I dislike about New Leaf in contrast to the GCN game - but that's another discussion. To throw a bone to anyone who thinks that I am a big New Leaf fanatic, one thing that NH does a vastly superior job at is the music. The hourly tracks in NH give off a GCN vibe, and I'd take it any day over NL's hourly themes.

Ah, I forgot about the miles system. It's fun, and reminds me of daily achievements on mobile games. I like it. It gives objectives. The issue is, after a point I think the miles are really useless. I haven't used them after buying everything I want. The catalogue doesn't change.

And here's something else that's lost in the museum! The museum no longer gives you descriptions of the fish/bugs on the little plaque. I loved going in the museum and reading all the descriptions but it's gone. Is this to "keep each game fresh"? Hmmm..

And yeah, the diving is a big improvement from New Leaf. I enjoy it a lot more now - but still, it's a QoL improvement. By and large, it's the same idea from New Leaf.



sleepydreepy said:


> I wouldn't say its a _discount_ NL per say, since the graphics quality is significantly better, I would instead call it a half finished game, because that's what it is.



That's what I'm implying by me hyperbolic choice of words. Other than graphics and the other major points everybody knows, New Leaf just has more content.



Locokoko182 said:


> But I was just trying to say I - in my opinion- believe a lot of people forget how much was added and don’t really see all the work.



Any game made takes tons of work on part of the development team. I'm sure it took a lot from the development team, and kudos to them for making a game as polished as they have made (except for when the game drops frames on crowded islands...). However, just because it's what we are given doesn't mean we should just "appreciate what we have". Of course, we are all Animal Crossing fans, and no one would vote with their dollars and boycott the game for not having tropical fruit. Nintendo's standards have been dropping off recently and to call it out is good - even if they will never lay eyes on this thread.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2020



daringred_ said:


> i'm sure i could make a list of all the genuinely brand new stuff added to NH, and it would still be dwarfed by what was removed after NL which is my biggest issue with the game and will continue to be going forward.



This is basically my thought in a nutshell. One step forward, two steps back.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2020



daringred_ said:


> hence some feeling it's a downgrade (discount isn't the right word) or unfinished.



The word choice was hyperbolic and was mostly to capture attention.


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## Locokoko182 (Dec 24, 2020)

daringred_ said:


> you're totally fine to disagree with us and have your own opinion, i was just saying i didn't think it was necessary to act like everyone (or even most people) are just blinded by NL. i'm happy to admit that game had its own faults, but they're certainly few and far between compared to those in NH for me, at least. i can respect that people (probably) worked hard on NH, but hardwork doesn't always equal an amazing product. i'm sure i could make a list of all the genuinely brand new stuff added to NH, and it would still be dwarfed by what was removed after NL which is my biggest issue with the game and will continue to be going forward. even if they were trying to "build on top of it", the point is that they failed to do so in a lot of people's eyes, hence some feeling it's a downgrade (discount isn't the right word) or unfinished.
> 
> i'm happy for you if you don't feel that way, and i'm sure nobody else feels ill will to those who genuinely enjoy the game or prefer it to NL either. personally, i'm just disappointed that they charged me over twice the amount for less than half the content because of... what? HD graphics? NL's graphics were considered high quality for the time, and they didn't charge me £60.



The reason it costs 60 dollars is simply because of how much development costs are these days for games like this. The costs for games like this are much, much larger than they used to be because games are much bigger graphics wise and more complicated (terraforming, setting stuff up outside, etc)., and they worked on this for many years. Games like this cost in the hundred millions and they have to have a certain cost or else they won’t make back their money, and they have to make investors happy. If the game only barely made a profit, investors wouldn’t think the series would be worth it. Now, we all know how beloved animal crossing is so it was a guaranteed best seller, but the standard across the field is 60 to 69 dollars now for a reason. These massive AAA games cost so much money that companies will make it that much money to buy.

I do hope that everyone will eventually get a lot more content and can feel satisfied, because it is sad to see  the community is disappointed for a lot of legitimate reasons. I really do want more things added and know it’s not perfect yet.

I wasn’t thinking people were necessarily being unappreciative or should be completely content - as there is a lot missing from the past that I believe can be added back - and want more in the future. I just feel like I see a lot of threads where it seems people just flat out hate this game sometimes.


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## daringred_ (Dec 24, 2020)

Boidoh said:


> Ah, I forgot about the miles system. It's fun, and reminds me of daily achievements on mobile games. I like it. It gives objectives. The issue is, after a point I think the miles are really useless. I haven't used them after buying everything I want. The catalogue doesn't change.



not going to lie, but i always thought that NL did this system better with the MEOW coupons. granted, you could only do three tasks a day, but that stopped them from stacking up so quickly and becoming as obsolete as they have in NH. there were also (i'm pretty sure) vastly more items for them to be spent on. you had harvey's rotating two daily items, the guaranteed daily NPC RV, and then any other RV you decided to invite with an amiibo card or figure. imo if they wanted to keep NMTs and the related tasks relevant as time went on, they should've continued adding more items or perks that could be bought with them. 

	Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2020



Locokoko182 said:


> The reason it costs 60 dollars is simply because of how much development costs are these days for games like this. The costs for games like this are much, much larger than they used to be because games are much bigger graphics wise and more complicated (terraforming, setting stuff up outside, etc)., and they worked on this for many years. Games like this cost in the hundred millions and they have to have a certain cost or else they won’t make back their money, and they have to make investors happy. If the game only barely made a profit, investors wouldn’t think the series would be worth it. Now, we all know how beloved animal crossing is so it was a guaranteed best seller, but the standard across the field is 60 to 69 dollars now for a reason. These massive AAA games cost so much money that companies will make it that much money to buy.
> 
> I do hope that everyone will eventually get a lot more content and can feel satisfied, because it is sad to see  the community is disappointed for a lot of legitimate reasons. I really do want more things added and know it’s not perfect yet.



i think you misunderstand. my issue isn't the cost itself, it's charging a higher cost for arguably less content and/or a game that comes across as unfinished or rushed. like you said, they had years to develop this game, and yet it's certainly never felt that way to me.


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## RollingAntony (Dec 24, 2020)

Boidoh said:


> No, but this isn't a series like The Legend of Zelda. It's Animal Crossing. It's a relatively simple game, and other than with Wild World, every game to this point had improved on each previous entry.


Apologies, I have heard so many different opinions about previous games that I didn't really see a linear improvement. People often cite the original game having the best dialogue and later entries being worse for example; or City Folk being a step back from WW.  Watching that from afar is why I never put on the table that each entry improved upon the latest one, for example. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from 



> It's big for the first month of the game, and maybe for events. Other than that, I rarely, if ever, find the need to craft. For fences and stuff... maybe? For the breakable items - sure, but I can always just buy them too. Terraforming is probably bigger than crafting. Crafting was underdeveloped.


For you and others, it can be big only at times. For me and others, it's big all around. What does that mean? That the mechanic is huge, and the amount of work behind it is massive. It's too bad if you feel it wasn't great, but that doesn't make it a minor mechanic. 

I have heard people say Brewster and the working at the café are little things that get boring but I'm not going to treat that as a fact and disregard the amount of care put on it and the activity it represents for past games.

And yes, terraforming is also bigger. It's not only the fact that you can build anything, but also how it affects villagers' walking AI. That's why I'm talking about, just these three features are huge. And let's add HD development on top of that. And like all the others things that are there but people choose to focus on what isn't there.



> You're proving my point. They are tiny QoL improvements. Actually, some of these "improvements" arguably make the game worse. Part of the charm and appeal for Animal Crossing, for me, was the world itself. The fact that you could only cut your hair at certain times was part of the charm. Being stuck with a face the game gave you - part of the charm too.
> 
> Improved storage... Well, that was long overdue. QoL improvements. Does waiting 7 years warrant that? I also kinda miss the natural paths, the new ones feel too angular. Tanning was cool. I don't like that I can change the colour of my skin, my hair, my gender, and my facial features at the press of a button. That's not how things work in real life. At the very least create new characters/buildings for me to do these.


Those are not tiny QoL... but I kind of understand we may have different concepts of what is big then haha It's ok to miss those old mechanics, other appreciate them being overhauled. That again, doesn't make a game "a discount" one.

However, I strongly disagree with the tanning part. It was absolutely appalling (and racist) that a black person could only represent themselves by "getting burnt by the sun".



> I "like" NH. I play it regularly and I do have fun with it. I just feel as if there was a big missed opportunity for further improvement here. I think my feedback is constructive and logical.


I was speaking in general about the community giving better feedback. But just to say, thinking a feature is lame just because you don't like it is not constructive criticism. There are some feedbacks or so that are kind of confusing from the outside, you know? Like you say there are no room on the museum for you to decorate, but you don't address that on the other hand we get a full house at Harvey's to decorate (where we can even invite villagers and do photoshoots and whatnot). It's like the same thing, but one isn't being counted?

It's like people complaining about shorter dialogue and then accepting they ignore Blather's or they ignoring the heavy dialogue present on Toy Day today. It's... confusing haha (and to clarify, it's not that you said this, I'm only trying to point out why lots of "they should have listened" is weird). Or thinking games should cost the same "because we're geting less content" when that's not how pricing, development and the world in general work. The game, as everything, has lots of flaws and content that can/should be added, but most of the great feedback is lost on the waves of bad complaining.



> You misunderstood. I said Splatoon 2 was "Splatoon.... 2". That's what it felt like. (Like the original Splatoon, but more refined) Yes, I know there are a lot of small improvements, similar to NH, but a sequel (especially one that isn't a frequent release) shouldn't have to need hardcore fans to outline the tiniest of improvements or changes as warranting its existence.


Welp, I think we just different concepts of what a sequel is then.


Overall, I also find kind of... sad? that many people use the "new players don't understand" card. It's like the meme of "oh, you think you are a fan of a band? Tell me the names of 150 songs by them" haha. You're telling me that if I played "x" game of the series I wouldn't like this one as much because I'll be seeing the truth? Come on xD


Anyways, Happy Toy Day everyone. Hope you can enjoy playing the games you like the most!


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## Locokoko182 (Dec 24, 2020)

daringred_ said:


> not going to lie, but i always thought that NL did this system better with the MEOW coupons. granted, you could only do three tasks a day, but that stopped them from stacking up so quickly and becoming as obsolete as they have in NH. there were also (i'm pretty sure) vastly more items for them to be spent on. you had harvey's rotating two daily items, the guaranteed daily NPC RV, and then any other RV you decided to invite with an amiibo card or figure. imo if they wanted to keep NMTs and the related tasks relevant as time went on, they should've continued adding more items or perks that could be bought with them.
> 
> Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2020
> 
> ...



Oh, I did misunderstand you lol. That makes sense. They probably felt they couldn’t delay it due to pressure, or because they didn’t want to say last minute “hey, we’re delaying it a year and a half” when the pandemic was coming out and so many people were begging for it to help them feel better. Twitter was full of people saying they needed it to get through the year.

if they added in the RV thing  that would be cool. Like it came via ferry. Or just a personalized Tent selling stuff for miles like before


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## Vonny (Dec 24, 2020)

New Horizons is exhausting.  Crafting, events, balloons, breakable tools,  you wake up to a huge mess everyday (sticks everywhere and god forbid if it rained the day before) slow loading times (might be the same as NL not sure?).   It’s not the Animal Crossing I love.  

Plus not to mention all the stripped away content that’s slowly being added back.   The graphics are nice,  the level of control you have is nice but Animal Crossing is supposed to be relaxing, not feel like a grind.  It took me years to get sick of each other game but I’m already burnt out with NH and force myself to play everyday so I don’t miss Redd or Celeste.


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## Boidoh (Dec 24, 2020)

daringred_ said:


> not going to lie, but i always thought that NL did this system better with the MEOW coupons. granted, you could only do three tasks a day, but that stopped them from stacking up so quickly and becoming as obsolete as they have in NH. there were also (i'm pretty sure) vastly more items for them to be spent on. you had harvey's rotating two daily items, the guaranteed daily NPC RV, and then any other RV you decided to invite with an amiibo card or figure. imo if they wanted to keep NMTs and the related tasks relevant as time went on, they should've continued adding more items or perks that could be bought with them.



Ahhhhh!!! I didn't play much after the amiibo update - but I did remember liking that quite a bit, and checking on Wisp, and playing the extra games. You might be right.



RollingAntony said:


> Apologies, I have heard so many different opinions about previous games that I didn't really see a linear improvement. People often cite the original game having the best dialogue and later entries being worse for example; or City Folk being a step back from WW. Watching that from afar is why I never put on the table that each entry improved upon the latest one, for example. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from



Well, it depends on what you value as content I suppose. I did find my self not talking to much Villagers in NH - but that might be because after playing NL for so long I assumed I already knew what they were going to say. They felt more like a NPC++ than a living thing.



RollingAntony said:


> For you and others, it can be big only at times. For me and others, it's big all around. What does that mean? That the mechanic is huge, and the amount of work behind it is massive. It's too bad if you feel it wasn't great, but that doesn't make it a minor mechanic.
> 
> I have heard people say Brewster and the working at the café are little things that get boring but I'm not going to treat that as a fact and disregard the amount of care put on it and the activity it represents for past games.
> 
> And yes, terraforming is also bigger. It's not only the fact that you can build anything, but also how it affects villagers' walking AI. That's why I'm talking about, just these three features are huge. And let's add HD development on top of that. And like all the others things that are there but people choose to focus on what isn't there.



I don't think I called it a minor mechanic, but rather that there were only 3 major additions. I don't personally feel they affect the game much, but I think that the addition of crafting, outside items and terraforming are the distinguishing characteristics of NH from previous entries in the series. As mentioned before, the additions are fine, but, for every new thing they add, a chunk of things are taken away. 



RollingAntony said:


> Those are not tiny QoL... but I kind of understand we may have different concepts of what is big then haha It's ok to miss those old mechanics, other appreciate them being overhauled. That again, doesn't make a game "a discount" one.
> 
> However, I strongly disagree with the tanning part. It was absolutely appalling (and racist) that a black person could only represent themselves by "getting burnt by the sun".



The "discount" term was hyperbole. I'm glad it did it's job to rile up the opposition though - makes for fierce and interesting debate.

I'm Hispanic and I have brown skin. I didn't really feel bothered by not being able to pick my skin colour. I mean, if you want the feature so badly, they could have made you choose it at the start - and you either stick with it forever, or later on some location opens up where you can change it. Keep in tanning to an extent, so that the summer sun feels impactful... There can be a middle ground. I don't think it's racist at all.



RollingAntony said:


> Like you say there are no room on the museum for you to decorate, but you don't address that on the other hand we get a full house at Harvey's to decorate (where we can even invite villagers and do photoshoots and whatnot). It's like the same thing, but one isn't being counted?



Ahh, I must have missed this one. Was this in from the start of the game? Or was it added with the Wedding update I missed out on? It felt so far away from the rest of the game that I think I went once, never messed around with it, and forgot it existed.

But... if I recall. Isn't that catalogue furniture? Or does it use inventory items?



RollingAntony said:


> But just to say, thinking a feature is lame just because you don't like it is not constructive criticism.



I get you're speaking in general here, but, as clarification, if I mentioned something (like the museum rooms), it was just an off-hand compilation of things I could easily recall are missing from New Leaf. The general thought process here is "things were added to New Horizons, but a lot was removed". Picking apart if I think crafting is amazing or not is a bit irrelevant here (which I don't think it is). 



Vonny said:


> New Horizons is exhausting. Crafting, events, balloons, breakable tools, you wake up to a huge mess everyday (sticks everywhere and god forbid if it rained the day before) slow loading times (might be the same as NL not sure?). It’s not the Animal Crossing I love.



Yep. Those sticks are really ugly. Would rather deal with messy paths than having to clean up those everyday.


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## Antonio (Dec 24, 2020)

The game isn't a discount new leaf, it's more like a recode of NL. I loved new leaf and I agree, when comparing the two, new horizons is lacking in some content. However, a lot of people are forgetting that moving from NL to NH isn't as simple as drag me over and resize model. NL runs on a 3DS, with low quality models and less of a need for detail. New Horizons is the first game in the series to be in HD, meaning they had to redesign a lot of the 3DS content to look higher quality which takes ALOT OF TIME. I mean, look at the new details on villagers and how HD everything is. They obviously are putting as much detail into every aspect of the game, especially the little things. 

Plus when you combine the new features, dialogue, and design of the game, it makes sense why they had so much done on release compared. They are pouring their heart and soul with every little detail but that takes time and I rather the game be looking as good as it does now then having them only slightly adjusting the model with all those features back. 

Fun Fact: This game uses more space then the 3DS version.


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## JKDOS (Dec 24, 2020)

Boidoh said:


> I'm sure I'm missing some things, but, all in all, New Horizons feels like an HD trimmed down version of New Leaf. In some ways, it feels like a "Wild World" to the original GCN game. So many good things are gone....



it almost feels like an imitation of Animal Crossing. In some cases they've taken a step forwards, but also a step sideways and backwards

	Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2020



RollingAntony said:


> People expecting different things from what the game turned out to be doesn't mean the game is unfinished



If you look at everything that was released post v1.0.0, the game was most definitely unfinished. There wasn't even holidays in v1.0.0. There wasn't Art/redd, and there wasn't diving. There wasn't dreaming. This list will grow as they continue to put content in that should have been since released (Likely things like Brewster/roost, re-tail, etc)


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## Rika092 (Dec 24, 2020)

Cannot deny that NH has been lackluster comparing to NL. It feels like a lot of the NL elements are still missing in NH. Gyroids, brewster, police station, ability to customize building exteriors..etc. That said, I’m fairly certain the groundwork has already been made, it’s just that those content hasn’t been released to be playable yet. Perhaps it’s intentional that Nintendo wanted to keep this way and slowly release new content through monthly updates in order to keep players’ interests hooked, but to me they didn’t do this in the right way. Rather than coming up with real, creative contents or DLCs to engage the players, they purposely held back stuff/mechanisms that could’ve been in game since day 1. Just made them look lazy to be honest.

Terraforming is probably the biggest difference to NL and I have to say I do quite enjoy it. I wouldn’t consider it to be an upgrade to NL though because clearly you can make gameplay engaging even without it. The DIY mechanism is just meh to me - I guess it’s nice that you could crafts as many items as you wanted for a given DIY, but the fact that the seasonal DIYs are only largely obtainable from balloons and that regular DIYs are so easily redundant makes collecting them really annoying. In my mind the biggest improvements to NL are, like you said, mostly Quality of life related indeed only (such as able to move villager/shop/house placements, finally having transparent color in custom designs), and graphics.


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## tajikey (Dec 24, 2020)

It's awesome how a game can be so loved and divisive at the same time. For me, the game is borderline perfect, and is the game in which I've sunk the largest amount of time since I first sat down in front of the Commodore 64 (I suppose that ages me a bit).

My first AC experience was Wild World, so I didn't have any expectations built from the original game on the Gamecube. I then followed each iteration over the various consoles, and find this one, ACNH, to be my favorite by a landslide. Personally, it's not lacking a single thing. I engage with the game daily, check things off my mental list, then go on with my day. 

My (our?) progression through the game was grossly accelerated due to the pandemic, leaving Nintendo seemingly holding the bag for a game we feel is rushed or unfinished. It's neither of those, at least not as far as I can tell.

And ACNH is not a "Discount New Leaf" by any stretch of the imagination, it's just that our expectations perhaps were not met when we "only" got new things like decorating outdoors, crafting, and terraforming (all series-changing, yet often overlooked because of a "lack" of Brewster, or various furniture sets). 

I respect that you have feelings and an opinion on the subject, but don't see it anywhere near the same as you. See what I mean, both loved and divisive.


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## JKDOS (Dec 24, 2020)

Rika092 said:


> That said, I’m fairly certain the groundwork has already been made, it’s just that those content hasn’t been released to be playable yet. Perhaps it’s intentional that Nintendo wanted to keep this way and slowly release new content through monthly updates in order to keep players’ interests hooked



I see a lot people say something like this, but New Horizons isn't a paid subscription like game, there is literally no reason to keep players hooked by releasing a piece more of the game every 2-3 months. All Nintendo needs is to sell copies of the game and that's it. And hey, maybe some improvements/fixes here and there and real DLC content. At least to me, it makes no sense to draw it out on purpose


I'm going into humor mode now, enjoy New Horizons explained with a restaurant: 

Imagine going to a restaurant and ordering a meal, but they only bring out on a small portion of the meal every 2-3 months. After 1-2 years, they have finally brought you your entire meal, but they didn't give you any silverware cause they want eating your meal to be a little be a little monotonous, frustrating, and irritating. When you ask the server why it took so long to get the food, he says "We want to keep our customers in our restaurant longer. If we had given you your entire meal to begin with, you would have just eaten it and left"


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## AssassinVicz (Dec 24, 2020)

Boidoh said:


> Yes... They are different games. But they don't exist in a vacuum. Nintendo fans should be allowed to criticize Nintendo and call them out for their laziness in recent titles. To say that "the reason NL features don't exist in NH is to keep things fresh" is ridiculous - especially when data mines reveal certain things like the Roost (or as the past showed, art/diving/bushes) are coming in future updates.



People are allowed to criticise games and I did state the New Horizons has issues.

As for the ‘lazeiness’ comment... In my opinion that’s a pretty harsh comment considering that New Horizons is no where near a lazy title. It allows the basic functions of an animal crossing game. Bugs, fishing, fossils, balloons, diving, art, redd, buying furniture, expanding your house etc. It improves features like more daily npc’s such as CJ and Flick offering a higher fish and big price for the day, Wisp offering an additional item, Celeste Giving a special diy item. Savannah, Lief and kicks all offering items which are exclusive to them. You can move villager homes and npc run places to where ever you want. Your inventory is vastly bigger, meaning more slots to store items in...

That’s just a few examples so, I don’t see how that’s lazy?

As for the _‘”the reason NL features don't exist in NH is to keep things fresh" is ridiculous’. _There’s a reason why some new leaf features aren’t in new horizons. A lot of the stores in Main Street, wouldn’t fit in with the island get away vibe and considering how large the buildings looked, half of your island would just be buildings.
Tortimer island is defiantly a feature that I would like to see come back, especially since there’s a dock with nothing on it. It fits the island get away theme.

It is to keep things fresh. The city theme has been done twice (in a row), in city folk/lets go to the city and again in new leaf with Main Street. If they did it again, then it’s just repeating the same thing with different graphics. 

Just my thoughts.


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## tajikey (Dec 24, 2020)

JKDOS said:


> I see a lot people say something like this, but New Horizons isn't a paid subscription like game, there is literally no reason to keep players hooked by releasing a piece more of the game every 2-3 months. All Nintendo needs is to sell copies of the game and that's it. And hey, maybe some improvements/fixes here and there and real DLC content. At least to me, it makes no sense to draw it out on purpose
> 
> 
> I'm going into humor mode now, enjoy New Horizons explained with a restaurant:
> ...


But why wouldn't Nintendo want to keep their existing userbase engaged by releasing new updates with additions and QoL changes? The responsibility of selling to new users is no longer Nintendo's, it's streamers advertising through their videos, and us telling our friends, posting on Twitter, or making our own videos about how much the game has changed from release to now.

I'm an optimist by nature, and a firm believer in the power of both Nintendo and the AC series.


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## JKDOS (Dec 25, 2020)

tajikey said:


> But why wouldn't Nintendo want to keep their existing userbase engaged by releasing new updates with additions and QoL changes? The responsibility of selling to new users is no longer Nintendo's, it's streamers advertising through their videos, and us telling our friends, posting on Twitter, or making our own videos about how much the game has changed from release to now.
> 
> I'm an optimist by nature, and a firm believer in the power of both Nintendo and the AC series.



There's a difference between QOL and Features. TBH, I can't remember any QOL updates in NH other than the fix to special visitors spawning, and a tiny fix to Sahara's dialogue.. Things like holidays, Redd/Art, Diving, Pascal, Dreaming, Leif,  have all been features. A QOL would be bulk crafting, better dialogue with airlines, better loading times in multiplayer, better tool durability, options for storing DIYs, storing flowers, new paths, declining duplicate DIYs from villagers, crafting from storage, shopping cart at Abel Sisters, more design slots, more islands per Switch, etc. We haven't gotten any of those, but I wouldn't mind waiting and getting them after release. New feature updates are fine, but if the feature update was something we should have had to begin with, that's where the problem is. They give us stuff like Redd months after the game released when other AC games had him on release. Redd isn't technically new. So it's cheap. When New Leaf released Welcome Amiibo, that was a true feature update. It introduced new things to the series, like Meow Coupons, Amiibos, RV Campsite, Harvey, and a few other minor things.

Again, there is no reason to keep the fan base engaged since we've all already paid for the game at the end of the day.  It's evident we are still engaged in New Leaf, and have been years after it released. Bandwagon fans may leave, but most of us here wouldn't. We'd still be playing New Horizons even after the next Animal Crossing releases.


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## RollingAntony (Dec 25, 2020)

Boidoh said:


> Well, it depends on what you value as content I suppose. I did find my self not talking to much Villagers in NH - but that might be because after playing NL for so long I assumed I already knew what they were going to say. They felt more like a NPC++ than a living thing.


Yup, our own perception of the value of the content is what usually tends to make a difference.



> I don't think I called it a minor mechanic, but rather that there were only 3 major additions. I don't personally feel they affect the game much, but I think that the addition of crafting, outside items and terraforming are the distinguishing characteristics of NH from previous entries in the series. As mentioned before, the additions are fine, but, for every new thing they add, a chunk of things are taken away.


Oh yeah, it's a sad reality that many things were indeed taken out. I just think that people usually don't realize the extent and the importance of the usual "main 3" new features. I can't obviously know, but I'm pretty sure they made the developers reinvent the formula completely.



> I'm Hispanic and I have brown skin. I didn't really feel bothered by not being able to pick my skin colour. I mean, if you want the feature so badly, they could have made you choose it at the start - and you either stick with it forever, or later on some location opens up where you can change it. Keep in tanning to an extent, so that the summer sun feels impactful... There can be a middle ground. I don't think it's racist at all.


Sure, we can keep tanning but yeah, the whole mechanics tied to it were :$ I'm just glad Nintendo/AC team has made the game much more inclusive than ever.



> Ahh, I must have missed this one. Was this in from the start of the game? Or was it added with the Wedding update I missed out on? It felt so far away from the rest of the game that I think I went once, never messed around with it, and forgot it existed.
> 
> But... if I recall. Isn't that catalogue furniture? Or does it use inventory items?


It's been there from the start. And yes, you can use all the furniture catalogued, which makes it fantastic for a multitude of things: you can mix n' match until you find something you like easily and then decorate your own house, you can make little scenarios with your villagers to play with, etc. It's a fun feature! I really enjoyed seeing others unleash their creative with the Wedding event and keep enjoying how many people use it to throw welcome/goodbye parties to villagers and more.



> I get you're speaking in general here, but, as clarification, if I mentioned something (like the museum rooms), it was just an off-hand compilation of things I could easily recall are missing from New Leaf. The general thought process here is "things were added to New Horizons, but a lot was removed". Picking apart if I think crafting is amazing or not is a bit irrelevant here (which I don't think it is).


Yeah, I know there are lots of missing things and I hope some come back or new things keep coming. It's just that it's sometimes discouraging that the general comments about the game tend to be about what is missing only and/or minimizing the positives. I remember a popular youtuber straight up referring to the new variety of actions the villagers perform as "Instagram-bait" things and completely ignoring them for example. I thought all the actions were adorable and made the island feel alive, and watching them be disregarded so easily just to "prove" that NH wasn't good was weird.



2-D said:


> The game isn't a discount new leaf, it's more like a recode of NL. I loved new leaf and I agree, when comparing the two, new horizons is lacking in some content. However, a lot of people are forgetting that moving from NL to NH isn't as simple as drag me over and resize model. NL runs on a 3DS, with low quality models and less of a need for detail. New Horizons is the first game in the series to be in HD, meaning they had to redesign a lot of the 3DS content to look higher quality which takes ALOT OF TIME. I mean, look at the new details on villagers and how HD everything is. They obviously are putting as much detail into every aspect of the game, especially the little things.
> 
> Plus when you combine the new features, dialogue, and design of the game, it makes sense why they had so much done on release compared. They are pouring their heart and soul with every little detail but that takes time and I rather the game be looking as good as it does now then having them only slightly adjusting the model with all those features back.
> 
> Fun Fact: This game uses more space then the 3DS version.


Yes. The move to HD is hard, and we know for a fact that the team at least reviewed (and tweaked) the designs of all 380+ villagers and they also had to redo all the furniture from scratch. It's not as easy as people seem to think and it's almost a feature by itself.



JKDOS said:


> If you look at everything that was released post v1.0.0, the game was most definitely unfinished. There wasn't even holidays in v1.0.0. There wasn't Art/redd, and there wasn't diving. There wasn't dreaming. This list will grow as they continue to put content in that should have been since released (Likely things like Brewster/roost, re-tail, etc)


The key problem here is: what is the definition of "should have been released from the start". Who decides that? The fans that have wildly different expectations? Holidays not being on 1.0 was a deliberate choice, not an indicative of a game being unfinished. Ever since the first information was presented, they were clear about the game made with free DLC in mind (and maybe paid DLC).

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think NH had troubled development- a delay tends to be solid proof of that. However, they did release a finished product that was going to get beefier when the free updates hit. We probably won't never know the full story, but it's almost clear that NH was needed for Nintendo's 2019/2020 FY and March was the last month they could delay the release. With the GaaS-like model already planned for the game, the things aligned and they could launch a game with the "basic" Animal Crossing features and the new ones; and keep developing new/returning things later. Unfortunately, a little pandemic may have made the planned updates slower and thinner. Nintendo didn't expect the numbers this monster is doing, so I'm also expecting that previous plans have been heavily adjusted.

For better or worse, the gambit has payed off. Even if say, half of the buyers of ACNH don't like the game (be old fans or new fans) and the other half likes it, the game already has more people "happy" than all previous entries.



JKDOS said:


> I see a lot people say something like this, but New Horizons isn't a paid subscription like game, there is literally no reason to keep players hooked by releasing a piece more of the game every 2-3 months. All Nintendo needs is to sell copies of the game and that's it. And hey, maybe some improvements/fixes here and there and real DLC content. At least to me, it makes no sense to draw it out on purpose
> 
> 
> I'm going into humor mode now, enjoy New Horizons explained with a restaurant:
> ...


It's because NH has a GaaS-like model. "Game as a service" is how some games are made, and although not a 1:1 mostly because the revenue isn't coming from updates, the approach is similar. When NH release was approaching, people always talked about how Animal Crossing was a game you could pick up anytime, put it down and return a week later or so. The same concept applies to the updates and how they are being managed.

For better or worse, this approach also means that some of the perceived problems of things that weren't there on the beginning are only noted by early adopters. 15+ million people played the game without art and bushes at first (which only came a month later at worst), but there are also 13+ million and counting who don't have the same issue.

Don't get me wrong, this is certainly a divided and heavily debated topic! Some people feel that this shouldn't happen while others think it's a high-risk high-reward but great strategy. There is even discussion about how games with hefty post-launch content should be reviewed.


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## DJStarstryker (Dec 25, 2020)

I'm enjoying it well enough. There's certain aspects about NH that I honestly wish were in NL. The amount of outdoor customization in NH is the primary example. But overall, I agree. NL did feel like a more full experience. Here we are 9 months after launch and the game still feels like a Steam early access game or something, where it's incomplete.

Unfortunately that feeling has disappointed me enough that I don't see myself ever buying an AC game again. If I do, it will be sometime after launch and it will have to be proven to be a complete game.


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## JKDOS (Dec 25, 2020)

RollingAntony said:


> The key problem here is: what is the definition of "should have been released from the start". Who decides that? The fans that have wildly different expectations? Holidays not being on 1.0 was a deliberate choice, not an indicative of a game being unfinished. Ever since the first information was presented, they were clear about the game made with free DLC in mind (and maybe paid DLC).



Deliberate choice or not, it doesn't need debating to say Holidays belong in an Animal Crossing and should have been in all at the start. Nintendo did leave it out, and if you buy a brand new copy of the game and don't update, they aren't there. That alone constitutes proof they released an unfinished game.

In regards to Redd/Art, Diving, Dreaming, Lief, etc. All of these existed in New Leaf. They are nothing new. Nintendo deliberately waited until nature day to give us Lief, waited until August to give us Fireworks, summer to give us diving, and the habit continues with each and every update we've received (not counting patches).  What decides what should or shouldn't be in from release would have to be true new content and content that was unexpected. We all could have guessed Diving was coming at some point. Want an example of what true new and unexpected content? Look at Welcome Amiibo update for New Leaf. They literally cut a new hole in our town cliff and added an RV Campsite. I don't know if you played the original New Leaf, but Harvey's camping area literally never existed before the update.


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## DJStarstryker (Dec 25, 2020)

RollingAntony said:


> It's because NH has a GaaS-like model. "Game as a service" is how some games are made, and although not a 1:1 mostly because the revenue isn't coming from updates, the approach is similar. When NH release was approaching, people always talked about how Animal Crossing was a game you could pick up anytime, put it down and return a week later or so. The same concept applies to the updates and how they are being managed.
> 
> For better or worse, this approach also means that some of the perceived problems of things that weren't there on the beginning are only noted by early adopters. 15+ million people played the game without art and bushes at first (which only came a month later at worst), but there are also 13+ million and counting who don't have the same issue.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, this is certainly a divided and heavily debated topic! Some people feel that this shouldn't happen while others think it's a high-risk high-reward but great strategy. There is even discussion about how games with hefty post-launch content should be reviewed.



I agree with this post, but I want to say that GaaS feels like it only works well in games that are generally paid in some way or another - either it's subscription-based like an MMO, or it's one of those free to play games that makes money off of selling skins or other in-game content. New content keeps players coming back and therefore paying.

The closest thing I can think of that is similar to what Nintendo is doing with NH is games like Terraria and Stardew Valley - games that received (or, in Stardew Valley's case, still receiving) free updates every so often and the only $ you paid was for the game itself the one time when you bought it. But the big difference is Terraria and Stardew Valley were complete games even at launch. I haven't played Terraria myself, but for Stardew Valley you can be perfectly happy playing the original release of the game and get so much fun out of it without feeling like something is missing. The new content that's been added over the years feels like tons of icing on the cake. 

NH felt incomplete at launch and, frankly, still feels incomplete even with updates every few months since then. The updates honestly don't contain that much new content. I played NL for years before the big Welcome amiibo update came out. NL felt perfectly fine without it. At this pace of adding small pieces to the game, will even another whole year make the game feel more complete? I don't know.

I have no clue what Nintendo is even trying to do. It makes no logical sense to me as a longtime gamer and as an AC fan.


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## DrewAC (Dec 25, 2020)

I’ve played every single Animal Crossing entry thus far. New Horizons is probably going to end up being my most played and most enjoyed.

I think it’s easy to overlook many of the things New Horizons implements and does incredibly well compared to the predecessors. Getting the obvious out of the way, the graphics. Everything is stunningly designed and looks absolutely beautiful. This is so important in a game all about customization and collecting. Let’s face it, a huge part of Animal Crossing is aesthetic. And virtually all of the objects have physics, so if you place them outside on a windy day, you’re going to see that be reflected in the object. Not even The Sims on PC has physics in objects, hair, clothing, and furniture like ACNH does, and I would imagine a huge amount of development time went into the graphics and physics of objects and clothing.

Graphics aren’t everything though, so let’s talk more about the gameplay, again, with an obvious topic – crafting. Some people love it, others not so much, but I personally enjoy it very much. Aside from adding a ton of gameplay hours, customization, and collecting to my game, it’s done *massive *wonders for the online community, which has never been livelier and more active, primarily thanks to crafting. A huge amount of my gameplay hours are spent meeting people from trade websites and trading materials, crafting services for bells/NMT, and more of the sort. And this is all enhanced by the new features they’ve implemented like Dodo codes. Try going back to New Leaf without them and having to use friend codes again. I know I couldn’t.

And that ties into my next thing — quality of life improvements and gameplay improvements. They’re everywhere with this game. Remember how annoying it was trying to place public work projects around using Isabelle? Waiting days/weeks/months/years for villagers to finally request that one public work project you wanted? Remember how limited our choices were with customizing how our town looked? Having to slowly walk around to prevent grass decay? Villagers leaving on their own, random accord? Building and rock placement? Town hall/train station colors out of sync? All, and so much more I haven’t even listed have been remedied, or fixed entirely, providing more player control. As for gameplay improvments, I think of how the gameplay of ACNL was primarily just a ridiculous bell grind for millions of bells to unlock everything from features, to shops, to PWPs, and so on. You were simply going to the same, eternally summer, tiny island and grinding the same exact beetles and fish year round over and over again. Unlocking features, objects, etc. in ACNH feels so much more fulfilling because it isn’t just a grind for bells anymore, thanks to many factors such as crafting. 

I’m going to cut my post short even though I‘d like to continue because I’m going to end up writing a 5 page, MLA-certified essay at this point, lol. But, really, play ACNL for a week again, and I think many, if not all, would find themselves a little frustrated towards the end, or even sooner. And, dont get me wrong, I love ACNL and I do miss plenty of things from it. It’s full of charm and was super fun during its time. But I definitely feel some overlook both the quality and quantity of improvements ACNH brings to the series because they think having a night club you ended up never usin aside from one day of the week is better than what we got instead. I still want things like the cafe, dedicated post office, and multiplayer/solo mini games to return, but I am very happy with what they did with this game. I’m happy they are going to likely support it, for free, longer than any other AC game. It’s so needed considering how long the gaps have gotten between games.


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## Monokuma73 (Dec 25, 2020)

DrewAC said:


> I’ve played every single Animal Crossing entry thus far. New Horizons is probably going to end up being my most played and most enjoyed.
> 
> I think it’s easy to overlook many of the things New Horizons implements and does incredibly well compared to the predecessors. Getting the obvious out of the way, the graphics. Everything is stunningly designed and looks absolutely beautiful. This is so important in a game all about customization and collecting. Let’s face it, a huge part of Animal Crossing is aesthetic. And virtually all of the objects have physics, so if you place them outside on a windy day, you’re going to see that be reflected in the object. Not even The Sims on PC has physics in objects, hair, clothing, and furniture like ACNH does, and I would imagine a huge amount of development time went into the graphics and physics of objects and clothing.



Sure, graphics has been improved, but shall we expect Nintendo 3DS resolution in "next gen console"? Let's be realistic.
Graphics (New Leaf Style) has been improved already in 2015:




However Wii U version of AC has failed as a game, as we already know.
I agree (partially) about physics, design - but many of those has been pointless, as example I can give a arcade-pinball machines, where we can almost-play... oh no... we can't play! We just pretending we playing. It was a waste of something what could be used in the game.
If you remember in Game Cube version of AC we had access to several actual games, fully playable. Now, we can just buy pinballs, arcade machines and do... nothing than admiring them and semi-interacting. If we can call it improvements, I definitely disagree with this.
All accessible furnitures giving us ability changing clothes... including REFRIGERATORS! What a big improvements! In real life never had any clothes in place like this... maybe I should change it? Outdoor lights? It gives almost nothing to the scenery... we could expect much more, as lights are nothing new and could be done much better.



DrewAC said:


> Graphics aren’t everything though, so let’s talk more about the gameplay, again, with an obvious topic – crafting. Some people love it, others not so much, but I personally enjoy it very much. Aside from adding a ton of gameplay hours, customization, and collecting to my game, it’s done *massive *wonders for the online community, which has never been livelier and more active, primarily thanks to crafting. A huge amount of my gameplay hours are spent meeting people from trade websites and trading materials, crafting services for bells/NMT, and more of the sort. And this is all enhanced by the new features they’ve implemented like Dodo codes. Try going back to New Leaf without them and having to use friend codes again. I know I couldn’t.


Crafting could be fun... but if it's not limited as we have. We have to craft tools, or we can buy them - so at some point crafting becomes almost not necessary and we can stop it completely. From time to time, we may be encouraged to craft something, because of the season or upcoming events... but it's not enough... and finally we have limited space on our island.



DrewAC said:


> And that ties into my next thing — quality of life improvements and gameplay improvements. They’re everywhere with this game. Remember how annoying it was trying to place public work projects around using Isabelle? Waiting days/weeks/months/years for villagers to finally request that one public work project you wanted? Remember how limited our choices were with customizing how our town looked? Having to slowly walk around to prevent grass decay? Villagers leaving on their own, random accord? Building and rock placement? Town hall/train station colors out of sync? All, and so much more I haven’t even listed have been remedied, or fixed entirely, providing more player control. As for gameplay improvments, I think of how the gameplay of ACNL was primarily just a ridiculous bell grind for millions of bells to unlock everything from features, to shops, to PWPs, and so on. You were simply going to the same, eternally summer, tiny island and grinding the same exact beetles and fish year round over and over again. Unlocking features, objects, etc. in ACNH feels so much more fulfilling because it isn’t just a grind for bells anymore, thanks to many factors such as crafting.



Sure, limitations in NL may drive players crazy. But... can we use this as justification for something was wrong or unpleasant in predecessors? Sure, NL was focused on grinding, but at least it serves some purpose... but now, long-playing-players having millions of bells, thousands of miles and only one purpose is just to look at their accounts and observe how "money grows". Is it really improvements?



DrewAC said:


> I’m going to cut my post short even though I‘d like to continue because I’m going to end up writing a 5 page, MLA-certified essay at this point, lol. But, really, play ACNL for a week again, and I think many, if not all, would find themselves a little frustrated towards the end, or even sooner. And, dont get me wrong, I love ACNL and I do miss plenty of things from it. It’s full of charm and was super fun during its time. But I definitely feel some overlook both the quality and quantity of improvements ACNH brings to the series because they think having a night club you ended up never usin aside from one day of the week is better than what we got instead. I still want things like the cafe, dedicated post office, and multiplayer/solo mini games to return, but I am very happy with what they did with this game. I’m happy they are going to likely support it, for free, longer than any other AC game. It’s so needed considering how long the gaps have gotten between games.



Nintendo must have knowledge how popular was NL and what players liked or disliked. I want to remind, AC failed after NL not a once, but twice - releasing HHD and board game for Wii U. They had more than enough time to to their homework.
NH in the day of the release could be considered as unfinished BETA, but not as fully release. Summer update with diving? It was literally the same, as we had in NL - there was nothing amazing in this, no underwater scenery, just water and rocks... in 2020... what a big improvement. As an example we could compare how underwater looks in Breath of the Wild on Wii U - so console previous generation was more than strong to generate environment like this.
Another thing... lack of customisable controls in NH - camera work inside houses are made in their way, which is not acceptable for all.
Hidden objects behind the trees was made better in NL than in NH...
... and finally, as we may read about "statement of future" of NH - new updates will give us almost nothing and it may be just something really unnecessary for daily game playing.


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## daringred_ (Dec 25, 2020)

forgot to add this last night, but one of the other main reasons i vastly prefer NL is the progression. after the initial week in NH, and getting the three stars to unlock terraforming (which doesn't take much longer, frankly), that's pretty much it. NL's progression was so much more spread out and better paced, and i always felt like i achieved something and had new goals to strive for even over a year in. that's definitely not the case with NH. i had everything you could do done within a month. (museum exhibits and various gold tools excluded for obvious reasons.) all that's left is waiting for them to periodically add events, and there's only one (two if they include April fool's) big one left to wait for.


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## Sheydra (Dec 25, 2020)

having only played new leaf and new horizons I feel one major difference between them. I stopped new leaf because it felt like a job, I had to get on or loose Too much. New horizons is much more relaxing for me personally, I don’t feel I have to get on with it.


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## Rosch (Dec 25, 2020)

daringred_ said:


> forgot to add this last night, but one of the other main reasons i vastly prefer NL is the progression.



This. I don't wanna be sappy and all, but seeing and having my town tree fully grown on NL made me cry when the credits rolled. I never TT'd on NL so having the role of "mayor" and seeing my town slowly develop over time had more impact to me, compared to having a to-do list just to invite a celebrity. NL's approach to achieving something felt more satisfying.

New Horizons is great, and I could see myself playing it continuously for another year, but it's a love and hate relationship with this game. DIYs are great. But the seasonal recipe grind is a huge turn-off. It's cool to have something to look forward to thanks to periodic updates, but waiting for missing characters and features to return who knows when can be tiresome. Graphics and details are amazing. Terraforming is fun. Characters and their roles are dumbed down. Customization is expansive. Events are simplified, etc. This game is amazing but disappointing at the same time.

NL sucks with random villager plots, grass deterioration, wilting flowers, etc. But the content is still far greater. Of course, this opinion may change when NH is "fully compete". But for now, New Leaf still wins for me.


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## niko@kamogawa (Dec 25, 2020)

Your thread title sounds really harsh. I can definitely understand your frustration. In fact, I won't deny that the game has a lot of "missed opportunities."

Personally myself, I am just another unpopular opinion. I prefer this game over New Leaf. It's simply because of the vibrant graphics and music. In fact, I poured more hours in this game than New Leaf. I also enjoyed the online aspect of this game as well.

I also have a few complaints. However, I firmly believe that Nintendo can still improve this game. Hopefully, you will give this game another chance.


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## Kalle (Dec 25, 2020)

Here's *jvsjeff*'s list of special characters that each game introduced (excluding the first game for obvious reasons):






And the list for special characters each game removed:





You can watch the full video *here*.



Boidoh said:


> This, right here. In a vacuum it's an excellent game. Ignoring history and progress in the series. It's really amazing - which is probably why so many new fans are enjoying it so much. Putting it into perspective though, a lot of the flaws start to show.
> 
> I'd agree with your ranking as well...  I'd say:
> 
> ...



Though I can't technically rank City Folk because I've never played it, I agree with you and* StarlitGlitch *on your rankings.


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## DrewAC (Dec 25, 2020)

Monokuma73 said:


> Sure, graphics has been improved, but shall we expect Nintendo 3DS resolution in "next gen console"? Let's be realistic.



Sure, let's be realistic. Have you seen Pokemon Sword And Shield? Graphics were terribly disappointing, even though it was a "next gen console." New Horizons looks beautiful in comparison.



Monokuma73 said:


> Graphics (New Leaf Style) has been improved already in 2015:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those graphics are awful compared to ACNH. Sure, it's upscaled, but that's about it. The models aren't nearly as great as ACNH's nor are the textures/shadows/shading. And the reason why the Wii U version of the game did not perform as well is because it was a spin off, not a main series entry.



Monokuma73 said:


> I agree (partially) about physics, design - but many of those has been pointless, as example I can give a arcade-pinball machines, where we can almost-play... oh no... we can't play! We just pretending we playing. It was a waste of something what could be used in the game.
> If you remember in Game Cube version of AC we had access to several actual games, fully playable. Now, we can just buy pinballs, arcade machines and do... nothing than admiring them and semi-interacting. If we can call it improvements, I definitely disagree with this.
> All accessible furnitures giving us ability changing clothes... including REFRIGERATORS! What a big improvements! In real life never had any clothes in place like this... maybe I should change it? Outdoor lights? It gives almost nothing to the scenery... we could expect much more, as lights are nothing new and could be done much better.



Physics doesn't mean interactivity. I'm referring to things like trees, clothing, objects, particles, etc. moving with wind or even simulated wind through objects such as fans. That's really impressive stuff, and it does matter, it isn't pointless to many of us, including myself. Just because you cannot directly interact with an object with an NES game (because of Nintendo's choice to bundle them w/ NSO) doesn't mean that it's not important for the object to look good. This is a game all about decorating and collecting. Objects should look great, and they do in New Horizons.



Monokuma73 said:


> Crafting could be fun... but if it's not limited as we have. We have to craft tools, or we can buy them - so at some point crafting becomes almost not necessary and we can stop it completely. From time to time, we may be encouraged to craft something, because of the season or upcoming events... but it's not enough... and finally we have limited space on our island.



Crafting is always relevant to gameplay, whether you're using flimsy tools or golden tools. Collecting materials, farming ores, etc. is as relevant in the beginning as it is in the ending. And, like I was getting at in my original post, it also increases social interaction with other players a ton, and as a result, the player economy and online community hasn't thrived in any other game as well as AC:NH.



Monokuma73 said:


> Sure, limitations in NL may drive players crazy. But... can we use this as justification for something was wrong or unpleasant in predecessors? Sure, NL was focused on grinding, but at least it serves some purpose... but now, long-playing-players having millions of bells, thousands of miles and only one purpose is just to look at their accounts and observe how "money grows". Is it really improvements?



I feel the game is more balanced, personally. Really, the only way you're going to end up with a bank full of millions of bells now is through repeated turnip investing through players with high turnip prices or online trading.



Monokuma73 said:


> Nintendo must have knowledge how popular was NL and what players liked or disliked. I want to remind, AC failed after NL not a once, but twice - releasing HHD and board game for Wii U. They had more than enough time to to their homework.



Again, those are spin off games. They're not designed to outsell or outperform the main series.



Monokuma73 said:


> NH in the day of the release could be considered as unfinished BETA, but not as fully release. Summer update with diving? It was literally the same, as we had in NL - there was nothing amazing in this, no underwater scenery, just water and rocks... in 2020... what a big improvement. As an example we could compare how underwater looks in Breath of the Wild on Wii U - so console previous generation was more than strong to generate environment like this.
> Another thing... lack of customisable controls in NH - camera work inside houses are made in their way, which is not acceptable for all.
> Hidden objects behind the trees was made better in NL than in NH...
> ... and finally, as we may read about "statement of future" of NH - new updates will give us almost nothing and it may be just something really unnecessary for daily game playing.



I didn't feel that way at all. Certainly, having more features at launch is ideal for everyone, but I think the game shipped with enough features before patches came. I've played every single main series game during its prime, and for many reasons I've went into and more, ACNH has kept me more engaged than the others have.

The latter of your post is really just pessimism. There's no way to prove/show new updates will give us nothing and will be unnecessary. Every big update we've gotten so far has been great and improved the game greatly. There's no reason for me to believe it won't continue that way, considering their track record.

As we continue to see more entries in Animal Crossing, we're going to have to become more accustomed to seeing certain things not return in the future, whether it be furniture, NPCs, features, etc. A point does get reached where it's hard for the developers to recreate everything and then try to build a new experience on top of it. And when you have a game that's essentially a carbon copy of the predecessor, it will get boring incredibly fast (look at City Folk). That's why, to compensate for it, every Animal Crossing entry should take risks, and though there is content I would like to see again from past games, I think New Horizons does a fine job at reinventing the wheel. AC:NH sold amazingly well, so I think the future will be brighter than we could imagine for the future of this entry, and the future ones to come.


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## RollingAntony (Dec 25, 2020)

JKDOS said:


> Deliberate choice or not, it doesn't need debating to say Holidays belong in an Animal Crossing and should have been in all at the start. Nintendo did leave it out, and if you buy a brand new copy of the game and don't update, they aren't there. That alone constitutes proof they released an unfinished game.
> 
> In regards to Redd/Art, Diving, Dreaming, Lief, etc. All of these existed in New Leaf. They are nothing new. Nintendo deliberately waited until nature day to give us Lief, waited until August to give us Fireworks, summer to give us diving, and the habit continues with each and every update we've received (not counting patches).  What decides what should or shouldn't be in from release would have to be true new content and content that was unexpected. We all could have guessed Diving was coming at some point. Want an example of what true new and unexpected content? Look at Welcome Amiibo update for New Leaf. They literally cut a new hole in our town cliff and added an RV Campsite. I don't know if you played the original New Leaf, but Harvey's camping area literally never existed before the update.


I'm not saying holidays don't belong on AC, I'm just pointing out it was a deliberate choice and they told us about it. That is not proof of an unfinished game, for as much you want it to be. Many games now have day 1 patches or something similar that unlocks or adds content, it's part of how the industry works now.

And what if they existed on New Leaf and therefore are not new to the franchise? That doesn't mean they had to be added at release or be on the game at all. I mean, going by your logic, New Leaf was an unfinished game because it didn't have Celeste's observatory and the constellation creation mechanic (oh and since it never updated with that, I guess it's still an unfinished game). Can you see how your logic is kinda flawed and biased against NH? Like others have said, yes, people could have had reasons to expect all content from previous games to be day 1 on NH, but it has never been true.

And for the "true and unexpected content", does the Wedding Season event appeared on previous games? What about Gullivarrr? Pumpkin harvest? The mini-event for May Day and International Museum Day? They may have not been "groundbreaking" things, but they are new and unexpected. I could also include all the others things they have added, like hairstyles, body paint and reactions; but people mostly consider them minor additions.


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## John Wick (Dec 25, 2020)

Some people are satisfied with the way NH is, and some of us aren't.

People shouldn't try to force others around to their way of thinking by gaslighting our posts reguarding our valid complaints.

If you're satisfied with NH the way it is, that's great, but don't try to tell others they should be satisfied just because you are.

Simple as that.


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## DrewAC (Dec 25, 2020)

John Wick said:


> Some people are satisfied with the way NH is, and some of us aren't.
> 
> People shouldn't try to force others around to their way of thinking by gaslighting our posts reguarding our valid complaints.
> 
> ...


Let's all not forget this goes both ways, and that engaging in a kind discussion/debate is healthy for a forum.


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## Feraligator (Dec 25, 2020)

I enjoyed NH so much for about 2 months and then my love for NH started dwindling quickly.
I guess I'm on the divisive side but I still play anyways because I love the series as a whole

I just wish I could've relived the joy I had with NL again like I did with NH. It only lasted ~2 months on NH, but it lasted at least 2 years with NL.

(It lasted like 3 years on CF but I was like 9 y/o, it just isn't the same when you're an adult and I hate that lol, but that's life)

Part of this is probably to do with growing up, but I know for certain that the other part is because NL raised the bar way too high with how innovative it was compared to its predecessors. If NL didn't exist then I probably would've enjoyed NH way way more.

The QoL features of NH (stuff that we all hated in NL like random move in locations) make it hard to go back though for me.


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## John Wick (Dec 25, 2020)

DrewAC said:


> Let's all not forget this goes both ways, and that engaging in a kind discussion/debate is healthy for a forum.


Obviously it goes both ways, but it seems to be those with complaints that cop the the most criticism, more often than not.

I wouldn't dream of telling anyone how they should feel.
I'd like the same courtesy is all.


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## DrewAC (Dec 25, 2020)

John Wick said:


> Obviously it goes both ways, but it seems to be those with complaints that cop the raw end of the stick more often than not.
> 
> I wouldn't dream of telling anyone how they should feel.
> I'd like the same courtesy is all.


Sorry you've had bad experiences sharing your feedback. Everyone's is 100% valid. 

Whenever I post, I'm more than happy to see responses to my opinions and engage in a discussion. I try be optimistic that maybe, as unlikely as it may be, people from Nintendo could be reading discussions on various websites involving people with all sorts of opinions, using that to make the game even better than before.


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## Boidoh (Dec 25, 2020)

Kalle said:


> You can watch the full video *here*.



You know, looking through this, I feel even worse about the content in NH.


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## Yoshisaur (Dec 25, 2020)

I agree somewhat. I do really really like the ability to design my entire island as freely as I can in NH but the other aspects of the game are very watered down. I wish there was more expansive dialogue with the NPCs tbh. They all say the same stuff over and over. That's one of the few things that I am definitely annoyed about.


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## Lanstar (Dec 25, 2020)

I guess I'll copy-paste my feelings about New Leaf I posted 3 months ago in this forum - and I still feel this way right now:

__________

I haven't played New Leaf since the day I began to play New Horizons. Part of the reason is the circle pad of my 3ds broke off, and its plastic snapped in two, making it impossible to glue back on. The other part, though... I love the freedoms granted by New Horizons so much, that whenever I think of what I could potentially do in New Leaf, it feels, like a major hassle.

Like , maybe I want to plant a cedar tree/shrub in a new spot. Oh wait, I can only buy a 3 starts per day, and they each hog one spot in my inventory... 

How about new public works projects? Oh wait, I must choose a spot _very _carefully, as building it takes a day, and demolishing it takes another day.

How about a nice run around my town? Oh wait, Grass deterioration - walk slowly.

Maybe I want to refurbish a furniture item. Oh wait... Cyrus takes 30 minutes to get it done, and I have to check the internet for a preview to see if it's what I'm after.

Maybe I'll let a villager go to get a new one. Oh wait... 10 days for the move, and uncertainty of move ins means I have to place path patterns all over the place.

Maybe do some shopping to buy something new... Oh wait, I already have most of that furniture and clothing in my catalog.

The only thing I may do if I come back is talk to villagers, redecorate my home a little bit, and maybe check Tortimer Island. But otherwise, I feel like I've played the game to death, and would rather utilize the freedoms granted to me in New Horizons. -.-

_____

Sure, New Leaf has many more features - but the number of features doesn't always equal the best game play. I urge people who glamorize New Leaf to stop playing NH and play your existing NL town for a couple months (NO resetting your file!), and see for yourself. I find that the additional freedoms you get in NH are worth much more that many of the additional features of New Leaf.


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## John Wick (Dec 25, 2020)

I wish I hadn't sold my 3ds and copy of NL over a year ago.
I'd definately be playing it.


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## Baroque (Dec 25, 2020)

Yeah, I feel the same way. There are several additions that I really do appreciate: being able to decorate your entire island is a big deal, we shouldn’t look away from that... but then again, a lot of what made New Leaf charming is totally gone now. I think most of that could be saved by bringing back some of the shops and venues present in New Leaf, though: bring back The Roost, bring back Harriet and her salon (Whatever it’d do now, anyway...) bring back that fortune-telling cat. Let us make our entire town if the intent actually is for us to customize and build a whole town on an island, not just freakin’... Nook’s cranny and the tailor shop :/


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## Red Cat (Dec 26, 2020)

NH is a better game overall than NL for a variety of reasons, but it didn't have to be either/or when and could have easily been done. NH was an unfinished game at launch and the different seasons, holiday updates, and continued COVID isolation have been enough to keep players interested so far, but once the one year anniversary rolls around, Easter 2.0 isn't going to cut it anymore. Nintendo is eventually going to need to stop the drip content and make a WA style splash to keep people engaged, especially as more and more people get vaccinated and back out into the real world. I'd like to see them "complete" NH before losing most of the casual players and they will be gone long before the end of the planned 3 years of updates.


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## CrankyCupcake (Dec 26, 2020)

I enjoyed New Leaf so much. I played it for years. But I wouldn't go back to it. New Horizons is a better game for me, even though by better, I don't mean quantifiable qualities such as a bigger item count or a longer list of new NPCs. I just like it better. I think it's amazing that I no longer have to tolerate new villagers putting down their houses wherever they pleased. I don't have to worry about my flowers dying or my grass disappearing. I'm not big on terraforming but I do appreciate being given the opportunity and power to change the course of my river or flatten my island, if I felt like doing so.

New Horizons also looks fantastic. I like a good-looking game, since I can't help but look when I'm playing.


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## Monokuma73 (Dec 26, 2020)

DrewAC said:


> Sure, let's be realistic. Have you seen Pokemon Sword And Shield? Graphics were terribly disappointing, even though it was a "next gen console." New Horizons looks beautiful in comparison.
> (...)
> Those graphics are awful compared to ACNH. Sure, it's upscaled, but that's about it. The models aren't nearly as great as ACNH's nor are the textures/shadows/shading. And the reason why the Wii U version of the game did not perform as well is because it was a spin off, not a main series entry.



I never played any Pokemon game so I have no opinion. I never say graphics is awful / ugly in ACNH, but what I want to underline is a fact, a graphics improvement (somewhat) has been done and if AC for Wii U would be a proper game, instead of board one - I would guarantee its success. No more, no less.
I can find many good games with worse graphics, and those games are a pure pleasure to play them, but there's a lot of beautifully looking games, but there's no temptation to play any single minute.
And once more... I will not take excuse as "spin off" - it's their problem, their decision to make spin off instead of "normal game" and they fail.



DrewAC said:


> Physics doesn't mean interactivity. I'm referring to things like trees, clothing, objects, particles, etc. moving with wind or even simulated wind through objects such as fans. That's really impressive stuff, and it does matter, it isn't pointless to many of us, including myself. Just because you cannot directly interact with an object with an NES game (because of Nintendo's choice to bundle them w/ NSO) doesn't mean that it's not important for the object to look good. This is a game all about decorating and collecting. Objects should look great, and they do in New Horizons.


Sure, you're absolutely right. I personally enjoy "physics", but what I'm trying to say, is something I calling "wasting potential" and many of objects using physics wasting potential of this, like my given example pinball machines.
I will not take your statement "game all about decorating and collecting" - as all of AC was about this, but this doesn't stop developers for implementing interesting features, starting from first iteration of AC game on GameCube.
At this point we got situation where something has been given, but even more has been taken away. 
Two examples: 
Club LOL versus K.K. every single week waiting since 5AM with simplest stools for his audience to perform one song.
Label in ACNH, homeless "person" instead of having own part of family store.



DrewAC said:


> Crafting is always relevant to gameplay, whether you're using flimsy tools or golden tools. Collecting materials, farming ores, etc. is as relevant in the beginning as it is in the ending. And, like I was getting at in my original post, it also increases social interaction with other players a ton, and as a result, the player economy and online community hasn't thrived in any other game as well as AC:NH.


In my personal opinion, "making money" and all economy had higher difficulty level and was really unpleasant, however in ACNH we may have too much money and absolutely no way to spend them.



DrewAC said:


> I didn't feel that way at all. Certainly, having more features at launch is ideal for everyone, but I think the game shipped with enough features before patches came. I've played every single main series game during its prime, and for many reasons I've went into and more, ACNH has kept me more engaged than the others have.
> 
> The latter of your post is really just pessimism. There's no way to prove/show new updates will give us nothing and will be unnecessary. Every big update we've gotten so far has been great and improved the game greatly. There's no reason for me to believe it won't continue that way, considering their track record.
> 
> As we continue to see more entries in Animal Crossing, we're going to have to become more accustomed to seeing certain things not return in the future, whether it be furniture, NPCs, features, etc. A point does get reached where it's hard for the developers to recreate everything and then try to build a new experience on top of it. And when you have a game that's essentially a carbon copy of the predecessor, it will get boring incredibly fast (look at City Folk). That's why, to compensate for it, every Animal Crossing entry should take risks, and though there is content I would like to see again from past games, I think New Horizons does a fine job at reinventing the wheel. AC:NH sold amazingly well, so I think the future will be brighter than we could imagine for the future of this entry, and the future ones to come.



Don't get me wrong, I spend many more hours in ACNH than in any other AC games. I have 770+ hours and still playing every single day. I started in early September so I consider myself lucky I had game already updated to reasonable level of content.
I'm not trying and never tried to tell ACNH is a bad game, but I have my expectations and there are thing I like more and things I like less and some of them are not acceptable for me. 
I'm not expecting from Animal Crossing to create a copy of previous iteration, just adding "HD" in the tile, this is not a solution and do agree, it will become boring quite fast. But, I can't glorify game just because something has been added, what was in previous iteration, because it's not a real challenge, and comparing how much was taken away to what was added, I may be slightly disappointed, can I?


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## Boidoh (Dec 27, 2020)

Lanstar said:


> Sure, New Leaf has many more features - but the number of features doesn't always equal the best game play. I urge people who glamorize New Leaf to stop playing NH and play your existing NL town for a couple months (NO resetting your file!), and see for yourself. I find that the additional freedoms you get in NH are worth much more that many of the additional features of New Leaf.



I tried this a couple months ago. It only made me miss certain things that New Leaf had. Sure, in terms of designing your island, NH is a big improvement. But for people who that wasn't the primary focus, New Leaf knocks it out of the park.


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## Splinter (Dec 27, 2020)

I'm glad it was stripped back, I was thinking after new leaf there's probably nowhere left for it to go now in the format it was currently in, desert island setting was the right way to go, crafting mechanic gave it something different and removal of a lot of restrictions from the older games was also a big bonus. Once we have every final update it will feel more like the ultimate Animal crossing game. Just being able to decorate outside is huge for the series imo.


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## daringred_ (Dec 27, 2020)

i love how preferring NL in any capacity, no matter how many or which valid reasons you give, automatically means you're "glamorizing" it like okay. i don't need to go back and play NL because i literally still play both my NL towns regularly alongside NH -- the only reason i don't play them daily is because it's been 7 years and i don't usually have the time on top of other stuff. when i do, however, i still ironically play just one of them for _longer _than i do NH despite having the exact same routine in both titles. 

never once have i seen someone who prefers NL tell someone who prefers NH that they're "glamorizing" it, or don't understand, or are objectively wrong, and yet that's literally almost all i see NH lovers say to those who prefer NL.


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## Boidoh (Dec 27, 2020)

Splinter said:


> I'm glad it was stripped back, I was thinking after new leaf there's probably nowhere left for it to go now in the format it was currently in, desert island setting was the right way to go



I don't get it. NH isn't that a drastic departure from NL. Making it be a deserted island only played a role in like the first few weeks. After that, especially after you've decorated everything, it's far from a deserted island, and you're right back to continuing where New Leaf left off. That's not a bad thing, but you're framing it as though putting it on a "desert island setting" was a huge departure for the series.

I swear, it's only in this fandom that stripping content is considered 'keeping things fresh'.



daringred_ said:


> i love how preferring NL in any capacity, no matter how many or which valid reasons you give, automatically means you're "glamorizing" it like okay. i don't need to go back and play NL because i literally still play both my NL towns regularly alongside NH -- the only reason i don't play them daily is because it's been 7 years and i don't usually have the time on top of other stuff. when i do, however, i still ironically play just one of them for _longer _than i do NH despite having the exact same routine in both titles.
> 
> never once have i seen someone who prefers NL tell someone who prefers NH that they're "glamorizing" it, or don't understand, or are objectively wrong, and yet that's literally almost all i see NH lovers say to those who prefer NL.



Exactly.

Honestly, for me, I saw the flaws in New Leaf compared to previous titles (even though at the time I had never played any of them extensively). Despite all the additions, I wasn't a fan of the hourly music, rolling log view (I love that NH allows me to have a bit of an overhead camera), and other stuff I can't recall at the moment. Despite all of that, I found myself enjoying New Leaf even though some of those flaws bothered me quite a bit. 

I don't think I'm glamorizing New Leaf.

At the same thing.. NH isn't a "departure" from New Leaf.  I understand why some of you think that way, and I did too when the game first came out. I remember drawing some diagrams and saying that it's either an evolution of City Folk or the original GCN game due to the way it disregarded most developments of New Leaf. However, as the updates came out, it became clear that they were just gonna add in things like bushes and diving as DLC. It wasn't a "new direction". Instead, it made the game feel incomplete.


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## daringred_ (Dec 27, 2020)

Boidoh said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Honestly, for me, I saw the flaws in New Leaf compared to previous titles (even though at the time I had never played any of them extensively). Despite all the additions, I wasn't a fan of the hourly music, rolling log view (I love that NH allows me to have a bit of an overhead camera), and other stuff I can't recall at the moment. Despite all of that, I found myself enjoying New Leaf even though some of those flaws bothered me quite a bit.
> 
> ...



i personally prefer NL's music, and don't mind the view, but i do have other issues with the game (villagers putting their houses wherever, meh dialogue, grass deterioration, lack of skin tones, etc.) that were all improved in NH. that, however, doesn't automatically make NH better and i would gladly take those issues in stride and replay NL purely because it has more content and keeps me occupied/playing for a lot longer. what flaws NL does have, it makes up for in character and content. NH either outright or removed a lot of those features and, with them, the character and charm, which is why i struggle to care or feel invested. it's got literally nothing to do with "glamorizing" NL, and i don't think the people using that term even completely understand what it means.


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## marea (Dec 27, 2020)

I agree with some of your points and disgree with some others. I personally feel like it is too early to judge new horizons compared to older games because we still dont have the whole game yet. Maybe they will bring some of new leaf's features back, or at least that is what i am wishing. It also has enough new features to make it feel fresh. I enjoy some of them like crafting, it really felt like a big edition that added way more to my personal way of playing than fortune cookies or gyroids, which were two features i had no interest in.

However, the thing that i think should have been there since day one is more and better villager interactions. The social aspect of new horizons is very disappointing for me. They could have done so much more with it but instead it is lacking. Still, i think this entery has potential. It all depends on where they decide to take it, though.


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## grandpa (Dec 27, 2020)

marea said:


> I agree with some of your points and disgree with some others. I personally feel like it is too early to judge new horizons compared to older games because we still dont have the whole game yet. Maybe they will bring some of new leaf's features back, or at least that is what i am wishing. It also has enough new features to make it feel fresh. I enjoy some of them like crafting, it really felt like a big edition that added way more to my personal way of playing than fortune cookies or gyroids, which were two features i had no interest in.
> 
> However, the thing that i think should have been there since day one is more and better villager interactions. The social aspect of new horizons is very disappointing for me. They could have done so much more with it but instead it is lacking. Still, i think this entery has potential. It all depends on where they decide to take it, though.



i agree with we need better villager interactions. The social aspect. im soo damn tired of the same 2-3 opening lines they do every day..... (hear your dig fossil or bury money) damn i would be happy if the villager would interact more with each other or play more,,, damn we in 2020-21 im sure they could put small mini game that we able to play with them...  

what i would like to see or get back. is the small city life form new leaf. and more of the old personalities. like grumpy villagers. whats that would be gold as well will let villager grow their personalities over time. and lets us see more of them. hell i like Katts, when she come up with some of hers rares one liner of her home or talk about herself. same with Cole


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## -Lumi- (Dec 27, 2020)

Honestly? Yeah. It does. 

I know that New Horizon's doesn't need to be nor was it meant to be New Leaf 2. It's a new game in the franchise so it'll have differences, like how Wild World & New Leaf aren't the same game _and that's okay_. I'm not looking for a second New Leaf, what I'm looking for is an improved Animal Crossing game and while in some ways New Horizons is an improvement, as a whole I can't help but feel disappointed by it. I've posted in tons of threads about my disappointment in New Horizons to the point where I probably sound like a broken record but I paid nearly $100 for the game (Canadian prices, woohoo), _I should own the whole damn thing_. 

A lot of New Horizons flaws are often defended with, "it'll come in an update, that could be changed in an update, it's written in the meta-data (or whatever that's called) so it'll come in the future, etc. etc" and yeah, it very well might, _but that's ridiculous_. The game should've been released with NPC's, shop updates/more shops, inclusive/more diverse hairstyles, and holidays amongst other things, already included. It's frustrating that so much of the game is hidden behind updates when it's not a free to play game. I paid money for a full game, but I didn't receive a full game at launch, so I'm going to be hypercritical of what I paid for.

Other flaws are frustrating and I will compare it directly to New Leaf. Why am I not able to get every fruit type unless I pay for online? Why am I not able to look at patterns people design unless I pay for online? Why am I not able to obtain every colour of the _already limited furniture available_ unless I pay for online? That's ridiculous that those features aren't available to players who choose to or are only able to play solo. Those are core features of the Animal Crossing experience and it's unfair they're locked behind a paywall.

In different ways the game feels like a step back because it feels empty. Animal Crossing is such a charming game and I really feel like New Horizons lost some of that charm. The game is gorgeous, sure, and it has some really cute little details! I love that we can see snow from our windows, and that the villagers can sing, and sit, and carry items around, they did a really great job with the way the game looks. No doubt. But it's empty. My island has _two _stores. Two shops that don't upgrade, or at least they haven't yet, and the game has been out for nearly a year! By the time I put a year into New Leaf I think I had most of mainstreet unlocked, if not all of it, and maybe even had the full store upgrades too. Hiding those things behind updates under the guise of "making the game last longer" is silly. I played New Leaf for years without needing the game to hide holidays and features behind yearly updates. 

I dunno. I do love New Horizons, it definitely has some good aspects. I love being able to put furniture outside - I think that adds a lot to the game and I have a lot of fun decorating my island with more than just the handful of PWP's we had in New Leaf. I love that we get to move houses and the campsite around and I love having fences, those are really cute. I love being able to change my eyes, nose, mouth, hair, gender, and skin tone by just looking into a mirror. I love the new villagers, Sherb is so cute, even if I'm not a huge fan of how they altered the lazy personality, but still. I love how the game has pathways now! Ones that are recognized on my map, that's a lot of fun. I love how much bigger the island is, that we get to add in more than three bridges (I think that was the New Leaf limit?) and we get to add inclines, and I do like having the option to terraform even if I find it a little overwhelming and not the easiest thing to do. Also rocks! I love that we can break rocks in New Horizons. 

New Horizons does have aspects that I love, it can just feel overshadowed by the parts that are frustrating and by the parts that feel unfair, especially when I look at my time with New Leaf. I think with New Leaf the main things that frustrated me were: the character customization in New Leaf was abysmal and I'm really bummed that wasn't fixed with the Welcome Amiibo update, definitely a huge let down. Villagers randomly moving out if you didn't play the game every single day and then having villagers randomly choose a spot to live. The house plotting was slightly improved with the Welcome Amiibo update but it's still finicky. And that's really it. I'm sure there are little things that also bother me but those three are my main issues that still stick out when I think back to the game. I do visit my New Leaf town from time to time and it's still charming and I love it a lot.


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## Sheydra (Dec 27, 2020)

Funny enough I feel nh is much more relaxing and feels less like work then nl did.


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## Monokuma73 (Dec 28, 2020)

-Lumi- said:


> Honestly? Yeah. It does.
> 
> I know that New Horizon's doesn't need to be nor was it meant to be New Leaf 2. It's a new game in the franchise so it'll have differences, like how Wild World & New Leaf aren't the same game _and that's okay_. I'm not looking for a second New Leaf, what I'm looking for is an improved Animal Crossing game and while in some ways New Horizons is an improvement, as a whole I can't help but feel disappointed by it. I've posted in tons of threads about my disappointment in New Horizons to the point where I probably sound like a broken record but I paid nearly $100 for the game (Canadian prices, woohoo), _I should own the whole damn thing_.



I never played and never had NL before updates, I was lucky enough have an access to final version of NL for reasonable price. I can say more, I bought almost all (suitable) AC games in 2020 (excluding City Folk for Wii, as I already had this one, but never played) and all of those games been completed. This gave me some sort of security and reason to believe / trust in new version (NH) when released as a full game... will be literally full one... but it wasn't.
Once more, I was lucky enough to buy NH (two Switches, two copies of NH) late August / first week of September 2020 so I had no feeling disappointment of lacking features added in summer update. 
Most disappointing fact is related to three last updates (Halloween, Turkey Day, Toy Day), not only because of the content, but because those updates should be a part of full release and don't pretend a Big Nintendo giving a gift for FREE, because it's not true.



-Lumi- said:


> A lot of New Horizons flaws are often defended with, "it'll come in an update, that could be changed in an update, it's written in the meta-data (or whatever that's called) so it'll come in the future, etc. etc" and yeah, it very well might, _but that's ridiculous_. The game should've been released with NPC's, shop updates/more shops, inclusive/more diverse hairstyles, and holidays amongst other things, already included. It's frustrating that so much of the game is hidden behind updates when it's not a free to play game. I paid money for a full game, but I didn't receive a full game at launch, so I'm going to be hypercritical of what I paid for.



I totally agree with you. If the game is free / free to play, alpha, beta etc. we may expect to pay something extra. Having a full release of software giving or at least should give sense of buying finished product, or if it's not finished, a proper information should be given for a customers.
I heard and read more than enough about high hopes, about "bright futures", about data-mining, about big free update, full of content just round the corner... but as I wrote so many times, I don't believe it would ever happened. The fact something has been data-mined in the code, doesn't prove anything.
One more thing - island has fixed size and there's not really place for extra buildings... sure, if we want we could destroy as much as we pleased and place more and more buildings... but is this a way?



-Lumi- said:


> Other flaws are frustrating and I will compare it directly to New Leaf. Why am I not able to get every fruit type unless I pay for online? Why am I not able to look at patterns people design unless I pay for online? Why am I not able to obtain every colour of the _already limited furniture available_ unless I pay for online? That's ridiculous that those features aren't available to players who choose to or are only able to play solo. Those are core features of the Animal Crossing experience and it's unfair they're locked behind a paywall.



There is more. I do agree with you, when we talking about literally forced to play online and obviously buying online membership. When I bough Switch + NH for my and my GF I was intended to play only with her, using local play. However in the time when we bought, local play was terrible mess and it was unplayable. Probably it was silently fixed (but I'm not 100% sure). I bought two online membership, for one year each, but I has been done against my will. If I would have this knowledge before purchase I may be acting differently.
But, whatever happens in the future, my "New Year Resolution" is not extend online membership after September 2021 when my membership will expire. Enough is enough.
It looks like game couldn't be completed without online membership, but customers are not clearly informed about this.



-Lumi- said:


> In different ways the game feels like a step back because it feels empty. Animal Crossing is such a charming game and I really feel like New Horizons lost some of that charm. The game is gorgeous, sure, and it has some really cute little details! I love that we can see snow from our windows, and that the villagers can sing, and sit, and carry items around, they did a really great job with the way the game looks. No doubt. But it's empty. My island has _two _stores. Two shops that don't upgrade, or at least they haven't yet, and the game has been out for nearly a year! By the time I put a year into New Leaf I think I had most of mainstreet unlocked, if not all of it, and maybe even had the full store upgrades too. Hiding those things behind updates under the guise of "making the game last longer" is silly. I played New Leaf for years without needing the game to hide holidays and features behind yearly updates.



In some aspect, New Horizons is not New Leaf 2, but New Leaf 0.5 and there's no real justification for this. Sometimes I have a sense of different teams with different vision working on same game. NH is visually improved, is charming, sweet, adorable etc. But some aspect of NH has been taken away, stripped, reduced - can we call this improvement, because I can't.
Same, I do not agree with statement "making the game last longer", especially after last three updates. Those updates haven't changed a bit in quality of life, haven't improved a game as a whole.



-Lumi- said:


> I dunno. I do love New Horizons, it definitely has some good aspects. I love being able to put furniture outside - I think that adds a lot to the game and I have a lot of fun decorating my island with more than just the handful of PWP's we had in New Leaf. I love that we get to move houses and the campsite around and I love having fences, those are really cute. I love being able to change my eyes, nose, mouth, hair, gender, and skin tone by just looking into a mirror. I love the new villagers, Sherb is so cute, even if I'm not a huge fan of how they altered the lazy personality, but still. I love how the game has pathways now! Ones that are recognized on my map, that's a lot of fun. I love how much bigger the island is, that we get to add in more than three bridges (I think that was the New Leaf limit?) and we get to add inclines, and I do like having the option to terraform even if I find it a little overwhelming and not the easiest thing to do. Also rocks! I love that we can break rocks in New Horizons.



I don't agree only with one thing... size of the island. Is not big enough. If we would like to play with flowers, we need a lot of space, orchard... a big one requires more. If we would like to have a park with shrubs, fences, fountains - still require more and more... and space is limited and we loosing a lot of space behind all buildings.



-Lumi- said:


> New Horizons does have aspects that I love, it can just feel overshadowed by the parts that are frustrating and by the parts that feel unfair, especially when I look at my time with New Leaf. I think with New Leaf the main things that frustrated me were: the character customization in New Leaf was abysmal and I'm really bummed that wasn't fixed with the Welcome Amiibo update, definitely a huge let down. Villagers randomly moving out if you didn't play the game every single day and then having villagers randomly choose a spot to live. The house plotting was slightly improved with the Welcome Amiibo update but it's still finicky. And that's really it. I'm sure there are little things that also bother me but those three are my main issues that still stick out when I think back to the game. I do visit my New Leaf town from time to time and it's still charming and I love it a lot.



New Horizons was a really big step forward, but in some aspects was a couple steps back. If I can't find any explanations and understand why such a thing has happened, always the answer is: "money". Despite the fact Nintendo earned a lot of money selling NH, releasing ultimate version of AC would ruin possibility to release another and another one, to make even more money.


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## Angelbearpuppy (Dec 28, 2020)

I will state I never played NL; in fact, the last animal crossing game I played was on the Game Cube. The others that released just for whatever reason never crossed my plate. But I can't help f this reminds me of Sims 4. It had a lot of the same criticism going on, but to be fair, they stripped it back to the bare basics and made and repurchased it piece by piece. However, there were some free updates.

What I have learned is that you need to take each game at face value. It is unfair to compare games in the same family when each game has a different focus. It would be like comparing two people's islands or playstyles and judging which one is better or the correct way to do things. When you stop focusing on the notes and focus on the aspects you like, it makes playing it more enjoyable. And ultimately, that is what video games' goals are.

On the flip side, be lucky they are not charging you for the updates or treating it like DLC.


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## wolfie1 (Dec 28, 2020)

It's kind of difficult to state whether New Horizons is or will be the best/worst installment in the franchise because we still don't have the whole game. That's kind of the problem with video games nowadays: they sell a €60 game which is almost always bare-bones when it's released and then they keep adding updates to keep people hooked. The problem is you never know which way it will go.

In the case of New Horizons, so far regular updates have only brought back stuff that was present in previous games. If it's any consolation, at least they're free, but I don't recall having seen a genuinely original mechanic or feature (other than probably new furniture or DIYs from some sets, such as Franklin's or the ornament DIYs). To be honest, when I started playing I thought it would be a blast, but after nine months it's kind of worn out. They could have had everything from the beginning if they weren't planning on actually adding new stuff. Did they do this to prevent time-travelers from spoiling the fun for others or from burning out/getting bored too soon? Who knows, but the fact remains that the game is missing a lot of stuff after all this time.

Some days ago I watched a video which detailed everything that was missing from previous installments and boy was it long. I didn't even remember most of it because they were little things, but those little things kept the game alive. For example, hide-and-seek, burying time capsules, setting appointments with your villagers to have them come over or go visit them, fetching a villager for another one who's at home only to have them tell the second villager they found their sock... but also events, especially from Wild World: La-Di-Day, Yay Day, the Flea Market... Boy do I miss those little things that entertained me for hours on end when I was a little kid. I'm not even going to mention all the NPC they've removed because somebody else did it before, but it's pretty sad to see that most of them probably won't be brought back or will be brought back after a long time, when it probably won't make sense anymore to add them. We still have only ONE Nook's Cranny upgrade, the dialogs are kind of repetitive, and so on and so forth.

However, I will agree that New Horizons introduced some mechanics from the beginning which account for the 710 hours I've put into this game: terraforming is a groundbreaking idea which lets you create and modify your island however you want, although I ended up getting burned out too soon as it was too overwhelming at times (possibly my own fault for wanting to modify my island in one sitting); I still craft DIY furniture daily, if only to complete the achievement and sell what I craft immediately to Timmy and Tommy.

All in all, I think New Horizons is a pretty divisive game but we won't be able to know for sure whether the wait will have been worth it or not until the last update. Until then we can only speculate and discuss if this or that is good/bad/should not be in the game, and so on.


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## moonlights (Dec 28, 2020)

I 100% agree New Leaf had small features that made the game feel like 'Animal Crossing', such as our favourite NPCs, gyroids and the music, but I wouldn't go as far as calling it a discount New Leaf, however I do genuinely think NL has a charm NH didn't capture.
I'm also lost on the replies saying there's much more to do in NL... there really isn't. i guess the welcome amiibo update added something big to NL but unless you had a new nintendo 3ds, or were willing to pay £40-50 for an NFC reader and then the cards on top of that, you only enjoyed RVs from about 5 of the same NPCs.


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## Sara? (Dec 28, 2020)

wolfie1 said:


> It's kind of difficult to state whether New Horizons is or will be the best/worst installment in the franchise because we still don't have the whole game. That's kind of the problem with video games nowadays: they sell a €60 game which is almost always bare-bones when it's released and then they keep adding updates to keep people hooked. The problem is you never know which way it will go.
> 
> In the case of New Horizons, so far regular updates have only brought back stuff that was present in previous games. If it's any consolation, at least they're free, but I don't recall having seen a genuinely original mechanic or feature (other than probably new furniture or DIYs from some sets, such as Franklin's or the ornament DIYs). To be honest, when I started playing I thought it would be a blast, but after nine months it's kind of worn out. They could have had everything from the beginning if they weren't planning on actually adding new stuff. Did they do this to prevent time-travelers from spoiling the fun for others or from burning out/getting bored too soon? Who knows, but the fact remains that the game is missing a lot of stuff after all this time.
> 
> ...


 
While I strongly agree and support your opinion, which is very well written, I only have a little tinny something to add to it, I have only played NL so my experience with the franchise is not that vast, however i think harvesting is a new feature for and AC game  so technically speaking they did add a new gaming dynamic or feature so to say with an update. Hopefully the future of ACNH will be bright


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## wolfie1 (Dec 28, 2020)

Sara? said:


> While I strongly agree and support your opinion, which is very well written, I only have a little tinny something to add to it, I have only played NL so my experience with the franchise is not that vast, however i think harvesting is a new feature for and AC game  so technically speaking they did add a new gaming dynamic or feature so to say with an update. Hopefully the future of ACNH will be bright



Yeah, most of what I mentioned was actually present in New Leaf (burying a time capsule, fetching other villagers, setting apointments to have villagers come over, etc), but I meant new features introduced with regular updates. I think you mean harvesting tree branches and so on to craft DIYs, right? That's been in the game from the beginning, which is why I said I don't remember updates introducing actual new features or mechanics.

I wish these updates weren't so spaced out in time and didn't only bring back one or two NPCs that are only useful for a day and then you go back to your daily chores. I didn't use to feel like I'm a robot doing the same thing over and over again until at least more than a year after I started playing New Leaf. I'm also hoping the rest of updated they've planned will bring back most of what isn't in the game right now and more!


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## JKDOS (Dec 28, 2020)

Monokuma73 said:


> In my personal opinion, "making money" and all economy had higher difficulty level and was really unpleasant, however in ACNH we may have too much money and absolutely no way to spend them.



You may have that backwards. Making money in New Leaf was super easy (Beatle Farming made around 450,000 bells every 30 minutes), and there was no way to spend it outside of PWPs.
In New Horizons, making bells is a lot slower, and you have to pay Tom Nook 50,000 bells every time you want to move a building or 100,000 bells just to move a building a few spaces over. There are 10 villagers. It will take 500,000 bells to move each of their homes once.


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## Sara? (Dec 28, 2020)

wolfie1 said:


> Yeah, most of what I mentioned was actually present in New Leaf (burying a time capsule, fetching other villagers, setting apointments to have villagers come over, etc), but I meant new features introduced with regular updates. I think you mean harvesting tree branches and so on to craft DIYs, right? That's been in the game from the beginning, which is why I said I don't remember updates introducing actual new features or mechanics.
> 
> I wish these updates weren't so spaced out in time and didn't only bring back one or two NPCs that are only useful for a day and then you go back to your daily chores. I didn't use to feel like I'm a robot doing the same thing over and over again until at least more than a year after I started playing New Leaf. I'm also hoping the rest of updated they've planned will bring back most of what isn't in the game right now and more!




No, no i meant harvesting pumpkin which we got through the halloween update ( harvesting vegetables is new to the franchise, or is it not ? ) which  was also one of my favorite updates thus far i would say. 

I feel you there! I also wish that we got more frequent updates even though if that meant we would have less content so to say in each update since they would be distributed in many small updates through the year, but i guess this is my personal taste there are probably pp out there who like updates to be more spaced but have a big load of content. I will agree with you that the game needs really needs the missing content plus, which is personally what im looking for, real new content or old content but with a different and improved twist to refreshen things and adapt to the new technologies and fans needs.


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## wolfie1 (Dec 28, 2020)

Sara? said:


> No, no i meant harvesting pumpkin which we got through the halloween update ( harvesting vegetables is new to the franchise, or is it not ? ) which  was also one of my favorite updates thus far i would say.
> 
> I feel you there! I also wish that we got more frequent updates even though if that meant we would have less content so to say in each update since they would be distributed in many small updates through the year, but i guess this is my personal taste there are probably pp out there who like updates to be more spaced but have a big load of content. I will agree with you that the game needs really needs the missing content plus, which is personally what im looking for, real new content or old content but with a different and improved twist to refreshen things and adapt to the new technologies and fans needs.



Yes, I realized my mistake as soon as I clicked "post reply" lol. I left it there for confirmation, though. Although I'm not so sure it could be treated as "new", as they're basically treated like flowers... Anyway, it's a nice addition nonetheless, and I hope we can have other vegetables and fruits (looking at you, bananas, durians, persimmons, lemons) in future updates!


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## Monokuma73 (Dec 28, 2020)

JKDOS said:


> You may have that backwards. Making money in New Leaf was super easy (Beatle Farming made around 450,000 bells every 30 minutes), and there was no way to spend it outside of PWPs.
> In New Horizons, making bells is a lot slower, and you have to pay Tom Nook 50,000 bells every time you want to move a building or 100,000 bells just to move a building a few spaces over. There are 10 villagers. It will take 500,000 bells to move each of their homes once.



I do believe and personally I never reached the level you've mentioned.


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## TheDuke55 (Dec 28, 2020)

As things are right now, the divisiveness of this game is very telling. You can love/defend or hate/bash the game as much as you want, but I never saw such a divide in any of the AC mainline games. I'm not finger pointing, because there is a fine line of criticizing the game for its flaws and pointing out its successes. Which a lot of us have done.

I also always see the go back to NewLeaf (older title) thrown around quite a lot. There are a few that absolutely detest NH, I won't deny it, but the majority just wish NH hadn't stripped away so much of its old content. I also don't think it is not fair and rather scummy of Nintendo to force people to pay for online or be locked away from its core content. And if you want another island you need to buy an entire system. When I was young, my family couldn't afford internet. There are so many families that still can't. Because you need internet to download patches and to get the holidays. If they don't have internet the game will be like WW 2.0 because there are no holidays.



Spoiler



This was an issue with NL as well, but if they want us to pay for online they should be giving us some kind of dedicated server. Or at the very least, not have everyone lose connection if someone drops accidentally or on purpose. I also see comments about how we should be glad the drip-feed isn't paid content. We already paid for the game, regular internet to get updates, online NSO for the actual game, and then paid content? Nintendo and AC would be getting so much heat. A good portion of the playerbase would abandon ship.



As things are now, we are almost a year in. I never played an Animal Crossing game for a straight year. I usually come back after a break. But before those breaks, I would often unlock stuff that was already in the game. In NL's case it was the mainstreet and upgraded shops. In this game, I'm almost a year in and just waiting to see what might be added. 

I like the game, but as time goes by I feel the drip-feed is more because they were very behind and felt they needed to push the game out sooner than it was ready. I would had personally waited until March 2021 or even longer if it meant it would give them more time to flesh the game out.

On the topic of games being pushed out sooner than they were ready, I'm thinking of CyberPunk2077. NH is in no way the dumpster fire that this game is turning out to be because of how flawed it was during launch. The game will be getting patches to fix the glitched game throughout next year. Bethesda is infamous for this as well. Patches come out to fix stuff that previously made progression impossible. I'm just not a fan of this new 'game comes out and then patches will follow later to fix and or add content we didn't have time to put in the game before launch'


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## AssassinVicz (Dec 28, 2020)

Again adding onto my post because i've recently played New Leaf again. (On my Yoshi plated New 3DS, The beauty...)

I feel like for the time the game came out (and I bought it after the welcome amiibo update), it was a solid animal crossing game which added more to the formula. It wasn't as empty as city folk could be, it had portibility like wild world had and brought some features from the game cube version over. It offered the ultimate experience from the time period. I remember fondly throwing my 3DS in my bag and walking around with it, to grind up some nintendo coins for my fortune cookie needs. (I then found out you could just shake it so, saved walking...)

When I reloaded up my save file, I honestly forgot the neighbours I have. Nate, Cube and i'm currently fostering pietro for a Friend. I also forgot what I did in my town and the fact that I ended up flooding most areas with flowers. I played alot of hide and seek with my neighbours, especially hunting for a flamingo neighbours who blends into trees... plus playing it on the island was a nice bonus too. 

However after playing the game for around an hour, probably 2. I did start to see some obvious flaws and some features that I think could also benefit New Horizons aswell.

Firstly the main street area was kinda... a pain. I barely ever went up in that area, unless I was donating things to the museum or browsing the clothing, shoes or furniture shops. But then again that was rare. It honestly felt like a waste to have Timmy and Tommy in the game to sell things to, when you have re-tail which offered a better deal. Which i'm sure was intentional feature but it felt like a waste to have them both. 
The happy home designer area felt worthless unless you had friends/people you were close to that your 3DS could connect to. I think I only ever had 3 plots filled... so it just felt like a waste? 

The public work project grind was one of the worst features that New leaf had. Certain villagers could suggest these projects and I had a miserable time trying to get them. I know you could easily compare this to the DIY feature in new horizons, but the public works project only had one way of obtaining these. Which made me spent alot of my time throwing my character in a diving suit, letting her get stung for 5 minutes and hoping the character would ping and give me the works I wanted.

New Horizons does add alot of improvements to the issues i've had before, even minor ones which I havent listed. Being able to sculpt your own island, place things where you wanted or having another use for fruit and trees. 
But I do agree to an extent that some content is missing, especially fan favourites like brewster. I usually never used the coffee feature much but in wild world where you had to come at a certain time to hear kk sing and then could grab a coffee aswell. It was a wholesome feeling and one that I wished New Leaf kept, even if the shop was a nice addition. 
I also think that since the focal point on New Horizon is designing your island, there should have been more outdoor furnishing added. Using some examples like the public works' flower beds and park related items. Alot of items can go towards a woods/city theme, but for anything else you'd have to be really creative with it.

However when comparing both games together, I honestly find that New Horizon is the better game. Even if its missing some content, it implements new features which are incredbily fun to use and with a new setting being an island, allows for a unique expereince. Even when going back to New Leaf, the updates that New Horzions did to the mechanics, made things alot more easier. Plus with the switch being portable and being shared on a tv screen, it uses both 'software' that main line animal crossing games uses. (If that made sense).

I think both games are fine and I feel like if New Leaf is your favoured game then that's fine. Not everyone is going to like the same things or find the newest game in the series better then the last. But just personally, I find New Horizons to have a better experience (Plus with new updates coming out which people can like or dislike, it keeps me interested in coming back. Especially as someone who plays daily for about 30 minutes to an hour.)


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## Michelangelo (Dec 28, 2020)

It's fair to critique a game one has paid for, but I've seen SOME people completely dump on this game and articulate their opinions in very nasty ways. These haters say the game looks ugly, the music is so terrible, etc. That's disrespectful to the designers, developers, artists, etc. who put time into this game. We all know NH isn't perfect, what with the breakable tools and inconsistent QoL features, of course, but it isn't horrific either.

And let's address the whole premise of the deserted island. I like and appreciate the slow build up in the tutorial. The music fits the tone well, and it changes as you progress towards the end of the tutorial. You feel like you are actually making progress. I think the update model reflects this well, too. As the island builds up, more features are revealed through updates, which I feel seems natural.

Let's also not forget that not all the features in NL were available from the start. Sure they were in the base game, but it's not like they all could be accessed. For example, you had to wait for T.I.Y to be built before you could even plant bushes, and to reach that stage in the game without TTing could take months. And it would take many more just to plant lots of bushes. There are people who complain that bushes should have been in the base game for NH, and yet we waited less time to get them, AND we could buy them in bulk immediately.

This is not a discounted New Leaf. New Horizons isn't New Leaf 2 with improved graphics. If that happened, people would complain that it's a port or too similar to NL, just like WW to CF. Both NL and NH have their own unique problems, but they are wonderful in their own unique ways.


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## skarmoury (Dec 28, 2020)

I just wanna say that there really isn't any right or wrong opinion, because we all have different tastes ahah. But I'm like waaaay at the opposite spectrum of OP.
I played ACNL and poured hours into it mainly because I wanted to pretty my town. Resetting for 2+ hours just for a villager to plop at the right area, trapping my villagers in pit-lined squares just to have them suggest me PWP, being unable to run around my town for fear of dying grass............ yeah no I'm not going through that again. I never finished a town, I kept on resetting and resetting because I was so unhappy with my town layout or villager houses. Grinding to unlock everything burned me out so much.
I love ACNH for how easy it is to unlock things and to move things around. Yes, I miss the PWPs of ACNL, but I'd take putting stuff outside my house any day for it. I LOVE how you can move the villager houses so you don't have to worry at all where to place their houses. I love how there are more custom slots, and how you can get dreamies by visiting islands and not have to worry about random move-ins.
As someone who plays Animal Crossing mainly to design my town/island, I feel ACNH made a HUGE turn for the quality of life. I have not reset since launch, while in ACNL I probably would've reset 3 times by now. I am enjoying terraforming and shaping my island the way I want it to be; this has been a huge freedom ACNL was never able to give me. Overall I'm very much happy with the game and don't feel like it's some sort of "discounted" ACNL at all.
I'm not saying ACNH is perfect, I still prefer some aspects of ACNL like the hourly music, but I feel your preference of ACNL vs ACNH is just based on what you like doing in Animal Crossing. Like a more natural feeling? Play the old games. Want to heavily decorate your town? Play the new game. They each have their own charm and it's really not anyone's business but yours to play as you feel. Just don't expect one game to have it all, I suppose.

edit: I've also been reading some comments and just wanna say that yall shouldn't downplay the terraforming aspect of the game. So many players have spent  hundreds to thousands of hours into the game because of terraforming, so I don't think it's that small of a deal at all? Just because you don't value that aspect of the game doesn't mean no one does. Terraforming may be a chore to some who don't like it but for plenty of people like me, it's super enjoyable. I don't get why the terraforming aspect and the way you can decorate outside is being downplayed like it's nothing.

I can't argue ACNH is missing some old furniture from ACNL, but where is the love for the new furniture?? We have FENCES. We can have TENTS outside. We have PANELS that let you decorate and imagine so many more buildings and walls you couldn't do in previous games. We can have STUFF OUTSIDE. How is this not something to be excited about? The sky is the limit to decorating your outside world at this point. We aren't restricted to the 30 PWPs of ACNL. I think this aspect of ACNH should be celebrated just as much, despite lacking furniture series.


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## RollingAntony (Dec 28, 2020)

For the ones saying they haven't added any "new content", I'll repost: Does the Wedding Season event appeared on previous games? What about Gullivarrr? Pumpkin harvest? The mini-event for May Day and International Museum Day? They may have not been "groundbreaking" things, but they are new and unexpected. I could also include all the others things they have added, like hairstyles, body paint and reactions; but people mostly consider them minor additions. I mean, if you can say that pumpkin harvest is just "treated like flowers" and it's therefore not a "new" feature, I'm pretty sure we could also say that about a lot of the "new" features in all games. :/


Regarding NSO involvement, it's unfortunately on Nintendo's side, not on AC- all games on Switch have this new suscription service so it's unfair to use it as a comparison point with previous entries. Even then, you don't _need_ NSO to "fully" access the game or whatever people are saying; it's just _easier_. To further examine, there are only 2 things that you won't ever get on your own: 3/4 fruits (and I think there were reports they were a probable reward from villagers, but so low it's not worth) and the other colors of the NM items. Everything else is achievable through the game itself: Wisp, Redd, tree drops. There's also the fact local play is an option and you can get a free trial of NSO (you can get almost anything on that 7-day span and not spend a single cent on a subscription). Ultimately I agree that a paid subscription is never good, but it's an industry reality that Nintendo didn't use until now and I'm glad the developers mostly found a way around it so you don't have to pay anything. I guess they shouldn't have bothered, since people go around saying the opposite.


People are willing to compare a game and its 4 year later update against a game and its 9 month later updates. Sure, we also can't go around expecting that future updates will magicallly fix all the complains about the game because it won't happen. I think many of the highly requested QoL features are the kind of thing that the development won't agree with and therefore, won't come even if people spam each twitter post of the official account. And there's also the fact that nothing the team adds will fully satisfy people, especially the ones already biased against the game; I'm totally expecting people to say Brewster/café was "handled better" on previous games when/if arrives on NH. I'm also anticipating a paid DLC, which will make many people go crazy lol (and will give crazy money to Nintendo!)


I shouldn't end every post with a disclaimer, but yes, NH is not perfect, I don't think preferring NL makes you a blind hater or w/e, you're allowed to voice your opinion and all that.


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## Monokuma73 (Dec 28, 2020)

Michelangelo said:


> It's fair to critique a game one has paid for, but I've seen SOME people completely dump on this game and articulate their opinions in very nasty ways. These haters say the game looks ugly, the music is so terrible, etc. That's disrespectful to the designers, developers, artists, etc. who put time into this game. We all know NH isn't perfect, what with the breakable tools and inconsistent QoL features, of course, but it isn't horrific either.



It's a big, thick line between criticism and hate. If we comparing games within AC franchise we must admit this is a game with best graphics, but if someone would like to compare with completely different game, may say bad things about visuals - but, visual is only one aspect of the game, and this particular one was given for potential players before anyone make decision to buy it or not.
Music - I haven't read anything  with "real hate" regarding the music / sounds, but probably I never been interested about topics like this. Sure, some music will be not acceptable for some, other will be amazing, perfect, good etc.
However, visuals and audio - those elements are just a part of the game, and full justification cannot be given just based on those.



Michelangelo said:


> Let's also not forget that not all the features in NL were available from the start. Sure they were in the base game, but it's not like they all could be accessed. For example, you had to wait for T.I.Y to be built before you could even plant bushes, and to reach that stage in the game without TTing could take months. And it would take many more just to plant lots of bushes. There are people who complain that bushes should have been in the base game for NH, and yet we waited less time to get them, AND we could buy them in bulk immediately.



I mentioned once, I was lucky enough to lay my hands on finished and final NL. Buying NH I've done something I'm doing on regular basics, I bought game not to far from premiere and this may cause my expectations are similar to finished games.



Michelangelo said:


> This is not a discounted New Leaf. New Horizons isn't New Leaf 2 with improved graphics. If that happened, people would complain that it's a port or too similar to NL, just like WW to CF. Both NL and NH have their own unique problems, but they are wonderful in their own unique ways.



Personally, I wouldn't say "no" for New Leaf with improved graphics. I would accept it for reasonable price.
I would prefer call, in some circumstances "Discounted New Leaf" and in some aspects I can call NL "Discounted New Horizons".
Maybe I don't have as much experience as "old" players, but in last months I had time and explored a bit all AC games and have my opinion.



RollingAntony said:


> (...) What about Gullivarrr? (...)



I remember him from NL and it was at least a bit educational, because it was a mini-geographic-quiz, before in CF (if I remember correctly) he or his equivalent was flying in space saucer... what (IMHO) was fun.
Now... Mr G (with no offence) looks for me like a drunk, coming back to my island, after all-night-party.


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## Sander (Dec 28, 2020)

I understand many of the concerns "Team NL" has about NH. To keep it short and simple: I enjoyed playing NL back then, but I'm personally of opinion the giant leap in creative control & design of your island outweighs all of the advantages NL had. The nook miles achievement system unexpectedly gives me a lot of motivation to play & complete all stamps (even though the reward system could've been improved) For completionist purposes, I find it a great new addition. 

I do have great sentiments about NL and I genuinely think AC is becoming some sort of nostalgia brand after playing for more than 10 years now. 2020 was a very defining year of change - but NH is for sure THE game that pulled me through this year. In the future I will probably appreciate NH most in the entire AC line for that sole reason.


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## RollingAntony (Dec 28, 2020)

Monokuma73 said:


> I remember him from NL and it was at least a bit educational, because it was a mini-geographic-quiz, before in CF (if I remember correctly) he or his equivalent was flying in space saucer... what (IMHO) was fun.
> Now... Mr G (with no offence) looks for me like a drunk, coming back to my island, after all-night-party.


The quiz was replaced by the shovel, but that's Gulliver. Gullivarrr is a different character with his own miniquest; you must be confused 

And Gulliver and his totally different doppelgänger are totally drunk seagulls who falls out of their boat/pirate ship because they can't control themselves. I love them and I am eagerly awaiting the introduction of another Gulli- on the future xD Reintroduce the astronaut Gulliver (Gullinaut? Gullistarrr?) as a different character who gives out the Astro set from previous games.


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## Corrie (Dec 28, 2020)

They without a doubt, sold us all an unfinished video game and I'm still triggered about it.


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## 6iixx (Dec 28, 2020)

Corrie said:


> They without a doubt, sold us all an unfinished video game and I'm still triggered about it.


technically aren't all the games that come out now 'unfinished' though?  i mean, with all the DLC and crap that they already preemptively know they'll be selling, and purposely withhold things from games for that reason..


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## MidnightAura (Dec 28, 2020)

I strongly disagree that all games are sold unfinished or with Dlc on a regular basis. I play a variety of games and the only two I currently play in that category is the sims 4 and animal crossing new horizons.
Some games have expansions but generally that adds additional content, it’s not content that has previously been in the series in the base game. (Some exceptions like the sims 4 of course exist but that’s a different arguement altogether) 

I still play all the animal crossing games soI’m not coming from nostalgia. But I do think new horizons is lacking in gameplay compared to new leaf. It’s missing a certain charm. And it feels empty in comparison to that.


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## Corrie (Dec 28, 2020)

6iixx said:


> technically aren't all the games that come out now 'unfinished' though?  i mean, with all the DLC and crap that they already preemptively know they'll be selling, and purposely withhold things from games for that reason..


You're totally right and it sucks. I get having a finished game and then adding to it later, rather than making us buy a whole new game. But I'm seeing more and more content being cut out just for the sake of selling it to us later. Super lame :c

Pokemon Sword and Shield being prime examples but we won't get into that lol.


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## jasa11 (Dec 28, 2020)

Nh for me is 3x more fun than NL ever was. Its obvious the missing npcs will all come back as the game will be gettin updates for at least 2 more yrs. That aside, i spent 700 hrs on new leaf in about 2 yrs of gameplay while it took me exactly 6 months to get to 700+ in NH. Ive found Nh so much more exciting and fun and the the fact that were getting updates in this way makes the game even more fun to play. Also anyone that is bored of NH right now and is complaining about npcs like brewster coming back and all the others they keep complainin about is only gonna play the game for another week till theyd get bored again and leave it. Only thing I really want is gyroids and bulk crafting which for the gyroids im 100% are is coming in 2021

Also why tf all these ppl complainin even play the game? Like put the game down and pick it back up in 6 months and ull see how its gonna feel. Jus a waste of energy IMO. even i got small complaints but i dont even care to rant about them as nobody really cares


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## John Wick (Dec 28, 2020)

I think folks calling those of us who don't incessantly gush over this game, 'disrespectful', are once again gaslighting.

If we have an issue, we've posted it as respectfully as possible, but if I think something is ugly, I'm not going to pussyfoot around, I'll call it like I see it.

Just as I have when they've added something good to the game, I've given them kudos.

That's being honest.
Not disrespectful.

I'm also tired of being told I should appreciate the developers, when I do.
I just expect a bit more from them, because I know they could make NH the perfect game, by just adding back things we've enjoyed from previous titles, and frankly.. I'm baffled as to why they haven't.

The way I see it, is they (indirectly and not literally) work for us.
We pay them.
We buy expensive consoles, games and accessories.
We expect a game that is better than the previous title.

When we're given a game with the best qualities omitted, we have a right to be pissed.

I'm not going to hand out balloons for subpar work, in a game that is missing some fantastic items and features, and those items and endearing features ARE in/from New Leaf.

Add those in, and I'll thank you, for adding what should have already been there.

A year has gone by and no real usable furniture has been added.

Not all of us are fans of terraforming and crafting either.


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## Kalle (Dec 28, 2020)

John Wick said:


> I think folks calling those of us who don't incessantly gush over this game, 'disrespectful', are once again gaslighting.
> 
> If we have an issue, we've posted it as respectfully as possible, but if I think something is ugly, I'm not going to pussyfoot around, I'll call it like I see it.
> 
> ...



A lot of good points here.

What I'm seeing is just a few people not wanting to accept that other people have different opinions. It's great that NH is the favorite iteration of AC for some people. If someone thinks it's the best, that's fantastic. If it's their first AC game in particular, I'm actually a bit envious because there's nothing to miss and they also get to start finding their favorite villagers from a blank slate.

I miss that starting point. That's why for a long, long time I thought no future AC game would surpass the first on GC. I knew it mostly came down to nostalgia, especially when you compare it to a game like CF. But then NL arrived and my opinion finally changed.


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## Darkina (Dec 28, 2020)

Just my tiny two cents: The people that read the NH board on this forum are personally invested in the game. The title of the thread was incendiary and insulting. This thread was always going to get hot. I think perhaps this thread would have recieved a lot more validation and love had it been posted on the NL board instead. There is no wrong opinion here because there are no wrong opinions. I love chocolate. I hate chocolate. Both are completely valid opinions. But posting that you hate chocolate on a chocolate-lovers board is perhaps not the best idea.


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## daringred_ (Dec 28, 2020)

Darkina said:


> Just my tiny two cents: The people that read the NH board on this forum are personally invested in the game. The title of the thread was incendiary and insulting. This thread was always going to get hot. I think perhaps this thread would have recieved a lot more validation and love had it been posted on the NL board instead. There is no wrong opinion here because there are no wrong opinions. I love chocolate. I hate chocolate. Both are completely valid opinions. But posting that you hate chocolate on a chocolate-lovers board is perhaps not the best idea.



the NH board isn't solely for NH lovers, all opinions on the game are welcome on the forum. so your example doesn't apply because it's not a "NH lovers board", its just a "NH board". anyone who plays or has played NH, whether they enjoy it or not, is allowed to voice their opinion(s) on the game here. and, for the record, i have seen threads critiquing NH with less "incendiary and insulting" titles that also received the same amount of backlash, if not worse, from NH lovers. there was literally a thread where the OP _asked_ people why they didn't like NH, and then all the people who politely answered (myself included) got bashed and insulted so.


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## Locokoko182 (Dec 28, 2020)

Sheydra said:


> having only played new leaf and new horizons I feel one major difference between them. I stopped new leaf because it felt like a job, I had to get on or loose Too much. New horizons is much more relaxing for me personally, I don’t feel I have to get on with it.



I agree. I put in 800 hours in New Leaf in the 7 years I played it and now I’m up to the same in under a year with New Horizons. New Leaf felt too restrictive and repetitive over time.

that’s not to say I don’t miss some parts of New Leaf. I honestly liked how the island was, more than the Nook Islands. I wish they put some characters back in, but it’s honestly not a huge deal because if they aren’t put back in this game they could put them back in a future title. I also miss the rv amiibos too.

crafting honestly is pretty useful because it means I make a bunch of one object in a small amount of time. Before you could only get what you ordered or traded.


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## Darkina (Dec 28, 2020)

daringred_ said:


> the NH board isn't solely for NH lovers, all opinions on the game are welcome on the forum. so your example doesn't apply because it's not a "NH lovers board", its just a "NH board". anyone who plays or has played NH, whether they enjoy it or not, is allowed to voice their opinion(s) on the game here. and, for the record, i have seen threads critiquing NH with less "incendiary and insulting" titles that also received the same amount of backlash, if not worse, from NH lovers. there was literally a thread where the OP _asked_ people why they didn't like NH, and then all the people who politely answered (myself included) got bashed and insulted so.



Fair enough. I accept this. This is the NH board, covering all things - good and bad - about NH. I do have one small question: if you don't like the game, why are you playing it? I promise I'm not being inflammatory. I'm just curious why people who prefer NL don't drop NH completely and return to NL. I disliked Pocket Camp and dropped it. So there have been installments of the game that I disliked as well.


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## Locokoko182 (Dec 28, 2020)

daringred_ said:


> the NH board isn't solely for NH lovers, all opinions on the game are welcome on the forum. so your example doesn't apply because it's not a "NH lovers board", its just a "NH board". anyone who plays or has played NH, whether they enjoy it or not, is allowed to voice their opinion(s) on the game here. and, for the record, i have seen threads critiquing NH with less "incendiary and insulting" titles that also received the same amount of backlash, if not worse, from NH lovers. there was literally a thread where the OP _asked_ people why they didn't like NH, and then all the people who politely answered (myself included) got bashed and insulted so.



I think the problem, for this thread at least, was people thought it was unfair to say that the game was “discount” because they clearly tried to build upwards with things like crafting and terraforming. 
But I agree with Daringred. This is related to New Horizons, so why shouldn’t they be allowed to post in the NH board? The whole point is talking about why they dislike certain things in it. Saying that they should post it to another board so it doesn’t upset people is just like saying “hey, this upsets me you don’t like this. Put it where I can’t see it, despite being directly related to NH”.


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## daringred_ (Dec 28, 2020)

Darkina said:


> Fair enough. I accept this. This is the NH board, covering all things - good and bad - about NH. I do have one small question: if you don't like the game, why are you playing it? I promise I'm not being inflammatory. I'm just curious why people who prefer NL don't drop NH completely and return to NL. I disliked Pocket Camp and dropped it. So there have been installments of the game that I disliked as well.



believe it or not, you can critique something and still enjoy it, and also simultaneously like and dislike something. my dislike for NH isn't necessarily for what's in the game, it's largely for what it's missing and how empty it feels as a result of having simplified/removed countless features. i prefer the graphics in NH to NL (although i think it's worth noting that _NL's graphics were not bad for the year they were released in_), i like the addition of paths and fencing, i like that villagers can't leave without your permission or just put their houses down wherever they see fit, i like some of the new clothes, i like the new :3 mouth and button nose. i like a lot things, i just happen to dislike a lot more about the game.

also, i still play NL alongside NH so i don't have to go back. i never left it.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 28, 2020



Locokoko182 said:


> I think the problem, for this thread at least, was people thought it was unfair to say that the game was “discount” because they clearly tried to build upwards with things like crafting and terraforming.



i don't think calling it a "discount" is wholly unfair, even if it's not the word i'd use. something being discounted usually means part of the cost was removed, but in this case i think the OP was using it to refer to how NH had such a vast amount of the content that was available in the previous games removed, hence "discount".


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## Darkina (Dec 28, 2020)

daringred_ said:


> believe it or not, you can critique something and still enjoy it, and also simultaneously like and dislike something. my dislike for NH isn't necessarily for what's in the game, it's largely for what it's missing and how empty it feels as a result of having simplified/removed countless features. i prefer the graphics in NH to NL (although i think it's worth noting that _NL's graphics were not bad for the year they were released in_), i like the addition of paths and fencing, i like that villagers can't leave without your permission or just put their houses down wherever they see fit, i like some of the new clothes, i like the new :3 mouth and button nose. i like a lot things, i just happen to dislike a lot more about the game.
> 
> also, i still play NL alongside NH so i don't have to go back. i never left it.



Thank you for answering. I still see how this thread will get heated because people on this board are so invested in NH, me included. And I truly appreciate you taking the time to help me understand your point of view. Being very different from mine, it took more explaining for me to understand you. But I do now. Thank you.


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## Kalle (Dec 28, 2020)

daringred_ said:


> believe it or not, you can critique something and still enjoy it



Exactly. I'd say most of the criticism I've read about NH comes from people who care about it.


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## daringred_ (Dec 28, 2020)

Kalle said:


> Exactly. I'd say most of the criticism I've read about NH comes from people who care about it.



that's definitely the case for me. i didn't get this game and aim to be disappointed by it. i wanted to like it so badly, and i was so excited from the moment it was teased at E3. even when they revealed crafting (which i wasn't fond of, because it felt too minecraft-y to me), i kept my hopes up and tried to think that it wouldn't be that bad. i critique this game largely because i know it can be better and i want it to be.


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## satine (Dec 28, 2020)

I like the game alright, I think it'll hopefully improve by the time that they get more updates in however I just kinda feel frustrated with how like.... easy they make it? I don't think this will make much sense and I'm not sure how to word it. I haven't really even put as much time in it as some people have at this point but I feel like I've done everything already. I dunno if that's just from participating in online trade, or if it's just from them making it more friendly to "kids" maybe, but as someone who played the GC version years ago, I miss feeling challenged by it. I know it's not supposed to be a particularly challenging game, maybe that's dumb idk, but I feel like it wasn't hardly challenging at all. At least give the villagers a bit more personality. I wish they'd be more realistic. Or you'd have to work harder for their friendship, like on the GC? Idk. I just feel like after you decorate your island -- which honestly almost even feels cheapened by the whole terraforming thing (I don't care much for Minecraft after all) -- there's hardly anything to do other than fiddle your thumbs and wait for the next holiday.


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## maria110 (Dec 28, 2020)

I love ACNH but I wasn't offended by this thread's title.  When I play on my TV, which is not huge but good sized, it's kind of like being in an animated movie.  So fun!  But it's an animated movie with really bad dialogue that repeats over and over.  I just heard for the zillionth time that the island is too big to see across but not small enough for a sea monster to attack or whatever.  And I just decorated using the antique furniture yet again.  I love it but I wouldn't mind an update that would bring better dialogue and fresh furnishings and some QoL enhancements.  And I understand why a lot of people will be super ticked off if those improvements come in a pricey expansion pack or whatever you call it.


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## RollingAntony (Dec 28, 2020)

OP literally admitted to use the word discount to "rile up the opposition", the "NH lovers" as some have already named. There's constant threads about "things missing" and people constantly posting negative stuff about the game on all threads, which fine, it's just your opinion. Throwing around words like the aforementioned "discount", "unfinished", "it's not enough new", "I don't like so I don't count it" is going to start a discussion; it's not meant to not "accept your opinion" or what you want to call it. Especially when mostly all people are discussing repectfully and sharing great thoughts.

This shouldn't come down to the people who prefer NL vs the "NH lovers". Both have good and bad things and you can like one or another (or both) _without bringing the other down_.


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## daringred_ (Dec 28, 2020)

RollingAntony said:


> OP literally admitted to use the word discount to "rile up the opposition", the "NH lovers" as some have already named. There's constant threads about "things missing" and people constantly posting negative stuff about the game on all threads, which fine, it's just your opinion. Throwing around words like the aforementioned "discount", "unfinished", "it's not enough new", "I don't like so I don't count it" is going to start a discussion; it's not meant to not "accept your opinion" or what you want to call it. Especially when mostly all people are discussing repectfully and sharing great thoughts.
> 
> This shouldn't come down to the people who prefer NL vs the "NH lovers". Both have good and bad things and you can like one or another (or both) _without bringing the other down_.



when you (ubiquitous) come in here and tell people they're "glamorizing" NL and "idealizing" NL and telling them they need to "go back to NL", refusing to accept their opinion and/or dismissing it is exactly what you're doing but okay. criticism isn't synonymous with "bringing [the other] down".


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## trashpedia (Dec 28, 2020)

Ngl I found this game kinda hard to come back to, and sometimes I do feel like I'm missing out but at the same time, people have been saying the events have been very watered down. The last time I played NH days ago, I found it really hard to do anything when you can't really do much besides checking Able Sisters and the Nook shop. Kinda wish there was more updates that weren't focused on events.

Also it doesn't help that the joycon drift is the most annoying thing that still plagues me.


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## RollingAntony (Dec 28, 2020)

daringred_ said:


> when you (ubiquitous) come in here and tell people they're "glamorizing" NL and "idealizing" NL and telling them they need to "go back to NL", refusing to accept their opinion and/or dismissing it is exactly what you're doing but okay. criticism isn't synonymous with "bringing [the other] down".


There has been two people who have used those terms, and one of them further explained what they meant with that. Don't tell me that's all it takes to say that your opinion is being dismissed. Especially when those posts provided lots of insight of their own opinions and you can explain why you feel a word they used didn't feel right and get a better undestanding, like when you discussed with Locokoko.


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## daringred_ (Dec 28, 2020)

RollingAntony said:


> There has been two people who have used those terms, and one of them further explained what they meant with that. Don't tell me that's all it takes to say that your opinion is being dismissed. Especially when those posts provided lots of insight of their own opinions and you can explain why you feel a word they used didn't feel right and get a better undestanding, like when you discussed with Locokoko.



we're talking multiple threads here. also, yes, that's all it takes. sounds like you don't know what "dismissal" is, and it's hardly your place to tell people when they're allowed to feel as if their opinions are/n't being dismissed anyway. i'm tired of people acting like it's impossible or rude or disrespectful to prefer NL and/or make valid criticisms of NH, and since you seem intent on beating around the bush and talking technicalities, i'm not going to bother responding further.


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## Michelangelo (Dec 29, 2020)

Like I've said before, there's a difference between reasonable critiques, and then there's outright bashing the game. In general (NOT specifically in this thread), some people have bashed this game, and others gave critiques in a respectful way. 

The main problems I see people complain about are as follows:
1. The music
2. It's unfinished
3. Crafting and tools
4. Missing furniture and NPCs

I think those are hot-button issues most people have, and that's fine to discuss these topics. I just think there's a way to articulate grievances in a respectful manner is all. This is a general statement and I'm not calling out anyone specifically. 

(Brief rant) What I don't understand is, how some people still play the game when all they do is complain about it. It's like going to a restaurant they always complain at. They find problems with the food all the time, and they still return anyway. Why not just go to a different restaurant, then? Same thing with this game. If someone always gripes about the game, saying how much they hate this and that, and why can't this be like that, then they should go play something else.


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## daringred_ (Dec 29, 2020)

Michelangelo said:


> (Brief rant) What I don't understand is, how some people still play the game when all they do is complain about it. It's like going to a restaurant they always complain at. They find problems with the food all the time, and they still return anyway. Why not just go to a different restaurant, then? Same thing with this game. If someone always gripes about the game, saying how much they hate this and that, and why can't this be like that, then they should go play something else.



like i said to someone else above, you can critique something and still enjoy it. you can dislike aspects of something (or even the majority of it) and enjoy other parts. it's not black and white. i always used to get this sort of response when i criticized the writing and overall bigotry in one of my favorite shows, with people telling me i should just stop watching it, but i kept doing so because i loved one of the characters and she was a comfort character of mine. when she left, i did stop watching because i enjoyed nothing else about the show, and it was only getting worse. it's the same here. some people might dislike (or even hate) certain parts of the game, but enjoy others, and that's what keeps them playing. or maybe they're holding out hope that future updates will introduce aspects that are missing and don't want to give up completely because they love the franchise overall and want to believe it can improve in their eyes. hope that clears it up for you.


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## RollingAntony (Dec 29, 2020)

daringred_ said:


> we're talking multiple threads here. also, yes, that's all it takes. sounds like you don't know what "dismissal" is, and it's hardly your place to tell people when they're allowed to feel as if their opinions are/n't being dismissed anyway. i'm tired of people acting like it's impossible or rude or disrespectful to prefer NL and/or make valid criticisms of NH, and since you seem intent on beating around the bush and talking technicalities, i'm not going to bother responding further.


I'm truly sorry this was all you took from my post. Since you don't care to have a better discussion, I'm also fine with it, but if you do want to explain my technicalities and everything you say, I'm more than open to learn through PM, just to not derail further.





Michelangelo said:


> Like I've said before, there's a difference between reasonable critiques, and then there's outright bashing the game. In general (NOT specifically in this thread), some people have bashed this game, and others gave critiques in a respectful way.
> 
> The main problems I see people complain about are as follows:
> 1. The music
> ...


Exactly.


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## Michelangelo (Dec 29, 2020)

daringred_ said:


> like i said to someone else above, you can critique something and still enjoy it. you can dislike aspects of something (or even the majority of it) and enjoy other parts. it's not black and white. some people might dislike (or even hate) certain parts of the game, but enjoy others, and that's what keeps them playing. or maybe they're holding out hope that future updates will introduce aspects that are missing and don't want to give up completely because they love the franchise overall and want to believe it can improve in their eyes. hope that clears it up for you.


I agree that you can critique something and still enjoy the game. I love playing NH, but I dislike the tools breaking, for example. I understand that no game is perfect and not every feature is going to be a winner. 

What I'm talking about are the people who hate almost everything the game offers. After all, people play video games for entertainment, right? So why would they play a game where their reaction is mostly negative?


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## daringred_ (Dec 29, 2020)

Michelangelo said:


> I agree that you can critique something and still enjoy the game. I love playing NH, but I dislike the tools breaking, for example. I understand that no game is perfect and not every feature is going to be a winner.
> 
> What I'm talking about are the people who hate almost everything the game offers. After all, people play video games for entertainment, right? So why would they play a game where their reaction is mostly negative?



like i said, you can dislike the majority of something and still enjoy even just one aspect of it. that was the case for me with that tv show -- i disliked everything but that one character (and her relationship with one other) to some degree. could be that some people generally dislike the game overall but want to see their villagers or design their house or complete their encyclopedia. could be anything, simple or otherwise, that they enjoy. even so, i don't think i've ever encountered someone on here who dislikes the majority of the game, or even flat out hates more than a few aspects (and they tend to be aspects most people are irked by on some level, like a lack of bulk crafting or tools breaking etc.).


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## John Wick (Dec 29, 2020)

Kalle said:


> Exactly. I'd say most of the criticism I've read about NH comes from people who care about it.


100% agree.

If I wasn't so passionate about AC, I wouldn't care enough to either defend, or criticise it.


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## Chris (Dec 29, 2020)

It is important to remember that _New Horizons_ is not a direct sequel to _New Leaf_. It not having the same features doesn't mean they are "missing" but rather that the developers chose not to include them. _New Horizons_ is a different game with a different format and focus.


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## Michelangelo (Dec 29, 2020)

daringred_ said:


> like i said, you can dislike the majority of something and still enjoy even just one aspect of it.


I've never thought of it that way. I guess I can relate that sentiment with high school, for example. Like, you may dislike many of your classes, but then there's one or two that you really like that'll make you look forward to the day.


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## Kalle (Dec 29, 2020)

I'd say that Gyroids missing for the first time in the series' mainline is a not something that the developers simply "chose not to include." Aside from special characters, I'd say that in most cases missing features come down to the game not being a completed work. That said, even though there are still a good number of bugs at least none of them are game breaking like those in other big company releases.


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## DrewAC (Dec 29, 2020)

trashpedia said:


> Ngl I found this game kinda hard to come back to, and sometimes I do feel like I'm missing out but at the same time, people have been saying the events have been very watered down. The last time I played NH days ago, I found it really hard to do anything when you can't really do much besides checking Able Sisters and the Nook shop. Kinda wish there was more updates that weren't focused on events.
> 
> Also it doesn't help that the joycon drift is the most annoying thing that still plagues me.


Have you tried setting any goals for yourself/your town or tried expanding your daily routine aside from checking the shops?

My routine right now is going through mail, going to Able’s, going to Nook’s, searching my town for fossils (which will either get gifted to my friends, villagers, or sold at Nook’s), building a snowman (finally got every DIY from it!), scanning my beach for a DIY bottle/Gulliver/Gulivarr, talking with villagers, and then spending some time on Nookazon selling items. Then I work on crafting and gathering materials that are set to expire, and either decorate my town or sell/give away extra things I don’t need. If I’m in the mood, I’ll find other things to keep me playing even longer. Previously, extra time meant going after the encylopedia, but now I’ve caught every fish/bug. I’m just waiting for the last 2 sea critters in the coming months!

My feeling is it’s what you make of it. Try making new friends through TBT or the AC Discord, build wishlists on Nookazon, and work towards gifting each other each thing you and your friend want. I do this with a few people, and it’s so fun and very fulfilling.


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## bebebese (Dec 29, 2020)

Vrisnem said:


> It is important to remember that _New Horizons_ is not a direct sequel to _New Leaf_. It not having the same features doesn't mean they are "missing" but rather that the developers chose not to include them. _New Horizons_ is a different game with a different format and focus.


I think the choice to leave out so much from the rest of the series that were previously taken for granted (furniture series, NPCs, deeper relationships/dialogue with villagers, that je ne sais quoi AC charm) makes NH feel like a generic town decoration/build sim with a coat of AC paint, and that's at least why I'm having trouble enjoying it. I don't feel like this is an AC game yet.


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## kemdi (Dec 29, 2020)

At this point Ive more than gotten my money's worth of hours out of NH, and I still enjoy the game. With that said, some points on NH that stand out to me:

The three biggest improvements over NL in the game(imo) are terraforming and features related to it, moving buildings at will, and villager placement behavior(how the move in/out). The music is subjective, but I  prefer some of the NH music over others in the series(and vice versa), except for the Gamecube game music, which I like the most.

Aside from those things, in my experience, almost everything else in NH has been either diminished or a straight step down from NL. Things that weren't and shouldn't have been frustrating have become pointlessly so(extreme limit on mail order items that only arrive next day, breaking tools including golden ones, exploding flower population after rain/snow which you can only clean up with said breaking tools). Some newly introduced features are also pointlessly frustrating: one item per session crafting mechanic, clothes shopping with no shopping cart, materials that stack at different amounts instead of uniformly. 

As for the amount of items in the game, I'm not sure how disappointing it is just how much was lost in the transition between games. I played NL for years. It took me at least 2 years to finish the catalog, and that was before the WA update. NH took me a matter of months, and thats in addition to completing all DIY recipes, except Celeste. I finished everything because at the time I didn't realize just how comparatively smaller NH's catalog was. The only reason I held off on Celeste is because once this realization was made, I  decided it would be best to collect her diys slowly, just so I could have something to do. 

NH, as much as I hate to say it, is an unfinished game. With NL it was a finished product that was slowly drip fed new content over time which made it exciting to play. NH on the other hand is unfinished,  is(so far) being drip fed old content thats passed off as new, and has many of Animal Crossings defining features either watered down or removed. That said...I still enjoy the game. I don't want to be too harsh since I know NH will be adding content, be it old or new, that will add greatly to the game. I expect (or hope really) that once these updates are completely finished, NH will either meet or exceed NL in terms of either gameplay, items, features,  or all three.


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## meggiewes (Dec 29, 2020)

I think the second year of the game will be the defining year for New Horisons game as a service model. I'm trying to withhold judgement until then to see how it holds up over the next year and what they actually add to it.


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## Airysuit (Dec 29, 2020)

I do miss a lot of the stuff of previous games (not just ACNL, but I mean.... where is my windmill so I can make a dutch tulip field?? sad)

At the same time tho, I've played acnh a lot more and a lot longer than new leaf! In new leaf i did maybe 1 halloween event, one cherry season and  2 or 3 bug/fish offs over the course of 3 years, and played around 500 hours. I've played this game since march, have attended all holidays so far, missed maybe 2 tourneys and only completely skipped september. Besides that I played almost everyday, and been enjoying a lot of mechanisms more than i did in previous game (changing (indoor)decorations each season, breeding flowers, talking to my villagers). 

Sure I still miss unbreakable tools, but I try to see this game as its own game. And if you don't compare it and see some quality of life 'flaws' as charming, I think its an amazing game, which is probably keeping my mental health somewhat manageable at the moment.

I understand the criticisms to tho, and would welcome any changes or QOL updates with open arms. but to me thats will not be necessary to enjoy the game.


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## Boidoh (Dec 29, 2020)

daringred_ said:


> like i said to someone else above, you can critique something and still enjoy it. you can dislike aspects of something (or even the majority of it) and enjoy other parts. it's not black and white.



So well put. Many people (even irl with me) don't get this concept. I can call out the flaws for something and still enjoy it. People think that I "hate everything" simply because I give critique. I love Animal Crossing. If I didn't I wouldn't play it. It is because of that love for the series that I wish it could be the best game it can be.


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## Monokuma73 (Dec 30, 2020)

Boidoh said:


> So well put. Many people (even irl with me) don't get this concept. I can call out the flaws for something and still enjoy it. People think that I "hate everything" simply because I give critique. I love Animal Crossing. If I didn't I wouldn't play it. It is because of that love for the series that I wish it could be the best game it can be.



Very well said. 
If any game is not acceptable in 100% there's no reason to buy and play. Sure, there are small percentage of players bought a game (any) and had a different hopes what leads to disappointment - but I wonder if those players will want to join community (as forums) and continuously play.

Most of the criticism are result of expectations related to improvements, simply: "we players, want this games to be much better".

Many of us had a previous experience with older (AC) games and their expectations was grown for years.

Let's compare some aspects:

1. Original AC (GC) - player has 15 villagers. Console (GC) has limited power 20 years ago, but this power was sufficient to give such amount of existing villagers. Now, 20 years later, with new (newest) console, much powerful we got just 10 villagers. Shall we accept it? Maybe it's enough for some players, but not enough for others.

2. General compare to older titles, like New Leaf - when some players trying to say: "We got something in NL and this not existing in NH" - very often got the answer like this: "But, this is not NL, is not a NL 2" - yes, I agree... however, some game elements are just pure "copy & paste" from older games. For example: we had a "Christmas lights" on trees during the festive season in GC, there were existing in NL... and we got those again. 
Let me understand, sometimes if it's convenient it's not the same game, but sometimes does?

3. I'm not denying NH gave us new features, and terraforming, placing items outside, better graphics etc. is something what not requires complains, however if needs to be "polished", why not to address any issues?


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## Bilaz (Dec 30, 2020)

I mean I personally feel like New Leaf was the game that removed the charm from the series  (that and City Folk’s wrecked villagers)
Don’t get me wrong, I loved it. But it’s the game that removed the NPC backstory, it’s the game that removed interacting with NPCs just for the life sim aspects (Getting to know Brewster, getting to know Sable, Blathers and Nook opening up to you randomly, heck Wild World’s golden axe trading event involved learning a lot. Was the whole story of Pete, Pelly and Phyllis in New Leaf? I don’t remember unlocking it. ‘Talking to myself’, ‘Message of the week’)

New Leaf has a lotttttt of items, things to unlock, and new items to get with the things you unlock. It’s an amazing game but it was mainly about quantity


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## Monokuma73 (Dec 30, 2020)

Bilaz said:


> I mean I personally feel like New Leaf was the game that removed the charm from the series  (that and City Folk’s wrecked villagers)
> Don’t get me wrong, I loved it. But it’s the game that removed the NPC backstory, it’s the game that removed interacting with NPCs just for the life sim aspects (Getting to know Brewster, getting to know Sable, Blathers and Nook opening up to you randomly, heck Wild World’s golden axe trading event involved learning a lot)
> 
> New Leaf has a lotttttt of items, things to unlock, and new items to get with the things you unlock. It’s an amazing game but it was mainly about quantity



I wish I could have enough time, or enough time in the every single day to play and finally compare all AC games.
I do understand, sim-aspect of the game is not really achieved, but if the necessary depth has been achieved once, why not to continue and work towards it?
I'm not expecting everything has to be the same in every single game, but if something is really good, why not to add some more and more?


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## Crowsie (Dec 30, 2020)

[Reminder that these opinions are about the game as of writing this post, not how it is/we hope it's going to be in the future.]

For a game with such a heavy emphasis on decoration, they dashed a lot of the decorative aspects for NH. The exotic and perfect fruits are gone, we're missing some flowers (no carnations or violets), you can't change the exteriors of your homes, etc. Ordinances, which were such a significant change... are gone as well, leaving a highly customizable experience that much less custom. 

The gutting of holidays is another thing I didn't like. And I don't just mean the ones they're adding back in. It feels like an unhappy compromise between WW's "Let's take out the standard holidays and make up some universal ones to globalize the game!" and NL's "Let's add them all back in and then some to globalize the game!". So far the updates have been only for major, recognizable western holidays like Christmas, Thanksgiving, and Halloween. I'm not complaining since I love those days, but I miss going to overseas villages to get items for Setsubun, Obon, or Earth Day. I know they were just Isabelle item dispensers, but it made AC as a whole feel more international if that makes sense. I also miss minor holidays like Valentine's and the Equinox/Solstice. And the Face-Cutout Standees. I miss the Face-Cutout Standees. 

I miss all of the furniture. I know, big surprise. ACNL had a really cute thing going with all of the tabletop and 1 tile 'clutter' objects that gave life to rooms they were placed in. ACNH's current selection is so rigid. I know the art direction of New Horizons was dollhouse/toy chic, but good Lord. Even the most elaborate, thoughtful islands and homes look like dioramas to me. And though I appreciated the redesigns of the Jack/Spooky and Harvest sets to make them look less silly, they only went from looking like a children's toy set to a srs bsn adult collector's toy set. At this point, I think I'd prefer the gaudy purple and pink and pumpkin stuff back.


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## Monokuma73 (Dec 30, 2020)

Crowsie said:


> For a game with such a heavy emphasis on decoration, they dashed a lot of the decorative aspects for NH. The exotic and perfect fruits are gone, we're missing some flowers (no carnations or violets), you can't change the exteriors of your homes, etc. Ordinances, which were such a significant change... are gone as well, leaving a highly customizable experience that much less custom.



Exotic and perfect fruits. Those are been already implemented, and we know for sure, developers know how to do this.
Creating extra fruit (with same rules: own (cheapest fruit), coconuts (medium price) and remaining (high price)) wouldn't be a big effort. Comparing complexity of different objects, extra fruits it's not a challenge. Same with flowers, rules for flowers (breeding and cross-breeding) are set already, why not to have some more with more variety?
Ordinances... I think, in NH we have less power than we had in NL. Tom Nook is a unquestionable ruler of our island, and we are just "island representative", with limited power.


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## Boidoh (Jan 1, 2021)

Monokuma73 said:


> when some players trying to say: "We got something in NL and this not existing in NH" - very often got the answer like this: "But, this is not NL, is not a NL 2" - yes, I agree...



Honestly, that response that is given is infuriating, because it's so illogical. It's not a New Leaf 2, BUT, it is the next iteration of Animal Crossing.

If we complained about public work projects being gone... fine, it's not New Leaf 2 - PWPs were a core feature of New Leaf. If we complained about the train station being gone, or the town tree. Again, sure, it's not New Leaf 2, the argument makes sense there. If we complained in New Leaf that the city was gone, fine, saying it's not City Folk 2 is a valid response. But when we complain about basic things that are missing "oh this is not New Leaf 2" quite frankly becomes nothing more than a phrase you can pull out whenever someone criticizes New Horizons for a lack of content.

I don't think people see things like the lack of the campsite from the Welcome Amiibo update as a con of New Leaf. That felt like a very "New Leaf" thing and no one expected to see it again. 

The complaints about the lack of content come from things that are seen as the "next step in Animal Crossing" but were reverted or left out in New Horizons.

	Post automatically merged: Jan 1, 2021

And actually, funnily enough - New Horizons and New Leaf are the only games in the series to have names that are so similar to each other. Wild World. City Folk (or Let's Go to the City). Pocket Camp? Happy Home Designer. Amiibo Festival, lol. From the name alone it's an obvious allusion to "New Leaf", so even though I don't think it's "New Leaf 2", to deny that it should build upon New Leaf is quite frankly ridiculous.


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## John Wick (Jan 1, 2021)

I definately miss the campground and the RV's as those amiibo items were awesome.

I think photopia is a tragic waste of a fantastic NPC.

Would love to see RV's return.
They could add them to Harv's island, and items could be bought with crook miles.

I mean, I have 700k crook miles and they are pointless to me, as there is nothing to spend them on (for me.).


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## Boidoh (Jan 1, 2021)

John Wick said:


> I definately miss the campground and the RV's as those amiibo items were awesome.
> 
> I think photopia is a tragic waste of a fantastic NPC.
> 
> ...



I mean, it was fun and nice, and I'd rather have it in NH than not if there was a choice - but I don't think anybody feels New Horizon is incomplete due to its absence (especially since it came so late in NL's life).


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## John Wick (Jan 1, 2021)

Boidoh said:


> I mean, it was fun and nice, and I'd rather have it in NH than not if there was a choice - but I don't think anybody feels New Horizon is incomplete due to its absence (especially since it came so late in NL's life).


I have all the amiibo cards and figures, and know exactly what items came with them.

The RV cards (series 5) was a set of 50 cards.

Honestly, I can name a few hundred items (most of them customizable including food) I really miss, just off the top of my head, and the RV's provided a great deal of them.

I paid a lot for those amiibo's, and didn't think they would be a 'one and done' deal.

They should be more useful than what they are in NH.

Reguardless, I won't be happy unless we get some, if not all, the items back.

It's all well and good to give you an entire island with the option to put items outside, but then to omit so many items that would've been worthwhile putting outside is just baffling!

Imagine having all the food items, plants, furniture sets, totems, posts (pantheon etc) hay bales, tractor, crates, fairy bottles, beacon fire, poogie, zen chairs, box seat, luxury car, round beaded cushions, oh, the fancy tea set was also awesome.

I miss the brick counter, the bread making set, bread basket, cheese, tarts, cupcakes, veggie basket, stew pot, milk canisters, K.K.'s guitar case that clicked open, the interactive watermelon, etc.

Oh, pirate armor, and plate armor, jomon pottery, drip pail, wheat grass, sarcophagus, all the drums like timpano and conga, creepy bones, the merlion and african mask!

Mannequins.. the windmill, zen bell, trellis.

The HHD giant furniture.

So many items.


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## Boidoh (Jan 1, 2021)

John Wick said:


> I have all the amiibo cards and figures, and know exactly what items came with them.
> 
> The RV cards (series 5) was a set of 50 cards.
> 
> ...



Eh. Amiibo in general was underutilized by Nintendo. I've been disappointed with them from the start and I'm surprised the Switch even has amiibo functionality at all. I love amiibo - but sadly, after Smash 4, it felt like Nintendo was done with it from a gameplay perspective. I can't recall any amiibo that was more than little in-game bonuses. I'm sure they brought a lot of great items, and honestly I'd rather have them than not have them - but the amiibo stuff, for me at least, is a lot lower on the priority queue than some major elements that are not in NH.

But hey, maybe I feel that way because I didn't play much after the Welcome Amiibo update came out.


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## John Wick (Jan 1, 2021)

Those were just items off the top of my head, and not all amiibo.

I miss the real Gulliver items, and all the furniture sets.

Even items like the customizable stained glass is/are gone.


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## deleted (Jan 1, 2021)

Sure, the game has a few considerable flaws, but it’s better than NL by a long shot. If you don’t like NH, don’t play. No one is forcing you to play it. There’s a rant thread for a reason.


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## daringred_ (Jan 1, 2021)

ra_mry said:


> Sure, the game has a few considerable flaws, but it’s better than NL by a long shot. If you don’t like NH, don’t play. No one is forcing you to play it.



if you're not going to actually read the thread and the perfectly fair criticisms people gave, and/or even try to share your own POV politely, maybe don't submit your needlessly provocative reply.


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## deleted (Jan 1, 2021)

daringred_ said:


> if you're not going to actually read the thread and the perfectly fair criticisms people gave, and/or even try to share your own POV politely, maybe don't submit your needlessly provocative reply.



You can have your opinion, and I can have mine. This is a public forum. Have a nice day


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## John Wick (Jan 1, 2021)

ra_mry said:


> Sure, the game has a few considerable flaws, but it’s better than NL by a long shot. If you don’t like NH, don’t play. No one is forcing you to play it. There’s a rant thread for a reason.


So sick of this sort of reply. -> 'Don't play it if you don't like it'. :-|

It's absurd.

Just because we want/expect more from a series we've played for over a decade and a half, doesn't mean we don't like it!

If we didn't care about the game, we wouldn't bother criticising it's shortcomings, because we wouldn't give a crap. :-/

Also, opinions that aren't positive aren't limited to the rant thread.


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## daringred_ (Jan 1, 2021)

ra_mry said:


> You can have your opinion, and I can have mine. This is a public forum. Have a nice day❤



aggressively telling people not to play a game they might enjoy other parts of just because you don't understand the concept of being able to criticize something you like isn't an "opinion", it's just flat-out rude actually.


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## RollingAntony (Jan 1, 2021)

Boidoh said:


> And actually, funnily enough - New Horizons and New Leaf are the only games in the series to have names that are so similar to each other. Wild World. City Folk (or Let's Go to the City). Pocket Camp? Happy Home Designer. Amiibo Festival, lol. From the name alone it's an obvious allusion to "New Leaf", so even though I don't think it's "New Leaf 2", to deny that it should build upon New Leaf is quite frankly ridiculous.


That's only the localized name for the english release. It's Animal Crossing: Jump Out (it's on the 3DS) and Animal Crossing: Gather (you can play at the same time on a Switch) which have no relation.


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## Boidoh (Jan 1, 2021)

RollingAntony said:


> That's only the localized name for the english release. It's Animal Crossing: Jump Out (it's on the 3DS) and Animal Crossing: Gather (you can play at the same time on a Switch) which have no relation.



Ah, I forgot to check out the Japanese names. Wasn't a major point of mines, but thanks for clarifying.


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