# Let's talk about Germany's New Year's Eve



## Reindeer (Jan 7, 2016)

I'm surprised there hasn't been a thread about this yet, even though it's bringing up a lot of controversy.


In the German city of Cologne, there's a big New Year's Eve celebration each year, as in any major city. It's a time to have fun and reflect on the past year, and hope the next one will bring good fortune. You know how it is.

Last week, a large group of men (estimates say about 1000) were in Cologne. They would isolate women, rob them, and often also molest them. Over 100 women have made claims to the police, of which at least 75% include molesting, and 2 escalated to actual rape. All victims describe the men as being of "North African" or "Arabic" descent.

It's easy to see how this can be tied to the current refugee crisis, but the most damning evidence is that several men have already been detained, and of the ones made known, all have refugee status, arriving in Germany within the last two years. A police report has also been leaked by two separate German publications, in which it's made clear that Syrian refugees were also among them, of which some arrived in the last few weeks.


It's obvious that this was organized. A group of men that large doesn't just randomly decide to rob, molest, and in some cases, rape women. And let's be clear - the victims were _only_ women.
The attacks also took place in some other German cities, with Hamburg being cited the most.

Sadly, German police is understaffed, and thus detaining such a large group is going to be hard. The mayor of Cologne has also (controversially) stated that during the carnival festivities of next month, women should be more alert, and have a specific code of conduct. It's also been confirmed that the police presence will be increased.


So, what are your immediate reactions? What do you think they should do to prevent more of these gang crimes by refugees?

And please, keep it civil.


Some sources: 1 2 3 4


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## himeki (Jan 7, 2016)

tbh this is really bad i mean
they were given refuge in a country far from where stuff like that happens
and then theyre like violating the trust given to them???


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## MozzarellaSticks (Jan 7, 2016)

The massive media coverup is more scary,  in my opinion.  People had to fight to even get the story out there. I highly suspect German politicians will attempt to sweep this under the rug. It's going to make them look bad no matter what stance they take.


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## Munna (Jan 7, 2016)

I think you are brave for posting this.

You report what happened in it's raw form, and still there will be people that will want to silent you. Don't listen.

Just keep telling the truth, ugly as it is. We can't fix any problem by pretending it is not there.

It's hard & sad, but it's what some people do. They completely disrespect kindness, and some people will come into your house, ask for a glass of water, take it & hit you with the cup.

That's why I play AC, because my mind gets twisted by people who blatantly disrespect kindness shown to them. It's great escapism for me as I am surrounded by many negative people who are truly not good people.


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## Reindeer (Jan 7, 2016)

hariolari said:


> The massive media coverup is more scary,  in my opinion.  People had to fight to even get the story out there. I highly suspect German politicians will attempt to sweep this under the rug. It's going to make them look bad no matter what stance they take.


German media is working hard to get their hands on these reports, but in other countries the reporting on this case is more than lacking. ZDF apologized that it took them so long to get the information while it seems non-German channels and publications don't give a damn.

It's obvious why officials want to keep it under wraps, because this situation, along with the November Paris attacks, legitimizes the fears brought up ever since the refugee crisis started up. This is the kind of thing that warrants transparency towards the populace.



Munna said:


> You report what happened in it's raw form, and still there will be people that will want to silent you. Don't listen.
> 
> Just keep telling the truth, ugly as it is. We can't fix any problem by pretending it is not there.


This is also why I give sources, to show I'm not pulling information out of my ass. I just want the truth, and I want the truth to be known. Whatever people do with it beyond that is up to them.


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## epona (Jan 7, 2016)

it's gonna make angela merkel look really bad and she's gonna come under huge fire for taking in so many refugees because people are going to be like 'look, these are the consequences' and it's just going to feed the fears of people who are already worried about their own societies and make the refugee crisis so much more complicated and uncomfortable than it is already

and that makes me sad because 1) not all refugees are to blame, so many of them are just looking for peace and safety and 2) i have huge respect for angela merkel and i don't want her to have to take the hits for the cowardly and disgraceful actions of a group of men


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## Munna (Jan 7, 2016)

epona said:


> it's gonna make angela merkel look really bad and she's gonna come under huge fire for taking in so many refugees because people are going to be like 'look, these are the consequences' and it's just going to feed the fears of people who are already worried about their own societies and make the refugee crisis so much more complicated and uncomfortable than it is already
> 
> and that makes me sad because 1) not all refugees are to blame, so many of them are just looking for peace and safety and 2) i have huge respect for angela merkel and i don't want her to have to take the hits for the cowardly and disgraceful actions of a group of men



Yeah exactly.  People like this (who disrespect & attack the very society that gave them kindness, trust & a home) are not only hurting the society they attack, but their own people.

The more people attack the society that feeds them, deface, litter, bash, & generally act disgraceful--they bring down the reputation of whatever group they are representing with their bad behavior=future people travelling from where they came from will not be trusted because they have broken that trust.

It's not fair to the society, environment & the people left struggling in their home country, because thanks to people like this, it would be very hard to trust again and "open the gates" 
Really selfish, and everybody loses.

That's why I do my best to be respectful & on my best behavior when travelling, to give thanks & love to the place giving me joy on my holiday.
If I ever immigrated somewhere I'd be so grateful to my new home. It's just how I was taught to show appreciation. That way you will be loved and welcomed.
Sadly people who attack women don't have this kind of reasoning. They want to hurt others, and then still scream for their own rights 

I need something happy now.


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## Knopekin (Jan 7, 2016)

I agree exactly with what epona said. It's really difficult because obviously the crimes are terrible and should be reported, but it's a dangerous situation because there's so much anti-immigrant feeling already, it could cause a lot of harm to people who had nothing to do with this. 

In fact, it's possible that it was orchestrated with the express purpose of generating anti-immigrant feeling. This is pure conjecture, but if you want to recruit people to your cause, creating an Us v. Them environment is the best way to do it.


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## nintendofan85 (Jan 7, 2016)

Oh boy, this is going to be bad for all the refugees...


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## KarlaKGB (Jan 7, 2016)

nintendofan85 said:


> Oh boy, this is going to be bad for all the refugees...



i question ur outlook on life when faced with wat happened in germany, ur concern is how bad it makes refugees look, and not for the victims of sexual assault and rape


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## Reindeer (Jan 7, 2016)

epona said:


> it's gonna make angela merkel look really bad and she's gonna come under huge fire for taking in so many refugees because people are going to be like 'look, these are the consequences' and it's just going to feed the fears of people who are already worried about their own societies and make the refugee crisis so much more complicated and uncomfortable than it is already
> 
> and that makes me sad because 1) not all refugees are to blame, so many of them are just looking for peace and safety and 2) i have huge respect for angela merkel and i don't want her to have to take the hits for the cowardly and disgraceful actions of a group of men


Merkel and Reker have been under fire already due to this situation. Merkel because of her open gates policy, and Reker because of the victim blaming in the aftermath. I just wonder how much higher the Volkszorn can go before it explodes, because Germans have been pretty pissed.

As for not all refugees being to blame, I agree. Germany took in over a million refugees last year, so when you're talking about a group of 1000 men (again, estimated), you're talking about just .1% of the refugees.
I think the question in most people's minds is how this could happen, why police didn't stop it, and so on. And I think there will be voices heard of wanting harsher immigration rules. The entire group would get "punished", but it's just trying to prevent a repeat of what happened here.



Knopekin said:


> In fact, it's possible that it was orchestrated with the express purpose of generating anti-immigrant feeling. This is pure conjecture, but if you want to recruit people to your cause, creating an Us v. Them environment is the best way to do it.


While it's conjecture, I have a feeling you're not too far off the mark. But I hope people can keep their cool and not try to hurt the refugees. The men that did this should be brought to justice, and hopefully be deported with an EU-wide ban to make an example out of them. People that aren't involved should be left alone.


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## nintendofan85 (Jan 7, 2016)

KarlaKGB said:


> i question ur outlook on life when faced with wat happened in germany, ur concern is how bad it makes refugees look, and not for the victims of sexual assault and rape



I feel extremely sorry for the victims as well. But not all refugees are these kind of people.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Jan 7, 2016)

It's going to look very bad for refugees. This is exactly what the opposition was worried would happen. Now, they have proof it does, and will, happen. The problem is intergrating cultures, and demolishing this stigma against womanhood.

Sadly, what these men have done is not unique. There was Lara Logan in Egypt during the uprising, and the waterpark in Vietnam.

These events happen because women are so devalued. It's violence against women. These men have been raised and taught that women exist for men, and not as their own person. Women "westernize," and therefore they lose their "purity." In order to see change, we have to change how these men view women.


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## Knopekin (Jan 7, 2016)

hariolari said:


> It's going to look very bad for refugees. This is exactly what the opposition was worried would happen. Now, they have proof it does, and will, happen. The problem is intergrating cultures, and demolishing this stigma against womanhood.
> 
> Sadly, what these men have done is not unique. There was Lara Logan in Egypt during the uprising, and the waterpark in Vietnam.
> 
> These events happen because women are so devalued. It's violence against women. These men have been raised and taught that women exist for men, and not as their own person. Women "westernize," and therefore they lose their "purity." In order to see change, we have to change how these men view women.



But then why are so few of 'these men' perpetrating these crimes? What happened was terrible, but it was an isolated, organized incident - there are so, so many people that haven't demonstrated that they believe 'women exist for men'.

I agree that it is a terrible problem, and I'm not offering any solutions, but most of these people are coming from the same societies, and obviously most of them are capable of not sexually assaulting every Western women they come across.


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## KarlaKGB (Jan 7, 2016)

Knopekin said:


> But then why are so few of 'these men' perpetrating these crimes? What happened was terrible, but it was an isolated, organized incident - there are so, so many people that haven't demonstrated that they believe 'women exist for men'.
> 
> I agree that it is a terrible problem, and I'm not offering any solutions, but most of these people are coming from the same societies, and obviously most of them are capable of not sexually assaulting every Western women they come across.



this wasnt exactly an isolated incident. it happened all over germany, and is already happening in sweden


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## Reindeer (Jan 7, 2016)

hariolari said:


> These events happen because women are so devalued. It's violence against women. These men have been raised and taught that women exist for men, and not as their own person. Women "westernize," and therefore they lose their "purity." In order to see change, we have to change how these men view women.


As more information is released, it's becoming clear that the majority of the assailants were Syrian refugees. While Syria is Islamic, the values it operated on weren't that far off from the West. Women had freedom of movement, could vote and be elected for government, it was not mandatory to wear hijabs, they had a say in domestic court cases. There were some things that were still messed up, but Syria is (or at least was) one of the most Westernized Islamic countries.

That means that the large majority of these people were not ignorant about women's rights in the West, because they are largely the same rights given to women in the country they came from. This was a deliberate and malicious course of action.

- - - Post Merge - - -



KarlaKGB said:


> this wasnt exactly an isolated incident. it happened all over germany, and is already happening in sweden


Sweden is an interesting case study on what happens when you devalue the native population and instead protect the ones killing your country. That's also why I hope Germany cracks down on these buffoons.


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## Cory (Jan 7, 2016)

I believe that strong police force = strong country. So I think the mayor of Cologne is stepping in the right direction. The thing that worries me is that people are going to see this event and think that all men/immigrants are monsters. Instead of realizing it was due to a lack of security which is created by police, and fortunately it sounds like they are fixing that problem.


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## KarlaKGB (Jan 7, 2016)

Cory said:


> I believe that strong police force = strong country. So I think the mayor of Cologne is stepping in the right direction. The thing that worries me is that people are going to see this event and think that all men/immigrants are monsters. Instead of realizing it was due to a lack of security which is created by police, and fortunately it sounds like they are fixing that problem.



implying that this sort of thing doesnt happen in other countries only because theres an excessive police presence??? come on, dont bury ur head in the sand


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## Cory (Jan 7, 2016)

KarlaKGB said:


> implying that this sort of thing doesnt happen in other countries only because theres an excessive police presence??? come on, dont bury ur head in the sand



I know this happens in other countries.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Jan 7, 2016)

Knopekin said:


> But then why are so few of 'these men' perpetrating these crimes? What happened was terrible, but it was an isolated, organized incident - there are so, so many people that haven't demonstrated that they believe 'women exist for men'.
> 
> I agree that it is a terrible problem, and I'm not offering any solutions, but most of these people are coming from the same societies, and obviously most of them are capable of not sexually assaulting every Western women they come across.


Isolated, yet I linked to similar incidents in other parts of the world.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Reindeer said:


> As more information is released, it's becoming clear that the majority of the assailants were Syrian refugees. While Syria is Islamic, the values it operated on weren't that far off from the West. Women had freedom of movement, could vote and be elected for government, it was not mandatory to wear hijabs, they had a say in domestic court cases. There were some things that were still messed up, but Syria is (or at least was) one of the most Westernized Islamic countries.
> 
> That means that the large majority of these people were not ignorant about women's rights in the West, because they are largely the same rights given to women in the country they came from. This was a deliberate and malicious course of action.
> 
> ...


I live beside the largest Muslim population outside the Middle East. I know very well it's not a religious thing. It's a cultural thing. These men ARE aware of how Western women are. They see them as "loose" and "immoral" women. They aren't "pure" like that specific group's women. They create rigid rules for women, and then blame the women if anything happens. 

There is no doubt this was an attack on women. It's an attack against Western ideaology as a whole as well, but it is also still an attack on women.


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## KarlaKGB (Jan 7, 2016)

austria: http://www.thelocal.at/20160107/salzburg-women-also-report-nye-sexual-assaults

switzerland: http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/zuerich/story/28608074

finland: http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inter...sex-harassment-in-helsinki-at-new-year-police


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## oath2order (Jan 7, 2016)

hariolari said:


> I live beside the largest Muslim population outside the Middle East. I know very well it's not a religious thing. It's a cultural thing. These men ARE aware of how Western women are. They see them as "loose" and "immoral" women. They aren't "pure" like that specific group's women. They create rigid rules for women, and then blame the women if anything happens.
> 
> There is no doubt this was an attack on women. It's an attack against Western ideaology as a whole as well, but it is also still an attack on women.



AYYYY MICHIGAN REPRESENT


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## pillow bunny (Jan 7, 2016)

Cory said:


> Instead of realizing it was due to a lack of security which is created by police, and fortunately it sounds like they are fixing that problem.



yeah totally, all crimes are the police's fault for not stopping them
and even if they did have a stronger police force it's not like the government could teleport enough police to arrest 1000 people
how can anyone deny that this was caused because of refugees? if they weren't let into the country this would not have happened and that is a fact. even if you support refugees you can't deny that.


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## oath2order (Jan 7, 2016)

pillow bunny said:


> yeah totally, all crimes are the police's fault for not stopping them
> and even if they did have a stronger police force it's not like the government could teleport enough police to arrest 1000 people
> how can anyone deny that this was caused because of refugees? if they weren't let into the country this would not have happened and that is a fact. even if you support refugees you can't deny that.



I'm not denying or accepting anything until they have an investigation


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## pillow bunny (Jan 7, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> As for not all refugees being to blame, I agree. Germany took in over a million refugees last year, so when you're talking about a group of 1000 men (again, estimated), you're talking about just .1% of the refugees.
> I think the question in most people's minds is how this could happen, why police didn't stop it, and so on. And I think there will be voices heard of wanting harsher immigration rules. The entire group would get "punished", but it's just trying to prevent a repeat of what happened here.
> 
> 
> While it's conjecture, I have a feeling you're not too far off the mark. But I hope people can keep their cool and not try to hurt the refugees. The men that did this should be brought to justice, and hopefully be deported with an EU-wide ban to make an example out of them. People that aren't involved should be left alone.



0.1% of a population joining together and commiting a crime at the same time isn't significant? really?
(and it's aprox double that or 0.2% counting only make refugees but whatever)
that's 10 (or 20) per 100,000 on ONE DAY, which is higher than some country's sexual assault rate for an entire year

- - - Post Merge - - -



oath2order said:


> I'm not denying or accepting anything until they have an investigation



100+ women reported crimes committed by people who appeared to be syrian
I think it's safe to assume that they were probably syrian


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## Reindeer (Jan 7, 2016)

pillow bunny said:


> 0.1% of a population joining together and commiting a crime at the same time isn't significant? really?
> (and it's aprox double that or 0.2% counting only make refugees but whatever)
> that's 10 (or 20) per 100,000 on ONE DAY, which is higher than some country's sexual assault rate for an entire year


I never said it was insignificant. I said it was not representative of all refugees.



Merkel has stated that all refugees not abiding by German law risk deportation. From the statement it seems she's talking about all crimes, not just what happened on New Year's Eve, though the current focus is on the assailants involved in these attacks. (Source)
To which I say: good. If they treat your hospitality like this, show them they're not welcome any longer. They threaten the safety of your own population, and possibly the other refugees as well, so it's best to get rid of them entirely. But I hope they do make sure that they're not just going to end up in another European country.


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## radical6 (Jan 7, 2016)

I'm very sympathetic to refugees, but this was horrifying. There are reports this was a planned attack by some gang. Either way, they need to slow down and look through the refugees.

Also..why are so many of them men? Where are the women and children refugees? The majority of refugees seem to be young men. 

This is just leading to increasing views of nationalism in Europe, and that's exactly what some of these "refugees" want. I have no doubt some of them are trying to start **** for ISIS in order to fuel more Muslims into leaving Europe. They want those muslims to turn to their side. 

It's very sad, at least. Even if you accepted only women and children, some of them will sadly have been indoctrinated by ISIS and will plan some sort of attack.


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## Reindeer (Jan 8, 2016)

justice said:


> I'm very sympathetic to refugees, but this was horrifying. There are reports this was a planned attack by some gang. Either way, they need to slow down and look through the refugees.


German officials have been searching for signs on social media since NYE. Seeing as it happened in various European cities, that's the safest bet. It was organized, they just need to find out how.



justice said:


> Also..why are so many of them men? Where are the women and children refugees? The majority of refugees seem to be young men.


That's what the women and children have been asking themselves.

Sometimes women and/or children are taken along, but in a lot of cases, they are also abandoned during the journey. These cases are largely kept out of the news though.



justice said:


> This is just leading to increasing views of nationalism in Europe, and that's exactly what some of these "refugees" want. I have no doubt some of them are trying to start **** for ISIS in order to fuel more Muslims into leaving Europe. They want those muslims to turn to their side.


That's ISIS' ultimate goal, but I sincerely doubt they'll get any gratification. European countries give refuge to those in need, something the neighboring Muslim countries refuse to do altogether. Many refugees also understand this, and are on their best behavior, even when the nationals get out of hand. Maybe a small amount would go and join ISIS, but the majority would stay, even support the country they ended up in.

As for the increasing nationalism... it's also due to the Euroscepticism that has been growing for the past few years. The refugee crisis has only highlighted the problems countries can face under the EU, and they feel that the voice of the people isn't heard, making it an undemocratic arrangement in their view.


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## radical6 (Jan 8, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> German officials have been searching for signs on social media since NYE. Seeing as it happened in various European cities, that's the safest bet. It was organized, they just need to find out how.
> 
> 
> That's what the women and children have been asking themselves.
> ...



Mmm, Jordan has accepted MANY refugees. There are a few Muslim countries accepting them, but they're at their max. Nearly 1/4th of their populations are refugees I think according to some sources I read. You just never hear about them since people want Europe to accept them, since well.. The muslim countries that are accepting are running out of room. 

I am personally a bit frightened by the rising antisemitism in Europe was well - from Muslims and growing neo nazis alike. The nationalism scares me as well, but I hope it does not escalate to violence. The refugee problem is definitely contributing to normal day people turning into nationalists. 

I've always been used to nazi comments from trolls from Stormfront, but nowadays anywhere I go has some nationalist posting **** or whatever. Anti facist groups have been tracking these movements and they're only gaining momentum. 

I feel bad for everyone stuck in the middle of this - aka the ones who aren't radical (nazi or terrorist). Everyone is yelling at the politicians but I do not blame them for their choices. It's the morally right thing to do to help refugees, but the question is how do you also combat terrorism at the same time? Some of them are already being "educated" but who knows if it will even work.


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## Reindeer (Jan 8, 2016)

justice said:


> Mmm, Jordan has accepted MANY refugees. There are a few Muslim countries accepting them, but they're at their max. Nearly 1/4th of their populations are refugees I think according to some sources I read. You just never hear about them since people want Europe to accept them, since well.. The muslim countries that are accepting are running out of room.


I just realized I made it sound like none of the countries were taking refugees. I meant to say that the countries that are capable of taking in many refuse to do so. Saudi Arabia hasn't taken in any refugees, nor has Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, and a bunch of other countries. Yet last year we had to listen to Saudi Arabia ***** at Europe about "muh human rights" in Hungary, something that's infringed upon daily in SA, and is infringed upon by not taking in refugees.


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## radical6 (Jan 8, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> I just realized I made it sound like none of the countries were taking refugees. I meant to say that the countries that are capable of taking in many refuse to do so. Saudi Arabia hasn't taken in any refugees, nor has Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, and a bunch of other countries. Yet last year we had to listen to Saudi Arabia ***** at Europe about "muh human rights" in Hungary, something that's infringed upon daily in SA, and is infringed upon by not taking in refugees.



Considering Saudi Arabia is pretty much indirectly supporting ISIS, maybe it's a good thing they don't have a group of refugees. I know they do pay for support, but do not take them in like Russia. Saudi Arabia is a pretty awful country that I hope will collapse after the oil runs out. It's dangerously corrupt and the laws regarding human rights there is awful. Literally awful. 

I agree that the countries that do have room should be accepting their fellow muslims. I guess they don't really care though, but I would think it would be easier for refugees to adjust in countries that have a more similar culture to them than like.. Germany. 

Germany is in a bad place right now. Germany is very cautious about it's image and human rights considering their uh, reputation from WW2. I feel like Germany is trying to redeem themselves from the crimes they committed during the war. Sadly, all they are doing is pissing off more of Europe again. 

I haven't been 100% up to date regarding the refugee crisis, so I was surprised to hear Germany accept so many refugees. I remember watching a video a while ago where Merkel tells a young refugee girl that Germany has no room to accept refugees. I guess perhaps that's still true... they're definitely not accepting as many children as they should be. The girl was crying on camera now that I think about it, but this was a while ago.

I really wish they accepted women and children over the men... I would feel it's less likely for them to turn out to be rapists/killers. That and you know... life seems much harder as a refugee as a woman/child than a man. Considering rape and all. 

Of course men can still get raped, but in times like these it's most often usually the women and children who are the weakest and need the most protection.


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## KarlaKGB (Jan 8, 2016)

would recommend this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc

caution - some distressing language used


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## Knopekin (Jan 8, 2016)

justice said:


> Also..why are so many of them men? Where are the women and children refugees? The majority of refugees seem to be young men.



As I understand it, ISIS conscripts all men in the country to fight for them, so if you don't want to actively support ISIS, you have to leave.

I agree with everything everyone's saying about the awfulness of Saudi Arabia. It's so hypocritical for the US and Europe to keep dealing with them, even when they know of the flagrant human rights abuses that happen every day.

In 2002, a fire in a girl's school in Mecca killed fifteen young girls, because the religious police wouldn't allow them out of the burning building because they weren't wearing the correct Islamic dress. In the same year, The West Wing (which would usually fictionalise events it wanted to use), took the Saudi Arabia case head-on, and this speech is as relevant then as it is today:


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## Munna (Jan 8, 2016)

On the Saudi Arabia note, I watched a documentary about female Indian workers being abused over there... and saying how horrible the conditions were...
that says a lot as women are battling in India for women's right's as the last statistics were that 1 in 7 (reported) women are raped (estimated say the number is a lot higher), and equal rights is still a hot topic over there, with lots of women's rights movements coming out & protests happening.
It's a country that has been through so much, and many of the population suffer poverty & homelessness (my heart goes out to those people,hope they get the help & love they need), yet they said that Saudi Arabia was a horrible place to go...

This just breaks my heart, and just feel women everywhere are really the losers here. But really it says a lot when someone escaping poverty says the conditions are "horrific" 
that's just cruel.

The thing is simple but hard at the same time, humans just need to be more loving & respectful.


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## Reindeer (Jan 8, 2016)

justice said:


> Considering Saudi Arabia is pretty much indirectly supporting ISIS, maybe it's a good thing they don't have a group of refugees. I know they do pay for support, but do not take them in like Russia. Saudi Arabia is a pretty awful country that I hope will collapse after the oil runs out. It's dangerously corrupt and the laws regarding human rights there is awful. Literally awful.


I agree, Saudi Arabia is doing a lot for ISIS' power, even if it's unintentional. However, both Russia and the US have provided evidence that Turkey is directly funding ISIS by buying oil from them. Even with that being the case, Turkey has been one of the major players in this refugee crisis, and they have been a target of terrorist attacks from ISIS as well. They could have prevented a large deal of what's going on in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Lebanon, and various other Middle Eastern and North African countries.

The problem is the oil though. If the biggest countries on this planet would just vow to stop using oil and make a big push towards alternative resources, one of the biggest reasons to interfere in Middle Eastern affairs disappears. ISIS would lose its biggest income as a result as well.



justice said:


> Germany is in a bad place right now. Germany is very cautious about it's image and human rights considering their uh, reputation from WW2. I feel like Germany is trying to redeem themselves from the crimes they committed during the war. Sadly, all they are doing is pissing off more of Europe again.
> 
> I haven't been 100% up to date regarding the refugee crisis, so I was surprised to hear Germany accept so many refugees. I remember watching a video a while ago where Merkel tells a young refugee girl that Germany has no room to accept refugees. I guess perhaps that's still true... they're definitely not accepting as many children as they should be. The girl was crying on camera now that I think about it, but this was a while ago.


Germany does have room, and Merkel did open the gates for them. However, she also told the people that sought refuge in her country to "adjust to the German ways of life and assimilate as soon as possible" (paraphrased from memory). And I agree with that.

I'm not sure if it's them trying to redeem themselves, because Germany worked hard in the decades following, and had awful things happen to them during that time (including a mass rape by the Soviets). If people truly expect Germany to pay reparations for WWII for this long, then I hope to hear those same people yelling to the Turks for reparations soon. The Ottoman Empire was no joke, and the Turkish people perpetrated their own Holocaust before the Germans did.



justice said:


> I really wish they accepted women and children over the men... I would feel it's less likely for them to turn out to be rapists/killers. That and you know... life seems much harder as a refugee as a woman/child than a man. Considering rape and all.
> 
> Of course men can still get raped, but in times like these it's most often usually the women and children who are the weakest and need the most protection.


It's not the countries' fault, it's the men abandoning their women and children on their own accord. Women and children do come here, but for the ones that don't, it's a choice made by their husbands and fathers, whether that choice was made back in the country of origin or en route to their destination. If women and children arrive at the border and they have the right to pass, they aren't barred from entering. There's a refugee camp in the French Grande-Synthe, where a lot of these abandoned women and children now reside. It's been in the news a lot recently due to the bad conditions there.


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## KaydeeKrunk (Jan 8, 2016)

This is horrible, as if just random men who decide to do this aren't bad enough, now we've got groups conducting it? This is why I carry things to protect myself no matter where I am, if a man assaults me he's not getting away without some sort of physical mark that the police will be able to identify. Too many things that came from trusting men have already happened to me... I really hope they detain the group and get rid of them, because that is just awful. And honestly I don't think it really has anything to do with them being refugees, it's them being money and sex hungry men who want to take control of something. And I agree that it's going to get turned into that it's because they are refugees but really I don't think it's related, and it's just going to be more fuel for people who hate on refugees.


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## Munna (Jan 8, 2016)

I know a lot about these statistics, and there is a difference though between what is reported & officially reported to police. Some countries carry a HUGE stigma against women who experience attacks like this, so women don't always report things officially. That makes it pretty scary when people like Amnesty International carry out their own investigations into countries where the recorded rape is 1 in 7, but in reality the unofficial count is 1 in 4 off the record.
It's very hard to get accurate statistics, but the thing is this is very common in places where people are powerless & poverty stricken in general, I thought it was bad enough the starvation rates in those places like Ethiopia, but they also have one of the highest RECORDED (maybe much more that's not recorded) rates of rape in a country.

The statistics do however reflect cultural values & societal treatment & views of women in a society, religion or culture. 

Just wish i was a super-hero to save them all, because if you couldn't tell this is an important (yet disturbing) issue to me, that I want to see changed in my lifetime.


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## radical6 (Jan 8, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> I agree, Saudi Arabia is doing a lot for ISIS' power, even if it's unintentional. However, both Russia and the US have provided evidence that Turkey is directly funding ISIS by buying oil from them. Even with that being the case, Turkey has been one of the major players in this refugee crisis, and they have been a target of terrorist attacks from ISIS as well. They could have prevented a large deal of what's going on in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Lebanon, and various other Middle Eastern and North African countries.
> 
> The problem is the oil though. If the biggest countries on this planet would just vow to stop using oil and make a big push towards alternative resources, one of the biggest reasons to interfere in Middle Eastern affairs disappears. ISIS would lose its biggest income as a result as well.



I really think they need to turn to alternative energy sources anyway - but no one really gives a **** about the environment anymore. I mean, I see studies every few weeks and so saying [popular city here] will be under water by like, 2040. Pretty sure Miami and New Orleans are beyond saving, even if the world does manage to curb its oil use. It's already too late to save some places, apparently. 




Reindeer said:


> Germany does have room, and Merkel did open the gates for them. However, she also told the people that sought refuge in her country to "adjust to the German ways of life and assimilate as soon as possible" (paraphrased from memory). And I agree with that.


I think the video I was watching might have been when the crisis first started, I would have to dig deep to find it though



Reindeer said:


> I'm not sure if it's them trying to redeem themselves, because Germany worked hard in the decades following, and had awful things happen to them during that time (including a mass rape by the Soviets). If people truly expect Germany to pay reparations for WWII for this long, then I hope to hear those same people yelling to the Turks for reparations soon. The Ottoman Empire was no joke, and the Turkish people perpetrated their own Holocaust before the Germans did.


I don't think people are like, implying Germany should pay back for what it did. I feel like it's more self guilt Germany as a whole has. They're overextending themselves right now in this crisis I think. I understand their fears of pinning guilt on the refugees because they don't want to seem like they're targeting anyone again. They want to save a lot of people, but are hurting themselves in the process. 




Reindeer said:


> It's not the countries' fault, it's the men abandoning their women and children on their own accord. Women and children do come here, but for the ones that don't, it's a choice made by their husbands and fathers, whether that choice was made back in the country of origin or en route to their destination. If women and children arrive at the border and they have the right to pass, they aren't barred from entering. There's a refugee camp in the French Grande-Synthe, where a lot of these abandoned women and children now reside. It's been in the news a lot recently due to the bad conditions there.



That's actually really depressing to hear... I know a while ago it was reported that doctors in Australia refused to send children refugees back to the camps because the situation was just so bad. The doctors were suppose to send the children back after they got better, but the children were terrified of the refugee camp there apparently. They would wet their beds thinking about going back to the refugee camps. The hospital as a whole started boycotting the government, but I have no idea how that story ended.

It almost makes me wonder how long this situation will last. ISIS has as much time as they have oil. 

As a child of two refugees, it was ****ing awful to hear about. I just hope this war ends as soon as possible for these refugees. No children should have to grow up like this. 

The Yazidi especially. They will never be able to fully recover from this. So many of their women have been sexually abused for months, this will become such a traumatic event in their lives. Even if they're free like 2 years from now, so many of the women and children of this generation will be unable to fully recover. It breaks families. It breaks your spirit.

I just feel complicated in this refugee crisis because I know the pain it is to grow up with a dysfunctional family because your parents are both refugees traumatized in one way or another from a war. Things never truly go back to normal.


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## Noroxus (Jan 8, 2016)

I live in Germany so the news are full with reports the whole time... Tbh I do have to say that the German population is getting progressively xenophobic and paranoid. Theres a huuuuge problem with integration of refugees, because the sheer mass of them is incredible. Personally I dont mind refugees and I welcome them aswell, but look back in American history where the immigrants created town parts with their own culture without adopting to the "American" culture (Chinatown etc.). So if you drop 100 moslems into a group of 10 Germans, the moslems will create a community of their own and the 10 Germans might be excluded and ignored. Exactly this is happening in overcrowded places like Munich, Berlin, etc., where the refugees have no idea where to go, because the registration offices are incredibly overloaded and huge lines of people are waiting in front of the doors.


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## piichinu (Jan 8, 2016)

Yup 90% of Muslims from Syria are rapists and huge pieces of scum.


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## Noroxus (Jan 8, 2016)

piichinu said:


> Yup 90% of Muslims from Syria are rapists and huge pieces of scum.



I wouldn't say that 90% are rapists, but I do have to say that their culture and religion isnt very friendly towards minorities and women. Even their scientfic progress is extremly bad (Islam, duh...), because of fundamentalism/extremism. I mean just look at the Nobel Prize list, its like 3 people from Arabic countries and 240+ Jewish people. 
They are limiting their own progression, acceptance, etc. through their own beliefs. 

However exactly this happened once already with Christianity in the Middle Ages (Allahu Akbar <-> Deus vult!)
Islam is too young as a religion compared to Christianity...

_imo all religions are pure bs.... Science > Religion_
_But everyone can believe what he wants as long as the doesnt hurt anyone mentally or physically_


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## radical6 (Jan 8, 2016)

Noroxus said:


> I live in Germany so the news are full with reports the whole time... Tbh I do have to say that the German population is getting progressively xenophobic and paranoid. Theres a huuuuge problem with integration of refugees, because the sheer mass of them is incredible. Personally I dont mind refugees and I welcome them aswell, but look back in American history where the immigrants created town parts with their own culture without adopting to the "American" culture (Chinatown etc.). So if you drop 100 moslems into a group of 10 Germans, the moslems will create a community of their own and the 10 Germans might be excluded and ignored. Exactly this is happening in overcrowded places like Munich, Berlin, etc., where the refugees have no idea where to go, because the registration offices are incredibly overloaded and huge lines of people are waiting in front of the doors.




Speaking as someone viet/chinese, chinatown culture isn't really 100% chinese. You're wrong on that part that they don't adopt anerican customs.

Chinese culture in America is often blended with Chinese and American elements. Chinese people and Chinese Americans might celebrate holidays differently. Chinese Americans just kept their culture while adopting some American traits.

I disagree that immigrants must fully assimilate into the country. They should be allowed to keep their culture. However I do not think these refugees will create a.. uh, "Islamtown" or something in Germany. 

They will eventually adopt German customs, but that takes time. Years maybe. But you cant expect them to like learn German customs within a year and fully assimilate yet. These people probably can't speak good German yet. 

Regarding the uh bad refugees, I feel as if they came in with the intent to cause chaos. They will never truly fit into German society. If they really did care I don't think they would **** up and get themselves deported. These attacks are coordinated and these men knew that groping these women were wrong.


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## Noroxus (Jan 8, 2016)

justice said:


> Speaking as someone viet/chinese, chinatown culture isn't really 100% chinese. You're wrong on that part that they don't adopt anerican customs.
> 
> Chinese culture in America is often blended with Chinese and American elements. Chinese people and Chinese Americans might celebrate holidays differently. Chinese Americans just kept their culture while adopting some American traits.
> 
> ...




Actually I totally agree with you. As an immigrant myself I can relate to keeping your culture while adapting some other parts. Canada is a wonderful example for that. 

I take everything I said back. You are right here


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## piichinu (Jan 8, 2016)

Noroxus said:


> I wouldn't say that 90% are rapists, but I do have to say that their culture and religion isnt very friendly towards minorities and women. Even their scientfic progress is extremly bad (Islam, duh...), because of fundamentalism/extremism. I mean just look at the Nobel Prize list, its like 3 people from Arabic countries and 240+ Jewish people.
> They are limiting their own progression, acceptance, etc. through their own beliefs.
> 
> However exactly this happened once already with Christianity in the Middle Ages (Allahu Akbar <-> Deus vult!)
> ...



I'm aware as a Christian minority from Syria whose family still lives there lol

Yes the vast majority are rapists, disrespectful, and vandalize anything that belongs to Christians but anyway

In Syria that is, I don't have any personal experiences/inside information on other countries


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## Knopekin (Jan 8, 2016)

Noroxus said:


> I wouldn't say that 90% are rapists, but I do have to say that their culture and religion isnt very friendly towards minorities and women. Even their scientfic progress is extremly bad (Islam, duh...), because of fundamentalism/extremism. I mean just look at the Nobel Prize list, its like 3 people from Arabic countries and 240+ Jewish people.
> They are limiting their own progression, acceptance, etc. through their own beliefs.
> 
> However exactly this happened once already with Christianity in the Middle Ages (Allahu Akbar <-> Deus vult!)
> ...



A little off-topic, but interestingly. Islamic countries used to lead the world in terms of scientific progress; the Ottoman Empire developed astronomy, geography, timekeeping, numeracy (the numbers we use are arabic!) and more, all while Europe was in the Dark Ages. There's no reason an Islamic society should be anti-science. It's a real shame most Muslim countries don't contribute much to art and science these days, but it definitely wasn't always the case, and Islam and science are definitely not incompatible.

In fact, among the other horrors ISIS is committing, they're actively destroying things like libraries and ancient architecture, which means people fleeing those areas, even if peace is eventually brought to the region, can never get back those cultural touchstones, which is terribly sad.


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## Aestivate (Jan 8, 2016)

Munna said:


> I know a lot about these statistics, and there is a difference though between what is reported & officially reported to police. Some countries carry a HUGE stigma against women who experience attacks like this, so women don't always report things officially. That makes it pretty scary when people like Amnesty International carry out their own investigations into countries where the recorded rape is 1 in 7, but in reality the unofficial count is 1 in 4 off the record.
> It's very hard to get accurate statistics, but the thing is this is very common in places where people are powerless & poverty stricken in general, I thought it was bad enough the starvation rates in those places like Ethiopia, but they also have one of the highest RECORDED (maybe much more that's not recorded) rates of rape in a country.
> 
> The statistics do however reflect cultural values & societal treatment & views of women in a society, religion or culture.
> ...



I certainly agree with you on that.
A lot of second and third world countries seem to base their information on police and court statistics only. Organisations like Amnesty International help a lot with exposing the dark figure of a subject by victim surveys and self-report studies. I do however believe that these organisations won't have a lot of influence in countries like Saudi Arabia as these goverments are totally not pragmatic regardless of the human-rights situation they are already in.  



Noroxus said:


> I live in Germany so the news are full with reports the whole time... Tbh I do have to say that the German population is getting progressively xenophobic and paranoid. Theres a huuuuge problem with integration of refugees, because the sheer mass of them is incredible. Personally I dont mind refugees and I welcome them aswell, but look back in American history where the immigrants created town parts with their own culture without adopting to the "American" culture (Chinatown etc.). So if you drop 100 moslems into a group of 10 Germans, the moslems will create a community of their own and the 10 Germans might be excluded and ignored. Exactly this is happening in overcrowded places like Munich, Berlin, etc., where the refugees have no idea where to go, because the registration offices are incredibly overloaded and huge lines of people are waiting in front of the doors.



I'm very interested to hear the level of segregation happening in Germany and possible in other countries. I can't speak on behalf of the whole Netherlands but in my city of 50.000 citizens where only 1500 refugees have asylum and some nearby small towns where now about 30-50% of the population have asylum, refugees have caused very little trouble and are intergrating quite well. Of course this can be a matter of 'luck' in a sense of having easily ''intergate-able'' refugees asking for asylum but I doubt this since I'm talking about around 3000 refugees.
Some nearby towns have been taking in refugees (from Syrian and Eritrean origin) for quite a lot of years and they fit in the community very smoothly even though there are obvious religious and cultural differences. Most of the community here seems to understand that once they're here it's better to just help them intergrate and have a decent conversation with the few people that still ask for complete assimilation.


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## Noroxus (Jan 8, 2016)

Aestivate said:


> I certainly agree with you on that.
> A lot of second and third world countries seem to base their information on police and court statistics only. Organisations like Amnesty International help a lot with exposing the dark figure of a subject by victim surveys and self-report studies. I do however believe that these organisations won't have a lot of influence in countries like Saudi Arabia as these goverments are totally not pragmatic regardless of the human-rights situation they are already in.
> 
> 
> ...



You should definitely search up Pegida and AfD (political party). Germany is currently undergoing a segregation in far-right and central-left. In the New Year Eve speech of Angela Merkel, she underlined the fact that our society should not split and we should do everything possible to stop it from happening. 
A lot of hate has risen up here, people are scared to go to big cities (statistics from RTL; German TV - _RTL is really bad tho... TV channel for the masses if you know what I mean_). There are a lot of protests against the press as well, because the Pegida idiots (you could say Nazis aswell, because thats how they behave themselves) are taking control of the fears that the immigrants are creating, which resulted in a mistrust in the press by a lot of far-right sympatisants. The word "L?genpresse" is often used here, [L?gen = lies; Presse = press ofc.] 

Society is really splitting itself over here and its not something to ignore as history shows...

EDIT: The weird thing is we have people that are Pro-Russia and veeeeeery Pro-Putin (Eastern Germany mostly) and Pro-USA (Western Germany), so even though Germany was unified there are still things unchanged. 

Imo its like Republicans and Democrats fighting each other in a way


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## MozzarellaSticks (Jan 8, 2016)

justice said:


> Speaking as someone viet/chinese, chinatown culture isn't really 100% chinese. You're wrong on that part that they don't adopt anerican customs.
> 
> Chinese culture in America is often blended with Chinese and American elements. Chinese people and Chinese Americans might celebrate holidays differently. Chinese Americans just kept their culture while adopting some American traits.
> 
> ...


As someone who lives by a large Muslim and Arab community, they do create an "Islam town." If you go there signs turn to Arabic, and they even have the call to prayer. Nothing wrong with it. Cultures tend to settle in one area, and stay by the people they know. It's not the best part of town, but the people are friendly.


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## Aestivate (Jan 8, 2016)

Noroxus said:


> You should definitely search up Pegida and AfD (political party). Germany is currently undergoing a segregation in far-right and central-left. In the New Year Eve speech of Angela Merkel, she underlined the fact that our society should not split and we should do everything possible to stop it from happening.
> A lot of hate has risen up here, people are scared to go to big cities (statistics from RTL; German TV - _RTL is really bad tho... TV channel for the masses if you know what I mean_). There are a lot of protests against the press as well, because the Pegida idiots (you could say Nazis aswell, because thats how they behave themselves) are taking control of the fears that the immigrants are creating, which resulted in a mistrust in the press by a lot of far-right sympatisants. The word "L?genpresse" is often used here, [L?gen = lies; Presse = press ofc.]
> 
> Society is really splitting itself over here and its not something to ignore as history shows...
> ...



I'm fully aware of the raising far-right movement. Pegida is very active here too and the only far-right party here has gained a massive 34% in popularity from the votes it used to get since the start of the refugee crisis. I personally am political left but do not have a problem with right-winged people as long as they can give proper arguments for their opinion and to be honest with you. Most right-winged people can not give proper arguments here including the far-right government party (which is not even a party since only Geert Wilders is official member of it). They use simple language so everybody can understand what they are saying but in the meantime are thinking way too simple about solutions for any discussed situation. 
There are also some regions/cities/towns that seem to be mainly extremely against refugees but I'm happy it's a different story in my region. It's sad how friendships get torn down just because you've different political opinions.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Jan 8, 2016)

Knopekin said:


> A little off-topic, but interestingly. Islamic countries used to lead the world in terms of scientific progress; the Ottoman Empire developed astronomy, geography, timekeeping, numeracy (the numbers we use are arabic!) and more, all while Europe was in the Dark Ages. There's no reason an Islamic society should be anti-science. It's a real shame most Muslim countries don't contribute much to art and science these days, but it definitely wasn't always the case, and Islam and science are definitely not incompatible.
> 
> In fact, among the other horrors ISIS is committing, they're actively destroying things like libraries and ancient architecture, which means people fleeing those areas, even if peace is eventually brought to the region, can never get back those cultural touchstones, which is terribly sad.


Ancient libraries, though. The Middle East has not been the forefront for science for a long time. It also took a giant leap back after the Cold War tore it apart.


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## Noroxus (Jan 8, 2016)

Quick offtopic: ISIS actually has a CONSTITUTION where everything from education to health care is regulated... That is insane if you think about it. They are dead-serious about becoming a country :O


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## Amilee (Jan 8, 2016)

i dont really wanna take part in this discussion because i didnt do enough research on it but i am a woman living near cologne and its really scary :/ 
germany is all over the place right now tbh. im really afraid this will play into the hands of racist people and the afd getting so much more votes lately isnt a good sign either. 
idk why cant everyone just be friendly qq this world is such a horible place...


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## tobi! (Jan 9, 2016)

I wonder if Angela will be booted in the next election.


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## Cory (Jan 9, 2016)

pillow bunny said:


> yeah totally, all crimes are the police's fault for not stopping them
> and even if they did have a stronger police force it's not like the government could teleport enough police to arrest 1000 people
> how can anyone deny that this was caused because of refugees? if they weren't let into the country this would not have happened and that is a fact. even if you support refugees you can't deny that.



wow nice job grouping all refugees as bad people


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## Knopekin (Jan 9, 2016)

Cory said:


> wow nice job grouping all refugees as bad people



Yeah, why not ban all men while we're at it, since 100% of perpetrators were men?


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## Cory (Jan 9, 2016)

Knopekin said:


> Yeah, why not ban all men while we're at it, since 100% of perpetrators were men?



Yea white straight cis men are the problem with society


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## pillow bunny (Jan 9, 2016)

not all refugees are bad people but a significant portion of them are and it's basically impossible to find out which ones are
allowing them into a country isn't worth it if many of them are going to assault/rob/rape/murder the country's citizens
it may be discrimination, but it's justified because a country's top priority should be the safety of its own citizens

- - - Post Merge - - -



Cory said:


> Yea white straight cis men are the problem with society



not sure if trolling


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## oath2order (Jan 9, 2016)

Knopekin said:


> A little off-topic, but interestingly. Islamic countries used to lead the world in terms of scientific progress; the Ottoman Empire developed astronomy, geography, timekeeping, numeracy (the numbers we use are arabic!) and more, all while Europe was in the Dark Ages. There's no reason an Islamic society should be anti-science. It's a real shame most Muslim countries don't contribute much to art and science these days, but it definitely wasn't always the case, and Islam and science are definitely not incompatible.
> 
> In fact, among the other horrors ISIS is committing, they're actively destroying things like libraries and ancient architecture, which means people fleeing those areas, even if peace is eventually brought to the region, can never get back those cultural touchstones, which is terribly sad.



That's because ISIS wants to keep the population of the areas they control ignorant. They want to keep them ignorant so they don't know any better, so they don't learn anything so they can't fight back.


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## Reindeer (Jan 9, 2016)

Noroxus said:


> Quick offtopic: ISIS actually has a CONSTITUTION where everything from education to health care is regulated... That is insane if you think about it. They are dead-serious about becoming a country :O


ISIS' country and government would have to be recognized by other countries. As things stand now, nobody will do that. That's at least a small part of the reason why ISIS wants to destroy free countries that don't have an Islamic majority. But ISIS has been losing a lot of ground, and are a tiny organization compared to any country they're fighting against, so it's pretty obvious what the outcome will be.



Knopekin said:


> Yeah, why not ban all men while we're at it, since 100% of perpetrators were men?


If we had to ban anything, this would be the most effective. In the most recent information given (on Thursday), of the 31 people they have identified, 18 were asylum seekers. A Serb, an American, and two Germans were among the perpetrators they identified.

So while refugees did participate in what happened, German nationals and tourists did as well.


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## radical6 (Jan 9, 2016)

pretty sure ISIS just needs land in order for their "caliphate" to be legit. thats the reason theyve been invading areas. its required. theres a bunch of other **** needed in order to be a caliphate, but getting land was one of them. being seen as a nation is not.


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## Reindeer (Jan 9, 2016)

justice said:


> pretty sure ISIS just needs land in order for their "caliphate" to be legit. thats the reason theyve been invading areas. its required. theres a bunch of other **** needed in order to be a caliphate, but getting land was one of them. being seen as a nation is not.


Religiously, yes. I was talking about the geopolitics surrounding such a situation. If other countries don't recognize it and they continue their atrocities, they'll be under constant attack from all sides, as ties with them are not needed. Those are hardly ideal circumstances, let alone circumstances they can survive in.

Again though, ISIS has been losing ground. Even their African counterpart and ally, Boko Haram, is all but defeated. They want a caliphate, an actual country, but it's obvious the world won't allow it.


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## Reindeer (Jan 11, 2016)

So, some updates:

The amount of reports filed in Cologne alone has risen to 516, of which around 200 include sexual abuse. (source)
The police chief has been forced to go into an early retirement. That is likely due to the police statement on January 1st, in which it said that the festivities were "peaceful".

And if this happening in Germany isn't enough... Now Sweden has joined the party! Yay!
After years of Swedish people trying to expose the corruption of their government, mostly through alternative news sites, it's now become clear that the Swedish police has been keeping information from the public. This is information regarding sexual assaults at a music festival in Stockholm, done in the same manner as it was done in Cologne. Most of the perpetrators were Afghan refugees. Some of the victims were as young as 11. (source)
Apparently this is due to the police fearing that such information will play into the hands of the far-right political party.

My opinion on that: It's not the information playing into their hands, it's migrants committing such vile acts. The police is supposed to be an entity that protects people, and giving the public this kind of information can actually help them. The police is not an entity that should involve itself in the country's politics.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Jan 11, 2016)

Germany used that police chief as a scapegoat. There are way more people involved.


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## Reindeer (Jan 11, 2016)

hariolari said:


> Germany used that police chief as a scapegoat. There are way more people involved.


I wouldn't be surprised if the officers at the scene that didn't call in for help were reprimanded somehow, or will be soon. But firing the police chief is a much clearer signal that the powers that be think the police failed their duties that night.


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## KarlaKGB (Jan 11, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> So, some updates:
> 
> The amount of reports filed in Cologne alone has risen to 516, of which around 200 include sexual abuse. (source)
> The police chief has been forced to go into an early retirement. That is likely due to the police statement on January 1st, in which it said that the festivities were "peaceful".
> ...



it's this hiding of information that will play into far right activists' hands the most


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## tobi! (Jan 11, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> So, some updates:
> 
> The amount of reports filed in Cologne alone has risen to 516, of which around 200 include sexual abuse. (source)
> The police chief has been forced to go into an early retirement. That is likely due to the police statement on January 1st, in which it said that the festivities were "peaceful".
> ...



Sweden has been pretty ****ed up for awhile now...

Tbh, I think many officers, politicians, and all around people are afraid to call out the "bad guys" because they fear they'll be seen as racist.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Jan 11, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the officers at the scene that didn't call in for help were reprimanded somehow, or will be soon. But firing the police chief is a much clearer signal that the powers that be think the police failed their duties that night.


Well, considering some of those officers were also sexually assaulted, I don't know.


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## oath2order (Jan 11, 2016)

KarlaKGB said:


> it's this hiding of information that will play into far right activists' hands the most



But then if you release the information, it also plays into their hands.

Not releasing it makes them suspicious "Look they're covering up for the immigrants!"
Releasing it makes them suspicious "Look at what these immigrants do!"

I think European countries really need to do what Norway did.


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## tobi! (Jan 11, 2016)

oath2order said:


> But then if you release the information, it also plays into their hands.
> 
> Not releasing it makes them suspicious "Look they're covering up for the immigrants!"
> Releasing it makes them suspicious "Look at what these immigrants do!"
> ...


Yes but the people who took the class took it willingly it seems. Many people do not care how they treat others and they already know they're doing bad things.


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## Reindeer (Jan 12, 2016)

oath2order said:


> I think European countries really need to do what Norway did.


The refugees that commit crimes tear up their residence papers, they call police racist, they reject the country's laws, call the women whores and sluts... Such classes are not going to help. They know they are disrespecting the people, and they know they are breaking the law, they just think they're above it.

Think back to the Rotherham scandal that was exposed in 2014. What was the police's reason for not reporting thousands of children being sexually abused in a prostitution ring by Muslim men? "We didn't want to seem racist."
White people fear being called racist so much that they'll let these ****lords escape justice, simply so whites come across as more "tolerant". We shouldn't be tolerant of criminals, they're ****ing scumbags.

I've seen plenty of people in this thread saying they're scared of the rising nationalism in various countries, but it's a natural reaction to what has been happening for _years_. People are tired of being politically correct, people are tired of being called racist, people want ****ing justice. It's not a hate for migrants or foreigners or Islam, it's not xenophobia or Islamophobia; it's a direct result of how the left has ****ed everything up for natives over the last few decades. These nationalists want control back in their countries, to not get called a racist when they arrest another Muslim man for raping a child, to be able to speak freely.

Yes, most migrants don't do anything. But unless you stand up and tell your government to take action and to be honest, this kind of bull is going to continue for years to come. These aren't the kinds of things people should be saying, as these criminals don't deserve any protection. It's these kinds of actions that are necessary, because it's time to protect the natives. That's why these people are in their positions of power in the first place, to make sure their people can live in a safe and secure environment.

Those that commit these acts should be punished. If they come in from another country and they commit robbery, molestation and/or rape, or acts of violence thinking they'll keep their residence in the country, then show them that you'll kick them the **** out. People don't want that scum in their country.


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## tae (Jan 12, 2016)

oath2order said:


> But then if you release the information, it also plays into their hands.
> 
> Not releasing it makes them suspicious "Look they're covering up for the immigrants!"
> Releasing it makes them suspicious "Look at what these immigrants do!"
> ...



bless norway.


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## tobi! (Jan 12, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> The refugees that commit crimes tear up their residence papers, they call police racist, they reject the country's laws, call the women whores and sluts... Such classes are not going to help. They know they are disrespecting the people, and they know they are breaking the law, they just think they're above it.
> 
> Think back to the Rotherham scandal that was exposed in 2014. What was the police's reason for not reporting thousands of children being sexually abused in a prostitution ring by Muslim men? "We didn't want to seem racist."
> White people fear being called racist so much that they'll let these ****lords escape justice, simply so whites come across as more "tolerant". We shouldn't be tolerant of criminals, they're ****ing scumbags.
> ...



I agree with everything your saying. I think it's absolute garbage that there are people more concerned on how the refugees look than how the woman who were sexually assaulted are doing. 

I read an interesting article on how the Japanese are dealing with Islam and migration.  It's worth a read if anyone is interested. http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/23/sweden-opened-its-doors-to-muslim-immigration-today-its-the-rape-capital-of-the-west-japan-didnt/

I hate to say it but god damn, I am so sick of seeing Europe and North America ****ed by political correctness. Everyone is trying to make cultures intertwine when in reality, they cannot mix. I also find it strange how people are quick to bash Christianity but will stand by that Islam is a religion of "peace". 

Also what happened in Germany is happening in other places like in Finland: http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/europe/98312-160107-unprecedented-sex-harassment-in-helsinki-at-new-year-police

I honestly don't know if Europe is gonna crack down on these people.


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## oath2order (Jan 12, 2016)

Norski said:


> I agree with everything your saying. I think it's absolute garbage that there are people more concerned on how the refugees look than how the woman who were sexually assaulted are doing.
> 
> I read an interesting article on how the Japanese are dealing with Islam and migration.  It's worth a read if anyone is interested. http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/23/sweden-opened-its-doors-to-muslim-immigration-today-its-the-rape-capital-of-the-west-japan-didnt/
> 
> ...



Japan is xenophobic as **** though


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## radical6 (Jan 12, 2016)

oath2order said:


> Japan is xenophobic as **** though



Yep. They hate Chinese and Koreans. They hate anyone mixed. They hate anyone non Japanese. 

Last year, a mixed Japanese/Black girl won some huge beauty contest in Japan. They're worst than like how the US was mad some Indian girl won some beauty contest. In Japan it was even worse. They hated her because she wasn't 100% Japanese and she was black.

Japan is very racist so I wouldn't exactly look to them for inspiration. There's a reason why China and Korea refuse to forgive Japan for its warcrimes - it's people are extremely racist most the time to foreigners AND Japanese political officials still go to the funerals of war criminals. 

Yes Japan is having an aging crisis. None of their people want to date. I don't see how that stops them from supporting refugees, but this is the same country that just cut funding for many humanities based programs in universities. They're turning to only focusing on science degrees or whatever, and I do not see this problem in Japan getting any better.


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## KarlaKGB (Jan 13, 2016)

i mean japan were basically the asian nazis in ww2, their ideology and propaganda revolved around their racial superiority over their barbarian neighbours


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