# Terrorist Attacks in Paris



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

I just saw these on the news, and many people have been killed. Voice your opinions on the matter here.


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## nerdatheart9490 (Nov 13, 2015)

Holy crap. That is just... 

I will never understand how a person can hurt someone else. When I think about it, I imagine someone hurting me or my family, and I feel horrible and stop wishing harm on a person. How can someone actually go through with bombing and shooting at civilians? Unbelievable. Disgusting.


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## Reindeer (Nov 13, 2015)

It's not just explosions.

First it was a restaurant being shot at with an automatic rifle. Then there were two suicide bomb attacks plus another explosion at the soccer stadium where France and Germany were playing. Then a concert hall was taken over by assailants.

The events at the concert hall have been going on for about an hour or two. It turned into a hostage situation, though many were killed. There were also some reports from inside that the hostages were being killed one by one. French police is currently raiding it.

France has gone into a state of national emergency. Borders are closed and martial law has been declared in Paris temporarily, with the military moving in.


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## Gregriii (Nov 13, 2015)

I'm kinda afraid since I live in Catalonia wich is next to France and Spain is one of Isis's next points so ;_;


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## tsantsa (Nov 13, 2015)

The UK needs to take action and shut off the euro tunnel, i dont give a f*** how much of an inconviniance it would be, we need to save our country.

Whats happening in france is terrible and they're all in my prayers, the fact that someone could do that to another person who is completely innocent turns my stomouch.


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## DarkDesertFox (Nov 13, 2015)

I can't believe how many terrorist attacks have been on the news lately. This is just insane.


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## nerdatheart9490 (Nov 13, 2015)

What I do like is that the government took immediate reaction. Military out, borders closed, act now ask questions later. This is what we need in the US. But no, we just spin it into a sensational headline and a chance for the President to give an empty speech.

I hope they're able to help the rest of the hostages and find out what scum bags did this.


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## KarlaKGB (Nov 13, 2015)

it'll only get worse thanks to europe's refugee policy


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## Reindeer (Nov 13, 2015)

ems said:


> The UK needs to take action and shut off the euro tunnel, i dont give a f*** how much of an inconviniance it would be, we need to save our country.


European borders need to close or be heavily regulated. If you just let people in without checking them, you have jihadists coming in. People have been yelling this for months, but are played off as "racists" and "nazis". We just want to make sure our countries are safe from this kind of scum.



nerdatheart9490 said:


> What I do like is that the government took immediate reaction. Military out, borders closed, act now ask questions later.


People often make fun of the French for being spineless, but you do not want to piss them off for exactly this reason. They will descend upon you with unholy wrath.


The raid in the Bataclan theater is now over, two terrorists confirmed killed. Still no reports on the status of victims inside.

There's also reports coming in of the refugee camps in Calais burning. It's pretty easy to guess what kind of person/people did that. I understand the underlying anger, but I do not agree with this course of action.


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> It's not just explosions.
> 
> First it was a restaurant being shot at with an automatic rifle. Then there were two suicide bomb attacks plus another explosion at the soccer stadium where France and Germany were playing. Then a concert hall was taken over by assailants.
> 
> ...



It almost sounds like 9/11.


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## epona (Nov 13, 2015)

it's horrible and tragic and there is no justification for terrorism, but the french government can't just sit there and scratch their heads when the fact remains that innocents are paying with their lives for france's involvement in regions they don't have any business in all for the black gold

that said, that's a consideration for later and not now. thoughts with everyone in the entirety of france tonight, paris in particular. i can't even begin to fathom how terrifying this must be


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## KarlaKGB (Nov 13, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> It almost sounds like 9/11.



this is basically france's 9/11. france's mumbai. thoughts with everyone out there tonight.


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## LambdaDelta (Nov 13, 2015)

the worst part about this is that it's just going to make things even worse for the refugees genuinely trying to escape from this ****

basically, regardless of what happens the terrorists already won


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## Bosca (Nov 13, 2015)

They already got into people's head before. This is awful, thoughts are with everyone in Paris tonight. I hope those spineless idiots that did this get what they deserve.


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## Reindeer (Nov 13, 2015)

_The AP is now citing two Paris police officials as saying that security forces have ended their assault on the Bataclan, killing at least two attackers. Neither official could be named, citing ongoing operations throughout the city.

One official described “carnage” inside the building, saying the attackers had tossed explosives at the hostages. Both officials said they expected the toll of victims to rise._

From The Guardian's live blog.

Police also reported "around 100" dead inside the concert hall. source


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## KarlaKGB (Nov 13, 2015)

over 100 hostages dead


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## Kawaii Cupcakes (Nov 13, 2015)

I hate this 
because honestly I'm going to go to school on Monday and everyone is going to make fun of me for being a "terrorist" just because I'm muslim but honestly my heart goes out to the people who lost their friends, family, etc. 
this makes me so angry that these stupid people find it necessary to kill others w/o reason


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## epona (Nov 13, 2015)

seeing unofficial reports on twitter that hostages were using social media to urge the police to raid the concert hall, and that they were being executed one by one

i think it may just be scaremongering though, i can't find sources for it anywhere, but with 100 dead it could be true 

god this is so awful

edit: found a source


also got in touch with one of my best friends who is in university over in paris and thankfully he is okay but obviously shaken


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## jiny (Nov 13, 2015)

Oh my god, I heard about this at school when I was watching CNN student news. I feel so bad for people living in Paris. My prayers go out to the people who are suffering.


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

My mom thought the Nairobi bombings in 1998 were bad enough...
It's just gotten worse and worse worldwide every year...


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## Kissyme100 (Nov 13, 2015)

I'm praying for everyone's safety.


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## Reindeer (Nov 13, 2015)

Kawaii Cupcakes said:


> I hate this
> because honestly I'm going to go to school on Monday and everyone is going to make fun of me for being a "terrorist" just because I'm muslim


I'm sorry. My heart goes out to you and others receiving that kind of unfounded hate speech.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 13, 2015)

Just heard about it. I'm at work so I don't get updated a lot. I just heard, as a matter of fact.

I feel really bad for the people of France, and especially those in Paris right now. It's going to be a really hard time coming when everyone heals and they investigate.


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## LambdaDelta (Nov 13, 2015)

Kawaii Cupcakes said:


> I hate this
> because honestly I'm going to go to school on Monday and everyone is going to make fun of me for being a "terrorist" just because I'm muslim



jeez

best of luck in dealing with that **** probably even more head on than usual


same to everyone else that will unfairly be forced to deal with this


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

Kawaii Cupcakes said:


> I hate this
> because honestly I'm going to go to school on Monday and everyone is going to make fun of me for being a "terrorist" just because I'm muslim but honestly my heart goes out to the people who lost their friends, family, etc.
> this makes me so angry that these stupid people find it necessary to kill others w/o reason



I wish you the best of luck.


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## Titi (Nov 13, 2015)

I'm parisian... Thankfully I'm not currently living there (I'm in Spain), but I do have friends there.  Anxiously waiting for some of them to report safety.

The Bataclan (concert hall where the hostages were killed) is a very popular friday night hangout place for people my age, I've been there a good amount of time. Sadly most of the dead will be very young.


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## Reindeer (Nov 13, 2015)

Officials estimate the death toll to be around 140.
1500 military troops have been mobilized.
In response to these attacks, Belgium has now also closed their borders.



Titi said:


> I'm parisian... Thankfully I'm not currently living there (I'm in Spain), but I do have friends there.
> Anxiously waiting for some of them to report safety.


I hope you hear from them soon.


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## KarlaKGB (Nov 13, 2015)

i hope france invokes NATO article 5


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## Mega_Cabbage (Nov 13, 2015)

Right when I'm writing an essay about violence and warfare too... I hope all the  killings end soon. It sucks that a small population has to ruin it for an entire nation.


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## Titi (Nov 13, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> Officials estimate the death toll to be around 140.
> 1500 military troops have been mobilized.
> In response to these attacks, Belgium has now also closed their borders.
> 
> ...



Thanks hun, it's a bit nerve wrecking but I'm sure they are fine. Most have posted that they are safe and sound on fb.


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## cinny (Nov 13, 2015)

https://twitter.com/whatever/status/665318406908874753
This is just crazy and I believe my boyfriend's family lives around the areas of the shootings... we just hung up on skype so he can be with his mother.
Also Japan had a 7.0 earthquake a couple hours ago..


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## LambdaDelta (Nov 13, 2015)

cinny said:


> https://twitter.com/whatever/status/665318406908874753



that's from January, not today


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## Soigne (Nov 13, 2015)

this has been a terrible, chaotic day and i hope everyone currently in paris stays safe.


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## epona (Nov 13, 2015)

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/552955167533174785

what a vile and repulsive vulture of a man


edit; this is from january, sorry!


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 13, 2015)

There's a hashtag for people who are looking for safety and can't get home (public transport being unsafe), but people keep flooding it.


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## ShinyYoshi (Nov 13, 2015)

epona said:


> https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/552955167533174785
> 
> what a vile and repulsive vulture of a man


That's also from January? 

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/665316238806007809

Edit: I also hate the man, but that tweet wasn't for this incident.


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## Titi (Nov 13, 2015)

epona said:


> https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/552955167533174785
> 
> what a vile and repulsive vulture of a man



I'd shoot him if I had the chance.


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## jiny (Nov 13, 2015)

epona said:


> https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/552955167533174785
> 
> what a vile and repulsive vulture of a man




edit: woops, didn't realize it was from january!!


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## epona (Nov 13, 2015)

ShinyYoshi said:


> That's also from January?
> 
> https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/665316238806007809



my mistake, seems he has better PR people this time around


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

cinny said:


> https://twitter.com/whatever/status/665318406908874753
> This is just crazy and I believe my boyfriend's family lives around the areas of the shootings... we just hung up on skype so he can be with his mother.
> Also Japan had a 7.0 earthquake a couple hours ago..



Yeah, I heard about the Japan earthquake.


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## Izzy Reincarnated (Nov 13, 2015)

I have a friend that lives in Paris


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## boujee (Nov 13, 2015)

Makes my stomach turn 
Rest in peace to the victims lost


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## cinny (Nov 13, 2015)

ShinyYoshi said:


> That's also from January?
> 
> https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/665316238806007809
> 
> Edit: I also hate the man, but that tweet wasn't for this incident.


lol wowow @ him.


LambdaDelta said:


> that's from January, not today


Sorry, did not look up the resource. my bad.

https://twitter.com/AP
https://www.reddit.com/live/vwwmdb26t78v?ref=live_homepage


this too.. https://twitter.com/AP/status/665324664693067776
"BREAKING: Police say tour bus crash in San Francisco leaves 19 hurt, 5 critically."


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## Titi (Nov 13, 2015)

Our president is practically crying at the scene...


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## mintellect (Nov 13, 2015)

I heard about the tragedy on Miiverse. The NSLU community is full of people talking about it.
The reason they did this, I heard, was because they think it will make them go to Heaven???


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## Kinoko (Nov 13, 2015)

It's really horrible. There have also been two suicide bombings in Beirut and Japan has a tsunami warning for the 7.0 earthquake. 

Also please remember that there is only speculation linked to whoever is responsible for the Paris attacks, and there are no groups claiming to be behind the attacks thus far. Make sure to not spread false information linking anyone (ISIS for example, or a specific race/religious group) to the attacks until it is confirmed~


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## Titi (Nov 13, 2015)

Diancie Rose said:


> I heard about the tragedy on Miiverse. The NSLU community is full of people talking about it.
> The reason they did this, I heard, was because they think it will make them go to Heaven???



We don't know who the terrorists are yet, we only have rumours. But yes, suicide bombers usually indicate extreme religious motives.


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## Izzy Reincarnated (Nov 13, 2015)

It's isis. That stupid Arab terrorist group


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## mintellect (Nov 13, 2015)

Titi said:


> We don't know who the terrorists are yet, we only have rumours. But yes, suicide bombers usually indicate extreme religious motives.



Oh, we don't? Most of the people on Miiverse are pretty certain it was ISIS.


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## The Hidden Owl (Nov 13, 2015)

Apparently President Obama is vowing revenge on the people who did it.

Like that has ever happened before... yet he doesn't make any effort to rescue the Americans being held in the Middle East.

- - - Post Merge - - -

And um yeah it's Isis. I don't know why you would try to defend them???


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## Titi (Nov 13, 2015)

Diancie Rose said:


> Oh, we don't? Most of the people on Miiverse are pretty certain it was ISIS.



There is no official claim yet. Rumours run fast.


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## ShinyYoshi (Nov 13, 2015)

Kinoko said:


> Also please remember that there is only speculation linked to whoever is responsible for the Paris attacks, and there are no groups claiming to be behind the attacks thus far. Make sure to not spread false information linking anyone (ISIS for example, or a specific race/religious group) to the attacks until it is confirmed~



I was trying to find where anyone had said who these terrorists were and haven't been able to find anything except a lady in the first restaurant attacked said she heard someone scream "allah Akbar" before firing, but I don't think it was an official source. No news reports have specifically stated who these attackers are. 

My prayers go out to the people of Paris in hopes this gets taken care of as quickly as possible for the sake of their people.


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## Titi (Nov 13, 2015)

Diancie Rose said:


> Oh, we don't? Most of the people on Miiverse are pretty certain it was ISIS.



There is no official claim yet. Rumours run fast.


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## The Hidden Owl (Nov 13, 2015)

And um yeah it's Isis. I don't know why you would try to defend them???


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## NerdHouse (Nov 13, 2015)

Diancie Rose said:


> Oh, we don't? Most of the people on Miiverse are pretty certain it was ISIS.



Implying Miiverse is a credible source.


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## Titi (Nov 13, 2015)

The Hidden Owl said:


> And um yeah it's Isis. I don't know why you would try to defend them???



Not defending anyone. Just clarifying that there have been no official reports on who the terrorists are yet. I've been watching the event live on TF1 for hours now.


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

Kinoko said:


> It's really horrible. There have also been two suicide bombings in Beirut and Japan has a tsunami warning for the 7.0 earthquake.
> 
> Also please remember that there is only speculation linked to whoever is responsible for the Paris attacks, and there are no groups claiming to be behind the attacks thus far. Make sure to not spread false information linking anyone (ISIS for example, or a specific race/religious group) to the attacks until it is confirmed~



It was confirmed that the attacks in Paris and Beirut were by ISIS though.


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## Titi (Nov 13, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> It was confirmed that the attacks in Paris and Beirut were by ISIS though.



No it has not.


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## Izzy Reincarnated (Nov 13, 2015)

ISIS is the new Al-qaeda.

Ugh, the middle east has so many things wrong with it.


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## crystalmilktea (Nov 13, 2015)

Devastating...death toll has skyrocketed up after hostages in a music hall were killed...

Rest in peace to the victims and praying for Paris


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## The Hidden Owl (Nov 13, 2015)

nvm . . .


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

Titi said:


> Not defending anyone. Just clarifying that there have been no official reports on who the terrorists are yet. I've been watching the event live on TF1 for hours now.



I saw it on Fox News and it said that it was done by ISIS, as one of the attackers admitted to it.
Anyways, I didn't mention anything about ISIS, I just said that it's had similarities to the bombing that happened in Nairobi in 1998.
What interesting is that the Paris attacks and the earthquake in Japan both happened on Friday the 13th.


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## Izzy Reincarnated (Nov 13, 2015)

**** ISIS.

They deserve to be ****ed by MT. Everest


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## Titi (Nov 13, 2015)

The Hidden Owl said:


> I just find it really hypocritical that people defend ISIS yet are so quick to blame religious groups/morals.



No one is defending ISIS. It's just stupid to make claims of who did this based on rumours alone.
Please wait for official sources to report. We do not know for now.


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## The Hidden Owl (Nov 13, 2015)

Izzy Reincarnated said:


> **** ISIS.
> 
> They deserve to be ****ed by MT. Everest



Pls tell that to our president so he'll do something about it.


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

Izzy Reincarnated said:


> ISIS is the new Al-qaeda.
> 
> Ugh, the middle east has so many things wrong with it.



Actually, they're allies.
Things have been bad for a long time. There was the Lockerbie air disaster in 1988, then the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the Nairobi embassy bombing in 1998, and then 9/11 in 2001. Of course, it's just continued from there.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Titi said:


> No one is defending ISIS. It's just stupid to make claims of who did this based on rumours alone.
> Please wait for official sources to report. We do not know for now.



But I was watching a report on Fox News just about an hour ago and it had been confirmed that one of the attackers said they were part of ISIS.


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## Titi (Nov 13, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> I saw it on Fox News and it said that it was done by ISIS, as one of the attackers admitted to it.
> Anyways, I didn't mention anything about ISIS, I just said that it's had similarities to the bombing that happened in Nairobi in 1998.
> What interesting is that the Paris attacks and the earthquake in Japan both happened on Friday the 13th.



I don't know what the hell fox news is telling you guys. I'm watching the official french live report and no terrorist group has been blamed yet. They are the prime suspect, but it has not been confirmed. btw the attackers are dead, no one has admitted anything.


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## The Hidden Owl (Nov 13, 2015)

Titi said:


> No one is defending ISIS. It's just stupid to make claims of who did this based on rumours alone.
> Please wait for official sources to report. We do not know for now.



I understand that, but I really don't see any evidence that it was any other group. We'll have to see though, I have a feeling that the speculations are probably right however.


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

The Hidden Owl said:


> I understand that, but I really don't see any evidence that it was any other group. We'll have to see though, I have a feeling that the speculations are probably right however.



You also have to consider that yesterday's attack in Beirut was done by them.


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## NerdHouse (Nov 13, 2015)

How can anyone take Fox News seriously. I mean really.


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## The Hidden Owl (Nov 13, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> You also have to consider that yesterday's attack in Beirut was done by them.



That and they specifically follow a book that tells them to annihilate anyone who doesn't follow Allah and to conquer the world.


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

Chroma Red said:


> How can anyone take Fox News seriously. I mean really.



I've also looked at Twitter and it's said the same thing.

- - - Post Merge - - -



The Hidden Owl said:


> That and they specifically follow a book that tells them to annihilate anyone who doesn't follow Allah and to conquer the world.



Which that's why al-Qaeda did 9/11 and the other attacks such as the Nairobi bombing.


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## The Hidden Owl (Nov 13, 2015)

Chroma Red said:


> How can anyone take Fox News seriously. I mean really.



Um, well probably because they are a credible news source.

Just because the majority of people that cast there aren't liberal doesn't mean they aren't accurate.


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## boujee (Nov 13, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> I've also looked at Twitter and it's said the same thing.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...





It goes way deeper than just reading a book


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

The Hidden Owl said:


> Um, well probably because they are a credible news source.
> 
> Just because the majority of people that cast there aren't liberal doesn't mean they aren't accurate.



For example, I'm not a liberal person. I'll admit, I'm not. If there's breaking news I look at whatever station, and my mom mainly watches Fox News, which is why I usually look at it.


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## epona (Nov 13, 2015)

The Hidden Owl said:


> That and they specifically follow a book that tells them to annihilate anyone who doesn't follow Allah and to conquer the world.



you're just being blatantly islamophobic now
please stop before you embarrass yourself any further or offend anybody


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## Izzy Reincarnated (Nov 13, 2015)

Wish one day the people of the middle east get to breathe the air of freedom. 
I wish this for every country, especially China and North Korea. Their prisoners must be set free.


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## Tao (Nov 13, 2015)

The Hidden Owl said:


> Um, well probably because they are a credible news source.




Making light of a dark situation I see.


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

Gamzee said:


> It goes way deeper than just reading a book



I know, I know. But the shari'ah law definitely has an effect.


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## The Hidden Owl (Nov 13, 2015)

Gamzee said:


> It goes way deeper than just reading a book



Exactly, its their religion and standard of morals.


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## Soigne (Nov 13, 2015)

terrorism has no religion


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## The Hidden Owl (Nov 13, 2015)

epona said:


> you're just being blatantly islamophobic now
> please stop before you embarrass yourself any further or offend anybody



excuse me? I am talking about ISIS and what they believe, not the entirety of Muslims.

And by stating their religious book does not make me islamophobic, I'm not sure how you got that. i'm just stating facts.


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

Roh said:


> terrorism has no religion



Terrorism can or cannot be religiously motivated, but there have been many instances where it has.

- - - Post Merge - - -



The Hidden Owl said:


> excuse me? I am talking about ISIS and what they believe, not the entirety of Muslims.
> 
> And by stating their religious book does not make me islamophobic, I'm not sure how you got that. i'm just stating facts.



Exactly, the sharia law has been known to be a reason for terrorism. Not all Muslims are terrorists, only a minority are, but the say the sharia law is their reason for their actions.


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## epona (Nov 13, 2015)

murder is not islam. these people are not muslims.


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## Shimmer (Nov 13, 2015)

This is so scary. My prayers go out to all those stuck in this mess. 

This stuff scares me so much. It could happen anywhere.


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## The Hidden Owl (Nov 13, 2015)

epona said:


> murder is not islam. these people are not muslims.


They are radical Muslims.

I don't see how you think that religion and murder cannot be connected.

When a religious book blatantly tells people to kill other people just because, that is murder and that is from religion.


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

The Hidden Owl said:


> They are radical Muslims.
> 
> I don't see how you think that religion and murder cannot be connected.



Exactly. In fact, that's why ISIS's full name is "The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant".


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## Spongebob (Nov 13, 2015)

This is horrible, my heart goes out to those affected in this event.


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## Bowie (Nov 13, 2015)

I can't even put into words how upset I am by this. Humanity is becoming crueller by the minute. I wish religion never existed. The people behind this are to blame, of course, but if it's true these are motivated by ISIS (I haven't heard anything about that officially yet), I just wish religion never came to be. No personal belief should be used as a weapon and brutally forced upon innocent people.


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## shunishu (Nov 13, 2015)

can everyone just leave their opinions at home please and concentrate on sending prayers to everyone there and post helpful information, worries and concerns. putting blame, pointing fingers  and making assumptions isnt helping anyone. this isnt a who was right bingo.

i'm really worried what this means for the already messy refugee situation and i really dont wanna see more racism rising in france and everywhere 

my thoughts are with you there


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## gem83 (Nov 13, 2015)

shunishu said:


> can everyone just leave their opinions at home please and concentrate on sending prayers to everyone there and post helpful information, worries and concern. putting blames, pointing fingers  and making assumptions isnt helping anyone. this isnt a who was right bingo.
> 
> i''m really worried what this means for the already messy refugee situation and i really dont wanna see more racism rising in france and everywhere



Exactly. Leave it to the internet to turn the deaths of over 100 innocent people into a religious debate.

My heart goes out to the families and loved ones of everyone who died tonight.


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## Trundle (Nov 13, 2015)

This is something that seems really well coordinated. Poor innocent France  Hope any of you TBTers from France are safe.


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## KarlaKGB (Nov 13, 2015)

epona said:


> murder is not islam. these people are not muslims.



oh please


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## emolga (Nov 13, 2015)

It just really makes me realize how things like this will just keep happening if we don't do something about it. And truth be told, I don't know _what_ we'd do about it.


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## Kinoko (Nov 13, 2015)

love the islamophobia in this thread 
FOX News is not the most credible news source. Wait until more than one news station is reporting the same thing before calling something fact. Wait until actual French news stations are reporting that a certain group is responsible. Focus less on who could have done it and more on good wishes for the victims and their families. Also, like epona said, murder is not islam. At all.


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## NerdHouse (Nov 13, 2015)

Kinoko said:


> love the islamophobia in this thread
> *FOX News is not the most credible news source.* Wait until more than one news station is reporting the same thing before calling something fact. Wait until actual French news stations are reporting that a certain group is responsible. Focus less on who could have done it and more on good wishes for the victims and their families. Also, like epona said, murder is not islam. At all.



Thank you!

So besides the military going in and state of emergency, etc, what else is being done? Are any other countries sending aid, etc? Sorry I don't have cable or anything (just Netflix/Hulu/etc) so I can't really keep up with anything.


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## emolga (Nov 13, 2015)

And anyways, grouping all Muslims as terrorists is wrong. ISIS, in particular, is a group of radical Sunni Muslims. Almost all Sunni and Shia Muslims disagree with ISIS' ways.


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## Sugilite (Nov 13, 2015)

R.I.P to the victims that were lost
It's a time and place for everything but not right now


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

emolga said:


> And anyways, grouping all Muslims as terrorists is wrong. ISIS, in particular, is a group of radical Sunni Muslims. Almost all Sunni and Shia Muslims disagree with ISIS' ways.



I never said all Muslims are terrorists. I just said that ISIS is a radical group and the sharia law doesn't help.


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## Reindeer (Nov 13, 2015)

emolga said:


> It just really makes me realize how things like this will just keep happening if we don't do something about it. And truth be told, I don't know _what_ we'd do about it.


Intelligence agencies are working on it. Raids are being carried out every now and then on radicalized individuals or terrorist cells. There was a large one in various European countries just yesterday. There was also another attack being planned in France (specifically an attack on a naval base in Toulon) which was prevented. People are working hard to get these kinds of people before they hurt anyone.

Sadly, the terrorists do sometimes slip through and an attack happens.


----------



## boujee (Nov 13, 2015)

Chroma Red said:


> Thank you!
> 
> So besides the military going in and state of emergency, etc, what else is being done? Are any other countries sending aid, etc? Sorry I don't have cable or anything (just Netflix/Hulu/etc) so I can't really keep up with anything.




I'm looking at cnn and abc
The president just did his condones to the people lost and how they're about to send aid to France.


----------



## emolga (Nov 13, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> Intelligence agencies are working on it. Raids are being carried out every now and then on radicalized individuals or terrorist cells. There was a large one in various European countries just yesterday. There was also another attack being planned in France (specifically an attack on a naval base in Toulon) which was prevented. People are working hard to get these kinds of people before they hurt anyone.
> 
> Sadly, the terrorists do sometimes slip through and an attack happens.



I understand that. A lot of terrorist attacks have been prevented throughout the course of the past couple years, but like you said, they sometimes slip through. I hope there's a time when we're able to prevent all terrorist attacks, instead of just most of them.


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

Geraldo Rivera of Fox News's daughter was in the stadium during the attack...


----------



## Reindeer (Nov 13, 2015)

Chroma Red said:


> So besides the military going in and state of emergency, etc, what else is being done? Are any other countries sending aid, etc? Sorry I don't have cable or anything (just Netflix/Hulu/etc) so I can't really keep up with anything.


Belgium has said that they will help France with keeping border regions under control.
At 9am local time, French officials will be coming together to discuss how they will respond.

The US and various other countries have also offered aid.

*Edit:* I forgot to mention that all public facilities in Paris will be closed tomorrow.


----------



## mogyay (Nov 13, 2015)

man i just woke up, awful awful news, all those innocent people.. can't believe it


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

I'm watching Fox News right now and Geraldo Rivera, on TV, is asking his daughter Simone about everything that happened. She's almost crying...


----------



## Chocofruit (Nov 13, 2015)

This is why, I'm sorry if I offend some people, I'm agains't 75% of Immigrants, emigrants & migrants. It's my opinion. I personnally feel like, when more and more migrants are running to Europe, the more contacts ISIS will get in Europe. Though some of these are really trying to flee, some are just getting new chances to bomb stuff. I only support migration, if it is legal, and they come with an open mind, not forcing their views like they do in Denmark and other places, where these people are getting mad because the Un-civilized Sharia law won't be put in place.

Btw here's a link to live coverage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8mbhOyK5BQ


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

Chroma Red said:


> Thank you!
> 
> So besides the military going in and state of emergency, etc, what else is being done? Are any other countries sending aid, etc? Sorry I don't have cable or anything (just Netflix/Hulu/etc) so I can't really keep up with anything.



All news sources have bias. Some (like CNN), tend to be more liberal, and some (like Fox) are more conservative. This matter isn't related to politics. It's a terrorist attack that took many people's lives.


----------



## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 13, 2015)

So far 158 dead, most from the Bataclan. The death toll will sadly only raise as some of those in critical condition don't make it.


----------



## Trundle (Nov 13, 2015)

Chocofruit said:


> This is why, I'm sorry if I offend some people, I'm agains't 75% of Immigrants, emigrants & migrants. It's my opinion. I personnally feel like, when more and more migrants are running to Europe, the more contacts ISIS will get in Europe. Though some of these are really trying to flee, some are just getting new chances to bomb stuff. I only support migration, if it is legal, and they come with an open mind, not forcing their views like they do in Denmark and other places, where these people are getting mad because the Un-civilized Sharia law won't be put in place.



I mean - I don't know much about the whole issue in all honesty, but give them an inch and they'll take a mile. They'll take whatever small chance they can grasp at and use it to a big advantage for their own cause.


----------



## KarlaKGB (Nov 13, 2015)

Chocofruit said:


> This is why, I'm sorry if I offend some people, I'm agains't 75% of Immigrants, emigrants & migrants. It's my opinion. I personnally feel like, when more and more migrants are running to Europe, the more contacts ISIS will get in Europe. Though some of these are really trying to flee, some are just getting new chances to bomb stuff. I only support migration, if it is legal, and they come with an open mind, not forcing their views like they do in Denmark and other places, where these people are getting mad because the Un-civilized Sharia law won't be put in place.



this is the uncomfortable truth. that destructive, sexist, ideals that are incompatible with civilised society are woven within archaic religious beliefs that are still held by too many people.


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

hariolari said:


> So far 158 dead, most from the Bataclan. The death toll will sadly only raise as some of those in critical condition don't make it.



I just saw a report from BBC on it. Explosions could be heard from the concert hall as police came in at the Bataclan.


----------



## nerdatheart9490 (Nov 13, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> Actually, they're allies.
> Things have been bad for a long time. There was the Lockerbie air disaster in 1988, then the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the Nairobi embassy bombing in 1998, and then 9/11 in 2001. Of course, it's just continued from there.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> ...



Just so you know, studies have proven that Fox News lies about pretty much everything. They lie more than any other news network. They are about as credible as the Onion.


----------



## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 13, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> I just saw a report from BBC on it. Explosions could be heard from the concert hall as police came in at the Bataclan.


There are live Tweets from hostages during the takeover. So heartbreaking to read.


----------



## Chocofruit (Nov 13, 2015)

KarlaKGB said:


> this is the uncomfortable truth. that destructive, sexist, ideals that are incompatible with civilised society are woven within archaic religious beliefs that are still held by too many people.



Yeah, My friends were making fun of me for being against these people (Emigrants, Immigrants & Migrants) coming in unattended numbers and unorganized views to Europe.


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

hariolari said:


> There are live Tweets from hostages during the takeover. So heartbreaking to read.



It is really sad. I've seen so many tweets on it...


----------



## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 13, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> It is really sad. I've seen so many tweets on it...


According to survivors they didn't shout or proclaim anything. They never spoke. Just shot.


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

hariolari said:


> According to survivors they didn't shout or proclaim anything. They never spoke. Just shot.



Oh my gosh... I didn't even know about that... My mom turned off the TV as she said it was making her cry...


----------



## nerdatheart9490 (Nov 13, 2015)

epona said:


> murder is not islam. these people are not muslims.



There are passages in the Koran telling Muslims to kill. There are passages in the Old Testament telling Jews and Christians to kill. God is all for killing. People who murder in the name of religion are actually following the religion properly. 

So, yes. Murder is Islam. Murder is essential in all the current major religions.


----------



## Bosca (Nov 13, 2015)

There's a video showing how in the France vs Germany friendly you can hear the bomb going off. Not gonna link it in case it's against the rules on this forum, but it's so scary to think how the people in Paris felt. I know the French supporters sang the French national anthem on their way out as an act of defiance. People should keep their spirits up for the people that have been killed and not point fingers, as that's most likely what these so-called men wanted.


----------



## Chocofruit (Nov 13, 2015)

Guys, to know my and Europe's situation watch this video : http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb0_1447249820


----------



## piichinu (Nov 13, 2015)

Any European areas with this refugee program are so screwed TBH


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

Bosca said:


> There's a video showing how in the France vs Germany friendly you can hear the bomb going off. Not gonna link it in case it's against the rules on this forum, but it's so scary to think how the people in Paris felt. I know the French supporters sang the French national anthem on their way out as an act of defiance. People should keep their spirits up for the people that have been killed and not point fingers, as that's most likely what these so-called men wanted.



I saw it on Vine.


----------



## The Hidden Owl (Nov 13, 2015)

nerdatheart9490 said:


> There are passages in the Koran telling Muslims to kill. There are passages in the Old Testament telling Jews and Christians to kill. God is all for killing. People who murder in the name of religion are actually following the religion properly.
> 
> So, yes. Murder is Islam. Murder is essential in all the current major religions.



Do note that the Old Testament laws have been fulfilled and are not applicable to this day.

The Old Testament laws also had a purpose, and they did not command to kill unless someone in the Jewish group had committed a serious sin. Also God is for justice.

Sorry for the off-topic.


----------



## KarlaKGB (Nov 13, 2015)

Chocofruit said:


> Guys, to know my and Europe's situation watch this video : http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb0_1447249820



yes, this is the counterpoint to those media cameras who just film the refugee children. europe needs to wake up. in an ideal world we would accept all the refugees. but countries should put their own people first.
to use an analogy, imagine u have a lifeboat that only holds 10 people

you can save 10 people, or you can try to squeeze 15 in. but then the boat sinks, and everyone dies. that's the reality of the situation.


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

The Hidden Owl said:


> Do note that the Old Testament laws have been fulfilled and are not applicable to this day.
> 
> The Old Testament laws also had a purpose, and they did not command to kill unless someone in the Jewish group had committed a serious sin. Also God is for justice.
> 
> Sorry for the off-topic.



I agree with this statement. That's why some denominations such as the Church of Christ ignore the Old Testament. I'm a Christian myself (Southern Baptist), and believe the New Testament is more relevant than the Old Testament.


----------



## The Hidden Owl (Nov 13, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> I agree with this statement. That's why some denominations such as the Church of Christ ignore the Old Testament. I'm a Christian myself (Southern Baptist), and believe the New Testament is more relevant than the Old Testament.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



That's why I really want to speak out when people use the Old Testament to back up why Christianity is hypocritical, most of the arguments that are used are from Leviticus and meant for the Jews during the time they were living in.


----------



## gem83 (Nov 13, 2015)

I hope a mod closes this before it gets nasty. Religion and immigration debates? Really? People were killed! Please, guys!


----------



## The Hidden Owl (Nov 13, 2015)

gem83 said:


> I hope a mod closes this before it gets nasty. Religion and immigration debates? Really? People were killed! Please, guys!



I'm sorry for bringing it off topic again, people (including myself) keep debating and I can't help myself. o_o


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

The Hidden Owl said:


> I'm sorry for bringing it off topic again, people (including myself) keep debating and I can't help myself. o_o



I can't help myself either.


----------



## gem83 (Nov 13, 2015)

The Hidden Owl said:


> I'm sorry for bringing it off topic again, people (including myself) keep debating and I can't help myself. o_o



If you can't control yourself then get off the thread. I really don't want another fight to go down, especially during this time.

Again, will be keeping France in my thoughts.


----------



## nerdatheart9490 (Nov 13, 2015)

The Hidden Owl said:


> That's why I really want to speak out when people use the Old Testament to back up why Christianity is hypocritical, most of the arguments that are used are from Leviticus and meant for the Jews during the time they were living in.



Which is funny, because people use the Old Testament to excuse their hate for homosexuals. And they still follow the 10 commandments, even though those were written in the Old Testament.

God is a fictional character who orders death and destruction throughout his series. When Voldemort does it, he's evil. When Space Dandy does it, people make a religion for him.

It's because of religion and its violent commands that the world is so screwed up.


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

nerdatheart9490 said:


> Which is funny, because people use the Old Testament to excuse their hate for homosexuals. And they still follow the 10 commandments, even though those were written in the Old Testament.
> 
> God is a fictional character who orders death and destruction throughout his series. When Voldemort does it, he's evil. When Space Dandy does it, people make a religion for him.
> 
> It's because of religion and its violent commands that the world is so screwed up.



Actually, of the Christians that I know that don't support gay marriage, I was told the New Testament was the reason, not the Old Testament.


----------



## nerdatheart9490 (Nov 13, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> Actually, of the Christians that I know that don't support gay marriage, I was told the New Testament was the reason, not the Old Testament.



The following is a list of things Jesus said about homosexuals in the New Testament:


----------



## Tao (Nov 13, 2015)

gem83 said:


> I hope a mod closes this before it gets nasty. Religion and immigration debates? Really? People were killed! Please, guys!




But it's relevant. 

The lax "everybody in" immigration laws some European countries have is why stuff like this happens, and this isn't the only recent example.


----------



## shunishu (Nov 13, 2015)

Tao said:


> But it's relevant.



not the time and place for this. stop.




nintendofan85 said:


> I can't help myself either.




you're just fueling it. stop.


----------



## Bowie (Nov 13, 2015)

People are dying. This is no time for a discussion about religion, I don't think. Let's just keep the people of Paris in our hearts.


----------



## Aniko (Nov 13, 2015)

What are you doing? My twitter is filled with photos of missing young persons who were at the Bataclan, their friends and family are still looking for them and you are arguing about the ...? Wow....


----------



## Charcolor (Nov 13, 2015)

my girlfriend lives in paris what do i do


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## Bowie (Nov 13, 2015)

Charcolor said:


> my girlfriend lives in paris what do i do



Contact her by the quickest methods you have and await a response. There's nothing else you can do at this point. Also, urge her to stay inside at all times.


----------



## Kawaii Cupcakes (Nov 13, 2015)

nerdatheart9490 said:


> There are passages in the Koran telling Muslims to kill. There are passages in the Old Testament telling Jews and Christians to kill. God is all for killing. People who murder in the name of religion are actually following the religion properly.
> 
> So, yes. Murder is Islam. Murder is essential in all the current major religions.



excuse me but I find this extremely unnecessary
have you ever read the quaran? have you ever read through any of these religious texts?
there are *0* words in the quaran about killing others in order to follow God's words
these people aren't following the quaran but an extreme interpretation of it 
Islam is Not Murder and you have 0% understanding of anything and you're so ignorant honestly 
don't say anything if you don't know what you are talking about

- - - Post Merge - - -



Charcolor said:


> my girlfriend lives in paris what do i do



pray for her


----------



## Chocofruit (Nov 13, 2015)

Kawaii Cupcakes said:


> excuse me but I find this extremely unnecessary
> have you ever read the quaran? have you ever read through any of these religious texts?
> there are *0* words in the quaran about killing others in order to follow God's words
> these people aren't following the quaran but an extreme interpretation of it
> ...



Sorry for starting a debate now but, a passage in the Quran uses these words "Kill the non-believer"


----------



## shunishu (Nov 13, 2015)

Chocofruit said:


> ....



you are making yourself look very bad and ignorant right now.. stop.


----------



## nerdatheart9490 (Nov 13, 2015)

Kawaii Cupcakes said:


> excuse me but I find this extremely unnecessary
> have you ever read the quaran? have you ever read through any of these religious texts?
> there are *0* words in the quaran about killing others in order to follow God's words
> these people aren't following the quaran but an extreme interpretation of it
> ...



I study religions as a hobby. You may want to take a look at this, because it is actually you who is ignorant. The Abrahamic religions all call for their people to murder in the name of God. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

shunishu said:


> you are making yourself look very bad and ignorant right now.. stop.



Well, I was expecting this, honestly.


----------



## Trundle (Nov 13, 2015)

gem83 said:


> I hope a mod closes this before it gets nasty. Religion and immigration debates? Really? People were killed! Please, guys!



I don't think anyone is getting nasty at all. Everyone who is talking right now is calmly stating points. You can pretend it's an argument but it's just conversation. Not to mention people die everyday like this in similar ways. Just because some terrorists got into the "safe haven" known as first world countries does not mean the problem is any more serious right now than it was 24 hours ago.


----------



## LambdaDelta (Nov 13, 2015)

Charcolor said:


> my girlfriend lives in paris what do i do



attempting to contact her and making sure she's safe seems like a good first step


----------



## Charcolor (Nov 13, 2015)

Bowie said:


> Contact her by the quickest methods you have and await a response. There's nothing else you can do at this point. Also, urge her to stay inside at all times.



i can't contact her
i haven't been able to since august


----------



## shunishu (Nov 13, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> Well, I was expecting this, honestly.



close this thread then?? are you for real.


----------



## mogyay (Nov 13, 2015)

shunishu said:


> close this thread then?? are you for real.



i don't think you can close basement threads


----------



## Lauren9667 (Nov 13, 2015)

I find it awful. No city in the entire world should have to experience something as horrible as that. Rest in Peace to the hundreds already dead.


----------



## oswaldies (Nov 13, 2015)

I broke down, started to cry and panic, I'm absolutely terrified, I can't handle this.


----------



## gem83 (Nov 13, 2015)

Trundle said:


> I don't think anyone is getting nasty at all. Everyone who is talking right now is calmly stating points. You can pretend it's an argument but it's just conversation. Not to mention people die everyday like this in similar ways. Just because some terrorists got into the "safe haven" known as first world countries does not mean the problem is any more serious right now than it was 24 hours ago.



Notice how I said _before_ it gets nasty. It isn't yet but it has every possibility of getting there.


----------



## Trundle (Nov 13, 2015)

gem83 said:


> Notice how I said _before_ it gets nasty. It isn't yet but it has every possibility of getting there.



Every thread on the forum has the potential to get nasty. Do you suggest we close every single thread just in case one of them might get nasty? Mods are here to keep things civil. While things are still civil, stop trying to mini mod please.


----------



## Kawaii Cupcakes (Nov 13, 2015)

nerdatheart9490 said:


> I study religions as a hobby. You may want to take a look at this, because it is actually you who is ignorant. The Abrahamic religions all call for their people to murder in the name of God. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm



I will clarify, because I'm not ignorant I'm a Shi'ite Muslim and I have been studying the quaran for as long as I can remember
don't you dare call me ignorant it's you that doesn't know what you are talking about
these verses are against those who attacked the prophets of god who killed the Muslims mercilessly 
maybe you should study a bit more before you speak


----------



## Zane (Nov 13, 2015)

nerdatheart9490 said:


> I study religions as a hobby. You may want to take a look at this, because it is actually you who is ignorant. The Abrahamic religions all call for their people to murder in the name of God. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm



studying religion as a hobby isn't quite the same thing as actually being of that religion.
http://islamophobia132.weebly.com/the-religion-of-peace-and-islam-watch.html

But now isn't the time to discuss this. Thoughts are with the people of France.


----------



## Tao (Nov 13, 2015)

gem83 said:


> Notice how I said _before_ it gets nasty. It isn't yet but it has every possibility of getting there.



May as well close the entire forum if that's your logic.


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

shunishu said:


> close this thread then?? are you for real.



People are going to do whatever they can to get into arguments.

- - - Post Merge - - -

This is about the death count.


----------



## gem83 (Nov 13, 2015)

Jesus christ, I was just stating that I didn't want this thread to spiral directly into hell, especially when this is going on in France. I just find it disrespectful to point fingers and play the "I'm right you're wrong" game over a situation like this. Sorry if that offends everyone, didn't realize I'm not allowed to be concerned about fights breaking out.


----------



## oath2order (Nov 13, 2015)

I saw this.

This is nice.


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

mogyay said:


> i don't think you can close basement threads



I wasn't even planning on closing the thread anyway.


----------



## nerdatheart9490 (Nov 13, 2015)

Zane said:


> studying religion as a hobby isn't quite the same thing as actually being of that religion.
> http://islamophobia132.weebly.com/the-religion-of-peace-and-islam-watch.html
> 
> But now isn't the time to discuss this. Thoughts are with the people of France.



You're right. It's not the same. Because I had no one to indoctrinate me and brainwash me into ignoring specific parts of the religion. I can go into a religion with a clean slate and an open mind. I can see the good and the evil without prejudice. 

And what I've found is that God/Allah based religions are horrible things that promote rape, sexism, slavery, and murder.

And @Kawaii Cupcakes, I don't care about the reason. The God of that religion is still demanding that his people slaughter others. That is not a religion of peace. It's like that part of the Bible where God tells his followers to kill infants, fetuses, and mothers who are pregnant. I don't care about the reason for it. He still ordered his followers to kill people. He flooded the world. God/Allah is a man of murder, and you can't see it because you were raised in an environment that conditioned you to think that his violence was love.

You know what we normal people call that? Abuse. 

We wouldn't have to worry about Isis and other crap like that if people didn't still believe in stories your parents used to scare you with in order to make you behave as a child.


----------



## Trundle (Nov 13, 2015)

gem83 said:


> Jesus christ, I was just stating that I didn't want this thread to spiral directly into hell, especially when this is going on in France. I just find it disrespectful to point fingers and play the "I'm right you're wrong" game over a situation like this. Sorry if that offends you.



It's okay, I don't really get offended. I'm pretty sure it's possible to respect the deceased and those in danger while still making conversation with chums. Obviously if no one ever discusses these issues they will never be solved. Your ideology really reminds me of Stephen Harper's to be completely honest. No offense.


----------



## mogyay (Nov 13, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> I wasn't even planning on closing the thread anyway.



i know it wasn't directed at you


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

nerdatheart9490 said:


> You're right. It's not the same. Because I had no one to indoctrinate me and brainwash me into ignoring specific parts of the religion. I can go into a religion with a clean slate and an open mind. I can see the good and the evil without prejudice.
> 
> And what I've found is that God/Allah based religions are horrible things that promote rape, sexism, slavery, and murder.
> 
> ...



Now, one things I do *not* want is to for anyone to be offended in the thread. While I don't tolerate terrorism either, this could offend people of any religion, really.


----------



## mogyay (Nov 13, 2015)

nerdatheart9490 said:


> You're right. It's not the same. Because I had no one to indoctrinate me and brainwash me into ignoring specific parts of the religion. I can go into a religion with a clean slate and an open mind. I can see the good and the evil without prejudice.
> 
> And what I've found is that God/Allah based religions are horrible things that promote rape, sexism, slavery, and murder.
> 
> ...



i can't imagine how much more vulnerable people who follow the religion of islam will feel, how many more unprovoked attacks they will now receive on a daily basis (where i live it's frighteningly common), how people are ignorant about their religion. please stop. we understand you don't agree with religion, this is not the place for it.


----------



## gem83 (Nov 13, 2015)

Trundle said:


> It's okay, I don't really get offended. I'm pretty sure it's possible to respect the deceased and those in danger while still making conversation with chums. Obviously if no one ever discusses these issues they will never be solved. Your ideology really reminds me of Stephen Harper's to be completely honest. No offense.



I didn't even say it was already an argument, are you even reading what I'm posting? I stated my own personal concerns, that this would become a nasty fight. I'm really sorry if that's wrong of me.


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

mogyay said:


> i can't imagine how much more vulnerable people who follow the religion of islam will feel, how many more unprovoked attacks they will now receive on a daily basis (where i live it's frighteningly common), how people are ignorant about their religion. please stop. we understand you don't agree with religion, this is not the place for it.



I agree with this statement. Islam is the second most religion followed in the world, there's no telling what kind of effect this attack will have on it. 9/11 already affected the treatment of Muslims bad enough.


----------



## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 13, 2015)

Threads wouldn't be so bad if people didn't think so black and white, and didn't just aim to attack anyone with an opposing view.

On topic, I don't think we'll get answers for a while. The French government is going to have to sort this out. So be wary of any news we get for the next few days.


----------



## Trundle (Nov 13, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> I agree with this statement. Islam is the second most religion followed in the world, there's no telling what kind of effect this attack will have on it. 9/11 already affected the treatment of Muslims bad enough.



Yeah it's pretty terrible. While these terrorists targeted innocent people directly, they also did the same indirectly to people who follow Islam as they will be treated very poorly when in reality they are completely innocent, just like the people who died.


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 13, 2015)

hariolari said:


> Threads wouldn't be so bad if people didn't think so black and white, and didn't just aim to attack anyone with an opposing view.
> 
> On topic, I don't think we'll get answers for a while. The French government is going to have to sort this out. So be wary of any news we get for the next few days.



Apparently the exact death count is unknown.


----------



## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 13, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> Apparently the exact death count is unknown.


And it will be. Some missing are dead, and some will die in hospital. Death counts can't be accurate until after the fact.


----------



## LambdaDelta (Nov 13, 2015)

nerdatheart9490 said:


> You're right. It's not the same. Because I had no one to indoctrinate me and brainwash me into ignoring specific parts of the religion. I can go into a religion with a clean slate and an open mind. I can see the good and the evil without prejudice.
> 
> And what I've found is that God/Allah based religions are horrible things that promote rape, sexism, slavery, and murder.
> 
> ...



and singling out every person that follows something you don't agree with as an idiot that has full responsibility for an extremist faction's actions makes you the better person

for someone who can apparently tell the difference between good and evil, you sure fail hard at judging yourself

you know what normal people call that? hypocritical


----------



## oath2order (Nov 13, 2015)

Spoiler: Language










Stolen from reddit


----------



## Vida (Nov 13, 2015)

There was actually a bomb threat for the hotel where the German national soccer team was staying in the morning. Looking at all this now, this was some omnious foreshadowing. 

This is so terrible.


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## Damniel (Nov 13, 2015)

It's truly a tragic event...


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## Shirohibiki (Nov 13, 2015)

My heart hurts. This is so awful. All of France has my prayers, as well as those surrounding. I can only hope not many more will die. My best of wishes to everyone. Stay safe.


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## nerdatheart9490 (Nov 13, 2015)

LambdaDelta said:


> and singling out every person that follows something you don't agree with as an idiot that has full responsibility for an extremist faction's actions makes you the better person
> 
> for someone who can apparently tell the difference between good and evil, you sure fail hard at judging yourself
> 
> you know what normal people call that? hypocritical



Funny, I don't remember calling anyone an idiot, or saying that I was better than anyone else.

Everyone is capable of seeing good and evil, unless they have some sort of mental problem. Like sociopaths or something. Hitler killed millions of people. Evil. My high school English teacher adopted three children and had us do fund raisers for them when their parents died within a year of each other. Good.

But religion is designed to be done by indoctrinating children too young to understand what they are learning. That's how religion goes on. Getting them involved when they cannot see good an evil. They only know to follow what their parents taught them. And so they grow up believing that God is good, rather than seeing the truth. Religion is a tool used to control people through fear. And it leads to things like what's going down in the Middle East. Or what happened during the Dark Ages.


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## FelicityShadow (Nov 13, 2015)

My roommate and I were horrified to find this in the news. :/ I really hope people don't blame parties who are not responsible for the tragedy such as Muslims and the refugees. I'll be watching and praying as the story unfolds. I hope everyone stays safe.


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## Kawaii Cupcakes (Nov 13, 2015)

...anyways I hope everyone in France is okay

My heart hurts for those affected


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## GamingKittenCorp (Nov 13, 2015)

I wasn't aware this thread was here and started one for prayers/positive energy/healing for Paris and the american band Eagles of Death Metal. My heart goes out to everyone and I lit a candle for them. I wish there was more I could do. I want to make and send cards but my sister said we'd need an address because we can't just send it to Paris and she said we probably shouldn't use a government address for a while. :/


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## NerdHouse (Nov 13, 2015)

GamingKittenCorp said:


> I want to make and send cards but my sister said we'd need an address because we can't just send it to Paris and she said we probably shouldn't use a government address for a while. :/



That's good advice. You've done all you can do. Unless any charitable organizations have started a relief fund or anything like that where you can freely donate.


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## JellyLu (Nov 14, 2015)

I didn't know this was happening until a friend posted the video where the explosion could be heard during the soccer match...and it really terrified me. I've been watching the news ever since.

It makes me really upset that people are doing this to each other. It makes me upset because innocent people were killed and to think how many families are grieving right now at the losses. To just be out on the town enjoying yourself and then something like THIS happens....unbelievable. There was a shooting at my university and that was scary so I can't BEGIN to imagine how this  impacted the people of Paris ;; My heart goes out to them and my prayers are lifting them up...

I'm also scared.  Scared for the racism-induced problems this will bring up again and more importantly....what if Paris was just the beginning? ><
Oh man (sorry I got carried away...)


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## GamingKittenCorp (Nov 14, 2015)

Chroma Red said:


> That's good advice. You've done all you can do. Unless any charitable organizations have started a relief fund or anything like that where you can freely donate.



I just wish I could send uplifting drawings and cookies or homemade whoopie pies like my Nana used to send me when I was a chitlin and she was alive. It seems pointless but I just remember how happy and cared for it would make me feel.


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## radical6 (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm scared my family in France might be dead.

Not all of them have responded.


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## GamingKittenCorp (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm really scared, I really am. This isn't a story or a horror movie, this is real life. Paris has not done anything bad to anyone and get attacked. WHY. I'm scared for justice's family who hasn't responded, anyone who has family there, just everyone in the world. Was this for sure ISIS? Are they attacking systematically all countries? I'm afraid for all countries, for animals, for everyone. This needs to be stopped but if it is ISIS can they be stopped or are they too big of a group? I don't like being afraid, no one likes to be afraid and I can't even wrap my mind around these horrors.


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## radical6 (Nov 14, 2015)

GamingKittenCorp said:


> I'm really scared, I really am. This isn't a story or a horror movie, this is real life. Paris has not done anything bad to anyone and get attacked. WHY. I'm scared for justice's family who hasn't responded, anyone who has family there, just everyone in the world. Was this for sure ISIS? Are they attacking systematically all countries? I'm afraid for all countries, for animals, for everyone. This needs to be stopped but if it is ISIS can they be stopped or are they too big of a group? I don't like being afraid, no one likes to be afraid and I can't even wrap my mind around these horrors.



No reports yet, but people are assuming they're ISIS, yes.

I do have family in the Paris area who reported they were okay, which is good, but I don't know about the rest. 

ISIS was created thanks to the United States. ISIS is just the aftermath of the US going in and ****ing **** up. They're better known as the Daesh I believe in other countries, but ISIS plays on young muslims.

Their propaganda is really effective. Basically, their message is that the west hates muslims and will kill them. Young, confused, and lost muslims turn to them as an act of desperation.

Ironically, they only cause their own destruction. But they don't care.

The United States could go in full force and take them out, with a full on war. They could nuke the whole area. But they won't.

Really, the only way to slow them down is to stop their recruitment. Backlash against muslims in france especially is already escalating. This attack will do nothing but only make it reach the breaking point. This will only lead to more muslims joining ISIS, because people are very much helping the message that the West Hates Muslims. 

Don't believe anyone who says ISIS is going to attack London, Rome, or Washington DC. They're not that stupid.

Also, meanwhile the attack in France, ISIS suicide bombed a funeral for a Shia Muslim I believe in Baghdad. 

They also suicide bombed and killed 43 people in Lebanon. 

These attacks are normal, but you never hear about them. This Paris one is just more widescale, and you know happening in Europe.


----------



## GamingKittenCorp (Nov 14, 2015)

justice said:


> No reports yet, but people are assuming they're ISIS, yes.
> 
> I do have family in the Paris area who reported they were okay, which is good, but I don't know about the rest.
> 
> ...



I wasn't aware we were the cause of ISIS..I'm so sorry just please know not all americans support troops being in the middle east and I've thought they should be out of there for a long time. I'm scared and don't know if this will ever stop or if ISIS can be stopped. Wouldn't nuking just cause a ton more backlash, civilian deaths and widespread radiation poisoning and effects? I'm just afraid and want it to end and am ashamed to be from the country that seems to have caused all this. From the bottom of my heart I hope all your family is okay.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 14, 2015)

justice said:


> No reports yet, but people are assuming they're ISIS, yes.
> 
> I do have family in the Paris area who reported they were okay, which is good, but I don't know about the rest.
> 
> ...


ISIS is not the cause of the U.S. You're thinking of the U.S. funding and baking Sadam Hussien. U.S. And Tussia combined did play a role in the current state of the Middle East. This dates back to the Cold War and later Dessert Strom. So if you are going to blame the U.S., also blame the former U.S.S.R.

The problem with fighting terrorist groups is that they are idealist groups. Killing the idea itself is very hard. By killing key meme bets you also make martyrs. It's not really possible to go to war with an idea. Especially with so many innocents involved and close by.


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## radical6 (Nov 14, 2015)

hariolari said:


> ISIS is not the cause of the U.S. You're thinking of the U.S. funding and baking Sadam Hussien. U.S. And Tussia combined did play a role in the current state of the Middle East. This dates back to the Cold War and later Dessert Strom. So if you are going to blame the U.S., also blame the former U.S.S.R.
> 
> The problem with fighting terrorist groups is that they are idealist groups. Killing the idea itself is very hard. By killing key meme bets you also make martyrs. It's not really possible to go to war with an idea. Especially with so many innocents involved and close by.



What happens when you go in and leave a country in shambles? ISIS was formed as a response to the instability. 

Russia/USSR obviously isn't perfect, but I've heard they've killed more ISIS members than the U.S has. Though I heard that's because they classify anyone anti Assad as ISIS, but I haven't looked much into those reports yet.

Regardless, they formed because of the U.S causing instability in the region. This is just an after effect of the U.S going in and ruining places as usual. 

ISIS isn't going to die anytime soon. Their attacks are just growing more extreme, and they want the west to become paranoid of muslims. That just leads more muslims to their cause.


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## DJStarstryker (Nov 14, 2015)

justice said:


> The United States could go in full force and take them out, with a full on war.* They could nuke the whole area. *But they won't.



That was be extraordinarily stupid if they did for lots of reasons, and none of them have to do with ISIS or terrorism. What happened to the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (the vast majority who were not military people) back in 1945 should explain my reasoning for this.


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## GamingKittenCorp (Nov 14, 2015)

The problem with fighting terrorist groups is that they are idealist groups. Killing the idea itself is very hard. By killing key meme bets you also make martyrs. It's not really possible to go to war with an idea. Especially with so many innocents involved and close by.[/QUOTE]

What if we took in the young muslims that go into ISIS that feel as if they have no other choice? Give them different ideas before they're given those terrible ideals? Wouldn't that at least weaken ISIS? Apparently president Obama is saying ISIS was contained the day before the attacks (so yesterday my time) does this mean it wasn't ISIS or it was and it's a last attack before they're taken out? This is all just confusing and I feel like a scared, lost child. Which I'm sure is how horrible terrorists aim to make people feel.


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## HungryForCereal (Nov 14, 2015)

where is yagami light when you need him?


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## radical6 (Nov 14, 2015)

DJStarstryker said:


> That was be extraordinarily stupid if they did for lots of reasons, and none of them have to do with ISIS or terrorism. What happened to the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (the vast majority who were not military people) back in 1945 should explain my reasoning for this.



I never said they should, but they have the potential to. Obviously I don't want everyone in that region to die, because many are just innocent locals.

I don't really want to change the topic to ISIS now, because we don't even know if ISIS attacked Paris or not. 

Whatever, I'm just depressed hearing the news. Hoping my family is okay, but I'm tired of this ****. If I wake up and they're dead then I don't really know what I'll do. 

I know 140 out of 60 million is a small chance for them to actually be dead, but you never know. I wish they just stayed back in Vietnam instead of moving to France, ugh.


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## DJStarstryker (Nov 14, 2015)

justice said:


> I never said they should, but they have the potential to. Obviously I don't want everyone in that region to die, because many are just innocent locals.



Yeah, that was my point. The problem with ISIS too is that they aren't just located in one country. You can't just drop a bomb on Iraq or Syria and expect ISIS to be gone. They're spread out. 

Also, an additional problem with ISIS is it's not just the US' fault that they have grown. ISIS is mostly located in poor countries where people don't have many choices for jobs. These terrorist organizations will sometimes tell a person that if they blow themselves up for ISIS' cause, then ISIS will take care of their family for them. If you are desperate and have no other way to take care of your family, then you might decide to do it.


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## radical6 (Nov 14, 2015)

DJStarstryker said:


> Yeah, that was my point. The problem with ISIS too is that they aren't just located in one country. You can't just drop a bomb on Iraq or Syria and expect ISIS to be gone. They're spread out.
> 
> Also, an additional problem with ISIS is it's not just the US' fault that they have grown. ISIS is mostly located in poor countries where people don't have many choices for jobs. These terrorist organizations will sometimes tell a person that if they blow themselves up for ISIS' cause, then ISIS will take care of their family for them. If you are desperate and have no other way to take care of your family, then you might decide to do it.



Last thing I'm saying on this subject because the attacks tire me out, but really why are those countries poor in the first place? Why are a lot of them unstable? It's very easy to point to Western nations, or the U.S especially. 

If you tell them it's the west's fault they're poor (which is partly true) then they have a common enemy to rally against. I know they have other bull**** like "join ISIS and you'll have 9 women to use" or other disgusting ****. 

But they're definetely using the fear the west has of muslims against the west itself. These people realize that the reason their country is in shambles is because of the U.S, and all of a sudden a group comes in and plays on this. 

Most people, I like to think, in the right state of mind would never commit such acts. But these people are desperate and at their breaking point. They're tired of the west coming in and ****ing **** up. 

There's also because religious differences, like wanting to take out all the Shia muslims.

I'll continue this discussion in PM with you or anyone else, but I don't want to derail this thread into an ISIS thread.


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## GamingKittenCorp (Nov 14, 2015)

snoozit said:


> where is yagami light when you need him?



AMEN. Take them down, Light! If only it were that easy. :/ (btw Makoto is definitely bae)

- - - Post Merge - - -

I guess there's a migrating immigration group of some sort going through Europe destroying and terrorizing cities? There's videos being taken down and re uploaded on youtube constantly with footage of all this happening. The videos called "with open gates" it has brutal violence but I think explains a lot. I guess it has to do with refugees going to Germany?


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## Kawaii Cupcakes (Nov 14, 2015)

justice said:


> No reports yet, but people are assuming they're ISIS, yes
> 
> Also, meanwhile the attack in France, ISIS suicide bombed a funeral for a Shia Muslim I believe in Baghdad.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this whole reply
Especially the last part because one of my close family friends was caught in the Shia bombing


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## Watchingthetreetops (Nov 14, 2015)

I would hate to see any more hatred associated with nuclear power; I would hate for a nuclear bomb to be detonated anywhere.  My thoughts are with the dead, and those affected by the dead.  I am going to take a moment to meditate on this, and send my energies to those who are in need of acceptance and guidance.  For those in or near the area, please be careful.


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## Izzy Reincarnated (Nov 14, 2015)

I sense a World War 3 coming.


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## Tao (Nov 14, 2015)

GamingKittenCorp said:


> I guess there's a migrating immigration group of some sort going through Europe destroying and terrorizing cities? There's videos being taken down and re uploaded on youtube constantly with footage of all this happening. The videos called "with open gates" it has brutal violence but I think explains a lot. I guess it has to do with refugees going to Germany?





Spoiler:  I just watched the video.



It's about immigration in Europe as a whole. How we're letting everybody in, how the EU leaders are wanting this to happen and brainwashing citizens into accepting it. It's mostly focused on Muslims and how they're trying to enforce their Saria(?) laws, exterminate non Muslim/middle eastern people, increases in violence rape etc against non muslims by muslims. There's a lot of stuff.

It's propaganda essentially, aiming for stricter immigration and deportation laws primarily against Muslims. My thoughts around all that are for a different topic though.



The relevance of the video to the France attack will be that if it *was* ISIS, stricter immigration could have possibly stopped them from even entering the country in the first place.


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## radical6 (Nov 14, 2015)

Kawaii Cupcakes said:


> Thank you for this whole reply
> Especially the last part because one of my close family friends was caught in the Shia bombing



I'm really sorry to hear that. I hope they're okay and at peace, the bombing sounded horrific.


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## Izzy Reincarnated (Nov 14, 2015)

I am shocked to found out my friend had died in the shooting. I am panicking right now and I'm about to cry.


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## Shirohibiki (Nov 14, 2015)

Izzy Reincarnated said:


> I am shocked to found out my friend had died in the shooting. I am panicking right now and I'm about to cry.



I'm so, so sorry. I cannot tell you how sorry I am for your loss, and for your friend. My heart goes out to you and all of those they knew. -hugs-

I'm also sorry, again, to everyone else affected by this. I hope everyone stays safe and that no more lives are lost.


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## sej (Nov 14, 2015)

Izzy Reincarnated said:


> I am shocked to found out my friend had died in the shooting. I am panicking right now and I'm about to cry.



I am so sorry omg, best wishes to you and anyone else who knew her :'(

- - - Post Merge - - -

*Why*, why do people need to do this to innocent people, killing innocent lives.


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## Izzy Reincarnated (Nov 14, 2015)

Thanks guys, omg, I really don't know what to do right nowwwww IM SUPER MAD RIGHT NOW UGH


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## Titi (Nov 14, 2015)

More "luck" on my side, my friends and family in the area have all reported that they are safe.

@Izzy: So sorry for your loss, where was your friend?


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## Izzy Reincarnated (Nov 14, 2015)

Titi said:


> More "luck" on my side, my friends and family in the area have all reported that they are safe.
> 
> @Izzy: So sorry for your loss, where was your friend?



I was told by her friend she was at the Bataclan concert.  : (


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## Reindeer (Nov 14, 2015)

Tao said:


> The relevance of the video to the France attack will be that if it *was* ISIS, stricter immigration could have possibly stopped them from even entering the country in the first place.


ISIS has claimed responsibility. France confirmed.

Maybe now countries will take the claims ISIS made last year seriously. They said back then that they would put sleeper cells in a large stream of migrants. With the current EU policies they had an easy entrance.

No wonder that anti-EU parties have been gaining in popularity over the last few months. People are realizing how little power their country has when the EU speaks. More countries should've reacted like Hungary, closing the borders against the orders of the EU.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Izzy Reincarnated said:


> I am shocked to found out my friend had died in the shooting. I am panicking right now and I'm about to cry.


I'm sorry for your loss.


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## KarlaKGB (Nov 14, 2015)

it is already known that daesh have entered europe as part of the migrant flow, this is nothing new. the spooks have been warning about this for a long time.


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## Dinosaurz (Nov 14, 2015)

The whole world should team up and attack them.. This means war! I can't stand it, too many people are dying...


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## Reindeer (Nov 14, 2015)

Slammint said:


> The whole world should team up and attack them.. This means war! I can't stand it, too many people are dying...


Declaring war would mean giving legitimacy to their claim as a state, which in turn would lead to more radicalized individuals and more terrorist attacks.


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## Celestefey (Nov 14, 2015)

It's so terrible to think that this is our world and that this is actually happening to people. It seems like a nightmare... I just don't understand why people would do this, why would they purposefully want to hurt somebody and take their life away from them? It's truly upsetting and sick and it makes me worry for the future of our world. It makes our planet a terrifying place to be on sometimes. I think all the nice people should move to Mars and live happily ever after. That would be nice but... Uh, maybe a bit unrealistic. xD

But we shouldn't give the terrorists any attention or show any fear, because that's exactly what they want. We should mourn those who have died from this tragic incident because they are the ones who matter and they did not deserve to suffer through this, but we should not give the terrorists the attention that they want and the fear they live off of. It's in desperate times like this we all need to show solidarity and that we won't let this continue any more, because we are normal human beings who deserve to live happily on this earth and not worry about our lives being taken away from us.


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## Dinosaurz (Nov 14, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> Declaring war would mean giving legitimacy to their claim as a state, which in turn would lead to more radicalized individuals and more terrorist attacks.



Don't you think enough people have died already though?
It can't go on anymore...


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## Celestefey (Nov 14, 2015)

Slammint said:


> Don't you think enough people have died already though?
> It can't go on anymore...



It's a bit rash to suddenly claim we have to go to war. This really is not an easy situation for us to solve and just suddenly making such a big decision like that out of no where is most likely going to end badly. No matter what choice we make, we have to be careful with it so we don't lose any MORE innocent lives than we already have. It's not easy. :\


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## Reindeer (Nov 14, 2015)

Slammint said:


> Don't you think enough people have died already though?
> It can't go on anymore...


I already thought enough people had died to terrorism before 9/11 happened. My point was that if the idea is to eradicate ISIS, then countries can only continue what they have been doing in Iraq and Syria. Declaring war will just make more radicals join their ranks and perform attacks in Western countries.

Let me explain it like this. In the last few months, there have already been protests in London, The Hague and Hannover to instate Sharia law in those regions or even the entire country, with hundreds of supporters. Declaring war on the daesh in the Middle East would, by their logic, also mean declaring war on them. And that's only one group of radicals.

It's a sad state of affairs, one I doubt any sane person likes. But I think giving into their demands, of wanting to be a state recognized by other countries, will only work against us.


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## Cirice (Nov 14, 2015)

Something that's making me angry is that the WHOLE WORLD care more about what happened in France than every french people I could have seen today. A lot of them were saying "Well I don't care it didn't happened to us." But I had to remind them it happened to OUR country ! - plus we're like 30 minutes from Paris, my History teacher had friends at the Bataclan theatre this night and just didn't sleep this night - but, nobody cared about it. 
I just want to say thank you to everybody around the world who cares about humanity.


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## Titi (Nov 14, 2015)

dpZ said:


> Something that's making me angry is that the WHOLE WORLD care more about what happened in France than every french people I could have seen today. A lot of them were saying "Well I don't care it didn't happened to us." But I had to remind them it happened to OUR country ! - plus we're like 30 minutes from Paris, my History teacher had friends at the Bataclan theatre this night and just didn't sleep this night - but, nobody cared about it.
> I just want to say thank you to everybody around the world who cares about humanity.



I don't know what kind of people you are hanging out with, my circle of friends and family are definitely concerned and not all of us are parisian... France does care.


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## tearypastel (Nov 14, 2015)

dpZ said:


> Something that's making me angry is that the WHOLE WORLD care more about what happened in France than every french people I could have seen today. A lot of them were saying "Well I don't care it didn't happened to us." But I had to remind them it happened to OUR country ! - plus we're like 30 minutes from Paris, my History teacher had friends at the Bataclan theatre this night and just didn't sleep this night - but, nobody cared about it.
> I just want to say thank you to everybody around the world who cares about humanity.



that's so horrible. i hope you gave those people hell for what they said.


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## Cirice (Nov 14, 2015)

Titi said:


> I don't know what kind of people you are hanging out with, my circle of friends and family are definitely concerned and not all of us are parisian... France does care.



Really bad educated students, I think. I know France care, but in my school they absolutely don't.


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## Titi (Nov 14, 2015)

In case anyone else knows people in the area, you can see on fb how many of them have declared themselves safe. You will see how many of your friends have marked themselves as safe and who. 
If they haven't you can request that they do.


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## Aestivate (Nov 14, 2015)

I think it's pretty sad that people see the current terrorist threat as the biggest problem here. After this is all gone, the government will help paris-centre get it's tourism back and everyhting will be back to 'normal'. When people hear 'Paris', they only think about the city centre, the Eiffel Tower, Arc de Triomphe, ect. 

Did you guys ever hear anything about the banlieues of Paris? Neighbourhoods where also millions of people live but were never anything reaches the news? Paris' banlieues are on of the most dangerous neighbourhoods in whole Europe. Ambulances don't even go there. But why would anyone care right? Strikes for better life circumstances in these neighbourhoods have been going on as long as the city excists but nobody cares.

To be clear. If you're now assuming I don't care about this terror, then you decided that for yourself and not due my comment because I didn't spill a word about not caring about these terrorist attacks. I care as much about these horrific situations in Paris as I care about these horrific situations anywhere else in this world. But the media decides to give undivided and politically and religiously influenced opinions and attention to these kind of happenings.


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## Reindeer (Nov 14, 2015)

Aestivate said:


> Did you guys ever hear anything about the banlieues of Paris? Neighbourhoods where also millions of people live but were never anything reaches the news? Paris' banlieues are on of the most dangerous neighbourhoods in whole Europe. Ambulances don't even go there. But why would anyone care right? Strikes for better life circumstances in these neighbourhoods have been going on as long as the city excists but nobody cares.


These kinds of neighborhoods have started to pop up in other cities as well, with the most talked about one(s) being located in Stockholm. Because those are more recent, they receive more attention, but I hope that the same kind of attention is then given to the French suburbs. And the proper attention needs to be given, because with the people in these regions feeling and being treated like outcasts, it is a prime place to hunt for individuals that can be radicalized.


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 14, 2015)

Wow, I must have missed quite a bit (I live in the United States, so I was asleep).


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## Trundle (Nov 14, 2015)

According to CNN, ISIS has taken responsibility for the attack.


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 14, 2015)

Trundle said:


> According to CNN, ISIS has taken responsibility for the attack.



This makes sense, as they had already taken responsibility for the one in Beirut.


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## Panazel Maria (Nov 14, 2015)

Trundle said:


> According to CNN, ISIS has taken responsibility for the attack.



*Oh, figures.*
I had been thinking about that for a little bit before I actually saw this message, thinking they might try to take the blame and the mass media try to pin it on them. Isn't that kinda what they want? It could be some other random underground group that committed this for all I know. I mean there's a pretty good positional difference between France and their hotspots.

And yeah, it's a complex scenario, but it's still one city. It's possible.


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## Dinosaurz (Nov 14, 2015)

Trundle said:


> According to CNN, ISIS has taken responsibility for the attack.



and according to BBC


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## Watchingthetreetops (Nov 14, 2015)

Slammint said:


> and according to BBC



This happened in the sixties, too.  When ever there was a bombing, four different groups would claim responsibility.  I wouldn't believe this until there's physical evidence.


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 14, 2015)

Slammint said:


> and according to BBC



And Fox News.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Watchingthetreetops said:


> This happened in the sixties, too.  When ever there was a bombing, four different groups would claim responsibility.  I wouldn't believe this until there's physical evidence.



Although, this is also true.


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## earthquake (Nov 14, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> It almost sounds like 9/11.



not really. the weight of the factors is far different. both are terrible but what needs to be done fro here on out needs to be different that what happened after 9/11.

how extremists can hurt innocent people makes little sense to me; how does this attack firther their goals? what is the motivation? what did they gain?

how is it that people can be so selfish that they can go in and shoot people down.

i agree about the banlieus of paris point - when the smaller people are in trouble people dont seem to care as much. 

france needs greater national security and this whole ordeal is a huge travesty.



im a little bit worried about the political aspect of it - when 9/11 happened i was just 1, and im muslim. ive had to grow up with the weight of islamophobia linked to fear of terrorists for my whole life. i know that there are muslims in france and i am certain that there will be people who will forget that these terrorists are extremists and muslims are not to blame.


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## NerdHouse (Nov 14, 2015)

Posting a source for the ISIS claiming responsibility, since no one else has.

Click me!

"In an online statement distributed by supporters Saturday, ISIS said eight militants wearing explosive belts and armed with machine guns attacked precisely selected areas in the French capital. "


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## piichinu (Nov 14, 2015)

TBH Muslims aren't going to get bullied and called terrorists 
Anyone middle eastern is

lol


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## Reindeer (Nov 14, 2015)

duck said:


> how extremists can hurt innocent people makes little sense to me; how does this attack firther their goals? what is the motivation? what did they gain?


The only thing they stand to gain from it is fear. That's all they want, and that's all that organized terrorism is. With this attack they wanted people to become afraid of even going out and doing things for fun. Look at the places they attacked: a cafe, a bistro, two restaurants, a stadium, and a concert hall. All places people go to have fun. This was not an attack on a country's economic or political system, but an attack on the freedom of its residents.


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## iamnothyper (Nov 14, 2015)

i cant even go through social media tags without getting annoyed. people need to remember that right now is a state of panic, distress, and mourning. it is not the time to be pointing fingers about how poorly our society handles social injustice on a regular basis, cause we all know it handles it poorly.


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## Colour Bandit (Nov 14, 2015)

One of my supervisors is in Paris now, she's staying a hotel about 5 minutes away from the football stadium... It was all panic on my Facebook last night as everyone was desperately trying to contact her, family, friends and colleagues, no one had heard anything from her after she posted about arriving at her hotel. This morning we had a team meeting (after our other supervisors and manager had had an emergency meeting) telling us her family had heard nothing and that if she contacts any of us to let them know and not spread rumours, etc. In this kind of situation you always think the worst, everyone was out of it today.

Until literally two hours ago that she marked herself safe on Facebook, she (and other tourists) had to be moved out of her hotel and she was too busy keeping herself safe to contact anyone. I'm really glad she's safe.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 14, 2015)

justice said:


> What happens when you go in and leave a country in shambles? ISIS was formed as a response to the instability.
> 
> Russia/USSR obviously isn't perfect, but I've heard they've killed more ISIS members than the U.S has. Though I heard that's because they classify anyone anti Assad as ISIS, but I haven't looked much into those reports yet.
> 
> ...


It goes back further than the U.S. killing suspected ISIS members. It goes back to the Cold War. Which goes back to WWII. Which goes back to WWI. You can't simplify it to just, "the U.S. destroyed them." Nothing in the world is that simple. It's too complex to simplify. There's no doubt the U.S. played a major role in the current state of the Middle East, but you can't just blindly see that and ignore other factors. You won't solve anything like that.

Russia currently is very hush hush about how they handle ISIS. They hide a lot. But they're currently more concerned with former satellite nations and recontrol of them. Kind of scary we turn a blind eye. But that's far off topic.

Our best combat against ISIS is rebuilding the Middle East. But that will take a long time. Tradition and belief runs deep, and it's going to take a very long time for people to learn anything new. Especially with the fighting still going on. It's hard to focus on rebuilding when you're immediate concern is not getting caught in the crossfire.

- - - Post Merge - - -



GamingKittenCorp said:


> > The problem with fighting terrorist groups is that they are idealist groups. Killing the idea itself is very hard. By killing key meme bets you also make martyrs. It's not really possible to go to war with an idea. Especially with so many innocents involved and close by.
> 
> 
> 
> What if we took in the young muslims that go into ISIS that feel as if they have no other choice? Give them different ideas before they're given those terrible ideals? Wouldn't that at least weaken ISIS? Apparently president Obama is saying ISIS was contained the day before the attacks (so yesterday my time) does this mean it wasn't ISIS or it was and it's a last attack before they're taken out? This is all just confusing and I feel like a scared, lost child. Which I'm sure is how horrible terrorists aim to make people feel.


They have. They have stopped several potential people from joining. It doesn't stop people. There are many radical things that people will continue to do and join.

There are also forced members of ISIS. We forget that they kidnap women and children for a purpose. We cannot ignore these members.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Slammint said:


> The whole world should team up and attack them.. This means war! I can't stand it, too many people are dying...


We already declared war.

- - - Post Merge - - -

ISIS has a history of claiming their own attacks, but also other's attacks. There are quite a few terrorist groups. I wouldn't fully trust everything you hear just yet. Give it some time to settle and be investigated.


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## Reindeer (Nov 14, 2015)

One of the terrorists has now been confirmed to have entered Greece posing as a refugee just last month.


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## jiny (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm really scared that they'll come for us now.. Are they? I'm shaking right now.


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## Princess (Nov 14, 2015)

This thread is definitely revealing who I never would want to hold a conversation with.


Anyway, I think all brown people (Muslims especially) can relate to that sinking feeling every time something like this happens. Yesterday was an absolutely terrible day for the world. I'm praying for everyone affected, and for every brown person who is about to receive the aftermath from islamaphobes.


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## iamnothyper (Nov 14, 2015)

slightly off topic, but i was wondering if anyone knew more about isis/other groups sentiments in the middle east. there was a chart going around about refugee sentiments towards isis ideals. i cant find it anymore nor do i know how accurate it is, but it was showing palestine and syria with the highest percentage of refugees who sympathized to some extent with the isis effort. 

i was wondering how this could be. if you are a refugee you are someone who has supposedly run away for shelter. western propaganda highlights _fear_ with all things isis, and i don't believe it is too far a stretch from what goes on there. im just kind of baffled by the idea of so many people being inclined to join these types of groups.


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## Princess (Nov 14, 2015)

iamnothyper said:


> slightly off topic, but i was wondering if anyone knew more about isis/other groups sentiments in the middle east. there was a chart going around about refugee sentiments towards isis ideals. i cant find it anymore nor do i know how accurate it is, but it was showing palestine and syria with the highest percentage of refugees who sympathized to some extent with the isis effort.
> 
> i was wondering how this could be. if you are a refugee you are someone who has supposedly run away for shelter. western propaganda highlights _fear_ with all things isis, and i don't believe it is too far a stretch from what goes on there. im just kind of baffled by the idea of so many people being inclined to join these types of groups.



One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.


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## iamnothyper (Nov 14, 2015)

Sugarella said:


> I'm really scared that they'll come for us now.. Are they? I'm shaking right now.



http://www.youngcons.com/isis-names-washington-as-one-of-the-cities-theyre-targeting-next/


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## Reindeer (Nov 14, 2015)

Sugarella said:


> I'm really scared that they'll come for us now.. Are they? I'm shaking right now.


Do not be afraid. That's what they want. You live in a free country and deserve to live in peace, and you should. The best way to let them know that they have no power here is by not buckling to their threats and attacks.

Countries are on high alert now. Just today, several raids have been carried out in various countries, with possibly the most important one in Belgium.

Stay strong, and be alert. That's all I can say.


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## iamnothyper (Nov 14, 2015)

Princess said:


> One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.



freedom from what specifically? the way western propaganda paints it is that isis and extremist groups like that are the oppressors. i can see how people in the middle east would bear resentment towards the US though?


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## Vida (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm praying for all the people in France. So many innocent people got killed. I'm at a loss for words on this.


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## nerdatheart9490 (Nov 14, 2015)

The worst part of this, to me, is that all of this sounds a lot like the start of WWII, as I learned it in history classes. There is a powerful force that wants to do bad things, and the people with the power to stop it are just appeasing the bad guys. "Yeah, you can do what you want. You want that country? Okay, just as long as you stay quiet. You can do whatever you want, just stay out of our hair."

In the case of Hitler, appeasing him lead to WWII. In this case, it has lead to the spread of ISIS and Islamic extremists. We're heading towards another world war, because those who have the power to stop ISIS, won't. At least this time around, France won't fall so easily.


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## Trundle (Nov 14, 2015)

iamnothyper said:


> http://www.youngcons.com/isis-names-washington-as-one-of-the-cities-theyre-targeting-next/



There is no actual proof to this at the moment and the article just links to a conspiracy site that literally just shows the image of this tweet.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 14, 2015)

iamnothyper said:


> freedom from what specifically? the way western propaganda paints it is that isis and extremist groups like that are the oppressors. i can see how people in the middle east would bear resentment towards the US though?


When you grow up in an area full of war and fighting, and someone comes in a promises a solution, you listen. There's also religious ties, kind of like how people can join the Westbro Baptist Church.

- - - Post Merge - - -



nerdatheart9490 said:


> The worst part of this, to me, is that all of this sounds a lot like the start of WWII, as I learned it in history classes. There is a powerful force that wants to do bad things, and the people with the power to stop it are just appeasing the bad guys. "Yeah, you can do what you want. You want that country? Okay, just as long as you stay quiet. You can do whatever you want, just stay out of our hair."
> 
> In the case of Hitler, appeasing him lead to WWII. In this case, it has lead to the spread of ISIS and Islamic extremists. We're heading towards another world war, because those who have the power to stop ISIS, won't. At least this time around, France won't fall so easily.


If anything, Russia is more similar to Germany pre-WWII. They have literally invaded and seized areas with no international resistance. They're amassing a military and won't say why.

No one has the power to stop ISIS. It's not a country or place. It's an idealist rebel group that hides and attacks at night. Much more similar to Vietnam than WWII.


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## iamnothyper (Nov 14, 2015)

Trundle said:


> There is no actual proof to this at the moment and the article just links to a conspiracy site that literally just shows the image of this tweet.



i realized that after the fact, as i was looking through the paris tag on facebook and this popped up. im currently searching and so far no US news outlets have commented on this. i dont see any official european news outlets talking about it either, but a buncha people are tweeting out warning about the hastag. which by the way means paris on fire if i'm not mistaken.


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## Reindeer (Nov 14, 2015)

iamnothyper said:


> slightly off topic, but i was wondering if anyone knew more about isis/other groups sentiments in the middle east. there was a chart going around about refugee sentiments towards isis ideals. i cant find it anymore nor do i know how accurate it is, but it was showing palestine and syria with the highest percentage of refugees who sympathized to some extent with the isis effort.
> 
> i was wondering how this could be. if you are a refugee you are someone who has supposedly run away for shelter. western propaganda highlights _fear_ with all things isis, and i don't believe it is too far a stretch from what goes on there. im just kind of baffled by the idea of so many people being inclined to join these types of groups.


I assume you mean the poll linked here.

I can't understand the reasoning behind it. There was a civil war going on in Syria and ISIS took advantage of that to gain so much ground. It could be that the refugees interviewed at the time came from areas attacked by the Syrian government or the rebels, or both, but not ISIS.

The fact there's been protests to instate Sharia law in European countries (as I mentioned earlier in the thread) only highlights the problem of this ignorance. The article also mentions that bringing in refugees in so many numbers can increase the chance of some radicalizing due to social isolation. They are also misinformed, thinking that Western countries will give them a comfortable way of living as soon as they arrive.

And speaking of those kinds of refugees, I feel it's important to put them in their place, so they can start thinking rationally. If you come into a country where you're given shelter, three meals a day, as well as some money to spend, complaining about how "awful" your conditions are makes you seem like an entitled ****. If they dislike the conditions under which all refugees have to live in European countries, they should return to their war-torn country and step on a mine. See how great the conditions in their own country are.


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## iamnothyper (Nov 14, 2015)

hariolari said:


> When you grow up in an area full of war and fighting, and someone comes in a promises a solution, you listen. There's also religious ties, kind of like how people can join the Westbro Baptist Church.





Reindeer said:


> snip



i see, that makes sense. i guess i just didnt really understand how people who were running away from all this could still sympathize with the extremist ideals.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 14, 2015)

iamnothyper said:


> i see, that makes sense. i guess i just didnt really understand how people who were running away from all this could still sympathize with the extremist ideals.


Refugees aren't necessarily fleeing the rebels, but the war itself. Their homes became unsafe and destroyed. They've lost everything. They flee to safety. This is usually when people are more open to suggestion and possibility. The rebel groups know this. They prey on it, almost.


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## jiny (Nov 14, 2015)

iamnothyper said:


> http://www.youngcons.com/isis-names-washington-as-one-of-the-cities-theyre-targeting-next/



No, just no. I am sick to my stomach, no. I don't live in either of those places but I'm still terribly frightened. 

All I can say, is that many innocent lives were lost in Paris. My condolences go out to the relatives of the people who died.


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## Dawnpiplup (Nov 14, 2015)

Omg, I just learned about this today this morning when my mom told me all about it. I just...can't believe it. All I can say is that the stupid ISIS terrorist group needs to go down. I mean, seriously! Lots of people have died because of the bombing of Friday the 13th yesterday. I just don't understand the people in ISIS...why would they do such a thing? It's just...unhuman. And I can't believe that some people are joining ISIS. I mean, what the heck? Join world peace, not this group that brings terror to the world...


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## Izzy Reincarnated (Nov 14, 2015)

And there are a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooot of muslims in France. My friend went there and told me about it.


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## Locket (Nov 14, 2015)

Sugarella said:


> No, just no. I am sick to my stomach, no. I don't want to die so young. I don't live in either of those places but I'm still terribly frightened.



That scared me.

OBAMA! MAKE UP YOUR MIND! GO INTO WAR WITH ISIS! JUST DO IT!


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## Celestefey (Nov 14, 2015)

Sugarella said:


> No, just no. I am sick to my stomach, no. I don't want to die so young. I don't live in either of those places but I'm still terribly frightened.



Don't worry so much. Chances are everyone is on very high alert right now after this incident that the possibility of anything like this happening again anytime soon are low. It could happen, there is a chance, but this has certainly been a huge wake-up call for many European countries, as well as America I am sure. We have to show solidarity and strength during this time. Do not panic or feed off of the fear that they are trying to create as that is exactly what they want. It's difficult to know what to do and it is alarming to think this is what is happening to our world, but people will do whatever they can to protect their country. When you look at the grand scheme of things, Paris is a large city, and only a small portion of those people died. Whilst the lives that were taken are still too many, everyone in Paris right now is pulling together and staying strong during a time of need. Don't let this threat make you feel so afraid that you are sick to your stomach.


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## Trundle (Nov 14, 2015)

Sugarella said:


> No, just no. I am sick to my stomach, no. I don't live in either of those places but I'm still terribly frightened.
> 
> All I can say, is that many innocent lives were lost in Paris. My condolences go out to the relatives of the people who died.



Well it's about time you wake up. There have been 325 shootings in the USA in 2015 alone so you're not really safe where you are either. 

http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015

Not to mention, while not on such a large scale, bombings and shootings happen all the time. It's just that it's usually not reported unless it's in a non third world country.


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## jiny (Nov 14, 2015)

Bunny Bento said:


> That scared me.
> 
> OBAMA! MAKE UP YOUR MIND! GO INTO WAR WITH ISIS! JUST DO IT!



I agree. We need war. It'll help our country. But I'm pretty sure the U.S military is doing something about it by now.



Celestefey said:


> Don't worry so much. Chances are everyone is on very high alert right now after this incident that the possibility of anything like this happening again anytime soon are low. It could happen, there is a chance, but this has certainly been a huge wake-up call for many European countries, as well as America I am sure. We have to show solidarity and strength during this time. Do not panic or feed off of the fear that they are trying to create as that is exactly what they want. It's difficult to know what to do and it is alarming to think this is what is happening to our world, but people will do whatever they can to protect their country. When you look at the grand scheme of things, Paris is a large city, and only a small portion of those people died. Whilst the lives that were taken are still too many, everyone in Paris right now is pulling together and staying strong during a time of need. Don't let this threat make you feel so afraid that you are sick to your stomach.




Um, okay. I asked my mom if we were going to be safe and she told me yes. We were watching the news last night and she was scared too, I could tell. All I hope is that things get better for us next year.


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## Trundle (Nov 14, 2015)

I hope you realize war just means more dead people for every party involved.


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## jiny (Nov 14, 2015)

Trundle said:


> Well it's about time you wake up. There have been 325 shootings in the USA in 2015 alone so you're not really safe where you are either.
> 
> http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015
> 
> Not to mention, while not on such a large scale, bombings and shootings happen all the time. It's just that it's usually not reported unless it's in a non third world country.



True, I saw two shooting where I live, which is San Antonio. Well, this is great. :/


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## iamnothyper (Nov 14, 2015)

hariolari said:


> Refugees aren't necessarily fleeing the rebels, but the war itself. Their homes became unsafe and destroyed. They've lost everything. They flee to safety. This is usually when people are more open to suggestion and possibility. The rebel groups know this. They prey on it, almost.



makes sense, thank you.

also, disclaimer that the tweet i posted before is still just speculation and not from an official source!


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## Aestivate (Nov 14, 2015)

Sugarella said:


> I agree. We need war. It'll help our country. But I'm pretty sure the U.S military is doing something about it by now.



You've the mindset of a person from the 15th century. War won't solve a single thing and will only make this situation worse. I hope people like you will one day understand that you're giving groups such as ISIS a motivation to kill.


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## N e s s (Nov 14, 2015)

War would only cause more commotion, plus more waste of human life. All life is precious, no matter what horrible or evil thing they do.
alot of this has to do with religion, people disagreeing with Isis.
I just wish that peace was a possibility here, but people are too selfish to think of that, its all WAR WAR WAR STOP MESSING WITH US


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 14, 2015)

Bunny Bento said:


> That scared me.
> 
> OBAMA! MAKE UP YOUR MIND! GO INTO WAR WITH ISIS! JUST DO IT!


The War on Terror already exists.


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## iamnothyper (Nov 14, 2015)

i understand that war is bad, i understand that the rest of the world in turmoil is what they want, but how else do you propose we deal with this situation? these are not people we can simply reason with. i don't think peace is much of an option at this point. this is already a war, by committing these acts of terrorism again and again, they have already declared war.


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## jiny (Nov 14, 2015)

iamnothyper said:


> makes sense, thank you.
> 
> also, disclaimer that the tweet i posted before is still just speculation and not from an official source!



oh okay. at first i was scared to pieces. good thing it isn't official


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## Aestivate (Nov 14, 2015)

iamnothyper said:


> i understand that war is bad, i understand that the rest of the world in turmoil is what they want, but how else do you propose we deal with this situation? these are not people we can simply reason with. i don't think peace is much of an option at this point. this is already a war, by committing these acts of terrorism again and again, they have already declared war.


If one group of individuals declares war then that doesn't mean it's a war. Please check your facts. The situation we're in right now is far away from being a war.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 14, 2015)

Aestivate said:


> If one group of individuals declares war then that doesn't mean it's a war. Please check your facts. The situation we're in right now is far away from being a war.


Except, we literally are at war and have been.


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## inkling (Nov 14, 2015)

I feel these terrorist attacks are similar to the shootings that happen all the time in the US. This kind of thing will never go away until we live in a society where every individual can prosper.


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## iamnothyper (Nov 14, 2015)

Aestivate said:


> If one group of individuals declares war then that doesn't mean it's a war. Please check your facts. The situation we're in right now is far away from being a war.



the war on terrorism already exists. and you never answered my question. you say war is bad, ok, what is your solution? if you think we are not in a state of war then it means we are simply being terrorized. what is the alternative to forcibly subduing these extremist groups?


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## crystalmilktea (Nov 14, 2015)

iamnothyper said:


> the war on terrorism already exists. and you never answered my question. you say war is bad, ok, what is your solution? if you think we are not in a state of war then it means we are simply being terrorized. what is the alternative to forcibly subduing these extremist groups?



the war on terrorism is pretty complicated-- it started almost 2 decades ago and hasn't made any progress, which is why countries have pulled troops out of there... as a normal person I can't provide any solution, but I don't think declaring war will help much either...


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## Aestivate (Nov 14, 2015)

iamnothyper said:


> the war on terrorism already exists. and you never answered my question. you say war is bad, ok, what is your solution? if you think we are not in a state of war then it means we are simply being terrorized. what is the alternative to forcibly subduing these extremist groups?



Again, there is no war going on. We are fighting against ISIS from a defense point of view and I don't have any serious problem with the way we're doing that right now. Maybe if you look back in history, then you'll see what starting a war for the purpose of freedom has caused and why most world leaders do not intend to go back to this.


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## Trundle (Nov 14, 2015)

Aestivate said:


> Again, there is no war going on. We are fighting against ISIS from a defense point of view and I don't have any serious problem with the way we're doing that right now. Maybe if you look back in history, then you'll see what starting a war for the purpose of freedom has caused and why most world leaders do not intend to go back to this.



I don't think you understand the definition of war.


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## leahhhhaaaaa (Nov 14, 2015)

Isis are saying London is next...:/


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## Aestivate (Nov 14, 2015)

Trundle said:


> I don't think you understand the definition of war.



Please tell me which country has declared war to ISIS then because I seem to have missed it.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 14, 2015)

Aestivate said:


> Again, there is no war going on. We are fighting against ISIS from a defense point of view and I don't have any serious problem with the way we're doing that right now. Maybe if you look back in history, then you'll see what starting a war for the purpose of freedom has caused and why most world leaders do not intend to go back to this.


Where have you been for the past 14 years?

- - - Post Merge - - -



Aestivate said:


> Please tell me which country has declared war to ISIS then because I seem to have missed it.


The War on Terror was declared in 2001.


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## iamnothyper (Nov 14, 2015)

crystalmilktea said:


> the war on terrorism is pretty complicated-- it started almost 2 decades ago and hasn't made any progress, which is why countries have pulled troops out of there... as a normal person I can't provide any solution, but I don't think declaring war will help much either...



i don't see much alternative to violence at this point though. these people are angry, irrational, and armed. their numbers are growing and our death toll will keep rising. its nice to say war is bad, but what else are we supposed to do? do we just keep waiting? until how many more die?

and this isnt even taking into account the number of civilian lives lost in the middle east.


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## Aestivate (Nov 14, 2015)

hariolari said:


> Where have you been for the past 14 years?
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> The War on Terror was declared in 2001.



I hope you realize that the War on Terror was a military campaign against terrorists without calling out a specific group or party and was not a declaration of war


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## iamnothyper (Nov 14, 2015)

Aestivate said:


> I hope you realize that the War on Terror was a military campaign against terrorists without calling out a specific group or party and was not a declaration of war



war _(noun)_: a state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/30/politics/syria-troops-special-operations-forces/
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/12/politics/u-s-airstrike-targets-jihadi-john-in-syria/

no, not war.

------

this is turning into a war on terror thread, so i'll just end this by saying we cant just sit here waiting for the next attack.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 14, 2015)

Aestivate said:


> I hope you realize that the War on Terror was a military campaign against terrorists without calling out a specific group or party and was not a declaration of war


Why do you think they didn't call out a specific group? Because they change. It covers ISIS, as well as many other groups. They never outright said just Al Qeada because they knew there were other groups and emergent groups.

You can argue about the samentics of war vs military campaigns, but the fact they named a military campaign with the word war in the title says enough.


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## Aestivate (Nov 14, 2015)

iamnothyper said:


> war _(noun)_: a state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/30/politics/syria-troops-special-operations-forces/
> http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/12/politics/u-s-airstrike-targets-jihadi-john-in-syria/
> ...



I guess everybody has different opinions about what is a war and what is not. Regardless of that, I don't see why anyone would think war is the solution here. Fighting back against ISIS is indeed the only option here as they don't let themselves be influenced by anything else, at least it is in my opinion. War would just mean that all countries that are against ISIS would declare it war. Then there's the problem that ISIS is not a country but a group of individuals within a country which causes law restrictions. This whole thing of some people saying ''just nuke them all'' or ''just kill them all'' is the countless times simplified action of what we're able to do in this situation. Countless of factors need to be taken in consideration which people such as you and I don't have any influence in, only high-political individuals. 

There are some far-right political groups here who think, and I'm sure these are statements that are made in other countries too, that we need to close all borders. Or even more right-winged, just don't let anybody in. Unless your country has declared itself neutral in this situation, then that isn't going to happen, I'm very sorry. And even if it did, I doubt members of ISIS will respect anyone's neutrality. To be honest, I personally don't see the whole connection with refugee crisis and terrorism as some people make them.

Oh, I guess I need to simplify my opinion for some people
Fighting back =/= war


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## iamnothyper (Nov 14, 2015)

> "Regardless of that, I don't see why anyone would think war is the solution here. Fighting back against ISIS is indeed the only option here as they don't let themselves be influenced by anything else, at least it is in my opinion."



i dont understand the point you are trying to make here. so we need to fight back but not engage in war? 

well this is too off-topic, so im just gonna agree to disagree with you.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Spoiler: official isis statement for the curious


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## santoyo.bay (Nov 14, 2015)

My heart goes out to all the people who were affected, keeping Paris in my thoughts.


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## The Hidden Owl (Nov 14, 2015)

iamnothyper said:


> i dont understand the point you are trying to make here. so we need to fight back but not engage in war?
> 
> well this is too off-topic, so im just gonna agree to disagree with you.
> 
> ...



And how do people say that the killings were not connected to religion?

Literally this whole statement was saying they killed for allah's sake.


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## iamnothyper (Nov 14, 2015)

The Hidden Owl said:


> And how do people say that the killings were not connected to religion?
> 
> Literally this whole statement was saying they killed for allah's sake.



they are saying their religion is being misrepresented. they are saying it is not connected to true islamic ideals. to the extremists all this is done in the name allah, but they are saying that is "fake" religion. terrorism has no religion.


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## The Hidden Owl (Nov 14, 2015)

Anyways, keep praying for the families and communities affected by the disaster.


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## Raffy (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm really scared about this.
I have an uncle living in Paris studying abroad, and I've never met him in person. 
I don't really have contact with him so I'm just hoping that my dad can talk to him on facebook or something.

It's a really horrible thing that horrible people are killing innocent citizens.


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## iamnothyper (Nov 14, 2015)

Raffy said:


> I'm really scared about this.
> I have an uncle living in Paris studying abroad, and I've never met him in person.
> I don't really have contact with him so I'm just hoping that my dad can talk to him on facebook or something.
> 
> It's a really horrible thing that horrible people are killing innocent citizens.



on facebook people can mark themselves as "safe" 
you guys can try to look and see if your uncle has done so?


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## Trundle (Nov 14, 2015)

Aestivate said:


> I guess everybody has different opinions about what is a war and what is not. Regardless of that, I don't see why anyone would think war is the solution here. Fighting back against ISIS is indeed the only option here as they don't let themselves be influenced by anything else, at least it is in my opinion. War would just mean that all countries that are against ISIS would declare it war. Then there's the problem that ISIS is not a country but a group of individuals within a country which causes law restrictions. This whole thing of some people saying ''just nuke them all'' or ''just kill them all'' is the countless times simplified action of what we're able to do in this situation. Countless of factors need to be taken in consideration which people such as you and I don't have any influence in, only high-political individuals.
> 
> There are some far-right political groups here who think, and I'm sure these are statements that are made in other countries too, that we need to close all borders. Or even more right-winged, just don't let anybody in. Unless your country has declared itself neutral in this situation, then that isn't going to happen, I'm very sorry. And even if it did, I doubt members of ISIS will respect anyone's neutrality. To be honest, I personally don't see the whole connection with refugee crisis and terrorism as some people make them.
> 
> ...



The Cold War never even had any battles. It was just countries building stronger and stronger nukes. You can have your opinion but all we're saying is that it doesn't make any sense.


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## crystalmilktea (Nov 14, 2015)

The Hidden Owl said:


> And how do people say that the killings were not connected to religion?
> 
> Literally this whole statement was saying they killed for allah's sake.



it's like how many Christians denounce and do not acknowledge Westborough Baptist church, or gunmen who kill because "God told them to"


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## Reindeer (Nov 14, 2015)

Aestivate said:


> To be honest, I personally don't see the whole connection with refugee crisis and terrorism as some people make them.


The connection is that one of them entered Europe in the migrant stream just last month. The daesh had threatened that this would happen last year, but for some reason it wasn't taken seriously. Now it's actually happened.

Right-wing people are rightfully angry over this. For months, they warned their countries, they asked for closed borders or heavy regulation, but instead they were silenced and called stuff like "racist" and "nazi". There won't be any apology to them, even though they were right.



Trundle said:


> The Cold War never even had any battles.


If you mean between the United States and Soviet Union directly, it didn't. However it did have proxy wars, where the US or USSR would support a country engaged in combat in an attempt to hurt the other.

The Syrian civil war is no different. Russia is supporting the Syrian government, while the US is supporting the rebels. Both (as well as other countries) are bombing the daesh because they are considered enemies by all.


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## visibleghost (Nov 14, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> The connection is that one of them entered Europe in the migrant stream just last month. The daesh had threatened that this would happen last year, but for some reason it wasn't taken seriously. Now it's actually happened.
> 
> Right-wing people are rightfully angry over this. For months, they warned their countries, they asked for closed borders or heavy regulation, but instead they were silenced and called stuff like "racist" and "nazi". There won't be any apology to them, even though they were right.
> 
> ...



yeah, well, if the right-wing people want to close the borders to all refugees it's really ****ty because there are several hundred thousands of refugees who aren't terrorists. they weren't right, they were racist. Yeah, it's a good idea to check who comes into the country to try to make sure they aren't terrorists, but it's not right to close borders or let a lot less people in.
 i hope racist parties over europe won't use this as an excuse to stop letting people into their countries because there are so many refugees that won't have anywhere to go then smh


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## Reindeer (Nov 14, 2015)

lencurryboy said:


> yeah, well, if the right-wing people want to close the borders to all refugees it's really ****ty because there are several hundred thousands of refugees who aren't terrorists. they weren't right, they were racist. Yeah, it's a good idea to check who comes into the country to try to make sure they aren't terrorists, but it's not right to close borders or let a lot less people in.
> i hope racist parties over europe won't use this as an excuse to stop letting people into their countries because there are so many refugees that won't have anywhere to go then smh


I personally am for heavy regulation, I think closing the borders entirely would be cruel. However, I also recognize the danger that they could radicalize here. The fact that some of them expect to be handed things on a silver platter contributes to their disappointment, and then some of those start having weird ideas, thinking they are being treated like that because they are Muslim (rather than realizing refugees of any creed or religion would be treated the same).

And European countries should have all the right to close their borders. If Middle Eastern countries can do it without any complaints, why can't they? Turkey has done really well in taking in refugees, but they're not the only ones that are capable. Saudi Arabia is safe, and has only taken in about 500 refugees. Kuwait is safe and has taken in 0. Qatar is safe and has taken in 0. The United Arab Emirates is safe and has taken in 0. There's a large list of countries that could have easily taken in refugees, but refused to. Nobody bats a ****ing eye at those borders being closed for refugees, but when a European country does it, like when Hungary closed theirs, everybody starts complaining.

These are unfair circumstances that people are unhappy with. That's the entire reason that anti-immigrant and anti-EU parties are gaining support. People want their country to be safe, and they want their country to be able to say refuse the EU's demands.


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## Knopekin (Nov 14, 2015)

For god's sake. 

The people who carried out these attacks are _the people the Syrian refugees are trying to get away from_. That's literally why they're fleeing the country where they were born, grew up, and had friends and family.

Poor Paris had a taste of what's been going on in Syria for ages. We should be more sympathetic to the refugees, not less.


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## piichinu (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm all for being sympathetic (most of my family is stuck in Syria) but idk if it's that safe to let every single person in 

Or at least that's what some of my relatives down there are saying


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## Reindeer (Nov 14, 2015)

Knopekin said:


> For god's sake.
> 
> The people who carried out these attacks are _the people the Syrian refugees are trying to get away from_. That's literally why they're fleeing the country where they were born, grew up, and had friends and family.
> 
> Poor Paris had a taste of what's been going on in Syria for ages. We should be more sympathetic to the refugees, not less.


Who was talking about not being sympathetic with them? It's terrible what's happened to them and they do need a place to go. All I tried to do was explain the thoughts of people on the right. I said I support heavy regulation, meaning that they still get in, the process just takes a bit longer.

And I also agree with the sentiment that European countries should be able to close their borders at all times. It's absolutely ridiculous that Muslim countries can do it without any repercussions, when it would alleviate many of the stressful situations that have cropped up in Europe as well as offer a safe place for the refugees, but we still have to hear Saudi Arabia (one of the countries refusing to take in refugees) complain about how they're being treated in Europe.


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## dizzy bone (Nov 14, 2015)

It's all so terrible. A Cambodian restaurant was among those fired at and at least 14 people were killed... I'm glad my Cambodian relatives in Paris are safe.. How is it that there were even bombings in Beirut around the same time? How is this still happening in the world? 

Ugh religion is far too often used by minorities and bigots as an excuse for hatred. It just antagonises and emphasises differences among people... This is why all these #prayforparis posts seem so ironic to me even though they are meant for good. Innocent people were just slaughtered in the name of another imaginary deity. If they were born in another part of the world, they would be worshipping another God! People say that terrorism has no face or religion and that it's just an act of evil people - while I want to believe this is true, it is almost always fuelled by religion. Sorry /end rant about religion.


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## Trundle (Nov 14, 2015)

dizzy bone said:


> It's all so terrible. A Cambodian restaurant was among those fired at and at least 14 people were killed... I'm glad my Cambodian relatives in Paris are safe.. How is it that there were even bombings in Beirut around the same time? How is this still happening in the world?
> 
> Ugh religion is far too often used by minorities and bigots as an excuse for hatred. It just antagonises and emphasises differences among people... This is why all these #prayforparis posts seem so ironic to me even though they are meant for good. Innocent people were just slaughtered in the name of another imaginary deity. If they were born in another part of the world, they would be worshipping another God! People say that terrorism has no face or religion and that it's just an act of evil people - while I want to believe this is true, it is almost always fuelled by religion. Sorry /end rant about religion.



Well of course it's fueled by religion. Their beliefs. Pretty much everything on earth is fueled by beliefs. Some people's are good, some bad, and some terrible. Just because some are terrible does not mean all beliefs are terrible.


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## KarlaKGB (Nov 14, 2015)

at least one of the attackers known to have entered via greece

compassion and all is nice, but countries put their own people first, and rightly so.


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## Cailey (Nov 14, 2015)

im terrified I've been shaking all day today and yesterday. 
I didn't even sleep until 5am this morning and had to get up for work at 8am...

what I'm scared about now is the nuclear plants and I happen to live in a state that has one. there are rumors now about nuclear war, etc. 
I'm really messed up from this and can't sleep. opinions? help

I've even been having nightmares about attacks and nuclear war and literally I die in every one and it wakes me up suddenly and I panic everytime.......


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## milkyi (Nov 14, 2015)

If you live in Paris, please stay safe! ;;


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## Cailey (Nov 14, 2015)

literally I am actually crying my eyes out in bed and I am 20 years old I need support I'm scared..


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## ams (Nov 14, 2015)

KarlaKGB said:


> it'll only get worse thanks to europe's refugee policy



100% agree. Even with stricter policies they're just in a geographically dangerous place given that people can sneak into European countries by boat/train. Terrorism happens everywhere, but I'm so thankful I'm not in Europe and my thoughts go out to those who are in countries that are so susceptible to these attacks.

- - - Post Merge - - -



dizzy bone said:


> It's all so terrible. A Cambodian restaurant was among those fired at and at least 14 people were killed... I'm glad my Cambodian relatives in Paris are safe.. How is it that there were even bombings in Beirut around the same time? How is this still happening in the world?
> 
> Ugh religion is far too often used by minorities and bigots as an excuse for hatred. It just antagonises and emphasises differences among people... This is why all these #prayforparis posts seem so ironic to me even though they are meant for good. Innocent people were just slaughtered in the name of another imaginary deity. If they were born in another part of the world, they would be worshipping another God! People say that terrorism has no face or religion and that it's just an act of evil people - while I want to believe this is true, it is almost always fuelled by religion. Sorry /end rant about religion.



Also completely agree with this. I have Muslim family members and they always say that the people who kill in the name of Islam aren't real Muslims, and yet they don't associate with Jewish people. All it takes is the mindset they're raising their children with and one child to end up deranged or mentally ill to result in things like this. Saying that terrorism strictly involves mental derangement regardless of beliefs is ridiculous to me. They clearly both play a part.


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## jiny (Nov 14, 2015)

kittycaffeine said:


> im terrified I've been shaking all day today and yesterday.
> I didn't even sleep until 5am this morning and had to get up for work at 8am...
> 
> what I'm scared about now is the nuclear plants and I happen to live in a state that has one. there are rumors now about nuclear war, etc.
> ...



im scared too, but just try to calm down. being scared makes it worse. 
i hope you get better soon.


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## oath2order (Nov 14, 2015)

kittycaffeine said:


> im terrified I've been shaking all day today and yesterday.
> I didn't even sleep until 5am this morning and had to get up for work at 8am...
> 
> what I'm scared about now is the nuclear plants and I happen to live in a state that has one. there are rumors now about nuclear war, etc.
> ...



There is not going to be a nuclear war.


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## Cailey (Nov 14, 2015)

Sugarella said:


> im scared too, but just try to calm down. being scared makes it worse.
> i hope you get better soon.



thanks... you too. blessings from me to you and your family. 
everything will work out. it has too. 

- - - Post Merge - - -



oath2order said:


> There is not going to be a nuclear war.



im just a freak and have been reading news constantly and possibilities of it and apparently it's in the talks but I am also just trying to disregard it because I'm just freaking myself out and it's unhealthy.

it just terrifies me, the thought that is....


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## weesakins (Nov 14, 2015)

kittycaffeine said:


> literally I am actually crying my eyes out in bed and I am 20 years old I need support I'm scared..



i hope both of you and Sugarella are safe


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## Kaioin (Nov 14, 2015)

kittycaffeine said:


> everything will work out. it has too.



You're right. The vast majority of countries are standing together against these attacks.
We all have each other.


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## Reindeer (Nov 14, 2015)

kittycaffeine said:


> im just a freak and have been reading news constantly and possibilities of it and apparently it's in the talks but I am also just trying to disregard it because I'm just freaking myself out and it's unhealthy.
> 
> it just terrifies me, the thought that is....


I have no idea which publications you're reading, because I haven't heard any mention of nukes. Countries are going to strike back at ISIS for this as well as the other attacks, but dropping atomic bombs on them carries its own risks, not the least of which is the amount of civilian casualties.


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## Cailey (Nov 14, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> I have no idea which publications you're reading, because I haven't heard any mention of nukes. Countries are going to strike back at ISIS for this as well as the other attacks, but dropping atomic bombs on them carries its own risks, not the least of which is the amount of civilian casualties.



probably faulty ones because nothing was or has been published about anything nuclear related in the major news I follow... but with all these attacks and U.S. attacking back I'm afraid it'll just tick them off and they'll just wanna wipe us out. plus doesn't and china and russia already want to nuke us? china does have a good amount of them especially. then again don't we have a pact against using those??

I mean america does have good defense and we can detect and try to reverse it.... right? 
I just need support and someone to tell me I'm wrong and why or something, please. my state has one of the biggest plants and it'd hit MULTIPLE states next to me including mine if someone did decide to drop and that makes me sick to my stomach more than it probably should.


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## Reindeer (Nov 14, 2015)

I have no idea what the state of nuclear weapons is in China, but I don't think you have much to fear from Russia. Also, nukes aren't as destructive as they're made out to be. They generally hit an area that's a few miles wide, but that's it.

And if one flies at the US they won't hesitate to retaliate, possibly with multiple nuclear strikes. That thought alone keeps would-be attackers at bay. It's basic nuclear deterrence.


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## Cailey (Nov 14, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> I have no idea what the state of nuclear weapons is in China, but I don't think you have much to fear from Russia. Also, nukes aren't as destructive as they're made out to be. They generally hit an area that's a few miles wide, but that's it.
> 
> And if one flies at the US they won't hesitate to retaliate, possibly with multiple nuclear strikes. That thought alone keeps would-be attackers at bay. It's basic nuclear deterrence.



if plants were hit it is said it'll take out at least a whole state. whether it hits a plant or ground.
and true. I know we would see it, it's just a scary thought and I'm pretty afraid of another war that could be in the works.

why can't everyone get along? like we have our own countries, why can't we all just live happily and be nice? the sad thing is, that the answer to that is simply; because it'd be too easy and human feed off drama and war in this instance... but that makes me so sad. I want everyone to live happily and not have to worry about these kinds of things..


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## Kaioin (Nov 14, 2015)

kittycaffeine said:


> probably faulty ones because nothing was or has been published about anything nuclear related in the major news I follow... but with all these attacks and U.S. attacking back I'm afraid it'll just tick them off and they'll just wanna wipe us out. plus doesn't and china and russia already want to nuke us? china does have a good amount of them especially. then again don't we have a pact against using those??
> 
> I mean america does have good defense and we can detect and try to reverse it.... right?
> I just need support and someone to tell me I'm wrong and why or something, please. my state has one of the biggest plants and it'd hit MULTIPLE states next to me including mine if someone did decide to drop and that makes me sick to my stomach more than it probably should.



It's irrational, don't worry.
Aside from the fact the US has many, many allies and a strong defence regardless; China has no reason to attack the US and the terrorists don't have the resources to pull off a nuclear attack. It simply won't happen.
It's the world against them as far we're concerned. There's no need to worry as much as this. It's a mess, definitely, but don't let it bring you down too much, stay strong please..!

- - - Post Merge - - -



kittycaffeine said:


> why can't everyone get along? like we have our own countries, why can't we all just live happily and be nice?



Hey, in an ideal world right? At least there are people who desire it to be that way...


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## Cailey (Nov 14, 2015)

Kaioin said:


> It's irrational, don't worry.
> Aside from the fact the US has many, many allies and a strong defence regardless; China has no reason to attack the US and the terrorists don't have the resources to pull off a nuclear attack. It simply won't happen.
> It's the world against them as far we're concerned. There's no need to worry as much as this. It's a mess, definitely, but don't let it bring you down too much, stay strong please..!
> 
> ...



you are helping me - and I appreciate that. I'm sorry for my fear, I just wanna be okay again. I don't wanna live in fear anymore..


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## Splendor (Nov 14, 2015)

I don't know if this has been said, since I haven't read through all the posts. I know this superstition doesn't apply to everywhere, probably not for Paris or Japan. But I noticed that Japan's earthquake and the Attack on Paris was both on Friday the 13th. I'm don't believe in superstition, and maybe it's just a coincidence. I don't know why I'm posting anymore, actually.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 14, 2015)

kittycaffeine said:


> im terrified I've been shaking all day today and yesterday.
> I didn't even sleep until 5am this morning and had to get up for work at 8am...
> 
> what I'm scared about now is the nuclear plants and I happen to live in a state that has one. there are rumors now about nuclear war, etc.
> ...


Nuclear power plants don't produce nuclear weapons.


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## Cailey (Nov 14, 2015)

hariolari said:


> Nuclear power plants don't produce nuclear weapons.



no they don't, but when striked it'll cause immense destruction.
I know they don't produce them.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 14, 2015)

kittycaffeine said:


> no they don't, but when striked it'll cause immense destruction.
> I know they don't produce them.


If they drop a nuclear bomb, odds are you're dead anyway. Regardless of a nuclear power plant.


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## Cailey (Nov 15, 2015)

hariolari said:


> If they drop a nuclear bomb, odds are you're dead anyway. Regardless of a nuclear power plant.



I know that. just stating its scary to even has one in my hometown because they'd wanna target plants before anything. I need to stop talking about this before I panic again, lol.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 15, 2015)

kittycaffeine said:


> I know that. just stating its scary to even has one in my hometown because they'd wanna target plants before anything. I need to stop talking about this before I panic again, lol.


If there was a nuclear war the entire planet would be dead. There's no targets in a war with weapons that can destroy planets.


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## Tao (Nov 15, 2015)

Splendor said:


> I don't know if this has been said, since I haven't read through all the posts. I know this superstition doesn't apply to everywhere, probably not for Paris or Japan. But I noticed that Japan's earthquake and the Attack on Paris was both on Friday the 13th. I'm don't believe in superstition, and maybe it's just a coincidence. I don't know why I'm posting anymore, actually.



The earthquake was just coincidence. 

The attack I'm going to put down to coincidence as well. The chance that they planned it specifically for Friday 13th due to superstition does exist, but I highly doubt it. 
It was likely more due to just how many people were around at the time that they chose that date, with both (what I assume is) a fairly big football/soccer event and Eagles of Death Metal (who are somewhat well known, not a small local band or something) playing in one of the attacked areas. It was also a Friday night in a touristy area so there would have been that on top of it.




hariolari said:


> If there was a nuclear war the entire planet would be dead. There's no targets in a war with weapons that can destroy planets.



I'm guessing she meant plants, as in, nuclear power plants.

An attack on France to intergalactic warfare is a pretty big leap.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 15, 2015)

The 





Tao said:


> The earthquake was just coincidence.
> 
> The attack I'm going to put down to coincidence as well. The chance that they planned it specifically for Friday 13th due to superstition does exist, but I highly doubt it.
> It was likely more due to just how many people were around at the time that they chose that date, with both (what I assume is) a fairly big football/soccer event and Eagles of Death Metal (who are somewhat well known, not a small local band or something) playing in one of the attacked areas. It was also a Friday night in a touristy area so there would have been that on top of it.
> ...


You missed out convo I think.


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## Cailey (Nov 15, 2015)

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/14/opinions/bergen-paris-attacks/index.html
someone break this down, because I'm in the western U.S. and scared.


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## piichinu (Nov 15, 2015)

ok seriously isis is not a threat to the us 

bye thats all

- - - Post Merge - - -

this is like ebola all over again


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## gem83 (Nov 15, 2015)

kittycaffeine said:


> http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/14/opinions/bergen-paris-attacks/index.html
> someone break this down, because I'm in the western U.S. and scared.



My advice to you is to stop scaring yourself tbh like stop reading those things at this moment


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## radical6 (Nov 15, 2015)

kittycaffeine said:


> http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/14/opinions/bergen-paris-attacks/index.html
> someone break this down, because I'm in the western U.S. and scared.



isis is literally never going to take over the us

theyre not that strong or rash

they would literally get their asses kicked. also if they attacked the south the rednecks would def shoot em

literally calm the **** down there is not going to be a nuclear war. you're getting yourself worked up for nothing. dont believe bull**** lmao 

this is just stupid fearmongering

also yes i heard poland and other countries are now taking even less refugees. its not like europe has the most refugees anyway. jordan, lebanon and other countries have taken the most refugees so far, but they're reaching their limit. ive hard 1/3 of jordan's population are refugees anyway


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## Cailey (Nov 15, 2015)

gem83 said:


> My advice to you is to stop scaring yourself tbh like stop reading those things at this moment



okay <3

- - - Post Merge - - -



justice said:


> isis is literally never going to take over the us
> 
> theyre not that strong or rash
> 
> ...



lol okay sorry.


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## Trundle (Nov 15, 2015)

While this isn't actually related to the Paris terrorist attaacks, this happened a few days ago and was only released yesterday.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/14/exclusive-u-s-targets-isis-in-libya-airstrike.html


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 15, 2015)

Trundle said:


> While this isn't actually related to the Paris terrorist attaacks, this happened a few days ago and was only released yesterday.
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/14/exclusive-u-s-targets-isis-in-libya-airstrike.html



Yeah, I saw that.


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## oath2order (Nov 16, 2015)

justice said:


> isis is literally never going to take over the us
> 
> theyre not that strong or rash
> 
> ...



Building on this...

There's no place for ISIS/Daesh to actually stage a ground invasion.

Invading from the north? Canada would likely kick their asses. It's also cold. The weather is not what they're used to, they'd die from exposure.

Invading from the south? HA! Have you seen the defense our southern border has now? Now imagine the rumors of a threat of ISIS/Daesh in Mexico. No possible way.

Invading from the east? Yeah, trying invading anywhere on the east coast where the capital is. Good bloody luck with that.

Invading from the west? Not a chance.

Ground invasions would stand no chance. Air invasions would be shot down. Sea invasions would be sunk.

Jordan's got that many? God damn. I knew they were taking in a lot, but not that many. Impressive.



Trundle said:


> While this isn't actually related to the Paris terrorist attaacks, this happened a few days ago and was only released yesterday.
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/14/exclusive-u-s-targets-isis-in-libya-airstrike.html



Reminder though, it is not the leader of ISIS/Daesh itself, rather the leader of the Libyan operations. Think district manager instead of CEO.

Also found this relevant from the recent two-part episode of Doctor Who that basically was their episode of ISIS/Daesh. It was so heavy-handed with the metaphor the enemies (Zygons) may very well have been called ZySIS.


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## Cailey (Nov 16, 2015)

theyre threatening dc right now and just went "dark" so they're off the grid and planning yippee. oh and our president isn't really doing what he should be to prevent this so. great. 

however, on a happier note, france did attack back and kicked some butt WHOO ^^


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## oath2order (Nov 16, 2015)

kittycaffeine said:


> theyre threatening dc right now and just went "dark" so they're off the grid and planning yippee. oh and our president isn't really doing what he should be to prevent this so. great.
> 
> however, on a happier note, france did attack back and kicked some butt WHOO ^^



So, what do you expect Obama do to? Bomb them some more? Let's do that. Then ISIS/Daesh can say "Look at the West! They're bombing our towns, killing your families! There is a war on Islam, join us so we can fight it!" That's how groups like this get started in the first place. Our bombings help the radical groups recruit more people.


*Stop reading articles about this.* You are stressing yourself out. It's not healthy to overly stress about things that are out of your control.


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## Cailey (Nov 16, 2015)

oath2order said:


> So, what do you expect Obama do to? Bomb them some more? Let's do that. Then ISIS/Daesh can say "Look at the West! They're bombing our towns, killing your families! There is a war on Islam, join us so we can fight it!" That's how groups like this get started in the first place. Our bombings help the radical groups recruit more people.
> 
> 
> *Stop reading articles about this.* You are stressing yourself out.



actually very true. and you're right, I just hate all the violence and want everyone to be safe and live without fear, you know? ;;


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## oath2order (Nov 16, 2015)

kittycaffeine said:


> actually very true. and you're right, I just hate all the violence and want everyone to be safe and live without fear, you know? ;;



Aye, that's a fair point.


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## Cailey (Nov 16, 2015)

we will be okay. we stand together. you're right. 
I don't watch the news, I just constantly pull up my local one on my ipad but no you're right.

I'll look into blocking it and just continue with my life and do things to get my mind off it! it's not healthy and everyone around me is saying the same as well. we're strong and we can overcome this.


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## The Hidden Owl (Nov 16, 2015)

kittycaffeine said:


> we will be okay. we stand together. you're right.
> I don't watch the news, I just constantly pull up my local one on my ipad but no you're right.
> 
> I'll look into blocking it and just continue with my life and do things to get my mind off it! it's not healthy and everyone around me is saying the same as well. we're strong and we can overcome this.



while you want to get your mind off of it, don't completely block out news... it's good and necessary to know what is going on.


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## Shinylatias (Nov 16, 2015)

This is just horrible. I know this might put us in danger, but it might not, all of the nations should stand together and destroy ISIS once and for all. People are just letting all this happen.. We could stop the terror, and hatred going on in the world. We've had many opportunities. We are the united nations, but from the news it seems were really not united..


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## device (Nov 16, 2015)

yeah there's gonna be more attacks like this, they're recruiting ppl all the time and a lot of muslims support what they're doing, there's no way to stop isis and air strikes certainly won't help, as that's what they want, they want retaliation


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 16, 2015)

Did anyone read the account on Reddit from a Bataclan survivor? It's very chilling and sheds some light on their mission, but not much. All they said was Syria and the French president's name. Killing was random.


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## oath2order (Nov 16, 2015)

hariolari said:


> Did anyone read the account on Reddit from a Bataclan survivor? It's very chilling and sheds some light on their mission, but not much. All they said was Syria and the French president's name. Killing was random.



Got a link, by chance?


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## LoonieToonies (Nov 16, 2015)

One thing that drives me crazy is that my country's new prime minister, Justin Trudeau, even after the wake of these events, is more concerned about keeping his campaign promises than doing what's right. 

He wants to take in 25,000 refugees by the end of the year, an already lofty goal as it is, and then there's the screening process. Time and efficiency is taking priority over safety. These poor people need help but our country's safety comes first. Take them in, but do it responsiby.

Pulling out our fighter jets and taking in these refugees is the worst thing to do. By taking us out of the fight and taking in refugees, you're doing nothing to stop the reason why they're running in the first place. It's like taking pain killers but doing nothing to treat the wound. 

The world is falling apart it seems. So much terror and corruption, violence and segregation. It seems world peace just can't be achieved.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 16, 2015)

oath2order said:


> Got a link, by chance?


I don't any to because it contains pictures of the aftermath. There are a lot of accounts out now. You can see this all on the post on Reddit's all about the shield used by the police that stormed the Bataclan.


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## oath2order (Nov 16, 2015)

LoonieToonies said:


> One thing that drives me crazy is that my country's new prime minister, Justin Trudeau, even after the wake of these events, is more concerned about keeping his campaign promises than doing what's right.
> 
> He wants to take in 25,000 refugees by the end of the year, an already lofty goal as it is, and then there's the screening process. Time and efficiency is taking priority over safety. These poor people need help but our country's safety comes first. Take them in, but do it responsiby.
> 
> ...



Because the endless war has really done so well.


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## brownboy102 (Nov 17, 2015)

LoonieToonies said:


> One thing that drives me crazy is that my country's new prime minister, Justin Trudeau, even after the wake of these events, is more concerned about keeping his campaign promises than doing what's right.
> 
> He wants to take in 25,000 refugees by the end of the year, an already lofty goal as it is, and then there's the screening process. Time and efficiency is taking priority over safety. These poor people need help but our country's safety comes first. Take them in, but do it responsiby.
> 
> ...



Though I can agree with you on some parts, I'll have to stick with Trudeau.

Though I can't say much on the fighter jet operation, he's right on the refugee front. To send them back to the chaos and devestation directly after a treacherous journey across the Pacific isn't right. To take these people in is to regain trust with the country of Syria, once or if it ever regains control.


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 17, 2015)

I'm feeling the subjects being discussed in here are irrelevant.


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## Reindeer (Nov 17, 2015)

oath2order said:


> So, what do you expect Obama do to? Bomb them some more? Let's do that. Then ISIS/Daesh can say "Look at the West! They're bombing our towns, killing your families! There is a war on Islam, join us so we can fight it!" That's how groups like this get started in the first place. Our bombings help the radical groups recruit more people.


If I may add to this: the daesh don't have rational thought. Think of the ways France could have responded to the Paris attacks.
1. Continue bombing as they have;
2. Increase intensity of bombing;
3. Stop bombing.

In all three situations, the daesh will yell "WE WON : DDDD". In their minds they have trapped the countries fighting against them, and anything they or other countries do means they have won.

Examples:
A country decides to bomb us? We won. Doesn't matter if we attacked them first.
One of our militiamen dies in battle? He's won. His task given to him by Allah has been completed.
The entire world rejects our vision? We've won. We've shown how the world is against Islam.

This is the way they think.

It's a deranged Islamic ideology that has no basis in the real world. It's also why I reject the argument that poverty is the main cause of young men joining them. I think it's that they already had a mental issue.



LoonieToonies said:


> He wants to take in 25,000 refugees by the end of the year, an already lofty goal as it is, and then there's the screening process. Time and efficiency is taking priority over safety. These poor people need help but our country's safety comes first. Take them in, but do it responsiby.


25000 is a lot of people, but you have to put it in perspective. In my country, The Netherlands, we have ~17 million people. Canada has ~36 million people. This country will have taken at least 60k people by the end of the year. At the moment, Canada has taken about 3000, with that plan to take 25k more. Canada is over 200 times as big, and The Netherlands doesn't have any involvement in the Syrian civil war (yet).

Do you really think taking half of what my country has will destabilize your society? After the Paris attacks, some extra security measures have been taken, but that's because we are so close to the attacks (for the most part). The amount of radicalized individuals here is minimal compared to France. If you have faith in your country's systems, then those refugees won't hurt you.

I agree that there need to be extra safety precautions, but to close your borders to people in need is cruel, and will only fuel the daesh's narrative.



nintendofan85 said:


> I'm feeling the subjects being discussed in here are irrelevant.


While it hasn't been confirmed that it was one of the terrorists, a passport was found of a Syrian male that passed through Greece, Serbia, Austria, and some other countries, in just the last month and a half. They found a man with the same passport but no further information about that has been made available.

Apart from that, the daesh are a big factor in why there's a stream of refugees at all. To say that it's irrelevant to their actions in Paris (where they even clearly stated "this is for your actions in Syria") is to ignore the facts.



At this point, nations are taking this group more seriously and realizing that Assad's dictatorship has actually left some people with no choice but to join them. Even Putin has decided to abandon Assad, one of his allies, in favor of helping western countries bomb the daesh and allow for proper democratic elections in Syria. It's a disappointment that it's taken so long for this to happen, but at least it is happening now.

And even when the daesh are gone, there will be some terrorist organization to wreak havoc in the Middle East and perhaps even in other countries. Don't forget that before ISIS came into view, the big name in everybody's minds was al Qaeda. They are still busy, and I would say that due to pressure being on the daesh instead of them, they have managed to gain some more strength. Until stability can be brought to the Middle East and Africa, these organizations will sadly continue existing.

The only thing we can do is make sure our governments keep their own civilians secure, but treat the refugees humanely as well. That's the way to piss off the terrorists and show them that their methods aren't effective.


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## MasterM64 (Nov 17, 2015)

I was at work when I learned about this and I could not believe what I was hearing since we have not had such a gruesome terrorist attack in the western hemisphere since 9/11 more than 14 years ago [I still remember that day quite vividly]. I'm truly saddened for all the families that lost loved ones that day. I hope these **** bastards pay for what they did and we as a civilized world defeat this barbaric group once and for all. These evil people have revoked their inalienable right to live after killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people for various reasons. This latest attack is a declaration of war to NATO under Article V of the agreement that created it. Hopefully, Obama will finally get out of his delusional view of his "strategy" and start actually engaging these people in all-out war. Unfortunately, Obama is most likely not going to get the job done by leading the world through this regardless of the dire circumstances and instead give this job to the next President (which I personally hope is not a Democrat because they will do nothing about this; all you have to do is watch the latest democratic debate to know this). :/


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## Knopekin (Nov 17, 2015)

MasterM64 said:


> I was at work when I learned about this and I could not believe what I was hearing since we have not had such a gruesome terrorist attack in the western hemisphere since 9/11 more than 14 years ago [I still remember that day quite vividly]. I'm truly saddened for all the families that lost loved ones that day.



It's been pretty much confirmed at this point that IS blew up that Russian plane, which killed nearly twice as many people as in the Paris attacks. I know it's not as 'gruesome' as the Paris killings, but there have been plenty of terrorist attacks - especially the Norway attacks which fit pretty much any definition of terrorism but were commited by a far-right white person.




> I hope these **** bastards pay for what they did and we as a civilized world defeat this barbaric group once and for all. These evil people have revoked their inalienable right to live after killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people for various reasons. This latest attack is a declaration of war to NATO under Article V of the agreement that created it. Hopefully, Obama will finally get out of his delusional view of his "strategy" and start actually engaging these people in all-out war. Unfortunately, Obama is most likely not going to get the job done by leading the world through this regardless of the dire circumstances and instead give this job to the next President (which I personally hope is not a Democrat because they will do nothing about this; all you have to do is watch the latest democratic debate to know this). :/



When you start cheering for all-out war is when you know you've lost the argument. America has killed 1,147 people trying to kill 41 wanted men. That's over a thousand 'acceptable casualties', every one of which will have family and friends who'll rightly want to fight the West. There's no moral justification for this.


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## MasterM64 (Nov 17, 2015)

Knopekin said:


> It's been pretty much confirmed at this point that IS blew up that Russian plane, which killed nearly twice as many people as in the Paris attacks. I know it's not as 'gruesome' as the Paris killings, but there have been plenty of terrorist attacks - especially the Norway attacks which fit pretty much any definition of terrorism but were commited by a far-right white person.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For the first point, the Paris attacks actually had far more lives impacted and was far more destructive than the Russian plane being blown up. According the sources which I will list at the end of my post, the Russian plane bomb killed 224 while the Paris attacks killed 136 and INJURED 430. So because of this, the recent event in Paris is the largest terrorist attack since 9/11.

For the second point, all is fair in war. In order to truly win wars (like we did back in WWII), you sometimes have to make sacrifices of some sort in order to achieve victory. Of course no one wants to kill innocent civilians, but what would you do if you had an enemy that needed to be defeated, but they hid strategically around innocents knowing we are going to be hesitant? Would you rather sit there and let them continue their evil, or will you surprise them and defeat them with great ease? Bombings are not the answer by the way to solve this issue ultimately (even though strategic bombings may be necessary for victory). Whether we like it or not, what we should be doing is sending in ground troops so that the casualties among innocents is minimized.

Sources for 1st point:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/17/egypt-plane-crash-bomb-jet-russia-security-service


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## Reindeer (Nov 17, 2015)

And now the soccer match between the Netherlands and Germany in Hannover has been cancelled, people advised to evacuate.

According to reports there's a suspicious package, as well as a bomb car disguised as a rescue vehicle.

Let's hope it's just a scare.

*Edit:* I don't feel this warrants bumping the thread. Press conference confirmed there were no bombs found, so it was just a scare. Phew.


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## Knopekin (Nov 17, 2015)

MasterM64 said:


> For the first point, the Paris attacks actually had far more lives impacted and was far more destructive than the Russian plane being blown up. According the sources which I will list at the end of my post, the Russian plane bomb killed 224 while the Paris attacks killed 136 and INJURED 430. So because of this, the recent event in Paris is the largest terrorist attack since 9/11.



If you're going by number injured, then sure. But terrorism didn't begin with 9/11. The IRA carried out over 10,000 bomb attacks over several decades, but thanks to the peace process and people _sitting down and talking_, Sinn Fein is now an elected political party in Ireland. You have to be prepared to talk to make peace, and every time innocent (or not) people are killed by the West, martyrs are added to their cause.




> For the second point, all is fair in war. In order to truly win wars (like we did back in WWII), you sometimes have to make sacrifices of some sort in order to achieve victory. Of course no one wants to kill innocent civilians, but what would you do if you had an enemy that needed to be defeated, but they hid strategically around innocents knowing we are going to be hesitant? Would you rather sit there and let them continue their evil, or will you surprise them and defeat them with great ease? Bombings are not the answer by the way to solve this issue ultimately (even though strategic bombings may be necessary for victory). Whether we like it or not, what we should be doing is sending in ground troops so that the casualties among innocents is minimized.
> 
> Sources for 1st point:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/17/egypt-plane-crash-bomb-jet-russia-security-service



'All's fair in war' is an extremely dangerous rhetoric and everyone should be very wary of it - it opens the door for all kinds of reforms, including (especially!) governments spying on their own people in the name of national security.

Even in WWII, 'everything wasn't fair'. Chemical agents like mustard gas were used in WWI to horrific effects, so chemical weapons in WWII were made but never used, because it was too horrific; if one side used gas, the other may have retaliated.

I don't have the answers, and I'm definitely not saying there's a bloodless solution to the problem, but the American Republican rhetoric of 'bomb them all, then bomb them some more' is dangerous, immoral and counter-productive.


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## Reindeer (Nov 18, 2015)

A cell phone used by one of the attackers on Friday was found yesterday. It led police to an apartment in Paris. Authorities said that more terrorists were hiding there, and that they were planning attacks that would be carried out in the La D?fense district on Wednesday.

During the raid on the apartment, a woman blew herself up, killing the police dog that was sent to investigate. Another suspect was killed in a firefight, while 7 others were arrested. Apart from the dog, Diesel, no other police officers lost their lives. 5 were reported to be lightly wounded.

A church in the same neighborhood was also raided as it was believed there was a cache of weapons hidden inside. That turned out to be a false alarm.



Spoiler:


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## matt (Nov 18, 2015)

Read there was a suspisous looking wheelie bag in the newspaper which was thought to be a b o m b at a stadium all the spectators were told to go straight home. Was this a b o m b or just a false alarm? Didnt read much as was getting off bus


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## Reindeer (Nov 18, 2015)

matt said:


> Read there was a suspisous looking wheelie bag in the newspaper which was thought to be a b o m b at a stadium all the spectators were told to go straight home. Was this a b o m b or just a false alarm? Didnt read much as was getting off bus


Read post #352. It was a false alarm.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 18, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> If I may add to this: the daesh don't have rational thought. Think of the ways France could have responded to the Paris attacks.
> 1. Continue bombing as they have;
> 2. Increase intensity of bombing;
> 3. Stop bombing.
> ...


The Syrian passport has been confirmed fake. The passport belonged to a migrant that came to Europe from Turkey.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...adf3f4-8d53-11e5-934c-a369c80822c2_story.html


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## Reindeer (Nov 18, 2015)

hariolari said:


> The Syrian passport has been confirmed fake. The passport belonged to a migrant that came to Europe from Turkey.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...adf3f4-8d53-11e5-934c-a369c80822c2_story.html


After reports came in that a man with the exact same passport (albeit with a different picture) had been detained in Serbia, it was obvious that it was a fake passport. I remember there also being a report today that the actual Ahmad al Mohammad had been killed in Syria some months ago, though I can't find the source now.

The fact that the fake passport traveled through other countries to eventually arrive at France raises some questions regardless. It obviously wasn't the man that's still in Serbia, as he would be in France. And it was obviously evidence that was meant to be found, so this discussion would start and people would take the daesh's threats seriously. As the source you linked says, it's obvious that terrorists can and will hide in the stream of migrants.

*Edit:* Thought I'd slap some sources on statements as well.

Guy in Serbia with same passport arrested
Passport was recorded in Croatian refugee camp (after it passed through Serbia) 1 2

*Edit 2:* Found the source about the real Ahmad al Mohammad. 1 2


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## Izzy Reincarnated (Nov 18, 2015)

Lol at the tags of the thread


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 18, 2015)

Izzy Reincarnated said:


> Lol at the tags of the thread



I didn't put that tag in there. I swear I didn't. How did it get in there?


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 18, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> After reports came in that a man with the exact same passport (albeit with a different picture) had been detained in Serbia, it was obvious that it was a fake passport. I remember there also being a report today that the actual Ahmad al Mohammad had been killed in Syria some months ago, though I can't find the source now.
> 
> The fact that the fake passport traveled through other countries to eventually arrive at France raises some questions regardless. It obviously wasn't the man that's still in Serbia, as he would be in France. And it was obviously evidence that was meant to be found, so this discussion would start and people would take the daesh's threats seriously. As the source you linked says, it's obvious that terrorists can and will hide in the stream of migrants.
> 
> ...


I'm not at all denying that they can hide among migrants. That's a pretty obvious way to get in. Any mass immigration is going to present opportunities for terrorists.

It's just the link with Syria is weak. It's more likely it's a terrorist attack to deal with France's current actions "against" Islam, and not Syria. We don't know the exact reason why, but considering the track record it's probably because they see this as a mission to help purify the world.


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## Reindeer (Nov 18, 2015)

hariolari said:


> I'm not at all denying that they can hide among migrants. That's a pretty obvious way to get in. Any mass immigration is going to present opportunities for terrorists.
> 
> It's just the link with Syria is weak. It's more likely it's a terrorist attack to deal with France's current actions "against" Islam, and not Syria. We don't know the exact reason why, but considering the track record it's probably because they see this as a mission to help purify the world.


The brain behind the attacks spent time with ISIS in Syria. At least one of the Paris attackers spent time with ISIS in Syria. The only questionable issue is whether or not one of the attackers originated from Syria. For the rest, the link between the daesh in Syria and the Paris attacks is overwhelmingly obvious.

And what are the French actions against Islam that you speak of? I know some people spoke out against the religion after the Charlie Hebdo attacks, but those were individuals. I'd like to know what the French government as a whole has done.

-------------------------------------------------------

It was just confirmed that the male terrorist killed in this morning's raid was Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the brain behind the Friday attacks. The raid was mainly targeting him, but they couldn't confirm before now that they had indeed found him. (source)

*Edit:* The above news is spreading, but the Paris prosecutor said in a recent press conference that Abdelhamid wasn't one of the ones arrested. (source)
This doesn't immediately mean the previous news wasn't true, but take it with a grain of salt until it's super confirmed.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 18, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> The brain behind the attacks spent time with ISIS in Syria. At least one of the Paris attackers spent time with ISIS in Syria. The only questionable issue is whether or not one of the attackers originated from Syria. For the rest, the link between the daesh in Syria and the Paris attacks is overwhelmingly obvious.
> 
> And what are the French actions against Islam that you speak of? I know some people spoke out against the religion after the Charlie Hebdo attacks, but those were individuals. I'd like to know what the French government as a whole has done.
> 
> ...


If you have followed French law in the recent years, the response to Islam has been offensive. They've banned quite a bit. France also had a very nationalistic ideal that rejects migrants. It's quite hard to become a French citizen, or to just get in France.

Some examples of French laws (hard to find any unbiased):
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/01/world/europe/france-burqa-ban/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16547479 (Sikh, but shows French laws)
http://huffpost.com/us/entry/5555732

Many of he laws are older now, but France has been well known to be "intolerant." This is not the first terrorist attack in France, and not even the first in Paris, as we all know. It's kind of a target for ISIS and other Islamic groups at this time.

By ties to Syria I was referring to the country itself. Syria has many Islamic militant groups in it. It's bound to be a source for a lot of terrorism. But it's not linked to Syria's civil war and actions there _so much as_ it is linked to Islamic extremists. We don't solve this problem with Syria. We could end the civil war in Syria, but it would not solve the issue of Islamic terrorist groups. It's just be a proxy war of sorts. What I'm trying to say, is I am very wary that any response involving Syria will really help in the long run.


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## Reindeer (Nov 18, 2015)

hariolari said:


> If you have followed French law in the recent years, the response to Islam has been offensive. They've banned quite a bit. France also had a very nationalistic ideal that rejects migrants. It's quite hard to become a French citizen, or to just get in France.
> 
> Some examples of French laws (hard to find any unbiased):
> http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/01/world/europe/france-burqa-ban/
> ...


France is far from the only country to have bans on religious clothing, and it's not like it's the only religion from which things have been outlawed. Legally speaking, it's only possible to have one wife in most (if not all) western countries. That's overruling not just Islam, but also Buddhism, Hinduism, and even Christianity.

And what of the bans on religions that aren't Islam? Many places in India have a ban on Christianity, Saudi Arabia regularly deports Christians if they practice their faith, and there's a systematic harassment of Christians in countries like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and so on. There are no terrorist organizations going to those countries and performing suicide bombings, are there?

If Christians have to accept that there are other rules in Islam-dominated countries, then Muslims have to accept that there are other rules in Christian-dominated countries.


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## HaileyACNL (Nov 18, 2015)

why do people not care that people also died the same day in Beirut by ISIS ?


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## Titi (Nov 18, 2015)

It's silly, but this made me cry even more than the human casualties. 

http://metro.co.uk/2015/11/18/paris-attacks-diesel-the-hero-police-dog-killed-by-terrorists-after-sniffing-out-suicide-bomber-5509815/


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## ToxiFoxy (Nov 18, 2015)

I do not wanna suspect anything bout I am kind of scared, ever since they moved in these people down my house have been acting strange and have actually been arrested for selling drugs. Like one day before the terrorist attack they were packing their things and clothes and everything in a car and they left and have not been back since ova I am kinda scared

But I send my prayers towards all those who were affected by the tragedy

- - - Post Merge - - -



Reindeer said:


> France is far from the only country to have bans on religious clothing, and it's not like it's the only religion from which things have been outlawed. Legally speaking, it's only possible to have one wife in most (if not all) western countries. That's overruling not just Islam, but also Buddhism, Hinduism, and even Christianity.
> 
> And what of the bans on religions that aren't Islam? Many places in India have a ban on Christianity, Saudi Arabia regularly deports Christians if they practice their faith, and there's a systematic harassment of Christians in countries like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and so on. There are no terrorist organizations going to those countries and performing suicide bombings, are there?
> 
> If Christians have to accept that there are other rules in Islam-dominated countries, then Muslims have to accept that there are other rules in Christian-dominated countries.


Exactly. I am kind of glad I live in a country that you can practice any religion you want though.


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## Titi (Nov 18, 2015)

I'm not valuing the dog's life more thant I did the humans. It's just the straw that breaks the camel's back. Just starting to move on from the grief that struck my city, and then this happens, and dogs are my passion, my life. So yeah. i bawled, sue me.


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## yukikotobuki (Nov 18, 2015)

... Anyways... much respect to those who lost their lives in Paris, and additionally, best wishes to all of the other countries that have been attacked recently.


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## Reindeer (Nov 18, 2015)

HaileyACNL said:


> why do people not care that people also died the same day in Beirut by ISIS ?


I can't help feeling that this is supposed to be a rhetorical question, with the supposed "obvious" answer being that "white lives matter more". Sorry if that isn't the case. I'll try to explain regardless.

We've known for a few months that the daesh have been cutting through Syria into Lebanon. Because Syria is a war zone, the reports from there shock us less as it's a war zone. There is no war ongoing in France, and civil unrest is low compared to countries like South Africa. Therefore a terrorist attack of this scale is shocking, just like the attacks on New York, Madrid, London, Bali, and so on.

The last two years also gave us an example of this happening to white people.
After the Ukrainian revolution last year, a war between pro-Russian factions and the Ukrainian government broke out. For the first one or two months there was a lot of coverage on the situation. How much do you hear about it now? Much less than you hear of Syria, I imagine, even though the conflict is still ongoing.

Countries in conflict get less sympathy than those who aren't. It's disappointing and makes people seem like hypocrites, but it's simple human nature. That's why Paris got more sympathy than Beirut, or the various attacks in Nigeria and Kenya. France isn't a conflict zone.


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## oath2order (Nov 18, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> *Countries in conflict get less sympathy than those who aren't.*



Just wanna reiterate this. Hell, even when it came to the hospital bombings this country did, that still didn't get as much attention as Paris because it was Afghanistan.


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## Colour Bandit (Nov 18, 2015)

Throwing in my 2 cents about the death of the police dog, I would say I also cried more when I heard about it vs the human casualties but that's not because I think dogs>humans, it's because I felt more fear and anxiety over the terror attacks rather than sadness, I know someone who was literally staying 5 minutes away from the football stadium and who I and many other people thought was dead or being held hostage so I was feeling extremely worried and anxious for her (don't worry she is all okay and back at work now) and everyone in Paris, and I feel that it hit me harder than the dog's death. But I found the dogs death more sad in that I kept imagining it happening to my dog and that made me tear up, it didn't hit me anywhere as hard...

In other news, we had a two minute silence at work on Monday in respect for the Paris victims and our new manager was totally out of order, she completely disregarded the silence and then started shouting at us for observing it! It also turns out she did the same thing on Remembrance Sunday (I wasn't in work so didn't know this) and I just feel so disgusted with her, that she would just disregard all the people who cruelly had their lives taken from them


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 18, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> France is far from the only country to have bans on religious clothing, and it's not like it's the only religion from which things have been outlawed. Legally speaking, it's only possible to have one wife in most (if not all) western countries. That's overruling not just Islam, but also Buddhism, Hinduism, and even Christianity.
> 
> And what of the bans on religions that aren't Islam? Many places in India have a ban on Christianity, Saudi Arabia regularly deports Christians if they practice their faith, and there's a systematic harassment of Christians in countries like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and so on. There are no terrorist organizations going to those countries and performing suicide bombings, are there?
> 
> If Christians have to accept that there are other rules in Islam-dominated countries, then Muslims have to accept that there are other rules in Christian-dominated countries.


France is just a big one to do so. France is a first world, Western country with a lot of pull. It's going to be more significant when France does something. That's just the way it is.

It's not Islam = terrorism. All religions have terrorist groups, and Islam is an Abrahamic religion. Islam is also poised to overtake Christainty. Anyway, none of that matters because most Western countries are secular government wise. It's not supposed to be a "Christian nation." Muslims are not entering "Christian nations." And Islam itself is not the issue.

The issue itself is deep and rooted in melenia of debate. It's far more entrenched then anything that can be simplified. But the best combat is educating in rebuilding the Middle East. It's something that will take a very long time to fix. Nothing with an immediate and easy solution, which is what people want and look for.

- - - Post Merge - - -



HaileyACNL said:


> why do people not care that people also died the same day in Beirut by ISIS ?


Because France is a Western country with power. France is supposed to be safe. Beruit is located somewhere where bombings are common. We've become desensitized.

France also has more global ties, especially Paris. People have family there or someone visiting. It's a huge tourist location for people all over he globe. It's recognizable to anyone. People are going to feel a stronger connection there. It's going to shake people up and effect them more.


----------



## Reindeer (Nov 18, 2015)

hariolari said:


> France is just a big one to do so. France is a first world, Western country with a lot of pull. It's going to be more significant when France does something. That's just the way it is.


Iran and Saudi Arabia have a lot of "pull" in the UN, so I don't see how their treatment of people of non-Muslim faith should be accepted while we condemn laws passed in France. Seems like a blatant double standard to me.



hariolari said:


> It's not Islam = terrorism.


I don't remember anyone saying that.



hariolari said:


> All religions have terrorist groups, and Islam is an Abrahamic religion. Islam is also poised to overtake Christainty. Anyway, none of that matters because most Western countries are secular government wise. It's not supposed to be a "Christian nation." Muslims are not entering "Christian nations." And Islam itself is not the issue.


Islam isn't going to overtake Christianity in western countries in your lifetime, let me lead with that. The only way in which it will "overtake" Christianity is that more people in the world follow that religion, but most of those people will be in countries that are already mostly Muslim.

Apart from that, while France has a separation of church and state, the largest religion in France is Christianity at 65% of the population, whereas Islam is at 8%. There's more atheists in France than there are Muslims. People are free to practice their religion as they want, but there are some things that these Christian-dominated (which was the word I used) countries will find unacceptable. In France that's burqas, in Iran that's... oh wait, there's no religious freedom in Iran.

My point is simply this: if you go to a country and you want to enforce your values there, be they religious or not, then bugger off back to your own country. The correct thing to do when you migrate to a country, planning to build up a life there, is to integrate. I had to do it, so I expect them to do it. It's not that hard.


----------



## nintendofan85 (Nov 18, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> France is far from the only country to have bans on religious clothing, and it's not like it's the only religion from which things have been outlawed. Legally speaking, it's only possible to have one wife in most (if not all) western countries. That's overruling not just Islam, but also Buddhism, Hinduism, and even Christianity.
> 
> And what of the bans on religions that aren't Islam? Many places in India have a ban on Christianity, Saudi Arabia regularly deports Christians if they practice their faith, and there's a systematic harassment of Christians in countries like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and so on. There are no terrorist organizations going to those countries and performing suicide bombings, are there?
> 
> If Christians have to accept that there are other rules in Islam-dominated countries, then Muslims have to accept that there are other rules in Christian-dominated countries.



Yeah, Germany has bans on headscarves, from what I heard.
And you are right, in many countries, Christians are persecuted, especially in the Islamic world.


----------



## oath2order (Nov 18, 2015)

nintendofan85 said:


> Yeah, Germany has bans on headscarves, from what I heard.
> And you are right, in many countries, Christians are persecuted, especially in the Islamic world.



Christians are basically only persecuted in countries that don't have a Christian majority.


----------



## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 18, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> Iran and Saudi Arabia have a lot of "pull" in the UN, so I don't see how their treatment of people of non-Muslim faith should be accepted while we condemn laws passed in France. Seems like a blatant double standard to me.


They aren't part of the United Nations Secruity Council.




Reindeer said:


> I don't remember anyone saying that.


You implied the problem was Islam by suggesting Muldimd as a whole need to change.




Reindeer said:


> Islam isn't going to overtake Christianity in western countries in your lifetime, let me lead with that. The only way in which it will "overtake" Christianity is that more people in the world follow that religion, but most of those people will be in countries that are already mostly Muslim.


Overtake in number of believers. The world's most practiced religion and I'll play a big role on world dynamics. That's just how it is.



Reindeer said:


> Apart from that, while France has a separation of church and state, the largest religion in France is Christianity at 65% of the population, whereas Islam is at 8%. There's more atheists in France than there are Muslims. People are free to practice their religion as they want, but there are some things that these Christian-dominated (which was the word I used) countries will find unacceptable. In France that's burqas, in Iran that's... oh wait, there's no religious freedom in Iran.
> 
> My point is simply this: if you go to a country and you want to enforce your values there, be they religious or not, then bugger off back to your own country. The correct thing to do when you migrate to a country, planning to build up a life there, is to integrate. I had to do it, so I expect them to do it. It's not that hard.


Most aren't instilling their values? Their values are Christian mostly, anyway. Both are Abrahamic religions. Christians are also supposed to cover up, if you didn't know this. It's modern ideals that are clashing, not Christian.

There's s fine line between assimilation and retaining cultural identity. It's very hard to distinguish. Even harder when you were forced to leave your home behind, not come willingly. But this isn't entirely relevant to militant groups. The migrants aren't the terrorists, they are boring used by the terrorists as a means to enter. But the terrorists don't want to come and join another nation, so I fail to see the connection between what you are complaining about and the terrorist attacks in Paris.


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## Shimmer (Nov 18, 2015)

Apparently ISIS is threatening to attack New York City. 
I'm really worried because my bf lives there...


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## MozzarellaSticks (Nov 18, 2015)

Shimmer said:


> Apparently ISIS is threatening to attack New York City.
> I'm really worried because my bf lives there...


ISIS has threatened to attack every major city and several famous people. Most are safe.


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## radical6 (Nov 19, 2015)

Shimmer said:


> Apparently ISIS is threatening to attack New York City.
> I'm really worried because my bf lives there...



You do realize there could never be a fullscale invasion because the US would just **** them up

Everyone in the middle east has two guns to their heads. One is by ISIS who says "accept us or we will kill your family and friends" and the other is the Western nations saying "make a move against us and we will kill your family and friends"

One group has the actual power to wipe these nations out quickly though. Hint, it's not ISIS!

To be truthful, a lot of these people are just scared. If they speak up their families will die. If they don't speak up they're accused of murder and ****.

It's a lot easier to just ignore ISIS and the West in general. But it's finally reached a climax where they must choose sides. Think of how most American Christians think of the WBC or the KKK. They're stupid and wrong. But no one has enough energy or devotion to actually take them down. This is how they imagined ISIS, well before they started knocking on their doorsteps anyway. 

These European countries are complaining about like, what, 20k refugees? Jordan has taken in one million refugees and its king has already declared war on ISIS. Lebanon has taken in a million refugees as well. Many of the surrounding nations are taking refugees in, but they can't hold up any longer.

You can argue there's a bigger difference of culture in Jordan than France. But the queen of Jordan openly walks around with no hijab and even told people who criticized her for not wearing her hijab to **** off.


----------



## Izzy Reincarnated (Nov 19, 2015)

Colour Bandit said:


> Throwing in my 2 cents about the death of the police dog, I would say I also cried more when I heard about it vs the human casualties but that's not because I think dogs>humans, it's because I felt more fear and anxiety over the terror attacks rather than sadness, I know someone who was literally staying 5 minutes away from the football stadium and who I and many other people thought was dead or being held hostage so I was feeling extremely worried and anxious for her (don't worry she is all okay and back at work now) and everyone in Paris, and I feel that it hit me harder than the dog's death. But I found the dogs death more sad in that I kept imagining it happening to my dog and that made me tear up, it didn't hit me anywhere as hard...
> 
> In other news, we had a two minute silence at work on Monday in respect for the Paris victims and our new manager was totally out of order, she completely disregarded the silence and then started shouting at us for observing it! It also turns out she did the same thing on Remembrance Sunday (I wasn't in work so didn't know this) and I just feel so disgusted with her, that she would just disregard all the people who cruelly had their lives taken from them



She deserves to have her life taken away from her,
nice and painful and slowly.
****, if I was there I wouldve choked that pr*ck


----------



## Reindeer (Nov 19, 2015)

hariolari said:


> You implied the problem was Islam by suggesting Muldimd as a whole need to change.


That's quite short-sighted of you. You said that the terrorist attacks were likely caused by France's treatment of Islam (referring to bans on some religious things that many would find unacceptable). Here's the quote:


hariolari said:


> It's more likely it's a terrorist attack to deal with France's current actions "against" Islam, and not Syria.


All I said was that Muslims have to accept these bans, as in Muslim-dominated countries it has to be accepted that people of other religions are discriminated. And you boil that down to me saying "Islam = terrorism". I never said or even implied that.



hariolari said:


> Overtake in number of believers. The world's most practiced religion and I'll play a big role on world dynamics. That's just how it is.


Because Christianity dictated we bomb Syria. (???)
I mentioned in my previous post that France has a separation of church and state. This is the case for almost all western countries. The only thing that politicians will do in regards to the dominant (in some cases official) religion is observe certain holidays and services. It has no effect on their decision-making.
And as we both stated, it will only overtake in global numbers. Numbers that will mostly be situated in the Middle Easter and Africa, so even with the larger number it's likely that people won't pay much attention to it, as those countries are not counted among the world's superpowers. A lot has to change for Islam to "dominate" the world.



hariolari said:


> There's s fine line between assimilation and retaining cultural identity. It's very hard to distinguish. Even harder when you were forced to leave your home behind, not come willingly. But this isn't entirely relevant to militant groups. The migrants aren't the terrorists, they are boring used by the terrorists as a means to enter. But the terrorists don't want to come and join another nation, so I fail to see the connection between what you are complaining about and the terrorist attacks in Paris.


Again, your point was that the terrorist attacks were a fight against France's apparent oppression. My entire counterargument was that if people move to another country and settle down, or were even born there like most if not all of the attackers, they should integrate and not expect the values of their country of origin to be adopted in the country they're now in. That's not the way things work, and it just causes problems.

And while I realize that terrorists from another country just come here to blow themselves up and not to get a job, there's been plenty of footage of migrants being asked about European values. One of the questions with the most telling responses was what their response would be to two dudes kissing on the street. Some responded by saying it's against their values, so they'd turn their head. And that's it. That's not enforcing their values, and it shows they can be tolerant and willing to integrate into this new society.

Others blatantly said they would respond with violence.  And harassment of homosexuals by migrants has already happened in this country and others, not only to people that were born and raised here, but even to other migrants. That's enforcing their values and refusing to integrate into our society. These are the people of which I think that as soon as the civil war is over, they can piss off to their own country and be an intolerant ragemonkey there.


Anyway, the rhetoric of there being a "weak link" to Syria and it instead being about French bans on religious clothing falls down when you realize that the assailants mentioned French action in Syria and Iraq as being the cause, and the fact that in the video released by the daesh the same was mentioned.

Sources:
1 (Molins says the attackers in the Bataclan concert hall, where 89 people died, mentioned Syria and Iraq during the attacks.)
2 ("It is the fault of Hollande, he did not have to intervene in Syria!" was the message of one of the attackers at the Bataclan venue, according to witness testimony gathered by AFP.)
3 ("I clearly heard them say 'It's the fault of Hollande, it's the fault of your president, he should not have intervened in Syria',"  he added.)
4 (ISIS issued a statement this morning claiming responsiblity for the barbaric act, saying it was in response to airstrikes against militants in Syria and Iraq)
5 ("As long as you keep bombing you will not live in peace.")



Izzy Reincarnated said:


> She deserves to have her life taken away from her,
> nice and painful and slowly.
> ****, if I was there I wouldve choked that pr*ck


While her actions were disrespectful, wishing death on a person is the worst thing you can do in response.


*Edit:*



Reindeer said:


> It was just confirmed that the male terrorist killed in this morning's raid was Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the brain behind the Friday attacks. The raid was mainly targeting him, but they couldn't confirm before now that they had indeed found him. (source)
> 
> *Edit:* The above news is spreading, but the Paris prosecutor said in a recent press conference that Abdelhamid wasn't one of the ones arrested. (source)
> This doesn't immediately mean the previous news wasn't true, but take it with a grain of salt until it's super confirmed.


This has now been super confirmed.


----------



## Knopekin (Nov 19, 2015)

I like your posts, Reindeer. Very well-thought out.



oath2order said:


> Christians are basically only persecuted in countries that don't have a Christian majority.



To be fair, that's a _lot_ of countries, including some pretty huge ones like China. And there's a Christian majority in Kenya, but in April there was an attack in a university in Kenya where Christian students were singled out and killed.


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## Reindeer (Nov 21, 2015)

Some small updates:

Abaaoud, the planner, has been confirmed to be one of the drivers during the Paris attacks, driving the car of the assailants that fired upon restaurants and cafes. He was captured on CCTV on the night of the attacks. (source)

Another suicide bomber at the Stade de France, possibly the one with the Egyptian passport, has been confirmed to have passed the Greek border on 3 October along with the other person. (source)

Salah Abdeslam, another one of the drivers (and possibly someone who was supposed to blow himself up), met up with a friend and said he regretted the attacks and fears revenge from the daesh now. Turn yourself in, dude, it's safer in jail. (source)

The suspected scout for the locations assaulted in the Paris attacks was arrested in Turkey, along with two other men rumored to be daesh bodyguards. (source)

A big weapons cache found in Belgian suburb, which includes chemical weapons. Couldn't find a source apart from this live blog, but the Guardian is trustworthy.


Also, a big terrorist attack is feared in Brussels at the moment. The alert level has been raised to the highest possible, various shopping centers are being closed, concerts and football matches being cancelled, military on the streets. Pictures and more info can be found on the live blog I linked.


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## earthquake (Nov 22, 2015)

piichinu said:


> TBH Muslims aren't going to get bullied and called terrorists
> Anyone middle eastern is
> 
> lol



LMAO hi im muslim not middle eastern but because of my religion and the very color of my skin, i get called a terrorist. 
learn some stuff if youre not of the group being attacked before you make presumptuous posts online about it.


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## alesha (Nov 22, 2015)

Forget it... I deleted this post.


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## earthquake (Nov 22, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> All I said was that Muslims have to accept these bans, as in Muslim-dominated countries it has to be accepted that people of other religions are discriminated. And you boil that down to me saying "Islam = terrorism". I never said or even implied that.



listen to yourself. you're so shallow, and honestly there is nothing more i can say than that you're either racist or just an islamophobe. why should muslims have to accept bans just because there is less of them in a country?

does freedom only apply when you have the power to force it upon others? 

what is wrong with you? seriously, this is some of the most vapid talk i've heard in weeks. 

muslims should not have to accept any bans for that reason, and no one else should. 
plus: although christians may have been attacked, these attacks occur in such small numbers in comparison to attacks on muslims. very rarely do you see these crimes, while hate-crimes against muslims occur every day, and france somehow thought it'd be okay to bomb a hospital when hospitals, regardless of who is inside, are off limits no matter what. 

@Reindeer you disgust me.

- - - Post Merge - - -



alesha said:


> Muslims think they were put on earth to protect it
> Terrorists think they were put on earth to protect it by killing people (mainly the west).
> Sl it's just their religion guys....
> Their HORRIBLE religion **shivers**
> I live in Britain so I'm nextdoor to france, I had a nightmare about it last night.



literally get off of the internet. just leave. please. what the hell is wrong with you. 

people like you give me nightmares every day. you know nothing about the religion. muslims do not believe they were put on earth to protect it. stop making assumptions about other people's religions based on what you hear from a video game forum. 

you're all so childish and the remarks you make are absolutely disgusting.
i live in fear of people like you guys. i know that if i make on wrong move, someone may assume i have a bomb, i am a terrorist, im hostile, when i am not, and kill me.

you know nothing of our fears, you know nothing of the fears of thousands of muslims, you know nothing of the pain middle easterns go through when their houses, hospitals and very lives are torn from them because they're muslims, and they must be terrorists, right?

thanks to alesha and reindeer for reestablishing this ever growing fear. i cannot live in america without being afraid, but now i know that people in england and france are just as racist and that i can never go there either.


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## alesha (Nov 22, 2015)

Sorry if I upset you


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## earthquake (Nov 22, 2015)

alesha said:


> literally get off of the internet. just leave. please. what the hell is wrong with you.*people like you give me nightmares every day. you know nothing about the religion. muslims do not believe they were out on earth to protect it.
> :'(
> The internet didn't tell me, my geography teacher told us!!!



sorry. i guess your (lack of) education is to blame for your ignorance and disgusting behavior. thanks for pushing the blame onto someone else before fact checking your racist comments, though!


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## alesha (Nov 22, 2015)

And again, sorry


----------



## earthquake (Nov 22, 2015)

HaileyACNL said:


> why do people not care that people also died the same day in Beirut by ISIS ?



agreed. the media only cares when countries with predominantly white christian populations are attacked.
dont believe me?
how many people are aware that france broke international law by bombing a hospital in syria.

i'll answer that - not very many. it is not popularized news.



alesha said:


> Also, you could say something nice if you want to say anything, this upset me because you called me racist. I thought you were nice, and I like ALL races!
> And actually, I DO have problems, but not bad ones. I know not every muslim is a terrorist, I love the east, north, south and west!!! I have a muslim friend!! You are one who's childish because you are basically being rasist to the french and english. I know you're going through struggles too, I accept that. But whenever I cry or if I'm scared, I have to go to hospital, because if I don't, I might die!
> Anyway, it's ok if I'm childish, I basically still am!
> Sorry~



you are racist - time to accept it if you keep saying things like that or change. 
also having one muslim friend doesnt excuse you from being racist - thats the dumbest thing ever. its like saying "oh, i cant be racist towards black people, i have a black friend", my point being it makes no difference. you can totally be racist even if you have a friend from that ethnic group.

plus, you expose yourself as unexposed to islam, since you "have a muslim friend!!". learn some stuff first. 

also, im not being racist to the french and english. first of all, i said that im now afraid to go there because of the ignorance and hateful actions of people there towards muslims, which is absolutely justified, considering their bans on religious attire as well as the general actions of people everywhere.



Izzy Reincarnated said:


> She deserves to have her life taken away from her,
> nice and painful and slowly.
> ****, if I was there I wouldve choked that pr*ck



wow thats vulgar. great to know that someone with the same thought process as ISIS members is online on belltreeforums!



Shimmer said:


> Apparently ISIS is threatening to attack New York City.
> I'm really worried because my bf lives there...



ye i live here too but im not too wrried because ever since 9/11 ny has upped its security so much, to the point where another attack would be near impossible to very easy to smother in the case of it happening.



Reindeer said:


> My point is simply this: if you go to a country and you want to enforce your values there, be they religious or not, then bugger off back to your own country. The correct thing to do when you migrate to a country, planning to build up a life there, is to integrate. I had to do it, so I expect them to do it. It's not that hard.



hahahahahahaha. no one should ever have to integrate. dont you think that being able to love yourself, your heritage, and your culture is important? i certainly hold that at a higher standard that being able to assimilate.


----------



## Reindeer (Nov 22, 2015)

duck said:


> listen to yourself. you're so shallow, and honestly there is nothing more i can say than that you're either racist or just an islamophobe. why should muslims have to accept bans just because there is less of them in a country?
> 
> does freedom only apply when you have the power to force it upon others?
> 
> ...


Another person calling names based on a paragraph taken out of context.

A few counter-questions:
Why should Christians have to accept having no religious freedom when there's less of them in a country?
Why should Christians accept bans on their entire person?
How in the hell is forcing something upon others giving them freedom?

In France there is still religious freedom. In the countries I mentioned, there is literally none. You're either Muslim, or you **** off, that's how it goes in those countries. My entire point in the conversation was also not ripping on Muslims, I was just trying to explain that bans on things will not turn people into terrorists. If that was the case, Saudi Arabia, Iran, India, etc., would be bombed by non-Muslim civilians on a daily basis because they can't practice their religion there.

France has made some mistakes, but it's not the bans on burqas that's turning people to the daesh. Rather it's the societal hurdles that exist in the country. If you want to get into good jobs and thus good neighborhoods, you need connections, so these situation are largely only available to people whose family have lived there for over a century. And that's just ONE of its societal problems. Until the country can fix those, they'll sadly have a lot of anger among the unprivileged populace (which also includes non-Muslims), which can and probably will lead to situations like 13/11.

I never attacked Islam, I only said that if they come to another country there are rules they have to abide to (using myself as an example BECAUSE I HAD TO DO THE SAME). I don't support statements like alesha's or other people's of the same caliber. All I see in your statement above is that you seem to enjoy drawing conclusions based on a short snippet of a much larger conversation.

I'm not the one calling others names here, I'm not the ones making claims about others' intelligence, and I'm not attacking anyone. I understand your anger, but taking it out on people like you have here just makes you look bad. Unless you can discuss things like a normal person, I see no reason to spend time talking to you.


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## earthquake (Nov 22, 2015)

Reindeer said:


> Another person calling names based on a paragraph taken out of context.
> 
> A few counter-questions:
> Why should Christians have to accept having no religious freedom when there's less of them in a country?
> ...



i said that muslims should not have to accept having little to no religious freedom because there is less of them, and if youll look back, i also said that no one else should have to either. its simply not something i can support. regardless of your religion, you should be allowed to practice your religion however youd like. putting other countries into the argument doesnt make what france did any better, and its time we change our personalities rather than justifying actions by calling out other negative actions. 

i also said that in situations like these, muslims have no freedom unless they force the idea that they too are people onto people who refuse to see them as anything other than hostile animals, not "forcing freedom" upon them. sorry if i was unclear. 

again, my point against your whole ideology, not just a snippet of it, is that you cannot expect people to give up whole parts of themselves to blend into a new population, and itd be wrong to do so. christians and muslims alike do not deserve to have religious freedom taken from them.

by the way, i am muslim; sorry if i let my personal anger and fear get in the way of my argument.


----------



## emolga (Nov 22, 2015)

Hi guys, hope this doesn't come off as too disrespectful but I saw an auction for a custom Palutena amiibo on Ebay. All funds raised are going to the Red Cross.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/262154297888

They were originally going to donate to the French Red Cross, but unfortunately Ebay doesn't allow donations to international charities. Either way, the money raised will be going to a good cause.

You can also donate to the French Red Cross from this website. 

https://www.ammado.com/nonprofit/crf


----------



## Acruoxil (Nov 22, 2015)

Yo, sorry for being a lazy arse but can anyone update me on the whole situation since the Paris attacks? I'm sure it'd be useful for others, too.


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## alesha (Nov 22, 2015)

#prayforfrance
#prayfortheworld


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## piichinu (Nov 22, 2015)

duck said:


> LMAO hi im muslim not middle eastern but because of my religion and the very color of my skin, i get called a terrorist.
> learn some stuff if youre not of the group being attacked before you make presumptuous posts online about it.



literally what does this even have to do with my post

all i said was anyone brown was gonna be verbally attacked regardless of religious affiliation

??

and i am in the group being attacked , so,,, maybe stay away from this thread cuz you're pretty damn angry aren't u


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## Reindeer (Nov 22, 2015)

duck said:


> hahahahahahaha. no one should ever have to integrate. dont you think that being able to love yourself, your heritage, and your culture is important? i certainly hold that at a higher standard that being able to assimilate.


Integrating doesn't mean giving up your entire past and person. It means accepting the new country's rules, learning the language and customs. I still enjoy things from my own culture even while I have integrated.

The kind of people I talk about negatively are the people that have lived in a country for 20+ years and, for example, can't speak the language one bit. Either they should learn the language or go back to their own country. Poles are the main offenders in this country.

This was a legit concern brought up by politicians here in The Netherlands over a decade ago. New laws were passed, and now we have courses for migrants to take so they can learn the language, the history, and some of our culture. But at no point are they told they have to abandon their culture or religion. Going through this helps them to get jobs, schooling, and so forth, and it helps the country by turning them into a functioning part of society. It's a win-win. This is the kind of integration I was talking about.



duck said:


> i said that muslims should not have to accept having little to no religious freedom because there is less of them, and if youll look back, i also said that no one else should have to either. its simply not something i can support. regardless of your religion, you should be allowed to practice your religion however youd like. putting other countries into the argument doesnt make what france did any better, and its time we change our personalities rather than justifying actions by calling out other negative actions.


The ban applies to things that cover the face. That's burqas and niqabs, but also things like balaclavas and masks, and even fursuits. Hijabs and chadors are still allowed and worn in France. The reason faces can't be covered is just a security concern, as it hinders facial identification.

Admittedly it started with Sarkozy's comments on religious attire, but the eventual law that they passed doesn't apply just to Muslims. And in the end, it's a means of protecting the people of France - including the Muslims.

You can read more about the law on this Wikipedia page.



duck said:


> i also said that in situations like these, muslims have no freedom unless they force the idea that they too are people onto people who refuse to see them as anything other than hostile animals, not "forcing freedom" upon them. sorry if i was unclear.


Any people that can think clearly know that Muslims are people - and that speaks volumes about a part of Western society. In the last week there have been various reports of people threatening and attacking Muslims in retaliation for the Paris attacks. That's unacceptable.



duck said:


> again, my point against your whole ideology, not just a snippet of it, is that you cannot expect people to give up whole parts of themselves to blend into a new population, and itd be wrong to do so. christians and muslims alike do not deserve to have religious freedom taken from them.


I hope my statements earlier in this post will clear up what I meant. Basically: nobody has to give up their person and culture, they should be able to practice their religion as freely as possible, and they should accept the rules of the country they're in.

A lot of noise is being made for the rights of a certain group of people in certain countries. I think noise should be made to give people the same rights across the world. Until we can achieve that, there are some rules that people of certain religious persuasions have to follow in specific countries.

--------------------------------------------



Aerate said:


> Yo, sorry for being a lazy arse but can anyone update me on the whole situation since the Paris attacks? I'm sure it'd be useful for others, too.


There was a bomb scare in Hannover at a soccer match, though reports now say that it was a real threat. The information given to German intelligence by French intelligence had concrete evidence an attack was being planned there.

Brussels has been in lockdown since yesterday afternoon, after concrete evidence emerged that an attack was planned there. Police and military are on the streets, and the metro system has been shut down. People are advised to stay home, and not to gather in large groups.

Raids have been carried out in both Belgium and France to capture more suspects. Some of those (around 10, if I remember correctly) have already been charged with terrorism.

The planner of various terrorist attacks in France was found to have participated in the Paris attacks. They traced him to the Saint Denis house of his niece which they raided last Wednesday. An unidentified man blew himself up with a bomb vest, killing the niece. The planner was killed in the firefight.

One of the terrorists is still on the run, and reported to be in or around Molenbeek in Belgium. Apparently he was supposed to use his bomb vest but chickened out. He's now on the run from both the police and the daesh.

There's a rise in hate-crimes and threats against Muslims in Western countries. Basically it's morons taking out their anger on the wrong people.

France has intensified strikes in Syria, and a coalition is starting to form which also includes Russia. Raqqa (the de facto capital of the ISIS caliphate) has been cut off from the rest of Syria, as well as Iraq, thanks to coordinated efforts by the coalition and the Kurd ground troops. Sadly a hospital run by MSF was bombed as well, killing two.
What the coalition with Russia will do is still unknown. The West wants Assad gone while Russia still supports Assad.

And France is now preparing antidotes in case terrorists have managed to get their hands on chemical or biological weapons.

I might have missed something, but I think that's most of it.


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## radical6 (Nov 22, 2015)

so china declared war on ISIS

im pretty sure its mostly because their small muslim population is leaving to join ISIS. its only a few but their muslim population is already a really small minority over there and tensions are very high. i think some 80 yr old guy and his family left to join them but thats it, but theres already more fears the rest of them will go. 

and @duck i dont think piichinu was saying that muslims werent gonna get attacked. they obviously will be. but theres the belief in the west for some reason that every brown person = muslim

heck, a christian brown man was attacked because someone thought he was muslim. 

most muslims are brown/black so anytime some western person sees a brown person theyre gonna assume theyre muslim. and maybe even attack them like above. 

i understand youre very upset and emotional about this. i used to be like you when arguing about things that mattered deeply to me. i understand youre scared right know because of the rampant islamphobia going around. but i think you should try to take a deep breath and relax a little before posting anymore. this is obviously stressing you out so its good to take a break. i dont think reindeer meant any harm either by his statements, neither did piichinu. im not blaming you for reacting like you did, but its not healthy for you and you should perhaps take a break from this if it makes you this upset.


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## Cheremtasy (Nov 22, 2015)

I could ramble about it for a long time, but I'll jut write a short paragraph.
I don't understand why or how people cold be so cruel and screwed up to end the lives of over 100 people, and not just people, but innocents. It's extremely unfair. Each life matters, and everyone of those people who died that day could have lived a long, happy life. But no, that didn't happen because these terrorists decide to come and selfishly take away their precious lives.
The Charlie Hebdo attack was scary enough, with 12 people dead, but this is a whole new level. Paris, which had always been a beautiful, popular and safe place is now tainted and dangerous. It affects the people who live there and tourism as well. I mean, I for one would be scared to go there because you never know if/when an attack could occur again. It's downright horrible.


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## Gregriii (Nov 22, 2015)

that's why communities suck


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## nintendofan85 (Nov 24, 2015)

At the French pavilion at Epcot at Disney World in Orlando, they had the Eiffel Tower copy illuminated into the colors of the French flag.


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