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Some people here are laughing at this man’s death. Some are defending the respect that should be given to him, his family, and what good he had done in the past. Others here are claiming that his racist comments warrant shaming and disgrace, even after death.
If you couldn’t stand before Elizabeth and say what you’re saying, why say it?
I couldn’t imagine living to be so old that I start watching all my friends and family fade away. It’s not meme worthy.
I’m not denouncing anyone here as terrible people, but just try and think about that!
You assume we wouldn't. I don't respect racists, and I'll say that to anybody's face. I wouldn't run up to the queen and yell "I'm glad your husband's dead" because that's just cruel, but if she asked my opinion of him? And I know I'm not the only one. The royal family aren't beloved by everybody in this country... as the memes show.
I don't doubt that Philip did some good things in his life, but I don't like this idea of "now somebody's dead we must gloss over all the bad and only focus on the good". We shouldn't beatify the dead. It's unrealistic.
You assume we wouldn't. I don't respect racists, and I'll say that to anybody's face. I wouldn't run up to the queen and yell "I'm glad your husband's dead" because that's just cruel, but if she asked my opinion of him? And I know I'm not the only one. The royal family aren't beloved by everybody in this country... as the memes show.
I don't doubt that Philip did some good things in his life, but I don't like this idea of "now somebody's dead we must gloss over all the bad and only focus on the good". We shouldn't beatify the dead. It's unrealistic.
couldn't give a **** about him, thousands and thousands have died this year and the amount of coverage and mourning from the media (and the UK in general) is insane and distasteful. he was a 99 year old racist, i know he was someone's family but he wasn't mine so i don't need to care and if people want to make memes about it whatever, royal family should have abolished themselves if they had any sense or morals, nobody should be born into that and i feel sorry for meghan
Philip was born nearly 100 years ago. Does anyone realize how different society was back then? The environment he grew up in without a doubt would have some sort of racism injected into it. It's tough to grow up with things you were told are truths, then later as an adult realize just how wrong they were, because those things are rooted in you as a kid. I'm speaking from experience; I was raised Catholic, and it was tough for me to realize the LGBT+ discrimination in Catholicism is incredibly wrong because those views were rooted in me as a kid. I grew past it, no doubt because of help from LGBT+ friends that made me realize how wrong I was (and was partially why I realized atheism was the path for me). I'm sure any white person in this thread bashing Philip as a villain would also have been a racist if they were born 100 years ago, and also would have struggled to realize what was rooted in them as kids was wrong when they became older.
So you really can't blame him too much for racist remarks. It's good of us and others to acknowledge him being wrong, and for people close to him to say "hey, this wasn't ok for you to say", because I'm sure he got confused sometimes about what exactly was correct to say, again I emphasize because he was born nearly 100 years ago in a racist society. Heck, many things today we say might, in 100 years, be seen as horrible and inappropriate. He wasn't a villain; he just needed help to see he was wrong. Some guidance.
If people can't take the context of when he was born into consideration in regards to his mistakes, that's understandable and I don't blame any of you. Just as Philip may have sometimes struggled to see what exactly is correct in today's world, us too struggle to see how Philip couldn't see that some things he said and did were wrong. It's some pretty hard truths on all sides.
But also, think about the implications of what I just said. Think about how incredibly far we've come in JUST 100 years with eliminating racism. It's absolutely mind boggling how in just 100 years, we've worked incredibly hard to move past racism, because in the grand picture of history that's a super short time period to make this much progress. And no, the work isn't finished, but we're still making a lot of progress! It's truly amazing, I'm excited to see the world continue to evolve out of its racist history.
I am saddened by his death. Not because he's a royal, or because he's famous, but simply because he's a fellow human being who left behind many who loved him, just as we all will at some point.
Philip was born nearly 100 years ago. Does anyone realize how different society was back then? The environment he grew up in without a doubt would have some sort of racism injected into it. It's tough to grow up with things you were told are truths, then later as an adult realize just how wrong they were, because those things are rooted in you as a kid. I'm speaking from experience; I was raised Catholic, and it was tough for me to realize the LGBT+ discrimination in Catholicism is incredibly wrong because those views were rooted in me as a kid. I grew past it, no doubt because of help from LGBT+ friends that made me realize how wrong I was (and was partially why I realized atheism was the path for me). I'm sure any white person in this thread bashing Philip as a villain would also have been a racist if they were born 100 years ago, and also would have struggled to realize what was rooted in them as kids was wrong when they became older.
So you really can't blame him too much for racist remarks. It's good of us and others to acknowledge him being wrong, and for people close to him to say "hey, this wasn't ok for you to say", because I'm sure he got confused sometimes about what exactly was correct to say, again I emphasize because he was born nearly 100 years ago in a racist society. Heck, many things today we say might, in 100 years, be seen as horrible and inappropriate. He wasn't a villain; he just needed help to see he was wrong. Some guidance.
If people can't take the context of when he was born into consideration in regards to his mistakes, that's understandable and I don't blame any of you. Just as Philip may have sometimes struggled to see what exactly is correct in today's world, us too struggle to see how Philip couldn't see that some things he said and did were wrong. It's some pretty hard truths on all sides.
But also, think about the implications of what I just said. Think about how incredibly far we've come in JUST 100 years with eliminating racism. It's absolutely mind boggling how in just 100 years, we've worked incredibly hard to move past racism, because in the grand picture of history that's a super short time period to make this much progress. And no, the work isn't finished, but we're still making a lot of progress! It's truly amazing, I'm excited to see the world continue to evolve out of its racist history.
I am saddened by his death. Not because he's a royal, or because he's famous, but simply because he's a fellow human being who left behind many who loved him, just as we all will at some point.
Great post, this sums it up really well. People don’t seem to get that he wasn’t born in 2020. He was born nearly 100 years ago, and bought up in a massively different society than if you were, say, born in 2010. And shame on the people who think it’s okay to laugh at his death.
This will be my last post in this topic, by the way, as the last thing it should become is a back and forth argument detracting from the tragedy of the event.
my grampa is an old white man from the uk and isn't racist, hard pill for ppl to swallow but age isn't an excuse for being racist, he had access to an education and travel and did not learn from even one of many many racist encounters that he'd had, if the queen can show some level of dignity and grace then why couldn't he
born 100 years ago or not, it isn't 100 years ago anymore. he was a grown adult. he had been a grown adult for the better part of 80 years. he experienced the same society and changes we did, and yet he continued making distasteful and/or racist comments despite that. the comments in that article, for example, weren't all said 100 years ago. some of them weren't even 50. or 20. one was as recent as 2009. and that's just the comments in that article -- there are plenty more if you search for yourself.
and again, the racist remarks are only the tip of the iceberg. everyone here who's pro-phillip conveniently ignoring the colonization and pillaging and destruction of over 100 countries hasn't gone unnoticed by me, but it's because you can't defend that. you can't defend that they haven't atoned/apologized for or tried to rectify what they, as an institution and a family, did. hell, one look at the british press and the royal family's attitudes towards meghan markle (+ her son) are more than enough to tell you that the royals haven't changed, 100 years later or not.
im indian and im glad that old colonizer nazi **** is dead!! i just hope lizzie gives us our blood diamond crown jewels back before she finally goes too xoxo
Ngl, I was more sad over the news that BBC Four's whole program got cancelled on that Friday just because they had to talk about that guy's death on every channel. I wanted to watch Top of the Pops ffs...
And in case you're wondering, yeah I don't care for him or any of the Royal Family at all.
I believe that at least for a while, once Jeffrey Epstein's crimes were revealed back around 2008, yes, Prince Philip and Queen Elizabeth II were trying to basically protect Andrew if he was involved any of the crimes (heinous ones at that) that Epstein had obviously been involved in. Please don't quote me on this, though, as I might be wrong. Also, it's still not clear if Prince Andrew did anything wrong himself, but that obviously wouldn't excuse the part of the Queen or her husband if they were trying to protect Andrew from any potentially damaging material coming out, regardless of their son was guilty or not.
im indian and im glad that old colonizer nazi **** is dead!! i just hope lizzie gives us our blood diamond crown jewels back before she finally goes too xoxo
The crown is staying, like it or not. The only thing is that I just simply wish Prince William would get the throne ASAP. Prince Charles is just simply too unpopular and the idea of him making his wife, Camilla, the queen is just too unpopular and is an insult to Princess Diana's legacy. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if Camilla was princess consort like originally planned when she and Charles got married in 2005, but it's pretty clear that ever since revelations were made back around 1992-1993 of Charles having an extramarital affair with Camilla Parker Bowles while still married to Diana (as I've already mentioned here, Prince Charles and Princess Diana separated in late 1992), and the "Camillagate" tapes leaked in early 1993 that revealed intimate conversations that Charles was having with Camilla during the marriage with Diana at the end of the '80s into the early '90s, Prince Charles's image has basically never recovered. I get that Charles and Camilla fell in love when they were both quite young (having first met in 1971), but that does not excuse him having had these affairs while married to another woman.
born 100 years ago or not, it isn't 100 years ago anymore. he was a grown adult. he had been a grown adult for the better part of 80 years. he experienced the same society and changes we did, and yet he continued making distasteful and/or racist comments despite that. the comments in that article, for example, weren't all said 100 years ago. some of them weren't even 50. or 20. one was as recent as 2009. and that's just the comments in that article -- there are plenty more if you search for yourself.
and again, the racist remarks are only the tip of the iceberg. everyone here who's pro-phillip conveniently ignoring the colonization and pillaging and destruction of over 100 countries hasn't gone unnoticed by me, but it's because you can't defend that. you can't defend that they haven't atoned/apologized for or tried to rectify what they, as an institution and a family, did. hell, one look at the british press and the royal family's attitudes towards meghan markle (+ her son) are more than enough to tell you that the royals haven't changed, 100 years later or not.
This is true, in that yes, Prince Philip has obviously, with his long life, lived through numerous years of societal changes in which times have gotten more progressive on race. It wasn't like he was oblivious to these happening. I'd also like to add that just because times were different in the past and we hadn't made as much societal progress by then does not excuse these kinds of comments regardless in which the times they were made. At the same time, there is a point I'd like to make unequivocally clear: while I am not saying that all elderly people are racist, it's typically considered by society-and something I can attest to from personal experience myself-that elderly people are simply more likely to make racist comments. It's basically seen as being because of a mix of them having indeed grown up in a different era from younger generations, and on top of this, apparently psychology does show that the older you get, the less of a "filter" you have over your words. Again, I'm not excusing Prince Philip's words-I'm just saying that this is the sad truth.
Here's another point I'd like to make unequivocally clear: just because Prince Philip is now dead also does not excuse his past racist words nor make them right.
Some people here are laughing at this man’s death. Some are defending the respect that should be given to him, his family, and what good he had done in the past. Others here are claiming that his racist comments warrant shaming and disgrace, even after death.
If you couldn’t stand before Elizabeth and say what you’re saying, why say it?
I couldn’t imagine living to be so old that I start watching all my friends and family fade away. It’s not meme worthy.
I’m not denouncing anyone here as terrible people, but just try and think about that!
I simply am trying, as the OP of this thread, to point out that I take a more nuanced approach to this matter. I personally do not have wished death on Prince Philip. I don't think he deserved to die. At the same time, the racist statements he made are indefensible...
My main point in trying to bring up past controversies about Philip have to do with the fact that aside from racism (which mainly I myself have touched upon here in terms of non-racism related controversies), Prince Philip has had other controversial matters in his past, particularly his recent past up until with his death just now, that have both reflected poorly on the royal family and caused much unnecessary suffering. Like I said, for unclear at best reasons, just because these were women who were getting divorced from his sons, Princes Charles and Andrew, Philip was adamant about Princess Diana and Duchess Sarah losing their royal highness titles with the divorces in 1996. Admittedly, I'm not entirely sure what caused a poor relationship with his former daughter-in-law Sarah Ferguson, but apparently Diana's close ties with the British press in the late '80s and early '90s-at the time when her marriage with Charles was clearly falling apart and the two began having affairs (as I mentioned, in 1986, Prince Charles restarted an affair with an ex-girlfriend of his, Camilla Parker Bowles, who he ultimately got married to and is still married to now after getting divorced from Princess Diana in 1996, while Diana herself the same year, in 1986, soon afterward started an extramarital affair with her horse-riding instructor James Hewitt, and her desires for love and attention led to a whole string of affairs she had from 1986 until her and Charles's separation in 1992). In Diana's case, as she lacked the security something with a royal highness title receives following her and Prince Charles's divorce in 1996, this got her killed in a fatal car crash in Paris, France, just the following year. Princess Diana was only 36. Diana's death was honestly avoidable and Prince Philip, as her former father-in-law, can at least take some blame for her death. While in Philip's defense, and in the defense of Prince Charles as well (as Charles, as Princess Diana's ex-husband, was also keen on her losing the HRH title), Diana would have almost certainly lived had in the 1994 Mercedes-Benz S280 she worn a seatbelt (the only survivor of the crash was her bodyguard, Trevor Rees-Jones, who was wearing a seatbelt, whereas not only Princess Diana herself, but also her boyfriend, Dodi Fayed, and their driver, Henri Paul, both were not), but nonetheless, Prince Philip still, in my opinion, deserves at least a degree of blame for the death of his former daughter-in-law. Like I said, another former daughter-in-law of his, Sarah Ferguson, is honestly lucky to be alive on this basis, as she is currently 61 years old-although this is also in part because Fergie has kept a low profile since getting divorced from Prince Andrew in 1996.
You assume we wouldn't. I don't respect racists, and I'll say that to anybody's face. I wouldn't run up to the queen and yell "I'm glad your husband's dead" because that's just cruel, but if she asked my opinion of him? And I know I'm not the only one. The royal family aren't beloved by everybody in this country... as the memes show.
I don't doubt that Philip did some good things in his life, but I don't like this idea of "now somebody's dead we must gloss over all the bad and only focus on the good". We shouldn't beatify the dead. It's unrealistic.
And this brings up a major point. Like I said, in the United Kingdom, even compared to the United States, the culture surrounding criticism of public figures even after death is different. "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead", from The Wizard of Oz film from 1939, was trending after Margaret Thatcher's death (who of course herself was a former British prime minister), and after Thatcher died, you literally had towns in the northern part of England, and in Wales, which were major sites of the miners' strike of 1984 and 1985 celebrating her death in 2013. Like I said, this just simply makes the UK different from the US. As an American myself, it's something my parents frown upon, but there's just simply some differences in culture, even among culturally similar nations, we must realize. For example, on politics, arguably in the UK the prime minister gets heckled more from parliament than the President of the US ever would from Congress.
And this brings up a major point. Like I said, in the United Kingdom, even compared to the United States, the culture surrounding criticism of public figures even after death is different. "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead", from The Wizard of Oz film from 1939, was trending after Margaret Thatcher's death (who of course herself was a former British prime minister), and after Thatcher died, you literally had towns in the northern part of England, and in Wales, which were major sites of the miners' strike of 1984 and 1985 celebrating her death in 2013.
I don't care much for the royal family and the status consciousness and gossip that often comes from people being too interested in such people's lives.
That being said, I don't celebrate death. If someone did much wrong in their life, rather than cheer that they're gone, it's more proper to simply be sad that they never changed. Unlike many Americans, I didn't even cheer when bin Laden died a decade ago. I'm a person of faith, and Ezekiel 33:11 says God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, so I shouldn't, either.
Also, even if Philip himself apparently never changed his views when he should have, keep in mind that it's nonetheless possible for those in the older generations to change views. My mother was born literally on Pearl Harbor Day and often disparaged the Japanese. As she got older, this lessened, even as she acknowledged it was difficult to overcome her upbringing. But she did eventually see that the internment camps were wrong.
I could respond individually to people, but I think it's more productive to tell you all where exactly my opinions are coming from, which is my opinion of racism. Fundamentally I think racist people are victims of something that fed them that misinformation; from family, friends, the internet, or something else. Very few people wake up and says "Well, time to make more people's lives miserable!"; most people just want to do the right thing. And racists, they think their beliefs are the right thing. They just need help and guidance to show they're in fact incorrect. I don't subscribe to the opinion that all racists should burn in hell and are the scum of the earth, because that's called feeding fuel to the fire. Generating more conflict. That seems to be what the majority of the world seems to subscribe to. Racists just need help realizing they're incorrect. Ideally, it'd be great to help all the racists of the world realize they're incorrect. Realistically, that wouldn't happen, but I promise you all you'll help eliminate racism a whole heck of a lot faster if you take a more peaceful and guiding route as opposed to a more inflammatory, violent route. When I was homophobic due to Catholicism, if I was confronted with the kind of inflammatory comments being made here, why would I listen to those comments? No one wants those kind of comments, and they aren't helping anyone. I was incredibly lucky to find a supporting, helpful, peaceful group of friends who helped me realize I was wrong. Under the right support and helpful and peaceful conditions, anyone can change out of not only being racist, but also homophobic, transphobic, sexist, we can help people with leaving behind all of these.
Philip seemed to be one of those people who never changed for some reason or another. It's unfortunate, but being angry at him not changing is not the correct route to go. It only generates more conflict and thus, make it more difficult to help racist people realize they're wrong and, ultimately, make it more difficult to eliminate racism worldwide.
tl;dr I advocate a more peaceful approach to eliminating racism, not a violent or inflammatory one. That's the main fuel to my post here about Philip in this thread, and so it makes me sad to see so many inflammatory comments here. We'll never eliminate racism with so much anger.
As for the comments of his colonialism and destruction and pillaging, I don't know enough about that and thus, don't feel at all qualified to speak about that topic. I'm exclusively referring to his racist nature in my posts.
I'm gonna bite and reply to this one because I think it's an interesting discussion (also just referring to the racism aspect here)
I fully agree that you can't fight hate with hate, and that some patience and kindness with these people can go a long way. But seeing as we are talking about a public figure here I think it's completely justified that people hold him to a higher standard. When an average Joe racist makes a comment it hurts maybe 1 person, but when you are a public figure those comments reach far and hurt a lot of people. Plus it gives other racists a sense of validation in the "correctness" of their views when someone important like that can be blatantly racist. So I wouldn't say it's just "unfortunate" that he wasn't able to change his views (or at the very least keep them to himself and not spout them publicly), it's unacceptable. Is it right to be insulting a dead guy over it? Well idk. I'm white and not from Britain so it's easy for me to not necessarily be super offended by him as I'm removed from the situation but I can easily see why others are feeling very strongly about it.
Basically I think what you said would apply to an average person but I don't think it necessarily applies in this case.
I don't know much about anything of the royal family. But l didn't know he was that old! Man he was close to 100, life should gave him one more year because that would been a special birthday.
I am not a monarchist and I don’t like the idea that people can be born to privilege and power, but I feel for those who are mourning his passing. My main issue is that, as someone who was not head of state but rather a consort-why is it that he is being given 8 days of mourning when thousands of the ordinary citizens died in 2020 from COVID-19? Where is the recognition?
