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Should the rich pay a higher percentage of taxes?

Should tax percentages for rich and poor be equal?

  • No, rich people should pay a higher percentage.

    Votes: 83 87.4%
  • Yes, tax percentage should be equal.

    Votes: 12 12.6%

  • Total voters
    95
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UglyMonsterFace

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This is not a discussion of anything else. I just want to know everyone's opinions on this. Example: Should a millionaire pay 35% in taxes while the average joe pays 15%? Please don't bring up tax evasion or corruption, etc. Just whether or not tax percentages should be equal for all, assuming no one is cheating on taxes. And please keep discussion polite and do not name call :)
 
I would say yes. We live in a modern day society where the rich get richer and the poor more poor. I think after this covid situation seeing all the corrupt billionaires letting staff go/refusing to pay the first week of lockdowns wage etc.. wrong. Working class work hard for their money (I know🙋🏻‍♀️). I think it should be a cap though, not just well off people, I mean rich rich people.
 
Idk, even if they have more money, they still have the same rights as everyone. Not all cases, but does it means that if you work hard and your business gets successful, you have to pay more, I believe that is why brackets exist. I will vote no, doesn't seem fair to me, and I ain't no millionaire.
 
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I voted yes in the poll because I didn’t read it clearly and thought I was voting “yes” to higher taxes for the rich, but I actually agree with the “no” option in the poll.
 
I'm going to preface this by saying that it's actually very difficult for me to answer (and that anything I say here is only going to really be relevant to America).

I like the graduated income tax. I agree that someone making say 20k a year should be taxed way less than someone making 100k, 500k, or 1mil.

My problem, however, isn't in the graduated income tax system. My problem is how itemized deductions work, especially for businesses.

Why can someone who is ultra-rich take a luxury vacation, spending probably more than I make in 2-3 months, and deduct that entire amount from their taxable income as "business expenses"?

Why can someone who is ultra-rich send gifts to their family/friends, passing wealth onto their children, and deduct that amount from their taxable income under "gift and estate exemptions"? Why can I claim UP TO 11.8 MILLION DOLLARS using this tax law? (btw this doesn't actually make sense to set up unless you have at least 5mil to throw at it, so it's definitely targeted at the super wealthy).

However, this STILL manages to screw over certain people in the highest tax brackets.
As a smaller business owner (albeit successful if your networth is over 1mil), it's hard to know, sometimes, that for every dollar you make, the government is taking more than half of it. If you're a less spendy millionaire, it can be hard to acknowledge that you're paying more in taxes than the ultra-wealthy because you're not taking advantage of every deduction in the book.

The deductions still benefit middle to upper americans, though. Which is why they're still in place.

Honestly imho the limit for the gift/estate exemptions needs to be significantly lowered (though to note, it was doubled in 2018 from the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act and will be lowered in 2025), and what qualifies as "business expenses" needs to be significantly reconsidered. With that, the graduated income tax can work.

A family vacation to Greece is not a business expense.

But I honestly think it would be better to have a value-added tax or something similar. Something that's assessed in multiple layers, but is a somewhat flat rate. Because with our current system, it definitely gets abused far too easily.

Then with that value-added system, pay out checks to families so that for poorer individuals, they get more than what the put in, and for richer individuals, they get less than what they paid in taxes.

(you NEED both of these to work together, you can't just give out checks with our current system, and you can't just change our current taxation system.)
 
No, they should pay the same percentage according to their income and net worth. They need the same rights and responsibilities as every citizen. It's more important to make it impossible for a company to earn billions of dollars on immoral business decisions and put it in the hands of a single shareholder. I really don't want to derail the thread, but the loan of workers should be percentual to the earnings of the company with minimum wage being a safety net. Working for a big company should be an accomplishment, not your last resort.
 
Even if the tax rate is flat, the rich are still paying more in tax dollars than the poor. Let’s say that one person making $100,000 a year pays a 10% income tax and another person making $1,000,000 a year pays a 10% income tax. The middle class person is paying $10,000 in taxes, and the rich person is paying $100,000 in taxes.

I think income taxes should be flat, but property taxes should vary.
 
Regardless of whether tax is proportionate or not, the wealthy will always be paying more because 10% of 1,000,000 is going to be more than 10% of 10,000. I personally believe that it is not the tax rate itself that is the problem, but exploitable loopholes that make it so that anyone does not have to pay the full tax amount they are quoted to do so.

However, at the point at which tax rates functionally become too high for any citizen to manage, that citizen may decide to move and take their business elsewhere in favour of somewhere that is more financially favourable to themselves. Of course, that decision is easier to make for someone with money than someone without, but increasing tax rates/brackets too much could incentivize a flight of important capital. Tax the rich, but don't tax them so much that they'll leave and you'll lose the benefits of their taxes.

There's also the question of what rich really means. Is a rich person someone who has relatively more money than you? Is someone who earns $100,000 a year in a city like San Francisco really rich when you consider the high cost of living associated with living in a city like that? Should some 'rich' people get subsidies or deductions on taxes if they are demonstrably contributing to society in important ways such as employment of a large portion of the population or significant charitable donations?

It's interesting to note that countries/states/cities have a lot to gain from keeping wealthy people as taxpayers and residents of their region. If they're paying more taxes, that's more money that can be used towards spending on public services and keeping the region afloat. If they are at the head of a large company that's headquartered in that particular area, that gives employment (and wealth) to many other people.

Sometimes, there can be severe and unintended consequences when tax rates, or methods of taxation, are increased on the rich. In France for example, the system of wealth tax was changed in 2018 in favour of a tax on real estate. Previously, households with more than €1.3 million in revenue could write off 75% of charitable contributions (up to €50,000) off of their taxes. To simplify the situation, under the new law, only half as many people could do the same write-off, and it led to French charities losing a lot of money. France Générosité, which represents 97 charities, saw a €200 million decrease in charitable income in 2018 alone, and only amongst their represented members, and cites the wealth tax change as one of the main contributors of this decline.

In this case, trying to tax the rich more by changing taxation rules ended up having a severe impact on charities, many of whom had to cut their services in light of this lost income. Everything is so connected in our society that it's easy to say "tax the rich" or "eat the rich" without considering the importance of a rich person in society.
 
Regardless of whether tax is proportionate or not, the wealthy will always be paying more because 10% of 1,000,000 is going to be more than 10% of 10,000. I personally believe that it is not the tax rate itself that is the problem, but exploitable loopholes that make it so that anyone does not have to pay the full tax amount they are quoted to do so.

However, at the point at which tax rates functionally become too high for any citizen to manage, that citizen may decide to move and take their business elsewhere in favour of somewhere that is more financially favourable to themselves. Of course, that decision is easier to make for someone with money than someone without, but increasing tax rates/brackets too much could incentivize a flight of important capital. Tax the rich, but don't tax them so much that they'll leave and you'll lose the benefits of their taxes.

There's also the question of what rich really means. Is a rich person someone who has relatively more money than you? Is someone who earns $100,000 a year in a city like San Francisco really rich when you consider the high cost of living associated with living in a city like that? Should some 'rich' people get subsidies or deductions on taxes if they are demonstrably contributing to society in important ways such as employment of a large portion of the population or significant charitable donations?

It's interesting to note that countries/states/cities have a lot to gain from keeping wealthy people as taxpayers and residents of their region. If they're paying more taxes, that's more money that can be used towards spending on public services and keeping the region afloat. If they are at the head of a large company that's headquartered in that particular area, that gives employment (and wealth) to many other people.

Sometimes, there can be severe and unintended consequences when tax rates, or methods of taxation, are increased on the rich. In France for example, the system of wealth tax was changed in 2018 in favour of a tax on real estate. Previously, households with more than €1.3 million in revenue could write off 75% of charitable contributions (up to €50,000) off of their taxes. To simplify the situation, under the new law, only half as many people could do the same write-off, and it led to French charities losing a lot of money. France Générosité, which represents 97 charities, saw a €200 million decrease in charitable income in 2018 alone, and only amongst their represented members, and cites the wealth tax change as one of the main contributors of this decline.

In this case, trying to tax the rich more by changing taxation rules ended up having a severe impact on charities, many of whom had to cut their services in light of this lost income. Everything is so connected in our society that it's easy to say "tax the rich" or "eat the rich" without considering the importance of a rich person in society.

This is so well stated. I do think that the rich should pay more, but that doesn't necessarily translate to paying a higher percentage. What needs to be dealt with is the assumption, whether it's true or false, that the rich are manipulating the system and dodging their taxes. Everybody should be paying their fair share.
 
Of course they should. 35 percent of a billion isn't even something the billionaire in question would feel.

Now if you make 30k a year...yeah now try living without that 35 percent. And good luck. See you at goodwill.

The truly super wealthy, we're talking the upper one percent, should be taxed at nearly 50 percent though. They still don't feel it and it helps incentivize them to use their remaining fortune to create more industry and jobs, further strengthening the economy while lessening the tax burden on the simply rich (Say those that make 500k a year) who won't have enough capital to work with if they were in the same situation.

Also I assume this is in discussion about a flat-tax. If we're only talking about those who currently pay income tax (making a little over 100k a year for a single filer) then I would extend this opinion.

Those that make under 200k shouldn't be paying income tax at all either. Just like most of us don't. Those brackets were set back when 100k had the buying power of 2 or 3 hundred k. And again this would be offset by shuffling the tax burden onto the backs of the wealthy. 200k a year isn't wealth. It's just a decent income.
 
Regardless of whether tax is proportionate or not, the wealthy will always be paying more because 10% of 1,000,000 is going to be more than 10% of 10,000. I personally believe that it is not the tax rate itself that is the problem, but exploitable loopholes that make it so that anyone does not have to pay the full tax amount they are quoted to do so.

However, at the point at which tax rates functionally become too high for any citizen to manage, that citizen may decide to move and take their business elsewhere in favour of somewhere that is more financially favourable to themselves. Of course, that decision is easier to make for someone with money than someone without, but increasing tax rates/brackets too much could incentivize a flight of important capital. Tax the rich, but don't tax them so much that they'll leave and you'll lose the benefits of their taxes.

There's also the question of what rich really means. Is a rich person someone who has relatively more money than you? Is someone who earns $100,000 a year in a city like San Francisco really rich when you consider the high cost of living associated with living in a city like that? Should some 'rich' people get subsidies or deductions on taxes if they are demonstrably contributing to society in important ways such as employment of a large portion of the population or significant charitable donations?

It's interesting to note that countries/states/cities have a lot to gain from keeping wealthy people as taxpayers and residents of their region. If they're paying more taxes, that's more money that can be used towards spending on public services and keeping the region afloat. If they are at the head of a large company that's headquartered in that particular area, that gives employment (and wealth) to many other people.

Sometimes, there can be severe and unintended consequences when tax rates, or methods of taxation, are increased on the rich. In France for example, the system of wealth tax was changed in 2018 in favour of a tax on real estate. Previously, households with more than €1.3 million in revenue could write off 75% of charitable contributions (up to €50,000) off of their taxes. To simplify the situation, under the new law, only half as many people could do the same write-off, and it led to French charities losing a lot of money. France Générosité, which represents 97 charities, saw a €200 million decrease in charitable income in 2018 alone, and only amongst their represented members, and cites the wealth tax change as one of the main contributors of this decline.

In this case, trying to tax the rich more by changing taxation rules ended up having a severe impact on charities, many of whom had to cut their services in light of this lost income. Everything is so connected in our society that it's easy to say "tax the rich" or "eat the rich" without considering the importance of a rich person in society.
I think most rich people aren't so extraordinarily talented that we can't afford to lose them. Most super rich people aren't rich because they're great leaders and visionaries; they're rich because they're really good at gaming the capitalist system. Rich people can move to different locations, but they can't just take all of their workforce talent and infrastructure with them with the snap of a finger. There's a reason why a lot of big businesses in the U.S. are based in higher tax areas like New York or California, and no one is going to have a Fortune 500 company in Idaho even if the tax incentives are great. If a business owner decides to leave for somewhere else, there will be lost jobs, but there is also a lot of opportunity to fill the void left behind, and that opportunity for new innovation is arguably more valuable for a community's long-term success than having someone with a large bank account signing checks. If the only reason a business owner is operating in your city/state/province/country is because of tax incentives, they are probably someone you don't really want in your community.

I'm also not a fan of letting rich people be the deciders of which charities are worthy of being supported. I'd rather just see society tax them more heavily to invest in a stronger social safety net and let the public decide which causes should be funded. I'd gladly pay more in taxes to support worthy causes provided wealthy people are also required to do so as well. It would be nice to not have to see those causes have to stoop to begging people for donations and instead have those causes be adequately supported by the government.

Trump is the poster child for why wealthy people need to be taxed more. He inherited a bunch of money from his daddy and took advantage of tax loopholes, scams, and stiffing employees to build a fortune while having countless failed business ventures. He makes no real contribution to society other than employing people at substandard wages, and his charities are fake. He and people like him absolutely should be taxed the hell out of, and if they want to leave for Russia, good riddance. We can then pay construction workers and other skilled laborers to do real infrastructure projects instead of gaudy country clubs and hotels.
 
But like, the point of percentages is the higher the value you're taking that percentage of, the higher the final amount will be. I think the real problem is tax evasion, not the percentages per se.
 
Depends on how we’re doing this!
The rich definitely deserve to pay more taxes for sure, it could fund so much and would barely dent their fortune.
Sadly tax bracket systems are often afraid to target the actual rich, the rich get away with things by putting everything in a ‘business’ or lobbying or whatever. Money is power sadly.
So they target the upper middle class instead, high salary people, not rich just a bit higher. Your doctors, lawyers, middle management folks. I don’t think a doctor should pay 50% tax just because he can afford a slightly bigger house and another car (yes that’s how high the tax is where I live).

Good: tax the rich
Bad: putting the upper middle class against the working class. You don’t gain equality by knocking the upper middle down, you just widen the gap between ‘people on a salary’ and the actual rich, the better choice there is to up the minimum wage, as everyone deserves a comfortable middle class lifestyle

tl;dr everyone deserves a middle class lifestyle, raise the minimum wage and place the tax bracket really high so it affects the rich, and not just people who happen to have a higher salary

Wait I’ll put this into easier words
What I don’t like is this:
Sam gets 6 points every month and Tom gets 16,
‘this is unfair‘
so we tax Sam 17% over his 6 points. Then we tax Tom 17% over his first 6 points so he has 5 and 50% over his 10 points so he has another 5. Now Sam has 5 points and Tom has 10 points every month
Yet Alan has 1000 points every month so we ignore him because he lobbied/paid people to shut up and get out of taxes. Or since you were talking about a world in which there is no tax evasion, Alan gets 502 now. Tom is *still* the one who’s hurting most from this. Because losing 6 points is losing a LOT of spending power, and why should he? Over 100 points it becomes like impossible to spend. so it would be way better if the bracket was extremely high, like 100 points
 
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