# We Need More Mods to Combat Spam Threads.



## piichinu

It's ridiculous. I'd like to understand why certain threads aren't locked or deleted as soon as they're posted. I believe that this is the only solution to the problem. I do realize that the staff team is awfully busy but perhaps some new members who are able to devote all their time to this site are needed.


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## Shimmer

I very rarely see mods online in the online users lists whenever I come on, which is often. 

Unless they come on invisible, it seems like there are never mods on.


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## oath2order

No we don't.

Yeah they're on invisible.


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## Heyden

WE NEED AN AUSTRALIAN TO REPLACE GANDALF IM PERFECT


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## Red Cat

The issue you run into is that more mods can equal more bad mods. Then you run the risk of legitimate threads getting locked because of a mod who doesn't really know what (s)he is doing. I think it would be better to educate users on how to deal with spam threads (don't post in them) because telling a spammer to stop spamming just encourages them to spam more. And you can't completely stop them from making alts and coming back to cause more trouble, so more mods isn't necessarily the answer. That doesn't mean one or two more wouldn't help though.


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## Shimmer

oath2order said:


> No we don't.
> 
> Yeah they're on invisible.



If they are, they shouldn't be. What if someone needs help? Sure they could pick a mod at random and hope they're online but it shouldn't be that way. 

One could argue that if regular members could go invisible then mods could but they're mods. Their job is to help other members. If they can't handle it, they shouldn't be mods. I know firsthand that being a mod can be annoying when you have people bugging you 24/7 but you're a mod, that's how it is unfortunately.

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Red Cat said:


> The issue you run into is that more mods can equal more bad mods. Then you run the risk of legitimate threads getting locked because of a mod who doesn't really know what (s)he is doing. I think it would be better to educate users on how to deal with spam threads (don't post in them) because telling a spammer to stop spamming just encourages them to spam more. And you can't completely stop them from making alts and coming back to cause more trouble, so more mods isn't necessarily the answer. That doesn't mean one or two more wouldn't help though.



We don't need more mods. We need ones that will be online often enough to help members.


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## piichinu

oath2order said:


> No we don't.



Wrong.



Red Cat said:


> The issue you run into is that more mods can equal more bad mods. Then you run the risk of legitimate threads getting locked because of a mod who doesn't really know what (s)he is doing. I think it would be better to educate users on how to deal with spam threads (don't post in them) because telling a spammer to stop spamming just encourages them to spam more. And you can't completely stop them from making alts and coming back to cause more trouble, so more mods isn't necessarily the answer.



Wrong.


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## Mariah

I think permanent bans need to start happening.


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## Red Cat

Izzy Reincarnated has been banned. That's a step in the right direction.

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carfax alt said:


> Wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.



Care to elaborate more on why you think I'm wrong?


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## piichinu

Mariah said:


> I think permanent bans need to start happening.



Definitely. 



Red Cat said:


> Care to elaborate more on why you think I'm wrong?



No.


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## oath2order

Shimmer said:


> If they are, they shouldn't be. What if someone needs help? Sure they could pick a mod at random and hope they're online but it shouldn't be that way.
> 
> One could argue that if regular members could go invisible then mods could but they're mods. Their job is to help other members. If they can't handle it, they shouldn't be mods. I know firsthand that being a mod can be annoying when you have people bugging you 24/7 but you're a mod, that's how it is unfortunately.



*farting noise*



Mariah said:


> I think permanent bans need to start happening.



Preach it.



Red Cat said:


> Care to elaborate more on why you think I'm wrong?



Oh come on it's someone using the name "carfax alt". I doubt you're going to get any real serious response.


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## simply_courtney

Hi I'm Courtney.


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## Llust

the mods have never been good at things like this. maybe on rare occasions, but imo they're just always really slow. i rarely go to a mod if i need anything anymore, unless i really need to. since i joined tbt, there are like two or three messages ive sent to mods but never got a response back. idk whats up with that but im letting it pass


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## piichinu

simply_courtney said:


> Hi I'm Courtney.



Hello Courtney.



oath2order said:


> Oh come on it's someone using the name "carfax alt". I doubt you're going to get any real serious response.



At least I'm genuine, according to Internet Protocol.


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## oath2order

carfax alt said:


> Hello Courtney.
> 
> 
> 
> At least I'm genuine, according to Internet Protocol.



what the heck are you on about


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## piichinu

oath2order said:


> what the heck are you on about



It is nothing. Do not worry yourself.


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## N e s s

Literally we don't need more mods.


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## piichinu

N e s s said:


> Literally we don't need more mods.



You would be a great mod, though.


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## N e s s

carfax alt said:


> You would be a great mod, though.



Maybe I could but i'm 14

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Thx for the compliment though <3


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## Chris

carfax alt said:


> It's ridiculous. I'd like to understand why certain threads aren't locked or deleted as soon as they're posted. I believe that this is the only solution to the problem. I do realize that the staff team is awfully busy but perhaps some new members who are able to devote all their time to this site are needed.



It's not as straightforward as you seem to think. Sometimes threads simply go unreported. Sometimes we're online and doing something else and TBT is just open in the background. We could be working on something else here on TBT (a different report, a PM, staff discussion, responding to other threads like this one) and simply not looking at reports while dealing with that. 

Adding more staff isn't an obvious fix as it seems. Other than it taking us a long time to determine who would even join us, that doesn't necessarily mean we'll be faster at getting to a problem the second it happens. We could double our staff team and still there would be times when no one is online. We all sleep, go to work or uni, etc. Anyone else we take on would also (presumably) have a life. 



Shimmer said:


> I very rarely see mods online in the online users lists whenever I come on, which is often.
> 
> Unless they come on invisible, it seems like there are never mods on.





Shimmer said:


> If they are, they shouldn't be. What if someone needs help? Sure they could pick a mod at random and hope they're online but it shouldn't be that way.
> 
> One could argue that if regular members could go invisible then mods could but they're mods. Their job is to help other members. If they can't handle it, they shouldn't be mods. I know firsthand that being a mod can be annoying when you have people bugging you 24/7 but you're a mod, that's how it is unfortunately.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> 
> 
> We don't need more mods. We need ones that will be online often enough to help members.



Right now 3/7 of our staff are online. We're just on invisible. 

If people need help they can message us and we will see it shortly. Most of us, if not all, are online daily. Just because you message a moderator who is online that second doesn't mean that we can take care of if straightaway.


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## ZetaFunction

Yes... and no.  More mods would definitely help get rid of those ridiculous random spam threads, and it would prevent a lot of flame wars on here.  But, how do you know they'll be able to be on 24/7?  Honestly, unless they devote their life to the internet, or you hire a crapton of them, you won't be able to solve the problem completely.  And as far as decent mods, I'm pretty sure that mods are chosen based on their past, i.e. immature members or members who broke the rules a lot are less likely to be chosen as mod than others.

The real solution, is perma-banning.  The trolls (yes, they're trolls, a.k.a. attention seekers) are just gonna keep coming back everytime you ban them, and they're gonna continue.  Like, literally, look at the spammer who've been banned multiple times.  They literally post another shtposting thread like an hour after their ban is lifted.  Give people a few chances, to change themselves, and after that, perma-ban.  Or the least the mods could do is extend ban-time based on the situation.  Like, if someone spams 24/7 that they're on TBT, give them a year-long ban.  If they just do it occasionally, give em a week or a month.

The other solution, which the members of TBT can do, is to ignore it.  Scroll past, and ignore their buffoonery.  If you post, it feeds the trolls, and it makes the trolls start to attack you, and others soon start to dislike you or hate you because of it.  Since the mods are likely not going to be able to ban people 24/7 or perma-ban, this is the only valid solution.  This thread itself is like a gallon of gasoline; there's going to be people saying that there's no spam, and that this is all bull****, which is going to start another flame war.  Wait until the next Animal Crossing game comes out if you want a permanent solution; we'll get a wealth of brand new members who /hopefully/ aren't as spam-inclined as the ones we have now.


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## piichinu

Lucanosa said:


> Yes... and no.  More mods would definitely help get rid of those ridiculous random spam threads, and it would prevent a lot of flame wars on here.  But, how do you know they'll be able to be on 24/7?  Honestly, unless they devote their life to the internet, or you hire a crapton of them, you won't be able to solve the problem completely.  And as far as decent mods, I'm pretty sure that mods are chosen based on their past, i.e. immature members or members who broke the rules a lot are less likely to be chosen as mod than others.
> 
> The real solution, is perma-banning.  The trolls (yes, they're trolls, a.k.a. attention seekers) are just gonna keep coming back everytime you ban them, and they're gonna continue.  Like, literally, look at the spammer who've been banned multiple times.  They literally post another shtposting thread like an hour after their ban is lifted.  Give people a few chances, to change themselves, and after that, perma-ban.  Or the least the mods could do is extend ban-time based on the situation.  Like, if someone spams 24/7 that they're on TBT, give them a year-long ban.  If they just do it occasionally, give em a week or a month.
> 
> The other solution, which the members of TBT can do, is to ignore it.  Scroll past, and ignore their buffoonery.  If you post, it feeds the trolls, and it makes the trolls start to attack you, and others soon start to dislike you or hate you because of it.  Since the mods are likely not going to be able to ban people 24/7 or perma-ban, this is the only valid solution.  This thread itself is like a gallon of gasoline; there's going to be people saying that there's no spam, and that this is all bull****, which is going to start another flame war.  Wait until the next Animal Crossing game comes out if you want a permanent solution; we'll get a wealth of brand new members who /hopefully/ aren't as spam-inclined as the ones we have now.



Haters, amirite.


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## Bloobloop

I don't think we need more mods, but some users on here that repeatedly create useless threads should just be permanently banned.


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## Llust

i feel like they'll just make a new account if they get a perm ban


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## Red Cat

Tina said:


> Right now 3/7 of our staff are online. We're just on invisible.


Why the heck would mods have invisible mode turned on? Isn't part of the role of a mod to be a visible presence (even if you are not really paying attention) to detract spammers from posting? You're not the secret service or an undercover agent.


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## Pokemanz

I think perma (or at least 6 month/over a year) bans are a good solution. If there's a user that's constantly spamming again and again after several bans, maybe an extended ban will give them time to grow up a little.

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Red Cat said:


> Why the heck would mods have invisible mode turned on? Isn't part of the role of a mod to be a visible presence (even if you are not really paying attention) to detract spammers from posting? You're not the secret service or an undercover agent.



Trolls tend to create spam threads when they don't see any mods online. Being on invisible is a good strategy for a number of reasons. Watching threads unfold is a major one.


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## Red Cat

Pokemanz said:


> Trolls tend to create spam threads when they don't see any mods online. Being on invisible is a good strategy for a number of reasons. Watching threads unfold is a major one.


They are not trying to break up a drug trafficking organization or uncover a terrorist plot. There is no need for a sting operation to find and destroy spammers. They are better off discouraging spammers from posting and if spammers still go ahead anyway then just ban them.


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## piichinu

stardusk said:


> i feel like they'll just make a new account if they get a perm ban



I know I would.


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## Pokemanz

Red Cat said:


> They are not trying to break up a drug trafficking organization or uncover a terrorist plot. There is no need for a sting operation to find and destroy spammers. They are better off discouraging spammers from posting and if spammers still go ahead anyway then just ban them.



I know for a fact that banning spammers for a day or two just gets them all excited to come back and wreak more havoc.


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## oath2order

carfax alt said:


> I know I would.



They can IP ban you know.



Pokemanz said:


> I think perma (or at least 6 month/over a year) bans are a good solution. If there's a user that's constantly spamming again and again after several bans, maybe an extended ban will give them time to grow up a little.



Spammers such as some of the ones previously in this thread would be banned for 6 months (the max that the mods here use, for the majority of offenses) in the past, dunno why not now.


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## Murray

Red Cat said:


> They are not trying to break up a drug trafficking organization or uncover a terrorist plot.



You'd be surprised!


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## Bloobloop

stardusk said:


> i feel like they'll just make a new account if they get a perm ban



You can only make alts with a different email account, I doubt anyone will go so far as to create multiple emails for the sole purpose of spamming a forum.


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## Mariah

Bloobloop said:


> You can only make alts with a different email account, I doubt anyone will go so far as to create multiple emails for the sole purpose of spamming a forum.



As someone with over 200 email accounts, I can tell you it doesn't take as long as you'd think it would to create them.


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## Llust

Bloobloop said:


> You can only make alts with a different email account, I doubt anyone will go so far as to create multiple emails for the sole purpose of spamming a forum.



i've actually done that a lot on a different forum board lol. kept getting banned, kept making new accounts. the other forum board i participated in was actually decent though (the mods were chill yet did their jobs, almost none of the members were immature by making **** posting threads, etc), thats the only reason why i kept making new accounts. tbt is turning into **** imo, so i really wouldnt care if i got banned here. anyway, creating a new email to make a new account takes less than ten minutes, so its not really trouble or time consuming


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## Chris

Red Cat said:


> Why the heck would mods have invisible mode turned on? Isn't part of the role of a mod to be a visible presence (even if you are not really paying attention) to detract spammers from posting? You're not the secret service or an undercover agent.



We all have our own individual reasons and we aren't required to explain. But y'know what? I'll indulge you on mine. I turn invisible on/off depending on how available I actually am - and right now I'm not available as much due to health issues and being only three months away from graduating university. Even if I have the forum open, I'm not actively browsing much of that time. I usually just look for a quick minute or so at the moment. 

People complain if they've messaged you and you don't prioritise their issue and deal with it immediately, as if they expect us to drop everything else for them that second - and some people can be incredibly rude about it. People treat us as if we're paid customer service staff forgetting that this is a volunteer position. We're here in our free time.


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## Red Cat

Mariah said:


> As someone with over 200 email accounts, I can tell you it doesn't take as long as you'd think it would to create them.



200? Why do you need that many unless you are a spammer yourself?

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Murray said:


> You'd be surprised!



So TBTerrorists are a real thing?


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## Mariah

Red Cat said:


> 200? Why do you need that many unless you are a spammer yourself?



I made them years ago to get referral rewards on a website.


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## Bloobloop

Mariah said:


> I made them years ago to get referral rewards on a website.


Were you able to actually get the rewards?


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## Mariah

Bloobloop said:


> Were you able to actually get the rewards?



Yes. I only had to make the accounts and confirm the emails.


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## Bloobloop

Mariah said:


> Yes. I only had to make the accounts and confirm the emails.



Ooh, I wanna try that.


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## Crash

i don't have much to say that hasn't already been said, but I think the mods do a pretty good job tbh. as Tina said, they're not doing this for money or really any type of reward, it's their own free time they give up to monitor what goes on here. and personally, I think they have every right to remain on invisible as well, for the same reason that a lot of us prefer being invisible. they're still _here_ regardless, and that's what matters. I can also say that at least 75% of the time I've seen a spam thread/troll/etc it's been taken care of pretty quickly.

however, I do agree that perma-banning/IP banning should definitely be a thing. besides the obvious spam threads, there's a handful of active users that literally do nothing but start **** with everyone or are just huge a**holes overall, and they usually don't stop no matter how many times they've been banned. it's something I've been noticing a lot more lately and it'd be nice to have that taken care of, but there's always gonna be someone like that everywhere, so.

but yea I really don't think we need more mods, everyone just needs to stop feeding the bull**** posts & that in itself would help a lot.​​​


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## KaydeeKrunk

That's why you need to report things that are spam or hate or anything that doesn't comply with the rules, if there are mod on that are on invisible that'd be the way for them to find out, especially like Tina said, I'm pretty sure they're more apt to see the report and catch the spam before they get a chance to scroll each section and find it themselves. So really that's why there is a report button on each and every post and thread, they're there to USE.


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## Belle of Pripyat

I'm surprised there are only 7 mods on a site this large. Seven sounds good when there's 200 members or so. I think there should be _at least_ 10-12 here.


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## Alienfish

Considering who's the OP.. why even.

Also I'm sure they do a good job, also if you don't like anything, just hit the report button and they'll take care of it.


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## Jake

I just skimmed through this thread and I have a few things to post form and outside perspective, and if people know me well then be prepared for an essay long post!!

First of all, this has been said, but most of the time mods are on invisible anyway, which is why you never really see them online - most of them don't seem to post unless they are posting something like "hey just a reminder this is against the rules", and usually stick to the mod boards. I'm not too sure which do/don't use invisible, but I'm pretty sure Jason is the only one who doesn't - then the rest turn it on and off at will. Tina explained this in her post, but obviously each staff member has reasoning for using invisible, and they probably have good reasoning (and I'd assume mostly comes down to availability as Tina said). Just from looking around the forum, as soon as there is an issue, most users seem to go straight to PM'ing the mod that's online, rather than using the report button, or make a thread in the HQ. Obviously this only means the mod that got sent the PM can see the issue, instead of all staff members, if the thread was reported. Then when this happens, I see a lot of petty and pointless reasons to PM a mod (I also remember reading something somewhere that users are still PM'ing mods when they stuff up sending collectibles/bells, instead of using the shop corrections), meaning said mod gets spammed with countless PM's, and having to sort through them is an issue when a lot of them are petty, making it harder to actually see threads that are in serious need of attention because they're flat out dealing with many minor issues racked up in their inbox. Mods also have a life outside of TBT blah blah blah, obviously they're not going to sit around trying to sort out forum issues, they have lives and tbh you shouldn't expect them to (obviously this would be helped if there were more staff members). But I honestly think a lot of the issues would be helped by user participation, rather than mod participation. If users properly knew when and where to report threads, then I think this would solve up a lot of issues. I know this because I have received plenty of PM's by users who seem to think I'm a mod for some reason. Not sure why they think I'm a mod, but this shows how little the forum members actually know about the report feature - they just PM the first available mod because they think that'll fix the issue quickly - when in reality the report button probably has a better outcome - and almost every single PM I've received has been something minor and petty that shouldn't really require that much attention, and should have been reported in the first place. And like just look at the TBT HQ, there are literally 3 threads on the first page about users getting locked out of their accounts due to the VTP twitter bot thing, they could have easily quickly browsed the first page to see the other threads of people with the same issue, and posted there asking for help, but instead they didn't bother browsing, and just made another thread of something that is only a few threads down and has been looked into. It's just a matter of users really lacking common sense in a way. They also make threads that could easily be answered by reading the stickied threads in certain boards, granted, these are usually made by newer members who probably don't know how to navigate the forums, but that still comes down to users not knowing how to forum (lol what is english). Whenever I join a new forum I make sure to look around a bit before asking any questions. 
Idk I can explain more but then this post will get longer than it's going to be already and I cbf typing all that. Basically I'm trying to say I guess staff use invisible because the majority of the users I see here just PM the first online moderator whenever there's an issue instead of using the report button, regardless of how big the issue is - and this issue could effectively be somewhat resolved if users actually knew how to use forums and the report button. Obviously I could be totally wrong with this post, but that's just from what I see as an outside perspective.

Secondly, there really do need to be more staff members. Looking back on the past year, TBT lost 5 moderators - ZR, Kaiaa, Gallows, Thunder and Gandalf - and only replaced them with three, math equals the forums has 2 less staff members than this time last year. TBT has a really large user interface, and literally 7 staff members is not enough (even last year when there were 9 still wasn't enough). Lots of the staff have jobs or go to uni and it's physically impossible to have at least one moderator online at any given time given their personal lives, and the large activity of the forum with only 7 mods - but I'm guessing there's probably a reasoning as to why there isn't a lot of staff. Most of the forums users stick to the AC boards, and don't really ever leave them. This is obviously an issue because the staff have said they are most likely not going to promote a user to moderator if they do not know them well. Since a good 70% of the forums users post solely in the AC boards, that essentially means there are less users who are mod worthy. Then of the remaining 30% who don't post outside the AC boards, they're either too young, immature, trolls, or not serious, etc... making it difficult to actually find someone who is moderator material.

That said though, I've always thought TBT should join the ranks of other forums and have specific mods to moderate specific boards, and have "AC moderators" who specifically moderate the AC boards. Out of the current mods, the only one I think who still plays AC is LaBelle, and even then, I don't think she's that much of a hardcore player? Idk from my perspective it just seems a tad difficult (not sure if difficult is the correct word) to moderate the AC boards when you don't really play the game or even care that much for it. If they had specific AC mods who actually played and cared for the game, it'd make things a lot easier -  the current mods could focus more on the non-AC boards which I guess they "understand" more, whilst the AC mods could moderate the AC boards and help them out - because from what I see in the AC boards, there are a lot of rule breaks, that most likely go unreported, because as I said before, lots of users don't really know how to use the report button properly. Mods don't go and seek out 24/7 posts that break rules, they rely upon the report button, but obviously having AC mods would have users checking these boards and hopefully cut down on the spam and what not on those boards. But that'll most likely never happen because I suggested it to Jeff a few years ago and he wasn't too keen on the idea so whatever, it's obviously not detrimental to the forum, but it's really something I can see being used effectively is put in place.

And with that said, most of what I want to say has already been said here - when there's a spam thread, report it and move on, don't post there, you're just adding to the problem - and whatever else people have posted here (such as the mods not being strict enough. Granted, I get why they're not super strict, but they do seem really softcore when it comes to rule breaks and stuff compared to a lot of other forums. Maybe that's because I've spent a lot of time on GPX forums where you'll literally get a 10% warn increase, minimum, no matter how big of an offence you make - make a two words post? INSTANT 10% WARN INCREASE. Here if you do that, they just send you a warning as a reminder for post quality, it's not until you actually regularly commit the offence that you get an infraction and risk being banned. On GPX you literally just have to make 5 posts that have like 4 words or less and you're banned for 2 weeks. It's called something like the 4/25 rule, where each post should be 4 words and 25 letters long, or else it's not worth posting - this is actually a good rule I like to use when on most forums anyway, if your pots is any shorter than that then it's probably not worth posting in the first place (but this whole tangent was totally irrelevant oops). Obviously this is really strict ruling and I don't think TBT should have the same rules, but it should be a lot stricter than what it is. Of course it's nice to come on TBT and not be bombarded by a lot of strict rules, but I still think TBT could be at least somewhat striver than what they already are. I really do think a lot of the issues could be resolves, or at least minimized if users actually knew how to deal with trolls/spam threads etc - but even still, TBT needs more staff members because it's severely understaffed for a forum of it's size.


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## Acruoxil

Mariah said:


> I think permanent bans need to start happening.



I have mixed feelings about this. Keeping in mind this is a forum targeted at a very young age group, the mods will have to dismiss the mistakes children make while keeping them at a moderation. You can't just go around and indefinitely exclude a member from a forum which is made for people like them. Of course you'd say that that should apply to all other major forums then but like I said, it's a forum for a younger audience. Young people make mistakes, and you need to dismiss them while addressing them in a way they learn and don't repeat those mistakes again.


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## Justin

1) In regards to spam, just use the report button and don't post. Seriously, it's that simple. Many of these threads that are being referred to aren't even reported for possibly an hour or two, and are only reported by one person if even reported at all.

Just report the thread, move on, and resist engaging in it. It can be hard sometimes, but it's so simple and does wonders for the forum. (and by the way, that's one of the qualities we look for in future staff!)



2) We can _always_ use more staff, but as you can probably tell we're incredibly picky and for good reason. I know this may sound rude, but I do not see mass droves of users on the forum right now which would meet my expectations for a moderator.

With that being said, I do expect us to open up applications again in the near future, so you can look out for that if you think you'd be qualified. And of course we're always keeping names in our head to consider regardless of applications being open or not!



3) Permanent bans sound nice on paper but rarely work in reality. At best, they can serve as a punishment for losing that account's history (and collectibles/bells) if the user values that highly, but that's about it. If someone wants to remain on the forum and are determined enough, they will with another account eventually. That's already been discussed in this thread and I agree with everything said. There is no such thing as a truly permanent ban on the internet even if we wanted to.

Also, people really do improve and change themselves in time, especially as our nature of being a forum attractive to younger users. I'll even leave you some juicy gossip as an example: I was permanently banned once upon a time, a long long time ago! Now I run the place. Clearly that didn't end up so permanent after all, which is kind of the point too.


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## Jacob

Jake. said:


> That said though, I've always thought TBT should join the ranks of other forums and have specific mods to moderate specific boards


I would like to recommend some users, if I may.
(I have been thinking about this suggestion for a while, its just the people who have contributed most - imo - and are most mature in the specific board.)

Welcoming Board - Megatastic
TBT Marketplace - Sholee
Brewster's Cafe - Celestefey
Museum - WonderK (if he returns after uni)
Belltree HQ - Jake.
Animal Crossing (General Boards) - 3DewDrops, (some others but I don't go down there enough to know exactly who else)


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## KaydeeKrunk

Justin said:


> Also, people really do improve and change themselves in time, especially as our nature of being a forum attractive to younger users. I'll even leave you some juicy gossip as an example: I was permanently banned once upon a time, a long long time ago! Now I run the place. Clearly that didn't end up so permanent after all, which is kind of the point too.



^Pretty much, I used to be a massive ****poster, but now I'm not. Well, I mean, not _as much_ at least... And if we don't bait the spammers they will lose interest and maybe, just maybe, become actual good and active posters on here. There's always hope!


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## Justin

Oh and in regard to specific board mods, or I guess "local" mods as they would be called back in the day, we have considered that a few times in the past. (referring to Jake and Jacob's posts) Unfortunately it always breaks down for a few reasons. Namely that we would have to significantly change how we work as a team currently.

The great part of our current system of only having global moderators is that everyone is essentially on the same level and can be privy to everything. We discuss everything together and everyone has access to the same areas. That would have to change with local mods and could get messy.

Also, reports would be difficult as well as under our current system it would either be all reports or no reports. Once again, it doesn't make sense to give local mods access to all reports outside of their jurisdiction, but being a moderator without any reports wouldn't be suitable either.

So for those two reasons, among others I can't get into, the concept of local mods hasn't really gotten off the ground. Not to say that it's not impossible, but it's not as simple as it would seem at first glance.


----------



## Goth

Jake. said:


> ****ing Snip
> 
> And with that said, most of what I want to say has already been said here - when there's a spam thread, report it and move on, don't post there, you're just adding to the problem - and whatever else people have posted here (such as the mods not being strict enough. Granted, I get why they're not super strict, but they do seem really softcore when it comes to rule breaks and stuff compared to a lot of other forums. Maybe that's because I've spent a lot of time on GPX forums where you'll literally get a 10% warn increase, minimum, no matter how big of an offence you make - make a two words post? INSTANT 10% WARN INCREASE. Here if you do that, they just send you a warning as a reminder for post quality, it's not until you actually regularly commit the offence that you get an infraction and risk being banned. On GPX you literally just have to make 5 posts that have like 4 words or less and you're banned for 2 weeks. It's called something like the 4/25 rule, where each post should be 4 words and 25 letters long, or else it's not worth posting - this is actually a good rule I like to use when on most forums anyway, if your *pots* is any shorter than that then it's probably not worth posting in the first place (but this whole tangent was totally irrelevant oops). Obviously this is really strict ruling and I don't think TBT should have the same rules, but it should be a lot stricter than what it is. Of course it's nice to come on TBT and not be bombarded by a lot of strict rules, but I still think TBT could be at least somewhat striver than what they already are. I really do think a lot of the issues could be resolves, or at least minimized if users actually knew how to deal with trolls/spam threads etc - but even still, TBT needs more staff members because it's severely understaffed for a forum of it's size.



Please proof read before posting 

also on the topic if what you are saying is true then the mods need to make some sort of announcement or something about using the report button also I should be mod

- - - Post Merge - - -



Pokemanz said:


> I think perma (or at least 6 month/over a year) bans are a good solution. If there's a user that's constantly spamming again and again after several bans, maybe an extended ban will give them time to grow up a little.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> 
> 
> Trolls tend to create spam threads when they don't see any mods online. Being on invisible is a good strategy for a number of reasons. Watching threads unfold is a major one.



I wouldn't say 6 month bans would do anything


----------



## Blu Rose

guys let's be real, we need more members to combat the oligarchy 

is what i would've said when i joined this forum.  i honestly believe that i have matured over the course of my membership here, and have made some great friends.  while i don't get out of the basement much and thus don't have much witness testimony to the apparent corruption that is spam threads, i do believe that tbt is fine as it is, and that the staff is doing a beautiful job of keeping the place alive.  i do love how they usually have themed avatars (back when kaiaa started the harry potter one i was laughing so hard), and i also love how mich work they really do put into these forums.  heck, i love the mods themselves~
and, justin, i'm probs not on your list of qualified people, and i understand why XD


----------



## Red Cat

Jake. said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I just skimmed through this thread and I have a few things to post form and outside perspective, and if people know me well then be prepared for an essay long post!!
> 
> First of all, this has been said, but most of the time mods are on invisible anyway, which is why you never really see them online - most of them don't seem to post unless they are posting something like "hey just a reminder this is against the rules", and usually stick to the mod boards. I'm not too sure which do/don't use invisible, but I'm pretty sure Jason is the only one who doesn't - then the rest turn it on and off at will. Tina explained this in her post, but obviously each staff member has reasoning for using invisible, and they probably have good reasoning (and I'd assume mostly comes down to availability as Tina said). Just from looking around the forum, as soon as there is an issue, most users seem to go straight to PM'ing the mod that's online, rather than using the report button, or make a thread in the HQ. Obviously this only means the mod that got sent the PM can see the issue, instead of all staff members, if the thread was reported. Then when this happens, I see a lot of petty and pointless reasons to PM a mod (I also remember reading something somewhere that users are still PM'ing mods when they stuff up sending collectibles/bells, instead of using the shop corrections), meaning said mod gets spammed with countless PM's, and having to sort through them is an issue when a lot of them are petty, making it harder to actually see threads that are in serious need of attention because they're flat out dealing with many minor issues racked up in their inbox. Mods also have a life outside of TBT blah blah blah, obviously they're not going to sit around trying to sort out forum issues, they have lives and tbh you shouldn't expect them to (obviously this would be helped if there were more staff members). But I honestly think a lot of the issues would be helped by user participation, rather than mod participation. If users properly knew when and where to report threads, then I think this would solve up a lot of issues. I know this because I have received plenty of PM's by users who seem to think I'm a mod for some reason. Not sure why they think I'm a mod, but this shows how little the forum members actually know about the report feature - they just PM the first available mod because they think that'll fix the issue quickly - when in reality the report button probably has a better outcome - and almost every single PM I've received has been something minor and petty that shouldn't really require that much attention, and should have been reported in the first place. And like just look at the TBT HQ, there are literally 3 threads on the first page about users getting locked out of their accounts due to the VTP twitter bot thing, they could have easily quickly browsed the first page to see the other threads of people with the same issue, and posted there asking for help, but instead they didn't bother browsing, and just made another thread of something that is only a few threads down and has been looked into. It's just a matter of users really lacking common sense in a way. They also make threads that could easily be answered by reading the stickied threads in certain boards, granted, these are usually made by newer members who probably don't know how to navigate the forums, but that still comes down to users not knowing how to forum (lol what is english). Whenever I join a new forum I make sure to look around a bit before asking any questions.
> Idk I can explain more but then this post will get longer than it's going to be already and I cbf typing all that. Basically I'm trying to say I guess staff use invisible because the majority of the users I see here just PM the first online moderator whenever there's an issue instead of using the report button, regardless of how big the issue is - and this issue could effectively be somewhat resolved if users actually knew how to use forums and the report button. Obviously I could be totally wrong with this post, but that's just from what I see as an outside perspective.
> 
> Secondly, there really do need to be more staff members. Looking back on the past year, TBT lost 5 moderators - ZR, Kaiaa, Gallows, Thunder and Gandalf - and only replaced them with three, math equals the forums has 2 less staff members than this time last year. TBT has a really large user interface, and literally 7 staff members is not enough (even last year when there were 9 still wasn't enough). Lots of the staff have jobs or go to uni and it's physically impossible to have at least one moderator online at any given time given their personal lives, and the large activity of the forum with only 7 mods - but I'm guessing there's probably a reasoning as to why there isn't a lot of staff. Most of the forums users stick to the AC boards, and don't really ever leave them. This is obviously an issue because the staff have said they are most likely not going to promote a user to moderator if they do not know them well. Since a good 70% of the forums users post solely in the AC boards, that essentially means there are less users who are mod worthy. Then of the remaining 30% who don't post outside the AC boards, they're either too young, immature, trolls, or not serious, etc... making it difficult to actually find someone who is moderator material.
> 
> That said though, I've always thought TBT should join the ranks of other forums and have specific mods to moderate specific boards, and have "AC moderators" who specifically moderate the AC boards. Out of the current mods, the only one I think who still plays AC is LaBelle, and even then, I don't think she's that much of a hardcore player? Idk from my perspective it just seems a tad difficult (not sure if difficult is the correct word) to moderate the AC boards when you don't really play the game or even care that much for it. If they had specific AC mods who actually played and cared for the game, it'd make things a lot easier -  the current mods could focus more on the non-AC boards which I guess they "understand" more, whilst the AC mods could moderate the AC boards and help them out - because from what I see in the AC boards, there are a lot of rule breaks, that most likely go unreported, because as I said before, lots of users don't really know how to use the report button properly. Mods don't go and seek out 24/7 posts that break rules, they rely upon the report button, but obviously having AC mods would have users checking these boards and hopefully cut down on the spam and what not on those boards. But that'll most likely never happen because I suggested it to Jeff a few years ago and he wasn't too keen on the idea so whatever, it's obviously not detrimental to the forum, but it's really something I can see being used effectively is put in place.
> 
> And with that said, most of what I want to say has already been said here - when there's a spam thread, report it and move on, don't post there, you're just adding to the problem - and whatever else people have posted here (such as the mods not being strict enough. Granted, I get why they're not super strict, but they do seem really softcore when it comes to rule breaks and stuff compared to a lot of other forums. Maybe that's because I've spent a lot of time on GPX forums where you'll literally get a 10% warn increase, minimum, no matter how big of an offence you make - make a two words post? INSTANT 10% WARN INCREASE. Here if you do that, they just send you a warning as a reminder for post quality, it's not until you actually regularly commit the offence that you get an infraction and risk being banned. On GPX you literally just have to make 5 posts that have like 4 words or less and you're banned for 2 weeks. It's called something like the 4/25 rule, where each post should be 4 words and 25 letters long, or else it's not worth posting - this is actually a good rule I like to use when on most forums anyway, if your pots is any shorter than that then it's probably not worth posting in the first place (but this whole tangent was totally irrelevant oops). Obviously this is really strict ruling and I don't think TBT should have the same rules, but it should be a lot stricter than what it is. Of course it's nice to come on TBT and not be bombarded by a lot of strict rules, but I still think TBT could be at least somewhat striver than what they already are. I really do think a lot of the issues could be resolves, or at least minimized if users actually knew how to deal with trolls/spam threads etc - but even still, TBT needs more staff members because it's severely understaffed for a forum of it's size.


I agree that TBT should have a 4/25 rule. If your post is more than 4 paragraphs long and takes 25 minutes to read, then you should receive an infraction.


----------



## LambdaDelta

on the note of things we need, did all the obnoxious cutesy text people quit the site or just hole themselves up in the art/trading/basement boards? because I've just noticed that I don't think I've seen any of their kind since I returned from holidays


----------



## kelpy

I love TBT so much but honestly these spammy threads frustrate me. What we don't need is more mods, we need junior mods or invisible mods or something. Like maybe they get a new mod, this one's an invisible mod. AKA you can't go to their profile, you can't pm them or anything. They just go through the forums, looking at threads and making sure there's no spammy or flaming hot argument threads. They should be able to lock a thread. Whether or not the involved users get any warnings, bans etc, is up to the admins. Probably stupid mostly because I'm a huge dummy but whatever. It's just an idea and that's all it'll ever be.


----------



## LambdaDelta

but we constantly have invisible mods

unless you mean like some person(s) that have moderator as their permissions user group but their display group is a normal member


----------



## kelpy

LambdaDelta said:


> but we constantly have invisible mods
> 
> unless you mean like some person(s) that have moderator as their permissions user group but their display group is a normal member



YESSS Like that. Like a undercover cop.


----------



## Isabella

carfax alt said:


> It's ridiculous. I'd like to understand why certain threads aren't locked or deleted as soon as they're posted. I believe that this is the only solution to the problem. I do realize that the staff team is awfully busy but perhaps some new members who are able to devote all their time to this site are needed.



Well as it's been stated on this thread, since there aren't a lot of mods atm, they can't be on 24/7. I saw Justin's post on the matter & I gotta say, maybe it's time to start trying new things and giving people a chance because this place is huge & honestly needs more moderation. Nobody is "born" a moderator, they learn and are taught with experience. Just take note of those people who assert themselves positively in the community & consider your options. I know how difficult it can be but sometimes you have to set your pride aside, it also means less of a huge work load on you guys when you have work more evenly dispersed with a larger staff.


Mariah said:


> I think permanent bans need to start happening.


Depends on the severity of what the persons done. Permabans are often considered too harsh & usually they find a way back on the forums through an alt account. If mod team determines this person will likely never change, then that's probably the best option.
Also, idk if this forum gives restrictions but I would consider this an option. It's basically like you're being placed on watch & severely restricted from a lot of stuff based on an accumulation of infractions. For example, you can't participate in events, no icon or signature, and you can't buy from the bell tree shop or gain any bells for your posts. It's like a punishment but it doesn't completely ban the person because maybe they still contribute to the community but they need some work to do in terms of posting, behavior, etc. 
It doesn't lead straight to a ban, but if they catch 3 strikes, they're banned for x amount of months. This was a "reformation" kind of thing that a forum I moderated on used to do. A vast majority of the time, it actually improved the member and they changed. I would imagine vbulliten has this feature but that's up to the admins.



Tina said:


> We all have our own individual reasons and we aren't required to explain. But y'know what? I'll indulge you on mine. I turn invisible on/off depending on how available I actually am - and right now I'm not available as much due to health issues and being only three months away from graduating university. Even if I have the forum open, I'm not actively browsing much of that time. I usually just look for a quick minute or so at the moment.
> 
> People complain if they've messaged you and you don't prioritise their issue and deal with it immediately, as if they expect us to drop everything else for them that second - and some people can be incredibly rude about it. People treat us as if we're paid customer service staff forgetting that this is a volunteer position. We're here in our free time.



I understand where you're coming from, but it still really doesn't help if you need to talk to a mod & they're all unavailable.
I suppose an announcement could be made saying that moderators are busy & even if they appear online they may be doing things behind the scenes and can't answer immediately. I see firsthand how impatient people can be on this forum, but I don't think it'd be rude to just respond at a later time if you legitimately have things to do.
On that note, one thing I hate is when threads get randomly locked without a word, sometimes it's not obvious why it'd even be locked. pls change this lol.

I liked Jake's post & I could see this forum having a specific mod for each section, but then again it would probably restrict a lot of things too. I see that specific forum modding works on a lot of huge forums like this, and it's actually surprising that this place is doing pretty well with such a small amount of staff. It's something to consider I suppose.


----------



## oath2order

can i run for mod


----------



## Acruoxil

Isabella said:


> I understand where you're coming from, but it still really doesn't help if you need to talk to a mod & they're all unavailable.
> I suppose an announcement could be made saying that moderators are busy & even if they appear online they may be doing things behind the scenes and can't answer immediately. I see firsthand how impatient people can be on this forum, but I don't think it'd be rude to just respond at a later time if you legitimately have things to do.
> On that note, one thing I hate is when threads get randomly locked without a word, sometimes it's not obvious why it'd even be locked. pls change this lol.



I agree with this. A thread which contains the current status of the availability of the mods would be very helpful for members, which can be updated by the mod depending on how much of free time they have. As of you guys volunteering for all this, it really is appreciated and we couldn't thank you more for your hard work but since you're doing this you know what you've gotten into. It's a huge forum, and running it requires loads of time and passion. If you don't have the time for it, you don't have the time for it. I'm not saying it's a bad thing whatsoever, of course real life comes first before anything else, but if you don't have enough time for it you definitely do need more people to distribute work to, so that someone else can get to problems if you can't. That being said, a group PMing system would be great, so that if a mod is unavailable, another mod actually gets the issue and addresses it as soon as possible. The current PMing feature only allows one on one conversations, so if the mod is not available, the issue isn't addressed until they can. Hence the delay and the inconvenience to the user.

In my opinion it's all about refining the posting experience. If you guys don't see anyone as a potential moderator on here, it's a good idea to open up applications, something you guys have already considered for the future. You might just be surprised.


----------



## cIementine

I don't understand why mods are responsible for the destructive spam threads people keep creating; their responsibility is to delete them once reported, and hope people learn from it. they really can't stop people from making them. we could have a million mods, but people would still create spam threads.


----------



## piichinu

pumpkins said:


> I don't understand why mods are responsible for the destructive spam threads people keep creating; their responsibility is to delete them once reported, and hope people learn from it. they really can't stop people from making them. we could have a million mods, but people would still create spam threads.



Reading is good for you, sweatie.


----------



## Isabella

pumpkins said:


> I don't understand why mods are responsible for the destructive spam threads people keep creating; their responsibility is to delete them once reported, and hope people learn from it. they really can't stop people from making them. we could have a million mods, but people would still create spam threads.



It's not. but isn't there rules against spamming?
the point is guidelines for forums are there for a reason & if people don't follow it and do it constantly they should be banned etc.
Enforcing guidelines is up to the people who run this place.


----------



## oath2order

pumpkins said:


> I don't understand why mods are responsible for the destructive spam threads people keep creating; their responsibility is to delete them once reported, and hope people learn from it. they really can't stop people from making them. we could have a million mods, but people would still create spam threads.



I mean, you're right, but the circlejerk of "the mods don't do anything" is a little strong rn


----------



## Kittyinpink87

Isabella said:


> It's not. but isn't there rules against spamming?
> the point is guidelines for forums are there for a reason & if people don't follow it and do it constantly they should be banned etc.
> Enforcing guidelines is up to the people who run this place.



i think the problem with that , is a lot of threads don't really start out as spam.


----------



## teto

Kittyinpink87 said:


> i think the problem with that , is a lot of threads don't really start out as spam.



most threads either start as jokes and turn into spam or are just posts that become plain spam
any spam ones i've posted have been in the basement (and i got banned for one of those? for some reason?)

but either way i propose spongebob should be the new mod


----------



## Chris

Isabella said:


> I understand where you're coming from, but it still really doesn't help if you need to talk to a mod & they're all unavailable. I suppose an announcement could be made saying that moderators are busy & even if they appear online they may be doing things behind the scenes and can't answer immediately. <snip>





Ares said:


> I agree with this. A thread which contains the current status of the availability of the mods would be very helpful for members, which can be updated by the mod depending on how much of free time they have. As of you guys volunteering for all this, it really is appreciated and we couldn't thank you more for your hard work but since you're doing this you know what you've gotten into. <snip>



Once again, we're not paid employees. There is no reason for such formality. Just like regular members, our activity goes up and down on a day-to-day basis. It's not like we plan it. We don't work in 'shifts' or have designated time off. We're online when we feel like being online and offline when we don't feel like being online, just like you all are. It's spontaneous, but most if not all of us *do* log into TBT on a daily basis regardless of whether we can only manage 5 minutes or 15 hours that day. If a mod is purposely taking time away (e.g. on vacation with limited interest access) we usually put it in our signatures or user titles. That's the only time it is really necessary for us to broadcast our activity levels to anyone. 

For the record, despite complaints we're actually better now than ever in keeping on top of reports. Last summer I would log in each day to 25-50 reports as I was the only mod actively doing them before the August 2015 intake. That could take hours to go through depending on the complexity of each individual report. Now when I log in I never see more than 4-5, but most days it's zero and I only have to deal with new ones that come in while I'm actively online. So we're on top of the work as long as the members stay on top of reporting. If there are a couple of hours where there is no mod online it's really not as big a deal as people are making it out to be. There isn't really a way to guarantee 24/7 moderation and honestly it's not even necessary. It's an Animal Crossing forum not Buckingham Palace.  

On that note: use reports. Post in Bell Tree HQ. We actually discourage people PM'ing us. It is much more likely that your problem will be dealt with faster by either of those two methods than if you're to PM one us individually.


----------



## Bowie

Tina said:


> It's an Animal Crossing forum not Buckingham Palace.



This perfectly sums up how I feel.


----------



## Red Cat

Tina said:


> Once again, we're not paid employees. There is no reason for such formality. Just like regular members, our activity goes up and down on a day-to-day basis. It's not like we plan it. We don't work in 'shifts' or have designated time off. We're online when we feel like being online and offline when we don't feel like being online, just like you all are. It's spontaneous, but most if not all of us *do* log into TBT on a daily basis regardless of whether we can only manage 5 minutes or 15 hours that day. If a mod is purposely taking time away (e.g. on vacation with limited interest access) we usually put it in our signatures or user titles. That's the only time it is really necessary for us to broadcast our activity levels to anyone.


So you're a human being with an actual real world life? No wonder you're such a terrible mod. If you'd just focus on being automod #10232 instead of doing stupid stuff like eating and sleeping, then people wouldn't complain so much.


----------



## Chris

Red Cat said:


> So you're a human being with an actual real world life? No wonder you're such a terrible mod. If you'd just focus on being automod #10232 instead of doing stupid stuff like eating and sleeping, then people wouldn't complain so much.



I apologise for being human. I will resign at once.


----------



## Isabella

Tina said:


> *Once again, we're not paid employees. There is no reason for such formality.* Just like regular members, our activity goes up and down on a day-to-day basis. It's not like we plan it. *We don't work in 'shifts' or have designated time off.* *We're online when we feel like being online and offline when we don't feel like being online, just like you all are. *It's spontaneous, but most if not all of us *do* log into TBT on a daily basis regardless of whether we can only manage 5 minutes or 15 hours that day. If a mod is purposely taking time away (e.g. on vacation with limited interest access) we usually put it in our signatures or user titles. That's the only time it is really necessary for us to broadcast our activity levels to anyone.
> 
> For the record, despite complaints we're actually better now than ever in keeping on top of reports. Last summer I would log in each day to 25-50 reports as I was the only mod actively doing them before the August 2015 intake. That could take hours to go through depending on the complexity of each individual report. Now when I log in I never see more than 4-5, but most days it's zero and I only have to deal with new ones that come in while I'm actively online. So we're on top of the work as long as the members stay on top of reporting. If there are a couple of hours where there is no mod online it's really not as big a deal as people are making it out to be. There isn't really a way to guarantee 24/7 moderation and honestly it's not even necessary. It's an Animal Crossing forum not Buckingham Palace.
> 
> On that note: use reports. Post in Bell Tree HQ. We actually discourage people PM'ing us. It is much more likely that your problem will be dealt with faster by either of those two methods than if you're to PM one us individually.



And this is the kind of mentality that tends to destroy forums & the way they run, I've seen it happen in like 2 different forums. 
Everyone is aware that this is volunteer work but the point is that it helps users both new and old be able to have somebody to go to if they *really* need help. Nobody is asking you to be on 24/7, it's not possible~ 
And mods shouldn't be opposed to helping out by responding to pm's lol. 
Besides, I don't think there will really be an actual emergency on a forum that requires a prompt response besides maybe an attack of spam bots or something. That's why I suggested having an announcement to clear things up because it seems like newer or younger users don't understand the concept that they won't receive an immediate response.


----------



## oath2order

Isabella said:


> And this is the kind of mentality that tends to destroy forums & the way they run, I've seen it happen in like 2 different forums.
> Everyone is aware that this is volunteer work but the point is that it helps users both new and old be able to have somebody to go to if they *really* need help. Nobody is asking you to be on 24/7, it's not possible~
> And mods shouldn't be opposed to helping out by responding to pm's lol.
> Besides, I don't think there will really be an actual emergency on a forum that requires a prompt response besides maybe an attack of spam bots or something. That's why I suggested having an announcement to clear things up because it seems like newer or younger users don't understand the concept that they won't receive an immediate response.



That's the mentality the mods have had for the three years I've been here, and likely the same mentality they've had in the past before then.

Given that it's been around 11 years at this point if I'm not mistaken, somehow, just somehow, I don't entirely think that their mentality is going to destroy the forum lmao


----------



## Red Cat

Tina said:


> I apologise for being human. I will resign at once.



I'm glad you finally see things my way. This is an Animal Crossing forum, so if you want to be a mod, you have to work slave hours like Timmy and Tommy Nook and Reese. Or better yet, be like Blathers and just be standing in the same spot your entire life sleeping during the day ready to be of service when someone wakes you up.

Edit: Isabelle is the best though, she is always on the job every hour of every single day and never sleeps. Also Kappn's entire family. If I want to go to the island at 3:00 A.M. they are there for me, even the little kid who rips me off. So I don't think it's unreasonable to ask mods not to have a life.


----------



## Isabella

oath2order said:


> That's the mentality the mods have had for the three years I've been here, and likely the same mentality they've had in the past before then.
> 
> Given that it's been around 11 years at this point if I'm not mistaken, somehow, just somehow, I don't entirely think that their mentality is going to destroy the forum lmao



Idk I just thought I'd put it out there bc it seems like multiple people on this thread are saying they don't get responses and things are slow, invisibility doesn't help, etc.

I wouldn't think it would happen but it's just not the best way to think of a mod job thing when you're helping run an entire forum & have to keep everything in check you know?


----------



## tae

i've never been on a big forum where the mods purposefully decide to appear invisible. 

i think that's a really dumb thing to do. i mean, im sure you guys dislike a lot of the constant vm's or pm's but wouldn't it be a hell of a lot better to have names shown of online moderators / admins so people can specifically contact someone who is actually online rather than taking a shot in the dark at mods who would rather appear offline instead?

whats the point of being a mod if you're going to be invisible 100% of the time.


----------



## Chris

Isabella said:


> And this is the kind of mentality that tends to destroy forums & the way they run, I've seen it happen in like 2 different forums.



I've seen it too, and it's not the mentality itself but rather the staff on said boards becoming lazy and falling inactive. All seven of us are active on a (near daily if not) daily basis and keep up with reports now better than ever.

 As long as concerns are in reports or the Bell Tree HQ we can deal with them ASAP. PMs limit our knowledge as a group and as a general rule tend to take longer to be addressed due to only one person having knowledge of that persons need for help.   



Red Cat said:


> I'm glad you finally see things my way. This is an Animal Crossing forum, so if you want to be a mod, you have to work slave hours like Timmy and Tommy Nook and Reese. Or better yet, be like Blathers and just be standing in the same spot your entire life sleeping during the day ready to be of service when someone wakes you up.
> 
> Edit: Isabelle is the best though, she is always on the job every hour of every single day and never sleeps.



Unless Jeremy starts paying me then I demand five minute breaks on days that Crazy Redd is in town. For totally legal activities, of course.


----------



## Alienfish

taesaek said:


> i've never been on a big forum where the mods purposefully decide to appear invisible.
> 
> i think that's a really dumb thing to do. i mean, im sure you guys dislike a lot of the constant vm's or pm's but wouldn't it be a hell of a lot better to have names shown of online moderators / admins so people can specifically contact someone who is actually online rather than taking a shot in the dark at mods who would rather appear offline instead?



I think they stated the reason why they are invisible most of the time. Also sometimes you can tell if they are on if they reply to stuff. 

Also to everyone who complains that they appear way less than they "should" try doing a real volunteer job.. regardless if it's on an internet site or IRL and try seeing how easy it is to have time for everything.

I/you can probably have opinions on why they give infractions or think this or that person mini mods or not but that's a bit off topic.


----------



## tae

Moko said:


> I think they stated the reason why they are invisible most of the time. Also sometimes you can tell if they are on if they reply to stuff.




i think the fastest mod i've ever encountered when it came to addressing and issue was oblivia. she's usually the only mod i ever go to now because she's always quick to reply and her follow up's are always 100% and i believe she doesn't appear offline so i /know/ she's actually able to help out when i need it.


----------



## piichinu

I'm right.


----------



## Nightmares

Red Cat said:


> I agree that TBT should have a 4/25 rule. If your post is more than 4 paragraphs long and takes 25 minutes to read, then you should receive an infraction.



 
Yeah no thanks


----------



## teto

Nightmares said:


> Yeah no thanks



You're just a non-believer


----------



## SoftFairie

Why does this thread exist tbh


----------



## Llust

> I agree that TBT should have a 4/25 rule. If your post is more than 4 paragraphs long and takes 25 minutes to read, then you should receive an infraction.



i probably missed something, but whats the purpose of the 4/25 rule? anyone who does that probably just wants to get in depth about the subject. spoilers can help with that too, it's not like anyone is required to read that post


----------



## Shimmer

Moko said:


> I think they stated the reason why they are invisible most of the time. Also sometimes you can tell if they are on if they reply to stuff.
> 
> Also to everyone who complains that they appear way less than they "should" try doing a real volunteer job.. regardless if it's on an internet site or IRL and try seeing how easy it is to have time for everything.
> 
> I/you can probably have opinions on why they give infractions or think this or that person mini mods or not but that's a bit off topic.



I was a mod on an old My Little Pony forum back in 2012 that was around this forum's size so I know exactly how busy you can get. After constant activity, I had to quit two years later because I was too busy to have time for it anymore. I wasn't getting paid and real life was hitting me hard because I was leaving for college. The forum then hired someone who DID have the time to moderate.  

If life is really too busy for someone to moderate for free in their spare time then they should pass the torch to someone who does have the time. This goes for all things in life, really.


----------



## Red Cat

stardusk said:


> i probably missed something, but whats the purpose of the 4/25 rule? anyone who does that probably just wants to get in depth about the subject. spoilers can help with that too, it's not like anyone is required to read that post



It was a joke.  Jake wrote a frickin novel in the post.


----------



## Nightmares

Delishush said:


> You're just a non-believer



Cricricri 
I'm so ashamed


----------



## Llust

Red Cat said:


> It was a joke.  Jake wrote a frickin novel in the post.



ah, i see. sorry, i couldnt find the context of that post x'D


----------



## lucitine

Is there a list of mods somewhere? I had a problem the other day and I couldn't find any mods to help ._.


----------



## piichinu

lucitine said:


> Is there a list of mods somewhere? I had a problem the other day and I couldn't find any mods to help ._.



http://www.belltreeforums.com/showgroups.php

quick links > forum leaders


----------



## lucitine

carfax alt said:


> http://www.belltreeforums.com/showgroups.php
> 
> quick links > forum leaders



Oh thanks!


----------



## Trent the Paladin

stardusk said:


> i probably missed something, but whats the purpose of the 4/25 rule? anyone who does that probably just wants to get in depth about the subject. spoilers can help with that too, it's not like anyone is required to read that post



4/25 seems like something to combat spam posts, IE "Me too" "This" or other notoriously dumb posts. 4 words, 25 doesn't seem like a very high goal of post quality.


----------



## Damniel

I think if you just don't make a spam thread worse, it will just collapse on itself when the spammers get bored. Because they usually get their satisfaction out of others feeding them. 

I also don't see many people who would make a good mod(And by that i mean like 2 people are capable of doing it). Even for the capable members, it also comes down to if they want/can do it. Being a mod basically means you pick up a side job and overall lose the ability to just casually be here. 

I don't think perma-bans need to be a thing, but for the certain members who get banned regularly, longer bans should be made. But the ones banned a lot are really only spammers and not harassers, so it's not too bad when they come back.


----------



## Aali

I honestly think mods shouldn't be invisible, you're here to help people with stuff and it you're invisible how do they know who's available and who's busy with real life stuff?


----------



## N e s s

Honestly, how about if someone makes an alt account you just ban them longer? I know they already do that, but IP bans should be a thing if they keep making alts.


----------



## Chris

Aali said:


> I honestly think mods shouldn't be invisible, you're here to help people with stuff and it you're invisible how do they know who's available *and who's busy with real life stuff*?



And this is exactly why I'm on invisible.  I'm still here everyday, and I'll respond to anything sent to me and I still do other mod work, but I can't promise to be able to deal with things on demand right now. Its easier to be invisible than give people the impression that "oh she's online she'll respond quickly".


----------



## Beardo

Mariah said:


> I think permanent bans need to start happening.



I've been thinking this for a while


----------



## oath2order

Aali said:


> I honestly think mods shouldn't be invisible, you're here to help people with stuff and it you're invisible how do they know who's available and who's busy with real life stuff?



Just because a mod is online does not mean they're going to instantly respond.


----------



## Aali

oath2order said:


> Just because a mod is online does not mean they're going to instantly respond.



Still, if it feels like there are never any mods on because they are all invisible. I'm just saying it'd be helpful if mods were not invisible.


----------



## Nightmares

Why would it be more helpful though?


----------



## piichinu

N e s s said:


> Honestly, how about if someone makes an alt account you just ban them longer? I know they already do that, but IP bans should be a thing if they keep making alts.



haha IP ban that's rich

- - - Post Merge - - -



Call me Daniel said:


> I think if you just don't make a spam thread worse, it will just collapse on itself when the spammers get bored. Because they usually get their satisfaction out of others feeding them.



this actually isn't true


----------



## Red Cat

carfax alt said:


> this actually isn't true


It's possible that some spammers might really enjoy piling crap on top of each other, but I think most spammers like to annoy other people and if people don't post on those threads, they don't get a rise out of it. There are places on the internet where you can say whatever the heck you want without consequence, so spammers would not go through the trouble of creating accounts on a website with moderation and then go through the effort to evade that moderation if their goal was not to p*** people off.


----------



## glow

rule #1 dnt feed trolls

but srsly the best thing to do is report then just post on like 10 other threads to bury that s***


----------



## Rasha

mods aren't machines they are people, some members should stop being too demanding.
if you have a problem with a certain thread then report/contact the mods and they'll always respond sooner or later, actions don't necessary need to be made instantly.


----------



## RRJay

m3ow_ said:


> *rule #1 dnt feed trolls*
> 
> but srsly the best thing to do is report then just post on like 10 other threads to bury that s***


this is seriously all you guys need to do


----------



## Dorian

Being moderators is a difficult job with many responsibilites and zero perks. I mod for two sites and it is exhausting. My inbox is full all the time. One of the sites has over 2000 members and there are five mods, including myself, three in Great Britain and two here in the States. That means someone is usually always online. Make no mistake, it is a full time job. Manys the time I appear offline just so I can get some work done slogging through pm's and the like. It's difficult.


----------



## Belle of Pripyat

Dorian said:


> Being moderators is a difficult job with many responsibilites and zero perks. I mod for two sites and it is exhausting. My inbox is full all the time. One of the sites has over 2000 members and there are five mods, including myself, three in Great Britain and two here in the States. That means someone is usually always online. Make no mistake, it is a full time job. Manys the time I appear offline just so I can get some work done slogging through pm's and the like. It's difficult.



In the early '00s, I was a mod at a coupons/freebies forum. There were probably less than 50 active posters, so it was a very easy job. I mostly just moved posts around and edited links. I got a $200 gift certificate for Christmas one year as a reward for my help. The amount of work and the perks really just depend on the forum. I still believe that there aren't enough mods for a site this large.


----------



## Zodiac Crossing

I think the mods do the best they can.  They do this as a "volunteer" not getting payed.  They have other things to do thenrespond to 2000 pms all at once.


----------



## N e s s

carfax alt said:


> haha IP ban that's rich



Well its true. If you do something ban worthy, then you should be accountable for it.


----------



## Aali

I honestly think we need more mods


----------



## Nightmares

Seeing as the mods are volunteers, they really shouldn't be getting any of this ****. Yeah, if they actually got paid, it'd be understandable


----------



## Aali

Nightmares said:


> Seeing as the mods are volunteers, they really shouldn't be getting any of this ****. Yeah, if they actually got paid, it'd be understandable


I'm not hating on the mods I just feel like we need more for a site of this size


----------



## tae

N e s s said:


> Well its true. If you do something ban worthy, then you should be accountable for it.



do you know what a proxy is?
it'll take all of .002 seconds to evade an ip ban.


----------



## Alienfish

taesaek said:


> do you know what a proxy is?
> it'll take all of .002 seconds to evade an ip ban.



This, also you can mess with IP addresses and username if you're a bit smart


----------



## windwake-me-up-inside

Honestly the best course of action is let the mods delete them but ignore that they exist. Continue the thread without mentioning them. They will get bored of not being paid attention to and move the heck on.


----------



## N e s s

taesaek said:


> do you know what a proxy is?
> it'll take all of .002 seconds to evade an ip ban.



oh

hm,

guess IP bans won't work then


----------



## oath2order

taesaek said:


> do you know what a proxy is?
> it'll take all of .002 seconds to evade an ip ban.



how pathetic is someone that they'd do that though


----------



## Red Cat

oath2order said:


> how pathetic is someone that they'd do that though



Spammers are already pathetic creatures. They probably don't care about wasting more time.


----------



## Nightmares

taesaek said:


> do you know what a proxy is?
> it'll take all of .002 seconds to evade an ip ban.



Welp but a load of people like me wouldn't even know how to do that


----------



## oath2order

Nightmares said:


> Welp but a load of people like me wouldn't even know how to do that



Especially on this site


----------



## v0x

Mini-mod's assemble


----------



## piichinu

Nightmares said:


> Seeing as the mods are volunteers, they really shouldn't be getting any of this ****. Yeah, if they actually got paid, it'd be understandable



what **** i don't see any ****


----------



## Llust

edit//ignore this


----------



## Trent the Paladin

What issues exactly if you don't mind sharing? Most "issues" can be solved by other users outside of warns, ratings, and things that typically ought to be reported to begin with.


----------



## Llust

Tom said:


> What issues exactly if you don't mind sharing? Most "issues" can be solved by other users outside of warns, ratings, and things that typically ought to be reported to begin with.



none of them involved other members of tbt. they were just things involving questions about collectibles, problems with my settings, and problems with the site glitching for me consistently. i asked other tbt members for help, but they couldnt really do anything and i contacted different mods. never got a response back and didnt bother sending another message. the problem went away on its own after a couple of days


----------



## Hopeless Opus

I applaud the mods and admins for their hard work considering how many people are active on this forum. I've seen far less active forums (and I mean it's a rarity for even three threads to get created a day) with at least fifteen staff members. I don't know how these guys pull it off but it's truly admirable.

Anyways, the easiest solution is to just report. The staff can't be a hunt on spam posts all the time, they need help. It's why there is a report button, so that they can easily be alerted and handle it at a faster rate.


----------



## Cory

i guess mods aren't allowed to have lives anymore. im sure they have better things to do than be on this site all day


----------



## Jacob

i get that the mods have lives and can't be online 24/7 and everything, but thats not the point of this thread.
The op just stated that we are in need of more mods, due to spam, alts, etc and it has little to due with the current mods 

the point of moderators is to make sure the site is under control, and if there arent enough mods to work the clock, spam threads run their course and people get frustrated with the site.
the best solution is to hire more mods, not make the current mods be online more

(Justin gave us a good response already so maybe the thread should be closed anyway)


----------



## Alienfish

Jacob said:


> i get that the mods have lives and can't be online 24/7 and everything, but thats not the point of this thread.
> The op just stated that we are in need of more mods, due to spam, alts, etc and it has little to due with the current mods
> 
> the point of moderators is to make sure the site is under control, and if there arent enough mods to work the clock, spam threads run their course and people get frustrated with the site.
> the best solution is to hire more mods, not make the current mods be online more
> 
> (Justin gave us a good response already so maybe the thread should be closed anyway)



Eh, well quantity doesn't really mean quality and faster job done per se... Not that people ever will stop making alt or spam altogether I think they've been pretty fast to it lately, be it because of this or not.

Also well you can always point out that they should focus on those things rather than giving infractions for someone who just post something one-time in basement and not spamming otherwise.


----------



## Trent the Paladin

Moko said:


> Eh, well quantity doesn't really mean quality and faster job done per se... Not that people ever will stop making alt or spam altogether I think they've been pretty fast to it lately, be it because of this or not.
> 
> Also well you can always point out that they should focus on those things rather than giving infractions for someone who just post something one-time in basement and not spamming otherwise.



Unless Justin and Jeremy and the other mods don't train newbies, the quantity =/= quality argument doesn't really apply here. A few more mods would help lessen the workload on the current staff and people wouldn't ***** as much "about staff y u no help".  

@stardusk: Most of those issues sound like something users could probably help with, but I don't know the specifics and you say users couldn't help to begin with so idk. But there's a lot of pointless things mods get PMs about that could be easily solved by helpful users or a search.


----------



## Jake

Tom said:


> Unless Justin and Jeremy and the other mods don't train newbies, the quantity =/= quality argument doesn't really apply here. A few more mods would help lessen the workload on the current staff and people wouldn't ***** as much "about staff y u no help".


Remember when Miranda ran mini mod boot camp. Good times.


----------



## Alienfish

Tom said:


> Unless Justin and Jeremy and the other mods don't train newbies, the quantity =/= quality argument doesn't really apply here. A few more mods would help lessen the workload on the current staff and people wouldn't ***** as much "about staff y u no help".
> 
> @stardusk: Most of those issues sound like something users could probably help with, but I don't know the specifics and you say users couldn't help to begin with so idk. But there's a lot of pointless things mods get PMs about that could be easily solved by helpful users or a search.



That was exactly what I meant.. lol more mods doesn't have to make it better unless they get proper instructions and training..


----------



## Aali

Hopefully they will open mod applications soon. They did back when I joined but I was just a newbie so I didn't apply.


----------



## Red Cat

Moko said:


> That was exactly what I meant.. lol more mods doesn't have to make it better unless they get proper instructions and training..



Pssh. What do mods need training for? You just delete every post you don't agree with and ban anyone who p***es you off, right? Sounds pretty easy to me.


----------



## Aali

Me as a mod

Me: Moe is my favorite cat
Person: Rosie is my favorite cat :3
Me: NOPE BANNED 

I'm joking, of course


----------



## Trent the Paladin

Jake. said:


> Remember when Miranda ran mini mod boot camp. Good times.


No because I probably didn't pay a whole lot of attention back then


----------



## Jake

Tom said:


> No because I probably didn't pay a whole lot of attention back then



Wow you missed the yellow username and probably the most useless modding system ever


----------



## oath2order

Moko said:


> rather than giving infractions for someone who just post something one-time in basement and not spamming otherwise.



Someone got an infraction for the basement I see



Moko said:


> That was exactly what I meant.. lol more mods doesn't have to make it better unless they get proper instructions and training..



They do.


----------



## Aali

How do you even check infractions?


----------



## Hopeless Opus

Red Cat said:


> Pssh. What do mods need training for? You just delete every post you don't agree with and ban anyone who p***es you off, right? Sounds pretty easy to me.



That's actually not how it works at all. I was an admin of another forum and it was way harder than you think it is. It's not all fun and games at all, it's very serious. The mods have an important job to maintain just like everybody else. With such an active forum as this, I am pretty sure we are not seeing everything that they are doing since it's so huge. They are most likely doing lots of things that are benefiting the forum, but we don't see it because, well, we're not staff, and it's also too active to notice a certain thread's disappearance. Training mods are very important because they need to learn how to operate around the forum. It's not just one click and boom you're done, it's quite a few steps, so training is necessary.



Aali said:


> How do you even check infractions?



There is a certain area under a user's profile where you can put all the infractions. That's how we used to do it at the forum I worked at anyways, maybe the staff here have a different way.


----------



## Red Cat

Hopeless Opus said:


> That's actually not how it works at all. I was an admin of another forum and it was way harder than you think it is. It's not all fun and games at all, it's very serious. The mods have an important job to maintain just like everybody else. With such an active forum as this, I am pretty sure we are not seeing everything that they are doing since it's so huge. They are most likely doing lots of things that are benefiting the forum, but we don't see it because, well, we're not staff, and it's also too active to notice a certain thread's disappearance. Training mods are very important because they need to learn how to operate around the forum. It's not just one click and boom you're done, it's quite a few steps, so training is necessary.


It really shouldn't be that serious because this isn't a real serious forum, the mods are not payed to do this so it's not like they should be expected to meet some extremely high standard, and no one is paying to use this site so if people hate the mods, they can just take a hike. For a forum like this, if a mod sees an idiot posting, it absolutely should be click, boom, done. It doesn't need to be a really tough job.


----------



## Trent the Paladin

Red Cat said:


> It really shouldn't be that serious because this isn't a real serious forum, the mods are not payed to do this so it's not like they should be expected to meet some extremely high standard, and no one is paying to use this site so if people hate the mods, they can just take a hike. For a forum like this, if a mod sees an idiot posting, it absolutely should be click, boom, done. It doesn't need to be a really tough job.



This is absolutely the dumbest post I've seen in this thread. You're trying to be funny right? Being on the staff for anything is serious. Yeah they can have fun, but you're expected to help a lot of ungrateful users with typically no thank you in return. You're expected to clean up ****posts, porn threads, ban bots, discipline bad apples, be a referee because he said she said, and ensure this is a safe environment for all ages given the forum's theme. It's not just click select ban justin and anyone who thinks that is a bloomin idjit.


----------



## Hopeless Opus

Red Cat said:


> It really shouldn't be that serious because this isn't a real serious forum, the mods are not payed to do this so it's not like they should be expected to meet some extremely high standard, and no one is paying to use this site so if people hate the mods, they can just take a hike. For a forum like this, if a mod sees an idiot posting, it absolutely should be click, boom, done. It doesn't need to be a really tough job.



Well my question is, where have you seen a forum where the mods are actually paid? Not trying to be rude or anything, cause I've actually never seen a forum like that before. Also, they can't just autoban people for saying something stupid. There are actually rules the forum itself has to follow or the staff can get in trouble for it.


----------



## N e s s

Hopeless Opus said:


> Well my question is, where have you seen a forum where the mods are actually paid? Not trying to be rude or anything, cause I've actually never seen a forum like that before. Also, they can't just autoban people for saying something stupid. There are actually rules the forum itself has to follow or the staff can get in trouble for it.



Reddit?

- - - Post Merge - - -

wait no nevermind they aren't paid


----------



## Aali

I don't think this site makes nearly enough to pay mods considering they recently turned on ads for members, plus someone people (myself included) use adblock so they don't make money from the people with adblockers


----------



## N e s s

Aali said:


> I don't think this site makes nearly enough to pay mods considering they recently turned on ads for members, plus someone people (myself included) use adblock so they don't make money from the people with adblockers



ooh you use adblock? I have the Doge adblocker on rn, it turns ads into doge memes


----------



## Aali

N e s s said:


> ooh you use adblock? I have the Doge adblocker on rn, it turns ads into doge memes



Can't tell if you're serious or not


----------



## N e s s

Aali said:


> Can't tell if you're serious or not



yes i am srs, there is a doge adblocker


----------



## Red Cat

Tom said:


> This is absolutely the dumbest post I've seen in this thread. You're trying to be funny right? Being on the staff for anything is serious. Yeah they can have fun, but you're expected to help a lot of ungrateful users with typically no thank you in return. You're expected to clean up ****posts, porn threads, ban bots, discipline bad apples, be a referee because he said she said, and ensure this is a safe environment for all ages given the forum's theme. It's not just click select ban justin and anyone who thinks that is a bloomin idjit.



Most people on this site can identify spam and porn threads. These are very obvious. Being a referee and trying to judge whether a post is offensive or not is a different matter. TBT mods are not professionals. They just do it on a volunteer basis. So you can't expect them to have perfect judgement.

For a moment imagine two extremes. On one hand, TBT could have few moderators like is has now and those moderators only have the power to delete posts and ban for spam, graphic posts, and promotion of illegal activities. However, they do not have the power to delete or discipline for any name-calling or abusive posts. This would maximize freedom of speech, but would result in a lot of people getting offended.

Now imagine on the other end, any user could delete any post for any reason. All of the spam, graphic, abusive, and offensive posts would disappear very quickly, but so would many legitimate posts. All of the s*** posts would be gone quickly, but people would complain about how their freedom of speech is being restricted (not that it really applies here).

Obviously both extremes are stupid, but you have to draw the line somewhere. More mods = less bad posts and less freedom of speech. Less mods = more bad posts and more freedom of speech. It's a trade-off and different people have different opinions, so there will never be a perfect balance. I used to be on a site with heavy moderation and some of the mods were on a power trip and would have a quick trigger finger when it came to infracting and banning people. I stopped visiting that site for that reason. I like the laid-back nature of this forum and I don't want there to be more mods just for the sake of having more, because that's how you get bad mods.



Hopeless Opus said:


> There are actually rules the forum itself has to follow or the staff can get in trouble for it.


They get in trouble how? They lose their unpaid volunteer position with absolutely no incentives? And who makes that decision? Another unpaid staff member? And who would replace a bad moderator? There are not a ton of qualified people lining up to do this. Honestly we shouldn't expect to get more from the mods than what we pay for (they are actually better than that thank god). A mod has to A) be mature and have good judgement and B) be able to make the time commitment to a volunteer position. Usually people who have A don't have B and people who have B don't have A. So if you want more mods, then understand that you'll have to compromise on A and just hope that the inmates aren't running the asylum.

Edit:

I guess the main takeaway from this thread is that the moderators here are hesitant to add more of them because this thread itself has clearly shown that not very many people on this site are capable of being effective moderators including me. They can try to train people, but there is only so much they can do to polish a turd (metaphorically speaking).


----------



## lucitine

It wouldn't hurt to open applications? You don't _have_ to 'hire' someone, but if you happen to find someone suitable, then theres that option to add a new mod.


----------



## Trent the Paladin

You truly are a village idiot and a real gem to this forum Red Cat. Not many members could make the same amount of logic stretches as you did. 

MUH FREEDOMS = Less Mods and Anarchy

1984 = More Mods and Order

WOW 10/10 logic. The forum you came from most likely had bad staff or you're heavily exaggerating. 

Most of the mods have training and are more than likely shadowed by veteran mod. They follow the rules and enforce them, more mods doesn't mean less freedoms.


----------



## LambdaDelta

freedom of speech doesn't mean the ability to say anything with no consequences

- - - Post Merge - - -

also, unless its something illegal or inappropriate for young children, I've never really seen staff delete posts anyways

so the argument is pretty invalid just because of that. you can still say whatever, but have to be held accountable for it too


----------



## oath2order

Tom said:


> You truly are a village idiot and a real gem to this forum Red Cat. Not many members could make the same amount of logic stretches as you did.
> 
> MUH FREEDOMS = Less Mods and Anarchy
> 
> 1984 = More Mods and Order
> 
> WOW 10/10 logic. The forum you came from most likely had bad staff or you're heavily exaggerating.
> 
> Most of the mods have training and are more than likely shadowed by veteran mod. They follow the rules and enforce them, more mods doesn't mean less freedoms.



there is so much i could say tbh



LambdaDelta said:


> freedom of speech doesn't mean the ability to say anything with no consequences
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> also, unless its something illegal or inappropriate for young children, I've never really seen staff delete posts anyways
> 
> so the argument is pretty invalid just because of that. you can still say whatever, but have to be held accountable for it too




they delete my spam all the time


----------



## teto

...is this thread still going?
Half of what people are saying has been said on here before.
I get it, debates are good, but you're stretching it a little


----------



## Damniel

You guys could just not spam and that would help


----------



## Shimmer

The main issue I see is that whenever there is a troll/stupid/pointless thread, instead of saying nothing and just reporting it, people choose to post, whether it be a sad attempt at being funny or to tell the person off. That's... not a member's job, it's a mod's. If more people used the report button, it would be easier to lose the spammy/attention seeking threads. Nothing is more satisfying than seeing people replying back to your crappy thread so no wonder people post spammy threads. They know they'll get a reaction out of at least seven members.


----------



## PeeBraiin

LambdaDelta said:


> freedom of speech doesn't mean the ability to say anything with no consequences
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> also, unless its something illegal or inappropriate for young children, I've never really seen staff delete posts anyways
> 
> so the argument is pretty invalid just because of that. you can still say whatever, but have to be held accountable for it too



This
Your freedom of speech is "valid" until it interferes with other's freedom. It's a very complex process that I'm not gonna bother explaining but basically it makes your point invalid


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## Acruoxil

Shimmer said:


> The main issue I see is that whenever there is a troll/stupid/pointless thread, instead of saying nothing and just reporting it, people choose to post, whether it be a sad attempt at being funny or to tell the person off. That's... not a member's job, it's a mod's. If more people used the report button, it would be easier to lose the spammy/attention seeking threads. Nothing is more satisfying than seeing people replying back to your crappy thread so no wonder people post spammy threads. They know they'll get a reaction out of at least seven members.


You should know that not all of us do that. We tend to sigh, report the thread and move on.

Sad to see a vast majority of people don't do the same. Instead they actually enjoy these threads and add more fuel to the fire.


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## Shimmer

Ares said:


> You should know that not all of us do that. We tend to sigh, report the thread and move on.
> 
> Sad to see a vast majority of people don't do the same. Instead they actually enjoy these threads and add more fuel to the fire.



Of course not everyone does it but enough do that it feeds the 'fire.' It gets worse when people tell people to ignore the thread. I get the meaning behind doing that but it actually makes the situation worse.


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## GamingKittenCorp

I honestly don't see much spam on here. I've been reported for spam though..when I wasn't even spamming. -.- I also got a warning for posting a thread that the warning claimed I'd posted already in the last 5 minutes, which I did not. I honestly don't even get all the rules around here. Maybe make it less, more important rules for those of us who can't remember so much and let the community run itself. If it begins collapsing, bring in a few more mods. Try things both ways, potentially make everyone happy and discover the best solution. I agree that some people do need to have say over others but they also need to be smart about it and think about what they're reporting for before reporting someone.


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## Chris

GamingKittenCorp said:


> I honestly don't see much spam on here. I've been reported for spam though..when I wasn't even spamming. -.- I also got a warning for posting a thread that the warning claimed I'd posted already in the last 5 minutes, which I did not.



There are no warnings or infractions on your account. Perfectly clean record.


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## Quill

Well, this thread got fun. I don't really have an opinion on whether or not we need more mods because I don't actually see enough spam here to induce me to care. But maybe I'm just lucky, or it's because of where I post, and other people are having a totally different experience than I am. *shrugs*

Although I did want to say that your constitutionally protected freedom of speech means that you're allowed to criticize the government without worrying that you'll be imprisoned or executed for it. It doesn't mean you get to say whatever you want, and if anything is happening on TBT that infringes on your constitutionally-given "freedom of speech" I'm sure that having a spam post deleted is the least of your worries.


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## Damniel

Quill said:


> Well, this thread got fun. I don't really have an opinion on whether or not we need more mods because I don't actually see enough spam here to induce me to care. But maybe I'm just lucky, or it's because of where I post, and other people are having a totally different experience than I am. *shrugs*
> 
> Although I did want to say that your constitutionally protected freedom of speech means that you're allowed to criticize the government without worrying that you'll be imprisoned or executed for it. It doesn't mean you get to say whatever you want, and if anything is happening on TBT that infringes on your constitutionally-given "freedom of speech" I'm sure that having a spam post deleted is the least of your worries.



This is a forum not North Korea it's not taking away any rights.


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## Quill

Call me Daniel said:


> This is a forum not North Korea it's not taking away any rights.



That was my point.


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## Chris

Quill said:


> Well, this thread got fun. I don't really have an opinion on whether or not we need more mods because I don't actually see enough spam here to induce me to care. But maybe I'm just lucky, or it's because of where I post, and other people are having a totally different experience than I am. *shrugs*



I get you. Mostly because I've only seen two spam threads lately: one I happened to be online to catch and another a regular texted me to inform me. Most of them occur while I'm asleep and another mod will have dealt with it before I wake up. 



Back in August, when we took on three new mods, we already knew we'd start looking for more in early 2016 (I even explicitly pointed this out myself while we were discussing who to invite on to the team last time). But as I've pointed out already, we're doing better than ever (in the year and a half I've been a moderator on here) at keeping up with the work. Just this morning I woke up, looked at TBT, and saw my fellow staff members had dealt with all the reports during the night.

We're not saying that we aren't understaffed for a forum this size - we know we are. But fact is we're staying on top of reports and adding new moderators this second is not the response to the concern this thread arose. More moderators does not guarantee spam threads will be dealt with faster; those new mods will still need to eat, sleep, have jobs, go to college, etc. The 24/7 moderation people seem to expect is not achievable with seven moderators or a team twice nor triple this size. You cannot expect things to be dealt with instantenously, that is just not reasonable.


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## Damniel

Quill said:


> That was my point.



Yeah I'm adding to it.


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## oath2order

Tina said:


> I get you. Mostly because I've only seen two spam threads lately: one I happened to be online to catch and another a regular texted me to inform me. Most of them occur while I'm asleep and another mod will have dealt with it before I wake up.
> 
> 
> 
> Back in August, when we took on three new mods, we already knew we'd start looking for more in early 2016 (I even explicitly pointed this out myself while we were discussing who to invite on to the team last time). But as I've pointed out already, we're doing better than ever (in the year and a half I've been a moderator on here) at keeping up with the work. Just this morning I woke up, looked at TBT, and saw my fellow staff members had dealt with all the reports during the night.
> 
> We're not saying that we aren't understaffed for a forum this size - we know we are. But fact is we're staying on top of reports and adding new moderators this second is not the response to the concern this thread arose. More moderators does not guarantee spam threads will be dealt with faster; those new mods will still need to eat, sleep, have jobs, go to college, etc. The 24/7 moderation people seem to expect is not achievable with seven moderators or a team twice nor triple this size. You cannot expect things to be dealt with instantenously, that is just not reasonable.



so tell me what mod deals with the dank memes


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