Question about the Moral Event Horizon

[-Apples-]

In case if you don?t know what that is, the Moral Event Horizon is a point where a villain is so evil that they cannot be redeemed. A character in fiction can pass this point if they did something extremely evil (including morals, ethics, law etc). And if they go even further than that, they are a complete monster.

Here?s my question about the Moral Event Horizon. Is this possible in real life? On the site that came up with this concept, they don?t allow real life examples, but there is already a lot of evil in history and today. Is it really possible to cross the Moral Event Horizon in real life, or does it not exist in reality?

 

[Stella-Io]

I think yes. People are so hard to change for the better, that going downhill is easy since that person has already done X amount of evil. At that point it's just like they hit the F-it switch and have no concern for morals or ethics. However I think this is very rare in our society, that it's really seen in extremes, like maniac killers who do such crazy insane stuff. The guy from Silence of the Lambs comes to mind, he's an extreme because not only did he murder, but he boiled skin and wore it (maybe that was another movie? I'm actually not to sure). The only time we see this in real life is when a case goes public because of the crazy actions the person did and on crime channel documentaries.

 

[-Apples-]

I think yes. People are so hard to change for the better, that going downhill is easy since that person has already done X amount of evil. At that point it's just like they hit the F-it switch and have no concern for morals or ethics. However I think this is very rare in our society, that it's really seen in extremes, like maniac killers who do such crazy insane stuff. The guy from Silence of the Lambs comes to mind, he's an extreme because not only did he murder, but he boiled skin and wore it (maybe that was another movie? I'm actually not to sure). The only time we see this in real life is when a case goes public because of the crazy actions the person did and on crime channel documentaries.

Thanks for your answer. In my opinion, I do think the Moral Event Horizon is not just limited to murder. It could also apply to other moral cases that would take you to a level so dark that light will not work. Real Examples include:

Eric Swalwell - suggested nuking our citizens if they rebel against him or his policies. Once a dictator starts killing people that oppose them or their policies, he has gone off the deep-end, but this is at a whole new level. Whether or not he did it, the fact that he suggested it made him cross this point.
John Edwards - cheated on his wife while she had breast cancer. He even had a child out of the person he had an affair with.
Fred Phelps - picketed the funerals of all the kids that died in the Sandy Hook Massacre (an attack against mostly children). Knowing Westboro Baptist Church?s hateful background and why they do this, he has passed that point when they did it to the kids that died in the shooting.

I don?t know if these unusual cases are bad enough to pass that point, or if they are just controversies like everything else. But they are unimaginably evil.

 

[Fey]

god this question is right up my alley, and I wish I had more time to think and respond. My initial thoughts are this though:

It?s difficult to fully adapt this concept from TV to reality because of the fundamental differences between them.

It?s true that real people can be just as awful as any character, and also that once they?ve been awful to a certain extent, or for long enough of a time, it?s unlikely that they?ll change much for the better.
However, their likelihood of ?redemption? is still higher than a character?s?simple because they are NOT just a character.

A character is written to be irredeemable?we see them crossing the point of no return and know exactly where they?re going, and that it won?t end well*
A real person always has a chance to change, because they aren?t bound by the rules of storytelling. Even if it?s the slimmest chance possible?as long as it?s above 0% they can?t be called irredeemable.

*exceptions exist, but specifically to subvert expectations

 

[Buttonsy]

Are you asking if there is a certain point where you become so evil you can never get better, or if there is a certain point where if you do something evil, no one will be able to forgive you for it? Basically, are you asking redeemed in terms of self-improvement, or redeemed in terms of societal approval?

 

[-Apples-]

Are you asking if there is a certain point where you become so evil you can never get better, or if there is a certain point where if you do something evil, no one will be able to forgive you for it? Basically, are you asking redeemed in terms of self-improvement, or redeemed in terms of societal approval?

It’s an ambiguous case, as this could mean both. It could also mean that one has gone so far that they don’t even have standards (like if a heinous criminal starts killing witnesses or authority), or they hit a low point in morality or ethics (like when Nicolas Maduro burned food given by foreign aid). But I would like an answer to that first question because there are already cases when society will never forgive.

 

[Fey]

I think it's less a specific action that decides that point, but the overall mindset of a person.
Some actions, like your examples, are easy for us to evaluate as bad?but I believe that the real "evil" already rooted in their personality much before.

Even to lesser degrees, traits like selfishness, greed, or a desire to control others are fairly difficult to shake off once they've developed. A person whose personality takes these traits to the extreme is very unlikely to undergo a change of character, because it would mean undoing potentially decades of development in that direction. Depending on how far they've gone, there would be little incentive for them to change because a) what they're doing is working for them, and/or b) they would have little to gain from changing at that point.

 

[Bowie]

Evil doesn’t really exist. I personally believe everyone thinks they are doing the right thing, it’s just that their idea of the “right thing” is horribly twisted.

 

[visibleghost]

idk if there can be like an objective moral horizon that can be crossed but people can definitely cross a line when they just can't be excused or forgiven for what they've done by the people around them. it's not as easy as "this person is 100% evil" but people can be Really Bad dude

 

[Reginald Fairfield]

In case if you don’t know what that is, the Moral Event Horizon is a point where a villain is so evil that they cannot be redeemed. A character in fiction can pass this point if they did something extremely evil (including morals, ethics, law etc). And if they go even further than that, they are a complete monster.

Here’s my question about the Moral Event Horizon. Is this possible in real life? On the site that came up with this concept, they don’t allow real life examples, but there is already a lot of evil in history and today. Is it really possible to cross the Moral Event Horizon in real life, or does it not exist in reality?

I don't like the idea of anyone on a whim declaring me evil, and beyond redemption.

 

[LadyDestani]

I think humans are too complex to ever be truly 100% evil. Some people may have evil tendencies and a few may even be more evil than good, but everyone has their own reasons for the things they do. They may think they are doing the right the thing even if the majority of people think they are wrong.

I have done things that I know were wrong and would be judged harshly by others if they found out, but I also had my reasons for doing those things. I have to live with the guilt of my actions, but I still wouldn't change what I did. It was necessary for me to move on with life.

So I don't think a person is ever beyond redemption or completely evil, but I think there is still a lot of evil in society and human nature in general.

 

[Reginald Fairfield]

I think humans are too complex to ever be truly 100% evil. Some people may have evil tendencies and a few may even be more evil than good, but everyone has their own reasons for the things they do. They may think they are doing the right the thing even if the majority of people think they are wrong.

I have done things that I know were wrong and would be judged harshly by others if they found out, but I also had my reasons for doing those things. I have to live with the guilt of my actions, but I still wouldn't change what I did. It was necessary for me to move on with life.

So I don't think a person is ever beyond redemption or completely evil, but I think there is still a lot of evil in society and human nature in general.

Evil is as evil does.

 

[-Apples-]

I think humans are too complex to ever be truly 100% evil. Some people may have evil tendencies and a few may even be more evil than good, but everyone has their own reasons for the things they do. They may think they are doing the right the thing even if the majority of people think they are wrong.

I have done things that I know were wrong and would be judged harshly by others if they found out, but I also had my reasons for doing those things. I have to live with the guilt of my actions, but I still wouldn't change what I did. It was necessary for me to move on with life.

So I don't think a person is ever beyond redemption or completely evil, but I think there is still a lot of evil in society and human nature in general.

That is actually true. Even in fiction, some villains that have crossed the Moral Event Horizon have their standards and their heroic moments. What is impossible is if a real-life villain can be a complete monster (when they are far past the Moral Event Horizon). Like those examples I listed (as well as Nicolas Maduro in a later post). They aren’t complete monsters. They just crossed that point for going very far.

 

[Reginald Fairfield]

That is actually true. Even in fiction, some villains that have crossed the Moral Event Horizon have their standards and their heroic moments. What is impossible is if a real-life villain can be a complete monster (when they are far past the Moral Event Horizon). Like those examples I listed (as well as Nicolas Maduro in a later post). They aren’t complete monsters. They just crossed that point for going very far.

Recently the definitions of words have been changing. Paula Deen admitted she said a horrible word at one point. Lost all opportunity to make money.