Do you feel that the school systems are flawed?

[Shellzilla_515]

I know I already posted here, but I forgot to mention how the school system handles poor weather. Even though there's like 15+cm of snow outside, they have the nerve to cancel school buses but keep the schools open. Some people rely on the service and they have to trudge through poor conditions when this happens. This just happened this morning and it left me outraged. From what I see, they have no concern not only for the student's safety but the teachers and parents as well.

 

[John Wick]

Yes.

Math should be abolished.

 

[Soot Sprite]

As a fairly new teacher, I can definitely say that the school system where I live is flawed. There is not enough funding for in-class support. More and more students have special needs these days, and it's impossible to meet these needs when funding is being cut. I have been physically and verbally abused by my students, and these kids were only 6 years old! More special needs assistants need to be hired in order to help all students succeed.

As someone who's studying to be a teacher and specifically work with young disabled kids, I could talk about this all day! I really think most schools fail their special needs children. You can either have them all learn in a special needs specific classroom or have them integrated into the "regular" classes with a special aide to help them learn, but either way, it doesn't really work for the benefit of the student.

If they're all in a classroom together, yes they're socializing, but if you've ever been in a room with several young children with different and varying disabilities it's not as if it's that much socialization happens, especially when the aides are trying to teach and control the children as best as they can - then when they graduate high school and they're expected to either enter the workforce, go to college, or do nothing with the rest of their lives, but they've been given no kind of advantage for the first two because they've mostly interacted with other disabled people in school so they don't have a grasp of the social norms or expectations we typically have by the time we graduate high school.

If they get put in the classroom with the other children, in most cases at best they will be seen as a distraction to the other kids. Taking the time to actually teach a child with severe autism can be challenging, and a lot of teachers don't want to or just don't have the time to teach an individual child along with the rest of the class. On the other hand, I think in this case it teaches the other children a kind of tolerance for the disabled, and it won't be seen as such an offputting thing for a child if one of their classmates they see every day has CP. Overall special needs kids just don't have that many great options for public schools, and after working with several disabled extensively it's hard work, and the pay honestly doesn't justify it unless you're really passionate about it. I've been scratched in the face and had things thrown at me, and every day when I was doing my student teaching I would have to remind myself on the way home that they couldn't help themselves, and I couldn't do the job I wanted if I couldn't handle what may come my way.

I think the school systems in many places have failed for a variety of reasons, but I didn't realize how poorly the special needs children ae treated until it became my job to take care of them.

 

[Dim]

They are losing their minds tbh

 

[xSuperMario64x]

I would say that they are, because they require all students to go through "general education" and this may not fit everyone's learning needs. Ideally the school system should be able to accommodate all students in their own learning styles.

 

[Kaiaa]

Some of you may remember I was once a teacher and I can say yes the American school system is flawed. While I adored my job and working with students, I always hated the one size fits all system the schools liked to use. Not everyone learns the same way and because of that, many students slipped. It?s not because they were not smart, it?s because we were not taking the time to teach them in a way that was easier for them to understand. Besides that, I felt a lot of the material was not useful to learn. We need to teach more life skills and job skills!

 

[pawprints]

I would say yes. Now, I’m 25 and haven’t been in a school since 2011, but they catered to the state testing when I was in school. Through my four years of high school, I frankly don’t think I learned a thing. It might be different in other parts of the US, but the California school system is awful.

Also common core math??? Someone needs to explain that to me because I have no idea how any of that works. I’m glad I don’t have kids because I would lose my mind if I tried to figure it out.

 

[SaminalCrossing]

I think it's pretty flawed. I skipped a grade in elementary school as a result of getting more than a few perfect scores on standardized tests. Middle school was an absolute breeze for me, and I finished middle school at the top of my class. I don't consider myself to be especially smart, but I think I'm a little bit above average. My academic performance pretty much tanked in high school, though.

To keep it as brief as I can, no teachers ever taught me what good study habits were. Yes, I was smart, but I had been placed on a pedestal in previous grades such that I assumed I could do well in honors and AP classes by doing the same things I had always done: pay attention in class, not worry about homework, and do well on the tests. When classes became difficult for me to maintain A's in, I really didn't know why. Teachers never really explained WHY homework was important, or HOW to study and manage time. It's simple to me now that I'm in college, but when I was 13 and just entering high school, that sort of thing just wasn't obvious to me. I feel cheated out of a proper education, because material was generally assigned for points/grades and rarely to help students better understand course material. To add on to a few other people in the thread, high school never really taught me about things that would be applicable to real-world settings.

If you want to go onto college, but aren't sure of what you want to do, I reaaaaaally recommend community college. Being rejected to all the schools I applied to was probably one of the best things that happened to me, because I would have never considered it otherwise. High schools generally don't push students towards the CC route, because university acceptance looks better for them. It's much better to figure yourself out at CC, learn good study habits, take your time, live at home, and reduce costs (and sometimes get a free year of tuition!) than to blindly attend a university for the sake of attending one and wind up with a bunch of student loans and a useless degree.

TL;DR K-12 American public school sucks, but I think public universities are pretty good.

 

[Alienfish]

Some of you may remember I was once a teacher and I can say yes the American school system is flawed. While I adored my job and working with students, I always hated the one size fits all system the schools liked to use. Not everyone learns the same way and because of that, many students slipped. It’s not because they were not smart, it’s because we were not taking the time to teach them in a way that was easier for them to understand. Besides that, I felt a lot of the material was not useful to learn. We need to teach more life skills and job skills!

Yes, I remember and I agree with basically the whole of your post. Especially that they teach us stuff if you want to be a civil engineer but not how to apply for loans, pay a bill etc. Not all parents can or will teach kids that. I'll say the Swedish one is as well, partly due to the one size-mold as well as having very vague criteria for each grade step... and a lot of time the teacher don't go through that so you have to guess what they mean, which not everyone can decode.

 

[Kaiaa]

I would say yes. Now, I’m 25 and haven’t been in a school since 2011, but they catered to the state testing when I was in school. Through my four years of high school, I frankly don’t think I learned a thing. It might be different in other parts of the US, but the California school system is awful.

Also common core math??? Someone needs to explain that to me because I have no idea how any of that works. I’m glad I don’t have kids because I would lose my mind if I tried to figure it out.

I used to have to teach common core and it’s honestly not as bad as most people think haha the only unfortunate thing about it, is that it is a different way of looking at math than what we were taught as kids. It’s a long winded process... For instance, 1st graders would learn 48+32=?
They would separate the 10s places and the ones places to get two problems 40+30 and 8+2 and then solve for them. 40+30=70 and 8+2=10. Then they would add their answers to get 80. That was one way of doing it. It got you to the same answer but it was intended to make it easier on kids. It was confusing for me to learn common core but the kids got it so easily because it’s easier to think in 2s 5s and 10s!

 

[Alienfish]

I used to have to teach common core and it’s honestly not as bad as most people think haha the only unfortunate thing about it, is that it is a different way of looking at math than what we were taught as kids. It’s a long winded process... For instance, 1st graders would learn 48+32=?
They would separate the 10s places and the ones places to get two problems 40+30 and 8+2 and then solve for them. 40+30=70 and 8+2=10. Then they would add their answers to get 80. That was one way of doing it. It got you to the same answer but it was intended to make it easier on kids. It was confusing for me to learn common core but the kids got it so easily because it’s easier to think in 2s 5s and 10s!

Oh yeah we had to do that too, kinda disliked it because my Aspie brain can decode the answer but not how to solve it which goes for basically everything, although I didn't have my diagnosis by then.
--

Also I think the high school system is pretty flawed here, you don't really need more advanced maths if you don't plan on applying for science-ish stuff at uni and you can always read that up later, so yeah. They sure do weird requirements for some programmes and courses there

 

[KazooSquirrel]

Yes, I do. It's why I ended up pulling my children from public school and now home school them instead.

 

[SaminalCrossing]

Yes, I do. It's why I ended up pulling my children from public school and now home school them instead.

What do you plan on doing in the event that your kids have course material you don't know that much about (i.e. AP class material)? Will you have them do work online in that case? I'm just generally uninformed about how all that works lol.

 

[sierra]

Hell yeah. Social conditioning starts there.

 

[KazooSquirrel]

For most things I have no trouble helping them out. Home schooling is so much more prominent now so it's not difficult to find resources.

As for AP classes and the like, that is a simple matter of adjusting their subject material to their level. For example, my kids do not have a standardized "grade" that they belong to. Their books by subject are adjusted to their level of ability so that they can progress with a thorough knowledge of each subject. One of the largest issues (in my opinion) with school house education these days is that education is not one size fits all. My middle child is dyslexic, for example. She would be what is considered "behind" by school standards, but she has to work harder to progress because of her challenges. With more one on one assistance, no fear of ridicule from her peers, and the ability to adjust levels she is catching up to the level that is typical of her age rapidly.

My son is on the spectrum but very high functioning, so it's easy for people to forget that he is. We ended up in a situation where his own teacher was bullying him and because of it, his classmates were doing so as well.

If he became emotional or cried in frustration, she would give him after school detentions.

I'm ranting a bit now, but the point is there are enough resources out there that I have no doubt we can get then through high school without worries. In many ways for a parent of children who are differently abled, it can be more ideal if you are in a position to devote the time to it and accept that it takes a bit of trial and error for parent and child to find an ideal learning style.

 

[fluttershy300]

Yes, as a black student in America there’s not a lot of Black history imo. When it is it’s just about slavery and even that is not covered enough as much as other events about America. USA specifically. When we’re learning about World history, it’s always the same continents, Europe and Asia. Mostly Europe. World War 1 and 2. That’s only the tip of the ice burg of what’s wrong with Education System.

Post automatically merged: Jun 26, 2020

i absolutely think it is flawed. there are far too many points, as it is flawed for both students and teachers alike.

on the student end, students aren't really being taught the essentials nowadays. there's plenty of skills i would've loved to have, that i had to learn outside of school. of course there's the whole debate on bullying as well, and teachers definitely aren't taught correctly on how to handle these situations. i think this should be part of a teacher's job, too, to be prepared for these type of situations.

on the teacher end, they aren't paid enough, have to put up with a LOT, sometimes have to pay out of pocket for supplies, and so on. it's just a difficult job to deal with. teachers are just not recognized enough and it makes me sad. there are some teachers who are INCREDIBLE - those are the ones who are compassionate about what they teach, are empathetic to students, and actually want to do the job... and those are the types of teachers that inspire students to do good.

anyways i could go on and on, but the point is that the school system is VERY flawed... and not just for students.

Teaching is one of the most important jobs on Earth and somewhat teachers aren’t payed enough. Sad.

Post automatically merged: Jun 26, 2020

i absolutely think it is flawed. there are far too many points, as it is flawed for both students and teachers alike.

on the student end, students aren't really being taught the essentials nowadays. there's plenty of skills i would've loved to have, that i had to learn outside of school. of course there's the whole debate on bullying as well, and teachers definitely aren't taught correctly on how to handle these situations. i think this should be part of a teacher's job, too, to be prepared for these type of situations.

on the teacher end, they aren't paid enough, have to put up with a LOT, sometimes have to pay out of pocket for supplies, and so on. it's just a difficult job to deal with. teachers are just not recognized enough and it makes me sad. there are some teachers who are INCREDIBLE - those are the ones who are compassionate about what they teach, are empathetic to students, and actually want to do the job... and those are the types of teachers that inspire students to do good.

anyways i could go on and on, but the point is that the school system is VERY flawed... and not just for students.

Teaching is one of the most important jobs on Earth and somehow teachers aren’t payed enough. Sad.

 

[KrazyKarp]

I'm from the U.S., so that's what this post is based on. Unfortunately I don't know much about education systems elsewhere, but I really should do some reading on them.

As someone who plans to become a college professor: yes, the school system is flawed. The lack of teaching of essential skills; taxes, cooking, things like how to change a tire, should all be taught in a sequence of courses beginning at the very least in the last year of middle school and continue as long as needed, but ending in high school before college. It's far more important than old literature and, even as someone who specifically wants to be teaching math, I have to admit those essential life skills are far more important than math. I mean you should know how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide nonnegative rational numbers without a calculator, though.

There also needs to be less emphasis on being a well-rounded jack-of-all-trades, most especially in college. As a math major, taking courses in world history and English literature are a complete waste of time. Similarly, someone majoring in history or English literature is completely wasting their time taking STEM courses. College is expensive - I want to be spending that money on courses that further my career, not on courses that I don't need or want. My college requires 6 gen ed classes for my major. Without those useless courses, I could graduate early and move onto graduate school sooner, moving closer to the career that will actually be paying the bills. Everyone could, actually! Most majors in my college actually require 9 courses, 3 extra in foreign language (my other 3 are replaced by very useful and practical comp sci courses). I don't envy those who need 9. If people want to take courses outside their intended career path, or are still undecided, then that's totally ok! You should still be able to take courses in areas of interest. I'm getting a CS minor, so I'm certainly doing that; though CS and math are closely related. But don't force gen eds onto people. It's useless.
I will say that everyone needs to know how to write. That's very important. No, not English literature, that can be in other courses not required for all majors. Writing and research. Technical writing. Styles besides MLA. That's the stuff you gotta know.

The credit system. What's considered full-time should not be based on credits, it should be based on course difficulty. I know different people can find different courses difficult, but there comes a point where everyone can reach an agreement. Four 3-credit, 100-level courses won't be as difficult as four 3-credit, 400-level courses, no matter what major you're in. They shouldn't be seen as the same load. They aren't. You need to spend more time studying with the latter load than former. Contrary to the commonly held belief, credit load does not ever, ever equal how much time you need to put into a class. What is it, 3 hours out of class a week for studying per credit? Yeah, right. As if a pre-calculus course and a real analysis course are in any way, shape, or form comparable in how difficult they are by credit load.

Teachers are an issue of two points. For one, they certainly aren't payed enough. Especially when I think about elementary ed teachers, wow what an amazing and patient person you have to be to deal with all those small children! It takes some real skill to do that. All teachers, really, they need some fantastic skills. Not only do they need to have completely mastered the course material, but they need to be able to communicate it to others. They need to have top-notch interpersonal skills - I'm still working on that one the most. Teaching should really be a high-paying job.

The other point? There's a lot of teachers out there who shouldn't be teaching. It's not what they're strong at. This is also an opinion thing - one person may think a teacher is the best, and another person may think they're the worst. But there's certainly teachers that seem pretty darn unanimous in how students feel about them. Good STEM teachers, particularly math, can be very difficult to come by.

I never went to public school, so I don't feel I have a good handle on what to say about that. Honestly it doesn't feel like it's my place to be saying anything on the topic since I never experienced it. I can only say, based off of anecdotes I've heard, that there needs to be serious changes in them.

Apologies for any typos, weird sounding sentences, etc. I'm very tired, but also can't sleep? I don't get it, humans are weird.

 

[Kuroh]

The way that school is structured currently makes it just busywork and a waste of time. I don't think that the "system" wants its citizens to be educated and well-informed, so they teach everyone useless information that doesn't help them in life and also discourages them from learning.

 

[mayortiffany]

I don't believe that schools should be teaching students 'essential life skills' on a mandatory basis - that should be the place of the parent. And yes, there are unfortunately some circumstances in which parents are not able to teach their children these skills, but the great news is that with the skills we learn from school, we should be able to pick up these life skills in the future. If you know basic math and have decent reading comprehension, you should be able to complete your taxes - or to know that you can always outsource the work to a tax software or agency. With problem-solving skills, you should be able to know how to figure out the solution to something you don't know how to do, or at least figure out the steps that you need to take to make that thing happen. It's much easier to teach yourself how to cook or to do your taxes than to teach yourself good writing skills or basic math principles. It doesn't mean that schools can't have a class like this on an elective basis, I just don't think that it needs to be learnt by everyone.

As someone who always wanted to further my education into post-secondary, adding in 'essential life skills' as a course (or several) would have actually harmed my future educational pursuits because it would have been even harder for me to get all the courses I needed for a competitive university application, and to adequately prepare myself to enter post-secondary.

Perhaps controversially, I also believe that some schools who are giving their students too many accommodations or wanting to put less pressure on kids have good intentions, but ultimately end up hurting their students in the future. I'm primarily talking about high school students when I say this. The unfortunate truth of our world is that you will need to learn to live in, and to adapt to, the world around you; the world won't mould itself to suit you. You need to learn how to advocate for yourself, how to do things you may be uncomfortable with, and how to perform under pressure. I feel that these soft skills are essential.

For example, my old high school recently reduced the amount of testing that each student was expected to do to graduate, getting rid of many of the end of year final exams in favour of 'cumulative tests'. While this is, in principle, the same thing as an exam, the reasoning given by the school was that it was too stressful for a student to go through a final exam whereas cumulative tests gave students many opportunities to learn the material. Even if it is stressful, a high school student absolutely needs to have experience performing under exam conditions, because whether they go to university or not, a student needs to learn to work under pressure and under stress. There are ways to make that experience less painful - for example, helping younger high-schoolers learn how to study by working with them on the creation of study guides, or making exams worth only about 10-30% of a final grade so that they matter, but not too much.

Even when I was a student, one of the main complaints from alumni was that they were not prepared to enter post-secondary because we were unused to having to study for so many big exams or final assessments, especially those that were worth 50 - 100% of our grade, nor were we prepared for mid-term exams because those simply did not exist. The good thing about cumulative tests is that they can simulate a mid-term experience, but they won't be able to simulate an examination experience (with all the pomp and circumstance required), nor the pressure of only having one opportunity to perform.