# Guns



## Soda Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

Since the thread about visiting the US is getting a little off topic I think it's a good time to start a new thread. Mods if you feel this is an inappropriate  topic please delete it.

Anyway I've lived in the US my whole life so I've lived with the knowledge that the people I went to school with and work with own guns. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I actually feel better knowing that if some criminal wanted to drive by shooting up my neighborhood that one of the people of my community could put a quick stop to it instead of (a word*) idly waiting for the police.


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## Franny (Jun 1, 2017)

I'm the same way. Obviously not things like huge hunting rifles or whatever, but like, for security reasons i'd like to know that someone could stop an intruder of some sort. I could see how people could feel uncomfortable though.


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## Mu~ (Jun 1, 2017)

I remember watching TV and people saying they had to install metal detectors at schools. It must be hell living like that, you are supposed to learn and have a good time with your friends there, not worrying about getting shot ._.


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## B e t h a n y (Jun 1, 2017)

I hate hate HATE guns.

I don't undstand how people find it fun to go out shooting. If you're shooting with the intent to eat it, fine I can live with that. But if you're going out killing animals for for fun... wth.


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## Mr. Cat (Jun 1, 2017)

I hate guns (as someone with sensory sensitivites, they're REALLY loud) but I don't mind if other people have them.


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## Soda Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

B e t h a n y said:


> I hate hate HATE guns.
> 
> I don't undstand how people find it fun to go out shooting. If you're shooting with the intent to eat it, fine I can live with that. But if you're going out killing animals for for fun... wth.



I just wanted to point out that a lot of us who go shooting for fun do so at a range and at inanimate objects. But I agree I'm not big on shooting animals for fun - for eating or protection imo. That said who am I to judge? A lot of people don't like that I smoke pot for fun and not medical purposes but I would hope they don't judge me on what I do for fun.


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## moonford (Jun 1, 2017)

Guns disgust me, especially when they're used on animals.


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## Lululand (Jun 1, 2017)

I hate guns, I don't think they're anything but a threat to people (even when they're for "self sefense"), and even just going near one or knowing that someone I know has guns (it only happened like twice bc I don't live in the US) makes me incredibly nervous and shaky and I don't think there's anything strange about that. I actually think many people are de-sensitised if they're not afraid of guns, unless they're a trained professional or something.


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## easpa (Jun 1, 2017)

I'm really not a fan. Here in Ireland, not even the police have guns for the most part and it doesn't seem to have any negative impact on their ability to keep the peace.


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## moonford (Jun 1, 2017)

easpa said:


> I'm really not a fan. Here in Ireland, not even the police have guns for the most part and it doesn't seem to have any negative impact on their ability to keep the peace.



Exactly, we're doing just fine without them so why can't they? 

Guns are doing nothing but bad things in other countries, guess why? It's because it is a weapon used to kill people or injure people.


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## Nightmares (Jun 1, 2017)

I think guns are cool, and it was exciting seeing one irl, but I do think they should be illegal 
There's been a lot of gun related crimes in America, and I don't think they should be so easy to obtain


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## Alolan_Apples (Jun 1, 2017)

I am against gun control, but I wouldn't support gun laws as loose as Louisiana's either. And if I were to pass gun control laws, I would rather tax people for gun ownership than take away guns completely.


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## Soda Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

Nightmares said:


> I think guns are cool, and it was exciting seeing one irl, but I do think they should be illegal
> There's been a lot of gun related crimes in America, and I don't think they should be so easy to obtain



While I don't think they should be illegal I do think there should be more to getting one. In my state they do a background check on whoever is purchasing it, but then that person can turn around and just give it to someone else. I definitely think guns should be registered to the person who buys it, much like a car or house, and if a crime is committed with that gun then the person it's registered to is responsible for the crime. We're taught in gun class that your gun is your responsibility and to never leave it where someone else can get their hands on it. I think registered guns will cut down on a lot of guns floating around in the wrong hands.

Also, I think to get a gun you should have to take a class. That said, people can own cars workout a license and without taking a class - but I don't think that should be how things are. Unless it's an unusable car/gun for collectors purposes only.


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## Ghost Soda (Jun 1, 2017)

I don't like guns, and would prefer if America would at least try to set some more laws around getting and having them.

There's also this meme I saw once that I like:


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## Corrie (Jun 1, 2017)

I hate guns. I wish they didn't exist. I know that some people like them for defense but if they didn't exist, we wouldn't need to counter them by owning our own for defense. I know shootings happen everywhere but it seems to happen so often in the USA, a place that has loose gun laws in a lot of states. It seems kinda obvious to me of why that is.


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## tumut (Jun 1, 2017)

Zendel said:


> Guns disgust me, especially when they're used on animals.


How r u supposed to kill an animal then??

Should we hack at their neck with an axe until they're dead

- - - Post Merge - - -

I think guns are fine just keep them away from criminals and the mentally ill, they don't make me feel safe at all


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## Ghost Soda (Jun 1, 2017)

tumut said:


> How r u supposed to kill an animal then??
> 
> Should we hack at their neck with an axe until they're dead
> 
> ...



I think the answer here is "don't kill animals."


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## tumut (Jun 1, 2017)

Ghost Soda said:


> I think the answer here is "don't kill animals."


Ok I guess I'll just eat my chicken while its still alive


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## Romaki (Jun 1, 2017)

Never seen guns in my life, most cops don't even get them here. Last school shooting in our country was in 2008 and I still remember that day, the horror and sadness, like yesterday. A lawful citizen has to safely store a gun, which will not help anyone in the case of an emergency. Obviously most Americans don't follow that law and leave them out in the open for anyone to find and use. There's no conspiracy why America is so unsafe that you need guns 24/7. You do not need to go to the grocery store with a gun, there's no threat in your country. The guns are your problem. It's fine if you want to see gun shooting as a hobby, that's what shooting ranges are for. A private citizen does not need a weapon. You're not at war.


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## moonford (Jun 1, 2017)

tumut said:


> Ok I guess I'll just eat my chicken while its still alive



Your diet doesn't concern me, animals do.


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## visibleghost (Jun 1, 2017)

i dont understand why anyone would ever think they have a right to shoot someone else. it isnt a human right to have guns and even if you are attacked by someone you cant use more force than them (so, like, if someone attacks you with no weapons abd you shoot them in the face... that's not self defense that's just murder) and killing people bc u feel threathened or w/e ??? is weird???
even if you dont use ur gun u put other people in dangwr and make them scared. if you would never kill someone you wouldnt need a gun (unless you were a hunter or whatever and then you only carry your gun with you when you go hunting.....)

anyways it's kinda Interesting to hear ppl say that they need guns to defend themselves against crime w guns bc if it was harder to get guns thered not be as much gun violence And there are other ways ti stop crime that arent literally shooting ppl.,.,,,


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## tumut (Jun 1, 2017)

Zendel said:


> Your diet doesn't concern me, animals do.


It's not morally wrong to eat meat. It's a part of nature, humans like most primates are omnivores.Like are y'all gonna start yelling at dogs for not eating tofu? 

Animal cruelty and factory farming are obviously wrong, but like cage free chicken and eggs and local butchers exist. Not everyone can afford to shop at trader joes and buy vegan food, and even if they can afford it it's not like that person hates animals. I'd rather haven someone go out in the woods and shoot and butcher a turkey than eat something factory farmed. Like hunting as a sport isn't really right, like all these rednecks taking pics of their 8 yr old son and the deer they shot. But basically, you can't act like killing animals is wrong cause its a part of nature. That's how the food chain works , its not a sin to kill an animal.

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visibleghost said:


> i dont understand why anyone would ever think they have a right to shoot someone else. it isnt a human right to have guns and even if you are attacked by someone you cant use more force than them (so, like, if someone attacks you with no weapons abd you shoot them in the face... that's not self defense that's just murder) and killing people bc u feel threathened or w/e ??? is weird???
> even if you dont use ur gun u put other people in dangwr and make them scared. if you would never kill someone you wouldnt need a gun (unless you were a hunter or whatever and then you only carry your gun with you when you go hunting.....)
> 
> anyways it's kinda Interesting to hear ppl say that they need guns to defend themselves against crime w guns bc if it was harder to get guns thered not be as much gun violence And there are other ways ti stop crime that arent literally shooting ppl.,.,,,


Yeah I hate "guns don't kill ppl, ppl kill ppl!" or "if we get rid of guns ppl r just gonna find other ways to hurt ppl!"
Like ok hun try to murder me with a spoon, im sure the ammount murders will stay exactly the same : )


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## moonford (Jun 1, 2017)

tumut said:


> It's not morally wrong to eat meat. It's a part of nature, humans like most primates are omnivores.Like are y'all gonna start yelling at dogs for not eating tofu?
> 
> Animal cruelty and factory farming are obviously wrong, but like cage free chicken and eggs and local butchers exist. Not everyone can afford to shop at trader joes and buy vegan food, and even if they can afford it it's not like that person hates animals. I'd rather haven someone go out in the woods and shoot and butcher a turkey than eat something factory farmed. Like hunting as a sport isn't really right, like all these rednecks taking pics of their 8 yr old son and the deer they shot. But basically, you can't act like killing animals is wrong cause its a part of nature. That's how the food chain works , its not a sin to kill an animal.



We all have morals, and some morals differ. Mine just so happen to differ from yours and we can be civil about this or you can start an argument either way I'm leaving this conversation after this post as I feel like this will go off topic and will centre more so around veganism and animal rights than gun laws and guns in general.

Why would I yell at an animal that relies heavily on meat as it's food source? That's ridiculous. Humans can survive with and without meat and I just so happen to survive without meat, I'm healthy and I feel better about myself because I know I'm not contributing to the deaths of billions of animals. I'm aware that some people can't survive without meat and that's okay, I'm not going to shame them, I never have and I never will. So why are acting like that's what I'm doing? I can tolerate what you eat, I'm just not a fan of it, clearly. 

Again why are bringing up vegan foods that people can and can't afford? If you eat meat, continue to do it if you want to, I just think it's sad and awful but again I'm not going to shame people for eating meat. 

I have lived with animals and studied animals since I was a young child and I bet I know much more about animals than you, so it's unnecessary to point out food chains and nature, I KNOW HOW THEY WORK, I find it to be patronizing.

I think killing and eating animals is wrong and I will always believe that, so please do not tell me how to act and I believe it is wrong, luckily everyone commits sins so it's forgiven, it doesn't change my opinion of people.

*YOU DO YOU BOO* and I'll do me.


(I've made a lot of tbt from these long posts, lol)


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## nintendofan85 (Jun 1, 2017)

I don't mind guns for security reasons. At the same time though, I will say that I support gun control laws because it is so easy for guns to get in the hands of the wrong people. After the two major shootings that took place in 2012 and then obviously recent terrorist events in Europe have shown what radicalized religion has done with them (although, we knew that Islamist terrorism was going to be a threat no matter what since September 11, 2001), I think it's clear that the very mentally ill and those with terrorist connections do not need to possess a gun.


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## Alolan_Apples (Jun 1, 2017)

I do have to admit that America is a little too crazy when it comes to guns. Not because of the obsession on guns, but because of what happened between 2012 and 2013. Some reporter living in America criticized America for having the second amendment. And guess what happened. *People petitioned to get him deported for saying that.* And this what a White House petition. Fortunately, Obama turned it down when the White House responded. When i said America is crazy, this is exactly what I'm talking about. A call to exile people who disagree with them.


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## moonford (Jun 1, 2017)

Alolan_Apples said:


> I do have to admit that America is a little too crazy when it comes to guns. Not because of the obsession on guns, but because of what happened between 2012 and 2013. Some reporter living in America criticized America for having the second amendment. And guess what happened. *People petitioned to get him deported for saying that.* And this what a White House petition. Fortunately, Obama turned it down when the White House responded. When i said America is crazy, this is exactly what I'm talking about. A call to exile people who disagree with them.



It's very pathetic isn't it?

I guess they forgot that freedom of speech is thing, huh?


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## kayleee (Jun 1, 2017)

I don't like guns at all and would never own one

like personally I don't see the point in owning a gun. as if 90% of the people who are like "it's for self defense!!!1" would actually have the balls to shoot someone


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## Alolan_Apples (Jun 1, 2017)

Zendel said:


> It's very pathetic isn't it?
> 
> I guess they forgot that freedom of speech is thing, huh?



They sure did. Not to mention, but that's intolerance.


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## moonford (Jun 1, 2017)

Alolan_Apples said:


> They sure did. Not to mention, but that's intolerance.



I wouldn't be surprised, people are very intolerant and sensitive nowadays. They blow things way out of proportion over simple comments and views.


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## piichinu (Jun 1, 2017)

i think they should just be a lot more regulated

ex. my uncle has guns, but he doesnt go hunting or anything, he just collects and occasionally shoots at targets for sport
i mean yeah, i personally have tried it, i dont think its fun or entertaining. but other people like it and its a hobby i guess so who r we to say anything about that type of person owning a gun.

but the problem is there are lit no regulations on all the sick people out there owning guns, which i think can be fixed with more background checks, testing, etc.


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## Soda Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

kayleee said:


> I don't like guns at all and would never own one
> 
> like personally I don't see the point in owning a gun. as if 90% of the people who are like "it's for self defense!!!1" would actually have the balls to shoot someone



Part of our training for those who do take gun courses is that if you're going to own a gun at all you need to be prepared to shoot it. Having a gun but not the willpower to use it if needed is just asking for trouble - especially if you have it visible. And of course if you have a gun out and it's not holstered you're _really_ asking for trouble.

One of the guys in my gun course brought his in for the shooting practice portion. In the classroom he whipped it out and was waiving it around to show us and completely broke rule #1. He was dismissed from the class for doing that.


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## RainbowCherry (Jun 1, 2017)

I don't mind the act of _having_ a gun, whether you (legally) hunt, you have it for protection, or something else entirely, but I do agree with the fact that it should get a little harder to obtain a license for one in the first place.

Pretty crap idea here, but I think you possibly should be restricted in what kind of _bullets_ you buy as well until you get an "upgraded" license. Lessay, rubber. I think they use rubber bullets for violent protests, actually - they incapacitate, but don't kill, so it'd be in the right market for the self-defence crowd. When you get a less **** license, which would require significantly harder checks, tests, yada yada, you're up to a regular license.


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## Soda Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

RainbowCherry said:


> I don't mind the act of _having_ a gun, whether you (legally) hunt, you have it for protection, or something else entirely, but I do agree with the fact that it should get a little harder to obtain a license for one in the first place.
> 
> Pretty crap idea here, but I think you possibly should be restricted in what kind of _bullets_ you buy as well until you get an "upgraded" license. Lessay, rubber. I think they use rubber bullets for violent protests, actually - they incapacitate, but don't kill, so it'd be in the right market for the self-defence crowd. When you get a less **** license, which would require significantly harder checks, tests, yada yada, you're up to a regular license.



Agreed. Even better, again, register the bullets to the person purchasing them. It wouldn't be hard to etch a serial number into each bullet matching the box it comes from, and it's up to the person who bought it to keep track of their bullets or risk a crime being committed and it falls on the person whose bullet and/or gun the registrations match.


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## Stalfos (Jun 1, 2017)

Alolan_Apples said:


> I do have to admit that America is a little too crazy when it comes to guns. Not because of the obsession on guns, but because of what happened between 2012 and 2013. Some reporter living in America criticized America for having the second amendment. And guess what happened. *People petitioned to get him deported for saying that.* And this what a White House petition. Fortunately, Obama turned it down when the White House responded. When i said America is crazy, this is exactly what I'm talking about. A call to exile people who disagree with them.



That's a bit wild. But it just goes to show how important the second amendment is to many americans.


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## forestyne (Jun 1, 2017)

Same thing I said in the non-Americans visiting America thread; I hate guns and pretty much everyone outside of the US hates them too.

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tumut said:


> How r u supposed to kill an animal then??
> 
> Should we hack at their neck with an axe until they're dead



maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't kill them at all

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tumut said:


> It's not morally wrong to eat meat. It's a part of nature, *humans like most primates are omnivores.Like are y'all gonna start yelling at dogs for not eating tofu? *
> 
> Animal cruelty and factory farming are obviously wrong, but like *cage free chicken and eggs and local butchers exist*. Not everyone can afford to shop at trader joes and buy vegan food, and even if they can afford it it's not like that person hates animals. I'd rather haven someone go out in the woods and shoot and butcher a turkey than eat something factory farmed. Like hunting as a sport isn't really right, like all these rednecks taking pics of their 8 yr old son and the deer they shot. But basically, you can't act like killing animals is wrong *cause its a part of nature. That's how the food chain works ,* its not a sin to kill an animal.
> 
> ...




1- THAT **** DOESN'T EXIST. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CRUELTY-FREE ANIMAL FARMING
2- WE ARE NOT CARNIVORES LIKE DOGS. OUR 'CANINES' DON'T MEAN THAT WE'RE VICIOUS HUNTERS; THEY WERE ORIGINALLY THERE TO BREAK OPEN NUTS AND SEEDS
3- IT'S NOT A PART OF NATURE. 
4- IT IS NOT THE FOOD CHAIN.
5- WE ARE AT THE _BOTTOM_ OF THE FOOD CHAIN

christ, i think i caught something

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Oh, right. Guns.

*If we take away all of the guns, there isn't a demand for more guns for self-defense and therefore, guns aren't needed.*


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## Miii (Jun 1, 2017)

I'm aaalll for gun rights, as long as they're registered to your name and you have no criminal history. I also think people should be allowed to have beefy hunting rifles, especially when you consider that a home invasion is usually a 2-4 person job and it takes 3-5 accurate shots with a handgun to the torso to completely stop an individual (and if you haven't had a looot of practice with your gun and you haven't mentally prepared yourself to be in a potential life or death situation, you aren't likely to be nearly as accurate as you would be otherwise). 

Also, I'm of the opinion that you forfeit your life the moment you decide to break into someone else's house, to take what they've put hours of their _limited lifespan_ into working to pay for, and to potentially do harm to them. 

I know a lot of people that don't agree with ever shooting anyone for any reason, but I can't wrap my mind around why (other than ignorance when it comes to how ****ing horrible some people are) they'd want to defend the lives of people that _choose_ to be a menace to the society they live in.

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forestyne said:


> Same thing I said in the non-Americans visiting America thread; I hate guns and pretty much everyone outside of the US hates them too.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



Lol dogs are omnivores, too, not carnivores.

Also taking away guns would never work because the technology to build them is already here. You might be able take guns away temporarily, but you can't take the knowledge surrounding them away, meaning there will always be guns, and this fantasy you have about a gun free utopia will never be reality. 

Do you realize that you can 3D print a functional gun? Granted it'll only work a few times before it breaks, but the point is that they'll always exist. There is no taking away guns. It's time to face that hard truth and move on with your life, and maybe even get a gun and start practicing shooting so you can, oh I don't know, save your life if someone ever tries to break into your house, rather than hiding in the bathroom and ****ting yourself.


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## Mink777 (Jun 1, 2017)

They're good for safety reasons or security reasons. For security.


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## forestyne (Jun 1, 2017)

Miii said:


> I'm aaalll for gun rights, as long as they're registered to your name and you have no criminal history. I also think people should be allowed to have beefy hunting rifles, especially when you consider that a home invasion is usually a 2-4 person job and it takes 3-5 accurate shots with a handgun to the torso to completely stop an individual (and if you haven't had a looot of practice with your gun and you haven't mentally prepared yourself to be in a potential life or death situation, you aren't likely to be nearly as accurate as you would be otherwise).
> 
> Also, I'm of the opinion that you forfeit your life the moment you decide to break into someone else's house, to take what they've put hours of their _limited lifespan_ into working to pay for, and to potentially do harm to them.
> 
> ...



I live in a country where guns are illegal and where, unlike the US, we don't have to shoot each other to feel secure.


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## CookieCrossing (Jun 1, 2017)

I'm fine with guns. However there should be tighter security and background checks to get a license to own a gun.

I want one since I'm paranoid about a home invasion, but my family doesn't own any.

Overall I think society would be better without them, but I want one since if other people have them and can be dangerous, I need one as well for protection.

Also I'm completely against hunting for sport.


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## Funnydog890 (Jun 1, 2017)

There's nothing wrong with using guns for hunting. As long as you don't do it just for fun, but to actually eat it. If you find fun in killing animals, as long as you eat it, and kill it in the quickest way possible, fine. You do you. And guns for self defense? That's the very reason guns exist. I don't know where people are getting this idea of "removing guns removes violence" because that's just plain dumb. You can sexually assault someone without a gun. You can build a IED without a gun. You can make a "knockout gas" and kill your victims in their sleep whitout a gun. Crossbows, knives, 3D printed guns... you can get them quite easily. If people really want to outlaw guns, to the point where you can't possess a handgun, then why don't we outlaw InstaPots, or nails? You can easily make a IED with those, and cause a whole lot more destruction than a handgun could. Heck, they're way cheaper, and no security check is required! And if people want to argue that those won't work for people who want to kill a single person, then let me tell you about knives. It's actually pretty easy to walk up to someone and stab them, believe it or not. Anyone willing to discuss this with me, I would gladly accept. Thank you.


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## Miii (Jun 1, 2017)

forestyne said:


> I live in a country where guns are illegal and where, unlike the US, we don't have to shoot each other to feel secure.



We don't shoot each other to feel secure, and I'm sure you realize that. I have 3 guns in my house and they're always loaded but I don't keep them, hoping for a chance to use them. They're there just in case some crazy ******* ever decides they want to kill me and take all my stuff. It's not likely _at all_, but that's not the point of preparing for the worst.


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## forestyne (Jun 1, 2017)

Funnydog890 said:


> There's nothing wrong with using guns for hunting. As long as you don't do it just for fun, but to actually eat it. If you find fun in killing animals, as long as you eat it, and kill it in the quickest way possible, fine. You do you. And guns for self defense? That's the very reason guns exist. I don't know where people are getting this idea of "removing guns removes violence" because that's just plain dumb. You can sexually assault someone without a gun. You can build a IED without a gun. You can make a "knockout gas" and kill your victims in their sleep whitout a gun. Crossbows, knives, 3D printed guns... you can get them quite easily. If people really want to outlaw guns, to the point where you can't possess a handgun, then why don't we outlaw InstaPots, or nails? You can easily make a IED with those, and cause a whole lot more destruction than a handgun could. Heck, they're way cheaper, and no security check is required! And if people want to argue that those won't work for people who want to kill a single person, then let me tell you about knives. It's actually pretty easy to walk up to someone and stab them, believe it or not. Anyone willing to discuss this with me, I would gladly accept. Thank you.



There should be tougher laws on carrying knives in public. If someone could easily build themselves a gun, then build it with the intent to kill people, shouldn't the government and maybe a healthcare system lol be helping those people? _Wanting_ to commit mass-murder, murder-suicide, or even just murder, should be considered a point where the authorities should step in and get that person help, surely?

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Miii said:


> We don't shoot each other to feel secure, and I'm sure you realize that. I have 3 guns in my house and they're always loaded but I don't keep them, hoping for a chance to use them. They're there just in case some crazy ******* ever decides they want to kill me and take all my stuff. It's not likely _at all_, but that's not the point of preparing for the worst.



But something should be done to help the people who feel insecure enough to _need_ guns to protect their lives. Of course, that was me making a snarky comment, but at the very least controlling who can and cannot possess a gun can lower the need for guns for self-defence


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## Miii (Jun 1, 2017)

forestyne said:


> There should be tougher laws on carrying knives in public. If someone could easily build themselves a gun, then build it with the intent to kill people, shouldn't the government and maybe a healthcare system lol be helping those people? _Wanting_ to commit mass-murder, murder-suicide, or even just murder, should be considered a point where the authorities should step in and get that person help, surely?



We've all been angry enough with someone at some point in our lives to beat them half to death, but some of us _choose_ to do it and some of us *choose* not to. Why should we protect the ones that make the decision to let go, give into their emotions, and cause harm to other people? Why defend their actions, or care about their lives when they obviously wouldn't care about you or your wellbeing? Ready for another hard truth? Some people are **** and will never change no matter how much money taxpayers throw at their therapy or anger management classes.


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## forestyne (Jun 1, 2017)

Maybe I was onto something with the shooting to feel secure thing.

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Miii said:


> We've all been angry enough with someone at some point in our lives to beat them half to death, but some of us _choose_ to do it and some of us *choose* not to. Why should we protect the ones that make the decision to let go, give into their emotions, and cause harm to other people? Why defend their actions, or care about their lives when they obviously wouldn't care about you or your wellbeing? Ready for another hard truth? Some people are **** and will never change no matter how much money taxpayers throw at their therapy or anger management classes.



Well, you're a ray of sunshine, aren't you? You seem to really care about the mentally unwell, don't you?

Another hard truth is that nothing gets better if nobody, y'know, _tries_. Something needs to change if people are riddled with anxiety to the point where they feel their life depends on owning a weapon.

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*If you don't do anything about people wanting to commit murder, staging interventions to help people who are feeling that way, more and more people will kill other people.*


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## Funnydog890 (Jun 1, 2017)

forestyne said:


> Maybe I was onto something with the shooting to feel secure thing.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...


Just because someone owns a gun, doesn't mean they are "riddled with anxiety" It's just being prepared. They just don't want to be a defenseless idiot hiding in the bathroom ****ting theirselves


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## forestyne (Jun 1, 2017)

Funnydog890 said:


> Just because someone owns a gun, doesn't mean they are "riddled with anxiety" It's just being prepared. They just don't want to be a defenseless idiot hiding in the bathroom ****ting theirselves



Up the security in and around your house then? Heck.


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## Miii (Jun 1, 2017)

forestyne said:


> Maybe I was onto something with the shooting to feel secure thing.



You _own_ a gun for a sense of sense of security. You shoot one to save your life, or someone else's in an emergency situation. 

Feeling secure owning a gun (or 3) is only natural, considering it allows you to stop an intruder that's much bigger and much stronger than you.

Also, you seem to assume that every murderer is insane or mentally ill to the point that they just can't control themselves. That's not the case. There are plenty of sane people that choose to commit murder for their own personal gain, out of anger, jealousy, or a desire for revenge that are entirely aware of what they're doing the entire time.


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## forestyne (Jun 1, 2017)

Most police forces recommend calling the police and staying in a secure spot until the police arrive anyway. Walking in front of someone with a gun, holding a gun, would cause a shootout.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Miii said:


> You _own_ a gun for a sense of sense of security. You shoot one to save your life, or someone else's in an emergency situation.
> 
> Feeling secure owning a gun (or 3) is only natural, considering it allows you to stop an intruder that's much bigger and much stronger than you.
> 
> *Also, you seem to assume that every murderer is insane or mentally ill to the point that they just can't control themselves.* That's not the case. There are plenty of sane people that choose to commit murder for their own personal gain, out of anger, jealousy, or a desire for revenge that are entirely aware of what they're doing the entire time.



Nice assumption there. Regardless of mental state, an intervention is required to prevent murders and shootings.

- - - Post Merge - - -

_this_ is why i won't go the the US

- - - Post Merge - - -



Miii said:


> You _own_ a gun for a sense of sense of security. You shoot one to save your life, or someone else's in an emergency situation.
> 
> Feeling secure owning a gun (or 3) is *only natural*, considering it allows you to stop an intruder that's much bigger and much stronger than you.
> 
> Also, you seem to assume that every murderer is insane or mentally ill to the point that they just can't control themselves. That's not the case. There are plenty of sane people that choose to commit murder for their own personal gain, out of anger, jealousy, or a desire for revenge that are entirely aware of what they're doing the entire time.



wat


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## piichinu (Jun 1, 2017)

forestyne said:


> _this_ is why i won't go the the US



non u wont go to the us because youre unreasonably paranoid lol


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## forestyne (Jun 1, 2017)

piichinu said:


> non u wont go to the us because youre unreasonably paranoid lol



unreasonably

ok


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## Miii (Jun 1, 2017)

forestyne said:


> wat



A higher likelihood of coming out of a bad situation okay = a greater sense of security. What was confusing about that?


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## forestyne (Jun 1, 2017)

Miii said:


> A higher likelihood of coming out of a bad situation okay = a greater sense of security. What was confusing about that?



no i meant you saying that wanting guns is only natural. obviously feeling and wanting to be secure is a natural instinct in all animals, but i think you can feel secure without guns.


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## Miii (Jun 1, 2017)

forestyne said:


> no i meant you saying that wanting guns is only natural. obviously feeling and wanting to be secure is a natural instinct in all animals, but i think you can feel secure without guns.



Reread what I said, I said feeling secure owning a gun is natural, because it is. And that's not the only thing that ensures that I can sleep at night. I also have deadbolts on my doors, a dog that barks at damn near everything.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Jun 1, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> I actually feel better knowing that if some criminal wanted to drive by shooting up my neighborhood that one of the people of my community could put a quick stop to it instead of (a word*) idly waiting for the police.



Where is your logic? Without guns, there would be no criminal shooting up the neighbourhood to begin with.


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## Soda Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

For anyone still confused about why Americans feel more safe with guns - consider that we have 300 years worth of legal guns floating around. And that's not even considering how many illegal guns are floating around. Even if all law abiding citizen have their's up (we won't) there'd be an incredible amount still out there and criminals will feel more secure in their ability to kill knowing citizens can't strike back.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Jun 1, 2017)

Reading some of the arguments, I want to clarify that having a knife in public is illegal in the UK, exceptions being if you have a reason to such as cutlery when camping. You also have to be 18 to buy knives or anything "dangerous" (including glue) which could be an issue as playing by the law (at least in Scotland), you could be raising your own child by then and may have fled the nest.


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## forestyne (Jun 1, 2017)

Miii said:


> Reread what I said, I said feeling secure owning a gun is natural, because it is. And that's not the only thing that ensures that I can sleep at night. I also have deadbolts on my doors, a dog that barks at damn near everything.



Which leads back to my point that people shouldn't feel that they need guns to feel secure, especially when there are other means of security such as deadbolts, tempered glass, security alarms (also known as doggos), ect.

- - - Post Merge - - -



AnimalCrossingPerson said:


> Reading some of the arguments, I want to clarify that having a knife in public is illegal in the UK, exceptions being if you have a reason to such as cutlery when camping. You also have to be 18 to buy knives or anything "dangerous" (including glue) which could be an issue as playing by the law (at least in Scotland), you could be raising your own child by then and may have fled the nest.



I got ID'd for trying to buy Gorilla glue. Granted, I had to get my dad to buy it for me.

An example of this rule is the arrest made by Westminster of a man carrying a bag _full of knives._ I believe one was even machete length.

- - - Post Merge - - -

Possession of anything that serves no purpose other than to cause physical bodily harm is also illegal in the UK, such as brass knuckles, mace, guns, ect.

Carrying a knife in public with no good reason so is a crime as well. I think they're trying to crack down on the Bayonetta-style _swords_ some online sites sell with no background checks or ID'ing.


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## Mr. Cat (Jun 1, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> For anyone still confused about why Americans feel more safe with guns - consider that we have 300 years worth of legal guns floating around. And that's not even considering how many illegal guns are floating around. Even if all law abiding citizen have their's up (we won't) there'd be an incredible amount still out there and criminals will feel more secure in their ability to kill knowing citizens can't strike back.



Exactly what I was thinking. I was reading the comments from other countries and thought it sounded very nice and ideal to not have guns (especially no police with guns so they actually want to help people, rather than go on a power trip), but we really do need to keep the dangerous people in check because there are a lot of them... *sigh*


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## Soda Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

forestyne said:


> Which leads back to my point that people shouldn't feel that they need guns to feel secure, especially when there are other means of security such as deadbolts, tempered glass, security alarms (also known as doggos), ect.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



Imagine the scenario which a criminal does a day break in hoping to get some goodies to take home to their own family. Unfortunately one of the spouses is home with the kiddo. The dog wakes them from their nap or whatever. The spouse goes down to see what's up and the criminal decides they can't leave witnesses because they dont want to go to jail. Without a gun for the lawful citizen that criminal kills the family and leaves. With a gun the lawful family might make it.

And sure, the spouse in this situation could've called the police and stayed out of sight but the criminals might go through the house and see the family anyway. Plus what if the spouse at home thought maybe the other spouse came home early?

You cannot deny that having a gun as a last line of defense is less secure than having no weapon at all - because just because you and your friends don't have one doesn't mean your enemy doesn't,  especially in the US where guns have been a part of our lives for centuries.


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## Mu~ (Jun 1, 2017)

If having guns is actually safer than not having them, I don't understand why there are so many mass shootings, accidental shootings, etc compared with those countries where people don't own guns?
Something is really wrong here and something should be done.


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## Mink777 (Jun 1, 2017)

forestyne said:


> I live in a country where guns are illegal and where, unlike the US, we don't have to shoot each other to feel secure.



Well how secure would you feel if someone marched into your house with a gun and threatened to steal everything?


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## forestyne (Jun 1, 2017)

Alien51 said:


> Well how secure would you feel if someone marched into your house with a gun and threatened to steal everything?



No guns, no worries about guns.


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## shrekluvsme (Jun 1, 2017)

forestyne said:


> No guns, no worries about guns.



I wish I could like this multiple times.


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## tumut (Jun 1, 2017)

forestyne said:


> Same thing I said in the non-Americans visiting America thread; I hate guns and pretty much everyone outside of the US hates them too.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...


Um I'm pretty sure plants and insects are at the bottom of the food chain, and we're at the top because we have guns and superior intelligence. Never said humans were carnivores, and killing animals isn't wrong. Humans eat animals just like grizzly bear hunts fish lmao how is that not a part of nature


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## Mink777 (Jun 1, 2017)

forestyne said:


> No guns, no worries about guns.



You can't expect the magical security to just come on in and take every single guns in the world and take them and, poof, they're gone from existence. Gangs, killers, and bugerlers will be able to find a way to hide their precious toys. If you get rid if guns then more innocent people will get killed, stolen from, or hurt.


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## forestyne (Jun 1, 2017)

Alien51 said:


> You can't expect the magical security to just come on in and take every single guns in the world and take them and, poof, they're gone from existence. Gangs, killers, and bugerlers will be able to find a way to hide their precious toys. If you get rid if guns then more innocent people will get killed, stolen from, or hurt.



You're right. But a good start is controlling who can and cannot possess guns.


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## Soda Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

forestyne said:


> You're right. But a good start is controlling who can and cannot possess guns.



That I agree with.  I'm interested in, again, making folks who have their guns liable for them and/or it shouldn't be as easy as it is to purchase one or the ammo that goes with it.  But in the meanwhile I think law abiding citizens should have access to guns for their own protection.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Jun 1, 2017)

Alien51 said:


> forestyne said:
> 
> 
> > No guns, no worries about guns.
> ...



Whenever I hear of a shooting, it's never in the UK. Suicide bombers are a larger threat.


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## Aniko (Jun 1, 2017)

Alien51 said:


> Well how secure would you feel if someone marched into your house with a gun and threatened to steal everything?



What if they threaten you with your own gun? What are the chances that you have your gun in your hand and ready to shoot the moment they attack you? You may be sleeping when that happens, or in the shower, or in the garden doing something. I think it just provide a false sense of security.

If your gun in not kept in a safe locked place, anybody can take it, your kids, your guests, your significant other. Accidents may happen. If your gun is kept in a safe locked place, you may not have the time to fetch it before a potential attack. 

And how many paranoid people shot people for no reasons? Falsely thinking they were thieves?

Anyway, I'm not planning to live in U.S. you do as you want, just don't forget to put bulletproof walls all around your country


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## Mink777 (Jun 1, 2017)

Aniko said:


> What if they threaten you with your own gun? What are the chances that you have your gun in your hand and ready to shoot the moment they attack you? You may be sleeping when that happens, or in the shower, or in the garden doing something. I think it just provide a false sense of security.
> 
> If your gun in not kept in a safe locked place, anybody can take it, your kids, your guests, your significant other. Accidents may happen. If your gun is kept in a safe locked place, you may not have the time to fetch it before a potential attack.
> 
> ...



Don't even get me started with the "what if's." Rich people probably would not need guns because they can afford there high tech security systems. But if you can't afford any of that stuff then a gun is your main source of protection. Getting RID of guns will only make the situation worse. If guns do get banned one day, the magical security guys will take all the guns from the people who are actually trying to protect themselves while the thieves will find some secret place to hide it. And then, more innocent people will die.


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## Ichiban (Jun 1, 2017)

I'm fine with guns, but I'm not fine with how some people choose to use them.


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## xSuperMario64x (Jun 1, 2017)

Methinks this thread is asking for trouble xDDD


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## Soda Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

xSuperMario64x said:


> Methinks this thread is asking for trouble xDDD



It's been very civil so far I'm happy to say.  And also thanks to everyone who's been sharing their opinions and being understanding of others!


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## xSuperMario64x (Jun 1, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> It's been very civil so far I'm happy to say.  And also thanks to everyone who's been sharing their opinions and being understanding of others!



Yeah. I'm just thinking I know how immature some people have been in the last couple of months on threads like this. Let's just hope it doesn't get too bad.


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## Bowie (Jun 1, 2017)

I'm not against guns. What I'm against is how easy it is to obtain them.

I believe that guns should only be given to people who have a legitimate reason to, and they should have to write down what they intend to use it for and where they will store it, etc. I also believe that any sort of criminal record should abolish your chances of getting a gun.

EDIT: Also "to hunt" is not a valid reason and should probably abolish all chances of you ever getting a gun ever.


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## Soda Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

Bowie said:


> I'm not against guns. What I'm against is how easy it is to obtain them.
> 
> I believe that guns should only be given to people who have a legitimate reason to, and they should have to write down what they intend to use it for and where they will store it, etc. I also believe that any sort of criminal record should abolish your chances of getting a gun.



IMO writing down where it will be kept will only let that info fall into the wrong hands but I otherwise agree with you.


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## Soraru (Jun 1, 2017)

nah. im not into guns. too much responsibility and seriousness goes with a gun. its built to kill stuff. shooting for sport are things like paintball and airsoft where those things aren't built for the purpose to kill, built for splatting paint on yer butt. and alot of people have the arrogance to think they can handle a legit, serious gun. playing around with life and death because they associate the same gun that shoots bullets, to sport as a game. maybe others see it for pride, comfort, sport, whatever. thats them.


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## Soot Sprite (Jun 1, 2017)

If they are legal owned and used for defense and not with the intent to harm someone I don't have a problem with guns. That being said, I have no desire to own a gun, but I'm not going to stop someone else from having one. 

I don't really agree with going out and killing animals just for the fun of it though. If you're eating it, that's different but I don't see the point of killing something just to kill it. If you want to shoot something go to a shooting range imo.


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## Hellfish (Jun 2, 2017)

I don't mind guns for hunting or sporting purposes but for safety it's absolutely stupid and hypocritical. I live in New Zealand and the amount of armed robberies is quite low due to our gun laws (And our lower population ofc.). If you think the best way to stop armed people is by giving the general population guns then you truly can't comprehend the big picture. If you want to stop someone robbing your house then getting a firearm to potentially harm/kill/threaten the intruder puts you in no better position then someone else wielding a weapon.

The problem with overseas countries and firearms is that even changing the rules won't help because there's so many guns already in circulation and any attempts to thin this out will inevitably end in bloodshed because of this fear that they've all been raised with.

Living where I do I truly pity anyone who lives in a country with lots of firearms, as I see you never getting out of that cycle 

- - - Post Merge - - -



Alien51 said:


> Don't even get me started with the "what if's." Rich people probably would not need guns because they can afford there high tech security systems. But if you can't afford any of that stuff then a gun is your main source of protection. Getting RID of guns will only make the situation worse. If guns do get banned one day, the magical security guys will take all the guns from the people who are actually trying to protect themselves while the thieves will find some secret place to hide it. And then, more innocent people will die.



You do not need a gun to protect yourself. Those magical security people are the police and SWAT (or in NZ we call them the armed offenders squad) and if your countries didn't have firearms in the first place then there wouldn't be as much armed crime.

Taking away guns does not prevent crime and never will but having a gun doesn't do anything except make people on edge and paranoid. Sadly it sounds like your in a place where your stuck in a cycle and I feel horribly sorry for you, if only you could experience a life without fearing crime 

Where I live a crime may be committed but in the end the police sort it out and the criminals don't (generally) have guns because they're much harder to get here.


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## Hellfish (Jun 2, 2017)

Also I'm sorry if I've offended anyone by what I said. I have a strong opinion when it comes to firearms as I'm sick and tired of seeing US shootings on the news 

(Not just in the US too)


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## Mink777 (Jun 2, 2017)

I could hear gunshots all the time where I used to live, but that was old Mr. McPhee who was a farmer nearby who always practiced his gun. The Magical Security people shut his farm down a few months after we moved unfortunately.


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## ZagZig321 (Jun 2, 2017)

I feel pretty fearful of guns. I've also lived in the US all my life and I've heard gunshots on random nights though pretty often. I lived close to Chicago for most of my life though, a place where there is A LOT of violence some gun and some not. I think guns are just one way to enact violence. There are plently of other ways people can find to do what they're set out to do. Whether it's protect their family and property to gang and police violence.


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## KaydeeKrunk (Jun 2, 2017)

I'm not a fan of guns at all, too much death too readily, literally day before last a girl (20yo) got shot by her father right down the street from me. I live in a pretty nice area so it was surprising to say the least. I don't think much good comes from guns so I am against them. When we were given the right to bear arms it was for crappy pistols that took a really long time to load so yeah... I don't know. Not a fan of guns.


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## visibleghost (Jun 2, 2017)

piichinu said:


> non u wont go to the us because youre unreasonably paranoid lol



and it isnt unreasonably paranoid to own 3 guns in case some Evil Murderer breaks into your house and tries to kill you..?

- - - Post Merge - - -



Alien51 said:


> Well how secure would you feel if someone marched into your house with a gun and threatened to steal everything?



i hate when people say that they beed more guns because everyone else has so many guns. wouldnt it be a lot smarter to stop most people feom having guns instead of having everyone buy one (this making ppl feel more unsafe and get More guns and then people feel more unsafe and...)


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## forestyne (Jun 2, 2017)

it's not a hard concept to grasp that if you take away guns from criminals, there is no need for civilians to have guns to have some sense of security. if there are no guns to begin with, no gun crimes take place and you don't need guns to defend yourself.

why even have a functioning report button


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## Pyoopi (Jun 2, 2017)

I think I'm a bit neutral on guns. I think it's really a tough thing to take a stance on. 

First, I wish semi automatic assault guns were banned from the general public to buy. I don't care if you're a gun collector, if you WERE in the military/army. What do you need that for? That should only be for active people on duty. Civilians do not need that type of gun to protect themselves. I think gun permits fees should be one universal price. A very high universal price. You can see that prices (in 2013) range in the USA. 

I don't like big-game hunting. I remember THIS (tw: dead animals) story caused a firestorm. I absolutely loathe it. I do think that _normal_ hunting is fine. Like hunters that actually will eat the animal they kill. 

My household owns gun. It's just a typical black gun. We live in a nice middle class neighborhood. But guess what? We had a motherf-.. murderer living in our neighborhood. He killed a little girl that lived in the neighborhood behind our home. That was 16 years ago. You can live anywhere, the most safest neighborhood but you don't know _all_ your neighbors. My dad *waved *to the guy every time we drove by. Now he's on death row. &#55357;&#56898; 

People who live in rural and/or woodsy areas? Yeah, I'd definitely get a gun. Read LetsNotMeet on Reddit. People are scary. I know there's other defense weapons; my mom has an aluminum baseball bat near her bed. I've purchased pepper spray and looked into getting a taser. If someone did break into our house; I probably wouldn't reach for that gun and just bar myself in a room calling 911. We aren't all bad ass gunslingers that we believe to be.  

I can't give an absolute solution on how guns should be managed. I think gun restrictions are needed but will it hurt or help? Or do nothing. I don't know. It's a tough thing to tackle.


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## Bowie (Jun 2, 2017)

I didn't think hunting was related to this topic but I guess I'll jump in on that side of things.

I am personally completely and utterly against killing anything for any unnecessary reason, and while that's a controversial opinion in its own right, I think that hunting is the most pointless, unnecessary, and frankly disgusting way a human being can spend their time. To call killing a sport is just beyond me totally, and the fact people see it as some kind of ancient tradition to be proud of only further demonstrates how backwards we still are.

So, with that in mind, my original point still stands. In the world we live in, where unfortunately there are bad people in the world, people should have the right to have a gun to protect themselves, but it should be so much harder than it is right now to get them, and if you want one, playing around with one and killing innocent creatures should not be considered a valid reason, ever.


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## Hellfish (Jun 2, 2017)

Bowie said:


> I didn't think hunting was related to this topic but I guess I'll jump in on that side of things.
> 
> I am personally completely and utterly against killing anything for any unnecessary reason, and while that's a controversial opinion in its own right, I think that hunting is the most pointless, unnecessary, and frankly disgusting way a human being can spend their time. To call killing a sport is just beyond me totally, and the fact people see it as some kind of ancient tradition to be proud of only further demonstrates how backwards we still are.
> 
> So, with that in mind, my original point still stands. In the world we live in, where unfortunately there are bad people in the world, people should have the right to have a gun to protect themselves, but it should be so much harder than it is right now to get them, and if you want one, playing around with one and killing innocent creatures should not be considered a valid reason, ever.



If there was someone assaulting your house you'd shoot them?

Maybe we should just all have tazers, the chance of them killing someone is low and it's not like you can commit much crimes with one ^-^


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## Mu~ (Jun 2, 2017)

Hellfish said:


> If there was someone assaulting your house you'd shoot them?


I don't know why people are so paranoid about others breaking into their houses, only 1 time someone tried to break into my house and the alarm scared them away. After that, it never happened again.


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## Holly... (Jun 2, 2017)

Mu~ said:


> I don't know why people are so paranoid about others breaking into their houses, only 1 time someone tried to break into my house and the alarm scared them away. After that, it never happened again.



I agree. Idk about the US, but in my area (middle-class Australia, btw) most people have alarms, security cameras, etc. The only guns I've seen is on police officers. I've never heard of anyone owning a gun before, it just seems insanely scary to me. 

I didn't realise you were allowed to hunt animals, either. The first I've heard about it is from this thread. That seems a bit odd to me but I don't know much about it so it's not really my place to judge.


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## visibleghost (Jun 2, 2017)

Pyoopi said:


> My household owns gun. It's just a typical black gun. We live in a nice middle class neighborhood. But guess what? We had a motherf-.. murderer living in our neighborhood. He killed a little girl that lived in the neighborhood behind our home. That was 16 years ago. You can live anywhere, the most safest neighborhood but you don't know _all_ your neighbors. My dad *waved* to the guy every time we drove by. Now he's on death row.



should the little girl have had a gun so she could have killed him in self defense? lmao i get that it would be nice to be able to go out and shoot someone who was in the middle of murdering your kid but like....... that's not a very realistic thing that would happen??? and the police is for dealing with crime.
 if they have a gun anyone can go outside and kill people much more easily than if they don't have a gun.

it sucks that someone was murdered but it doesn't justify that everyone in the usa has the right to have a gun. if it is more difficult to kill someone less people will be killed. of course there will always be some murders but guns are made to kill with (unlike ropes, knives, cars etc.) and i don't get why it should be legal to own something that is only used to hurt and kill living stuff. 
the whole thing is like saying "murder is bad but you all have a right to own and carry around a tool made for murder have fun everyone !!! :')" and that's not very Intellectual .


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## Soda Fox (Jun 2, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> should the little girl have had a gun so she could have killed him in self defense? lmao i get that it would be nice to be able to go out and shoot someone who was in the middle of murdering your kid but like....... that's not a very realistic thing that would happen??? and the police is for dealing with crime.
> if they have a gun anyone can go outside and kill people much more easily than if they don't have a gun.
> 
> it sucks that someone was murdered but it doesn't justify that everyone in the usa has the right to have a gun. if it is more difficult to kill someone less people will be killed. of course there will always be some murders but guns are made to kill with (unlike ropes, knives, cars etc.) and i don't get why it should be legal to own something that is only used to hurt and kill living stuff.
> the whole thing is like saying "murder is bad but you all have a right to own and carry around a tool made for murder have fun everyone !!! :')" and that's not very Intellectual .



I'm going to say this again but an outright gun ban in the US will only mean many many years of bloodshed. What we need is a gradual tightening, again ideally register guns and bullets to the people purchasing them so anyone who tries to sell it to a criminal is still responsible for any crime committed with that gun, and once the guns that are out there are limited more to those that are responsible and less to those that are not responsible with their gun, we can think about a ban. But in the mean time responsible people need to be able to defend themselves and, assuming the police aren't bought off by criminals, police response takes time and a criminal with a gun and citizens without would mean the criminal can kill a lot of people before the police show up. Even one responsible citizen with a gun in the area can end the situation much more quickly.


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## Pyoopi (Jun 2, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> should the little girl have had a gun so she could have killed him in self defense? lmao i get that it would be nice to be able to go out and shoot someone who was in the middle of murdering your kid but like....... that's not a very realistic thing that would happen??? and the police is for dealing with crime.
> if they have a gun anyone can go outside and kill people much more easily than if they don't have a gun.
> 
> it sucks that someone was murdered but it doesn't justify that everyone in the usa has the right to have a gun. if it is more difficult to kill someone less people will be killed. of course there will always be some murders but guns are made to kill with (unlike ropes, knives, cars etc.) and i don't get why it should be legal to own something that is only used to hurt and kill living stuff.
> the whole thing is like saying "murder is bad but you all have a right to own and carry around a tool made for murder have fun everyone !!! :')" and that's not very Intellectual .



Thanks for cherry picking friend. You kind of missed the whole point. I'm saying wealthy neighborhoods are assumed to be safe. That isn't the case. It's not about the child having a gun. What?? I didn't even say that. 

If you read my next paragraph, I even said as a gun owner, I wouldn't even reach my for my own gun if someone had broke into my house. Flight, Fight and Freeze take ahold of a person differently​.


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## Alienfish (Jun 2, 2017)

No.. just don't make everyone have a gun randomly. Not only because peace n love and stuff but yeah I bet most people having them are obviously not mentally ready to have one. 

I'm glad you're not allowed here unless you have a license for guns used for hunting.


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## Hellfish (Jun 2, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> I'm going to say this again but an outright gun ban in the US will only mean many many years of bloodshed. What we need is a gradual tightening, again ideally register guns and bullets to the people purchasing them so anyone who tries to sell it to a criminal is still responsible for any crime committed with that gun, and once the guns that are out there are limited more to those that are responsible and less to those that are not responsible with their gun, we can think about a ban. But in the mean time responsible people need to be able to defend themselves and, assuming the police aren't bought off by criminals, police response takes time and a criminal with a gun and citizens without would mean the criminal can kill a lot of people before the police show up. Even one responsible citizen with a gun in the area can end the situation much more quickly.



I completely agree with your first statement regarding slowly taking away firearms. If there was an outright ban there'd be a civil war, I remember watching doomsday prepers on discovery channel (or was it nat geo?) And this American guy had an explosive proof walk in vault containing an armory of more then 50 guns (That's an under estimate too). He literally said to the camera "if cops try to take my guns I'll shoot them down", so yeah an outright ban is a horrible idea.

On the contrary your second comment about gunmen/murders and civs using guns to stop it, the amount of times I hear of a shooting in the US it's ALWAYS stopped by the cops so don't bs and say regular civilians need them for protection it's just feeding the initial problem. To justify this statement and provide a counter argument towards your comment on corrupt cops, put yourself is an officers shoes, if every citizen could be carrying a gun ready to kill you, you're damn right and justified to be paranoid if you need to take legal action against them.

Break the cycle, use tasers ^-^

EDIT: also those cops shooting black skinned people etc. They wouldn't have the need to carry firearms if everyone didn't carry in the first place, our cops in NZ only carry batons and tazers, they only ever deploy with a gun if it's called in and in those situations the armed offenders squad normally respond. Unfortunately you will always have corrupt and racist cops, but removing guns from the equation means they'll have less means to cause harm.


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## Mink777 (Jun 2, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> and it isnt unreasonably paranoid to own 3 guns in case some Evil Murderer breaks into your house and tries to kill you..?
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



My point being is, people will still have guns even if they do stop selling them. If guns are taken away, but the thieves manage to hide them, what are you going to protect yourself with when they show up at your house? That would certainly make me feel more unsafe then before.

It sucks that we don't live in La La Land where every single gun in the world can magically vanish and we don't have to worry about anything, but that is and will never be the case because some people are just mentally insane.


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## visibleghost (Jun 2, 2017)

Alien51 said:


> My point being is, people will still have guns even if they do stop selling them. If guns are taken away, but the thieves manage to hide them, what are you going to protect yourself with when they show up at your house? That would certainly make me feel more unsafe then before.
> 
> It sucks that we don't live in La La Land where every single gun in the world can magically vanish and we don't have to worry about anything, but that is and will never be the case because some people are just mentally insane.



yeah im not saying that you should make guns illegal over a day bc that'd obviously not work. idk exactly how you should solve that issue but it isnt a good idea to sell more guns and i think it would be good if people were educated about gun violence and if the police was more effective (so that not as many would want/feel the need to get a gun)

if theyd make guns illegal the government and police would definitely have to put in extra resources so they could stop as many gun crimes as possible lmao.


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## helenkeller (Jun 2, 2017)

I feel the same way. I feel safer knowing there is weapons around me. I myself have knives since I am not old enough for a conceal carry. I've shot my dads guns before though in my backyard (its acres long since I live in the country so it was safe) and I definitely want one when I am 21.


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## visibleghost (Jun 2, 2017)

helenkeller said:


> I feel the same way. I feel safer knowing there is weapons around me. I myself have knives since I am not old enough for a conceal carry. I've shot my dads guns before though in my backyard (its acres long since I live in the country so it was safe) and I definitely want one when I am 21.



do you feel safe knowing that many other people have guns and other weapons? like, anyone you meet could have a gun, doesnt that make you feel unsafe


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## deSPIRIA (Jun 2, 2017)

if my dad or mom owned a gun, i would get really paranoid and probably break it because of delusions
that being said, i dont want a gun and if i feel like i need something i bring a knife just in case


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## visibleghost (Jun 2, 2017)

Ashvenn said:


> if my dad or mom owned a gun, i would get really paranoid and probably break it because of delusions
> that being said, i dont want a gun and if i feel like i need something i bring a knife just in case



wait is it legal to just go out w a knife for self defense where u live? sounds kinda weird


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## deSPIRIA (Jun 2, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> wait is it legal to just go out w a knife for self defense where u live? sounds kinda weird



ah i didnt mean it like that. i just meant if i had a legitimate reason to defend myself in my house (lets say someone was breaking in) i would carry a knife and lock whatever is close to me. i would probably feel really guilty for the rest of my life if i killed someone even in self defense


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## visibleghost (Jun 2, 2017)

Ashvenn said:


> ah i didnt mean it like that. i just meant if i had a legitimate reason to defend myself in my house (lets say someone was breaking in) i would carry a knife and lock whatever is close to me. i would probably feel really guilty for the rest of my life if i killed someone even in self defense



oh okay lol then i get it. i kinda imagined that when u went out at night you brought a knife w you 4 safety so it kinda confused me


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## watercolorwish (Jun 2, 2017)

yes guns are fun but like some people said we shoot them at ranges so they're completely safe and only shoot objects not people. and i mean in hunting as long as you actually eat the animal i think its fine its nature. i have no fear of other people having guns on them though if anything it makes me feel safe


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## forestyne (Jun 2, 2017)

Ashvenn said:


> ah i didnt mean it like that. i just meant if i had a legitimate reason to defend myself in my house (lets say someone was breaking in) i would carry a knife and lock whatever is close to me. i would probably feel really guilty for the rest of my life if i killed someone even in self defense



i nearly killed someone and i think about it every day. i think it's so unlikely that you'll instantly think to go and shoot someone during a break-in, you might not even have access to the part of the house you're storing the gun in. obviously you can think that if it makes you feel better, but flight or fight is a legitimate thing. killing someone, even in self defense, isn't something to take lightly _at all_.


* they're fine btw and i didn't even mean to hurt them. not an ice cold killa, just a clutz

- - - Post Merge - - -

i think a good start to getting rid of guns would be to stop selling them outright. then, government cracks down on people who illegally own guns/shouldn't have guns (background checks). THEN, get rid of them outright.


but it's so unlikely that this will ever happen. trump pulled the US out of the Paris Climate Agreement.


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## awesomeelle2001 (Jun 3, 2017)

Guns scare me and I feel uncomfortable being around one. I don't live in America so I can't really have a say in gun control but where I live, guns aren't really a big thing. Still though, I don't live in America so I can't really say.


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## Holly... (Jun 3, 2017)

When guns were first banned in Australia, 650,000 legally, privately-owned guns were peacefully seized basically straight away

But in the US, there are 88 guns per 100 people, so it would definitely be a harder task! But when you look at murder statistics in the US, you realise how outrageous they are in comparison to so many other, gun-less countries.


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## Soda Fox (Jun 3, 2017)

Funnydog890 said:


> lol wut



Can we not give stupid replies like this?  Junk like this is why we can't have decent conversations around here.



visibleghost said:


> do you feel safe knowing that many other people have guns and other weapons? like, anyone you meet could have a gun, doesnt that make you feel unsafe



To answer your question, personally, no I do not feel unsafe knowing most everyone around me has a gun.  Most people are good people, and a lot of them are people I've come to know thought work or just being in the community.  Heck, even being new to the community I just moved to doesn't make me feel unsafe.  Again, because most people are good people not looking to start a fight and will only fight to defend themselves or their families.

**Actually I have to say I feel a little better knowing that people around me have guns.  If one a-hole decides to come to town starting trouble I feel better knowing one of the more numerous good people can step in and put a stop to any wrong doings.


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## helenkeller (Jun 3, 2017)

Just for the record people who are insane, criminals and alllll that good stuff CAN obtain a gun, background check, no background check, CC or no CC.... You can obtain make your own gun kits off the internet. No serial number, no registering, no tracking.....
lol, order it off a pre paid card in a false name, put abandoned house down as shipping address, boom.. nobody will find out you ordered it.

that is why I am getting a conceal carry when I turn 21. 

people kill people not the guns. a bat, a knife, fists, anything can be used to kill somebody.
if you don't like guns--- don't own one. don't ruin it for everyone else. what if you need to protect your family? You really think my german shepherd can take down burglars who have guns themselves? what am I gonna do.. shield shot gun shells with my samurai sword... pllleaaaseeee.... 

sooooo...
my dad/brother/mom are all black belts.
their hands are considered weapons. they can only fight in self defense, like a gun used in self defense. do you think that should be taken away because they have the potential to kill????? 
no? don't take away martial arts and self defense class? lets keep our guns then! (I know people who could kill with one round house kick to the temple.)

I'm not even going to get into all the house hold chemicals and utensils just ANYBODY even a felon can buy.

bleach, shovel, bat, rope, anti freeze, kitchen knives, saws used for sawing wood.... 
gtfo with that gun control bs.... right to bear arms.


adding this:
guns are also wonderful for deer hunting... deer are so over populated here, its much more humane to shoot some deer and bring down animal populations so they don't starve to death.


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## forestyne (Jun 3, 2017)

helenkeller said:


> Just for the record people who are insane, criminals and alllll that good stuff CAN obtain a gun, background check, no background check, CC or no CC.... You can obtain make your own gun kits off the internet. No serial number, no registering, no tracking.....
> lol, order it off a pre paid card in a false name, put abandoned house down as shipping address, boom.. nobody will find out you ordered it.
> 
> that is why I am getting a conceal carry when I turn 21.
> ...



you make it sound like guns are toys.

it's not humane at all to shoot and kill deer in its own habitat.


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## helenkeller (Jun 3, 2017)

They're not toys?...... That's why you cannot legally own one unless you're twenty one. People my age literally shoot for sport all the time. Not even animals, targets, practice incase emergency strikes. I don't know where you got the "guns are toys" part from? I never said that. And never made to seem like they were? They COULD be though, I mean they make BB guns that are projected towards kids? I had one as a kid. And no, I'm still not saying they're toys.

Do you know where I live? A deer literally came up to me (I have photo proof as well) because they are so over populated. It literally acted like a DOG because it was around people too much. Deer around here are always walking in main streets, getting hit, and destroying peoples cars because they're over populated.  I. WAS. THRUSTED. BY. THAT. DEER. what if that was a toddler instead of me? because lots of children live in that area where I was, they had to stay inside because it wasn't safe for the babies to play! The deer had no ill intent, I even tried to get it put into deer sanctuaries, but the laws prohibited it from being allowed! So someone eventually shot him for getting TOO CLOSE for it to still be safe. (Rip Elliot. yes, I named it.)

I love animals, I shed a tear every time I see one die.  But that is food for some people. Deer meat feeds families through out the whole winter... That is putting thousands of over populated starving animals out of misery! I'm not going to preach the don't kill an animal speech because people aren't going to change their views because someone online doesn't agree with it. Why does every right have to be eliminated instead of compromise? Isn't America supposed to be a free country?

Coyotes also come in my yard during broad daylight. I have a dog, my neighbors have dogs, my other neighbors own chickens and have children, and always have other peoples children over. 

I live in the country. MY HOME IS THEIR HABITAT. WE DON'T JUST KILL THEM FOR NO GOOD REASON.. MOST PEOPLE WHO HUNT ACTUALLY HATE PEOPLE WHO SHOOT ANIMALS JUST FOR SPORT

also

Ducks and turkey literally walk across the streets where I live. We're definitely not just walking into the woods and shooting deer or any other game as we please.. they announce how many deer (and any other animal) are allowed to be hunted for that season. our areas are well monitored, if you hunt without a license, fish without a license, or any of that sorts, you will be fined. driving though some places, they search your car and ask for it. or they'll look you up in the system. 

We are all raised with different upbringings so don't say what is right or wrong for some people.....


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## forestyne (Jun 3, 2017)

helenkeller said:


> They're not toys?...... That's why you cannot legally own one unless you're twenty one. People my age literally shoot for sport all the time. Not even animals, targets, practice incase emergency strikes. I don't know where you got the "guns are toys" part from? I never said that. And never made to seem like they were? They COULD be though, I mean they make BB guns that are projected towards kids? I had one as a kid. And no, I'm still not saying they're toys.



No, I know you didn't say they were toys, but the way you said "don't ruin it for everyone else" made it sound like having a gun was like having a hip new toy, when guns are extremely serious weapons with the capability of killing people.

And I get that animals like deer and rabbit are food for some people, but before we came and cut down the forests and stuff, animals lived there, so (at least in my opinion) we shouldn't be shooting animals that have no choice but to co-exist in the same space as us because of what people have done.


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## Ghost Soda (Jun 3, 2017)

Also lol @ "don't ruin it for everyone else." Guns are literally tools for hurting/killing people. If little Jimmy wants to shoot something so bad, get him a water gun or a copy of Modern Warfare or something. :U


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## forestyne (Jun 3, 2017)

Ghost Soda said:


> Also lol @ "don't ruin it for everyone else." Guns are literally tools for hurting/killing people. If little Jimmy wants to shoot something so bad, get him a water gun or a copy of Modern Warfare or something. :U



Yeah, get your kids Nerf guns or something. Don't promote guns to your kids by letting them shoot rifles at, like 13 years old. That's really bad parenting imo.


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## helenkeller (Jun 3, 2017)

Yeah, ruining it for other people is a good way to describe it. Some people have no choice but to carry a gun with them while walking down the street so they don't get shot. My neighbor knocked on my door and asked my dad to bring his gun and check her house for her because her door was open. They make some people feel secure knowing there is some type of defense mechanism if something bad happens. You don't even need to kill people with a gun, just shoot them in the leg or something. Sometimes that isn't always doable depending on your gun skills though...

I understand that animals habitats are being destroyed. I don't agree with that. There's enough abandoned houses in the united states to house every person who is homeless, comfortably for that matter. Whether we live in houses, or just in nature the way it was thousands of years ago, we would still be killing animals. It goes way back.


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## Ghost Soda (Jun 3, 2017)

But... if nobody has guns... you don't need to defend yourself from being shot...


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## Soda Fox (Jun 3, 2017)

Ghost Soda said:


> But... if nobody has guns... you don't need to defend yourself from being shot...



Except guns will always exist so someone or a group of someones will always have them. Whether it's the gang that lives neatest by or the government who wants to force you into a role you dont believe in since the technology exists someone somewhere will have the capacity to use it. So our argument is to let even the worse of us have that same access.

I'm surprised this topic is making me even more pro gun.


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## forestyne (Jun 3, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> Except guns will always exist so someone or a group of someones will always have them. Whether it's the gang that lives neatest by or the government who wants to force you into a role you dont believe in since the technology exists someone somewhere will have the capacity to use it. So our argument is to let even the worse of us have that same access.
> 
> I'm surprised this topic is making me even more pro gun.



Remove all guns = no need for guns. When you completely remove guns, there will be no need for guns.

- - - Post Merge - - -

NOBODY SHOULD HAVE GUNS AT ALL.


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## Soda Fox (Jun 3, 2017)

forestyne said:


> Remove all guns = no need for guns. When you completely remove guns, there will be no need for guns.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> NOBODY SHOULD HAVE GUNS AT ALL.



Which would be great, but again,  because the knowledge of the technology exists someone will be able to make guns and sell them to others illegallly. Prohibition failed for the very same reason. The war on drugs is failing for the very same reason.


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## helenkeller (Jun 3, 2017)

Do you not know that the average time for an ambulance to arrive is 7-10 minutes? That is enough time for someone to kill me before help arrives. Am I supposed to let someone take my gift of life, when the situation could be prevented just by the privilege of OWNING a gun? I don't even have to use it. It is just nice to have.

If  "little jimmy" wants to just "shoot something so bad" maybe his parents should get his brain scanned and keep the guns away because he obviously isn't mature enough yet...

And I guess my dad is a bad parent for letting me shoot off a gun to a target then? I wasn't harming anybody, I didn't hurt anybody or effect their life in any way. Because I was in my back yard lmao. If a child thinks that way then it is the parents fault for raising the child to have a thought process that heinous. Nobody is like that for no reason. Guns cant be to blame when the people who are aware of their actions are behind the gun pulling the trigger.

society is making everyone overly sensitive as time passes by. you can kill somebody with things you can buy at Walmart. the guns cause violence claim is irrelevant its people who are violent...

if someone was to kill me id rather be shot than stabbed, poisoned by somebody, or beaten with a bat or shovel, or strangled to death...

just because someone doesn't agree with this, doesn't mean it should be illegal, or that its wrong, or people just want to shoot... that's a stereotype. and it needs to stop. 

 I know people who fell victim to violence and a gun could have saved their life... I REFUSE to become a victim.


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## forestyne (Jun 3, 2017)

helenkeller said:


> Do you not know that the average time for an ambulance to arrive is 7-10 minutes? That is enough time for someone to kill me before help arrives. Am I supposed to let someone take my gift of life, when the situation could be prevented just by the privilege of OWNING a gun? I don't even have to use it. It is just nice to have.
> 
> If  "little jimmy" wants to just "shoot something so bad" maybe his parents should get his brain scanned and keep the guns away because he obviously isn't mature enough yet...
> 
> ...



but you wouldn't become a victim if people didn't have guns, that's what we're saying. more guns will not save your life when guns are the real problem.

- - - Post Merge - - -

more guns will not end gun violence.


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## helenkeller (Jun 3, 2017)

Someone I am very close to lost a loved one due to violence. And guess what, a gun is NOT what killed her. She was stabbed to death. With a knife any person can go to the store and buy! What don't you get, banning guns wont stop violence! It will always exist. Guns wont help stop it either! I never said that! It is something people should have incase someone tries to hurt them. Don't even say that wouldn't happen if guns didn't exist. Someone local who is almost my age is in jail for attempted murder, he stomped the poor boys head in the concrete and left him there to die! He didn't have a gun on him! Just him, his buddies, and their two feet. All over forty flippin dollars... they did that to the poor kid for FORTY DOLLARS... while they flash their Gucci belts they're trying to steal a 15 year olds allowance for what though? weed? pills? vodka? you must not know how crazy people can get?

My brother is a black belt. My dad is an EIGHTH DEGREE BLACK BELT. Do you know that one full forced round house or superman punch can kill someone instantly with blunt force trauma? Does that mean it should be illegal too? come on now... 

You don't seem to get what I'm saying... You don't need to be threatened with a gun to fall victim to somebody....


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## moonford (Jun 4, 2017)

helenkeller said:


> Someone I am very close to lost a loved one due to violence. And guess what, a gun is NOT what killed her. She was stabbed to death. With a knife any person can go to the store and buy! *What don't you get, banning guns wont stop violence!* It will always exist. Guns wont help stop it either! I never said that! It is something people should have incase someone tries to hurt them. Don't even say that wouldn't happen if guns didn't exist. Someone local who is almost my age is in jail for attempted murder, he stomped the poor boys head in the concrete and left him there to die! He didn't have a gun on him! Just him, his buddies, and their two feet. All over forty flippin dollars... they did that to the poor kid for FORTY DOLLARS... while they flash their Gucci belts they're trying to steal a 15 year olds allowance for what though? weed? pills? vodka? you must not know how crazy people can get?
> 
> My brother is a black belt. My dad is an EIGHTH DEGREE BLACK BELT. Do you know that one full forced round house or superman punch can kill someone instantly with blunt force trauma? Does that mean it should be illegal too? *come on now... *
> 
> You don't seem to get what I'm saying... You don't need to be threatened with a gun to fall victim to somebody....



I felt like the sentences I highlighted were rude, calm down a bit. This is how flame wars start, lol.

To that first paragraph:

What about the people who are killed by guns in the US? There are tens of thousands who die per year because of these things, yes people will still die because of guns but it the amount of deaths would drop drastically because like many people have said "there are good people and there are bad people", people may die because of guns unintentionally whereas you can't abuse or stab some directly and say "oh, woopsies sorry I didn't see you even when you were right there", this is because a gun is a long range weapon but your fists and feet are close range as are knives, mistakes happen and there is no mistake with close ranged weapons.

Violence will never end, never, that is true but the amount of deaths by gun will decrease.

To the second paragraph:

Yeah your brother and father should be thrown into prison if they start abusing people randomly, people should be thrown into prison if they harm another person intentionally, it has always been that way. However your brother and father and many people just like them are good people who follow the law and will only use there fists, feet and so on if needed, correct? I am aware that what you described can happen, in fact it happened recently to a family friend however it isn't as likely and will not happen unless that person did it intentionally. Guns can kill people intentionally or not, you can't get into a fight without the intent to harm, my family friend got into a fight with another family friend, family friend 2 aimed at him, hit him and killed him with one punch, that was an accident of course, but the fight wasn't and he has been thrown into prison anyway. 

To the last paragraph:

No, you should, you can never trust people and people are the ones who pull the trigger however guns are the equipment specifically designed to murder or injure people beyond repair. Guns just add to peoples fears, yes knives are scary, peoples fists are scary and the scariest of them all are guns because guns kill more people annually, a lot more. People are afraid and opposed to them because they are so easily accessible and can fall into the wrong hands easily, nobody can be trusted and that alone is something to fear because some random person on the street could kill you, that person may take your life by beating, stabbing and the most likely...shooting you with a gun, you may survive the first two although it is unlikely but a gun will definitely kill you, there is a tiny chance you can survive a shot to the head or chest.


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## visibleghost (Jun 4, 2017)

another thing lol. guns are often used for suicides and While there obviously are other ways to kill urself suicide is very opportunity basedand if someone doesnt have a gun under the pillow it wont be as easy and they might get help and b like Wow I Sure Am Glad Im Not Dead.
like, it can b very impulsive and if you cant (or it is kinda difficult to) act on the impulse the urge often fades away after a while lol and they might get help and whatever so yay less guns hopefully less suicide



helenkeller said:


> Someone I am very close to lost a loved one due to violence. And guess what, a gun is NOT what killed her. She was stabbed to death. With a knife any person can go to the store and buy! What don't you get, banning guns wont stop violence! It will always exist. Guns wont help stop it either! I never said that! It is something people should have incase someone tries to hurt them. Don't even say that wouldn't happen if guns didn't exist. Someone local who is almost my age is in jail for attempted murder, he stomped the poor boys head in the concrete and left him there to die! He didn't have a gun on him! Just him, his buddies, and their two feet. All over forty flippin dollars... they did that to the poor kid for FORTY DOLLARS... while they flash their Gucci belts they're trying to steal a 15 year olds allowance for what though? weed? pills? vodka? you must not know how crazy people can get?
> 
> My brother is a black belt. My dad is an EIGHTH DEGREE BLACK BELT. Do you know that one full forced round house or superman punch can kill someone instantly with blunt force trauma? Does that mean it should be illegal too? come on now...
> 
> You don't seem to get what I'm saying... You don't need to be threatened with a gun to fall victim to somebody....



no one's saying that guns are the only thing that can hurt others are you even reading what people have been writing lmao. but guns wont stop violence, they only make it worse. by removing guns gun violence will decrease.
 just because people will always have other ways to kill each other doesnt mean that we shouldnt try to stop it. if we can stop people getting murdered w guns that's great but you make it sound like it's all or nothing and that unless people never do bad stuff everything we do to stop violence is meaningless

guns have no other uses than to hurt and kill. knives have other uses and it is illegal to have or use knives as weapons, in my country therems a knife law that says you aren't allowed to carry a knife around with you in public So if someone's visibly having a knife on them the police can stop them n be like Yo Dont. (obviously you can brimg your newly bought knife home but the law makes it illegal to carry around knives for no reason or w/e idrk exactly what it says but it doesnt rly affect people who have good reasons to have a knife on them)
guns make killing a lot easier, sure people can stab someone or strangle them or beat them to death but a gun is much easier to use and cause serious injuries with, especially bc of the range n stuff.


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## carp (Jun 4, 2017)

non merci!!!!!!


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## Soda Fox (Jun 4, 2017)

I totally agree with Helen. I'm pretty tough for a lady but I'm still no match against most men. Even with pepperspray I don't doubt if a bigger man wanted to hurt or kill me he definitely could. With a gun I can shoot that man. I feel much safer carrying a gun and not being a victim.


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## visibleghost (Jun 4, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> I totally agree with Helen. I'm pretty tough for a lady but I'm still no match against most men. Even with pepperspray I don't doubt if a bigger man wanted to hurt or kill me he definitely could. With a gun I can shoot that man. I feel much safer carrying a gun and not being a victim.



i get that it can feel safe o have a gun if youre weaker than most other people but just bc youre scared doesnt mean that you should get to carry around a deadly weapon with you for protection


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## Weiland (Jun 4, 2017)

I can see why people are pro-gun but at least make sure you need to go through a lengthy process to get your gun licence. And make sure people are at least limited to semi-automatics instead of automatics. Then there's the mass shooting scenarios -- a lot of teen shooters get their guns from their parents. I personally believe that if you have a gun around a mentally ill child/adolescent, you should have to give it up or at least make sure you lock it up. Australia has great gun laws in comparison to American gun laws. No mass shootings (that I'm aware of) since 1996, and that's because of how strict our gun laws are. America's government needs to restrict their citizens. 
"muh gun rightz" Shut up. Mentally ill people are able to get their hands on firearms, and why is that? Because of the lack of restrictions.

That being said, people will always find a way to harm someone else even without firearms. 
(sorry if I went off track a bit; I'm tired).


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## visibleghost (Jun 4, 2017)

helenkeller said:


> Do you not know that the average time for an ambulance to arrive is 7-10 minutes? That is enough time for someone to kill me before help arrives. Am I supposed to let someone take my gift of life, when the situation could be prevented just by the privilege of OWNING a gun? I don't even have to use it. It is just nice to have.
> 
> If  "little jimmy" wants to just "shoot something so bad" maybe his parents should get his brain scanned and keep the guns away because he obviously isn't mature enough yet...
> 
> ...



"the ambulance is taking 7 minutes but thanks to my gun i can kill the person instead :3"
if youre just going to show it off buy a toy gun and paint it lmao.  when people have guns they will hurt people with them. not everyone ovviously but it will happen. 

i think american gun culture is messed up and i really dont understand how anyone can think it is normal and okay to shoot in your own back yard???? so yeah i think your dad is a bad parent because i think that normalizing guns is dangerous. 

sure go ahead and go to walmart and buy something only made to hurt and kill living creatures that has a long range and is very dangerous. lol. you can choke to death one some grapes but if you seriously think choking on fruit and getting shot is compareable im Done. 
if someone didnt have a gun maybe you wouldnt be killed but yeah we definitely need guns so murderers can kill people the way they prefer to be killed.

just because you think murder is wrong doesnt mean that it should be illegal uwu some people shoot to cope ??? ?


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## Soda Fox (Jun 4, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> i get that it can feel safe o have a gun if youre weaker than most other people but just bc youre scared doesnt mean that you should get to carry around a deadly weapon with you for protection



I disagree and luckily I live in the US where my viewpoint is on the side of the law.


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## visibleghost (Jun 4, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> I disagree and luckily I live in the US where my viewpoint is on the side of the law.



you live in a country where the law puts you way more at risk of being shot but okiedokie.


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## Relly (Jun 4, 2017)

I think a lot of our opinions come down to the culture we've been exposed to. To Americans it's normal to have a gun and they are raised in a culture that puts guns as a right. When you grow up outside of that culture it seems peculiar and dangerous to allow so many citizens to have guns.


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## Hellfish (Jun 5, 2017)

After my last comment many pages ago I've given up expressing my logic to the pro gun people. Unfortunately in your countries/place you live you've been indoctrinated into a paranoid state to which you will never break free. If you look at other countries statistics you can clearly see removing guns solves the vast majority of problems. Crime is inevitable, people will always be murdered, robbed and violated as it's a way of modern human life (Unfortunately... ).

The percentage chance for a person to rightly use a firearm in selfdefence is SO MUCH SMALLER then the percentage of people who wrongly use them due to your laws. That is a fact. Period.


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## Lululand (Jun 5, 2017)

Relly said:


> I think a lot of our opinions come down to the culture we've been exposed to. To Americans it's normal to have a gun and they are raised in a culture that puts guns as a right. When you grow up outside of that culture it seems peculiar and dangerous to allow so many citizens to have guns.



Normally I'm all for accepting and celebrating cultural differences, but the fact of the matter is that SOMEONE here is at a much higher risk of getting shot because of where they live... so yeah, not a fan of that tbh


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## Soda Fox (Jun 5, 2017)

I've been on and off trying to find some statistics. I think what we should do is compare both violent crime and gun related crimes in addition seeing what the gun laws are for all the different countries, because the most violent countries I were finding I don't know the lasers for although I've been trying to look into that too. It's just tough at work and on a phone. And on a phone it'll be a huge pain trying to link everything. 

Can someone at a computer with since free time work on this project? (And it really is a project I know I'm sorry!) I'll work on it when I have time. Whoever can post this project will get my next TBT donation whenever I get 100 TBT.


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## visibleghost (Jun 6, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> I've been on and off trying to find some statistics. I think what we should do is compare both violent crime and gun related crimes in addition seeing what the gun laws are for all the different countries, because the most violent countries I were finding I don't know the lasers for although I've been trying to look into that too. It's just tough at work and on a phone. And on a phone it'll be a huge pain trying to link everything.
> 
> Can someone at a computer with since free time work on this project? (And it really is a project I know I'm sorry!) I'll work on it when I have time. Whoever can post this project will get my next TBT donation whenever I get 100 TBT.



nothing anout laws but here's what i found

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1chqUZHuY6cXYrRYkuE0uwXisGaYvr7durZHJhpLGycs/htmlview#gid=0


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## forestyne (Jun 6, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> nothing anout laws but here's what i found
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1chqUZHuY6cXYrRYkuE0uwXisGaYvr7durZHJhpLGycs/htmlview#gid=0



dunno, just looking at that, it says 60% of America's homicides are by firearms

that's, like, a lot :/

mind u albania has a higher percentage, but a far lower ownership of guns statistic. AMERICA REALLY IS NUMBER ONE (AT GUN OWNERSHIP)

- - - Post Merge - - -

i came back to this thread because, unfortunately, there was a mass shooting in florida by a sacked employee of a company, but i see no mention of this tragedy anywhere.


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## forestyne (Jun 6, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> I've been on and off trying to find some statistics. I think what we should do is compare both violent crime and gun related crimes in addition seeing what the gun laws are for all the different countries, because the most violent countries I were finding I don't know the lasers for although I've been trying to look into that too. It's just tough at work and on a phone. And on a phone it'll be a huge pain trying to link everything.
> 
> Can someone at a computer with since free time work on this project? (And it really is a project I know I'm sorry!) I'll work on it when I have time. Whoever can post this project will get my next TBT donation whenever I get 100 TBT.








Courtesy of BBC

Is this the sort of thing you mean?


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## Soda Fox (Jun 6, 2017)

forestyne said:


> Courtesy of BBC
> 
> Is this the sort of thing you mean?



Yes, exactly!  But I wanted more countries in the mix, too.  You my friend get my 100 TBT.

Visibleghosts' link is very interesting, too. So I'll save up some TBT for a smaller donation for that find.  I kinda wish that graph would let you switch it around so it's not just in alphabetical order but you could order it by percentage, or gun ownership, etc.

I just woke up and started looking for statistics so I haven't checked the news yet other than that story.  It really is sad to hear and my dad lives in Florida.  I'm glad he didn't work where that killer worked.


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## Relly (Jun 9, 2017)

Lululand said:


> Normally I'm all for accepting and celebrating cultural differences, but the fact of the matter is that SOMEONE here is at a much higher risk of getting shot because of where they live... so yeah, not a fan of that tbh



Just for the record I am extremely anti guns.


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## Dogemon (Jun 9, 2017)

I own a gun and if you dislike that, that's okay! However, I'm also not going to give it up just because some people don't like it. People who kill others with guns are "criminals" which means they are doing something "illegal". By banning guns and making them illegal as well, you are preventing law-abiding citizens from having guns. Do you really think criminals are not going to just buy one illegally when they already have intent to break the law as it is? Having nothing to defend yourself with at home from home break-ins is dangerous and I'm not going to risk the lives of people I like by not having something I am trained in using. That's all I will say on this subject.


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## Soot Sprite (Jun 9, 2017)

Dogemon said:


> People who kill others with guns are "criminals" which means they are doing something "illegal". By banning guns and making them illegal as well, you are preventing law-abiding citizens from having guns. Do you really think criminals are not going to just buy one illegally when they already have intent to break the law as it is?



Although I'll be the first to admit I don't love guns, this is my way of thinking. We have guns in America now, which means whether or not they're banned we are always going to have guns. If a criminal has a gun and intends to use it for some kind of criminal purpose they're not going to care whether owning or being in poession of a gun is illegal when they're going to be doing something illegal with it in the first place. Banning guns outright won't do anything for the people who aren't going to follow the law either way. 

Instead of banning them just make them much harder to get. A friend of mine had to go through a month (I think) of gun classes and pass a test in a shooting range before she got her gun licence. Someone else I know stole a gun and killed the person who owned it then robbed and shot someone else, and himself accidently. He had no business owning a gun and that proves my point. If someone wants a gun they're going to find a way to get it no matter what, whether it's the right way or the wrong way. Banning them when they're are other ways to get them isn't going to do anything but piss off the people who went about getting them the proper way who are using them for what they were made for, defense.


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## Dogemon (Jun 9, 2017)

Kyoko said:


> Although I'll be the first to admit I don't love guns, this is my way of thinking. We have guns in America now, which means whether or not they're banned we are always going to have guns. If a criminal has a gun and intends to use it for some kind of criminal purpose they're not going to care whether owning or being in poession of a gun is illegal when they're going to be doing something illegal with it in the first place. Banning guns outright won't do anything for the people who aren't going to follow the law either way.
> 
> Instead of banning them just make them much harder to get. A friend of mine had to go through a month (I think) of gun classes and pass a test in a shooting range before she got her gun licence. Someone else I know stole a gun and killed the person who owned it then robbed and shot someone else, and himself accidently. He had no business owning a gun and that proves my point. If someone wants a gun they're going to find a way to get it no matter what, whether it's the right way or the wrong way. Banning them when they're are other ways to get them isn't going to do anything but piss off the people who went about getting them the proper way who are using them for what they were made for, defense.



I completely advocate for tighter laws of guns as well! I also think that gun owners who don't keep their guns locked up properly should face harder penalties. Most gun related crimes are using stolen guns, not by the actual gun owners. I'm kinda embarrassed when I see someone has been injured by a firearm because the owner couldn't be arsed to get any kind of locked safe or cabinet to store it in and it's an accident waiting to happen.


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## visibleghost (Jun 10, 2017)

Dogemon said:


> I own a gun and if you dislike that, that's okay! However, I'm also not going to give it up just because some people don't like it. People who kill others with guns are "criminals" which means they are doing something "illegal". By banning guns and making them illegal as well, you are preventing law-abiding citizens from having guns. Do you really think criminals are not going to just buy one illegally when they already have intent to break the law as it is? Having nothing to defend yourself with at home from home break-ins is dangerous and I'm not going to risk the lives of people I like by not having something I am trained in using. That's all I will say on this subject.



idk if you understand that people who commit crimes and people who dont arent two separate species or whatever..? you cant know who is going to commit a crime with their gun and who is going to use it for "protection" or to shoot at cans because it's fun. sure, with better laws about who is allowed to own a gun a lot of crimes could be stopped but there will always be a bunch of people who aren't seen as bad gun owners but that will use their gun to commit a crime.
when there are that many guns in a country it becomes a natural weapon to use, while in a lot of other countries where guns are a lot more regulated and like no one owns a gun "for protection" guns arent the most used weapon because it is a lot harder to get guns there. like, knife attacks are horrible too of course but knives aren't nearly as deadly and dangerous as guns can be.

another big problem i have w guns in the usa is the gun culture???  it's so weird. why would it ever be your right to shoot someone and why do people think it's ok 2 to have a gun with you in public like?????????????????????????????? 
so many pro gun people are like "it's to protect my family!!!!" well your family is at risk of getting shot but i guess it's all cool if you can shoot the person who shot your kid because that's a lot smarter than not having to be afraid of being shot because it's illegal and difficult to own and carry around a gun in public.

of course illegal guns exist but not as many people who might commit crimes (aka everyone lmao) would own guns if they had to get it illegally. i get that you'd have a hard time getting rid of guns in the us bc of the gun lover culture and paranoia that everyone else is out to ruin ur life and steal ur stuff lmao
honestly there are so many problems in the usa that  are connected to guns and the attitude about guns that makes everything a lot worse and more difficult.
i think the gun situation is partly a result of a lot of other problems you have in the usa and that's a reason to why people feel the need to get guns which leads to people feeling more unsafe, which leads to more people getting guns and so on.... it cant go on like that.


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