# Idea for TBT



## Cory (Mar 29, 2016)

There should be a column for gender on the left side of the screen. We could use proper pronouns or if they want it hidden/non-binary we could use they.


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## tae (Mar 29, 2016)

i actually wouldn't be opposed to this idea. this really isn't that bad of an idea.
maybe then the amount of times i'm called a woman would shrink to none.


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## EtchaSketch (Mar 29, 2016)

I like this idea tbh


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## jiny (Mar 29, 2016)

i like the idea


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## Nightmares (Mar 29, 2016)

Yeah, sounds good tbh

I don't really care about people thinking I'm the wrong gender of whatever, but I can see how it'd be beneficial for others


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## Cory (Mar 29, 2016)

Nightmares said:


> Yeah, sounds good tbh
> 
> I don't really care about people thinking I'm the wrong gender of whatever, but I can see how it'd be beneficial for others



Idk it's not much but it could help others


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## tae (Mar 29, 2016)

Cory said:


> Idk it's not much but it could help others



it really can, and it makes simple slip ups easier than having to dig through about me pages looking for a hint or clue. i think it would be useful. now the million dollar question would be, would admins consider installing something like that.


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## Cory (Mar 29, 2016)

Wouldn't be that hard to do. The side bar is a little cluttered tho.


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## Nightmares (Mar 29, 2016)

I remember one of the mods saying it was a good idea and that they'd bring it up


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## Cory (Mar 29, 2016)

Ah, I'm suprised it hasn't been implemented yet.


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## seliph (Mar 29, 2016)

I'd love this, considering how many people use she/her towards me. And then people who think saying "she's a he" is a way to correct themselves lmao ew stop

Also if it clutters the sidebar too much, maybe it could just be a little gender symbol (♂ or ♀) by the username or usertitle. Nonbinary people could have  or ⚥, or none


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## Trent the Paladin (Mar 29, 2016)

Cory said:


> Wouldn't be that hard to do. The side bar is a little cluttered tho.



Could just place it somewhere near the online blinker up by the username.

Honestly I came into this thread with low expectations and it was a decent idea. gj


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## Cory (Mar 29, 2016)

Tom said:


> Could just place it somewhere near the online blinker up by the username.
> 
> Honestly I came into this thread with low expectations and it was a decent idea. gj



I'm tearing up that's the nicest thing you have ever said to me. And that is a good place to put it.


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## Paperboy012305 (Mar 29, 2016)

Hey, other forums do this, why not TBT?


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## Cory (Mar 29, 2016)

Paperboy012305 said:


> Hey, other forums do this, why not TBT?



That's actually where I got the idea from. Other forums.


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## Paperboy012305 (Mar 29, 2016)

Cory said:


> That's actually where I got the idea from. Other forums.


There's gotta be some reason why Jeremy won't allow this.


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## Cory (Mar 29, 2016)

Paperboy012305 said:


> There's gotta be some reason why Jeremy won't allow this.



I don't think he's not allowing it. Maybe it was never a pressing matter to him.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 29, 2016)

Seen this mentioned before.

I personally never feel the need to refer to anyone on here as he/she though since you kind of just quote someone or send them a message to respond and if you're mentioning the person, well, you say their name.

If anyone's affected then I guess they can just put whatever in their user title.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Cory said:


> I don't think he's not allowing it. Maybe it was never a pressing matter to him.



It's more that he's flooded with suggestions, lol.

- - - Post Merge - - -

Nevermind - just contradicted myself by saying 'he'.


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## Cory (Mar 29, 2016)

Yea but there aren't really negatives to this. It's just an added thing to make some people time on here easier


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 29, 2016)

But Jeremy's an obvious one. You can't get any more masculine than this cat:







- - - Post Merge - - -



Cory said:


> Yea but there aren't really negatives to this. It's just an added thing to make some people time on here easier



Fair. It's just a bit of an inconvenience to be adding in this and that.


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## Cory (Mar 29, 2016)

I don't really see how it's inconvenient.


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## Trent the Paladin (Mar 29, 2016)

With other forums is could have been worked into the framework for the forum itself, whereas Jeremy/Justin might have to go looking for a code to add the feature on vBul.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 29, 2016)

Cory said:


> I don't really see how it's inconvenient.



How many updates do you see to this site excluding events that have visible changes? Not many.

If you go about tweaking stuff, something might break.  

- - - Post Merge - - -

And I'm not sure how it would be implemented... as a sort of opt-in thing, I assume?


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## Cory (Mar 29, 2016)

Yea other vbulliten sites have it. It's just a code I don't think it could break.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 29, 2016)

Cory said:


> Yea other vbulliten sites have it. It's just a code I don't think it could break.



I don't know much about vBulletin. Let's just wait for some official response on the matter.


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## Cory (Mar 29, 2016)

Me neither tbh.


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## inkling (Mar 29, 2016)

i dont really see why ppl online should know my gender but thats just me.


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## Cory (Mar 29, 2016)

inkling said:


> i dont really see why ppl online should know my gender but thats just me.



I believe there would be an option for it to remain hidden if you want it to.


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## seliph (Mar 29, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> If anyone's affected then I guess they can just put whatever in their user title.



No thanks I want a cute user title not pronouns


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 29, 2016)

nvll said:


> No thanks I want a cute user title not pronouns



I meant just slipping it in at the end. For example, "bingbong.tenhourguy.com" would change to "bingbong.tenhourguy.com ♂". But hey, might mess up the character limit for some and if it doesn't look aesthetically pleasing to you then that's fair enough. I just find it unnecessary.  

Ignore that I skipped over the fact it already says _tenhour*guy*_.


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## seliph (Mar 29, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> I meant just slipping it in at the end. For example, "bingbong.tenhourguy.com" would change to "bingbong.tenhourguy.com ♂". But hey, might mess up the character limit for some and if it doesn't look aesthetically pleasing to you then that's fair enough. I just find it unnecessary.
> 
> Ignore that I skipped over the fact it already says _tenhour*guy*_.



You might find it unnecessary but there are people on this site, namely trans and nb people, who don't like being misgendered. I personally don't think they should have to make their usertitle tacky looking just for people to refer to them with the correct pronouns but hey.


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## Cory (Mar 29, 2016)

nvll said:


> You might find it unnecessary but there are people on this site, namely trans and nb people, who don't like being misgendered. I personally don't think they should have to make their usertitle tacky looking just for people to refer to them with the correct pronouns but hey.



This was my main reason for proposing it. I know that there are some trans/non-binary people on this site and I wanted to help them stop being mislabeled.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 29, 2016)

Cory has no visible gender here so you don't need to be trans to be mislabelled.  

Anyway, I'm just digging myself a hole here.

If you think it's a good idea then by all means get as much support as possible for it.

Just stating my opinion but won't/can't do anything to stop you from attempting to persuade Jeremy or anyone else in charge from implementing such a feature.


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## Aronthaer (Mar 29, 2016)

Support. I keep getting called a "she" haha. JUST BECAUSE 70% OF THIS SITE IS FEMALE-

hahaha


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## inkling (Mar 29, 2016)

Cory said:


> I believe there would be an option for it to remain hidden if you want it to.



okay then i like that


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## seliph (Mar 29, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Cory has no visible gender here so you don't need to be trans to be mislabelled.
> 
> Anyway, I'm just digging myself a hole here.
> 
> ...



??? Cory's a guy I don't know what you're getting at there but I realize cis people can be misgendered as well. I said "namely" because trans and nb people are affected most by it considering it'll stir up dysphoria.


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## Cory (Mar 29, 2016)

nvll said:


> ??? Cory's a guy I don't know what you're getting at there but I realize cis people can be misgendered as well. I said "namely" because trans and nb people are affected most by it considering it'll stir up dysphoria.



in his defense Cory can be a guy or girls name.


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## seliph (Mar 29, 2016)

Cory said:


> in his defense Cory can be a guy or girls name.



I've never heard of a girl named Cory but like I know you're a guy that's what I'm getting at. Unless you've recently realized you weren't or something then my bad.


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## inkling (Mar 29, 2016)

nvll said:


> I've never heard of a girl named Cory but like I know you're a guy that's what I'm getting at. Unless you've recently realized you weren't or something then my bad.



i seriously hope you're joking.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 29, 2016)

Cory said:


> in his defense Cory can be a guy or girls name.



Yeah, I made sure to Google the name first, lol.

Trying to not get too involved in this thread now whilst still paying attention to what's going on.


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## Cory (Mar 29, 2016)

nvll said:


> I've never heard of a girl named Cory but like I know you're a guy that's what I'm getting at. Unless you've recently realized you weren't or something then my bad.



nah I didn't realize anything haha


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## Mimi Cheems (Mar 29, 2016)

This actually sounds like a really good idea tbh


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## seliph (Mar 29, 2016)

inkling said:


> i seriously hope you're joking.



About what? Not knowing a girl named Cory?


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## inkling (Mar 29, 2016)

nvll said:


> About what? Not knowing a girl named Cory?


your attitude and all the assumptions you make is completely and utterly ironic considering how you're tearing down animalcrossing person


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## seliph (Mar 29, 2016)

inkling said:


> your attitude and all the assumptions you make is completely and utterly ironic considering how you're tearing down animalcrossing person



Literally what are you talking about, I'm not making any assumptions and I'm not trying to "tear them down" pls elaborate


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## EtchaSketch (Mar 29, 2016)

inkling said:


> your attitude and all the assumptions you make is completely and utterly ironic considering how you're tearing down animalcrossing person



Hey, can you quit that? It seems as if you're the one trying to tear down this thread. It's uneccesary.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 29, 2016)

I'm going to bed. It's 02:00 and at this rate our entire existence is unnecessary.

Please try not to bicker too much or else the thread will get locked.


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## tae (Mar 29, 2016)

inkling said:


> your attitude and all the assumptions you make is completely and utterly ironic considering how you're tearing down animalcrossing person



who pissed in your wheaties.


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## Hatori (Mar 29, 2016)

On topic, I really like this idea. I support it and hopefully it does get implemented as it does not seem to be something that requires too much time to code. Hope to see it around on the forums soon!


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## seliph (Mar 29, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> I'm going to bed. It's 02:00 and at this rate our entire existence is unnecessary.
> 
> Please try not to bicker too much or else the thread will get locked.



It's only 9PM ):
I hope _you_ didn't think I was trying to tear you down just because I disagreed 'cause that wasn't my intention at all.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 29, 2016)

nvll said:


> It's only 9PM ):
> I hope _you_ didn't think I was trying to tear you down just because I disagreed 'cause that wasn't my intention at all.



Nah, disagreeing is always cool and this is a bit of a sensitive topic for some so... meh.

Anyway, I'm off.

Timezones!​
Presumably you're in America.


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## LethalLulu (Mar 29, 2016)

100% for this.  If you don't like it, don't use it, that's all, really.  But for those who get seriously triggered by being misgendered, this can only help.


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## Justin (Mar 29, 2016)

Will keep this in mind, it's come up a few times recently. Although personally I think it would probably be done as an option on your profile page rather than on the postbit. (like the Location field) But that's not definitive, perhaps we would decide otherwise.


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## Bowie (Mar 29, 2016)

I think, if anything, we should just have a male/female/other tab in our profiles. I think that would be good enough.


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## Araie (Mar 29, 2016)

Honestly, I really don't mind wherever it may be implemented; it would still be a really nice thing to have.


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## Damniel (Mar 29, 2016)

You stole this from Mafia Universe, but i agree.


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## Mura (Mar 29, 2016)

taesaek said:


> i actually wouldn't be opposed to this idea. this really isn't that bad of an idea.
> maybe then the amount of times i'm called a woman would shrink to none.



Yes..
Happens sooo many times to me. 
Idek why. I don't talk like a girl.



Justin said:


> Will keep this in mind, it's come up a few times recently. Although personally I think it would probably be done as an option on your profile page rather than on the postbit. (like the Location field) But that's not definitive, perhaps we would decide otherwise.



You're a really cool girl. 
whoops
Maybe if you had set your gender to male, and we could all see it, this wouldn't happen, lol


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## Mariah (Mar 29, 2016)

Murabito. said:


> Yes..
> Happens sooo many times to me.
> Idek why. I don't talk like a girl.


How do girls talk?


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## ObeseMudkipz (Mar 29, 2016)

Murabito. said:


> You're a really cool girl.
> whoops
> Maybe if you had set your gender to male, and we could all see it, this wouldn't happen, lol



His name is Justin tho

- - - Post Merge - - -

I do like this idea


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## Dim (Mar 30, 2016)

MAYBE... We could actually have everyone's gender on their profile????????


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## tae (Mar 30, 2016)

I have my gender listed in my about me but the amount of people who misgender me is still incredibly high. not everyone is interested in viewing a profile, which why I think having something visible /on our posts/ is more proactive / useful in this case than adding another tab to a profile barely anybody truly reads anyway.


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## Ayaya (Mar 30, 2016)

I have a different suggestion to make. Can I mention this here or should I make a new thread? 

I remember suggesting a pinging system for TBT where you can @ someone so they'll be notified of your post/reply, just like in Gaia Online and Flight Rising. I didn't know if the same feature is available for vBulletin but apparently it is! 
http://www.dragonbyte-tech.com/stor...medium=Advanced+User+Tagging&utm_content=Lite

It's rather expensive but I think it'd be useful like for pinging lurkers in Villager Trading Plaza all at once instead of sending them VMs, in mafia games for prodding someone to contribute, replying to conversations, etc. 

What do you guys think?


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## Dim (Mar 30, 2016)

Lol with all this gender confusion everyone on here probably feels like Professor Oak.


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## Damniel (Mar 30, 2016)

Ayaya said:


> I have a different suggestion to make. Can I mention this here or should I make a new thread?
> 
> I remember suggesting a pinging system for TBT where you can @ someone so they'll be notified of your post/reply, just like in Gaia Online and Flight Rising. I didn't know if the same feature is available for vBulletin but apparently it is!
> http://www.dragonbyte-tech.com/stor...medium=Advanced+User+Tagging&utm_content=Lite
> ...


That's already been brought up many times, the leaders say they like the idea.


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## AppleBitterCrumble (Mar 30, 2016)

I support the idea!
I haven't been called a guy (yet) which is good but it could help out others a lot!


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## Sgt.Groove (Mar 30, 2016)

Im a guy... i support this...
Have yet to be mistaken for a girl, but just in-case someone in the future...


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 30, 2016)

Murabito. said:


> Yes..
> Happens sooo many times to me.
> Idek why. I don't talk like a girl.



Maybe your avatar? Just an idea.



Nox said:


> MAYBE... We could actually have everyone's gender on their profile????????



I don't think *everyone's* would be necessary.  

Here's an interesting read showing than women are typically seen as better coders but only if their gender is hidden. Some similar gender bias could also be applied here which is why I think it should be completely optional. 

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/12/women-considered-better-coders-hide-gender-github


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## Diancie (Mar 30, 2016)

A simple yet great idea! This should be taken into consideration.


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## Dim (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Maybe your avatar? Just an idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah but changing gender should be an option in edit profile. What do they expect us to do? Look at the user's New Leaf name and make an estimated guess?


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 30, 2016)

Nox said:


> Yeah but changing gender should be an option in edit profile. What do they expect us to do? Look at the user's New Leaf name and make an estimated guess?



Or nothing because unless people are dating or something, gender isn't really relevant.  

At this rate we may as well be adding in race and all...

If everyone on here is genderless then there's no bias, everyone can be referred to by their username or 'they' and everyone's happy.

If someone's bothered about that then they can use their username, user title, avatar or _about me_ section to write whatever. We're all human at the end of the day.


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## lars708 (Mar 30, 2016)

Oh yea that's nice, i always feel so ashamed when i use the wrong pronoun for someone


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## Trent the Paladin (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Or nothing because unless people are dating or something, gender isn't really relevant.
> 
> At this rate we may as well be adding in race and all...
> 
> ...



Why are you trying to be an ass and making something out of nothing?


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## visibleghost (Mar 30, 2016)

i think adding a pronoun and/or gender column would be a great idea!


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## seliph (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Or nothing because unless people are dating or something, gender isn't really relevant.
> 
> At this rate we may as well be adding in race and all...
> 
> ...



How is ensuring people use the correct pronouns towards you comparable with having your race, which hardly comes up in conversation let alone on the boards listed?
Very few people use singular "they" to refer to everyone they come across, and while it'd be great if people did, I don't expect everyone to. Especially people whose first language isn't English. That's making matters even more complicated than just having a gender or pronouns section.


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## Sgt.Groove (Mar 30, 2016)

Well, usually when websites do a gender thing, its usually male or female, never considering the third option, everyone has a gender but theres always only a male or female option, no 3rd (if you know what i mean here)


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## Trent the Paladin (Mar 30, 2016)

Darius-The-Fox said:


> Well, usually when websites do a gender thing, its usually male or female, never considering the third option, everyone has a gender but theres always only a male or female option, no 3rd (if you know what i mean here)



The few I've used have included a third N/A option where the icon was just a plain color instead of the typical blue/pink.


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## tae (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Or nothing because unless people are dating or something, gender isn't really relevant.
> 
> At this rate we may as well be adding in race and all...
> 
> ...



you sound so offended towards the idea of other people being comfortable and not having to deal with being misgendered.

gender does have relevance past relationships and attraction of people. you sound nasty.
if you don't want your gender on your profile, cool, that's why we said make it's visibility OPTIONAL. but you've still refused to back down. cool, you're like one in 10 people here who aren't for it. good for you. if it becomes a function, don't use it. seriously. problem solved.

i'm all for the idea of they/them being the norm for pronouns when meeting new people, but we don't live in a perfect world and many people are opposed/ confused/ don't care enough to use gender neutral pronouns when meeting new people. as ideal as it may be, people just aren't there yet. bless you for being able to use they/them for new encounters, but sadly, you are in fact, not the majority. 

i don't know what vendetta you've got against tbt having the option to have gender on their side profiles, but i don't see your point in ****ting all over here against it when you have no real relevance towards it. "well use their tbt name instead" ok, i've been around on this forum for over a year now and i'm still misgendered by people who reply to me using my username, taesaek. i've had my "he/him/his standard hey i'm trans please don't call me a ****ing woman." in my bio for over a year now and i have over 15k page views and you know what? i'm /still/ misgendered on a weekly basis on the forums. yeah at the end of the day we are all human, but i don't see why you feel such strong need to continue to bash something that will be incredibly beneficial to people who do not fit the standard gender binary. 

all we're asking is to feel comfortable. why are you so against that?


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 30, 2016)

Tom said:


> Why are you trying to be an ass and making something out of nothing?



My point was that it's nothing though...



nvll said:


> How is ensuring people use the correct pronouns towards you comparable with having your race, which hardly comes up in conversation let alone on the boards listed?



Because gender doesn't come up in conversation any more than race...



Darius-The-Fox said:


> Well, usually when websites do a gender thing, its usually male or female, never considering the third option, everyone has a gender but theres always only a male or female option, no 3rd (if you know what i mean here)



Few people are a bit of both.  

I know Google has the options of _male_, _female_ and _other_. For the latter you can enter literally anything which I think is a little too far as it should either be _a bit of both_ or _undefined_.

- - - Post Merge - - -



taesaek said:


> you sound so offended towards the idea of other people being comfortable and not having to deal with being misgendered.
> 
> gender does have relevance past relationships and attraction of people. you sound nasty.
> if you don't want your gender on your profile, cool, that's why we said make it's visibility OPTIONAL. but you've still refused to back down. cool, you're like one in 10 people here who aren't for it. good for you. if it becomes a function, don't use it. seriously. problem solved.
> ...



I'm not offended by it but rather just saying it's not a major issue that needs addressing right this very second.

You will always be Taesaek (or on this thread #77) to us.  

- - - Post Merge - - -

Let's mark this down as another discussion I should've just let alone. *sigh*


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## tae (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> I'm not offended by it but rather just saying it's not a major issue that needs addressing right this very second.
> 
> You will always be Taesaek (or on this thread #77) to us.



your attitude towards it reeks of, "it doesn't apple to me, therefore it doesn't matter." 

nobody here is saying we need this implemented right this minute.
god damn jubs, why don't you get off your ass and install it today, you big monster you !! wowza. 

no, we're just saying it wouldn't be a bad thing to consider. especially if it's a simple addon that wont require a hell of a lot of tinkering to add in. i'm sure there's tone of great ideas for tbt that people have mentioned and have been wanted for however long that time period is, but i don't see why you're so adamant at dismissing something that actually does affect a persons mental health. i really don't.


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## Trent the Paladin (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> My point was that it's nothing though...
> 
> Because gender doesn't come up in conversation any more than race...
> 
> ...


MY POINT was that you're going out of your way to not only **** on an idea and others, but also that you're trying to create negatives to idea where there is none. Gender comes up far more often than race, especially if you get to know other members well enough. Ultimately you don't get to decide someone's gender, if someone wants to be Spaghetti gendered on Google that's cool! Let them be, it causes literally no harm to anyone. 

Ultimately yes, you ought to have dropped the thread like you said you would pages ago since you're clearly grasping at straw here to find negatives to an idea.


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## Cory (Mar 30, 2016)

When I made this thread this is not what I expected to happen...


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## tae (Mar 30, 2016)

Cory said:


> When I made this thread this is not what I expected to happen...



this is the most civil i've ever been in a thread cory, please be supportive.


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## lars708 (Mar 30, 2016)

Cory said:


> When I made this thread this is not what I expected to happen...



Ikr it got out of control, let's hope that it stops now


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## LethalLulu (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Because gender doesn't come up in conversation any more than race...



Based on what logic/statistics?


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## Cory (Mar 30, 2016)

taesaek said:


> this is the most civil i've ever been in a thread cory, please be supportive.



I didn't even read ur long post yet I'm on my phone.


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## tae (Mar 30, 2016)

LethalLulu said:


> Based on what logic/statistics?



i too would like to see some sources for this. 



Cory said:


> I didn't even read ur long post yet I'm on my phone.



you're missing out, cory.


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## Cory (Mar 30, 2016)

Gimme a few mins and I'll read it.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 30, 2016)

LethalLulu said:


> Based on what logic/statistics?



Personal experience.



Cory said:


> When I made this thread this is not what I expected to happen...



There are often arguments in the Bell Tree HQ board. Sorry for being the main source of fuel for the fire this time.  :/



taesaek said:


> no, we're just saying it wouldn't be a bad thing to consider. especially if it's a simple addon that wont require a hell of a lot of tinkering to add in. i'm sure there's tone of great ideas for tbt that people have mentioned and have been wanted for however long that time period is, but i don't see why you're so adamant at dismissing something that actually does affect a persons mental health. i really don't.



I'm not trying to say it's a bad idea to consider but rather trying to sound a little more neutral about it. Ugh, tones of voice are hard to convey through text and I may have been a little too brash.



Tom said:


> MY POINT was that you're going out of your way to not only **** on an idea and others, but also that you're trying to create negatives to idea where there is none. Gender comes up far more often than race, especially if you get to know other members well enough. Ultimately you don't get to decide someone's gender, if someone wants to be Spaghetti gendered on Google that's cool! Let them be, it causes literally no harm to anyone.
> 
> Ultimately yes, you ought to have dropped the thread like you said you would pages ago since you're clearly grasping at straw here to find negatives to an idea.



The only negatives I have actively stated are that is doesn't appear to be critically necessary. Not trying to find any more, really. Also, if someone believes they're some sort of weird spaghetti gender then they should seek help, lol.


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## seliph (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Because gender doesn't come up in conversation any more than race...


Actually it comes up infinitely more than race. Every time you refer to someone as he, she, or they you are bringing up gender. The only time race is mentioned is in race threads which are hardly ever made.



AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> You will always be Taesaek (or on this thread #77) to us.


Who's "us"? Tae has been pretty much my best friend for years, way before we joined this forum, and I want him to be referred to as whatever he wishes to be referred to as. I don't know who you're talking for here.


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## lars708 (Mar 30, 2016)

taesaek said:


> this is the most civil i've ever been in a thread cory, please be supportive.



Oops i immediatly ditched you sorry, didn't mean it like that. I just don't think that it is worth the hassle that's all


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 30, 2016)

nvll said:


> Actually it comes up infinitely more than race. Every time you refer to someone as he, she, or they you are bringing up gender. The only time race is mentioned is in race threads which are hardly ever made.



But _they_ is gender neutral...?



nvll said:


> Who's "us"? Tae has been pretty much my best friend for years, way before we joined this forum, and I want him to be referred to as whatever he wishes to be referred to as. I don't know who you're talking for here.



Us = everyone viewing the thread right now.


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## That Zephyr Guy (Mar 30, 2016)

This whole discussion is funny to me because let's look at the pros and cons.

Pros:
People can feel more comfortable with how people refer to them
If people are uncomfortable with showing their gender they can leave it blank

Cons:
?????? Literally nothing ???????


If it makes people more comfortable and there's no drawbacks to it, why not do it....?


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## LethalLulu (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Personal experience.



Sorry, that's not a very good source, because based on my personal experience, gender can come up in 1 out of 4 sentences, but race can come up only once per meeting a person.  So if I say thousands of sentences to one person, gender is going to be coming up 250 times more often than race.

And my personal experience would be equally as credible as your personal experience.


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## seliph (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> But _they_ is gender neutral...?
> 
> 
> 
> Us = everyone viewing the thread right now.



Yes, they is *gender* neutral. Notice the word gender. Every time you use pronouns towards someone their gender(s) or lack thereof are being brought up.
And I see plenty of people who are either Tae's friends or people who respect him in general viewing the thread, not people who just see him as "#77" or whatever. Way to dehumanize someone.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 30, 2016)

That Zephyr Guy said:


> This whole discussion is funny to me because let's look at the pros and cons.
> 
> Pros:
> People can feel more comfortable with how people refer to them
> ...



The cons are that the system has to be implemented which could take a few hours and cause minor site disruption whilst it's being added in but that's about it to be honest.


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## Cory (Mar 30, 2016)

That Zephyr Guy said:


> This whole discussion is funny to me because let's look at the pros and cons.
> 
> Pros:
> People can feel more comfortable with how people refer to them
> ...



I was just about to write that I don't understand the negatives of this.


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## tae (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> *Personal experience.*
> I'm not trying to say it's a bad idea to consider but rather trying to sound a little more neutral about it. Ugh, tones of voice are hard to convey through text and I may have been a little too brash.




i don't see your reasoning towards the race/gender comparison you've made because it really lacks any form of sense whatsoever. you don't sound neutral about it at all though? that's why i'm so confused. like i stated before, nobody said it needs to come into effect right this minute. just that it's something a lot of people apparently are willing to fully support / justify the potential importance of it being an added feature to the bell tree. 





nvll said:


> Actually it comes up infinitely more than race. Every time you refer to someone as he, she, or they you are bringing up gender. The only time race is mentioned is in race threads which are hardly ever made.
> 
> Who's "us"? Tae has been pretty much my best friend for years, way before we joined this forum, and I want him to be referred to as whatever he wishes to be referred to as. I don't know who you're talking for here.



bless your soul kai. the same goes to you 100%. i know you're not as misgendered on tbt as i seem to be, but it still breaks my heart knowing you're ever misgendered to begin with. 

- - - Post Merge - - -



AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> The cons are that the system has to be implemented which could take a few hours and cause minor site disruption whilst it's being added in but that's about it to be honest.



there literally is no con..
THIS CAN BE A "con" TOWARDS LITERALLY ANY SITE UPDATES WHAT SO EVER?? 


you're literally talking to just talk now.


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## seliph (Mar 30, 2016)

Boohoo site disruption, that has never happened before. Easter egg hunt? What are you talking about the site was totally fine the whole time.

So basically you're saying no changes should ever be made because you'd have to not use the site for a few hours? Really?


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## That Zephyr Guy (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> The cons are that the system has to be implemented which could take a few hours and cause minor site disruption whilst it's being added in but that's about it to be honest.



Oh no, your use of a website for maybe an hour at most is more important than making someone feel comfortable in their own skin. How tragic. I'm crying for you.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 30, 2016)

nvll said:


> And I see plenty of people who are either Tae's friends or people who respect him in general viewing the thread, not people who just see him as "#77" or whatever. Way to dehumanize someone.



Well, I meant like "oh, what's written in post #77 is really something to consider".

Surprised nobody's started bickering about the differences between gender and sex, but let's not begin bickering about yet another thing. Just throwing my wandering mind's thoughts out there.


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## Trent the Paladin (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Well, I meant like "oh, what's written in post #77 is really something to consider".
> 
> Surprised nobody's started bickering about the differences between gender and sex, but let's not begin bickering about yet another thing. Just throwing my wandering mind's thoughts out there.



You should really just stop talking then


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## seliph (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Well, I meant like "oh, what's written in post #77 is really something to consider".
> 
> Surprised nobody's started bickering about the differences between gender and sex, but let's not begin bickering about yet another thing. Just throwing my wandering mind's thoughts out there.



Literally no one is talking about sex, why would it be brought up?
Are you trying to change the topic now? Lol


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## Cory (Mar 30, 2016)

Look buddy I'm trying to be nice, but you should really stop talking on here because you are only digging yourself a deeper and deeper grave.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 30, 2016)

That Zephyr Guy said:


> Oh no, your use of a website for maybe an hour at most is more important than making someone feel comfortable in their own skin. How tragic. I'm crying for you.



I don't use this site 24/7, y'know.

Anyway, going around in circles, I just don't see why everyone has to be up in arms saying "I'm male", "I'm female", "I'm both genders" or "I'm the spaghetti monster".


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## Belle of Pripyat (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Because gender doesn't come up in conversation any more than race...



Huh?  I've got one e-mail address that makes it impossible to know if I'm male or female. It's kind of a playful username, so I've been asked what sex I am a few times. I've been on the Internet since 1997, and _not once_ has anyone ever asked me if I'm black or white. And not once have I asked someone else what color their skin is. In the many forums I've been part of over the years, I can't recall anyone ever asking someone about their race. Sex? Yes. Sexual orientation? Yes. Race? Nope!

I actually do check out people's profiles and it would be nice to see if someone is male or female or whatever they identify as. Sometimes it's easy to guess, but it's not always obvious. I don't want to make incorrect assumptions and piss off people.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 30, 2016)

nvll said:


> Literally no one is talking about sex, why would it be brought up?
> Are you trying to change the topic now? Lol



Still roughly the same topic.

So... how's the weather where you are?  



Cory said:


> Look buddy I'm trying to be nice, but you should really stop talking on here because you are only digging yourself a deeper and deeper grave.



Already noticed that. See:


AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Let's mark this down as another discussion I should've just let alone. *sigh*


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## LethalLulu (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> I don't use this site 24/7, y'know.
> 
> Anyway, going around in circles, I just don't see why everyone has to be up in arms saying "I'm male", "I'm female", "I'm both genders" or "I'm the spaghetti monster".



Not everyone, we even made it clear it wouldn't be everyone.  People who are legitimately triggered by being misgenered would use this mainly.  I know I wouldn't, personally.


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## seliph (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Anyway, going around in circles, I just don't see why everyone has to be up in arms saying "I'm male", "I'm female", "I'm both genders" or "I'm the spaghetti monster".



Because being called "she" just because I have long hair and have made some raunchy comments about male celebrities has gotten very annoying


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 30, 2016)

nvll said:


> Because being called "she" just because I have long hair and have made some raunchy comments about male celebrities has gotten very annoying



But we don't know you have long hair because this is the internet. Just saying.


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## Trent the Paladin (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Still roughly the same topic.
> 
> Already noticed that. See:



Hardly. And if you noticed that you'd stop kicking the beehive by posting here, however your wandering thoughts don't seem to continue a tap or off switch.


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## seliph (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> But we don't know you have long hair because this is the internet. Just saying.



You're right! It's not like there's a "What Do You Look Like" thread where people post pictures of themselves.
Can you stop saying "we" and "us" when you just mean yourself? It's making your posts look even sillier.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 30, 2016)

Tom said:


> Hardly. And if you noticed that you'd stop kicking the beehive by posting here, however your wandering thoughts don't seem to continue a tap or off switch.



Gender is *usually* the same as your sex, so in my humble opinion (opinions can vary, let's just note that) it's roughly the same topic. Roughly.

Trying to post here less bit by bit but I don't want to just ignore people.  :/


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## Cory (Mar 30, 2016)

oh god...
i reported this thread because it got way to out of hand 
next feature they should implement is being able to lock your own threads on all boards


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## LethalLulu (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Gender is *usually* the same as your sex, so in my humble opinion (opinions can vary, let's just note that) it's roughly the same topic. Roughly.
> 
> Trying to post here less bit by bit but I don't want to just ignore people.  :/



Like you ignored my post B)

Edit - also, gender is NOT the same as sex.  They are in the same category, like cats and dogs are both mammals.  Das it


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## tae (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> I don't use this site 24/7, y'know.
> 
> Anyway, going around in circles, I just don't see why everyone has to be up in arms saying "I'm male", "I'm female", "I'm both genders" or "I'm the spaghetti monster".




gosh you sound so nasty. 

you might not be affect by dysphoria, and you might not be set off into episodes or a dissociative state of mind but let me tell you it ain't fun. and if having something as simple as a little "male" icon or label on my profile can prvent me or my friends, or anyone on the bell tree who sufferes from gender dysphoria from having any form of episode possible, i'm all ****ing for it. and if you're not because you don't care about the well being of other people, for being you don't think it's important. well, kuddos to you for being gross.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 30, 2016)

nvll said:


> You're right! It's not like there's a "What Do You Look Like" thread where people post pictures of themselves.
> Can you stop saying "we" and "us" when you just mean yourself? It's making your posts look even sillier.



Not every single person on this thread has looked every single post on that thread. I bet the 12,345th person who signed up to this forum has no idea what you look like in the slightest.


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## That Zephyr Guy (Mar 30, 2016)

Lmao can we just make a poll and be done with this silly ass conversation


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## seliph (Mar 30, 2016)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Gender is *usually* the same as your sex, so in my humble opinion (opinions can vary, let's just note that) it's roughly the same topic. Roughly.
> 
> Trying to post here less bit by bit but I don't want to just ignore people.  :/



Opinions can also be wrong, which yours is.
Peoples gender often matches their sex, but that doesn't make the two the same thing. These shoes match my top but they're not both tops.

Anyways sorry your thread got nasty Cory 'cause it's a really great idea.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Mar 30, 2016)

LethalLulu said:


> Like you ignored my post B)
> 
> Edit - also, gender is NOT the same as sex.  They are in the same category, like cats and dogs are both mammals.  Das it



USUALLY! That's why I bloody bolded it.


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## Oblivia (Mar 30, 2016)

Sorry to shut this down guys, but the bickering is getting just a _little_ out of hand at this point.

I can see that a lot of you feel pretty passionately about something like this being implemented, and while I won't promise it'll happen, I will say that it's something I feel should be more thoroughly discussed amongst the staff.  

Also, please remember that it's okay to have differing opinions so long as you're stating them in a respectful manner and not resorting to making personal attacks against other members.  I know this can be difficult when a topic has a lot of personal significance to you, but people are always more open and receptive to hearing a different viewpoint when they're not being torn down for stating how they feel about the topic.  Just something to keep in mind.


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