# The gun, or the criminal?



## ZetaFunction (Jan 5, 2016)

Yay more politics.

So, if someone shoots with a gun, and they shoot another person, and that other person dies, the person with the gun committed a crime.  We can all agree with that.  But, _which_ is the source of the crime?  The gun, or the criminal?

What the president(U.S. president i.e. Obama), and many politicians here think, is that the gun is what causes the crime.  So, remove the second amendment, which allows guns, and therefore crimes shouldn't exist.  But, what about in England (or UK?  correct me if I'm wrong please!) they commit crimes with *knives*.  Bloody knives (literally!) are restricted there, along with guns.  Since people couldn't commit crimes with guns there, they start using knives.  Then knives are restricted.  What next, sporks and heavy cast iron frying pans!?  Lawl probably.

Anyways, before we get too off track, if you make a law that makes guns illegal or hard to obtain (which Obama is trying), people will still have guns.  Mainly criminals.  It's called the black market.  You *can't* stop them entirely, or much at all even, unless you literally go house to house and melt them all.  Like, criminals don't gaf if something's illegal because they're just gonna do whatever they want in the end.  So why will it make a difference??  Yeah, if you remove guns it'll save this/that possible future crime, but because the criminals won't have a gun in their hand, they'll use bombs or knives or idk cast iron frying pans (just an exmaple) to commit it, since they're gonna use whatever that causes death and destruction to do whatever stupid nutty plan they have.  *It's not the gun, that causes crimes, it's the person who pulls the trigger, or the criminal.*

So, what's your opinion on this?  Should guns be banned, or should the U.S. government spend more time and money trying to stop criminals themselves, regardless of the guns or bombs or frying pans (example again lol) they use?


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## Knopekin (Jan 5, 2016)

Yeah, but nobody's ever taken out an entire movie theatre with a knife.



> Anyways, before we get too off track, if you make a law that makes guns illegal or hard to obtain (which Obama is trying), people will still have guns.  Mainly criminals.  It's called the black market.  You *can't* stop them entirely, or much at all even, unless you literally go house to house and melt them all.  [/B]





> But, what about in England (or UK? correct me if I'm wrong please!) they commit crimes with knives. [...] Since people couldn't commit crimes with guns there, they start using knives.



Clearly you _can_ make guns illegal and/or hard to obtain to ensure criminals won't have guns, because, as you've acknowledged, the UK already has.


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## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

most of the arguments against gun control are stupid, embellished and provide insignificant specific cases so yeah


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## Hai (Jan 5, 2016)

The US government should do both. Of course the gun is not the source of the crime, but in countries with gun control like the UK there are (for example) much less gun deaths and less crimes. Gun control has lots of positive aspects.
I recommend watching "Bowling for Columbine"


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## Tao (Jan 5, 2016)

Whilst the person with the gun is at fault, I can imagine at least a few people who commit crimes with guns would be deterred from doing so in the first place if they didn't have such easy access to such a destructive weapon.


Like, yea, sure, they could still turn to knives and other melee weapons, or go on the black market (which a 'petty' criminal probably isn't going to do), but I don't think everybody is going to think "I'll just use a knife instead and still commit the crime". Knives etc still leave yourself pretty vulnerable when compared to a gun, which at least a few people will think of as a deterrent from doing it in the first place when they think "oh no, but I'm now at risk of being hit back and I'm a sissy!"


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## Knopekin (Jan 5, 2016)

I concede that there isn't always a direct correlation between gun ownership and homicide rate (eg. gun ownership in Switzerland is high but the homicide rate and general crime rate is low), but in America, there are so many gun-related deaths every year, it's madness to ignore it.

I'd love to see all guns banned, and there's absolutely no justification at all for a society to allow anyone to obtain semiautomatic weapons, but what Obama wants to do is perform a background check on someone who wants to buy a gun. That's setting the bar so, so low, I don't understand how anyone can possibly be opposed to it. Even if you're of the mindset "it's all on the criminal" then surely even so you'd want a background check to make sure a criminal doesn't get a gun?


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## ZetaFunction (Jan 5, 2016)

Knopekin said:


> ~





Hai said:


> ~





Tao said:


> ~



Guns are deeply rooted in America, which is why I doubt they'll ever be fully illegal in all circumstances. Like, where I live, people literally practice target shooting or are hunting in their backyard timber here at least once a week. It's a tradition for father/mother to go shooting with their daughters/sons who're interested in it.

My point though was that if you make guns or whatever illegal, criminals and crimes will still exist.  Knives were just an example of what they'll use next, taken from the UK; if they want guns, they'll have them.  If you take away their tools, and they'll just use new ones.  True, no more gun violence, but there'll be a spike in whatever new violence they use.  You can't stop violence by taking away weapons, you can only truly stop it by preventing people from becoming criminals.


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## dawsoncreek (Jan 5, 2016)

I'm not saying guns should be banned or anything like that...but I do remember watching something about South Korea...they talked about their low crime rate and the fact that Korea's gun laws were much more stricter than in the U.S...


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## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

Lucanosa said:


> Guns are deeply rooted in America, which is why I doubt they'll ever be fully illegal in all circumstances. Like, where I live, people literally practice target shooting or are hunting in their backyard timber here at least once a week. It's a tradition for father/mother to go shooting with their daughters/sons who're interested in it.
> 
> My point though was that if you make guns or whatever illegal, criminals and crimes will still exist.  Knives were just an example of what they'll use next, taken from the UK; if they want guns, they'll have them.  If you take away their tools, and they'll just use new ones.  True, no more gun violence, but there'll be a spike in whatever new violence they use.  You can't stop violence by taking away weapons, you can only truly stop it by preventing people from becoming criminals.



im not sure if u read my post wrong but the second paragraph is the sort of thing i was saying was stupid and something too insignificant to factor into the decision to ban guns but anyway


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## Bowie (Jan 5, 2016)

Would the criminal be the criminal without the gun?


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## crystalmilktea (Jan 5, 2016)

Gun control also prevents accidental shootings- how many children in the US have mistakenly shot someone because they were able to access a gun?


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## TarzanGirl (Jan 5, 2016)

There are so many guns in the US already so banning guns is not practical. I don't know if there is a solution to the violence problem, but if there is one perhaps it would be to look more into the cause of violent tendencies in people and not worrying about the weapon they use. Something is wrong with people mentally and wrong with our society and it's deeper than it may seem. I feel like part of it is due to the unnatural way that most people, especially in big cities, live these days. I think humans as animals have naturally violent feelings and need a way to get them out, but in our civilization it is hard to do, so people suppress them too long and then choose unacceptable ways of expressing these feelings and end up killing. Life in cities is hard and frustrating for many, so connecting with nature more could help calm people down.


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## Red Cat (Jan 5, 2016)

It is true that guns don't kill people, people kill people. However, people with guns kill more people than people without guns. Guns are far more effective at taking lives than knives or even explosives. Gun control won't stop all gun violence, but if it could stop even 10 percent of mass shootings, it would be worth it. The NRA uses many logical fallacies to get people to oppose any form of gun control whatsoever even if it seems reasonable to most people. The NRA does not represent gun owners but rather the gun industry. The gun industry actually has a financial interest in mass shootings occurring because people panic and buy more guns whenever there is a mass shooting which leads to more gun violence which leads to more people buying guns and so on, so I'm not surprised that they support guns laws which lead to more mass shootings.


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## Twisterheart (Jan 5, 2016)

The gun is the weapon, but the criminal is the one who chose to murder. Even then, this gun business is getting out of control. Everytime I go out in public, I panic that I'll accidentally upset someone and they'll shoot me. I fear for my life when I go out in public. People shouldn't have to live like that.


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## boujee (Jan 5, 2016)

what a boring topic

i say the criminal


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## Acruoxil (Jan 5, 2016)

thats like saying cutlery is the reason why you eat food

remove cutlery, people wont eat food

is that correct???? no


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## visibleghost (Jan 5, 2016)

i think the criminal is way more likely if they have a weapon that can kill easier and from far away. people are less likely to go on a killing spree if all they can get is a knife. if they cant get the opportunity they wont do it.
if they just have a gun lying around they might get a serious impulse and use it, it's a lot easier to just do it if you know it will ne easy-ish


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## Knopekin (Jan 5, 2016)

Lucanosa said:


> Guns are deeply rooted in America, which is why I doubt they'll ever be fully illegal in all circumstances. Like, where I live, people literally practice target shooting or are hunting in their backyard timber here at least once a week. It's a tradition for father/mother to go shooting with their daughters/sons who're interested in it.
> 
> My point though was that if you make guns or whatever illegal, criminals and crimes will still exist.  Knives were just an example of what they'll use next, taken from the UK; if they want guns, they'll have them.  If you take away their tools, and they'll just use new ones.  True, no more gun violence, but there'll be a spike in whatever new violence they use.  You can't stop violence by taking away weapons, you can only truly stop it by preventing people from becoming criminals.



I do understand the cultural significance of guns in the US, and I definitely agree that steps need to be taken to help prevent things like mass shootings (I've been reading about US shootings recently and there is a huge gender difference, something like 2% of shootings are committed by women, so we should start with toxic masculinity). But the fact remains that if you take away people's guns, people will commit crimes, but crucially they _won't commit crimes with guns_, which will decrease the death count exponentially.


And one of the worst things about guns in the US is that, forget about criminals having guns, it's the _police_. 

In the UK, the police have killed 52 people in about 60 years. In the US, police killed 377 people last year, down from 626 in 2014. Police in the UK very rarely even carry guns, and because almost all situations are defused bloodlessly, it's especially heartbreaking to hear yet _another_ story of cops shooting unarmed black children.




Fun fact discovered while checking things on Wikipedia: In the UK, gun laws are so strict that Brits who want to compete in the shooting events in the Olympics have to train overseas and don't receive any government funding because their sport is illegal.


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## seliph (Jan 5, 2016)

Ares said:


> thats like saying cutlery is the reason why you eat food
> 
> remove cutlery, people wont eat food
> 
> is that correct???? no



I mean I see where you're coming from but you _have_ to eat

you don't have to kill people

And I saw someone mention Switzerland and I just wanna add more about the gun laws in Switzerland:
Ammunition can't be kept at home (it stays at a shooting range/military barracks), boys do military time til they're 28, and concealed pistol permits are _incredibly_ difficult to obtain.

So yeah saying "Well the Swiss have guns and they're doing fine!" is kind of... pointless.


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## DarkDesertFox (Jan 5, 2016)

Guns should not be banned. Like you've said already, people don't actually need a gun to commit a crime. You've got knives, swords, bombs, etc. You even see some reports on the news of people using their car as a weapon to run people down. Take guns away from the civilians and now you've given criminals the upper hand using illegal methods to obtain guns. Criminals will always find a workaround.



Knopekin said:


> Yeah, but nobody's ever taken out an entire movie theatre with a knife.



Get a few people involved with knives and it could turn pretty messy.


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## Reindeer (Jan 5, 2016)

Lucanosa said:


> Anyways, before we get too off track, if you make a law that makes guns illegal or hard to obtain (which Obama is trying), people will still have guns.  Mainly criminals.  It's called the black market.  You *can't* stop them entirely, or much at all even, unless you literally go house to house and melt them all.


This and the rest of this paragraph is basically how I think about gun control in the US. It's impossible to impose a ban on guns now, and the only people it would affect are people that likely would only have used it in defense. The restrictions that Obama proposed now (sellers need a license, background checks on buyers mandatory, other minor additions) won't help any either. If you're thinking of killing with a gun, you'll find a way to get your hands on one.

Guns are banned in France, but the 13 November attacks still happened. There's a huge black market in Europe that deals in weapons produced before gun restriction laws were implemented in certain countries. I don't want to see gun ownership among citizens becoming a thing in Europe, and I doubt it ever will, since most people here think of them as disgusting. But if stricter gun laws were implemented in the US, it would be like castrating the citizens that just want to protect themselves.


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## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

finding a workaround is not a valid argument because in the end it would still discourage a lot of petty or inexperienced criminals so

like the least u could do is have limits on purchasing ammunition and making it a lot more difficult to have a gun permit lol


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## okaimii (Jan 5, 2016)

The way I look at it is that it's a hell of a lot easier for criminals to kill people with guns. I don't know how many more deaths of young children and families we'll need in order for the U.S to finally take some real action and ban guns or have _a lot_ stricter gun control. Sometimes I'm even afraid to go outside my house and to public places because where I live, I hear about people getting shot everyday in the news and I'm sure it's the same in many other states too. It's really sad.


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## seliph (Jan 5, 2016)

So people are like "you don't need guns to commit a crime" so then what's the harm in banning them anyways?

But anyways aside from the gun thing I think more measures than that need to be taken to decrease crime rate, like easier access to mental health help, better lives for the unemployed, a higher minimum wage etc. 'cause guns are still only part of the problem


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## Knopekin (Jan 5, 2016)

DarkDesertFox said:


> Guns should not be banned. Like you've said already, people don't actually need a gun to commit a crime. You've got knives, swords, bombs, etc. You even see some reports on the news of people using their car as a weapon to run people down. Take guns away from the civilians and now you've given criminals the upper hand using illegal methods to obtain guns. Criminals will always find a workaround.



I don't know where you live, but I'm pretty sure bombs (and most swords) are illegal.



> Get a few people involved with knives and it could turn pretty messy.



"could" isn't really fact-checking, though.

You're right, though; there have been several incidents where someone wielding a knife has gone around and slaughtered a lot of people. But these are reported globally and are spread over several decades. The Wikipedia article for 'mass stabbings' has 28 entries. In a separate article, there were over 50 school shootings in the United States between 2014-15.


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## epona (Jan 5, 2016)

just gonna leave this here



2,000 probably doesn't seem like a massive figure in the grand scope of things in a huge place like america but that's 2,000 lives wiped out in _accidental_ shootings that would never have happened if there hadn't been a gun in the vicinity. more shocking still, over 40 of those incidents were at the hands of toddlers. as in toddlers. as in 2/3/4 year olds. toddlers literally shooting guns. why on earth does it seem like a good idea to live in a society where guns are accessible to TODDLERS
i've grown up in ireland, a country where literally NOBODY has a gun (with the exception of hunting rifles and even then licenses are incredibly difficult to obtain) like our police force isn't armed guns are not seen here at all and i remember when i went to america for the first time i saw a policeman with a gun and i nearly **** myself no lie


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## boujee (Jan 5, 2016)

I wonder if anyone here study the bureau of Justice Statistics.
People die everyday, in varies of ways too. Whether it's through shooting, car bombs, stabbing, physical contact, poison, disease, starvation, heck even old age, etc.
People kill with intention, whether it's good or bad there's a reason. I think I recall reading this article of the 10 top things that are dangerous[I'm probably mixing up the title since I read a few other things that kinda had a similar title]. The list was cringe-worthy, ranging from killer animals, poisonous insects, to even plants but the number one contender is humans.

Regards to this topic, I still personally believe 'the criminal' or people, The simple truth is that guns DO NOT kill people[I mean well duh]; people kill people and have been doing so long before firearms were invented. If you live in a neighborhood that constantly has shootings, probably move. Or get some protection. Or stop looking at the news, it's depressing.


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## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

guns do kill people the bullet enters and pierces and makes u bleed out and die


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## kayleee (Jan 5, 2016)

I mean it's really both the criminal and the weapon that make the crime but yeah guns are stupid and I don't get why people are so crazy about having them


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## Reindeer (Jan 5, 2016)

epona said:


> i've grown up in ireland, a country where literally NOBODY has a gun (with the exception of hunting rifles and even then licenses are incredibly difficult to obtain) like our police force isn't armed guns are not seen here at all and i remember when i went to america for the first time i saw a policeman with a gun and i nearly **** myself no lie


cool story bro

For real though, did you forget that just a few years ago, Dublin was considered the "gun murder capital" of Europe, that Irish authorities have seized over 1000 illegal weapons in Ireland since 2005, and that gun crime is actually on the rise in Ireland? You can say "nobody has guns in Ireland", but 5 seconds on Google shows how awfully wrong that statement is.

I'll admit the numbers are tiny compared to the US. However, the gun legislation of Ireland is lax compared to other European countries.

Sources: 1 2 3

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piichinu said:


> guns do kill people the bullet enters and pierces and makes u bleed out and die


um that means the bullet kills people
so ban bullets


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## oath2order (Jan 5, 2016)

TarzanGirl said:


> There are so many guns in the US already so banning guns is not practical.



And the culture is very gun-obsessed too.



Knopekin said:


> I do understand the cultural significance of guns in the US, and I definitely agree that steps need to be taken to help prevent things like mass shootings (I've been reading about US shootings recently and there is a huge gender difference, something like 2% of shootings are committed by women, so we should start with toxic masculinity). But the fact remains that if you take away people's guns, people will commit crimes, but crucially they _won't commit crimes with guns_, which will decrease the death count exponentially.



How about we ignore nonsense like toxic masculinity in this case and fund mental health more?


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## Shimmer (Jan 5, 2016)

Without the person, the gun can't do harm to anyone so therefore, it's obvious that it's the criminal's fault.


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## kayleee (Jan 5, 2016)

Shimmer said:


> Without the person, the gun can't do harm to anyone so therefore, it's obvious that it's the criminal's fault.



So toddlers that accidently shoot themselves/other people are criminals now


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## Shimmer (Jan 5, 2016)

crystalmilktea said:


> Gun control also prevents accidental shootings- how many children in the US have mistakenly shot someone because they were able to access a gun?



I agree that there should be more gun control. Banning guns completely wouldn't solve the problem. 

It would be interesting to compare the amount of deaths and shootings in states with more gun control to states with barely any gun control.


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## Knopekin (Jan 5, 2016)

oath2order said:


> How about we ignore nonsense like toxic masculinity in this case and fund mental health more?



It's a different debate entirely, but the links between masculinity and crime (and, also related to guns, masculinity and suicide) are documented across sociology, psychology and criminology.

I'm definitely with you on providing adequate mental health services, but it shouldn't be either/or.


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## Beardo (Jan 5, 2016)

You can't murder a school full of people, or an entire mall, or the audience of a midnight screening, with a knife (at least not easily) I hate guns in general, and the thought of hunting makes me uncomfortable. I may be paranoid and sensitive, but guns just aren't safe in the hands of most people.


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## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

okay, well, banning meth hasnt solved the problem
banning human trafficking hasnt solved the problem
banning anything never completely solves the problem

same goes for guns so let's just make everything legal because it doesn't "completely solve the problem"


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## TheLostEmpire (Jan 5, 2016)

What kind of idiot would let their toddler or child anywhere near a gun. Those are supposed to be locked up or in a place they can't get to. Sounds more like a problem with the parents than the gun.


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## kayleee (Jan 5, 2016)

TheLostEmpire said:


> What kind of idiot would let their toddler or child anywhere near a gun. Those are supposed to be locked up or in a place they can't get to. Sounds more like a problem with the parents than the gun.



Yeah well those kind of idiots are the people allowed to own guns.... so


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## crystalmilktea (Jan 5, 2016)

TheLostEmpire said:


> What kind of idiot would let their toddler or child anywhere near a gun. Those are supposed to be locked up or in a place they can't get to. Sounds more like a problem with the parents than the gun.



People in the US can carry hand guns around, toddlers easily find them in adult's purses or bags. I'm sure most adults don't lock up guns very securely, or else they wouldn't be able to access them quickly when they "need" them. The problem would be with the parents having the American pro-gun mentality that guns keep them safe, therefore they should be able to have access to them. I'm sure children are killed more by hand guns than big hunting guns.


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## nintendofan85 (Jan 5, 2016)

I don't completely support gun control (due to self-defense) but I believe there should be more regulations. I don't think mentally ill people or people that have a criminal history should have a gun.


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## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

who ever says guns should be banned is an IDIOT
its not the guns that should be regulated its the crazy people

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the amount of liberalism in this thread is gross


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## crystalmilktea (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> who ever says guns should be banned is an IDIOT
> its not the guns that should be regulated its the crazy people
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> ...



Is being concerned about the _accidental_ shootings by non-crazy people such as children too liberal?


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## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

crystalmilktea said:


> Is being concerned about the _accidental_ shootings by non-crazy people such as children too liberal?



that is a valid point, however, if you arent smart enough to hide a gun from your kid, you should not be a parent.


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## KarlaKGB (Jan 5, 2016)

spoons made me fat guys


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## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

and gross was a poor word to choose
surprising is a better term


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## TheLostEmpire (Jan 5, 2016)

Well if I had a deadly weapon in my purse. I definitely would not let my kid get anywhere near it or have it just laying around. People that own a gun need to take them more seriously.


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## Beardo (Jan 5, 2016)

Drugs can be made and grown

I didn't know you could make a gun

Legalizing drugs could save lives

Legalizing guns could end them

People are going to do stupid **** no matter what


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## KarlaKGB (Jan 5, 2016)

Beardo said:


> Drugs can be made and grown
> 
> I didn't know you could make a gun
> 
> ...



it's ez to improvise a gun if u have access to the knowhow


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## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

drugs are a whole other can of worms i dont wanna get into


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## Reindeer (Jan 5, 2016)

Beardo said:


> Drugs can be made and grown
> 
> I didn't know you could make a gun
> 
> ...


Guns can easily be 3D printed.


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## KarlaKGB (Jan 5, 2016)

i could make a simple shotgun out of two lengths of pipe and a nail


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## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> Guns can easily be 3D printed.



that will be a problem in the future when 3d printers are easily accessible


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## Beardo (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> drugs are a whole other can of worms i dont wanna get into



just legalize them so people don't have to get them in dangerous ways

it's like abortion, make it illegal and people are still going to do it in dangerous ways


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## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

Beardo said:


> just legalize them so people don't have to get them in dangerous ways
> 
> it's like abortion, make it illegal and people are still going to do it in dangerous ways



i dont want to argue with you because i like you but
people can find a way to make anything dangerous


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## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

Beardo said:


> Drugs can be made and grown
> 
> I didn't know you could make a gun
> 
> ...



lol legalizing meth will totes save lives
and yes you can make a gun wtf


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## crystalmilktea (Jan 5, 2016)

TheLostEmpire said:


> Well if I had a deadly weapon in my purse. I definitely would not let my kid get anywhere near it or have it just laying around. People that own a gun need to take them more seriously.





> Over all, the largest number of deaths came at the upper end of the age range, with ages 13 and 14 being most common ? not necessarily surprising, given that parents generally allow adolescents greater access to guns.
> 
> Source:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?pagewanted=all



So who should be able to own or handle a gun? Even if you think they're old enough to handle a gun safely, accidents can always happen when guns are made a "normal" thing.


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## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

crystalmilktea said:


> So who should be able to own or handle a gun? Even if you think they're old enough to handle a gun safely, accidents can always happen when guns are made a "normal" thing.



do you know what also causes accidents?
cars
there is no regulations on cars (except age of course)
accidents happen in any way you can think of


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## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

cars are a necessity in a lot of areas tho


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## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

piichinu said:


> cars are a necessity in a lot of areas tho



valid point, but there are so many other examples of things that cause accidents that arent banned


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## Knopekin (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> do you know what also causes accidents?
> cars
> there is no regulations on cars (except age of course)
> accidents happen in any way you can think of



You have to apply for a permit, take lessons and pass a test to get a photographic license with your details which is registered on the DVLA (or American equivalent) in order to drive a car. And if you don't drive responsibly, your license is taken away.

It would be a great start if the US introduced regulations like that on guns.


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## seliph (Jan 5, 2016)

Beardo said:


> just legalize them so people don't have to get them in dangerous ways
> 
> it's like abortion, make it illegal and people are still going to do it in dangerous ways



Are you actually comparing abortions to doing drugs.



Cory said:


> valid point, but there are so many other examples of things that cause accidents that arent banned



And the vast majority of those things if not all of them have a primary use that isn't killing/harming people where as guns (with the exception of hunting guns) have no other point to them.


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## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

Knopekin said:


> You have to apply for a permit, take lessons and pass a test to get a photographic license with your details which is registered on the DVLA (or American equivalent) in order to drive a car. And if you don't drive responsibly, your license is taken away.
> 
> It would be a great start if the US introduced regulations like that on guns.



i said except age so that makes everything invalid except the last point
of course if you are an idiot you will be punished
it would be idiotic if you didnt you would become a danger to society


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## crystalmilktea (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> valid point, but there are so many other examples of things that cause accidents that arent banned



Children can so much easily kill someone with a gun than with a car...they can't even reach the gas pedal LOL.

Why do you feel that guns shouldn't be regulated? What's so important about them in your opinion?


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## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

jinico said:


> Are you actually comparing abortions to doing drugs.
> 
> 
> 
> And the vast majority of those things if not all of them have a primary use that isn't killing/harming people where as guns (with the exception of hunting guns) have no other point to them.


self defense from rabid animals, robbers, rapists

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crystalmilktea said:


> Children can so much easily kill someone with a gun than with a car...they can't even reach the gas pedal LOL.
> 
> Why do you feel that guns shouldn't be regulated? What's so important about them in your opinion?



i never said they should not be regulated, thats slander, of course you use background checks so loonies dont get guns
police have guns so they could protect people
people have guns so they can protect them self
those are the only reasons you need guns and thats what the sane people in the world get guns for


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## ZetaFunction (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> the amount of liberalism in this thread is gross



^This

My goal of this thread was to show that we need to worry more about the nutties out there and not so much the guns, to completely cure crimes.  Not pro vs anti gun-control political thread.

^this again tho.  Liberals will take anything and spiral it out of control until it isn't the original idea anymore.  I'm probably gonna get backlash from just saying this but it's the truth tbh.

Besides, why did Cain kill Abel?
Like damn, we need PEOPLE-CONTROL or ROCK-CONTROL, not gun-control.
Literally the first crime was done with rocks so smh let's ban rocks plz


----------



## KarlaKGB (Jan 5, 2016)

jinico said:


> Are you actually comparing abortions to doing drugs.
> 
> 
> 
> And the vast majority of those things if not all of them have a primary use that isn't killing/harming people where as guns (with the exception of hunting guns) have no other point to them.



heres an uncomfortable truth about life: there are some people that need to be killed


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

Lucanosa said:


> ^This
> 
> My goal of this thread was to show that we need to worry more about the nutties out there and not so much the guns, to completely cure crimes.  Not pro vs anti gun-control political thread.
> 
> ...



im going to friend request you right now


----------



## Knopekin (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> i said except age so that makes everything invalid except the last point
> of course if you are an idiot you will be punished
> it would be idiotic if you didnt you would become a danger to society



What do you mean? Age doesn't have anything to do with registering and demonstrating proficiency.



> self defense from rabid animals, robbers, rapists



I think the money would be better spent on insurance so if somebody does steal your stuff, you can just get it back, rather than murdering a human.


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

Knopekin said:


> What do you mean? Age doesn't have anything to do with registering and demonstrating proficiency.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the money would be better spent on insurance so if somebody does steal your stuff, you can just get it back, rather than murdering a human.



you dont murder them you pop them in the knee cap so they dont ever rob again


----------



## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

Lucanosa said:


> ^This
> 
> My goal of this thread was to show that we need to worry more about the nutties out there and not so much the guns, to completely cure crimes.  Not pro vs anti gun-control political thread.
> 
> ...



ok you clearly asked for opinions so why is the amount of liberals "disgusting"
+ your point isnt the only thing thats going to be posted on here since this is a _debate thread_ and you literally asked what people think

r you just mad cuz not everyones on ur side :^)


----------



## crystalmilktea (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> self defense from rabid animals, robbers, rapists
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



I don't have a gun and I feel pretty darn safe in my house in Canada. I feel safe walking around knowing that not anyone around me could be carrying a gun and suddenly or accidentally hurt me.


Lucanosa, if you expected a more pro-gun response, maybe you shouldn't post it on a forum where the majority of us aren't from USA. It's an interesting discussion seeing how you guys advocate guns, since I don't know anyone who does.


----------



## seliph (Jan 5, 2016)

Lucanosa said:


> Not pro vs anti gun-control political thread.


You really didn't see this coming?
You always start threads like this and then whine when people don't agree with you lmao like don't make threads then



KarlaKGB said:


> heres an uncomfortable truth about life: there are some people that need to be killed


I never said anything against that. But those people aren't 15 elementary school children.

Like everyone's all "but they could get guns anyways!" but I'm pretty sure the reason why the crime rate is so high is because guns are so damn easily accessible.


----------



## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

jinico said:


> Youu really didn't see this coming?
> You always start threads like this and then whine when people don't agree with you lmao like don't make threads then



this is tru all of his threads turn out like this then he calls himself brave for speaking _the truth_


----------



## seliph (Jan 5, 2016)

crystalmilktea said:


> I don't have a gun and I feel pretty darn safe in my house in Canada.



Tbh we may be more biased because our country is generally safer lmao.

Hence while I don't like the thought of people having guns at all, at least make them way harder to get


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

crystalmilktea said:


> I don't have a gun and I feel pretty darn safe in my house in Canada. I feel safe walking around knowing that not anyone around me could be carrying a gun and suddenly or accidentally hurt me.
> 
> 
> Lucanosa, if you expected a more pro-gun response, maybe you shouldn't post it on a forum where the majority of us aren't from USA. It's an interesting discussion seeing how you guys advocate guns, since I don't know anyone who does.



yes YOU feel safe
not everyone one is as fortunate as you (i admit i feel safe too) to not carry
do you understand some places are tough to live in and are dangerous?
thats why people carry guns
to feel safe
and plenty of people agree with me
but not on this forum or in the media


----------



## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

i feel like a lot of americans with guns dont even know how to use them


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

also what does living in the usa have to do with anything


----------



## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> also what does living in the usa have to do with anything



the op implies a discussion about gun control in the us i think


----------



## Acruoxil (Jan 5, 2016)

jinico said:


> I mean I see where you're coming from but you _have_ to eat
> 
> you don't have to kill people



criminals ache to kill people, they dont mind using **** like acid or knives or literally anything to get what they want.


----------



## Knopekin (Jan 5, 2016)

> Besides, why did Cain kill Abel?
> Like damn, we need PEOPLE-CONTROL or ROCK-CONTROL, not gun-control.
> Literally the first crime was done with rocks so smh let's ban rocks plz



Right, nobody paid attention the first time because why let facts get in the way of loving guns, no matter how many people they hurt.

The debate isn't even guns or criminals killing people. It's guns _or police_ killing people. Over 60 unarmed people were killed by police in the US in 2015.

No offence to Americans, but when there's another news report that _another_ kid shot up his school or the police killed _another_ unarmed black kid, causing riots, your country looks like a joke to the rest of the world.


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

piichinu said:


> the op implies a discussion about gun control in the us i think


i understand (its kinda a general question in the op tho)
also 
"maybe you shouldn't post it on a forum where the majority of us aren't from USA."
thats why america has amendments so we can say this kind of stuff

- - - Post Merge - - -



Knopekin said:


> Right, nobody paid attention the first time because why let facts get in the way of loving guns, no matter how many people they hurt.
> 
> The debate isn't even guns or criminals killing people. It's guns _or police_ killing people. Over 60 unarmed people were killed by police in the US in 2015.
> 
> No offence to Americans, but when there's another news report that _another_ kid shot up his school or the police killed _another_ unarmed black kid was killed by police, causing riots, your country looks like a joke to the rest of the world.



im sure this happens in your country
you are being so biased
the liberal media uses these deaths for restrictions on guns
and good job bring race into it like this thread wasnt heated enough


----------



## That Zephyr Guy (Jan 5, 2016)

Everyone citing the whole "well if someone really wants to kill someone they can just get a gun anyway" spiel but it's like

You can literally kill somebody with anything. Did you know you can mix together chemicals you can find in your own home and make a lethal gas that can kill people? It's not as easy to pull off as just whipping out a pistol and shooting up a crowd, but you can do it.

Just tighten the control on guns and suddenly not just _any_ wackjob can decide to shoot up a movie theater, or hold up some place in Oregon. Yeah people will still do it, but it suddenly becomes a _lot_ harder. 


"Oh but Zeph, that's not going to stop people entirely." True, Idk man it seems to have stopped people fairly well in all the other first world countries. You don't really see mass shooting happening every other week over there.

In the end it's not about completely ending homicide, cus that ain't going to happen. It's about making the task of slaughtering large quantities of other people more difficult.



This might come off as a surprise to a lot of people, but the kinds of people who are connected to the black market aren't the same kind of people who are going to rob your house randomly. If they have the kinds of connections to get in touch with the black market they probably don't care about your, comparatively, poor self. Burglars are usually dirt-poor and get their guns from, you guessed it, gun shops.


----------



## crystalmilktea (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> "maybe you shouldn't post it on a forum where the majority of us aren't from USA."
> thats why america has amendments so we can say this kind of stuff



I meant this as in we're not going agree with you when most of us come from countries who don't have guns everywhere.


----------



## That Zephyr Guy (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> im sure this happens in your country
> *you are being so biased*
> the *liberal media* uses these deaths for restrictions on guns
> and good job bring race into it like this thread wasnt heated enough



You probably shouldn't be in this thread if you're going to flat out say the guy is wrong with no reason whatsoever, while in the same sentence say the media is giving exaggerated information due to bias. Like, do you see yourself being a hypocrite or do you just not care?


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

crystalmilktea said:


> I meant this as in we're not going agree with you when most of us come from countries who don't have guns everywhere.


you need opposing views
everyone having the same view is communism
and trust me, your country has guns


----------



## Bostostar (Jan 5, 2016)

piichinu said:


> most of the arguments against gun control are stupid, embellished and provide insignificant specific cases so yeah



I'll have to disagree with you here, I was at the Pok?mon World Championship 2015. There were people who had large guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition. My friends and I who were out on a fun date could have died, we could have all been gunned down for no reason other than being there. Gun control makes it a LOT harder than just walking into an Arizona store and picking up semi automatic guns, and get this, IF YOU ARE A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN IT DOESN'T DO JACK! THAT'S RIGHT, IF YOU FOLLOW THE RULES IT WON'T AFFECT YOU!

EDIT: Sorry, this is kind of a big deal to me.


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

That Zephyr Guy said:


> You probably shouldn't be in this thread if you're going to flat out say the guy is wrong with no reason whatsoever, while in the same sentence say the media is giving exaggerated information due to bias. Like, do you see yourself being a hypocrite or do you just not care?



what state do you think i am from?
answer the question truthfully
actually, everyone answer i want to prove something

- - - Post Merge - - -



Bostostar said:


> I'll have to disagree with you here, I was at the Pok?mon World Championship 2015. There were people who had large guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition. My friends and I who were out on a fun date could have died, we could have all been gunned down for no reason other than being there. Gun control makes it a LOT harder than just walking into an Arizona store and picking up semi automatic guns, and get this, IF YOU ARE A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN IT DOESN'T DO JACK! THAT'S RIGHT, IF YOU FOLLOW THE RULES IT WON'T AFFECT YOU!
> 
> EDIT: Sorry, this is kind of a big deal to me.



not sure what your view is lol


----------



## ToxiFoxy (Jan 5, 2016)

> Then knives are restricted. What next, sporks and heavy cast iron frying pans!?  Lawl probably.





> Mainly criminals.  It's called the black market.  *You can't stop them entirely, or much at all even, unless you literally go house to house and melt them all.*



Can I just take a moment and laugh at this. I know this is serious but its funny how true it is that people would result in using those things as weapons. And the melting them all is kinda funny too. Ok do not hate me just ignore this.

In my opinion, it IS the criminal because, say you yourself were a criminal, you kill people, you are the one who pulls the trigger or uses the knife. If you were a criminal and those things were taken away you wouldn't just stop, you would find something else to kill someone with. So honestly getting rid of those things wouldn't help as much as trying to stop the criminals themselves.


----------



## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

Bostostar said:


> I'll have to disagree with you here, I was at the Pok?mon World Championship 2015. There were people who had large guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition. My friends and I who were out on a fun date could have died, we could have all been gunned down for no reason other than being there. Gun control makes it a LOT harder than just walking into an Arizona store and picking up semi automatic guns, and get this, IF YOU ARE A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN IT DOESN'T DO JACK! THAT'S RIGHT, IF YOU FOLLOW THE RULES IT WON'T AFFECT YOU!
> 
> EDIT: Sorry, this is kind of a big deal to me.



why were you at a pokemon world championship and i legit have no idea what you're saying


----------



## epona (Jan 5, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> cool story bro
> 
> For real though, did you forget that just a few years ago, Dublin was considered the "gun murder capital" of Europe, that Irish authorities have seized over 1000 illegal weapons in Ireland since 2005, and that gun crime is actually on the rise in Ireland? You can say "nobody has guns in Ireland", but 5 seconds on Google shows how awfully wrong that statement is.
> 
> I'll admit the numbers are tiny compared to the US. However, the gun legislation of Ireland is lax compared to other European countries.




'cool story bro' wow there's a way to start a convincing argument
of course there's gun crime in ireland, there's gun crime in every country? when i say nobody owns a gun i mean people don't just own them for 'self-defense' reasons, if you own a gun here (unless as i said it's for hunting) then you're a criminal to begin with so that's moot point
why don't you tell me again when our last mass-shooting was? when was the last time some teenager in ireland took his dad's gun from the wardrobe and shot up his school?



why are people even using the 'people will find ways to obtain guns anyway regulating them isn't going to stop people owning them' argument
like.... if you're going to employ that logic then to hell with the whole legal system??? why do we even have laws if people will just break them anyway???? let's just live in total anarchy because you'll never get 100% obedience


----------



## crystalmilktea (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> you need opposing views
> everyone having the same view is communism
> and trust me, your country has guns



Then don't complain about us being too liberal and gross/surprising? We definitely don't have guns "everywhere", as I said. No normal Canadian citizen walks around with a handgun for protection. We call those the crazies.


----------



## That Zephyr Guy (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> what state do you think i am from?
> answer the question truthfully
> actually, everyone answer i want to prove something



That literally has nothing to do with anything going on here?

Like man if you think political affiliation = state location then idk what to say about you.

Judging by how smug you are, I'm assuming you live in the north and you have these views so that you can be different compared to all the 'dang hiveminded liberals' around you


----------



## ToxiFoxy (Jan 5, 2016)

Knopekin said:


> Right, nobody paid attention the first time because why let facts get in the way of loving guns, no matter how many people they hurt.
> 
> The debate isn't even guns or criminals killing people. It's guns _or police_ killing people. Over 60 unarmed people were killed by police in the US in 2015.
> 
> No offence to Americans, but when there's another news report that _another_ kid shot up his school or the police killed _another_ unarmed black kid was killed by police, causing riots, your country looks like a joke to the rest of the world.


Its not offensive at all in my opinion. It does make us look like a joke and some people in America just see at as another thing that happened because it isn't entirely uncommon for some of these things to happen.


----------



## oath2order (Jan 5, 2016)

Knopekin said:


> It's a different debate entirely, but the links between masculinity and crime (and, also related to guns, masculinity and suicide) are documented across sociology, psychology and criminology.
> 
> I'm definitely with you on providing adequate mental health services, but it shouldn't be either/or.



Given that a majority of mass shootings can be blamed on mental health issues, I would say that yes, it can be either/or.


----------



## Knopekin (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> im sure this happens in your country
> you are being so biased



There has been one school shooting in UK history, the Dunblane Massacre, in 1996.



> Public debate about the killings centred on gun control laws, including public petitions calling for a ban on private ownership of handguns and an official enquiry, the Cullen Report. In response to this debate, two new firearms Acts were passed, which effectively made private ownership of handguns illegal in Great Britain.



In 2005 the police shot an unarmed Brazilian man following the 7/7 bombings on the London Underground. The Independent Police Complaints Commission launched two investigations, thousands of people held a vigil, and it was a PR disaster for the police.



> the liberal media uses these deaths for restrictions on guns



Yes they do. Thousands of people dying because of a thing is a good reason to put restrictions on the thing.


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

That Zephyr Guy said:


> That literally has nothing to do with anything going on here?
> 
> Like man if you think political affiliation = state location then idk what to say about you.
> 
> Judging by how smug you are, I'm assuming you live in the north and you have these views so that you can be different compared to all the 'dang hiveminded liberals' around you



i am from new york
i know they have nothing to do with eachother
and you call me smug really?
i have so many things to say to you right now, but i wont, because i promised i would control my anger this year


----------



## Reindeer (Jan 5, 2016)

epona said:


> 'cool story bro' wow there's a way to start a convincing argument
> of course there's gun crime in ireland, there's gun crime in every country? when i say nobody owns a gun i mean people don't just own them for 'self-defense' reasons, if you own a gun here (unless as i said it's for hunting) then you're a criminal to begin with so that's moot point
> why don't you tell me again when our last mass-shooting was? when was the last time some teenager in ireland took his dad's gun from the wardrobe and shot up his school?


"NOBODY has guns in ireland!!!"
"OF COURSE people have guns in ireland!!!"

so which is it
because all i see here is damage control


----------



## Red Cat (Jan 5, 2016)

This thread has officially gone to hell. Remember folks, computers don't kill threads, Cory kills threads.


----------



## ToxiFoxy (Jan 5, 2016)

piichinu said:


> why were you at a pokemon world championship and i legit have no idea what you're saying




Ikr same thing here, I do not think you would actually see people walking around with large guns and ammunition like that doesn't even make sense. Those people would have to be extremely stupid to walk around in daylight like that.


----------



## seliph (Jan 5, 2016)

Bostostar said:


> I'll have to disagree with you here, I was at the Pok?mon World Championship 2015. There were people who had large guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition. My friends and I who were out on a fun date could have died, we could have all been gunned down for no reason other than being there. Gun control makes it a LOT harder than just walking into an Arizona store and picking up semi automatic guns, and get this, IF YOU ARE A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN IT DOESN'T DO JACK! THAT'S RIGHT, IF YOU FOLLOW THE RULES IT WON'T AFFECT YOU!
> 
> EDIT: Sorry, this is kind of a big deal to me.



I read this four times and I still have no idea what the **** you're trying to say I'm sorry


----------



## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

jinico said:


> I read this four times and I still have no idea what the **** you're trying to say I'm sorry



he'll have to disagree with me there to later go on about why he agrees with me


----------



## oath2order (Jan 5, 2016)

jinico said:


> I read this four times and I still have no idea what the **** you're trying to say I'm sorry



I think he's ranting about people who bring guns to places where they shouldn't be, like the Pok?mon World Championship 2015.


----------



## crystalmilktea (Jan 5, 2016)

Red Cat said:


> This thread has officially gone to hell. Remember folks, computers don't kill threads, Cory kills threads.



If we're going with this argument, then if any of the people who have previously posted here suddenly made an extremely racist and graphic post, the thread would be closed not because the person posted in the thread, but because of that post that's against the rules~


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

crystalmilktea said:


> If we're going with this argument, then if any of the people who have previously posted here suddenly made an extremely racist and graphic post, the thread would be closed not because the person posted in the thread, but because of that post that's against the rules~



are you defending me?


----------



## epona (Jan 5, 2016)

Reindeer said:


> "NOBODY has guns in ireland!!!"
> "OF COURSE people have guns in ireland!!!"
> 
> so which is it
> because all i see here is damage control



and all i see is nitpicking because you have nothing else to say and it's making you look quite silly
i already clarified that i meant no ordinary law-abiding citizen owns a gun, if you own a gun you're already breaking the law and are already a criminal


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

jinico said:


> Thank
> 
> 
> "I promised to control my anger"
> "you piece of garbage"



i said much worse originally but i deleted it


----------



## That Zephyr Guy (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> really you piece of garbage
> i say my views
> i get attacked for it
> not that i care
> ...



Controlling that anger of yours super well there friend


----------



## boujee (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> i said much worse originally but i deleted it




proud of you


----------



## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

oath2order said:


> I think he's ranting about people who bring guns to places where they shouldn't be, like the Pok?mon World Championship 2015.



so y is he disagreeing with me there


----------



## ToxiFoxy (Jan 5, 2016)

This thread is really blowing up with arguments lmao


----------



## crystalmilktea (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> are you defending me?



I think that was a bit of a silly statement, but this:



Cory said:


> really you piece of garbage
> i say my views
> i get attacked for it
> not that i care
> ...



worries me because you're angry and pro-gun. You've disagreed with me but I haven't taken it as attacking or gotten angry, I just was curious as to what your opinions were on reasons to own a gun.


----------



## Knopekin (Jan 5, 2016)

oath2order said:


> Given that a majority of mass shootings can be blamed on mental health issues, I would say that yes, it can be either/or.



You'll notice that I cited studies and facts in my reply. I've had a look and can't find anything that supports that "a majority" of perpetrators have mental health issues, in fact quite the opposite:




			
				American Journal of Public Health said:
			
		

> Yet surprisingly little population-level evidence supports the notion that individuals diagnosed with mental illness are more likely than anyone else to commit gun crimes. According to Appelbaum, less than 3% to 5% of US crimes involve people with mental illness, and the percentages of crimes that involve guns are lower than the national average for persons not diagnosed with mental illness. Databases that track gun homicides, such as the National Center for Health Statistics, similarly show that fewer than 5% of the 120 000 gun-related killings in the United States between 2001 and 2010 were perpetrated by people diagnosed with mental illness.



Academic studies here, here, and here.


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

ToxiFoxy said:


> This thread is really blowing up with arguments lmao



people dont know how to debate
i came in here looking for a nice debate but now
the 12 year olds came in with their reta- belief that they know what is going on in the world


----------



## oath2order (Jan 5, 2016)

Knopekin said:


> You'll notice that I cited studies and facts in my reply. I've had a look and can't find anything that supports that "a majority" of perpetrators have mental health issues, in fact quite the opposite:
> 
> 
> 
> Academic studies here, here, and here.



ok

men are evil and are all mass shooters you're totally right


----------



## Reindeer (Jan 5, 2016)

epona said:


> and all i see is nitpicking because you have nothing else to say and it's making you look quite silly
> i already clarified that i meant no ordinary law-abiding citizen owns a gun, if you own a gun you're already breaking the law and are already a criminal


It's not nitpicking when your entire point revolved around "nobody" owning guns, "guns are not seen" in Ireland "at all". You made a broad and false claim, I just pointed out how awfully wrong you were in making it, in response to which you changed face. I've never seen a gun on anyone but a police officer here, but if I were to go "no guns seen here at all!!" when there's plenty news reports about people being gunned down in their own home or by a gang in the streets, I'd just be a hypocrite.

- - - Post Merge - - -



oath2order said:


> ok
> 
> men are evil and are all mass shooters you're totally right


only cis white men though


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

crystalmilktea said:


> I think that was a bit of a silly statement, but this:
> 
> 
> 
> worries me because you're angry and pro-gun. You've disagreed with me but I haven't taken it as attacking or gotten angry, I just was curious as to what your opinions were on reasons to own a gun.


you know what? thank you, you have remained civilized
i am not "pro-gun" i believe that there should not be additional regulation on guns. guns have their purpose. and they can save lives in the right hands. but in the wrong hands... well thats the problem


----------



## That Zephyr Guy (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> people dont know how to debate
> i came in here looking for a nice debate but now
> the 12 year olds came in with their [s/]reta-[/s] belief that they know what is going on in the world



"People don't know how to debate"

Previously

"The information you said is wrong because I said so" Burden of proof (You have to prove it wrong, not them)

"You're stupid" Ad Hominem (Attacking someone's character not their argument)




Like man at least try to convince us you actually wanna debate stuff. You come into these threads all the time cracking jokes about liberals and thinking you're taking yourself seriously when all you really do is get mad at everyone when they don't automatically agree with you. Maybe you should think twice before calling everyone around you 12 year olds when I think we all know who really has to grow up here.


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

you own a gun for self defense. people in "less developed" areas want this so they feel safe.


----------



## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

guys we r directing our attention towards the wrong person


----------



## seliph (Jan 5, 2016)

Knopekin said:


> You'll notice that I cited studies and facts in my reply. I've had a look and can't find anything that supports that "a majority" of perpetrators have mental health issues, in fact quite the opposite:



I'm js I really don't think people who don't have a mental issue (whether diagnosed or not) of some sort would murder someone



Cory said:


> people dont know how to debate
> i came in here looking for a nice debate but now
> the 12 year olds came in with their [s/]reta-[/s] belief that they know what is going on in the world



You disagreed with me therefore you have no idea what's going on in the world!


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

That Zephyr Guy said:


> "People don't know how to debate"
> 
> Previously
> 
> ...



i did not get mad while trying to debate, scumbags people like you made me mad, insulting my character instead of my argument


----------



## Izzy Reincarnated (Jan 5, 2016)

guns are stupid


----------



## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> i did not get mad while trying to debate, scumbags people like you made me mad, insulting my character instead of my argument



cory


----------



## Knopekin (Jan 5, 2016)

oath2order said:


> ok
> 
> men are evil and are all mass shooters you're totally right



No, I never meant to suggest that at all; toxic masculinity _hurts_ men (it's why so many men commit suicide!), and support and resources need to be dedicated to help disenfranchised (but not necessarily mentally ill) young men.


----------



## Izzy Reincarnated (Jan 5, 2016)

guns should get banned


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

and if the mods close this it will be a sad day because it will be the day where attempted intelligent conversation will die and threads like how often do you fart live on


----------



## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

i think if u get a gun for self defense you should not be allowed to buy more than 3 bullets tbhtbhtbh


----------



## Bostostar (Jan 5, 2016)

piichinu said:


> why were you at a pokemon world championship and i legit have no idea what you're saying



Because the World championship was in Boston, which is close by. I'm sorry you don't understand, it'd help you understand why I THINK gun control is good.


----------



## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

also if u wanna target practice use a pellet gun or go to a shooting range

as for hunting u should only b able to rent specific hunting guns


----------



## Cory (Jan 5, 2016)

piichinu said:


> i think if u get a gun for self defense you should not be allowed to buy more than 3 bullets tbhtbhtbh



that seems a bit extreme tbh


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## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

Bostostar said:


> Because the World championship was in Boston, which is close by. I'm sorry you don't understand, it'd help you understand why I THINK gun control is good.



i said it was good can u read


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## Beardo (Jan 5, 2016)

Everything is dangerous, but if there's a way to at least try to prevent some very powerful, very dangerous tools getting into the wrong hands, it should be tried. It won't solve all of the issues, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt.


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## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

but only rent guns during season not out of season


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## piichinu (Jan 5, 2016)

Cory said:


> that seems a bit extreme tbh



3 bullets a month hope u dont lose them


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