# The Death Penalty



## CR33P (Jul 14, 2014)

What are your thoughts on the death penalty? Do you approve of it?


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## Mariah (Jul 14, 2014)

I'd rather let people suffer.


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## mob (Jul 14, 2014)

yes, i approve of it. as long as it's on the same level of the crime the person has done. ie. murder


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## CR33P (Jul 14, 2014)

bot said:


> yes, i approve of it. as long as it's on the same level of the crime the person has done. ie. murder



i agree


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## cannedcommunism (Jul 14, 2014)

No matter how bad a crime was, it's not worth taking that person's life for.


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## CR33P (Jul 14, 2014)

Mariah said:


> I'd rather let people suffer.



they don't really suffer.. in prison they actually have lots of activites.
http://www.doc.wa.gov/family/offenderlife/recreation.asp


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## mob (Jul 14, 2014)

FoxWolf64 said:


> No matter how bad a crime was, it's not worth taking that person's life for.



so if someone killed you, you want them to live and be taken care of in a prison.
nice.


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## Aradai (Jul 14, 2014)

bot said:


> yes, i approve of it. as long as it's on the same level of the crime the person has done. ie. murder



Ditto.


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## Mariah (Jul 14, 2014)

CR33P said:


> they don't really suffer.. in prison they actually have lots of activites.



No, I mean with torture. None of that cushy prison life.


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## CR33P (Jul 14, 2014)

Mariah said:


> No, I mean with torture. None of that cushy prison life.



oh no i'd prefer them to have death instead, well that's what i'm supposed to say.
if their crime was really that bad.. but that would be wrong


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## MistyBlue (Jul 14, 2014)

FoxWolf64 said:


> No matter how bad a crime was, it's not worth taking that person's life for.



agree :3 although I reckon if i'd grown up in a country which had the death penalty, and was used to the concept of it, I would probably have a different opinion.


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## Liquid Ocelot (Jul 14, 2014)

I honestly don't think it's used enough.




Mariah said:


> No, I mean with torture. None of that cushy prison life.



This, too. 

At least, I'd like to see prisoners treated like- y'know, prisoners and not like they're staying overnight at a hotel or something. No television, no internet, no recreational time. People see prison as being rehabilitation too much these days. I just think people ought to be punished for what they've done, and punished severely.


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 14, 2014)

Why are you so full of hatred? Will punishing them severely reverse their crime? Makes no sense.


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## CookingOkasan (Jul 14, 2014)

...


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## LinDUNguin (Jul 14, 2014)

I'm a little hesitant to discuss this sorta thing on TBT but I do not support it mainly from a practical standpoint. The amount of money our tax money is spent on capitol punishment is outrageous. Not only that, but there are many people put to death each year that have been wrongly convicted, and a lot of this information is actually discovered after the fact when it's too late to remedy. _Into the Abyss_ is a great documentary covering this information that I highly recommend watching.


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## Colour Bandit (Jul 14, 2014)

I'm on the fence with this, I can see the 'positives' and the 'negatives' but I can't really make an informed choice.

Though the UK needs to sort out their prison system, too many criminals who have committed severe crimes have been put in open prisons and have literally just walked out whenever they have felt like it- so rapists and murderers have been able to get back out on to the streets too easily...


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## Liquid Ocelot (Jul 14, 2014)

Riiiiptide said:


> Why are you so full of hatred? Will punishing them severely reverse their crime? Makes no sense.



People who are incarcerated- especially those who might be serving life sentences, or those who've committed heinous crimes- need to be punished, not rehabilitated. It's _prison_.

I don't hate people, but when what they've done is disgusting, they shouldn't be given any privileges. It should not be a comfortable, happy existence.


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 14, 2014)

Why do they need to be punished? You still haven't answered that question. Does their suffering better the world somehow?

Punishment should only go as far as to establish a reasonable deterrent. I don't get why you people seem to get a satisfaction out of other people's sufferings. It's a bit disturbing.


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## Bowie (Jul 14, 2014)

No. I'm a believer of rehabilitation.


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## CookingOkasan (Jul 14, 2014)

...


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## Bowie (Jul 14, 2014)

CookingOkasan said:


> rehabilitation is a joke.



Well, you're entitled to your own opinion.


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## Shirohibiki (Jul 14, 2014)

LinDUNguin said:


> I'm a little hesitant to discuss this sorta thing on TBT but I do not support it mainly from a practical standpoint. The amount of money our tax money is spent on capitol punishment is outrageous. Not only that, but there are many people put to death each year that have been wrongly convicted, and a lot of this information is actually discovered after the fact when it's too late to remedy. _Into the Abyss_ is a great documentary covering this information that I highly recommend watching.



hmmm. i didnt take into account the money/incorrect convictions. ): 
i think, that if they were a little bit more careful about convictions, and got the facts straight and were positively sure this person had done something, then yes. but it also depends on the cost. e_e 

like, in theory, yes, to match their crime, but in practice, i can see exactly why itd be difficult.


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## epona (Jul 14, 2014)

yep


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## Waluigi (Jul 14, 2014)

Instead if murdering them, use them to generate some electricity on bikes

that way they are still helping society and making up for their crimes


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## Shirohibiki (Jul 14, 2014)

Kenny Mcormick said:


> Instead if murdering them, use them to generate some electricity on bikes
> 
> that way they are still helping society and making up for their crimes



ho ym god i laughed really hard because all i pictured was a line of people on stationary bikes??? ofmg


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## CookingOkasan (Jul 14, 2014)

...


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 14, 2014)

Wow, the number one internet argument trick ladies and gentlemen! "I've done _______ before, which is completely unverifiable, but take my word on it. It makes me better than you, therefore QED"


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## Swiftstream (Jul 14, 2014)

It costs more to kill somebody than to keep them alive and rehabilitate them.


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## CR33P (Jul 14, 2014)

Swiftstream said:


> It costs more to kill somebody than to keep them alive and rehabilitate them.



no it doesn't.


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## CookingOkasan (Jul 14, 2014)

...


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## mob (Jul 14, 2014)

Swiftstream said:


> It costs more to kill somebody than to keep them alive and rehabilitate them.



In the long run, keeping someone alive is much more spendy.
Not many death sentences happen anyways, here at least.


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## CR33P (Jul 14, 2014)

Kenny Mcormick said:


> Instead if murdering them, use them to generate some electricity on bikes
> 
> that way they are still helping society and making up for their crimes



are you joking


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 14, 2014)

CookingOkasan said:


> Okay, definitely haven't taken multiple high level African American Studies classes and attended lectures from Angela Davis, Maya Angelou (she called me cute ayy), and other prominent speakers...
> 
> 
> besides, I'm not calling anyone out... I'm saying that doing actual research on important topics like this is never a bad thing.



Wow! You must be an expert. Close the thread guys, this guy's opinion is a FACT!


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## Lauren (Jul 14, 2014)

We don't have it here anymore, but I feel we should have it back. Nothing like the electric chair or hanging, but I feel the leathle injection will suffice. I know there are some bad points to it, but I feel criminals who rape and kill and various other crimes and are found to be guilty should die. An eye for an eye and what not. 

Please do not ridicule me for my opinion, I wanted to add my opinion not get into a debate over it, so do not try.


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## Shirohibiki (Jul 14, 2014)

Lauren said:


> We don't have it here anymore, but I feel we should have it back. Nothing like the electric chair or hanging, but I feel the leathle injection will suffice. I know there are some bad points to it, but I feel criminals who rape and kill and various other crimes and are found to be guilty should die. An eye for an eye and what not.
> 
> Please do not ridicule me for my opinion, I wanted to add my opinion not get into a debate over it, so do not try.



only problem is, isn't the injection like super expensive to make? >: thats what ive heard, but i cant confirm it. i dont know if cheaper ways exist, however.


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## Liquid Ocelot (Jul 14, 2014)

Riiiiptide said:


> Why do they need to be punished? You still haven't answered that question. Does their suffering better the world somehow?
> 
> Punishment should only go as far as to establish a reasonable deterrent. I don't get why you people seem to get a satisfaction out of other people's sufferings. It's a bit disturbing.



If you cause suffering, you should be shown what it's like to suffer. And they need to be punished equal to the suffering they've caused. 

As for 'bettering the world', an uncomfortable existence is certainly a more formidable deterrent. People should fear going to prison. It needs to be a place where you do not want to end up, or re-visit. I'm not saying 'beat all these people to death', but it shouldn't be fun, or a cake walk, either. 



Riiiiptide said:


> Wow, the number one internet argument trick ladies and gentlemen! "I've done _______ before, which is completely unverifiable, but take my word on it. It makes me better than you, therefore QED"



.....

Well, there goes being able to take you seriously.


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## Lauren (Jul 14, 2014)

Shirohibiki said:


> only problem is, isn't the injection like super expensive to make? >: thats what ive heard, but i cant confirm it. i dont know if cheaper ways exist, however.



Indeed, it needs a fair few chemicals, of which aren't cheap, I feel its... the most humane way to kill someone and... less messy?


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## mob (Jul 14, 2014)

Shirohibiki said:


> i dont know if cheaper ways exist, however.



guillotine! guillotine! guillotine!


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## CookingOkasan (Jul 14, 2014)

bot said:


> guillotine! guillotine! guillotine!


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## Jawile (Jul 14, 2014)

bot said:


> guillotine! guillotine! guillotine!



Yes! Let's bring back our medieval devices and show those criminals not to kill people anymore!


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## Naiad (Jul 14, 2014)

I'm personally against the death penalty. I would hate for someone would be put to death only for officers to realize they were innocent.


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## XTheLancerX (Jul 14, 2014)

I mean, if they are a murderer or a major threat to society, eliminating the threat is probably your best option... You never know, someone could somehow  make it out of prison, although nowadays that is getting harder and harder, but that is beside the point. Never take risks.


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## Shirohibiki (Jul 14, 2014)

Lauren said:


> Indeed, it needs a fair few chemicals, of which aren't cheap, I feel its... the most humane way to kill someone and... less messy?



hmm yeah <:S i wonder if there are pills, that could be made with the same effect but cheaper? maybe that could work.



bot said:


> guillotine! guillotine! guillotine!



OH GOD LOL i should not have laughed gamz thats sUPER messy


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## Jawile (Jul 14, 2014)

Lafiel said:


> I'm personally against the death penalty. I would hate for someone would be put to death only for officers to realize they were innocent.



if someone is given the death penalty, they've gotta have a pretty damn good amount of evidence before filling them with chemicals


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## Lauren (Jul 14, 2014)

Jawile said:


> Yes! Let's bring back our medieval devices and show those criminals not to kill people anymore!



The death penalty is the fear factor, if I knew I was going to die for doing something, I'd re-frame from doing it, criminals go to prison to live in the lap of luxury, English prisons are ridiculous! They get 3 square meals a day, entertainment and dont have to work and will live off tax payers money.

- - - Post Merge - - -



CookingOkasan said:


>



I should not have laughed at this like I did..


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 14, 2014)

Revolver Ocelot said:


> If you cause suffering, you should be shown what it's like to suffer. And they need to be punished equal to the suffering they've caused.
> 
> As for 'bettering the world', an uncomfortable existence is certainly a more formidable deterrent. People should fear going to prison. It needs to be a place where you do not want to end up, or re-visit. I'm not saying 'beat all these people to death', but it shouldn't be fun, or a cake walk, either.
> 
> ...



"If you cause suffering, you should be shown what it's like to suffer. And they need to be punished equal to the suffering they've caused. "

Again, how does this make the world better? Stop avoiding my question. I don't care what you think people deserve or don't deserve. How you even think you are capable of passing such moral judgments about other people is beyond me. 

"As for 'bettering the world', an uncomfortable existence is certainly a more formidable deterrent. People should fear going to prison. It needs to be a place where you do not want to end up, or re-visit."

Great! Now tie this in with your previous argument and show me how it justifies making more people suffer. Does this cause a deterrent that is shown to be more efficient than other deterrents? 

Now let me ask you this. Many crimes are committed in the heat of the moment. Do you think those people are thinking about your so called suffering? In particular, I want to know if you institute maximum punishment, will this drastically reduce crime? I am pretty sure it'll have the opposite effect.


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## CR33P (Jul 14, 2014)

Shirohibiki said:


> only problem is, isn't the injection like super expensive to make? >: thats what ive heard, but i cant confirm it. i dont know if cheaper ways exist, however.



not really, and when you compare it to taking care of them in the prison it's nothing.


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## Shirohibiki (Jul 14, 2014)

CR33P said:


> not really, and when you compare it to taking care of them in the prison it's nothing.



this is true, but i think im worried about like giving EVERYONE EVER the death penalty and then costs would really skyrocket then. but i think in moderation it would work! i say moderation as in, extreme cases.


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## Liquid Ocelot (Jul 14, 2014)

Riiiiptide said:


> "If you cause suffering, you should be shown what it's like to suffer. And they need to be punished equal to the suffering they've caused. "
> 
> Again, how does this make the world better? Stop avoiding my question. I don't care what you think people deserve or don't deserve. How you even think you are capable of passing such moral judgments about other people is beyond me.
> 
> ...



I'm not even sure how I can say this without repeating myself. 

If you're going to commit a crime, say, murder, you are causing the person's family/friends/etc to suffer. If you take someone's life for no good reason, you should know what it's like to face the consequences.

As for moral judgements, I'm not sure what good being soft-hearted does for anyone, either.


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 14, 2014)

Revolver Ocelot said:


> I'm not even sure how I can say this without repeating myself.
> 
> If you're going to commit a crime, say, murder, you are causing the person's family/friends/etc to suffer. If you take someone's life for no good reason, you should know what it's like to face the consequences.
> 
> As for moral judgements, I'm not sure what good being soft-hearted does for anyone, either.



You are repeating yourself because you refuse to address my question: how does forcing the other person to suffer better the world?


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## Geoni (Jul 14, 2014)

As if death is a penalty lmao. Make them do some kind of work for the rest of their lives so that they're not just leeches.


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 14, 2014)

Revolver Ocelot said:


> As for moral judgements, I'm not sure what good being soft-hearted does for anyone, either.



The complement to making moral judgment is not being soft-hearted. It's "not making moral judgments" or in other words, recognizing that each situation is unique. How can you say what a person deserves or doesn't deserve when you don't know anything about them, let alone have met them? Yet you seem perfectly content, happy even, to issue unlimited pain and suffering upon them.


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## Mewmewmewm (Jul 14, 2014)

How dare you kill! Killing is wrong! Now watch as we do it to you.
I dont know, i just feel like its pretty hypocritical personally. How are we gonna say killing is wrong and then do it ourselves.


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## Swiftstream (Jul 14, 2014)

CR33P said:


> no it doesn't.



Yes it does. When you file a death penalty on someone, they have to go through many many court battles. 
https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090501195247AALXWT8
http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42


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## Fia (Jul 14, 2014)

I have mixed thoughts. I mean, it seems fair, but at the same time you're punishing killing someone with killing someone?


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## CR33P (Jul 14, 2014)

Swiftstream said:


> Yes it does. When you file a death penalty on someone, they have to go through many many court battles.
> https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090501195247AALXWT8
> http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42



it's nothing compared to the cost of them in prison.


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## Chibiusa (Jul 14, 2014)

Lethal injection and whatnot is an easy way out. Prison is a paradise for some people. 

Torturing would be best.


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## Liquid Ocelot (Jul 14, 2014)

Riiiiptide said:


> The complement to making moral judgment is not being soft-hearted. It's "not making moral judgments" or in other words, recognizing that each situation is unique. How can you say what a person deserves or doesn't deserve when you don't know anything about them, let alone have met them? Yet you seem perfectly content, happy even, to issue unlimited pain and suffering upon them.



I'd reason with you, but frankly that's not working, and from what I understand, it never works. All you're going to do is make me out to be a sadist for no real reason, so. There's that.


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 14, 2014)

I've asked you for one and only one question. Until you can answer that question, don't try to pretend you "reasoned with me" lol.


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## Swiftstream (Jul 14, 2014)

CR33P said:


> it's nothing compared to the cost of them in prison.



No, clearly in the article it costs WAY WAY more to file a death penalty than it is to keep them incarcerated for life.
https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090501195247AALXWT8

Actually Lethal injection is one of the worst ways to die. The more gory it is, the less painful.

Mostly for lethal injections, you sit there in agony, while for guilletine its so fast that you wouldn't even feel it since your head would already be severed.


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## Jawile (Jul 14, 2014)

I'm glad that for our death penalties, we don't use the Brazen Bull.


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## Swiftstream (Jul 14, 2014)

thank god canada doesnt have a death penalty


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## Songbird (Jul 14, 2014)

bot said:


> so if someone killed you, you want them to live and be taken care of in a prison.
> nice.



Prison takes care of them, but not very well. Yeah, there are activities, but that's to keep them healthy. They want torture, not health problems from gaining weight due to not physical activities. And I don't support death penalty. Just because they ended a life doesn't mean their life has to end! They just need treatment so they don't do it again. Psychological problems probably influence a lot of murders. All they need is help and love. And punishment.


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## Jawile (Jul 14, 2014)

Songbird said:


> Prison takes care of them, but not very well. Yeah, there are activities, but that's to keep them healthy. They want torture, not health problems from gaining weight due to not physical activities. And I don't support death penalty. Just because they ended a life doesn't mean their life has to end! They just need treatment so they don't do it again. Psychological problems probably influence a lot of murders. All they need is help and love. And punishment.



and death


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## Prof Gallows (Jul 14, 2014)

You're really pushing these sensitive topics lately.
Make sure it doesn't get out of hand.

I'm for it in extreme cases.


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## Byngo (Jul 14, 2014)

I don't really feel like quoting all your posts, but anyways, Riiptide, are you trying to say people who commit serious crimes should not be held accountable? I don't agree with the death penalty but it seems like you're saying people who commit crimes should be treated good... Unless I'm misunderstanding something???


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## Bowie (Jul 14, 2014)

CookingOkasan said:


> I've written multiple 20+ page theses on the prison industrial complex. I'm going to go ahead and say my opinion is a little more educated and backed up than your one liner on ~rehabilitation~.
> 
> I'll admit that I should've added more to that post but it's in hindsight. Either way I implore you and everyone else to start with some light research, then move a bit deeper into the topic, maybe it will change your point of view?



Darling, I don't agree. It's as simple as that.


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## Jollian (Jul 14, 2014)

before i can even think about the death penalty something has to be done to reform our prisons ad the way people are sentenced because something isn't working. people get off all the time for terrible things like rape while some people get put in jail for way too long for things like drug possession, or maybe they did't even do anything at all. police brutality isn't unheard of as well. a lot of the times these decisions are racist like in the zimmerman trial. I suppose i'm for the death penalty if we can find some better way to convict criminals


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 14, 2014)

Natty said:


> I don't really feel like quoting all your posts, but anyways, Riiptide, are you trying to say people who commit serious crimes should not be held accountable? I don't agree with the death penalty but it seems like you're saying people who commit crimes should be treated good... Unless I'm misunderstanding something???



I'm not saying anything about their treatment. I'm asking how you guys are so confident inflicting suffering upon these people you don't even know.


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## Saylor (Jul 14, 2014)

I honestly haven't really done any research on the insides of prisons, so I'm wondering why people are saying prisoners are treated too well? I was under the impression that the freedom to watch tv, use the internet and do things like that weren't granted to those who commit extreme crimes, such as murder. Was I wrong in thinking that those criminals live in solitary confinement for most of their lives?


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## Byngo (Jul 14, 2014)

Riiiiptide said:


> I'm not saying anything about their treatment. I'm asking how you guys are so confident inflicting suffering upon these people you don't even know.



I personally never said anything about inflicting suffering upon them, HOWEVER, I do think they deserve to be punished for what they did. But I don't think sentencing someone to death is right. No matter how bad the person may have been, it's wrong to take a life.


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 14, 2014)

There are a lot of posts and I haven't read yours. My comments were directed towards the first few people who posted that seem to enjoy the concept of people suffering.


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## rockthemike13 (Jul 14, 2014)

I only dont agree with the death penalty because of how much of MY money goes into the execution process.  I think it's cheaper to just let a person rot in jail.


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## Byngo (Jul 14, 2014)

just to elaborate more... Even if someone committed homicide, I don't believe it's right to take the criminals life. The reason that person would be sentenced to death is because they took a life, so by that logic... The people that contribute to someone getting the death penalty should also be up for death, because they caused someone's life to be ended.

Sorry I probably sound like an idiot because I'm really not too educated about this topic. :|

- - - Post Merge - - -



Riiiiptide said:


> There are a lot of posts and I haven't read yours. My comments were directed towards the first few people who posted that seem to enjoy the concept of people suffering.



Oh, okay.


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## Shirohibiki (Jul 14, 2014)

Jawile said:


> I'm glad that for our death penalties, we don't use the Brazen Bull.



oh god but what about those iron maidens??? [SHUDDERS]


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## CookingOkasan (Jul 14, 2014)

...


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## Bowie (Jul 14, 2014)

CookingOkasan said:


> Darling? nahh that ain't me.
> 
> You disagree with what exactly? That the corporate prison system isn't a facet of institutionalized racism against various PoC? Or the promise and failure of "rehabilitation" as a means to re-incarcerate prisoners who are released right back into a community of systematic oppression? I'm honestly just confused on what about my post you're disagreeing with



I'm not disagreeing with you in particular. I just, don't agree with the idea of taking someone's life, no matter what they've done. I'm not gonna get get into a big debate over it, though. So, that's all I have to say.


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## CookingOkasan (Jul 14, 2014)

...


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## Liquid Ocelot (Jul 14, 2014)

Riiiiptide said:


> I've asked you for one and only one question. Until you can answer that question, don't try to pretend you "reasoned with me" lol.



It creates an example, and by doing so, should make the average person think twice before they stab someone in the chest. Senseless murderers and child killers should know that the consequence for their actions is death, or an unpleasant life locked away from the rest of the world. (If you kill someone in self-defense, that's not the same thing, and shouldn't warrant the same punishment.) 


I'm not going to _try to understand_ a child killer or a serial murderer. I don't have that kind of heart, and those people _do not belong_ integrated with society. They need to be removed, and once they are, their lives should be drastically different.

Sadistic, Draconic, Medieval, Barbaric- whatever you want to call me, that's fine. I'm fine with that.


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## Bowie (Jul 14, 2014)

CookingOkasan said:


> Oh, word. Yeah I'm against the death penalty to so we're on the same terms haha



Really? Oh, well, that's comforting to know.


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 14, 2014)

CookingOkasan said:


> Darling? nahh that ain't me.
> 
> You disagree with what exactly? That the corporate prison system isn't a facet of institutionalized racism against various PoC? Or the promise and failure of "rehabilitation" as a means to re-incarcerate prisoners who are released right back into a community of systematic oppression? I'm honestly just confused on what about my post you're disagreeing with



I love how you've said none of these things and are asking us to disagree with it. Oh but that's right, you're a leading expert in this field. No, you're better than that. Because leading experts would acknowledge differing opinions. No, you're the ultimate judge and jury right?

Truly, this is a piece of art right here. There's nothing more to be said.


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## mob (Jul 14, 2014)

@CookingOkasan 
I don't understand why you're bringing PoC into this, it's either you agree or you don't. It's not bad, but this thread isn't about corruptions and racial discrimination.


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 14, 2014)

Revolver Ocelot said:


> It creates an example, and by doing so, should make the average person think twice before they stab someone in the chest. Senseless murderers and child killers should know that the consequence for their actions is death, or an unpleasant life locked away from the rest of the world. (If you kill someone in self-defense, that's not the same thing, and shouldn't warrant the same punishment.)
> 
> 
> I'm not going to _try to understand_ a child killer or a serial murderer. I don't have that kind of heart, and those people _do not belong_ integrated with society. They need to be removed, and once they are, their lives should be drastically different.
> ...



See? Now you're finally starting to address the actual questions and concerns rather than talking about what you think people deserve or don't deserve. 

So then let me ask you this, which I asked already by the way but you didn't really address it: do harsher punishments (beyond what is currently accepted by modern world standards) correlate/associate/cause lower crime rates?

Did the CIA harsh interrogation methods, for example, deter terrorism? Don't think so, in fact it was used as propaganda to recruit MORE terrorists.


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## Justin (Jul 14, 2014)

No, it's inhumane.

There's a reason it's been abolished for decades in my country.


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## Mercedes (Jul 14, 2014)

Justin said:


> No, it's inhumane.
> 
> There's a reason it's been abolished for decades in my country.



You would not be saying that if they killed your mother or father. Maybe your brother or sister?

I support it. They killed someone they  deserve death, it's a fair trade.


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## Prof Gallows (Jul 14, 2014)

Luckypinch said:


> You would not be saying that if they killed your mother or father. Maybe your brother or sister?
> 
> I support it. They killed someone they  deserve death, it's a fair trade.



Welp. Started my counter to see how long it takes before the thread gets closed after this statement.(which I completely disagree with.)


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## Bowie (Jul 14, 2014)

Justin said:


> No, it's inhumane.
> 
> There's a reason it's been abolished for decades in my country.



At last!


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## GameLaxer (Jul 14, 2014)

bot said:


> yes, i approve of it. as long as it's on the same level of the crime the person has done. ie. murder



I disagree. To quote Ghandi, "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind." Although it might seem like it is a just punishment (you took a life, therefore you should have to give up your own), it won't bring the victim back or heal any wounds. It just perpetuates the cycle of hatred, in my opinion. Furthermore, there have been people on Death Row from a long ways back, and now they have the technology for DNA testing, etc. Many people have been found innocent as a result. Would you want even just one innocent person to die for the sake of another guilty one? or more? What if that innocent person was you, or someone you cared about? The Death Penalty is final. There cannot be any room for error, and as humans, we are all flawed, which means that there is always room for error.


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## Justin (Jul 14, 2014)

Luckypinch said:


> You would not be saying that if they killed your mother or father. Maybe your brother or sister?
> 
> I support it. They killed someone they  deserve death, it's a fair trade.



An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.


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## Jawile (Jul 14, 2014)

why isnt this closed already


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## Mario97 (Jul 14, 2014)

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. 

Killing somebody will not reverse what they did. It does not get revenge. It does not make you equal. It just kills another person.


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## ryan88 (Jul 14, 2014)

Riiiiptide said:


> See? Now you're finally starting to address the actual questions and concerns rather than talking about what you think people deserve or don't deserve.
> 
> So then let me ask you this, which I asked already by the way but you didn't really address it: do harsher punishments (beyond what is currently accepted by modern world standards) correlate/associate/cause lower crime rates?
> 
> Did the CIA harsh interrogation methods, for example, deter terrorism? Don't think so, in fact it was used as propaganda to recruit MORE terrorists.



I do support death penalty because if you had a child and someone killed your child would you be mad? We should treat people how they treat us! So if they killed your friend or family would you want to get revenge? And to answer you question...I don't really think harsher punishments would lower the crime rate.


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## Mercedes (Jul 14, 2014)

ryan88 said:


> I do support death penalty because if you had a child and someone killed your child would you be mad? We should treat people how they treat us! So if they killed your friend or family would you want to get revenge? And to answer you question...I don't really think harsher punishments would lower the crime rate.



Thank you!


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## Liquid Ocelot (Jul 14, 2014)

Riiiiptide said:


> See? Now you're finally starting to address the actual questions and concerns rather than talking about what you think people deserve or don't deserve.
> 
> So then let me ask you this, which I asked already by the way but you didn't really address it: do harsher punishments (beyond what is currently accepted by modern world standards) correlate/associate/cause lower crime rates?
> 
> Did the CIA harsh interrogation methods, for example, deter terrorism? Don't think so, in fact it was used as propaganda to recruit MORE terrorists.



Why are we bringing up interrogation and terrorism.

Because that doesn't work the same way at all, especially since terrorist groups tend to have ideologies, and bringing to light how horrible the interrogation process was- just gave them more fuel to assert that they're right about their target being horrible people as a whole, which backs up their ideology. 

Whereas in the prison system, if you say "if you do X, the punishment is Y", you might have people rethinking X. If it doesn't deter them, they'd better have a decent reason for doing what they've done.


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## Shirohibiki (Jul 14, 2014)

just out of curiosity, to those against it, do you just prefer theyre in prison, then? without cruel and unusual punishments like torture of course. like, what im asking is, you think prison is the route to stick with? or do you think something else should be done that is not cruel and unusual?


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## Mewmewmewm (Jul 14, 2014)

ryan88 said:


> I do support death penalty because if you had a child and someone killed your child would you be mad? We should treat people how they treat us! So if they killed your friend or family would you want to get revenge? And to answer you question...I don't really think harsher punishments would lower the crime rate.





Mario97 said:


> An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
> 
> Killing somebody will not reverse what they did. It does not get revenge. It does not make you equal. It just kills another person.


*^
|
|
|*


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 14, 2014)

Revolver Ocelot said:


> Why are we bringing up interrogation and terrorism.
> 
> Because that doesn't work the same way at all, especially since terrorist groups tend to have ideologies, and bringing to light how horrible the interrogation process was- just gave them more fuel to assert that they're right about their target being horrible people as a whole, which backs up their ideology.
> 
> Whereas in the prison system, if you say "if you do X, the punishment is Y", you might have people rethinking X. If it doesn't deter them, they'd better have a decent reason for doing what they've done.



Because you asserted that a harsher punishment for something will somehow lead to a greater deterrent to that action. When that has multiple times been proved false, you need to justify it.

- - - Post Merge - - -



ryan88 said:


> I do support death penalty because if you had a child and someone killed your child would you be mad? We should treat people how they treat us! So if they killed your friend or family would you want to get revenge? And to answer you question...I don't really think harsher punishments would lower the crime rate.



So because you are mad, that justifies killing another person?


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## Prof Gallows (Jul 14, 2014)

Shirohibiki said:


> just out of curiosity, to those against it, do you just prefer theyre in prison, then? without cruel and unusual punishments like torture of course. like, what im asking is, you think prison is the route to stick with? or do you think something else should be done that is not cruel and unusual?



Chuck them into prison and make them do unpaid manual labor.


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## CookingOkasan (Jul 14, 2014)

....


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## Aryxia (Jul 14, 2014)

For me, it depends on the solidity of the case, the circumstances of the murders (It really should only be used on serial killers imo), the person's mental state & the quality of life they'll experience in prison. As long as they spend the rest of their days alone in an empty room, lock them up. If they are entertained and allowed to interact with other human beings however, I'd rather see them dead. They're supposed to be in prison, not summer camp.


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## Saylor (Jul 14, 2014)

Shirohibiki said:


> just out of curiosity, to those against it, do you just prefer theyre in prison, then? without cruel and unusual punishments like torture of course. like, what im asking is, you think prison is the route to stick with? or do you think something else should be done that is not cruel and unusual?


I mentioned earlier that I'm a bit confused on the reality of how the prison system works, but it does seem very disorganized. I don't know what a better alternative may be, so until I have better understanding of how the system works and hear more ideas, I believe prisoners who commit extreme crimes such as murder should remain in prison for life unless proven innocent. There are exceptions, of course, such as cases of self-defense. But in general, yes, I agree with the "prison route" at this point.


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## ViolinShapedObject (Jul 14, 2014)

Hmm I was at first pro-death penalty, but reading some of these counter arguments makes me reconsider. With death penalty being the harshest punishment, it still doesn't deter people from committing the same crime again, same for other punishments (as in prison). Receiving the death penalty for killing another person isn't justified as an act of revenge or "to get even" with either. With that said, the prison system isn't all that great either at deterring people and needs to be reformed.


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## Liquid Ocelot (Jul 14, 2014)

Riiiiptide said:


> Because you asserted that a harsher punishment for something will somehow lead to a greater deterrent to that action. When that has multiple times been proved false, you need to justify it.



I justify it by saying that if you're still willing to kill someone in cold blood, or violate them, or whatever, if you know the punishment is death- the world is probably better off without you in the first place. 

I really can't just change my belief that there are certain crimes that warrant death. That's how I am. If that doesn't sit well with you, I'm not insulted, and I don't expect you to up and side with me, either.


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## Aryxia (Jul 14, 2014)

Riiiiptide said:


> Because you asserted that a harsher punishment for something will somehow lead to a greater deterrent to that action. When that has multiple times been proved false, you need to justify it.



I can see your point, but the primary reason as to why terrorists are able to use CIA interrogation methods as propaganda for their cause is because they can make it seem personal. People can identify with the "victim" because it can easily be seen as attack on their religion/culture, especially when it comes from another country that operates off of a different system and has  different values. It's pretty much impossible for people to identify with convicted serial killers/rapists, unless they're mentally disturbed. Even then, it probably won't give them the drive to launch a massive attack- at worst, they'll just become more cautious surrounding their future actions. 

I hope this doesn't come across as me attacking you- I really don't mean it in that way.


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## Nage (Jul 14, 2014)

bot said:


> yes, i approve of it. as long as it's on the same level of the crime the person has done. ie. murder



this.


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## Liquid Ocelot (Jul 14, 2014)

Aryxia said:


> I can see your point, but the primary reason as to why terrorists are able to use CIA interrogation methods as propaganda for their cause is because they can make it seem personal. People can identify with the "victim" because it can easily be seen as attack on their religion/culture, especially when it comes from another country that operates off of a different system and has  different values. It's pretty much impossible for people to identify with convicted serial killers/rapists, unless they're mentally disturbed. Even then, it probably won't give them the drive to launch a massive attack- at worst, they'll just become more cautious surrounding their future actions.
> 
> I hope this doesn't come across as me attacking you- I really don't mean it in that way.



ty

ty so much


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## Shirohibiki (Jul 14, 2014)

Prof Gallows said:


> Chuck them into prison and make them do unpaid manual labor.





Saylor said:


> I mentioned earlier that I'm a bit confused on the reality of how the prison system works, but it does seem very disorganized. I don't know what a better alternative may be, so until I have better understanding of how the system works and hear more ideas, I believe prisoners who commit extreme crimes such as murder should remain in prison for life unless proven innocent. There are exceptions, of course, such as cases of self-defense. But in general, yes, I agree with the "prison route" at this point.



good enough for me! =) im confused about the prison system too haha so orz


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 14, 2014)

Aryxia said:


> I can see your point, but the primary reason as to why terrorists are able to use CIA interrogation methods as propaganda for their cause is because they can make it seem personal. People can identify with the "victim" because it can easily be seen as attack on their religion/culture, especially when it comes from another country that operates off of a different system and has  different values. It's pretty much impossible for people to identify with convicted serial killers/rapists, unless they're mentally disturbed. Even then, it probably won't give them the drive to launch a massive attack- at worst, they'll just become more cautious surrounding their future actions.
> 
> I hope this doesn't come across as me attacking you- I really don't mean it in that way.



Okay I'll accept it. But I'm still skeptical of the existence of a correlation between harsher punishments and deterrent. Does having a death penalty deter crime? We have a death penalty in the US but our crime rates are higher than other developed nations, especially ones that do not have a death penalty.


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## Cazqui (Jul 14, 2014)

I agree with it to an extent, some people are just naturally dangerous to society and there's no fixing that. I'm all for torture then Kill them.


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## Aryxia (Jul 14, 2014)

Riiiiptide said:


> Okay I'll accept it. But I'm still skeptical of the existence of a correlation between harsher punishments and deterrent. Does having a death penalty deter crime? We have a death penalty in the US but our crime rates are higher than other developed nations, especially ones that do not have a death penalty.



I don't think that harsher punishments act as a deterrent either  I haven't done much research into the subject, but I'm sure that the amount of social welfare available is a huge contributor, as well as the quality of ex-prisoners' rehabilitation.


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## Elise (Jul 14, 2014)

I have actually just studied criminal law at uni. Basically, in order for someone to be convicted the prosecution needs to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that the defendant is guilty. I voted no on this basis because of this concept. 'Beyond reasonable doubt' does not mean beyond _any_ doubt. Therefore with this system, there is the slight possibility of wrongful convictions. This is Australian law I'm talking about. I'm not sure how it works in other countries.

I would only support the use of a death penalty if it was 100% certain that the person was guilty and it was a particularly heinous crime.


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## WonderK (Jul 14, 2014)

Yes and no. Some people just need to outright die. Others? Eh. Let them rot away. Then again, I hate that us tax payers have to pay to keep them alive until they rot away. I'm pretty neutral when it comes to it.


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 14, 2014)

Aryxia said:


> I don't think that harsher punishments act as a deterrent either  I haven't done much research into the subject, but I'm sure that the amount of social welfare available is a huge contributor, as well as the quality of ex-prisoners' rehabilitation.



Yeah, I'm redirecting it back to the original person who keeps insisting it is a deterrent. Really though, I am pretty sure he is just trying to conform facts to his theory, rather than his theory to facts.


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## chronic (Jul 14, 2014)

...


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## GameLaxer (Jul 15, 2014)

Shirohibiki said:


> just out of curiosity, to those against it, do you just prefer theyre in prison, then? without cruel and unusual punishments like torture of course. like, what im asking is, you think prison is the route to stick with? or do you think something else should be done that is not cruel and unusual?



Prisons are already overcrowded, I realize that, but if more prisons were to be built or new punishments created, then that would create jobs for security guards, wardens, etc. thus boosting the economy in some form. Also, the prisoners could be entered into a community service program during which they could benefit the world, if that program were voluntary, a plea could probably be arranged for a shorter sentence or whatever if they participated (not rehabilitation completely, though that helps). Also, education in prisons is very important. It helps get people out of gangs and thinking individually; it raises self-esteem and gives a prisoner an alternate route than crime (especially theft, etc.) to look forward to upon leaving jail. I personally don't understand why a random person killing another random person is called murder, yet when the government does it it has it's own name and law?! I think it's a form of murder itself; we just accept it more because the government has an aura of authority and we already are under the assumption that those on Death Row deserve to be there.


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## jessicat_197 (Jul 15, 2014)

The death penalty is hypocritical. If someone murders another person and you sentence him to death, aren't you basically murdering him? Have them do labor instead. Death is an easy way out. Let them know what they did was wrong. This is just my opinion, you can disagree if you have a different view


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## GameLaxer (Jul 15, 2014)

Elise said:


> I have actually just studied criminal law at uni. Basically, in order for someone to be convicted the prosecution needs to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that the defendant is guilty. I voted no on this basis because of this concept. 'Beyond reasonable doubt' does not mean beyond _any_ doubt. Therefore with this system, there is the slight possibility of wrongful convictions. This is Australian law I'm talking about. I'm not sure how it works in other countries.
> 
> I would only support the use of a death penalty if it was 100% certain that the person was guilty and it was a particularly heinous crime.



very well stated


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## Liquid Ocelot (Jul 15, 2014)

Riiiiptide said:


> Yeah, I'm redirecting it back to the original person who keeps insisting it is a deterrent. Really though, I am pretty sure he is just trying to conform facts to his theory, rather than his theory to facts.



idek anymore, man. 

I'm for it. I'm all for it. That's really the only thing that matters in this thread, anyway.


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## katsuragi (Jul 15, 2014)

rapists and paedophiles deserve the death sentence, plus our jails don't have enough room and resources to accommodate inhuman people


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## Titi (Jul 15, 2014)

I'm totally against it.
I don't believe in the right to take someone's life, even if they've done it.
It's no excuse to do the same. 
They should rot in awful prisons for the rest of their life and do chores for society, but not be killed.

edit: Although in a perfect world I'd like them to be brainwashed into perfect, empty shells of human beings. Like in the movie clockwork orange or the book 1984 lol.


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## baller (Jul 15, 2014)

chronic said:


> Death is a penalty? Since when? I always thought this was contradictory. I say lock them up. Give them a few long years of solitary confinement to think about what they've done. It shouldn't be exclusive either, anyone who has harmed another person has the chance to reform themselves and "turn over a new leaf"
> 
> Or just let them rot if they're a serial killer. I just think that it's wrong to end someone else's life under any circumstances, without their consent anyway.


death is pretty bad do u want to die???


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## Kairi-Kitten (Jul 15, 2014)

I absolutely disagree with the death sentence, at my age I am quite saddened by ANY death at all </3 I highly prefer life in prison to think and rot over what they have done over the years, over some brutal and inhumane treatment of death; I realize some of their terrible crimes, however watching a person die during a death sentencing is like treating them like the animal they treated their victims, sorry I just don't agree. I seem to have a huge kindness towards prisoners as well, they are human too despite their despicable and heinous crimes. Some of these people, men and women even become humane later while in prison, it's cruel to off them when they have the chance to turn themselves a new leaf while in prison if they get the chance to. I am done with my statement.


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## Hai (Jul 15, 2014)

I don't support it and I'm glad we don't have it anymore here in Germany. Well, except for Hessen, but they don't do it anyway^^'

I believe that people have no right to end the life of another. 
I'm not religious or anything, but time is the only thing we've actually got. It's better to lock someone up/send him to therapy if he threatens the rest of us than just killing him. That doesn't solve any problems.
Also, I hear that many people who are/were actually innocent got death penalty. This shows that we can't trust the system to actually work. 
And besides, it's just cruel to kill someone as punishment (_and_ let them wait for their death).


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## Tessie (Jul 15, 2014)

I agree with the death penalty BUT

1. If it's a crime of mass spontaneous murder, or raping/killing children/babies

2. Absolute viable proof, and the prisoner also admitting to being guilty of the crime they did

3. An adult who committed these crimes


I rather not waste our tax dollars on someone who cannot function or live in our society in a peaceful way. I personally know if someone killed someone I love like...God forbid my mother/father/brother I would want them dead. Dead on the spot. They don't deserve to live, and they took/destroyed the life of others. 

The death penalty in America for the most part is very very very humane too. They inject you with 3 barbiturates..you aren't even aware you die because you are unconscious, it's extremely peaceful, it's like going down under anesthesia for surgery.


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## Brackets (Jul 15, 2014)

No way.
1. Two wrongs do not make a right, and it's showing that we're just as bad as them
2. People make mistakes and can become better. I once saw a show about a lots of murderers who had righted themselves, including man who was pressured into killing someone when he was only 17, and now he's out of prison and teaches kids not to make the same mistakes he did. You never know their full story.
3. I know it's rare, but people can be wrongly convicted. Better to spend 20 years in prison then get out because they find the real murderer etc, than to die.


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## Capella (Jul 15, 2014)

yes


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## Kairi-Kitten (Jul 15, 2014)

Tessie said:


> I agree with the death penalty BUT
> 
> 1. If it's a crime of mass spontaneous murder, or raping/killing children/babies
> 
> ...



Research how flawed this death penalty is, it is certainly not as peaceful as you may think. They do feel extreme pain, some convulsing in some cases; please look up the info before assuming such things. No death penalty is worth watching someone suffer regardless of what they've done. I don't mean to argue; I am just disgusted so many are against banning this form of punishment >:


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## Capella (Jul 15, 2014)

Swiftstream said:


> It costs more to kill somebody than to keep them alive and rehabilitate them.



???? no


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## Kairi-Kitten (Jul 15, 2014)

Anyhow this whole thread is pretty controversial and will have varying opinions haha, I shall leave it at that.


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## Lassy (Jul 15, 2014)

CookingOkasan said:


> rehabilitation is a joke.



Yes it is a joke.
I support capital punishment for crimes such as murder and rape.


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## Tessie (Jul 15, 2014)

Kairi-Kitten said:


> Research how flawed this death penalty is, it is certainly not as peaceful as you may think. They do feel extreme pain, some convulsing in some cases; please look up the info before assuming such things. No death penalty is worth watching someone suffer regardless of what they've done. I don't mean to argue; I am just disgusted so many are against banning this form of punishment >:



I have researched about lethal injections and read about the chemicals and the substances, and there are 3 barbiturates, the first chemical is to make them unconscious (and also can cause death), the 2nd chemical causes paralysis, and the 3rd causes death.  It's suppose to be a painless death, of course like anything medically, there are cases when maybe administrating and finding the vein is difficult. But when it actually works and goes into the vein, its painless, and that's what usually happens.


I really don't care what a criminal goes through though, I honestly have no heart for anyone who could kill or murder someone brutally. They're lucky they're getting such a humane treatment honestly >_> I can't imagine how the victim felt being killed...or how the loved ones feel.


But like I said, if there was accurate proof and the prisoner admitted to being guilty, then I have no problem with the death penalty. If there's a slight uncertainty whether the person did the crime or not, then it shouldn't be administered.


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## Kairi-Kitten (Jul 15, 2014)

Tessie said:


> I have researched about lethal injections and read about the chemicals and the substances, and there are 3 barbiturates, the first chemical is to make them unconscious, the 2nd chemical causes paralysis, and the 3rd causes death.  It's suppose to be a painless death, of course like anything medically, there are cases when maybe administrating and finding the vein is difficult. But when it actually works and goes into the vein, its painless, and that's what usually happens.
> 
> 
> I really don't care what a criminal goes through though, I honestly have no heart for anyone who could kill or murder someone brutally. They're lucky they're getting such a humane treatment honestly >_> I can't imagine how the victim felt being killed...or how the loved ones feel.
> ...



Not going to start a debate lol xD But I still have my own thoughts and opinions on the matter and yes I have done some prison research and am into the whole political shindig on the banning of punishment, anyhow my thoughts are different and will continue to stay so <: I said I would end my opinionated thoughts so, bam! no more opinions from me

I debate too often anyways with everyone around me hehe xD


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## Brackets (Jul 15, 2014)

For people who say they have no sympathy for murderers
I'm not saying they're nice people at all, but sometimes you need to know their story
What about a girl who kills her rapist in self defence? or a man who finds out someone's been hurting his daughter and kills them out of anger, and love for his daughter? or someone who is psychologically ill and has been abused all his life by his parents and one day flips out and kills his mum
Obviously those would be special cases but i'm just saying that murderers don't always go out and say 'ooh who shall I kill today' there's often a reason


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## Tessie (Jul 15, 2014)

i understand o.o 

in the end, it's what i feel for the criminal and not about the whole hypocritical aspect of "killing should not equal killing as a punishment!" aspect because when a loved one has been murdered all im thinking about is justice and wanting that person gone from this earth before i begin thinking about hypocritical thoughts lol. 

you never know how you feel about a criminal or the hatred and anger you feel until it happens to you, don't care what a criminal goes through because i believe he/she deserves to die for ruining the life of another.




but that's just me emotionally.



Hallie said:


> For people who say they have no sympathy for murderers
> I'm not saying they're nice people at all, but sometimes you need to know their story
> What about a girl who kills her rapist in self defence? or a man who finds out someone's been hurting his daughter and kills them out of anger, and love for his daughter? or someone who is psychologically ill and has been abused all his life by his parents and one day flips out and kills his mum
> Obviously those would be special cases but i'm just saying that murderers don't always go out and say 'ooh who shall I kill today' there's often a reason




which is why I had my specific reasons for why the death penalty should occur on a criminal and that is if they did spontaneous mass murder (like the recent 20-something year old in Santa Barbara who killed UCSB students because he was a virgin), or people who rape or murder children, and for these cases they are found guilty with proof. 

there are really messed up cases on why people do what they do, like the man who kidnapped 3 girls in his neighborhood and kept them hidden for years in his basement for sex, and one had a child, or virginia tech shooting, or the man who did horrible sexual acts on a 1 month old baby. these people deserve death, and nothing less.  not many cases are like the criminals in Shawshank Redemption even though I wish I could see criminals that way, I just cant because it's a movie, and they cant be rehabilitated.


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## Jawile (Jul 15, 2014)

Hallie said:


> For people who say they have no sympathy for murderers
> I'm not saying they're nice people at all, but sometimes you need to know their story
> What about a *girl who kills her rapist in self defence?* or a man who finds out someone's been hurting his daughter and kills them out of anger, and love for his daughter? or someone who is psychologically ill and has been abused all his life by his parents and one day flips out and kills his mum
> Obviously those would be special cases but i'm just saying that murderers don't always go out and say 'ooh who shall I kill today' there's often a reason



well I do have sympathy for THAT type of murderer
self-defense is the only type of murder that I think is okay (as long as it's not like, a bully on the playground who stole your lunch money, like a guy who is actually threatening your life)


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## katsuragi (Jul 15, 2014)

Hallie said:


> For people who say they have no sympathy for murderers
> I'm not saying they're nice people at all, but sometimes you need to know their story
> What about a girl who kills her rapist in self defence? or a man who finds out someone's been hurting his daughter and kills them out of anger, and love for his daughter? or someone who is psychologically ill and has been abused all his life by his parents and one day flips out and kills his mum
> Obviously those would be special cases but i'm just saying that murderers don't always go out and say 'ooh who shall I kill today' there's often a reason



well obviously the court takes different situations into consideration, it's not a matter of just killing murderers. one off murders would be a lot less likely to result in the death penalty, whereas serial killers would be.

personally, i think that anyone in control of their faculties who kills someone who is unable to defend themselves (a child, a mentally unstable person etc) deserves the death sentence. anyone else who murders should be sentenced to life (excepting situations of self defence).


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## oath2order (Jul 15, 2014)

Y'all are extreme. I got a lot to say on this topic, and it's based on Amrrican prisons.

1) Death penalty should ONLY be used in extreme cases. DC snipers, guys behind 9/11 and the like.

2) We need to focus much more on rehabilitation. Yes, they are prisoners and I don't think they should be in a cozy hotel suite, but the recidivism rate in Amrrica is ridiculously high. Now, yes, some criminals can't be rehabilitated, but the criminal justice system in Finland seems to be working pretty well. 67% recidivism jn the US and its roughly half that in Finland. And other Scandinavian countries too. Give them job training, therapy for any mental issues they may have. There's so much more we could be doing.

3) End the stupid war on drugs in America; tbat alone will solve the overcrowding issue.


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## Mega_Cabbage (Jul 15, 2014)

What about the people in the military? They kill thousands of innocent civilians and people who are fighting for what they believe in (even if what they believe in is their corrupt government). It can't always be an act of self defense. Sure America fights to protect nations, but only if that nation has something to offer. I'm not trying to belittle the military, but I'm saying that they fit the category of murderer (even mass murderer). I know some people are drafted into the military and can't refuse, but why is that? If you don't fight, then you get jailed? So according to some people's arguements, shouldn't the military get the death penalty? They are capable of protecting themselves, mentally functioning, and murder people, yet they come home heroes (except in Vietnam). What should happen to them?


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## Riiiiptide (Jul 15, 2014)

There's really no controversy. It's the US that does it and other developed nations that don't. That's it.


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## Yui Z (Jul 15, 2014)

I don't really agree with the death penalty. Locking the wrong person up is bad enough, but then taking their life and realizing that they didn't commit the crime is awful. If they've broken the law, then don't put them out of their misery. Let them suffer in prison (or 'jail' as the Americans call it).


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## Liquid Ocelot (Jul 15, 2014)

Mega_Cabbage said:


> What about the people in the military? They kill thousands of innocent civilians and people who are fighting for what they believe in (even if what they believe in is their corrupt government). It can't always be an act of self defense. Sure America fights to protect nations, but only if that nation has something to offer. I'm not trying to belittle the military, but I'm saying that they fit the category of murderer (even mass murderer). I know some people are drafted into the military and can't refuse, but why is that? If you don't fight, then you get jailed? So according to some people's arguements, shouldn't the military get the death penalty? They are capable of protecting themselves, mentally functioning, and murder people, yet they come home heroes (except in Vietnam). What should happen to them?



If you serve in the military, you're already taking the fact that you could be killed into consideration. It's not just "let's go murder some people who can't defend themselves". 

And what should happen to them is nothing, outside of being given benefits. It's nothing near the same thing. At least to me, because I think there are circumstances in which killing someone is generally acceptable. War, for instance. But I'm not going to get on that topic because I'll just talk your face off.


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## mob (Jul 15, 2014)

I wouldn't make the Military sound like complete ****, they do their job because it's what they're told. They rarely kill innocent civilians, when they do it's because they're acting suspicious. Do you really think that those Heroes really think of themselves as heroes in the end?


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## Clara Oswald (Jul 15, 2014)

Mariah said:


> I'd rather let people suffer.



I agree only I think knowing what you had done would really torture some people enough for the rest of the lives. Anyway you could get it wrong and kill an innocent person.


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## MozzarellaSticks (Jul 15, 2014)

I'm against it completely. I'm also against our current prison system. It's become a for profit venture and focuses on punishment. We need a prison system that focuses on rehabilitation. We also need to reform how we handle poverty. I just think that if we understand crime we can better prevent it.

I could write a lot on this, but TBT isn't the place for an essay on society's failures, so I'll just leave it at that.


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## rockthemike13 (Jul 15, 2014)

MozzarellaSticks said:


> I'm against it completely. I'm also against our current prison system. It's become a for profit venture and focuses on punishment. We need a prison system that focuses on rehabilitation. We also need to reform how we handle poverty. I just think that if we understand crime we can better prevent it.



I've been saying this for years and years.  It's hard for me to state any statistics, but from what I've observed, heard, seen and read about most people in the US coming out of prison just continue to be felons.  Some simply because they can't readjust to life outside of prison, since it is SO different than life on the outside, and just want to get back.

Our prison system is broken, JUST teaching some one to do the time isn't helping any body.

Although, I still am technically for the death penalty.  I do believe there are people that can never be rehabilitated, and are incarnates of evil.  These type of people I'd be happy to see done away with, however, the way the death penalty currently works is so broken I'm not for it.  If they could fix it, I would be.


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## Caius (Jul 15, 2014)

rockthemike13 said:


> I've been saying this for years and years.  It's hard for me to state any statistics, but from what I've observed, heard, seen and read about most people in the US coming out of prison just continue to be felons.  Some simply because they can't readjust to life outside of prison, since it is SO different than life on the outside, and just want to get back.
> 
> Our prison system is broken, JUST teaching some one to do the time isn't helping any body.
> 
> Although, I still am technically for the death penalty.  I do believe there are people that can never be rehabilitated, and are incarnates of evil.  These type of people I'd be happy to see done away with, however, the way the death penalty currently works is so broken I'm not for it.  If they could fix it, I would be.



The prison system is broken because it's the backbone for state funding. Texas and Florida are both prison states, and the death penalty cleans out the system. 

If you've ever read prisoner accounts of what life behind the doors is like, you'll quickly realize people go back to prison for a reason. They're usually not treated badly at all, and most of the time when it's a prison state they let the inmates run the jail pretty much. 

In Florida, Miami specifically, I had a friend that was put in prison for two years, came out, and all he would do is whine that he wanted to go back because he worked his way up on the hierarchy enough that he got respect and friends that he never had outside.


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## Aerious (Jul 15, 2014)

Mariah said:


> I'd rather let people suffer.


It's cheaper to keep someone in prison for the rest of their life too. Let them rot.


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## Caius (Jul 15, 2014)

Aerious said:


> It's cheaper to keep someone in prison for the rest of their life too. Let them rot.



No it's not. The state gets tax funds from everyone outside the pen to keep it open and hold them.


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## GameLaxer (Jul 15, 2014)

Cent said:


> No it's not. The state gets tax funds from everyone outside the pen to keep it open and hold them.



So basically, it's cheaper for the person who committed the crime, but it's more expensive for the general public and the victims within that population? XD


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## rockthemike13 (Jul 15, 2014)

Cent said:


> No it's not. The state gets tax funds from everyone outside the pen to keep it open and hold them.



I could be wrong, but I've read and heard on multiple occasions that the death penalty is many times more expensive than life in jail, simply because of the due processes involved.

http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyph...g-the-death-penalty-your-tax-dollars-at-work/
http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/death-penalty/us-death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost

These are just a few sources, not stating any are correct, I've only Google searched it and am not at all claiming accuracy or proper studying on my part.


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## Caius (Jul 15, 2014)

rockthemike13 said:


> I could be wrong, but I've read and heard on multiple occasions that the death penalty is many times more expensive than life in jail, simply because of the due processes involved.
> 
> http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyph...g-the-death-penalty-your-tax-dollars-at-work/
> ...



In some cases, yes, those are correct. It also depends on how long the sentence is until said prisoner actually dies during a lifetime sentence, how much the state pays out per prisoner, etc. If it's a Death Penalty state, usually prisoners on death row are there for *years.* So that does add to the cost.



GameLaxer said:


> So basically, it's cheaper for the person who committed the crime, but it's more expensive for the general public and the victims within that population? XD



Free room and board, protected incarceration, food multiple times a day (prisoners usually run the kitchens anyway), spiritual guidance if you're into that kind of thing, education, rehabilitation in some cases. 

You tell me.


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## rockthemike13 (Jul 15, 2014)

Cent said:


> In some cases, yes, those are correct. It also depends on how long the sentence is until said prisoner actually dies during a lifetime sentence, how much the state pays out per prisoner, etc. If it's a Death Penalty state, usually prisoners on death row are there for *years.* So that does add to the cost.



So I guess it's safe to say, with the way our current system is, that the death penalty on average is a LOT more expensive than just life time incarceration?  

That's why I voted against it.  Not even to debate the moral aspects of it, just that if some one murders my grandma and sister and wife/whatever, I'd rather see 10 million of our dollars go to jailing them forever and ever than 100 million into killing them.


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## Caius (Jul 15, 2014)

rockthemike13 said:


> So I guess it's safe to say, with the way our current system is, that the death penalty on average is a LOT more expensive than just life time incarceration?
> 
> That's why I voted against it.  Not even to debate the moral aspects of it, just that if some one murders my grandma and sister and wife/whatever, I'd rather see 10 million of our dollars go to jailing them forever and ever than 100 million into killing them.



If they were immediately (give or take a year or two after sentencing) put on the chair/injected, then it wouldn't be an issue. Again, as you said before, the whole system needs to be reworked. People *shouldn't want to go back to prison to begin with.*


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## GameLaxer (Jul 15, 2014)

Cent said:


> In some cases, yes, those are correct. It also depends on how long the sentence is until said prisoner actually dies during a lifetime sentence, how much the state pays out per prisoner, etc. If it's a Death Penalty state, usually prisoners on death row are there for *years.* So that does add to the cost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, so I understand that it is a cheaper living situation for the prisoners, but they wouldn't be able to have a normal life in prison. They sacrifice their freedom for the crimes they've committed. The community as a whole pays the taxes for the prison in order to create a safe atmosphere for the community AS A WHOLE. The death penalty makes room for more prisoners, to continue the cycle of taxes/funding for prisons, etc., not to mention that it is morally wrong to have someone killed while they are strapped down and injected with an expensive concoction of a myriad of drugs. It's like high kill shelters for dogs and other animals, which I also find horrible. I think that the problem should be addressed not when an accused person is in court, but before that--find the cause of certain crimes in certain areas and attempt to ameliorate those situations in society instead of overcrowding prisons in states that advocate for the Death Penalty. The world is already exceeding its carrying capacity and people are starving, poor, and looking to survive by what ever means possible in a lot of situations, sadly. There are many causes for crime that lead to the Death Penalty, and a lot of the states that allow it are less liberal, making racism and other forms of discrimination much more prominent in Death Row related decisions. As a result, I cannot support such a system that values killing people rather than finding the cause of a larger problem.


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## Cazqui (Jul 15, 2014)

This is an add on to my last post, Only if they've been proven to have committed whichever crime they're on death row for. There's a lot of people who're on/who have been on death row who were entirely innocent and that was discovered years after they'd been put to death.


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## Lassy (Jul 15, 2014)

Tessie said:


> I have researched about lethal injections and read about the chemicals and the substances, and there are 3 barbiturates, the first chemical is to make them unconscious (and also can cause death), the 2nd chemical causes paralysis, and the 3rd causes death.  It's suppose to be a painless death, of course like anything medically, there are cases when maybe administrating and finding the vein is difficult. But when it actually works and goes into the vein, its painless, and that's what usually happens.
> 
> I really don't care what a criminal goes through though, I honestly have no heart for anyone who could kill or murder someone brutally. They're lucky they're getting such a humane treatment honestly >_> I can't imagine how the victim felt being killed...or how the loved ones feel.
> 
> ...



I don't think finding the vein must be that difficult. I don't know for darker skin people, but for lighter skin tones, on the wrist, we can see the blue veins. You just can't miss them!


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## ThomasNLD (Jul 15, 2014)

I`m against the death penalty. I don`t think its a good idea to punish those who do harm against the society, by becoming an equally big monster. I have the same underbelly feelings when I hear about severe crimes in the news, but basing law and retribution on those emotions is just as misguided as the criminals who acted on them.

Not to mention it is long proven that death penalty or longer jail periods do nothing for making society safer. 
I think a couple of years ago there was an experiment in Norway with a prison on a type of island, where sentenced people just lived as a community. When they served their time, the succesrate of reintegration was much higher then the average. 

Its ridiculous anyways to think locking up the worst criminals in the world together, will result in better adjusted individuals. In many cases the wrong environment is the biggest reason they ended up committing crimes to begin with,

So a big fat no for me. For these reasons and many, many more.


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## GameLaxer (Jul 16, 2014)

JunJun said:


> This is an add on to my last post, Only if they've been proven to have committed whichever crime they're on death row for. There's a lot of people who're on/who have been on death row who were entirely innocent and that was discovered years after they'd been put to death.



Exactly. Case and point.

- - - Post Merge - - -



ThomasNLD said:


> I`m against the death penalty. I don`t think its a good idea to punish those who do harm against the society, by becoming an equally big monster. I have the same underbelly feelings when I hear about severe crimes in the news, but basing law and retribution on those emotions is just as misguided as the criminals who acted on them.
> 
> Not to mention it is long proven that death penalty or longer jail periods do nothing for making society safer.
> I think a couple of years ago there was an experiment in Norway with a prison on a type of island, where sentenced people just lived as a community. When they served their time, the succesrate of reintegration was much higher then the average.
> ...



Very nicely put. I concur.


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## Heisenberg (Jul 16, 2014)

It's kinda ironic because I've been watching Scared Straight for like the past week so you always get the media version of prison as this rotten iron grip of a place. But in reality it isn't always the case and it bothers me that some people who have been in jail do crimes just to get back in. It's so cushy for people; tv, gym, meals, bed. My academic adviser who used to work in a prison straight up told me that the jail she worked at basically had prisoners living in dorm room-esque cells. She had chitchats with a murder on a daily who was allowed to roam most of the prison without strict supervision, oh and he even managed to order a pizza during the superbowl one year. Plus it's become so much about the comfort of these people that homeless people make prison a goal location because heck, free food, free beds, free AC over being homeless? The current system I think promotes crime. 
Now I've lived in Texas my whole life...so I firmly believe in the death penalty. Although I do admit to hesitation when it comes to children cases. Like the girls who stabbed their friend over slenderman; they clearly were beyond the goals of rehab, but I think I'd still give them a few years chance since they're kids. (This is only in the case that the other girl died- did she? I didn't see the updates). Yet, the lack of remorse was just so strong that I admit my blood boiled. I mean, they had the murder premeditated for months upon months and the amount of wounds were clearly malicious. So I am mixed on cases of children.


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## GameLaxer (Jul 16, 2014)

Heisenberg said:


> It's kinda ironic because I've been watching Scared Straight for like the past week so you always get the media version of prison as this rotten iron grip of a place. But in reality it isn't always the case and it bothers me that some people who have been in jail do crimes just to get back in. It's so cushy for people; tv, gym, meals, bed. My academic adviser who used to work in a prison straight up told me that the jail she worked at basically had prisoners living in dorm room-esque cells. She had chitchats with a murder on a daily who was allowed to roam most of the prison without strict supervision, oh and he even managed to order a pizza during the superbowl one year. Plus it's become so much about the comfort of these people that homeless people make prison a goal location because heck, free food, free beds, free AC over being homeless? The current system I think promotes crime.
> Now I've lived in Texas my whole life...so I firmly believe in the death penalty. Although I do admit to hesitation when it comes to children cases. Like the girls who stabbed their friend over slenderman; they clearly were beyond the goals of rehab, but I think I'd still give them a few years chance since they're kids. (This is only in the case that the other girl died- did she? I didn't see the updates). Yet, the lack of remorse was just so strong that I admit my blood boiled. I mean, they had the murder premeditated for months upon months and the amount of wounds were clearly malicious. So I am mixed on cases of children.



Hmm...well perhaps the lax nature of prisons is one of the problems that entice people to commit crimes if they know about it, as you said. There has to be a way to stop the cycle before it reaches the point of actual crime and processing an accused criminal in order to prevent overcrowding. Also, there is a big difference between going to jail for a petty crime or relatively "minor" felony and 1st degree murder, so I do see your point on that matter as well. It's definitely a difficult question, but there is a chance that a person could be falsely accused...and if that person is killed under the Death Penalty...then what does that make the Justice System? it's not justice...it's murder all over again.


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## Qwerty111 (Jul 16, 2014)

No.

I guess the repeat murderers maybe, also rapists. but first time murderers? no


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## ThomasNLD (Jul 16, 2014)

In Holland the prisons are even more "luxurious" then in America. TV, game console, etc. However, they allowed civilians to spend a day in jail and they were absolutely shocked by the massive impact it had on their emotional wellbeing. Even when you have relative freedom to roam the prison, your still locked up, that does a lot to a human psyche. Maybe when your locked away for years, after a while it kinda stumps, as in gets normal. But thats a much bigger problem then prisons being to kind on criminals. 

Its weird to me people would therefore willingly commit crimes just to get in prison. Instead of investigating the fortunate side of prison, maybe we should investigate the unfortunate side of getting out of prison? You are branded for life, you will suffer (depeinding on the crime you have done) consequences from it for the rest of your life. Not just social relationships with family and friends, but also careerwise. Not to mention you probably don`t come out of a prison a better person, after having spend years with huge criminals and very little positive social contact.

I don`t know, its so easy to say life in prison is "easy". I think there are a lot more forces at hand here. 

When you compare it to people who are homeless, its kinda sad. Those people should be helped. They deserve better and when jail is the best option for them, something is wrong with the system. There should be shelter, food and guidance. They shouldn`t have to throw away their life values, just to have a warm place to sleep and have something to eat. 

But I was raised in The Netherlands, which is pretty much the exact opposite of Texas I reckon.


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## GameLaxer (Jul 16, 2014)

ThomasNLD said:


> In Holland the prisons are even more "luxurious" then in America. TV, game console, etc. However, they allowed civilians to spend a day in jail and they were absolutely shocked by the massive impact it had on their emotional wellbeing. Even when you have relative freedom to roam the prison, your still locked up, that does a lot to a human psyche. Maybe when your locked away for years, after a while it kinda stumps, as in gets normal. But thats a much bigger problem then prisons being to kind on criminals.
> 
> Its weird to me people would therefore willingly commit crimes just to get in prison. Instead of investigating the fortunate side of prison, maybe we should investigate the unfortunate side of getting out of prison? You are branded for life, you will suffer (depeinding on the crime you have done) consequences from it for the rest of your life. Not just social relationships with family and friends, but also careerwise. Not to mention you probably don`t come out of a prison a better person, after having spend years with huge criminals and very little positive social contact.
> 
> ...



There was a study...I think at Stanford University I want to say...Maybe Yale...I'm not sure, but a very prestigious university, where a professor created an experiment with students. he assigned certain students to be prisoners and some to be wardens in a fake prison setting. It took only a few days for the "wardens" to dehumanize the "prisoners" and even though the study was completely voluntary, the "prisoners" had break downs because they were abused by the "wardens" and felt like they were in an actual prison. The damage that prison does to one's psyche is horrible, and that is terrible suffering. If anything, rehabilitation, education, and psychiatric services should be required in prisons in order to avoid the Death Penalty and try to reintegrate prisoners into society. Otherwise, it's as if we we're treating prisoners like they're less than human. Yes, murderers are horrible people, but people do horrible things all of the time. An act does not define a person if they want to change their life around and if that one act is not the summary of their life. A person is more complex than a sentencing or an act. Using the Death Penalty and leaving prisoners to do whatever they want in prisons probably reinforces the idea that their crime defines who they are. Perhaps a different perspective on themselves and on others, as well as society as a whole, could make a huge difference in some. Of course, in others, there may be little hope (such as psychopaths, etc.).


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## ThomasNLD (Jul 16, 2014)

GameLaxer said:


> There was a study...I think at Stanford University I want to say...Maybe Yale...I'm not sure, but a very prestigious university, where a professor created an experiment with students. he assigned certain students to be prisoners and some to be wardens in a fake prison setting. It took only a few days for the "wardens" to dehumanize the "prisoners" and even though the study was completely voluntary, the "prisoners" had break downs because they were abused by the "wardens" and felt like they were in an actual prison. The damage that prison does to one's psyche is horrible, and that is terrible suffering. If anything, rehabilitation, education, and psychiatric services should be required in prisons in order to avoid the Death Penalty and try to reintegrate prisoners into society. Otherwise, it's as if we we're treating prisoners like they're less than human. Yes, murderers are horrible people, but people do horrible things all of the time. An act does not define a person if they want to change their life around and if that one act is not the summary of their life. A person is more complex than a sentencing or an act. Using the Death Penalty and leaving prisoners to do whatever they want in prisons probably reinforces the idea that their crime defines who they are. Perhaps a different perspective on themselves and on others, as well as society as a whole, could make a huge difference in some. Of course, in others, there may be little hope (such as psychopaths, etc.).



Yeah I agree with you. I btw heard of that experiment as well. I also agree psychiatric help is in many cases not only desirable, but needed. You don`t just do that for the criminals, but also for the society as a whole. What they say: "society is defined by how you treat the people at the bottom of it" (something like that, makes perfect sense to me. It sort of gives the most basic of (moral) rules to a society, which gives people a sense of safety and security. When you overstep those boundaries when dealing with criminals, terrorists, etc, you don`t only give a signal to them, but to the entire society. It undermines it. 

When it comes to psychopaths (Timothy McVeigh comes to mind), its a difficult story. Those are the criminals that wake up my underbelly so to speak. When confronted I just want them gone, but that would also be overstepping the boundary. In the end its just to important to stay recognizable and close to what you (as a society) believe in. 

But its difficult, some crimes just baffle me. I try not to Judge to hard, since there are Always circumstances I as an outsider can`t see. But still, some just make such a big emotional impact its hard to deal with it.


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## GameLaxer (Jul 16, 2014)

ThomasNLD said:


> Yeah I agree with you. I btw heard of that experiment as well. I also agree psychiatric help is in many cases not only desirable, but needed. You don`t just do that for the criminals, but also for the society as a whole. What they say: "society is defined by how you treat the people at the bottom of it" (something like that, makes perfect sense to me. It sort of gives the most basic of (moral) rules to a society, which gives people a sense of safety and security. When you overstep those boundaries when dealing with criminals, terrorists, etc, you don`t only give a signal to them, but to the entire society. It undermines it.
> 
> When it comes to psychopaths (Timothy McVeigh comes to mind), its a difficult story. Those are the criminals that wake up my underbelly so to speak. When confronted I just want them gone, but that would also be overstepping the boundary. In the end its just to important to stay recognizable and close to what you (as a society) believe in.
> 
> But its difficult, some crimes just baffle me. I try not to Judge to hard, since there are Always circumstances I as an outsider can`t see. But still, some just make such a big emotional impact its hard to deal with it.



Exactly. I like what you said about how society is defined by how it treats the people at the bottom. If that's any indication of America...then I don't know exactly what kind of society we are promoting...


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## DarkOnyx (Jul 16, 2014)

I don't agree.The whole process is just not executed very well.Sometimes they accidently arrest the wrong person and kill them,or something goes wrong...If they change the way they do it a bit,and not sometimes kill innocent people who were wrongly accuesed,then it would be better.


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## Caius (Jul 16, 2014)

If you've ever been in jail before, you'd probably have a different opinion about the death penalty. It's not pleasant.


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## baller (Jul 16, 2014)

sharkystriker22 said:


> I don't agree.The whole process is just not executed very well.



ahahaha very clever i see wat u did there


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## kittenrobotarmy (Jul 16, 2014)

That really depends. If these days jail is becoming a hotel, something needs to change. Criminals need to understand that what they are doing is WRONG, and they're being rewarded for it in some places around the world because of the things that are in jails today.


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## KCourtnee (Jul 16, 2014)

I agree with the death penalty. I live in a state where it still exists, too. So I'm all for it


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## Brackets (Jul 16, 2014)

I don't think anyone who's been in jail thinks it's like a hotel
yeh they have stuff to do, but they're not FREE that's the point


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## PaperLuigi3 (Jul 16, 2014)

If you kill someone without reason, you should be killed. Unless it was threatening your life, such as in times of war or in a home invasion, then you don't have a reason to do murder someone.

Kill =/= murder. Killing is in self defense. Murder is unprovoked.


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## GameLaxer (Jul 16, 2014)

PaperLuigi3 said:


> If you kill someone without reason, you should be killed. Unless it was threatening your life, such as in times of war or in a home invasion, then you don't have a reason to do murder someone.
> 
> Kill =/= murder. Killing is in self defense. Murder is unprovoked.



But the death penalty is not killing in self-defense. Also, murder can be provoked. That's manslaughter or considered 2nd degree murder. 1st degree murder is premeditated. There are different levels in the justice system. 

I have an issue if someone is falsely accused of committing such a crime and yet they are innocent, and then killed under the death penalty. What do you call that then? The killing of an innocent person? That could be considered premeditated murder itself, not to mention a clear flaw in the justice system. There is always that possibility...and for that, I cannot support such an absolute punishment.


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## ThomasNLD (Jul 16, 2014)

PaperLuigi3 said:


> If you kill someone without reason, you should be killed. Unless it was threatening your life, such as in times of war or in a home invasion, then you don't have a reason to do murder someone.
> 
> Kill =/= murder. Killing is in self defense. Murder is unprovoked.



Its often not that simple. What if that person was under the influence of something? What if that person has a mental illness which caused the murder? What reasons are valid and which aren`t? When is it considered self defence and when abundant use of force?

Its often not so black and white. I mean, I don`t believe in the "eye for an eye" concept but many people do and thats ofcourse fine, but how often can you truly compare such murder cases? 

Not to mention death penalties should atleast be done in as much of a humane way as possible, quite often thats not the case with lethal injection, let alone the electric chair and crap like that.


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## LinDUNguin (Jul 19, 2014)

The process of putting someone to death is much more expensive because of all the payments that need to be made (lawyers, judges, those who actually have to go through the paper work of putting someone to death), not because the actual action of killing someone is expensive. Much more effort and money is put into it because there is a life at stake. You could argue that we just spend less money on lawyers and if someone deserves the death penalty they just get it and don't get the right to plea (severely cutting costs), but that runs the risk of unjustly executing innocent people. I don't think that's a risk anyone would be willing to take to save a few tens of thousands of dollars. Plus, due to the plea system, there are people who've been wrongly incarcerated that have been proven innocent after the fact, so it's a tried and true system.


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