# What gender are you?



## Moddie

People wanted a more inclusive poll, and here it is.
I hope I haven't missed anyone out. ^_^

(I am aware of the spelling error, sorry about that.)


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## Mariah

You spelled labels wrong. Better remake the poll.


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## tobi!

Was this thread really necessary?


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## Moddie

Mariah said:


> You spelled labels wrong. Better remake the poll.



Oh, darn dyslexia. Thanks for pointing that out.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Norski said:


> Was this thread really necessary?



Is any thread necessary?


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## Mango

*I HAVE NO GENDER, ONLY RAGE.*


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## lithiumlatte

Norski said:


> Was this thread really necessary?



Here we go...sighs


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## Puffy

My gender is City Escape constantly played on repeat
I'm non binary


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## oath2order

ok i have to ask

what the hell is bigender like does that mean you actually have the two parts of each sex or do you just identify as both genders

and then on that note if identify as bigender then what's the difference between that and genderfluid


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## Jawile

Is mayonnaise a gender


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## aliscka

You identify as two genders simultaneously. Fluid is switching between them.


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## Capella

oath2order said:


> ok i have to ask
> 
> what the hell is bigender like does that mean you actually have the two parts of each sex or *do you just identify as both genders*
> 
> and then on that note if identify as bigender then what's the difference between that and genderfluid



genderfluid is where u feel like a boy on somedays but on another day u feel more like a girl
uh correct me if im wrong please


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## oath2order

aliscka said:


> You identify as both genders simultaneously. Fluid is switching between them.



so you can be both bigender and genderfluid at the same time or one but not the other,r ight?


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## aliscka

Capella said:


> genderfluid is where u feel like a boy on somedays but on another day u feel more like a girl
> uh correct me if im wrong please



You're not exactly wrong, but restricting fluid to going between _two_ genders can offend some people (*cough*Tumblrusers). Fluids can also go between being agender, bigender, etc.. Ya feel? It's just fluidity in general.

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oath2order said:


> so you can be both bigender and genderfluid at the same time or one but not the other,r ight?



Yup!


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## Capella

aliscka said:


> You're not exactly wrong, but restricting fluid to going between _two_ genders can offend some people (*cough*Tumblrusers). Fluids can also go between being agender, bigender, etc.. Ya feel? It's just fluidity in general.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> 
> 
> Yup!



oh ok thanks!!! sorry btw


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## aliscka

Capella said:


> oh ok thanks!!! sorry btw



You're completely fine, don't worry.  Non-binary gender identities are still relatively unknown in modern society so don't feel bad for not knowing or being wrong about something.


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## 0xalis

If anyone gets offended by this thread's existence I have a suggestion for them: Redirect to another page. Congratulations.

I'm a nonbinary dude. Like, I'm a "he" but also a "they" if you get what I'm saying.


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## Mango

oath2order said:


> ok i have to ask
> 
> what the hell is bigender like does that mean you actually have the two parts of each sex or do you just identify as both genders
> 
> and then on that note if identify as bigender then what's the difference between that and genderfluid



gender and sex are 2 different things 

bigender is you identify as 2 genders
genderfluid means your gender is fluid (dur)

- - - Post Merge - - -

but srsly. im a demigirl. DEMIGIRL/BOY OPTIONS HUZZZAAAAHHHH

*DEMIGIRL RAGE.*


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## Naamah

I don't like labels. Especially when they're misspelled.


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## Mango

laughs also male and female arent genders its girl or boy *slithers out*


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## Kaiaa

It goes without saying, make sure no argument happens here. The same warning given in the Male/Female thread carries over to here. 

As for on topicness, I identify as female. I always have.


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## infinikitten

(bless you kaiaa)


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## lithiumlatte

Just quickly, it's not nice to point out people's spelling mistakes, it could be a simple typo or they may just struggle with spelling! And it distracts from their topic 

On topic, I'm genderfluid.  Lovely to see some others in here <3


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## rariorana

I'm a girl. There was a point in time that I thought I was genderfluid but then I realized that the world's not gonna cater to my special snowflake gender and I smartened up.

So now I've fully accepted that I'm a girl, that's all I'll ever be, and I'm happy with it
?\_(ツ)_/?


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## L. Lawliet

Im happy being a straight white guy. As long as people are cool with me, I'm cool with them.


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## Timegear

I'm a girl!


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## Bon Bonne

my gender? it is a mystery


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## fup10k

She/They
(Never thought about how to classify it tho)


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## okaimii

I'm a girl but I really wish I was a guy sometimes. I just feel I'd be more comfy that way and I feel it "fits" with my personality and all that jazz.

Hope I didn't accidentally offend anyone.


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## Joy

I'm a girl.


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## Dulcettie

I feel like I helped start a war and I feel really bad ;3;


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## M O L K O

Dulcettie said:


> I feel like I helped start a war and I feel really bad ;3;


if u try to make any intelligent topic on TBT expect backlash, arguments and it to be locked within three days. It's not you, its the community. 


rariorana said:


> I'm a girl. There was a point in time that I thought I was genderfluid but then I realized that the world's not gonna cater to my special snowflake gender and I smartened up.
> 
> So now I've fully accepted that I'm a girl, that's all I'll ever be, and I'm happy with it
> ?\_(ツ)_/?



You must be fun at parties


anyway..

I'll say ??? . I was actually supposed to be a male, like my mom had bought boy stuff cuz the doctors thought I was a boy and were postitive I was until I was born and it was like haha **** what u thought and I'm all female soooo
I'll say I'm a female but I like the idea of genderfluid. the whole concept is still new to me so I kinda go with the flow and learn about it when I can.


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## ellabella12345

Jawile said:


> Is mayonnaise a gender



Mayonnaise isn't a gender. Horse radish isn't a gender either.

- - - Post Merge - - -

I am female, yes. Have been since I was born believe it or not.


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## Cazqui

I'm Genderfluid I guess, but I don't really label myself as it, if that makes sense.


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## cosmic-latte

I think the most important thing to realize is that whether or not you are aware of what all the different genders mean, respect the fact that not everyone identifies as simply male or simply female.


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## Tao

Male.

I don't really understand all the 'identifying as x' stuff. I'm just a man and I'm male.


People can do what they want to though. It doesn't really effect me sooooo yea.






ellabella12345 said:


> I am female, yes. Have been since I was born believe it or not.



My 'gender war' senses are tingling.


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## oranges_ate_you

Jawile said:


> Is mayonnaise a gender



How long were you sitting on that one?

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ellabella12345 said:


> I am female, yes. Have been since I was born believe it or not.



Wow I didn't believe it until now, do tell us more about this interesting new found fact!


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## -Byron

I am a male, but I have this mask I call "Claudia" that I sometimes wear while I talk to myself in the bathroom mirror.


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## Brackets

i don't want to sound ignorant but i really don't get the genderfluid / demigirl/boy thing. Like... do people really think about their genders and *feel* like their genders that much? i'm a girl but i don't go 'ohhh i feel like a female', I just feel like *me*. I just don't really get what 'feeling' like a boy/girl is supposed to be like.


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## Leela

I'm female. 

Does anyone have a good explanation of all these genders? From looking each one up on Google, I got varied results - many relating to a person's anatomical sex rather than gender. I'm unclear on 'bigender', 'androgynous' and 'non-binary'.



-Byron said:


> I am a male, but I have this mask I call "Claudia" that I sometimes wear while I talk to myself in the bathroom mirror.



I kind of want to see that now...


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## Tap Dancer

Brackets said:


> i don't want to sound ignorant but i really don't get the genderfluid / demigirl/boy thing. Like... do people really think about their genders and *feel* like their genders that much? i'm a girl but i don't go 'ohhh i feel like a female', I just feel like *me*. I just don't really get what 'feeling' like a boy/girl is supposed to be like.



I still don't understand it all, but I respect everyone.  There weren't many labels for people when I was growing up (in the 80s and 90s) and I live out in the country, so I haven't met many types of people. I know I'm more ignorant than the younger posters here, but I'm _not_ intolerant.

To keep this on topic, I'm an adult woman.


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## Leela

Brackets said:


> i don't want to sound ignorant but i really don't get the genderfluid / demigirl/boy thing. Like... do people really think about their genders and *feel* like their genders that much? i'm a girl but i don't go 'ohhh i feel like a female', I just feel like *me*. I just don't really get what 'feeling' like a boy/girl is supposed to be like.



True. I don't sit and think "Mmm, I am a female" (awkward wording but nvm). I think more about my personality than gender... but maybe I don't think about my gender too much because people tend to assume I identify as female anyway. I'm not sure on that one.


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## M O L K O

Tao said:


> Male.
> 
> I don't really understand all the 'identifying as x' stuff. I'm just a man and I'm male.
> 
> 
> People can do what they want to though. It doesn't really effect me sooooo yea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My 'gender war' senses are tingling.



This is it, this is the best post, close thread.

OT 
gender stuff is so weird to me, like -puts on dress- I am girl? -puts on pants- now I am boy?
-puts on earrings- +2 fem powers -puts on baseball cap- +4 male powers????
Is it a switch in my brain like ... ok im feeling like a girl today..nah male, nah girl, nah male nah....

I'm very confused on this subject and I'm always trying to learn more but I just get left with so many questions but I respect they/them stuff but I'm not calling ppl animal pronouns or w/e the **** ppl have come up with.


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## EmmaFrost

cosmic-latte said:


> I think the most important thing to realize is that whether or not you are aware of what all the different genders mean, respect the fact that not everyone identifies as simply male or simply female.



This. 
And declaring that you "don't understand" something doesn't change the fact that it's real. It shows you'd rather be dismissive than informed.


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## Tap Dancer

Illyana said:


> And declaring that you "don't understand" something doesn't change the fact that it's real. It shows you'd rather be dismissive than informed.



Well, really, I _don't_ understand, but that doesn't mean I'm not open to learning. I looked at a link that defined a lot of things, and I'm still very confused. I need the "For Dummies" version. If simplified info could be provided, I'd read it. You don't learn if you don't ask.


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## Beardo

So we finally get a thread that recognizes more than male and female, and people are complaining... why?


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## Stalfos

Morrissey said it best.


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## -Byron

Brackets said:


> i don't want to sound ignorant but i really don't get the genderfluid / demigirl/boy thing. Like... do people really think about their genders and *feel* like their genders that much? i'm a girl but i don't go 'ohhh i feel like a female', I just feel like *me*. I just don't really get what 'feeling' like a boy/girl is supposed to be like.



The world would be a much better place if we could profoundly understand each others subjective experiences, wouldn't it?


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## Moddie

I've read a few comments here stating confusion with a few of the terms and such. 
I'll try and explain as simply as possible and I thought I'd share one of my favourite charts. It think it's clear and it helps a lot of people. The main thing to remember is that gender is a spectrum. Not just male and female. 


[If image is difficult to see here's a link to a larger image.]

Bigender - Identifying as two genders, normally male and female. You could identify as both at the same time and/or you can go back and forth between them.

Androgynous - Between male and female, or entirely genderless 

Genderfluid - Switches between genders. 

Non-binary - Umbrella term for those who's gender is neither male or female.

(I identify as non-binary. If I have gotten the definition of any of these wrong - please correct me.)
Most of these definitions overlap, but I wanted to include a lot as many labels as possible as many people will identify with a particular term as oppose to a general, less specific one.


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## Tap Dancer

The only problem (?) with that chart is sexual orientation shows heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual. The fourth one isn't listed: asexual.


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## Brackets

i wasn't saying that genderfluids don't exist or anything. But i was just saying what is feeling like a girl/boy supposed to even feel like?


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## -Byron

Is asexual a sexual orientation, or is it the lack of one? I would think that if you were asexual the scale simply wouldn't apply to you.


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## Stalfos

Moddie said:


> I've read a few comments here stating confusion with a few of the terms and such.
> I'll try and explain as simply as possible and I thought I'd share one of my favourite charts. It think it's clear and it helps a lot of people. The main thing to remember is that gender is a spectrum. Not just male and female.



Thanks. This makes things a bit more understandable.
Reading this I'd probably say I'm non-binary but I voted "I don't like labels" which is also true.


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## Moddie

Tap Dancer said:


> The only problem (?) with that chart is sexual orientation shows heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual. The fourth one isn't listed: asexual.



Whoops, my bad, I didn't realise I added the older version of the chart. I should have noticed that being ace myself. ^^;
I've updated it now to show the second version which includes asexuality.


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## Tap Dancer

-Byron said:


> Is asexual a sexual orientation, or is it the lack of one? I would think that if you were asexual the scale simply wouldn't apply to you.



Asexual means you're not sexually attracted to anyone.


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## honeymoo

I'm a boy


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## Moddie

-Byron said:


> Is asexual a sexual orientation, or is it the lack of one? I would think that if you were asexual the scale simply wouldn't apply to you.



It's a lack of sexual attraction. The scale doesn't apply to us, no, but it's important to remember asexuals exist.


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## Aryxia

Brackets said:


> i wasn't saying that genderfluids don't exist or anything. But i was just saying what is feeling like a girl/boy supposed to even feel like?



I don't think that when you're cis it's a conscious thought, but I was talking to my friend, who has been diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and for them being addressed as a girl just feels _wrong_; at times it can physically manifest itself in their chest. In their case it has led to depression and anxiety, which they have overcome. I think this post was the one I found easiest to understand when I was learning about genderfluidity


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## infinikitten

If you don't know what it "means" to feel like your assigned gender, then congratulations: you are cis! haha

Honestly, it's kind of a luxury (not the word I'm looking for but I just woke up, gimme a break here) to be 100% content with the gender other people assign you at birth. Feeling like it doesn't fit you, and trying to explain that to the people around you, is an incredible struggle. Being confused makes sense, because if you always feel like "you" and have no qualms with said assigned gender, it can totally throw you for a loop to hear other people say that they don't "feel" like [insert gender identity here] - so I'm happy y'all are asking questions instead of being rude arseholes and I just wanted to say that.

I'm really not in the right headspace to tackle any of these questions myself - it took me like twenty minutes to write that paragraph (I'm so tired, send help, ughhh) but yeah. Personally extending a big ol' fashioned "thank you!" to those of you who are trying to keep this civil.


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## SockHead

Where is booger? I put down male because thats the closest i saw


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## Tap Dancer

infinikitten said:


> Personally extending a big ol' fashioned "thank you!" to those of you who are trying to keep this civil.



People are being much nicer in this thread. I appreciate it too.


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## Leela

Moddie said:


> It's a lack of sexual attraction. The scale doesn't apply to us, no, but it's important to remember asexuals exist.



This has reminded me of when I won your rainbow alpine set giveaway (the sexuality guessing one). I'm asexual too 

Is there a place to talk about sexuality or anything? (I'm vaguely aware of a sexuality support group, I think?) because I don't want to derail the thread too much but sexuality is interesting to talk about... maturely. Unless sexuality is included as part of a person's gender. It might be, looking at the genderbread chart. I really don't know.

Also, thanks for defining the terms in the poll, Moddie.

- - - Post Merge - - -



infinikitten said:


> If you don't know what it "means" to feel like your assigned gender, then congratulations: you are cis! haha
> 
> Honestly, it's kind of a luxury (not the word I'm looking for but I just woke up, gimme a break here) to be 100% content with the gender other people assign you at birth. Feeling like it doesn't fit you, and trying to explain that to the people around you, is an incredible struggle. Being confused makes sense, because if you always feel like "you" and have no qualms with said assigned gender, it can totally throw you for a loop to hear other people say that they don't "feel" like [insert gender identity here] - so I'm happy y'all are asking questions instead of being rude arseholes and I just wanted to say that.
> 
> I'm really not in the right headspace to tackle any of these questions myself - it took me like twenty minutes to write that paragraph (I'm so tired, send help, ughhh) but yeah. Personally extending a big ol' fashioned "thank you!" to those of you who are trying to keep this civil.



It's nice to talk about it maturely  I ran away from the other thread quickly because it descended it arguing. I don't think I consider gender all that much because I'm cisgender, so people just assume I identify as female and it causes no problems with me.


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## Tao

Illyana said:


> This.
> And declaring that you "don't understand" something doesn't change the fact that it's real. It shows you'd rather be dismissive than informed.



No, declaring that you "don't understand something" just means that you "don't understand something". 

It doesn't mean you're not willing to learn about it at all.





Brackets said:


> i wasn't saying that genderfluids don't exist or anything. But i was just saying what is feeling like a girl/boy supposed to even feel like?



Just, this.

I'm a man and I'm not even sure what that's supposed to feel like. I just am. How am I supposed to understand a genderfluid person swapping between genders all the time if I don't even know what the one gender that I am is supposed to feel like?


I just get up in the morning and feel 'like me', not like 'I need to bro out and open some pickle jars' or whatever it is as a man I'm supposed to feel like (I guess you're 'supposed' to feel something, otherwise how do you know you feel like that?)


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## Aryxia

Leela said:


> This has reminded me of when I won your rainbow alpine set giveaway (the sexuality guessing one). I'm asexual too
> 
> Is there a place to talk about sexuality or anything? (I'm vaguely aware of a sexuality support group, I think?) because I don't want to derail the thread too much but sexuality is interesting to talk about... maturely. Unless sexuality is included as part of a person's gender. It might be, looking at the genderbread chart. I really don't know.
> 
> Also, thanks for defining the terms in the poll, Moddie.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> 
> 
> It's nice to talk about it maturely  I ran away from the other thread quickly because it descended it arguing. I don't think I consider gender all that much because I'm cisgender, so people just assume I identify as female and it causes no problems with me.



There's an LGBTQA thread here, but it's kind of dead ^.^;;


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## fup10k

Aryxia said:


> There's an LGBTQA thread here, but it's kind of dead ^.^;;



it's also not very supportive or open-minded 
Tread carefully.


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## Tap Dancer

Tao said:


> No, declaring that you "don't understand something" just means that you "don't understand something".
> 
> It doesn't mean you're not willing to learn about it at all.



Exactly. "I don't understand" and "Don't know; don't care" are two very different attitudes.


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## Moddie

Leela said:


> This has reminded me of when I won your rainbow alpine set giveaway (the sexuality guessing one). I'm asexual too



Oh, I'd forgotten about that giveaway. 
That was fun, I should really do another giveaway like that sometime. 



Leela said:


> Is there a place to talk about sexuality or anything? (I'm vaguely aware of a sexuality support group, I think?) because I don't want to derail the thread too much but sexuality is interesting to talk about... maturely. Unless sexuality is included as part of a person's gender. It might be, looking at the genderbread chart. I really don't know.



Oh, I agree sexuality is an interesting topic. Gender and sexuality are different, but they always come up when topics like this arise. I think the chart brings it up because a lot of people think they're strongly linked. Also there is a thread like you've mentioned but as other people have said it's sadly dead. Or at least it was when I last checked it out.


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## Ghost Soda

You know, kinda wish you could re vote...



fup10k said:


> it's also not very supportive or open-minded
> Tread carefully.



I've been there plenty of times and they're very supportive. Don't know what you're talking about.


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## Brackets

Tao said:


> No, declaring that you "don't understand something" just means that you "don't understand something".
> 
> It doesn't mean you're not willing to learn about it at all.



This - surely saying you don't understand and questioning it shows you're interested in learning?

No, I don't understand how some people can feel male/female/both. But I'm at least trying to understand. And I would never say someone's identity is invalid because I don't understand it.

the only thing that bothers me is when people go the whole way and say that biological sex is just a label assigned to you at birth. No, I'm sorry, but biological sex is a thing, and none of us would be here if it wasn't. There is HUGE differences between the sexes biologically, and as a medical student knowing the sex of a person is extremely important.


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## Shimmer

I'm a female!


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## oath2order

Moddie said:


> I've read a few comments here stating confusion with a few of the terms and such.
> I'll try and explain as simply as possible and I thought I'd share one of my favourite charts. It think it's clear and it helps a lot of people. The main thing to remember is that gender is a spectrum. Not just male and female.
> View attachment 86539
> [If image is difficult to see here's a link to a larger image.]
> 
> Bigender - Identifying as two genders, normally male and female. You could identify as both at the same time and/or you can go back and forth between them.
> 
> Androgynous - Between male and female, or entirely genderless
> 
> Genderfluid - Switches between genders.
> 
> Non-binary - Umbrella term for those who's gender is neither male or female.
> 
> (I identify as non-binary. If I have gotten the definition of any of these wrong - please correct me.)
> Most of these definitions overlap, but I wanted to include a lot as many labels as possible as many people will identify with a particular term as oppose to a general, less specific one.



Wait

By your definition of "bigender", you state that "you can go back and forth between them".

That's the very definition of genderfluid though??? It's confusing, it seems like you could easily condense some of these labels.

im sorry i still get confused there's like 50 million labels and I can't remember them all


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## Moddie

oath2order said:


> Wait
> 
> By your definition of "bigender", you state that "you can go back and forth between them".
> 
> That's the very definition of genderfluid though??? It's confusing, it seems like you could easily condense some of these labels.



Sorry to be confusing. The terms are very similar. Bigender comes from bi meaning two, as in someone who identifies as bigender could switch between two genders. Where as someone who is genderfluid could switch between more than that.


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## Tao

Moddie said:


> Sorry to be confusing. The terms are very similar. Bigender comes from bi meaning two, as in someone who identifies as bigender could switch between two genders. Where as someone who is genderfluid could switch between more than that.




More than that being? Like...A third gender aside from male and female?


Is this where all the people who identify as a cat or something come into it, or is that a different thing entirely?


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## Aryxia

Tao said:


> More than that being? Like...A third gender aside from male and female?
> 
> 
> Is this where all the people who identify as a cat or something come into it, or is that a different thing entirely?



That would be different. I think it's called otherkin. The main other gender I can think of is "non-binary," meaning neither male nor female, but I'm sure there are others that I'm unaware of :x


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## Moddie

Tao said:


> More than that being? Like...A third gender aside from male and female?
> 
> 
> Is this where all the people who identify as a cat or something come into it, or is that a different thing entirely?



Yes, I'm talking about genders aside from male and female. Third gender is actually the correct term for many people. It's a term many societies use for people who's gender is neither man nor woman. But many cultures believe there to be even more than three genders. It's a little complicated, but very interesting if you've the time to research further. 

You're thinking of otherkin, which is not linked to gender. I'm not otherkin and I don't know much about it, but as I understand it, it's a spiritual identity.


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## Yoshisaur

Moddie said:


> I've read a few comments here stating confusion with a few of the terms and such.
> I'll try and explain as simply as possible and I thought I'd share one of my favourite charts. It think it's clear and it helps a lot of people. The main thing to remember is that gender is a spectrum. Not just male and female.
> View attachment 86539
> [If image is difficult to see here's a link to a larger image.]
> 
> Bigender - Identifying as two genders, normally male and female. You could identify as both at the same time and/or you can go back and forth between them.
> 
> Androgynous - Between male and female, or entirely genderless
> 
> Genderfluid - Switches between genders.
> 
> Non-binary - Umbrella term for those who's gender is neither male or female.
> 
> (I identify as non-binary. If I have gotten the definition of any of these wrong - please correct me.)
> Most of these definitions overlap, but I wanted to include a lot as many labels as possible as many people will identify with a particular term as oppose to a general, less specific one.


So if someone is both genders, as in they have the reproductive organs of both genders, are they still bi-gender? Are people who identify as both on a non-physical level also considered bi-gender? People who were both physically used to be called hermaphrodites but is that term offensive now, I notice it doesn't get used a lot, or does it simply have a different name for it?
I don't know a lot about this stuff and would like to learn.


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## Mercedes

I'm so ****ing confused.
What happend to male female shemale and Trans. 
Omg so annoying can you just pick one of the 4 and get over it. 
My gender is robot. 
There are like 20 genders here. Why ;_; I'm sooo lost


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## Zane

Yoshisaur said:


> So if someone is both genders, as in they have the reproductive organs of both genders, are they still bi-gender? Are people who identify as both on a non-physical level also considered bi-gender? People who were both physically used to be called hermaphrodites but is that term offensive now, I notice it doesn't get used a lot, or does it simply have a different name for it?
> I don't know a lot about this stuff and would like to learn.



That might be intersex you're thinking of. A quick google definition gives me this since I'm too lazy to type my own stuff out:
"Intersex, in humans and other animals, is a variation in sex characteristics including chromosomes, gonads, or genitals that do not allow an individual to be distinctly identified as male or female."
but there's definitely more to the topic u can look up.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Luckypinch said:


> I'm so ****ing confused.
> What happend to male female shemale and Trans.
> Omg so annoying can you just pick one of the 4 and get over it.
> My gender is robot.
> There are like 20 genders here. Why ;_; I'm sooo lost



"shemale" isn't a gender it's a transmisogynist slur


----------



## Yoshisaur

Luckypinch said:


> I'm so ****ing confused.
> What happend to male female shemale and Trans.
> Omg so annoying can you just pick one of the 4 and get over it.
> My gender is robot.
> There are like 20 genders here. Why ;_; I'm sooo lost


I'm pretty confused too. I am assuming (sorry if wrong) trans is just if you identify as the gender opposite of your sex. Which at that point people will often go through treatment to change if they can. So a trans person would be able to answer this question as male or female depending on what they identify as. The others are more complicated so they have a different classification. Shemale however, wouldn't that be the same as trans? idk

- - - Post Merge - - -



Zane said:


> That might be intersex you're thinking of. A quick google definition gives me this since I'm too lazy to type my own stuff out:
> "Intersex, in humans and other animals, is a variation in sex characteristics including chromosomes, gonads, or genitals that do not allow an individual to be distinctly identified as male or female."
> but there's definitely more to the topic u can look up.



Thanks! It all makes sense now, I think.


----------



## Mercedes

Yoshisaur said:


> I'm pretty confused too. I am assuming (sorry if wrong) trans is just if you identify as the gender opposite of your sex. Which at that point people will often go through treatment to change if they can. So a trans person would be able to answer this question as male or female depending on what they identify as. The others are more complicated so they have a different classification. Shemale however, wouldn't that be the same as trans? idk


No because a shemale has boobies and boy parts.
Also only some Trans ppl go through treatment, but yeah that's mostly the case.


----------



## lithiumlatte

Props to all the people who have shown an interest in learning and have asked questions about what they don't yet understand <3 
It's so great to see. 



Luckypinch said:


> I'm so ****ing confused.
> What happend to male female *shemale* and Trans.
> Omg *so annoying can you just pick one of the 4* and get over it.
> *My gender is robot. *
> There are like 20 genders here. Why ;_; I'm sooo lost



Can you please keep your transphobic comments out of this thread, it's mostly been going really well so far.


----------



## Mercedes

lithiumlatte said:


> Props to the all the people have shown interest in learning and have asked questions about what they don't understand just yet <3
> It's so great to see.
> 
> 
> Can you please keep your *transphobic* comments out of this thread, it's mostly been going really well so far.



Why would you think I have somthing against Trans? I said that was one of the genders I think are real. :/ Kinda confused.
I was saying Male, Female, Shemale and Trans. Are real genders. Idek, were you get that from..


----------



## Yoshisaur

Thanks to people answer questions as well! I had not heard of some of the options in the poll before today, but now I'm all educated 'n stuff.


----------



## Aradai

Luckypinch said:


> Why would you think I have somthing against Trans? I said that was one of the genders I think are real. :/ Kinda confused.
> I was saying Male, Female, Shemale and Trans. Are real genders. Idek, were you get that from..


as stated by Zane, shemale isnt a gender, its a slur.


----------



## Mercedes

Aradai said:


> as stated by Zane, shemale isnt a gender, its a slur.



Oh I did not know that.


----------



## infinikitten

Saying you don't think other genders are "real" is a fairly transphobic point of view, and making light of gender issues : "my gender is robot"... :/ Not cool, my friend, rein it in a little bit there please.

That one hiccup aside, I want to applaud everyone in this thread for being fairly mature and civil, and handling these kinds of discussions well. LOL I know I sound like a mom being all "Good job at playing nice, kids!" but really, good job, I'm happy to see it. I half expected another explosion of arguments and general awfulness, but asking questions without being facetious is a huge help to pretty much everyone involved and yeah, pat yourselves on the back for learning. (I'd pat your backs for you, but y'know, distance. ;p)


----------



## Mercedes

infinikitten said:


> Saying you don't think other genders are "real" is a fairly transphobic point of view, and making light of gender issues : "my gender is robot"... :/ Not cool, my friend, rein it in a little bit there please.
> 
> That one hiccup aside, I want to applaud everyone in this thread for being fairly mature and civil, and handling these kinds of discussions well. LOL I know I sound like a mom being all "Good job at playing nice, kids!" but really, good job, I'm happy to see it. I half expected another explosion of arguments and general awfulness, but asking questions without being facetious is a huge help to pretty much everyone involved and yeah, pat yourselves on the back for learning. (I'd pat your backs for you, but y'know, distance. ;p)



But that's what my mom said. And that's not even transphobic omg. I all for Trans, in fact there is a Trans boy in my school, we give him my brothers clothes (they are nice and he's asking for male clothes.) so don't call me transphobic, if I was I would be ew Nasty y is that girl wearing boy clothes??! But I don't. So yeah. I'm only 13 so yeah.


----------



## oath2order

lithiumlatte said:


> Props to all the people who have shown an interest in learning and have asked questions about what they don't yet understand <3
> It's so great to see.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you please keep your transphobic comments out of this thread, it's mostly been going really well so far.



It's very clear that Lucky does not understand trans issues as well as some other people. How about educate instead of insult?


----------



## Mercedes

oath2order said:


> It's very clear that Lucky does not understand trans issues as well as some other people. How about educate instead of insult?



Thank you oath.


----------



## zoetrope

Also, I want to point out that transgenderism isn't a gender itself, but it's a condition in which someone's biological sex does not match up with their perceived gender.  Someone who was born with male genitals but identifies as female would be considered... female.  They may call themselves things like transwoman or even shemale or tranny (I don't know, are those terms that are being reclaimed?) but they should still be considered female.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.  I'm just going off of some classes I took 10 years ago.


----------



## Yoshisaur

zoetrope said:


> Also, I want to point out that transgenderism isn't a gender itself, but it's a condition in which someone's biological sex does not match up with their perceived gender.  Someone who was born with male genitals but identifies as female would be considered... female.  They may call themselves things like transwoman or even shemale or tranny (I don't know, are those terms that are being reclaimed?) but they should still be considered female.
> 
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong.  I'm just going off of some classes I took 10 years ago.



That's also my perception and understanding of transgender.


----------



## lithiumlatte

Luckypinch said:


> But that's what my mom said. *And that's not even transphobic omg.* I all for Trans, in fact there is a Trans boy in my school, we give him my brothers clothes (they are nice and he's asking for male clothes.) so don't call me transphobic, if I was I would be ew Nasty y is that girl wearing boy clothes??! But I don't. So yeah. I'm only 13 so yeah.



Just quickly, it's up to trans/nb people to decide what is transphobic or offensive and what isn't, not you, or any cisgender person.

 Although, I didn't realize you were so young when I made my post, so to me it seemed like you were in full understanding of what you were saying, so I'm sorry for that! By no means do I expect you to know everything, just to be aware of what you said.
But yes, please try to take what infinikitten said on board!



oath2order said:


> It's very clear that Lucky does not understand trans issues as well as some other people. How about educate instead of insult?


I didn't insult lucky, I pointed out that they were making transphobic comments, which they were. I shouldn't have to be polite to someone who insults people in that way - that wouldn't be mutual respect. How are they ever going to learn if someone doesn't tell them that what they said was offensive?  However, I do admit I didn't realize they were so young, so I apologise to lucky for not taking that into consideration! I don't expect Lucky to be a fountain of knowledge at that age whatsoever, of course I don't! Only to keep the rude remarks in check.


----------



## Aryxia

Luckypinch said:


> But that's what my mom said. And that's not even transphobic omg. I all for Trans, in fact there is a Trans boy in my school, we give him my brothers clothes (they are nice and he's asking for male clothes.) so don't call me transphobic, if I was I would be ew Nasty y is that girl wearing boy clothes??! But I don't. So yeah. I'm only 13 so yeah.



Alright here we go~

1. Just because your mom, or any other respectable figure, says something is _____ doesn't mean that said thing is _______. I'm not saying that your mom (or any other figure you may look up to) isn't a reliable person, but each and every single person is going to have their own biases and may not be as well versed in certain issues as other people. I think that when it comes to social/political/economic issues, it's our duty as educated people to research as many different angles and perspectives as possible, and thirteen isn't to early to start!

2.While trans definitely describe transgender people, to many people it has evolved to become an umbrella term for anyone falling outside of the gender binary, that is, male and female. This may include genderfluid people, non-binary people, bigender people, etc. Like trans people, they may (and probably do) feel a great amount of discomfort, pain, etc. if addressed as another gender  In essence, misgendering them or saying that their gender isn't real is like saying "You were born a boy, and you're going to stay that way!" to a trans female. Needless to say, that's a pretty bad thing to say. Remember, gender does not equal sex, and gender is a man-made social construct, so it can easily be said that there are more than 4 genders~

I hope this helped! I'm a cis girl, so I can't really speak from personal experience ^.^;; 

Anyway, for those interested, this is a huge list of genderqueer identities, and this is a really interesting read on some NA First Nations Two-Spirit beliefs


----------



## Mercedes

lithiumlatte said:


> Just quickly, itt's up to trans/nb people to decide what is transphobic or offensive and what isn't, not you.
> 
> Although, I didn't realize you were so young when I made my post, so to me it seemed like you were in full understanding of what you were saying, so I'm sorry for that! By no means do I expect you to know everything, just to be aware of what you said.
> But yes, please try to take what infinikitten said on board!
> 
> 
> I didn't insult lucky, I pointed out that they were making transphobic comments, which they were. I shouldn't have to be polite to someone who insults people in that way. How are they ever going to learn if someone doesn't tell them that what they said was offensive?  However, I do admit I didn't realize they were so young, so I apologise to lucky for not taking that into consideration! I don't expect Lucky to be a fountain of knowledge at that age whatsoever, of course I don't. Only to keep the rude remarks in check.



Yay thanks for apologizing  I'm sorry too. I did not mean to be rude. Also in a girl, I don't like it when ppl call me they or he idk why it bothers me


----------



## zoetrope

Sorry if I'm sounding annoying here but I also wanted to mention that people shouldn't refer to trans people as transsexuals because it objectifies them.  Much like referring to gay people as "the gays" or something like that.

So ends today's 'zoetrope lecture about things he has only a small grasp on.'


----------



## lithiumlatte

Luckypinch said:


> Yay thanks for apologizing  I'm sorry too. I did not mean to be rude. Also in a girl, I don't like it when ppl call me they or he idk why it bothers me



It's only because I wasn't sure which pronouns you'd like to called by - he/him, her/she or something else?
Aryxia's post is really important to read also! We know that you're young, and you're bound to make mistakes. Everything's all good as long you're willing to acknowledge and learn from them


----------



## Aryxia

zoetrope said:


> Sorry if I'm sounding annoying here but I also wanted to mention that people shouldn't refer to trans people as transsexuals because it objectifies them.  Much like referring to gay people as "the gays" or something like that.
> 
> So ends today's 'zoetrope lecture about things he has only a small grasp on.'




Editing my post~ Thanks c:


----------



## zoetrope

Aryxia said:


> Editing my post~ Thanks c:



Oh no!  That wasn't directed at you but instead was a general thought I had.  I hadn't even noticed anything in your post.  I swear I wasn't trying to be passive-aggressive!

I also haven't answered the actual poll yet.  I'm male.


----------



## Aryxia

zoetrope said:


> Oh no!  That wasn't directed at you but instead was a general thought I had.  I hadn't even noticed anything in your post.  I swear I wasn't trying to be passive-aggressive!
> 
> I also haven't answered the actual poll yet.  I'm male.



I didn't take it that way, don't worry!


----------



## oath2order

zoetrope said:


> Sorry if I'm sounding annoying here but I also wanted to mention that people shouldn't refer to trans people as transsexuals because it objectifies them.  Much like referring to gay people as "the gays" or something like that.
> 
> So ends today's 'zoetrope lecture about things he has only a small grasp on.'



so what the **** are you suppose to refer to them as

trans people?

Like okay let's say there's a news article that's covering three studies, one done on gay men, lesbian women, and trans. What's the proper terminology for trans then. I mean, it's perfectly acceptable and commonplace to say, for example, "62% of gay men polled responded with..." and "25% of lesbian women polled responded with..."

so what's the trans thing to say. "37% of trans polled responded with..." sounds odd.


----------



## Murray

oath2order said:


> so what the **** are you suppose to refer to them as
> 
> trans people?
> 
> Like okay let's say there's a news article that's covering three studies, one done on gay men, lesbian women, and trans. What's the proper terminology for trans then. I mean, it's perfectly acceptable and commonplace to say, for example, "62% of gay men polled responded with..." and "25% of lesbian women polled responded with..."
> 
> so what's the trans thing to say. "37% of trans polled responded with..." sounds odd.



i thought trans was just short for transsexual or transgender, it it not (I actually don't know)?


----------



## Zane

Just say trans people if you're talking about trans men and trans women together


----------



## Murray

Zane said:


> Just say trans people if you're talking about trans men and trans women together



but why?


----------



## zoetrope

oath2order said:


> so what the **** are you suppose to refer to them as
> 
> trans people?



Yes.  Actually 'person who is transsexual' would probably be the best way to say it but it sounds a bit clunky.  It follows the 'person first' idea that is used when talking about disabilities.  In that case it is used to combat dehumanization (disabled person vs person who is disabled) but when it comes to transgender issues it can help to combat objectification as well.  The term 'transsexual' seems to emphasize ''us vs. them' even if it is subconscious.


----------



## lunathenia

oath2order said:


> so what the **** are you suppose to refer to them as
> 
> trans people?
> 
> Like okay let's say there's a news article that's covering three studies, one done on gay men, lesbian women, and trans. What's the proper terminology for trans then. I mean, it's perfectly acceptable and commonplace to say, for example, "62% of gay men polled responded with..." and "25% of lesbian women polled responded with..."
> 
> so what's the trans thing to say. "37% of trans polled responded with..." sounds odd.



I have 3 transsexual friends and they refer to themselves as transsexuals and apparently so do their other transsexual friends...


----------



## oath2order

but on that level so could saying "gay man"


----------



## lunathenia

oath2order said:


> but on that level so could saying "gay man"



exactly esp since gay used to mean happy

- - - Post Merge - - -



zoetrope said:


> Yes.  Actually 'person who is transgendered' would probably be the best way to say it but it sounds a bit clunky.  It follows the 'person first' idea that is used when talking about disabilities.  In that case it is used to combat dehumanization (disabled person vs person who is disabled) but when it comes to transgender issues it can help to combat objectification as well.  The term 'transsexual' seems to emphasize ''us vs. them' even if it is subconscious.



transgender would be the wrong term if it was done through a sex change which is what transsexual means... :/


----------



## zoetrope

oath2order said:


> but on that level so could saying "gay man"



The difference would be between calling a group of gay men 'gay men' vs something like 'the gays.'  And I'm really not trying to play PC police or anything here.  I was just making a statement and wasn't trying to say that it was the only correct way to talk about groups of people.

Oh gosh, I feel like a Tumblr user who is foaming at the mouth and full of righteous rage right now. 

- - - Post Merge - - -



lunathenia said:


> transgender would be the wrong term if it was done through a sex change which is what transsexual means... :/



Ack!  I lost my train of thought while typing that.  But it applies to both words really.  I'll edit my post!


----------



## lithiumlatte

'Transsexual' implies surgery, something that many transgender people feel is focused too much on - as if you're less of a man or woman for example, if you haven't had surgery. It's also associated with the slur 'tr**ny' a lot more heavily.



lunathenia said:


> I have 3 transsexual friends and they refer to themselves as transsexuals and apparently so do their other transsexual friends...


It's possible they are trying to reclaim the word, similar to the way some lesbians are trying to reclaim the word 'd*ke' so that it belongs to them again, rather than a slur used by straight people. 
That does not mean it is okay for you to do so, if you are a cisgender person.
This is the same reason why 'reverse racism' is not a thing that can physically exist, despite some white people believing otherwise.


----------



## lunathenia

I don't know what tr**ny and d*ke is so i don't understand your explanation. Sorry.

But here's what I mean by transgender would be the wrong term if it was done through a sex change which is what transsexual means... :/

If someone got a sex change (and hormone treatments), he/she is now a she/he and a transsexual. 
If a he/she identifies oneself as a she/he, the person is a transgender. (no sex change/hormone treatments)

- - - Post Merge - - -

That does not mean it is okay for you to do so, if you are a cisgender person.

Why?

If someone got a sex change, by definition, the person is a transsexual....???


----------



## radical6

Transgender isn't a separate gender. So when someone asks for a trans person gender, they do not say "I'm a transgender". They say trans woman, man, etc. Think of it as an adjective like gay. Gay people do not call themselves a gay.


----------



## kassie

Juuuust going to pop in and say I'm female.

*slides away*


----------



## lunathenia

justice said:


> Transgender isn't a separate gender. So when someone asks for a trans person gender, they do not say "I'm a transgender". They say trans woman, man, etc. Think of it as an adjective like gay. Gay people do not call themselves a gay.



I've had a transsexual friend call himself a transsexual (now a woman) but still refers to herself as a transsexual as well as her other transsexual friends. I also have a quite handful of gay men as friends and they call themselves gay...

So according to you, they are wrong or just less sensitive on the matter than others?


----------



## zoetrope

This is the last thing I'll post about this in this thread.  I found this in GLAAD's media guide to transgendered issues.  Finding this a little earlier would've made my point a bit better! 

Problematic: "transgenders," "a transgender"
Preferred: transgender people, a transgender person
Transgender should be used as an adjective, not as a noun. Do not say, "Tony is a transgender," or "The parade included many transgenders." Instead say, "Tony is a transgender man," or "The parade included many transgender people."

The whole thing is here and is very informative and worth a read:  http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

Sorry I derailed this thread.  I'll take further discussion to the LGBTQA thread. 

Edit:  I'm sure I broke some of GLAAD's rules in previous posts.  Sorry!  I didn't do it on purpose!


----------



## radical6

lunathenia said:


> I've had a transsexual friend call himself a transsexual (now a woman) but still refers to herself as a transsexual as well as her other transsexual friends. I also have a quite handful of gay men as friends and they call themselves gay...
> 
> So according to you, they are wrong or just less sensitive on the matter than others?



No they can call themselves gay, but they don't use it as a noun. It's an adjective? I have never heard of gay people calling themselves that. Lesbian/Bisexual is a bit different though since I see it changed and the sentence still sounds okay. ex "I am a lesbian" "but saying "I am a gay" just sounds really weird. 

Your friend is allowed to describe herself however she wants, but most trans people don't introduce themselves as "Hi I am a transgender" take out the a and the sentence is fine.


----------



## lithiumlatte

lunathenia said:


> I don't know what tr**ny and d*ke is so i don't understand your explanation. Sorry.
> Why?
> 
> If someone got a sex change, by definition, the person is a transsexual....???



It's for tranny and ****. I was trying to be polite by censoring them.

Why? Simply because that is not what the majority of transgender people wish to be referred by, and you should simply respect that. It's a problematic term for the reasons stated at the top of my previous post, and by justice & zoetrope.


----------



## lunathenia

justice said:


> No they can call themselves gay, but they don't use it as a noun. It's an adjective? I have never heard of gay people calling themselves that. Lesbian/Bisexual is a bit different though since I see it changed and the sentence still sounds okay. ex "I am a lesbian" "but saying "I am a gay" just sounds really weird.
> 
> Your friend is allowed to describe herself however she wants, but most trans people don't introduce themselves as "Hi I am a transgender" take out the a and the sentence is fine.



Gay people say I am gay and I've never come across someone who had a problem with others saying he/she is gay to someone else as long as they were fine with the other person knowing.

- - - Post Merge - - -



justice said:


> No they can call themselves gay, but they don't use it as a noun. It's an adjective? I have never heard of gay people calling themselves that. Lesbian/Bisexual is a bit different though since I see it changed and the sentence still sounds okay. ex "I am a lesbian" "but saying "I am a gay" just sounds really weird.
> 
> Your friend is allowed to describe herself however she wants, but most trans people don't introduce themselves as "Hi I am a transgender" take out the a and the sentence is fine.



ok I finally get what you mean now, I thought it was something else.


----------



## lithiumlatte

lunathenia said:


> Gay people say I am gay and I've never come across someone who had a problem with others saying he/she is gay to someone else as long as they were fine with the other person knowing.



I think justice was trying to say that saying eg. 'I am *a* gay' is what sounds strange - like using it as a noun.


----------



## lunathenia

lithiumlatte said:


> It's for tranny and ****. I was trying to be polite by censoring them.
> 
> Why? Simply because that is not what the majority of transgender people wish to be referred by, and you should simply respect that. It's a problematic term for the reasons stated at the top of my previous post, and by justice & zoetrope.



Ok I've never heard of the words tranny and ****... My apologies for not knowing??

If someone calls himself/herself I'm a transsexual then he/she is admitting to it so I don't see why he/she would be hurt when others say that (in situations where someone literally asks is ____ a transsexual?)

It's like a French woman getting offended in Spain by Spanish people calling her Mary when her name is Marie but introduced herself as Mary in the first place... If you don't want to be called something then don't introduce yourself as one hence don't refer yourself as w/e you don't want people to describe you as.

- - - Post Merge - - -



lithiumlatte said:


> I think justice was trying to say that saying eg. 'I am *a* gay' is what sounds strange - like using it as a noun.



I am a lesbian.
I am a gay. 
Only reason people say I am gay instead of a gay and I am a lesbian instead of lesbian is because of flow in verbal speech. But it could be a hidden gender issue inside a sexuality issue. 

If saying I am a lesbian is ok but saying I am a gay is NOT ok then it's implying that it's ok to objectify women who are lesbians.


----------



## fup10k

Omg like why can't you just educate me about every little thing I'm too insensitive and ignorant to look up like really I'm trying to help YOU here and be understanding why won't you cater to me you're making me feel bad ;(


----------



## Tao

Aradai said:


> shemale isnt a gender, its a slur.



So is there a 'proper term'? I thought that was the 'proper term'. Are they just called 'transgender' even though they (usually) have boobs and a penis? Is it just the sexual organ that is taken into account with being transgender and the boobs don't matter?





zoetrope said:


> Also, I want to point out that transgenderism isn't a gender itself, but it's a condition in which someone's biological sex does not match up with their perceived gender.  Someone who was born with male genitals but identifies as female would be considered... female.  They may call themselves things like transwoman or even shemale or tranny (I don't know, are those terms that are being reclaimed?) but they should still be considered female.



Is it not partially the same thing? Like, genderfluid people are going to not match their biological sex with their perceived gender like 50% of the time, right? (obviously going on a 50/50 ratio there that likely isn't accurate)




Are transexual and transgender the same thing, or is transgender specifically talking about 'perceived gender'? Is transgender the same as 'man who identifies as a woman' but without a sex change?


----------



## Naiad

lunathenia said:


> Ok I've never heard of the words tranny and ****... My apologies for not knowing??
> 
> If someone calls himself/herself I'm a transsexual then he/she is admitting to it so I don't see why he/she would be hurt when others say that (in situations where someone literally asks is ____ a transsexual?)
> 
> It's like a French woman getting offended in Spain by Spanish people calling her Mary when her name is Marie but introduced herself as Mary in the first place... If you don't want to be called something then don't introduce yourself as one hence don't refer yourself as w/e you don't want people to describe you as.



But in this case they're making it their word
I can call myself a chink, which is alright, because I'm Chinese (Mixed, technically, but w/e). However, that doesn't give anyone else the right, especially those who are not Chinese, to call me a chink.

I think that's what they're trying to get at??


----------



## lithiumlatte

lunathenia said:


> Ok I've never heard of the words tranny and ****... My apologies for not knowing??
> 
> If someone calls himself/herself I'm a transsexual then he/she is admitting to it so I don't see why he/she would be hurt when others say that (in situations where someone literally asks is ____ a transsexual?)
> 
> It's like a French woman getting offended in Spain by Spanish people calling her Mary when her name is Marie but introduced herself as Mary in the first place... If you don't want to be called something then don't introduce yourself as one hence don't refer yourself as w/e you don't want people to describe you as.



It's okay, just know that they are examples of slurs. 
If your friends, _really and truly_ want _you_ to call them as such, and they've asked you to then fine. Emphasis on you, bc like I say it may be their attempts to reclaim the word just between each other and may not take too kindly to someone outside the community doing that.
But for the huge majority of the community, it would be considered offensive, and drawing attention to the surgery issue when it's not needed. So you should keep this in mind. x

EDIT: nico's post nailed it! thank you x


----------



## lunathenia

N i c o said:


> But in this case they're making it their word
> I can call myself a chink, which is alright, because I'm Chinese (Mixed, technically, but w/e). However, that doesn't give anyone else the right, especially those who are not Chinese, to call me a chink.
> 
> I think that's what they're trying to get at??



No, if you call yourself a chink or oriental but you get offended when other people call you that, that's stupid. Why? Because those words were invented by racist white ****s with the intent of mocking the race. Actually, it's worse that you'd even use the words when describing yourself.

- - - Post Merge - - -



lithiumlatte said:


> It's okay, just know that they are examples of slurs.
> If your friends, _really and truly_ want _you_ to call them as such, and they've asked you to then fine. Emphasis on you, bc like I say it may be their attempts to reclaim the word just between each other and may not take too kindly to someone outside the community doing that.
> But for the huge majority of the community, it would be considered offensive, and drawing attention to the surgery issue when it's not needed. So you should keep this in mind. x
> 
> EDIT: nico's post nailed it! thank you x



Nico's post did NOT nail it. If any South East Asian referred to themselves as a chink or Oriental I'd tell them to go look up the intent of the words when it was invented. 

Why on Earth would you call yourself terms that were coined to derail you by another race that was racist... Beats me.


----------



## Naiad

lunathenia said:


> No, if you call yourself a chink or oriental but you get offended when other people call you that, that's stupid. Why? Because those words were invented by racist white ****s with the intent of mocking the race. Actually, it's worse that you'd even use the words when describing yourself.



Alright, since that explanation obviously wasn't clear enough, here's this one.

Suppose that you're in your crew, where b**** has become an accepted word to call each other. In your group, the word has taken on an affectionate meaning, and there's no problem calling each other that.

Does that give you the right to walk up to strangers and call them b****? No. According to the rest of the world, it's still an insult.


----------



## Aryxia

lunathenia said:


> No, if you call yourself a chink or oriental but you get offended when other people call you that, that's stupid. Why? Because those words were invented by racist white ****s with the intent of mocking the race. Actually, it's worse that you'd even use the words when describing yourself.



What gives you the right to tell someone what they should and shouldn't call themselves? It can easily be seen as empowering, especially if you perceive it as "I'm going to take your slurs and make them my own. I'm gonna wear them as a badge of honour, because your skewed opinion isn't worth jack ****."

Anyway, we should probably drop this whole thing or move it somewhere else so this thread doesn't get locked.


----------



## lunathenia

Aryxia said:


> What gives you the right to tell someone what they should and shouldn't call themselves? It can easily be seen as empowering, especially if you perceive it as "I'm going to take your slurs and make them my own. I'm gonna wear them as a badge of honour, because your skewed opinion isn't worth jack ****."



Go ahead. If you're an Asian go ahead and call yourself an Oriental. I get that you don't understand some racist white ****s coined the term. Call youself a rug or w.e else if you want to.  But don't get offended when someone else calls you by that exact term.


----------



## lithiumlatte

lunathenia said:


> No, if you call yourself a chink or oriental but you get offended when other people call you that, that's stupid. Why? Because those words were invented by racist white ****s with the intent of mocking the race. Actually, it's worse that you'd even use the words when describing yourself.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> 
> 
> Nico's post did NOT nail it. If any South East Asian referred to themselves as a chink or Oriental I'd tell them to go look up the intent of the words when it was invented.
> 
> Why on Earth would you call yourself terms that were coined to derail you by another race that was racist... Beats me.



I was referring to how it was a good explanation of what reclaiming a word means, not specifically the word chink.
I do see your point of view that 1. yes it is racist if used by anyone else, and the origins absoultely should not be ignored. Personally I too wish that nobody had to use slurs against themselves!
But I suppose it could comparable to how members of the lgbtqa community may call _themselves_ fags, to try to take a word used against them, to hurt them and turn it into something else? Aryxia phrased this excellently!

Let's see if nico has any other thoughts?



lunathenia said:


> Go ahead. If you're an Asian go ahead and call yourself an Oriental. I get that you don't understand some racist white ****s coined the term. Call youself a rug or w.e else if you want to.  But don't get offended when someone else calls you by that exact term.



Okay look at this way, compare it to how black people have reclaimed the word 'nig*er', in the way that Aryxia explained. That does _not_ make it acceptable for a white person to say that, as it is racist and they _should absolutely_ be offended by it.


----------



## zoetrope

I know I said I was done posting in this thread but whatever.  Here goes.

This is what GLAAD says about using the word 'queer' in media or press:

"Traditionally a pejorative term, queer has been appropriated by some LGBT people to describe themselves. However, it is not universally accepted even within the LGBT community and should be avoided unless describing someone who self-identifies that way or in a direct quote. When Q is seen at the end of "LGBT," it typically means queer and/or questioning."

Basically, the word has been appropriated (or re appropriated) by some people in the gay community but, as they stated, some people are still offended by or uneasy with its use.  They don't flatout say 'don't use this' but they say it should be avoided unless it is a quote or if someone self identifies as queer.  This is the same way with your friends.  If they refer to themselves as transsexual (I.e. I am a transsexual) then that is ok.  But one should shy away from using that term in that way outside of that situation.  For example, don't walk up to a transgender person who you don't know and call them a transsexual.

Edit:  also, I think this has been a really good dialogue but this has become verrrry off topic.  So I'm done.  FOR REALZ.


----------



## lunathenia

Aryxia said:


> What gives you the right to tell someone what they should and shouldn't call themselves? It can easily be seen as empowering, especially if you perceive it as "I'm going to take your slurs and make them my own. I'm gonna wear them as a badge of honour, because your skewed opinion isn't worth jack ****."
> 
> Anyway, we should probably drop this whole thing or move it somewhere else so this thread doesn't get locked.



I didn't "tell" anyone that they have/don't have the right to call themselves. What I'm saying is if you're going around calling yourself some dumb ****ing term b/c you obviously don't know/understand/care about the true intent of the words then don't get ****ing offended when someone else calls you by that same term. Get it now?

- - - Post Merge - - -



Aryxia said:


> What gives you the right to tell someone what they should and shouldn't call themselves? It can easily be seen as empowering, especially if you perceive it as "I'm going to take your slurs and make them my own. I'm gonna wear them as a badge of honour, because your skewed opinion isn't worth jack ****."
> 
> Anyway, we should probably drop this whole thing or move it somewhere else so this thread doesn't get locked.



Also it's not your place to budge into a non heated discussion and call my opinion a jack **** when all the people here were just trying to understand each other's perspective and shed some light. Go **** yourself.

- - - Post Merge - - -



N i c o said:


> Alright, since that explanation obviously wasn't clear enough, here's this one.
> 
> Suppose that you're in your crew, where b**** has become an accepted word to call each other. In your group, the word has taken on an affectionate meaning, and there's no problem calling each other that.
> 
> Does that give you the right to walk up to strangers and call them b****? No. According to the rest of the world, it's still an insult.



Ok this case I understand. But if you call yourself a term that another race coined and call yourself that casually then don't get offended when someone else who hears yourself calling yourself that term calls you by that term....


----------



## Aryxia

lunathenia said:


> I didn't "tell" anyone that they have/don't have the right to call themselves. What I'm saying is if you're going around calling yourself some dumb ****ing term b/c you obviously don't know/understand/care about the true intent of the words then don't get ****ing offended when someone else calls you by that same term. Get it now?
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> 
> 
> Also it's not your place to budge into a non heated discussion and call my opinion a jack **** when all the people here were just trying to understand each other's perspective and shed some light. Go **** yourself.



I wasn't calling your opinion jack ****. I was calling the racist *******'s opinion ****. And the meaning and history can be where the empowerment can come through- Some people, not me, have said that by reclaiming their slurs, they have achieved a sense of "You put me through all this ****, and I've conquered it. What now?"


----------



## lunathenia

lithiumlatte said:


> I was referring to how it was a good explanation of what reclaiming a word means, not specifically the word chink.
> I do see your point of view that 1. yes it is racist if used by anyone else, and the origins absoultely should not be ignored. Personally I too wish that nobody had to use slurs against themselves!
> But I suppose it could comparable to how members of the lgbtqa community may call _themselves_ fags, to try to take a word used against them, to hurt them and turn it into something else? Aryxia phrased this excellently!
> 
> Let's see if nico has any other thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> Okay look at this way, compare it to how black people have reclaimed the word 'nig*er', in the way that Aryxia explained. That does _not_ make it acceptable for a white person to say that, as it is racist and they _should absolutely_ be offended by it.



I personally would never call someone a nig*er or a *** or anything else but if you call yourself that all the time then you're bound to be called by that by someone outside the "community." What I'm saying is since you're calling yourself that so often, don't get offended when someone outside the "community" calls you that (unless they say it with negativity behind it).


----------



## lithiumlatte

lunathenia said:


> I personally would never call someone a nig*er or a *** or anything else but if you call yourself that all the time then you're bound to be called by that by someone outside the "community." What I'm saying is since you're calling yourself that so often, don't get offended when someone outside the "community" calls you that (unless they say it with negativity behind it).


There's no need to airquote community. You're implying it's some made up thing by doing that...
That's the thing your missing, it is racist  when a white person says it, _whether or not_ the person they're saying it to calls their friends that. And that's the end of it. I'm sure you know the origins of the word, and about the oppression of black people so you must see why it's not okay. The bird fighting back against the cat, does not change the bird into a predator.



N i c o said:


> Alright, since that explanation obviously wasn't clear enough, here's this one.
> 
> Suppose that you're in your crew, where b**** has become an accepted word to call each other. In your group, the word has taken on an affectionate meaning, and there's no problem calling each other that.
> 
> Does that give you the right to walk up to strangers and call them b****? No. According to the rest of the world, it's still an insult.





Aryxia said:


> I wasn't calling your opinion jack ****. I was calling the racist *******'s opinion ****. And the meaning and history can be where the empowerment can come through- Some people, not me, have said that by reclaiming their slurs, they have achieved a sense of "You put me through all this ****, and I've conquered it. What now?"



This!  good explanations.
It's been great to have a respectful conversion, but I think zoetrope is right - we're delving too far into race right now, and it's off topic to the thread.


----------



## Aryxia

If you guys wanna keep discussing this, I'm making a new thread for it. I don't wanna see this one get closed. Edit: Never mind! I hope there's no hard feelings about this, after all, the lack of tone in internet conversations leads to misunderstandings all the time ^.^;;


----------



## lunathenia

Aryxia said:


> I wasn't calling your opinion jack ****. I was calling the racist *******'s opinion ****. And the meaning and history can be where the empowerment can come through- Some people, not me, have said that by reclaiming their slurs, they have achieved a sense of "You put me through all this ****, and I've conquered it. What now?"



Oh I missed the quotations. My bad. Ok that makes sense. I get what you're saying but again I personally wouldn't b/c I don't see it as empowerment but I do "get" why some people would. All personal preference.


----------



## Aryxia

lunathenia said:


> Oh I missed the quotations. My bad. Ok that makes sense. I get what you're saying but again I personally wouldn't b/c I don't see it as empowerment but I do "get" why some people would. All personal preference.



No worries ^.^ I don't really like it either since it can create an "Us vs. Them" mentality, but eh. It's more about the way you raise your kids than the words you use, right?


----------



## Naiad

lunathenia said:


> Ok this case I understand. But if you call yourself a term that another race coined and call yourself that casually then don't get offended when someone else who hears yourself calling yourself that term calls you by that term....



Ahh, but *man* coined that term to insult mainly *women*. If females call each other that word (In the Crew), it doesn't mean they're letting a man 'win' over them. They're just using it as an affectionate term, an insult  they've 'claimed' as their own.

Edit: when you get ninja'd :^)


----------



## lunathenia

Aryxia said:


> No worries ^.^ I don't really like it either since it can create an "Us vs. Them" mentality, but eh. It's more about the way you raise your kids than the words you use, right?



Welp, getting harder to control kids these days and I imagine even more so in the future (btw I'm still a "kid" as in not old enough to manage kids)

- - - Post Merge - - -



N i c o said:


> Ahh, but *man* coined that term to insult mainly *women*. If females call each other that word (In the Crew), it doesn't mean they're letting a man 'win' over them. They're just using it as an affectionate term, an insult  they've 'claimed' as their own.



I see why people would think that but I personally never would. I hate it when other girls/women call me a b**** or w.e else and anyone else. It probably has to do with the fact that I grew up in a strict-ish family. No matter who you are, if you call me a b**** my reaction is 1) blank faced 2) uhh no **** you my name is not a *****


----------



## Moddie

This went off topic quickly. I'm surprised a mod hasn't to tell us to tone it down. 
Anyway, while we're on slurs. I refer to myself as queer. Both when talking about my gender, and my sexuality. Generally I use the term genderqueer to refer to myself. (Here I use the term 'non-binary' as it's more excepted outside the transgender community.) And I use queer to describe my sexuality as most people don't know what asexuality is. In spaces were it's more acceptable I use queer in place of lgbta or the longer versions such as - LGBTQQIP2SAA, because the acronym is confusing, too long and I've never seen it be fully inclusive. 

It's normal for groups of people to take back words that were normally used against them, and it is empowering. In that when I hear that word now I no longer think of all the times it was used as an insult towards me, but rather the community itself and how I'm not alone within it.


----------



## RosieThePeppyCat

I'm a girl but everyone thinks I'm a boy because of my voice *facepalm*


----------



## Moddie

RosieThePeppyCat said:


> I'm a girl but everyone thinks I'm a boy because of my voice *facepalm*



Aww, that's a shame.


----------



## Kaiaa

Moddie said:


> This went off topic quickly. I'm surprised a mod hasn't to tell us to tone it down.



Most of us were asleep and no one reported the thread 

Do tone it down everyone. We don't mind civilized argument/debate. No need to exaggerate, make fun of, or put anyone down.


----------



## Cory

I am male but I don't know what most of the ones in the poll mean lol


----------



## M O L K O

I'm so glad I went to bed early last night ))))))))))))))

OT I actually decided to look up some of these identities and I think I get it. Still confused on why adrgonyous is considered a gender. Wouldn't that be someone elses view of you? Now how you identify yourself? Seriously not trying to start **** cuz I'm pretty sure Kaiaa would stab the next person to derail the thread. Someone could link me an article about it that'd be great, I'd tried looking it up myself and all I got were articles about andrej


----------



## Coach

I don't see how these some of these are labels? Male and Female aren't really treated as labels if you say:

"Ha! You're female!"

Plus I don't know what most of the other ones actually mean, so yeah.


----------



## Moddie

M O L K O said:


> I'm so glad I went to bed early last night ))))))))))))))
> 
> OT I actually decided to look up some of these identities and I think I get it. Still confused on why adrgonyous is considered a gender. Wouldn't that be someone elses view of you? Now how you identify yourself? Seriously not trying to start **** cuz I'm pretty sure Kaiaa would stab the next person to derail the thread. Someone could link me an article about it that'd be great, I'd tried looking it up myself and all I got were articles about andrej



Thanks for taking the time to look these up. 
You're right in a way, androgynous is not commonly used as a gender identity. Generally it's used to refer to someone who looks gender neutral. However a minority of people use the term to refer to their gender. 
It's hard to find good articles on this but I'll provide a few links. 
Androgyne - Basic definition. 
A longer definition with clear explanations 
An interesting thread on the topic discussing androgyne as an identity and expression.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Coach said:


> I don't see how these some of these are labels? Male and Female aren't really treated as labels if you say:
> 
> "Ha! You're female!"
> 
> Plus I don't know what most of the other ones actually mean, so yeah.



I'm not trying to be rude, but I honestly don't understand your point. Are you saying 'female' isn't a gender identity because it sounds dumb when said in the form of an insult?


----------



## DarkDesertFox

Male.


----------



## EmmaFrost

I've always identified myself as genderqueer/genderfluid.
It's whatever. Nobody has to understand it except me and my partner. I've known since I was about 12. And when I was 12, I connected to the Internet via dialup and Tumblr obviously did not exist. I feel like a lot of non-progressive people (and general *******s) use current Internet subculture and outlets like Tumblr to explain away youth angst, activism, and identity questions. It's dismissive and disgusting.


----------



## Aizu

I'm a girl, always been a girl ^ ^ 
I don't really know all the gender terms, but hey, so long as your a kind, polite person I'll respect you and your choices ^ - ^


----------



## sakurakiki

I'm female. ^-^


----------



## swimmergal98

i am a female


----------



## Coach

Moddie said:


> I'm not trying to be rude, but I honestly don't understand your point. Are you saying 'female' isn't a gender identity because it sounds dumb when said in the form of an insult?



Kinda. I'm saying that Male and Female aren't really labels, because they are the genders you are taught from a young age / actually born as. I don't see someone getting offended because they are called their actual gender


----------



## zoetrope

Coach said:


> Kinda. I'm saying that Male and Female aren't really labels, because they are the genders you are taught from a young age / actually born as. I don't see someone getting offended because they are called their actual gender



You're confusing gender and sex.  Your sex is identified by your genitals.  Anything you consider gendered (such as 'boys toys' or 'girls love pink') are social constructs.  That's where it gets confusing.  Some people feel that they don't fall into that 'one or the other' system but identify as something else.  The concept of gender really has little to do with genitals.


----------



## Espurr96

I am a MtF transgirl :3

Looks like this thread is getting angry


----------



## tae

transgender male here : )

/ FtM if you want specifics.


----------



## Temari

I'm a female c:~


----------



## Tao

Mango said:


> yeah, because there arent just 2 genders. shocking!!



Well, yes, it is pretty shocking considering I was brought up with the ideals that there's only 2 genders and that there are more than 2 genders is a modern ideal that still doesn't really exist outside of internet forums and other obscure groups.


I was asking questions and being curious, no need to be an arse about it. It might help if you actually answered the question.


I still don't understand how 'genderfluid' is a another gender, or if it is another gender. To me it doesn't seem like another gender since you would be either/or at any given time. I don't understand how either/or would be a 3rd gender.


----------



## tae

Tao said:


> Well, yes, it is pretty shocking considering I was brought up with the ideals that there's only 2 genders and that there are more than 2 genders is a modern ideal that still doesn't really exist outside of internet forums and other obscure groups.
> 
> 
> I was asking questions and being curious, no need to be an arse about it. It might help if you actually answered the question.
> 
> 
> I still don't understand how 'genderfluid' is a another gender, or if it is another gender. To me it doesn't seem like another gender since you would be either/or at any given time. I don't understand how either/or would be a 3rd gender.




genderfluid under the umbrella term of non-binary genders. : )
it's a useful term used to explain that some people are not just stuck between one or the other and often can identity as both at any given time.


----------



## EmmaFrost

Tao said:


> Well, yes, it is pretty shocking considering I was brought up with the ideals that there's only 2 genders and that there are more than 2 genders is a modern ideal that still doesn't really exist outside of internet forums and other obscure groups.


what

That simply isn't true. You haven't personally encountered someone in your obviously sheltered little world who doesn't fit neatly into "male" or "female", but it isn't an idea the ****ing internet created. To say such things is insulting and ignorant. I can see your privilege from here, bruh.


----------



## lithiumlatte

Illyana said:


> what
> 
> That simply isn't true. You haven't personally encountered someone in your obviously sheltered little world who doesn't fit neatly into "male" or "female", but it isn't an idea the ****ing internet created. To say such things is insulting and ignorant. I can see your privilege from here, bruh.



Nailed it illy!  Do they believe everything society 'bring you up on' is all there is? I wouldn't be surprised if they're the type who thinks that people of other sexualities + feminists are a modern phenomenon that never existed before either 
The internet forums and obscure groups are at it again...


----------



## EmmaFrost

lithiumlatte said:


> Nailed it illy!  Do they believe everything society 'bring you up on' is all there is? I wouldn't be surprised if they're the type who thinks that people of other sexualities + feminists are a modern phenomenon that never existed before either
> The internet forums and obscure groups are at it again...


Everything is the Tumblr generation's fault!!!111 Before Tumblr, people were straight, their genders weren't ambiguous, feminism died out after the 1960s, and race was never an issue!!!!111 Wahhhh the internet ruins everything!~


----------



## oath2order

The Internet groups and obscure groups HAVE brought it into the mainstream. People openly talking about their gender and sexuality is a relatively new thing you know


----------



## EmmaFrost

oath2order said:


> The Internet groups and obscure groups HAVE brought it into the mainstream. People openly talking about their gender and sexuality is a relatively new thing you know


I disagree. I think people have more outlets now, thanks to the internet, to discuss sexuality and gender without fear of real life judgment/consequences. But the study and understanding of gender and sexuality far, far predates the internet. So do things like progressive parenting.


----------



## Jamborenium

I'm agender
I always felt really uncomfortable with the fact I was born a female 
and I never really felt like much of male either, basically the thought of
knowing I had a gender made me uncomfortable in general. 

also I'm probably going to get attack for this but I find nounselves like bun/bunself and fae/faeself for example to be,I dunno kinda dumb and they make the trans community look like a joke, which is what the trans community doesn't want, they want people to take them seriously and people who use nounselves aren't helping with that and it just kinda irks me a bit, like I said I'm going to get flamed for this but eh,whatever.

also, it kinda irks me when someone gets all pissed when someone they just
met mis-gendered them, like wtf they just met you how are you they suppose to know
what pro-nouns you go by, like if someone meets you and you are sexually female they aren't going to know you prefer male pronouns if they just met you, don't yell at them and call them trans-phobic just because they didn't know. if they say sorry forgive them and explain to them, don't treat them like they are scum because of a mistake they made

I mean someone I just met isn't going to know I'm agender, hell some people
don't have the knowledge about genders, and it's our job to educate them on the subject
not to scare them away and make them feel like sh!t

however if that person continues to mis-gender you and acts like a total ass then
sure go ahead and call them scum because they are doing that sh!t on purpose, and are just
being plain rude​


----------



## Trundle

Nebu said:


> I'm agender
> I always felt really uncomfortable with the fact I was born a female
> and I never really felt like much of male either, basically the thought of
> knowing I had a gender made me uncomfortable in general.
> 
> also I'm probably going to get attack for this but I find nounselves like bun/bunself and fae/faeself for example to be,I dunno kinda dumb and they make the trans community look like a joke, which is what the trans community doesn't want, they want people to take them seriously and people who use nounselves aren't helping with that and it just kinda irks me a bit, like I said I'm going to get flamed for this but eh,whatever.
> 
> also, it kinda irks me when someone gets all pissed when someone they just
> met mis-gendered them, like wtf they just met you how are you they suppose to know
> what pro-nouns you go by, like if someone meets you and you are sexually female they aren't going to know you prefer male pronouns if they just met you, don't yell at them and call them trans-phobic just because they didn't know. if they say sorry forgive them and explain to them, don't treat them like they are scum because of a mistake they made
> 
> however if that person continues to mis-gender you and acts like a total ass then
> sure go ahead and call them scum because they are doing that **** on purpose, and are just
> being plain rude​



is a side affect of not having a gender the need to center all your posts


----------



## RisingStar

Just saying I'm female myself, but this poll makes me happy with all the different gender types. Kudos c:


----------



## Trundle

ps nebu everything you said is very good I just had to make a joke it's what i'm here for

- - - Post Merge - - -

I am personally a grasskin and I prefer "g" pronouns. To put it into a sentence, 
"Ayy g is pretty cool"

I honestly just feel like myself when I'm standing in a large field in a windstorm. I can't stand people walking all over me and I like having my feet deep rooted in the ground.

- - - Post Merge - - -



oath2order said:


> so you can be both bigender and genderfluid at the same time or one but not the other,r ight?



that, logically, makes them the exact same thing


----------



## Jamborenium

Trundle said:


> is a side affect of not having a gender the need to center all your posts


..sure why not :U​
- - - Post Merge - - -



Trundle said:


> ps nebu everything you said is very good I just had to make a joke it's what i'm here for



Lel Okee dokee, thanks


----------



## Trundle

to answer the thread I have a penis


----------



## infinikitten

...here we go again


----------



## Mango

Nebu said:


> I'm agender
> I always felt really uncomfortable with the fact I was born a female
> and I never really felt like much of male either, basically the thought of
> knowing I had a gender made me uncomfortable in general.
> 
> also I'm probably going to get attack for this but I find nounselves like bun/bunself and fae/faeself for example to be,I dunno kinda dumb and they make the trans community look like a joke, which is what the trans community doesn't want, they want people to take them seriously and people who use nounselves aren't helping with that and it just kinda irks me a bit, like I said I'm going to get flamed for this but eh,whatever.
> 
> also, it kinda irks me when someone gets all pissed when someone they just
> met mis-gendered them, like wtf they just met you how are you they suppose to know
> what pro-nouns you go by, like if someone meets you and you are sexually female they aren't going to know you prefer male pronouns if they just met you, don't yell at them and call them trans-phobic just because they didn't know. if they say sorry forgive them and explain to them, don't treat them like they are scum because of a mistake they made
> 
> I mean someone I just met isn't going to know I'm agender, hell some people
> don't have the knowledge about genders, and it's our job to educate them on the subject
> not to scare them away and make them feel like sh!t
> 
> however if that person continues to mis-gender you and acts like a total ass then
> sure go ahead and call them scum because they are doing that sh!t on purpose, and are just
> being plain rude​




best post here 




Trundle said:


> I am personally a grasskin and I prefer "g" pronouns. To put it into a sentence,
> "Ayy g is pretty cool"
> 
> I honestly just feel like myself when I'm standing in a large field in a windstorm. I can't stand people walking all over me and I like having my feet deep rooted in the ground.



OH MY GOD, TRUNDLE


----------



## oath2order

I love trundle


----------



## rariorana

Nebu said:


> also I'm probably going to get attack for this but I find nounselves like bun/bunself and fae/faeself for example to be,I dunno kinda dumb and they make the trans community look like a joke, which is what the trans community doesn't want, they want people to take them seriously and people who use nounselves aren't helping with that and it just kinda irks me a bit, like I said I'm going to get flamed for this but eh,whatever.​



YES I AGREE WITH THIS SO MUCH


----------



## fup10k

No one actually identifies as bun/bunself. 99% positive it's all trolls on tumblr trying to make otherkin look bad and people who use different pronouns look bad. 

I have a trans friend who likes to use fleur/she pronouns because it makes her happy (not because she identifies with a flower or anything, because she doesnt)

nice try tho


----------



## oath2order

Wow way to be exclusive and not all too accepting


----------



## Jamborenium

fup10k said:


> No one actually identifies as bun/bunself. 99% positive it's all trolls on tumblr trying to make otherkin look bad and people who use different pronouns look bad.



^some of them are trolls yes I agree, but you can't erase the fact there are legit people who use those pronouns you can't just assume they're all trolls. 

sorry I just hate the whole "oh they're all trolls" argument because it's not always trolls
and trust me it's really easy to tell the trolls from the people who are being legit.​


----------



## fup10k

Nebu said:


> ^some of them are trolls yes I agree, but you can't erase the fact there are legit people who use those pronouns you can't just assume they're all trolls.
> 
> sorry I just hate the whole "oh they're all trolls" argument because it's not always trolls
> and trust me it's really easy to tell the trolls from the people who are being legit.​



Tell you what
you find me 10 people who legitimately are not joking and are serious and i'll change my mind about that

What i'm saying though, is that in the few cases they are then yes it is wrong but it is not a widespread issue and it has a lot of false fire around it and overall, it's nothing even worth mentioning on a gender discussion.


----------



## unravel

Is this really necessary?


----------



## Jamborenium

no not really tbh there's no point in arguing really
sorry fup10k, I was being rude​


----------



## lithiumlatte

Trundle said:


> is a side affect of not having a gender the need to center all your posts





Trundle said:


> ps nebu everything you said is very good I just had to make a joke it's what i'm here for
> 
> I am personally a grasskin and I prefer "g" pronouns. To put it into a sentence,
> "Ayy g is pretty cool"
> 
> I honestly just feel like myself when I'm standing in a large field in a windstorm. I can't stand people walking all over me and I like having my feet deep rooted in the ground.



I'm so embarrassed for you. Making a cruel mockery about other people's identities as your form of entertainment must be truly sad. 



Trundle said:


> to answer the thread I have a penis



This means literally nothing. penis ≠ male.


----------



## Caius

The way I figure all this goes is I walk into a doctors office and mark down the nice little checkbox for Female because at the end of the day it's my organs that are going to determine what's up with my body, not anything else. Also I think I'd probably get slapped for identifying as some outrageous thing when trying to get medically treated.

Keepin it simple. I am me and that's okay. I identify as myself. My gender is female. My brain seems to jive well with it.


----------



## xanisha

I'm a female ^.^ That's what I was born as and that's all I will ever want to be <3


----------



## Brackets

ZR388 said:


> The way I figure all this goes is I walk into a doctors office and mark down the nice little checkbox for Female because at the end of the day it's my organs that are going to determine what's up with my body, not anything else. Also I think I'd probably get slapped for identifying as some outrageous thing when trying to get medically treated.



yeah I can't stress enough how important it is for doctors to know your biological sex


----------



## Jamborenium

^agreed
Doctors need to know your biological sex so you can get the proper care you need
it's annoying how some people say it's trans phobic BC

sorry people it's not it's for health reasons while males and females aren't really much different mentally they are physically.​


----------



## hanashi

im ?????? but cis-passing so *shrug*

but i agree that doctors need to know your biological sex bc otherwise its difficult to find out whats wrong


----------



## Caius

Nebu said:


> ^agreed
> Doctors need to know your biological sex so you can get the proper care you need
> it's annoying how some people say it's trans phobic BC
> 
> sorry people it's not it's for health reasons while males and females aren't really much different mentally they are physically.​



That's one of the reasons I don't really understand 'feeling' like another gender. How are we as human beings supposed to know what another gender feels like? I have days where I'll bro out with the guys, go shooting, play some golf, and other days where I'll slather on makeup, do my hair, and just want to wear a pretty dress. I'm pretty sure it's the human condition to just want to be social. I don't think it has anything to do with personally feeling like "I should be a woman" and probably more about conforming to societal standards for said gender.

An example. I'm not a very 'motherly' person. I reserve acting like a total clinger for my cat. That's about it. I'll get that maternal urge every now and then but it's rare. Meanwhile my fiance is much more of the maternal type. It's not 2 hours out of every 3 days, it's every day. He doesn't identify as someone who feels like they should be considered a female, he just knows he's very loving and nurturing. 

Like I said before, I think what's most important is your biological sex. You can feel like whatever you want. It shouldn't be a reason to cause depression or anything. That being said, I do know a few people who have/are going through the sex change process. A couple have come back and said it wasn't worth it, but others are happy. I'm just hoping that they realize the medical repercussions for doing it, and hope them the best on their journey. I couldn't imagine being  put through it. 

To each their own.


----------



## lithiumlatte

ZR388 said:


> That's one of the reasons I don't really understand 'feeling' like another gender. How are we as human beings supposed to know what another gender feels like? I have days where I'll bro out with the guys, go shooting, play some golf, and other days where I'll slather on makeup, do my hair, and just want to wear a pretty dress. I'm pretty sure it's the human condition to just want to be social. I don't think it has anything to do with personally feeling like "I should be a woman" and probably more about conforming to societal standards for said gender.



Spoken like a true cis person  Be grateful you haven't experienced dysphoria.


----------



## Caius

lithiumlatte said:


> Spoken like a true cis person  Be grateful you haven't experienced dysphoria.



I honestly can't tell if that's supposed to be an insult or what.


----------



## Moddie

ZR388 said:


> That's one of the reasons I don't really understand 'feeling' like another gender. How are we as human beings supposed to know what another gender feels like?



Transgender people don't feel like another gender, they are whatever gender they say they are. Some transgender people feel like they were born in the wrong body and seek surgery to correct this. 



ZR388 said:


> You can feel like whatever you want. It shouldn't be a reason to cause depression or anything.


Dysphoria is a very powerful feeling. Unless you've experienced it you can't even begin to imagine the pain. As someone who has broken down repetitively because my body doesn't line up with the way my brain says it should this is an incredibly ignorant thing to read. I get that it's hard to understand but please try to be more compassionate.


----------



## Jake

ZR388 said:


> That's one of the reasons I don't really understand 'feeling' like another gender. How are we as human beings supposed to know what another gender feels like? I have days where I'll bro out with the guys, go shooting, play some golf, and other days where I'll slather on makeup, do my hair, and just want to wear a pretty dress. I'm pretty sure it's the human condition to just want to be social. I don't think it has anything to do with personally feeling like "I should be a woman" and probably more about conforming to societal standards for said gender.
> 
> An example. I'm not a very 'motherly' person. I reserve acting like a total clinger for my cat. That's about it. I'll get that maternal urge every now and then but it's rare. Meanwhile my fiance is much more of the maternal type. It's not 2 hours out of every 3 days, it's every day. He doesn't identify as someone who feels like they should be considered a female, he just knows he's very loving and nurturing.
> 
> Like I said before, I think what's most important is your biological sex. You can feel like whatever you want. It shouldn't be a reason to cause depression or anything. That being said, I do know a few people who have/are going through the sex change process. A couple have come back and said it wasn't worth it, but others are happy. I'm just hoping that they realize the medical repercussions for doing it, and hope them the best on their journey. I couldn't imagine being  put through it.
> 
> To each their own.



wat
you're literally using stereotypes to show your point..
"my fiance has a maternal instinct but that doesnt make him a girl" "i play golf but that doesn't make me a man", just because you have traits that are stereotypical to one gender which is opposite to your own doesn't mean you should automatically "feel" like you're another gender wtf

legit wtf did i just read LOL

- - - Post Merge - - -



Moddie said:


> Transgendered people don't feel like another gender, they are whatever gender they say they are. Some transgendered people feel like they were born in the wrong body and seek surgery to correct this.


transgender**


----------



## Caius

Jake. said:


> wat
> you're literally using stereotypes to show your point..
> "my fiance has a maternal instinct but that doesnt make him a girl" "i play golf but that doesn't make me a man", just because you have traits that are stereotypical to one gender which is opposite to your own doesn't mean you should automatically "feel" like you're another gender wtf
> 
> legit wtf did i just read LOL
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> 
> transgender**



You missed the point. I said at the very top I don't get all the gender identity stuff and then I rolled on to say why. 

You could try and let me in on your perspective you know. 



Moddie said:


> Transgendered people don't feel like another gender, they are whatever gender they say they are. Some transgendered people feel like they were born in the wrong body and seek surgery to correct this.
> 
> 
> Dysphoria is a very powerful feeling. Unless you've experienced it you can't even begin to imagine the pain. As someone who has broken down repetitively because my body doesn't line up with the way my brain says it should this is an incredibly ignorant thing to read. I get that it's hard to understand but please try to be more compassionate.



To part 1: Alright makes enough sense I suppose. 

2: You didn't really explain _what_ Dysphoria is besides a kind of anxiety. I'm not trying to be 'ignorant'. I've never attacked you. I've never said anything that should make you 'mad' at me. None of this stuff just clicks with me is all. _I'm not a very compassionate person._

Also I think you took my "you can feel like whatever you want" post the wrong way.


----------



## Moddie

Jake. said:


> transgender**


Yeah, sorry. I guess I've been reading it used that way so much I'm unintentionally using it myself. I'm going to correct my post now. Thanks for pointing that out.

- - - Post Merge - - -



ZR388 said:


> You didn't really explain _what_ Dysphoria is besides a kind of anxiety. I'm not trying to be 'ignorant'. I've never attacked you. I've never said anything that should make you 'mad' at me. None of this stuff just clicks with me is all. _I'm not a very compassionate person._
> 
> Also I think you took my "you can feel like whatever you want" post the wrong way.



Gender dysphoria is a condition where a person experiences discomfort or distress because there is a mismatch between their biological sex and gender. It affects transgender people differently, it will be more extreme in some than in others. Some transgendered people will not experience dysphoria at all. However the majority of transgender people do experience dysphoria which is why most seek surgery and/or hormones.  

I never claimed you attacked me, and I'm not mad. I was just pointing out that your statement came across as ignorant.


----------



## Tao

Illyana said:


> what
> 
> That simply isn't true. You haven't personally encountered someone in your obviously sheltered little world who doesn't fit neatly into "male" or "female", but it isn't an idea the ****ing internet created. To say such things is insulting and ignorant. I can see your privilege from here, bruh.



I never said it's an idea the internet created. I said it's a modern ideal that you don't really see much of outside of the internet, probably because it's only a small group of people that actually know about and identify as all this stuff.

Is it something that *you* see on a daily basis outside of the internet? Maybe it is, but don't pretend that this is a worldwide thing where everybody should know at least one person that identifies as one of these 'modern genders' because most people don't even know that it's 'a thing'.

It doesn't mean that I live a sheltered life, it means that I grew up in a generation where male and female are the only genders. If not knowing about all these 'other genders' instantly means you live a sheltered life then we better include 99% of the Earths population as 'sheltered'.





Moddie said:


> Transgender people don't feel like another gender, they are whatever gender they say they are. Some transgender people feel like they were born in the wrong body and seek surgery to correct this.



Wouldn't transgender people feel like another gender before the operation though?






Jake. said:


> wat
> you're literally using stereotypes to show your point..
> "my fiance has a maternal instinct but that doesnt make him a girl" "i play golf but that doesn't make me a man", just because you have traits that are stereotypical to one gender which is opposite to your own doesn't mean you should automatically "feel" like you're another gender wtf
> 
> legit wtf did i just read LOL



Well if stereotypes don't make you a gender, what exactly does if it's not genitals? I'm male and I can only really contribute that gender to male stereotype things. What is 'feeling male' even supposed to mean?


----------



## Caius

Moddie said:


> Yeah, sorry. I guess I've been reading it used that way so much I'm unintentionally using it myself. I'm going to correct my post now. Thanks for pointing that out.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> 
> 
> Gender dysphoria is a condition where a person experiences discomfort or distress because there is a mismatch between their biological sex and gender. It affects transgender people differently, it will be more extreme in some than in others. Some transgendered people will not experience dysphoria at all. However the majority of transgender people do experience dysphoria which is why most seek surgery and/or hormones.
> 
> I never claimed you attacked me, and I'm not mad. I was just pointing out that your statement came across as ignorant.



It still sounds like anxiety to me. 

When I was maybe 12 or so I was frustrated that I was born a female. Had the same thought cross my mind when I turned 17. It's not a constant thought, but it's there. It's not that I'm _uncomfortable_ being me, I just feel like I'd have a much simpler time of things as another gender. I don't think I'll ever have a mental breakdown over it though. My mind's usually too busy on other stuff.

V
What the heck is truscum. I feel like words have been made up in the last year and I do not follow.


----------



## fup10k

Not all trans people experience dysphoria and it doesn't make them any less trans or any less worthy of your respect. 

Just saying.
It's starting to sound very truscum in here.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Tao said:


> Well if stereotypes don't make you a gender, what exactly does if it's not genitals? I'm male and I can only really contribute that gender to male stereotype things. What is 'feeling male' even supposed to mean?




Wait...
wait.
wait.
You really actually think genders are made up of stereotypes? 
seriously? 

My bf fits very few, if any, male stereotypes but that doesn't stop him from being male (and it has nothing to do with his penis) so I suggest you do a little soul searching.


I'd advise you read wikipedia's page on gender
it's not perfect but it's not our job to educate you and i think you'll get all of your questions answered here if you actually want to know 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender


----------



## Trundle

lithiumlatte said:


> I'm so embarrassed for you. Making a cruel mockery about other people's identities as your form of entertainment must be truly sad.
> 
> 
> 
> This means literally nothing. penis ≠ male.



I never said I was a male. What the heck? Why are you assuming? You're just like all the others. So disrespectful.


----------



## Plushieluver101

I'm a gay male who identifies as a girl, purely because of my very feminine traits and self, so yeah. I still use pronouns 'him', and such but I, personally class myself as a girl. No one has to call me a girl, but I do prefer to be called a boy, rather than guy or man because they're very masculine terms in my eyes and I'm too innocent for that? Hah  But, seriously, I hate being called a man or a guy. Just makes me feel masculine, when I'm so not


----------



## Trundle

Plushieluver101 said:


> I'm a gay male who identifies as a girl, purely because of my very feminine traits and self, so yeah. I still use pronouns 'him', and such but I, personally class myself as a girl. No one has to call me a girl, but I do prefer to be called a boy, rather than guy or man because they're very masculine terms in my eyes and I'm too innocent for that? Hah  But, seriously, I hate being called a man or a guy. Just makes me feel masculine, when I'm so not



Don't worry bro, I got you!


----------



## Tao

fup10k said:


> Wait...
> wait.
> wait.
> You really actually think genders are made up of stereotypes?
> seriously?
> 
> My bf fits very few, if any, male stereotypes but that doesn't stop him from being male (and it has nothing to do with his penis) so I suggest you do a little soul searching.
> 
> 
> I'd advise you read wikipedia's page on gender
> it's not perfect but it's not our job to educate you and i think you'll get all of your questions answered here if you actually want to know
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender




Wow, little hostile. Excuse me for asking a question. Guess I better go check my privilege.


I barely fit male stereotypes either, I just fit more male stereotypes than female. 


But that doesn't really answer the question. I 'identify' as male but what the hell is that even supposed to mean?


----------



## fup10k

Tao said:


> Wow, little hostile. Excuse me for asking a question. Guess I better go check my privilege.
> 
> 
> I barely fit male stereotypes either, I just fit more male stereotypes than female.
> 
> 
> But that doesn't really answer the question. I 'identify' as male but what the hell is that even supposed to mean?



Read the article.


----------



## Caius

Tao said:


> Wow, little hostile. Excuse me for asking a question. Guess I better go check my privilege.
> 
> 
> I barely fit male stereotypes either, I just fit more male stereotypes than female.
> 
> 
> But that doesn't really answer the question. I 'identify' as male but what the hell is that even supposed to mean?



I'm going to guess it's how you feel about yourself when you wake up in the morning. Like waking up and feeling 'feminine.' Which again, really has no... reasoning (not even sure that's the right word) in my mind. I just wake up and feel like me. I go through my day and feel like me with coffee, I go home I feel like me but exhausted.


----------



## Jamborenium

I can see this thread being closed soon.


----------



## Caius

Nebu said:


> I can see this thread being closed soon.



Nah I'm actually enjoying reading some of this stuff. It's pretty interesting. No fights are going on so it looks okay so far.


----------



## Jake

Tao said:


> Well if stereotypes don't make you a gender, what exactly does if it's not genitals? I'm male and I can only really contribute that gender to male stereotype things. What is 'feeling male' even supposed to mean?



what makes you whatever gender you are is how you identify. just because you do manly things doesnt mean you're male, or you should identify as male. i didnt say stereotypes made your gender but the whole post basically made it sound like "i should feel like a boy when i play golf and i should feel like a girl when i wear make up and look pretty, but i dont, i just feel like me"

i cant speak from experience what "feeling male/female" is supposed to "feel like" because i don't feel like i'm either, so its hard to explain. But its more or less what I'm most comfortable with. Most of the time i'm comfortable in mens clothing, but I also feel more comfortable in the female bathrooms.
Especially for trans men/women (at least, from what I have read myself), they feel like their genitalia are just extra "growths" of skin that aren't meant to be there, and all in all, the most important thing is for everyone to have a sense of identity. 

I can identify as female with female genitalia, but work out 24/7, drink beer, wear manly clothes, have short hair, fit all the male stereotypes etc, but I'd still be a woman above all that because that's how I identify, just as much as how i can identify as female but have a penis. One /many stereotypes doesn't automatically pin point one person as one gender or the other simply because they have this or those parts. what's the difference between having a penis and identifying as female and having a vagina with 1000 male stereotypes but still identifying as female? nothing, other than the fact society tells us that's how it is meant to be.. they're both stereotypes society tells us, that having a penis means you're a man, just like working out/drinking beer etc - there's no difference imo (that's not really what i wanted to say, it makes sense in my head but i can't turn it into words but i hope you get my point? i'm basically trying to say that having a penis doesn't make you a man any more than having excess body hair makes you a dog, youre still a person and can identify how you want regardless of what you do and don't have idk i probably lost like 50 people LOL)

Anyway, something that i found really interesting in this whole "Gender VS Sex" debate is I remember in school, learning about how this family had twins boys, circumcised them both, but ****ed one of them up, and basically destroyed his penis. so they decided to give him a sex change as a baby. his family never told him and raised him as a girl, and for all his life he felt like something was wrong, and in the end, killed himself, because he just didn't feel right and had no idea what was going on (and then i think his twin also ended up killing himself too or something but that's not really relevant to the point). That right there is a perfect example of how a penis/vagina doesn't automatically make you a boy or girl - he was biologically born a boy, and identified as male, but was "made" into a girl because of his parents, and that's not how he identified,he was just fortunate enough to be born with a penis and also identify as male, but obviously that got changed because of his parents. So just because he had a vagina doesn't mean he was, and should be a girl, because thats not how he was born, and not how he identified. so what's the difference between being assigned male at birth and transitioning into female because if anything this story really does prove that there is *something* that makes you feel like a male/female from birth, but i guess no one is really 100% sure what it is exactly.


----------



## Tao

fup10k said:


> Read the article.



Wikipedia isn't an article and to put it simply, I'm not reading an entire wiki 'article' where a lot of the information will be irrelevant to the question. It would be like me answering "what is a scale" with the wiki article to music.


But Wiki say "Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity."

So, gender 'is' stereotypes. Wiki said so.


----------



## Trundle

Jake. said:


> Anyway, something that i found really interesting in this whole "Gender VS Sex" debate is I remember in school, learning about how this family had twins boys, circumcised them both, but ****ed one of them up, and basically destroyed his penis. so they decided to give him a sex change as a baby. his family never told him and raised him as a girl, and for all his life he felt like something was wrong, and in the end, killed himself, because he just didn't feel right and had no idea what was going on (and then i think his twin also ended up killing himself too or something but that's not really relevant to the point). That right there is a perfect example of how a penis/vagina doesn't automatically make you a boy or girl - he was biologically born a boy, and identified as male, but was "made" into a girl because of his parents, and that's not how he identified,he was just fortunate enough to be born with a penis and also identify as male, but obviously that got changed because of his parents. So just because he had a vagina doesn't mean he was, and should be a girl, because thats not how he was born, and not how he identified. so what's the difference between being assigned male at birth and transitioning into female because if anything this story really does prove that there is *something* that makes you feel like a male/female from birth, but i guess no one is really 100% sure what it is exactly.



That's "The Boy With No Penis" if anyone wants to watch it. Easy to find to watch for free on documentary sites. 

The problem with that example in particular was that it can technically lend itself to the other side of the argument. He was born a male with a penis and identified as a male. If someone came over and chopped my schlong off today I'd still be a male. Also, it was easy for him to know something was wrong from the beginning because he didn't have any proper crotch organs, just a makeshift peehole. He killed himself after he found all of this out years and years later due to depression.


----------



## Caius

Jake. said:


> Word vomit



That's actually exactly the answer I was looking for. Makes sense.


----------



## fup10k

Tao said:


> Wikipedia isn't an article and to put it simply, I'm not reading an entire wiki 'article' where a lot of the information will be irrelevant to the question. It would be like me answering "what is a scale" with the wiki article to music.
> 
> 
> But Wiki say "Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity."
> 
> So, gender 'is' stereotypes. Wiki said so.



are you incapable of seeing the section titled gender identity or...? 

Why are you holding us responsible for educating you. if you want to know, look it up.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Trundle said:


> That's "The Boy With No Penis" if anyone wants to watch it. Easy to find to watch for free on documentary sites.
> 
> The problem with that example in particular was that it can technically lend itself to the other side of the argument. He was born a male with a penis and identified as a male. If someone came over and chopped my schlong off today I'd still be a male. Also, it was easy for him to know something was wrong from the beginning because he didn't have any proper crotch organs, just a makeshift peehole. He killed himself after he found all of this out years and years later due to depression.



I was thinking that would be an issue with that example as well. :/ I'm sure people would say "He still had a Y chromosome!" and stuff like that (Even though.... you can be biologically male without it lol) but you know.


----------



## Caius

fup10k said:


> are you incapable of seeing the section titled gender identity or...?
> 
> Why are you holding us responsible for educating you. if you want to know, look it up.



Chill man. Some people prefer to get first hand perspective for their information.


----------



## fup10k

ZR388 said:


> Chill man. Some people prefer to get first hand perspective for their information.



Except he's been rude and confrontational toward explanations given. I would be more than willing if the situations were different here


----------



## Trundle

fup10k said:


> are you incapable of seeing the section titled gender identity or...?
> 
> Why are you holding us responsible for educating you. if you want to know, look it up.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking that would be an issue with that example as well. :/ I'm sure people would say "He still had a Y chromosome!" and stuff like that (Even though.... you can be biologically male without it lol) but you know.



Nothing you just said makes sense.

RIP POOR ARGUING SKILLS


----------



## fup10k

Trundle said:


> Nothing you just said makes sense.
> 
> RIP POOR ARGUING SKILLS



Literally nothing i said there was an argument so maybe that's why you didn't understand  
RIP poor comprehension level.


----------



## Tap Dancer

fup10k said:


> I'd advise you read wikipedia's page on gender
> it's not perfect but it's not our job to educate you and i think you'll get all of your questions answered here if you actually want to know
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender



I rarely bother with Wikipedia because people change things all the time. I never know how accurate the information is.

It's sad that the tone of this thread went from nice to rude.  If you want people to understand something about you, you should try to educate them. No one is born knowing everything. People ask questions because they want to learn. However, when you give someone attitude, they'll usually walk away and their opinions won't change. If anything, they might think even _worse_ of a group of people based on the hostility they received. I know it can be frustrating when you're not understood, but if you're not willing to educate, things _won't_ change.


----------



## fup10k

Tap Dancer said:


> I rarely bother with Wikipedia because people change things all the time. I never know how accurate the information is.
> 
> It's sad that the tone of this thread went from nice to rude.  If you want people to understand something about you, you should try to educate them. No one is born knowing everything. People ask questions because they want to learn. However, when you give someone attitude, they'll usually walk away and their opinions won't change. If anything, they might think even _worse_ of a group of people based on the hostility they received. I know it can be frustrating when you're not understood, but if you're not willing to educate, things _won't_ change.



Like i said previously, if he wasn't rude and argumentative to the explanations given to him prior to me posting, I would be more than willing. 
But when multiple people explain what identity is and you're still like "but what is identity" I'm going to hand you what I've already proofread that explained in further detail. (Because I actually checked it before just handing it over; i'm not dumb, i know how wikipedia works)


The point is if you actually want to know about a groups experience you should probably do a little background information check before you ask basic questions.


----------



## Jake

Trundle said:


> That's "The Boy With No Penis" if anyone wants to watch it. Easy to find to watch for free on documentary sites.
> 
> The problem with that example in particular was that it can technically lend itself to the other side of the argument. He was born a male with a penis and identified as a male. *If someone came over and chopped my schlong off today I'd still be a male*. Also, it was easy for him to know something was wrong from the beginning because he didn't have any proper crotch organs, just a makeshift peehole. He killed himself after he found all of this out years and years later due to depression.



you've been raised as a boy all your life tho, of course if someone came and chopped it off you'd still identify as male because you were assigned male at birth and born with a body with male sex organs?? i don't see how that's a fair point sorry?

he was assigned male at birth and born into a male body, but was switched into a female body shortly after (which he did not identify as), which is totally different to "having your schlong chopped off" years into your life after you've (presumably) developed a sense of identity.

you were raised, and identified as male all your life, he was raised as female, but identified as male all his life (i've not actually watched the documentary i only remember waht my teacher told me 2 years ago so I could be missing out on some important parts which is making me not understand properly??). but i'm really not seeing any connection here other than you are saying if it happened to you at your age you'd still identify as male but your knowledge is nowhere near on par with that of a babies so??

what's the difference between having your penis chopped off and stll identifying as male and having a vagina and identifying as male? the only difference is that one was fortunate to be born into a body where both their sex and gender matched. if i identified as 100% male and got a sex change, just because i had a vagina wouldn't automatically make me a girl, i'd still feel like a man. just because i had a vagina doesn't make me a girl.


----------



## Tao

Jake. said:


> Stuff



Makes sense. 

I guess the way I'm viewing it is how we can all describe to an extent 'feeling sad' or 'feeling hungover' and how they're things that people can sort of agree on how they feel. Feeling like a gender sounds like "you just do".




Jake. said:


> learning about how this family had twins boys, circumcised them both, but ****ed one of them up, and basically destroyed his penis. so they decided to give him a sex change as a baby.




I'm curious to how you can screw up circumcision so change so badly that you need a sex change.




fup10k said:


> are you incapable of seeing the section titled gender identity or...?
> 
> Why are you holding us responsible for educating you. if you want to know, look it up.



No, I'm just 'incapable' of reading wiki articles as a genuine reply.






fup10k said:


> Except he's been rude and confrontational toward explanations given. I would be more than willing if the situations were different here




No, I'm asking questions to explanations given. Asking questions is how you learn things.

I'm only being an arse when somebody is an arse with me.


----------



## Caius

fup10k said:


> Like i said previously, if he wasn't rude and argumentative to the explanations given to him prior to me posting, I would be more than willing.
> But when multiple people explain what identity is and you're still like "but what is identity" I'm going to hand you what I've already proofread that explained in further detail. (Because I actually checked it before just handing it over; i'm not dumb, i know how wikipedia works)
> 
> 
> The point is if you actually want to know about a groups experience you should probably do a little background information check before you ask basic questions.



Jakes explanation summed everything up quite nicely without needing to go to wikipedia. The wikipedia page doesn't have personal insight because wikipedia doesn't allow biased opinion. Biased opinion is what I want to hear.



Tao said:


> I'm curious to how you can screw up circumcision so change so badly that you need a sex change.



I'ma go watch that movie to check out that exact question.


----------



## Jake

Tao said:


> Makes sense.
> 
> I guess the way I'm viewing it is how we can all describe to an extent 'feeling sad' or 'feeling hungover' and how they're things that people can sort of agree on how they feel. Feeling like a gender sounds like "you just do".



probably because sadness is an emotion and hungover is a physical feeling whereas gender is a more sense of identity type of feeling? idk that's just how i see it


----------



## Tao

ZR388 said:


> Jakes explanation summed everything up quite nicely without needing to go to wikipedia. The wikipedia page doesn't have personal insight because wikipedia doesn't allow biased opinion.* Biased opinion is what I want to hear.*



In other words, the entire reason forums exist.

If we all just went to wiki every time we wanted an answer, forums would be irrelevant.


----------



## Trundle

Jake. said:


> snip



You raise valid points, but all I was trying to do is state that the specific case study you mentioned is a bit unfit for an example. You can't definitively assume how gender works biologically, especially if it seems to be so different for every person. The inconsistencies in this thread about how gender even works are pretty confusing.


----------



## Tap Dancer

fup10k said:


> The point is if you actually want to know about a groups experience you should probably do a little background information check before you ask basic questions.



I can read articles all day long and still have the same questions. Maybe I'm just a slow learner, but sometimes a change in wording can make all the difference in the world. I guess I was wrong in thinking that people who don't feel like they fit in as male or female would be happy to answer questions. It would help with tolerance. But if you (meaning "you" in general, not you personally) would rather people remain ignorant, you're the one who will continue to suffer.


----------



## Trundle

ZR388 said:


> Jakes explanation summed everything up quite nicely without needing to go to wikipedia. The wikipedia page doesn't have personal insight because wikipedia doesn't allow biased opinion. Biased opinion is what I want to hear.
> 
> 
> 
> I'ma go watch that movie to check out that exact question.



If any of you don't want to watch it, they apparently "burned" his penis off. Everything that happened to him is extremely fishy. The man "Dr. Money" is a psychologist trying to prove his theory that any male or female can be raised as opposite without any conflict. His experiment failed miserably and there were records he molested the boys as well. He was ironically only in it for the money.


----------



## fup10k

ZR388 said:


> Jakes explanation summed everything up quite nicely without needing to go to wikipedia. The wikipedia page doesn't have personal insight because wikipedia doesn't allow biased opinion. Biased opinion is what I want to hear.



Jake's explanation was wonderful, HOWEVER you shouldn't just come in here expecting someone to go that in depth for you. It's a lot of work to type out a clear and comprehensive explanation in order to answer a really broad question such as "what is identity." That's something that is answered on tons of websites and you can easily find it by looking it up and attempting to understand it yourself, and then ask the biased, specific questions that you want to. (i.e. What does dysphoria feel like to you? How do I know if what i'm experiencing is dysphoria vs. anxiety? How do you know you identify as xxxx?)
This isn't gender 101 and no one should feel responsible for educating anyone and no one should feel entitled to an explanation.


----------



## Caius

fup10k said:


> Jake's explanation was wonderful, HOWEVER you shouldn't just come in here expecting someone to go that in depth for you. It's a lot of work to type out a clear and comprehensive explanation in order to answer a really broad question such as "what is identity." That's something that is answered on tons of websites and you can easily find it by looking it up and attempting to understand it yourself, and then ask the biased, specific questions that you want to. (i.e. What does dysphoria feel like to you? How do I know if what i'm experiencing is dysphoria vs. anxiety? How do you know you identify as xxxx?)
> This isn't gender 101 and no one should feel responsible for educating anyone and no one should feel entitled to an explanation.



I expect others to go through the same lengths I do for them. Many a time have I sat here for _hours_ to explain things. I'm sorry you feel that way, but an article written by someone who may or may not be legit is not going to sway my opinion. I work in a news station. I know how that stuff works. 

I feel like if you're really passionate about something then your goal should be to make others as excited about the topic as you are. I learned something today so I consider it a win-win.



Trundle said:


> If any of you don't want to watch it, they apparently "burned" his penis off. Everything that happened to him is extremely fishy. The man "Dr. Money" is a psychologist trying to prove his theory that any male or female can be raised as opposite without any conflict. His experiment failed miserably and there were records he molested the boys as well. He was ironically only in it for the money.


----------



## fup10k

ZR388 said:


> I expect others to go through the same lengths I do for them. Many a time have I sat here for _hours_ to explain things. I'm sorry you feel that way, but an article written by someone who may or may not be legit is not going to sway my opinion. I work in a news station. I know how that stuff works.
> 
> I feel like if you're really passionate about something then your goal should be to make others as excited about the topic as you are. I learned something today so I consider it a win-win.



Except people who write gender articles usually are transgender themselves. No one's writing them for the money lol. 
I know how you feel about it. I'm not out to say NO ONE SHOULD EDUCATE ANYONE EVER but it sounds a lot nicer when you say "So I tried looking it up and it's still not clear to me" and things along that nature rather than things along the lines of "Uh? What? There's other genders???? I'm a man because i have a penis"

To specify, I'd talk gender with you for hours on end because you're respectful and seem like you're actually here to learn something. Others, not so much.


----------



## Caius

fup10k said:


> Except people who write gender articles usually are transgender themselves. No one's writing them for the money lol.
> I know how you feel about it. I'm not out to say NO ONE SHOULD EDUCATE ANYONE EVER but it sounds a lot nicer when you say "So I tried looking it up and it's still not clear to me" and things along that nature rather than things along the lines of "Uh? What? There's other genders???? I'm a man because i have a penis"
> 
> To specify, I'd talk gender with you for hours on end because you're respectful and seem like you're actually here to learn something. Others, not so much.



I'm also at work and can't really search "TRANSGENDER ARTICLE" without the IT guy coming up and giving me _the stare._


----------



## Tap Dancer

fup10k said:


> This isn't gender 101 and no one should feel responsible for educating anyone and no one should feel entitled to an explanation.



And with that additional rude reply, I'm out. I grew up knowing male and female. Sexuality means you're either straight, gay, bi, or asexual. As far as I'm concerned, that's still all there is. People didn't need so many labels in the past. When I was younger, there was no, "You have to be PC. Let's not hurt anyone's feelings" crap. _Please_. There's always someone out there who wants to whine and be offended. I don't know why people have to announce their sexuality all over the place these days. I have never once on these boards told anyone if I'm straight or not, and that's because it's no one else's business. Be a male, female, in-between, straight or gay _person_. Whatever. You shouldn't need a label. You're a _person_.

Reply all you want, but know that I won't read it. I also won't read PMs because I'm sick of this subject. Besides, it's been made clear over and over that it's _not your job to educate_. Well, it's _not my job to care enough to learn_ about other people. I'm staying out of these threads from now on and just sticking to the lighter ones.


----------



## fup10k

ZR388 said:


> I'm also at work and can't really search "TRANSGENDER ARTICLE" without the IT guy coming up and giving me _the stare._



But you can be on an animal crossing website without getting it?  (Honestly i'd get the stare for both)
For when you are home and if you would like more information, GLAAD has some decent articles to look at and so does planned parenthood (There's a lot of support information there too like "What can i do to help" and "where can i go for help" etc.)


----------



## Trundle

fup10k said:


> Except people who write gender articles usually are transgender themselves. No one's writing them for the money lol.
> I know how you feel about it. I'm not out to say NO ONE SHOULD EDUCATE ANYONE EVER but it sounds a lot nicer when you say "So I tried looking it up and it's still not clear to me" and things along that nature rather than things along the lines of "Uh? What? There's other genders???? I'm a man because i have a penis"
> 
> To specify, I'd talk gender with you for hours on end because you're respectful and seem like you're actually here to learn something. Others, not so much.



They wouldn't post here asking you questions if they weren't here to learn something.


----------



## lithiumlatte

ZR388 said:


> 2: You didn't really explain _what_ Dysphoria is besides a kind of anxiety. I'm not trying to be 'ignorant'. I've never attacked you. I've never said anything that should make you 'mad' at me. None of this stuff just clicks with me is all. _I'm not a very compassionate person._
> 
> Also I think you took my "you can feel like whatever you want" post the wrong way.



EDIT: ninja'd >.<


----------



## Tao

fup10k said:


> To specify, I'd talk gender with you for hours on end because you're respectful and seem like you're actually here to learn something. Others, not so much.





If I wasn't prepared to learn something I wouldn't be here in the first place.


Lazily throwing around links and saying "check your privilege" aren't helpful.

Posting links as a reference to back up or go into more detail on a point you've made however, I'll read those.


----------



## fup10k

Tao said:


> If I wasn't prepared to learn something I wouldn't be here in the first place.
> 
> 
> Lazily throwing around links and saying "check your privilege" aren't helpful.
> 
> Posting links as a reference to back up or go into more detail on a point you've made however, I'll read those.



I never told you to check your privilege? Idk where you're getting that. 

If you're really out to learn something here, like i previously said: GLAAD has good resources on their website and so does planned parenthood. Wikipedia had a good gender identity section but I take it that's covered for you already.


----------



## oath2order

ZR388 said:


> What the heck is truscum. I feel like words have been made up in the last year and I do not follow.



According to urban dictionary



			
				Urban Dictionary said:
			
		

> Trans people, mostly on Tumblr, who believe you need body dysphoria to be transgender.






			
				SJWiki said:
			
		

> Truscum are trans people who delegitimize the gender of other trans people. They claim one can't truly be transgender unless one experiences gender dysphoria as defined by cisnormative psychiatry and medicine.


----------



## Caius

oath2order said:


> According to urban dictionary



I wish I had an image to use as my response to this.


----------



## Moddie

ZR388 said:


> I wish I had an image to use as my response to this.



I know Urban Dictionary generally isn't the best site to go for information but that definition of truscum is accurate.


----------



## oath2order

ZR388 said:


> I wish I had an image to use as my response to this.



Well considering my other source, UD seems more reliable


----------



## Caius

oath2order said:


> Well considering my other source, UD seems more reliable



Urban dictionary is actually a pretty great source all things considered. My response was more to the answer I received. This stuff is weird.


----------



## EmmaFrost

Tap Dancer said:


> And with that additional rude reply, I'm out. I grew up knowing male and female. Sexuality means you're either straight, gay, bi, or asexual. As far as I'm concerned, that's still all there is. People didn't need so many labels in the past. When I was younger, there was no, "You have to be PC. Let's not hurt anyone's feelings" crap. _Please_. There's always someone out there who wants to whine and be offended. I don't know why people have to announce their sexuality all over the place these days. I have never once on these boards told anyone if I'm straight or not, and that's because it's no one else's business. Be a male, female, in-between, straight or gay _person_. Whatever. You shouldn't need a label. You're a _person_.
> 
> Reply all you want, but know that I won't read it. I also won't read PMs because I'm sick of this subject. Besides, it's been made clear over and over that it's _not your job to educate_. Well, it's _not my job to care enough to learn_ about other people. I'm staying out of these threads from now on and just sticking to the lighter ones.



Your old age truly shows in your posts. Aaaaand you said "PC", which is synonymous with "intolerant". How dare people expect to be heard and respected!!! I'm glad you're finished with this subject because you offered nothing except secondhand embarrassment. Go rearrange your hybrids or something.


----------



## Brackets

Illyana said:


> Your old age truly shows in your posts. Aaaaand you said "PC", which is synonymous with "intolerant". How dare people expect to be heard and respected!!! I'm glad you're finished with this subject because you offered nothing except secondhand embarrassment. Go rearrange your hybrids or something.



it's a bit petty to say their 'old age'... Is it their fault that they grew up in a different generation where other genders were unheard of? at least they've been asking questions on here and trying to find out other people's views, instead of just being a bigot and refusing to ask about or accept new generation's views. And they havent said they've got anything against people with other genders.


----------



## EmmaFrost

Brackets said:


> it's a bit petty to say their 'old age'... Is it their fault that they grew up in a different generation where other genders were unheard of? at least they've been asking questions on here and trying to find out other people's views, instead of just being a bigot and refusing to ask about or accept new generation's views. And they havent said they've got anything against people with other genders.


What

She literally just said it's "not her job" to learn about other people.

It's a bit petty to say people "always want to whine and be offended" and to bring up political correctness.


----------



## Naiad

Tap Dancer said:


> * I grew up knowing male and female. Sexuality means you're either straight, gay, bi, or asexual. As far as I'm concerned, that's still all there is. *





Brackets said:


> it's a bit petty to say their 'old age'... Is it their fault that they grew up in a different generation where other genders were unheard of? at least they've been asking questions on here and trying to find out other people's views, instead of just being a bigot and refusing to ask about or accept new generation's views. *And they havent said they've got anything against people with other genders.*



Yep, because they don't believe people with other genders exist.


----------



## oath2order

ZR388 said:


> Urban dictionary is actually a pretty great source all things considered. My response was more to the answer I received. This stuff is weird.



Oh.

Well thats very true


----------



## ShinyYoshi

Illyana said:


> What
> 
> She literally just said it's "not her job" to learn about other people.
> 
> It's a bit petty to say people "always want to whine and be offended" and to bring up political correctness.



That's not even what she was saying. You're only reading bits and pieces. 
Whoever she was trying to have a convo with kept giving out rude replies and saying "it's not my job to educate you on the subject" and TapDancer responded saying that that kind of behavior makes people then think it's not "their job" to care about other people if they're only going to reply with rude comments. 

And Dancer also said there's always "*someone*" that wants to complain and whine. Not "all people" want to complain and whine. Quit twisting people's words just to start more flame wars.


----------



## EmmaFrost

ShinyYoshi said:


> That's not even what she was saying. You're only reading bits and pieces.
> Whoever she was trying to have a convo with kept giving out rude replies and saying "it's not my job to educate you on the subject" and TapDancer responded saying that that kind of behavior makes people then think it's not "their job" to care about other people if they're only going to reply with rude comments.
> 
> And Dancer also said there's always "*someone*" that wants to complain and whine. Not "all people" want to complain and whine. Quit twisting people's words just to start more flame wars.



Oh you're right because I left out this charming part right here. Nope, this isn't rude at all:
"I grew up knowing male and female. Sexuality means you're either straight, gay, bi, or asexual. As far as I'm concerned, that's still all there is."

That isn't twisting anything and it shows she has no business in this thread. Bye.


----------



## ShinyYoshi

Illyana said:


> Oh you're right because I left out this charming part right here. Nope, this isn't rude at all:
> "I grew up knowing male and female. Sexuality means you're either straight, gay, bi, or asexual. As far as I'm concerned, that's still all there is."
> 
> That isn't twisting anything and it shows she has no business in this thread. Bye.



Yeah, that part isn't nice, but she already said she won't be coming back, so what's the point in being rude to someone who can't even defend themselves? 

There's no reason to get so upset over someone else's opinion that won't even come back to say anything else. All it does is just cause more upset than there already is.


----------



## EmmaFrost

ShinyYoshi said:


> Yeah, that part isn't nice, but she already said she won't be coming back, so what's the point in being rude to someone who can't even defend themselves?
> 
> There's no reason to get so upset over someone else's opinion that won't even come back to say anything else. All it does is just cause more upset than there already is.


By the same token, there's no reason to defend someone else who has an *admittedly* (by you) not nice opinion when she won't be coming back.


----------



## ShinyYoshi

Illyana said:


> By the same token, there's no reason to defend someone else who has an *admittedly* (by you) not nice opinion when she won't be coming back.




I wasn't trying to defend her as much as I was trying to say that just taking someone's posts and twisting their words doesn't do anyone favors, _especially_ when that person won't even be posting anymore. 

I'm honestly not very educated on this subject, and I was using this thread to try and learn some things. But it's getting harder when people are just throwing insults instead of trying to help people understand what's going on.


----------



## Tao

Illyana said:


> By the same token, there's no reason to defend someone else who has an *admittedly* (by you) not nice opinion when she won't be coming back.



They weren't nice opinions but on the other hand (as somebody else who was trying to learn something new), I can see very much how they just thought "I don't even care anymore".

It's like people complain about people not educating themselves but get moody and defensive when people try to do so.


----------



## Fhyn_K

Just went through the entire thread and read great points from a good many angles. I hope that the tone of the conversation can direct in a more constructive direction because even with all that is being said, this so far is going pretty well.


----------



## Caius

ShinyYoshi said:


> I wasn't trying to defend her as much as I was trying to say that just taking someone's posts and twisting their words doesn't do anyone favors, _especially_ when that person won't even be posting anymore.
> 
> I'm honestly not very educated on this subject, and I was using this thread to try and learn some things. But it's getting harder when people are just throwing insults instead of trying to help people understand what's going on.



Save yourself some time and just find Jake's word-vomit post. It was pretty top notch.


----------



## infinikitten

The thing about this is that even when you're trying to learn, you can still definitely phrase questions in unintentionally gross ways. We all have to be mindful of our wording. If somebody who's new to all this "more than two genders" business comes into the thread and says, like whoever said it earlier, that every other identity is "made up on the internet" or blames Tumblr for it or whatever ridiculous nonsense, asking a question afterward... I mean, it won't be taken as being asked in good faith. Everyone will already have their hackles up and assume you're being hurtful on purpose.

I know a lot of people don't view anger as productive or an acceptable response to things, but think about it. Please just stop and think about it - people who've had their very _being_ invalidated over and over again are, once again, being insulted and feeling attacked in this thread (though this one is MILES ahead of the other one and I still applaud each and every one of you who's trying to keep it quality! thank you ♥) so it makes sense for them not to feel like they have to answer with perfect manners and kindness. Anger is a valid response to some of the things that have been said both in this thread and elsewhere. Is it productive? Maybe not for others, but marginalized people still need to get their feelings out. Keep in mind that when you feel hurt by their anger, you're feeling just a fraction of what they're feeling pretty much constantly due to the general public's stance on anyone who's not strictly binary and cisgender.

I have a hard time expressing my own anger, but if somebody were to, say, interrupt me over and over again while we were having an IRL discusssion, I know they're not meaning to be rude but it's still a rude thing. Am I making sense? (Probably not. Sorry.) Or if I was dancing with someone and they kept stepping on my toes, they could only say sorry so many times before I'd call it quits; it's an accident, but it still causes pain.

Emotions will flare up during these kinds of discussions... it happens... I just think those who aren't up to speed on everything could exercise a little more patience. I know I would really appreciate it myself, even if I only duck my head in here every couple days, you know? ♥

Anyway, I'll stop rambling, haha. Back to your regularly scheduled programming~


----------



## Lazybones

nevermind please forget I ever said anything


----------



## Moddie

Lazybones said:


> asexual female here! c:



I'm asexual too, but I don't see how that's relevant to this thread.


----------



## Alienfish

Female, despite many people being surprised and thinking I'm male or whatever. Might be because I'm pretty much a tomboy and not girly at all.


----------



## Jamborenium

Moddie said:


> I'm asexual too, but I don't see how that's relevant to this thread.



they could have gotten asexual mixed up with agender​


----------



## Moddie

Nebu said:


> they could have gotten asexual mixed up with agender​



Yeah, probably.


----------



## DarkFox7

Female. c:


----------



## oath2order

Or maybe she just wanted to say her sexuality


----------



## Moddie

oath2order said:


> Or maybe she just wanted to say her sexuality



Maybe, but that's a strange thing to say out of the blue on a thread about gender.


----------



## inkling

im a girl. Though I have felt like a boy many times in my life. Also, I am interested in the similarities between males and females. I am also into the androgynous look. But I am a girl and I love it! I would never want a penis.

edit: I know I read the other posts and apparently genitalia has nothing to do with gender identity. But still, I would not want that thing! This is also why yes, I felt like a boy a lot of days. Especially when I was little. These feelings are complicated, but in the end I am most comfortable with identifying as female. It might be my age? I don't know. I know I would definitely feel extremely wrong and uncomfortable identifying as anything else. Also, I feel like words can never represent us fully. Things are more like in the air. And stuff.


----------



## oath2order

No its really not


----------



## Lazybones

oh, I said it to mean that I have no preference of any specific gender
but it's my sexuality too so
um
sorry to look like an idiot and embarrass myself...?
I guess??


----------



## inkling

uh ya i guess sexuality is tied to _usually associated with_ gender? hm...


----------



## Boosh

Female.


----------



## Lazybones

*flees*


----------



## Loriii

Male.


----------



## Moddie

Lazybones said:


> oh, I said it to mean that I have no preference of any specific gender
> but it's my sexuality too so
> um
> sorry to look like an idiot and embarrass myself...?
> I guess??



I'm sorry I wasn't trying to be rude or anything. I was just confused as to why you brought it up. ^^;
But I do just want to say that I'm ace and when it comes to relationships and all, I personally have a feminine preference.


----------



## Lazybones

Moddie said:


> I'm sorry I wasn't trying to be rude or anything. I was just confused as to why you brought it up. ^^;
> But I do just want to say that I'm ace and when it comes to relationships and all, I personally have a feminine preference.



oh okay, I thought that I like offended you or something.
Oops. o.o


----------



## Moddie

Lazybones said:


> oh okay, I thought that I like offended you or something.
> Oops. o.o



Nope not at all, I'm sorry that my response came across that way.


----------



## Lazybones

Moddie said:


> Nope not at all, I'm sorry that my response came across that way.


Well, it's alright! :] sorry that I got kind of snappy


----------



## oswaldies

Male, but gay if that matters~


----------



## Leela

I'm female biologically and by gender.

If we're talking about sexuality too, I identify as asexual (although I guess I'm still maturing, so that's not set in stone). I have a masculine preference romantically.


----------



## Lazybones

Leela said:


> I'm female biologically and by gender.
> 
> If we're talking about sexuality too, I identify as asexual (although I guess I'm still maturing, so that's not set in stone). I have a masculine preference romantically.



Pretty much my exact same situation.


----------



## inkling

sailoreamon said:


> Male, but gay if that matters~



I think we just established no, it doesn't matter. but you obviously want to talk about it...?

- - - Post Merge - - -



Lazybones said:


> Pretty much my exact same situation.



deleted bc not necessary anymore and i dont want everything i say to be on the internet anymore and ya whatever


----------



## fup10k

inkling said:


> I think we just established no, it doesn't matter. but you obviously want to talk about it...?
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> 
> 
> when my bf and i watched that asexual documentary i was being a bit rude about it, and he got all defensive which kinda proved my point. Like basically, it resonated with bc he has a low sex drive. But I know for a fact he is not asexual, lol. And not bc he's had sex with me, just bc I just know. For example I have a higher sex drive and I could tell when he's not into and thats a huge turn off, but theres been times when he's into it!
> 
> Basically ya. Im feeling sharey. I go so long without wanting, also I'm on meds which lessened my sex drive and I feel is a gift from god! I don't know why people complain about that. It think its like, society, or something! ;P



You're can be asexual and have a sex drive.. You just have no sexual attraction. (meaning you do not find people sexy  because you do not have a sexuality per-say) 

There are plenty of sex repulsed and also sex neutral asexuals.theyre both asexual. If they experience sexual attraction, however,  they may be demi or grey ace.

And to clarify,  you can still enjoy sex as an asexual.


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## inkling

hmmm, i am very confused. Like i understand everything you're saying, but i am very confused on this subject. yet enlightened at the same time. Should I just google what an asexual is lol? I'm afraid I might become more confused and also fall down a hole I do not care to slip into.


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## oath2order

inkling said:


> hmmm, i am very confused. Like i understand everything you're saying, but i am very confused on this subject. yet enlightened at the same time. Should I just google what an asexual is lol? I'm afraid I might become more confused and also fall down a hole I do not care to slip into.



The basic thing you should know is that asexuals do not feel sexual attraction, but can have a sex drive.


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## fup10k

http://asexualadvice.tumblr.com/
this has some FAQ's and some more broad questions that are answered pretty simply. I'm sure you can answer any question you have by looking there.


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## inkling

oath2order said:


> The basic thing you should know is that asexuals do not feel sexual attraction, but can have a sex drive.



oh thank you. but to clarify they don't feel attracted to a person physically? Yet they need to release their natural thingy that gets built up but its not a conscious thing?(like sex dreams)


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## fup10k

inkling said:


> oh thank you. but to clarify they don't feel attracted to a person physically? Yet they need to release their natural thingy that gets built up but its not a conscious thing?(like sex dreams)



???? that depends on the person. Sexuality has nothing to do with your libido and libidos are different for everyone. 
For instance, since we're getting personal: 
I consider myself grey-ace for the fact that I do want to have sex with my partner for emotional reasons, and because sex is enjoyable to me. 
However, I am repulsed by sex outside of emotional attachment (i.e. i do not masturbate, i do not like sexual advances from anyone other than my current boyfriend, i am repulsed by pornographic material) and I have never thought anyone was "hot" or "Sexy" or anything outside of basic aesthetic attraction. 

Despite having sex i am still asexual because i lack sexual attraction. Think of it this way: You can be gay and not want to have much sex, because you are sexually attracted to the same gender only. You can be straight because you are sexually attracted to the opposite gender. You can be pan because you are attracted to all genders. You are asexual if you do NOT have sexual attraction to anyone. 
In all of those, you can have as much or as little sex as you need or want to, but you are your sexuality based on your own sexual attraction and nothing more.


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## inkling

fup10k said:


> http://asexualadvice.tumblr.com/
> this has some FAQ's and some more broad questions that are answered pretty simply. I'm sure you can answer any question you have by looking there.



link is broken


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## inkling

fup10k said:


> ???? that depends on the person. Sexuality has nothing to do with your libido and libidos are different for everyone.
> For instance, since we're getting personal:
> I consider myself grey-ace for the fact that I do want to have sex with my partner for emotional reasons, and because sex is enjoyable to me.
> However, I am repulsed by sex outside of emotional attachment (i.e. i do not masturbate, i do not like sexual advances from anyone other than my current boyfriend, i am repulsed by pornographic material) and I have never thought anyone was "hot" or "Sexy" or anything outside of basic aesthetic attraction.
> 
> Despite having sex i am still asexual because i lack sexual attraction. Think of it this way: You can be gay and not want to have much sex, because you are sexually attracted to the same gender only. You can be straight because you are sexually attracted to the opposite gender. You can be pan because you are attracted to all genders. You are asexual if you do NOT have sexual attraction to anyone.
> In all of those, you can have as much or as little sex as you need or want to, but you are your sexuality based on your own sexual attraction and nothing more.



ya it makes sense I basically said that. But thanks for going in depth and clarifying bc it really helped.

Basically if this helps you great, if it doesn't whatever. This thing isn't going to help everybody.

To get even more personal: for me sex is like food. I'm either repulsed by it or turned on by it. I either can't stomach it or want it bc I need it. I mean I know some people are addicted to food or eat for fun/pleasure even if they're not hungry. But.... I don't. I eat bc my body is like "you're hungry, eat!" and if I'm super hungry elementry school cafeteria food looks delicious!. If I'm kinda hungry, have an appetite, but not starving, I need to like have something attractive and delicious.

- - - Post Merge - - -

And if my mind is consumed with some sort of inspiration/special project/work, well I totally forget to eat altogether! It doesn't even cross my mind ;p


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## Lock

Welp. Gunna take this opportunity to say I'm a girl. 

My username prolly makes people think otherwise. Lolz


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## Ashtot

Lockfancy said:


> Welp. Gunna take this opportunity to say I'm a girl.
> 
> My username prolly makes people think otherwise. Lolz



u seemed like a girl to me


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## inkling

Lockfancy said:


> Welp. Gunna take this opportunity to say I'm a girl.
> 
> My username prolly makes people think otherwise. Lolz



ur avatar tho..


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## Lock

Ashtot said:


> u seemed like a girl to me



Lolz if I had a penny for every time I've been referred to as a dude on this forum... I'd prolly have a dollar.

- - - Post Merge - - -



inkling said:


> ur avatar tho..


Yeah I think my past avatars didn't help my cause for a while lol


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## inkling

Lockfancy said:


> Lolz if I had a penny for every time I've been referred to as a dude on this forum... I'd prolly have a dollar.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> 
> Yeah I think my past avatars didn't help my cause for a while lol



maybe cos ur sig is awesome and girls aren't allowed to be awesome

- - - Post Merge - - -

also im a guy btw. I just pretend to be a girl so its easier to make friend online bc i dont have any friend irl


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## Lock

I just read what was behind my post...seeing that I stumbled upon this thread with innocent intent. 

I: gosh golly gee


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## fup10k

inkling said:


> link is broken



Are you sure? I can click it on my phone too


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## inkling

fup10k said:


> Are you sure? I can click it on my phone too



for some reason it wasn't working last night for me. Its working now. I'll look at the posts. Thanks


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