# Orlando Night Club Shooting



## oath2order (Jun 12, 2016)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...r-identified-by-police-us-media-a7077936.html

This is depressing.


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## Mr. Cat (Jun 12, 2016)

This is everywhere already. I'm so sick of reading about shootings this week. I witnessed a car accident a few days ago. It was like the 20th one in the area that day. And I saw the people inside the car and started sobbing. My parents were just kinda like, "oh, well just be glad you're not them" and continued on. I was messed up for the rest of the day. It always seems as though bad things happen all at once. I'm just so exhuasted by all this death and injury...


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

I don't even know what to say, this is so awful. Over 50 people, killed, by a homophobic attack, in America, in 2016. It makes me want to cry, my heart goes out to the families of those affected. 

Recently there has been so, so much death, it's disgusting.


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## Mink777 (Jun 12, 2016)

The City of Orlando is facing a lot of struggle right now. That is the second thing that happened this weekend there.


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## p e p p e r (Jun 12, 2016)

I just heard about this, it's so sad and I'm disgusted by this.  It's annoying they are saying it has "nothing to do with religion"  I'm pretty sure the shooter's religion played a big part in this atrocity


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## piichinu (Jun 12, 2016)

and now ill get called a terrorist again thx


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

p e p p e r said:


> I just heard about this, it's so sad and I'm disgusted by this.  It's annoying they are saying it has "nothing to do with religion"  I'm pretty sure the shooter's religion played a big part in this atrocity



No, he was violently homophobic, people of every religion can be homophobic. Honestly this is another devastating part to these awful events, it's not only the victims and family of the victims that suffer, it's the innocent people who are needlessly targeted after events like this, just because of their religion or race. Attacks on people who are assumed to be 'terrorists' just because of their religion happened after 9/11, after the Paris event (and pretty much every other similar event) and will no doubt happen again. 

It's an awful, awful event, but I'd leave religion/race out of it, that affects innocent people who are nothing to do with this.


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## Reindeer (Jun 12, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> It's an awful, awful event, but I'd leave religion/race out of it, that affects innocent people who are nothing to do with this.


Attack happened during Ramadan, after ISIS asked for terrorist attacks during this month (there already were attacks in Kazakhstan, Jordan, and Turkey). Omar Mateen is a known ISIS sympathizer. And unless I'm mistaken, ISIS is a terrorist organization that follows a version of the Muslim ideology, an organization that has killed many homosexuals due to this ideology. His religion and affiliation were going to be scrutinized from the moment he decided to carry out this attack.

And while I agree that Muslims shouldn't all be seen as some large group of terrorists, and that those that attack Muslims based on such simplistic notions should be punished, that doesn't mean we should conceal the truth just so we won't hurt a few feelings.


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## focus (Jun 12, 2016)

shiida said:


> and now ill get called a terrorist again thx



I FEEL YOU!!! please yall dont think all muslims are like this, this is against islamic laws anyway!! so sorry for anyone affected. i feel horrible.

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p e p p e r said:


> I just heard about this, it's so sad and I'm disgusted by this.  It's annoying they are saying it has "nothing to do with religion"  I'm pretty sure the shooter's religion played a big part in this atrocity



educate yourself before commenting.

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Reindeer said:


> Attack happened during Ramadan, after ISIS asked for terrorist attacks during this month (there already were attacks in Kazakhstan, Jordan, and Turkey). Omar Mateen is a known ISIS sympathizer. And unless I'm mistaken, ISIS is a terrorist organization that follows a version of the Muslim ideology, an organization that has killed many homosexuals due to this ideology. His religion and affiliation were going to be scrutinized from the moment he decided to carry out this attack.
> 
> And while I agree that Muslims shouldn't all be seen as some large group of terrorists, and that those that attack Muslims based on such simplistic notions should be punished, that doesn't mean we should conceal the truth just so we won't hurt a few feelings.



for the last time, ISIS are NOT muslim!! everything they do is AGAINST ISLAM!! have a good one


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## piichinu (Jun 12, 2016)

focus said:


> I FEEL YOU!!! please yall dont think all muslims are like this, this is against islamic laws anyway!! so sorry for anyone affected. i feel horrible.



im not even muslim tho LOL thats why its funny im catholic and syrian and ppl still like to think im a terrorist


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## focus (Jun 12, 2016)

shiida said:


> im not even muslim tho LOL thats why its funny im catholic and syrian and ppl still like to think im a terrorist



still feel u


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> His religion and affiliation were going to be scrutinized from the moment he decided to carry out this attack



Why does this ideology only apply to certain religions/races?

The fact is, religion didn't need to be brought up in this discussion, he didn't kill/attack those people because of his religion, he done so because he was *homophobic*. It's quite a lot more than just feelings that have been hurt because of this kind of thing, but I don't want to argue about this here, it's taking away from the lives that have been lost. However, I think your ideology is messed up, people are people, regardless of religion, race or anything else, and people are capable of horrible things. I can bet religion wouldn't have been brought up if the attacker was christian.


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## focus (Jun 12, 2016)

Ramadan is supposed to be a holy peaceful month. not even cursing is allowed during Ramadan let alone kill innocent lives. thats 100% haram, you cant kill anyone unless you're at war/defending yourself/its legal by law. not gonna comment any further cause im not in the mood to argue with islamphobia and racism especially not during Ramadan. have a good day yall

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not to mention, crazy how if this was a white christian person for example, nobody would say **** about his race/religion


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## Reindeer (Jun 12, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> Why does this ideology only apply to certain religions/races?


It doesn't. People are trying to find a reason behind why it happened. If you'll remember the terrorist attack in Norway in 2011, the white perpetrator's motivations were also questioned, *including his religion* which was (wrongfully) presumed to be Christian (he was agnostic, if I remember correctly).
Omar Mateen's motivations are being questioned, as they should be, and evidence suggests that this attack may have been influenced by his religion. That's why it's being reported on, not some bull**** racist/Islamophobic reason like you want to believe.



focus said:


> Ramadan is supposed to be a holy peaceful month. not even cursing is allowed during Ramadan let alone kill innocent lives. thats 100% haram, you cant kill anyone unless you're at war/defending yourself/its legal by law. not gonna comment any further cause im not in the mood to argue with islamphobia and racism especially not during Ramadan. have a good day yall


I never said anything bad against Ramadan, I only presented the facts as they were. ISIS called for attacks during Ramadan, I don't see how that is taken as Islamophobic. That would mean that saying Obama is black is racist.
Ramadan is one of the most respectable times of any religion, one in which people try to understand the struggles of the poor and homeless. I can respect that fully, that's way more than I ever have done. But that doesn't change the fact that a Muslim terrorist organization called for attacks during this time.
And, to respond to what you said earlier (that ISIS is not Muslim), if I were to say that you're not Muslim, would that make it true? I can't decide your religion for you, so I don't think you can decide the religion for thousands of people in an organization. Their version of the ideology is not yours, that's all.


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## tearypastel (Jun 12, 2016)

focus said:


> not to mention, crazy how if this was a white christian person for example, nobody would say **** about his race/religion



some christian people are known for being very homophobic, that would be spread around a hell of a lot too (this is a generalization i'm not saying you can't be christian and gay!! you can be love whoever, identify as whatever and believe in whatever no matter what)


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## debinoresu (Jun 12, 2016)

i wouldnt blame religion, i would blame misinterpretation of religion and personal ignorance. christians commit acts of terrorism, as do atheists, any person with any religious stance is capable of any crime. it is a personal flaw, not a religious flaw. no where in anyones religious text does it say "shoot up gay nightclubs." dont blame an entire religion for this one mans actions, regardless of if his personal religious interpretation resulted in this action, it was very much his own delusion to blame.

i wish people would push aside his religion and focus on the horrific hate crime that has been committed instead. i hope this opens eyes to how ignorance is still very much alive from people who thought it died alongside the gay marriage bans.


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> Omar Mateen's motivations are being questioned, as they should be, and evidence suggests that this attack may have been influenced by his religion. That's why it's being reported on, not some bull**** racist/Islamophobic reason like you want to believe.



It was a hate crime, against lgbt+ people, I think it's pretty clear what his motives were.


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## ktn (Jun 12, 2016)

#RIPChristina, all I can say right now. I watched a lot of her videos back then, to think this would happen...


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## tearypastel (Jun 12, 2016)

aside from the analyzing aspect of it:

it's actually made me so ill thinking about who that could have been. it makes me ill thinking about who it was! somebody's gonna wake up and go 'my son is dead because of a person with a gun that disliked him.' somebody's gonna go 'where's dad?' and somebody's gonna have to reply 'he's in heaven.' somebody's going to have to face the realisation that their boyfriend is dead. their wife is dead. their cousin, neighbour, their repairman, the person they once sold that chair to is dead. because of a person who couldn't control themself and had to shoot an entire club up. it's a hate crime, and a travesty, and if some old white guy with a billion bucks behind him doesn't realise that 'hmmm, maybe gun laws are a bit too lenient here' then i will never have faith in humanity again.


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## focus (Jun 12, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> I never said anything bad against Ramadan, I only presented the facts as they were. ISIS called for attacks during Ramadan, I don't see how that is taken as Islamophobic. That would mean that saying Obama is black is racist.
> Ramadan is one of the most respectable times of any religion, one in which people try to understand the struggles of the poor and homeless. I can respect that fully, that's way more than I ever have done. But that doesn't change the fact that a Muslim terrorist organization called for attacks during this time.
> And, to respond to what you said earlier (that ISIS is not Muslim), if I were to say that you're not Muslim, would that make it true? I can't decide your religion for you, so I don't think you can decide the religion for thousands of people in an organization. Their version of the ideology is not yours, that's all.



what? i never said you said anything about ramadan. i was saying if they were really muslims no matter what their "ideology" is they'd know that. they're not muslims hunty. muslims dont kill muslims.

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tearypastel said:


> some christian people are known for being very homophobic, that would be spread around a hell of a lot too (this is a generalization i'm not saying you can't be christian and gay!! you can be love whoever, identify as whatever and believe in whatever no matter what)



i know someone's gonna point out their christian but lets face the facts, they wouldn't recieve this much hate and generalization. christians arent the ones who are always called terrorists and are always being questioned and getting looks. i've even been asked if i'm carrying a weapon before when i was in USA, because my mom and sister were wearing a hijab. and whenever i would speak arabic i would get SO much looks. its not even about feelings anymore at this point lots of people fear us for no reason


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## tobi! (Jun 12, 2016)

r/news (reddit) is censoring discussion about it.


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## f11 (Jun 12, 2016)

“Mir Seddique, Mateen’s father told NBC News, “this has nothing to do with religion.” Seddique said his son got angry when he saw two men kissing in Miami a couple of months ago and thinks that may be related to the shooting.
“We are saying we are apologizing for the whole incident. We weren’t aware of any action he is taking. We are in shock like the whole country,” Seddique said.”

Nothing to do with religion :/ A hate crime is a hate crime. It sucks that in Orlando gay people weren't allowed to donate blood at first in fear of HIV. To even donate there were strict condition, like not having sex in a year. After this, the restrictions will be put back in place, which is pretty dehumanizing.


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## DarkDesertFox (Jun 12, 2016)

This world has really gone to ****. The fact such monstrous people are out there is sickening. Sending prayers out to the people and families effected. I can't imagine going through an experience like that.


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> It was a hate crime, against lgbt+ people, I think it's pretty clear what his motives were.


So are you telling me if the club hadnt been labeled as a gay club, the attack would have been anti-cis? Oh well


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## f11 (Jun 12, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> So are you telling me if the club hadnt been labeled as a gay club, the attack would have been anti-cis? Oh well


dude stfu pls.


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> So are you telling me if the club hadnt been labeled as a gay club, the attack would have been anti-cis? Oh well



Of course, that's 100% what I'm saying, clearly.

Do you know what a hate crime is, like at all?


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## Stalfos (Jun 12, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> So are you telling me if the club hadnt been labeled as a gay club, the attack would have been anti-cis? Oh well



Yeah, because cis are such a minority group. Get a ****ing grip.


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2016)

It's fine if you didnt get what I meant but there is no need to get mad


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> It's fine if you didnt get what I meant but there is no need to get mad



You literally erased the fact that this was a clear attack on lgbt people.


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> You literally erased the fact that this was a clear attack on lgbt people.



its like saying it was an ISIS attack because the attacker was muslim


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## f11 (Jun 12, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> It's fine if you didnt get what I meant but there is no need to get mad


how can i not be mad when my people are dying and you want erase the truth :/


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## Celestefey (Jun 12, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> It's fine if you didnt get what I meant but there is no need to get mad



We did get what you mean and it's clear you usually post stuff like this to provoke some sort of reaction from other members. It's not funny or cool, no one's laughing, and you really ought to think before you say something like that especially when people are discussing a topic as sensitive as this. It's just... Rude, really.

Also, sexuality has nothing to do with gender identity.

Anyway, this is just horrific, I can't believe it's 2016 and people are still dying from hate crimes. I just honestly am in shock. I honestly start to think that we're making progress, we're becoming more accepting of other people and tolerant of people regardless of their gender identity, sexuality, race, etc etc, and then stuff like this happens and reminds us all we're far from it. People are still stuck in their old ways and it disgusts me.

To be honest, I know it's unrealistic to expect EVERYONE to agree with homosexuality and LGBT issues and to become more tolerant of people who AREN'T heterosexual, but the least I would expect is if people just treated each other respectfully regardless of our backgrounds and regardless of our beliefs. If you're homophobic then fine, just keep it to yourself and live and let live. Let other people be. They aren't harming YOU by existing, so why do you feel the need to harm them??

And imo religion doesn't matter in this instance. People are just throwing around ISIS as an excuse for this attack and to scaremonger and make everyone afraid of Muslims, even though I don't know how ISIS can claim they are Muslim because everything they do goes against Islamic belief. It's been reported that this was a hate crime and the man killed these people BECAUSE he was homophobic. There's nothing more to say to it.


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

---


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## leftTBT (Jun 12, 2016)

My heart goes out to all of the victims. It is truly terrible that so many people's lives have been claimed this week...


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

focus said:


> I FEEL YOU!!! please yall dont think all muslims are like this, this is against islamic laws anyway!! so sorry for anyone affected. i feel horrible.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...


]

can you take this **** and go away, who ****ing cares, this is no the true soctsman fallacy. they're still muslim. 50 of my people are DEAD. **** off and take your **** away, he was muslim and his religion influenced it. not all muslims are terroists but you care more about your image more than the fact my people are DEAD.

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shut the **** up about muslims for a moment and realize this is a GAY HATE CRIME. people are DEAD. stop worrying about your ****ing image for a moment and its sickening none of you even cared about the crime and posted about your image FIRST. you're all selfish bastards, **** off and you don't care for our community's deaths. you never did. you just care about your ****ing image.


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## Bowie (Jun 12, 2016)

I'm just in so much shock. 50 people dead. When is it going to end?


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## KarlaKGB (Jun 12, 2016)

obama proves once again how he is the most cowardly incompetent commander in chief in recent history. i dont think he will ever utter the words "radical islamic terrorism" while he sits in office. instead he opts to go after guns. newsflash: muslims were killing gays long before guns existed


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> ]
> 
> can you take this **** and go away, who ****ing cares, this is no the true soctsman fallacy. they're still muslim. 50 of my people are DEAD. **** off and take your **** away, _*he was muslim and his religion influenced it*_. not all muslims are terroists but you care more about your image more than the fact my people are DEAD.
> 
> ...




well thats racist


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> well thats racist



how? its literally a FACT


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> how? its literally a FACT



A FACT? No its not a fact its a stereotype but whatever


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## focus (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> ]
> 
> can you take this **** and go away, who ****ing cares, this is no the true soctsman fallacy. they're still muslim. 50 of my people are DEAD. **** off and take your **** away, he was muslim and his religion influenced it. not all muslims are terroists but you care more about your image more than the fact my people are DEAD.
> 
> ...



bruh chill. i already said i feel bad af get ur head out of ur ass for a second lmao. you're overreacting. i cant even defend my religion without being attacked now wow


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

focus said:


> bruh chill. i already said i feel bad af get ur head out of ur ass for a second lmao. you're overreacting. i cant even defend my religion without being attacked now wow



no your first post was literally about islam. you don't care. stop ****ing arguing about your religion and go somewhere else. my people are dead. literally its ****ing funny how some of your first reactions were "MUSLIMS R GOOD!" and the no true scotsman fallacy - he is muslim whether you like it or not. does he represent all muslims? no. but he is muslim and you can't erase that fact. his religion and beliefs absolutely played a role in this shooting. you care more about your image than the fact my people are literally dead.


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## Stalfos (Jun 12, 2016)

KarlaKGB said:


> newsflash: muslims were killing gays long before guns existed



So were christians. What's your point?


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## focus (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> how? its literally a FACT



yeah and its a fact you're being a drama queen right now hunty. its ok if gays defend themselves but if its a muslim its a whole different story right? lmao

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kallie said:


> no your first post was literally about islam. you don't care. stop ****ing arguing about your religion and go somewhere else. my people are dead. literally its ****ing funny how some of your first reactions were "MUSLIMS R GOOD!" and the no true scotsman fallacy - he is muslim whether you like it or not. does he represent all muslims? no. but he is muslim and you can't erase that fact. his religion and beliefs absolutely played a role in this shooting. you care more about your image than the fact my people are literally dead.



okay but i literally said i'm sorry and i feel so bad! of course my first post would be about islam because people were attacking it already! are you blind?!!!!


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

focus said:


> its ok if gays defend themselves but if its a muslim its a whole different story right? lmao



the "gays" are the ones dead right now. 50 people from the gay bar actually, and this post was about them.

The direction this post has gone is really upsetting, I shouldn't have commented after my first.


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

focus said:


> yeah and its a fact you're being a drama queen right now hunty. its ok if gays defend themselves but if its a muslim its a whole different story right? lmao
> 
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> 
> ...



you dont care about our deaths. your first reaction was to defend muslims. stop ****ing ignoring our deaths and realize this is a HATE CRIME. people are literally dead and you're telling me im overreacting? MY PEOPLE ARE DEAD. LITERALLY. MY COMRADES ARE DEAD. you never cared about our deaths and are just using us as an argument. piss off

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oh and "gays" lol nice k


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> no your first post was literally about islam. you don't care. stop ****ing arguing about your religion and go somewhere else. my people are dead. literally its ****ing funny how some of your first reactions were "MUSLIMS R GOOD!" and the no true scotsman fallacy - he is muslim whether you like it or not. does he represent all muslims? no. but he is muslim and you can't erase that fact. his religion and beliefs absolutely played a role in this shooting. you care more about your image than the fact my people are literally dead.



lol dont get me wrong but guess wha?t "your" people have done shootings and etc in their own country and religion didnt take part so


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## focus (Jun 12, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> the "gays" are the ones dead right now. 50 people from the gay bar actually, and this post was about them.
> 
> The direction this post has gone is really upsetting, I shouldn't have commented after my first.



yeah i know thats not what i meant tho if i were to be sexually harassed by a lesbian for example and then i say "omg all lesbians are rapists" then lesbians defend themselves thats 100% fine but if a muslims commits a hate crime and then some person says "all muslims are terrorists" and muslims are quick to defend themselves suddenly thats selfish and wrong?


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> lol dont get me wrong but guess wha?t "your" people have done shootings and etc in their own country and religion didnt take part so



gay people have never shot up churches? wtf are you talking about


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## focus (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> you dont care about our deaths. your first reaction was to defend muslims. stop ****ing ignoring our deaths and realize this is a HATE CRIME. people are literally dead and you're telling me im overreacting? MY PEOPLE ARE DEAD. LITERALLY. MY COMRADES ARE DEAD. you never cared about our deaths and are just using us as an argument. piss off
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> oh and "gays" lol nice k



ur comrades. jesus christ chill i care but i just dont show any emotion alright im verryyy sorry 50 gay people are dead i truly do feel terrible but like. wow


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> gay people have never shot up churches? wtf are you talking about



arent we talking about religion?


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

focus said:


> ur comrades. jesus christ chill i care but i just dont show any emotion alright im verryyy sorry 50 gay people are dead i truly do feel terrible but like. wow



no you dont care, you literally dont. you care more about your image. do i think its right to attack islam? no. but the fact is he was a muslim man whether you like it or not. he does not represent islam.

just, everyone ****ing arguing about islam go take it somewhere else. this attack is not the place for it. you literally dont understand how hurt my community is over this. its INSENSITIVE to be arguing about ****ing islam when my people are dead. go make your own thread about islam and argue there

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Gregriii said:


> arent we talking about religion?



im not religious in any way.


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## focus (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> no you dont care, you literally dont. you care more about your image. do i think its right to attack islam? no. but the fact is he was a muslim man whether you like it or not. he does not represent islam.
> 
> just, everyone ****ing arguing about islam go take it somewhere else. this attack is not the place for it. you literally dont understand how hurt my community is over this. its INSENSITIVE to be arguing about ****ing islam when my people are dead. go make your own thread about islam and argue there
> 
> ...



how do you know i dont though? do you know me? have you ever talked to me? do you even know my name for that matter? if you really knew me you'd know i care about gay rights, trans rights and all that. you would know i would always post about LGBTQA+ rights and you would know i supported all my gay/trans friends no matter what. but the moment i decided to defend islam before i say anything about the shooting you suddenly decide i dont care about anything other than my image? **** off.


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## boujee (Jun 12, 2016)

Oh boy this thread went south. Condone to the family and their loses. I would partake in but not on a mourning day. Respect people.
But, by some chance, if there's anyone here from the Orlando area, they're in urgent need of blood donations:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...-shooting-blood-donations-20160612-story.html






Or call: 888-936-6283
One blood so you can find out where to donate.
I'm probably late since time differences


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## tobi! (Jun 12, 2016)

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/or...N061216orlando-nightclub-shooting0134PMVODtop

Shooter called 911 around the time of the attack to pledge allegiance to ISIS


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

Gamzee said:


> Oh boy this thread went south. Condone to the family and their loses. I would partake in but not on a mourning day. Respect people.
> But, by some chance, if there's anyone here from the Orlando area, they're in urgent need of blood donations:
> http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...-shooting-blood-donations-20160612-story.html
> 
> ...



just know if youre gay or not you still cant donate. for some reason a rumor spread that theyre letting gay people donate but they're not.


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## boujee (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> just know if youre gay or not you still cant donate. for some reason a rumor spread that theyre letting gay people donate but they're not.




It's a speculation but it's also good to get the word out.

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Norski said:


> http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/or...N061216orlando-nightclub-shooting0134PMVODtop
> 
> Shooter called 911 around the time of the attack to pledge allegiance to ISIS




I think there was also a source where a Isis were planning on making attacks during the holy month of Ramadan.
I'll archive.


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> no you dont care, you literally dont. you care more about your image. do i think its right to attack islam? no. but the fact is he was a muslim man whether you like it or not. he does not represent islam.
> 
> just, everyone ****ing arguing about islam go take it somewhere else. this attack is not the place for it. you literally dont understand how hurt my community is over this. its INSENSITIVE to be arguing about ****ing islam when my people are dead. go make your own thread about islam and argue there
> 
> ...



oooh okay I thought you were talking about americans/catholics


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

Gamzee said:


> It's a speculation but it's also good to get the word out.
> 
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> 
> ...



im really upset about this all, all this hatred and death. and they still wont lift the ban. we cant even help our brothers dying in the hospitals. is it too much for them to just ask for a HIV testand then let gay men donate? this isnt even cool anymore. theyre dying and theres nothing the LGBT community can do for them.


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> im really upset about this all, all this hatred and death. and they still wont lift the ban. we cant even help our brothers dying in the hospitals. is it too much for them to just ask for a HIV testand then let gay men donate? this isnt even cool anymore. theyre dying and theres nothing the LGBT community can do for them.



I mean, technically we can help. The only thing really barring us from donating is a little mark on the form for registry that says "have you had sexual intercourse with a person of the same gender?"

You _could_ technically lie if you have, but you can still donate as long as you haven't participated in gay sex.

It's still stupid that you have to lie, but, there's ways around it.


----------



## pinkfawn (Jun 12, 2016)

Woke up to an alert on my phone, I live really close to Orlando. Still waiting to hear from a few friends, it's pretty unsettling. You don't think these things can happen so close to home until they do. Skimmed over this thread a little, definitely not here to get involved in a debate, just to remind people that no matter the motives, 50 people are still dead and arguing over it won't help anything. Enjoy your loved ones.


----------



## Jas0n (Jun 12, 2016)

I think everybody should:-
- Calm their ****
- De-stress their breasts
- Undo the calamity that is their mammaries
- Adjust their busts before they combust

Hakuna your tatas, everybody. Don't have a rack attack.

RIP homobuds


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

That Zephyr Guy said:


> I mean, technically we can help. The only thing really barring us from donating is a little mark on the form for registry that says "have you had sexual intercourse with a person of the same gender?"
> 
> You _could_ technically lie if you have, but you can still donate as long as you haven't participated in gay sex.
> 
> It's still stupid that you have to lie, but, there's ways around it.



i guess, but im too chicken to lie to them. feel like they would fine me if they ever found out.


----------



## boujee (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> im really upset about this all, all this hatred and death. and they still wont lift the ban. we cant even help our brothers dying in the hospitals. is it too much for them to just ask for a HIV testand then let gay men donate? this isnt even cool anymore. theyre dying and theres nothing the LGBT community can do for them.




There's a lot of ignorant people in the world. Even statements like that can make heads turns. You're upset and so am I but try to relax. If there's more disagreements in this thread it will close(this thread has a lot of potential). For the blood donation, just note that it's not just lgbt community donating. If that rumor is true them that's a hella contradiction is sending out blood in the first place. I don't live in Orlando but I have a few family and friends there who are donating(some part of the community and some aren't). It's just so spread the word. Woo-sa.


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> i guess, but im too chicken to lie to them. feel like they would fine me if they ever found out.



I don't really think the red cross has the authority to do that sort of investigation.


----------



## visibleghost (Jun 12, 2016)

i don't think i have a lot to add to this thread, but i just wanted to say that this is horrible af and my thoughts are w/ everyone who is affected by this. it's sickening that ppl do that kind of ****


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## enchilada (Jun 12, 2016)

Donald Trump just won this election.


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

Gamzee said:


> There's a lot of ignorant people in the world. Even statements like that can make heads turns. You're upset and so am I but try to relax. If there's more disagreements in this thread it will close(this thread has a lot of potential). For the blood donation, just note that it's not just lgbt community donating. If that rumor is true them that's a hella contradiction is sending out blood in the first place. I don't live in Orlando but I have a few family and friends there who are donating(some part of the community and some aren't). It's just so spread the word. Woo-sa.



yeah im just angry at what happened and the fact people are arguing about gun control and islam. i really dont feel like this is the place for it so i just angry people are using this event as a soapbox to spread whatever their agenda is. 

i do hope no one else dies in the hospital, but if theyre really lacking in blood donations they should just lift the ban potentialyl for now, because if anyone would donate in this crisis it would be the lgbt community.


----------



## pinkfawn (Jun 12, 2016)

To all the people concerned with donating, there's a hugely overwhelmingly positive response. Lines in Orlando are 3+ hours long to donate at several different donation centers. They are mainly looking for AB, O+ and O-. I don't know if anyone else is in the area but if you are try and spread this.


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## boujee (Jun 12, 2016)

I was able to get ahold of the shooter information. Wowie


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

accioliz said:


> To all the people concerned with donating, there's a hugely overwhelmingly positive response. Lines in Orlando are 3+ hours long to donate at several different donation centers. They are mainly looking for AB, O+ and O-. I don't know if anyone else is in the area but if you are try and spread this.



also please if you cant donate bring food and drinks for those donating, they're running out


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## pinkfawn (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> also please if you cant donate bring food and drinks for those donating, they're running out



Thank you for informing me, I didn't know they were running low on food and drinks. Was there mention of any particular bank needing them, or what kind of food and drink? I can make a run to the store and drive into Orlando within the half hour or so.


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## Melchoir (Jun 12, 2016)

I'm tired of the fact that it was a homophobic hate crime being left out of news articles. Over fifty people are dead for simply being who they are. I'm tired.


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

accioliz said:


> Thank you for informing me, I didn't know they were running low on food and drinks. Was there mention of any particular bank needing them, or what kind of food and drink? I can make a run to the store and drive into Orlando within the half hour or so.



no specific bank, but if its hot and people are waiting in 3+ hour lines i can imagine any bank thats crowded would need food and drinks.


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## Bunnilla (Jun 12, 2016)

You know whats the worst part for me? I live in a city around Orlando


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## Beary (Jun 12, 2016)

((i'm just gonna point out that isis has such a warped version of islam that it isn't even the same religion anymore))

i'm so upset about this... this is a _hate crime_ against people who did nothing but be who they are.
it's sick and horrible. i hope nothing else happens to my people, we've suffered enough


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## pinkfawn (Jun 12, 2016)

ShayminSkies said:


> You know whats the worst part? I live in a city around Orlando



I mean I live close to Orlando too but I'd still argue that the worst part is, ya know, 50 people lost their lives in an act of senseless violence.


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## Bunnilla (Jun 12, 2016)

Edited. I meant worst part for me sorry lol


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## boujee (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> also please if you cant donate bring food and drinks for those donating, they're running out




I'll be sure to tell my fam this.

Also, about what I said earlier:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-islamicstate-idUSKCN0YC0OG

Something about already placing a precedent:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Ramadan_attacks

ISIS has also repeatedly stated that if their followers can't travel to Syria, they should try to kill as many "kafir" in their home countries as possible. Americans at a gay nightclub sure seem like a great target for that purpose.


Has anyone seen that heartbreaking text?


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## Bunnilla (Jun 12, 2016)

Man, why it always ISIS


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## pinkfawn (Jun 12, 2016)

ShayminSkies said:


> Edited. I meant worst part for me sorry lol



No worries, just thought it was a strange thing to say at the time.


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## Xerolin (Jun 12, 2016)

this got a lot of posts.
fast

Im one of those people who believe the shootings are fake, in order for gun control. Seriously, there are shootings every other week.


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## tearypastel (Jun 12, 2016)

Gamzee said:


> I'll be sure to tell my fam this.
> 
> Also, about what I said earlier:
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-islamicstate-idUSKCN0YC0OG
> ...



oh yes, the one with the mother texting her son? god, all this is horrible. imaging getting texts like these.

news article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-son-sent-mother-Orlando-terror-unfolded.html

- - - Post Merge - - -



Xerolin said:


> this got a lot of posts.
> fast



care to contribute layla?


----------



## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

Gamzee said:


> I'll be sure to tell my fam this.
> 
> Also, about what I said earlier:
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-islamicstate-idUSKCN0YC0OG
> ...



wow this is absolutely sickening. 

im honestly scared to go to pride this summer.


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## Red Cat (Jun 12, 2016)

Anyone who is saying they are shocked is lying. This is the new normal in America. The terrorist may have been an ISIS sympathizer, but instead of using one of their s***ty homemade bombs, he killed those people the American way: with an NRA-approved assault rifle which probably enabled him to kill 3-4 times a many people as he would have been able to with any other weapon. But at least the victims are getting plenty of "thoughts and prayers".


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## RainbowCherry (Jun 12, 2016)

Xerolin said:


> this got a lot of posts.
> fast
> 
> Im one of those people who believe the shootings are fake, in order for gun control. Seriously, there are shootings every other week.



but there's corpses and gunwounds

what did you think happened then though?


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jun 12, 2016)

Xerolin said:


> this got a lot of posts.
> fast
> 
> Im one of those people who believe the shootings are fake, in order for gun control. Seriously, there are shootings every other week.



If this is your idea of what it means to be a "****poster", you need to learn when and where it's appropriate. Please get out of this thread.


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## boujee (Jun 12, 2016)

In more heartwarming news, this is a line of people who showed up to donate blood to the victims:


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## seliph (Jun 12, 2016)

Xerolin said:


> Im one of those people who believe the shootings are fake, in order for gun control. Seriously, there are shootings every other week.



yeah 53 people wounded themselves enough to be hospitalized just for gun control, wtf


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

Xerolin said:


> this got a lot of posts.
> fast
> 
> Im one of those people who believe the shootings are fake, in order for gun control. Seriously, there are shootings every other week.



are you frigging serious? theres 50 people dead and 53 in the hospital. are you saying my brothers deaths were fake?


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## debinoresu (Jun 12, 2016)

idk if someones posted this link before but i guess its good to keep it circulating if they have, you can donate to the victims directly here and if you want proof its a legitimate place to donate heres a link to their post on facebook confirming it. also if you search around you can find direct donation links to the victims on gofundme but this is the main confirmed place to mass donate i could find quickly.

this stuff is such a wakeup call. whenever this sorta stuff happens i feel legitimate regret to be a part of the lgbt community... i know i cant choose what i am, but it makes me regret ever having found myself and trying to be myself at all. it makes me want to go back and just decide to repress everything. id probably be very depressed, but i dont know if id be at a higher health risk being myself or suppressing myself really at this point


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## strawberrywine (Jun 12, 2016)

nvm


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## Red Cat (Jun 12, 2016)

debinoresu said:


> this stuff is such a wakeup call. whenever this sorta stuff happens i feel legitimate regret to be a part of the lgbt community... i know i cant choose what i am, but it makes me regret ever having found myself and trying to be myself at all. it makes me want to go back and just decide to repress everything. id probably be very depressed, but i dont know if id be at a higher health risk being myself or suppressing myself really at this point



Straight people get killed by gun violence every day. This was a targeted attack against LGBT individuals, but anyone can be at the wrong place at the wrong time regardless of who they are. So you shouldn't be scared of being part of the LGBT community.


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## Bunnilla (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> are you frigging serious? theres 50 people dead and 53 in the hospital. are you saying my brothers deaths were fake?



 Your family members got hurt?


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

ShayminSkies said:


> One of your family members got hurt?



no im saying brothers as in a shared sense of family and community with gay men since im apart of the lgbt community


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## debinoresu (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> Straight people get killed by gun violence every day. This was a targeted attack against LGBT individuals, but anyone can be at the wrong place at the wrong time regardless of who they are. So you shouldn't be scared of being part of the LGBT community.



thanks, i realize that, but people arent being killed at a higher percentage for being straight. this just gives me a wakeup call of the general judgement and treatment i can and will face publicly, not necessarily murder entirely. im scared, in general, of the poor treatment the community faces daily, whether its physically violent or verbal. its easy to ignore it around my friends who are very accepting of me, but it happens all the time, constantly. i didnt exclusively mean physical murder


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## Bunnilla (Jun 12, 2016)

Oh XD im so stupid, I havent read the previous posts


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> Straight people get killed by gun violence every day. This was a targeted attack against LGBT individuals, but anyone can be at the wrong place at the wrong time regardless of who they are.* So you shouldn't be scared of being part of the LGBT community.*



You're dumb as hell if you think people shouldn't be scared after this.

This was an attack deliberately targeted at LGBT people. They could have done the shooting anywhere else, but they did it in a gay bar.

Gay people are still seen by some people as a thing to mass murder. In a place such as America.

That's terrifying.


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## Bunnilla (Jun 12, 2016)

Its sad really, all of this
Hopefully maybe my family can donate blood


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

*Update:
*
Blood banks in Orlando are full, but they're asking people to donate by making appointments in the upcoming days.


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## Red Cat (Jun 12, 2016)

debinoresu said:


> thanks, i realize that, but people arent being killed at a higher percentage for being straight. this just gives me a wakeup call of the general judgement and treatment i can and will face publicly, not necessarily murder entirely. im scared, in general, of the poor treatment the community faces daily, whether its physically violent or verbal. its easy to ignore it around my friends who are very accepting of me, but it happens all the time, constantly. i didnt exclusively mean physical murder



If it makes you feel better, the LGBT community will probably get more empathy now since they were the victims of the 2nd worst terrorist attack in U.S. history. Obviously that doesn't make the shooting a good thing, but it might reduce some of the hostility from some fundamentalist Christians since they might see the LGBT community as the lesser of two evils compared to ISIS.


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## Reindeer (Jun 12, 2016)

tearypastel said:


> aside from the analyzing aspect of it:
> 
> it's actually made me so ill thinking about who that could have been. it makes me ill thinking about who it was! somebody's gonna wake up and go 'my son is dead because of a person with a gun that disliked him.' somebody's gonna go 'where's dad?' and somebody's gonna have to reply 'he's in heaven.' somebody's going to have to face the realisation that their boyfriend is dead. their wife is dead. their cousin, neighbour, their repairman, the person they once sold that chair to is dead. because of a person who couldn't control themself and had to shoot an entire club up. it's a hate crime, and a travesty, and if some old white guy with a billion bucks behind him doesn't realise that 'hmmm, maybe gun laws are a bit too lenient here' then i will never have faith in humanity again.





Red Cat said:


> Anyone who is saying they are shocked is lying. This is the new normal in America. The terrorist may have been an ISIS sympathizer, but instead of using one of their s***ty homemade bombs, he killed those people the American way: with an NRA-approved assault rifle which probably enabled him to kill 3-4 times a many people as he would have been able to with any other weapon. But at least the victims are getting plenty of "thoughts and prayers".


Stricter gun control laws would not have prevented this. The guy was a security guard, he had permits because of his job.



BangoTheElf said:


> ?Mir Seddique, Mateen?s father told NBC News, ?this has nothing to do with religion.? Seddique said his son got angry when he saw two men kissing in Miami a couple of months ago and thinks that may be related to the shooting.
> ?We are saying we are apologizing for the whole incident. We weren?t aware of any action he is taking. We are in shock like the whole country,? Seddique said.?
> 
> Nothing to do with religion :/ A hate crime is a hate crime. It sucks that in Orlando gay people weren't allowed to donate blood at first in fear of HIV. To even donate there were strict condition, like not having sex in a year. After this, the restrictions will be put back in place, which is pretty dehumanizing.


Reminds me of when Salah Abdeslam's mother said that he wouldn't hurt a fly. Then it came to light that he was one of the actual planners of the November Paris attacks (along with his brother and Abaaoud), and he was also one of the planners of the attacks in Brussels in March. That's 163 dead to his name, with many more wounded, all from a guy that wouldn't hurt a fly.

I sympathize with the terrorists' parents in situations like these, but due to their sorrow their words are also skewed to favor their offspring. I find it hard to take their words at face value because of it.


----------



## tobi! (Jun 12, 2016)

Gamzee said:


> It's a speculation but it's also good to get the word out.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



I remember reading somewhere (I believe voat) that ISIS was telling followers that if they commit a lot of terrorist attacks, they'll get "extra benefits".


----------



## boujee (Jun 12, 2016)

Norski said:


> I remember reading somewhere (I believe voat) that ISIS was telling followers that if they commit a lot of terrorist attacks, they'll get "extra benefits".




Makes me not want to go the NYC pride parade.


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## tobi! (Jun 12, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> Attack happened during Ramadan, after ISIS asked for terrorist attacks during this month (there already were attacks in Kazakhstan, Jordan, and Turkey). Omar Mateen is a known ISIS sympathizer. And unless I'm mistaken, ISIS is a terrorist organization that follows a version of the Muslim ideology, an organization that has killed many homosexuals due to this ideology. His religion and affiliation were going to be scrutinized from the moment he decided to carry out this attack.
> 
> And while I agree that Muslims shouldn't all be seen as some large group of terrorists, and that those that attack Muslims based on such simplistic notions should be punished, that doesn't mean we should conceal the truth just so we won't hurt a few feelings.



Criticizing a religion for being counterproductive to gay/trans rights is not the same as hating all people in said religion.


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## Red Cat (Jun 12, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> Stricter gun control laws would not have prevented this. The guy was a security guard, he had permits because of his job.



Maybe the handgun, but the assault rifle? What kind of security guard needs an assault rifle?


----------



## boujee (Jun 12, 2016)

I thought this matched the thread earlier:


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## tobi! (Jun 12, 2016)

Gamzee said:


> Makes me not want to go the NYC pride parade.



http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-gay-pride-la-weapons-20160612-snap-story.html
Police just arrested a man who was carrying weapons and explosives. He said he was headed towards the LA Gay Pride festival.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Gamzee said:


> I thought this matched the thread earlier:


redpanels did this too:


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## Beary (Jun 12, 2016)

honestly people who are saying "straight people get shot everyday" should just go move to antarctica 
idfc about straight people at the moment

*my people are dead and dying*


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## Cascade (Jun 12, 2016)

I heard about this news on my TV :c Praying for the families who lost their relatives

Now i want to get out of here in Florida ><


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## Bunnilla (Jun 12, 2016)

At least the people who died can have the peace of the world not judging them...


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## Reindeer (Jun 12, 2016)

Norski said:


> Criticizing a religion for being counterproductive to gay/trans rights is not the same as hating all people in said religion.


I don't see how you got that from my post. The last line was criticizing the minority of people that generalize and (sometimes physically) attack Muslims due to an event like this. That doesn't include those who criticize Islam, or any other religion for that matter. Otherwise I'd be criticizing myself, which seems just a tad odd.



Red Cat said:


> Maybe the handgun, but the assault rifle? What kind of security guard needs an assault rifle?


Good point. Looking into it a bit more, the permit he got was only for concealed carry, as Florida doesn't actually need a permit to own a gun.


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## Red Cat (Jun 12, 2016)

Beary said:


> honestly people who are saying "straight people get shot everyday" should just go move to antarctica
> idfc about straight people at the moment
> 
> *my people are dead and dying*



But... that's just a fact... people of all genders, sexual orientations, ethnicities, and religions get shot every day. I know this was a targeted attack, but are lots of targeted attacks against different groups of people and some attacks which are not targeted but are just as deadly. They weren't killed because they were gay, they were killed because the shooter is a terrorist and if he didn't specifically kill 50 gay people, he would have found another group of people to kill. Those people are "my people" too because they are Americans who were killed by a terrorist.


----------



## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> So you shouldn't be scared of being part of the LGBT community.



50 lgbt people just got killed in a hate crime, but if you're part of the lgbt community you shouldn't be scared?


----------



## visibleghost (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> But... that's just a fact... people of all genders, sexual orientations, ethnicities, and religions get shot every day. I know this was a targeted attack, but are lots of targeted attacks against different groups of people and some attacks which are not targeted but are just as deadly. They weren't killed because they were gay, they were killed because the shooter is a terrorist and if he didn't specifically kill 50 gay people, he would have found another group of people to kill. Those people are "my people" too because they are Americans who were killed by terrorist.



pls go away, the shooter was a giant homophobe. those people were killed because they were gay. pls stop


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## tobi! (Jun 12, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> I don't see how you got that from my post. The last line was criticizing the minority of people that generalize and (sometimes physically) attack Muslims due to an event like this. That doesn't include those who criticize Islam, or any other religion for that matter. Otherwise I'd be criticizing myself, which seems just a tad odd.
> 
> 
> Good point. Looking into it a bit more, the permit he got was only for concealed carry, as Florida doesn't actually need a permit to own a gun.


I replied to the wrong person sry


----------



## Beary (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> But... that's just a fact... people of all genders, sexual orientations, ethnicities, and religions get shot every day. I know this was a targeted attack, but are lots of targeted attacks against different groups of people and some attacks which are not targeted but are just as deadly. They weren't killed because they were gay, they were killed because the shooter is a terrorist and if he didn't specifically kill 50 gay people, he would have found another group of people to kill. Those people are "my people" too because they are Americans who were killed by terrorist.



you having fun erasing a hate crime buddy
why do you think they targeted a GAY NIGHTCLUB
why do you think they did it during PRIDE MONTH

- - - Post Merge - - -



FleshyBro said:


> 50 lgbt people just got killed in a hate crime, but if you're part of the lgbt community you shouldn't be scared?



oh we're scared


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

Beary said:


> oh we're scared



I know, but Red Cat was saying we shouldn't be, because "people of all genders, sexual orientations, ethnicities, and religions get shot every day."


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 12, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> 50 lgbt people just got killed in a hate crime, but if you're part of the lgbt community you shouldn't be scared?





visibleghost said:


> pls go away, the shooter was a giant homophobe. those people were killed because they were gay. pls stop





Beary said:


> you having fun erasing a hate crime buddy
> why do you think they targeted a GAY NIGHTCLUB
> why do you think they did it during PRIDE MONTH
> 
> ...



So wait a second guys. Are we blaming the shooter or the victims? If you say the victims died because they were gay, then it kind of sounds like you are blaming them for being gay. If you say the victims died because the shooter is a terrorist, then that is blaming the terrorist. That's the point I was trying to make.


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## Beary (Jun 12, 2016)

@ people who think this is fake:
please realize what gigantic idiots you are


----------



## visibleghost (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> So wait a second guys. Are we blaming the shooter or the victims? If you say the victims died because they were gay, then it kind of sounds like you are blaming them for being gay. If you say the victims died because the shooter is a terrorist, then that is blaming the terrorist. That's the point I was trying to make.



LMAOO of course we're blaming the shooter wtf?? ............ the victims died because someone shot them. the person who shot them was a huge ****ing homophobe and chose his victims because they were gay.


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## Beary (Jun 12, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> I know, but Red Cat was saying we shouldn't be, because "people of all genders, sexual orientations, ethnicities, and religions get shot every day."



random killings, maybe. but the people at the nightclub were targeted
are straight people ever shot _particularly_ because they are straight? no



Red Cat said:


> So wait a second guys. Are we blaming the shooter or the victims? If you say the victims died because they were gay, then it kind of sounds like you are blaming them for being gay. If you say the victims died because the shooter is a terrorist, then that is blaming the terrorist. That's the point I was trying to make.



sure, turn my words around on me
i'm gay. i can't help that. but oh my god, you're being stupid
nobody chooses to be gay. i am not blaming the victims. 
i am blaming the shooter.


----------



## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> So wait a second guys. Are we blaming the shooter or the victims? If you say the victims died because they were gay, then it kind of sounds like you are blaming them for being gay. If you say the victims died because the shooter is a terrorist, then that is blaming the terrorist. That's the point I was trying to make.



The shooter, obviously? But they were targeted because they were lgbt (or in a gay bar), that's not their fault in the slightest. We're not blaming the victims for being victims of a hate crime, but it seems like you're erasing the fact that it was that, a hate crime.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Beary said:


> random killings, maybe. but the people at the nightclub were targeted
> are straight people ever shot _particularly_ because they are straight? no



I know, I'm on your side, seriously. Maybe you misunderstood or I didn't make my point clear. I'm fully aware that it was a malicious hate crime.


----------



## Jeremy (Jun 12, 2016)

Hi all,

It's fine if you disagree with someone's opinion, but you must do so in a respectful manner.

You can read more about this in our rules: http://www.belltreeforums.com/showthread.php?94559-The-Bell-Tree-Rules-amp-Guidelines

Thank you.


----------



## Bunnilla (Jun 12, 2016)

Beary said:


> random killings, maybe. but the people at the nightclub were targeted
> are straight people ever shot _particularly_ because they are straight? no
> 
> 
> ...



Actually you do choose to be gay. I have a friend who was straight then became gay. Its the way you are raised and the way of your personality and how you think.

Also people stop hating on Red Cat. He's just saying his opinion and we should respect that.


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## Reindeer (Jun 12, 2016)

Beary said:


> you having fun erasing a hate crime buddy
> why do you think they targeted a GAY NIGHTCLUB
> why do you think they did it during PRIDE MONTH


I think it's this and the fact that LGBT has been a hotly debated topic in the US for the last few months. The Paris attacks were to show that people going out to have fun weren't safe from terrorism. Using that same logic, this attack is to show that those in the LGBT community aren't safe, even in a place where they should be.


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

ShayminSkies said:


> Actually you do choose to be gay. I have a friend who was straight then became gay. Its the way you are raised and the way of your personality and how you think.



Please no, not here.


----------



## That Zephyr Guy (Jun 12, 2016)

ShayminSkies said:


> Actually you do choose to be gay. I have a friend who was straight then became gay. Its the way you are raised and the way of your personality and how you think.



Nobody chooses to be gay. If it were that easy then people wouldn't willingly opt to get disowned by their families or, yknow, shot with a crowd full of other people.


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## Buttonsy (Jun 12, 2016)

Feeling pretty messed up and angry over this. I guess it's a reminder that LGBT safe spaces still aren't all that safe in a world with homophobia and we need to work harder than ever before. I hope this at least wakes some people up to realizing that it's not okay to be homophobic or transphobic at all, that holding prejudices leads to innocent people dying. I hope that the people who died's friends and family will be okay. I also hope that people don't use the shooters religion as an excuse to be islamophobic.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 12, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> The shooter, obviously? But they were targeted because they were lgbt (or in a gay bar), that's not their fault in the slightest. We're not blaming the victims for being victims of a hate crime, but it seems like you're erasing the fact that it was that, a hate crime.



Yes, it was a hate crime. But you can't stop hate crimes by making the targets something other than what they are. That's why from a solution based perspective you have to focus on the potential criminals because you can't assign a bodyguard to every single black, Hispanic, female, Jewish, Muslim, or LGBT person to protect them.


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## Beary (Jun 12, 2016)

ShayminSkies said:


> Actually you do choose to be gay. I have a friend who was straight then became gay. Its the way you are raised and the way of your personality and how you think.
> 
> Also people stop hating on Red Cat. He's just saying his opinion and we should respect that.



first of all: no
second of all: ??????????


----------



## piichinu (Jun 12, 2016)

im gay and isis knows who my family in syria is and hates us im next

edit: for clarification, isis based in syria, not outside of it.


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> Yes, it was a hate crime. But you can't stop hate crimes by making the targets something other than what they are. That's why from a solution based perspective you have to focus on the potential criminals because you can't assign a bodyguard to every single black, Hispanic, female, Jewish, Muslim, or LGBT person to protect them.



We shouldn't have to assign bodyguards, because there shouldn't be hate crimes (like this one), exactly. I honestly have no clue what you're getting at here. The victims of _this particular crime_, were victims because they were lgbt.


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## Bunnilla (Jun 12, 2016)

Whatever. Just act like I never said anything...


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## Buttonsy (Jun 12, 2016)

ShayminSkies said:


> Actually you do choose to be gay. I have a friend who was straight then became gay. Its the way you are raised and the way of your personality and how you think.
> 
> Also people stop hating on Red Cat. He's just saying his opinion and we should respect that.



People who originally felt they were straight either have fluid sexualities (which some people have and some people do not), meaning that it changes over time, and some people experienced compulsory heterosexuality, which basically means that they tricked themselves into thinking that they are straight because it's what was expected of them. People do not choose to be gay, otherwise, there would be a lot less gay people, I know so many gay people who wish they could be straight so that they wouldn't have to deal with homophobia.


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## Beary (Jun 12, 2016)

Buttonsy said:


> People who originally felt they were straight either have fluid sexualities (which some people have and some people do not), meaning that it changes over time, and some people experienced compulsory heterosexuality, which basically means that they tricked themselves into thinking that they are straight because it's what was expected of them. People do not choose to be gay, otherwise, there would be a lot less gay people, I know so many gay people who wish they could be straight so that they wouldn't have to deal with homophobia.



well said.


----------



## seliph (Jun 12, 2016)

ShayminSkies said:


> Actually you do choose to be gay. I have a friend who was straight then became gay. Its the way you are raised and the way of your personality and how you think.



Are you serious lmao why would people choose to be part of such a hated group oh my god

Your friend probably just realized he was gay and was never straight


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## Bunnilla (Jun 12, 2016)

WHATEVER. JUST ACT LIKE I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ...


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## Red Cat (Jun 12, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> We shouldn't have to assign bodyguards, because there shouldn't be hate crimes (like this one), exactly. I honestly have no clue what you're getting at here. The victims of _this particular crime_, were victims because they were lgbt.



There shouldn't be crimes like this, but there are. Welcome to Earth. All I was getting at in my original post is that if you are LGBT, you shouldn't lock yourself in a bomb shelter just because you have a higher risk of getting assaulted or killed because that's no way to live, nor should you pretend to be straight to avoid a hate crime.


----------



## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> There shouldn't be crimes like this, but there are. Welcome to Earth. All I was getting at in my original post is that if you are LGBT, you shouldn't lock yourself in a bomb shelter just because you have a higher risk of getting assaulted or killed because that's no way to live, nor should you pretend to be straight to avoid a hate crime.



It's called being scared, and that's perfectly reasonable and understandable.


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## Buttonsy (Jun 12, 2016)

I think it's important to note that homophobia and transphobia are both what started this shooting and are largely built from ignorance, and so we are calling out ignorance so that people can learn how their prejudices are untrue. Because we need the world to be a safer place for LGBT people. We don't want this to happen again, we don't want to be next, but unless things get better, our safety is at stake.


----------



## Bunnilla (Jun 12, 2016)

Buttonsy said:


> I think it's important to note that homophobia and transphobia are both what started this shooting and are largely built from ignorance, and so we are calling out ignorance so that people can learn how their prejudices are untrue. Because we need the world to be a safer place for LGBT people. We don't want this to happen again, we don't want to be next, but unless things get better, our safety is at stake.



Well said


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2016)

ShayminSkies said:


> WHATEVER. JUST ACT LIKE I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ...


Yeah thats what happens when people highly disagree with you
#relatable


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## Red Cat (Jun 12, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> It's called being scared, and that's perfectly reasonable and understandable.



It is. And everyone is on edge now because that's the way people think when there is a terrorist attack. Do you think I'm sitting here thinking "I'm straight so I don't have to worry about a terrorist attack because they only kill gay people."? Terrorism isn't just a problem for the LGBT community; it's a problem for the entire world. So I'm scared too, but I'm not going to change my life because what is going to happen is going to happen and all I can do is hope it doesn't happen to me. So just do the same things today and tomorrow as you did yesterday because nothing has really changed in the big picture.


----------



## That Zephyr Guy (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> It is. And everyone is on edge now because that's the way people think when there is a terrorist attack. Do you think I'm sitting here thinking "I'm straight so I don't have to worry about a terrorist attack because they only kill gay people."? Terrorism isn't just a problem for the LGBT community; it's a problem for the entire world. So I'm scared too, but I'm not going to change my life because what is going to happen is going to happen and all I can do is hope it doesn't happen to me. So just do the same things today and tomorrow as you did yesterday because nothing has really changed in the big picture.



Quick question: Do you actually read anything anybody types or do you just respond to whatever you want to think they're saying?


----------



## seliph (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> It is. And everyone is on edge now because that's the way people think when there is a terrorist attack. Do you think I'm sitting here thinking "I'm straight so I don't have to worry about a terrorist attack because they only kill gay people."? Terrorism isn't just a problem for the LGBT community; it's a problem for the entire world. So I'm scared too, but I'm not going to change my life because what is going to happen is going to happen and all I can do is hope it doesn't happen to me. So just do the same things today and tomorrow as you did yesterday because nothing has really changed in the big picture.



Who the hell said terrorism is only a problem for the LGBT community???? Who where when

Or are yu gonna come back and say you "trolled" everybody and that you were "****posting"


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 12, 2016)

That Zephyr Guy said:


> Quick question: Do you actually read anything anybody types or do you just respond to whatever you want to think they're saying?





nvll said:


> Who the hell said terrorism is only a problem for the LGBT community???? Who where when
> 
> Or are yu gonna come back and say you "trolled" everybody and that you were "****posting"



We're all taking each other's words out of context. It's a human thing. That and the English language sucks for clearly communicating ideas.


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## Kaiserin (Jun 12, 2016)

I heard about this a while ago, such a shame really. Prayers goes to the victims family and friends. What Omar did wss unacceptable, being homophobic doesn't mean for you to just go up to a random gay club at start shooting people! He should burn in hell for what he did.


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## seliph (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> We're all taking each other's words out of context. It's a human thing. That and the English language sucks for clearly communicating ideas.



By the sound of it you don't understnad that people who are LGBT+ have more to fear than straight people do and it's perfectly reasonable for us to be scared of leaving the house after this because people still target us specifically for being lgbt.


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## Bunnilla (Jun 12, 2016)

nvll said:


> By the sound of it you don't understnad that people who are LGBT+ have more to fear than straight people do and it's perfectly reasonable for us to be scared of leaving the house after this because people still target us specifically for being lgbt.



You are also gay? Wow so many gay people on TBT i did not know


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## seliph (Jun 12, 2016)

ShayminSkies said:


> You are also gay? Wow so many gay people on TBT i did not know



I mean yah I happen to be but LGBT+ isn't synonymous with "gay"


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2016)

ShayminSkies said:


> You are also gay? Wow so many gay people on TBT i did not know



this page is actually lgbelltreeforums


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> It is. And everyone is on edge now because that's the way people think when there is a terrorist attack. Do you think I'm sitting here thinking "I'm straight so I don't have to worry about a terrorist attack because they only kill gay people."? Terrorism isn't just a problem for the LGBT community; it's a problem for the entire world. So I'm scared too, but I'm not going to change my life because what is going to happen is going to happen and all I can do is hope it doesn't happen to me. So just do the same things today and tomorrow as you did yesterday because nothing has really changed in the big picture.



Yes most people will be scared after this, regardless of wheather they are lgbt or not, that's what terrorist attacks do, evoke fear in the vast majority of people. (I never once said lgbt people are the only people who are victims of terrorism.. wtf)

I'm not sure if you really understand, but this particular attack happened in a gay bar, one of the very, very few safe spaces for lgbt people. Many members of the community are now terrified to go to pride, terrified to be openly lgbt in public, terrified even just to go out. I get that you're scared too, but right now the majority of lgbt people are terrified, and feel as if we have no choice but to change our actions to avoid violence and that's perfectly understandable, please don't say that it isn't.



Red Cat said:


> We're all taking each other's words out of context. It's a human thing. That and the English language sucks for clearly communicating ideas.



It seems to me like you're still saying what you've been saying this whole time, along the lines of "lgbt people are not suffering more than anyone else and shouldn't be scared"


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## RainbowCherry (Jun 12, 2016)

It's unfortunate. Honestly when I see a shooting, it's 5 or so people (Not that that's awful), but fifty!? ****... Earlier in the thread, I saw he was a security guard. Did he plan it...?


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## Reindeer (Jun 12, 2016)

RainbowCherry said:


> It's unfortunate. Honestly when I see a shooting, it's 5 or so people (Not that that's awful), but fifty!? ****... Earlier in the thread, I saw he was a security guard. Did he plan it...?


I don't think that's why he got the security guard job, if that's what you mean. He got the job in 2007, I doubt he's been planning this attack for 9 years. He was investigated by the FBI in 2013 and 2014, maybe that's when he started radicalizing.


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## vexnir (Jun 12, 2016)

Really upsetting to hear. So many lives lost, this is a tragedy. So many terrorist attacks in the recent years all over the world, very worrying.

On a side note, I hope that acts like these won't go encouraging violence towards LGBT people in other places of the world. I mean, in my country, LGBT charities have been vandalised 5 times already this year and we're only 6 months in. Since the conservative right wing government came to power here, it pretty much opened a can of worms for nationalists here, and my country is generally rather conservative and quite religious, so LGBT people aren't the most welcome here. With the violence that has been happening here recently, I sincerely hope that acts like the one we're discussing won't be a green light for people in my country to do more bad stuff. I want to live my life without my mother constantly nagging me to hide my identity because she is scared for my life.

BTW weird coincidence, but this shooting happened today and yesterday we had our annual Equality Parade (it's our version of pride parade, but it's more of an LGBT rights protest) in my country. Like I said, just a coincidence most likely, but a damn creepy one.


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## Celestefey (Jun 12, 2016)

vexnir said:


> Really upsetting to hear. So many lives lost, this is a tragedy. So many terrorist attacks in the recent years all over the world, very worrying.
> 
> On a side note, I hope that acts like these won't go encouraging violence towards LGBT people in other places of the world. I mean, in my country, LGBT charities have been vandalised 5 times already this year and we're only 6 months in. Since the conservative right wing government came to power here, it pretty much opened a can of worms for nationalists here, and my country is generally rather conservative and quite religious, so LGBT people aren't the most welcome here. With the violence that has been happening here recently, I sincerely hope that acts like the one we're discussing won't be a green light for people in my country to do more bad stuff. I want to live my life without my mother constantly nagging me to hide my identity because she is scared for my life.



It's hard to say whether this will trigger other similar acts across the world but I sure hope not. The fact of the matter is that the US does not have very strict gun control regulations. It's very easy to obtain a gun, unlike in other countries around the world. Owning guns and weapons and such only perpetuates violence. Yes, people are going to kill others and we can't ALWAYS stop it, as much as we may want to, but if we make it harder for people to obtain firearms then it might mean we can prevent more deaths. It baffles me how so many people are being murdered in mass shootings like this and yet still no change in gun control. It's appalling. I just hope that this is the last thing like this to happen again.

Who knows? Had the US created stricter gun control regulations then the shooting may not have even happened. A person should not be killed because of their sexuality, their gender identity, their race, or anything like that. :\ 

The fact of the matter is, more people are becoming open-minded so we can only hope we're just starting to take steps in the right direction. There's nothing wrong in discovering your sexuality or realising that you aren't "heterosexual", it doesn't make you any less valuable or important. It's just a part of who you are and that's all it is.

Edit: Btw, about the coincidence, I believe it's because it was Pride weekend so there were a lot of Pride parades happening across the world. I think. I could be wrong... I know it's usually around this time of year.


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

The news here (BBC news, UK) barely even mentioned the shooting, just quickly skimmed over it and went back to reporting on the queens birthday. How sad.


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## Red Cat (Jun 12, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> The news here (BBC news, UK) barely even mentioned the shooting, just quickly skimmed over it and went back to reporting on the queens birthday. How sad.



It's not news because it happens about once a month here. If they covered all the mass shootings here, there wouldn't be much time to cover other stuff. Here is the typical U.S. news cycle for a month:



Spoiler



Mass shooting
Trump
Trump
Trump
Mass shooting
Trump
Trump
Trump
Missing plane
Trump
Trump
Trump
Mass shooting
Trump
Trump
Trump


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> The news here (BBC news, UK) barely even mentioned the shooting, just quickly skimmed over it and went back to reporting on the queens birthday. How sad.



They barely talk about rapes, murders, etc yes it's been a tragedy and sorry if this is rude but we are talking about 100 injuried, it's nothing that has affected the United States too much??


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> It's not news because it happens about once a month here. If they covered all the mass shootings here, there wouldn't be much time to cover other stuff. Here is the typical U.S. news cycle for a month:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Eh, but you think they would report it since it's the biggest US shooting since Sandy Hook.


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## Reindeer (Jun 12, 2016)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

The shooter's father expressed his support for the Taliban, and did some bizarre stuff in videos posted on the internet (like posing as the president of Afghanistan). Actual insanity.


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> They barely talk about rapes, murders, etc yes it's been a tragedy and sorry if this is rude but we are talking about 100 injuried, it's nothing that has affected the United States too much??



They do talk about them a lot. I'm sure this is one of the biggest mass shootings in America, at least in a long time. Not only that, but it was a hate crime against lgbt people at a time where lgbt rights are a topical discussion. It should definitely get a mention, surely reporting on these people's lost lives is more important than reporting on the queens birthday, _again_.


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## jiny (Jun 12, 2016)

it's horrible that 50 people were killed in this tragedy

my condolences to the family & friends of the victims.


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## piichinu (Jun 12, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/
> 
> The shooter's father expressed his support for the Taliban, and did some bizarre stuff in videos posted on the internet (like posing as the president of Afghanistan). Actual insanity.



lmao what a pig


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## Beary (Jun 12, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> They barely talk about rapes, murders, etc yes it's been a tragedy and sorry if this is rude but we are talking about 100 injuried, it's nothing that has affected the United States too much??



it is rude
this is a huge shooting and a hate crime and your erasure of it isn't helping


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## KarlaKGB (Jun 12, 2016)

Celestefey said:


> It's hard to say whether this will trigger other similar acts across the world but I sure hope not. The fact of the matter is that the US does not have very strict gun control regulations. It's very easy to obtain a gun, unlike in other countries around the world. Owning guns and weapons and such only perpetuates violence. Yes, people are going to kill others and we can't ALWAYS stop it, as much as we may want to, but if we make it harder for people to obtain firearms then it might mean we can prevent more deaths. It baffles me how so many people are being murdered in mass shootings like this and yet still no change in gun control. It's appalling. I just hope that this is the last thing like this to happen again.
> 
> Who knows? Had the US created stricter gun control regulations then the shooting may not have even happened. A person should not be killed because of their sexuality, their gender identity, their race, or anything like that. :\
> 
> ...


newsflash. france has very strict gun laws, and it didnt stop anything there. this is an issue of a toxic culture stuck in the dark ages that believes gays should be killed. the sooner people realise that and start talking about it, the better.


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## Dreamy Luigi (Jun 12, 2016)

i still dont comprehend how sad your life must be to feel the need to maul down people with 1 obscure difference. It's actually inhumanity at it's greatest. 

now watch as lawmakers send "prayers" and sit on their ass and do nothing.


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2016)

Dreamy Luigi said:


> i still dont comprehend how sad your life must be to feel the need to maul down people with 1 obscure difference. It's actually inhumanity at it's greatest.
> 
> now watch as lawmakers send "prayers" and sit on their ass and do nothing.



They can't do too much, though. More gun controls? Punishment by death? It won't help a all since humans will keep having their free will... and yes, even though media changed and homophobia was erased completely, there would still be that old school guy who hates  homosexuals... you can't delete someones opinion or thoughts no matter if they are bad or unethical


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

KarlaKGB said:


> newsflash. france has very strict gun laws, and it didnt stop anything there. this is an issue of a toxic culture stuck in the dark ages that believes gays should be killed. the sooner people realise that and start talking about it, the better.



Yes it was a homophobic attack, and homophobic attacks will sadly happen regardless of gun laws, and that needs to be paid attention to, it needs to change. However, gun control laws are a start, inface they're well overdue.


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## Beary (Jun 12, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> They can't do too much, though. More gun controls? Punishment by death? It won't help a all since humans will keep having their free will... and yes, even though media changed and homophobia was erased completely, there would still be that old school guy who hates  homosexuals... you can't delete someones opinion or thoughts no matter if they are bad or unethical



i really don't get your point?


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## Dreamy Luigi (Jun 12, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> More gun controls?


That would be a start, yes.


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2016)

Beary said:


> i really don't get your point?



I meant its hard to avoid things like these, because people will always get a way to make chaos, it's their free will


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> They can't do too much, though. More gun controls? Punishment by death? It won't help a all since humans will keep having their free will... and yes, even though media changed and homophobia was erased completely, there would still be that old school guy who hates  homosexuals... you can't delete someones opinion or thoughts no matter if they are bad or unethical



What? People definitely can make a change.


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> What? People definitely can make a change.



Yes, most of them, but not all, and that "not all" is the problem


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

Gregriii said:


> Yes, most of them, but not all, and that "not all" is the problem



So they're will always be bad people, so we shouldn't even try? The fact that there will always be homophobes, or always be terrorists is irrelevant. It is also possible to change opinions, people's opinions change all the time.


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2016)

FleshyBro said:


> So they're will always be bad people, so we shouldn't even try? The fact that there will always be homophobes, or always be terrorists is irrelevant. It is also possible to change opinions, people's opinions change all the time.


 No, I didnt mean that. Yes we should try and we should improve, etc, but if something like that happens you can't blame the others for "not enough control"

Andd the opinions change but most of them remain, we've been living for more tan 2000 years and racism still a thing


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## inkling (Jun 12, 2016)

waking up to this news was awful. i just can't believe it. i can't believe what all those people went through that were there that night, and i feel so sorry for all the lives lost.

Its been said over and over again but something needs to happen with these gun laws. There are so many crazy people out there and honestly it doesn't take much for a lot of these people to snap and think its okay to do whatever they're doing.

This is a tragic loss and I don;t want to make it politcial. But how many lives do we need to lose before this country wakes up and realizes something is wrong about how easy it is for these psychos to obtain such ridiculous weapons. also i know first hand the gun laws in fl are freaking ridiculous. its like the wild wild west out there


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

gun control wouldnt have stopped this crime, he already was a security officer. unless your plan is to start racially profiling any brown guy who happens to own a gun, that was the only way anyone could've stopped him. unless the government knew he had ties to ISIS, but i doubt they did.


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## Aali (Jun 12, 2016)

Just found out about this. It's so sad. 


And in so disappointed in all the people who assume it had something to do with religion or ISIS

Really? Shame on you.


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## tobi! (Jun 12, 2016)

Aali said:


> Just found out about this. It's so sad.
> 
> 
> And in so disappointed in all the people who assume it had something to do with religion or ISIS
> ...



But is did have to do with ISIS...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-gay-nightclub-shooting-live-blog/index.html
The shooter called 911, pledged allegiance to ISIS and mentioned the Boston Marathon bombers.


----------



## piichinu (Jun 12, 2016)

Aali said:


> Just found out about this. It's so sad.
> 
> 
> And in so disappointed in all the people who assume it had something to do with religion or ISIS
> ...



does it not have to do with religion and ISIS?????


----------



## inkling (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> gun control wouldnt have stopped this crime, he already was a security officer. unless your plan is to start racially profiling any brown guy who happens to own a gun, that was the only way anyone could've stopped him. unless the government knew he had ties to ISIS, but i doubt they did.



r u joking?


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

inkling said:


> r u joking?



what? its true, gun control wouldnt have stopped him, he was not mentally ill and was a security officer.


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## zoetrope (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> what? its true, gun control wouldnt have stopped him, he was not mentally ill and was a security officer.



Something tells me that he had some mental problems.  Sane people don't kill 50+ people.


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## oath2order (Jun 12, 2016)

zoetrope said:


> Something tells me that he had some mental problems.  Sane people don't kill 50+ people.



Or maybe he was just motivated to do it by his religious beliefs.


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

zoetrope said:


> Something tells me that he had some mental problems.  Sane people don't kill 50+ people.



he was not thought to be mentally ill before hand. therefore, he wouldve been allowed to own a gun. plenty of shooters arent mentally ill and are motivated by hatred.


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jun 12, 2016)

inkling said:


> r u joking?



The permit to own a gun came with his job. Even with more gun control he could have acquired the weapon in question and gone on his spree without much effort.


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

here are some of the pictures of the victims so we can remember them.
































RIP Edward, Stanley, Luis, Juan, Eric, Peter and Luis.

It was latin night so most of the victims are latino as well.


----------



## Bunnilla (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> here are some of the pictures of the victims so we can remember them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's really sad, in the pictures they seemed very happy


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## zoetrope (Jun 12, 2016)

oath2order said:


> Or maybe he was just motivated to do it by his religious beliefs.



Are they mutually exclusive, though?


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## inkling (Jun 12, 2016)

says the racist person.

i mean this is a hate crime, but that reply to me was completely racist


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> anyway while you idiots choose to take this tragedy and argue about gun control, here are some of the pictures of the victims so we can remember them.



How can we remember some people we never knew who they were until they were already dead?


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## zoetrope (Jun 12, 2016)

inkling said:


> says the racist person.
> 
> i mean this is a hate crime, but that reply to me was completely racist



Was this in response to me?  I have no idea how you got that correlating radicalization and mental illness is racism.


----------



## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> How can we remember some people we never knew who they were until they were already dead?



are you really going to be picky about my word choice? thats not the point. the lgbt community knew them. even if we dont know each other i still feel a shared connection with them because the fact is we share a community together.


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## Fleshy (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> How can we remember some people we never knew who they were until they were already dead?



Picking at wording now? Not appropriate.


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## inkling (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> wtf are you talking about lmfao ive said nothing racist, i* said unless you want america to be racist to brown people that wouldve been thw only way to stop him* ,because he wouldnt have been stopped anyway. i didnt say i want brown people to be racially profiled, idiot.




How in the world are you making this connection!? 

How can you even talk to anybody when all you want to listen to is yourself? LOL. 
anyways



kallie said:


> gun control wouldnt have stopped this crime, he already was a security officer. unless your plan is to start racially profiling any brown guy who happens to own a gun, that was the only way anyone could've stopped him. unless the government knew he had ties to ISIS, but i doubt they did.


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

inkling said:


> How in the world are you making this connection!?
> 
> How can you even talk to anybody when all you want to listen to is yourself? LOL.
> anyways



weird because everyone seems to be agreeing with me judging from the amount of upvotes ive been getting today
im saying this dude met all the gun control requirements. he was not mentally ill or presumed to be before. he was a functioning american. he was a security officer. all would've let him own a gun.

im saying there wouldve been NO way for them to justify using gun control on him unless they racially profiled him. and they wont because thats WRONG.


----------



## zoetrope (Jun 12, 2016)

Is it possible that gun laws need to be changed?  He was interviewed 3 times by the FBI.  Someone like that probably shouldn't have access to guns.


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## Red Cat (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> the lgbt community knew them.



Um... no. I'm pretty sure 99.9% of LGBT Americans did not know any of the victims. Just because you share a common trait does not mean you knew who they were.


----------



## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

inkling said:


> omg everything you say is ridiculous. like so incoherent nothing makes sense jebus christmas



Ok? and? the fact is im mourning this loss and im absolutely allowed to be angry at everyone taking this thread to argue about ****in i dunno, GUN CONTROL when there are people dead. muslim this, guncontrol that, the point is now is not the time to be using your Mic Dot Com politics and arguing whether or not we should have stricter gun control, whether we should ban muslims or something, its literally all so insensitive and in respect for the victims, i refuse to be arguing about this tradegy any longer with people who want to use this to further their agenda about gun control.


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## inkling (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> Ok? and? the fact is im mourning this loss and im absolutely allowed to be angry at everyone taking this thread to argue about ****in i dunno, GUN CONTROL when there are people dead. muslim this, guncontrol that, the point is now is not the time to be using your Mic Dot Com politics and arguing whether or not we should have stricter gun control, whether we should ban muslims or something, its literally all so insensitive and in respect for the victims, i refuse to be arguing about this tradegy any longer with people who want to use this to further their agenda about gun control.



i didnt say gun control. i have many gay friends and i am bi. why are you yelling at me?


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## zoetrope (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> Ok? and? the fact is im mourning this loss and im absolutely allowed to be angry at everyone taking this thread to argue about ****in i dunno, GUN CONTROL when there are people dead. muslim this, guncontrol that, the point is now is not the time to be using your Mic Dot Com politics and arguing whether or not we should have stricter gun control, whether we should ban muslims or something, its literally all so insensitive and in respect for the victims, i refuse to be arguing about this tradegy any longer with people who want to use this to further their agenda about gun control.


Isn't it respecting the victims to try to ensure this never happens again?


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## radical6 (Jun 12, 2016)

inkling said:


> i didnt say gun control. i have many gay friends and i am bi. why are you yelling at me?



because you're intentionally trying to piss me off? you're the one who took my words out of context and misunderstood me when i replied gun control would've done nothing to stop him. the dude was interviewed so many times and they probably had a suspecting feeling he was a radical ISIS dude but they had no evidence. 

the point is, no matter how hard we crack down on radicals, they will always find a way to escape the system and kill people.

there is no point to be arguing about gun control or islam or racism or WHATEVER THE ****. im literally TIRED of people arguing about gun control and islam and racism every ****ing day. this thread is no exception to this it seems, and im already seeing people on here use this attack to spread their agenda.


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## zoetrope (Jun 12, 2016)

kallie said:


> because you're intentionally trying to piss me off? you're the one who took my words out of context and misunderstood me when i replied gun control would've done nothing to stop him. the dude was interviewed so many times and they probably had a suspecting feeling he was a radical ISIS dude but they had no evidence.
> 
> the point is, no matter how hard we crack down on radicals, they will always find a way to escape the system and kill people.
> 
> there is no point to be arguing about gun control or islam or racism or WHATEVER THE ****. im literally TIRED of people arguing about gun control and islam and racism every ****ing day. this thread is no exception to this it seems, and im already seeing people on here use this attack to spread their agenda.



Ok.  When IS the correct time to talk about gun control?  Can we only talk about it when nobody is getting shot?  Or is it more relevant after 100+ people are injured or killed?


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## Oblivia (Jun 12, 2016)

I'm going to close this temporarily for a bit of cleanup and so people can calm down.  Please remember to be respectful and take a few minutes away from the computer if you find yourself so heated that you're unable to respond to others without directly insulting them or becoming overly aggressive.

Also, it'd be great if people could be just a _bit_ more mindful about what's being posted here.  Of course everyone's entitled to their own opinions about this and any other issue, but a lot of people lost their lives in a horrible way and I think a bit of sensitivity is more than warranted.


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## Oblivia (Jun 12, 2016)

Okay, let's all try a bit harder to be respectful this time around.  I don't want to close this down permanently as I see that this horrible incident has (very understandably) affected a lot of the users here and I don't think it's fair to deny them the right to discuss it, but the arguing and insults need to stop if it's to remain open.

Expanding on my previous post, there's always an appropriate venue to voice certain opinions about things.  Please try to keep this in mind going forward and exercise a bit of empathy when people are upset about something that really hits home for them.  Thanks.


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## Bowie (Jun 12, 2016)

Again, super devastated by this incident. It's incredibly shocking and my heart goes out to the families of all those lost lives. Such a tragedy.


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jun 12, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> Um... no. I'm pretty sure 99.9% of LGBT Americans did not know any of the victims. Just because you share a common trait does not mean you knew who they were.




You're being ridiculously petty. Remembrance is a sign of solidarity. It reminds us of what's happened and remembering the victims puts less emphasis on the shooter and more on the tragedy itself. It's an act of recovery from a community in grief. Unless you're part of that community, you come of as very ignorant telling us otherwise.







zoetrope said:


> Ok.  When IS the correct time to talk about gun control?  Can we only talk about it when nobody is getting shot?  Or is it more relevant after 100+ people are injured or killed?



You can talk about gun control after the mourning period is over. Right now we focus on letting people recover from the shock.


When people immediately jump to discussions about gun control, it comes off as callous and uncaring - as though you don't actually care about what's transpired and you're only using it as a means to further an agenda. 


You can use it as an argument for/against gun control, just give it a while. Goddamn.


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## Jared:3 (Jun 12, 2016)

I'm surprised she re opened the thread lol


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## Corrie (Jun 12, 2016)

Better gun control needs to happen. Guns don't need to be banned fully but when someone can easily get a rifle like that, you know something is wrong. 

I feel like nothing is going to happen in the USA involving better gun control. They mention it all the time but nothing actually happens and more innocent people die the same way. Very frustrating.


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jun 12, 2016)

Corrie said:


> Better gun control needs to happen. Guns don't need to be banned fully but when someone can easily get a rifle like that, you know something is wrong.
> 
> I feel like nothing is going to happen in the USA involving better gun control. They mention it all the time but nothing actually happens and more innocent people die the same way. Very frustrating.



The guy was a security guard and his job gave him a permit that allowed him access to his weapons. Gun control wouldn't have done anything.

We've gone over this like 5 times now. Please read the thread.


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## Jared:3 (Jun 12, 2016)

I feel like some people are overreacting on this thread, I understand those lives but at least YOU weren't there

- - - Post Merge - - -



That Zephyr Guy said:


> The guy was a security guard and his job gave him a permit that allowed him access to his weapons. Gun control wouldn't have done anything.
> 
> We've gone over this like 5 times now. Please read the thread.


Can you stop being so rude? Your really pissing me off by commenting unnecessary posts, maybe the person didn't know


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jun 12, 2016)

Jared:3 said:


> I feel like some people are overreacting on this thread, I understand those lives but at least YOU weren't there
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



How am I being rude. I literally asked them to read the thread. If they didn't know they should have read the thread. I've only ever been polite since the thread has been reopened.


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## seliph (Jun 12, 2016)

Jared:3 said:


> I feel like some people are overreacting on this thread, I understand those lives but at least YOU weren't there



You're a kid so I'm going easy on you but that doesn't mean anything. This shooting is a huge reminder that people want us dead, and that some people will actually set out to harm us. This shooting is a reminder that despite how far LGBT+ people have come we _somehow_ still are far from safe.

Not to mention, there's these things called sympathy and empathy. You might want to look them up.


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## Jared:3 (Jun 12, 2016)

That Zephyr Guy said:


> How am I being rude. I literally asked them to read the thread. If they didn't know they should have read the thread. I've only ever been polite since the thread has been reopened.



Ok but read your last two pots on your comments on the last page, I feel like your wanting to argue here as your starting already, and you came off very rude, think about what your saying

- - - Post Merge - - -



nvll said:


> You're a kid so I'm going easy on you but that doesn't mean anything. This shooting is a huge reminder that people want us dead, and that some people will actually set out to harm us. This shooting is a reminder that despite how far LGBT+ people have come we _somehow_ still are far from safe.
> 
> Not to mention, there's these things called sympathy and empathy. You might want to look them up.


Yeah, I shouldn't have put that


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## seliph (Jun 12, 2016)

Jared:3 said:


> Ok but read your last two pots on your comments on the last page, I feel like your wanting to argue here as your starting already, and you came off very rude, think about what your saying



He has every right to want to argue with some posts on this thread. It's a very heavy topic. You on the other hand, are adding nothing to the discussion with the "you're being rude" posts. If you think someone's being too hostile, report it.


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## Jared:3 (Jun 12, 2016)

nvll said:


> He has every right to want to argue with some posts on this thread. It's a very heavy topic. You on the other hand, are adding nothing to the discussion with the "you're being rude" posts. If you think someone's being too hostile, report it.


I did report it, but did you not read the posts?

- - - Post Merge - - -

I'm not saying that he can't argue he's just being very rude about what he says


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## Bwazey (Jun 12, 2016)

It's sad, but true.

LGBT+ are far from being safe from attacks. If anything, we're even less safe. As we get more rights, more people get angry and decide to take evil actions. All we can do is educate the our young people to accept it and hope the homophobic people will slowly disappear as time goes on. It's a shame they'll always be around though. But decreasing their numbers would help us feel safer.


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## seliph (Jun 12, 2016)

Jared:3 said:


> I did report it, but did you not read the posts?



I did, and given the situation as well as how other people are responding, I don't think he's being rude at all. He never outright attacked anyone so I don't know what you're seeing.


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## Jared:3 (Jun 12, 2016)

Bwazey said:


> It's sad, but true.
> 
> LGBT+ are far from being safe from attacks. If anything, we're even less safe. As we get more rights, more people get angry and decide to take evil actions. All we can do is educate the our young people to accept it and hope the homophobic people will slowly dwindle down. It's a shame they'll always be around though. But decreasing their numbers would help us feel safer.


As for that I agree I get made fun of every day, I got a death threat before, but my mother got security around our property

- - - Post Merge - - -



nvll said:


> I did, and given the situation as well as how other people are responding, I don't think he's being rude at all. He never outright attacked anyone so I don't know what you're seeing.



Yes but he didn't have to comment on those as they got told off by oblivia


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## MorningStar (Jun 12, 2016)

I don't usually cry, but I sobbed like a child when I read this on MSN news this morning. The worst mass shooting in the history of the US. I won't get into politics, religion, or gun-control here, since everyone I know is turning it into that, but... Man, this was horrific. I don't even have words for this anymore.


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## Jared:3 (Jun 12, 2016)

MorningStar said:


> I don't usually cry, but I sobbed like a child when I read this on MSN news this morning. The worst mass shooting in the history of the US. I won't get into politics, religion, or gun-control here, since everyone I know is turning it into that, but... Man, this was horrific. I don't even have words for this anymore.



With me living in Florida my gateed community has gotten increased security, and now you need permission and ID along with other info, and more small police cars I laugh at them lol


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## Corrie (Jun 13, 2016)

Bwazey said:


> It's sad, but true.
> 
> LGBT+ are far from being safe from attacks. If anything, we're even less safe. As we get more rights, more people get angry and decide to take evil actions. All we can do is educate the our young people to accept it and hope the homophobic people will slowly disappear as time goes on. It's a shame they'll always be around though. But decreasing their numbers would help us feel safer.



This is what I view will have to happen. Older people set in their ways will not change; that's been fairly obvious by now. I feel like children are more accepting than adults and that fact in itself is really sad.


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## Jared:3 (Jun 13, 2016)

Corrie said:


> This is what I view will have to happen. Older people set in their ways will not change; that's been fairly obvious by now. I feel like children are more accepting than adults and that fact in itself is really sad.


Yeah I'm gay, I just can't help that I am, I find guys attractive, I'm just not into woman like most guys are


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## Corrie (Jun 13, 2016)

Jared:3 said:


> Yeah I'm gay, I just can't help that I am, I find guys attractive, I'm just not into woman like most guys are



And hey, there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. It's sad that people make a big deal out of something that literally does not have anything to do with them at all.


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## Mega_Cabbage (Jun 13, 2016)

I normally don't care about LGBT+ and how they live their lives, but the fact that some medical facilities won't let them donate blood when a mass shooting recently occurred has me irked.


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## Bwazey (Jun 13, 2016)

Mega_Cabbage said:


> I normally don't care about LGBT+ and how they live their lives, but the fact that some medical facilities won't let them donate blood when a mass shooting recently occurred has me irked.



Boy do I love society.


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## Corrie (Jun 13, 2016)

Serious question, I'm just confused: why do people seem to assume that Muslims and Islams are the same? I literally hear them getting grouped together and I'm sitting here like, they aren't the same... right?


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## zoetrope (Jun 13, 2016)

That Zephyr Guy said:


> When people immediately jump to discussions about gun control, it comes off as callous and uncaring - as though you don't actually care about what's transpired and you're only using it as a means to further an agenda.
> 
> 
> You can use it as an argument for/against gun control, just give it a while. Goddamn.



Yes, people who want less gun violence are uncaring.


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jun 13, 2016)

Corrie said:


> Serious question, I'm just confused: why do people seem to assume that Muslims and Islams are the same? I literally hear them getting grouped together and I'm sitting here like, they aren't the same... right?



Muslims are followers of the religion Islam.

- - - Post Merge - - -



zoetrope said:


> Yes, people who want less gun violence are uncaring.



Never said you weren't, just said what you're coming across as.


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## seliph (Jun 13, 2016)

zoetrope said:


> Yes, people who want less gun violence are uncaring.



OK BUT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT MOURNING LGBT+ LIVES NOT ABOUT GUN VIOLENCE LAWS THANKS PLEASE MAYBE MAKE ANOTHER THREAD FOR THAT 

ALSO NO ONE SAID YOU DIDN'T CARE IT'S JUST THAT'S WHAT IT COMES OFF AS


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## Jared:3 (Jun 13, 2016)

nvll said:


> OK BUT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT MOURNING LGBT+ LIVES NOT ABOUT GUN VIOLENCE LAWS THANKS PLEASE MAYBE MAKE ANOTHER THREAD FOR THAT
> 
> ALSO NO ONE SAID YOU DIDN'T CARE IT'S JUST THAT'S WHAT IT COMES OFF AS



Ok but gun laws can be in this, as unfortunately this can't be stop because the guy had access to the gun


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## zoetrope (Jun 13, 2016)

That Zephyr Guy said:


> Never said you weren't, just said what you're coming across as.



Are you old enough to remember Matthew Shepperd?  People were calling for hate crime legislation in the immediate aftermath.  Why is it that the night club shooting is any different?  Is it because people are too attached to their guns?

Everybody was concerned about security and air travel in the moments following 9/11.  Was that inappropriate too?

Edit:  this is all getting too bizarre.  Y'all can go back to policing how others should feel after tragedies.


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jun 13, 2016)

Jared:3 said:


> Ok but gun laws can be in this, as unfortunately this can't be stop because the guy had access to the gun



The guy had access to guns anyway because he has a permit from his job as a security guard that would allow him to obtain the weapon even with gun control laws.



You called me rude last time I said this - figured I'd remind you.


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## seliph (Jun 13, 2016)

Jared:3 said:


> Ok but gun laws can be in this, as unfortunately this can't be stop because the guy had access to the gun



Ok but no
103 ****ing lgbt people were shot can we just have a thread dedicated to them without making it about gun laws or "well_ I _don't feel threatened" or anything but how to this day people can't love people without someone wanting them dead


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## Jared:3 (Jun 13, 2016)

That Zephyr Guy said:


> The guy had access to guns anyway because he has a permit from his job as a security guard that would allow him to obtain the weapon even with gun control laws.
> 
> 
> 
> You called me rude last time I said this - figured I'd remind you.


That isn't what I was calling you rude for, you came off with an attitude and saying quote on quote we went over this 5 times already please read the thread, maybe the person didn't understand, you can't expect a person to know everything


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## seliph (Jun 13, 2016)

zoetrope said:


> Are you old enough to remember Matthew Shepperd?  People were calling for hate crime legislation in the immediate aftermath.  Why is it that the night club shooting is any different?  Is it because people are too attached to their guns?
> 
> Everybody was concerned about security and air travel in the moments following 9/11.  Was that inappropriate too?



ok go ahead and call for gun laws but maybe don't turn a thread about victims of homophobia into whether or not gun policies should be stricter idk that's just what i think


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## Jared:3 (Jun 13, 2016)

nvll said:


> Ok but no
> 103 ****ing lgbt people were shot can we just have a thread dedicated to them without making it about gun laws or "well_ I _don't feel threatened" or anything but how to this day people can't love people without someone wanting them dead



I'm not disagreeing with you, but this has to do with gun laws in someways, I understand they were shot OK!. I'm gay, they might as well shoot me to


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## zoetrope (Jun 13, 2016)

nvll said:


> ok go ahead and call for gun laws but maybe don't turn a thread about victims of homophobia into whether or not gun policies should be stricter idk that's just what i think



This thread is for discussing a terror attack.  It's not a memorial.  Please don't make it so this thread gets locked again.


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## Jared:3 (Jun 13, 2016)

nvll said:


> ok go ahead and call for gun laws but maybe don't turn a thread about victims of homophobia into whether or not gun policies should be stricter idk that's just what i think



That's what YOU think, but maybe it ties into gun laws, we're not turning this thread into something else, I never said anything wrong but I get screams at me for brining up gun laws


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## seliph (Jun 13, 2016)

zoetrope said:


> This thread is for discussing a terror attack.  It's not a memorial.  Please don't make it so this thread gets locked again.


ok then discuss the attack, im just so sick of discussions about this turning into one of two things which is 1. religion and 2. gun laws

- - - Post Merge - - -



Jared:3 said:


> That's what YOU think, but maybe it ties into gun laws, we're not turning this thread into something else, I never said anything wrong but I get screams at me for brining up gun laws



I never screamed at you


----------



## Jared:3 (Jun 13, 2016)

zoetrope said:


> This thread is for discussing a terror attack.  It's not a memorial.  Please don't make it so this thread gets locked again.





nvll said:


> ok then discuss the attack, im just so sick of discussions about this turning into one of two things which is 1. religion and 2. gun laws
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



I know, I meant I got several potpsts over saying gun laws, and we are discussing the attack, and I think gun laws has something to do with it OK?


----------



## zoetrope (Jun 13, 2016)

nvll said:


> I never screamed at you



No, but you screamed at me.  I just want you to think about how someone is potentially feeling before you accuse them of pushing an agenda or being heartless.  I want people to stop being murdered.  What's so bad about that?  50+ people were murdered last night.  That upsets me terribly and I'd like to do something to put an end to it.


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## Jared:3 (Jun 13, 2016)

Jared:3 said:


> I know, I meant I got several potpsts over saying gun laws, and we are discussing the attack, and I think gun laws has something to do with it OK?


Sorry for my spelling my phone corrects my words LOL


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## seliph (Jun 13, 2016)

*GUN LAWS WOULDN'T HAVE DONE ANYTHING 'CAUSE THE GUY WAS A SECURITY GUARD AND THEREFORE HAS LEGAL ACCESS TO A GUN ANYWAYS

 DOES IT NEED TO BE TYPED LIKE THIS FOR IT TO BE UNDERSTANDABLE*

- - - Post Merge - - -



zoetrope said:


> No, but you screamed at me.  I just want you to think about how someone is potentially feeling before you accuse them of pushing an agenda or being heartless.  I want people to stop being murdered.  What's so bad about that?  50+ people were murdered last night.  That upsets me terribly and I'd like to do something to put an end to it.



When'd I say you were pushing an agenda or being heartless my guy


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## zoetrope (Jun 13, 2016)

nvll said:


> *GUN LAWS WOULDN'T HAVE DONE ANYTHING 'CAUSE THE GUY WAS A SECURITY GUARD AND THEREFORE HAS LEGAL ACCESS TO A GUN ANYWAYS
> 
> DOES IT NEED TO BE TYPED LIKE THIS FOR IT TO BE UNDERSTANDABLE*



Ok.  You're clearly not paying attention to what I'm typing.  Have a nice day.


----------



## Jared:3 (Jun 13, 2016)

nvll said:


> *GUN LAWS WOULDN'T HAVE DONE ANYTHING 'CAUSE THE GUY WAS A SECURITY GUARD AND THEREFORE HAS LEGAL ACCESS TO A GUN ANYWAYS
> 
> DOES IT NEED TO BE TYPED LIKE THIS FOR IT TO BE UNDERSTANDABLE*


Your being so immature, but the guy wasn't the only one, and this isn't a memorial thread, it's for discussing what happened ok know it all


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## seliph (Jun 13, 2016)

zoetrope said:


> Ok.  You're clearly not paying attention to what I'm typing.  Have a nice day.



I was responding to Jared thanks


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## radical6 (Jun 13, 2016)

Jared:3 said:


> Your being so immature, but the guy wasn't the only one, and this isn't a memorial thread, it's for discussing what happened ok know it all



wasn't the only one? what? right now unless you believe the rumors, he is the only confirmed shooter.


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## Jared:3 (Jun 13, 2016)

nvll said:


> I was responding to Jared thanks



Your gonna blame it on me now? Do you understand there can be ways of dealing with this now since this happened and everyone is aware?

- - - Post Merge - - -



kallie said:


> wasn't the only one? what? right now unless you believe the rumors, he is the only confirmed shooter.



Oh, yeah rumors suck, I thought there were more involved


----------



## That Zephyr Guy (Jun 13, 2016)

zoetrope said:


> Are you old enough to remember Matthew Shepperd?  People were calling for hate crime legislation in the immediate aftermath.  Why is it that the night club shooting is any different?  Is it because people are too attached to their guns?
> 
> Everybody was concerned about security and air travel in the moments following 9/11.  Was that inappropriate too?
> 
> Edit:  this is all getting too bizarre.  Y'all can go back to policing how others should feel after tragedies.




There's a difference between 1 dude getting murdered and 50 people getting murdered with another 50 injured on top of that. _This is the biggest shooting in the history of America._



By all means, you can use this event as evidence for gun control - I never said you couldn't. No really, read this twice because everyone seems to be ignoring that fact: *You can use it as evidence for gun control.* Just give us as a community some time to grieve because almost a decade after the murder of Mathew Shepard we apparently still have such open violence against us.


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## seliph (Jun 13, 2016)

Jared:3 said:


> Your gonna blame it on me now? Do you understand there can be ways of dealing with this now since this happened and everyone is aware?



How is that blaming anybody I was literally just saying I was talking to you, not her, oh my god


----------



## Jared:3 (Jun 13, 2016)

nvll said:


> How is that blaming anybody I was literally just saying I was talking to you, not her, oh my god



So what, it sounded to me like you accused both of us


----------



## seliph (Jun 13, 2016)

Jared:3 said:


> So what, it sounded to me like you accused both of us



accused you of what...


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## That Zephyr Guy (Jun 13, 2016)

Jared:3 said:


> So what, it sounded to me like you accused both of us




Take a break from this thread for a moment please. The more you post the less sense you're making and I think it's because you might be getting worked up. It'll do us all some good if you relax a bit.

Nobody in this thread has accused you of anything.


----------



## Jared:3 (Jun 13, 2016)

nvll said:


> accused you of what...



Of saying ****, this isn't a memorial, I can say what I want, I get a bunch of posts stating my opinion on this, and gun laws has something to do with it, can't you accept that it involves this?


----------



## zoetrope (Jun 13, 2016)

Hey everybody, remember when this thread was about discussing a terrorist attack and not a thread for attacking each other over stupid stuff?


----------



## Bwazey (Jun 13, 2016)

It's unwise to jump to conclusions and act so rashly upon them. Please take this up in PM if it's really troubling you. Or better yet, just report the comment and try to not add fuel to the fire please. 

Thank yew


----------



## seliph (Jun 13, 2016)

Jared:3 said:


> Of saying ****, this isn't a memorial, I can say what I want, I get a bunch of posts stating my opinion on this, and gun laws has something to do with it, can't you accept that it involves this?



I accused you of... saying ****? What does that even mean everyone here is saying some ****

Anyways refer to Zeph's posts on the previous page 'cause I'm done talking about guns


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## Bwazey (Jun 13, 2016)

zoetrope said:


> Hey everybody, remember when this thread was about discussing a terrorist attack and not a thread for attacking each other over stupid stuff?



This ^


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## seliph (Jun 13, 2016)

zoetrope said:


> Hey everybody, remember when this thread was about discussing a terrorist attack and not a thread for attacking each other over stupid stuff?



Remember when you said you were done, twice


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## Jared:3 (Jun 13, 2016)

nvll said:


> I accused you of... saying ****? What does that even mean everyone here is saying some ****
> 
> Anyways refer to Zeph's posts on this page 'cause I'm done talking about guns


Your the one who keeps on saying **** like guns having nothing to do with this but it does, how did the guy kill those people by using a gun problem solved, and maybe form now on gun laws can protect this, like I said everyone is aware of it now and I'm sure they'll figure out a solution to this


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## Trent the Paladin (Jun 13, 2016)

Locking since it's getting out of hand


----------

