# Staff, sages, and everyone else



## Sporge27 (May 16, 2007)

Ok look.  The staff is considering removing the sage rank.  Why?  because we can't really get new sages less other members feel excluded.

What would it be replaced with?  something that would have monthly elections, that way everyone has a shot.  you couldn't be on it consecutive months or something to keep mixing it up.  There would also be something special for those helping with the site.  This is all rough draft though we probably aren't close to applying it.


I also wanted to say that this is in response to the posts JJ made, as SOMEONE keeps moving the thread to an unviewable area...  I honestly don't see why, an outside opinion wouldn't be that bad and no flaming had started from it which becasue of these moves I now feel is inevitable.

I ask this not moved or deleted, if it is you got a problem in the staff as well as with the sages.

Toodles!


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## UltraByte (May 16, 2007)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

> Ok look.  The staff is considering removing the sage rank.  Why?  because we can't really get new sages less other members feel excluded.


 That's stupid that people feel excluded. It's like saying Merry Christmas in America, people get all "OMG SAY HAPPY HOLIDAYS YOU ******". It's really dumb.


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## Sporge27 (May 16, 2007)

UltraByte said:
			
		

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 Look the point is that on a small forum it is hard to keep a group like that constantly going.   No one has said they felt excluded, but when was the last time we added a sage?  For that matter, what have sages done that normal members haven't?

Part of the problem is having a more fluid program would keep people interested more because there is something to earn.  

Honestly would this change affect people that much?


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## AndyB (May 16, 2007)

I've never felt excluded by this. 
I feel better knowing someone who knows what they're doing, most of the time, is in higher rank than me, so I'd feel safe so to speak.
EDIT: It wouldn't hardly at all.


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## UltraByte (May 16, 2007)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

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 For your information, a NORMAL MEMBER is trying to keep the Podcast alive.


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## Justin (May 16, 2007)

UltraByte said:
			
		

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Indeed.

Seconded.


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## Sporge27 (May 16, 2007)

Light Avenger18 said:
			
		

> I've never felt excluded by this.
> I feel better knowing someone who knows what they're doing, most of the time, is in higher rank than me, so I'd feel safe so to speak.


 EXACTLY!

being a sage really hasn't been any different than someone with a high post count.

knda @ UB  
This is why we would have special rank thing for those working on the site/podcast included instead of sages.  some elected thing would be great for normal members to get recognition for doing more than others on the forum, like the sage program was, but the difference is it isn't permanent, so if you drift off the forum for the most part, hey you can still come back and chat, but you aren't the special rank unless you stick around.


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## UltraByte (May 16, 2007)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

> knda @ UB
> This is why we would have special rank thing for those working on the site/podcast included instead of sages.  some elected thing would be great for normal members to get recognition for doing more than others on the forum, like the sage program was, but the difference is it isn't permanent, so if you drift off the forum for the most part, hey you can still come back and chat, but you aren't the special rank unless you stick around.


 So now we need a rank to work on the podcast? What a load of crap.


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## DarthGohan1 (May 16, 2007)

Here's my personal view on what the Sage program was meant to be and what it has become:

MEANT TO BE:
-Reward for long-term good members

WHAT IT BECAME:
-Signal to certain members that they could act inappropriately and irresponsibly
-Just not enough - instead of being glad of being a Sage, certain Sages continuously demanded more


That's the basics... as you see, it just went down the wrong road.


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## AndyB (May 16, 2007)

DarthGohan1 said:
			
		

> Here's my personal view on what the Sage program was meant to be and what it has become:
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> MEANT TO BE:
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 I guess those people believed they had huge powers, to match their egos, they get away with anything.


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## Propaganda Man (May 16, 2007)

The Sages rank should stay, some sages should go. Storm has said that he doesn't add more sages because there are too many. Now you are saying we are going to take away the rank because we aren't adding enough?





> WHAT IT BECAME:
> -Signal to certain members that they could act inappropriately and irresponsibly
> -Just not enough - instead of being glad of being a Sage, certain Sages continuously demanded more



I could say the same for certain staff members, no? Maybe the staff should do a better job at picking sages.


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## Propaganda Man (May 16, 2007)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

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 LIE!


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## UltraByte (May 16, 2007)

Propaganda Man said:
			
		

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 qft


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## Furry Sparks (May 16, 2007)

DarthGohan1 said:
			
		

> WHAT IT BECAME:
> -Signal to certain members that they could act inappropriately and irresponsibly
> -Just not enough - instead of being glad of being a Sage, certain Sages continuously demanded more


 Thats a *CEN-3.0-SORD*ed up way to put it.

It never was the first, at least for me, and I think none of the other sages. 
For the second, that was only a few times, and if its a reward... shouldn't we get something?


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## Jeremy (May 16, 2007)

ZELDAFREAK104 said:
			
		

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 This is opinion we're talking about.  What's inappropriate for the staff might not be for you.

For example, one might say that using a swear, even though it's censored, is inappropriate.


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## Furry Sparks (May 16, 2007)

STORMCOMMANDER said:
			
		

> For example, one might say that using a swear, even though it's censored, is inappropriate.


 You can just say that you don't want me to swear, you don't have to say it like that.


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## Jeremy (May 16, 2007)

ZELDAFREAK104 said:
			
		

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 I was just using it as an example.


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## Furry Sparks (May 16, 2007)

STORMCOMMANDER said:
			
		

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 Sure, whatever.


Sages don't get anything, yet staff says its a reward and we should be happy to have it... Yet we get pestered to work on things in the sage board by staff, like the item guide and other things like that. The only thing we really get is a board, of which is half made up of arguments.


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## Tennis=Life (May 16, 2007)

Yeah, some Sages got egos.  Whoo, I'm proud to say I was the only Sage at one point who believed we were fine the way we were, but the rest of em pushed for more powers.  I'm not sure if I care really that much if the Sages are gone.  It'll be weird having the color of my rank (a darker non bolded green).


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## Furry Sparks (May 16, 2007)

Super_Naruto said:
			
		

> Yeah, some Sages got egos. Whoo, I'm proud to say I was the only Sage at one point who believed we were fine the way we were, but the rest of em pushed for more powers.


Is that a contradiction I see?

And I wasn't pushing for more powers specifically, I was more complaining that storm didn't even trust us enough to be able to delete our own posts. (even though my posts didn't look like that)


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## Justin (May 16, 2007)

ZELDAFREAK104 said:
			
		

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I believe so.




			
				ZELDAFREAK104 said:
			
		

> And I wasn't pushing for more powers specifically, I was more complaining that storm didn't even trust us enough to be able to delete our own posts. (even though my posts didn't look like that)


Same for me.


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## Tennis=Life (May 16, 2007)

Justin125 said:
			
		

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 Oh, but you were still with the group pushing for "WE NEED POWER" "MORE POWER"


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## Justin (May 16, 2007)

Super_Naruto said:
			
		

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 *points back to what ZF said*


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## Nate (May 16, 2007)

You guys are getting crazy over this. It's just a rank. People will still know you were sages, so you'll still be honored. You should just accept it, to make it less of a hassle to the staff.


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## Grawr (May 16, 2007)

Whatever the staff decides to do is okay by me. 


Ranks don't matter in my eyes. I don't come here every day aiming to be the next sage or mod or something. I come here to talk to friends and have good conversations. Isn't that what forums are supposed to be about in the first place?

Lets try not to turn this into something it doesn't have to be...arguing will do no good.


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## DarthGohan1 (May 16, 2007)

ZELDAFREAK104 said:
			
		

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 So why does everyone think it's so amazing to be a staff member?  We're not really getting rewarded, and we do tons of work.


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## DarthGohan1 (May 16, 2007)

Gengar said:
			
		

> Whatever the staff decides to do is okay by me.
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 Exactly.


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## Furry Sparks (May 16, 2007)

DarthGohan1 said:
			
		

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Where did I say ANYTHING about that?


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## Tyler (May 16, 2007)

Woah Woah Woah guys slow down....

Let the semi-peace person talk.

So yes the sage rank is about to go kaput however that doesn't mean it's the end of the world. It can be replaced with other things. Because EVERYONE makes mistakes. 

If I had a choice I would make it so that only some sages were gone, however this whole argument when to such an extent that a sage was banned today. Really it is all our faults and you guys shouldn't be involved in our business. 

You guys can do what ever you want in reason. We don't have to do it. I mean if you had the correct permissions you could probably throw your own unique project like as TBT Town and Sunlight. Just because you don't have the rank doesn't mean anything.

You guys aren't helping at all by swearing and your just making it worse for the staff. I don't want to be here to see a bunch of my friends banned. Do you? Sages, Staff, Friends, Members, and anyone that this might concern, please just take this as a small step. Even if it a step backwards, you can make a huge leap forward with any kind of step and determination.

/corny speech


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## Sporge27 (May 16, 2007)

look I felt I needed to just get this out here by now.  I am sorry this sort of stuff has to happen sometimes, but it happens.  

There are just many things wrong with the system set up right now, and let me tell you we mean to fix it.   The problem with the sage thing is it is based on something like Nsider.  Nsider has thousands of users and a few really stand out.  Some come some go, but either way it doesn't matter on a large scale there.  Here though what happens to one member affects the whole forum, doesn't it? 

So by this point changing the special rank from something designed for a massive forum to something made for a small community should help it work better.  But change isn't always easy, the staff just wants a little help to get through this.

Being on the staff isn't all milk and cookies either (as a matter of fact I have yet to see any sort of treat for doing this).  As a mod I get to try and solve the problems of this forum.  I get to deal with the spammers, I get to try to settle arguments.  This is my free time you know.  

The staff isn't perfect, I know I am not, but we try.  The sage thing might have been a mistake right from the start.  It doesn't matter though because we are trying to fix it.  

I hope you guys can try to understand we want to try to improve this, please just try and give us some suggestions on how to improve things around here.  It is seriously giving me a head ache right now.  If you read this far I congratulate you, I don't even want to read through this trash I call typing


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## SMRPG1 (May 16, 2007)

^^Never read your post much.     

Anyways I think it's really upto the Admins and Global Moderators on who should be Sage and who shouldn't. Yes I know that's how it goes and I respect it. I never log on here expecting to become anything above a member with the rank "Red Rock" or whatever the other ranks are here. If staff decide that I have earned the member group "Sage" then fine and thanks. If not I'll just continue to do what I do here. Which is pop up whenever I feel like it and post to whatever I feel like.

 Now the member group "Sage" to me is an elite membership to this site. It shows the members here who have been dedicated to the site, helped out and set a good example to everyone else who has came across this site. Now I can't really judge any of the Sages here because I have not been active enough to know each one of their actions. 

 But really if you are a Sage. Then congrats. Go make an example of yourself to other members here who think they could become a Sage. Make an example of how you got were you are now on TBT.

 Anyways that's my mini-rant before bed. Peace! :gyroidgrin:


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## Grawr (May 16, 2007)

My turn...


I personally don't know much about the sage-staff relations, so I might not know what I'm talking about here...

But, I do know that TBT wasn't meant to cause stress or arguements in any way. 

Why did we come here in the first place? Was it really because we wanted to become sages or staff members? Or was it to talk and have good conversations over something we all enjoy? 

Think about it, please, does it really matter if one of us is higher "rank" then the other? Not really. 

Forums were invented to have conversation. Thats all. I'm sure ranks didn't come along for a while, actually. Theres no reason for anyone to think the sage or staff or anyone else is better than you. Both the sages and the staff have strongly stated that many times.

Think back now, everyone. Do you like TBT better this way? With arguements flying around and such? Or do you prefer when everyone is in deep discussion and laughing and enjoying their time?

We can go back to that time.

These arguements are created because people are fighting for what they believe to be right, correct? Well, what does "being right" really get you? Less friends? More enemies? Already a few people have left because of all this. Being right isn't always the answer.

Whether we like it or not, however, its the Staff's decision. Please, people, if we could just bring ourselves let them go forth with this, the arguements and things will end.



I greatly enjoy TBT. Without it, well, things wouldn't be the same for me. I wish the best for it, and its people.






                                                                                              Gengar


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## Sporge27 (May 16, 2007)

feels good to let it all out  :wacko:


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## Tyler (May 17, 2007)

DarthGohan1 said:
			
		

> WHAT IT BECAME:
> -Signal to certain members that they could act inappropriately and irresponsibly
> -Just not enough - instead of being glad of being a Sage, certain Sages continuously demanded more


 Gohan, I will take responsibility for that. Espically during 06. That was a mistake I tried to avoid but I screwed that up big time which lead to the whole destruction of the sage rank, months later.

I'm not that worried however I think I need to point it out that it's my fault... kinda.


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## ac1983fan (May 17, 2007)

Get rid of stages.
Heck, get rid of the entire rank system.
Just make it Member1 (can edit psots), Member2(can start polls) and Member3(can delete post), plus mods and admins.
When I first join TBT, I always thought I would make a good sage.
But, I realized that being a sage didn't matter.
When we had the sage competition, I was so mad when I wasn't picked.  The three people that were picked to compete.... One of them is banned, one has disapeared, and one is... well you know (no offense)
Now sure, I'm all up for giving rewards such as titles or virutal medals to people who do something exceptional to help tbt like helping with the site or the podcast, and I'm not against allowing people to win contest ranks, but c'mon.  We orignally were way to tied to nsider, and we've come along way to become our own thing.  Get rid of sages and ranks, and we'll sever our last major tie to that horrid site.


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## Zero_13 (May 17, 2007)

ac1983fan said:
			
		

> *Get rid of stages.*
> Heck, get rid of the entire rank system.
> *Just make it Member1 (can edit psots), Member2(can start polls) and Member3(can delete post),* plus mods and admins.
> When I first join TBT, I always thought I would make a good sage.
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 This post makes me laugh. Firstly because I don't know what a "Stage" is.

 And seriously, what fun would it be having one power after another  (referring to group 1, group 2 and group 3 getting powers).

Get rid of the entire rank system? 

I don't think thats a good idea, what fun would a forum be without ranks? 

And at the last sentence: ???

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the Sages not being Sages anymore due to getting our rank taken away, I can't say I'm with the Staff, but I'm not with the Sages either. I sort of think that taking away the rank is the best thing (I get the point of the Staff), but I'd feel weird not having my rank anymore, I've wore this green rank for 2 years and taking it away would feel pretty weird.


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## ac1983fan (May 17, 2007)

ZERO_13 said:
			
		

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 The forum would be plenty fun w/o ranks.  I doubt anyone cares about them anymore.
And I accidental said stages because I was thinbking of sages at nsider and I remebered a post by someone there about stage nominations about 3 years ago.


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## Propaganda Man (May 17, 2007)

STORMCOMMANDER said:
			
		

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 I recall Darth doing that to me.


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## Propaganda Man (May 17, 2007)

I haven't read any of the large posts for 2 main reasons. 

1. I don't want too.
2. They aren't about me.

The only thing I got from Sporge's posts is that being staff is not rewarding. It is hard work. Um...okay? Responsibility is what being staff is. One of them is not to complain to others. 

Also, if this whole thing is about what is being said the in the sage boards why even bring this up here? 

Also, Flygon, without the rank you don't have sages. People are being extremists here. Keep the rank but change some things. Maybe add some sages and take some away.


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## Propaganda Man (May 17, 2007)

Gengar said:
			
		

> My turn...
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 I like TBT with arguments. Keeps discussion flowing. 

Being right doesn't have you lose friends. Its how you be right. Are you going to make a proud man do something that he feels degrades him? Or have him do it in a way that he thinks it is good to?

Also, many came here because of ACAC.


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## dragonflamez (May 17, 2007)

MAKE ME SAGE! Muc get power! More Power! 

RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR  *eats TBT*


Who cares? Why do you ask the members about problems that they can't even see?

Do we see the fights in the Sage ans Staff boards? No.
Do our opinions matter in fixing this whole thing? No.

So uh.....how about you DONT rile up the whole site, and just fix it in that little exclusive club called the Sage Board, yeah? If you start a problem in there, don't throw it on us.


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## Sporge27 (May 17, 2007)

dragonflamez said:
			
		

> MAKE ME SAGE! Muc get power! More Power!
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> RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR  *eats TBT*
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 We don't becase a certain banned sage brought it out here, and once a few people see that sort of thing might as well just let it out....  

If you don't care about it you don't have a reason to post here now do you?

Honestly I brought it out here to liste to those that do care, not those who could care less.

oh I for got to answer your first question there about who cares.  I really don't know but if someone did care this is where they could say something.  Some people must care, so I don't see a problem with a public topic, also keeps certain people in check knowing that everyone can see what they write ;P


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## Propaganda Man (May 17, 2007)

> We don't becase a certain banned sage brought it out here, and once a few people see that sort of thing might as well just let it out....
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You sound like a child in that post. You're basically avoiding his post.


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## Sporge27 (May 17, 2007)

Propaganda Man said:
			
		

> > We don't becase a certain banned sage brought it out here, and once a few people see that sort of thing might as well just let it out....
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 why because he doesn't care what this thing is about?

honestly it has been only in the staff and sage board for a while now.  Only fair to let others know.   

opinions of others do matter and why I put it out here.  Sure most opinions don't, but some do, even if it is only a subconscious thing.  

As I said I brought it out here becasue it was already out here, so might as well make it official.  

I don't know what you want out of this prop.....  in that first post there I did pretty much cover what he said, if you can tell me what I am avoiding I would be glad to answer it.


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## Propaganda Man (May 17, 2007)

"So uh.....how about you DONT rile up the whole site, and just fix it in that little exclusive club called the Sage Board, yeah?"

And show me a recent thread that deals with this.


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## Tyler (May 17, 2007)

Propaganda Man said:
			
		

> "So uh.....how about you DONT rile up the whole site, and just fix it in that little exclusive club called the Sage Board, yeah?"
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> And show me a recent thread that deals with this.


 Ask Storm.


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## Sporge27 (May 17, 2007)

The thread in question is the reason JJ got banned ok?
He posted it, it got moved to the staff board, he posted it again, moved and that time JJ was banned.  I am not going to move it out of there because you want proof but other members have seen the thread I mean, a couple including UB and Odd got to post in the one left in the staff board, the other must have been deleted, but I think other people posted in that one.

I just don't want things going around like rumors, I would rather say the facts.


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## UltraByte (May 17, 2007)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

> a couple including UB and Odd got to post in the one left in the staff board


 Wait, what? I can't get access to the Sage board. How in the world can I post in it?


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## Sporge27 (May 17, 2007)

UltraByte said:
			
		

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no that thread JJ made yesturday here in the HQ

titled: YOU ALL NEED TO KNOW THIS


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## UltraByte (May 17, 2007)

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 Oh. Well, whatever. I still think this is a silly desicion.


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## DarthGohan1 (May 17, 2007)

One more time - this is not a punishment for the Sages.  We're not getting rid of the rank because of one or two posts made by JJ... that'd be plain stupid.

We're doing it because we've discussed the matter, and feel that TBT is better off without a Sage prgram than with it.


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## Furry Sparks (May 17, 2007)

DarthGohan1 said:
			
		

> One more time - this is not a punishment for the Sages.  We're not getting rid of the rank because of one or two posts made by JJ... that'd be plain stupid.
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> We're doing it because we've discussed the matter, and feel that TBT is better off without a Sage prgram than with it.


 I don't recall anyone saying that it was a punishment, and JJ was banned after storm told us about it.. (right? I dunno, I never saw the threads >_>)


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## Propaganda Man (May 17, 2007)

I didn't even know about any of this until you posted this Sporge....so good job.

Nonetheless the sage rank should stay. If it goes than I will be going. Not because of the rank but that the staff does things so extreme and hastily.


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## DarthGohan1 (May 17, 2007)

Propaganda Man said:
			
		

> I didn't even know about any of this until you posted this Sporge....so good job.
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> Nonetheless the sage rank should stay. If it goes than I will be going. Not because of the rank but that the staff does things so extreme and hastily.


 Hastily?  We've been discussing this for months...

Sorry, Mr. Omniscient.


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## UltraByte (May 17, 2007)

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 Keep in mind that this was happening in the SAGE BOARD. He can't see it.


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## Tyler (May 17, 2007)

UltraByte said:
			
		

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 Try staff board.  :gyroidwink: The only topic that involved both sages and staff was to decide who would do bells on Tuesdays. We picked Bul. >_>


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## Bulerias (May 17, 2007)

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 I don't even remember that, and I never would have agreed to that because I have guitar lessons on Tuesdays.


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## Tyler (May 17, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 Try page 5. :gyroidwink:


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## Bulerias (May 18, 2007)

OddCrazyMe said:
			
		

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 "Ok... I'll close this one too since it's really a joke if you didn't know gtounge.gif "

Mmmhmm, yeah.


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## Tyler (May 18, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 Yea that's my point. We don't get any threads from the staff board.


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## JJRamone2 (May 18, 2007)

I'm going to save me the trouble of insulting almost each and every one of you for your massively stupid posts and say just about the first fact in this whole damn thread,

BEING A SAGE IS NOT A JOB, STOP TREATING IT LIKE IT IS. IT IS A REWARD FOR BEING A GOOD MEMBER.


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## Zelandonia (May 19, 2007)

Not sure if I want to wade into this mess but: I agree with JJ.

Sage is nothing but a reward. It didn't have any kind of jobs attached to it until some of the current Sages wanted to start projects and such. You took on that responsibility, you didn't do what you said you would, and now you are complaining because you are losing that reward. 

Tough.


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