# Trump is moving into the white house



## Antonio (Jan 20, 2017)

and everything that makes sense is moving out...


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## N a t (Jan 20, 2017)

inb4 "End of the world" comments


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## Antonio (Jan 20, 2017)

Petey Piranha said:


> inb4 "End of the world" comments



It's not the end of the world, it's the end of america.


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## hamster (Jan 20, 2017)

Antonio said:


> It's not the end of the world, it's the end of america.



You're still overreacting.


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## Antonio (Jan 20, 2017)

Ekcriptia said:


> You're still overreacting.



I totally agree, and about 6 months from now my overreacting will come true.


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## LambdaDelta (Jan 20, 2017)

**** this racist, sexist, misogynistic, sociopathic, narcissistic, fascist, dip**** nazi manchild

and I know I missed at least 5 more valid insults in that

- - - Post Merge - - -



Petey Piranha said:


> inb4 "End of the world" comments



yeah well if Trump starts launching nukes at other countries for poking fun at him like the petty little ***** that he is, then that will be a pretty apt way of putting it


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## Antonio (Jan 20, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> **** this racist, sexist, misogynistic, sociopathic, narcissistic, fascist, dip**** nazi manchild
> 
> and I know I missed at least 5 more valid insults in that
> 
> ...



That language though, do you need a hug?


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## Corrie (Jan 20, 2017)

I still think Russia helped him win. There is no way America is that stupid. 

If America is involved, the whole world will eventually be involved too. Let's just hope congress shuts down his retardation before it's too late. 

RIP my final days on Earth.


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## Antonio (Jan 20, 2017)

Corrie said:


> I still think Russia helped him win. There is no way America is that stupid.
> 
> If America is involved, the whole world will eventually be involved too. Let's just hope congress shuts down his retardation before it's too late.
> 
> RIP my final days on Earth.



How do we spend these final days? United as a country or separated as a country?


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## LambdaDelta (Jan 20, 2017)

Antonio said:


> That language though, do you need a hug?



you say that like 95% of that post was swears


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## Antonio (Jan 20, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> you say that like 95% of that post was swears



I said it like you need a hug....i can sense the stress....


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## Waluigi (Jan 20, 2017)

You people are overreacting. Yes, trump will be one of the worst presidents in history, but no, he's not going to destroy the world. The environment? For a bit, but we can help it recover.

Trump won't get re elected anyway unless the democrats are stupid and have a really bad candidate 2020


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## Antonio (Jan 20, 2017)

Waluigi said:


> You people are overreacting. Yes, trump will be one of the worst presidents in history, but no, he's not going to destroy the world. The environment? For a bit, but we can help it recover.
> 
> Trump won't get re elected anyway unless the democrats are stupid and have a really bad candidate 2020



True which would leave room for Kanye West in 2020.


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## Corrie (Jan 20, 2017)

Waluigi said:


> You people are overreacting. Yes, trump will be one of the worst presidents in history, but no, he's not going to destroy the world. The environment? For a bit, but we can help it recover.
> 
> Trump won't get re elected anyway unless the democrats are stupid and have a really bad candidate 2020



Or Russia helps him stay in.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Antonio said:


> How do we spend these final days? United as a country or separated as a country?



Separated. The country seems to be splitting apart from trump fans and haters. XP


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## LambdaDelta (Jan 20, 2017)

Antonio said:


> I said it like you need a hug....i can sense the stress....



ah, can be hard to tell sometimes

but I'm fine. if nothing else, this whole ****show has made me far better at keeping up with things, while also distancing myself from them when needed.

besides, it's not worth channeling all this into insulting or getting constantly mad about some baby who I hate more than any single person in existence that doesn't give a **** about what I have to say. so I rarely give him any of my time in the first place. better to try and help those that will be negatively affected by this authoritarian power grasp after all


but anyways, they should just be playing this on full blast endless looop


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## Bowie (Jan 20, 2017)

Thank you for being one of the only people I've felt connected to in politics, Obama, and I'm not even American. Bernie should have won.


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## Alolan_Apples (Jan 20, 2017)

I did like the inaugural address, but he did say some things that are better off if not said in the address at all. But I hope he keeps his promises.


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## moonford (Jan 20, 2017)

Apple2012 said:


> I did like the inaugural address, but he did say some things that are better off if not said in the address at all. But I hope he keeps his promises.



He won't. (I bet you)


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## Corrie (Jan 20, 2017)

I just read Justin Trudeau's post on Facebook, congratulating trump into the White House. Poor guy probably cried while typing it lmao. I sure cringed from reading it. It's like a nightmare you hope you can wake up from but then you discover that it is not a nightmare.


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## Soupery (Jan 20, 2017)

Yup good luck with fixing that 4 years from now America


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## Cheren (Jan 20, 2017)

Well, I guess we should start calling it The Orange House.


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## Antonio (Jan 20, 2017)

Cheren said:


> Well, I guess we should start calling it The Orange House.



Fake, orange house...


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## Lululand (Jan 20, 2017)

Ekcriptia said:


> You're still overreacting.



Is he?
Now I don't really think he's going to do as much damage as many people fear. But that doesn't mean this isn't a massive defeat for civilisation. 

It's not that he's literally going to make people's lives worse so much that he sets a really ****ty example in terms of moral attitude. The fact that his racist, sexist, ignorant ass made it into the white house is sending the message that it's possible to get away with the kind of uncivilised crap he pulled, and to even be rewarded for it.

This, more than anything else, is the problem.


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## Artist (Jan 20, 2017)

what kind of discussion were u trying to create w this thread jw


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## cIementine (Jan 20, 2017)

i'm going to miss obama. i'm not even american but i still hear about him more than my own prime minister. he had such good humour and the obamas were such a cool family. 
watching trump become president seemed a little dystopian to me to say the least, but i'm hoping he won't do most of the stuff he says he will or be as bad as i think he will. had a nap afterwards and thought i'd dreamt it and there his face was right on the screen with 'president trump' on it lmao
on the bright side, it was nice of them to give the obamas a gift.


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## tumut (Jan 20, 2017)

At least he's not Ted Cruz


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## Red Cat (Jan 20, 2017)

Only time will tell how good or bad Trump ends up being. I usually hope for the best, but prepare for the worst, so I guess from that perspective, it isn't that much different having Trump up there than Clinton other than that I think the worst has a higher chance of happening under Trump. I don't see Trump's election as defeat for democracy but rather a wake-up call for people that good leaders don't just get delivered on a silver platter; people have to put in the effort to make sure that good people like Obama get elected and bad people like Trump don't. Other than nukes flying, anything Trump does can be undone, but it won't magically happen unless people get out in the real world and organize to slow down Trump and replace him with a better president.


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## Cory (Jan 20, 2017)

Dixx said:


> At least he's not Ted Cruz



100% true
ted cruz is actually a lunatic


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## Alolan_Apples (Jan 20, 2017)

Whiteflamingo said:


> He won't. (I bet you)



Well I'm not a fan of Trump, I'm actually not. I'm only glad because Obama is out and the Republican Party dominated the wins in the election, even barely. Not just the ACA (I'm no longer calling it Obamacare) is gonna get repealed if the Republicans win, but I want them to take care of the increasing problem with political correctness.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Dixx said:


> At least he's not Ted Cruz



What don't you like about him?


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## Corrie (Jan 20, 2017)

Lululand said:


> Is he?
> Now I don't really think he's going to do as much damage as many people fear. But that doesn't mean this isn't a massive defeat for civilisation.
> 
> It's not that he's literally going to make people's lives worse so much that he sets a really ****ty example in terms of moral attitude. The fact that his racist, sexist, ignorant ass made it into the white house is sending the message that it's possible to get away with the kind of uncivilised crap he pulled, and to even be rewarded for it.
> ...



Amen. I'm not even American and I feel offended that he made it as the freaking president of the USA. By that logic, any rich turd could apply and win. It's embarrassing.


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## Amy-chan (Jan 20, 2017)

I can't watch TV anymore because where I live, people thought it was a good idea to make Trump meme commercials.


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## shunishu (Jan 20, 2017)

they already removed all mention of lgbtq from government websites.  :<
along with climate change and other hot topics


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## Bowie (Jan 20, 2017)

People will change the world, not politicians. Helps if you have someone who is open to what the public want and relate to them, but nevertheless people have always had the power. Push hard enough and you can do anything for your country. Change requires individuals actually getting up and out and doing things.


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## SensaiGallade (Jan 20, 2017)

rip america


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## Alolan_Apples (Jan 20, 2017)

shunishu said:


> they already removed all mention of lgbtq from government websites.  :<
> along with climate change and other hot topics



Wow!

What are the other hot topics removed?


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## Corrie (Jan 20, 2017)

shunishu said:


> they already removed all mention of lgbtq from government websites.  :<
> along with climate change and other hot topics



Ugh, seriously? 

I officially hate republicans. No more beating around the bush about it.


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## 3skulls (Jan 20, 2017)

Love him or hate him He actually made a good speech today at the inauguration. But actions speaks louder than words of course.


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## Cory (Jan 20, 2017)

Corrie said:


> Ugh, seriously?
> 
> I officially hate republicans. No more beating around the bush about it.



you and Hillary would get along


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## Antonio (Jan 20, 2017)

shunishu said:


> they already removed all mention of lgbtq from government websites.  :<
> along with climate change and other hot topics



Omg, already? This country is doom..


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## deSPIRIA (Jan 20, 2017)

i aint too fond of trump but im laughing so hard


i dislike both of em


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## Alolan_Apples (Jan 20, 2017)

Cory said:


> you and Hillary would get along



Please be respectful. Trump becoming president does not give you an excuse to be rude to others.

Anyway, what else besides global warming and lgbt references got nixed from government sites?


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## shunishu (Jan 20, 2017)

Apple2012 said:


> Anyway, what else besides global warming and lgbt references got nixed from government sites?



civil rights and healthcare, nothing big..


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## deSPIRIA (Jan 20, 2017)

Apple2012 said:


> Please be respectful. Trump becoming president does not give you an excuse to be rude to others.



THANK YOU.
and hillary not becoming president does not give you an excuse to be rude to trump supporters. everyone has their own views. its so childish and sad to see people whine about others with different viewpoints. just feel comfortable with who you supported and let it stick that way.
but dont get me wrong - debating is great. whining isnt.


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## Antonio (Jan 20, 2017)

Antonio said:


> Omg, already? This country is doom..





shunishu said:


> civil rights and healthcare, nothing big..



That sarcasm is perfect...


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## Alolan_Apples (Jan 20, 2017)

shunishu said:


> civil rights and healthcare, nothing big..



They're still big issues.


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## Red Cat (Jan 20, 2017)

Ashvenn said:


> i aint too fond of trump but im laughing so hard
> View attachment 192708
> i dislike both of em



As much as I detest Trump, the fact that the Clintons attended Trump's inauguration after all of the stuff Trump said about them proves that the Clintons really can be bought by anyone. Hope you two enjoy the $$$, thanks for screwing the country with Hillary's ****ty ass run for president.


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## Waluigi (Jan 20, 2017)

Remember though, people can always make changes in this world, no matter what politician tells you. We are the leaders after all.

Anyway, looking forward to 2020. A UK and US election in one year? It's gonna be dissapointing when the tories win again, but i'm curious as to whats gonna happen in the US.


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## Alolan_Apples (Jan 20, 2017)

Ashvenn said:


> THANK YOU.
> and hillary not becoming president does not give you an excuse to be rude to trump supporters. everyone has their own views. its so childish and sad to see people whine about others with different viewpoints. just feel comfortable with who you supported and let it stick that way.
> but dont get me wrong - debating is great. whining isnt.



Even when I'm very right-winged, I still don't like conservatives that behave exactly like what made me hate left-wingers in general (intolerant, opinion wars, political discrimination, political correctness, and insults). Clearly, conservatives can be just as bad as liberals when it comes to that, yet I see it more often from liberals. Not on this site, but in general. This is what's causing America to be divided, and it's continue to get divided even more if we keep it up. Even Trump was concerned by the division. So whether you agree with me or not, it's never the right thing to criticize others for having different opinions.


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## Corrie (Jan 20, 2017)

Cory said:


> you and Hillary would get along



Definitely not, as I think she sucks too.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Apple2012 said:


> Even when I'm very right-winged, I still don't like conservatives that behave exactly like what made me hate left-wingers in general (intolerant, opinion wars, political discrimination, political correctness, and insults). Clearly, conservatives can be just as bad as liberals when it comes to that, yet I see it more often from liberals. Not on this site, but in general. This is what's causing America to be divided, and it's continue to get divided even more if we keep it up. Even Trump was concerned by the division. So whether you agree with me or not, it's never the right thing to criticize others for having different opinions.



You are so very right. Honestly, in my opinion, every political person sucks in one way or another. Nobody is flawlessly perfect. It's more about choosing who sucks less.


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## Bowie (Jan 20, 2017)

Feel the Bern.


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## Waluigi (Jan 20, 2017)

Bowie said:


> Feel the Bern.



One day, even if it takes 4 years, hopefully one day.


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## lostineverfreeforest (Jan 20, 2017)

Red Cat said:


> As much as I detest Trump, the fact that the Clintons attended Trump's inauguration after all of the stuff Trump said about them proves that the Clintons really can be bought by anyone. Hope you two enjoy the $$$, thanks for screwing the country with Hillary's ****ty ass run for president.



Yeah I can't believe the DNC chose such a weak candidate. RIP Bernie, thrown under a bus.


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## Alolan_Apples (Jan 20, 2017)

Bowie said:


> Feel the Bern.



I could only feel ice and snow, nothing warm here.

The Republicans may be the red party, but it's more like red ice to me.


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## moonford (Jan 20, 2017)

The UK is doing great after brexit according to Trump, how could he possibly know that? He knows nothing! The brexit has been triggered in January which has been 20 days not 5 months or even a year(s). 

I really hope this man does well as President, I hate him with all my heart, his petty views and the fact that he's a Republican is the orange icing on the cake, nothing personal Republicans I just hate everything that you stand for.


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## Hopeless Opus (Jan 20, 2017)

i wish bernie was president but here we are


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## nintendofan85 (Jan 20, 2017)

*sigh*
I have no idea what these next four years will be like... I just hope they don't become *eight*.


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## Envy (Jan 20, 2017)

How dreadful. I heard that the White House pages for LGBT rights, disabled people, civil rights, climate change, and healthcare all got removed today. The dark ages are upon us.


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## nintendofan85 (Jan 20, 2017)

Red Cat said:


> As much as I detest Trump, the fact that the Clintons attended Trump's inauguration after all of the stuff Trump said about them proves that the Clintons really can be bought by anyone. Hope you two enjoy the $$$, thanks for screwing the country with Hillary's ****ty ass run for president.



The thing is, as a former president, you're technically obligated to visit the new president's inauguration. In fact, the Clintons and Bushes were originally silent about attending-only Jimmy Carter had planned a visit.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Envy said:


> How dreadful. I heard that the White House pages for LGBT rights, disabled people, civil rights, climate change, and healthcare all got removed today. The dark ages are upon us.



Yep, they were.


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## Blueskyy (Jan 20, 2017)

I also heard Trump is going to summon demonic spirits from teh underworld and command them to drag immigrants away before teh wallz is built! I also heard his hair is made in China! 
...
but really I'm waiting to see if actions prevail over words and if greatness will truly follow before I start making end of the world ahhh the sky is falling type of comments.


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## Glake (Jan 20, 2017)

Trump is pretty dumb, but I'm not about to let the inauguration of one man ruin my life. 

Definitely not the end of the world, but it's definitely the end of a stagnant political stage we've been in for awhile. A lot of things are going to change for the better in the long run imo. This election alone has finally shifted the minds of many shiftless individuals.


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## vel (Jan 20, 2017)

Glake said:


> Trump is pretty dumb, but I'm not about to let the inauguration of one man ruin my life.



I really like this quote. I think many people are overreacting; he may be a bad president, and he may be making terrible choices, but it isn't the end of the world. I think we, as Americans, give up relatively easily. I have seen, not everyone, but a lot of people just give up when Trump was chosen president or when he was inaugurated. Like this isn't the end, it's just a chance for a new beginning. It may be a bad beginning, but if we keep trying it'll be better. I know this is sappy, but I just don't like the mindset many Americans have taken on.


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## Blueskyy (Jan 20, 2017)

vel said:


> I really like this quote. I think many people are overreacting; he may be a bad president, and he may be making terrible choices, but it isn't the end of the world. I think we, as Americans, give up relatively easily. I have seen, not everyone, but a lot of people just give up when Trump was chosen president or when he was inaugurated. Like this isn't the end, it's just a chance for a new beginning. It may be a bad beginning, but if we keep trying it'll be better. I know this is sappy, but I just don't like the mindset many Americans have taken on.



I agree.  I don't agree with everything liberals stand for, but same with Republicans....so I'm just ready for something new.


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## Paperboy012305 (Jan 20, 2017)

Wait. So Trump is gonna do worse than Obama and Hillary? Oh so help me!


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## Haskell (Jan 20, 2017)

Trump. 

Period. Point. Blank.

Those who support him. Don't go whole-heartedly on his train.

Those who oppose him. Give him a chance.


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## Alolan_Apples (Jan 20, 2017)

Paperboy012305 said:


> Wait. So Trump is gonna do worse than Obama and Hillary? Oh so help me!



I doubt it will happen. The left wing is very pessimistic about it, just like how the right wing was about Obama. The Republicans even felt like it was the end of the world when Obama won. And it wasn't the end, even for them. What you don't want is a president that does a worse job than Hoover. That is when you should be concerned. Not to mention, a lot of the things that happen that we don't like isn't even the president's fault. Even if Buchanan didn't allow the states to secede, it was their fault for even considering secession, not Buchanan's.

No, Hoover didn't start the depression. That was bound to happen anyway. What Hoover did wrong was that he did not care about America when the depression began.


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## nintendofan85 (Jan 20, 2017)

Even though I opposed him in the election, I guess I'll just see what happens.


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## Bowie (Jan 20, 2017)

Most of the people who decided not to vote for him decided not to vote for him because of all the things he has said and/or done. You wouldn't give anybody a chance at being president if you thought that they were completely irresponsible and, for some, horrible. Giving him a chance is kind of out of the question. Just keep moaning like hell until somebody listens to you, because that's the only way you can live under an administration like the one the American people have to now.

A lot of Trump supporters treat the situation like it's very confusing. It's not. It's in black and white what Trump has said he's gonna do, and we know all the people he's bringing into power. Rather than give him a chance, give _yourself_ a chance.


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## Haskell (Jan 20, 2017)

I wouldn't moan, grown and throw temper tantrums in the streets if Hillary, a corrupt irresponsible women, got elected. I wouldn't take her supporters, drag them out of their cars and beat the snot out of them.

Give Trump a chance.


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## Envy (Jan 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Those who oppose him. Give him a chance.



I can not and will not give him a chance.

Starting with his very demeanor, what he ran on, what he said, etc. Then finally who he has appointed into the cabinet positions. If there was ever a time to "give him a chance", it has already passed. He has already made it clear what he stands for and what he wants to do.

The answer is clear, he wants to make life for people like me (alongside other minorities) hell. Even down to my future career, education. How much damage he can do is unclear, but it does not look too hopeful with Republicans controlling everything.

And for the record, all alone, the way he has talked (and treated) of women and disabled people automatically disqualifies him from having my respect at all.


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## pinkcotton (Jan 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Give Trump a chance.


Yes! Seriously, we were watching the inauguration in class, everyone was saying this like "Boo!" or "Nooo!" I said "Oh my God, you guys, he hasn't even done anything! Chill."


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## Envy (Jan 20, 2017)

pinkcotton said:


> Yes! Seriously, we were watching the inauguration in class, everyone was saying this like "Boo!" or "Nooo!" I said "Oh my God, you guys, he hasn't even done anything! Chill."



He has announced the individuals for his cabinet positions. He has very much done stuff, because those choices are extremely dangerous.


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## Haskell (Jan 20, 2017)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...53018f9a0ec_story.html?utm_term=.f00678b07fe2
Seriously? He gives women the same opportunities as men. Give me a break.


Imagine... you're a corrupt individual who has lied to the American public and has American blood on her hands. What would you do to get elected? Anything.


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## Cai-crossing (Jan 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> I wouldn't moan, grown and throw temper tantrums in the streets if Hillary, a corrupt irresponsible women, got elected. I wouldn't take her supporters, drag them out of their cars and beat the snot out of them.
> 
> Give Trump a chance.



*



Supporters like you give me quite a bit more comfort.  Honestly I've been terrified to look into anything in more detail.  I tried to stay up-to-date on the issues through the entire election but found that any time I kept digging, information would quickly start to contradict itself.  It's hard to know fact from blown-up media stories sometimes.  I wish everyone would stop shoving fear tactics down our throats.  Trump horrifies me right now, but so does everything- so... y'know... He's a human being and some of his speeches do indicate he doesn't want to hurt anyone... I'm still scared-- But I'm also hopeful.  

Thanks for being level-headed and also providing sources for your opinions.  It's more than I've seen out of most people on either side of the political spectrum.  




​*


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## Corrie (Jan 20, 2017)

Envy said:


> I can not and will not give him a chance.
> 
> Starting with his very demeanor, what he ran on, what he said, etc. Then finally who he has appointed into the cabinet positions. If there was ever a time to "give him a chance", it has already passed. He has already made it clear what he stands for and what he wants to do.
> 
> ...



You're 100% correct. I don't like him, not because he is a republican but instead because he only gives a **** about old white rich men like himself. Literally every other group of people don't mean **** to him and that is NOT how a president should be. I seriously don't understand how a woman could like him, how a black person could like him, how an LGBT person could like him. He literally hates all that isn't what he is.


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## Haskell (Jan 20, 2017)

"I will not give him a chance."

Being a bit hypocritical? Most people that say that say that want change... but won't wait and see what change Trump brings... 

That's ignorant to the core as well. If Hillary got elected, I would give her a chance. I wouldn't vote for her. Don't get me wrong but the American people would have VOTED for her so I would have been patriotic and loyal and have given her a chance before I did anything.


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## pinkcotton (Jan 20, 2017)

Envy said:


> He has announced the individuals for his cabinet positions. He has very much done stuff, because those choices are extremely dangerous.



He's become President just today. He hasn't affected us as a country in any way, I'm not saying that he won't, I'm saying be hasn't.


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## Haskell (Jan 20, 2017)

Corrie said:


> You're 100% correct. I don't like him, not because he is a republican but instead because he only gives a **** about old white rich men like himself. Literally every other group of people don't mean **** to him and that is NOT how a president should be. I seriously don't understand how a woman could like him, how a black person could like him, how an LGBT person could like him. He literally hates all that isn't what he is.



I'm gay myself. I have no problem with Trump. Pence is questionable, sketchy. DeVos is right out of the question. I dislike her.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html?_r=1


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## Alolan_Apples (Jan 20, 2017)

I got some news. Trump has just signed an executive order to throw out the individual mandate of the ACA. It's already crashing down.


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## Haskell (Jan 20, 2017)

pinkcotton said:


> He's become President just today. He hasn't affected us as a country in any way, I'm not saying that he won't, I'm saying be hasn't.



I see where you're coming from but he has affected the country. Negatively or positively, that's for the AMERICAN PEOPLE to DECIDE. ^_^


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## pinkcotton (Jan 20, 2017)

Apple2012 said:


> I got some news. Trump has just signed an executive order to throw out the individual mandate of the ACA. It's already crashing down.



Sources?


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## Envy (Jan 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> "I will not give him a chance."
> 
> Being a bit hypocritical? Most people that say that say that want change... but won't wait and see what change Trump brings...



Did you even read the rest of my post? The kind of "change" that Trump wants to bring and has appointed cabinet members to make is not the kind of change I want. I'm allowed to have an opinion over what I think needs and to be changed and how.


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## shunishu (Jan 20, 2017)

nintendofan85 said:


> Even though I opposed him in the election, I guess I'll just see what happens.



we've been seeing "what happens" (it's happening) for the past few months already (or the past 2 years tbh), in everything he said, did, announced and everyone he appointed and everything that was set into motion before he was even sworn in, like drastic cuts (erasing) to (women's) healthcare & cutting national arts funding etc etc list goes on..
there's no waiting or doubt, it's all in the open, they aren't waiting either. we now need to pay attention, be vocal and do damage control and not let them get away with. in the end they work for the people (even tho they clearly don't) and have to answer to them.


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## Haskell (Jan 20, 2017)

Apple2012 said:


> I got some news. Trump has just signed an executive order to throw out the individual mandate of the ACA. It's already crashing down.



Good. 1st day and he's already on top of things. He doesn't procrastinate. 

- - - Post Merge - - -



Envy said:


> Did you even read the rest of my post? The kind of "change" that Trump wants to bring and has appointed cabinet members to make is not the kind of change I want. I'm allowed to have an opinion over what I think needs and to be changed and how.



I did read it but change is change. One cannot define good change based on her or his premature opinions.

- - - Post Merge - - -



little_caicai said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't get me wrong. I've been ignorant, intolerant, and edgy on this site before. I've been attempting to "transform". Can I call it, "transform"?


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## shunishu (Jan 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> I'm gay myself. I have no problem with Trump. Pence is questionable, sketchy. DeVos is right out of the question. I dislike her.
> https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html?_r=1


newsflash they're all in the same team. 
and pence isn't questionable he's a threat to lgbt.
(sry I'm wound up)


----------



## Alolan_Apples (Jan 20, 2017)

pinkcotton said:


> Sources?



It appeared as a notification on both my iPhone and iPad. The whole thing isn't out yet, but here's what just happned:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...67fe3285cbc_story.html?utm_term=.38bbc4bedd28


----------



## Envy (Jan 20, 2017)

shunishu said:


> we've been seeing "what happens" (it's happening) for the past few months already (or the past 2 years tbh), in everything he said, did, announced and everyone he appointed and everything that was set into motion before he was even sworn in, like drastic cuts (erasing) to (women's) healthcare & cutting national arts funding etc etc list goes on..
> there's no waiting or doubt, it's all in the open, they aren't waiting either. we now need to pay attention, be vocal and do damage control and not let them get away with. in the end they work for the people (even tho they clearly don't) and have to answer to them.



But we have to give him a chance because somehow magically him, his cabinet, and a Republican controlled House and Senate will magically go against their clearly stated goals now that they have all of the power and make good change!

...Or that's what I'm being told.


----------



## shunishu (Jan 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Good. 1st day and he's already on top of things. He doesn't procrastinate.



he's actually taking his first 2 days off I think, his team is on top of it tho.


----------



## Alolan_Apples (Jan 20, 2017)

To give Trump a chance doesn't mean you have to like him, the fact that he's president, or his job as a president. It means you shouldn't riot or protest his actions, reject him as president, or wish bad things to happen to him.


----------



## Corrie (Jan 20, 2017)

Apple2012 said:


> To give Trump a chance doesn't mean you have to like him, the fact that he's president, or his job as a president. It means you shouldn't riot or protest his actions, reject him as president, or wish bad things to happen to him.



That said, we are allowed to gently protest (not all violent and ****). Otherwise we'll turn into whatever Russia, North Korea and The Philippines are where the government literally are treating its citizens like slaves and kidnapped victims. 

I want trump to do good but so far, it isn't looking good.


----------



## Haskell (Jan 20, 2017)

shunishu said:


> newsflash they're all in the same team.
> and pence isn't questionable he's a threat to lgbt.
> (sry I'm wound up)



Lol. Pence is questionable... coming from a gay man. I'd actually wouldn't mind meeting Pence in a civilized manner.

- - - Post Merge - - -

You have to find a middle ground in many things. LGBTQ being one of them. 

Hate and intolerance will never change.

- - - Post Merge - - -



shunishu said:


> he's actually taking his first 2 days off I think, his team is on top of it tho.



Sources?


----------



## shunishu (Jan 20, 2017)

also, when I hear "trump hasn't done any damage yet".. then why is half the world anxiety ridden, depressed and scared for their livelyhood since november? this won't just affect the US.
people need to pay more attention.

anyway good night


----------



## Haskell (Jan 20, 2017)

shunishu said:


> also, when I hear "trump hasn't done any damage yet".. then why is half the world anxiety ridden, depressed and scared for their livelyhood since november? this won't just affect the US.
> people need to pay more attention.
> 
> anyway good night



That's a hyperbole to say half of the world is in anxiety over November 8th. Tbh.

Lol. He got in office... the American people voted for him. He won states that Obama won. He won states that republicans haven't won in yeeeaaarrrsss. He got elected by the American people.


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## Cory (Jan 20, 2017)

shunishu said:


> also, when I hear "trump hasn't done any damage yet".. then why is half the world anxiety ridden, depressed and scared for their livelyhood since november? this won't just affect the US.
> people need to pay more attention.
> 
> anyway good night



because political correctness
we are used to it 
trump doesnt have it
also people are scared that hes not qualified


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## DJStarstryker (Jan 20, 2017)

I saw how the National Park Service got told they can't use Twitter until told otherwise because they retweeted that tweet about how a lot less people showed up at Trump's inauguration vs Obama's in 2009. I really hope this doesn't mean NPS is on Trump's bad side. That man seems like he can really hold a grudge. I love going to the National Parks, and they already don't exactly have a gigantic budget as it is. I hope Trump doesn't do something like convince Congress to slash it. :/

I'm willing to give the man a chance, even though I don't like him, but I still feel really ambivalent about this whole thing.


----------



## Blueskyy (Jan 20, 2017)

To be fair I'm pretty neutral on both candidates and I was anxiety ridden over Hillary myself. Watching and listening to her as Trey Gowdy questioned her just made me realize I wouldn't feel safe under her leadership either.  Her body language just told a lot to me, and answers didnt make sense. But during those debates she put on an act almost as well as she put on her pantsuit. But that's just me. Not saying Trump is perfect at all. I mean...his hair is probably the most destructive part of him. Well and his love for Twitter. Yikes.


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## Haskell (Jan 20, 2017)

shunishu said:


> also, when I hear "trump hasn't done any damage yet".. then why is half the world anxiety ridden, depressed and scared for their livelyhood since november? this won't just affect the US.
> people need to pay more attention.
> 
> anyway good night



Good night, by the way! 

- - - Post Merge - - -



DJStarstryker said:


> I saw how the National Park Service got told they can't use Twitter until told otherwise because they retweeted that tweet about how a lot less people showed up at Trump's inauguration vs Obama's in 2009. I really hope this doesn't mean NPS is on Trump's bad side. That man seems like he can really hold a grudge. I love going to the National Parks, and they already don't exactly have a gigantic budget as it is. I hope Trump doesn't do something like convince Congress to slash it. :/
> 
> I'm willing to give the man a chance, even though I don't like him, but I still feel really ambivalent about this whole thing.




Sources?

- - - Post Merge - - -



DJStarstryker said:


> tweet about how a lot less people showed up at Trump's inauguration vs Obama's in 2009.



That's because Obama was the first African-American president.


----------



## DJStarstryker (Jan 20, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Sources?



I saw it on Gizmodo. I haven't seen any major news sources talk about it yet.

The major news sources (both left and right) were talking about the NPS re-tweet earlier today though. So I wouldn't be surprised if it filters down to other places later.


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## Haskell (Jan 20, 2017)

AndyP08 said:


> Not saying Trump is perfect at all. I mean...his hair is probably the most destructive part of him. Yikes.



That's because the man is seventy years old. He's lucky to have hair at all. lol



- - - Post Merge - - -



DJStarstryker said:


> I saw it on Gizmodo. I haven't seen any major news sources talk about it yet.
> 
> The major news sources (both left and right) were talking about the NPS re-tweet earlier today though. So I wouldn't be surprised if it filters down to other places later.



Why were they retweeting about politics anyways? Tbh.

- - - Post Merge - - -

And there's similar stories when the labor department under Barack's Obama's administration showed the difference of unemployment in 2008 with 2016.

- - - Post Merge - - -



shunishu said:


> then why is half the world anxiety ridden, depressed and scared for their livelyhood since november?



Most Polish people stand behind Trump. I met a Polish man through ACNL and he says everyone he knows stands behind Trump. I've seen Polish people throughout various sites state they support Trump.

Just adding fuel to the fire. ^_^


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## p e p p e r (Jan 21, 2017)

Trump will be a 100x better than Obama, I'm so glad he's gone, Obama is a cool & smart man, but what a horrible president. Regardless of what you think of Trump, you should hope that he does well because that means the U.S. will do well.


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## Stepheroo (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Don't get me wrong. I've been ignorant, intolerant, and edgy on this site before. I've been attempting to "transform". Can I call it, "transform"?



I've noticed the change and I feel like you come across more educated when you're being level-headed like this and it makes people want to or at least feel more compelled to listen to you. +1 



DJStarstryker said:


> That man seems like he can really hold a grudge.



This is one of my worries as well. I'm worried how it'll play out if he is, indeed, that type of person.



p e p p e r said:


> Regardless of what you think of Trump, *you should hope that he does well because that means the U.S. will do well.*



This! Thisthisthisthis! I wasn't a Trump supporter, wasn't even a Hillary supporter. This election almost tore my family apart due to differences in views, but I am still willing to give this man a CHANCE. To give him a CHANCE to right the wrongs of things he has said, a CHANCE to fulfill his roles and duties with the American people in mind. I don't have to like him as a person, heck, I don't even have to respect him and neither do you. But I choose to see him as what he is, America's president and it's about time people stopped being delusional and did the same. Because that's what he is.

If you want your government to fail, you want your country to fail. I agree with what was stated before, that "Americans give up too easily" because it's so true and how many people are acting lately is a perfect indicator of that. Every post, comment, etc. that says "America is doomed" or "r.i.p America" is giving up. It doesn't change anyone's minds, it only shows that you're not willing to do anything about your situation or even have faith in the idea that we, as a country, will bounce back if things DO turn to ****. We've done it before and, while I hope that we won't have to again, I know we will if it comes down to it.


----------



## Blueskyy (Jan 21, 2017)

On a related side note, if Lauren Southern was old enough to run for president this year, I'd be happy to have our first woman president.


----------



## Tao (Jan 21, 2017)

shunishu said:


> also, when I hear "trump hasn't done any damage yet".. then why is half the world anxiety ridden, depressed and scared for their livelyhood since november? this won't just affect the US.
> people need to pay more attention.
> 
> anyway good night



Half the world? I'm gonna take a wild guess and say those figures are inaccurate. Feel free to prove me wrong.


Regardless, it's not exactly like anything is going to change because "he makes me sad". He's president now, gotta live with that for 4 years, better get used to it. Rather than throwing around what have essentially been degraded to buzzwords these days like 'depression' and 'anxiety' (not directed at those who *actually* suffer from those), maybe people should learn how to deal with information and events that don't fit into their personal wants and/or beliefs a little better. Life doesn't go your way sometimes, and despite what you learn in a modern university campus, stamping your feet and screaming "NO I DON'T WANT TO!" won't always make things go your way.


Not saying he's a going to be a great president, but, yano, maybe hope for the best and wait for him to screw up rather than sitting there feeling sorry for yourself as though he already has. 



Honestly, it sounds more like people would rather him do everything wrong just so they can claim a hollow victory with an "I told you so!" at the end. "He's screwed everything up just like I said he would, yay! Go me!"...Yea, totally something you want to be correct about, right? I imagine there would actually be outrage and riots if he surprises us all and does a half decent job.




Raskell said:


> That's because the man is seventy years old. He's lucky to have hair at all. lol




I would rather be bald at 70 than have that hair.


----------



## Red Cat (Jan 21, 2017)

Stepheroo said:


> This! Thisthisthisthis! I wasn't a Trump supporter, wasn't even a Hillary supporter. This election almost tore my family apart due to differences in views, but I am still willing to give this man a CHANCE. To give him a CHANCE to right the wrongs of things he has said, a CHANCE to fulfill his roles and duties with the American people in mind. I don't have to like him as a person, heck, I don't even have to respect him and neither do you. But I choose to see him as what he is, America's president and it's about time people stopped being delusional and did the same. Because that's what he is.
> 
> If you want your government to fail, you want your country to fail. I agree with what was stated before, that "Americans give up too easily" because it's so true and how many people are acting lately is a perfect indicator of that. Every post, comment, etc. that says "America is doomed" or "r.i.p America" is giving up. It doesn't change anyone's minds, it only shows that you're not willing to do anything about your situation or even have faith in the idea that we, as a country, will bounce back if things DO turn to ****. We've done it before and, while I hope that we won't have to again, I know we will if it comes down to it.



We really don't have a choice but to give Trump a chance. He is the president and controls the military and the rest of the executive branch, and there is not much anyone can do to change that. That being said, no one is required to give him the benefit of the doubt. As the president, it is incumbent on him to earn people's trust and not just demand it because he's president. That's not how it works in a democracy. If people (like me) want to have their hearts set on making sure that Trump's 4 years don't become 8 right from day 1, that is their right. I'm not rooting against Trump or America and I don't own a crystal ball, but history suggests that these kinds of experiments do not end well. So I'd rather be prepared for Trump to fail than wait for him to fail and then run around like a chicken with its head cut off. There is nothing wrong about being proactive.

I agree with you that the "America is doomed" stuff is dumb, mostly because it sets the bar for Trump too low. I don't want people to think of keeping America in one piece as Trump exceeding expectations. Trump has made all these big promises and if he can't deliver, then people should hold his feet to the fire when his "job performance review" comes up in 4 years.


----------



## Stepheroo (Jan 21, 2017)

Red Cat said:


> We really don't have a choice but to give Trump a chance. He is the president and controls the military and the rest of the executive branch, and there is not much anyone can do to change that. That being said, no one is required to give him the benefit of the doubt. As the president, it is incumbent on him to earn people's trust and not just demand it because he's president. That's not how it works in a democracy. If people (like me) want to have their hearts set on making sure that Trump's 4 years don't become 8 right from day 1, that is their right. I'm not rooting against Trump or America and I don't own a crystal ball, but history suggests that these kinds of experiments do not end well. So I'd rather be prepared for Trump to fail than wait for him to fail and then run around like a chicken with its head cut off. There is nothing wrong about being proactive.
> 
> I agree with you that the "America is doomed" stuff is dumb, mostly because it sets the bar for Trump too low. I don't want people to think of keeping America in one piece as Trump exceeding expectations. Trump has made all these big promises and if he can't deliver, then people should hold his feet to the fire when his "job performance review" comes up in 4 years.



My point is that some of the comments I'm seeing are like people want him to do even WORSE, they want him to fail even harder than he has with some of the stuff he has said and that's not in the country's best interests to want that, it only makes that person look hateful.

I never stated I wanted his 4 years to turn into 8, because I don't (at all), nor am I telling people to suck it up and suddenly be all gung-ho about his presidency, because I'm certainly not. But like I said, lots of people are being just being downright hateful and not what I would call proactive. And yes, if he isn't able to do what he promises and doesn't end up doing a good enough job for this country then he should be chewed out and held accountable which is what I would expect to happen to any president.

Sorry if some of this is incoherent, I am on mobile right now and fat fingers + pain meds control my whole being atm.


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## LinkToTheWorld (Jan 21, 2017)

Stepheroo said:


> My point is that some of the comments I'm seeing are like people want him to do even WORSE, they want him to fail even harder than he has with some of the stuff he has said and that's not in the country's best interests to want that, it only makes that person look hateful.
> 
> I never stated I wanted his 4 years to turn into 8, because I don't (at all), nor am I telling people to suck it up and suddenly be all gung-ho about his presidency, because I'm certainly not. But like I said, lots of people are being just being downright hateful and not what I would call proactive. And yes, if he isn't able to do what he promises and doesn't end up doing a good enough job for this country then he should be chewed out and held accountable which is what I would expect to happen to any president.
> 
> Sorry if some of this is incoherent, I am on mobile right now and fat fingers + pain meds control my whole being atm.



We had the same thing over here with Brexit last summer, which seems ridiculous when you compare the two situations. But plenty of people would love to see leaving the EU fail just so they can throw it back at the leave voters. Like I say, I know it's not the same as who is the American president but people have the same kind of thinking.

I can totally understand why people are fearful of Trump being in power, I haven't disliked a politician so much since David Cameron, but there's nothing that can be done now other than to go along with it  
He will hopefully be held accountable at the end of his run for anything he messes up along the way


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## 1milk (Jan 21, 2017)

This might be another assasination, lmao.


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## LambdaDelta (Jan 21, 2017)

Apple2012 said:


> I want them to take care of the increasing problem with political correctness.



wow, I never knew having a basic level of respect for others was a "problem"



Envy said:


> How dreadful. I heard that the White House pages for LGBT rights, disabled people, civil rights, climate change, and healthcare all got removed today. The dark ages are upon us.



this is really a perfect summarization of the modern GOP platform



Raskell said:


> Those who oppose him. Give him a chance.



nah, **** that

he's shown us exactly the type of person he is time and time again. he needs to start proving he deserves to be given another chance at this point



Raskell said:


> Pence is questionable, sketchy.



the man literally supports conversation therapy

and the fact that Trump choose him as vice president says all that needs to be said about him on that matter as well

- - - Post Merge - - -

oh btw

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/19...ropose-bills-to-criminalize-peaceful-protest/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/18/indiana-protest-bill-police-power

GOP lawmakers attempting to pass bills that would criminalize and advocate the manslaughter of protesters


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## LinkToTheWorld (Jan 21, 2017)

1milk said:


> This might be another assasination, lmao.



Well the way it's split America, it wouldn't surprise me


----------



## Eudial (Jan 21, 2017)

I've been saying it since this whole thing started, "let's wait and see". It's not Trump that I'm worried about, it's the people who he chose to be around him. I've seen a lot of people saying that after he ends certain programs, that hard-working people will have their money going back into their own pockets... They think by defunding stuff like Planned Parenthood, that things will just "get better". I don't know... I think people just have very high hopes of this man, and the only thing he seems to have on his mind is $$$.


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## tumut (Jan 21, 2017)

Apple2012 said:


> What don't you like about him?


-Thinks he was anointed by God to be president
-Tried to blame planned parenthood murders on "transgender liberal activist"
-Deemed gays satanic at a rally like it was normal
-Said Obama pushed refugees to murder innocent Americans...lol
-Thinks we should be a Christian theocracy
-Wants to ignore the supreme court ruling on gay marriage
-Wants to carpet bomb the middle east "without harming civilians" (which is impossible)
-Wants to privatize social security
-Supported TPP and other ****ty free trade deals

Trump is still ****ing awful though but Ted Cruz is way worse


----------



## xSuperMario64x (Jan 21, 2017)

I like to watch the riots and see how stupid people can really be.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Dixx said:


> -Thinks he was anointed by God to be president
> -Tried to blame planned parenthood murders on "transgender liberal activist"
> -Deemed gays satanic at a rally like it was normal
> -Said Obama pushed refugees to murder innocent Americans...lol
> ...



Can you give a legitimate source for each of those? Some of them sound like false claims.


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Dixx said:


> -Deemed gays satanic at a rally like it was normal



Here's a link. Get educated.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html?_r=1

- - - Post Merge - - -

Most of those do seem like false claims.


----------



## blueninjutsu (Jan 21, 2017)

ah, don't really care for trump. he's an idiot.


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> wow, I never knew having a basic level of respect for others was a "problem"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For those who aren't giving him a chance... then look at previous comments. Like fr.

I have my opinion over Pence. I don't think he is extremely homophobic. He is homophobic, no doubt about that. But want to know who's more intolerant? You!

When teachers are having to call their students in Pre-K "purple penguins"... I think PC culture has gone too far. As well as when people are "shamed" for having their own opinions.

Fact : Black On White Crime Is Just As Serious As White On Black Crime

Then I get yelled at and hated for being "racist" for the comment I made above.


----------



## DJStarstryker (Jan 21, 2017)

I personally have really strong opinions about Pence. I said I'm willing to give Trump a chance, though I worry about how well he could do, and this is true. I am willing. But Pence... he seems really extreme. Like if Trump were to die/step down/whatever, and Pence got to take over... I'd be REALLY worried for the country.


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

DJStarstryker said:


> I personally have really strong opinions about Pence. I said I'm willing to give Trump a chance, though I worry about how well he could do, and this is true. I am willing. But Pence... he seems really extreme. Like if Trump were to die/step down/whatever, and Pence got to take over... I'd be REALLY worried for the country.


I can totally understand that.


----------



## tumut (Jan 21, 2017)

xSuperMario64x said:


> I like to watch the riots and see how stupid people can really be.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...


x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x

I couldn't find the one about him saying that Obama pushed refugees to attack us citizens but judging but the fact that in an interview with Sean Hannity on Fox he played the hwole "Obama is a secret Muslim" card I wouldn't put it past him


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## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

So now you're just speculating and adhering to false claims without any information trying to make it relevant and true?


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## tumut (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> So now you're just speculating and adhering to false claims without any information trying to make it relevant and true?


I thought it was true cause I heard before but it wasn't, 9/10 of those have clear cut evidence. Even the "transgender leftist" thing lmao. 
Lets not forget that epic government shutdown shenanigan back in 2013: x
The reason he's worse than Trump is because he's actually serious about his looney ideas and ideology where Trump bluffed for like 70% what he's said vs. what his plans are


----------



## DJStarstryker (Jan 21, 2017)

Dixx said:


> I thought it was true cause I heard before but it wasn't, 9/10 of those have clear cut evidence. Even the "transgender leftist" thing lmao.
> Lets not forget that epic government shutdown shenanigan back in 2013: x
> The reason he's worse than Trump is because he's actually serious about his looney ideas and ideology where Trump bluffed for like 70% what he's said vs. what his plans are



Uh... I worked for the federal government in 2013 (I don't now, FWIW). The shutdown had nothing to do with Obama, and everything to do with Congress. I'm personally more indifferent/slightly disappointed in Obama (I feel like he tried - but he definitely didn't change as much as he claimed he would during the campaign trail), but you can't put that on him.


----------



## Ghost Soda (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> When teachers are having to call their students in Pre-K "purple penguins"... I think PC culture has gone too far. As well as when people are "shamed" for having their own opinions.



Because nothing in the world is worse than being inclusive to people that are different than you, curse PC culture and how it's making being treat others with human decency!!!111

And news flash: if your "opinions" are bigoted and hateful than they deserved to get shamed. Free speech doesn't mean the garbage you spew can't be criticized.


----------



## Alolan_Apples (Jan 21, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> wow, I never knew having a basic level of respect for others was a "problem"



This isn't respect for others. If you want to know what counts as political correctness, it's not just banning some words or activities that may offend some people. It includes hypocrisy meant to weaken their political opponents, accusations of intolerance for being one group they don't like, yet allow or encourage intolerance against them, and throwing in race in issues that wasn't even about race. Do you think it's "respect" to encourage hatred towards people that don't agree with you?



> this is really a perfect summarization of the modern GOP platform



This totally reminds me of why I hate you so much. You said a while ago that the Republicans are a white nationalist group, which is why I lost all respect in you. To hate the politicians for some of the actions you don't approve of is one thing, but to say that intolerance is a core belief of theirs is pure bias. I'm a Republican, yet I don't preach intolerance of any kind. Your implication basically says that all Republicans (including commoners rather than politicians and journalists) are intolerant, and I hate people like that. I know I was contradicting myself when I told someone to be respectful earlier, but I really hate claims that Republicans are intolerant like this.



> oh btw
> 
> https://theintercept.com/2017/01/19...ropose-bills-to-criminalize-peaceful-protest/
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/18/indiana-protest-bill-police-power
> ...



I am against banning peaceful protests, but what they're trying to punish are aggressive protesters and rioters. Not once is it okay to mass protest to block streets, and not once is it okay to riot. The civil rights protests in the 50's and 60's where rightful protests, but the anti-Trump riots and protests are immature.


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Dixx said:


> I thought it was true cause I heard before but it wasn't, 9/10 of those have clear cut evidence. Even the "transgender leftist" thing lmao.
> Lets not forget that epic government shutdown shenanigan back in 2013: x
> The reason he's worse than Trump is because he's actually serious about his looney ideas and ideology where Trump bluffed for like 70% what he's said vs. what his plans are



Then where are the sources? That's like me saying uh, aliens do exist. There's tons of stuff to back it up.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Ghost Soda said:


> Because nothing in the world is worse than being inclusive to people that are different than you, curse PC culture and how it's making being treat others with human decency!!!111
> 
> And news flash: if your "opinions" are bigoted and hateful than they deserved to get shamed. Free speech doesn't mean the garbage you spew can't be criticized.




Free speech means you get to speak freely. I think the left spews out garbage sometimes, do I call them hateful bigots? lol, no.

Just look at what Apple2012 said about PC.


----------



## Bowie (Jan 21, 2017)

Not trying to be funny, but I think it's a pretty good idea to be truthful when you're campaigning for president. Lying to everybody doesn't exactly make you better. Trump is dump and anyone who chooses to "give him a chance" is endorsing all the things he has said and done, which is fair enough if you can tell me that you agree with him on everything, but don't give me the "he's not as bad as you think" garbage. Look at him for what he actually is.


----------



## Ghost Soda (Jan 21, 2017)

Apple2012 said:


> This isn't respect for others. If you want to know what counts as political correctness, it's not just banning some words or activities that may offend some people. It includes hypocrisy meant to weaken their political opponents, accusations of intolerance for being one group they don't like, yet allow or encourage intolerance against them, and throwing in race in issues that wasn't even about race. Do you think it's "respect" to encourage hatred towards people that don't agree with you?



Did you even read was I was responding to? I was responding to the purple penguins stuff being cited as a reason why PC culture is going to far. I don't see how using more inclusive terminology is "encouraging hatred towards people" but _ok_.



Raskell said:


> Free speech means you get to speak freely. I think the left spews out garbage sometimes, do I call them hateful bigots? lol, no.



Eh, I don't care about left or right or whatever, but if the shoe fits.


----------



## tumut (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Then where are the sources? That's like me saying uh, aliens do exist. There's tons of stuff to back it up.





Dixx said:


> x
> x
> x
> x
> ...


r e a d

- - - Post Merge - - -

Political correctness is a good thing but you shouldn't be forced to be politically correct

- - - Post Merge - - -



DJStarstryker said:


> Uh... I worked for the federal government in 2013 (I don't now, FWIW). The shutdown had nothing to do with Obama, and everything to do with Congress. I'm personally more indifferent/slightly disappointed in Obama (I feel like he tried - but he definitely didn't change as much as he claimed he would during the campaign trail), but you can't put that on him.


Obama was pretty disappointing as a president and did plenty wrong, and some good. But yeah, I realize that it was republican congress that shut it down.


----------



## LambdaDelta (Jan 21, 2017)

Apple2012 said:


> Do you think it's "respect" to encourage hatred towards people that don't agree with you?



I mean the only things I see people getting mad about political correctness for in this regard are things they deserve to be hated and ridiculed for, so yes.



Apple2012 said:


> Your implication basically says that all Republicans (including commoners rather than politicians and journalists) are intolerant



nah, the party platform and voters are certainly different (though they do overlap, of course)



Apple2012 said:


> I am against banning peaceful protests, but what they're trying to punish are aggressive protesters and rioters. Not once is it okay to mass protest to block streets, and not once is it okay to riot. The civil rights protests in the 50's and 60's where rightful protests, but the anti-Trump riots and protests are immature.



lmao if you actually think anything ever got changed by protesters not causing some level of disturbance

this is a silencing tactic, plain and simple. the only "protests" they want are ones they can happily ignore


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Bowie said:


> Not trying to be funny, but I think it's a pretty good idea to be truthful when you're campaigning for president. Lying to everybody doesn't exactly make you better. Trump is dump and anyone who chooses to "give him a chance" is endorsing all the things he has said and done, which is fair enough if you can tell me that you agree with him on everything, but don't give me the "he's not as bad as you think" garbage. Look at him for what he actually is.



Look at all the things Hillary has done... 

Trump is not garbage.

Those who deny "giving him a chance" and deem it as "despicable"... (or should I say deplorable?) are intolerant of other's opinions it seems like.


----------



## Bowie (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Look at all the things Hillary has done... lolz



Don't change the subject. I was a Bernie supporter anyway.


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Ghost Soda said:


> Eh, I don't care about left or right or whatever, but if the shoe fits.



Just because someone has different opinions than me I don't try to force them to be quiet or shuddup about it. That was my point.


----------



## LambdaDelta (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Trump is not garbage.



you're right, at least garbage started as something useful


----------



## tumut (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Trump is not garbage.


WRONG!


Raskell said:


> Look at all the things Hillary has done...


As if Donald Trump doesn't have an equally ****ty record


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Bowie said:


> Don't change the subject. I was a Bernie supporter anyway.



Yea and Bernie was such a great guy... 

That man is a moron.

The only praising thing he has done is what he's done with civil rights.

Other than that, he's a moron.

Free college, c'mon?
- Taxes would raise.
- Too many applicants.
- Required test scores would increase.
- Etc, etc. It wouldn't work.

When our current education system is screwed, how can we work towards free college? Look at other countries that are working towards free college or whom have it. They're failing.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Dixx said:


> WRONG!
> 
> As if Donald Trump doesn't have an equally ****ty record




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9FPbgeQFvY




One Youtuber Commented/Summed Up This Video




1) Trump’s private jet flew a seriously ill jewish boy from California to New York for medical treatment.
2) The time that Donald Trump saved Ed McMahon’s house by purchasing it and allowing Ed to continue living in it.

3) Trump has donated his money to several health organizations including the American Cancer Society, American Diabetes Association, Alliance for Lupus Research, Autism Speaks, Crohn’s & Colitis Foundation of America, and many more.

4) Donald Trump called on the family at its home after their son, Ryan White, died of AIDS at age 18.

5) He saved an ice skating rink in Central Park by taking over the over – budget project, and finishing the rink by Christmas time for free. He was two months ahead of schedule, and $750,000 under budget. He also operated the ice skating rink for a year, and donated all profits to charity.

6) Donald Trump and Mel Farr teamed up to help young Detroit artists Appear at Carnegie Hall.

7) Donald Trump kept the Harlem Hoops program alive after learning the man who ran it was killed during the September 11th attacks.

8) How Trump Fought Antisemitism and Racism in Palm Beach Two Decades Ago

9) Barbara Res, at 33 years old became the first women to ever be put in charge of supervising the construction of a skyscraper, when Donald Trump hired her in 1980.


10) Donald Trump’s flagpole got fined $1250 per day, but sued the city citing the 1st amendment. Eventually they cut a deal ($100,000) that benefited Iraq War Veterans, the American flag and/or the local VA hospital.

11) After Jennifer Hudson’s mother, brother, and nephew were murdered, Trump sheltered her and her family at the Trump International Hotel & Tower free of charge.

12) Trump offered a $10,000 reward to the Buffalo bus driver who stopped a young woman from leaping off a bridge to her death in 2013.

13) Donald Trump was on ground zero after the September 11th attacks. He sent over 200 of  his own people to look for survivors in the wreckage.

14) Donald J. Trump and his siblings gave a $1 million gift to the hospital that treated their parents.

- - - Post Merge - - -

Get wrecked?

- - - Post Merge - - -

Oh, and here you go as well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...53018f9a0ec_story.html?utm_term=.f00678b07fe2

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html?_r=1


----------



## Bowie (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Yea and Bernie was such a great guy...
> 
> That man is a moron.
> 
> ...



Again, changing the subject.

If you are that curious about it, here's a link to the free college proposal. It makes sense. Hopefully you can read it properly.


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

He hasn't defended a pedophile and viciously, outrageously attacked the victim of pedophilia.

He doesn't flip flop. 
Hillary - against gay marriage.
Hillary - for gay marriage.


Oh, and he doesn't have American blood on his hands.

Know whom I'm talking about?

- - - Post Merge - - -



Bowie said:


> Again, changing the subject.
> 
> If you are that curious about it, here's a link to the free college proposal. It makes sense. Hopefully you can read it properly.



I've already researched and has made up my mind about this "free college".


----------



## nintendofan85 (Jan 21, 2017)

shunishu said:


> we've been seeing "what happens" (it's happening) for the past few months already (or the past 2 years tbh), in everything he said, did, announced and everyone he appointed and everything that was set into motion before he was even sworn in, like drastic cuts (erasing) to (women's) healthcare & cutting national arts funding etc etc list goes on..
> there's no waiting or doubt, it's all in the open, they aren't waiting either. we now need to pay attention, be vocal and do damage control and not let them get away with. in the end they work for the people (even tho they clearly don't) and have to answer to them.



If he does anything like that, then I will be vocal with them. What I meant more so was that I think as we wait, a firm eye should be placed on Trump in his early days in office and afterward.


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## Bowie (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> I've already researched and has made up my mind about this "free college".



Oh, so you've made your mind up, have you? Why don't you tell me some of the research you've uncovered (copy-pasted)?


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> you're right, at least garbage started as something useful



Huh? lol

- - - Post Merge - - -



Bowie said:


> Oh, so you've made your mind up, have you? Why don't you tell me some of the research you've uncovered (copy-pasted)?



I already explained what I think.

Taxes would raise.

Either increase of applicants (too many for colleges to handle) or the passing scores to get accepted would increase.

Our education system is messed up already.

By the way, I don't copy and paste. When I do (like above) I state that I do, "one youtube comment sums of this video".

Get your facts str8, please.


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## Bowie (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> I already explained what I think.
> 
> Taxes would raise.
> 
> ...



Okay, please actually read the information on the website I provided you with, because then you wouldn't be saying what you're saying. You just come up with random "facts" so you don't have to admit you're wrong. This is the reason politics is so messed up. Nobody likes to admit when they're wrong.

Also, learn to spell.


----------



## LambdaDelta (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Oh, and he doesn't have American blood on his hands.



because they're on his bills


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## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

You mean the $$$ he uses to help veterans? 

- - - Post Merge - - -



Bowie said:


> Okay, please actually read the information on the website I provided you with, because then you wouldn't be saying what you're saying. You just come up with random "facts" so you don't have to admit you're wrong. This is the reason politics is so messed up. Nobody likes to admit when they're wrong.
> 
> Also, learn to spell.



I admit when I believe I'm wrong. Ask anyone who knows me. Get it str8.

Also, don't get salty over a political thread.


----------



## Cory (Jan 21, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> wow, I never knew having a basic level of respect for others was a "problem"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



show the source for the conversion therapy...
im waiting...


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

He has stated something that can easily be interpreted to conversion therapy. He did not exclusively say it though. 

He's sketchy, but in this day and age... every politician is.


----------



## LambdaDelta (Jan 21, 2017)

I mean the money he got by being a terrible businessman and screwing over people's lives


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## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> I mean the money he got by being a terrible businessman and screwing over people's lives



'Terrible Businessman' Ok. Look at him again and please come back to me. xoxo

Sources? lol


----------



## Cory (Jan 21, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> I mean the money he got by being a terrible businessman and screwing over people's lives



thats called capitalism


----------



## Bowie (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> I admit when I believe I'm wrong. Ask anyone who knows me. Get it str8.
> 
> Also, don't get salty over a political thread.



No idea why I even bother trying to have serious discussions with people here. They ignore all the references you give them and change the subject every other post. I give up.


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Corey, you're basically saying screwing people's lives over is capitalism? Can you please rephrase what you meant because I know you did not mean that, hopefully...

- - - Post Merge - - -



Bowie said:


> No idea why I even bother trying to have serious discussions with people here. They ignore all the references you give them and change the subject every other post. I give up.



Just like you give up from giving Trump a chance?

I look at articles. I just don't want to look at some bias-opinonated article by Bernie Sanders. 
Communism - looks good on paper, doesn't do well in rl.


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## Cory (Jan 21, 2017)

the american dream is because of captialism
you could start out with a dime in your pocket and eventually become a millionaire.


----------



## LambdaDelta (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Corey, you're basically saying screwing people's lives over is capitalism? Can you please rephrase what you meant because I know you did not mean that, hopefully...



people are a glitch in the capitalist system

if capitalism could function without them, it'd happily be rid of

- - - Post Merge - - -



Cory said:


> thats called capitalism



you're right, doesn't mean I have to advocate it though


----------



## Cory (Jan 21, 2017)

the government would have never passed bernies plan


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## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Cory, you could say the same about anyone's agenda. ?\_(ツ)_/?


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## Cory (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Cory, you could say the same about anyone's agenda. ?\_(ツ)_/?



yes 
most things dont get passed
they dont even make it to the floor of congress


----------



## LambdaDelta (Jan 21, 2017)

Cory said:


> the american dream is because of captialism
> you could start out with a dime in your pocket and eventually become a millionaire.



more like the american dream is a lie that capitalism uses to romanticize itself


----------



## Bowie (Jan 21, 2017)

I do not need to give Trump a chance.

I know everything he plans to do. He has said it, and even if he was lying about it, that wouldn't make him any better of a person and definitely no better of a president. To repeat what I said before he became president, this is a man who thinks planned parenthood is an "abortion factory", thinks Muslim Americans should be abolished until he can "figure things out", "can't decide", on transsexual rights, wants to surrogate individual states (which is what his stance on same-sex marriage will result in), is a complete pervert who calls women "big fat pigs", and has been accused of being a rapist multiple times, including by his very own ex-wife. Oh, and just recently the KKK have claimed him to have "reunited [their] people".

With all of that in mind, there are no chances to give to him. I gave him a chance when he was campaigning, and he blew it within five seconds.


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

The American Dream is so beautiful.


----------



## tumut (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Corey, you're basically saying screwing people's lives over is capitalism? Can you please rephrase what you meant because I know you did not mean that, hopefully...
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...


Theres a difference between communism and socialism. Anytime someone receives social security, Medicaid, etc. whatever its a form of socialism. Communism is when the government dictates the lives of everyone and supplies them with their needs, no competition or actual economy. 

And yes capitalism is screwing over people's lives when the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the middle class shrinks. Basically all of these "free market" supporting republicans want to get rid of regulations that protect consumers, the environment, and small businesses. And there's barely enough of those regulations as it is, and billionaires and corporations are looking ot get some tax cuts under Trump. Bush did the same thing when he was in office and the economy crashed in 2008.


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Bowie said:


> I do not need to give Trump a chance.
> 
> I know everything he plans to do. He has said it, and even if he was lying about it, that wouldn't make him any better of a person and definitely no better of a president. To repeat what I said before he became president, this is a man who thinks planned parenthood is an "abortion factory", thinks Muslim Americans should be abolished until he can "figure things out", "can't decide", on transsexual rights, wants to surrogate individual states (which is what his stance on same-sex marriage will result in), is a complete pervert who calls women "big fat pigs", and has been accused of being a rapist multiple times, including by his very own ex-wife. Oh, and just recently the KKK have claimed him to have "reunited [their] people".
> 
> With all of that in mind, there are no chances to give to him. I gave him a chance when he was campaigning, and he blew it within five seconds.



Sources over the KKK thingy babummer?

N. Korea has endorsed Hillary. KKK has endorsed Hillary.

Hell, the Clinton Foundation could be paying the KKK. There's been great speculation over them paying people to disrupt Trump's rallies.

 If you want I can find an article or you could do a simple Google search and save me from my "copying and pasting"... .-.


----------



## tumut (Jan 21, 2017)

Cory said:


> the american dream is because of captialism
> you could start out with a dime in your pocket and eventually become a millionaire.


Just move up the social ladder! Working 3 jobs and still barely make ends meet?? Haha get another job stop being lazy! #Personal responsibility!


----------



## Bowie (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Sources over the KKK thingy babummer?
> 
> N. Korea has endorsed Hillary. KKK has endorsed Hillary.
> 
> ...



Here. Not sure why you keep bringing up Hilary. I'm not talking about Hilary. I'm talking about Donald Trump.


----------



## Cory (Jan 21, 2017)

Bowie said:


> I do not need to give Trump a chance.
> 
> I know everything he plans to do. He has said it, and even if he was lying about it, that wouldn't make him any better of a person and definitely no better of a president. To repeat what I said before he became president, this is a man who thinks planned parenthood is an "abortion factory", thinks Muslim Americans should be abolished until he can "figure things out", "can't decide", on transsexual rights, *wants to surrogate individual states (which is what his stance on same-sex marriage will result in)*, is a complete pervert who calls women "big fat pigs", and has been accused of being a rapist multiple times, including by his very own ex-wife. Oh, and just recently the KKK have claimed him to have "reunited [their] people".
> 
> With all of that in mind, there are no chances to give to him. I gave him a chance when he was campaigning, and he blew it within five seconds.



bc its the states rights to choose in regards to marriage
but the federal government loves to stomp on the rights of the individual state

- - - Post Merge - - -



Raskell said:


> The American Dream is so beautiful.



hell yea brother


----------



## Bowie (Jan 21, 2017)

Cory said:


> bc its the states rights to choose in regards to marriage
> but the federal government loves to stomp on the rights of the individual state



Uh, no. Being able to love and marry your partner should be universally accepted nowadays. Not sure why anyone would choose _not_ to.


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Trump. 

 Period. Point. Blank.

 Those who support him. Don't go whole-heartedly on his train.

 Those who oppose him. Give him a chance.

?\_(ツ)_/?


----------



## Cory (Jan 21, 2017)

Bowie said:


> Uh, no. Being able to love and marry your partner should be universally accepted nowadays. Not sure why anyone would choose _not_ to.



"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."- 10th amendment


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

A lot of states were also for slavery.


----------



## Bowie (Jan 21, 2017)

Cory said:


> "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."- 10th amendment



To hell with that. No piece of paper should get in the way of something as important as human partnership.


----------



## Cory (Jan 21, 2017)

Bowie said:


> To hell with that. No piece of paper should get in the way of something as important as human partnership.


life isnt always fair 
?\_(ツ)_/?


----------



## Bowie (Jan 21, 2017)

Cory said:


> life isnt always fair
> ?\_(ツ)_/?



It's not something you can just shrug off. There are people who have killed themselves over not being accepted for their sexuality, and the inability to marry their partners just normalises the issue.


----------



## LambdaDelta (Jan 21, 2017)

Cory said:


> life isnt always fair
> ?\_(ツ)_/?



doesn't mean we can't strive to make it more fair


----------



## Cory (Jan 21, 2017)

Bowie said:


> It's not something you can just shrug off. There are people who have killed themselves over not being accepted for their sexuality, and the inability to marry their partners just normalises the issue.



too bad theres the constitution
maybe if there was none and america was anarchy they wouldnt have killed themselves


----------



## moonford (Jan 21, 2017)

Cory said:


> life isnt always fair
> ?\_(ツ)_/?



I think we have all acknowledged that at this point in time, we don't need some person on the internet telling us that. Oh and....?\_(ツ)_/?


----------



## LambdaDelta (Jan 21, 2017)

Cory said:


> too bad theres the constitution



so a piece of paper is more important than human life?

got it. nice to know the kind of person you are


----------



## Cory (Jan 21, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> so a piece of paper is more important than human life?
> 
> got it. nice to know the kind of person you are



yes it is.
the constitution is more important then a few human lives
even a few thousand


----------



## tumut (Jan 21, 2017)

Cory said:


> "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."- 10th amendment


supreme court


----------



## moonford (Jan 21, 2017)

Nah....


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

I think LGBTQ marriage should be legalized regardless of what state says. It was clearly the right choice.

States during a time of racism were against abolishing slavery.
States during a time of intolerance are against same-sex marriage.

See a pattern?


----------



## moonford (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> I think LGBTQ marriage should be legalized regardless of what state says. It was clearly the right choice.



Finally something we can agree on!


----------



## Bowie (Jan 21, 2017)

If you're a Trump supporter you support the undoing of gay marriage legalisation. Simple as that. You can't be somewhere in the middle with that. Don't like it? Don't support him.


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

You got your facts mixed up, Bowie.

- - - Post Merge - - -

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html?_r=1


----------



## Red Cat (Jan 21, 2017)

Trump has never explicitly said that he's personally against LGBT rights, but he could still undermine them with his Supreme Court nomination(s). The decision to make same-sex marriage legal in all states was a 5-4 decision, so if Trump appoints anti-LGBT justices, the decision could possibly be overturned. I doubt it would actually get overturned because it would be political suicide for Republicans to do so at this point, but nothing is set in stone and nothing is predictable now.


----------



## Bowie (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> You got your facts mixed up, Bowie.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html?_r=1



I think you're missing the point. Trump may not be homophobic himself, but the people he's bringing into power certainly are, and his plans for the states will disrupt the legalisation of gay marriage. How is him being happy about Elton John got anything to do with that?

And anyway, Elton John isn't American. Gay marriage here has nothing to do with American politics. He got married in England.


----------



## Envy (Jan 21, 2017)

I remember clearly Trump promising he would do his best to overturn the same-sex marriage decision. Thus, he has _explicitly_ made himself an enemy of LGBT rights.

It does not matter how sincerely he holds that position himself. He has gave the religious right all of the power. He has filled the cabinet with religious right nutjobs and surely will do the same with Supreme Court nominees. Plus, lets not forget his Vice President.

As I stated before, there is no room to give Trump a chance. The one and only thing we can hope for is that minimal damage is able to be done.


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Here we go again.

Give Trump a chance. If you cannot, then you need to re-think some things. You're expecting him to do horribly. "A flower can't grow with you yelling at it."


----------



## Laureline (Jan 21, 2017)

That's rude.


----------



## LambdaDelta (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Give Trump a chance. If you cannot, then you need to re-think some things.



and we're all saying we have given him plenty of chances already


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

You don't think I feel the same with Hillary? But if she would've got elected, that would've guaranteed another chance. If the American people choose someone then that someone deserves a chance.


----------



## demoness (Jan 21, 2017)

i don't give politicians chances.  they have to earn it.  so far he's so out of touch with the economy, foreign affairs, and makes things up.  guys speech literally was nixons pandering to an imaginary silent majority all over again and he literally thought betsy devos, bannon and a bunch of blatantly corrupt or inexperienced cabinet members was a sound idea.  once he does something progressive, if he actually does, only then will i give him a chance.  i used to believe that centrist hohum stuff too when i was a teenager, now i'm in my mid-20s and quickly learned that the wait and see strategy is kinda realistically naive.  people can change, sure, but they don't get elected as an authoritarian alt-right darling and turn into a human rights machine.  i think you'll find centrist means slightly less far right to modern republican politicians.  hillary clinton actually had political experience, giving her or bernie sanders even the other republican candidates a chance, that's reasonable.  trump just keeps showing me he's unhinged and easily influenced and bought by his cabinet


----------



## Trent the Paladin (Jan 21, 2017)

Friendly reminder to keep cool heads here. Thread's blown up in the last twenty four hours, keep calm when trying to debate. Stay on topic as well please. No popcornin.


----------



## JiEToy (Jan 21, 2017)

There is a lot of confusion about giving Trump a chance. I think no one can give him a chance if they look at the campaign he has run and the time between the outcome of the elections and his inauguration. And now his inauguration speech did not change tone, there is no way we should give him a chance.

I used to be all for giving him a chance. I hoped he would change to be more presidential after he got elected. In his first couple of speeches, in his victory tour across the country, when the public started chanting "lock her up", he literally said this: "That plays well in the election, but not anymore". I really held on to the hope that this man wasn't insane, that this man was actually going to lead the country in an intelligent way.

However, very soon he started to pick up his old retoric again. He still wanted to build the wall AND make Mexico pay for it. He still wanted to repeal the Affordable Care Act. The only thing he had done away with, was locking up Hillary Clinton. And then he appointed his cabinet. The richest cabinet ever. The cabinet that has a total worth the same as the lower third part of all Americans. This has nothing to do with "giving back politics to the public". All the cabinet nominees have been extensively discussed everywhere. Republican or democrat, no one can deny that most of them are the worst picks that one could possibly have for their positions. The CEO of an oil company, the oil business, the most terrible business in the world, as state secretary? The candidate-nominee for president, who could not remember the department he would do away with, will now head the very same department?
And then there's the fact that the Trump administration is not ready for the presidency. They never were. Three days ago, they had appointed 28 out of 690 positions that need senate confirmation. I have seen some people reply to this news that the democrats need to stop blocking nominees. But this is not about blocking, there is nothing to block! There are no nominees, and no one knows if there are people being interviewed. During a normal transition there would be at least 100 of these 690 positions should be filled, confirmed and everything, around inauguration day. But only 28 people have been appointed and not all have been confirmed. This story gets worse. There are also about 3000 positions that need NO confirmation. Mike Pence boasted three days ago that the Trump administration had appointed 536 people to these positions. This is stunning and not normal. One positive point about this: Some people of the Obama administration will stay on to fill some of these position, but the number that goes around is about 50 only, so this doesn't help a lot.
Then of course, there's the issue of his ties to his business. He does not want to put his companies in a blind trust (No, his sons are not a blind trust). In his first press conference in half a year he boasted that he did not take a bribe. That is all good and well, but the darker message is that he is offered bribes. He was offered 2 billion dollars for a project somewhere in the middle-east. Trump has not given his tax returns. This means the public cannot know where his ties are exactly, and the fact that he does not cut these ties in a meaningful way, means that we cannot trust him.
There are so many more points like this, I haven't even started about ties with Russia. I don't want to write an entire book in one post. But giving this man a chance? Even if his policy will be all good, he still has his cabinet that can destroy the world. They have already taken down the pages of civil rights and climate change on the .gov websites. Trump is not in control, and even if he was, all the signs are there that he is a corrupt president. This sort of behaviour is normal in the third world countries. In Africa, Gambia, president Jammeh did not want to leave after a new president had been voted in, this happened over the past few days. Only after an army of surrounding countries stood on the doorstep of Gambia, Jammeh finally gave in. Is this what awaits the United States of America?


----------



## oath2order (Jan 21, 2017)

Cory said:


> bc its the states rights to choose in regards to marriage
> but the federal government loves to stomp on the rights of the individual state
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> ...



Sorry, but the Supreme Court has the right to decide things.

And they decided the states don't get to choose.


----------



## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Conensus : 

Some Want Trump To Earn A Chance, Some Are Denying Him Any Chance, Some Are Giving Him A Chance

Most Side With The Supreme Court, Some Do Not - Gay Marriage Legalization


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## Stepheroo (Jan 21, 2017)

Then let me rephrase my stuff and just say that, if you can't give Trump a chance or even let him try and re-earn one, then give America a chance. Give this country the support that it is most likely going to desperately need if things play out a certain way. Give it the chance to bounce back if things go haywire.

Don't give up on it. JFC, please, don't give up on it.



Tom said:


> *No popcornin.*



Also, for some reason, I lost it at this. I found it so funny but I can't even explain why.


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## LambdaDelta (Jan 21, 2017)

oh, and Trump basically declared war on and is clearly trying to manipulate the media for "lying" about his inauguration attendance numbers

so yeah. at this point **** you if you think he actually deserves a chance and isn't an actual legitimate threat


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## JiEToy (Jan 21, 2017)

Second chances are for things where you can start with a clean slate. People do not forget, so Trump will not get a second chance, he first had to make up for all the wrongs he has done. Only when Trump is not president anymore, the president of the U.S. gets a second chance. However, people should not generalize either, not every American is a Trump supporter, shown only by how many people were in Washington today compared to how many were at the inauguration. And even not every Trump supporter is an idiot. So the people of America deserve a better president, and a second chance. Let's hope that this cabinet falls quickly.


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## Alolan_Apples (Jan 21, 2017)

People are still protesting his presidency. According to recent reports, 217 Trump opponents involved in the protests were apprehended. Opposing him is one thing, but these people were being violent. And people accuse him of tyranny when in reality these protesters and rioters are barbarians.


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## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

From what I've seen his inauguration was not only 250,000. The media predicted that Trump would have lost, he didn't. The media estimated 250,000 people at his inauguration, um - it was definitely more. 

Obama only had such an outcome because he was the first black president.

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Apple2012 said:


> People are still protesting his presidency. According to recent reports, 217 Trump opponents involved in the protests were apprehended. Opposing him is one thing, but these people were being violent. And people accuse him of tyranny when in reality these protesters and rioters are barbarians.



Yes. I agree with this 100%.

If Hillary would have won, Trump supporters wouldn't have thrown a hissy-fit.

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The estimation also came from Dan Gross. One report.

Bottom line.

It wasn't the best weather.
His speech was inspirational.
I saw way more than 250k.


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## piichinu (Jan 21, 2017)

ya they would've thrown a different type of fit


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## Mink777 (Jan 21, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> **** this racist, sexist, misogynistic, sociopathic, narcissistic, fascist, dip**** nazi manchild
> 
> and I know I missed at least 5 more valid insults in that
> 
> ...



somebody's... TRIGGERED!

I don't really like Trump, but c'mon, you know?


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## Red Cat (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Here we go again.
> 
> Give Trump a chance. If you cannot, then you need to re-think some things. You're expecting him to do horribly. "A flower can't grow with you yelling at it."



But a flower can grow with you yelling at it...

Trump can still govern even with people protesting and criticizing him. Obama did it. Ever other president before had to deal with protests. Obama has been criticized a ton, but he didn't stop and get in a Twitter war with almost every single person who criticized him. Trump can either try to brush off his critics and focus on his job and gain more support that way, or he can keep pulling his Android out of his butt at 3 A.M. every morning and continue looking like an ass. It's his choice. But Trump has been kind of stuck in an adolescent state for 70 years now, so I wouldn't put money on him reaching adulthood in the next few months or even the next 4 years.


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## Alolan_Apples (Jan 21, 2017)

Alien51 said:


> somebody's... TRIGGERED!
> 
> I don't really like Trump, but c'mon, you know?



The problem here is that she has extreme liberal bias. As I read some of her posts, I can tell that she is far-left. Probably more left than Ted Cruz is right.


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## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8llFHHAkGcw

Those media reports were lies.


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## Mink777 (Jan 21, 2017)

Apple2012 said:


> The problem here is that she has extreme liberal bias. As I read some of her posts, I can tell that she is far-left. Probably more left than Ted Cruz is right.



She's a lot more than extreme.


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## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Who are we talking about?

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Oh, I see.

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Well. Here's the bottom line.

Trump has four years in office. He can do terrible, he can do good.

I think the most terrifying thing are a few of his cabinet picks, one or two and Mike Pence.

I think that protests have the right to protest but not act like barbarians.


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## LambdaDelta (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8llFHHAkGcw
> 
> Those media reports were lies.



video and photographic evidence says otherwise, but lol continue to believe whatever bull**** you're fed


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## DJStarstryker (Jan 21, 2017)

I agree with Raskell. It's totally fine for people to protest. That is their constitutional right, after all. But they shouldn't be violent or causing property damage.

Last night I saw some clips on the news of stores in DC with their front windows shattered. These are stores I literally just walked by a few weeks ago. It's really surreal.


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## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

They're being whiny crybabies that didn't get that popsicle flavor they wanted to get.


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## LambdaDelta (Jan 21, 2017)

DJStarstryker said:


> I agree with Raskell. It's totally fine for people to protest. That is their constitutional right, after all. But they shouldn't be violent or causing property damage.



hi, go read a ****ing history book and tell me how many times stuff got changed by protesters being nice



DJStarstryker said:


> Last night I saw some clips on the news of stores in DC with their front windows shattered. These are stores I literally just walked by a few weeks ago. It's really surreal.



and **** you for insintuating that windows are more important than human life


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## Hopeless Opus (Jan 21, 2017)

this is prob gonna sound extremely biased lol but i just don't see how trump is supportive of the LGBT community whatsoever? especially after the LGBT page got taken down on their site lol like..


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## DJStarstryker (Jan 21, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> hi, go read a ****ing history book and tell me how many times stuff got changed by protesters being nice
> 
> 
> 
> and **** you for insintuating that windows are more important than human life



Wow. OK then. Someone needs to take a chill pill. I can't see how a single thing I said would be insulting or upsetting enough to use that sort of language. I thought we were all having a reasonable discussion here.

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Hopeless Opus said:


> this is prob gonna sound extremely biased lol but i just don't see how trump is supportive of the LGBT community whatsoever? especially after the LGBT page got taken down on their site lol like..



I don't know if he's truly supportive. I think he's indifferent to it.

My issue is that some of the people that he has in his team (Pence and some of Trump's cabinet) are NOT LGBT friendly. And, with the way politics works, some of those people are going to try to tell Trump to do x thing because the Republican party supported him. And, to play the political game, Trump will end up agreeing to some of those things.

Honestly, I think some of those cabinet picks actually happened because of what I just said: that Trump himself didn't necessarily want them, but someone in the Republican Party made him feel like he owed them (or Trump himself didn't know who to pick maybe?), and so that's who he put forward as a name.


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## Alolan_Apples (Jan 21, 2017)

Hopeless Opus said:


> this is prob gonna sound extremely biased lol but i just don't see how trump is supportive of the LGBT community whatsoever? especially after the LGBT page got taken down on their site lol like..



That doesn't sound like extreme bias at all. By removing the LGBT references on government sites, that's like if the admins on this site delete the Museum board or Gamers Lounge board. Jeremy would never do that.

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LambdaDelta said:


> hi, go read a ****ing history book and tell me how many times stuff got changed by protesters being nice
> 
> and **** you for insintuating that windows are more important than human life



Just grow up. Posts like these aren't going to make you get far. There's no need to be upset like that.


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## LambdaDelta (Jan 21, 2017)

Apple2012 said:


> Just grow up. Posts like these aren't going to make you get far. There's no need to be upset like that.



well, I mean if you want to do their homework for them then be my guest


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## DJStarstryker (Jan 21, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> well, I mean if you want to do their homework for them then be my guest



You're making it seem like violence always is the answer. It's not.

Heck, we just recently had Martin Luther King Day. Mr. King advocated for peaceful protests himself. And he's seen as one of the major historical figures for civil rights in general, but especially civil rights for blacks.

So yeah. That's why I don't know why you're acting that way.


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## Nuclear Bingo (Jan 21, 2017)

when are these goddamn threads gonna stop


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## JiEToy (Jan 21, 2017)

Half a million people are being generalized as rioters because store windows have been smashed. Like with most protests, the focus is quickly on those who are violent (and rightfully so), but we forget that the majority actually protests peacefully. If all of those 500.000 people were there to violently protest Trump's presidency, the military would have had to show up to defend the white house. Also, with how much Trump has talked about the elections being rigged, if he would have lost, there would have been protests (and riots) too. Maybe not as many people, but the atmosphere created by calling the elections rigged was vile. So to say republicans would not have protested the loss of Trump, or the win of Clinton is just naive. 

Raskell, about that bottom line: if he does well, it will be a surprise contradicting the signs that he is giving at the moment. However, if he does wrong, then it is not a good thing to let him run unopposed for four years "because we gave him a chance". That's how the system works, no one has absolute power and there are checks and balances. The media who are now talking about the wrongdoings that the Trump administration is doing, are checking. Now congress needs to do the balancing. In between are the people, who are hearing the checks and now voicing their opinion about it, to make sure those balances will come. The people speak, and if Trump truly wants to give back politics to the people, he should listen. 
But instead he is constantly undermining the checks, by saying the media are lying. And because he is insinuating that the media have some kind of vendetta against him, the media cannot be the checks anymore. At the same time, all common people have jobs and families and lives, they are too busy to investigate thoroughly what goes on, and thus cannot be the checks either. The only checks we then have is the speeches that Trump himself gives. However, checking yourself or your own side, is not a check, that's a farce. So then we end up with an unchecked government that can do whatever they want.
And don't say that congress can check, they are not independent from the government, as they are the government. Every congressman and woman has their own agenda, they all play the game of politics and therefore cannot speak the full truth, lest their game falls apart.

Edit: Sorry for the long posts, I try to make short points, but there is just too much nuance involved to make it short.


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## Cory (Jan 21, 2017)

oath2order said:


> Sorry, but the Supreme Court has the right to decide things.
> 
> And they decided the states don't get to choose.



well i did not know that
thank you


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## LambdaDelta (Jan 21, 2017)

DJStarstryker said:


> Heck, we just recently had Martin Luther King Day. Mr. King advocated for peaceful protests himself. And he's seen as one of the major historical figures for civil rights in general, but especially civil rights for blacks.



“If they continue to use our nonviolence as a cushion for complacency, the wrath of those suffering a long train of abuses will rise.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

even advocating peaceful protests, he understood and respected the more violent portions as legitimate voices of the group

does it suck that property is being damaged and protesters are causing problems for other citizens? sure, but if that's what it takes to be noticed then that's what it takes

if you want to be upset at anything, be upset at the system that forced these protests in the first place


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## tumut (Jan 21, 2017)

We need stricter laws to protect protesters if anything. A small minority of them are actually violent and police forces always try to paint them as violent, and have the complete power to do so if they feel like it. I mean we all saw what was exposed at standing rock where they accused Native American water protectors of being violent and starting fires when it was actually the police's stun grenades that set them off and investigative journalists caught it on video. Not to mention the police were power hosing them in subzero temperatures to put out the fires that they started with their grenades. That's anecdotal but the justice system in this country has a lot of problems which is obvious and you're na?ve if you think otherwise. The whole reason our country started is because of people protesting the government and we shouldn't be pressuring people to comply or "stop being crybabies" because you don't like opposition.


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## Stepheroo (Jan 21, 2017)

Throwing obscenities at people because they don't agree with the violence prevalent in the protests going on (or violence in general) shows what type of person you are.


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## oath2order (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> From what I've seen his inauguration was not only 250,000. The media predicted that Trump would have lost, he didn't. The media estimated 250,000 people at his inauguration, um - it was definitely more.
> 
> Obama only had such an outcome because he was the first black president.
> 
> ...



Obama had massive numbers at both his inaugurations sweatie 

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Raskell said:


> They're being whiny crybabies that didn't get that popsicle flavor they wanted to get.



Ah like the rightwing starting the racist birther nonsense during Obama's presidency!

Or every single rightwing "conspiracy" about him.


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## Dogemon (Jan 21, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> “If they continue to use our nonviolence as a cushion for complacency, the wrath of those suffering a long train of abuses will rise.” - Martin Luther King Jr.
> 
> even advocating peaceful protests, he understood and respected the more violent portions as legitimate voices of the group
> 
> ...



I didn't think this needed to be said, but I guess it does. Regardless of the issue at hand, people do not have the right to destroy the property of others. It's not the system's fault at all either. We had a %40 voter turnout for the recent election and a majority of the people who stayed home were Independent and Democrats. Am I happy with who we have? No. But I'm also not some whiny child who tries to blame the government when it is the people around you, other citizens, who are at fault for who we have in office now.


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## seliph (Jan 21, 2017)

I came in to see whats up and apparently people being upset about their lives being in danger are "just whiners" wowie



DJStarstryker said:


> You're making it seem like violence always is the answer. It's not.
> 
> Heck, we just recently had Martin Luther King Day. Mr. King advocated for peaceful protests himself. And he's seen as one of the major historical figures for civil rights in general, but especially civil rights for blacks.
> 
> So yeah. That's why I don't know why you're acting that way.



You clearly don't know a damn thing about Martin Luther King lmao. MLK was for peaceful protests but he sure as hell wasn't against rioting. He _was_ however against that bs "I'm here for your movement but I don't like your methods (rioting)" mindset.

Also why are people so quick to urge others into acting like a guy who got assassinated?

Edit I didn't see Lambda already replied to you but god damn I hate when people who clearly don't understand MLK try to use him for their stupid "everyone just be nice violence is never the answer uwu" nonsense


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## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Because that man brought change without violence on his hands. 

That was like... wow. Did I just read that?!?


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## seliph (Jan 21, 2017)

Raskell said:


> Because that man brought change without violence on his hands.
> 
> That was like... wow. Did I just read that?!?



And then he was murdered so clearly peaceful protests don't freaking work now do they


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## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Clearly they do because today I don't see any true kinds of racism like in the times when he protested.

You're diminishing his legacy. MLK was a true hero.

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Oh, and to the one who told me that Obama had a large inauguration. I know that. lmao


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## seliph (Jan 21, 2017)

*looks at all the innocent black people getting murdered and arrested for no reason* hmm ok anyways yall get back to it


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## Jawile (Jan 21, 2017)

Glad he's finally in office! Still can't believe he won. I'm optimistic for the future of America now that he's taken over. It's time we unite and make our country great.


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## DJStarstryker (Jan 21, 2017)

So now I have both Lambda and gyro assuming things about me (that I don't know history) and trying to put words in my mouth. You're assuming things over a couple of sentences. 

Alright. Whatever. I'm officially out of this thread. It's way too hostile now and, TBH, I wish the mods would just close it. It's not going to go anywhere productive.


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## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Ok. That's a whole different topic.

Police brutality is not a thing. The African-American community is just so hurt by failed policies made by democrats their looking for someone to blame.

What is real is people thinking they're above the law. In some rare moon cases, yes, Police Officers, but mostly politicians.

All lives matter.


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## Jeremy (Jan 21, 2017)

Hi everyone.  Please remember that everyone has very different opinions and discussions like this one usually don't do anything to change them.  With that in mind, if you choose to discuss topics like this, you must be respectful of others even if you disagree with them.  This is true for all threads on The Bell Tree, which is clearly explained in our rules.  Those who aren't able to respect others, as the rules say, will be faced with an infraction or suspension from the forum.


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## Haskell (Jan 21, 2017)

Jawile said:


> Glad he's finally in office! Still can't believe he won. I'm optimistic for the future of America now that he's taken over. It's time we unite and make our country great.



It is a shocker. Even for his supporters.


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## Antonio (Jan 21, 2017)

Clearly, this thread is just one huge argument that clearly has no solution so this is my final statement. The whole reason why i made this thread was to poke fun at the inauguration of Tonald Dump, which i did because i'm bored. I didn't believe Trump would have become president but in reality all the nominees were what we call in the elementary school, poopie heads. The entire election/debates was stupid as **** and deep down I, and hopefully you guys also notice that this was gonna be a crappy next four year anyhow. Both presidential candidates had their pro but they also had their cons which made them both horrible in their own way and to be honest, i would've rather vote for a piece of a rotten apple instead.

So, what we got is Trump. Finish Decision. We're stuck. Sorry not sorry. The majority of votes went to trump and even with a recount, the no-good, fake weave, sun bright tan, mr grinch still had the most votes. It was all fair and such and i highly doubt Russia hacked the recount aswell. Yes, Trump said he thinks that russia hacked but that guy also thinks we should build a wall, and mexico should pay for it. Am i supporting trump? No, that guy screams pure american stupidity all over his fake tan. What i'm saying is that we are stuck with him no matter what and that protesting probably won't do anything at the moment. All we do now is sit and either wait for him to get impeach or watch this country burn for the next 4 years.

So, to sum of this post, we are stuck with trump and should just enjoy the smoke coming from the fires. I sent a request to lock this thread because all this arguing is cringy to me...

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Clearly, this thread is just one huge argument that clearly has no solution so this is my final statement. The whole reason why i made this thread was to poke fun at the inauguration of Tonald Dump, which i did because i'm bored. I didn't believe Trump would have become president but in reality all the nominees were what we call in the elementary school, poopie heads. The entire election/debates was stupid as **** and deep down I, and hopefully you guys also notice that this was gonna be a crappy next four year anyhow. Both presidential candidates had their pro but they also had their cons which made them both horrible in their own way and to be honest, i would've rather vote for a piece of a rotten apple instead.

So, what we got is Trump. Finish Decision. We're stuck. Sorry not sorry. The majority of votes went to trump and even with a recount, the no-good, fake weave, sun bright tan, mr grinch still had the most votes. It was all fair and such and i highly doubt Russia hacked the recount aswell. Yes, Trump said he thinks that russia hacked but that guy also thinks we should build a wall, and mexico should pay for it. Am i supporting trump? No, that guy screams pure american stupidity all over his fake tan. What i'm saying is that we are stuck with him no matter what and that protesting probably won't do anything at the moment. All we do now is sit and either wait for him to get impeach or watch this country burn for the next 4 years.

So, to sum of this post, we are stuck with trump and should just enjoy the smoke coming from the fires. I sent a request to lock this thread because all this arguing is cringy to me...

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opps, i'll fix that tommorow. I'm on my 3DS so...


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## Jake (Jan 21, 2017)

Locked on request.


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