# Which Super Smash Bros game do you like best?



## Mayor Puffy (Aug 19, 2013)

Three games out and a fourth one coming out for both 3DS and Wii U. Besides this series being awesome and quite different from your average fighter game, I'm really curious as to how the newest SSB will turn out.

I'm afraid it will be much like Super Smash Bros Brawl which is rather slow-paced compared to Melee, which in my opinion is the best SSB out there. What's your opinion about this awesome game series?


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## Midoriya (Aug 19, 2013)

Brawl; hands down.


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## easpa (Aug 19, 2013)

Brawl, because I really enjoyed the character roster. Plus the Subspace Emissary was pretty fun to play with a friend.


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## Horus (Aug 19, 2013)

Melee. Brawl made me break a GC controller.


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## demoness (Aug 19, 2013)

Mechanically, Melee, as it is one of the most consistent and fluid incarnation of what I call party fighters.  Speaking from nostalgia, 64 and Melee contain my childhood.  I was already 15 when Brawl hit the scene.  The developers actually built Brawl to be a more casual, accessible game, and actively discouraged competition with features like Smash Balls and random tripping; it was a bad, strange decision considering that a simplification wasn't really sought after by fans to my knowledge and made the flow of battle more chaotic and random with less input required from the player (which slows down my control experience) and to me, less enjoyable.  I found the Subspace Emissary uninspired as it was little more than an overblown version of Kirby SS's Great Cave Offensive.  I definitely prefered the large roster, though. I liked the story itself, but playing was a grind, which is why I was pleased when they announced it was dropped from SSB4.  I would prefer something like Adventure mode from Melee but with more to it.  I want to say I've read that they're returning to the feel of Melee, but I don't have a source to verify that.


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## ShinyYoshi (Aug 20, 2013)

I really loved the original when I was little and I still love it now, but Brawl had some really awesome stages and the story mode was a lot of fun!
I never had Melee but I really wish I did because everyone always says it's their favorite out of the 3 so it really makes me want to play it x(


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## Furry Sparks (Aug 20, 2013)

Horus said:


> Melee. Brawl made me break a GC controller.



Pretty cool games are at the point where they can actually reach out into the real world and throw people's controllers.


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## Pidjiken (Aug 20, 2013)

Melee, because seriously, Brawl sucks ass for competitive play. Unbalanced like hell, why the **** do you think evo held another Melee tourney this year and not a brawl one? Because even the pros don't like it.

When my friends and I want to play smash brothers, even to this day we break out Melee. Brawls a ****ing black sheep in the series. 

Though subspace emissary with multiplayer is fun, but solo it's trash.

Melee > Brawl. Period.


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## one_eye (Aug 20, 2013)

Pidjiken said:


> Melee, because seriously, Brawl sucks ass for competitive play. Unbalanced like hell, why the **** do you think evo held another Melee tourney this year and not a brawl one? Because even the pros don't like it.
> 
> When my friends and I want to play smash brothers, even to this day we break out Melee. Brawls a ****ing black sheep in the series.
> 
> ...



>SSE
>Fun

hue.

Melee isn't balanced either. Why do you think Only Sheik/Fox/Marth are the only people played?


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## Furry Sparks (Aug 20, 2013)

Pidjiken said:


> Melee, because seriously, Brawl sucks ass for competitive play. Unbalanced like hell, why the **** do you think evo held another Melee tourney this year and not a brawl one? Because even the pros don't like it.
> 
> When my friends and I want to play smash brothers, even to this day we break out Melee. Brawls a ****ing black sheep in the series.
> 
> ...



I like brawl better because I play it with friends, the characters are more diverse than melee, the music is tons better, and there's more options like co-op home run. 

Are you actually playing it on a competitive level? I mean sure brawl sucks at competitive play, but that is not the sole purpose of a game. I mean OoT is better for speed running than say, FFX, but that's not really the purpose of the game. It's pretty obvious brawl wasn't designed to be a competitive game in the first place. Yes tripping is a little silly, but it's not game ruining.  If I want to play something competitive with friends, I'll break out Starcraft, Dota, Counter Strike, or Street Fighter. Something designed and balanced around being competitive. Not Smash Bros.

I don't see what makes it a black sheep, there's only 3 smash games and it's not even that drastically different. A little slowed down, and some balance changes but it's pretty clearly still the same series.

Yeah, the subspace thing wasn't great but at least there was an easy way to get all the characters. Plus the cutscenes were pretty cool.


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## Lurrdoc (Aug 20, 2013)

I like brawl 'cuz i can air dodge, but then again you can trip too. I'll go with melee.


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## Pidjiken (Aug 20, 2013)

one_eye said:


> >SSE
> >Fun
> 
> hue.
> ...



You obviously haven't been keeping up with it. The SSBM tier list changes frequently. Marth fell off of the top tier years ago and hasn't regained the constant play he normally sees in tournaments. Ice climbers rose to tier 1 recently. You see as many people playing Fox as Falco currently, and they are still just as used as the rest of tier 1 ( IC, jiggly, shiek .) The top two tiers are fairly balanced.

There's a big difference between having two top tier groups that can compete heavily with each other during tournament play, and the problems we have in brawl. In Brawl you have the BROKEN tier. Characters that are so ****ing overpowered that they are currently banned from tournament play (Metaknight, Snake) depending on your tournament (Diddy, Falco, hell even Olimar lately.)

- - - Post Merge - - -



Furry Sparks said:


> Are you actually playing it on a competitive level?


 Yes. Brawl is a ****ing travesty for competitive play. Evo has stopped hosting tournaments for it by request of the pros.



Furry Sparks said:


> I mean sure brawl sucks at competitive play, but that is not the sole purpose of a game. I mean OoT is better for speed running than say, FFX, but that's not really the purpose of the game. It's pretty obvious brawl wasn't designed to be a competitive game in the first place.


 I hate to break it to you but, unfortunately this is not true. When evo announced it would be hosting a melee tournament and not brawl, Nintendo tried to shut it down. They went so far as to ban any streaming of the tournament or mention of it. However, due to outcry from the players and fans Nintendo released their ban and allowed it to continue. They tried to demand a Brawl tournament as well but the players refused to play it, and Evo said it just didn't have time for it.




Furry Sparks said:


> Yes tripping is a little silly, but it's not game ruining.


 Tripping decides matches. The mechanic is one of the stupidest thing they've done. Why force a mandatory random game changing element into the mix?



Furry Sparks said:


> If I want to play something competitive with friends, I'll break out Starcraft, Dota, Counter Strike, or Street Fighter. Something designed and balanced around being competitive. Not Smash Bros.



The melee tournament was voted for, heavily by the players. You are entitled to your opinion of course, but player demand makes it a fan favorite every year.



Furry Sparks said:


> I don't see what makes it a black sheep, there's only 3 smash games and it's not even that drastically different. A little slowed down, and some balance changes but it's pretty clearly still the same series.


 In order to make Sonic the fastest character they nerfed every single other characters speed. This destroyed multiple characters instantly, Sheik is just one example. There's a difference between "Balance" and "Broken." They didn't balance Brawl, they broke it.



Furry Sparks said:


> Yeah, the subspace thing wasn't great but at least there was an easy way to get all the characters. Plus the cutscenes were pretty cool.


 No argument here on SSE.


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## Furry Sparks (Aug 20, 2013)

Pidjiken said:


> Yes. Brawl is a ****ing travesty for competitive play. Evo has stopped hosting tournaments for it by request of the pros.



Oh that's cool, didn't know that. What tournaments did you play in, who do you main and how did you do?



Pidjiken said:


> hate to break it to you but, unfortunately this is not true. When evo announced it would be hosting a melee tournament and not brawl, Nintendo tried to shut it down. They went so far as to ban any streaming of the tournament or mention of it. However, due to outcry from the players and fans Nintendo released their ban and allowed it to continue. They tried to demand a Brawl tournament as well but the players refused to play it, and Evo said it just didn't have time for it.



If you mean competitive play is the only important thing about smash bros, I don't even know what to say to that. There's other parts of the game. If you mean that brawl was designed as a competitive game, I really dont think so. I think tripping was their way of making the game not competitive at all, to distance themselves from the scene, hence why they wanted to stop melee from even happening at Evo. I did not see a single thing saying they tried to force brawl on anything, please link me if you find otherwise. I simply think that Nintendo doesn't really get the whole streaming and internet thing, and that they want to keep the image of smash as a fun casual friendly game instead of a hardcore game like that. You're saying that it was designed to be competitive, but then give reasons as to why the balance and tripping and all the other mechanics are horrible for it. Isn't it possible that maybe those things are terrible because they didn't balance or design the game around competitive play?



Pidjiken said:


> Tripping decides matches. The mechanic is one of the stupidest thing they've done. Why force a mandatory random game changing element into the mix?


Yeah, it's dumb but it doesn't ruin me playing the game with my friends. 



Pidjiken said:


> In order to make Sonic the fastest character they nerfed every single other characters speed. This destroyed multiple characters instantly, Sheik is just one example. There's a difference between "Balance" and "Broken." They didn't balance Brawl, they broke it.



You have a source for this? I haven't heard that before. Maybe they just wanted a slower paced game? And again, I'm not saying that the tier lists and metagame is balanced or anything. You are missing my point. Again,* I am not saying that Brawl is a good competitive game*. My point is that brawl is not designed to be a competitive fighting game, and that simple fact does not make it a bad game. It was made to be a fun party game and play with friends.


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## Jake (Aug 20, 2013)

Melee.

Whenever my family would come over we'd play it together (there was 4 of us so it fit perfectly). We'd spend hours away playing Melee whilst our parents were probably *****ing about how much of a little **** we all were haha.

We did do the same with Brawl, but as we were older it didn't have the same value as Melee had.


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## Pidjiken (Aug 20, 2013)

Furry Sparks said:


> Oh that's cool, didn't know that. What tournaments did you play in, who do you main and how did you do?



Some local tourneys and evo when it comes around. 
Sheik
Best I've done at evo isn't worth mentioning, some guys devote their lives to this. I win matches but I don't end up top 16.  Outside of evo I place well though, but those are just small local tournaments. :3




Furry Sparks said:


> If you mean competitive play is the only important thing about smash bros, I don't even know what to say to that. There's other parts of the game. If you mean that brawl was designed as a competitive game, I really dont think so. I think tripping was their way of making the game not competitive at all, to distance themselves from the scene, hence why they wanted to stop melee from even happening at Evo. I did not see a single thing saying they tried to force brawl on anything, please link me if you find otherwise. I simply think that Nintendo doesn't really get the whole streaming and internet thing, and that they want to keep the image of smash as a fun casual friendly game instead of a hardcore game like that. You're saying that it was designed to be competitive, but then give reasons as to why the balance and tripping and all the other mechanics are horrible for it. Isn't it possible that maybe those things are terrible because they didn't balance or design the game around competitive play?
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's dumb but it doesn't ruin me playing the game with my friends.
> ...


Let me just put it this way. The game is broken, inside, and outside of competitive play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T2i-KWp2Vg

However just because it's broken does not mean you cannot have fun with it. The game does have competitive implications considering Nintendo WANTS it to be in Evo, and wants it to be a mainstay. They ****ed it up however, and it's just not getting the coverage and popularity they want.

As for your request on Brawl character speeds, here's the speed chart. 


Spoiler



From Slowest to Fastest: 
Jigglypuff: 5.50 
Ganondorf: 5.20 
King DeDeDe: 4.93 
Zelda: 4.93 
Wario: 4.50 
Peach: 4.50 
Snake: 4.50 
Luigi: 4.50 
Link: 4.50 
Ike: 4.43 
Squirtle: 4:43 
Kirby: 4.43 
Olimin & Pikmin: 4.33 
Ness: 4.33 
Wolf: 4.33 
Ice Climbers: 4.33 
Lucario: 4.23 
Falco: 4.23 
Samus: 4.16 
Lucas: 4.00 
R.O.B: 4.00 
Bowser: 4.00 
Mario: 4.00 
Ivysaur: 4.00 
Mr. G&W: 3.93 
Pit: 3.84 
Toon Link: 3.73 
Donkey Kong: 3.73 
Yoshi: 3.63 
Diddy Kong: 3.56 
Marth: 3.56 
Charizard: 3.43 
Pikachu:3.43 
Meta-Knight: 3.30 
ZSS: 3.17 
Shiek: 3.17 
Fox: 2.90 
C. Falcon: 2.77 
Sonic: 1.90



Every high tier speed character from melee got a nerf bat. Notice the massive difference in speed for sonic, and he isn't even any good. Characters that relied on chains and speed in Melee became completely broken and terrible (Sheik, Fox, Kirby, etc. ) Melee speed numbers can be found here: http://www.gamefaqs.com/gamecube/516492-supersmashbrosmelee/faqs/16680


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## Furry Sparks (Aug 20, 2013)

Pidjiken said:


> Some local tourneys and evo when it comes around.
> Sheik
> Best I've done at evo isn't worth mentioning, some guys devote their lives to this. I win matches but I don't end up top 16.  Outside of evo I place well though, but those are just small local tournaments. :3
> 
> ...



I have not seen any evidence anywhere of Nintendo waning to make Brawl competitive, or wanting it at events. If you have something that says otherwise, please show me.

And a chart of speeds isn't enough to say that they nerfed everyone's speed just to make sonic faster. Maybe they just wanted a slower game in general.


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## Heir (Aug 20, 2013)

I like Melee better. Not because its better for competitive play, but because I just had more fun with it. I grew bored of brawl within months of playing, while Melee lasted for years. I even have an older brother to do the Co-op stuff with in brawl and it still didn't hold up against melee.

With melee, setting the amount to lives to 99 was a common thing, with brawl, never done it once. I still like brawl's character roster better though...


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## Pidjiken (Aug 20, 2013)

Furry Sparks said:


> I have not seen any evidence anywhere of Nintendo waning to make Brawl competitive, or wanting it at events. If you have something that says otherwise, please show me.
> 
> And a chart of speeds isn't enough to say that they nerfed everyone's speed just to make sonic faster. Maybe they just wanted a slower game in general.



How hard is this to understand? Nintendo will never outright state it, you have to use your brain on this one. The Pro players refuse to acknowledge Brawls existence, and NO ONE can blame them. It's a broken train wreck of a game. You cannot just turn off items and go to final destination and have a fair match in it, the mechanics don't let that happen. On top of this the power levels between the characters are so unbalanced that a chunk of the cast has to be banned at events. This provides secondary issues in which counters for particular characters get banned. It's a chain reaction of ****. You can't just not ban these characters either, as Snake and Metaknight are beyond broken. They are gods, their moves have programmed priority over almost every single other move in the game. Metaknight can take you from 0% to dead without giving you a single chance to hit him. There are SERIOUS balance issues with the game that extend past just competitive play.

Melee at the recent evo shattered records. It had the most online viewers of any evo tournament in history. They had an hour long "One more year" chant at the end of the tournament. It raised $100,000.00 for breast cancer research. It was THE MOST POPULAR GAME at the worlds biggest fighting game stage of 2013, beating out the crowds of Street Fighter, MvC, etc. That is HUGE publicity for a game, you have to be borderline ******** to not realize that Nintendo would not want Melee to get this distinction in the current day and age, they are trying to sell Brawl, not melee. When the previous rendition continues to be a mainstay in the largest arena in the world, despite there being a newer version this gives bad PR to the company. It's shameful.


Now to address Speed. 

Wanting a slower game, but the result of making it a slower game is severe balance issues to the point of completely breaking characters, was stupid. Period. I'm entertaining your consistent claims here.

Sonic is the only one in brawl who can still classify under melee with tier 1 speed. Everyone else was nerfed and most were broken as a result of the nerfs. Sheik is no longer fast enough to combo as she was intended. She's useless. Fox's speed loss places his kit at the mercy of grapplers. You can beat fox players with just your grab button now. He's helpless.

Considering the massive speed difference between sonic and anyone else it is safe to say that everyone was nerfed because of sonics inclusion to the series. If you want a slower game everyone should be clumped in a general pool of close speeds. What you have in the speed chart is a shotgun effect. Most speeds are within .10-.30 away from the next character on the list, however sonic is a full second faster than second place. He was given obvious priority during development to be the fastest character. Now think about this. If they intended to make him the fastest, you had two options when you were going to include him in the game. 1 Make him faster than everyone currently by  a very small margin (since making him too much faster would cause many issues), or 2 slow everyone else down to make him fastest without creating an even faster tier. The answer is obvious from a developmental stand point. Due to the emphasis on making sonic fastest they broke the game. Kits designed around speed, that no longer had the speed to maintain it fell apart.

Look, Brawl is a ****ing mess, it's an embarrassment for Nintendo. Most people still continue to play Melee instead. This is just the reality of the situation. This does NOT mean you aren't allowed to have fun with it. What Brawl has is a more extensive cast, and if you aren't playing competitively and just want to see your favorite franchise character run around and beat someones head in then fine. If you want to use items to unbalance it further fine. I have yet to find anyone who approves of tripping though. Bottom line, Nintendo wants it to be taken seriously by the Pros, so it gets the PR and sales that can go along with it. Thinking that they don't is sheer ignorance.


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## Isabella (Aug 20, 2013)

Melee will probably always be my favorite. I spent the most time playing it, and even though the 64 is still a classic, Melee has more characters, and fighting just flows better with the controls and everything. I don't own brawl but I've played it a lot before at friends house and I like maining as Kirby, but Kirby's really slow in the game and pretty bad in general so I always end up using Falco or Fox.

I find it a bit funny that people take this game so seriously. I mean, when it really comes down to it all the characters have good and bad qualities, and even the 'worst' characters can end up being good if you know how to use them correctly. So, I don't really agree with the tiers at all lol

There's no doubt that fans will pretty much always like Melee better than Brawl because of speed and such. I like to consider it as the more 'raw' game because it seems in Brawl you tend to rely on items much more than in Melee, while in Melee its all a matter of your fighting skill to win and items aren't as prominent of a feature in Melee.


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## SockHead (Aug 20, 2013)

Melee hands down. Brawl was amazing but it doesn't match the feel of Melee.


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## Link32 (Aug 20, 2013)

The original just ahead of Melee


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## Horus (Aug 20, 2013)

Furry Sparks said:


> Pretty cool games are at the point where they can actually reach out into the real world and throw people's controllers.



Lmao but that's just silly. Obviously it hypnotized me.


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## violetneko (Aug 20, 2013)

I started on Melee when I was around 2nd grade. When this dude would babysit me, we would play it together, I being Young Link and he being Pichu or Roy. Funny thing is when I got older I played as adult Link, and still do XD
I liked Brawl a lot; though the Emissary thing was cool, I had some fanfic friendships that weren't happening XD
I loved the custom stages in Brawl; I made one where it's a big size square, with the falling platforms-that-appear-again-a-bit-later lining the top. That got some high damage percentages XD. When there was a sudden death match, it would never end because the top platforms never got activated since nothing dropped on them >:3
It's too bad my Wii absolutely hates Brawl...
I loved the impact sounds in the original; 'specially explosions and the "bonk" sound XD
My favorite out of the three, hands down, is Melee :3


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## Rampor (Aug 21, 2013)

melee is the best for me


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## Officer Berri (Aug 21, 2013)

I like Brawl the best because it has Wolf O'Donnell. Yeah. Yeah that's my only reason.

I don't care about competitive play because I only play with my brother so the game mechanics don't mean anything to me. As long as my brother and I can play and have fun then I don't really see a problem with it.


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## Shiny Star (Aug 21, 2013)

I've never played Melee but I have played the other two. And I mean a lot. The first one for the N64 brings back the childhood but Brawl has more to offer and I've enjoyed it a lot more. More characters, like three times more. Brilliant.


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## Aquadirt (Aug 27, 2013)

Brawl was the best as far as I'm concerned.  I love collecting things and there were so many more characters, trophies, stickers, achievements, levels....  It was so much work, but so much fun.  And quite satisfying in the end.


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## Pidjiken (Aug 27, 2013)

Brawl is not the best lol. The ****ing things broken.


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## eruniban (Aug 27, 2013)

brawl is best
I like pokemon trainer


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## Midoriya (Aug 27, 2013)

Brawl is the best.  It's catching up to Melee on the votes!  Yes, bwah hah hah!


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## Trundle (Aug 27, 2013)

Definitely Melee. More balanced and I love all the gameplay mechanics.


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## Brabus E73 (Aug 27, 2013)

I like Melee the best too. Brawl was killer, but I didn't like some of the character additions and just feel Melee flowed a little better and was more balanced.


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## Pidjiken (Aug 27, 2013)

AnimalCrossingExpert(ACE) said:


> Brawl is the best.  It's catching up to Melee on the votes!  Yes, bwah hah hah!



It shouldn't. That's a terrible thing --; Gamers should promote good balanced games, not broken messes. I'd rather the developers not get the idea that they can just throw broken **** at us and we'll be happy.


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## bittermeat (Aug 27, 2013)

I loved Melee back in the day, but I loved Brawl the same amount when it came out.


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## Heir (Aug 27, 2013)

Pidjiken said:


> It shouldn't. That's a terrible thing --; Gamers should promote good balanced games, not broken messes. I'd rather the developers not get the idea that they can just throw broken **** at us and we'll be happy.



Sorry but, other people are allowed to have opinions different from yours. If they like brawl, they like brawl, if they don't, they don't. 
God.


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## Pidjiken (Aug 27, 2013)

Heir said:


> Sorry but, other people are allowed to have opinions different from yours. If they like brawl, they like brawl, if they don't, they don't.
> God.



A broken game is a broken game. Facts cannot be opinions. If this were as simple as just opinions I'd say nothing. Page 2 of this thread for one of many youtube videos you can find on it.


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## Heir (Aug 27, 2013)

I'm not saying that brawl isn't broken in competitve play. What I'm saying is, why bother replying to a guy expressing his love for the game to tell him that:



> It shouldn't. That's a terrible thing --; Gamers should promote good balanced games, not broken messes. I'd rather the developers not get the idea that they can just throw broken **** at us and we'll be happy.




If the guy likes the game for what it is, and despite its flaws, why even bother replying? It really just looks like you're attacking his opinion because it's contrast to yours. 

And because this:



> Brawl is not the best lol. The ****ing things broken.


Those people said brawl was the best, which were their opinions.


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## Pidjiken (Aug 27, 2013)

Heir said:


> I'm not saying that brawl isn't broken in competitive play.


 I'm saying it's broken outside of competitive play as well. It is a broken game. Period.



Heir said:


> What I'm saying is, why bother replying to a guy expressing his love for the game to tell him that:
> 
> 
> If the guy likes the game for what it is, and despite its flaws, why even bother replying? It really just looks like you're attacking his opinion because it's contrast to yours.



I'm responding to his opinion with *facts*, not with another opinion. Make this distinction. You can have fun with a broken game, the problem arises when you refuse to recognize it as one or try to favor it over a balanced one. You want the developers to make a good solid game. Telling them you don't care about balance or glitches just encourages them to be lazy and create more trash for you to eat. It's detrimental to the genre.



Heir said:


> Those people said brawl was the best, which were their opinions.


 And I'm telling them it isn't, which is a fact from the fundamental and mechanical level of the games. It's broken and unbalanced.


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## MygL (Aug 27, 2013)

I like Brawl.


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## Horus (Aug 27, 2013)

MygL said:


> I like Brawl.



You look familiar 

Also, this thread is "Which Super Smash Bros game *do you like* best?" not "Which Super Smash Bros game is theoretically the best?" so stop the idiotic arguing.


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## Aquadirt (Aug 27, 2013)

unnecessary argument, I apologize


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## Elliot (Aug 27, 2013)

Melee is way more competitive imo, and brawl is more casual. So i pick melee.


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## Heir (Aug 27, 2013)

Was going to write something, but then I saw this.


Horus said:


> You look familiar
> 
> Also, this thread is "Which Super Smash Bros game *do you like* best?" not "Which Super Smash Bros game is theoretically the best?" so stop the idiotic arguing.



Whatever, I digress. Do what you want. Keep telling people the game they like is broken etc etc blah.



*post directed at pidjiken probably butchered name though ahuehue


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## Pidjiken (Aug 27, 2013)

Aquadirt said:


> Stating that you find a game others truly love to be broken doesn't mean it is to anyone but the one stating it.  I find it to be fully functional.  Some changes just have to be gotten used to, or you simply choose not to partake.



You obviously don't understand. This is not about op characters, or balance issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T2i-KWp2Vg

Tell me this isn't broken. Only the severely ignorant, fanboyish, or delusional can watch **** like this and try to claim this isn't broken. This can be done on any game setting, in any game.

Fact: The game is broken. This is only 1 of the broken gameplay issues.


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## Aquadirt (Aug 27, 2013)

unnecessary argument, I apologize


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## Pidjiken (Aug 27, 2013)

Aquadirt said:


> So Metaknight can fly about infinitely?  That's a cowards move and those who would use it, I would have to cease play with.



Which means you consider it broken. Otherwise you'd have no problem with people using it.



Aquadirt said:


> I don't care if they want to try to hit me with a torando repetitively either.  There's plenty of spammy moves on all versions.  There are ways around it.



The problem with the tornado is that there are only a handful of moves that have a programmed priority over it. Most of the characters in Brawl can be shut out completely by it and the sky attack alone, which also takes priority over nearly every other move in the game. If you don't know what priority means, it means that when two moves are used against each other, one with a higher priority will hit, while the one with the lower priority will miss or deal no damage. Metaknights skillset alone influenced the tiers substantially. Whoever can hit him is typically higher in the tier list, those who can't are typically much lower.

Not to mention how broken Mr. Game and Watch is. That 25% chance 9 Hammer insta kill is bull****. Free wins for single skill spammers. This is why Samus, despite being considered bottom of the tier list in the original smash brothers, was banned at events. Her down smash was an insta kill.

Snake is ****ing ******** for any game that includes a smash ball, even in tourneys his power, priotity rating,  and speed make him the best behind metaknight. No one comes close to these two.



Aquadirt said:


> Fact:  You value your opinion too highly if you keep calling it fact.



A fact is a fact. Just because you want it to be an opinion doesn't make it so.


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## Mino (Aug 27, 2013)

All these people voting for Brawl.

Are you all 12 or something? Even people who played Brawl know Melee is the best.


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## Aquadirt (Aug 27, 2013)

unnecessary argument, I apologize


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## MygL (Aug 27, 2013)

Pidjiken said:


> Which means you consider it broken. Otherwise you'd have no problem with people using it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Brawl's cool, yo.


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## Pidjiken (Aug 27, 2013)

Mino said:


> All these people voting for Brawl.
> 
> Are you all 12 or something? Even people who played Brawl know Melee is the best.



I know right? lol


Aquadirt said:


> Absolutely not.  I don't care much for cheaters.  Which is who spammy moves are used by.  Just because its in the game, it is not broken.  If your disc is in two pieces, by all means, call it broken.
> Define Broken: having been fractured or damaged and no longer in one piece or in working order.
> The game is in one, fully functional piece.  Regardless of whether or not you enjoy any given part.  It plays exactly as was intended by the creators.



 You aren't using the correct definition of broken. 

Define: Broken (Games) A game object or facility that is too good to exist. It is so powerful that it is unbalancing and hence breaks the game. Every winning player has to use this to be competitive. 

When nearly every tourney (95%+ ) was won by anything but a metaknight for years.

When Metaknight was banned, nearly every tourney was won by Snake for the next year. ( 90%+)

*SSBB is BROKEN by definition*




Aquadirt said:


> I use Captain Falcon, Pit and Marth.  I have no trouble whooping Snake or Metaknight.  Even online.  It comes down to skill, if you're lacking, I guess it might not be as fun.



You aren't playing any snakes or Metaknights of any viable skill then. It's simple as that. I've never once said you can't have fun with brawl. The problem is the flawed perception that this isn't a broken game. It is, by definition, a broken game.




Aquadirt said:


> Define Fact: A thing that is indisputably the case.
> The FACT that I am able to dispute your claim, states that your argument is based on Opinion.



You are disputing the case based on the wrong definition of the word broken. Thus your argument is invalid and the fact withheld. 



Aquadirt said:


> Stuff



The rest is incorrect conjecture based on the flawed definition so I've omitted it from response.


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## Aquadirt (Aug 27, 2013)

unnecessary argument, I apologize


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## Pidjiken (Aug 27, 2013)

Aquadirt said:


> These arguments, even when you're wrong you just keep going.  You are a very difficult individual to hold respect for.  "What are you, twelve?"



Wait wait wait. lol wut?

So you use the incorrect definition, get called out on it, get proven completely wrong. 

After this you refuse to so much as formulate a rebuttal, then call me 12 while falsely clinging to your claims of being correct based on a definition that does not apply to the current debate. 

lul....

So you classify under delusional then I guess. Either that or you're just really bad at debate considering you fight solely with opinions and refuse to acknowledge facts. Are you a theist by any chance?


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## Aquadirt (Aug 27, 2013)

unnecessary argument, I apologize


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## Pidjiken (Aug 27, 2013)

Aquadirt said:


> This is your character.  Would you like me to bring up the Gamefaqs thing?  Where EVERYONE called you out and you STILL fought it?



Wut? I don't even think I have a gamefaqs account. Pidjiken is the only username I use anywhere. =/ This is incredibly confusing. Please link what you are referencing. 



Aquadirt said:


> YOU used a definition that makes no sense.  If a game were too good to exist, it simply would not exist.



Just because you do not understand it, does not mean it makes no sense. It just means you need help with clarification so that you can understand it. The definition is not saying the game is too good to exist, it is saying that an aspect of the game is too good to exist. It is in reference to a game mechanic or character that is simply too good to be true. It does not mean the ENTIRE GAME. It means an aspect of the game is so good or overpowered that it causes the games competitive aspect to be completely unfair and unbalanced to the point of requirement for winning anything at a competitive level.



Aquadirt said:


> Yours is a loser's definition.



Mine is the true definition of the word broken when used to reference a game. If you don't like the definition of the word then I don't know what to tell you. It is what it is, as you stated prior, you cannot refute a proper definition. 



Aquadirt said:


> more stuff based on misconceptions. Then the theist comment.



I merely asked if you were a theist because your argument style matches one. You aren't using facts, you're jumping around the issue and using opinions based on misconceptions and incorrect definitions. When presented with facts you are ignoring them and spouting more baseless opinions.


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## eruniban (Aug 27, 2013)

Pidjiken said:


> Wut? I don't even think I have a gamefaqs account. Pidjiken is the only username I use anywhere. =/ This is incredibly confusing. Please link what you are referencing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hes right
youre stuck on yourself
brawl is better


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## Pidjiken (Aug 27, 2013)

eruniban said:


> hes right
> youre stuck on yourself
> brawl is better



He's using the incorrect definition of the term. You can't be right when you base your argument on a falsehood. It's basic logic.

I'm still wondering what the hell he's talking about on a gamefaqs board. =/


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## Midoriya (Aug 27, 2013)

@Pidjiken and Aquadirt: You guys both have good ideas of what the game is about.  But can you at least agree to disagree that your way is right?  There is not always one or wrong way in an argument.  Sometimes it may never finish at all because people fail to accept the reality of that.  You guys need to knock off the arguing, and get over it.  You also both need to accept that each of your statements are at least partially biased based on the fact that you've played the game differently from each other.  In the end, if you keep countering each other you'll get this thread locked and make people lose the chance to vote and voice what they think about the series overall.  That's totally not necessary, and the lame 12 year old excuse is so overrated.  Seriously.  Get a grip.


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## Aquadirt (Aug 27, 2013)

unnecessary argument, I apologize


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## Midoriya (Aug 27, 2013)

AnimalCrossingExpert(ACE) said:


> @Pidjiken and Aquadirt: You guys both have good ideas of what the game is about.  But can you at least agree to disagree that your way is right?  There is not always one or wrong way in an argument.  Sometimes it may never finish at all because people fail to accept the reality of that.  You guys need to knock off the arguing, and get over it.  You also both need to accept that each of your statements are at least partially biased based on the fact that you've played the game differently from each other.  In the end, if you keep countering each other you'll get this thread locked and make people lose the chance to vote and voice what they think about the series overall.  That's totally not necessary, and the lame 12 year old excuse is so overrated.  Seriously.  Get a grip.





Did either of you even consider what I said here?  STOP FIGHTING.  I'm seriously considering just reporting you both if you don't quit it.


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## Pidjiken (Aug 27, 2013)

AnimalCrossingExpert(ACE) said:


> @Pidjiken and Aquadirt: You guys both have good ideas of what the game is about.  But can you at least agree to disagree that your way is right?  There is not always one or wrong way in an argument.  Sometimes it may never finish at all because people fail to accept the reality of that.  You guys need to knock off the arguing, and get over it.  You also both need to accept that each of your statements are at least partially biased based on the fact that you've played the game differently from each other.  In the end, if you keep countering each other you'll get this thread locked and make people lose the chance to vote and voice what they think about the series overall.  That's totally not necessary, and the lame 12 year old excuse is so overrated.  Seriously.  Get a grip.



I'd actually like him to post proof of his attacks. He's claiming some bull**** based on a forum I don't even use, and as far as I know have never used. I go to gamefaqs maybe once a year for a guide, I don't have an account, and I certainly have never posted on their board.

If he's going to throw personal attacks based on something he assumes was me he'd better be ready to rectify his impolite behavior appropriately. 

I'e been nothing but courteous during this debate between me and him, he's done nothing but throw insults, opinions, and misconceptions. If he had provided a shred of proof I'd feel inclined to respect his side at least to a moderate degree. However his attitude has not been one worth respecting. Once proven wrong he's flown off the handle twice now without addressing it. And posted strange threats based on speculation of something from some other board that he has not posted.


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## Midoriya (Aug 27, 2013)

Pidjiken said:


> I'd actually like him to post proof of his attacks. He's claiming some bull**** based on a forum I don't even use, and as far as I know have never used. I go to gamefaqs maybe once a year for a guide, I don't have an account, and I certainly have never posted on their board.
> 
> If he's going to throw personal attacks based on something he assumes was me he'd better be ready to rectify his impolite behavior appropriately.
> 
> I'e been nothing but courteous during this debate between me and him, he's done nothing but throw insults, opinions, and misconceptions. If he had provided a shred of proof I'd feel inclined to respect his side at least to a moderate degree. However his attitude has not been one worth respecting. Once proven wrong he's flown off the handle twice now without addressing it. And posted strange threats based on speculation of something from some other board that he has not posted.




Well, that may be, but he already agreed to stop fighting.  Are you going to stop too, or continue and have everyone look down on you for being the immature one?

EDIT: I know, I saw Aqua.  No worries.


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## Aquadirt (Aug 27, 2013)

Aquadirt said:


> AnimalCrossingExpert-  I'm sorry about it.  Per your request I will make no further remarks towards Pidjiken.  I had already posted this and it will be my last.



I had already responded to your request ACE.  It was posted prior to my reading it.


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## Pidjiken (Aug 27, 2013)

Aquadirt said:


> If you didn't, you'd know.  It's not an "I don't think so."  You've suddenly gotten rather soft in your response.  Don't play dumb, you know what I'm talking about.  Not only did this person argue just like you, but out of all who use this site, its would be extremely surprising for someone to randomly pick you as a dummy.
> 
> 
> Spoiler




What the ****?

Google pidjiken. I have never once used another name. Eve online, AP, RO, World of Warcraft, Xboxlive. Someone is masquerading themselves there as me. I will be pming the staff of gamefaqs. 

I'm reputable as the *sole admin* of anime-planet.com, not by some small animal crossing board that I've barely been a part of at that point for 2 weeks. It makes no sense since during that point in time I was actually banned on these forums. Why would I want to reference myself while I'm banned?




Aquadirt said:


> The definition you gave me said just that, to good to exist.  If that's not what it meant, its not a real definition.  If it were a simple mechanic or character, no one would be a big baby because it didn't work out for them.  So you trip every now and again, randomly.  Boo hoo.  Get over it.  So someone can fly or spam with Metaknight.  Boo hoo.  Get over it.  A win does not require meeting the spam abuser at their level and its foolish to believe such.  Your mentality is what's Broken.  I'm going to accept Merriam-Webster over Pidjiken.


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=broken

I'll take urban dictionary when I'm referring to the definition of a pop-culture term.


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## Midoriya (Aug 27, 2013)

Pidjiken said:


> What the ****?
> 
> Google pidjiken. I have never once used another name. Eve online, AP, RO, World of Warcraft, Xboxlive. Someone is masquerading themselves there as me. I will be pming the staff of gamefaqs.
> 
> ...





You completely ignored my above post.  Please stop arguing about this.  I understand where you're both coming from, but if he already was willing to end it, then why can't you?


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## Pidjiken (Aug 27, 2013)

This is now about my name being tarnished, not about the argument prior. 

Aqua I'm having issues navigating gamefaqs board. I've created an account, but liek with any new board I have no clue how to really navigate. You mind pming pidjiken over there since ACE is gettin on my nuts here.


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## Byngo (Aug 27, 2013)

Woow. I came to this thread not in the least expecting a sh**-throwing contest. 

This arguement of you guys is really straying off-topic.

Getting this thread back on topic: I like Melee as a whole, but I did like the larger veriety of characters and the subspace emissary. Never played the original, so I can't give an opinion on that. (Please don't throw sh** at me.)


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## Pidjiken (Aug 27, 2013)

Where do I find the gamefaqs staff -_-;


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## Midoriya (Aug 27, 2013)

Thanks Pidjiken and Aquadirt.  Hopefully you can get that resolved over there.  If not, then PM each other on here about it.  Like Lunatic said, it's getting really off topic.
I'm unsure whether Melee or Brawl is my favorite.  I like them equally the same amount.  

EDIT: (PM each other about it on this site if you need to)


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## Thunder (Aug 27, 2013)

Yeah, that's a good idea. Keep things on-topic, folks.


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## Pidjiken (Aug 27, 2013)

I've pm'd him. No response yet. 

I can't even figure out how the **** to make a thread over there. This is infuriating. I'm seriously pissed the **** off now. I was calm and fine during the debate but some ****ing ass hole is being a **** and pretending to be me. How the **** would you react to finding some bull**** like this out?

Plus I was ****ing BANNED when the message on gamefaqs was sent to him. Why would I reference a banned account. gdbfkljbsndflkn gfdlknbkgdf

Sorry I'm out of this thread now.


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## Midoriya (Aug 27, 2013)

Ok, now that the argument is resolved, I'll post some on-topic freshness.
I think I've decided I like brawl more, but only by a little bit.  They're both insanely good games though (Brawl and Melee).


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## Jennifer (Aug 28, 2013)

I think each game has its pros and cons--there has been stuff I've liked and disliked about each. Only reason Melee gets my vote is I really hate Brawl's achievement system.


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## Pidjiken (Aug 28, 2013)

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/2000455-animal-crossing-new-leaf-online-trade/67098699

This is apparently the best I can do on their board. ********. -_-


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## Caius (Aug 28, 2013)

Pidjiken said:


> I'm saying it's broken outside of competitive play as well. It is a broken game. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mechanically broken or not, enjoyment levels of something are an opinion. This kind of argument really isn't needed here.


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## Pidjiken (Aug 28, 2013)

Zr388 said:


> Mechanically broken or not, enjoyment levels of something are an opinion. This kind of argument really isn't needed here.



Neither is reviving a resolved issue/dead argument.

To repeat, *there is nothing wrong with having fun in a broken game*. I never once argued against that. The only problem is when you refuse to acknowledge a broken game as a broken game. This becomes detrimental and counter productive towards the gaming community and future installments of the game.


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## Furry Sparks (Aug 29, 2013)

Pidjiken said:


> You obviously don't understand. This is not about op characters, or balance issues.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T2i-KWp2Vg
> 
> ...



So, to prove that the game is broken, and not in an overpowered character way, you post a video of why a character is broken.

Hmm.

One broken character does not mean a broken game. I don't see whats so hard to understand about this.


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## Pidjiken (Aug 29, 2013)

Furry Sparks said:


> So, to prove that the game is broken, and not in an overpowered character way, you post a video of why a character is broken.
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> One broken character does not mean a broken game. I don't see whats so hard to understand about this.



I provided far more than just a metaknight video over the course of the debate extending far beyond _just_ metaknight. I gave one video example of one character and mentioned other character issues including the flawed priority system the game employs for more than just a single character. As well as probability issues with another. If it were just 1 character that was the problem this would still be used in evo, which it is not.

But I digress, again, this is a dead debate. Please quit reviving it.


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## Ashtot (Sep 1, 2013)

Wow, melee and Brawl are tied. For me, I like melee because of the gravity, it's more harsh where as in Brawl you kinda float more. if you know what I'm saying. I just find the combat more enjoyable, but to be honest, that's the only thing I like better.


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## Yokie (Sep 1, 2013)

Brawl has more controll options and it really made the multiplayer a lot more fun. I also enjoy the characters more in Brawl.


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