# Sages Replaced...?



## Bulerias (Jan 16, 2007)

Hey guys,

I just wanted your opinion on a matter; how would you react if the staff decides to remove the Sage program IN FAVOR of the Hall of Fame?  I doubt that Hall of Famers would have a board to call their own, but they would have their names on the site, along with some other stuff.  This would definitely eliminate some of the current problems with the Sage program.

Thoughts?


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## Gabby (Jan 16, 2007)

I guess so...


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## DarthGohan1 (Jan 16, 2007)

I think we ought to see how the HoF works out before we do this...


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## Tyler (Jan 16, 2007)

I have to agree with Darth.


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## Bulerias (Jan 16, 2007)

This is just some preliminary discussion, regardless of whether the HoF works out or not.


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## Tyler (Jan 16, 2007)

Also Bul if you didn't read Basts post in the sage board I'll bring it up here. 

I think we should reform the whole sage program like start from scratch with no sages and work our way back. Maybe the staff could get second thoughts about everything.


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## Zelandonia (Jan 16, 2007)

No. 

Look at it like this: There are very few chances for an average member to become a Staff, but there's always a chance that they might become a Sage.
Sages have been around longer and they already have respect/public opnions toward them created.
HoF is new, and untested.

I don't think that we should get rid of the Sage program because of a few recent problems.


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## Monkey09 (Jan 16, 2007)

OddCrazyMe said:
			
		

> Also Bul if you didn't read Basts post in the sage board I'll bring it up here.
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> I think we should reform the whole sage program like start from scratch with no sages and work our way back. Maybe the staff could get second thoughts about everything.


 I do agree with that almost completly there are some sages that should stay or be guarenteed sagdom later on.


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## Bastoise99 (Jan 16, 2007)

*I say reform the system! We want reform, not it's complete destruction!*


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## Zelandonia (Jan 16, 2007)

Reform is a good idea to me. I still stand by what I said eariler, though


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## Bulerias (Jan 16, 2007)

Bastoise99 said:
			
		

> *I say reform the system! We want reform, not it's complete destruction!*


 This is reform in a sense.  The Sage program will basically become the HoF.


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## Jeremy (Jan 16, 2007)

Zelandonia said:
			
		

> There are very few chances for an average member to become a Staff, but there's always a chance that they might become a Sage.


 Not so true anymore


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## Tyler (Jan 16, 2007)

But after a while almost all members will become sages. Unless we work on changing hall of fame to like every other month.


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## dragonflamez (Jan 16, 2007)

PRetty much all the Sages will make the HoF the first time, so this really doesnt change anything.


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## Grawr (Jan 16, 2007)

OddCrazyMe said:
			
		

> But after a while almost all members will become sages. Unless we work on changing hall of fame to like every other month.


 Yeah...

I say keep it how it is...but then again I don't really understand the Hall of Fame just yet...


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## Bulerias (Jan 16, 2007)

dragonflamez said:
			
		

> PRetty much all the Sages will make the HoF the first time, so this really doesnt change anything.


 Indeed it does.  The HoF will not actually give anyone any additional rights, all that it will do is give inductees a feeling of... how do I put it... basically it will put them in a better light because of all of the good stuff that they did.


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## Grawr (Jan 16, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 But that's what making someone a sage does too, right?


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## Zelandonia (Jan 16, 2007)

But don't you think that some members might not need to be on staff, but should get extra rights for being an honored member?


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## dragonflamez (Jan 16, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 But HoF = a reason to make normal members feel special
Sages become normal members.

Sages, being 1337 for the most part, are automatic favorites for the HoF

Sages get voted for HoF

Normal Members feel bad again.


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## Bulerias (Jan 16, 2007)

Gengar said:
			
		

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 No, some of the current Sages say that they need certain rights, and we wouldn't have this problem if we eliminated the Sage program in favor of the HoF.


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## UltraByte (Jan 16, 2007)

A good idea, but like someone said, not too long after this, and everyone'll be a HoFamer. I suggest you only add someone if they did something amazing and changed TBT.


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## Grawr (Jan 16, 2007)

And...it'll also make the sages feel bad if they are no longer sages...


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## Bulerias (Jan 16, 2007)

dragonflamez said:
			
		

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 Actually, if I was going to vote for inductees, I would induct the Sages at a later point since they had already received some recognition prior, while there are tons of members who have yet to receive any.


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## Grawr (Jan 16, 2007)

But, do the sages find it okay to be replaced? Won't that make them feel kinda...not good?


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## dragonflamez (Jan 16, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 But the HoF is voted by the members.
Which equals a popularity contest.

And everyone knows that the Sages have little minion armies somewhere.


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## Zelandonia (Jan 16, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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Agreed.

I think that we should restart the Sage program from scratch, and also do the HoF program.

A requirement of being a new Sage could be That you must have been a HoF member for a while.


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## Bulerias (Jan 16, 2007)

Gengar said:
			
		

> But, do the sages find it okay to be replaced? Won't that make them feel kinda...not good?


 As I said, they wouldn't be "replaced", since they would eventually get into the HoF.

@ Dragonflamez - The thing about that... I don't know if that's going to be how it will be in the long run.  Maybe it'll actually be voted by the staff, we'll have to see... I am against popularity contests (especially seeing as that's how most of the Sages at NSider are chosen... look at Computers or any other Sage like him), so yeah...


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## Zelandonia (Jan 16, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 No.

Having Staff vote for the HoF members would defeat the purpose of the Hof.


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## Grawr (Jan 16, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 Okay...but have you talked to the sages? It's kinda like...no, it is like you gave them something, but now you're taking it away and saying "you'll get something like this again...but later."

As long as the sages are okay with it, I guess its an okay idea.


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## dragonflamez (Jan 16, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 Well, NSider is radioactive. I much prefer choosing Sages based on merit. Look at Spamerooski on Nsider. He's a Sage, and has 600 posts.


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## Tyler (Jan 16, 2007)

Gengar said:
			
		

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 Nope.


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## Grawr (Jan 16, 2007)

Nope..meaning your not okay with it, Odd?   
:huh:


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## Bulerias (Jan 16, 2007)

dragonflamez said:
			
		

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 Same here, as I said, I detest popularity contests.  I am a good friend of Spam's, actually, and even though he has virtually no posts as you said (compared to the other Sages, most of which are suckups), he has done a hell of a lot more than, say, Computers.


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## Tyler (Jan 16, 2007)

Gengar said:
			
		

> Nope..meaning your not okay with it, Odd?   
:huh:


 A little. But I meant nope he didn't contact us. Or not directly. He kinda did but we weren't expecting this.


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## dragonflamez (Jan 16, 2007)

Well, of course the Sages dont like the idea.
But restarting the Sage system from the ground up might be a good idea.

But that would probably mean either picking all-new Sages, or choosing the same ones again. Because I doubt they would consider it 'fair' if some old Sages were picked over new ones.


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## Grawr (Jan 16, 2007)

I dunno'...I still say you talk more to the sages about this.


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## Tyler (Jan 16, 2007)

Well I'm discussing with Bul the main problems that are happening right now so we may have a way to resolve this.  :gyroidveryhappy:


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## dragonflamez (Jan 16, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 Lol, I'm also a good contact with Spam. CS (which is now private, by the way) is a breeding ground for intellect.

Still doesnt solve the Sage problem, though.


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## UltraByte (Jan 16, 2007)

Maybe it'd be a good idea to restart the Sage system, just let go the few that don't deserve the title. Of course, they'd hate you if you did that.


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## Bulerias (Jan 16, 2007)

UltraByte said:
			
		

> Maybe it'd be a good idea to restart the Sage system, just let go the few that don't deserve the title. Of course, they'd hate you if you did that.


 And that's exactly the problem; I wouldn't want anyone hating me for de-Saging them, and if you ask me, I think the lot of them deserve it, but the problem is with the program, not with them.


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## Zelandonia (Jan 16, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 Why is the problem with the program?

And wouldn't the HoF members sooner or later start wanting special right too?


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## DarthGohan1 (Jan 16, 2007)

There's no point to the HoF if the Sages become members... most of them will go straight to the HoF then.

I only came up with the idea of the HoF to allow the current members a chance at something.


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## Grawr (Jan 16, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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Just by saying that you think the lot of them deserve de-Sagedom might already make them mad at you...

Since you think that way, I think maybe restarting the Sage thing is an okay idea...but...still, its not fair to the sages that did deserve sagedom, y'know?

I'm really not sure...I don't think I should be saying anything here...the way I see it, its between you and the sages, m' friend...


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## Gabby (Jan 16, 2007)

Isn't there a time limit on being sage?


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## Bulerias (Jan 16, 2007)

Gengar said:
			
		

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 Oh my God, I didn't word that correctly.  I meant that the lot of them DIDN'T deserve de-Saging.


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## Grawr (Jan 16, 2007)

Bulerias said:
			
		

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 Wow! Good thing I pointed that out then.     

In that case, I say talk it over with each and every sage. If the majority of them somehow find this idea okay, then I would go along with it...


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## Tyler (Jan 16, 2007)

Well me and Bul have finished our conversation and we _may_  have a way to fix this delima.


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## Grawr (Jan 16, 2007)

OddCrazyMe said:
			
		

> Well me and Bul have finished our conversation and we _may_  have a way to fix this delima.


 Sounds good...will we hear your idea soon?


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## Tyler (Jan 16, 2007)

Gengar said:
			
		

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 Maybe not cause that could cause an utmost riot. We're trying to keep it hush hush until the Staff looks over it.  :gyroidwink:


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## Zelandonia (Jan 16, 2007)

OddCrazyMe said:
			
		

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## Tennis=Life (Jan 16, 2007)

Idk, I think that would be okay, with HOF kind of replacing it.  But if we get rid of it the Sage program should be gone for a while (at least a couple of years).  There's just been so many problems in the Sage board and a majority of the Sages are trying to get more power of TBT and other dumb stuff like that (I was one of the few, very few, against it).  It's just not the same being a Sage anymore...well idk how it was before, but when I wasn't a Sage I expected it to be much different from how it is today or even before (when I was a Sage).

The honor of being a Sage is good enough for me.  Really, I think we should start from there.  What Sages don't care about the honor and just care about something else?  There are few Sages and I think the Sages should be happy enough they are Sages.


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 16, 2007)

We have yet to identify if the HoF is a good choice and how it will be done. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, let alone made.


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## Grawr (Jan 16, 2007)

Super_Naruto said:
			
		

> Idk, I think that would be okay, with HOF kind of replacing it.  But if we get rid of it the Sage program should be gone for a while (at least a couple of years).  There's just been so many problems in the Sage board and a majority of the Sages are trying to get more power of TBT and other dumb stuff like that (I was one of the few, very few, against it).  It's just not the same being a Sage anymore...well idk how it was before, but when I wasn't a Sage I expected it to be much different from how it is today or even before (when I was a Sage).
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 *soon to be edited with one of those "Good Post" smilies*

Well, lets just hope Odd and Bul's idea will work things out.

(OH! Gotta go...American Idol starts in 10!)


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 16, 2007)

Gengar said:
			
		

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 Just go to the karaoke bar and get the same results live.


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## Tennis=Life (Jan 16, 2007)

Yeah that show kinda sucks...well the auditions is the best part.  You don't have to know anyones name.

Anyways, if the HOF idea doesn't work out, so be it.  It's not like we can't remove Sages then.  We can still remove Sages, try HOF, and maybe HOF fails. Nothing is going to happen if it does.


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## Furry Sparks (Jan 16, 2007)

Well.. this is what WILL happen:

So we have member hall of fame, and we'll probably have one what, once a month? Few weeks? So that means all that we have to do is wait until its us, and oh look there we are! It will get to the point where the people in control of it will just start making up random crap to have a person to put in the HoF. And then, people won't care anymore about being in it. Its just something that they know they'll get eventually if they just post a bit.


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## Zelandonia (Jan 16, 2007)

A long, long time ago...
I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile.
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make those people dance
And, maybe, they’d be happy for a while.

But february made me shiver
With every paper I’d deliver.
Bad news on the doorstep;
I couldn’t take one more step.

I can’t remember if I cried
When I read about his widowed bride,
But something touched me deep inside
The day the music died.

Oh, and as I watched him on the stage
My hands were clenched in fists of rage.
No angel born in hell
Could break that satan’s spell.
And as the flames climbed high into the night
To light the sacrificial rite,
I saw satan laughing with delight
The day the music died

From "American Pie" by Don McLean. It seemed appropriate.     
-_-


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## UltraByte (Jan 16, 2007)

Zelandonia said:
			
		

> A long, long time ago...
> I can still remember
> How that music used to make me smile.
> And I knew if I had my chance
> ...


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## Justin (Jan 16, 2007)

I understand that it made have to be done, no other choices seem to be appearing, I wouldn't be mad if it happened but I would be disappointed.


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## Furry Sparks (Jan 16, 2007)

Justin125 said:
			
		

> I understand that it made have to be done, no other choices seem to be appearing, I wouldn't be mad if it happened but I would be disappointed.


 You took my post from the sage board D= I said I wouldn't be mad but I would be disappointed.


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## Justin (Jan 16, 2007)

I did because I feel the same as you.


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## Furry Sparks (Jan 16, 2007)

Justin125 said:
			
		

> I did because I feel the same as you.


 Oh... mmkay... I guess     

I wonder if this thread would be here if the sages never started to ask for rights... I really wonder...


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## Monkey09 (Jan 16, 2007)

I say keep the sages that desserve to be sages and then the ones who dont well maybe that will open teir eyes to be better members and they could get sagedom back so keep some only the ones who deserve and help and all will be well plus if the ones that get stripped of their sage rights and gety all mad would that maybe make these forums better in a way so keep some throw out others and all should be well in my opinion.


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## Grawr (Jan 17, 2007)

Monkey09 said:
			
		

> I say keep the sages that desserve to be sages and then the ones who dont well maybe that will open teir eyes to be better members and they could get sagedom back so keep some only the ones who deserve and help and all will be well plus if the ones that get stripped of their sage rights and gety all mad would that maybe make these forums better in a way so keep some throw out others and all should be well in my opinion.


  >_< 

Please use punctuation...


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## Micah (Jan 17, 2007)

Pros and cons to both.


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## sunate (Jan 17, 2007)

Koehler said:
			
		

> Pros and cons to both.


 Why don't we just have both the sages and the HoF  the hall of fame is for members who have helped tbt in a way like the news paper or ideas the sages are just for being great members


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## Fanghorn (Jan 17, 2007)

Ahem, here's my  Zombie wisdom.


Alright, unless we get another surge of normal members, after awhile, almost everyone at TBT will become a HoF member or a sage, thus making no one higher then really anyone else. Kind of like that "Make everyone feel good" method. I don't treally care for that, as people who did more might not get as much of cedit as they derverve. But, the puplic knows that ther good already, and does not need a freaking title to spell it out for them. 

If we get rid of sages, and start up with the HoF, I assume most sages will be voted into this before others, keeping the ones that should stay still in there spotlight. Sounds good right? 

Well, lets say a new member *just* joined the fourm, and quite frankly one of the best members to graze TBT, although, Her/him may only have 100 some posts, but is putting more effort into things then anyone else at the time. 

Him/Her gets accepted into the Hall of Fame, and everyones poud. As most pople like this person.

Now, the current HoF members may not have done as much as him/her ( Ok, the 100 posts where like freaking godly, O.K.? )  Everyone knows they are not as good, even though they claim they are 5000x better. 

And so, one of the current HoF Members sends out a small flame to the new one, and thus starting

<big><big><big>TEH BIG FLAME WARR!!!!11!!!111!</big>





( If you know where that first came from, good for you. DD )

So, no matter what we do, some ones gonna get hurt. So, my idea is....


DON'T GIVE ANY TITLES AT ALL.

The puplic knows whos a good member, and who is a bad one. If your good, you know you don't need a title telling others that you are, you just live/post that way.


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## SL92 (Jan 17, 2007)

Whatever.


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## Fanghorn (Jan 17, 2007)

[quote="Shadow_] Whatever. [/quote]
 Thanks for your long, extra outstanding commment SL.


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## SL92 (Jan 17, 2007)

Fanghorn said:
			
		

> [quote="Shadow_] Whatever.


Thanks for your long, extra outstanding commment SL.     			 [/quote]
  :lol:


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## Fanghorn (Jan 17, 2007)

Hah, Ive seen 5-7 members and sages view my long post, and they left no comment, as they proabably did not read it.

There inner Robin told them "Holy snipes Batman! Thats one long post!  XD


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## DarthGohan1 (Jan 17, 2007)

Fang, you could say that for anything... when it gets to be too saturated, as the Sage program has, then something will be done.

And your situation is very far-fetched.


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## Tyler (Jan 17, 2007)

Well I have talked to 3 people about my scenario and it's starting to catch on a little.


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## Triforce3force (Jan 17, 2007)

Hmm...this entire debate is interesting.  I've been reading Animal Farm lately, and it's scared me. :no: *shudders*  

But that aside....Sages really don't do much, they're just a title...and they get to have a cool little title, like instead of "coconut", it would be "Master of Fish" (Just an example).  Now, the only reason I would want to be a sage was because of the cool little title.  The Hall of Fame doesn't seem like a great idea, however.  That would be an even more elitist thing.  

People would be wondering "Why didn't *I* get in", and how could the judges possibly be non-biased?  They are both a bad idea.  Just give everyone an option to edit their title so I could be...say...."Firebending Master" or whatnot, and everybody's happy!

That's my two cents.   :gyroidsmile:


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## SL92 (Jan 17, 2007)

I have no strong opinion either way.


Oh, but HoF would make people who'd get in look even better than sages. Just to say.


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 17, 2007)

Fang let me just say that your whole theory is wrong.

Just because a selection is held every month doesn't mean someone will allowed to be let in. This isn't spin the bottle where every turn someone gets it. This is Hall of Fame like in the Pros where everyone may not get it.

Also, if a person flames at another HoF for being in it for doing less one could say they don't deserve it. If the committee feels, 2/3s of course, he is pulled and can not be re-elected for 3 months.

Your Zombie Wisdom may be current with the news at TBT but its thought process is dead.


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## Propaganda Man (Jan 17, 2007)

Triforce3force said:
			
		

> Hmm...this entire debate is interesting.  I've been reading Animal Farm lately, and it's scared me. :no: *shudders*
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 You get judges that are mature and won't hold grudges against anyone. There are very few people here that are able to do that and most don't seem to be in the staff.


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## Fanghorn (Jan 17, 2007)

Minoranza said:
			
		

> Fang let me just say that your whole theory is wrong.
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I was just thinking that, they might pick people that didn't have it already, thus running out of people!


Joe the Bot is in the Hall of fame for posting! ZOMG!

The main thing That I wanted to get across was at the end.


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