# Fire Emblem Permadeath



## pokedude729 (Jul 7, 2015)

So, I just started a Rom of Fire Emblem for GBA, and I've already had a character die (I'm sorry, It's my first Fire Emblem Game). Luckily it was near the beginning so the chapter isn't that long, but what are you guys' opinion on the series staple of Permadeath? Do you just go on with the game, reset to sav them, or what? I reset the game (and will likely play in casual mode when I play awakening)


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## Mairmalade (Jul 7, 2015)

I think having permadeath is the only way to play Fire Emblem. Even if it was a simple mistake on my part, I roll with it because it keeps the game interesting and realistic for me. I get really into my strategies and think about all my possible options to make sure I don't lose units I don't need to. 

However, there have been a couple times where I've cheated on my mindset. I set one of my favorite units a square ahead of where I wanted to put them by accident and they got rekt. Needless to say I did restart... :c


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## ThomasNLD (Jul 7, 2015)

I kinda agree with Mairmalade. I think it is a defining part of the Fire Emblem series, playing with permadeath turned off, wouldn`t be the same for me.

What I do if someone dies depends really on the character. Sometimes I sacrifice a character I don`t care about to save another even. Lately I try to keep them all alive, so it does exactly what Mairmalade says, it makes me really precise in the tactics I choose, to make sure they all survive. However, if a favoured character of mine dies, I do restart the game. I guess restarting chapters is also a defining point for the series for me. Its very unforgiving, but hey, its war.


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## pokeude14 (Jul 16, 2015)

I am personally against permadeath. When I played the original FE on GBA, It was just too much for me when a character died, as they don't come back. Luckily, with Casual Mode on Awakening, It helps ease my mind. That's not to say that I just Zerg Rush the opponent, I still try to strategize; but if a character falls, then the fight can still go on and the guy will rejoin the next battle.


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## radical6 (Jul 16, 2015)

i just restart if someone dies
usually doesnt happen tho coz im always very careful when playing


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## Tao (Jul 16, 2015)

I like the perma death. 

It makes me think properly about things before I make a move and when a character dies I actually end up giving a **** about their death since their loss genuinely makes a difference (especially if they were one of my MVP's). If perma death wasn't a thing, I would just zerg rush everything since the difficulty of the game comes from those perma deaths.


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## shunishu (Jul 16, 2015)

reset reset reset and again till it works 
it's tough

playing fe without permadeath is kinda pointless..


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## JCnator (Jul 16, 2015)

The concept of permadeath is a nice novelty at first, especially when it's a franchise that's usually well-known for very endearing characters. However, I'm concerned about being unable to finish a Fire Emblem game should I lose too many units. And resetting is a big flow-breaker for me. I'm glad that Casual Mode exists on FE13 and 14, but at the same time I'd miss what made the franchise so special about it if I don't feel like resetting for the millionth time regardless of my skill level.

I certainly wouldn't mind having it on if it has some sort of dynamic difficulty adjustment depending on your party, rather than using Casual or Phoenix mode along with it. Maybe weakened enemy units and/or alternate story paths would do that for me.


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## brutalitea (Jul 16, 2015)

I just restart the chapter if someone dies. If I ever play Awakening, definitely not playing Casual Mode. The risk of permadeath makes you think harder about your strategy, which I like.


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## Tao (Jul 16, 2015)

Tae said:


> I just restart the chapter if someone dies. If I ever play Awakening, definitely not playing Casual Mode. The risk of permadeath makes you think harder about your strategy, which I like.



I don't see how restarting whenever somebody dies is that different from casual mode.


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## Libra (Jul 17, 2015)

Tao said:


> I don't see how restarting whenever somebody dies is that different from casual mode.



Yeah, I agree. Awakening was the first Fire Emblem game I played and I did so on Casual, but I did my best to keep my characters alive and seriously went "ouch" each time one of them _did_ die. ;-;


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## Ashtot (Jul 17, 2015)

It's different because you have to actually start over and rethink your strategy. If you're playing FE on casual, you're just mindlessly grinding on enemies until the game is over. 

I enjoy casual in Awakening when I want to set up a maxed street pass team, but if I actually want to play the game, casual makes no sense.

But I mean it isn't really a big deal because Awakening isn't challenging until Lunatic.


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## Kirindrake (Jul 17, 2015)

I tend to play with permadeath, but I often reset when they die. I _did_ however start a file with permadeath, letting units actually die when they died. I have nothing against permadeath, seems like an extra challenge for me.


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## Tao (Jul 17, 2015)

Ashtot said:


> It's different because you have to actually start over and rethink your strategy. If you're playing FE on casual, you're just mindlessly grinding on enemies until the game is over.



Yea but you're basically looking at what you did wrong last time, how enemy units reacted to your move and planning around that. If anything, it's the same as having a difficulty level in between casual and regular with the added 'mechanic' of seeing how the enemy would react to x move, or some 'Prince of Persia' mechanic where you just reverse back to a time you weren't screwed.

I'm not saying don't do it or anything, whatever makes you happy really. I just don't see how somebody can talk about casual mode as though it's for 'scrubs' or something but have no problem with resetting after a death.  It's not that far from being the same thing.


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## Ashtot (Jul 17, 2015)

Tao said:


> Yea but you're basically looking at what you did wrong last time, how enemy units reacted to your move and planning around that. If anything, it's the same as having a difficulty level in between casual and regular with the added 'mechanic' of seeing how the enemy would react to x move, or some 'Prince of Persia' mechanic where you just reverse back to a time you weren't screwed.
> 
> I'm not saying don't do it or anything, whatever makes you happy really. I just don't see how somebody can talk about casual mode as though it's for 'scrubs' or something but have no problem with resetting after a death.  It's not that far from being the same thing.



the point is that, like a lot of games, when you screw up, you have to try again. in casual mode that isnt the case.

you could make the same argument for pretty much any game, like mario for instance

instead of restarting the level, they could spawn you where you died, but that's not how the game works, for a good reason

its not that far from the same thing sure, but it is different.

another point is that before awakening, casual didn't exist the way it does in awakening, so people had to play like this, or continue with fewer units, which could possibly make the game harder (but normally didn't really depending on how you played)

i dont remember anyone saying that casual mode was for scrubs, and I don't think it's true, but it is less challenging than classic once you get to an actual difficulty.


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## Libra (Jul 17, 2015)

To be honest; if it wasn't for Casual I'd never have bought and played Awakening. It was my first Fire Emblem game ever so I really like that that option was there (and well, it's _optional_, so not something anyone has to do). It made the game a little less stressful, because as a newbie my head totally exploded from all the info I found on-line (and I like to have _some_ idea of what I'm doing (wrong), so of course I'll go looking for info). So the way I look at it is; an extra copy was sold and they had another happy customer (given that I'm planning on buying the three versions of Fates, yes; I'm a happy customer).

That being said; I do understand why people say the game isn't the same without Permadeath. I even agree with it somewhat. Just that I don't really understand the "resetting when a character dies" argument, because what's so different from Casual then? But I'm seeing some good points pro and con here, so this is definitely an interesting discussion. 

I'm quite sure I'll choose Casual for Fates as well. Phoenix Mode, however, is something I'll pass on, though I don't have a problem with the option being there.


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## Ashtot (Jul 17, 2015)

Libra said:


> To be honest; if it wasn't for Casual I'd never have bought and played Awakening. It was my first Fire Emblem game ever so I really like that that option was there (and well, it's _optional_, so not something anyone has to do). It made the game a little less stressful, because as a newbie my head totally exploded from all the info I found on-line (and I like to have _some_ idea of what I'm doing (wrong), so of course I'll go looking for info). So the way I look at it is; an extra copy was sold and they had another happy customer (given that I'm planning on buying the three versions of Fates, yes; I'm a happy customer).
> 
> That being said; I do understand why people say the game isn't the same without Permadeath. I even agree with it somewhat. Just that I don't really understand the "resetting when a character dies" argument, because what's so different from Casual then? But I'm seeing some good points pro and con here, so this is definitely an interesting discussion.
> 
> I'm quite sure I'll choose Casual for Fates as well. Phoenix Mode, however, is something I'll pass on, though I don't have a problem with the option being there.



idk if you read what i posted but essentially what i said is that thats the way games just are

you screw up, you start over

saying you dont understand the difference or why there is a difference is like saying that games in general should let you continue from where you made your mistake without any kind of consequence


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## Bellsprout (Jul 17, 2015)

In this case, I'm pro permadeath. 

One of the main points of the Fire Emblem series, in my opinion, is growing attached to your units as they become more powerful and, yes, interact with you and with other units (insert waifu joke here). It's this attachment to your characters that drives you to be the most proficient strategist you possibly can -- after all, not only are there lives on the line, but they're the lives of characters you've gotten to know and care about. This isn't Advance Wars where you can simply build another unit with the exact same function -- every character in Fire Emblem is unique in their own way and once they're gone, they're gone for good outside of very rare and specific circumstances.

In the case where you make a mistake, the consequences are two fold -- you've lost not only a unit that was a valuable asset to your army, but you may have lost an engaging or lovable character in the process. And yes, you can trivialize this point by simply restarting a chapter upon losing a valued unit, but even then it raises another question -- do I want to progress further in the game and leave this character behind, or do I want to go back and try my best to keep that character alive to see how they may develop later on? 

It's a fascinating case study of game design when you really stop to think about it.


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## KarlaKGB (Jul 17, 2015)

itt: casual gamers who need to be babysat thru games


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## inkling (Jul 17, 2015)

sometimes i restart if somebody i really like dies, but I don't do it often. I usually just go with the flow unless its a really terrible/frustrating mistake. But I like the way the game is designed. I'm not sure it would really work any other way since you can only have so many characters at one time.


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## WonderK (Jul 17, 2015)

I prefer to have perma death on. It makes you actually care more for your units and not use them as fodder for the hard stages.


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## Tao (Jul 17, 2015)

Ashtot said:


> the point is that, like a lot of games, when you screw up, you have to try again. in casual mode that isnt the case.
> 
> -snip-
> 
> i dont remember anyone saying that casual mode was for scrubs, and I don't think it's true, but it is less challenging than classic once you get to an actual difficulty.



Yea, true, which is why I compared restarting on deaths to sort of like an 'in between' difficulty from regular and casual. You have to win a battle with everybody alive unlike casual, but you get to try that level as many times as you want unlike playing 'regularly'.


Nobody directly said it's for 'scrubs' etc, it's just the way some people talk about it sounds like it's implied.


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## riummi (Jul 17, 2015)

I did casual because i only had one save slot. (i shared with my sister who got 2 ;u I am more of a casual gamer but it did get a bit too easy :/ it was also my first fe game i played(awakening)


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## pillow bunny (Jul 17, 2015)

They should just get rid of classic.

The "proper" way to play the game is to reset whenever a character dies. Classic is pointless if no characters are going to die. It just doesn't work, so the best option is to rebalance casual. They can't keep both modes, because then there can't be like, instant death attacks and stuff (ruins classic) or weakish enemies that most likely won't kill any units (ruins casual). Either one mode will be good and the other unplayable, or both will be pretty bad. It doesn't matter that classic is a series tradition; they've gotten rid of some other stuff like weapon uses, since Awakening made it into a minor annoyance affecting half the units rather than an actual gameplay mechanic.

Actually, you know what? They might as well just get rid of the game part and make it 100% a dating sim. There's not even any strategy anymore, it's just Uwu Marry your kawaii desu Waifu while occasionally killing Evil dudes XD


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## Ashtot (Jul 17, 2015)

pillow bunny said:


> They should just get rid of classic.
> 
> The "proper" way to play the game is to reset whenever a character dies. Classic is pointless if no characters are going to die. It just doesn't work, so the best option is to rebalance casual. They can't keep both modes, because then there can't be like, instant death attacks and stuff (ruins classic) or weakish enemies that most likely won't kill any units (ruins casual). Either one mode will be good and the other unplayable, or both will be pretty bad. It doesn't matter that classic is a series tradition; they've gotten rid of some other stuff like weapon uses, since Awakening made it into a minor annoyance affecting half the units rather than an actual gameplay mechanic.
> 
> Actually, you know what? They might as well just get rid of the game part and make it 100% a dating sim. There's not even any strategy anymore, it's just Uwu Marry your kawaii desu Waifu while occasionally killing Evil dudes XD



nothing that you just said makes any sense


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## BellGreen (Jul 17, 2015)

pillow bunny said:


> Actually, you know what? They might as well just get rid of the game part and make it 100% a dating sim. There's not even any strategy anymore, it's just Uwu Marry your kawaii desu Waifu while occasionally killing Evil dudes XD



Do people seriously still complain about this (not targetting you personally)? That's a completely OPTIONAL feature of the game and it's annoying seeing others complain about something they don't have to do =P


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## pillow bunny (Jul 17, 2015)

Ashtot said:


> nothing that you just said makes any sense



i know i just wanted tbt bells and this was the first topic i saw


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## pillow bunny (Jul 18, 2015)

BellGreen said:


> Do people seriously still complain about this (not targetting you personally)? That's a completely OPTIONAL feature of the game and it's annoying seeing others complain about something they don't have to do =P



that's stupid. the gameplay and story clearly suffer at the expense of Uwu we must have 10,000 support conversationz, quantity over quality xd lol. if the rest of the game was actually good then I'd be willing to ignore them, but they're not so yeah. "it's optional" is a terrible argument because it's part of the main game and you have to view them to unlock half the characters, and there's even one scripted marriage that happens during the plot. no, it's not okay because you can skip it. if you don't like part of a book can you skip it and pretend it didn't happen? fates is apparently transphobic or something, is it okay because it's optional?

it's not an optional feature unless you consider the plot an optional feature. the hubba tester is an example of an optional feature.


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## pokedude729 (Jul 18, 2015)

^ How does the story suffer? It is a top notch story with a bunch of twists and turns


Spoiler



Like how Robin was specifically created to be a vessel for Grima



And the gameplay is still solid as the other games (or at least as far as I got in the other games)


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## KarlaKGB (Jul 18, 2015)

huh ofc theres strategy in who u pair with who


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## Tao (Jul 18, 2015)

pillow bunny said:


> fates is apparently transphobic or something, is it okay because it's optional?



The thing about it saying 'gays are wrong and need to be cured'?


Yea, that looks to be nothing more than Tumblr taking stuff out of context so they have something to be butthurt about (I mean, this 'argument' literally started on Tumblr). I read the overview of what happens during that 'questline' (?) and it's one of those things where if it happened to a straight Caucasian male, nobody would care because they're not a minority. There's literally nothing wrong with it, it's just a silly questline.




Spoiler:  The event I'm talking about



This is the general gist of it from what I remember:

A lesbian character becomes 'weak at the knees' and useless around pretty girls. She's looking for a cure (this is the exact point where Tumblr took it out of context) so that she will be able to act cool around other girls instead of turning into a bumbling idiot. At the end of the event she's still a lesbian, she just gets 'cured' and can talk to girls now.

I've seen that character type hundreds of times for straight males in Anime and nobody says a thing.


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## Ashtot (Jul 18, 2015)

Tao said:


> The thing about it saying 'gays are wrong and need to be cured'?
> 
> 
> Yea, that looks to be nothing more than Tumblr taking stuff out of context so they have something to be butthurt about (I mean, this 'argument' literally started on Tumblr). I read the overview of what happens during that 'questline' (?) and it's one of those things where if it happened to a straight Caucasian male, nobody would care because they're not a minority. There's literally nothing wrong with it, it's just a silly questline.
> ...



yeah there were a bunch of idiots spreading misinformation

they're not transphobic or anything like that lol

its japan, if anything, america censors all of their transgender and homosexual etc characters


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## Trundle (Jul 19, 2015)

Ashtot said:


> yeah there were a bunch of idiots spreading misinformation
> 
> they're not transphobic or anything like that lol
> 
> its japan, if anything, america censors all of their transgender and homosexual etc characters



the reason she needed the "cure" is because she literally couldn't fight on the battlefield if she saw other girls and obviously that's a pretty easy way to die


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## Tao (Jul 19, 2015)

Trundle said:


> the reason she needed the "cure" is because she literally couldn't fight on the battlefield if she saw other girls and obviously that's a pretty easy way to die



It was still a misinformed argument though. 

She didn't want a cure to stop being a lesbian, she wanted a cure to stop being that bumbling idiot character who can't function properly around girls that we've seen a bazillion times as a straight male character.


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## radical6 (Jul 19, 2015)

Ashtot said:


> yeah there were a bunch of idiots spreading misinformation
> 
> they're not transphobic or anything like that lol
> 
> its japan, if anything, america censors all of their transgender and homosexual etc characters



I'm not sure where transphobia came from. I think Japan views gender much more differently than the west does - I guess it's more... enforced. It's actually very common in games that theres always one boy character (this case, Foleo) who dresses up very feminine. Sometimes they pretend they're a girl to avoid harassment, and later in the game you usually find out they're actually a guy. The west views this as transphobic, (because they're actually a girl to the west) while not understanding Japan's cultural differences. 

It's not actually transmisogynist. It's stupid to view Foleo as a trans girl anyway, when he says a lot that he's a boy. I don't know why these people would use Foleo as their "trans representation" anyway, Foleo is a horrible example. It reminds me of Chihiro from SDR2.

As for Soleil, you can't deny that it's stupid she can't marry /any/ girls at all. Not even female kamui. I find it annoying honestly, and I'll probably be avoiding any of her male S supports. It makes me upset that she flirts more than that gay Tharja clone does, yet she can't even marry female kamui. 

Most people have a problem with the support because male kamui drugs her without her consent. Yeah it's to help her, but still honestly they could've written that support another way. 

Basically, people are insulted that the most biggest girl flirter in the game is basically limited to men for marriage. 

I don't really like the gay options to be honest, Zero is apparently a masochist or something? Uh okay. And I get the Tharja clone? No thank you. Tbh if we got Soleil instead of the ugly tharja clone I wouldn't have cared about this game.


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## Tao (Jul 19, 2015)

justice said:


> Basically, people are insulted that the most biggest girl flirter in the game is basically limited to men for marriage.




I'm sure that this wasn't intended, but that's actually pretty accurate to how things actually work. Not everybody swings both ways.

I mean, they probably didn't limit it on purpose (or at least for that reason) but it makes a whole lot more sense than something like Skyrim (for example) where the entire kingdom is bisexual.

In my opinion, they should expand this limitation and make certain characters strictly homosexual as well so that when I decide I want to marry a certain character, uh-oh, they're gay! Off to the friend zone I go...



But saying that, I don't play Fire Emblem for the gripping dating simulation. It's probably the part of the game I give the least ****s about.


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## radical6 (Jul 19, 2015)

Tao said:


> I'm sure that this wasn't intended, but that's actually pretty accurate to how things actually work. Not everybody swings both ways.
> 
> I mean, they probably didn't limit it on purpose (or at least for that reason) but it makes a whole lot more sense than something like Skyrim (for example) where the entire kingdom is bisexual.
> 
> ...



I don't mind if they make gay only characters, but it's just weird because she's a lot better than the Tharja clone IMO. I don't really want to marry a stalker. I know Nintendo is taking steps, but I feel like it would've made more sense for her to be the gay option instead of a literal Tharja clone.

But yeah, I don't care too much about marriage. I mostly only care for stats. I hear most of the hoshido kids suck though so lol


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## Ashtot (Jul 20, 2015)

justice said:


> I'm not sure where transphobia came from. I think Japan views gender much more differently than the west does - I guess it's more... enforced. It's actually very common in games that theres always one boy character (this case, Foleo) who dresses up very feminine. Sometimes they pretend they're a girl to avoid harassment, and later in the game you usually find out they're actually a guy. The west views this as transphobic, (because they're actually a girl to the west) while not understanding Japan's cultural differences.
> 
> It's not actually transmisogynist. It's stupid to view Foleo as a trans girl anyway, when he says a lot that he's a boy. I don't know why these people would use Foleo as their "trans representation" anyway, Foleo is a horrible example. It reminds me of Chihiro from SDR2.
> 
> ...



this isnt like roofies or something its just a silly part of the support, soleil even goes on to use it for her own purposes later on

- - - Post Merge - - -



Ashtot said:


> this isnt like roofies or something its just a silly part of the support, soleil even goes on to use it for her own purposes later on



also yeah its like rui in gatchaman

- - - Post Merge - - -

but yeah i agree its stupid that she doesnt get s supports with girls


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## pokedude729 (Aug 19, 2015)

How did we get onto the topic about how Fates allows for Same sex Marriage?


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## Midoriya (Aug 19, 2015)

pokedude729 said:


> How did we get onto the topic about how Fates allows for Same sex Marriage?



Idk, I thought this was a thread discussing Permadeath in Fire Emblem... 0_o...


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## N e s s (Aug 20, 2015)

Permadeath, the most stressful elimate in video game history.


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## Midoriya (Aug 20, 2015)

TheAhPoCawdOh said:


> Permadeath, the most stressful elimate in video game history.



Yes, especially if you developed close ties to your units


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## AppleCracker (Aug 20, 2015)

I always play with Permadeath on.

But if my waifu dies, I'm pressing that power button 

Oh, and Virion. Because I love Virion.


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## Midoriya (Aug 20, 2015)

AppleCracker said:


> I always play with Permadeath on.
> 
> But if my waifu dies, I'm pressing that power button
> 
> Oh, and Virion. Because I love Virion.




Yes, same for me.  If someone important to myself, but not necessarily to the game on my team dies, I restart the system.


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## Ashtot (Aug 25, 2015)

pokedude729 said:


> How did we get onto the topic about how Fates allows for Same sex Marriage?



because a tard turned it into a social justice issue


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