Mafia [GAME THREAD] Karen Mafia (Endgame - Mafia Wins)

>Does something scummy (and acknowledges it)
>Someone scum reads you for it
>Implies it was bait, doesn't lead to anywhere so what was the point of the bait?

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im too tired to be dealing with yall fr tho

So, I have some questions...
1) What was the point of the bait, anyways? What kind of result were you hoping to get from it? Why bait someone if you weren't attending solid results?
2) Why would you do something you admit as scummy and assume it was scapegoating when someone calls you out?
3) Why bait Endless only?

Finally, you are implying that if Endless is town, his reads are wrong. How in the world do you know if his reads are wrong or not? Only mafia knows what is right and wrong.

I'm assuming you are mafia and the rest of your team suggested to excuse your scummy behavior as attempting to bait someone? That's my theory.
this is trying so hard to make me out to be mafia and realistically it doesn’t take this much effort to make me out to seem mafia rn.

i said that bc endless took the bait and started pushing on me that it makes me question if he’s scum. scum wouldn’t take such a cheap set up because when i flip town you’ll have a huge reason to sus endless. i don’t imagine scum endless doing that unless they’re the voice of reason for maf and are putting on such a show for maf to hide in? i mean he really cites everything.
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additionally, if he is town which i think is likely, it means he’s been wrong this whole time and maf is using it to their advantage is all.
 
this is trying so hard to make me out to be mafia and realistically it doesn’t take this much effort to make me out to seem mafia rn.

i said that bc endless took the bait and started pushing on me that it makes me question if he’s scum. scum wouldn’t take such a cheap set up because when i flip town you’ll have a huge reason to sus endless. i don’t imagine scum endless doing that unless they’re the voice of reason for maf and are putting on such a show for maf to hide in? i mean he really cites everything.
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additionally, if he is town which i think is likely, it means he’s been wrong this whole time and maf is using it to their advantage is all.
"trying to hard"...lol. I believe my concerns are valid, btw. I d

So first, you baited Endless to decide if he is scum or not. He took the bait and went with it. You believe someone who is scum wouldn't take the bait because if you are voted off, people would assume Endless is scum. You wouldn't believe Endless scum would do that unless he is the mafia talking head and mafia is hiding under his reads (which I don't understand how being the talking head matters in this part, please clarify). Plus, if he is Town then his reads are wrong and mafia are using that to their advantage.

Am I getting this right? I want to make sure I'm understanding you right before I continue.
 
"trying to hard"...lol. I believe my concerns are valid, btw. I d

So first, you baited Endless to decide if he is scum or not. He took the bait and went with it. You believe someone who is scum wouldn't take the bait because if you are voted off, people would assume Endless is scum. You wouldn't believe Endless scum would do that unless he is the mafia talking head and mafia is hiding under his reads (which I don't understand how being the talking head matters in this part, please clarify). Plus, if he is Town then his reads are wrong and mafia are using that to their advantage.

Am I getting this right? I want to make sure I'm understanding you right before I continue.
pretty much, also your first post said "How in the world do you know if his reads are wrong or not? Only mafia knows what is right and wrong." i don't, clearly all i have is speculation but i finally contributed something (albeit chaotic and messy x)
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"trying to hard"...lol. I believe my concerns are valid, btw. I d

So first, you baited Endless to decide if he is scum or not. He took the bait and went with it. You believe someone who is scum wouldn't take the bait because if you are voted off, people would assume Endless is scum. You wouldn't believe Endless scum would do that unless he is the mafia talking head and mafia is hiding under his reads (which I don't understand how being the talking head matters in this part, please clarify). Plus, if he is Town then his reads are wrong and mafia are using that to their advantage.

Am I getting this right? I want to make sure I'm understanding you right before I continue.
oh also it's not a plus, i'm providing 3 possibilities here.
 
I'm not getting you angle here Antonio, are you trying to sus someone or just waiting for a reaction? You been back and forth with some players, have you gotten anything?
 
ok im mostly caught up

anyway my thoughts atm:
I don't like how Aerious brought up the discord and mog's posting activity - seems a bit...eh. People have already drilled home the point of why someone may be active on discord but not posting, and she seemed to have let go of her point against Mog posting elsewhere once Mog said she was gonna be replaced, but it still rubs me the wrong way.

Guava seems like a uhh..****poster to me basically. I don't really know what to say. Endless would be right to SR guava if she wasn't a ****poster, but idk to me it feels like she just doesn't care if it doesn't make sense or that her posts aren't logical. Not that I'm saying I TR her either. I need to think more. But through my reading throughout the game shes always had a "lol whatever" vibe to me. It's very hard for me to read these types of players.

Scum kills aren't that surprising to me, they're killing off players who people mostly sort of are impartial about. Volt and Roshiny had some good posts, but theyre nowhere close enough to steering the conversation. I don't think its RNG, it makes sense for kills.

I'll probably re-read the last 5 pages in depth later, but those were my thoughts mostly reading D2/early D3.
 
as the rest of town stares at the mess and starts to wonder if they should board the guava wagon... i ask you to please think of this:

u want her?.jpg


also @rad i'm bringing beauty and brains but my brain has been off due to overheating
 
ok im mostly caught up

anyway my thoughts atm:
I don't like how Aerious brought up the discord and mog's posting activity - seems a bit...eh. People have already drilled home the point of why someone may be active on discord but not posting, and she seemed to have let go of her point against Mog posting elsewhere once Mog said she was gonna be replaced, but it still rubs me the wrong way.
I'll probably re-read the last 5 pages in depth later, but those were my thoughts mostly reading D2/early D3.
u should go back and reread bc i never mentioned mog and discord, i mentioned her inactivity being detrimental, mentioned she had time to post more than she did, and i still think the spot should've been modkilled 🤩
 
u should go back and reread bc i never mentioned mog and discord, i mentioned her inactivity being detrimental, mentioned she had time to post more than she did, and i still think the spot should've been modkilled 🤩
I know you never mentioned mog AND discord. I meant you used mog and kat's discord stuff at two points during the game. You took a screenshot of mog's post history and dropped it once she stated she was going to be replaced. You then later used Kat's discord activity to question why she wasn't online enough posting.
 
I finally have some semblance of time to myself. Looking over a few things. I will say that I am sad to see continued discussion of this "green online" status bull****. Get over it. It's a meaningless distraction which only serves to derail productieve conversation
 
this is trying so hard to make me out to be mafia and realistically it doesn’t take this much effort to make me out to seem mafia rn.

i said that bc endless took the bait and started pushing on me that it makes me question if he’s scum. scum wouldn’t take such a cheap set up because when i flip town you’ll have a huge reason to sus endless. i don’t imagine scum endless doing that unless they’re the voice of reason for maf and are putting on such a show for maf to hide in? i mean he really cites everything.
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additionally, if he is town which i think is likely, it means he’s been wrong this whole time and maf is using it to their advantage is all.

ok this is a bleeding town post, tone 2 genuine for me and i'm against a guava lynch come @ me endless
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Guava seems like a uhh..****poster to me basically. I don't really know what to say. Endless would be right to SR guava if she wasn't a ****poster, but idk to me it feels like she just doesn't care if it doesn't make sense or that her posts aren't logical. N

yes.
 
i’m here to have a good time and point fingers! i never said i was good at this lol y’all expecting a lot

How dare you! The only one allowed here to point fingers and blame others for my own mistakes is me! Karen supreme has spoken.
 
Ok. So I actually did what I refused to do earlier. I read the 20 pages that I missed. I'm actually happy I did because damn those Karen jokes were actually pretty funny and I would've missed out.

In all seriousness, after rereading D1, knowing who is town as I read, here's some key takeaways for me (spoilered)

- Antonio's RNG post feels genuine and so does epona's and Aerious's objections to it.
- Aerious defended/propped up Endless pretty early on and that being a team would be absolutely terrifying. Kat notably disagreed with said propping up. Relevant messages:

because i have confidence in the fact that what he provides will be value regardless of role. if he flips maf later, everything he's said can be nitpicked. if he's town, i trust that he'll be able to read between the lines and provides points that some skim over/deem irrelevant. regardless of alignment, he's going to nitpick players for more information and clarification. he's someone that provides stability and draws information out of people

eehhhhhhh I don't like that line of thought. If someone is scum, they should go. I feel like that's setting thread up to brush him under the rug because "he's useful either way"

If Kat v. Aerious is t/w, hoo boy. I also didn't like how much Aerious kept on saying that maf can coast this game - projection perhaps? They're not coasting tho so ehh. Still rubbed me the wrong way.

- mog didn't really post anything that tells me much about that slot's alignment (big surprise), this did strike me as a bit sheepy and just an easy opinion for a scum to toss out to look helpful, though:

no offence but i have nothing to contribute to this discussion as it seems pointless and cloggy, it's also midnight so i'm mostly catching up on the thread, antonio is just being kind of defensive but i think he usually is lol

Epona hard agreed with this post which is interesting because it's, as I said, nothing really new or original.

Early on guav@ expressed support for the "don't keep people around" point, +1.

Ace didn't seem particularly helpful early on. Just posted easy coasty content and questions which appear useful at first glance. Tensu at least gave actual opinions on thread happenings. Kat felt his meme posting was forced and I somewhat agree.

Endless, to his credit, did really try hard to get people talking on a very dry D1, beyond just Ace's more coasty questions, but I again am coming back to the fact that I, in a round about way, lowkey like the info guav@ got from their reaction test.

Guav@ has been on Endless's ass for a long time. This is all the way from page 8 D1

with how little has actually happened since last night and EOD is in ~12 hrs, if not a whole lot happens i'm casting my vote for endless.

purely just bcos i don't like when ppl try that hard to steer/control the game. it's a game, you should be able to work with the content that the players provide without adding caveats.

This is in response to Kat going "gun to your head who's maf" and bleeds genuine to me.

Ronishy, after wanting to go all out on Karen memes, gets leery of memeing and seems to align against Ace early on, which is intriguing. Not sure what to make of it really except I do agree with Kat that Ace's tone really sounds pretty off to me for a lot of D1. It really sounds like he's joining in the meme crowd as a "how do you do, fellow townies" kind of play. Overall if it's Ronishy v Ace I side with Ronishy but more because Ace is weird, not really anything amazing Ronishy has done, although they made some good points. Tensu made some good points about Ronishy in general:

After thinking for a while, I’m gonna go ahead and say I have a very slight scum lean on Ronishy. They seem to be active in the game but haven’t said anything very original throughout their several posts. I get the impression that they are playing cautiously and waiting before saying anything that would jeopardize their appearance. I’m getting sort of sheepy vibes from their posts:




(Everyone disagrees with the rng lynch, so safe bet)




(Agreeing with endless and calling for “serious questions,” when he hasn’t offered any himself)




With the exception of calling out Ace, nothing has been too significant at all. But I guess the Ace’s mood/attitude thing is a fair enough point. I have no familiarity with his play style so I honestly can’t say for sure. Either way, I don’t think this matter is of any particular importance (but I could be wrong). The only thing that has me second guessing is the fact that Ronishy is a very new player, and could just be acting like a timid townie. If he really is scum, then I don’t know how the other two might instruct him to act. Or if his responses are limited in substance because scum are not yet sure how to approach this game. Take this with a grain of salt though, your guesses are probably as good as mine right now.

This next post by Tensu is yeesh though because I can easily see this as scum just commentating on what they themselves are doing

Generally, I feel like everyone now is trying to avoid being too assertive and focusing on remaining null. Of course there have been posts but very little traction or actual substance. This makes me rather concerned we won’t be able to make an educated decision by EOD. Scum are just hoping we mislynch due to the limited analysis available at this point. I’m confident scum are just laying low among us, contributing but not adding anything of any real significance and possibly taking conversation off on tangents intentionally. But I’m opposed to a no lynch because then we’ll have less info to analyze later. I’m also opposed to lynching inactives because they’d probably end up modkilled and aren’t adding anything anyway. Not certain what to think right now... hopefully something interesting unfolds before EOD so we have a decent lynch candidate.

Actually reading glow's dedenne push made me realize how weak and noncommittal it was just due to overall D1-ness and I really think I let Endless sway me too much. So lowkey Glow was right on lampooning me for not reading D1. I think even though I was in essence a replacement player due to my not coming in and being active till D2, I should've initially not been lazy. My b. I will learn from this in the future. :) Glow's looking really solid in my reading up, tbh.

Overall I can't say I learned much from the EoD dedenne lynch

As for who I want to lynch, my rereading makes me way more leery of Endless tbh. He generates good content but a lot of it is frankly easy content for any scum to not only make, but hide behind, as I believe guav@ noted. I still am not a huge fan of guav@ but in between her ****posts and frankly unintelligible posts, they do actually make some solid points. I see more substance in guav@'s argument against Endless. Endless just keeps harping on her ****posting and sussing them which borders on omgus imo. A lot of people I am leaning town on have doubts on endless too.

Thus I'm going to leave my vote on Endless and that's that, for now. Convince me otherwise if you want to but I'm decently comfortable with a combination of a gut feeling + what I've read over making me realize townlocking him is foolish, and what he's actually done is most likely scum motivated. My second vote (and a viable CFD candidate for me should the need arise) would go to Ace. Reading D1 made me not like him much. At all. (Not as a person - he seems like a nice person! But a nice maf is still maf and needs to die.)

Keep in mind that while I mainly focused on my feelings as I read D1, my opinion on Endless is also influenced by happenings after the fact.
 
Reading D1 made me not like him much. At all. (Not as a person - he seems like a nice person! But a nice maf is still maf and needs to die.)

This breaks my heart in a million pieces, Aces used Tearful Look, Evan attack and special attack have been lowered.
 
This breaks my heart in a million pieces, Aces used Tearful Look, Evan attack and special attack have been lowered.
Evan is a physical attacker.

Evan used dragon dance. Evan's speed and attack have increased.

Seriously though I'm only referring to your posting style and content D1. You really do seem to be a nice guy.
 
I get it why many seem to be in disagreement with my D1, I'm used to be sus D1 like always, but this game specially I wasn't in my best moment emotionally, and is not an excuse, if you want to use it against me fine, fair is fair. Apart from that, I'm getting mix feeling about Endless, since I have no prior experience, but some say Endless is controlling the narrative, while other say his reads are bad, so I'm lost here, you think the sus on Guava is mafia motivated, or this is a general feeling you have.

I have a friend with a similar play style but x10 and when we play town together, damn he looked like mafia all the game, but I knew he was town, and he killed wolf after wolf, and I was doctor so he was alive the whole game, it gas awesome, I'm telling you this because, I'm extra wary around players that play like that, because if we hit town, we are lost again, well I'm your second vote, but right now I'm not even sure of my first one.
 
im town i hid it in white text a while ago
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uwu
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anyway it's officially later, and honestly im confused. so basically i was trying to bait endless by acting super scummy to see if they would scapegoat me and endless took that so... i'm wondering if that's a galaxy level scum play or he's actually town. if he's actually town then his reads must be entirely wrong and mafia could be using that as cover?
If your genius town strategy is to obfuscate actual mafia content by making incredibly difficult to follow moves that have no real reason behind them then congratulations, you've obfuscated mafia.

I think it's far more likely that you're actual mafia though and this is a last-ditch attempt to cover up having completely non-explainable action over the game.
well my uneasiness of you is a lot more nuanced than "endless only pushed me to see if he could lead an ML on me" but i don't think ive stated it well

fmpov you seemed more passive than i would have expected in regards to kat's lynch toward the end, you didn't speak on it too much as the day was progressing -- mostly because we were having a back and forth that lasted majority of the day phase. i don't think this [passiveness] is in-character for you because
I was perfectly fine with it. I spent most of the day attempting to push the lynch I wanted (you), and when I came to the conclusion that lynch wasn't as good as I thought, I removed my push.

When I came back, I honestly didn't expect to have a guav@ vote - it was more of a conclusion I drew from rereading at the time.
So for context, I wasn't particularly unhappy w the Kat lynch and I didn't have a better option until I did, and at that point I tried to move it to them. Unfortunately it was entirely too last minute.

1.)
you are usually pretty in depth as far as your commentary on the current game state/direction goes

2.)
you did / not / scumread kat (you stated that much at the time, as well as today) but you also did not object because you did not townread kat either.
To clarify; I did not scumread Kat, but I also could absolutely not fault the reasoning behind the wagon. I'd rather let a wagon that I can understand occur than attempt some half-effort pivot to something else for no well explained reason.

this sounds like you weren't sure on kat, but the thing is i actually remember you feeding into aerious' read at one point by saying you didn't "hate the push anymore" towards the last 3-4 or so hours. (i can't remember when/if you said you hated it?)
4.5 hours from EoD, which is also before I ceased my push on you.

i get you were trying to solve me and i don't think that was pointless, but i guess i would have expected you to be more assertive toward who you would have MOST wanted to be lynched sometime during the onslaught, rather than seemingly agreeing with kat's lynch half heartedly only to later find the target you would have ideally wanted to be lynched in the last few minutes
The target I wanted most for the whole process was you - you seem to have come to some weird conclusion that I only scumread you for some odd reaction testing purpose. No, I genuinely thought you were mafia, but that was entirely because I couldn't understand why you made the decisions that you did - much like I can't understand the decisions that guav@ has made. But tbf I don't think she can explain hers.

SO if you're mafia you're doing fine either way in whatever direction your push went -- pushing on me and getting me lynched would be a successful ML, and if the lynch doesn't grain traction then pushing on me and retracting it later -- as town ML'd on their own -- would demonstrate town-like fluidity and your hands would be clean from the ML, which would be a smart move
So your thought process here is that I tested the waters to see if I could garner enough pressure on you which either a) causes enough pressure to get you lynched (positive result for mafia) or b) doesn't and I don't have to worry because I wasn't involved in the ML?

So as far as I understand the primary basis of this that I a) wasn't paying much attention to the Kat wagon (disagree but continuing) b) didn't have much pressure anywhere other than you (Which is more or less true, I did let myself get absorbed by that push a little more than I should)

I can't fault this entirely, but I will point out that I was actively pushing someone in every point during that day when I was active. (You until I pulled off you, then I wasn't around until near EoD at which point I had an alternative push.)
On radical6 - Replacements mid-game are very confusing to me because I don't know weather to take the first person's position into account or read everything on them with fresh eyes. Obviously just being dropped into a role midway is a little jarring for either side. Do you judge them by what you believed the previous person's role was earlier or how the replacement is playing now?
Both, essentially. But in this case I'd just entirely ignore Mog's content because there's pretty much absolutely nothing there and give radical a clean slate to work with.

@Endless why do you think it is impossible for Antonio/glow to be a team? I'm not subscribed to the idea anymore I'm just curious what makes you think they wouldn't be together.
Antonio spent the entirety of day 2 deathtunneling glow - if they're a team, they've absolutely pulled the rug from under me.
ok this is a bleeding town post, tone 2 genuine for me and i'm against a guava lynch come @ me endless
You're taking tone over <literally every read they've made was for a reason that was straight up terrible and were mostly refuted>?
Like maybe this is just obvious from meta and I'm out of the loop but guav@'s tone there really doesn't justify her content.
Guav@ has been on Endless's ass for a long time. This is all the way from page 8 D1
No, Guav@ immediately went on to say this was not AI. This vote on me was the essential definition of an omgus, and did not stay.

This is in response to Kat going "gun to your head who's maf" and bleeds genuine to me.
Them stating.... that they didn't have a read? Ok. Like subjective opinions are subjective opinions but also no.

Actually reading glow's dedenne push made me realize how weak and noncommittal it was just due to overall D1-ness and I really think I let Endless sway me too much.
So.. rereading made you change your opinion about something that I provided you links to read the relevant portions of? Did you a) not click those links or b) are you just saying that the post reads very differently in context? (I don't think context matters as much because I literally documented everything I talked about with a million hyperlinks. It's pretty hard to not have read the portions that matter if people actually click those hyperlinks.)

As for who I want to lynch, my rereading makes me way more leery of Endless tbh. He generates good content but a lot of it is frankly easy content for any scum to not only make, but hide behind
I am honestly incredibly wounded by this post. "Easy content for any scum to... make"???? My man, I just spent 3.5 hours last night solidly typing out a giant reads post. I have likely reread more than any other player, I have cited the sources for my reads more than any other player (as I believe that helps with transparency), and am likely the player who put the most effort into this game regardless of alignment. Once again, this hurts.

as I believe guav@ noted. I still am not a huge fan of guav@ but in between her ****posts and frankly unintelligible posts, they do actually make some solid points.
Like? The entire point I make in my guav@ case is that they... don't. At all. Like, at any point. The only defense anyone has for guav@ at this point is literally "tone". Please feel free to point out these "solid points", I'm waiting.

I see more substance in guav@'s argument against Endless. Endless just keeps harping on her ****posting and sussing them which borders on omgus imo. A lot of people I am leaning town on have doubts on endless too.
guav@'s argument against me? Are you referring to "Lol endless didn't die" or "He's weird for <scumreading the person he lead a lynch on". Will need a response here.
 
but i also find it flat out odd that @epona tl's me and has off the bat this game even tho everyone else mentions that i'm acting the exact same as i do every other game

noah fence i'm still disagreeing with a of the stuff you're saying/how you're going about things but given our post-game discussion last time i am just letting things go if i don't like them because i do not want to argue/create tension. you always call me out for scumreading you which is just illogical because you've been confirmed town the past two games (so i was obviously townclearing you) and were scum the one before that. so make it make sense

i don't understand why you're FoSing people for townreading you? first glow and then me

you also have to consider this is the first mountainous game in a long time. i can read you a lot purer when you're not throwing out claims or taking control of the game because you have a PR
 
Hey peeps, I’m sorry for being so inactive lately. Classes, work, and practices have snuck up on me and I’ve been way busier than I anticipated I would be. I’ll read through all I’ve missed and gather my thoughts before EOD.
 
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