# What makes Animal Crossing villagers different from humans?



## Wallon (Aug 16, 2014)

This is a very philosophically implicative question. I hypothesize that they are not so distinguishable. But before I explain why, I want to assure you that I do not treat them like humans and I'm not saying we 'should' do anything. I just want to explore the differences. Challenging normal philosophical expectations is kind of a hobby of mine.
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Probable objections which I will address before they are made: 

Q. "Humans have feelings, and AC villagers don't because they're just video game characters."

1. How can you be sure that humans have feelings? They could just be highly intelligent machines; showing feelings but having none. 

2. Humans are made of matter and chemicals which react in the brain to make feelings happen. Assuming all the bits of matter that make up humans don't have feelings on their own, but instead begin to have feelings when put together is this complex way, why can't the same be true for microchips producing different complex combinations of 1s and 0s? 

A. We can't certainly check what has feelings and what doesn't because /we/ simply /are not those things/. Maybe even the chair you're sitting on has feelings and just has no way of communicating them. 

Q. "Humans are real and AC villagers are not."

A. How do you distinguish that? 

Q. "Humans exist independent of the mind and AC villagers exist dependent on what is perceiving them."

A. How can you tell that humans exist independently of the mind? When I turn off my 3DS, why would I think that Bill has stopped existing? I can even go and check that he still exists by turning my 3DS on again, going to his house, and finding him exactly where I left him. If I leave your presence and you are in your regular residence, and I go looking for you again the next day, I expect to find you in your regular residence, just like Bill. 
Bill can also come and visit me without my asking him to, just like you can, but AC must be active on my 3DS, since he can't escape the village. But residents of China, for example, can't visit me unless I am nearby as well, because the migration laws for his particular area are extremely strict. He can visit me if I go to China, just like how Bill can visit me when AC is active on my 3DS.
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I think I've written enough for now. Gotta save some questions for the repliers to ask.


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## Wallon (Aug 16, 2014)

Wish I had some feedback for why I'm getting no feedback.


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## #1 Senpai (Aug 16, 2014)

they are animals and humans are not ?


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## Wallon (Aug 16, 2014)

Kanabanana said:


> they are animals and humans are not ?



They are not just animals, though. More like anthropomorphic animals who appear to behave like humans. And biologically at least, yeah, they're pretty different. I acknowledge that. Thanks for pointing that out.


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## Caius (Aug 16, 2014)

Wallon said:


> Wish I had some feedback for why I'm getting no feedback.



Probably because you posted under brewsters cafe, which is everything non animal crossing related. Moved this for you.


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## Blu Rose (Aug 16, 2014)

Okay, and now I have an objection for you:

Even if all humans are just highly intelligent machines with programmed actions, feelings, all that, that still doesn't change the fact that video game characters have programmed dialogue, programmed feelings, programmed actions... Sure, humans might have their bits of programmed actions--instincts, for example--, 

If you talk to one villager long enough, you will start to see their dialogue repeating, bringing up points already heard earlier in the conversation (either that, or they will get "mad" at you). Also, what makes them different is that you can't physically feel them, as you would high-five or hug a human friend.

There is much proof to say that humans exist independently of the mind of one. When I was 4 or 5, I never thought about Iraq, or the soldiers at all, and yet my uncle died in the war that raged against the U.S. and Iraq, I had met him before, but only once...
Not to mention the countless other wars that were never thought of, the people that are never thought of...

Oh my God this is so time-consuming for me
This is also probably really flawed


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## Bublah (Aug 16, 2014)

Because we have biological cells that let us function within us. Whereas coding is what makes the villagers function.

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Kanabanana said:


> they are animals and humans are not ?



And technically we are animals: Animalia-> Chordata-> Mammalia-> Primates-> Hominidae-> Hominini-> Homo-> Homo Sapiens.
We are just a highly intelligent animal is all.
Maybe Animal Crossing is set in the future where Humans made animals bipedal and smart.


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## Wallon (Aug 16, 2014)

Blu Rose said:


> Okay, and now I have an objection for you:
> 
> Even if all humans are just highly intelligent machines with programmed actions, feelings, all that, that still doesn't change the fact that video game characters have programmed dialogue, programmed feelings, programmed actions... Sure, humans might have their bits of programmed actions--instincts, for example--,
> 
> If you talk to one villager long enough, you will start to see their dialogue repeating, bringing up points already heard earlier in the conversation (either that, or they will get "mad" at you). Also, what makes them different is that you can't physically feel them, as you would high-five or hug a human friend.



That's a good point. AC villagers do not have the ability to make new language and give a meaning to that language. Or, maybe they can, but haven't shown/can't show it.

But I can't high-five you, either, because you are not physically present. You are electronically present, via the internet. Bill is also electronically present. I could also high-five Bill if he wasn't stuck wherever he is. And see, he's not actually in the cartridge or the 3DS. I just need to use those things in order to interact with him.



Blu Rose said:


> There is much proof to say that humans exist independently of the mind of one. When I was 4 or 5, I never thought about Iraq, or the soldiers at all, and yet my uncle died in the war that raged against the U.S. and Iraq, I had met him before, but only once...
> Not to mention the countless other wars that were never thought of, the people that are never thought of...
> 
> Oh my God this is so time-consuming for me
> This is also probably really flawed



And when I was 4 or 5, Animal Crossing: City Folk wasn't released yet. I didn't know Bill was in the game until he moved into my town. He therefor existed independently of my mind. 

Also, I didn't explain why humans may exist dependently of the mind. Sorry. Here's the thing. Dreams? Usually you can't control dreams. But they are still inventions of your unconscious mind. Everything I perceive is an invention of my unconscious mind; I assume it is presently interpreting electronic signals from my eyes to give me the image of my keyboard and computer screen. Maybe everything exists dependent of my mind. Any evidence to the contrary must be perceived, and anything which is perceived may not be real. Thus, there is no 'proof' that humans exist independently of my mind, from my perspective

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Bublah said:


> Because we have biological cells that let us function within us. Whereas coding is what makes the villagers function.
> 
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> 
> ...



Yup. They have electronic reactions, we have chemical reactions. I'm going to start making a list of all the ways to distinguish AC villagers and humans.

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ZR388 said:


> Probably because you posted under brewsters cafe, which is everything non animal crossing related. Moved this for you.



thanks


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## Wallon (Aug 16, 2014)

Bublah said:


> And technically we are animals: Animalia-> Chordata-> Mammalia-> Primates-> Hominidae-> Hominini-> Homo-> Homo Sapiens.
> We are just a highly intelligent animal is all.
> Maybe Animal Crossing is set in the future where Humans made animals bipedal and smart.



Also, that is a great WMG. It would also explain why the village life is so peaceful, although that might mean there's a very dark, less fortunate part of the AC world. In fact, Cherry was telling me she wanted to move, for fun, to a town where they have turf wars (that's effed up doe). Also, in Wild World, there's a place called Boondox. However, there is some speculation that Boondox was just invented by Tortimer, and he used the donation money for himself. If that were true, it might serve some explanation for why he's not mayor anymore: he probably got called out.


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## dolphins (Aug 16, 2014)

you can talk to them whenever you want to, they always recently give you gifts and if you are really close to them you can send them letters, talk about their personal feelings idk  but they are way nicer than humans.


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## DarkOnyx (Aug 17, 2014)

Bublah said:


> Because we have biological cells that let us function within us. Whereas coding is what makes the villagers function.
> 
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> 
> ...



That's really messed up.Animals are smart.We are animals too.It's just that each animal act differently,just because other animals aren't like humans,does that really mean they aren't smart?And don't say,"well,they don't know math.Seems stupid to me."Years ago when dinasours died and the first humans appeared,there was no such thing as math,or languages,or writing.Humans made that up,if the universe was alive and you asked it what is math or something similar,it wouldn't know.Because humans made it up to keep track of stuff.Humans and animals have different ways of living,doesn't mean other animals aren't smart.


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## Kennedy-kins (Aug 18, 2014)

They ask you if they can move and will stay if you say so. Humans just move without any approval of their friends/family/boss/whatever.


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## Wallon (Aug 19, 2014)

Kennedy-kins said:


> They ask you if they can move and will stay if you say so. Humans just move without any approval of their friends/family/boss/whatever.



Tru, tru

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sharkystriker22 said:


> That's really messed up.Animals are smart.We are animals too.It's just that each animal act differently,just because other animals aren't like humans,does that really mean they aren't smart?And don't say,"well,they don't know math.Seems stupid to me."Years ago when dinasours died and the first humans appeared,there was no such thing as math,or languages,or writing.Humans made that up,if the universe was alive and you asked it what is math or something similar,it wouldn't know.Because humans made it up to keep track of stuff.Humans and animals have different ways of living,doesn't mean other animals aren't smart.



I wouldn't say it's messed up, but you do make a good point that it's not fair that other animals don't have their own representatives to say that they are intelligent, too, even though it's not exactly relevant to the thread topic.


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## xiaonu (Aug 20, 2014)

You often say that things could possibly have feelings but have no way of expressing them. My question is how? What's preventing them from expressing how it/they feel? o:


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## Bellxis (Aug 20, 2014)

...okay then. o - o


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## Darumy (Aug 20, 2014)

Humans can create and imagine, haha.


Also, all villagers Animal Crossing are AI, coded into a very closed off realm. Of course you can debate that we are no different (i.e. Matrix-esque world) but the game itself is aware it is a game. Rules of gameplay, bits of dialogue, and 4th wall breaking references are all indicative of that, while we on the other hand, have no clue if our universe even has an end. Furthermore, humans understand context while AI cannot. False intelligence can only process exactly what they are told to do.

A less technical viewpoint: villagers cannot love or suffer or "change". They can't kill themselves, or rebel against you in any shape or form. Their personalities are coded, and they will continue to repeat the same lines over and over again.


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## Yui Z (Aug 20, 2014)

*1. How can you be sure that humans have feelings? They could just be highly intelligent machines; showing feelings but having none. *

I find that it's slightly obvious that humans have feelings. If you've experienced that, then you should know for yourself. For example, when someone really close to you dies, you can feel a deep pain inside of you. Honestly, sometimes I don't show my emotions when really I'm going through these times, but the pain is worse than ever. Animal Crossing villagers, along with any video game characters, are just pixels. They're designed as figures in a game and are programmed to show feelings, however there's no way they're actually feeling those emotions because there's no way for game designers to program them with emotions.

The idea of video game characters having emotions is merely a fantasy. 

*2. Humans are made of matter and chemicals which react in the brain to make feelings happen. Assuming all the bits of matter that make up humans don't have feelings on their own, but instead begin to have feelings when put together is this complex way, why can't the same be true for microchips producing different complex combinations of 1s and 0s? *

I believe that there's more to it than that. You can go ahead and say that emotions are just chemical reactions, but I think that it goes much deeper than that. Humans have what other creatures or objects don't have and I'll explain that in my conclusion at the end.

*Q. "Humans are real and AC villagers are not." How can you distinguish that?*

Easily. Animal Crossing villagers were created by humans to play a part in _a game_, and not to be independent or emotional. They're a 2D (or 3D if you actually use the feature) picture on a screen, while humans are physical beings who have needs such as food, water, sleep, etc. Humans have their own characteristics and personalities which they develop themselves. Villagers get those from programming and don't develop those themselves. 

*Q. "Humans exist independent of the mind and AC villagers exist dependent on what is perceiving them." How can you tell that humans exist independently of the mind?*

Bill doesn't exist. He's a game character, and therefore doesn't exist. Life doesn't progress or live inside a console, it's impossible. A game character does what it's programmed to do, not what it wants to do. Humans have a conscience to tell them what's right and wrong. We can choose whether to follow that and do the right thing, or we can completely go against it and do the wrong thing. Animal Crossing villagers don't have that, so they're dependent on what's perceiving them. This is why humans are independent of the mind, because we can choose ourselves whether we steal that item or murder that person. We have control; pixels do not.

This question is similar to "what makes humans different from animals?" I believe that humans have souls, while animals do not. Not having a soul doesn't mean that animals don't have feelings though of course, because I'm pretty sure they do. So I have the same answer as that question; humans have souls and game characters do not, in my own personal opinion.

I'll add one final question in that you'll probably want to ask. *How do you know that AC characters don't have souls, if they exist?*

Because I believe that the soul is God-given. He only gave souls to humans, and he made humans to look after the world he gave to us. The soul allows us to connect with God, if we allow it, and lives on after our bodies decay. Game characters can regenerate after they die while human bodies cannot.

This is coming from a Christian point of view in some parts, but it's the only way I can possibly describe my answer so that it makes sense.


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## Spongebob (Aug 20, 2014)

Kanabanana said:


> they are animals and humans are not ?



I'm quoting this to see what you wrote.

Also the only difference between villagers and humans are that villagers are animals.


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## Wallon (Aug 20, 2014)

xiaonu said:


> You often say that things could possibly have feelings but have no way of expressing them. My question is how? What's preventing them from expressing how it/they feel? o:



I assume nothing's stopping them. Maybe they just don't understand how to.

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Darumy said:


> Humans can create and imagine, haha.
> 
> 
> Also, all villagers Animal Crossing are AI, coded into a very closed off realm. Of course you can debate that we are no different (i.e. Matrix-esque world) but the game itself is aware it is a game. Rules of gameplay, bits of dialogue, and 4th wall breaking references are all indicative of that, while we on the other hand, have no clue if our universe even has an end. Furthermore, humans understand context while AI cannot. False intelligence can only process exactly what they are told to do.
> ...



Humans are programmed to some degree, too. Imagine that there is something observing us that can express itself in ways which we cannot even imagine. And for that, they think we are unintelligent, or that our feelings and intelligence is false.

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Yui Z said:


> *1. How can you be sure that humans have feelings? They could just be highly intelligent machines; showing feelings but having none. *
> 
> I find that it's slightly obvious that humans have feelings. If you've experienced that, then you should know for yourself. For example, when someone really close to you dies, you can feel a deep pain inside of you. Honestly, sometimes I don't show my emotions when really I'm going through these times, but the pain is worse than ever. Animal Crossing villagers, along with any video game characters, are just pixels. They're designed as figures in a game and are programmed to show feelings, however there's no way they're actually feeling those emotions because there's no way for game designers to program them with emotions.
> 
> ...



You are making too many unnecessary assumptions of what we will agree upon that I can't address them all in one sitting. But I welcome and appreciate your engagement in this interactive reasoning process; thank you. I'd like to keep this at one objection at a time in order to avoid frustration and branching conversations.


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## Bowie (Aug 20, 2014)

Well, I think it's a very interesting concept, but, when you create a 3D model, add textures, animations, and then program it with dialogue you've wrote yourself, there's not much room for anything truly alive. Villagers are programmed to seem as real as possible, and, this conversation proves that the programmers are doing a good job.


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## Yui Z (Aug 21, 2014)

Wallon said:


> You are making too many unnecessary assumptions of what we will agree upon that I can't address them all in one sitting. But I welcome and appreciate your engagement in this interactive reasoning process; thank you. I'd like to keep this at one objection at a time in order to avoid frustration and branching conversations.


I'm slightly confused at what you're getting at here. All I was doing was simply answering the question in the title and stating why I think that Animal Crossing villagers are completely different to humans. I was making a (hopefully) worthy post of being in the thread. 

Hope you understand.


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## cIementine (Aug 21, 2014)

Wallon said:


> "Humans are real and AC villagers are not." How do you distinguish that?



It is rather easy to distinguish.
We know Animal Crossing villagers aren't real since they aren't living. Whilst they are programmed to do things that we do, like eating, walking, shopping, sleeping, etc, they are just pixels. This doesn't mean they weren't based off of living things. Take Stitches, for example. He has the shape of a bear, but he isn't an actual bear. Bears are living things, who, like humans have the essential organs needed to provide life.
Animal crossing villagers do not have those organs, however their creators do. 
They are nothing but combinations of 1's and 0's projected onto a screen to create a game programmed with human qualities and everyday skills


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## Wallon (Aug 21, 2014)

Marie said:


> It is rather easy to distinguish.
> We know Animal Crossing villagers aren't real since they aren't living. Whilst they are programmed to do things that we do, like eating, walking, shopping, sleeping, etc, they are just pixels. This doesn't mean they weren't based off of living things. Take Stitches, for example. He has the shape of a bear, but he isn't an actual bear. Bears are living things, who, like humans have the essential organs needed to provide life.
> Animal crossing villagers do not have those organs, however their creators do.
> They are nothing but combinations of 1's and 0's projected onto a screen to create a game programmed with human qualities and everyday skills



"We know Animal Crossing villagers aren't real since they aren't living." 

But do you know that humans are living?

"Take Stitches, for example. He has the shape of a bear, but he isn't an actual bear. Bears are living things, who, like humans have the essential organs needed to provide life."

Bears also have the shape of bears. Please clearly explain what distinguishes an actual bear from Stitches.
I can't tell what organs are essential for life because you haven't defined life for me.

"They are nothing but combinations of 1's and 0's projected onto a screen to create a game programmed with human qualities and everyday skills"

But humans are nothing but combinations of different chemicals which light reflects off of and bounces onto our eyes to create the images of humans with human qualities and everyday skills. Is the fact that humans are made of chemicals what make them "alive?" I assume there would need to be more criteria for "living" than being made of chemicals since my chair and desk fit that criteria and we don't usually think of those things as though they are alive.

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Bowie said:


> Well, I think it's a very interesting concept, but, when you create a 3D model, add textures, animations, and then program it with dialogue you've wrote yourself, there's not much room for anything truly alive. Villagers are programmed to seem as real as possible, and, this conversation proves that the programmers are doing a good job.



Actually, I think they do not intuitively seem real or alive. However, I have a compulsion to be prudently skeptical of the intuitive seemingness of things. So, I am investigating whether or not the intuitive seemingness matches the logical seemingness, as I often do with things. So far, I think the only logically discernible difference is what the AC villagers are made of. And even then, are the AC villagers actually made of 1s, 0s and pixels? Or are they actually made of what the 1s, 0s and pixels are trying to show me they are made of? Like, maybe they are not as they appear on the screen: Bill as seen in the game is just Bill's avatar, know what I mean? Maybe he has actual brown feathers and a yellow beak, but can only communicate with me on a 3DS system which limits the degree to which he can express himself, just like how I am similar to my avatar, but can only communicate with Bill to a limited degree through my 3DS system.


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## rose star (Aug 22, 2014)

Darn, and here I hoped this was a discussion about the differences and connections between animal characters and human characters in Animal Crossing. That would be really neat. I've always wondered what's up with that, why are you (and your friends) the only humans? Where do the rest of the humans live? Are you the only ones?

This kinda "intellectual" debate just feels like thinking unnecessarily deep about things that aren't really going to get you anywhere or solve any problems, even on a small scale...


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## Zulehan (Aug 22, 2014)

rose star said:


> I've always wondered what's up with that, why are you (and your friends) the only humans? Where do the rest of the humans live? Are you the only ones?


Yeah, you are a human in a town without other humans living there (unless you count alternate accounts), but the other animals accept and take no issue to you becoming mayor. Tortimer was mayor before so there is no 'special' expectation that humans should be the mayor. And the letters from the mayor's mother and father indicate that they are living together, and maybe in a town with other humans. And whatever town they are in and whatever its differences from the town you are in, its distance seems to have been covered with a single train ride.

I suppose someone who has played other AC games would draw upon them to paint a picture of the society glimpsed at in NL.


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## Bowie (Aug 22, 2014)

Wallon said:


> Actually, I think they do not intuitively seem real or alive. However, I have a compulsion to be prudently skeptical of the intuitive seemingness of things. So, I am investigating whether or not the intuitive seemingness matches the logical seemingness, as I often do with things. So far, I think the only logically discernible difference is what the AC villagers are made of. And even then, are the AC villagers actually made of 1s, 0s and pixels? Or are they actually made of what the 1s, 0s and pixels are trying to show me they are made of? Like, maybe they are not as they appear on the screen: Bill as seen in the game is just Bill's avatar, know what I mean? Maybe he has actual brown feathers and a yellow beak, but can only communicate with me on a 3DS system which limits the degree to which he can express himself, just like how I am similar to my avatar, but can only communicate with Bill to a limited degree through my 3DS system.



Well, you make a very good point, but, again, there is no room for something living. Whenever I make a 3D model, there is no capability to live. I'm not trying to define life, but, there is no life in that. Even if they were alive, there would be no way for them to tell us that they are, as they are all just programmed to do and say things.


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## cIementine (Aug 22, 2014)

Wallon said:


> Bears also have the shape of bears. Please clearly explain what distinguishes an actual bear from Stitches.



That would be because they _are_ bears.
A real bear eats real things. Walks upon real things. Lives upon real things that we, living things can feel and touch. Stitches is, like I said, a collection of 1's and 0's that lives in 1's and 0's, eats 1's and 0's, and walks upon 1's and 0's, all things that we cannot touch.

No offence or anything, and while this is the point of your thread, I feel as if you're trying too hard to sound 'philisophical' and smart.. 
I agree with Rose Star, too. It's fun, nonetheless, I suppose ?


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## Zulehan (Aug 22, 2014)

Zulehan said:


> Yeah, you are a human in a town without other humans living there (unless you count alternate accounts), but the other animals accept and take no issue to you becoming mayor. Tortimer was mayor before so there is no 'special' expectation that humans should be the mayor. And the letters from the mayor's mother and father indicate that they are living together, and maybe in a town with other humans. And whatever town they are in and whatever its differences from the town you are in, its distance seems to have been covered with a single train ride.
> 
> I suppose someone who has played other AC games would draw upon them to paint a picture of the society glimpsed at in NL.


Heh, now that I think about it, NL might be like _Adventure Time_ where there are a lot of anthropomorphic animals, and they see humans as just another animal _and_ their equal.


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## DarkOnyx (Aug 23, 2014)

Zulehan said:


> Heh, now that I think about it, NL might be like _Adventure Time_ where there are a lot of anthropomorphic animals, and they see humans as just another animal _and_ their equal.



Lol why are you comparing NL to AT? AC came first.You should be comparing AT to AC.Wait a minute,what am I saying that makes no difference...xD


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## Zulehan (Aug 23, 2014)

sharkystriker22 said:


> Lol why are you comparing NL to AT? AC came first.You should be comparing AT to AC.Wait a minute,what am I saying that makes no difference...xD


It came to mind when thinking about NL. Also, I have not played the other AC games, so they would not come to mind as a reference.


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## Wallon (Aug 26, 2014)

Well, this thread got a bit more popular than I thought, and it's hard to keep up with all the new posts. So I'll leave this thread open and let you guys talk about it, but I'm going to take this thread off my subscription list. I would be delighted if you decided to argue with me in a private conversation, though; they're much easier to follow.


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## Rolltide4900 (Sep 5, 2014)

You have gotten way to into Animal Crossing if you are comparing them to humans...


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## MagicalCat590 (Sep 6, 2014)

Zulehan said:


> Heh, now that I think about it, NL might be like _Adventure Time_ where there are a lot of anthropomorphic animals, and they see *humans as just another animal *_and_ their equal.



Humans are animals and you guys need to watch more Digimon. I mean, seriously, this whole "They're just pixels" mentality is exactly what caused Digimon (and every other fictional form of AI) to rebel _against_ humans. I know, it's not the same thing because ACNL is just a game, but AI does exist and consider the possibility that AC character might one day take on the form of AI. Then what? Are they still just pixels, even if they can interact with us and respond with emotion of their own free will? Even if they are, do they not deserve our respect and kindness?


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## Zulehan (Sep 6, 2014)

MagicalCat590 said:


> Humans are animals and you guys need to watch more Digimon.


I know, but thought it better to adopt the language of people commenting in this topic rather than get into definitions.


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