# Why so narrow minded?



## J087 (Nov 10, 2013)

I came across this slightly disturbing message while sailing back home from Tortimer's island.

First of all, what makes him think we'd be interested in his daughter, and secondly, why is he being so narrow minded? I really hoped the game would be more openminded about relationships after they introduced the option for characters to wear clothing and haircuts of the opposite gender.


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## deardeer (Nov 10, 2013)

Haha omg, tbf he says so many disturbing things, it's worse if you're a girl xD


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## Ankhes (Nov 10, 2013)

That's just who Kapp'n is, imo.  He is who he is and thinks the way he does simply...because.    I don't think there is any insult intended or anything.  He's just being Kapp'n.


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## EmmaFrost (Nov 10, 2013)

You're right about it being hetero-normative, but it's a video game, they always are. What I find even MORE narrow-minded about Animal Crossing is how everyone is, by default, white. I could write an entire sociology paper on the poor message that sends. You should be able to customize your character's looks in the beginning of the game similar to in The Sims.


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## Ankhes (Nov 10, 2013)

Illyana said:


> You're right about it being hetero-normative, but it's a video game, they always are. What I find even MORE narrow-minded about Animal Crossing is how everyone is, by default, white. I could write an entire sociology paper on the poor message that sends. You should be able to customize your character's looks in the beginning of the game similar to in The Sims.



That element surprised me, too.  I am surprised by the lack of skin-colour choices just as I am annoyed when I play an RPG and HAVE to be a male.  How difficult is it to give you the opportunity to be female?  Or a darker or lighter skin-tone?


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## Rendra (Nov 10, 2013)

I'm white, but I do think that you should be able to choose your skin color. Why Nintendo can't you choose your skin color?


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## Liebenswert (Nov 10, 2013)

I have to agree with what's said above - Kapp'n just says stuff like that. To see for yourself try making a girl character 

And Illyana said - most video games send similar messages.


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## EmmaFrost (Nov 10, 2013)

Another thing I found really problematic, unrelated to the game itself but related to this forum, was a bunch of presumably white girls complaining about how "disgusting" their tans were and asking about the quickest way to be rid of them because they were omg so gross!! A naturally darker skinned person who worked hard to tan their character to make it more accurately represent them may have read those comments and gotten quite offended.

I'm white, btw. I'm just someone who is very aware of and annoyed by white privilege and its presence in video games, I've written about it in the past.


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## J087 (Nov 10, 2013)

Ankhes said:


> That's just who Kapp'n is, imo.  He is who he is and thinks the way he does simply...because.    I don't think there is any insult intended or anything.  He's just being Kapp'n.



I don't find it insulting. I respect, but pity, their way of thinking. The same situation is created when a villager rumours: "I think (this boy) and (this girl) make a nice couple". But in the end games usually adapt to the bigger audience. The same goes for the skin issue.

If they don't want to adapt to it being 2013 they should avoid such comments from villagers all together.


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## haisu (Nov 10, 2013)

kapp'n's a weird one man, has anyone seen that butt crack song he sings? i was in horror when i saw that omg



Ankhes said:


> just as I am annoyed when I play an RPG and HAVE to be a male.  How difficult is it to give you the opportunity to be female?


this is me every time (sly dig at harvest moon)


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## Retro Rider (Nov 10, 2013)

Haaahh, I love Kapp'n <3


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## MadisonCrossing (Nov 10, 2013)

I agree with everything said above.  We should choose what color our skin should be, first of all, and what's so wrong with a deep tan?  It'll go away eventually, so I don't see what people have to complain about, but I do think that choosing your skin color should be in the next Animal Crossing game, if there is one.
Kapp'n has always been a strange guy, and yes, it is more awkward as a girl.  I remember everything he would say on City Folk and Wild World; I always wondered why Nintendo made his personality like that.  I don't want to go on too much, though, because it looks like a big argument could break out any minute now.


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## Zanessa (Nov 10, 2013)

I think you guys are focusing on things that really aren't a big deal. :/


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## Ankhes (Nov 10, 2013)

Hah!  That butt crack song cracks me up!  No pun intended...


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## Batossi (Nov 10, 2013)

Kapp'n has always had boundary issues, so you laugh and learn to take him with a grain of salt.  However - would you want an adult speaking to your kids/younger siblings like that irl?  We have all age groups who enjoy this game; at best it humorizes poor judgement (Aw he's just Kapp'n... kind of a "talking-turtles-will-be-turtles"); but at worst it normalizes & desensitizes our youngsters to inappropriate banter.


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## ForgottenT (Nov 10, 2013)

You?re over thinking it, and taking it too serious imo.


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## Zanessa (Nov 10, 2013)

ForgottenT said:


> You?re over thinking it, and taking it too serious imo.



I agree with this. It's not even that big of a deal.


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## Bea (Nov 10, 2013)

errrrrrrr she's young enough to struggle with basic pronunciation so I would say we should NEVER be that 'open minded'.

she's a child.


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## radical6 (Nov 10, 2013)

really wish games would stop assuming im straight and realize there are more genders than boy and girl

theyre not overthinking it???
i would love for a game with lesbian characters. gay characters. trans* characters. but i know this wont happen now sadly. it doesnt hurt to push for it though. but this wont happen in ac for a while.


and kapp'n is pretty gross get away from me you got a wife you big loser


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## EmmaFrost (Nov 10, 2013)

Bea said:


> errrrrrrr she's young enough to struggle with basic pronunciation so I would say we should NEVER be that 'open minded'.
> 
> she's a child.


I don't think the majority of us are even remotely referring to the age thing.

And annoyance over the inability to customize your character to have the same skin color as you is overthinking? You must be white. Your privilege is showing.


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## Zanessa (Nov 10, 2013)

tsundere said:


> really wish games would stop assuming im straight and realize there are more genders than boy and girl
> 
> theyre not overthinking it???
> i would love for a game with lesbian characters. gay characters. trans* characters. but i know this wont happen now sadly. it doesnt hurt to push for it though. but this wont happen in ac for a while.



If they would do something like that, this game and every game ever, would get lots of controversey. It's always going to be a controversal topic and it will cost the company and creators a lot of customers, so it's better to stay away from that topic all together.


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## Prisma (Nov 10, 2013)

Kapp'n is....
.....


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## Ankhes (Nov 10, 2013)

LMAO!  And when you work at Brewster's doesn't he come in and say something like, "Hey, ye wee pretty thing, give me you know what!"  

Or something close to that.  I laughed so hard when I saw that one!


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## Bea (Nov 10, 2013)

Illyana said:


> You must be white. Your privilege is showing.



This right here is the least tolerant thing said in this thread.


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## Batossi (Nov 10, 2013)

ZanessaGaily said:


> tsundere said:
> 
> 
> > really wish games would stop assuming im straight and realize there are more genders than boy and girl
> ...



On the issue of gender, I think ACNL has done pretty well.  You're not forced into either role, nor are the items locked according to perceived gender.  As a male character, you can wear skirts, & girl accessories.  The same is true for females in reverse.  Plus it affords a wide variety of "unisex" options.  And can't you unlock gender opposite hair styles too?  

I know gender is not simply bilateral for many, but more on a slider for some.  But am I wrong to presume that it falls more toward one end or the other - no matter how slight?  Work from that premise and accessorize to your comfort zone.  Or is that an option not provided for within the existing parameters?  Creative shopping! ^^  Though if you're also a person of color... -.-


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## Gumihou (Nov 10, 2013)

Wolfie said:


> Kapp'n is....
> .....View attachment 16999


lol'd.


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## Batossi (Nov 10, 2013)

ZanessaGaily said:


> I think you guys are focusing on things that really aren't a big deal. :/



Its only not a "big deal" to you, and those who share your view.  Apparently there are others who'd disagree.



ForgottenT said:


> You?re over thinking it, and taking it too serious imo.



I respect your opinion, but its _*my*_ opinion that we don't think things through enough which is why we - as Americans - come off looking and sounding so ignorantly...


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## Zanessa (Nov 10, 2013)

Illyana said:


> I don't think the majority of us are even remotely referring to the age thing.
> 
> And annoyance over the inability to customize your character to have the same skin color as you is overthinking? You must be white. Your privilege is showing.



I'm black and I can really care less about a slider. 
Try again?

Not trying to make this about race, but I'm just saying. 

I asked my sister and she, who is black too, said it could just be an option, but she'd never use it. 

So.. there you go. Some people would use it, others wouldn't. But skin tone sliders/presets could be an option.


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## Prisma (Nov 10, 2013)

On a note aside from kapp'n being a little crazy.....
_or a lot_

They actually are open minded in japan atleast to me Since Gracie is male in japan and they changed it here in america so gracie would be female because "WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN?" Apparently. 
  Not trying to be rude about america or anything but thats kinda sad we nit picked about WHO GRACIE IS.


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## DJStarstryker (Nov 10, 2013)

Illyana said:


> You're right about it being hetero-normative, but it's a video game, they always are. What I find even MORE narrow-minded about Animal Crossing is how everyone is, by default, white. I could write an entire sociology paper on the poor message that sends. You should be able to customize your character's looks in the beginning of the game similar to in The Sims.



Well, technically because it's a Japanese game, everyone's all Japanese. Not white.  

TBH, this happens a LOT in video games though. American developed video games that let you make a custom character *usually* have skin color sliders nowadays. It's much more rare for Japanese developed video games. Why? Because Japan really is 98-99% Japanese only. There isn't really as much racial diversity here, so people forget about it. It's not at all an excuse. That's just how it is. I'm white, but here in Japan, I'm actually an extreme minority. So much so that when I go to concerts, I've had people ask to take pictures of me because they think it's weird that a white gaijin likes *insert celebrity*. It almost makes me a minor celebrity sometimes just due to my race and it's really odd. 

Diversity is so much NOT a thing in Japan too that sometimes when non-Japanese characters appear in anime, they always really stick out. Maybe they have giant noses or have really hugely thick eyebrows or have some weird stereotypes (black characters in anime and games almost always serve as comedic relief or are scary thugs). 

I must say that hetero-normative is a huge thing in Japan, even more than elsewhere. If you are gay in Japan, you're expected to keep it on the down low. You just don't talk about it at all. If people find out, most of the time they don't have a problem with it, but they don't want you talking about it. Gay couples also can't legally get married in Japan and they don't get any of the benefits that hetero married couples get. 

So yeah... while I love Japan, I have to point out that a lot of the stuff you guys are talking about is largely because Animal Crossing is a Japanese developed game.


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## Prisma (Nov 10, 2013)

This. ^^^

 The only thing that shined light on all of this.
You have my respect


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## radical6 (Nov 10, 2013)

Batossi said:


> On the issue of gender, I think ACNL has done pretty well.  You're not forced into either role, nor are the items locked according to perceived gender.  As a male character, you can wear skirts, & girl accessories.  The same is true for females in reverse.  Plus it affords a wide variety of "unisex" options.  And can't you unlock gender opposite hair styles too?
> 
> I know gender is not simply bilateral for many, but more on a slider for some.  But am I wrong to presume that it falls more toward one end or the other - no matter how slight?  Work from that premise and accessorize to your comfort zone.  Or is that an option not provided for within the existing parameters?  Creative shopping! ^^  Though if you're also a person of color... -.-


yeah, i think what ac added with clothes was really great! but mabel says some negative comments if you buy the other genders clothes for no reason? also i honestly dont think ac needs a "are you a boy or a girl" anymore tbh. 



Illyana said:


> I don't think the majority of us are even remotely referring to the age thing.
> 
> And annoyance over the inability to customize your character to have the same skin color as you is overthinking? You must be white. Your privilege is showing.


ily

its kinda funny how pokemon added the race option but not the clothes stuff ac added and vice versa. come on nintendo


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## DJStarstryker (Nov 10, 2013)

Wolfie said:


> They actually are open minded in japan atleast to me Since Gracie is male in japan and they changed it here in america so gracie would be female because "WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN?" Apparently.
> Not trying to be rude about america or anything but thats kinda sad we nit picked about WHO GRACIE IS.



Because dressing outside of gender norms is not looked at as wrong in Japan. If you go to Harajuku or Yoyogi or Shibuya, especially on weekends, I can guarantee you that you will see some guys wearing skirts and makeup. If you go to events with cosplayers, that "sexy girl" cosplayer might actually be a cross dressing guy who is just really, really good with makeup. There's also guys who cosplay as girl characters for events without bothering to shave their legs or anything. Unlike the US, where at anime cons when this happens this is for a joke, people actually aren't trying to be a joke when they do this. And no one says "eww gross" or anything like that. 

Japan just has... really weird ideas of what's OK and what's not for gender and other things, compared to most western countries.


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## Zanessa (Nov 10, 2013)

tsundere said:


> yeah, i think what ac added with clothes was really great! but mabel says some negative comments if you buy the other genders clothes for no reason? also i honestly dont think ac needs a "are you a boy or a girl" anymore tbh.



Sorry, but I would not like to be a boy or male ever. Only in games where the male character is the main character. But we need the choice. 
And maybe it's because there have really never been humans in the town, so when she sees a male try on dresses, she's surprised.


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## Ankhes (Nov 10, 2013)

This forum is for game discussion more so than cultural aspects of it, imo, but I don't take it too seriously.  Remember when Japan made the King Kong vrs. Godzilla movie have two endings to cater to whichever audience went to see it?  Those who wanted Kong to triumph had that and those who wanted Godzilla to triumph had that.

Whatever makes the consumers happiest, in their view, and brings in the most money.  This is undoubtedly a commercial venture and probably won't change.  

I love it regardless of the flaws.  And Kapp'n himself admitted that the "plate on his head is cracked."


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## radical6 (Nov 10, 2013)

ZanessaGaily said:


> Sorry, but I would not like to be a boy or male ever. Only in games where the male character is the main character. But we need the choice.
> And maybe it's because there have really never been humans in the town, so when she sees a male try on dresses, she's surprised.


?? you could just be whatever you want? the way i imagine it is choose your hairstyle and go from there. it would be better if the game didnt restrict you to boy/girl? but i doubt they would ever do that

also but nintendo really didnt have to program that in tho. her sister in the hat shop if i recall doesnt say anything like that


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## Batossi (Nov 10, 2013)

Ankhes said:


> This forum is for game discussion more so than cultural aspects of it, imo, but I don't take it too seriously.  Remember when Japan made the King Kong vrs. Godzilla movie have two endings to cater to whichever audience went to see it?  Those who wanted Kong to triumph had that and those who wanted Godzilla to triumph had that.
> 
> Whatever makes the consumers happiest, in their view, and brings in the most money.  This is undoubtedly a commercial venture and probably won't change.
> 
> I love it regardless of the flaws.  And Kapp'n himself admitted that the "plate on his head is cracked."



The "cultural aspects" are inherently a part of the game as much as the game play itself, and thus should be open for discussion.  And of course its a business venture and the most lucrative model would get the nod for retailing.  But as you also pointed out "whatever makes the consumer happiest..." would be unknown to them unless we let them know. =}  Otherwise there would be no evolution in the industry, and we'd all still be playing Pong.  lol  Are we saying we won't play a game we've liked enough to already invest in?  Obviously not.  Are there things/options that would make _some_ of us happier to do so?  Absolutely.  I, for one, am at a crossroads with this franchise.  I'm weighing whether the perceived issues as I see them, are deal breakers for me, because my money *can* be spent elsewhere.  I'm just sharing some of my thoughts in an attempt to flesh out other points I can consider to that end.  Thank you for sharing yours. =}


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## Zanessa (Nov 10, 2013)

tsundere said:


> ?? you could just be whatever you want? the way i imagine it is choose your hairstyle and go from there. it would be better if the game didnt restrict you to boy/girl? but i doubt they would ever do that
> 
> also but nintendo really didnt have to program that in tho. her sister in the hat shop if i recall doesnt say anything like that



I personally like the whole "are you a boy or girl thing". That's what I was saying. 
I guess not but maybe the translation was screwed up? Maybe it's different in the Japanese version?


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## VioletPrincess (Nov 10, 2013)

Illyana said:


> You should be able to customize your character's looks in the beginning of the game similar to in The Sims.


You are so right about that.  I was just thinking this yesterday.  That would be great.


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## Ankhes (Nov 10, 2013)

Batossi said:


> The "cultural aspects" are inherently a part of the game as much as the game play itself, and thus should be open for discussion.  And of course its a business venture and the most lucrative model would get the nod for retailing.  But as you also pointed out "whatever makes the consumer happiest..." would be unknown to them unless we let them know. =}  Otherwise there would be no evolution in the industry, and we'd all still be playing Pong.  lol  Are we saying we won't play a game we've liked enough to already invest in?  Obviously not.  Are there things/options that would make _some_ of us happier to do so?  Absolutely.  I, for one, am at a crossroads with this franchise.  I'm weighing whether the perceived issues as I see them, are deal breakers for me, because my money *can* be spent elsewhere.  I'm just sharing some of my thoughts in an attempt to flesh out other points I can consider to that end.  Thank you for sharing yours. =}



And thank you for sharing yours.  I said "more so" for the discussion.  I just would rather have such a subject matter much more thoroughly discussed in a more fitting place and get much more out of the discussion than the walking on eggshells that has to happen here.  I belong to some terrific forums and lively discussion is wonderful.  But here it seems to be bringing out more than the franchise intends or cares about, sadly.  

I don't think other points can be fleshed out or the mods will come down like the proverbial Sword of Damacles.


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## Stargazer741 (Nov 10, 2013)

> This whole thread




You're all overthinking this. Stop it, alright?


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## puppy (Nov 10, 2013)

im still very disappointed that something so _incredibly simple_ as skin color choice is not a thing in animal crossing.
even pokemon has it now /:
i was one of those people that left my DS open for so many hours a day on the island to get a tan, which is incredibly boring when all you want to do is go mainland and improve your town. this really ruined my experience of the game.


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## Zanessa (Nov 10, 2013)

puppy said:


> im still very disappointed that something so _incredibly simple_ as skin color choice is not a thing in animal crossing.
> even pokemon has it now /:
> i was one of those people that left my DS open for so many hours a day on the island to get a tan, which is incredibly boring when all you want to do is go mainland and improve your town. this really ruined my experience of the game.



I hope you're trolling.
If skin color is the difference between you enjoying and not enjoying this game, maybe you just really didn't like it.

You don't have to stand on the beach and tan. I got tans just from doing my mayoral duties in my town on sunny days. And I hated them. DX


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## PinkWater (Nov 10, 2013)

Yeah, there really is no excuse when it comes to the skin color thing. I guess Nintendo expects you to use you Mii for a skin tone change, but that's still a little lazy. I also hope next game we have more eye color options. We can dye our hair bright purple, but not get yellow contacts?


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## puppy (Nov 10, 2013)

ZanessaGaily said:


> I hope you're trolling.
> If skin color is the difference between you enjoying and not enjoying this game, maybe you just really didn't like it.
> 
> You don't have to stand on the beach and tan. I got tans just from doing my mayoral duties in my town on sunny days. And I hated them. DX


um no im actually serious and i dont appreciate the implication
you can only tan mainland in summer, so if it happens to not be summer, then yeah, you have to be on the island.
and it ruined my experience of the game because it wasnt fun being stuck on the island just to get my character the skin tone i want her when everyone else can just hold an umbrella or something if they dont want to get darker.


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## Zanessa (Nov 10, 2013)

puppy said:


> um no im actually serious and i dont appreciate the implication
> you can only tan mainland in summer, so if it happens to not be summer, then yeah, you have to be on the island.
> and it ruined my experience of the game because it wasnt fun being stuck on the island just to get my character the skin tone i want her when everyone else can just hold an umbrella or something if they dont want to get darker.



But once you get a tan, you can keep it, no? 
And sorry, but I've never heard of anyone experience ruined by something as small as skin color. .-.
Besides, you can just do something else when you go to the beach. You don't have to stand there for hours doing nothing..


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## MDofDarkheart (Nov 10, 2013)

Harvest Moon has changed recently. Their are boy and girl characters now.
Have been since the GBA versions, FOMT and MFOMT were girls only!
After that they gave the boy or girl option.

Animal Crossing is the most fun for Cross-dressing though!
Even if you can Cross-dress in Harvest Moon ANB!


Some of the things that K'napp says are funny, some are creepy, and some are cute.
I tend to take everything he says or sings with a grain of salt.


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## Ankhes (Nov 10, 2013)

MDofDarkheart said:


> Harvest Moon has changed recently. Their are boy and girl characters now.
> Have been since the GBA versions, FOMT and MFOMT were girls only!
> After that they gave the boy or girl option.
> 
> ...



Yes!  Especially the end.  I like Kapp'n, regardless, and he's true to himself in that he just behaves as if he enjoys being...himself.  I just plain love this game.  Nothing is going to please everybody, but we all must enjoy it or we wouldn't play it and come here.  

Now, I'm off to the Island.  I needs me some bells.  And oh, yeah, I wonder if I'll get the "Butt Crack" song.


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## Sena (Nov 10, 2013)

ZanessaGaily said:


> But once you get a tan, you can keep it, no?
> And sorry, but I've never heard of anyone experience ruined by something as small as skin color. .-.
> Besides, you can just do something else when you go to the beach. You don't have to stand there for hours doing nothing..



Clarify, if you would, please, whether you are vehemently against the concept of a skin color choice option being introduced in future games, or if you are simply playing devil's advocate.

It's not about what it does for the "experience" of the game. It's about the implication of only allowing players to be represented as a singular skin tone, pale skin, in a game that allows you to customize pretty much every other aspect of your player character and the game itself. It's about the subtle categorization of any other skintones into one of "otherness," an anomaly. 
It doesn't matter if _you_ don't care about not being able to choose your skin tone in a game. It doesn't even matter if you've never heard the complaint before. The option of skin color choice should be standard in games like Animal Crossing by now. It benefits people who are not pale-skinned and has no detrimental effect on people who are. There is simply no reason why the choice should not be there.


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## J087 (Nov 10, 2013)

> You're all overthinking this



I disagree. We're not over thinking the game's flaws, we're discussing further development possibilities to a wonderful game that's open to such discussion. Animal Crossing came a long way in meeting today's world and in trying to resemble today's society, but you can't be 100% successful in that because there are always disagreements. 

Every minority that doesn't fit into the ideal image of the world, based on gender, color or preference, should not feel offended if they are not being represented in a game. Yes, we can address the flaw and we can discuss over it. But in the end it's still a game that needs to appeal a big audience in order to be sold. At least these flaws, in positive sense, are opening discussion and for that I'm thankful. 

_(but Kapp'n is still remains a weird person)_


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## MDofDarkheart (Nov 10, 2013)

On the skintone topic: Animal Crossing was originally made in Japan where most people are pale.
Yes, I agree that a skintone option could be added to the game.

Though it might be little changes over time like with Pokemon X/Y.
They didn't give any character customizing in Pokemon until X/Y were made.

So maybe they are trying to figure out for the next Animal Crossing game what players would love to be added to it.
Please don't assume that something will never happen in a game series.
After all, the tanning would not have happened if players didn't want to have a tan after visiting the island.

So while you can complain about the skintone issue all you want, unless you tell it too Nintendo, they won't hear it!

Again, I agree that players being able to choose a skintone would be a good idea.

For me though, it doesn't ruin the game at all that I can't pick a skintone though.


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## puppy (Nov 10, 2013)

ZanessaGaily said:


> But once you get a tan, you can keep it, no?
> And sorry, but I've never heard of anyone experience ruined by something as small as skin color. .-.
> Besides, you can just do something else when you go to the beach. You don't have to stand there for hours doing nothing..


no, you cant just keep tans if its not summer. you have to keep making trips to the island.
and the thing is i dont want to do anything on the island. its so limited.

skin color is one of a few things that ruined my experience in animal crossing
one thing you may be right about is that maybe i dont like the game after all. i used to, i really did, but now looking back at it all i see is things that should have been done better

i have XY so its whatevs


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## Twisk (Nov 11, 2013)

I agree that you should be able to choose your own skin color. You could either choose your appearance at the beginning of the game (though it would end the tradition of Rover's/Kapp'n's questions determining your appearance) or it could be an option of customization available at Harriet's like hair color and eye color is. The former would be ideal, but either would at least be better than being forced to tan on the island to get a skin color that one feels comfortable with.

I guess everyone who feels this way should write/contact Nintendo to make it known to them that we want this change (or participate in a petition?).

As for Kapp'n .. he can be annoying, but I've been exposed to his banter since I was a little kid, and I don't think it had an extreme negative effect on me or anything.


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## Momi (Nov 11, 2013)

I always understood Kapp'n as a very old fashioned man: His manner of speech and topics suggest it.

At least, Mabel and Labelle stop questioning your way of dressing once they become more comfortable with you, and Harriet is the one to suggest you cut your hair differently.

Also, at least with my villagers, they usually stick to the pronoun 'they', and make the same comments regardless of gender. c:


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## Pimmy (Nov 11, 2013)

Wait wait wait wait a second

what exactly is "close-minded" about Kap'n saying his daughter, who must be like 4 or 5, is too young to date??? Unless I'm missing something here.


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## Zander (Nov 11, 2013)

Pimmy said:


> Wait wait wait wait a second
> 
> what exactly is "close-minded" about Kap'n saying his daughter, who must be like 4 or 5, is too young to date??? Unless I'm missing something here.



I am kinda lost here as well.


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## Batossi (Nov 11, 2013)

Momiji said:


> I always understood Kapp'n as a very old fashioned man: His manner of speech and topics suggest it.
> 
> At least, Mabel and Labelle stop questioning your way of dressing once they become more comfortable with you, and Harriet is the one to suggest you cut your hair differently.
> 
> Also, at least with my villagers, they usually stick to the pronoun 'they', and make the same comments regardless of gender. c:



In what "old fashioned" credo is infidelity condoned?  lol  Sounds to me like Kapp'n at least believes he has an open marriage, or he simply doesn't subscribe to the standard morays of monogamous society.  Forget his homoerotic word play... =D


Pimmy said:


> Wait wait wait wait a second
> 
> what exactly is "close-minded" about Kap'n saying his daughter, who must be like 4 or 5, is too young to date??? Unless I'm missing something here.



LOL No its the assumption that simply by virtue of being male, you *must* interested at all.  At least I hope that's it... o.0


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## Farobi (Nov 11, 2013)

how did all of this happen...?

I'm not white and i ain't complaining.


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## Hangzhou Hunny (Nov 11, 2013)

puppy said:


> i was one of those people that left my DS open for so many hours a day on the island to get a tan, which is incredibly boring when all you want to do is go mainland and improve your town. this really ruined my experience of the game.



>.> Why was this such a game spoiler for you? You could've just left your game on and read a book for a few hours or something...It's not like you're chained your DS and your fingers have to be on the buttons. 

As for me, I'm a big fan of Kapp'n. He's really cracked and the songs he sings are strangely poignant. For those people who are offended by Kapp'n telling them his daughter is off-limits, what makes you think Kapp'n is serious?


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## Lassy (Nov 11, 2013)

DJStarstryker said:


> Well, technically because it's a Japanese game, everyone's all Japanese. Not white.
> 
> TBH, this happens a LOT in video games though. American developed video games that let you make a custom character *usually* have skin color sliders nowadays. It's much more rare for Japanese developed video games. Why? Because Japan really is 98-99% Japanese only. There isn't really as much racial diversity here, so people forget about it. It's not at all an excuse. That's just how it is. I'm white, but here in Japan, I'm actually an extreme minority. So much so that when I go to concerts, I've had people ask to take pictures of me because they think it's weird that a white gaijin likes *insert celebrity*. It almost makes me a minor celebrity sometimes just due to my race and it's really odd.
> 
> ...



Exactly what I was thinking. Animal Crossing is first made for the Japanese, so perhaps Nintendo didn't really think of the "skin color option" since everybody is Japanese, there isn't a ethnic diversity like in countries such as the USA and UK. It would be nice to have an option, and I think the next game will have it, just like Pokemon X/Y.
But then again, I'm not really bothered now by the fact that there isn't this option, perhaps because I'm half Caucasian half Asian. 
It isn't an issue in Japan, the game was made essentially for the Japanese.

And for Kapp'n, I just skip his songs by clicking A, so I don't really care about his sexual harassment xD


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## puppy (Nov 11, 2013)

aghhhhh you dont understand, i *didnt want to do anything else*, and the standing on the island thing should not have even been a thing i had to do to get my character the way i wanted.
also if you had bothered to read my other post, i said that it wasnt the only thing that ruined the game for me

and why do people keep acting like "omg its not a big deal its just skin color wow much petty"
ok, its not that big a deal to you obviously, but if you could not crap all over what other people feel strongly about that would be great


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## gnoixaim (Nov 11, 2013)

Dang you guys....


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## Amyy (Nov 11, 2013)

gnoixaim said:


> Dang you guys....



this omg

but i understand everyones opinions c:

and even though you arent given a choice at the start of the game, you are given a choice though out the game to get a tan the way you would like it.


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## KarlaKGB (Nov 11, 2013)

Political correctness is cancer.


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## Momi (Nov 11, 2013)

KarlaKGB said:


> Political correctness is cancer.



While I'm not personally offended (simply slightly bummed) by a lack of skin colour choice, I'd be careful with posting blanket statements like this. Political correctness isn't distinctly defined, and at some point considering people of colour as significant to society (and therefore should be given the right to vote) was defined as 'political correctness', rather than common decency.

I'm just trying to say that blanket statements are terribly offensive when walking the fine line between political correctness and human rights.


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## mistakenolive (Nov 11, 2013)

If one thing proves the player character isn't white, it's the fact that 5 hours in tropical sunlight results in brown, and not cherry red. Or purple; I actually have seen a man so burnt he was red-violet. Got that way from gardening he said.

DISCLAIMER: The above comment is intended to be facetious. Except the purple guy part, that totally happened.


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## Hangzhou Hunny (Nov 11, 2013)

puppy said:


> im still very disappointed that something so _incredibly simple_ as skin color choice is not a thing in animal crossing.
> even pokemon has it now /:
> i was one of those people that left my DS open for so many hours a day on the island to get a tan, which is incredibly boring when all you want to do is go mainland and improve your town. *this really ruined my experience of the game.*



No offense, but your initial post made it seem like the lack of skintone/tanning was what made you hate the game since you failed to mention other aspects of the game you found equally unpalatable. 

Okay, I'm done with this thread. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion and I very much respect that. I just wanted to point out that I thought it was a bit silly to hate the game because you didn't want to spend hours tanning. >_>


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## majnin (Nov 11, 2013)

I came up with an idea for the skin colour thing:

At the beginning of the game you come across Blanca. She obviously, has no eyes so is blind, so you have to describe what you look like to her. Then you can pick your skin colour, hair colour, eye shape ect. I just came up with it for some reason haha.


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## Ruesen (Nov 11, 2013)

I never listen to Kapp's songs; I sat through them once until I found out I could skip them and never looked back. As for the whole "narrow-minded" implications, I sadly have gotten used to games auto-assuming what you are interested in. It's not a game-breaker for me, though, as there is plenty of fun to be had elsewhere.

I personally think it's awesome how the neighbors are when they comment on guys wearing "female-only" clothes and say "Only you could pull that off" or "Of course it's okay for guys to wear dresses and make-up!" I haven't tried a female character wearing "male only" clothes yet, but I hope it's just as positive.

Lastly, I agree that there should be a skin tone setting for all games where you customize characters. A bunch of light-skinned player-characters gets boring in my opinion. Even if there was something like as soon as you start tanning, you go to like Harriet and she has something to help you maintain the tan or unlocks a tanning machine would be a step forward (option to choose would be better, but its a step).


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## mistakenolive (Nov 11, 2013)

I like the whole tanning concept in general, but it is a poor way to deal with different skin colors, if that even was Nintendo's intention. I would like it if they kept the tanning feature, and have your base color chosen at character creation (one discussion I saw suggested asking how sunny your home was). 

Although,  I kinda wish we could get non human skintones too, like green or blue. Just stick the character in a dye vat like an easter egg XD


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## Lion-Lhasa (Nov 11, 2013)

Let me start off with pointing out that I am a straight, white, English female - you can't really get more plain than that.

I do agree that there should be a skin colour slider so we could choose our ethnicity, I'd quite like to have another character who is a different colour than me.
In MMOs I sometimes choose to play as a male character and/or a 'character of colour' (not sure how politically correct I have to be on here). I know I'm not the only person like this and I think it would be wonderful to be able to choose our skin colour but the tanning thing needs to be kept in too, just because it adds a little bit of realism.
I know it wouldn't be hard for them to add such a thing to the game and it wouldn't surprise me if it turned up in the next AC. Especially now with Pokemon's example.

On Kapp'n, although in western versions of the game he's referred to as a turtle, in Japan he's a Kappa - a mythical creature that steals children and loves to eat cucumbers - so by definition he would be creepy.

I also think that Gracie should be kept as male but it seems to be a bit like Birdo from the Mario series. I think even in the manual for one of the games it said that he was a gay cross-dresser but for western releases he was changed to a girl.

In ways Japan is more open-minded than the west, but it falls behind on the gender equality issue. Nobody's perfect.


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## Lauren (Nov 11, 2013)

I believe you think far too deep in to the game. It's a game for crying out loud.


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## Zanessa (Nov 11, 2013)

Sena said:


> Clarify, if you would, please, whether you are vehemently against the concept of a skin color choice option being introduced in future games, or if you are simply playing devil's advocate.



It can be an option, but I'd never use it. But I'm arguing on a side where I can care less about skin tone. The only difference is that I'm black and people would probably only think people who aren't light-skinned would want a skin choice option.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Farobi said:


> how did all of this happen...?
> 
> I'm not white and i ain't complaining.



Same here. I got used to never being black in a game, so I'm used to the "white skin color" option.


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## Batossi (Nov 11, 2013)

majnin said:


> I came up with an idea for the skin colour thing:
> 
> At the beginning of the game you come across Blanca. She obviously, has no eyes so is blind, so you have to describe what you look like to her. Then you can pick your skin colour, hair colour, eye shape ect. I just came up with it for some reason haha.


Brilliant!  Problem solved, majnin, you're hired!  Now onto world hunger, you can do it! ^^



ZanessaGaily said:


> It can be an option, but I'd never use it. But I'm arguing on a side where I can care less about skin tone. The only difference is that I'm black and people would probably only think people who aren't light-skinned would want a skin choice option.
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> ...



Then by all means enjoy your invisibility, that is your right too.  I'm just glad our founding civil activists didn't share your same level of comfort in disenfranchised  obscurity.   No worries, there were house slaves who apathetically refused to buck the system too.  Why do you think that is?

Annnd I know this is "only a game", but stop to consider how pivotal gaming is to our culture today?  Video gaming is the storytelling around the communal fire of yesterday; the folk songs sung during migrations; the newspapers of infant urbanization; the radio heralding the birth of technology.  Except that where the others mostly involved the adult strata of their respective societies, gaming transcends all.  It is a major contributor in the shaping of minds, and as such it has a responsibility.  One the press used to embody... 

Oppression is an insidious spider - this isn't about political correctness; to see it so is the epitome of "narrow-mindedness" - its about the inalienable right of *ALL* to equal representation.  To respect *everyone* as equals with the same consideration, influence, voice, validity, and yes, power.  Point blank.  Its a sad commentary on the culture of today when its perceived as insignificant for anyone to be devalued.  Even more tragic when the one being so, is blind to it.  Ah but ignorance is bliss...

As a society, we should stop focusing on the stranger's candy, and acknowledge the boarded up van we're being led too.  "He who has ears, let him hear..." Adieu =}


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## Miss Renee (Nov 11, 2013)

Oh my god. I can't even.


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## majnin (Nov 11, 2013)

Batossi is that sarcasm I detect?


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## Zanessa (Nov 11, 2013)

I'm gonna stop replying because I don't really like to talk to people who don't understand what I'm trying to say.


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## Batossi (Nov 11, 2013)

majnin said:


> Batossi is that sarcasm I detect?



Not at all majnin!  I think your option is indeed brilliant!  Sincerely.  That's why you've been tasked with yet another... ^.^



ZanessaGaily said:


> I'm gonna stop replying because I don't really like to talk to people who don't understand what I'm trying to say.



ZanessaGaily your concept is not so complex as to be deemed incomprehensible.  You are a person of non-white descent, who happens to be "ok" with being represented as a person of white descent - while gaming at least.  You don't see what all the controversy (for lack of a better word) and energy is about.  You've made it abundantly clear that you do NOT want to be grouped with those of us troublemaking persons of perceived color.  Correct?  I get the feeling that you're afraid this is, or has become, just another inflated race issue, along with a lot of the others who minimize the significance of this issue.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  I don't want to misrepresent you, even in my mind. =}


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## puppy (Nov 11, 2013)

batossi you are great


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## Batossi (Nov 11, 2013)

puppy said:


> batossi you are great


*Blushes* As are you puppy.  Thank you. =}


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## Lin (Nov 11, 2013)

Batossi said:


> Not at all majnin!  I think your option is indeed brilliant!  Sincerely.  That's why you've been tasked with yet another... ^.^
> 
> 
> 
> ZanessaGaily your concept is not so complex as to be deemed incomprehensible.  You are a person of non-white descent, who happens to be "ok" with being represented as a person of white descent - while gaming at least.  You don't see what all the controversy (for lack of a better word) and energy is about.  You've made it abundantly clear that you do NOT want to be grouped with those of us troublemaking persons of perceived color.  Correct?  I get the feeling that you're afraid this is, or has become, just another inflated race issue, along with a lot of the others who minimize the significance of this issue.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  I don't want to misrepresent you, even in my mind. =}



Some people just get used to being a certain way in a game. I'll give you an example, I'm female but in Mabinogi if it wasn't for my special Vocaloid Rin hair I'd change into a guy (in this game you can rebirth and change your appearance and gender almost whenever) so fast it's not even funny. I'm tempted in using my extra Vocaloid Rin/Len card to just be a guy with Len hair instead of a girl with Rin hair (it's just... Len's hair is rendered a bit weird to me, would need some getting used to). I have a lot of good memories with being a guy in that game, but in other games like AC I tend to prefer being a girl because my best memories of the game were me as a girl. And even in Mabinogi, although lately I want to go back to being a guy, being a girl is fine and has it's own comforts. Some games I rather be a girl, in others I rather be a guy. In real life I don't care either way. 

Some people would never want to be the other gender because to them gender matters. Mine doesn't. If I was born into this world as a man (I can only imagine) I'd be ok with it, being born as a woman I'm ok with also. Some people just don't care about what their character's race is or race in general just like some don't care about gender. They'll just take whatever is available or whatever they're most used to when given the choice. No point in fighting for something you don't even want, that's the beauty of freedom. It seemed to me like you were trying to make her feel bad about her position: "I'm just glad our founding civil activists didn't share your same level of comfort in disenfranchised obscurity. No worries, there were house slaves who apathetically refused to buck the system too. Why do you think that is?" And that seems uncalled for and a bit mean imo.

To summarize... What I'm trying to say is that maybe she's just used to being a certain way in AC so she sees no reason to fight for being something she wouldn't be used to. It'd be like me trying to fight for a female mage in a game that has a gender lock making you a male mage. It'd be pointless for me to fight for. Just because someone is comfortable in a situation you don't like doesn't mean they're living badly or worse than you.


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## majnin (Nov 11, 2013)

Haha thank you Batossi. Also you like Lionel (it's on your signature) so I have 111000% more respect for you


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## SockHead (Nov 11, 2013)

Hahahaha is this really a thread ahahaaaaaa


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## Zanessa (Nov 11, 2013)

Batossi said:


> ZanessaGaily your concept is not so complex as to be deemed incomprehensible.  You are a person of non-white descent, who happens to be "ok" with being represented as a person of white descent - while gaming at least.  You don't see what all the controversy (for lack of a better word) and energy is about.  You've made it abundantly clear that you do NOT want to be grouped with those of us troublemaking persons of perceived color.  Correct?  I get the feeling that you're afraid this is, or has become, just another inflated race issue, along with a lot of the others who minimize the significance of this issue.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  I don't want to misrepresent you, even in my mind. =}



I can see where you guys are coming from, "we should have it, there's no excuse for it" but I just.. don't care.. I got used to not being black in games. What would I be afraid of, anyways? Getting the option and "finally" being my own color?

- - - Post Merge - - -



Lin said:


> To summarize... What I'm trying to say is that maybe she's just used to being a certain way in AC so she sees no reason to fight for being something she wouldn't be used to. It'd be like me trying to fight for a female mage in a game that has a gender lock making you a male mage. It'd be pointless for me to fight for. Just because someone is comfortable in a situation you don't like doesn't mean they're living badly or worse than you.



Not just in AC, but in every game I've ever played.


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## Batossi (Nov 11, 2013)

Lin said:


> Some people just get used to being a certain way in a game. I'll give you an example, I'm female but in Mabinogi if it wasn't for my special Vocaloid Rin hair I'd change into a guy (in this game you can rebirth and change your appearance and gender almost whenever) so fast it's not even funny. I'm tempted in using my extra Vocaloid Rin/Len card to just be a guy with Len hair instead of a girl with Rin hair (it's just... Len's hair is rendered a bit weird to me, would need some getting used to). I have a lot of good memories with being a guy in that game, but in other games like AC I tend to prefer being a girl because my best memories of the game were me as a girl. And even in Mabinogi, although lately I want to go back to being a guy, being a girl is fine and has it's own comforts. Some games I rather be a girl, in others I rather be a guy. In real life I don't care either way.
> 
> Some people would never want to be the other gender because to them gender matters. Mine doesn't. If I was born into this world as a man (I can only imagine) I'd be ok with it, being born as a woman I'm ok with also. Some people just don't care about what their character's race is or race in general just like some don't care about gender. They'll just take whatever is available or whatever they're most used to when given the choice. No point in fighting for something you don't even want, that's the beauty of freedom. It seemed to me like you were trying to make her feel bad about her position: "I'm just glad our founding civil activists didn't share your same level of comfort in disenfranchised obscurity. No worries, there were house slaves who apathetically refused to buck the system too. Why do you think that is?" And that seems uncalled for and a bit mean imo.
> 
> To summarize... What I'm trying to say is that maybe she's just used to being a certain way in AC so she sees no reason to fight for being something she wouldn't be used to. It'd be like me trying to fight for a female mage in a game that has a gender lock making you a male mage. It'd be pointless for me to fight for. Just because someone is comfortable in a situation you don't like doesn't mean they're living badly or worse than you.



Firstly, well said.  I understand entirely.

Secondly, I wasn't trying to be mean - my apologies if that's how it came off.  I simply wanted to challenge the precepts, just in case it was in fact a comfort issue, and not merely apathy.  Thank you for your input. =}



ZanessaGaily said:


> I can see where you guys are coming from, "we should have it, there's no excuse for it" but I just.. don't care.. I got used to not being black in games. What would I be afraid of, anyways? Getting the option and "finally" being my own color?
> 
> - - - Post Merge - - -
> 
> Not just in AC, but in every game I've ever played.



i understand.  Its not an issue for you.  I'm sorry if you felt besieged, that wasn't my intention in the least.


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## Imonly21 (Nov 11, 2013)

Ugh Animal Crossing is a children's game. It's an innocent children's game. Bringing sexuality into makes it so much more complicated than it needs to be and takes the innocence away (which is one of the main reasons why I like it so much). Seriously, this game allows you to wear whatever you want, change your hair to whatever you want, and you're complaining that the villagers can't be lesbian/gay? Really? It's not like they even have romantic relationships in the first place... This thread is so ridiculous.


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## Bea (Nov 11, 2013)

Imonly21 said:


> Ugh Animal Crossing is a children's game. It's an innocent children's game. Bringing sexuality into makes it so much more complicated than it needs to be and takes the innocence away (which is one of the main reasons why I like it so much). Seriously, this game allows you to wear whatever you want, change your hair to whatever you want, and you're complaining that the villagers can't be lesbian/gay? Really? It's not like they even have romantic relationships in the first place... This thread is so ridiculous.



I agree on the sexuality bit. Kapp'n is already pushing it with his constant hitting on me. x.x I mean I'm 22 but imagine a 9 yr old playing.... eurgh. I don't think we're ready as a society in general to have themes of sexuality in a game with such a broad spectrum of players. While I don't think two men or women in love is any more explicit or sexual than a man and a woman in love, I'm unfortunately the minority. The world has to change before AC does.

Now. As for the skin tone. Nintendo there is just no excuse in any game anymore. I think they tried to include everyone with the tanning feature but it's such a hassle to maintain.


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## Batossi (Nov 11, 2013)

Bea said:


> I agree on the sexuality bit. Kapp'n is already pushing it with his constant hitting on me. x.x I mean I'm 22 but imagine a 9 yr old playing.... eurgh. I don't think we're ready as a society in general to have themes of sexuality in a game with such a broad spectrum of players. While I don't think two men or women in love is any more explicit or sexual than a man and a woman in love, I'm unfortunately the minority. The world has to change before AC does.
> 
> Now. As for the skin tone. Nintendo there is just no excuse in any game anymore. I think they tried to include everyone with the tanning feature but it's such a hassle to maintain.



Hear, hear on both Bea.  But I'm done beating a dead horse, as it were.

Though I must admit I'm always amused by those who scoff at a thread, yet still feel compelled to post in it.  That just proves the thread's effectiveness.  G'day all. =}


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## Zanessa (Nov 11, 2013)

Bea said:


> I agree on the sexuality bit. Kapp'n is already pushing it with his constant hitting on me. x.x I mean I'm 22 but imagine a 9 yr old playing.... eurgh. The



9 year olds nowadays are taking nude pics and 'woohoo'ing. (Sims thing, you know what it really means..)


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## Ankhes (Nov 11, 2013)

Not necessarily "compelled."  Right now it could be "nothing better to do."  

Broad brush fallacy.  Ad hom.  Straw Man.  The logical fallacies abound.   

Me - I don't care.  I just am bored for a few minutes after cleaning.  Not compelled...just bored and I happen to be here.


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## xTurnip (Nov 11, 2013)

This is the best post. 





gnoixaim said:


> Dang you guys....


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## MDofDarkheart (Nov 11, 2013)

It's just a game!
Personally, I think K'napp is odd but it makes him a funny character to me.

I'm a pale-skinned straight woman who loves AC as it is.
I would welcome any option to have a different skin-tone in future AC games though.

If you want a gay/bi/lesbian character, CROSS DRESS YOUR CHARACTER or SAY THEY ARE!
*I mean technically the character in the game is you.*

I have a gay guy friend who plays Animal Crossing and wears to normal boys clothing but once in awhile he'll wear a dress or skirt that he likes.


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## Prof Gallows (Nov 11, 2013)

Guys, this really isn't an appropriate thing to debate on our site.

If you wanna talk about this stuff, do it in a PM.


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