# Healthcare



## Soda Fox (Jun 12, 2017)

I thought it might be interesting to talk about our opinions on healthcare. I think we'll keep it civil - heck we were civil in the gun thread!

Anyway I'm in the US and the only reason I'm against our ACA is because most people I know have been negatively effected by it. I have met one person who was positively effected (other than strangers on the internet). I get healthcare through my employer so it really doesn't make a difference to me. I do hate seeing most of my customers lose their homes or have to put off having kids or choosing insurance or food and not really getting a choice once it comes to tax time. 

This discussion is for anyone from any country so be respectful of other opinions.


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## visibleghost (Jun 12, 2017)

universal healthcare is a human right and no one should have to suffer from bad mental, dental or physical problems because they cannot afford the cost of the treatment.


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## Corrie (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm in Canada so I get free healthcare!

Edit: it doesn't include dental, eyecare or drug plans. I gotta pay that myself.


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## visibleghost (Jun 12, 2017)

Corrie said:


> I'm in Canada so I get free healthcare!
> 
> Edit: it doesn't include dental, eyecare or drug plans. I gotta pay that myself.



healthcare isn't 100% free in sweden either but it is free for all minors and for adults you only pay a little because it is funded by taxes. and prescription drugs can cost up to a certain amount of money per family and year, after that you get the rest for free. also a lot of medicines for minors are free and you can get completely free birth control (at least if you're under 18, i have no idea what it is like for adults because i don't know anyone who's older than 18 and talks about it w me hahah)

the point imo isn't that you shouldn't have to pay a single cent (even though that would be nice), but everyone should be able to afford healthcare (and if they don't the government should pay for it) and that you shouldn't be able to buy better healthcare because you have more money than other people.

edit: here's stuff about what healthcare costs in sweden it's in english and it's probably a lot better at explaining than my uninformed rambling is
https://www.1177.se/Other-languages/Engelska/Regler-och-rattigheter/Patientavgifter/
edit2: some more: https://www.1177.se/Other-languages...-om-man-ar-asylsokande-gomd-eller-papperslos/
https://www.1177.se/Other-languages/Engelska/Regler-och-rattigheter/Vad-kostar-lakemedel-pa-recept/

this one is in swedish but it basically says that it's free for people under 21, you can get financial aid and that you pay a big part of the cost urself but that there are alternatives that u can get if u cant afford it. also it says that the cost depends on how expensive it is, how old u are and what kind of treatment u need.

https://www.1177.se/Regler-och-rattigheter/Vad-kostar-tandvard/


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## Rizies (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm in Canada so we have free healthcare. I also have my own benefits and husband's benefits to cover dental and eyes.


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## Alolan_Apples (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm actually against all forms of socialized medicine, including Universal Healthcare, Obamacare, and the AHCA. It doesn't matter who's paying for whom, but the government needs to stay out of healthcare. Government-funded healthcare is fine, but government management of it is not. Healthcare should be capitalistic, which also means that people have the right to choose what hospitals they can go to and what doctors they get.

The government should also not take control of insurance companies because when they do, the companies start abusing doctors. When you abuse workers, they go on strike. But doctors can't ethically go on strike, so it's allowing insurance companies to continue abusing them until they withdraw from the government.


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## deSPIRIA (Jun 12, 2017)

here i get free medication and i can have a checkup im able to. it makes me really sad when i hear about people in other countries talking about having to stop paying for life insurance for their loved ones in critical condition.
i also was worried a few days ago since if theresa may was in control she would have taken the NHS down BUT it turns out to be a fake viral post so hooooo


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## forestyne (Jun 12, 2017)

i... think the nhs is still free. so woo, free health care.


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## visibleghost (Jun 12, 2017)

Alolan_Apples said:


> I'm actually against all forms of socialized medicine, including Universal Healthcare, Obamacare, and the AHCA. It doesn't matter who's paying for whom, but the government needs to stay out of healthcare. Government-funded healthcare is fine, but government management of it is not. Healthcare should be capitalistic, which also means that people have the right to choose what hospitals they can go to and what doctors they get.
> 
> The government should also not take control of insurance companies because when they do, the companies start abusing doctors. When you abuse workers, they go on strike. But doctors can't ethically go on strike, so it's allowing insurance companies to continue abusing them until they withdraw from the government.



capitalistic healthcare kills people


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## forestyne (Jun 12, 2017)

But I believe that nobody should have to suffer because they can't afford healthcare. It's greedy to make people pay for healthcare when they pay things like taxes.

- - - Post Merge - - -

Under the NHS, children and pensioners get the free dental stuff. I don't need glasses so I don't know how the rest of the NHS works, as I was under CAMHS for my counselling and therapy.


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## dizzy bone (Jun 12, 2017)

I haven't had health insurance for most of my life, even as a kid :/


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## Relly (Jun 12, 2017)

I believe that healthcare should be free to the point of use for everyone


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## Bowie (Jun 12, 2017)

Everyone should have free healthcare. But, I believe that it could only work if it were only for certain people.

So, if you're close to death because you decided to do something stupid like drive drunk or take an overdose or anything self-inflicted, you would have to pay. A small amount, perhaps, but you'd have to pay.

I think it should all depend on the person. That way they can save money, and only the people who really need help will get free help.


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## Soigne (Jun 12, 2017)

I've always had healthcare because of my parents' jobs, but I think healthcare should be free.


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## Romaki (Jun 12, 2017)

Yes, here we pay for our health insurance as it's a law to have it here. We have a social security system here that also includes long-time care, retirement, accidents and unemployment. It's automatically taken off your pay check, but you only have to pay if you make enough money. Idk, the last time I was in a hospital (one week) was in 2007 and my mom almost died (two weeks in hospital) in 2011 and neither of those incidents did anything to our financial situation or left us in debt.

So I'd have to tick Yes and No (Government), since it's money that never made it into my pockets in the first place, and if I didn't have the ability to earn a pay check it would still be paid.


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## SensaiGallade (Jun 12, 2017)

Healthcare is free here in the UK due to the NHS, but the Prime Minister, Theresa May wants to privitise it, essentially ridding it completely to the public, which is such an irrational and stupid decision. Right now, healthcare is free to all; dental care and opticians is free for under 18's I think as well as others such as the disabled and such. 

Correct me if I'm wrong please any UK residents


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## Miii (Jun 12, 2017)

I don't have insurance at the moment, but I do _not_ believe free healthcare should exist. You simply aren't entitled to someone else's time and services, even if it benefits you. _Someone_ provides that service and should be paid by the person they're providing the service to, not by everyone via taxation. I'm not responsible for anyone but myself and any children I bring into this world (or any people I choose to take responsibility for).

Another reason I'm against free healthcare is that it gives the government even more control over your life. When the government ensures that you have health insurance, they also get to dictate which healthcare providers you can visit, what medications you can take, etc. Additionally when the government subsidizes healthcare, it guarantees healthcare providers essentially as much money as they want. They're paid in tax dollars no matter what, meaning they're free to raise their prices, whereas in the free market, healthcare providers have to keep their prices affordable or they risk losing out to competitors. The same can be said for the government subsidizing higher education.

Maybe it's just me, but I think you should WORK for the things you want in life, rather than expecting handouts from everyone around you. Call me old fashioned.


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## Foreversacredx (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm from England so healthcare is free XD


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## Soda Fox (Jun 12, 2017)

Miii said:


> I don't have insurance at the moment, but I do _not_ believe free healthcare should exist. You simply aren't entitled to someone else's time and services, even if it benefits you. _Someone_ provides that service and should be paid by the person they're providing the service to, not by everyone via taxation. I'm not responsible for anyone but myself and any children I bring into this world (or any people I choose to take responsibility for).
> 
> Another reason I'm against free healthcare is that it gives the government even more control over your life. When the government ensures that you have health insurance, they also get to dictate which healthcare providers you can visit, what medications you can take, etc. Additionally when the government subsidizes healthcare, it guarantees healthcare providers essentially as much money as they want. They're paid in tax dollars no matter what, meaning they're free to raise their prices, whereas in the free market, healthcare providers have to keep their prices affordable or they risk losing out to competitors. The same can be said for the government subsidizing higher education.
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but I think you should WORK for the things you want in life, rather than expecting handouts from everyone around you. Call me old fashioned.



Not to mention that, at least until we get some laws in place to prevent it, a lot of that tax money can then go to paying for god-awful medical ads that shouldn't exist. And unless we get a statement of the exact break down on how our taxes are working for us there'd be no way for us to tell if we're actually helping those in need or just lining some fat cat pockets.

I do like Bowie's idea to an extent - if your healthcare is paid for you you need to follow some strict rules or have it taken away for unhealthy actions. But on the flip side I don't really want anyone telling me how to live my life and I don't want to tell others to live their's, so I'd rather just everyone pays their own way and is free to do what they want with their bodies.


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## Gregriii (Jun 12, 2017)

I kind of agree on having to pay for a healthcare but like people who can't afford it can't be left to die you know?

like I agree with Mii but also w visibleghost


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## Miii (Jun 12, 2017)

Gregriii said:


> I kind of agree on having to pay for a healthcare but like people who can't afford it can't be left to die you know?
> 
> like I agree with Mii but also w visibleghost



People that can't afford to pay now aren't left to die in the US. There are charities that raise money for those people and I would much rather invest in a non-profit organization than government subsidized healthcare. Charities only make money when they get results; if a charity uses their donations in a way the donors see unfit, they lose funding and fail as a charity. The government forces you, and every other tax payer to fund their "charitable" cause, whether you get the results you want to see or not. That's theft no matter how you phrase it.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Bowie said:


> Everyone should have free healthcare. But, I believe that it could only work if it were only for certain people.
> 
> So, if you're close to death because you decided to do something stupid like drive drunk or take an overdose or anything self-inflicted, you would have to pay. A small amount, perhaps, but you'd have to pay.
> 
> I think it should all depend on the person. That way they can save money, and only the people who really need help will get free help.



Something like that might have some positive impact, but you also have to consider how much of the taxpayers money would go to paper pushing and determining whether or not someone deserved to have the government foot the bill for their medical costs, rather than actually helping people.

And a system like that poses a lot of questions. What criteria do people have to meet to get their bills paid for? Do preventable injuries count? Do conditions like diabetes that you can be genetically predisposed to, but are mostly caused by poor diet and lack of exercise count? What portion of the taxpayers money should go to those that inflict poor health or injuries upon themselves? Are there any instances in which a person that couldn't afford to pay their own bills would be turned away?

I could go on, but you get the point.


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## helenkeller (Jun 12, 2017)

I have insurance until I am 26 with Anthem. (which isn't bad)
I get to go to the doctors for 25 dollars whenever I am sick and I get to go to the OBGYN once a year for free, same goes with the dentist but twice a year. I can get new glasses covered by insurance once every 2 years.


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## nintendofan85 (Jun 12, 2017)

I have health insurance from my parents.
I personally saw the ACA as flawed, although I do support government-run healthcare. However, the ACA is no doubt much better than Trumpcare, which was thankfully defeated by Congress.


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## helenkeller (Jun 12, 2017)

I don't want to sound like an ass, because not everybody has insurance. But, factories give insurance, walmart, meijer. They all have health plans. It really isn't that hard to get decent insurance.

Just urine clean of drugs, or have clean hair follicles and you should be good to go, to get into a factory. 
This might just be Ohio, but even the poorest people I know have health care, they get it for free because it is obvious that they cannot afford it. But that might only be if you're a senior, veteran, or have children. I know someone who gets to go to the doctor to get something as dumb as a skin tag removed for free, even though she can do it herself.... And skin tags aren't harmful. ****,  bet she could get her toes clipped for free at a foot doctor lmaoooo. But I had to wait when I had an infection. She sits on her ass and does nothing and has multiple kids with knowing the dad WILL NOT be there, but she can get whatever for free. My dad worked his ass off for 30 years and when he was laid off he was being paid 30$ an hour and I still don't get it that good... lmaoooooooo.

Obama care, there is a catch to it. Like to pay for it, it is cheap. YES, but, to go to the ER it will still be 400$....... Doctors appointments will still be 100..or 200.. whatever your doctor charges.

It is different in every state though. It def isn't hard in ohio to get healthcare. I am not sure about anywhere else.

- - - Post Merge - - -

If everyone had free health care wouldn't that be kinda harsh on taxes? Like... wouldn't they sky rocket? I am not sure how that works.


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## Soot Sprite (Jun 12, 2017)

helenkeller said:


> I don't want to sound like an ass, because not everybody has insurance. But, factories give insurance, walmart, meijer. They all have health plans. It really isn't that hard to get decent insurance.
> 
> Just urine clean of drugs, or have clean hair follicles and you should be good to go, to get into a factory.



Lots of places offer health insurance, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll get it. It's not about finding a job that gives good insurance. I used to get great health insurance from where I work but then my manager cut everyone's hours to the point where now only three workers are qualified to be offered health insurance. I usually am just one hour to a half an hour shy of getting insurance from work. The health insurance wasn't cheap, but it was way cheaper than paying a few hundred dollars to go to a doctor.

I'm not saying it should be free. if you go to the doctor you're paying them for a service so it's only fair to pay at least a little copay. Private insurance is expensive and I've been without it for a long time because I either couldn't afford it or didn't have the opportunity to get it at work.


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## helenkeller (Jun 12, 2017)

Kyoko said:


> Lots of places offer health insurance, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll get it. It's not about finding a job that gives good insurance. I used to get great health insurance from where I work but then my manager cut everyone's hours to the point where now only three workers are qualified to be offered health insurance. I usually am just one hour to a half an hour shy of getting insurance from work. The health insurance wasn't cheap, but it was way cheaper than paying a few hundred dollars to go to a doctor.
> 
> I'm not saying it should be free. if you go to the doctor you're paying them for a service so it's only fair to pay at least a little copay. Private insurance is expensive and I've been without it for a long time because I either couldn't afford it or didn't have the opportunity to get it at work.



See, your situation is different. You are obviously a working class citizen, from what I have seen by all of your posts and comments on here before. Some people are extremely lazy and entitled to free insurance. Especially people who intentionally keep having kids they cannot afford, or people who are just too damn lazy to get a job. Or some people simply do not want to better themselves. My ex boyfriends mother is a high school drop out, has three kids with two different fathers, she works at a fast food place(that just rehired her after she was fired for something v bad), and refuses to get a GED when she is obviously not that stupid. She has helped me with my homework before, and the grade she helped me with, was after she even dropped out. She is just lazy and has no motivation but she can go to the hospital whenever(only if needed, then the government will cover it), she can get meds whenever, all because she has three kids she just started caring for a number of years ago..... Her mom was doing it. She gets welfare, food stamps... She even uses her food stamps for dumb stuff like candy, pop, **** that isn't even food, and will use welfare for cigarettes and pills to buy off the streets. People are def being enabled. My comment really only applies to people who don't work or do anything, or people who just refuse to stay dead end for years and do nothing about it. Because if healthcare was free, that would sky rocket taxes, and hard working americans would have to pay for a lot of non hard working people.
Great mooch examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzSkSewywlc (hes still @ it, he was on my 600lb life this yr)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNucI0CXijU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBqjZ0KZCa0


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## Oblivia (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm in the U.S., and yes, I pay for my own healthcare/insurance.


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## Soot Sprite (Jun 13, 2017)

helenkeller said:


> See, your situation is different. You are obviously a working class citizen, from what I have seen by all of your posts and comments on here before. Some people are extremely lazy and entitled to free insurance. Especially people who intentionally keep having kids they cannot afford, or people who are just too damn lazy to get a job. Or some people simply do not want to better themselves. My ex boyfriends mother is a high school drop out, has three kids with two different fathers, she works at a fast food place(that just rehired her after she was fired for something v bad), and refuses to get a GED when she is obviously not that stupid. She has helped me with my homework before, and the grade she helped me with, was after she even dropped out. She is just lazy and has no motivation but she can go to the hospital whenever(only if needed, then the government will cover it), she can get meds whenever, all because she has three kids she just started caring for a number of years ago..... Her mom was doing it. She gets welfare, food stamps... She even uses her food stamps for dumb stuff like candy, pop, **** that isn't even food, and will use welfare for cigarettes and pills to buy off the streets. People are def being enabled. My comment really only applies to people who don't work or do anything, or people who just refuse to stay dead end for years and do nothing about it. Because if healthcare was free, that would sky rocket taxes, and hard working americans would have to pay for a lot of non hard working people.
> Great mooch examples:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzSkSewywlc (hes still @ it, he was on my 600lb life this yr)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNucI0CXijU
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBqjZ0KZCa0



I actually agree with what you're saying. I don't think someone who isn't putting in work deserves to get benefits. Like you said, a lot of places do offer good insurance. Some people just won't put the effort into finding a job. Free healthcare would skyrocket taxes and even if I don't have it I also don't want to pay for someone else's because they won't get a job. I have very little respect for someone who just coasts off the government. If you have kids you know you can't afford and have them anyway to get more benefits that's even worse. I'm all for equality and fairness but if you want to expect certain things from the government you need to be putting in work to get it.


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## AnimalCrossingPerson (Jun 13, 2017)

In the UK here, so free free free! Shame about the VAT, though, so... "free".


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## Sin (Jun 13, 2017)

if it wasnt for the ACA id probably be dead, so...


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## LambdaDelta (Jun 13, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> capitalistic healthcare kills people



capitalism kills people


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## Mu~ (Jun 13, 2017)

Free healthcare for everyone here, even for the unemployed.


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## Stalfos (Jun 13, 2017)

LambdaDelta said:


> capitalism kills people



Capitalism is cannibalism.


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## carp (Jun 13, 2017)

i don't pay and i dont have health insurance


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## forestyne (Jun 13, 2017)

Didn't think people could actually disagree with free healthcare.


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## Relly (Jun 13, 2017)

forestyne said:


> Didn't think people could actually disagree with free healthcare.



I find the mentality really strange. But idk I think here we just take advantage that we have universal healthcare and if we get a poor wage and get sick we don't have to worry about if our insurance covers it or how much its going to cost.


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## forestyne (Jun 13, 2017)

Relly said:


> I find the mentality really strange. But idk I think here we just take advantage that we have universal healthcare and if we get a poor wage and get sick we don't have to worry about if our insurance covers it or how much its going to cost.



Yeah I guess people from different countries have different mindsets to people who live differently.


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## Relly (Jun 13, 2017)

forestyne said:


> Yeah I guess people from different countries have different mindsets to people who live differently.



Yep...I'm happy we have the NHS and I'm doing everything in my power to save it.


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## Alolan_Apples (Jun 13, 2017)

Relly said:


> I find the mentality really strange. But idk I think here we just take advantage that we have universal healthcare and if we get a poor wage and get sick we don't have to worry about if our insurance covers it or how much its going to cost.



The problem is, there is no such thing as free healthcare. To pass something like this, we have to raise taxes, not just the cost of living, but also taxes on the money you make. Regardless of intentions, it's a bad idea to take money away from those who work hard for it (unless if they're using it to spend on property, merchandise, or whatever, but if they're not spending on anything by choice, you shouldn't charge them for what they make) and give it to those who don't work (especially if they don't want to work). Some people don't have to pay for their own healthcare, but that means somebody else (who's not even related) will have to pay for their healthcare. If you villify people who are against free healthcare, then you have a problem.

And no, I'm not saying that you are villifying people for opposing free healthcare, but you find it mentally strange.


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## Jared:3 (Jun 13, 2017)

Yup I may be only 14 but my mom already has insurance for me so I'm set


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## Relly (Jun 13, 2017)

My taxes go towards healthcare and I'm happy with that situation  I don't think the USA will ever have universal healthcare and if that's how they like it then that's fine 

- - - Post Merge - - -

Also its a bit different to me, like I can understand what you are saying for you guys taxes would change and I can see why that would upset people. For me I've always paid NI since I started working and Me and my parents and my grand parents have never known any different than to pay NI. So I can respect where you are coming from.


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## forestyne (Jun 13, 2017)

Alolan_Apples said:


> The problem is, there is no such thing as free healthcare. To pass something like this, we have to raise taxes, not just the cost of living, but also taxes on the money you make. Regardless of intentions, it's a bad idea to take money away from those who work hard for it (unless if they're using it to spend on property, merchandise, or whatever, but if they're not spending on anything by choice, you shouldn't charge them for what they make) and give it to those who don't work (especially if they don't want to work). Some people don't have to pay for their own healthcare, but that means somebody else (who's not even related) will have to pay for their healthcare. If you villify people who are against free healthcare, then you have a problem.
> 
> And no, I'm not saying that you are villifying people for opposing free healthcare, but you find it mentally strange.



We've had free healthcare for decades and we're doing just fine.

- - - Post Merge - - -

A rich old geezer shouldn't be entitled to choose who lives and who dies because he doesn't want his taxes to pay for a dying child's healthcare.

Millions of people are happy for their taxes to go towards the healthcare of someone who needs it.


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## Alolan_Apples (Jun 13, 2017)

Relly said:


> My taxes go towards healthcare and I'm happy with that situation  I don't think the USA will ever have universal healthcare and if that's how they like it then that's fine
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> Also its a bit different to me, like I can understand what you are saying for you guys taxes would change and I can see why that would upset people. For me I've always paid NI since I started working and Me and my parents and my grand parents have never known any different than to pay NI. So I can respect where you are coming from.



Yep, I'm more about freedom of choice, responsibility, and less interference with government. I would never oppose free healthcare for the reason being that only some people should survive. I don't want the poor to be sick either. But they have to realize that no system is perfect, top reason being human nature. Socialized medicine may eventually fail like communism had, but capitalism ain't perfect either.


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## phietle (Jun 13, 2017)

I'm british, so because of our NHS, never had to pay for healthcare in my life! I'm so greatful, I'm type 1 diabetic and have been since i was 3, so if my family had to pay we'd be bankrupt


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## visibleghost (Jun 13, 2017)

Bowie said:


> Everyone should have free healthcare. But, I believe that it could only work if it were only for certain people.
> 
> So, if you're close to death because you decided to do something stupid like drive drunk or take an overdose or anything self-inflicted, you would have to pay. A small amount, perhaps, but you'd have to pay.
> 
> I think it should all depend on the person. That way they can save money, and only the people who really need help will get free help.



do you understand that you're basically saying "if youre mentally ill **** you" bc, like.. youre kinda doing that

 people can choose a lot of things but just because they made a bad decision doesnt mean that society should abandon them and be like "lol u only have urself 2 blame!!" .
like, this is honestly one of the worst suggestions i've heard lmao it targets people who are already a bit outside society and in need of help. should we be like "nah you fell out of that tree because you were clumsy so you deserve to have a broken arm lol" or is that okay because it's an arm that's broken and not a mind?
sure drunk driving is not okay and people shouldn't do it but people deserve to have access to healthcare no matter how they got injured. 




Miii said:


> I don't have insurance at the moment, but I do _not_ believe free healthcare should exist. You simply aren't entitled to someone else's time and services, even if it benefits you. _Someone_ provides that service and should be paid by the person they're providing the service to, not by everyone via taxation. I'm not responsible for anyone but myself and any children I bring into this world (or any people I choose to take responsibility for).
> 
> Another reason I'm against free healthcare is that it gives the government even more control over your life. When the government ensures that you have health insurance, they also get to dictate which healthcare providers you can visit, what medications you can take, etc. Additionally when the government subsidizes healthcare, it guarantees healthcare providers essentially as much money as they want. They're paid in tax dollars no matter what, meaning they're free to raise their prices, whereas in the free market, healthcare providers have to keep their prices affordable or they risk losing out to competitors. The same can be said for the government subsidizing higher education.
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but I think you should WORK for the things you want in life, rather than expecting handouts from everyone around you. Call me old fashioned.



it's not being "entitled to someone else's time and services" lmao people deserve to live and the government has to make things like healthcare and education available to everyone. free healthcare doesnt mean "lol we're going 2 make doctors into slaves" it just means that everyone gets their basic human rights.
and what you're saying w them getting paid from who theyre providing the service to ok do you think the fire department should charge you when they put out a fire that burnt down your house and do you think teachers should get paid directly from the kids lmao

the "im only responsible 4 myself n my kids" thinking is so stupid because of 50 million reasons but that's kind of off topic so dhjhgf

people shoulf have their human rights no matter what. doesnt matter if they work for them or not. w a more socialist society and government you help everyone, including urself. people who cant afford healthcare still deserve it and if youre so angry about paying for someone elses healthcare the That's Too Bad :// but people still deserve their human rights. n the only thing u need to do in order to have those rights is to be a human


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## Soda Fox (Jun 13, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> do you understand that you're basically saying "if youre mentally ill **** you" bc, like.. youre kinda doing that
> 
> people can choose a lot of things but just because they made a bad decision doesnt mean that society should abandon them and be like "lol u only have urself 2 blame!!" .
> like, this is honestly one of the worst suggestions i've heard lmao it targets people who are already a bit outside society and in need of help. should we be like "nah you fell out of that tree because you were clumsy so you deserve to have a broken arm lol" or is that okay because it's an arm that's broken and not a mind?
> ...



Humans have basic rights because other humans got together and decided what those rights should be. If a group of people disagree we converse and make compromises and sometimes those compromises will make some people angry. But other than the rights we give ourselves due to group decisions, we aren't entitled to squat. Nature/the universe doesn't care a lick about what happens to any of us.


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## Relly (Jun 13, 2017)

I agree rights are made by people, born out of humanity.


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## visibleghost (Jun 13, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> Humans have basic rights because other humans got together and decided what those rights should be. If a group of people disagree we converse and make compromises and sometimes those compromises will make some people angry. But other than the rights we give ourselves due to group decisions, we aren't entitled to squat. Nature/the universe doesn't care a lick about what happens to any of us.



-_- good luck doing everything all by urself let's start w u movinh out into the middle of nowhere, building a house and hunting/foraging/growing ur own food, i mean, u  cant rely on other people and society is Dumb right?

ibviously human rights arent a law written by nature itself that's not what i have been saying but, like, are you seriously questioning that everyone should have their basic human rights? like??? are u for Real

- - - Post Merge - - -



Relly said:


> I agree rights are made by people, born out of humanity.



yeah and laws are too so i guess it is okay to murder people and steal their stuff ?\_(ツ)_/?


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## Soda Fox (Jun 13, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> -_- good luck doing everything all by urself let's start w u movinh out into the middle of nowhere, building a house and hunting/foraging/growing ur own food, i mean, u  cant rely on other people and society is Dumb right?
> 
> ibviously human rights arent a law written by nature itself that's not what i have been saying but, like, are you seriously questioning that everyone should have their basic human rights? like??? are u for Real



I'm not arguing that we shouldn't but I'm arguing why other points of view hold just as much weight to me.

Honestly I wouldn't mind going off the grid. I think it would be fun. And I think people should have the choice to do so if they want to. My problem with socialized everything is that it makes it harder and harder too go off the grid. I just think people should have a choice and not forced to conform because someone else told them that it's the right thing to do.


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## Relly (Jun 13, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> yeah and laws are too so i guess it is okay to murder people and steal their stuff ?\_(ツ)_/?



You got me all wrong. I'm a very big believer in human rights and humanity. I consider myself a humanitarian.


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## visibleghost (Jun 13, 2017)

Soda Fox said:


> I'm not arguing that we shouldn't but I'm arguing why other points of view hold just as much weight to me.
> 
> Honestly I wouldn't mind going off the grid. I think it would be fun. And I think people should have the choice to do so if they want to. My problem with socialized everything is that it makes it harder and harder too go off the grid. I just think people should have a choice and not forced to conform because someone else told them that it's the right thing to do.



with paid healthcare: living ur life w a whole lot of possibilities that arent affected by getting affordable healthcare, but u dont have to declare bankruptcy if u get sick or break a leg or w/e
without paid healthcare: living ur life w a whole lot of possibilities but if you get sick well too bad, Die.

it doesnt affect your ability to "go off the grid" more than other things, youre just reaching. or do u think we need to destroy the government and burn down everything that makes it hard to get "off the grid"
the internet is also a big issue then !! how will u ever b able to live ur life in peace when your posts on this forum will haunt u when ure trying to harvest ur potatoes because Frick Society amirite

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Relly said:


> You got me all wrong. I'm a very big believer in human rights and humanity. I consider myself a humanitarian.



cool but why does it matter if human rights are made by humans? there's nothing political or w/e with it, it is just "hey i think all people should have a good chance to live an ok life, these things are important"


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## Relly (Jun 13, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> cool but why does it matter if human rights are made by humans? there's nothing political or w/e with it, it is just "hey i think all people should have a good chance to live an ok life, these things are important"



Personally I do not think it does matter if they are natural or human made, I was trying to make the point that rights are to do with having humanity and decency rather than make the point that they are made by people. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Miii (Jun 13, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> it's not being "entitled to someone else's time and services" lmao people deserve to live and the government has to make things like healthcare and education available to everyone. free healthcare doesnt mean "lol we're going 2 make doctors into slaves" it just means that everyone gets their basic human rights.
> and what you're saying w them getting paid from who theyre providing the service to ok do you think the fire department should charge you when they put out a fire that burnt down your house and do you think teachers should get paid directly from the kids lmao
> 
> the "im only responsible 4 myself n my kids" thinking is so stupid because of 50 million reasons but that's kind of off topic so dhjhgf
> ...



Expecting for everyone around you to pay for part of your medical bills, rather than being responsible and doing it yourself, is being entitled. If you can't afford to take care of yourself, then you aren't working hard enough, plain and simple. If you're permanently poor, it's no one's fault but your own, unless you're disabled and incapable of working, in which case, I understand, but there are disability benefits for people like that in my country, and that, I _am_ okay with funding via taxation because there's a legitimate reason to. No able bodied, mentally competent individual is incapable of making enough to afford health insurance (in America at least). 

I don't think you read why I'm against a socialist healthcare system. I don't like the idea of the government creeping it's way into every aspect of my life, because when it's in their power to be the sole provider of something, it's also in their power to completely take it away. I'm for personal accountability and "free" things take all personal accountability away from the individual. You should strive to take care of  and provide for yourself, rather than expecting anyone else to do it for you, and there's a sense of pride and independence that comes with doing that. If you want to help others, too, great; donate to a reputable charity that, again, is held accountable by the donors providing their funds. When the government forces you to pay for healthcare, you have little to no say in where your money goes, or to whom, and it doesn't matter if you like the results you see. You don't _need_ government intervention to help people.

Taking care of yourself and your family first isn't a stupid mentality (from an evolutionary standpoint, it makes total sense to take care of your family and your children, rather than taking from them to help others because it ensures that your genes are passed on, but that's not the point I'm getting at). I'd rather have extra money in my pocket to take care of the people I choose to take care of because I can personally ensure that my money goes towards actually helping someone, rather than paying someone to file paperwork that may not even lead to helping someone. I'd love to hear your 50 million reasons why it's stupid to use _your_ money that _you_ put hours of _your_ life into earning to take care of the ones you love. If you think it's too off topic for this thread, then pm me. I'm willing to have a serious conversation with you.


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## Relly (Jun 13, 2017)

"I agree rights are made by people, *born out of humanity.*" - that was me trying and failing to point out that human rights are a humanitarian issue. My bad.


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## forestyne (Jun 13, 2017)

Miii said:


> Expecting for everyone around you to pay for part of your medical bills, rather than being responsible and doing it yourself, is being entitled. If you can't afford to take care of yourself, then you aren't working hard enough, plain and simple. If you're permanently poor, it's no one's fault but your own, unless you're disabled and incapable of working, in which case, I understand, but there are disability benefits for people like that in my country, and that, I _am_ okay with funding via taxation because there's a legitimate reason to. No able bodied, mentally competent individual is incapable of making enough to afford health insurance (in America at least).
> 
> I don't think you read why I'm against a socialist healthcare system. I don't like the idea of the government creeping it's way into every aspect of my life, because when it's in their power to be the sole provider of something, it's also in their power to completely take it away. I'm for personal accountability and "free" things take all personal accountability away from the individual. You should strive to take care of  and provide for yourself, rather than expecting anyone else to do it for you, and there's a sense of pride and independence that comes with doing that. If you want to help others, too, great; donate to a reputable charity that, again, is held accountable by the donors providing their funds. When the government forces you to pay for healthcare, you have little to no say in where your money goes, or to whom, and it doesn't matter if you like the results you see. You don't _need_ government intervention to help people.
> 
> Taking care of yourself and your family first isn't a stupid mentality (from an evolutionary standpoint, it makes total sense to take care of your family and your children, rather than taking from them to help others because it ensures that your genes are passed on, but that's not the point I'm getting at). I'd rather have extra money in my pocket to take care of the people I choose to take care of because I can personally ensure that my money goes towards actually helping someone, rather than paying someone to file paperwork that may not even lead to helping someone. I'd love to hear your 50 million reasons why it's stupid to use _your_ money that _you_ put hours of _your_ life into earning to take care of the ones you love. If you think it's too off topic for this thread, then pm me. I'm willing to have a serious conversation with you.



But the thing is that we don't 'choose' to be poor. It wasn't me and my dad's fault that we were scammed into PPI, a ****ty  house that my dad can barely afford to _SELL_ as well as keep up with the mordage and bills, and that my mum ran off with my siblings and all of my dad's money. Seems very offensive to say that because we and many other people like me are barely surviving, we don't mean **** to you or the States, because _it was all our fault_.

- - - Post Merge - - -

Sorry that I can't help but roll my eyes, twitch and gag when I read that, but I have nearly died multiple times and I am extremely thankful for the people who have no problem with their taxes going towards the healthcare of people like me.


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## Relly (Jun 13, 2017)

I work as a support worker and earn minimum wage, I can't afford health insurance. But my job is incredibly hard, I've been bitten pinched punched, dragged to the floor by my hair and beaten to within an inch of my life. I can't afford nor do I have time to train for anything else now and no where pays a much better wage.

I pay national insurance and that is what gets my health care.


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## Miii (Jun 13, 2017)

forestyne said:


> But the thing is that we don't 'choose' to be poor. It wasn't me and my dad's fault that we were scammed into PPI, a ****ty  house that my dad can barely afford to _SELL_ as well as keep up with the mordage and bills, and that my mum ran off with my siblings and all of my dad's money. Seems very offensive to say that because we and many other people like me are barely surviving, we don't mean **** to you or the States, because _it was all our fault_.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> Sorry that I can't help but roll my eyes, twitch and gag when I read that, but I have nearly died multiple times and I am extremely thankful for the people who have no problem with their taxes going towards the healthcare of people like me.



What, do you think I grew up rich? No, I grew up quite like you, maybe even in worse conditions. I lived in a ****ty, run down, roach infested house as a child that the state of Oklahoma built on an old landfill without telling anyone (not just my house, my whole neighborhood). I got a terrible fungal infection on my scalp and other parts of my body just from playing outside.  It wasn't until my grandmother threatened to take my two brothers and I away from my mom that we moved to Texas where she lived. I had a nice life living with her for a few years, then we moved and, once again, I didn't have enough food in the house, bills went unpaid and I went without a lot of things like new clothes, new shoes, school supplies, hot water and medical care.

Why was I so poor? Because my parents were highschool dropouts that _chose_ to do meth and get ****faced every night instead of taking care of me or working someplace other than a fast food joint. My dad eventually (kind of) got his **** together and became an aircraft mechanic, but still got so drunk almost every night that he hospitalized himself after vomiting blood from all the ulcers that constantly drinking had formed in his esophagus and stomach. 

Now, I don't know you, and I don't know where exactly your parents went wrong, but you're in the situation you're in for a reason. You're just their kid so I'm not blaming you or saying you're ****. But if, for example, my boyfriend's dad can go from being a homeless 15 year old living in his truck and having to bathe in gas station bathrooms to being a self taught genius of a programmer making more than $200,000 a year and living in a 6 bedroom house, then your parents, like mine, could have tried harder and avoided the hardship and poverty they brought upon themselves. That's not easy to hear when it comes to the people you love, but the truth isn't usually easy to swallow. 

The point of that mess is that you get from life what you put into it, and no matter where you start out, there's always a way up with enough hard work and dedication. That being said, you should work hard and be responsible for yourself so you can give yourself a good life, rather than relying on others. You're capable. Your parents are capable. Work hard and you won't live the life you're living for very much longer.


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## Soot Sprite (Jun 13, 2017)

Miii said:


> The point of that mess is that you get from life what you put into it, and no matter where you start out, there's always a way up with enough hard work and dedication. That being said, you should work hard and be responsible for yourself so you can give yourself a good life, rather than relying on others. You're capable. Your parents are capable. Work hard and you won't live the life you're living for very much longer.



I don't really mean to interrupt what I see as a two person conversation as of right now but this is totally true. I'm not gonna tell you my life story but I've been taking care of myself for many years (I'll be 19 soon now) and I can say very certainly everyone is capable of changing. I went from living in a nasty apartment with six other people to renting one of my own with the person I'm engaged too. I work at a job I enjoy for the most part and I just finished my first degree. Being responsible and actually putting effort into making changes makes all the difference. No as a child you don't choose to be poor, but it's something you have to deal with. But you have absolutely no excuse to complain about being poor when you're an adult if you're not trying. An adult needs to be taking care of themselves and I don't think everyone should just be given health care. I know how much it sucks without but I'm also working my ass off to get it back. No I don't want to pay more taxes to give everyone free healthcare even though I think everyone deserves it. I'm sure everyone feels like they deserve better than they get sometimes but you get what you work for. If you don't put in effort you don't get rewarded. If you're disabled in some way that's one thing, but if you can take care of yourself you need to. If you're having children, you need to be able to provide the best you can for them, plain and simple. Depending on the government only gives it more power than they already have.


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## moonbunny (Jun 14, 2017)

I can't think of anything better than some of my money going towards those in need.

?\_(ツ)_/?


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## Stalfos (Jun 14, 2017)

moonbunny said:


> I can't think of anything better than some of my money going towards those in need.
> 
> ?\_(ツ)_/?



Solidarity is a beautiful thing.


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## Mu~ (Jun 14, 2017)

forestyne said:


> But the thing is that we don't 'choose' to be poor. It wasn't me and my dad's fault that we were scammed into PPI, a ****ty  house that my dad can barely afford to _SELL_ as well as keep up with the mordage and bills, and that my mum ran off with my siblings and all of my dad's money. Seems very offensive to say that because we and many other people like me are barely surviving, we don't mean **** to you or the States, because _it was all our fault_.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> Sorry that I can't help but roll my eyes, twitch and gag when I read that, but I have nearly died multiple times and I am extremely thankful for the people who have no problem with their taxes going towards the healthcare of people like me.


I'd rather have my taxes invested in saving lives than used for the army which kills people in wars. Funny how I'm seeing people complain about the first thing but not the second one.


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## visibleghost (Jun 14, 2017)

Miii said:


> What, do you think I grew up rich? No, I grew up quite like you, maybe even in worse conditions. I lived in a ****ty, run down, roach infested house as a child that the state of Oklahoma built on an old landfill without telling anyone (not just my house, my whole neighborhood). I got a terrible fungal infection on my scalp and other parts of my body just from playing outside.  It wasn't until my grandmother threatened to take my two brothers and I away from my mom that we moved to Texas where she lived. I had a nice life living with her for a few years, then we moved and, once again, I didn't have enough food in the house, bills went unpaid and I went without a lot of things like new clothes, new shoes, school supplies, hot water and medical care.
> 
> Why was I so poor? Because my parents were highschool dropouts that _chose_ to do meth and get ****faced every night instead of taking care of me or working someplace other than a fast food joint. My dad eventually (kind of) got his **** together and became an aircraft mechanic, but still got so drunk almost every night that he hospitalized himself after vomiting blood from all the ulcers that constantly drinking had formed in his esophagus and stomach.
> 
> ...



not everyone is in ur situation. 

obviously society needs people to work like im not saying people shouldnt work But everyone deserves to be able to live and get stuff like healthcare and education. those are basic things that everyone should have.

youre talking about an ideal society where everyone would be able to suppoet themselves at all times. real life isn't like that, people get sick, get into bad situations (that may or may not be caused by their stupid decisions but people still deserve to live), have their house burn down, get fired from their jpb and not being able to find a new one and so on.
that's when we need society and a social safety net.


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## Miii (Jun 14, 2017)

visibleghost said:


> not everyone is in ur situation.
> 
> obviously society needs people to work like im not saying people shouldnt work But everyone deserves to be able to live and get stuff like healthcare and education. those are basic things that everyone should have.
> 
> ...



For the _third_ time now, investing in a charitable non-profit organization is better for the ones in need than government subsidized healthcare because those donating money have control over what their money goes towards. As a donor, you can ensure that the charity you're funding works their asses off to help those in need (if they don't, you fund a charity that will). 

You have no say in where your money goes when the government forces you to pay into a healthcare system, and a portion of the money taken from you will always go to paying government employees whose jobs should be left to charities in the first place. When you fund a charity, ALL of the money goes towards their cause.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Jared:3 said:


> I feel like we have a debate team, with Forestyne and visible ghost leading the others
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> Ugh it gets annoying seeing the same people arguing over and over again like just get off the thread and respect other opinions...



Stopping at respecting opinions isn't very productive, though. I understand that talking to someone with a completely different opinion than yours can feel like talking to a brick wall, but debating issues is a good thing.


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## visibleghost (Jun 14, 2017)

Miii said:


> For the _third_ time now, investing in a charitable non-profit organization is better for the ones in need than government subsidized healthcare because those donating money have control over what their money goes towards. As a donor, you can ensure that the charity you're funding works their asses off to help those in need (if they don't, you fund a charity that will).
> 
> You have no say in where your money goes when the government forces you to pay into a healthcare system, and a portion of the money taken from you will always go to paying government employees whose jobs should be left to charities in the first place. When you fund a charity, ALL of the money goes towards their cause.
> 
> ...



hhhh but the government exists to make sure everyone has their rights and everyone is doing okiedokie. charities shouldnt do the work of the government. 

this is kinda what im talking about 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights-based_approach_to_development

- - - Post Merge - - -

like, makinh sure that there is a government funded and regulatibg system is better than to rely on charities


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## Miii (Jun 14, 2017)

Healthcare is none of the government's business in my opinion. I can understand temporarily providing benefits for people that are down on their luck or people that are sick to the point they can't work, but as far as the average working individual, they should be responsible for themselves. Maybe you're just for bigger government and services made "free" by stealing from citizens, but I'm for limited government interference in peoples' lives. 

I think the government should handle the military because the protect us all from foreign invasion, maintenance of the roadways we all drive on, maintenance of the land we all live on, management of things like prescription drugs made available to citizens (only when it comes to preventing drugs with life threatening side effects from entering the market), enacting laws (when voted on by citizens) and maybe a few other things that haven't come to mind just yet.


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## visibleghost (Jun 14, 2017)

Anyways im glad i live in sweden where people dont have to choose between dying or being in debt for the rest of eternity when u get sick /:


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## ams (Jun 14, 2017)

I'm fortunate to live in a wonderful country where health care is covered. I've never paid to see a doctor, have a surgery, or take life-saving medications. I'm really proud that I'm training to be part of this health care system and I honestly wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I became a doctor in the US knowing that my patients had to choose between things like housing and food and their health.

I personally lost my mom to cancer and our family didn't pay a dime for her 3 years or so of treatment. It would have bankrupted us and put us in a situation where I wouldn't have been able to live in a nice neighbourhood, go to a good school, and end up 2 years into medical school debt-free due to never having to support my family financially. Everyone, rich or poor, deserves the kind of access that we get.


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## xSuperMario64x (Jun 14, 2017)

Miii said:


> Healthcare is none of the government's business in my opinion. I can understand temporarily providing benefits for people that are down on their luck or people that are sick to the point they can't work, but as far as the average working individual, they should be responsible for themselves. Maybe you're just for bigger government and services made "free" by stealing from citizens, but I'm for limited government interference in peoples' lives.
> 
> I think the government should handle the military because the protect us all from foreign invasion, maintenance of the roadways we all drive on, maintenance of the land we all live on, management of things like prescription drugs made available to citizens (only when it comes to preventing drugs with life threatening side effects from entering the market), enacting laws (when voted on by citizens) and maybe a few other things that haven't come to mind just yet.



I agree, personally. Health care should not be taken care of by the government. That's where corruption happens.


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## gravitycrossing (Jun 14, 2017)

its depressing


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## Ghost Soda (Jun 16, 2017)

Boy howdy, I love living in a world where people will defend using people's tax money to kill people but will object to using any of that money to save people in need. ((


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## Blood Eclipse (Aug 8, 2019)

gravitycrossing said:


> im in canada so this isn't really an issue for me but i hate to see all the americans who are struggling so badly rn. its depressing



A lot of people here would  rather vote against their own interests simply because they buy into the fear mongering spewed by their government and politicians. 

- - - Post #2 - - -



Ghost Soda said:


> Boy howdy, I love living in a world where people will defend using people's tax money to kill people but will object to using any of that money to save people in need. ((











Exactly ))


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## tumut (Aug 8, 2019)

Who needs health insurance when u can see a local witch doctor from craigslist

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Mu~ said:


> I'd rather have my taxes invested in saving lives than used for the army which kills people in wars. Funny how I'm seeing people complain about the first thing but not the second one.


"Saving lives". The U.S. military is corrupt and the regime change wars we fight in are to expand our influence and to get cheaper oil to fuel more wars. Raytheon and other contractors donate massive ammounts to their crony politician friends to vote for wars that will make them more money. 

U.S. and the Obama administration invaded Libya and ovethrew the government and its a chaotic war ridden wasteland now. Trump refuses to withdraw troops from afghanistan and continues to fund the Saudi blockade that has created the largest famine of this century in Yemen, and violates international law. 

The U.S. military has also infamously killed tens of thousands of civilians. The U.S. military is not here to protect you. Its a corrupt imperialistic war machine.

Healthcare would save many more lives than any bombing, and is far cheaper and less of a burden on our budget. Taxpayers fund over 50% of all military spending in the ENTIRE WORLD. I dont know how this is even a question.


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## Midoriya (Aug 8, 2019)

I have health insurance thanks to family.

I don’t know why this thread was bumped, but OOF, a lot of replies on this thread seem to be people only wanting to see things from their perspective.  

I’ll just leave this here and quote it again since it’s relevant for this thread.

"There's always room for folks to grow and change, ain't there? And, if ya only go after what ya think is right, ya might end up rejectin' all thoughts and opinions other than yer own. That's mighty dangerous."  - Clay from Pokemon Black 2/White 2

Peace.


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## visibleghost (Aug 8, 2019)

BoringNotBornIng said:


> We're all part of an worldwide business. They oblige us to pay the insurance, although many don't need it or don't want it. Give us the free choice, just like with the home insurance. I don't know if I would ever use the health insurance because I have only two stages of being sick: it will pass and I'm ****ed. I'm aware that my house needs insurance because I invested a lot of time and money in it while the diseases come and go.  Maybe if I could choose between more insurance policies, as I did with the house, and find a better deal, I could accept it.



you put a lot of time and money into your house so it needs insurance, but your actual body, health and life, which you put way more time and money on keeping alive, somehow aren't as important..? i fail to see how this makes sense.

and healthcare doesn't have to be a business, there are many places outside of the usa where it isn't and it works well.


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## Dim (Aug 8, 2019)

Muller21pr said:


> Personally I agree with you, because all kind of insurances are expensive. For example, I pay $ 500 for my have insurance, and I'm going to change my home insurance on something more reliable and cheap


Okay, but you know that post you responded to is two years old right?


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## Chipl95 (Aug 8, 2019)

I live in Canada so I have the universal healthcare. Don't mind paying taxes to fund it at all. I am also a government employee so if I get a permanent position, I get great supplementary insurance.


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## LadyDestani (Aug 9, 2019)

Healthcare is something that I'm actually pretty passionate about due to my family's past experiences.  When I was 10, my mom was diagnosed with a rare heart condition.  She needed surgery to save her life and luckily my dad had insurance for all of us.  After paying the deductible, the insurance covered the rest of her surgery and immediate medical costs.  But the next year, they hiked our rates up so high that my dad couldn't afford to keep the insurance.

My dad was self-employed and we weren't rich but we had money for everything we needed and then some.  We had a two-story house in a nice neighborhood, went to nice schools, had 2 vehicles.  We weren't hurting for money, but the rates the insurance company wanted to charge were astronomical.  My dad shopped around, but he couldn't get insurance anywhere else for my mom because she now had a pre-existing condition.  He had no choice but to drop the insurance.

Unfortunately, my mom's condition was lifelong.  She needed medicine and frequent doctor visits and anytime her chest hurt he had to take her to the emergency room for tests if it was after hours because she could require immediate attention.  He tried his best to keep up with her medical bills.  We sold our home and moved into a small apartment.  We pared down everything that wasn't necessary.  Still, he couldn't afford the costs.  After two years, we were forced into bankruptcy.

But it didn't end there.  The bankruptcy cleared the current debt, but my mom's condition was never going to go away.  The bills piled up all over again.  After waiting the required amount of time from the 1st bankruptcy, my dad had to claim bankruptcy a second time.  At that point, he realized that something needed to be done or this would become an endless cycle, so he and my mom divorced.  By getting legally divorced, my mom could qualify for Medicaid and they could finally start to build their lives again.

They never did fully recover financially, but my dad was able to retire when his health because poor as well.  They scrape by with the help of Medicare now, but they still have to pay a lot for certain things that Medicare doesn't cover.  They have spent thousands of dollars out of their own pocket for things like dental work and hearing aids.

I have employer-sponsored healthcare, so as long as I can keep my job, my husband and I are covered.  Granted, we have a huge deductible that we could probably never afford to pay, so I don't exactly consider us to be in good shape if we were to need the insurance for something major.

I've worked in the insurance industry for almost 20 years now and I feel like I have fairly decent insight into the private insurance business in the US.  They only care about profits.  That's the bottom line.  I sit in meetings regularly where people discuss raising rates by 100%, 150%, or more like it's nothing.  They have no concern for the person paying for that insurance and their needs.  It's all about making money to them.  Private insurance will not protect us when we truly need it.

In my opinion, we absolutely need some sort of universal or national healthcare system.  I'm not going into the details, but there are many ways to make it work.  There are so many other countries with systems that work well and we have the opportunity to use the best parts of their systems and avoid the pitfalls.  I just don't want to see any other family lose as much as my family did.


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## joombo (Sep 12, 2019)

It's true that 70% of the population has good enough insurance that healthcare is not a huge financial burden. Insurance in the US is a necessity if you need any sort of major procedure. Some software development companies provide healthcare software solutions that can help to reduce costs through simpler administration for practitioners, here is info jafton.com/industries/healthcare. I think digital consulting or telemedicine could be the next step in the healthcare development.


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## Stella-Io (Sep 12, 2019)

I don't have any healthcare/insurance because I am way to poor to afford it. Simple as that!

I am able to get health insurance throu my job, but I don't make alot of money as it is. There's a car commercial on the radio that says 'if you make 400 a week we'll approve you even with bad credit' and I find it SO astonishing that people actually make 400 a week and that to be considered 'okay enough'. On average I'll make ?th of that, maybe half on a good week.


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## Hat' (Sep 12, 2019)

I live in France! So we pay just like a little bit of our health needs. 
I saw just a couple days ago that French people paid 7? out of 100? of health needs.
It's very helpful and I'm glad we have this!


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## YunaMoon (Sep 12, 2019)

I?m on Medicare/Medicaid but believe in health care being universal. It?s a human right that?s not only for the rich


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## Alolan_Apples (Sep 12, 2019)

So I have a question. If healthcare is considered a “right”, does that also mean that nobody should be required to pay for it? Sure that we can make the government pay for healthcare, but doctors shouldn’t be capped out to where they only get paid to operate on a certain number of patients. This is what leads to long waiting lines for healthcare, which is unethical. That’s the problem with universal healthcare. And some medical procedures are forbidden by law, even if they’re vital. That’s why I said two years ago that government management of healthcare is bad.

I personally believe that nobody should wait for healthcare, not for surgeries at least.


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## MelloDimensions (Sep 12, 2019)

I get both health and dental insurance through my work, but I'm still very seldom in using it to avoid any issues that follow.  It's over-inflation, and it's a practice I feel is more associated with con mans rather than doctors.  In the event you simply use a room they still charge you thousands. A room that may, or should be only around 400 or so. Your insurance seeing it's not "life-threatening" will either not pay, or pay very little to at least fulfill the 400.  The rest is unnecessary, and why it's conning more than assisting.  Once it's settled, and you can't pay it they can do whatever they want for as long as it takes.  Some even taking life times. I've really grown to resent it.  They look for paper work, not patients.  Just note the next time you enter a hospital.  See what they ask first.


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## N e s s (Sep 12, 2019)

Mildly disappointed Warren (my top pick for Democrats right now) is going with Medicare for all instead of single payer system. Kinda hoping she changes that later.


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## Buttonsy (Sep 13, 2019)

I live in Canada so luckily I have free health care. I'm really glad, as I've recently been having some health issues and if I lived in a country that didn't have free health care, I would have to take care of myself entirely without a doctor or proper medications, as I make nowhere near enough money to pay for health care.

I will say that I wish our health care covered dental, not only could I really use braces at this time but I've heard people tell stories of having tooth problems but not being able to get them checked out due to not having free dental care, and had to wait until they got severe enough infections or injuries from their tooth problems that they could be considered regular medical care.


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