Ace Marvel
Merry & Happy
For me is that I don't see glow/guava w/w so we might be into something there, but you are right is too early.
Mafia [GAME THREAD] Karen Mafia (Endgame - Mafia Wins)
- Thread starter Geoni
- Start date
For me is that I don't see glow/guava w/w so we might be into something there, but you are right is too early.
i'm actually on board with this. it's been less than 12 hours since start of day and you're hopping on a wagon asap w/o any thoughts added, just blindly following glow
Antonio
✦ Any Pronouns ✦
That is irrelevant to what you quoted. Why are you considering something that hasn't been laid out for us discuss instead of going off what you believe.
this is so reachy!!!! i’m chaotic not scummy come on.
this is literally right after you went after glow for having a “lack of information about the gamestate”, which holds true for the dedenne accusation
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lol i am actually serious about forgetting to vote
Antonio
✦ Any Pronouns ✦
chaotic isn't helpful, be helpful
You forgetting to vote implies you are OK with Evan being your vote (if you forget) based off of nothing instead of actually voting for someone that you believe is scum.
I do not see how anything coming from you is acting upon a town perspective of this game.
i am serious about evan being my vote tho, i was for voting him early on as well.
to me, a case is more compiled and thorough, so while yes i wouldn't say ive made a case i would still say ive given reasons for my evan vote
summarized:
1.)
he had/has a strong agenda, by that i mean he named three people for a scumteam without reading the game in full (in contrast to others who've been around since game start, and struggle to out a handful of scumreads and especially have struggled to name "compatible" team reads of 3)
2.)
he said i was highly compatible with kat, i guess cos i townread her early on or something? but failed to define why specifically, which just felt opportunistic as multiple people had casted doubts on me or kat (you/endless/aerious/epona/etc)
3.)
only gave kat benefit of the doubt in the last five mins?
maybe because i mentioned that nobody was defending her? maybe he wanted to look indecisive? fmpov it just lacked sincerity, especially since the reason he gave was that she wasn't around to defend herself but.... she wasn't there at all during d2, why would it only matter to him at the end?
his vote timing is relevant here so yeah that needs to be looked into
//
i think guava has really good tone and reminds me of last game
i also think guava is an easy push on this player list because she's pretty meme-y, neutral toward pressure, and hasn't made any definitive assertions
Antonio
✦ Any Pronouns ✦
That was day 1 when they had no activity.
Ace Marvel
Merry & Happy
Why are you defending that slot so much? I already said why I believe that, and also said it was just an option, I won't vote yet.
Antonio
✦ Any Pronouns ✦
There wasn't much of a case towards Evan till Glows post. I'm not defending anything, I want to hear reasons instead of just opinions.
So, don't change the subject. Why did you consider a wagon that wasn't explained throughly explained?
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Actually, I agree with this if true so I'm going to look back at Evans post and see if these hold up. I'm currently busy with classes so I'm going to finish that for now.
Thank you for the explanation, btw.
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I also haven't seen your reasons on the matter of Evan, regardless of case.
Ace Marvel
Merry & Happy
Because same can be said of every wagon made this game, and because I play with scenarios/worlds and I don't see glow/guava as scum together, I don't want to vote guava off, out of Tensu and Evan, I rather keep Tensu, and finally I don't see an Endless wagon happening right now. So yeah from the options right now which is Evan I don't see it as just a crazy idea. But you sus glow, so I understand why you can't see it.
i guess i'm also hesitant on endless as well so that factors in my guava placement, especially because i think their interactions are very interesting -- even if one is mafia i don't think the other is. so it's either TvT or TvM, their interactions are so weird lmao. they are just never partners
he listed her in top townreads, she scumread him and voted him all phase, then he tries to lead a CFD onto her last minute and pleads to everyone to evaluate her?
> "ur desperate, nice omgus"
>"this isn't omgus, your vote on me was an irrelevant coincidence" i lol'd
anyway endless usually does a pretty good job in explaining his reads but i don't connect how what he's saying links to scum!guava when it's easily attributed to her just feeling like her vote doesn't matter enough and having no real gut feeling/strong read on who mafia was on d1?
he listed her in top townreads, she scumread him and voted him all phase, then he tries to lead a CFD onto her last minute and pleads to everyone to evaluate her?
> "ur desperate, nice omgus"
>"this isn't omgus, your vote on me was an irrelevant coincidence" i lol'd
anyway endless usually does a pretty good job in explaining his reads but i don't connect how what he's saying links to scum!guava when it's easily attributed to her just feeling like her vote doesn't matter enough and having no real gut feeling/strong read on who mafia was on d1?
amazonevan19
DLELELEWOOOOP
I am not liking their constant glow sheeping and while I tend to be memey/chaotic at times, they tend to do so in a very disruptive and unhelpful way. Plus evasive answers to questions
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Glow is still on me for having strong opinions when I came in to the thread with a new pair of eyes and wasn’t slogging through a bunch of irrelevant stuff. Ok lol. If you’re going to pin kat’a death on me I’m going to pin dedenne’s death right back to you. Your standard ain’t so good when applied to yourself now is it?
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Notice what I’m not doing. I’m not trying to claim regret on Kat based on what I said 5 mins before EoD. If I really believed Kat was town I’d have switched but I didn’t because I felt she was scum and was willing to hear consequences for it if she wasn’t
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*face consequences
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u misunderstand if u think my "if kat = mafia, evan = town" claim was reversible, i was on the verge of saying it d2 that if kat was town it means nothing about your alignment
it's more your behavior
and yes i do think you aren't excused from reading (or at least trying to/making an attempt to) because i don't think this thread was overrun with posts and it's not like ur a replacement.... u signed up to play from the beginning u just happened to forget
and even radical says she's going to read the game so i don't rly think it was some wildly unreasonable thing to ask / expect and it's not like anyone wanted you to sit there and deeply analyse every post
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i mean fair enough for you to say that you lynched her with the idea that she would flip mafia, but like how do you think that makes you look townier
it would be worse now to say you regret it and you feel you should have wavered earlier because it would just admit that your confidence you initially expressed was fake?
you don't need to defend or rescind your vote, you can explain what exactly made her end of day behavior so bad or explain your current thoughts on the game. i think those two things would be better
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@glow did u ever explain this? by this point in the game ronishy hadn't really contributed anything besides a sus on ace and slight susses on endless.
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remember to stretch kids
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yeah see idk let's go evan
also idk how this is enough evidence to go after evan
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EBWOP i meant to write "how this isn't enough"***********
First of all, @Aerious I am active, at my computer, touching my mouse, at points when I am doing things that are not "free time".
I am sure this qualifies for Kat as well. That being said, this is a pointless discussion because literally no one is saying you don't believe what you're saying, we just think it's erroneous/wrong.
As a premise to my reads list, I feel it's pertinent to mention that while making this post I ISO'd every single living player that isn't me, so if you feel like there's something I missed, absolutely point it out and pressure me to answer it.
Reads list:
glow:
Aerious:
MyLifeIsCake:
epona:
Ace Marvel:
radical6(mogyay):
Tensu:
Antonio:
Amazonevan19:
guav@:
And with that, I'm voting guav@, taking some well needed rest, and sighing with relief that that 3.5 hour post is finally completed.
I tried to make it as easy to read as possible, so if it's still too text-wally, I apologise.
I am sure this qualifies for Kat as well. That being said, this is a pointless discussion because literally no one is saying you don't believe what you're saying, we just think it's erroneous/wrong.
As a premise to my reads list, I feel it's pertinent to mention that while making this post I ISO'd every single living player that isn't me, so if you feel like there's something I missed, absolutely point it out and pressure me to answer it.
Reads list:
█ = town
█ = null
█ = weak scumread
█ = scumread
█ = null
█ = weak scumread
█ = scumread
glow:
I'm going to keep this relic from when I had glow listed as yellow on this list:
Glow asserted that dedenne's tone was off day 1, and lead a lynch on them. After grilling her day 2, I've come to the conclusion that this wasn't an unreasonable push, and while I disagreed with her reasoning, I can understand it.
Day 2 glow was mainly pushing evan/me with a sprinkle of "Kat is a fine lynch".
These pushes were "damning" for my previous read, but now that her evan read makes some amount of sense I don't really care as much.
As far as I can tell her read on me being mafia is because I "pushed on her to see if it would gain traction" - fairly sure I fully explained myself as for my reasoning on the push, which you then admitted were actual reasons. (Failure to understand motivation behind your actions.)
Which seems kinda weak to me. Of course, if that's not your actual reasons, please elaborate.
So up to this point, this reads absolutely like a null read, but the key thing I noticed was that glow just absolutely doesn't fit in a team with literally any of my scumreads. Guav@ is "buddying" (best I can describe it) too much to be in a team with glow, Antonio tunneled glow for an entire day phase, glow is now leading a lynch on evan which she pretty much constructed entirely herself, he didn't have any suspicion on him prior, so that's also off the cards.
So unless my reads are all wrong, which I find overwhelmingly unlikely, it would be difficult for glow to be mafia.
Notes: Not w/w with any of guav@/Antonio/Evan
Even though it's past tense, I wrote it just before I went to ISO/fill out my read on evan, so I'm going to leave it here just because of how vindictive my tone is before I did an essential 180 on her - it amuses me, and it being here should hopefully make my reads more transparent.
Glow asserted that dedenne's tone was off day 1, and lead a lynch on them. After grilling her day 2, I've come to the conclusion that this wasn't an unreasonable push, and while I disagreed with her reasoning, I can understand it.
Day 2 glow was mainly pushing evan/me with a sprinkle of "Kat is a fine lynch".
These pushes were "damning" for my previous read, but now that her evan read makes some amount of sense I don't really care as much.
As far as I can tell her read on me being mafia is because I "pushed on her to see if it would gain traction" - fairly sure I fully explained myself as for my reasoning on the push, which you then admitted were actual reasons. (Failure to understand motivation behind your actions.)
Which seems kinda weak to me. Of course, if that's not your actual reasons, please elaborate.
So up to this point, this reads absolutely like a null read, but the key thing I noticed was that glow just absolutely doesn't fit in a team with literally any of my scumreads. Guav@ is "buddying" (best I can describe it) too much to be in a team with glow, Antonio tunneled glow for an entire day phase, glow is now leading a lynch on evan which she pretty much constructed entirely herself, he didn't have any suspicion on him prior, so that's also off the cards.
So unless my reads are all wrong, which I find overwhelmingly unlikely, it would be difficult for glow to be mafia.
Notes: Not w/w with any of guav@/Antonio/Evan
Despite being the essential leader of the lynch on Kat (town) yesterday, I don't think she did so with poor reasoning.
In addition, I can see where she's coming from in most of her posts - even though I wildly disagree with a lot of them.
Right now we're experiencing panic!Aerious, which feels just super genuine.
It is also important to note that while leading a lynch on Kat, she still poked around elsewhere.
Notes: Day 1 scruff w Antonio
In addition, I can see where she's coming from in most of her posts - even though I wildly disagree with a lot of them.
Right now we're experiencing panic!Aerious, which feels just super genuine.
It is also important to note that while leading a lynch on Kat, she still poked around elsewhere.
Notes: Day 1 scruff w Antonio
First really relevant post of theirs in the thread.
Post can be summerised to say "Sorry for not being at EoD, if I was I would've switched to Antonio." and a call out for guav@'s behaviour at the end.
Second reads post
Justifies why they would've switched to Antonio, says epona had "red flags" for defending antonio, and elaborates more on their opinions of guav@/glow.
Third reads post
Follows up on her opinion on glow in the last reads post to say she scumreads her based primarily on meta, still scumreads Antonio, then makes the absolutely critical mistake of putting them together in a team. Which I think is the only portion of any of Cake's content that I dislike?
Like most of the content here, I can track most of the reads so I'll slot cake into a weak townread.
Post can be summerised to say "Sorry for not being at EoD, if I was I would've switched to Antonio." and a call out for guav@'s behaviour at the end.
Second reads post
Justifies why they would've switched to Antonio, says epona had "red flags" for defending antonio, and elaborates more on their opinions of guav@/glow.
Third reads post
Follows up on her opinion on glow in the last reads post to say she scumreads her based primarily on meta, still scumreads Antonio, then makes the absolutely critical mistake of putting them together in a team. Which I think is the only portion of any of Cake's content that I dislike?
Like most of the content here, I can track most of the reads so I'll slot cake into a weak townread.
A whole slew of epona's content is extremely stream-of-thought and I can understand a lot of it.
I've had multiple issues with epona but all of them have been resolved amicably. (I.e. her read on me in her reads list [which was just flat out wrong, but I understand the reason for her misinterpretation], or her defense of Antonio D2, which I pushed her for and found out I'd misinterpreted her entirely and was absolutely in the wrong.)
Overall, epona's content just feels super genuine for me, and I can see the reasoning behind pretty much all of her actions, even the ones I don't necessarily agree with.
Notes: Led CFD off Antonio D1
I've had multiple issues with epona but all of them have been resolved amicably. (I.e. her read on me in her reads list [which was just flat out wrong, but I understand the reason for her misinterpretation], or her defense of Antonio D2, which I pushed her for and found out I'd misinterpreted her entirely and was absolutely in the wrong.)
Overall, epona's content just feels super genuine for me, and I can see the reasoning behind pretty much all of her actions, even the ones I don't necessarily agree with.
Notes: Led CFD off Antonio D1
Disliked his day 1 content, more specifically his reactions while under pressure for his not serious reads list.
That being said, really liked this post he made near the end of the last day. Like I think the reasoning is awful, but reading into possible events after Kat flips mafia seems quite genuine to me. (As mafia are more likely to accidentally view events with the perspective "Kat flips town".)
I had a chuckle that he mentions I'm "controlling the narrative" when mostly I have extremely unpopular reads and haven't had a single of the people I've tried to lynch lynched.
Notes: Defends glow (#1 #2 #3 #4), first vote on dedenne day 1 based on glow's read.
That being said, really liked this post he made near the end of the last day. Like I think the reasoning is awful, but reading into possible events after Kat flips mafia seems quite genuine to me. (As mafia are more likely to accidentally view events with the perspective "Kat flips town".)
I had a chuckle that he mentions I'm "controlling the narrative" when mostly I have extremely unpopular reads and haven't had a single of the people I've tried to lynch lynched.
Notes: Defends glow (#1 #2 #3 #4), first vote on dedenne day 1 based on glow's read.
Why did you click this? There's no content to read from this seat.
Copped a lot of heat for having similar opinions to mine esp late day 1/early day 2.
But I think he's shown plenty of unique content such as his pressure on Ronishy -> townread on Ronishy. (Complete with small defense of Ronishy when she was on the chopping block d1.)
Don't have any strong opinions on his alignment though.
Notes: Antonio/Tensu is v/w or v/v, impossible to be w/w. (Only relevant if one flips wolf.)
But I think he's shown plenty of unique content such as his pressure on Ronishy -> townread on Ronishy. (Complete with small defense of Ronishy when she was on the chopping block d1.)
Don't have any strong opinions on his alignment though.
Notes: Antonio/Tensu is v/w or v/v, impossible to be w/w. (Only relevant if one flips wolf.)
Day 1 proposed an rng lynch, got shot down, claimed it was a joke - then later proposed an rng lynch seriously.
Day 2, spent the entire day pushing glow then ultimately took his pedal off the gas. So I'd written half a paragraph on why this made him mafia before I recalled that a) I also spent most of day 2 pushing glow before eventually stopping b) him stopping because of incorrect logic (glow's reasoning on Kat was false as those were 2 different instances of rng votes Kat was reading into, see above in this read) but the read that glow was demonstrating was Kat's read on Antonio, and while the logic was poor I can see why Antonio wouldn't mind someone saying a scumread someone made on Antonio didn't make sense. So honestly I'm not going to fault his day 2 at all, still hate his d1 though, but that's becoming less and less relevant as the game progresses.
Notes: Not w/w with both glow or Tensu. I.e. if either of those flip mafia I'm townlocking him. (Or if he flips mafia I'm townlocking both of them.)
Day 2, spent the entire day pushing glow then ultimately took his pedal off the gas. So I'd written half a paragraph on why this made him mafia before I recalled that a) I also spent most of day 2 pushing glow before eventually stopping b) him stopping because of incorrect logic (glow's reasoning on Kat was false as those were 2 different instances of rng votes Kat was reading into, see above in this read) but the read that glow was demonstrating was Kat's read on Antonio, and while the logic was poor I can see why Antonio wouldn't mind someone saying a scumread someone made on Antonio didn't make sense. So honestly I'm not going to fault his day 2 at all, still hate his d1 though, but that's becoming less and less relevant as the game progresses.
Notes: Not w/w with both glow or Tensu. I.e. if either of those flip mafia I'm townlocking him. (Or if he flips mafia I'm townlocking both of them.)
NGL was expecting this to be just a null read before the ISO.
First pressure applied was toward Tensu, in his fourth post.
His reason for scumreading glow is... literally because she led a lynch on town - I probably just assumed he was talking about the motives behind the lynch like I was, but when he responds to my reads list later he specifies that "we scumread glow for different reasons". So huh, I guess not. (Later retracts this read in a recent post, claiming his read was "impressions based on meta and d1 activity".)
Agrees with reasoning on the Kat wagon - I don't fault this.
Near EoD pops out of the woodworks and says he isn't comfortable lynching someone who hasn't had a chance to respond - I don't think this is even vaguely suspicious. You can't know someone isn't going to respond until the very last moments. Like I generally assumed Kat would respond, and it was when there was 15 or so minutes left that I started to believe that maybe Kat was just going to vanish without a chance to talk back.
States he's going to look into players he's been ignoring (such as Antonio) - very interested to see his next post.
Notes: Tensu scumread vanished ????, not w/w with glow
First pressure applied was toward Tensu, in his fourth post.
His reason for scumreading glow is... literally because she led a lynch on town - I probably just assumed he was talking about the motives behind the lynch like I was, but when he responds to my reads list later he specifies that "we scumread glow for different reasons". So huh, I guess not. (Later retracts this read in a recent post, claiming his read was "impressions based on meta and d1 activity".)
Agrees with reasoning on the Kat wagon - I don't fault this.
Near EoD pops out of the woodworks and says he isn't comfortable lynching someone who hasn't had a chance to respond - I don't think this is even vaguely suspicious. You can't know someone isn't going to respond until the very last moments. Like I generally assumed Kat would respond, and it was when there was 15 or so minutes left that I started to believe that maybe Kat was just going to vanish without a chance to talk back.
States he's going to look into players he's been ignoring (such as Antonio) - very interested to see his next post.
Notes: Tensu scumread vanished ????, not w/w with glow
So to touch on my initial push on her, she stated that she was willing to vote dedenne, disliked the Antonio lynch, then refused to vote dedenne to save Antonio.
I have 2 things to address here:
a) She said she didn't like random lynches. Who cares? Wouldn't she want to random lynch someone over a wagon she didn't like? On the person she said she would lynch if she did random lynch? Moreover, the post where she didn't like random lynches was a justification when she refused to vote dedenne, earlier in thread she seemed (perhaps jokingly) disappointed in a lack of an RNG vote, which sends the opposite message.
b) But Endless, Dedenne flipped town - There's absolutely something to be said about not wanting to be on either the main or the secondary lynch as mafia.
Ftr her behaviour day 1 absolutely means she wouldn't be on a team with Antonio, which means not all my scumreads are correct, but that's a bridge I'll cross later.
Now we're past something you'll all probably disagree with me on, even though I'm drilling it to death, let's move on to epon@'s (lack of functional) reads:
First reads
Basically epona = mafia. (She has reasoning in the next post.) Endless = mafia for.. not being night killed. I mean, I can't refute the latter. It's lazy, LHF, and terrible in multiple ways, but I can't refute it.
Second reads post
She supplied her reasoning on epona "as the back and forth re: strong players", which epona proceeded to rip to shreds moments later. (This is going to become a theme.)
Third reads post
She claims my reads don't make sense, mentioning my town reads on her and epona (is she implying I can't townread someone and someone that person scumreads?) and my... scumread on Antonio. Who I literally lead a lynch on.
Needless to say I rip this post to shreds as well.
Fourth reads post
She claims my vote on her was "desperate". I rip this to shreds shortly after.
She also (I don't know if jokingly) suggests a wagon on Aerious? Maybe she thought she could get traction on Aerious because they just mled town. (pertinent post to this thought, sort of justifies "Aerious wagon let's go!", but can't be bothered reading too much into this.)
Fifth reads post
This one is pretty important - agrees with glow on some points and lists evan as null
1 hour later: "I'm for an evan vote I think". Like am I crazy? Is this not completely unreasonable?(vote is serious as well ftr)
So in summery, literally every read they've had sans "Lol why is endless not dead he must be mafia" has been torn to shreds, and they voted someone they claimed was null an hour after the fact, with no justification except "glow said to".
Notes:https://www.belltreeforums.com/thre...6656/page-35#post-9511283]Weird buddy of glow, so not w/w with glow. Also not w/w with Antonio based on D1 events.
I have 2 things to address here:
a) She said she didn't like random lynches. Who cares? Wouldn't she want to random lynch someone over a wagon she didn't like? On the person she said she would lynch if she did random lynch? Moreover, the post where she didn't like random lynches was a justification when she refused to vote dedenne, earlier in thread she seemed (perhaps jokingly) disappointed in a lack of an RNG vote, which sends the opposite message.
b) But Endless, Dedenne flipped town - There's absolutely something to be said about not wanting to be on either the main or the secondary lynch as mafia.
Ftr her behaviour day 1 absolutely means she wouldn't be on a team with Antonio, which means not all my scumreads are correct, but that's a bridge I'll cross later.
Now we're past something you'll all probably disagree with me on, even though I'm drilling it to death, let's move on to epon@'s (lack of functional) reads:
First reads
Basically epona = mafia. (She has reasoning in the next post.) Endless = mafia for.. not being night killed. I mean, I can't refute the latter. It's lazy, LHF, and terrible in multiple ways, but I can't refute it.
Second reads post
She supplied her reasoning on epona "as the back and forth re: strong players", which epona proceeded to rip to shreds moments later. (This is going to become a theme.)
Third reads post
She claims my reads don't make sense, mentioning my town reads on her and epona (is she implying I can't townread someone and someone that person scumreads?) and my... scumread on Antonio. Who I literally lead a lynch on.
Needless to say I rip this post to shreds as well.
Fourth reads post
She claims my vote on her was "desperate". I rip this to shreds shortly after.
She also (I don't know if jokingly) suggests a wagon on Aerious? Maybe she thought she could get traction on Aerious because they just mled town. (pertinent post to this thought, sort of justifies "Aerious wagon let's go!", but can't be bothered reading too much into this.)
Fifth reads post
This one is pretty important - agrees with glow on some points and lists evan as null
1 hour later: "I'm for an evan vote I think". Like am I crazy? Is this not completely unreasonable?(vote is serious as well ftr)
So in summery, literally every read they've had sans "Lol why is endless not dead he must be mafia" has been torn to shreds, and they voted someone they claimed was null an hour after the fact, with no justification except "glow said to".
Notes:https://www.belltreeforums.com/thre...6656/page-35#post-9511283]Weird buddy of glow, so not w/w with glow. Also not w/w with Antonio based on D1 events.
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And with that, I'm voting guav@, taking some well needed rest, and sighing with relief that that 3.5 hour post is finally completed.
I tried to make it as easy to read as possible, so if it's still too text-wally, I apologise.
this typo made me laugh
look guava it's our child
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need some time to process that post because it is Long but like wow, that is a very high effort and well fleshed out post so kudos
i'm against conflating high effort with towniness but that reads post just feels town-motivated to me. especially the fact that you took what i said about not really being able to read your posts properly into account and tried to change them up to make them easier to understand. it just feels pro-town to me
but fwiw the 'welcome to the aerious wagon' that guava posted is a meme that's been on the go for a few games now so i don't know how serious she was about that
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i want to believe in a world where i can fully trust glow, endless, aerious and i are all fighting for the same side here but it just feels a bit too good to be true lol
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