# Can we talk about Dueping on here?



## falcons18 (Sep 3, 2013)

On another site you can't talk about it but can you talk about it on here and if you can anyone want to become my Dueping buddy thats trustworthy


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## Swiftstream (Sep 3, 2013)

Duping is cheating.


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## kittenrobotarmy (Sep 3, 2013)

If I recall, we are not allowed to talk about it because it is considered a form of cheating.


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## falcons18 (Sep 3, 2013)

o ok same thing on another site owell thx anyway!


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## Mao (Sep 3, 2013)

falcons18 said:


> o ok same thing on another site owell thx anyway!



Which site? And like the others said, nope.


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## Bones (Sep 3, 2013)

As duping is actually cheating.. no. I don't see why anyone would want such a thing to be discussed.


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## Divo (Sep 3, 2013)

Bones said:


> As duping is actually cheating..



I am actually wiling to contest this.

Further more...who cares if it's cheating? That doesn't necessarily justify banning of it's discussion. It's not _harmful_, and it's other people's games. Let people do what they want.


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## beebs (Sep 3, 2013)

Divo said:


> I am actually wiling to contest this.
> 
> Further more...who cares if it's cheating? That doesn't necessarily justify banning of it's discussion. It's not _harmful_, and it's other people's games. Let people do what they want.



This ^

At first I thought it was cheating, but then I realized I was just being influenced by others' opinions. When I thought about it for myself, I came to the conclusion that it doesn't hurt anybody. Sure, some set go down in price, but personally I would rather pay 2m for a 7-11 set then the crazy 30m+ they were going for in auctions. It's all digital money anyways. It has no worth in the real world. I wouldn't dupe myself because I value my save file too much, but I appreciate dupers. They actually *help* us get the neat-o rare stuff. You would be surprised how many of the give-a-aways are dupers just helping out their fellow players.


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## radical6 (Sep 3, 2013)

theres a popular ac blog on tumblr thats working on duping 7/11 sets and giving them away to everyone
for free

yes, it will bring down the prices by a lot. but who the heck wants to pay 30 million for store set. i mean, i want some of the 7/11 set but i won't offer that much 

i personally won't dupe because i'll either 
a. mess up and lose the items
b. corrupt my save file

though people here really do not like the idea of duping, so you probably won't get people to help you. sorry


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## Byngo (Sep 3, 2013)

tsundere said:


> though people here really do not like the idea of duping, so you probably won't get people to help you. sorry



Yep, quite a few people are on their high horses on this forum. One person in particular, who shall remain nameless, says in their signature: "I don't cheat (time travel/duplicate). It takes all the fun out of this game, then you just wasted 40 bucks on a game that you beat by cheating." 

I'm like... Get over yourself. They're stating it as if it's a fact, when it is in fact an opinion. Then I just now thought, wait, waiit, Animal Crossing can't be beat. It doesn't have an end. LOL.


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## Zanessa (Sep 3, 2013)

Conversations like this is probably why the talk of duping is not allowed. People argue over it. "It's wrong, it's right, it's okay". .-.


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## Divo (Sep 3, 2013)

I find the argument that duping one-time DLC sets like the 7-11 set is "cheating" to be laughable.

As opposed to the legitimate means of obtaining it (happening to have been born in the right country, at the right time, to get it).

Yes, you worked _so hard_ to get it. *rollseyes*


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## kittenrobotarmy (Sep 3, 2013)

tsundere said:


> i personally won't dupe because i'll either
> a. mess up and lose the items
> b. corrupt my save file
> 
> though people here really do not like the idea of duping, so you probably won't get people to help you. sorry


You won't lose items and there is little chance you'll corrupt your save. 

I don't see why people don't like it. It's all pixels people! If someone wants a duping buddy, I'm always here! It's not a big deal. I really don't get it...

But staff, just because it is cheating, why are we basically banned from talking about it? Why can't we at least have the right to talk about it and have no one yell at us?


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## Divo (Sep 3, 2013)

I mean, ultimately, accusations of cheating when duping boil down to nothing more than putting up arbitrary requirements to play a game "legitimately" as opposed to _having fun_. AC is not a competitive game. No one is being wronged by the existence of duplication.

And before anyone starts complaining about the economy, AC _doesn't have a real economy_. Money is infinite, resources are infinite, inflation is inevitable.

Unless you're advocating for restricting resources for people, complaints about the economy are just inane nonsense.


And really, again, all this does is generate arbitrary nonsense, making the game less fun for others. Some people don't care about the "legitimacy" some of you hold so dear. Some people just want to decorate a house and live a life, and have fun playing the game. There's nothing wrong with that, and to try and shame others for doing so, and banning discussions of doing so, is nothing more than greedy, capitalistic, elitist nonsense invading a _children's video game_. It's disgraceful.


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## Brabus E73 (Sep 3, 2013)

ZanessaGaily said:


> *Conversations like this is probably why* the talk of duping is not allowed. *People argue over it.* "It's wrong, it's right, it's okay". .-.



This.


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## Farobi (Sep 3, 2013)

inb4 mods lock cause duping is cheating :/


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## Divo (Sep 3, 2013)

Brabus E73 said:


> This.



So the solution to discrimination, is discrimination?

That seems rather silly on the mods part.


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## LVXIII (Sep 3, 2013)

Wow, and I didn't even have a clue what duping was before I entered this thread. I'll say the same thing about this as I say about selling villagers, ridiculous prices and time travelling. It's just a bloody game folks. The point is to have fun. Personally, I don't do any of the above. For me, that's not fun. (Although the thought of own the 7/11 set is extremely tempting.) To each's own. I'm not gonna pay millions for items but if others want to, they're perfectly welcome to.


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## rosiebelle (Sep 3, 2013)

ZanessaGaily said:


> Conversations like this is probably why the talk of duping is not allowed. People argue over it. "It's wrong, it's right, it's okay". .-.



Very good point there; it ultimately comes down to questions of morality (pretty heavy stuff) and the mods on this site have just smartly bypassed it by saying 'nope' to the whole matter.


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## Divo (Sep 3, 2013)

rosiebelle said:


> Very good point there; it ultimately comes down to questions of morality (pretty heavy stuff) and the mods on this site have just smartly bypassed it by saying 'nope' to the whole matter.



I heavily disagree that going "nope" is smart or wise. Rather, it is cowardly and immoral.

Discrimination to protect from discrimination is completely idiotic.


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## Bones (Sep 3, 2013)

Divo said:


> I find the argument that duping one-time DLC sets like the 7-11 set is "cheating" to be laughable.
> 
> As opposed to the legitimate means of obtaining it (happening to have been born in the right country, at the right time, to get it).
> 
> Yes, you worked _so hard_ to get it. *rollseyes*



Except that most dupers don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts - they do it because they want to dupe rare items to sell.

If somebody did it simply because they wanted to say screw you to limited items and give them out to people who could not otherwise obtain them, then I completely understand.

But people like that are very rare, which is why the general consensus is duping = bad. And rightfully so.


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## rosiebelle (Sep 3, 2013)

Divo said:


> I heavily disagree that going "nope" is smart or wise. Rather, it is cowardly and immoral.
> 
> Discrimination to protect from discrimination is completely idiotic.



And taking on the challenge of trying to pin down whether taking advantage of a cheat in the game is immoral or moral sounds easy to you? The mods made the decision it's not fair/moral so said no to it; no exceptions. 

The mods have made the decision they just don't want it on this particular site which reflects quite a lot of the views of users on this forums. For me personality I'm not condemning the people who do dupe, being quite honest I'm completely neutral on the topic; don't mind people who do it but don't participate in it myself.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Bones said:


> But people like that are very rare, which is why the general consensus is duping = bad. And rightfully so.



^_this sadly_ ):


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## Divo (Sep 3, 2013)

Bones said:


> Except that most dupers don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts - they do it because they want to dupe rare items to sell.



And this is a problem...why?

If someone is willing to pay obscene amounts of money for something, because they want to no less, why should we care how one obtains the item to sell to them?




> If somebody did it simply because they wanted to say screw you to limited items and give them out to people who could not otherwise obtain them, then I completely understand.
> 
> But people like that are very rare, which is why the general consensus is duping = bad. And rightfully so.



Not at all. There is not a single legitimate reason to harp on people who duplicate. That some duplicate for profit is not a problem. It's no where near shame worthy.

- - - Post Merge - - -



rosiebelle said:


> And taking on the challenge of trying to pin down whether taking advantage of a cheat in the game is immoral or moral sounds easy to you?



I never said it was easy; though I do believe I have come to the proper conclusion, and am more than willing to hash it out with anyone who disagrees. I think you will find my logic wholly superior.




> The mods made the decision it's not fair/moral so said no to it; no exceptions.



I fail to see how this matters at all. "The mods say so" doesn't _actually_ mean anything. It doesn't make duping actually immoral, and it doesn't actually make it ban worthy. Mods are not gods, they are not perfect, and their wisdom and decision making is perfectly open to critique.




> The mods have made the decision they just don't want it on this particular site which reflects quite a lot of the views of users on this forums.



Again, useless authoritarian nonsense. "The mods say so" does not justify the mods decision, nor the views of, what you claim to be, most people of the site. Their views are wrong.




> For me personality I'm not condemning the people who do dupe, being quite honest I'm completely neutral on the topic; don't mind people who do it but don't participate in it myself.



Which seems to be the attitude of everyone who has posted in this topic...so I question that such negative views of duping are held by "most" of the community.


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## rosiebelle (Sep 3, 2013)

I never said the mods were gods, they're just users who run the site in an effective and friendly manner that provide a happy community to most people who want to enjoy the game. Happily critique their decision - I never mentioned anywhere the mods=gods, debate with them if you like and I'm sure they're very happy to respond to you as to why they don't agree duping is appropriate on this site. If you're so insistant their views are 'wrong' - take it up with them

Generally this board isn't a good slice of life when it comes to providing evidence of the general attitude for the boards, you've initiated a debate so generally mature users who see good points on both sides of an argument will post. When you make a question about the _majority_ of the trading community, I'll use a quick casestudy - didn't you try posting whether anyone was interesting in duping just days ago on the trade boards at a very busy time? How many responses of interest did you get? None from what I could see on the board. Well-known traders pointed to the rules and said they weren't interested in cheating.


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## Divo (Sep 3, 2013)

rosiebelle said:


> I never said the mods were gods, they're just users who run the site in an effective and friendly manner that provide a happy community to most people who want to enjoy the game.



And they are evidently not doing this, when banning discussion of duplicating.




> Happily critique their decision - I never mentioned anywhere the mods=gods, debate with them if you like and I'm sure they're very happy to respond to you as to why they don't agree duping is appropriate on this site. If you're so insistant their views are 'wrong' - take it up with them.



I am more than happy to (and attempting to do so with them and others here). But it seemed to me you were implying earlier that "the mods say so, so it's gonna be this way". Am I incorrect in that assessment?




> Generally this board isn't a good slice of life when it comes to providing evidence of the general attitude for the boards, you've initiated a debate so generally mature users who see good points on both sides of an argument will post. When you make a question about the _majority_ of the trading community, I'll use a quick casestudy - didn't you try posting whether anyone was interesting in duping just days ago on the trade boards at a very busy time? How many responses of interest did you get? None from what I could see on the board. Well-known traders pointed to the rules and said they weren't interested in cheating.



Actually I was asking if anyone wanted to trade gold roses with me, because I was too lazy to duplicate them myself. So just the opposite actually, I wasn't asking to dupe, and yet, by the mere mention of the term, the topic was filled with nothing but elitist snobbery it seemed. Which is even worse than what you are implying. Point taken.


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## rosiebelle (Sep 3, 2013)

Divo said:


> I am more than happy to (and attempting to do so with them and others here). But it seemed to me you were implying earlier that "the mods say so, so it's gonna be this way". Am I incorrect in that assessment?



^^ I'm not saying the mods are perfect or always right in the way they run the site, however many times I've seen individual mods deal with some very tricky and generally nasty situations between users very well compared to other mods on other sites - take the way the mods on ACC deal with villager trading for example. Generally the users have reached a general consensus to agree with the mods that duping is technically cheating so I'm going to say that I agree with the majority, not in the sense that I'm blindly following the herd, but simply because my view already reflected what the mods had instated.

I'm not agreeing with the mods _because_the mods say so, I had thought this way before I ended up on belltree having my fair share of looking around ACC, Reddit, Gamefaqs. The mods have generally reflected most of my views on certain issues throughout my time here so I generally trust them to instate rules that I might come to myself if I were in their position.

Hm, yes; generally the people on that forums were under the impression that duping=cheating=bad and that duping can potentially damage your game, even in some cases duping=cheating=scamming - a generally incorrect assumption but it would explain your board's effect.

edit/ hello to the lurkers out there - i see you. (◕‿◕✿)


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## beffa (Sep 3, 2013)

what's the damn point in duping geez where's the fun in cheating your stuff rather than earning it. i mean i TT, so i haven't earned a lot of my stuff but i give a lot away because of it like dang flabbit don't dupe just because you want more pixel money like that's hella dumb


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## rosiebelle (Sep 3, 2013)

beffa said:


> what's the damn point in duping geez where's the fun in cheating your stuff rather than earning it. i mean i TT, so i haven't earned a lot of my stuff but i give a lot away because of it like dang flabbit don't dupe just because you want more pixel money like that's hella dumb



0.0 wut


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## beffa (Sep 3, 2013)

rosiebelle said:


> 0.0 wut



lel sorry i'm tired


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## rosiebelle (Sep 3, 2013)

beffa said:


> lel sorry i'm tired



I think it's time you went to bed before the grammar police attack. Okay?


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## Divo (Sep 3, 2013)

rosiebelle said:


> ^^ I'm not saying the mods are perfect or always right in the way they run the site, however many times I've seen individual mods deal with some very tricky and generally nasty situations between users very well compared to other mods on other sites - take the way the mods on ACC



Which shall not speak of that cursed place. >.>

But seriously, I hate the staff of that damn website. They're flippin nazis. They permabanned me because I was criticizing a decision of theirs, and they did so by going through my private messages, and banning me for a conversation I was having with another member about our mutual dislike of the staff. They are some of the most corrupt *******s I've ever met on the internet. I only ever used that website for their online catalog anyway really, and now that the ACNL app is up and running fully, and ACC can't get it's catalog of the ground, I have no reason to go back ever. I'm glad to be rid of that place.




> Generally the users have reached a general consensus to agree with the mods that duping is technically cheating so I'm going to say that I agree with the majority, not in the sense that I'm blindly following the herd, but simply because my view already reflected what the mods had instated.



I am more than willing to contest that it is cheating, mainly because I hold there is a large difference between "cheating", "exploiting", and "utilizing".

And even so, if it is cheating, that does not justify the banning of it's discussion on the boards.



> Hm, yes; generally the people on that forums were under the impression that duping=cheating=bad and that duping can potentially damage your game



There are a lot of rumors about loss of save data and file corruption, but really, the only actual substantiated accounts are when one powers off the game while saving, instead of flicking the wifi switch off. Which makes sense when you think about it, considering the game tells you in big letters _not to power off the system while saving_, haha. But so long as you do it properly, the risk of file corruption is no different than if the connection dropped normally; i.e., nil.


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## beffa (Sep 3, 2013)

rosiebelle said:


> I think it's time you went to bed before the grammar police attack. Okay?



LOL it's okay, I don't usually type like...that. It's like 2:30am here ;_;


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## Divo (Sep 3, 2013)

beffa said:


> what's the damn point in duping geez where's the fun in cheating your stuff rather than earning it.



Because for some people, the fun isn't the "earning" part, but the "living" part. Some people do not find having to go through the effort of waiting for random items to cycle through shops, and earning lots of money, to be "fun". For some people, "fun" is decorating their homes and living with their neighbors.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. AC is not a competitive game, no one is being wronged if some people choose to go through the effort of collecting things, and some don't.




> i mean i TT, so i haven't earned a lot of my stuff



I disagree. You've still earned it; you just haven't waited long enough to get it all "normally".

Consider this: Every year, on New Year's, a different zodiac item becomes available for you to pick up from Isabelle. If you wanted to complete your catalog without time travel, you would have to wait *twelve years* before you could complete your catalog.

In City Folk, there were New Year's shirts that they had for every year; even years prior to the game's release. In order to get all of these "legitimately", you would have to wait until the Wii's internal clock maxed out and looped back t the year 2000. Which it still hasn't done, and won't do, for several *several* years from now.


This is why I find "legitimacy" to be such an inane, stupid argument. It's nothing more than forcing a set of arbitrary requirements on people that make them, on some occasions, go through completely asinine requirements before they can have something they desire, and could have obtained much more simply by other means. All it does is take away from the fun of the game in these scenarios, so to tote it around like some objectively good standard is delusional. Abide by it if you wish; but it's asinine to expect everyone else to as well.




> don't dupe just because you want more pixel money like that's hella dumb



I disagree with this as well. Consider this: The maximum Post Office reward comes from saving 100M in your bank. Saving more than that nets you nothing but personal satisfaction and storage. There's no "reward" for maxing your bank account at that point. So beyond 100M, what is the "legitimacy" argument for why people should not dupe, say, royal crowns, and sell them for high prices at retail, in order to max their bank account out? I contend there isn't a single decent one.


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## radical6 (Sep 3, 2013)

eh i dont think you should dupe a rare set and sell them for so much. thats kinda unfair tbh like? selling them so crazy and then duping another set is really unfair. theyre expensive because they're rare & hard to obtain. 

if you sell em for less or even better - give them away, then keep it up i guess?? idk

and wow i didnt know there was a small chance of ruining the file... oh well i still wouldn't do it?? yeah


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## beffa (Sep 3, 2013)

Divo said:


> Because for some people, the fun isn't the "earning" part, but the "living" part. Some people do not find having to go through the effort of waiting for random items to cycle through shops, and earning lots of money, to be "fun". For some people, "fun" is decorating their homes and living with their neighbors.
> 
> And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. AC is not a competitive game, no one is being wronged if some people choose to go through the effort of collecting things, and some don't.
> 
> ...



;___; Okay okay... You got me. Thanks for that, that's actually kind of swayed me.


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## Divo (Sep 3, 2013)

tsundere said:


> eh i dont think you should dupe a rare set and sell them for so much. thats kinda unfair tbh like? selling them so crazy and then duping another set is really unfair. theyre expensive because they're rare hard to obtain.



I fail to see how it's unfair in the least. The reason they have ridiculously high prices is because people want to make massive amounts of money by selling the, and there are people, with massive amounts of money, willing to give that money away for those items. That one duped for the item instead of going by other means does not seem to impact that trade in any significant way. Your complaint seems to be that some people are making money faster than others. What a ridiculously petty complaint.

Duping rare sets is no different than buying multiple sets, or in the case of one-time DLC, creating multiple characters to get the DLC several times (which many people in Europe did when that one ice cream lamp item came out).


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## kittenrobotarmy (Sep 3, 2013)

Allow me to butt in for a moment. 

Duping is worse than TT, sure. That doesn't mean it should be banned from being talked about. I think you've forgotten some important things:
-Duping is a GLITCH, not a CHEAT. 
-It's all pixels, people.
-I don't see why people are giving dupers crap. THEY didn't make the glitch or discover it. 
-Glitches are not intended. Cheats are. See the difference? 

I'll just lurk this thread now. Remind yourselves, is this really even important? Why can't we all get along?


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## Divo (Sep 3, 2013)

Kippla said:


> Allow me to butt in for a moment.
> 
> Duping is worse than TT, sure.



I'm not exactly sure why you consider this to be so. Exploiting a glitch and exploiting a functionality of the internal clock seems to be to be the same kind of "evil" (if you can even call it that), that being exploitation of the way the game functions.




> Remind yourselves, is this really even important? Why can't we all get along?



Yes, it is important. Why? Because it's a philosophical matter of justice and morality. If some people want to discuss an activity, and possibly make plans to do said activity, what is you justification for stripping them of this freedom? What is your justification for denying them this happiness?

Without a sound one, to do so is an injustice, and immoral.


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## radical6 (Sep 3, 2013)

Divo said:


> I fail to see how it's unfair in the least. The reason they have ridiculously high prices is because people want to make massive amounts of money by selling the, and there are people, with massive amounts of money, willing to give that money away for those items. That one duped for the item instead of going by other means does not seem to impact that trade in any significant way. Your complaint seems to be that some people are making money faster than others. What a ridiculously petty complaint.
> 
> Duping rare sets is no different than buying multiple sets, or in the case of one-time DLC, creating multiple characters to get the DLC several times (which many people in Europe did when that one ice cream lamp item came out).



but like?? i mean if you dupe like 30 7/11 sets and sell them for like 30 million thats kinda unfair? the reason why these sets are so rare and hard to obtain is because they're hard to get. when you have tons of them it kinda loses the reason why it was so hard to obtain in the first place. which kinda makes the price go down?? i mean i wouldnt mind if you sold them for 2 million because hey thats kinda cheap for some people and some people can afford that

i dont really care if someone is richer than me but in my eyes thats unfair?? sorry. i don't have problem if you maybe have like 4 of them from having a side character and getting 7/11 sets. cool. whatever


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## Divo (Sep 3, 2013)

tsundere said:


> but like?? i mean if you dupe like 30 7/11 sets and sell them for like 30 million thats kinda unfair?



Why? The result is no different than if they had only one set and sold it for 30 million. There is a seller and a buyer, and they have a price they agree upon.

Really, selling having multiple duped sets just means more people can buy it for 30 million, meaning more people can be happy and have the items they want. This is a bad thing...why?




> the reason why these sets are so rare and hard to obtain is because they're hard to get.



I think you're confusing "hard to get" with "lucky". Obtaining (most) items in AC is not a test of skill; it's a test of luck. Either luck, in being born in the right location at the right time, or luck, in having the item randomly appear in your shop.




> when you have tons of them it kinda loses the reason why it was so hard to obtain in the first place.



Again, luck, not difficulty.

And...who cares? Again, you worked _so hard_ to get that 7-11 set, I'm so certain. Being born in the right part of the globe, at the right time in human history, requires _so_ much effort.

Further more, it doesn't devalue the effort at all. If there's an item that is legitimately about skill (the golden tools for example), you can still brag to people about how you got them "legitimately" instead of by buying them from someone.

Keep in mind, the whole concept of trading items with others over the internet, and the online economy, is entirely "illegitimate" too.


I think the real question is, why are you so opposed to allowing others to get the items they want more easily, so they can have a happier gaming experience? If you want to play by a strict set of guidelines and rules, go ahead. But there is nothing wrong with others not wishing to do so with their games, and it doesn't impact you in any way.




> which kinda makes the price go down??



Which is a bad thing...why? Again, it allows for more people to get what they want.

Further more, the price going down is inevitable. Money is infinite, inflation is inevitable. AC does not have a real economy. And the price going down only makes the items more legitimate. I mean, after all, the game prices them for no where near 30 million bells.



> i mean i wouldnt mind if you sold them for 2 million because hey thats kinda cheap for some people and some people can afford that
> 
> i dont really care if someone is richer than me but in my eyes thats unfair??



So what you're saying is you have a problem with (1) people making more money than you, and (2) people having greater access to items they desire, meaning (3) you have a problem with people increasing their happiness in their gaming experience.

^Legitimacy people.


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## kittenrobotarmy (Sep 3, 2013)

I'm not saying it's my opinion. That's what the fan-base says. Honestly, I don't care if someone dupes or is a TTer. I TT myself and frankly, duping is just another way of play. 

No, I mean, is arguing about it actually important? What's the point? Trying to win people over to your side, or convince them to stop? No. There's no reason we do it. We just want to be "right". Trying and convincing others that what they do is wrong. That's all we're doing. We just want to be right. Think about it. We argue and argue, saying that this is cheating and wrong, and this is proper, blah blah blah. Can we not simply forget about it and try to rekindle the site the way it was before this stupid glitch tore us apart?

Damn, I sound like some ancient guru. Ugh. Oh well. Feel free to yell and disagree with me, though I won't reply anymore. It's not worth the trouble.


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## Divo (Sep 3, 2013)

Kippla said:


> No, I mean, is arguing about it actually important? What's the point? Trying to win people over to your side, or convince them to stop?



Yes, precisely that. Debate fosters a challenging of ideals, and showing which ones are intellectually frail, and which ones we should abide by.




> No. There's no reason we do it. We just want to be "right". Trying and convincing others that what they do is wrong. That's all we're doing. We just want to be right. Think about it. We argue and argue, saying that this is cheating and wrong, and this is proper, blah blah blah. Can we not simply forget about it and try to rekindle the site the way it was before this stupid glitch tore us apart?



The proper solution is never to just "ignore" a problem. I mean, imagine if we applied your philosophy to any other great social upheaval we know of. Apply your logic to slavery. "You're just arguing to argue. You just want to be right and proves other's wrong. Can't we just forget about this whole thing?"

That's not exactly the foundation of an enlightened society, let alone a well functioning one. Ideas need to be challenged and forged in the flames of debate. If we wish to progress, we must know which ideas are strong and good, and which ones are wicked and disgraceful. That is what debate does. That is the purpose of logic.


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## radical6 (Sep 3, 2013)

Divo said:


> bunch of stuff



and at the value comment - once it goes down i dont see why you need to charge 30 mil. it lost its "rare" value and it really shouldnt be 30m 

and at your last comment - no i dont care if they make money. and idk?? i would rather sell the set for much cheaper or give them away. i dont have a problem with dupers like that but idk?? selling them so high just doesnt make sense to me?? but the 7/11 sets value is probably gonna go down once that that ac tumblr gives it away anyway

i dont know where you got 3 from like i mean if someone worked really hard to get 30 million bells in a game and buy the set and then they find out that the seller has like 50 others sets?? and they had in mind that the set was rare and hard to get. but whatever 

have a good day


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## Divo (Sep 3, 2013)

tsundere said:


> and at the value comment - once it goes down i dont see why you need to charge 30 mil. it lost its "rare" value and it really shouldnt be 30m



Well it shouldn't be 30m to begin with. But be that as it may, people are free to charge whatever they want for their items. And people are free to buy elsewhere.




> and at your last comment - no i dont care if they make money.



Then why on earth do you keep bringing up people selling multiple sets for lots of money, if your complaint isn't about them making money?




> and idk?? i would rather sell the set for much cheaper or give them away.



So would I.

And duplication can only increase this.




> i dont have a problem with dupers like that but idk?? selling them so high just doesnt make sense to me??



Well, it makes sense in that people want to make massive, unreasonable profit. But I agree, I don't like that some people charge such high prices.

I just don't see what duplication has to do with this, outside of reducing this problem, by furthering the speed of the online economy's inevitable inflation.




> i dont know where you got 3 from



Well it stands to reason that if people are duping because it makes them happy, and you have a problem with them duping, when it doesn't affect you, you have a problem with them enjoying their games in a way that makes them happy. It would seem that your happiness, and the happiness of the anti-duping crowd by connection, is contingent upon making many other players _unhappy_.


----------



## Jake (Sep 3, 2013)




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## leo (Sep 3, 2013)

this is a forum for a kid's game on the internet

not some form of government


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## Jeremy (Sep 3, 2013)

The reason we've made a policy against duplicating items is because of the overall impact it has on the AC community.  I normally don't like rules like this, but we've seen it happen with both Wild World and City Folk.  Animal Crossing is a game structured around a virtual economy.  When the economy dies, the game dies along with it for many players.  And even if a user personally refuses to duplicate items, they are still affected by the online economy.  We'd like to avoid this as much as possible, which is why we don't allow it.

That being said, we are not witch hunters and we understand that duping will happen despite the policy.  This is why we do not respond to baseless accusations of duplicating, but would rather let the Wi-Fi Feedback ratings deal with it.  However, we will lock any public discussions or admissions of duplicating items when it pertains to trading items, finding duping partners, etc.

Duplicating items is in fact cheating because it's done by exploiting a game glitch.  Whether you cheat in a videogame or not is your own decision, but we don't want the cheating of one user to indirectly affect another user's gameplay.  Online games ban online cheating, so it shouldn't be too shocking to hear that The Bell Tree and other AC sites don't allow it either.  Time traveling, on the other hand, is not cheating and the difference between the two may help you understand the policy.  One is done by exploiting a game glitch, the other is an intentional feature.

To sum it up, we don't care how you choose to play the game, but we hope you will not do anything that will ruin the experience for others.


----------



## iLoveYou (Sep 3, 2013)

Spoiler


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## Jake (Sep 3, 2013)

iLoveYou said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 12018


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## Horus (Sep 4, 2013)

Jer said it was funny


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## Farobi (Sep 4, 2013)

Yolo where is the lock now


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## oath2order (Sep 4, 2013)

ZanessaGaily said:


> Conversations like this is probably why the talk of duping is not allowed. People argue over it. "It's wrong, it's right, it's okay". .-.



That's the exact same things people say about TTing though.

Nice job ya'll, this was actually a civil debate. Ya'll should've seen ACC's duping policy. At least Jer gave a real REASON for the banning of it and allows private discussion.

I have to ask. Is group discussion about duping allowed? Groups are, in a sense, private, or at least more private than the main threads. It wasn't mentioned in your post, and I think that it's not allowed in them, but I want to be absolutely positive.


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## Horus (Sep 4, 2013)

oath2order said:


> That's the exact same things people say about TTing though.
> 
> Nice job ya'll, this was actually a civil debate. Ya'll should've seen ACC's duping policy. At least Jer gave a real REASON for the banning of it and allows private discussion.
> 
> I have to ask. Is group discussion about duping allowed? Groups are, in a sense, private, or at least more private than the main threads. It wasn't mentioned in your post, and I think that it's not allowed in them, but I want to be absolutely positive.



He said no


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## Nigel (Sep 4, 2013)

oath2order said:


> That's the exact same things people say about TTing though.
> 
> Nice job ya'll, this was actually a civil debate. Ya'll should've seen ACC's duping policy. At least Jer gave a real REASON for the banning of it and allows private discussion.
> 
> I have to ask. Is group discussion about duping allowed? Groups are, in a sense, private, or at least more private than the main threads. It wasn't mentioned in your post, and I think that it's not allowed in them, but I want to be absolutely positive.



ACC's policy is the same...
Duping is allowed but discussing it and how to do it is not.


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## Jeremy (Sep 4, 2013)

oath2order said:


> That's the exact same things people say about TTing though.
> 
> Nice job ya'll, this was actually a civil debate. Ya'll should've seen ACC's duping policy. At least Jer gave a real REASON for the banning of it and allows private discussion.
> 
> I have to ask. Is group discussion about duping allowed? Groups are, in a sense, private, or at least more private than the main threads. It wasn't mentioned in your post, and I think that it's not allowed in them, but I want to be absolutely positive.



No, not allowed.  We don't moderate PMs though, but we obviously discourage people to dupe at all.


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## oath2order (Sep 4, 2013)

Jeremy said:


> No, not allowed.  We don't moderate PMs though, but we obviously discourage people to dupe at all.



Just wanted to be absolutely sure. Thanks


----------



## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

Jeremy said:


> The reason we've made a policy against duplicating items is because of the overall impact it has on the AC community.



What do you mean by that?



> I normally don't like rules like this, but we've seen it happen with both Wild World and City Folk.  Animal Crossing is a game structured around a virtual economy.



Not quite. The virtual economy as we know it is solely the product of the gamer's themselves. Trading as we know it is not an intended part of the game, and any "economy" the game intends is solely between the various venders in the game.

The virtual economy is a fabrication of players, which is why it is inevitably doomed to crash. Money and resources are infinite. Inflation is an inevitability. Therefore any argument about persevering the economy is utter nonsense.




> When the economy dies, the game dies along with it for many players.  And even if a user personally refuses to duplicate items, they are still affected by the online economy.  We'd like to avoid this as much as possible, which is why we don't allow it.



Except duplicating does not affect the online economy in any way, other than giving more players the potential to earn items which they like. If you ant to charge/pay obscene prices for items, you can still do that, regardless of the existence of duplicating. All duplicating does is end the tyrannical rule of those who have items, and those who don't, by giving those who don't an have little money alternative means of procuring, either by directly duplicating, or paying less, more reasonable prices for the item.




> Duplicating items is in fact cheating because it's done by exploiting a game glitch.



Not, it's not, because it's _exploiting_. There is a difference there.

Cheating implies gaining some form of unfair advantage over others. AC is not a competitive game. Further more, what's defined as "fair" is up for debate, as it can be argued quite effectively that the utilization of in-game glitches is perfectly "fair", especially within the context of a non competitive video game. This isn't like the Wuhu Loop glitch in Mario Kart 7. This isn't a competitive game. This is more akin to an enemy in an RPG getting stuck behind a wall through which you can strike them, but they cannot strike you. Very few people would call that cheating.

Further more, whether or not it's cheating doesn't matter, because what matters is whether or not it is harmful to unconsenting individuals; which it isn't.




> Whether you cheat in a videogame or not is your own decision, but we don't want the cheating of one user to indirectly affect another user's gameplay.



Then make rules about that; not giving a widespread banning of duplicating.




> Online games ban online cheating, so it shouldn't be too shocking to hear that The Bell Tree and other AC sites don't allow it either.



Not quite. Online _competitive_ games ban cheating. AC is not a competitive game.




> Time traveling, on the other hand, is not cheating and the difference between the two may help you understand the policy.



Oh really? Please, what is the difference? Because it seems like you've just drawn an arbitrary line in the sand.




> One is done by exploiting a game glitch, the other is an intentional feature.



Actually, time travel is not an intentional feature. It is rather the exploitable result of the linking of in-game time with console time. Nintendo never "intended" for people to time travel at all.

Exploitation is exploitation. If you allow time traveling, or even the online trade in general for that matter, it is nothing short of hypocritical that you subsequently ban duplicating.

And yes, you read that right; online trade was never intended, and is just as much utilizing the program for unintended usage as time travel or duplicating. Trading items is the exploitable result of being able to drop and pick up items on the ground. Had nintendo intended "item trading" or a "virtual economy" to be an actual function of the game, they would have programmed something in directly relating to it. Some form of "Grand Exchange" if you will.




> To sum it up, we don't care how you choose to play the game, but we hope you will not do anything that will ruin the experience for others.



Really? Because your rule seems to do just that; ruin the experience of others, by pandering to elitist snobbery nonsense.

- - - Post Merge - - -



oath2order said:


> Ya'll should've seen ACC's duping policy.



I should know. I was a member there, and was banned while challenging their rulings.

I really hate that place.




> At least Jer gave a real REASON for the banning of it and allows private discussion.



Poor reasons, but they were better than ACC's reasons.

But poor reasons none the less.

- - - Post Merge - - -

Speaking of ACC, just imagine how much of the userbase we could attract if we allowed discussions of duplicating here. This website already is programmed far better as it is. With the added freedom of discussion, there'd be no real reason for people to stay over there.

Maybe that's just my desire to see that website crash and burn speaking however.


----------



## oath2order (Sep 4, 2013)

Divo said:


> I should know. I was a member there, and was banned while challenging their rulings.
> 
> I really hate that place.



By any chance, was your username ChaosHeart or something?


----------



## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

oath2order said:


> By any chance, was your username ChaosHeart or something?



Yep.

Why do you ask?


----------



## SockHead (Sep 4, 2013)

iLoveYou said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 12018



wow not even funny


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## Mino (Sep 4, 2013)

I think the administration should've brought the evidence before the UN before making threats.


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## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

Mino said:


> I think the administration should've brought the evidence before the UN before making threats.



...wat?


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## Mino (Sep 4, 2013)

Divo said:


> ...wat?



Keep up the fight, speak truth to power.


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## Pidjiken (Sep 4, 2013)

You stoned again mino?


----------



## Smoke (Sep 4, 2013)

Mino said:


> Keep up the fight, speak truth to power.



Same.


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## matt (Sep 4, 2013)

I HATE DUPING. btw there is a 3ds action replay out lol


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## Pidjiken (Sep 4, 2013)

Not all dupers are created equal. 

Hate the ones who abuse it for personal gain, love the ones who use it for others out of kindness.


And then there's quotes:

“There is no good and evil, there is only power and those too weak to seek it.” 
― J.K. Rowling

“People who claim that they're evil are usually no worse than the rest of us... It's people who claim that they're good, or any way better than the rest of us, that you have to be wary of.” 
― Gregory Maguire

“Evil isn’t the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it’s a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against Stupid. That might actually make a difference.” 
― Jim Butcher


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## Jizg (Sep 4, 2013)

matt said:


> I HATE DUPING. btw there is a 3ds action replay out lol



It doesn't work for 3DS games. Just DS.

I stopped caring once I realized that both TBT and ACC disallowing dupe discussions meant their economies remained virtually the same, sans unorderables no longer being ridiculously overinflated. But looking at gamefaqs(which allows for all discussion) its trading board basically became all villager and duping threads, with royal crown sellers everywhere. I'd rather not see it here just because it feels like its a safe haven for those who want to get their stuff legit/semi-legit.


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## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

I have no clue what you're talking about. I'm on Gamefaqs all the time, and I see tons of threads about trading items legitimately. Yes, there are a lot of threads about duping, but that doesn't mean those who don't want to dupe cannot. If you and others are so concerned about legitimate play, only buy and only sell; never dupe. It's that simple.

Others duping does not affect your ability to play the game how you wish in any way; other than destroying one's ability to tyrannically hold others under their thumb by charging ridiculous prices on one-time DLC. And I say good riddance to that.


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## Horus (Sep 4, 2013)

Welcome to the new Staff Applications thread!

Honestly, this should have been done and over with after Jeremy's post.

Yet, the ride never ends.


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## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

Horus said:


> Welcome to the new Staff Applications thread!
> 
> Honestly, this should have been done and over with after Jeremy's post.



Why? Are staff's decisions not open to critique?

You are aware that I have proved a lengthy rebuttal to said user's claims, yes?


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## matt (Sep 4, 2013)

Jizg said:


> It doesn't work for 3DS games. Just DS.
> 
> I stopped caring once I realized that both TBT and ACC disallowing dupe discussions meant their economies remained virtually the same, sans unorderables no longer being ridiculously overinflated. But looking at gamefaqs(which allows for all discussion) its trading board basically became all villager and duping threads, with royal crown sellers everywhere. I'd rather not see it here just because it feels like its a safe haven for those who want to get their stuff legit/semi-legit.



where did you see that? There is one. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Datel-Action-Replay-Cheat-System/dp/B005LUUWL6


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## Horus (Sep 4, 2013)

Divo said:


> Why? Are staff's decisions not open to critique?
> 
> You are aware that I have proved a lengthy rebuttal to said user's claims, yes?



Never ever ends.


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## nintendofan61 (Sep 4, 2013)

I just want you guys' opinion. Why hasn't Nintendo patched the glitch yet? Will they ever? Give me your thoughts. I've been trying to figure out why for weeks.


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## matt (Sep 4, 2013)

Yea they can patch the glitch but im sure out of the milions of people who play and find these glitches, im sure there will be more discovered as time progresses.


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## Farobi (Sep 4, 2013)

I don't think they can nintendofan61.


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## matt (Sep 4, 2013)

nintendofan61 said:


> I just want you guys' opinion. Why hasn't Nintendo patched the glitch yet? Will they ever? Give me your thoughts. I've been trying to figure out why for weeks.



how do they patch up something in a game if It has already been distributed? Do they fix it though spotpass or something?


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## nintendofan61 (Sep 4, 2013)

I was wondering the same thing. Maybe this thing can't be patched. I have no clue. But I think Nintendo would've patched it by now. Or maybe not; because the people who dupe would just put the game down.. since they can't do it no more.

And how would they fix a glitch that's been distributed? The other day, the New Leaf server was down for maintenance, and I thought they were patching it then, but apparently they didn't.


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## rosiebelle (Sep 4, 2013)

matt said:


> how do they patch up something in a game if It has already been distributed? Do they fix it though spotpass or something?



When on the home screen for Animal Crossing there's a selection of 'Update Data'; I believe this was installed to help with any potential patches that may need to be installed. 

The main problem with duping is that it occurs due to someone interrupting the natural process of saving the game; The 'hosts' ds completes a full save as normal whilst the other ds' (the duper) saving process is deliberately interrupted through the _back-up_ save stage; hence why rumours that duping damages your game are untrue. This is the reason why it generally cannot be patched is that the save process is the inbuilt facility of the main game; it's not just fixing a dodgy item/character/area


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## nintendofan61 (Sep 4, 2013)

rosiebelle said:


> When on the home screen for Animal Crossing there's a selection of 'Update Data'; I believe this was installed to help with any potential patches that may need to be installed.
> 
> The main problem with duping is that it occurs due to someone interrupting the natural process of saving the game; The 'hosts' ds completes a full save as normal whilst the other ds' (the duper) saving process is deliberately interrupted through the _back-up_ save stage; hence why rumours that duping damages your game are untrue. This is the reason why it generally cannot be patched is that the save process is the inbuilt facility of the main game; it's not just fixing a dodgy item/character/area



Wow, thanks for explaining.


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## rosiebelle (Sep 4, 2013)

nintendofan61 said:


> Wow, thanks for explaining.



No problem ^^ It's always handy to get clued up on such matters


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## nintendofan61 (Sep 4, 2013)

rosiebelle said:


> No problem ^^ It's always handy to get clued up on such matters



Yeah, I could never figure out why people said it would damage the save file, because everything's already saved; it would not save what you have done since your last save...right? Sorry if this is confusing.


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## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

Yeah, it's not something Nintendo can fix. It isn't a Software issue, in the sense that they could just distribute some new code to override old code to prevent you from being able to walk through a wall or something. It deals with backup saves and the time it takes for one DS to save versus another. That's not something they can just distribute a code to "fix". And in fact, I don't think they'd want to do that, because it's designed to work this way intentionally.


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## Garrett x50 cal (Sep 4, 2013)

If someone dupes in a videogame the very way of life as we know it will cease to exist. Nuclear war will wipe out everyone and everything on the planet. The permanent radiation will create an atmosphere similar to Venus, the radiation makes sure that no life will ever be able to form again. 

And that's why we can't discuss glitches on TBT.


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## Aiyana (Sep 4, 2013)

I haven't ever duped things, but I have time traveled. And now I'm curious as to what the difference between time traveling and duping is, like why TT is okay, because I've read so many things that are like "alkdfjlaksdj time traveling is the worst cheating awful thing in the world" or something exaggerated like that, and so now I'm confused.


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## Garrett x50 cal (Sep 4, 2013)

Aiyana said:


> I haven't ever duped things, but I have time traveled. And now I'm curious as to what the difference between time traveling and duping is, like why TT is okay, because I've read so many things that are like "alkdfjlaksdj time traveling is the worst cheating awful thing in the world" or something exaggerated like that, and so now I'm confused.



People realized they were absolute morons for trying to condemn a way someone plays _their_ videogame for _their_ own enjoyment that doesn't affect anyone else. So the hate against TTers has died down significantly. Perhaps someday the same can be said for those against glitches.


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## Snow (Sep 4, 2013)

Aiyana said:


> I haven't ever duped things, but I have time traveled. And now I'm curious as to what the difference between time traveling and duping is, like why TT is okay, because I've read so many things that are like "alkdfjlaksdj time traveling is the worst cheating awful thing in the world" or something exaggerated like that, and so now I'm confused.



I don't think there's really any "moral" difference between duping, tting, or farming DLCs. All of them can be done because it makes your personal gameplay more fun, and all three can easily be abused for profit and "economy wrecking". I mean, is a person who tts and then sells picnic baskets before everyone can get them normally any different from a person who duped them? I don't think so. Is there any difference between sitting in starbucks for hours farming tea sets and duping them? No, not really. The results are the same -- an excess of rare items that are then sold at higher prices (or lower, in some cases) -- but for some reason everyone gives the tters and item farmers a pass. 

And if everyone is so worried about morality, I think exploiting a n00b in the Re-Tail forum who doesn't know which DLCs are re-orderable is a lot less "moral" than exploiting a loophole in gameplay. 

Personally, I like to play the game as it comes; I don't like to experience events or seasons early, I like getting stuff slowly. But I don't care how other people play their game. 

_All that said, it's the right of the site owner and mod to decide how their site is run; you may not agree but I think you have to respect it._


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## nintendofan61 (Sep 4, 2013)

Snow said:


> I mean, is a person who tts and then sells picnic baskets before everyone can get them normally any different from a person who duped them? I don't think so. Is there any difference between sitting in starbucks for hours farming tea sets and duping them?



That is a good point..


----------



## Zhados (Sep 4, 2013)

Duplication does affect us all though, especially those who want to play the game as intended.
Personally I like to play the game without have to rely on having to abuse a glitch, but because there are so many dupers out there this became somewhat of an issue.
I mean, even with the stalk market it is hard to get your dream villagers, or certain expensive sets for that matter.
Of course, there are a lot of kind people who duplicate expensive and otherwise unobtainable sets for the benefit of others, but this also means that dupers affects most of us often in a way that the we don't even realize that we are not playing the game we want to.

So, conclusion?
In order to get expensive DLC sets or dream villagers you either have to spend a month+ of stalk marketing, or become a duper yourself.


----------



## Byngo (Sep 4, 2013)

Zhados said:


> In order to get expensive DLC sets or dream villagers you either have to spend a month+ of stalk marketing, or become a duper yourself.



Good point. Some people (Such as myself) don't have the time to make the money necessary to get w/e item it is that you desire, so duping yourself or getting from a duper who would give it to you is a lovely alternative. Because, if people who are against duping has it their way, many people would never get items they wanted, or at the very least it would take a hell of a long time to get them.

About your intended way of playing: I hope you know that if you trade, you're not playing an intended way either. Divo brought a great point that I never had thought of, that trading is just as un-intended as duplicating.


----------



## nintendofan61 (Sep 4, 2013)

Lunatic said:


> About your intended way of playing: I hope you know that if you trade, you're not playing an intended way either. Divo brought a great point that I never had thought of, that trading is just as un-intended as duplicating.



This is also a good point Lunatic. I sometimes find myself regretting trading, because I have everything - now I have nothing else to do in the game..


----------



## StarryACNL (Sep 4, 2013)

I personally think there's no harm in discussing it as long as no-one starts trading with it!
As soon as someone crosses the line I think it should be band!


----------



## Absentia (Sep 4, 2013)

People on this forum frown on duping for the most part and even though its not expressly in the rules to not talk about it (unless I missed it) people will start a huge stink and probably report anyone who does mention it, as a friend of mine found out resently when he said he had extra items. Didn't even mention duping and it was all downhill from first post.

But lets face it, so many people on this forum dupe and keep it hush hush its not even funny. And those same people will openly bash anyone who even possibly uses words that are synonymous with duping.

I hate duping, but I'll buy from this shop that just happens to have 50 afternoon tea sets to sell the day after release...yeah, ok guys, you keep doing that.


Also, if you trade/buy from a stranger there's a 50% chance they either duped the item or traded for it with someone who duped i, or that person got a duped item and it goes on and on.

I try my best to get my items legit, and I seriously spend hours and hours trading and buying to get the inventory from my shop, but I can estimate that in the past week over half of my items have come from a duped source because I've traded off about 20 full flower sets + items. I can't with all my heart say that someone somewhere did not dupe at least 1 of those even if I myself got it legit.


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## Garrett x50 cal (Sep 4, 2013)

StarryACNL said:


> I personally think there's no harm in discussing it as long as no-one starts trading with it!
> As soon as someone crosses the line I think it should be band!



Well there's no point in discussing it if you can't follow through with it.

"Dude duping would be so cool, too bad we can't do it."

The only reason we're talking about it now is a discussion about whether or not we should be able to follow through with it.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Zhados said:


> Duplication does affect us all though, especially those who want to play the game as intended.
> Personally I like to play the game without have to rely on having to abuse a glitch, but because there are so many dupers out there this became somewhat of an issue.
> I mean, even with the stalk market it is hard to get your dream villagers, or certain expensive sets for that matter.
> Of course, there are a lot of kind people who duplicate expensive and otherwise unobtainable sets for the benefit of others, but this also means that dupers affects most of us often in a way that the we don't even realize that we are not playing the game we want to.
> ...


You never made a point against or for duping you just said stuff is expensive. Even though duping lowers the value of goods.

"but this also means that dupers affects most of us often in a way that the we don't even realize that we are not playing the game we want to."

Lol, if you don't like duping A. Don't dupe B. Don't buy from a duper then it won't "affect" you.


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## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

Absentia said:


> People on this forum frown on duping for the most part and even though its not expressly in the rules to not talk about it (unless I missed it) people will start a huge stink and probably report anyone who does mention it, as a friend of mine found out resently when he said he had extra items. Didn't even mention duping and it was all downhill from first post.



This is the problem with pandering to elitist snobbery. It only gets worse.

I understand the mods want to try and keep everyone happy, but they should realize that not everyone deserves to be appeased. Particularly these little *******s. Not all views are of equal merit. Some are objectively worse. And ones which are worse should not be pandered to, if doing so causes harm to others.

These people should be told to grow up or piss off, not be allowed to terrorize others for not playing "the right way".


----------



## catman_ (Sep 4, 2013)

Divo said:


> This is the problem with pandering to elitist snobbery. It only gets worse.
> 
> I understand the mods want to try and keep everyone happy, but they should realize that not everyone deserves to be appeased. Particularly these little *******s. Not all views are of equal merit. Some are objectively worse. And ones which are worse should not be pandered to, if doing so causes harm to others.
> 
> These people should be told to grow up or piss off, not be allowed to terrorize others for not playing "the right way".



Telling people to "grow up or piss off" wouldn't help anyone. 

In Pokemon forums, it's okay to duplicate Pokemon as long as they're not hacked themselves. But it's common courtesy, or * recommended*, that you let people know that it's a duplicated Pokemon/item. 

I for one don't mind duping, but you must admit the smallest that it does become unfair at times. But of course, this shouldn't matter as nothing is unfair in market.


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## Zhados (Sep 4, 2013)

Garrett x50 cal said:


> Well there's no point in discussing it if you can't follow through with it.
> 
> "Dude duping would be so cool, too bad we can't do it."
> 
> ...



I'm afraid it is not that simple; my whole point was that dupers are everywhere (on these forums aswell), and because of that it is nearly impossible to not be affected by dupers.
Besides, have you ever seen anyone on these forums, or actually any AC forums, that begin their thread by stating that they are dupers?

The fact that certain items are expensive means that people that want to play the game "legit", or vanilla, whatever you like to call it, either have to spend an insane amount of time of grinding/selling turnips, whilst other people are abusing a glitch that wasn't even supposed to be there.

Which brings me to my next point, one that Lunatic brought to my attention:
To truly define how this game is supposed to be played is difficult, because this game places a lot of emphasis on playing this game together with your friends.
At that point, trading becomes a rather obvious way to exchange items with each others and help each other to get more desirable pieces of furniture and other items, and it has been this way for a while now.
If this wasn't how the game was supposed to be played, then why didn't Nintendo took out this "feature" a long time ago?

Glitches on the other hand, are just that; glitches.
They are accidents, they weren't supposed to be there.
The fact that the online market depends on such a thing means that a lot of people are forced in one way or another to participate in this market, a market which wasn't supposed to exist in the first place.


----------



## Garrett x50 cal (Sep 4, 2013)

You said:
			
		

> I'm afraid it is not that simple; my whole point was that dupers are everywhere (on these forums aswell), and because of that it is nearly impossible to not be affected by dupers.


They're plenty of non dupers or are you implying you're the only one?



			
				you said:
			
		

> Besides, have you ever seen anyone on these forums, or actually any AC forums, that begin their thread by stating that they are dupers?


 No simply because if they do at least here their thread will be closed. You can always ask however. 




			
				you said:
			
		

> The fact that certain items are expensive means that people that want to play the game "legit", or vanilla, whatever you like to call it, either have to spend an insane amount of time of grinding/selling turnips, whilst other people are abusing a glitch that wasn't even supposed to be there.


What on Earth are you talking about?! An items price has absolutely nothing to do with some players wanting to play "vanilla" 
Do you understand why 7/11 items are expensive? Because it's non reorderable DLC that was only obtainable in Japan for a limited time. Not because the knights of the holy vanilla round table of animal crossing deemed it to be so.




			
				you said:
			
		

> Which brings me to my next point, one that Lunatic brought to my attention:
> To truly define how this game is supposed to be played is difficult, because this game places a lot of emphasis on playing this game together with your friends.


There is no right or wrong way to play a videogame, any videogame. 



Spoiler: multiple examples



CoD/FPS': Get kills complete the objective right?  What about people who just want to run around suiciding, they're having fun in their own right, are they wrong? Certainly they're not playing to win but rather - fun.
Minecraft: Goal? Build a shelter, mine ore, hide from monsters. Is the guy making a 1:1 replicate of the death star from Star Wars wrong?

Animal crossing: Playing each day completely vanilla no TT no dupes no ANY sort of glitch whatsoever. That person is having fun at their own pace The "pace" Nintendo set into place by default. Does that mean the TT duping 1,000 gold flower player isn't having any fun? Nintendo created AC with the idea that players play the game in real time day-by-day. But do they care if you TT or dupe? Of course not they want you to buy and have fun with their product even if that means you buying it just to throw it into an ocean.






			
				you said:
			
		

> At that point, trading becomes a rather obvious way to exchange items with each others and help each other to get more desirable pieces of furniture and other items, and it has been this way for a while now.
> If this wasn't how the game was supposed to be played, then why didn't Nintendo took out this "feature" a long time ago?


There's nothing wrong with trading.




			
				you said:
			
		

> Glitches on the other hand, are just that; glitches.
> They are accidents, they weren't supposed to be there.


By definition you are correct but just because they're not supposed to be there doesn't mean you can't benefit from it or just have fun.




			
				you said:
			
		

> The fact that the online market depends on such a thing means that a lot of people are forced in one way or another to participate in this market, a market which wasn't supposed to exist in the first place.


If you're that scared or upset by a big scary duped item then just don't trade. Simple as that. I understand you're saying "Well I shouldn't have to worry about getting a scary duped item!!!" Well it happened. Some people are afraid of pickles we're not getting rid of pickles for a tiny minority group.


----------



## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

catman_ said:


> Telling people to "grow up or piss off" wouldn't help anyone.



I disagree. I think it would help a great deal. Some people need to be told that. And it would be a far more just solution.




> I for one don't mind duping, but you must admit the smallest that it does become unfair at times.



I can't particularly agree it's unfair either. You could say it's "illegitimate", but, well, **** legitimacy. It's illegitimate to time travel too, but I'm not going to sit around and wait for twelve years before I can complete my catalog in New Leaf, elitism be damned.


----------



## Lauren (Sep 4, 2013)

Everyone to their own, I personally see it as cheating. It ruins the game. Although, I have the same opinion as most of the people on here, those who have a difference of opinion are entitled. It shouldn't be spoken about on here if I'm quite honest as we're a well known community and don't want the name besmirched by those who wish to duplicate items of which wasn't intended for their region or do not wish to play the game correctly.


----------



## catman_ (Sep 4, 2013)

Divo said:


> I can't particularly agree it's unfair either. You could say it's "illegitimate", but, well, **** legitimacy. It's illegitimate to time travel too, but I'm not going to sit around and wait for twelve years before I can complete my catalog in New Leaf, elitism be damned.



unfair in the sense that you can dupe complete sets and make tens of millions when time traveling still takes much more longer to do.


----------



## Garrett x50 cal (Sep 4, 2013)

Lauren said:


> Everyone to their own, I personally see it as cheating. It ruins the game. Although, I have the same opinion as most of the people on here, those who have a difference of opinion are entitled. It shouldn't be spoken about on here if I'm quite honest as we're a well known community and don't want the name besmirched by those who wish to duplicate items of which wasn't intended for their region or do not wish to play the game correctly.



Who exactly is TBT trying uphold an image or moral superiority to? ACC? AXA?


----------



## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

Zhados said:


> I'm afraid it is not that simple; my whole point was that dupers are everywhere (on these forums aswell), and because of that it is nearly impossible to not be affected by dupers.



What matters isn't whether or not one is affected. It's whether or not an unconsenting individual is _adversely_ affected. And you'll be damned to try and find proof that duping adversely affects others.




> Besides, have you ever seen anyone on these forums, or actually any AC forums, that begin their thread by stating that they are dupers?



Well, when it's allowed, yeah actually.




> The fact that certain items are expensive means that people that want to play the game "legit", or vanilla, whatever you like to call it, either have to spend an insane amount of time of grinding/selling turnips, whilst other people are abusing a glitch that wasn't even supposed to be there.



...I'm not seeing the problem here. I mean, I see a problem, in that people who are greedy way overprice items they have a monopoly on. But I don't see how duping contributes to this problem. If anything, it reduces it.




> Which brings me to my next point, one that Lunatic brought to my attention:
> To truly define how this game is supposed to be played is difficult, because this game places a lot of emphasis on playing this game together with your friends.
> At that point, trading becomes a rather obvious way to exchange items with each others and help each other to get more desirable pieces of furniture and other items, and it has been this way for a while now.
> If this wasn't how the game was supposed to be played, then why didn't Nintendo took out this "feature" a long time ago?



Because trading isn't a "feature" to begin with. Just like how in City Folk, "games" were not a feature. Yet the online community came up with ideas, based on how the game functioned, to do these kinds of things.

If trading was an intended feature, we would see something like we do now when it comes to games. An actual, official post to go to to engage in that activity. We would probably see something like Runscape's "Grand Exchange", where people could post items and search for items, and purchase them over wifi. _That's_ intending something.


But the trading we do now is wholly unintended by the programmers. It's simply the results of being able to drop and pick up items, which itself is the result of making sure the game doesn't glitch out if you try to pick up an item when your inventory is already full. It's entirely unplanned and unintended. This is further evidenced by the fact the game actually gives _in-game values_ for certain items. Values that are almost entirely ignored when dealing with the online trading community.


Trading simply is not an intended feature of the game, and buying something from someone else over the trading boards is just as much an exploitation of functionality as time travel, creating multiple characters, or duping.





> Glitches on the other hand, are just that; glitches.
> They are accidents, they weren't supposed to be there.
> The fact that the online market depends on such a thing means that a lot of people are forced in one way or another to participate in this market, a market which wasn't supposed to exist in the first place.



There's a market for duping? I've never heard of such a thing.

You seem to be complaining about the prices of things at the market. How, exactly, are high prices the fault of duping? High prices existed _long_ before the duping glitch was uncovered. If you should be directing your complaints at anyone, it's the tyrants who wish to ban duping, so they can be a minority in possession of the majority of valuable resources, and charge insane prices for them. Capitalistic greed at it's finest.

- - - Post Merge - - -



catman_ said:


> unfair in the sense that you can dupe complete sets and make tens of millions when time traveling still takes much more longer to do.



So inevitably your complaint comes down to some people not "waiting long enough"?

What an incredibly inane objection.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Lauren said:


> Everyone to their own, I personally see it as cheating. It ruins the game for me.



Fix'd.




> Although, I have the same opinion as most of the people on here, those who have a difference of opinion are entitled. It shouldn't be spoken about on here if I'm quite honest as we're a well known community and don't want the name besmirched by those who wish to duplicate items



1) Not all opinions are of equal merit.

2a) Besmirched? How in god's name is the website's name "besmirched" by allowing people to discuss duplicating?

I mean, you do realize, people are still duping, even with the ban, yes? Just instead of discussing it here, they'll open up an offsite chat or something, and talk about their plans to dupe there. But those people are still members of this website, they are still members of this community, and they still come to sell their wares here.

Honestly, what are you actually preventing by banning the discussion of duplicating? It's like the ridiculous "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" law that the American government had just a short while ago. It doesn't actually _change_ anything, other than the level of openness these people can experience.

2b) Who, exactly, are we holding a reputation up to? Who are we trying to impress? Ourselves?




> of which wasn't intended for their region



So you're saying people who were not lucky enough to be born in the right part of the globe, do not deserve certain items, and are not playing "legitimately" if they seek to get those items?

Again, **** legitimacy then. I don't give a damn about some arbitrary standard some snob decides to come up with. I care much more about _enjoying my game_.




> or do not wish to play the game correctly.



There is no "incorrect" way to play a non-competitive video game.


----------



## catman_ (Sep 4, 2013)

you're an incredibly inane objection lol 

jk


----------



## Zhados (Sep 4, 2013)

@Garrett x50 cal
1. There are a lot of dupers on these forums, however there are also plenty of people that play the game without relying on this particular glitch.
I never said otherwise.

2. Which is against the rules.
Of course this isn't an argument, so...
Yes you can ask, but most people don't as they don't care, and the person that I am trading with might very well be trading a duped item without knowing.

3. It depends; if someone who doesn't dupe wants to participate in trading villagers, then that person has no or little means of getting hold of the villager (especially populair ones such as Ankha).
With DLC it depends really; if you're lucky you can find someone who is kind enough to either give you the item for free or for a reasonable price.
Also, DLC prices usually "hang" betwees these two extremes; either free or in the 20M+ range (yet another example of how duping affects online trading).

4. I never was talking about right or wrong, just merely the way the developers wanted their audience to enjoy their game (which isn't happening right now).
Also whether something is right or wrong, you can ask yourself this question about anything.
Whether something is important enough to spend time pondering about this question however, is completely optional and irrelevant.

5. Thank you for rephrasing my point.

6. And I completely agree, it's just that this particular glitch is affecting nearly the entire online community, which is why we are discussing it right now.

7. I personally do not mind if an item has been duped or not.
Frankly, I don't think that constantly worrying about items and whether they are duped or not is a very enjoyable way of playing this game.


----------



## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

Zhados said:


> Yes you can ask, but most people don't as they don't care, and the person that I am trading with might very well be trading a duped item without knowing.



Why do you care? A duped item is exactly like any other item. It's programing is absolutely no different. It's just like if I went to the catalog and ordered something from Nook, and gave it to you.

Why are you so paranoid about that? Does it really matter _that much_ to you how another player obtained their item?




> 3. It depends; if someone who doesn't dupe wants to participate in trading villagers, then that person has no or little means of getting hold of the villager (especially populair ones such as Ankha).



Which isn't the fault of duping, that's the fault of the online trading community overpricing things because they can get away with it.



> With DLC it depends really; if you're lucky you can find someone who is kind enough to either give you the item for free or for a reasonable price.
> Also, DLC prices usually "hang" betwees these two extremes; either free or in the 20M+ range (yet another example of how duping affects online trading).



Again, the fault of the online trading community and people being greedy, _not_ duplicating.

I really don't see how you can hold duplicating at fault for any of your complaints here. Duplicating _solves_ these problems.




> 4. I never was talking about right or wrong, just merely the way the developers wanted their audience to enjoy their game (which isn't happening right now).



Who cares how the developers want or intended for us to play? What matters is how _we_ want to play. AC is competitive, so it's not like we're breaking some moral standard of sportsmanship if we do "illegitimate" or "unintended" things. The developer's will is meaningless.

And I again must reiterate how trading itself is unintended, as is the obtaining of region-exclusive DLC.


----------



## Garrett x50 cal (Sep 4, 2013)

you said:
			
		

> 1. There are a lot of dupers on these forums, however there are also plenty of people that play the game without relying on this particular glitch. I never said otherwise.


Then why are you complaining about those that do? You said theres "so many" flooding the market or whatnot.



			
				you said:
			
		

> 2. Which is against the rules.
> Of course this isn't an argument, so...


Gramatical fail "Which is against the rules. Of course this isn't an argument, so..." lolwut?



			
				you said:
			
		

> Yes you can ask, but most people don't as they don't care, and the person that I am trading with might very well be trading a duped item without knowing.


MY GOD THE WORLD IS ON FIRE OH NO NOT DUPED ITEM NOOOOOO They're exactly the same did you know Nintendo had to dupe the items themselves otherwise there would be only one copy of AC:NL every item you received was duped it's a dirty feeling isn't it?



			
				you said:
			
		

> 3. It depends; if someone who doesn't dupe wants to participate in trading villagers, then that person has no or little means of getting hold of the villager (especially populair ones such as Ankha).
> With DLC it depends really; if you're lucky you can find someone who is kind enough to either give you the item for free or for a reasonable price.
> Also, DLC prices usually "hang" betwees these two extremes; either free or in the 20M+ range (yet another example of how duping affects online trading).


*sigh*
Thanks for not quoting what I wrote so I don't know why you wrote "it depends." Anyway you could still obtain your precious villagers without duping I made 9 million on turnips one week. 
As for items duping doesn't cause the price of items to go up, it only causes them to decrease please show me an example where the price increased. 




			
				you said:
			
		

> 4. I never was talking about right or wrong, just merely the way the developers wanted their audience to enjoy their game (which isn't happening right now).


The only people who "aren't having fun" are people like who cry about glitches. Look. People who dupe? Happy.
People who don't dupe themselves but they don't care if others do. Happy.
People who want everyone to play the exact same communist way? Not happy.



			
				you said:
			
		

> Also whether something is right or wrong, you can ask yourself this question about anything.
> Whether something is important enough to spend time pondering about this question however, is completely optional and irrelevant.


What? This is why quotations are important.




			
				you said:
			
		

> 5. Thank you for rephrasing my point.


And thank you for not quoting what I wrote, what did I rephrase? 




			
				you said:
			
		

> 6. And I completely agree, it's just that this particular glitch is affecting nearly the entire online community, which is why we are discussing it right now.


Not sure what you agree to.



			
				you said:
			
		

> 7. I personally do not mind if an item has been duped or not.
> Frankly, I don't think that constantly worrying about items and whether they are duped or not is a very enjoyable way of playing this game.


Then why are we having this discussion? Aren't you on my side then?


----------



## Zhados (Sep 4, 2013)

@Divo
1. 
Please read the last sentence of my previous post.
The only extinction I made between duped and non-duped item was... Well just that actually, I never stated that their programming would be different or anything similar.
The "problem" is that a duper made money with whatever he had duped, and the idea behind having an item that has not been bought regularly is disruptive to quite a lot of people.
If memory serves a lot of people made a big fuss of clones pokemon aswell years ago.
This wasn't actually not a point that I was trying to make, just a fact of how duped items "integrate" in the game (especially DLC).

2. Duping allows people to be (more) greedy, and therefore allows such behavior.

3. Duplicating causes and partially solves the problem.

4. I personally do not care too much, I was simply stating a fact, which proves that the online economy has changed into something it wasn't supposed to be (an economy which resolves around dupers, that is).
I must say the I prefer the "intended" way, but that is just my opinion.

Again, if trading is unintended then why has it been around for such a long time?
Also, Nintendo apparently found that trading bugs and various ocean creatures would make completing the museum too easy, so they made it so that people can't trade them.


----------



## Garrett x50 cal (Sep 4, 2013)

Why Duping is a win. (Made by myself.)


----------



## nintendofan61 (Sep 4, 2013)

If I understood a past explanation earlier, the Duplication trick can not be fixed. Notice I said trick. It's not a glitch. According to another user, duplication simply "tricks the natural saving process." I think personally, this could go either way. You can agree for it or not. You can think it's cheating or not. But it's not a glitch, it's just a trick. If you wanna believe it's cheating, go ahead. I personally do not agree for it. But there is no right or wrong answer to "Do you believe duplicating is cheating?" Everyone will perceive it differently.


----------



## Zhados (Sep 4, 2013)

@Garrett x50 cal

I personally don't like quoting too much, but I do appreciate that you keep reminding me to use quotations.
So thank you.
Also, I think It is obvious that 1. 2. and so on show what quote I am addressing.

1. Because dupers are determing the market prices now.
2. I don't think this sentence was particularly hard to comprehend, but maybe that is just me.
3. Could you kindly read my entire post before responding?
4. Because the rarity of the item determines whether it will be duped or not, and therefore determines the price.
Also some villagers go usually for 40M+, meaning that you have to wait for atleast an entire month to be able to afford certain villagers.
5. I'm perfectly fine with people playing their games the way they want, but it also caused certain issues (ridiculously high prices, items losing their value) which I am addressing right now.
6. Read 1. and refer to previous post. 
7. Read 1. and refer to previous post.
8. I find that playing the game without duplicating is more enjoyable, but that doesn't mean that I am going to complain everyday when visiting these forums about duping.
I find this game enjoyable with the duping part as well, I am just expressing why I would find it more enjoyable without duping.


----------



## Garrett x50 cal (Sep 4, 2013)

Zhados said:


> @Garrett x50 cal
> 
> I personally don't like quoting too much, but I do appreciate that you keep reminding me to use quotations.
> So thank you.
> ...


How incredibly rude. I personally don't like responding to ill-informed people such as yourself so this will be my last.

Closing thoughts

Theres nothing wrong with duping it only lowers the prices of goods.
Crazy high villager prices are set by dupers and non dupers alike.


----------



## Kaiaa (Sep 4, 2013)

I believe the Bell Tree has a don't ask, don't tell view on Duping items. Don't talk about it on the Bell tree, I've seen many threads close because people were asking for duped items or selling/giving them away. If you Dupe, it's best to keep it to yourself because duping is one of those "flame-war" things, just like time travel.


----------



## Garrett x50 cal (Sep 4, 2013)

nintendofan61 said:


> If I understood a past explanation earlier, the Duplication trick can not be fixed. Notice I said trick. It's not a glitch. According to another user, duplication simply "tricks the natural saving process." I think personally, this could go either way. You can agree for it or not. You can think it's cheating or not. But it's not a glitch, it's just a trick. If you wanna believe it's cheating, go ahead. I personally do not agree for it. But there is no right or wrong answer to "Do you believe duplicating is cheating?" Everyone will perceive it differently.



Isn't tricking and glitching essentially the same thing? I mean call it whatever you want - it does what it does.


----------



## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

Zhados said:


> @Divo
> 1.
> Please read the last sentence of my previous post.
> The only extinction I made between duped and non-duped item was... Well just that actually, I never stated that their programming would be different or anything similar.



Then whence arises the concern for "duped" items versus "non-duped" items?




> The "problem" is that a duper made money with whatever he had duped, and the idea behind having an item that has not been bought regularly is disruptive to quite a lot of people.



I fail to see why this is a problem at all. The person who wanted the item got what they wanted. The person who wanted money got it too. Everyone involved in the exchange is happy.

Why are you unhappy at other's happiness? Why to be happy do you and others need to strip them of their happiness?




> If memory serves a lot of people made a big fuss of clones pokemon aswell years ago.
> This wasn't actually not a point that I was trying to make, just a fact of how duped items "integrate" in the game (especially DLC).



And I really don't see a problem with this. It doesn't cause game crashes or anything negative. It's literally just increasing the potential for others to get what they want. That's a bad thing because...?




> 2. Duping allows people to be (more) greedy, and therefore allows such behavior.



I fail to see evidence of this. I suppose it allows them to be more greedy, in that they can sell more of an item. But if you're trying to insinuate that duping somehow allows them to charge _higher_ prices, you are flat out wrong. Duping causes just the opposite. As the market floods with items, there is a greater potential for lower prices, or sometimes, even free giveaways.




> 3. Duplicating causes and partially solves the problem.



Duplicating does not cause the problem in any way. And it does much more to solve the problem than banning it does.




> 4. I personally do not care too much, I was simply stating a fact, which proves that the online economy has changed into something it wasn't supposed to be (an economy which resolves around dupers, that is).



1) No, it has not.
2) "Something it wasn't supposed to be"? As dictated by who? You?
3) Who cares? This economy is better for everyone. More people getting the items they want means more people are enjoying their games. _Why is this bad_?




> Again, if trading is unintended then why has it been around for such a long time?



You can make the same argument about duplicating or time travel. You realize duplicating has been in every animal crossing game, right? As has time travel. As has made up games. As has trading.





> Also, Nintendo apparently found that trading bugs and various ocean creatures would make completing the museum too easy, so they made it so that people can't trade them.



No, Nintendo since the first game replaced the "drop" function when catching bugs and fish with the "release" option, because it would make little sense, and possibly glitch the game, to be able to, for instance, drop a fish or bug in the middle of the ocean.

That inadvertently made it so that the fan-made trading community could not "trade" bugs or fish.


You're projecting reasons onto them that have very simply programming explanations behind them. Nintendo did not intend trading to be a thing, and Nintendo did not program it so you could not trade bugs and fish. Just as being able to drop items inadvertently gave rise to the fan-made concept of "trading", the replacement of "drop" with "release" made it so you could not "trade", or in otherwise, drop.


----------



## nintendofan61 (Sep 4, 2013)

Garrett x50 cal said:


> Isn't tricking and glitching essentially the same thing? I mean call it whatever you want - it does what it does.



Ok then, I won't use trick. I'll use method. It's not a glitch. So don't believe it is.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Garrett x50 cal said:


> Isn't tricking and glitching essentially the same thing? I mean call it whatever you want - it does what it does.



Ok then, I won't use trick. I'll use method. It's not a glitch. So don't believe it is.


----------



## Zhados (Sep 4, 2013)

Garrett x50 cal said:


> How incredibly rude. I personally don't like responding to ill-informed people such as yourself so this will be my last.
> 
> Closing thoughts
> 
> ...



A personal attack (calling me ill-informed) and then continue by not elaborating on why I'm ill-informed, and then the "hit and run"?
And the grammar thingy?
Personally I found the constant reminder of having to use quotations somewhat irrigating and rude, but I had no intentions whatsoever to come over as rude, or to insult you, I just am being direct and honest.
I actually prefer to have a civilized conversation rather that one with name calling and ill-mannered behavior, so I am disappointed that this conversation went this way.


----------



## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

Zhados said:


> 1. Because dupers are determing the market prices now.



[citation needed]

Seriously, things are no different than they were before, other than that small minorities can no longer have a stranglehold over others and force them to pay ridiculous amounts of money for items that are nowhere near worth that much in game. _That's a good thing_. If that's "dupers de terming prices", then by all means, I welcome it.




> 4. Because the rarity of the item determines whether it will be duped or not, and therefore determines the price.
> Also some villagers go usually for 40M+, meaning that you have to wait for atleast an entire month to be able to afford certain villagers.



Again, not the fault of duping. This problem is _solved_ by duping.




> 5. I'm perfectly fine with people playing their games the way they want, but it also caused certain issues (ridiculously *high prices*, items *losing their value*) which I am addressing right now.



Oh the irony. Duping is just the spawn of Satan, isn't it? It both RAISES and LOWERS item prices! The *******!

But seriously, what the hell are you talking about? I don't think you have a proper grasp of the situation. Being able to duplicate items does not raise prices. It lowers them, or more accurately, increases the potential to find lower options. It does not, in any way, raise prices. Since the the discovery of duping, items have *universally* gone *down* in price. Before some items were prices insanely high. Why? Because some people were lucky enough to be part of a minority who could gain certain items, and put a stranglehold around others, and charge whatever they pleased.

Now we are liberated from that.


----------



## Garrett x50 cal (Sep 4, 2013)

nintendofan61 said:


> Ok then, I won't use trick. I'll use method. It's not a glitch. So don't believe it is.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



I suppose it's more of an "exploit" but I mean trick, glitch, exploit method it's pretty hazy.


----------



## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

Kaiaa said:


> I believe the Bell Tree has a don't ask, don't tell view on Duping items.



I compared it to this earlier. And if the removal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell should tell you anything, it's that this kind of policy is idiotic.




> If you Dupe, it's best to keep it to yourself because duping is one of those "flame-war" things, just like time travel.



Alternatively, we tell those who start flaming others for harmless acts to go piss off, and if they don't, ban them. Solving discrimination with discrimination makes no sense.


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## nintendofan61 (Sep 4, 2013)

Why don't we all just calm down. Everyone perceives the idea of the duplication of items differently. Lets play OUR games the way WE want too. After all, it is OUR money right? Lets just have fun with the game.


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## Garrett x50 cal (Sep 4, 2013)

At least Divo knows the truth on the pricing matter.


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## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

nintendofan61 said:


> Why don't we all just calm down. Everyone perceives the idea of the duplication of items differently. Lets play OUR games the way WE want too. After all, it is OUR money right? Lets just have fun with the game.



I wish it could be this way. This is, essentially, what I'm advocating.

If you want to play your game "legitimately", fine. I find such a standard ridiculous, but it's your game. Shoot for the stars cowboy.


The problem is there are these elitist snobs running about the place, who see fit to attack and shame others for not playing the way they play the game, and it has gone so far as to ban discussion of methods of playing alternative to their inane standards (i.e., duping).

So until this ban is lifted, we can't have the type of forum you wish to be a part of.


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## Garrett x50 cal (Sep 4, 2013)

nintendofan61 said:


> Why don't we all just calm down. Everyone perceives the idea of the duplication of items differently. Lets play OUR games the way WE want too. After all, it is OUR money right? Lets just have fun with the game.



There's always THAT guy when people on the internet have a debate, discussion, argument, w/e trying to end thoughts, ideas and opinions from being exchanged...


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## nintendofan61 (Sep 4, 2013)

Divo said:


> So until this ban is lifted, we can't have the type of forum you wish to be a part of.



I'm confused by this. You mean the type of forum I "wish to be part of" is one without arguments?


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## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

nintendofan61 said:


> I'm confused by this. You mean the type of forum I "wish to be part of" is one without arguments?



The kind of forum where people "live and let live". Where dupers and nondupers can commune with one another, without feeling lesser than the other or harassed by the other. Where people can simply enjoy their games however they see fit.

That is how I perceived what you wanted, based on your post. Is this not so?


If it is, this is precisely why I am arguing right now. Because currently, rules banning the discussion of duplicating _don't_ allow for such an environment, and therefore it is imperative we stand up against such bullying.


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## nintendofan61 (Sep 4, 2013)

Divo said:


> That is how I perceived what you wanted, based on your post. Is this not so?



Yes, that is what I was saying.


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## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

nintendofan61 said:


> Yes, that is what I was saying.



Good.

Enter my response for why we must argue for the lift on the duping ban, in order to have such a forum.


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## Zhados (Sep 4, 2013)

I had no idea this threat would go haywire and turn into... this.
Although my ideas of how to enjoy this game differ I have no problems with other people enjoying their games the way they want to, I just wanted to express my personal preference towards duping; I don't think I am morally superior to anyone for playing my game my own way.


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## Byngo (Sep 4, 2013)

Divo said:


> The kind of forum where people "live and let live". Where dupers and nondupers can commune with one another, without feeling lesser than the other or harassed by the other. Where people can simply enjoy their games however they see fit.



Even if the ban is lifted, there will still be both non-duper and dupers that will continue to criticize and look down upon the way other people play. That's almost inevitable...

I'm not against your opinions in any way, but I see the ban being lifted possibly causing mass chaos/flame wars, because this and TT seem to be extremely touchy subjects. Every TT thread I see ultimately boils down to **** throwing contests. Sad that this is the case, but it really can't be helped.


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## nintendofan61 (Sep 4, 2013)

Maybe a mod can clear some things up... Lol


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## Garrett x50 cal (Sep 4, 2013)

Lunatic said:


> Even if the ban is lifted, there will still be both non-duper and dupers that will continue to criticize and look down upon the other way people play. That's almost inevitable...
> 
> I'm not against your opinions in any way, but I see the ban being lifted possibly causing mass chaos/flame wars, because this and TT seem to be extremely touchy subjects. Every TT thread I see ultimately boils down to **** throwing contests. Sad that this is the case, but it really can't be helped.



But of course. However it would be nice to have the option available.

It's sort of like segregation in America (only MUCH, MUCH lesser important) allowing blacks to go to white schools is a great idea - but racists will still be there.


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## Divo (Sep 4, 2013)

Lunatic said:


> Even if the ban is lifted, there will still be both non-duper and dupers that will continue to criticize and look down upon the way other people play. That's almost inevitable...
> 
> I'm not against your opinions in any way, but I see the ban being lifted possibly causing mass chaos/flame wars, because this and TT seem to be extremely touchy subjects. Every TT thread I see ultimately boils down to **** throwing contests. Sad that this is the case, but it really can't be helped.



Things always have to get worse before they get better. I have no doubt people will start going at each other's throats over this issue if the ban is lifted.

We simply tell those people that's not okay, and if they don't stop, punish them, like you would any other flamer. Over time, people will stop the nonsense. Generally speaking. You can never 100% weed out bad behavior.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Garrett x50 cal said:


> But of course. However it would be nice to have the option available.
> 
> It's sort of like segregation in America (only MUCH, MUCH lesser important) allowing blacks to go to white schools is a great idea - but racists will still be there.



Indeed, it pretty much is exactly like this. Of course some people will get their panties in a knot. We simply tell them why they shouldn't act that way, and if they refuse, bring out the banhammer.


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## AndyB (Sep 4, 2013)

It's already been addressed by Jeremy, but for those that missed it here: 





Jeremy said:


> The reason we've made a policy against duplicating items is because of the overall impact it has on the AC community.  I normally don't like rules like this, but we've seen it happen with both Wild World and City Folk.  Animal Crossing is a game structured around a virtual economy.  When the economy dies, the game dies along with it for many players.  And even if a user personally refuses to duplicate items, they are still affected by the online economy.  We'd like to avoid this as much as possible, which is why we don't allow it.
> 
> That being said, we are not witch hunters and we understand that duping will happen despite the policy.  This is why we do not respond to baseless accusations of duplicating, but would rather let the Wi-Fi Feedback ratings deal with it.  However, we will lock any public discussions or admissions of duplicating items when it pertains to trading items, finding duping partners, etc.
> 
> ...



This has gotten far too silly, to the point where it's bringing in topics that don't even add up.
Were it allowed, it goes to almost encourage it. We're not stupid here, it's going to happen regardless of if we allow it or not.


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