# Lets see where this goes.



## Furry Sparks (May 14, 2010)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75001512@N00/4550427537/sizes/l/in/photostream/


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## [Nook] (May 14, 2010)

I got depression.


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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

I saw this on Reddit's front page.  It's too true.


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

It's horrible, isn't it? I wish people would just accept us for who we are... ="(


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

I just posted this to Facebook. I encourage all of you to do the same.


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## Jake (May 15, 2010)

That's why i'm Bi-Sexual.
But it really is horrible. wanna punch 'em in the face.


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Jake. said:
			
		

> That's why i'm Bi-Sexual.
> But it really is horrible. wanna punch 'em in the face.


wat

What is why you're bisexual? There's no reason for it (well, aside from a scientific reason involving genes and whatnot when you're born), you're just born that way.


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## Sporge27 (May 15, 2010)

Well he could mean it is why he says bisexual, but really if he is bi, aka has been atracted to guys and girls at different times, it is really just as possible.  Somehow we got to a point where you are either all one or the other and that just isn't how it is.

You know I am still afraid to be out to some people, I've been trying to keep my boyfriend away a little while my grandparents are in town because I am afraid they will be suspicious....  I feel awful about it but I don't want to get disowned.  They almost disowned my cousin over getting a tattoo....


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## Miranda (May 15, 2010)

I find it really sad people can't just accept people for who they are. People don't have to like it, but they should respect it, that's all anyone asks for is respect.


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## //RUN.exe (May 15, 2010)

yeah kinda sad whate-

"i am not here anymore"

;-;


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## pielover6 (May 15, 2010)

I don't even know what to say.  I except everyone for who they are no matter what.


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

> I just posted this to Facebook. I encourage all of you to do the same.


Really, I think that if everyone here posted this picture to Facebook, it could reach out to a lot of people. That single image speaks a lot of words, and is very powerful. It might just change the way some people view homosexuality. (And by post it to Facebook, I mean posting the ] in the "What's on your mind?" field, not uploading it to your photo albums, in case that's what you thought.)


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## [Nook] (May 15, 2010)

People these days. Hating for no good reason at all.


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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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I'm not the type to invite annoying discussions with the type of people that populate my Facebook friends list....


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## Fillfall (May 15, 2010)

Can't people just stop being *****es? Think if that was you. And don't make people feel bad because they are gay.


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## Elliot (May 15, 2010)

Thats depressing, I just hope in the future everyone can accept who we are.


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## Trundle (May 15, 2010)

;-;
I get death threats too, but none of the others. D:


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## Jake (May 15, 2010)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

> Well he could mean it is why he says bisexual, but really if he is bi, aka has been atracted to guys and girls at different times, it is really just as possible.  Somehow we got to a point where you are either all one or the other and that just isn't how it is.
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> You know I am still afraid to be out to some people, I've been trying to keep my boyfriend away a little while my grandparents are in town because I am afraid they will be suspicious....  I feel awful about it but I don't want to get disowned.  They almost disowned my cousin over getting a tattoo....


I mean, everyone in my family (excluding my mummy 'cause she is cool like that, but is in Melbourne) resent gays. Whenever the Mardi-Grah is on TV My dad is like eww. And he jsut hates gays. So being the *censored.4.0* that I am to my dad, I was just like "I'm gonna be gay just to piss you off" And I jokingly did it, then I became gay, but then I was like "wait, I'm bisexual" So that is my lfie story


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## Trundle (May 15, 2010)

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Cool story, bro.


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## Rockman! (May 15, 2010)

Wow, really ... the world is so *censored.3.0*ed up right now we can't even accept people for who they really are?


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## Gethsamane (May 15, 2010)

*censored.3.0*ers. I go to a very racist, discriminating, homophobic, etc. school.

Just because of how I am (never serious, joke around a lot), and based on some things I say, I've been asked by some of my friends if I really was gay. I always respond "What if I am?". My *closest friends* say they would kill me if they found out I was gay. Am I gay? No. Would they kill me? Probably not. But you get the idea. Your closest friends wanting to kill you because of something you're attracted to, that you may or may not have any control over.


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## Wish (May 15, 2010)

The only one I get is the hitting :C But I feel bad for these kids.


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## [Nook] (May 15, 2010)

Besides, the only reason some people hate gays just because their religion says that gays are bad or something. WHO THE HELL WOULD BRING RELIGION INTO SEXUALITY? Personally, I think religion has NOTHING to do with sexuality, even if the religion's creator says so. Remember, every group of people has its own share of bad people and good people. Every time I would ask someone in school why gays are bad, they say something like "Because [insert a certain religion here] says that gays are bad and you should die for not hating gays" or something like that. I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT WHAT THEIR RELIGION SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY. We should learn to respect people whatever sexuality or color or religion they are, unless they're something like a rapist or something like that.


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## Garrett x50 cal (May 15, 2010)

I  laughed a little. "My Grandma sends me hate mail," "I'm not here anymore."

It does suck, a lot though. 
@nook u mad?


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## [Nook] (May 15, 2010)

SSgt. Garrett said:
			
		

> I  laughed a little. "My Grandma sends me hate mail," "I'm not here anymore."
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> It does suck, a lot though.
> @nook u mad?


I finally rage about something worth raging over.


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## Jrrj15 (May 15, 2010)

Lol the one that says im not here anymore lol


Anyways thats awful


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## Megamannt125 (May 15, 2010)

Goddammit
Society strikes again


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## David (May 15, 2010)

//RUN.exe said:
			
		

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^^

failed attempt at trying to be funny.


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## Numner (May 15, 2010)

If I posted that at Facebook one of those things would happen to me.

Homophobes hate anything related to gay.


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## Megamannt125 (May 15, 2010)

David said:
			
		

> [im]htp/pctures.tospeed.com/IMG/crop/200910/megan-fox-is-man-s-f-1_460x0w.jpg[/mg]
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> Megan Fox, turns gays straight.


Just shut up.


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## [Nook] (May 15, 2010)

Megamannt125 said:
			
		

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Exactly. If you're not going to take this seriously, then GTFO. Topics such as this are meant to be taken seriously.


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## Garrett x50 cal (May 15, 2010)

[Nook said:
			
		

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The internet _is_ srs business after all.


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## Numner (May 15, 2010)

But really this is nothing new, it happened when blacks came out of slavery or started to have black and white schools.

It took women forever to get any good rights.

There use to be strict social classes.

Even though I'm from the south I'll bet we will be the last one to accept them.

There seems to have been discrimination for everything, nothing new.


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## //RUN.exe (May 15, 2010)

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"help i cannot accept the fact that i jerked it to a dude"


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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

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Hey, guess what?

There is no God, your parents have lied to you your entire life.  You've spent your life eating up everything you were spoon fed by those older than you.  You've entered a perpetuating cycle of ignorance, hate, and smug superiority that will preclude your attempts at finding friends or women of any worthwhile caliber.  I can only hope that someday you'll experience the soul-crushing realization that you've spent your hypocritical life with some particularly ugly delusions.  Perhaps such an event will have to wait until your inevitable death, when the bleak, yawning infinity will swallow you and your mind, and the sudden, unexpected loneliness will be the last thing you experience before oblivion.


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## Princess (May 15, 2010)

That's so sad. ):

Everyone should be accepted for who they are.


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## [Nook] (May 15, 2010)

Pally said:
			
		

> That's so sad. ):
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> Everyone should be accepted for who they are.


My thoughts exactly. Religion cannot and will not undo that fact. In fact, I don't think religion has ANYTHING to do with that. How is it "sinning" if you're not doing anything bad?


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Mino said:
			
		

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Hey, don't just flat out say that there's no God like that. Pointing out the flaws of Christianity and the Bible is one thing, but saying that there is no God like you know it for a fact is a bit too far. I'm not really a Christian, as I disagree with all of the nonsense, but I do believe that there is a God and there is an afterlife. I may not have hard proof that either exist, but you don't have hard proof that either _don't_ exist, so don't claim it as a fact.


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## Princess (May 15, 2010)

[Nook said:
			
		

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People who use religion as an excuse for their actions are just silly.

No one deserves to be treated wrongly.


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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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I didn't really intend to say I was saying it was a fact, but I do certainly believe everything I claimed there.  However, I was actually mirroring his insane decision to post that picture in here with a diatribe against theistic religion.

The fact is, I find it hilarious that he parades around his heterosexuality like he did something to earn it.

And Megan Fox is a woman for the tasteless.


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## Princess (May 15, 2010)

Mino said:
			
		

> And Megan Fox is a woman for the tasteless.


^^^^


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## Conor (May 15, 2010)

# Prohibited Topics/Posts
Some topics are not permitted for discussion on the forums because they may lead to flaming or insulting other members. Discussions about religion and other controversial topics should be done in personal messages or outside of The Bell Tree.

The rule is there for a reason, cut it out.


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## Fabioisonfire (May 15, 2010)

GAY PEOPLE!?


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Mino said:
			
		

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Okay, then. I have no problem with other people's religious beliefs, but when people claim that their religion (or lack thereof) is fact, end of discussion, then that's when things have gone too far. I don't care if you're atheist or theist, it doesn't matter. Nobody knows for certain what the true religion is, we only _believe_. And that belief is _your_ belief, not others'.

But, yeah, I agree with you on the David thing. It's funny, really. He must me very insecure of his sexuality if he seriously thinks he has to let everyone know just how much he likes girls (and apparently especially Megan Fox).


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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

Conor said:
			
		

> # Prohibited Topics/Posts
> Some topics are not permitted for discussion on the forums because they may lead to flaming or insulting other members. Discussions about religion and other controversial topics should be done in personal messages or outside of The Bell Tree.
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> The rule is there for a reason, cut it out.


What reason?  To prevent TBT members from having engaging conversation once in a while?  To prevent people from having their fragile sensibilities threatened?

Sorry, but when I see people who aren't children being coddled, I get very angry.


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Fabioisonfire said:
			
		

> GAY PEOPLE!?


I'm still trying to figure out why you have a suggestive picture of Michael Jackson in your signature.


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## Fabioisonfire (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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I'm still trying to figure out where you get your misplaced sense of self-righteousness.


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Fabioisonfire said:
			
		

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I don't think I'm better than everyone, nor that I'm always right, so shut the hell up. >_>


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## Fabioisonfire (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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That statement alone was hypocritical in itself.

I think many people here would argue the opposite.


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## muffun (May 15, 2010)

That's really upsetting. I can't believe people make such a big deal about things like sexuality. Luckily, I wouldn't judge people or discriminate people based upon that. If it's not really affecting your life then why the *censored.3.0* should you care?


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

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If anything, that describes _you_, not me. I'm not self-righteous. I don't think that I'm superior to other people, and I openly admit that I'm not always right. I don't know why you and people like you think things like that, because I make it clear in my posts that I'm not like that. Unless you're taking my posts out of context, or just like to make up things that you believe I said, which people seemingly love to do around here. >_>


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## Fabioisonfire (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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YOU HATE GAY PEOPLE DON'T YOU?!


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Fabioisonfire said:
			
		

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So you resort to trolling, now? lol


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## Fabioisonfire (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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I just like *censored.3.0*ing with you because you remind me of unstable kids at school that I can make fun of. That's essentially what you are.


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Fabioisonfire said:
			
		

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I'm aware that I'm very easy to make fun of. And guess what? I don't care. I've dealt with it my whole life, and nothing will change who I am. Besides, making fun of me isn't going to make you look any better yourself or anything.


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## Fabioisonfire (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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Not like I can get much better, anyway. Good looking, active in the community, charming, athletic, talented, Italian; what's not to love?! I'm awesome.


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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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I think you should re-examine the nature of belief.  Belief is based on reason and evidence.  The end of the discussion does not come when someone states what they believe is true (in their minds, "a fact"), but when mutual understanding is achieved, whether it be a like-minded consensus or a new insight into the nature of the opposing side.  I reject the idea that all beliefs are equal, for surely you do not believes in a flat-earth or other unsupported claims?  Religions is not immune to criticism and rational critique, nor should it be.  Unfortunately some people feel that it's not acceptable to assess the quality of others' beliefs, but a belief without evidence is one not worth holding.

On the question of atheism vs. theism, that is not the actual dichotomy you were discussing.  Whether or not God exists is a question I don't think can be answered, for by definition he is outside the natural world, the cosmos as we experience them.  The belief in a non-intervening, impersonal God is called deism, a belief you'll find frequently among many Enlightenment thinkers, such as America's "Founding Fathers" (a clich


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## Fabioisonfire (May 15, 2010)

Mino said:
			
		

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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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## David (May 15, 2010)

Mino said:
			
		

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if you are right and i am wrong, then i lose nothing. if i am right and you are wrong, you lose everything.


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Mino said:
			
		

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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

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What you just paraphrased, probably without knowing it, was something called Pascal's Wager, named after the brilliant mathematician (but C-rate philosopher) Blaise Pascal.

You are assuming that Christianity, rather than Islam, or any other religion that says that your religion is wrong, is the "correct" religion.  Suppose the true religion is Islam, and I choose between Atheism and Christianity.  I can't win then, can I?

A second problem with that pathetic reasoning is that it is, as Christopher Hitchens put it, "religious hucksterism of the cheapest kind".  You assume that a selfish belief based on the desire to avoid Hell is worth more than the non-belief of someone who just could not bring his or herself to believe.  I ask you this, which would be worth more in God's eyes?  If this is the true nature of piety, then I will have nothing to do with it.

I also take issue with your assumption that you will lose nothing if it turns out I am right.  What you will have lost is your entire life to ugly, self-interested delusions.


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## Bacon Boy (May 15, 2010)

Mino said:
			
		

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Not necessarily, and I hate it when people generalize for Christina,s and Muslims too, now! I've done that in the past, but I've met some Muslims that are really good, non-extremist, people. Not all Christians act the same way. That's why there are denominations. I, myself, am nondenominational. And another thing, I know for a fact that half of the Christians aren't out there just to save their asses from hell. Take it this way, I work at a summer camp, a Christian one, mind you, where we're not allowed to mention Hell and the like to the younger campers because 1) it might scare them, and 2) (my reasoning) is it will deter them from the actual meaning of Christianity. If they think "oh, if I become a Christian, I have a one way ticket away from hell!" Which is actually, false thinking, but aside from that. I do agree with you on one thing, David is a terrible arguer (if that is what you are implying in your rebuttals) in the sense that he acts like his opinions (of not just religion) are cold hard facts and he has rarely provides any proof to back them up. 

On the matter of the thread: I hate how people treat other people, not just homosexuals. It's wrong to treat anyone in a hateful way for the sole-fact that it hurts them. I think it's some sick twisted way for an idiot to bump up his self-esteem because he feels like he's accomplished something. To the matter at hand, I really don't agree with homosexuality, but I'm not going to go out there and brutally murder or beat up the homosexuals out there. And since I know you'll contradict me if I say it's because of my faith, I'll also say because I just can't feel or see the attraction. It makes no sense to me. But I will however, tolerate it. Again, I won't brutally murder or wound someone because of their sexual preference. Like Collin said, the same thing happened to black people and women, granted not as severe as women, regardless, this has been going on for ages. Some people will agree with it, while others won't. I feel like I'm straying...


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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

Bacon Boy said:
			
		

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I'm sorry, but based on the content your reply I think the meaning of what I said went over  your head.

I also never implied that David was a terrible arguer, but it's certainly true and I see how you could infer that from his comments versus mine.


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## Bacon Boy (May 15, 2010)

Mino said:
			
		

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You are a good arguer, and I give you that. And yes, he is a terrible arguer. Expecially when it comes to this and video games.


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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

Bacon Boy said:
			
		

> To the matter at hand, I really don't agree with homosexuality, but I'm not going to go out there and brutally murder or beat up the homosexuals out there. And since I know you'll contradict me if I say it's because of my faith, I'll also say because I just can't feel or see the attraction. It makes no sense to me. But I will however, tolerate it.


I fail to see how this constitutes "not agreeing" with homosexuality.  As a straight person, I am not sexually attracted to other men, even though I often joke about wanting to get it on with Andy.  I wouldn't expect a heterosexual to understand the attraction homosexuals have to people of the same gender or vice versa.  Faith is not relevant to this.  To me it seems that you either don't understand same-sex attraction, and therefore do not believe it exists, or you "disagree" with it out of some ancient religious edict that has survived to this day.  Which is it, or is it really worth saying that you don't "agree" with homosexuality?


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## Trundle (May 15, 2010)

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How'd we combine religion with sexuality discussions?


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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

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Uhh, they've been entangled pretty much since the beginning of this argument, so I don't understand why you asked me this question.


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## Trundle (May 15, 2010)

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I didn't notice. All I saw was "This is so sad." and then skipped the 7 pages. I'm not gonna read all of this.


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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

MrMr said:
			
		

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Well, thank you for your pointless input, then.


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## Trundle (May 15, 2010)

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No problem.


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## Bacon Boy (May 15, 2010)

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I was trying to make sense, but I guess I didn't come across right. It's not that I don't believe it exists, I just don't believe in its basic principle - same-sex relations. So no, I don't agree with it.


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## Numner (May 15, 2010)

Sexualality isn't just strict to religion.

In all honesty, I don't not like it, I mean just public displays of affection isn't bad; but I'm alittle annoyed by really gay people.

Like that gay that isn't gay, but just overly gay.

I can't explain it.


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## SamXX (May 15, 2010)

I hate society. People being put down because of the people they love? It's sad to see pictures like this because it just shows how our world is so unwilling to accept people for who they are.


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## The Sign Painter (May 15, 2010)

Holy crap, FS is back! (Maybe)

And that is horrible, but a good way to get your message out.

I was sad at the "I am no longer here."


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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

Bacon Boy said:
			
		

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You'll have to explain yourself better.  What do you mean you don't "believe" in that principle.  And I'm sure you don't mean you don't believe in same-sex relations, you have relationships with plenty of males, I'm sure.


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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

iFly said:
			
		

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The "overly gay" people, as you put it, to me seem like a reaction to the ignorant homophobia that prevails in societies around the world.  You don't like gay people?  Well, let's see you deal with THIS.  Shock therapy for those stuck in a long-gone age.


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## Numner (May 15, 2010)

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I don't think I'll ever like Perez Hilton.

But seeing as he's the only one who I can think of, maybe I just don't like him.


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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

iFly said:
			
		

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Perez HIlton is just plain annoying, partly because he deals with the bull*censored.2.0* world of celebrity gossip.


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## Bacon Boy (May 15, 2010)

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I mean in a romantic way. What I mean that I don't believe it is that I don't understand how it works or how someone can have that kind of relationship. I guess I couldn't put it the right way... It just doesn't seem logical in my mind.


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Bacon Boy said:
			
		

> And since I know you'll contradict me if I say it's because of my faith, I'll also say because I just can't feel or see the attraction. It makes no sense to me.


I feel the same about heterosexuality, yet no one has any problems with that, do they? Being gay, I don't have any attraction to girls whatsoever, obviously. Sometimes I wonder, if being gay was a choice (which it's not), why any guy would choose to like girls over guys, because I just don't see the attraction myself. But I know better than that, because I know that it's _not_ a choice, and that people are just attracted to whatever gender they're attracted to, and nothing can change that. So even though I don't have any attraction towards girls, I don't question how people can be straight, because it's not a decision, it's just how you're born, and straight people should feel the same about gay people.


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## The Sign Painter (May 15, 2010)

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You gimme any gay or straight person and 20 minutes in a room with a hammer and I bet I could.


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## Goaliegal49 (May 15, 2010)

That's deprssing as hell...I almost feel like crying...


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## brotatochip (May 15, 2010)

Goaliegal49 said:
			
		

> That's deprssing as hell...I almost feel like crying...


^ That.
:/


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

iFly said:
			
		

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I feel the same way about straight people sometimes. Things aren't just straight, they're _overly_ straight. Straight couples always kissing in public, flaunting their straightness... Gay couples can't even get away with holding hands in many places.


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## The Sign Painter (May 15, 2010)

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How the heck are straight couples "flaunting their straightness"?

I see where you are going with the gays can't hold hands, but I don't see it in any way as flaunting.


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## Rawburt (May 15, 2010)

Nevermore said:
			
		

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It's just a perception he has, he just wishes he could do the same thing with his loved one, which he should be able to and not have to hide it.


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Nevermore said:
			
		

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What I'm saying is that you see gay couples how I see straight couples, except far less. You don't like it when you see gay couples displaying affection in public, right? Well, that happens a whole lot less than it does with straight couples. And it happens so much that I just get sick of it. But my reasons are different than yours. I don't dislike straight couples, nor do I think that they shouldn't be able to show affection, but whenever I see a straight couple holding hands or kissing, it makes me so miserable knowing that I can't do the same with my boyfriend.


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## The Sign Painter (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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I don't like either doing anything in public.

Seriously, get a room. xD

But I mean for kissing, I mean, if it is a small kiss, and not them licking each other's face, I am fine, gay or straight.


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Nevermore said:
			
		

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I'm not talking about making out in the middle of a public place or anything. I'm talking about little things, like holding hands, or giving a quick hug or kiss. Straight couples do things like that in public all the time and take it for granted, not realizing that gay couples who want to do the very same can't, or they could be putting their lives at risk. Society sucks.


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## The Sign Painter (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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Wow, I edited my post and not knowingly completely agreed with you.


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Bacon Boy said:
			
		

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If you know how it works, then why isn't it logical to you? I love my boyfriend. I'm attracted to him, and I truly love him, just as you would love a girl. It's the exact same love, except different genders.


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## Mino (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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I've never thought about that.  I'm pretty sure overly straight people piss me off, too.


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## Bacon Boy (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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I just don't understand how you feel that kind of an attraction for a man as I do for a woman. You said you don't see how you can be attracted to girls, so we're kind of in the same spot here.


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## Niya (May 15, 2010)

Whoa. This really DID go somewhere.


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## Bacon Boy (May 15, 2010)

animalcrossingexpert said:
			
		

> Whoa. This really DID go somewhere.


Use spoilers in your signature, son. It's too big!


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Bacon Boy said:
			
		

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I said that I could never see _myself_ being attracted to a girl, but I didn't say that I couldn't understand how _other guys_ can be attracted to girls. I understand it very well; some people are born liking girls, while other guys are born liking other guys. I don't have to feel the same attraction to understand why people have that attraction.


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## Bacon Boy (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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Well still, for me, I don't understand (I understand that one can feel that way about a man) that kind of mindset. I don't know. It's hard to explain.


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Bacon Boy said:
			
		

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What is there to not understand, though? You like girls, I like guys. It's the same feeling, just directed towards different genders.


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## The Sign Painter (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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But yet completely different.


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Nevermore said:
			
		

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No, not at all. Love is love, no matter what gender.


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## Megamannt125 (May 15, 2010)

Bacon Boy said:
			
		

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I had that mindset once as well Al, now look at me.


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

Megamannt125 said:
			
		

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As did I, before I came out.


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## coffeebean! (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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Same here

It really depends on how you look at it.


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## AnimalCrossingcool (May 15, 2010)

Gave me minor depression.


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## Numner (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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That's not what I meant. 

I just mean people are overly something. 

Like Jersey Shore people are too straight and Perez is too gay. 

Or Paris Hilton is too girly or a jock is too manly. 

I've always liked neutral stuff though.


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

iFly said:
			
		

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Now you're talking about celebrities, though. Celebrities are overly _everything_. =P


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## Numner (May 15, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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Well I don't like them xD


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## Tyeforce (May 15, 2010)

iFly said:
			
		

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Neither do I. Celebrities piss me off, lol.


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## //RUN.exe (May 15, 2010)

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i see your pascal and raise you an epicurus.


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## Sporge27 (May 15, 2010)

Bacon Boy, think of it this way, girls like guys the way you like girls, yes?  If you can be fine with that concept is it so hard to think that sometimes other people like guys not just women? Cause otherwise how could you ever imagine any girl ever wanting to date a guy... and that does definitely happen unless  women are all true deceivers and make you just think they like you to gain ...something.... but that view is kinda overly paranoid .....

Also stop the talk on omnipotent beings, they cannot be proven nor disproven by any means we currently have.  Therefore, all arguments on the subject are pointless.  Seriously why do we need that here?


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## Mino (May 16, 2010)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

> Also stop the talk on omnipotent beings, they cannot be proven nor disproven by any means we currently have.  Therefore, all arguments on the subject are pointless.


Do you know what "non sequitur" means?  Your syllogism is wrong, your conclusion does not follow from those premises.  It's true that we would we have no way of ascertaining the reality of a God that does not actively participate in this world, but even then that doesn't mean we can't discuss it.  Such beliefs may not be grounded in empirical evidence, but logic has its place in belief, does it not?


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## Sporge27 (May 16, 2010)

Mino said:
			
		

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Let me put it another way.  Neither of you will change your view, as both are extremely stubborn and rooted in what you believe, and nothing is gained from arguing it.  All it does is cause frustration and possibly torment for at least one side and that is just stupid.  

It is a personal belief, no matter what you believe and can we please just respect beliefs.  Not respecting beliefs causes wars, both actual and just stupid flame wars, and I just don't want to hear it.

And really we have no way of telling whether there is an all powerful being or not, for if there was such a being who did not want to be seen or known to be pulling the strings of the world and expects people to take a leap of faith, then there is no way to show he exists because he is all powerful and can use his limitless power to shroud his actions making it appear that he isn't even there.  In this scenario we really can't tell one way or another.  

To quote God from Futurama "When you  do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."  Following this philosophy of a God is what brings about a conundrum that I really don't think can be proved.  Logic has a place for certain things, but my own personal philosophy is that we live in a limitless world and honestly think that given the right location, size, time, and dimension anything could happen or be possible.  It is just as likely something doesn't happen though, but really I've reached a point in my philosophy that I can't find a way past as far as trying to figure this part out.


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## Mino (May 16, 2010)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

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I'm not sure if you realize this, but as you're telling other people not to discuss their beliefs, you keep on stating your own beliefs.  The belief that the existence of God is outside the realm of proof is called agnosticism.  Please don't try and use your authority to end argument even as you take part in it.

The idea that no one will change their view about these sorts of things is demonstrably false.  I'm an example of someone who has changed his views on this question.  As for the alleged stubbornness, that's your opinion.  You can't actually say for certain that no one's beliefs will be swayed.  And again, you are entirely wrong by saying that nothing can be gained from arguing.  Do yourself a favor and throw away the negative connotation that word has, you don't need it.  A belief that you can't defend is not one worth holding, and arguing it can either strengthen your conviction or afford a new, enlightened belief.

I also object to your conflation of "flame wars" and actual religious wars.  Religious wars are not started over not respecting beliefs, but by the beliefs in the religions themselves.  And not all internet arguments are "flame wars", which is a fact that the administration of this board has conveniently never bothered to understand.  This argument originally started when a certain member posted a picture of that pathetic husk of a woman Megan Fox, claiming she "turns gays straight", implying in that comment that gays needed to be turned straight, and that they can be.  That is a belief, and I freely admit I do not respect it.


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## Bacon Boy (May 16, 2010)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

> Bacon Boy, think of it this way, girls like guys the way you like girls, yes?  If you can be fine with that concept is it so hard to think that sometimes other people like guys not just women? Cause otherwise how could you ever imagine any girl ever wanting to date a guy... and that does definitely happen unless  women are all true deceivers and make you just think they like you to gain ...something.... but that view is kinda overly paranoid .....
> 
> Also stop the talk on omnipotent beings, they cannot be proven nor disproven by any means we currently have.  Therefore, all arguments on the subject are pointless.  Seriously why do we need that here?


I mean I understand how you would feel that way. I guess it's more of a "I can't see myself feeling the way about a guy the way I do for _______".


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## Sporge27 (May 16, 2010)

Mino said:
			
		

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You have a point that some beliefs aren't right and just wrong, but those times there is plenty off proof to the contrary , but a belief in God should not be something to be looked down on as there is no such proof.

I also never said religious wars, look at just about every war in history, they are eventually able to be started by demonizing the viewpoints of another side pointing out the differences rather than similarities.  

Really what I want you to do is stop being an a-hole to some members, and I would hope they would do the same for you.  Stating your belief as a fact when you cannot prove it is fairly pompous, and no it is not just you.  In fact it is probably hardly you doing this in the grand scheme of things but I have seen you post like this in the last day and it not only bugs me, but is against the rules set up here.  Why do we have this rule?  Because these discussion so often lead only to animosity towards each other and we don't want that to happen.  I honestly don't care if you can have a  discussion of it with out ticking people off, but right now it is not occurring so I will ask again to please stop this line of discussion.


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## Numner (May 16, 2010)

I think the discussion on why we should discuss religion is a religious discussion.

Sporge how could you :c


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## Mino (May 16, 2010)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

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Where have I been an "a-hole" to members?  Honestly, I think you're making this up.  Giving people a reasoned argument against what they've said against me is not being an "a-hole".  Unless you're talking about my comment to David, but that was me mirroring his being an *censored.1.3* by posting that picture and trying to be funny.

Sporge, you're not making any sense.


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## Sporge27 (May 16, 2010)

Mino said:
			
		

> Hey, guess what?
> 
> There is no God, your parents have lied to you your entire life.  You've spent your life eating up everything you were spoon fed by those older than you.  You've entered a perpetuating cycle of ignorance, hate, and smug superiority that will preclude your attempts at finding friends or women of any worthwhile caliber.  I can only hope that someday you'll experience the soul-crushing realization that you've spent your hypocritical life with some particularly ugly delusions.  Perhaps such an event will have to wait until your inevitable death, when the bleak, yawning infinity will swallow you and your mind, and the sudden, unexpected loneliness will be the last thing you experience before oblivion.


Was David being ignorant?  Yes he was.  But replying with this?  This is really wherre I thought you crossed the line.  You then went on to say you weren't stating it as a fact even, despite that the second sentence was exactly that.   I'm just saying just cause you think one way does not give you the right to look down on those with other views.  That is being an a-hole in my book, if anything because you have no idea what they have experienced.


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## Mino (May 16, 2010)

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And, as I just said, I only did that to give him a taste of his own medicine.  It's not like he's actually interested in any sort of rational discussion.

You're using this as a reason to proscribe everything that followed, despite the fact that my original post was completely isolated and unrelated to the rest of the comments I made in the rest of the thread.  Have you actually read the entire thread?


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## Sporge27 (May 16, 2010)

Took a while, but I did read it all before.  Point is you directed it at one person you thought deserved it which only polarizes things for him more.  Not only that but it probably offended many you didn't intend to offend.  

I've admitted being wrong at places, but I am not wrong that religious discussion should be held with respect and not used to insult others or hurt others.  Whether or not one person deserved it or not you fail to see that it affects an entire group of people not just him.


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## Mino (May 17, 2010)

Sporge27 said:
			
		

> Took a while, but I did read it all before.  Point is you directed it at one person you thought deserved it which only polarizes things for him more.  Not only that but it probably offended many you didn't intend to offend.
> 
> I've admitted being wrong at places, but I am not wrong that religious discussion should be held with respect and not used to insult others or hurt others.  Whether or not one person deserved it or not you fail to see that it affects an entire group of people not just him.


I'm sure his post offended far more than mine did, and mine was targeted at him, not the relatively large LGBT population on TBT.  Don't pretend like I didn't know other people would read it.

And that's all well and good, but earlier you were saying that the argument is not one that can even be made, not that it hurts others and therefore can't be discussed.  Excepting the first posting, which was, again,  entirely unrelated to my following comments, they were all made with respect and were well-reasoned.  There's a profound disconnect between what you're saying has happened and what actually did.


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## Yokie (May 17, 2010)

It was pretty depressing until I saw "I am not here anymore".


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## Tyeforce (May 17, 2010)

Yeohkei said:
			
		

> It was pretty depressing until I saw "I am not here anymore".


Why _until_ then? If anything, that would be even more depressing...


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## Yokie (May 17, 2010)

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I didn't see it as someone has died...


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## Trundle (May 17, 2010)

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You really get me angry. You really shouldn't go right out and say it like that. You could've left that to a PM, where you wouldn't be offending anyone.


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## Tyeforce (May 17, 2010)

Yeohkei said:
			
		

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Then what did you see it as?


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## Yokie (May 17, 2010)

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Someone who left because he/she needed to go to the bathroom or something.


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## Tyeforce (May 17, 2010)

Yeohkei said:
			
		

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>___>


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## Yokie (May 17, 2010)

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<___<


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## Mino (May 17, 2010)

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So you're offended by me telling someone what I believe?  Did it occur to you that I may be offended every time a Christian professes belief in God?  No, it didn't, in fact you didn't even take it into consideration.  Is that the only criteria for whether or not something can be said?  It might make someone angry or offended?  And why is it that only the religious have the right to be offended by the expression of belief or non-belief?

Luckily for you, apparently, I'm not the type to be offended by simply things like that.


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## Tyeforce (May 17, 2010)

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Not trying to start an argument with you, but there is a difference between saying "I believe/don't believe in God" and "There is/is no God". I don't believe MrMr ever claimed that there is a God as a fact, unlike you, who flat out said "There is no God" without question of a doubt in one of your posts. So don't call someone a hypocrite when you've been one yourself.


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## Rawburt (May 17, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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No, there is no difference in those two statements at all, they're both opinions.

It can't be proven either way, so they're the same. He's just expressing his beliefs.


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## Tyeforce (May 17, 2010)

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No, there is a difference. One is expressing an opinion, while the other is claiming a fact.


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## Rawburt (May 17, 2010)

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Which both are opinions, opinions are one's perception of fact, and since religion can't be proven, both statements mean the same.


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## Tyeforce (May 17, 2010)

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No...no. Saying "There is/isn't a God" isn't expressing an opinion, it's claiming something that can't be proven as a fact. You're not saying "I _think_ there is/isn't a God" or "I _believe_ there is/isn't a God", you're flat out saying that a God does or doesn't exist, claiming it as a fact.


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## Trundle (May 17, 2010)

Anyway, Conor is here, and will probably lock it.


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## Rawburt (May 17, 2010)

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Still the same thing.

And what does it matter for? Someone expressing beliefs isn't something to cause anger.


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## Tyeforce (May 17, 2010)

Rawburt said:
			
		

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It's not the same... >_> No, expressing beliefs isn't something that should anger or offend you. But claiming those beliefs as fact is different.


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## Mino (May 17, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

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There really isn't, if it is followed by reasoning.


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## Mino (May 17, 2010)

MrMr said:
			
		

> Anyway, Conor is here, and will probably lock it.


He's too cool for that.


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## Marcus (May 17, 2010)

Let's face it, nobody knows if there is a God or not; we all just have opinions, some stronger than others.


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## SilentHopes (May 17, 2010)

Really people, can there be any topics where there isn't an argument over where there is a god?
Who cares, if there is, woohoo. If not, woohoo.

BIG DEAL.


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## Trundle (May 17, 2010)

Rorato said:
			
		

> Really people, can there be any topics where there isn't an argument over where there is a god?
> Who cares, if there is, woohoo. If not, woohoo.
> 
> BIG DEAL.


This isn't over if there's a God or not. It's about how you're saying it.


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## SilentHopes (May 17, 2010)

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It's still about god. :L

But, whatever. I don't want to get involved.


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## Prof Gallows (May 17, 2010)

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We've got this topic and your topic discussing this right now.
Only one of them needs to be, so how about you keep it in the one you made?


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## David (May 17, 2010)

Megan Fox is hot. just throwing that out there.


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## Tyeforce (May 17, 2010)

David said:
			
		

> Megan Fox is hot. just throwing that out there.


Again, what the *censored.3.0* does Megan Fox have to do with _anything_?!


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## DevilGopher (May 17, 2010)

Oh my god.  That's just terrible.


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## Rawburt (May 17, 2010)

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It doesn't

David just needs to let us know about his bad taste in women.


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## David (May 17, 2010)

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someone said shes ugly or something somewhere in here.


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## AndyB (May 17, 2010)

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Because he doesn't understand what the topic was about and just being a general moron.


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## Tyeforce (May 17, 2010)

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So what? That's their opinion. "Hotness" is a matter of opinion and preference, not a fact. And it has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. >_>


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## David (May 17, 2010)

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youre a funny man.


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## Bacon Boy (May 17, 2010)

screw it http://www.youtube.com/v/WJTBPdVpdMc&autoplay=1&loop=1


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## Trent the Paladin (May 17, 2010)

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And you're a *censored.3.0*ing douche.


And where the is music coming from? >:L


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## AndyB (May 17, 2010)

Tom said:
			
		

> And where the is music coming from? >:L


Al did it.


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## David (May 17, 2010)

and why does it matter? this thread is dead anyway after all the religious arguments.


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## Numner (May 17, 2010)

David said:
			
		

> Megan Fox is hot. just throwing that out there.


I think I just broke my nose.

FML


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## D1llon (May 17, 2010)

that picture has true meaning, everyone lives in an only us, only now world.
(where is this music coming from)


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## So i hurd you like LAZERS (May 17, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

> It's Awesome, isn't is  ? I wish people would just accept us for who we are... =)


I loled at my dad tried too beat it out of me

Son your not gay!!!! B SALPS

Must of been rednecks


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## Tyeforce (May 17, 2010)

So i hurd you like LAZERS said:
			
		

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Don't change my quotes. >_>


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## //RUN.exe (May 17, 2010)

So i hurd you like LAZERS said:
			
		

> I loled at my dad tried too beat it out of me
> 
> Son your not gay!!!! B SALPS
> 
> Must of been rednecks


what the *censored.3.0* could possibly make that seem funny to you?  are you demented?


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## So i hurd you like LAZERS (May 17, 2010)

I have no heart


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## Tyeforce (May 17, 2010)

So i hurd you like LAZERS said:
			
		

> I have no heart


We know.


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## So i hurd you like LAZERS (May 17, 2010)

Tyeforce said:
			
		

> So i hurd you like LAZERS said:
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You should already i have said it 5 times but you guys still ask


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## Mino (May 17, 2010)

So i hurd you like LAZERS said:
			
		

> I have no sense of humor so I resort to childish attempts at shocking people in order to seem edgy and funny.


Fixed that for ya.


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## So i hurd you like LAZERS (May 17, 2010)

Mino said:
			
		

> So i hurd you like LAZERS said:
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Fixed it for ya.


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## Lisathegreat! (May 17, 2010)

Mino said:
			
		

> So i hurd you like LAZERS said:
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I was seriously about to do that. But I was gonna say I'm just an immature *censored.7.6* who's trying to be funny, but I don't notice I'm not funny and I'm just an annoying kid.

@PicOnFirstPage: My friends are against gays and I ask them why.. they have the most unreasonable answers "'Cause it's nasty!"... Seriously? I know it's their opinion but they judge on everything.

Opinions usually lead to bad things, when people think they are facts.


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## So i hurd you like LAZERS (May 18, 2010)

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Im not a inmature kid im a inmature teen


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## Jas0n (May 18, 2010)

Lisamilitz said:
			
		

> Opinions usually lead to bad things, when people think they are facts.


"Americans will respect your beliefs if you just keep them private."


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## Mino (May 18, 2010)

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You know what?  I'm not even going to approach that.


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## Mino (May 18, 2010)

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13-year-olds are kids, sorry champ.


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## Lisathegreat! (May 18, 2010)

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 I'm so telling that to my friends. Thanks for saying that. I couldn't think of anyway to actually respect it, wow I'm stupid.

@Lazerz: Wait... you're a teen? Dang, that's a surprise.


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## Bacon Boy (May 18, 2010)

So i hurd you like LAZERS said:
			
		

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Fixed.


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