# Changing the way we use TBT! MASSIVE CHANGE TO MARKETPLACE, NEW PRICING GUIDE!



## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

*TBT is broken.*​
The Animal Crossing: New Leaf item trading has declined dramatically as of late, and almost nothing ACNL-related has been sold lately. Why is this? This is an Animal Crossing forum, correct? Why don't we have Animal Crossing items being sold? The reason, quite plainly, is the worth of TBT. Currently, the exchange rate for TBT is 1 TBT = 200,000 bells. That is a ridiculously high number, and that is what I aim to change through this post.

*Why on earth would I want to pay more for things?*​
Have you noticed the lack of ACNL shops around TBT lately? There used to be all sorts of item shops, but now there's maybe one or two in use. Why is that, you ask? With the current asking rate for items, selling things in ACNL is no longer profitable for people. let me give you an example:

I used to have a seasonal item shop (I'm thinking of bringing it back if the change catches on) where I would sell holiday items. I spent two hours collecting the items, only to find that they were worth a grand total of 40 TBT. I then spent two hours selling them. Four hours to make 40 TBT is garbage, quite frankly. Posting earns you more than that. In fact, the act of making a poll gives you TBT equivalent to 1,400,000 bells at the current exchange rate! That's a lot of beetles to sell. Given that we're an Animal Crossing community, shouldn't playing Animal Crossing earn you more than just posting random stuff?

*Why was the rate that high anyhow?*​
It was mostly due to a few forum members, who, although I won't name, you probably know. They used hacks, powersaves and cloning (which, by the way, is against the rules) to get tons of rare items, which they then sold at dirt cheap prices to gain lots of profit. While that worked very well for them, it ground other businesses into the ground. Here's an example: I spent five or so hours resetting the islands to get a pink wetsuit to sell. Since they're incredibly rare, I thought I'd net a nice profit. However, the Powersaves store was selling them for a mere 3 TBT, making it impossible to sell it for anything more than that. I promptly gave it away to my little sister.

*Why is now the time to change?​*
We've hit a drought in ACNL buying/selling. It's all because the exchange rate is screwed up, and now our items are of little to no TBT value. Now that there's almost no shops around that are selling at the old rate, why don't we start new businesses with the modified plan? Strike while the iron is hot!

*How big of a change are we talking?*​
The current exchange rate for TBT is 1/200,000. I'd like to bring that ratio down to 1/25,000, and every other price will be based on that ratio. It'll take a while, but eventually I'll have a price guide up for the most commonly sold things and how much they'd be worth with the new system.

*How can I help?​*
Support this new change by signing The TBT Agreement (post below.) It states that you support the change to the 1/25,000 exchange rate. To sign, just say "I'll sign" below and I'll add you to the signed list. If you'd like to remain anonymous, PM me saying you'll sign and I'll add you as an anonymous signer.


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

*The TBT Agreement*​
I agree to accept the change to a new 1/25,000 exchange rate and to loosely follow the pricing guide when it is posted. I agree not to undervalue my goods to destroy the economic system of TBT, or to sell hacked, cloned or Powersaved items.

*Signatures:*

BluePikachu47
Nightmares
OviRy8
Paperboy012305
princesse
Infinity
aleshapie
ktn
Mints
Anonymous
Anonymous
Skyfall
Tardis2016
Anonymous


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

*ACNL Item pricing guide​*
_WIP~_


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

Reserved~


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

Reserved~


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

Guide open! What do you think? What do you agree/disagree with?


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## uwuzumakii (May 17, 2016)

I agree with the cause, and I'd like to help, but I doubt a price migration will be easy. I'm rootin' for ya!


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## Nightmares (May 17, 2016)

Sure, I'll sign

The prices are way too crazy


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## himeki (May 17, 2016)

when do things like this ever work i mean cmon


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## Nightmares (May 17, 2016)

Sure, I'll sign

The prices are way too crazy 
It took for THREE years just to make 4 million....that's only like 20TBT....for that many years of work haha

- - - Post Merge - - -

Rip my posting


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

MayorEvvie said:


> when do things like this ever work i mean cmon



What do you mean?


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## OviRy8 (May 17, 2016)

I'll sign this! I hate that the exchange rate is so high, and 25,000 sounds like a reasonable price for an exchange rate. Looking at real-world exchange rates, they aren't high at all. Like, about a 25 cent difference at most. This, my friend, is a noble cause.


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## Paperboy012305 (May 17, 2016)

You seem to have a very point on point. So i'll sign for sure.


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## himeki (May 17, 2016)

Aronthaer said:


> What do you mean?



Petitions. Also the tbt rate works on supply and demand. People are willing to trade for the rates, so the rates are high.


also @nightmares wtf 4 mil is nothing just catch beetles at the island, sell them and in a week you can get 4 mil


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## Kirito (May 17, 2016)

All the ppl signing, I will gladly buy all your tbt at 1:25,000 then lol


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## himeki (May 17, 2016)

btw you're going back a very long time to say 1:25k because this time last year it was 1:100k


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

MayorEvvie said:


> Petitions. Also the tbt rate works on supply and demand. People are willing to trade for the rates, so the rates are high.
> 
> 
> also @nightmares wtf 4 mil is nothing just catch beetles at the island, sell them and in a week you can get 4 mil



This isn't really a petition though. It's more of a PSA to let people know that buying unorderable furniture sets for 5 TBT is ridiculous and will no longer be tolerated.


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## Nightmares (May 17, 2016)

MayorEvvie said:


> Petitions. Also the tbt rate works on supply and demand. People are willing to trade for the rates, so the rates are high.
> 
> 
> also @nightmares wtf 4 mil is nothing just catch beetles at the island, sell them and in a week you can get 4 mil



I did, and I hardly earned anything haha


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

MayorEvvie said:


> btw you're going back a very long time to say 1:25k because this time last year it was 1:100k



The rate right now is 1:200k. I'd like to see that change to 1:25k.


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## Zane (May 17, 2016)

u should take into account that a lot of regular users don't really play acnl anymore. another factor for the immense devalue-ing of ac items is the removal of welcome bells- it's largely newer members who still do ac trades and it's impossible to ask for like 400 tbt for a rare furniture set (what I paid for a zodiac set, back in the day lol) now that they don't get any spending cash for joining.


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## princesse (May 17, 2016)

I'll sign!


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

Zane said:


> u should take into account that a lot of regular users don't really play acnl anymore. another factor for the immense devalue-ing of ac items is the removal of welcome bells- it's largely newer members who still do ac trades and it's impossible to ask for like 400 tbt for a rare furniture set (what I paid for a zodiac set, back in the day lol) now that they don't get any spending cash for joining.



That's a bit of a stretch. plenty of older members still play ACNL.


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## Zane (May 17, 2016)

Aronthaer said:


> That's a bit of a stretch. plenty of older members still play ACNL.



What's a stretch? I still play it myself, but it's almost three years old now, a decrease in item value is kind of expected.


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## Trundle (May 17, 2016)

Revolutionary ideas. But I'm not signing.


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

Zane said:


> What's a stretch? I still play it myself, but it's almost three years old now, a decrease in item value is kind of expected.



Yes, but there's too much decrease for anyone to profit anymore. That's why ACNL items aren't even being sold in the TBT marketplace anymore: only those who hack can make any profit.

Plus, it isn't being devalued because it's old: It's lost it's value from hackers manufacturing mass amounts of rares and selling them.

- - - Post Merge - - -

"There are 22 users browsing this thread"

What horrors have I unleashed


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## himeki (May 17, 2016)

also ur not considering artists


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## Zane (May 17, 2016)

Aronthaer said:


> Yes, but there's too much decrease for anyone to profit anymore. That's why ACNL items aren't even being sold in the TBT marketplace anymore: only those who hack can make any profit.
> 
> Plus, it isn't being devalued because it's old: It's lost it's value from hackers manufacturing mass amounts of rares and selling them.



eh well i guess we just got different onions


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

MayorEvvie said:


> also ur not considering artists



what about artists? This is about ACNL items, not the prices of anything else on the site.

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Zane said:


> eh well i guess we just got different onions



I'm cool with that.

TBH I don't even play a ton of ACNL Simply because I can't finish my dream town but I still think the rates are insane.


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## Stil (May 17, 2016)

Signed!


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## Justin (May 17, 2016)

Zane said:


> u should take into account that a lot of regular users don't really play acnl anymore. another factor for the immense devalue-ing of ac items is the removal of welcome bells- it's largely newer members who still do ac trades and it's impossible to ask for like 400 tbt for a rare furniture set (what I paid for a zodiac set, back in the day lol) now that they don't get any spending cash for joining.



Great thinking here! This was actually a part of why we removed the welcome bells. Originally they were meant to be spent primarily on items in the Shop where the bells go back to the forum but after New Leaf, they ended up mostly going to making the few who ran the popular AC item shops incredibly rich since newer users didn't understand their real value and would gladly hand over hundreds for nothing. Not to mention a lot of these shops were also cheating to obtain the items.


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## aleshapie (May 17, 2016)

Sign me up! 

I wish someone would do the same for villagers! Sigh...don't get me started on that!


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## Pandoria (May 17, 2016)

Editing because I don't want to cause any conflict ;u; 
Although I think every individual has a right to set their own prices


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## Stil (May 17, 2016)

Kirito said:


> All the ppl signing, I will gladly buy all your tbt at 1:25,000 then lol



Too bad I'm not buying IGBs...


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## himeki (May 17, 2016)

well if tbt becomes easier and cheaper to gain then tbt loses value for artists and artists will have to charge more tbt for their work


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## ktn (May 17, 2016)

Dang, didn't know about this. I'll sign.


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

Marinette said:


> I'm sorry for saying this but whom are you to decide what people do and do not buy?
> You may have a PSA, but that does not mean everyone will automatically accept what you're saying-
> There are always going to be people against, and there will always be people selling for lower prices.
> That's business, at the end of the day.



Yes, but illegitimate businesses should be stopped, correct? Items sold here are meant to be only items that you've earned legitimately through playing the game. Unorderable sets take days to put together and the only people who will be selling them for that price are hackers.

One rotten apple spoils the bunch: as long as there's one person selling hacked goods, no one else can make a profit.


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## Pandoria (May 17, 2016)

Aronthaer said:


> Yes, but illegitimate businesses should be stopped, correct? Items sold here are meant to be only items that you've earned legitimately through playing the game. Unorderable sets take days to put together and the only people who will be selling them for that price are hackers.
> 
> One rotten apple spoils the bunch: as long as there's one person selling hacked goods, no one else can make a profit.



Of course however there are so many "rotten apples" in circulation now how are we to know which are and are not legitimate? Surely you cannot go around accusing members of illegitimately getting their items if you do not know for a fact they have.


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## Cascade (May 17, 2016)

Aronthaer said:


> Unorderable sets take days to put together and the only people who will be selling them for that price are hackers.



agree


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## aleshapie (May 17, 2016)

Aronthaer said:


> Yes, but illegitimate businesses should be stopped, correct? Items sold here are meant to be only items that you've earned legitimately through playing the game. Unorderable sets take days to put together and the only people who will be selling them for that price are hackers.
> 
> One rotten apple spoils the bunch: as long as there's one person selling hacked goods, no one else can make a profit.


Well said! Justin even chimed in in *loosely* agreement!


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## Hayate (May 17, 2016)

Aronthaer said:


> Yes, but illegitimate businesses should be stopped, correct? Items sold here are meant to be only items that you've earned legitimately through playing the game. Unorderable sets take days to put together and the only people who will be selling them for that price are hackers.
> 
> One rotten apple spoils the bunch: as long as there's one person selling hacked goods, no one else can make a profit.



People can sell at whatever price they want to. I have un-orderable stuff I got when I was playing years ago while it was getting distributed for, guess what, free. I can give them away for free, sell them for 1 BTB (Bell tree bells, TBT is the website). All my items are real, doesn't mean I need to charge a ridiculous amount of a technically worthless (since you can't use BTB for real money trades, which is smart) currency.


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

Marinette said:


> Of course however there are so many "rotten apples" in circulation now how are we to know which are and are not legitimate? Surely you cannot go around accusing members of illegitimately getting their items if you do not know for a fact they have.



I don't want to bring up names, but the major trader a few months back reloaded her town with powersaves every night so she never lost anything. I bought almost every flower from her town, placed another order the next day and they were all back.

Of course I can't stop "rotten apples" that are still in circulation. that's why I waited until just about nothing's being sold to make this PSA. There aren't rotten apples in circulation because NOTHING'S in circulation.


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## aleshapie (May 17, 2016)

Marinette said:


> Of course however there are so many "rotten apples" in circulation now how are we to know which are and are not legitimate? Surely you cannot go around accusing members of illegitimately getting their items if you do not know for a fact they have.



Yes...I have NO problem assuming I am looking at a hacker when they have UNLIMITED unorderable sets for sale at a moment's notice and sell them for peanuts! Thats not rocket science!


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## Pandoria (May 17, 2016)

I am not trying to cause any conflict and therefore I apologise if I've said anything to upset anyone.
I was just trying to put my opinion across, assuming that's what the creator of this thread wanted.


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

Marinette said:


> I am not trying to cause any conflict and therefore I apologise if I've said anything to upset anyone.
> I was just trying to put my opinion across, assuming that's what the creator of this thread wanted.



No worries! I appreciate any and all input and advice, as this is a massive change I'm proposing. I love debating and often get waayy too into it is all haha

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aleshapie said:


> Yes...I have NO problem assuming I am looking at a hacker when they have UNLIMITED unorderable sets for sale at a moment's notice and sell them for peanuts! Thats not rocket science!



Thank you.


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## Mints (May 17, 2016)

I agree with everything you just said. I doubt this is going to work but, at least we tried.


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## Pandoria (May 17, 2016)

Aronthaer said:


> No worries! I appreciate any and all input and advice, as this is a massive change I'm proposing. I love debating and often get waayy too into it is all haha
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



I just felt like my intelligence was being questioned and therefore, before I take any offence, I will step out ;u;
I won't be signing myself, because I do not share your opinion on the whole matter.


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## himeki (May 17, 2016)

TBH now just to prove a point i wanna sell all my IGB for a rate of 1:1mil


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## Hayate (May 17, 2016)

MayorEvvie said:


> TBH now just to prove a point i wanna sell all my IGB for a rate of 1:1mil



This is the point. You should be allowed to decide your own rate for your own imaginary made up pixels from a game.


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## OverRatedcx (May 17, 2016)

I joined at a really awkward time, haha :c I'll sign. I'd like to see how tbt changes from this!


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## Stil (May 17, 2016)

MayorEvvie said:


> TBH now just to prove a point i wanna sell all my IGB for a rate of 1:1mil



gl with that..


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## aleshapie (May 17, 2016)

Hayate said:


> This is the point. You should be allowed to decide your own rate for your own imaginary made up pixels from a game.



Good point. That's a free market, which is the whole point. Maybe the petition (for lack of a better term) should be to promote the use of the REPORT button for those that need to be further looked into by mods!


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

Hayate said:


> This is the point. You should be allowed to decide your own rate for your own imaginary made up pixels from a game.



Oh boy.

Of course, you can decide how to price your items. that's fine. what I'm saying is that the current ACNL buyers have a preset mindset as to how expensive items are. For instance, a lot of people expect to find 1 TBT hybrids, and while they certainly can, they have to understand that the AVERAGE price for unorderables will no longer be 2-5 TBT because that's unworkable unless you're quitting or hacking (the latter of which is what I want to prevent at all costs.) If you want to give away things, that's very kind, but the current mindset is that people EXPECT to find items for almost nothing. that's why shops are dead. No one wants to buy things for what they're actually worth anymore.


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## Hayate (May 17, 2016)

aleshapie said:


> Good point. That's a free market, which is the whole point. Maybe the petition (for lack of a better term) should be to promote the use of the REPORT button for those that need to be further looked into by mods!



The game has no counter to "hacked items" (Reloading a save so you still have items is more of an exploit) and the main issue with un-orderable sets and DLC is the fact that the creators decided to add in regional limited items.

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Aronthaer said:


> Oh boy.
> 
> Of course, you can decide how to price your items. that's fine. what I'm saying is that the current ACNL buyers have a preset mindset as to how expensive items are. For instance, a lot of people expect to find 1 TBT hybrids, and while they certainly can, they have to understand that the AVERAGE price for unorderables will no longer be 2-5 TBT because that's unworkable unless you're quitting or hacking (the latter of which is what I want to prevent at all costs.) If you want to give away things, that's very kind, but the current mindset is that people EXPECT to find items for almost nothing. that's why shops are dead. No one wants to buy things for what they're actually worth anymore.



Nothing is really worth anything though, this is the point. None of it has any value. And the current prices are the current prices because this is what / where the market is at after years of trading. And now a single person wants to decide the prices by themselves? Alright then, seems legit


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## aleshapie (May 17, 2016)

Hayate said:


> The game has no counter to "hacked items" (Reloading a save so you still have items is more of an exploit) and the main issue with un-orderable sets and DLC is the fact that the creators decided to add in regional limited items.



No. The "report" button here on tbt. Its next to the "thumbs up"


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

Hayate said:


> (Reloading a save so you still have items is more of an exploit)



Just going to say this. The game autosaves when you finish a trade, the only reason people can reload their save is because they have a powersave which is a HACKING device. plus, the rules also say you cannot use glitches or exploits to obtain your items.

- - - Post Merge - - -



The amount of users viewing is worrying me tbh


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## Hayate (May 17, 2016)

aleshapie said:


> No. The "report" button here on tbt. Its next to the "thumbs up"


I have legit never seen that before...
And my point is, the items don't break your game. The game has no counter. Yea the website rules say you can't. But when the game has been out for three years and there is a load of items you can't obtain anymore, this is the issue. Why did they ever release items you can never obtain again years down the line. It's just unfair on people who join the game later on. 



Aronthaer said:


> Just going to say this. The game autosaves when you finish a trade, the only reason people can reload their save is because they have a powersave which is a HACKING device. plus, the rules also say you cannot use glitches or exploits to obtain your items.


Or you can back up the save file before the trade. And you can probably do it without a hacking device. And you earlier said you have bought from someone who did this. So you knowingly helped the hacker earn from there rule breaking which you are now against.


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## N e s s (May 17, 2016)

Man, Tldr PLEASE.

I read the ideas though, good ideas.


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

Hayate said:


> Or you can back up the save file before the trade. And you can probably do it without a hacking device. And you earlier said you have bought from someone who did this. So you knowingly helped the hacker earn from there rule breaking which you are now against.



ACNL doesn't allow you to backup your saves: I have both a physical and digital copy.

Also, I bought from them back then because they swore that their items were legit and I gave them the benefit of the doubt. also, it was what everyone did at the time: however, their horribly low prices are too difficult to work with any more.


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## debinoresu (May 17, 2016)

decent idea but i like the current exchange rate bc i can really quickly make some ac money by just selling hardly any of my tbt. i know im part of the problem but oh well lmao


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

debinoresu said:


> decent idea but i like the current exchange rate bc i can really quickly make some ac money by just selling hardly any of my tbt. i know im part of the problem but oh well lmao



haha, I know how it feels. but honestly, how many people have been selling money at that rate lately? No one is selling their IGB because a post with a poll in Brewster's Cafe earns them more than a legitimate trade.


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## Hayate (May 17, 2016)

Aronthaer said:


> ACNL doesn't allow you to backup your saves: I have both a physical and digital copy.
> 
> Also, I bought from them back then because they swore that their items were legit and I gave them the benefit of the doubt. also, it was what everyone did at the time: however, their horribly low prices are too difficult to work with any more.



Their horrible low prices for worthless items with a worthless currency. None of the stuff has value. The prices shouldn't matter at all. Charge what you like, people will only pay what they want. This is how a competitive market naturalizes itself. If you set the price, there is no market, there is no competition. What is the point then? You may as well issue item tickets out so people can redeem them from the first shop they see on the forums.


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## pandapples (May 17, 2016)

Unfortunately, as long as there are people selling at low prices, people will buy from them. Also, isn't the lack of item trading in the TBT marketplace because trading has been moved to Retail?


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

Hayate said:


> Their horrible low prices for worthless items with a worthless currency. None of the stuff has value. The prices shouldn't matter at all. Charge what you like, people will only pay what they want. This is how a competitive market naturalizes itself. If you set the price, there is no market, there is no competition. What is the point then? You may as well issue item tickets out so people can redeem them from the first shop they see on the forums.



If you don't collect TBT, fine. but it's far from worthless, people make TBT exchanges on here every day.

Once again, I'm not trying to set the price. I'm REsetting it back to a reasonable amount after the wave of hackers we had,


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## Hayate (May 17, 2016)

Aronthaer said:


> If you don't collect TBT, fine. but it's far from worthless, people make TBT exchanges on here every day.
> 
> Once again, I'm not trying to set the price. I'm REsetting it back to a reasonable amount after the wave of hackers we had,



It's BTB though, bell tree bells. Yea, people trade for it. But they don't trade for real money. So how is it worth anything.


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

pandapples said:


> *Unfortunately, as long as there are people selling at low prices, people will buy from them.* Also, isn't the lack of item trading in the TBT marketplace because trading has been moved to Retail?



That's the point of my post. Everyone would rather buy unorderables at 5TBT than 50TBT, but the only reason the prices were 5 and not 50 was because hackers made massive profits off of cutting prices.

Also, Retail is only for IGB purchases, isn't it?


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## Pandoria (May 17, 2016)

Aronthaer said:


> That's the point of my post. Everyone would rather buy unorderables at 5TBT than 50TBT, but the only reason the prices were 5 and not 50 was because hackers made massive profits off of cutting prices.
> 
> Also, Retail is only for IGB purchases, isn't it?



Nope, Re-tail is for both IGB and TBT!


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

Marinette said:


> Nope, Re-tail is for both IGB and TBT!



Ah, I missed that part of the direct. thank you.


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## Pandoria (May 17, 2016)

Aronthaer said:


> Ah, I missed that part of the direct. thank you.



No need for thanks~


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## OverRatedcx (May 17, 2016)

Marinette said:


> Nope, Re-tail is for both IGB and TBT!



That's actually incorrect? Re-tail is for IGB only. The TBT Marketplace is where you make TBT payments for AC items, hence its name. I've seen a bunch of threads regarding tbt purchases which were moved to the Marketplace. Not only that, it says in the guidlines that "TBT purchases are to be made in the TBT Marketplace."


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## Ookami (May 17, 2016)

OverRatedcx said:


> That's actually incorrect? Re-tail is for IGB only. The TBT Marketplace is where you make TBT payments for AC items, hence its name. I've seen a bunch of threads regarding tbt purchases which were moved to the Marketplace. Not only that, it says in the guidlines that "TBT purchases are to be made in the TBT Marketplace."




Don't they mean the collectibles only though..


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## Pandoria (May 17, 2016)

OverRatedcx said:


> That's actually incorrect? Re-tail is for IGB only. The TBT Marketplace is where you make TBT payments for AC items, hence its name. I've seen a bunch of threads regarding tbt purchases which were moved to the Marketplace. Not only that, it says in the guidlines that "TBT purchases are to be made in the TBT Marketplace."



I do apologise, I was just going off of my own personal experience, and the fact there are a lot of TBT sales in Re-Tail. I honestly think it's mainly collectible//non in game things that are supposed to be in the TBT Marketplace, however!


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## Jacob (May 17, 2016)

Decent idea but it won't work. It's essentially an economy that works along competition based rate systems.
People will buy more of the cheapest items. There is no sound way to make people sell at a guide rate or make people buy at a guide rate. 
Your ideas work in favor of TBT members who try to collect TBT and not animal crossing items, which is the opposite of what this website was intended for (selling and buying animal crossing items).

Tbt works along 2 different currencies which is why it will be almost impossible to keep a number. AC:NL bells are far easier to obtain than TBT bells so its hard to even compare the few without inflating/deflating the one or the other.

I don't want to sound rude, but you have been on this site for only a couple months, so I don't think you have much room to blame people for the inflation of the rates from IGB:TBT because I have read complaint threads from back in 2014 and 2013. 
If you were to blame it on something, blame it on collectibles. 

Even though I don't like to bring in villager trading rates, if you look at in context, you are asking people to pay nearly 1000-2000 tbt for T1 villagers like they did back in the day. But back in the day, as Zane mentioned, people had access to welcome bells which gave them an advantage. Villager trading is probably the biggest asset to the site and if you overwhelm new members with unachievable rates for furniture and villagers they will leave and we will lose all productivity that the site has worked towards.

Also, you want to make furniture and Bell rates higher, ex. 20+ TBT for a gold rose? 
How would this help the idea of hackers gaining above everyone. By raising the rates, it'll actually attract more hackers again and put more bells in their wallets to take over the site. There is no sound way of stopping hackers so this will be an issue wether we like it or not.

But you really can't make a standard rate on generated items that get produced much faster than TBT. 
Well you can try, but no one would respectfully follow it for more than a week, assuming the mods won't promote and make this a rule to follow - which I doubt they will. 
This argument is 2 sided but it wouldn't realistically take effect. This will even out with a next full animal crossing game I'm sure tho


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## pandapples (May 17, 2016)

"In a TBT Direct last year we mentioned reorganizing the trading boards to group all Animal Crossing transactions together. This change will start taking effect now and go even further to organize the trading boards by category instead of by currency. The Museum Shop will also be moved under the Museum to keep all art threads together. *To summarize the Animal Crossing changes, all item trading should now take place in Re-Tail* and all villager trading should take place in the Villager Trading Plaza regardless of currency. The TBT Marketplace will continue to be used for collectible and miscellaneous trading with TBT bells."

Here's the info from recent Direct


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## OverRatedcx (May 17, 2016)

Fidelio said:


> Don't they mean the collectibles only though..



"You may use forum bells with your item and villager exchanges, but all threads for such transactions should be made in TBT Marketplace." I don't think so?

- - - Post Merge - - -



pandapples said:


> "In a TBT Direct last year we mentioned reorganizing the trading boards to group all Animal Crossing transactions together. This change will start taking effect now and go even further to organize the trading boards by category instead of by currency. The Museum Shop will also be moved under the Museum to keep all art threads together. *To summarize the Animal Crossing changes, all item trading should now take place in Re-Tail* and all villager trading should take place in the Villager Trading Plaza regardless of currency. The TBT Marketplace will continue to be used for collectible and miscellaneous trading with TBT bells."
> 
> Here's the info from recent Direct



Ah, I didn't see that. I was just looking at the guidlines, which hasn't been updated for years. Ha. My apologies cx


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## Pandoria (May 17, 2016)

OverRatedcx said:


> "You may use forum bells with your item and villager exchanges, but all threads for such transactions should be made in TBT Marketplace." I don't think so?
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



I appreciate your apology~


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## Kirbystarship (May 17, 2016)

I'll sign this.

Dropping 10m on the grounds takes for ever.


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## Ookami (May 17, 2016)

Tardis2016 said:


> I'll sign this.
> 
> Dropping 10m on the grounds takes for ever.


Actually it does not. Only 5 -10 minutes of you're slow.


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## Aniko (May 17, 2016)

From what I saw, after more than a year spent here, what really made the rate that high is collectibles, pet smoothies (or whatever they call it) and stuff like that. I could also gave the name of the persons who really really wanted those collectibles last year and started buying TBT from other users at 8-10 mil for 100 TBT, (I know I sold mine) before those guys started buying all TBT available, 100 TBT still worth 3-5 mil. Later one user profited of this and asked 20 mil for 100 TBT and found buyers!!!...So I think it's how it's started, merchants were forced to lower their prices because of that rate.

If there are less stores, it's also because a lot of persons stopped playing ACNL when Home Designer came out. I also had a store where I was selling for bells, and it was the same, people want to pay "raisonnable prices" (meaning almost nothing) even if it means that the person selling had to play several hours to get the items. I prefer now selling  my extra for low price or keeping them for trade, and even so I get stuck with the items for weeks...


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## Skyfall (May 17, 2016)

It's a very interesting idea!  I like how you, and a few others, are at least trying to get a handle on the inflation.  

I have also gone round and round in my own head, once in a while, to understand how this mini-economy can be more equitable, especially to newbie's who never had access to some of the advantageous happenings early on in TBT history (i.e., the 100 TBT to 100,000 in-game bells exchange rate, the times when one unorderable item would cost 400 TBT, where one tier 1 villager could give them 2000 TBT, etc.)  Unfortunately, I've never been able to come up with a good thought.  

I'll sign.  Even if this fails, at least we tried something, right?


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## Stil (May 17, 2016)

Tardis2016 said:


> I'll sign this.
> 
> Dropping 10m on the grounds takes for ever.



Gotta agree with you there.


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## Aronthaer (May 17, 2016)

Jacob said:


> Decent idea but it won't work. It's essentially an economy that works along competition based rate systems.
> People will buy more of the cheapest items. There is no sound way to make people sell at a guide rate or make people buy at a guide rate.
> Your ideas work in favor of TBT members who try to collect TBT and not animal crossing items, which is the opposite of what this website was intended for (selling and buying animal crossing items).
> 
> ...



Your argument makes a lot of sense, and your points are very valid. however, I don't mean to blow up item prices as much as your post says. quite frankly, I think villager prices are the only thing on point right now: they're being sold for a decent price. maybe up it a little bit, but it can stay there. And hybrids won't be blown up a lot, since they can be mass-produced and people buy them by the hundreds. I simply wanted to correct things such as 5 TBT unorderables and 5 TBT golden tools, since those are just products of hacking. It's a hard market, to be sure, but I think we could adjust it to work a little better.

Also, I agree, this'll all be fixed when a new AC game comes around


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## LethalLulu (May 17, 2016)

First of all, petitions don't change the economy.  It's based off the law of supply and demand.  Supply is high and demand is low, two things that cause something to be incredibly cheap, even free.

Second of all, I don't think this thread even belongs here.


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## shendere (May 17, 2016)

Aronthaer said:


> Your argument makes a lot of sense, and your points are very valid. however, I don't mean to blow up item prices as much as your post says. quite frankly, I think villager prices are the only thing on point right now: they're being sold for a decent price. maybe up it a little bit, but it can stay there. And hybrids won't be blown up a lot, since they can be mass-produced and people buy them by the hundreds. I simply wanted to correct things such as 5 TBT unorderables and 5 TBT golden tools, since those are just products of hacking. It's a hard market, to be sure, but I think we could adjust it to work a little better.
> 
> Also, I agree, this'll all be fixed when a new AC game comes around



I don't know if villagers are still sold this much, but I used to sell them last year and others tier 1, used to go for at most 300TBT/BTB, there were others who were competing as well as this is a competitive place for tbt who sold for less like 250 for tier 1 or even 150 as time went on to get more buyers.  But yeah, tbt value increased a ton because of collectibles. If no one cared so much or WAIT FOR IT.... SOLD THEM LESS AND STOPPED FOLLOWING HIGH GUIDE PRICES, tbt would be saved a lottttttt more and shops would open more, I just think having the guides on collectibles ruins it and causes greedy users to get more bells out of you, just sell at whatever you want so what if a house is 5k? Sell it for 3.5k. You know? You don't have to follow the guides and go for high high prices all the time. Collectibles really went up ending of last year to now so that's basically all that's going around tbt, it's basically a collectible site now lol


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## N a t (May 17, 2016)

I like this idea, because the thought of making things kind of challenging again is fun. However, I like to be nice and often give stuff away or sell at low prices, because I feel like I'm doing people a favor. I traded with a girl on here once, and when she asked if I had the 7/11 set I gave the whole set to her for free since I never used it. I wanna think this over before I sign, not because I have an issue with being less generous, but really because I might forget that it's a bad idea to be overly generous and that it might combat this act.


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## f11 (May 17, 2016)

u gay bro?

How do you know it declined when u literally just joined.


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## tae (May 17, 2016)

what is this garbage.


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## radical6 (May 17, 2016)

THATS NOT HOW ECONOMY WORKS

YOU MIGHT AS WELL PETITION FOR COMMUNIST TBT!
(which i support!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)


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## tae (May 17, 2016)

"Why on earth would I want to pay more for things?

Have you noticed the lack of ACNL shops around TBT lately? There used to be all sorts of item shops, but now there's maybe one or two in use. Why is that, you ask? With the current asking rate for items, selling things in ACNL is no longer profitable for people."

it's literally bc not many ppl play acnl now... same with cycling it's a dying trade. not bc of prices, but bc everyone is far along in their main towns and already have everything they need.. 

this thread is completely pointless.


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## lizzy541 (May 17, 2016)

exchange rates will keep fluctuating no matter what, so a 'set price' seems unachievable. raising the rate may work for a short period of time, but it will most likely end back to where it is now eventually.


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## ZetaFunction (May 17, 2016)

Sign!  But I don't think this is going to work unless everyone is in the same mindset.... 

There are a lot of reasons why I don't think this will work, but one of the main ones are: collectibles.  Greedy people powersave and such to get TBT to buy the rare ones, not caring about deflating the IGB value.  That's why the did it in the first place.... and, it's also why the collectible prices have inflated like stupid lately.  If you look back at the TBT history, you'll see IGB/TBT rates increase, and at the same time, collectible values increase as well.  They're related.  Take away collectibles, and you'll see a lot less people cheating for TBT.  They're, unfortunately, what damaged and is still damaging the TBT economy, and also the one reason why TBT is still super active.  It gives everyone something to do when they're not playing AC:NL, Pokemon, creating art, shtposting, etc.

But, if enough people do it, it might work.  1 TBT = 25k IGB seems a stretch, but, maybe 1 TBT = 100k IGB?  That sounds doable.  Maybe, after the restocks, I'll farm beetles and sell some IGB at that rate.  I'll probably get no customers though LOL.
^ see the issue?
You can't really fix it because.... who would want to buy that much IGB from me for that much TBT, when other's will pay more IGB for the same amount of TBT?  Like....  if I tried that, people would hate me, report my thread, dislike me and say "y u tryina make tbt off my homie???  go troll elsewhere!!1!11!"

But this is a good start towards fixing it.  Make everyone aware, including new members, and eventually, if everyone's not greedy for one bloody second, and everyone agrees on something for once (heavens know it'll never happen), then it's possible to fix.  It's going to take a long time though before everyone on here is aware, or isn't greedy, for this is begin taking place.


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## princesse (May 17, 2016)

I signed already, but I feel like if, hypothetically speaking, the prices per btb is 25k. Soon enough, people will complain about how everything is more expensive and make a thread saying to move the price per btb up.


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## Seroja (May 17, 2016)

Hmmm I kind of agree. I only became active in April this year after the exchange rate became 1:200K. I'm super poor now after selling all of ma bells. I also set the price in my shop based on what I saw in other shops that were set up before mine. Had no idea they were sold for much more :/ wish I was active back then.


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## Stil (May 17, 2016)

People need to understand that being greedy with our BTB wont get us anywhere. To make the economy flourish we need to have active buyers pushing out a lot of BTB, not just hog it all. Yeah, I get it, we will be paying more but if we are just handed everything super cheap then that would be no fun. Otherwise the rich get all they want and the new members are stuck with 50 BTB for the hybrids or sets they worked very hard for.


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## Minties (May 18, 2016)

Infinity said:


> People need to understand that being greedy with our BTB wont get us anywhere. To make the economy flourish we need to have active buyers pushing out a lot of BTB, not just hog it all. Yeah, I get it, we will be paying more but if we are just handed everything super cheap then that would be no fun. Otherwise the rich get all they want and the new members are stuck with 50 BTB for the hybrids or sets they worked very hard for.



>not be greedy
> has 7 toy hammers

Okay friend.



I think people should just find ways to make bells? Sell art or items or villagers or your body whatever. It's not impossible, people just want things handed to them.


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## f11 (May 18, 2016)

Ha get rekt infinity 

Mounties basically summed up what i was thinking


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## Corrie (May 18, 2016)

This is gonna sound horrible. I think the rates are insane but are also pretty sweet when it comes to selling your tbt for in game bells. If you needed millions, you could get them in seconds due to so many people being thirsty for tbt. XD


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## Stil (May 18, 2016)

Minties said:


> >not be greedy
> > has 7 toy hammers
> 
> Okay friend.
> ...



First off, dont call me friend. 
Second, I busted my *** to get my Hammers. Payed 7500 a piece. Never once made a restock or won a giveaway.
Third, Ask anybody on TBT that has bought a collectible from me if I'm greedy. I ALWAYS pay high end guide prices and I sell my collectibles hundreds or even thousands under guide price. 

Dont act like you know me kid, because you dont. 

As for you Crys, you mean nothing to me and anybody who thinks its funny to go around and call people "gay" is a child in my book. 

Sorry kiddos, but the only people getting "rekt" is you c:


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## seliph (May 18, 2016)

Infinity said:


> Otherwise the rich get all they want and the new members are stuck with 50 BTB for the hybrids or sets they worked very hard for.


2 words: git gud



Infinity said:


> As for you Crys, you mean nothing to me and anybody who thinks its funny to go around and call people "gay" os a child in my book.



This is so straight



Infinity said:


> Sorry kiddos, but the only people getting "rekt" is you c:



Yall think you can change the tbt economy just by having a handful of people pay higher for items that are hardly in demand anymore this thread and everyone signing were rekt from the start.


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## Minties (May 18, 2016)

D'aww struck a nerve. Sorry frienderino. I like how anyone that disagrees is branded a child though. Real smooth ya probably sub-20 edge lord. 

On topic - 
There's always a way to make TBT bells. This is the same parallel as in real life. There's always a way to make money if you want something. It's call hard work. 

A petition of 15 people is not going to make the thousands of users on TBT suddenly dump all their bells to help out people that just joined. By that logic, why don't we just give them all a pink feather just for joining TBT!


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## Stil (May 18, 2016)

nvll said:


> 2 words: git gud
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I never said "I" can change the economy. I said I support the idea to change it. c:


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## seliph (May 18, 2016)

Infinity said:


> I never said "I" can change the economy. I said I support the idea to change it. c:



When did I say you said "I", I said "yall".
Economies can't change with a petition like idk how it's apparently so hard to grasp that. If someone's scraping for TBT they can just make lengthy paragraphy posts (that are still on topic obviously), it isn't hard at all.


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## tae (May 18, 2016)

Infinity said:


> First off, dont call me friend.
> Second, I busted my *** to get my Hammers. Payed 7500 a piece. Never once made a restock or won a giveaway.
> Third, Ask anybody on TBT that has bought a collectible from me if I'm greedy. I ALWAYS pay high end guide prices and I sell my collectibles hundreds or even thousands under guide price.
> 
> ...



what are you babbling about. go donate to "fix the tbt economy"

- - - Post Merge - - -

you can earn like.. 20 tbt per post at max. which requires like a 200 something word could iirc...
make like 5 long posts a day and that's 100. easy money.


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## Stil (May 18, 2016)

Minties said:


> D'aww struck a nerve. Sorry frienderino. I like how anyone that disagrees is branded a child though. Real smooth ya probably sub-20 edge lord.
> 
> On topic -
> There's always a way to make TBT bells. This is the same parallel as in real life. There's always a way to make money if you want something. It's call hard work.
> ...



1. Don't flatter yourself. Im hot headed and I snap when people insult me, unlike some users who may be too timid to stand up for themselves. When did I say you were a child for disagreeing? Lol you have the right to say what you want, just don't insult people in the process.

2. Exactly, Hard work got me my hammers. So why am I greedy? Because its my favorite collectible and I want to fill my lineup?

3. Lol sure giving everybody a pink feather isn't at all an exaggeration. And like I previously stated, I am simply agreeing to change it. c:

- - - Post Merge - - -



nvll said:


> When did I say you said "I", I said "yall".
> Economies can't change with a petition like idk how it's apparently so hard to grasp that. If someone's scraping for TBT they can just make lengthy paragraphy posts (that are still on topic obviously), it isn't hard at all.



I was referring to me, not the group as a whole. Hence the word "I".


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## Seroja (May 18, 2016)

nvll said:


> When did I say you said "I", I said "yall".
> Economies can't change with a petition like idk how it's apparently so hard to grasp that. If someone's scraping for TBT they can just make lengthy paragraphy posts (that are still on topic obviously), it isn't hard at all.



I have to sadly agree with this. No one will want to pay 100tbt for 250kbells if they can get the same amount for 1tbt from someone else rip. I hope this is long enough to get a good amount of tbt tho.


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## Stil (May 18, 2016)

So can we end the conversation, or are we all gonna bicker like children because we are all too stubborn to walk away? I am very sick with the flu and I would really like to get back to watching the X-Files with my Fiance.


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## Nightmares (May 18, 2016)

taesaek said:


> what are you babbling about. go donate to "fix the tbt economy"
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



No, pretty sure the maximum per post is like 10.5 TBT

Don't count me on that though


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## Mellyjan3 (May 18, 2016)

I kind of agree with this but at the same time I don't... Its just forum currency and holds little value to me besides the fact that  you can buy _difficult to obtain_ items, like weeding day stuff that's hard to get for people like me with weed picking OCD or sloppy furniture (idk anyone whos ever come across the whole set themselves forreal forreal) that some people ask 1mil bells a piece for. It inspires me to post and actually talk about the game rather than just be an entrepreneur.

- - - Post Merge - - -

I barely ever spend my in game bells because I never have more than like 3mil in my abd at a time lol.


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## seliph (May 18, 2016)

Infinity said:


> So can we end the conversation, or are we all gonna bicker like children because we are all too stubborn to walk away? I am very sick with the flu and I would really like to get back to watching the X-Files with my Fiance.



I never get posts like this, who or what is stopping you from leaving
Are you being held hostage
Should I call the police


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## Stil (May 18, 2016)

nvll said:


> I never get posts like this, who or what is stopping you from leaving
> Are you being held hostage
> Should I call the police



Its a respect thing.
I don't feel right bailing out on a conversation without warning.


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## LethalLulu (May 18, 2016)

Having a lot of collectibles or tbt = greedy

This is the mentality that I despise on tbt.

Infinity, you get those hammers and own them with pride.


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## Corrie (May 18, 2016)

LethalLulu said:


> Having a lot of collectibles or tbt = greedy
> 
> This is the mentality that I despise on tbt.
> 
> Infinity, you get those hammers and own them with pride.



And so what if someone is greedy? It's a dog eat dog world out there. You gotta do what you gotta do or you'll get left behind.


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## pipty (May 18, 2016)

SIGNING pls


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## endlesssky (May 18, 2016)

I'll sign. I think its a great idea, but it will be hard to reach your goal. Best of luck!


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## LethalLulu (May 18, 2016)

Corrie said:


> And so what if someone is greedy? It's a dog eat dog world out there. You gotta do what you gotta do or you'll get left behind.



I don't think you understand what I said lol.
I absolutely don't agree with people saying one is greedy for having more of something than someone else.


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## pipty (May 18, 2016)

Infinity said:


> Its a respect thing.
> I don't feel right bailing out on a conversation without warning.



Some people on here only think about themselves so i highly doubt they know what respect is lol. Also, this thread just further highlights those with sticks up their -. Loving your lineup btw.


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## Nightmares (May 18, 2016)

The only thing I find sorta greedy is when people buy 10 of the same item from a restock xD
If you've earned and worked hard for enough TBT, I don't care if you're buying a load from the Marketplace


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## Seroja (May 18, 2016)

LethalLulu said:


> I don't think you understand what I said lol.
> I absolutely don't agree with people saying one is greedy for having more of something than someone else.



I think they were agreeing with you and further said being greedy is necessary to survive. I think...


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## shendere (May 18, 2016)

Infinity said:


> First off, dont call me friend.
> Second, I busted my *** to get my Hammers. Payed 7500 a piece. Never once made a restock or won a giveaway.
> Third, Ask anybody on TBT that has bought a collectible from me if I'm greedy. I ALWAYS pay high end guide prices and I sell my collectibles hundreds or even thousands under guide price.
> 
> ...



I ain't even gonna play, but infinity is nothing close to greedy. They really do sell things very, very cheap. And if you looked at their threads they've been trying to SELL ALL THOSE HAMMERS FOR LIKE 5K BEFORE. That's beyond cheap for hammers. I've bought things from them below guide prices. I really agree with you infinity. People are greedy. Not everyone has art skills to go make art and not everyone can go cycle villagers because they have two game cartidges or wanna mess up their save files or have powersave to back it up. Like seriously. BTB is hard to get, hell yeah, but it's not right to hoard 20k+ hoard restocks sell for 5k and up and to do what? Like come on. Be fair and less greedy. Collectibles really ruined this site, it really did. It was fun at first around last year but up until middle of last year to now, it's just awful. But don't think everyone can go sell art or villagers, not everyone can be able to do those things. I understand people wanna save bells and that's great but don't be greedy with collectibles when you've got tons of bells and tons of collectibles when people who don't have much are really looking not even to sell but for themselves to use.

This thread should be locked because it's spurring too much drama between people honestly.

Anyway, hope you all chill out and be kind, have an opened mind and actually start being genuinely friendly people like some other TBT users on here who make people like me and older users actually want to stick around. Goodnight.


Edit: also, let me clarify, having a lot of tbt and collectibles is NOT what makes someone greedy on here. Having a lot of both or one or the other and not using it but caring to just sell them or have them hidden all the time or have a lot and sell all very high is what is called greedy to me and most users here. Not those who have 20k+ saved and tons of feathers (or whatever) but actually use them and plan on not usually selling.


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## strawberrywine (May 18, 2016)

This is so dumb tbh, you can't just change the economy just by saying so lmfao.


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## Heyden (May 18, 2016)

DEMAND SUPPLY IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW


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## skarmoury (May 18, 2016)

I took one year of economics class and almost failed, so my credibility with this stuff ain't that good, but I haven't really heard of an economy being driven by petitions...

As a lot have said, markets are driven by supply and demand, and this function depends on whatever invisible hand controls the economy. Ultimately, no one can control the flow of the market. (Unless you're the government-- you can make price changes, I guess, but that's out of context.)
This huge drop from 1:200,000 to 1:25,000 is not going to work, and it will honestly break the market. If you want to make changes, do it slowly. Go from 1:200,000 to 1:190,000 or something like that and see what changes in the market may take place and whether it's good or bad. I remember the analogy of my teacher this way-- in cooking a live frog, you don't go from 0 degrees to, say, 50 degrees real quick, or else the frog will notice and flee. You cook a live frog by slowly increasing the temperature. Same goes for the market-- if you want to make changes, do so in small ways. Sell stuff slightly higher, but not too high. If no one complains, increase it a bit more. See what the limit of the market is, or to what extent the market will go for this certain item. The demand and supply function varies with increasing problems and factors, so try experimenting changes in prices and supply.
Also, I believe the reason why the value of IGB is so low is because of hackers and such and so on. Maybe we won't eliminate all the cheaters, but increasing prices only gives them the upper hand. Hackers will eventually battle out for low prices (to increase demand) and eventually the market will return to its low-IGB-value state. Really nothing you can do with this; maybe switch to a different business? Probably don't force yourself to invest in something that you know won't work out well for you. Unless you want to, of course, but profit-wise if you're just going to complain about the market values, just switch to a different shop.

I can't say much for collectibles. You're not really going to get anywhere by screaming at sellers/hoarders that their prices are too high. By rule of free-market economy, the market will fix itself.
Also, if you're truly dedicated into getting that collectible, you're going to have to work hard. Nothing worth having comes easy. 

Again, not saying I'm right because economics was one of my worsts, but these are my two cents. ^^;


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## iicookehmonstar (May 18, 2016)

I'll sign, the high prices really are ridiculous.


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## Aronthaer (May 18, 2016)

Hmm, maybe you're all right. I think that my suggested change might be too much all at once, and perhaps the lack of decent prices isn't because of hackers, but because a lack of demand.

The reason I didn't apply real-world economic policies is because in the real world, we don't have to deal with people making infinite goods for nothing and killing buying prices, which I truly believed was the cause for the ridiculous value of TBT. maybe it's just a case of supply and demand, who knows?

Anyhow, you've all given me a lot to think about, but I'm going to go ahead and close this thread. TBT is supposed to be a friendly place for us all to gather and share common interests, and there's too much flame going on for my liking. Before I go, however, let me just say this: this wasn't a petition, this was a reaction test. I wanted to see if people would react favorably or unfavorably to such a change. Having seen the replies, there's a lot of people saying yes, and even more saying no, so I don't know how to feel about all of this. Thank you all for your input, I appreciate everything that's been said here. it's helped me test the waters and find out all of your thoughts on the issue.

Closed~


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