# Random thoughts for discussion not argument!



## BiggKitty (Nov 5, 2014)

I am putting a few thoughts down hopefully for discussion and not a shouting match by the most beligerant members on this Forum. They are also not necessarily my beliefs so would appreciate no one hammering me for voicing them!

It has to be noticed a trend towards trading on the Marketplace with real money, for example eshop credits etc. while this is frowned on by the staff if such trades are conducted under cover of pms it will become very hard to now stamp out.

This has probably been caused by the rise in TBT prices of collectibles on the marketplace and the scarcity of getting one's hands on TBT bells in the first place.

I understand the idea of the Forum selling TBT for real money has previously been discounted, but do the admins feel the time is right for a rethink?

To avoid confusion I am adding, I am not talking about individuals selling TBT for real money, I am talking about the Bell Tree Forum selling in the shop let's say 100 TBT for x amount of money.

Money made from this venture could all be put towards improving and extending the website to benefit all.

I put forward this suggestion because it would be no worse than the people that play Facebook games where they use real money to buy credits to advance their game. It is all just pixels but people do pay a lot of money for such.

The downside of this proposal is perhaps it would give an unfair advantage to those that were earning money rather than the younger members who possibly rely on parents for subsidising them.

For those that say the collectibles are just pixels and therefore a waste of money, everybody wastes money on something or other, so that argument does not hold, people will always spend money on something that gives them enjoyment, it is their choice what it is.

There is no denying that unless the admins scrap the collectibles, with their recent surge in popularity are more and more in demand. 

So, up for discussion is "Should TBT bells be sold by the BellTree for real money" ?


----------



## oath2order (Nov 5, 2014)

Dear god no that sounds like a terrible idea.


----------



## nard (Nov 5, 2014)

I'd rather not pay to do things on the site.


----------



## Lovelylexi (Nov 5, 2014)

No way, in my opinion. Paying for a tiny image that literally just sits there and does nothing sounds ridiculous. The way the TBT method works is just fine and it should stay that way. Plus, imagine how much trouble could come out of using real money, like if a person manages to scam someone out of real money - that's a lot worse than losing TBT bells and there isn't much of a way to get it back. There's just too many complications that would come with using real money for something that isn't even necessarily worth real money.


----------



## FancyThat (Nov 5, 2014)

I see what you're saying about people paying for currency in game with real money, I do this with The Simpsons:Tapped out and I suppose DLC add ons could be counted as I use real money for those. But I buy that currency from big companies (EA, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft etc) not individual people, I wouldn't feel comfortable buying TBT with real money from individuals. But as you said the money could be used to benefit the forum I think you meant the site offers bundles of TBT like the mobile/Facebook games ie 1500 TBT for X amount of real money.

I've been on websites that were free but offered a premium service for a yearly or one off subscription and you got perks for going premium. Not sure it would work here or if the site even needs more money but if something like that was offered maybe premium users earned more TBT per post or something idk.


----------



## BiggKitty (Nov 5, 2014)

Lovelylexi said:


> No way, in my opinion. Paying for a tiny image that literally just sits there and does nothing sounds ridiculous. The way the TBT method works is just fine and it should stay that way. Plus, imagine how much trouble could come out of using real money, like if a person manages to scam someone out of real money - that's a lot worse than losing TBT bells and there isn't much of a way to get it back. There's just too many complications that would come with using real money for something that isn't even necessarily worth real money.



Players are already buying TBT for real money behind the scenes, my idea was to stop that by Bell Tree itself offering say 100 TBT for x amount real money, there would be no scamming involved then and any money made could be invested back into the BellTree site. Surely there have to be ideas that Jeremy has for the Forum that could benefit from an injection of cash?


----------



## LyraVale (Nov 5, 2014)

Considering that time is money, we've all spent "real life money" on these collectibles in a way. SO I wouldn't judge someone for wanting to just throw some cash at it all. But I don't like the idea tbh. I think it would really take away the fun of collecting.

I realize people are already doing it with the eshop credits etc...but that's still fun for them, since it involves trading, and wheelin and dealin. They're still actively participating on the forums, and interacting with other users. If they could just pay some cash, buy somt tbt, go get some collectibles, and then be done...they would get pretty bored of collectibles.

Also, I know you were just using it as an example, but I personally hate FB, because of the way the way its so aggressive about getting people's money, info, time, etc....it's like once you step into the FB vortex it's all stripped away from you little by little lol. I get that this may be just my own issue, but seriously, if TBT ever started following a FB type model in any way, I would be VERY very sad. 

Basically, this site is great because you can come here and leave real life stuff somewhere else for a while. It's a little kingdom of its own, and it would be sad to see it get invaded by more powerful foreign influences (in this case the big bad REAL LIFE).


----------



## Skyfall (Nov 5, 2014)

My response is also not fully thought out, I am just basically thinking out loud as I write this, but I dont think this is a bad idea.  I do work, so throwing a little money for it as oppose to spending time (which has really shrunk for me) is not a bad thing.  

I know that on facebook and on sites like Gaia real life money IS spent on pixels.  Does anyone have experience on how that works?  Does that schew the marketplace in favor of the real life wealthy?  What impact does it have on the value of the virtual currency?

On a separate note, this may create a huge headache for the admins legally as soon as real life anything is created, it subjects to the site to a differernt set of regulations and laws, I think.  

I do agree though, the reason why TBT is so valued by many is because "real" currency, of our time, has been already been spent.  Well put on that.


----------



## Kammeh (Nov 5, 2014)

LyraVale said:


> Basically, this site is great because you can come here and leave real life stuff somewhere else for a while. It's a little kingdom of its own, and it would be sad to see it get invaded by more powerful foreign influences (in this case the big bad REAL LIFE).



Hahaha, yes, this!!


----------



## SharJoY (Nov 5, 2014)

I am not a fan of the idea for several reasons.  FB is a corporation, so they have paid staff, to handle the site and all that entails.  Whereas, here the staff volunteer all their time and efforts, etc (at least I do not think they are FT paid staff), so adding a paid feature would just be so much more time consuming, and more headaches (they would need to stock up on ibuprofen for sure - little humor here).  Collecting them is fun, gives me something to do, but would I pay real money, no.  As for the potential for adding revenue for maintaining the site - well, I would prefer making a donation, such as was done before, and get a unique collectible for doing so.  For me being able to buy them with real money would take away the fun of collecting them, and I would probably stop.


----------



## Cuppycakez (Nov 5, 2014)

I say no because I'm pretty sure there is lots of people under 15-16 who don't have jobs or anything so it's like yar har parents give me moneysss


----------



## Mercedes (Nov 5, 2014)

Yes but is should be 100 TBT 99 cent and the higher you go the more TBT. But the TBT rates might Skye rocket so idk.


----------



## lazuli (Nov 5, 2014)

Luckypinch said:


> Yes but is should be 100 TBT 99 cent and the higher you go the more TBT. But the TBT rates might Skye rocket so idk.



ok this whole topic is dumb, esp ^ (I AINT PAYING $10 FOR 1kTBT)

tbt is on vBullentin, which is a paid forum ANYWAYS. donations and such could get members lil things like a special collectible or tbt credits or WHATEVER but not directly buying tbt for real $$$
then theres the issue of lil kids here (talkin like 8 or 9 years old) spendin like a hundred dollars for TBT credits.
and also the money conversion because not everybody who uses the forums uses USD.


----------



## Mercedes (Nov 5, 2014)

computertrash said:


> ok this whole topic is dumb, esp ^ (I AINT PAYING $10 FOR 1kTBT)
> 
> tbt is on vBullentin, which is a paid forum ANYWAYS. donations and such could get members lil things like a special collectible or tbt credits or WHATEVER but not directly buying tbt for real $$$
> then theres the issue of lil kids here (talkin like 8 or 9 years old) spendin like a hundred dollars for TBT credits.
> and also the money conversion because not everybody who uses the forums uses USD.



Nono no. You have got it all wrong. 99 cent is the lest, and then at 4;99 we could get 800 TBT and so on and so forthz


----------



## Cuppycakez (Nov 5, 2014)

I mean, I'm just thinking. If this becomes a thing, everything in the market will be raised a BUNCH by price. Collectibles are already a bunch of TBT. For example a blue candy sells for 2-2.5k. That could quickly become 5-5.5k because everyone would have more to spend, so people would raise prices. Not to mention how hard it would be for people who CAN'T afford to buy online fake money. It would be impossible for them to get anything because they would just be doing the general posting for 2 TBT each.


----------



## Justin (Nov 5, 2014)

I don't think we would ever directly sell Bells, but we definitely have and are continually considering other possible monetary donation options.


----------



## Danielkang2 (Nov 5, 2014)

Even if Justin did sell tbt I bet eshop cards and download codes go for much more than justin is selling them at.


----------



## Javocado (Nov 5, 2014)

I ain't tryna have another Gaia Online fam.
Bad idea, but I see where you're coming from.


----------



## Cuppycakez (Nov 5, 2014)

Justin said:


> I don't think we would ever directly sell Bells, but we definitely have and are continually considering other possible monetary donation options.



Collectible for donating? Heh heh???


----------



## nard (Nov 5, 2014)

Cuppycakez said:


> Collectible for donating? Heh heh???



yas like maybe a little cent/dollar bill collectible


----------



## Aradai (Nov 5, 2014)

paying real money for forum currency is pretty much ridiculous in my opinion. it's like those items you can buy in mobile games; it helps you at first, but in the long run it was a waste.


----------



## Yui Z (Nov 5, 2014)

No, I don't think bells should be sold for real money. Buying virtual things for real money can become a massive addiction and I think I'd choke if I heard about someone paying a large amount of money for TBT bells. Maybe for the generosity to help keep the site running smoothly, but not for the pixels themselves. Of course people do it all the time on all sorts of virtual sites, but honestly those are the sites I tend to stay clear of (that's just me, haha).

At the same time, it _would_ be good for the site to get a little pocket money in and I'm sure it would be helpful to help keep things going nicely. That's why I think that the optional donation thing is a good idea. I think TBT is a pretty fairly-run site overall, and that's one of the things I like about it.


----------



## Cuppycakez (Nov 5, 2014)

^^^ I want to send you an orange. But off topic. 
I agree with you for the most part though. ^^^


----------



## Lavandula (Nov 5, 2014)

Sparkanine said:


> paying real money for forum currency is pretty much ridiculous in my opinion. it's like those items you can buy in mobile games; it helps you at first, but in the long run it was a waste.



I totally agree. I play the game and visit the forum as a hobby; I in no way intend on emptying my bank account over it. 

It would be a lot like gambling, a bad habit and waste of money.


----------



## BiggKitty (Nov 6, 2014)

Justin said:


> I don't think we would ever directly sell Bells, but we definitely have and are continually considering other possible monetary donation options.



The idea of monetary donations to help the Bell Tree continue to improve is a good one and I am sure there would be many willing to partake in any scheme to assist.
Before my time, but I know the members who donated previously were given a token of appreciation, comprising a bag of bells collectible.  I imagine with the current collectible frenzy a similar thank you gesture might not be appropriate, as these days might that be construed as a forum transaction for real money. However, you would for certain receive more donations  should that be the case.


----------



## Cuppycakez (Nov 6, 2014)

BiggKitty said:


> The idea of monetary onations to help the Bell Tree continue to improve is a good one and I am sure there would be many willing to partake in any scheme to assist.
> Before my time, but I know the members who donated previously were given a token of appreciation, comprising a bag of bells collectible.  I imagine with the current collectible frenzy a similar thank you gesture might not be appropriate, as these days might that be construed as a forum transaction for real money. However, you would for certain receive more donations  should that be the case.


I might be able to help donate. The collectible would just be a bonus.  
I didn't get to donate during the last thing because I wasn't even here (I don't think).


----------



## J087 (Nov 6, 2014)

> "Should TBT bells be sold by the BellTree for real money"



*No. Why would you even consider suggesting such a thing?*

If you want more bells you will have to be more active. It's simple as that. If you support such an idea you'll be responsible for the downfall of the forum.


----------



## Sanaki (Nov 6, 2014)

It's fine the way it is, if people actually paid for TBT bells from the site they wouldn't be worth as much if you were to just post and earn them and have the market build up the way it is currently.


----------



## Mercedes (Nov 6, 2014)

I know some of you guys think it's a bad idea, but...I mean it could help jubs out. It should be up to the person who wants to buy or not to buy. So why not just have it?


----------



## Cuppycakez (Nov 6, 2014)

Luckypinch said:


> I know some of you guys think it's a bad idea, but...I mean it could help jubs out. It should be up to the person who wants to buy or not to buy. So why not just have it?



Because, in the end it would ruin the whole market.  

It would still help Jubs out if we did a donation thing.


----------



## oath2order (Nov 7, 2014)

Luckypinch said:


> I know some of you guys think it's a bad idea, but...I mean it could help jubs out. It should be up to the person who wants to buy or not to buy. So why not just have it?



It won't happen because Jubs said it's not something they're considering


----------



## Mercedes (Nov 7, 2014)

Well Mabye I just wanna buy tbt bells and not have to do an ingame trade.


----------



## oath2order (Nov 7, 2014)

Luckypinch said:


> Well Mabye I just wanna buy tbt bells and not have to do an ingame trade.



Be that as it may, it's not under consideration according to the mods so like, it's not happening.


----------



## Sholee (Nov 7, 2014)

i don't think it would work because the people that are willing to pay cash for forum bells will basically dictate the market. I agree that if TBT needs money, donations would be the best way~


----------



## LambdaDelta (Nov 7, 2014)

pretty sure the admins have access to PM logs


----------



## Cuppycakez (Nov 7, 2014)

LambdaDelta said:


> pretty sure the admins have access to PM logs




They have access to everything.  
They rule this place like the kings they are!


----------



## Danielkang2 (Nov 7, 2014)

;-; Just let the sales of Eshop Cards be allowed. I just don't get it. It's nintendo related, not like paypal (which almost all gaming forums allow) You buy it to buy games lol not to sell it for "cash" which it represent.


----------



## Katelyn (Nov 7, 2014)

If TBT/BTB was ever sold for actual money, I would probably leave this site xD


----------



## Danielkang2 (Nov 7, 2014)

Just Clarifying. BiggKitty meant selling tbt for money on top of all the other ways we can earn tbt. Not the only way.


----------



## Cuppycakez (Nov 7, 2014)

katiegurl1223 said:


> If TBT/BTB was ever sold for actual money, I would probably leave this site xD



I mean, I probably would too. Since I can't even visit other towns or trade with people, this website has a purpose still with me collecting collectibles. If they sold TBT for real money the market would crash and I wouldn't be able to get collectibles, so good bye TBT for me.  Good thing Jubs said it's not happening. 



Luckypinch said:


> Well Mabye I just wanna buy tbt bells and not have to do an ingame trade.



That's the way it is.   But then again, there's unfortunate little me, who can't even visit other towns in the first place.


----------



## Trent the Paladin (Nov 7, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> ;-; Just let the sales of Eshop Cards be allowed. I just don't get it. It's nintendo related, not like paypal (which almost all gaming forums allow) You buy it to buy games lol not to sell it for "cash" which it represent.


It still has real world monetary value and you could easily buy it low for TBT and sell it high. Until it's been redeemed, it is of real world value. I mean if I really didn't care for it, but a friend did I could easily trade the eShop code for maybe a gift card to a restaurant like Chili's. Games have real world value as well, but are much more specific and their value will constantly fluctuate based off the market. 



Danielkang2 said:


> Just Clarifying. BiggKitty meant selling tbt for money on top of all the other ways we can earn tbt. Not the only way.


Still cheating the system to get ahead. Get that free to play mindset out of here.


----------



## radical6 (Nov 7, 2014)

tbh I've seen forums do this with their currency but it doesn't seem very useful. If people really want to help TBT out, then they could set up a donation bank? TBT could also do some little special member perk like other forums do if you help out and donate (ex get slightly bigger icons for example) or something. Doubt they would ever do that tho


----------



## oath2order (Nov 8, 2014)

justice said:


> tbh I've seen forums do this with their currency but it doesn't seem very useful. If people really want to help TBT out, then they could set up a donation bank? TBT could also do some little special member perk like other forums do if you help out and donate (ex get slightly bigger icons for example) or something. Doubt they would ever do that tho



you can have the coveted 150x150 avatar if you donate!


----------



## Cuppycakez (Nov 8, 2014)

oath2order said:


> you can have the coveted 150x150 avatar if you donate!



How do I donate?!?! Is there already something set up?


----------



## oath2order (Nov 8, 2014)

Cuppycakez said:


> How do I donate?!?! Is there already something set up?



It's a joke. There are no donations.


----------



## Cuppycakez (Nov 9, 2014)




----------



## Zulehan (Nov 9, 2014)

oath2order said:


> It's a joke. There are no donations.


Lies! Tell me now!

More seriously, would love to have that 150x150, but understand it being a neat perk for staffers.


----------



## BiggKitty (Nov 9, 2014)

Danielkang2 said:


> Just Clarifying. BiggKitty meant selling tbt for money on top of all the other ways we can earn tbt. Not the only way.



No, I am meaning that Bell Tree Forum itself sell blocks of  perhaps 100 TBT bells for a set price, not individuals flogging off their own TBT. No one would have to buy them, but if they wanted a few TBT they would have an opportunity to purchase them legitimately.


----------



## Cuppycakez (Nov 9, 2014)

Yeah. But then again we go to the pricing problem and all. But Jubs said its not happening so I'm not going to worry.


----------



## Tinkalila (Nov 9, 2014)

I honestly like the idea of purchasing btb directly, it's something to be considered. (Not that I'd ever find myself buying btb, way too broke for that.) In a sense, btb already has a good amount of "real world value". People sell demo codes on here often, which could be considered something that'd be paid for with real currency, in other communities. There's also a couple of pokemon shops here, which means btb has value outside of just the AC series. Selling btb could only be beneficial, the site would make money for further improvements without excessive advertisements, and it may help prevent scamming immensely.

I do only have one worry about it though. If buying btb becomes a popular thing, then the "economy" that has been created might be disturbed. The value of btb would go down. But then again, this is not neccesarily a problem. In fact, the value btb going down may even be considered beneficial.

Lots of people buy btb, and tbt makes money. Since so many people bought btb, the value has gone down because there is more going around. Since the value of btb has gone down, people want more btb for whatever they're selling, so everyone posts more to earn more btb. Now tbt is not only more active, but they've also got money to spend on improving the site, advertising the site, and possibly even doing AC related giveaways. Everyone benefits.


----------



## Cuppycakez (Nov 9, 2014)

Tinkalila said:


> I honestly like the idea of purchasing btb directly, it's something to be considered. (Not that I'd ever find myself buying btb, way too broke for that.) In a sense, btb already has a good amount of "real world value". People sell demo codes on here often, which could be considered something that'd be paid for with real currency, in other communities. There's also a couple of pokemon shops here, which means btb has value outside of just the AC series. Selling btb could only be beneficial, the site would make money for further improvements without excessive advertisements, and it may help prevent scamming immensely.
> 
> I do only have one worry about it though. If buying btb becomes a popular thing, then the "economy" that has been created might be disturbed. The value of btb would go down. But then again, this is not neccesarily a problem. In fact, the value btb going down may even be considered beneficial.
> 
> Lots of people buy btb, and tbt makes money. Since so many people bought btb, the value has gone down because there is more going around. Since the value of btb has gone down, people want more btb for whatever they're selling, so everyone posts more to earn more btb. Now tbt is not only more active, but they've also got money to spend on improving the site, advertising the site, and possibly even doing AC related giveaways. Everyone benefits.


Not those who can't afford/can't buy BTB for real money.  They'd have less BTB then others who can buy. 

But you have some good points.


----------



## Tinkalila (Nov 9, 2014)

Cuppycakez said:


> Not those who can't afford/can't buy BTB for real money.  They'd have less BTB then others who can buy.
> 
> But you have some good points.



I know. One of the first things I said is that I wouldn't buy btb. And, of course, probably no one will be hoarding their btb. Having less btb than someone else is not a problem. The point of btb is to buy things with it. The btb will circulate, as per usual.


----------

