Yeah, exactly. And yeah I'm glad they added it too especially to this kind of game.
Racism and video games: Nintendo with Animal Crossing before New Horizons
- Thread starter Rubygame
- Start date
You're totally right in the sense that Japan is behind, at least compared to how our society is. Just think about it in general. Even by gaming standards Nintendo is behind.
My Dad went to Japan just recently and restaurant owners stood at the entrance of the doors with their arms crossed in a big X saying no foreigners. Like????? He's a cis white male and even still that happened. Granted, it was a smaller town, not something like Tokyo but still crazy.
Rubygame
Senior Member
Now I understand your point of view much more and I completely agree. Unfortunately yes, there are those who tend to idealize Japan, when in reality it is such a closed society that damages its own components (it is one of the countries with the highest suicide rate in the world). We must never idealize or idolize anything if we do not know how things really are, because each country has its positive and negative sides.
Obviously I talked about the present, today there is a need to change because the closed Japanese mentality transferred to the rest of the world is no longer acceptable, but before, I don't say in 2012 with AC, but even before, up to 2008 maximum, you could still understand their choices. (The first changes, however, began to occur as early as 1992, so with ACNL I think Nintendo made a serious mistake, but then tried to fix it.)
Yeah, as people mentioned they are still xenophobic/bigot/ anything else phobic and yeah I don't defend it but yeah sometimes I wish some people would read up or at least look up certain things before they go on about things. I'd say that is bad for a lot of countries, though when it comes to Japan people seems to think it is like it's portrayed in anime/games or such.
While they have made changes, it's gonna take time.
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Yep that's glorious Japan. Sadly they still have a no-foreigner policy on most things ranging from that to even living there so yup.
Anyway, back on topic, I definitely agree they can be slow but yeah knowing why demands a bit attention to how they country works rather than just playing a couple of games in most cases. Better late than never.
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Lady Timpani
sway
Yeah I remember when Wild World came out and I was showing my best friend and she started setting up a character... and then she was like, "wait, can you be black?" And I felt so ashamed and sad, because as a white girl it was never something I'd considered. But she was a big Pokemon and Nintendo in general fan as well, and for a long time she had to go without being able to play as a character whose skin tone matched hers.
I'm glad it's something they've begun to add in newer games, even if some of the skin tone choices (looking at Story of Seasons) aren't super great.
I'm glad it's something they've begun to add in newer games, even if some of the skin tone choices (looking at Story of Seasons) aren't super great.
mayortiffany
Senior Member
To add to the discussion about Japanese culture in video games, I actually took a class on this last year in uni (about Japanese pop culture), and the prof I was taking it from actually specialized in the history of Japanese video games, specifically Sega.
I don't have the notes from that class anymore unfortunately, but I do remember that we had many discussions about the globalization of Japanese video games. The professor essentially argued that even though many Japanese games are now exported to larger populations, Japanese video games have always been very reflective of Japanese culture. Traditionally, when games have been produced, they were made with the domestic population as a first priority. The idea was not to make a game for an international audience, but to make a game for the domestic audience (that hopefully the international audience likes too). Moreover, when the game is produced and disseminated, the idea is that the audience is supposed to enjoy the game the way that the developers 'intended'; the audience is not supposed to ask if the game can be modified in a way that they would like.
This is not meant to provide an excuse for racist/sexist/homophobic elements of Japanese video games, but rather, to provide an explanation of why they may be there in the first place.
In this case, it may be that the developers simply never thought about choosing different skin colours as an important element of the game until now. With a fairly homogenous population in Japan, it's very possible that they just never considered the importance and implications of adding such a feature into the game. I'm not sure if that decision came from a place of xenophobia or malice, it could have very well came from a place of ignorance about how important that feature is. Someone's actions, beliefs, and values can't always be explained by their culture, but in this case, I do think it's important to remember that the way in which populations think about race, gender, and sexuality differs wildly depending on where you are in the world.
The fact that the ability to choose your skin colour have been added to the game now is a positive step in the right direction, and I hope that the Animal Crossing team will continue to consider how they can make their game more inclusive and representative.
I don't have the notes from that class anymore unfortunately, but I do remember that we had many discussions about the globalization of Japanese video games. The professor essentially argued that even though many Japanese games are now exported to larger populations, Japanese video games have always been very reflective of Japanese culture. Traditionally, when games have been produced, they were made with the domestic population as a first priority. The idea was not to make a game for an international audience, but to make a game for the domestic audience (that hopefully the international audience likes too). Moreover, when the game is produced and disseminated, the idea is that the audience is supposed to enjoy the game the way that the developers 'intended'; the audience is not supposed to ask if the game can be modified in a way that they would like.
This is not meant to provide an excuse for racist/sexist/homophobic elements of Japanese video games, but rather, to provide an explanation of why they may be there in the first place.
In this case, it may be that the developers simply never thought about choosing different skin colours as an important element of the game until now. With a fairly homogenous population in Japan, it's very possible that they just never considered the importance and implications of adding such a feature into the game. I'm not sure if that decision came from a place of xenophobia or malice, it could have very well came from a place of ignorance about how important that feature is. Someone's actions, beliefs, and values can't always be explained by their culture, but in this case, I do think it's important to remember that the way in which populations think about race, gender, and sexuality differs wildly depending on where you are in the world.
The fact that the ability to choose your skin colour have been added to the game now is a positive step in the right direction, and I hope that the Animal Crossing team will continue to consider how they can make their game more inclusive and representative.
Cosmic_Crossfade
•~You are my sun, moon and stars~°
This ^ Even in another one of my all time favorite beloved games, Fire Emblem Three Houses, there were a lot of same sex marriage options written originally in the Japanese version of the game. However, Nintendo Treehouse translators seemingly to have imposed with their influence (I say this because when looking at the original japanese script and wording of choice they choose for the NA version of the game, they do not in any way closely match up to the script written originally for the game for the majority of the part, even sometimes going as far as simply making up hetero pairings that did not exist at all in the original japanese script) a lot of same sex endings to sound super platonic and have changed the writing up so differently just to suit their preferred preferences from what I have gathered from many Japanese to English translators.
I spoke to many japanese to english translators who were fans of FE Three Houses and they too were outraged by how Nintendo Treehouse had handled the FE Three Houses same sex ending card translations. I was appalled by the erasure of lgbt love in the game, specifically that it existed in the original japanese text and was thus altered so vastly from it's original source in order to just fit "NA standards". I get trying to appeal to your demographic and changing certain things up in games or media for cultural appropriation but if you are going to add same sex options in the game anyways, then why remove most of the original script that was intended just to make it seem as if they were just "friends?" To change up translations that much is just deviating away from the original intent of the creators I feel and I find that a bit unprofessional to do in my opinion.
This is not the first time Nintendo Treehouse translators have butchered something like this as they have changed far more than just mere lgbt content from original scripts of games themselves which is saddening.
I apologize for the rant. I am clearly not a fan of the NA Nintendo Treehouse translators aha
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LuchaSloth
Sloth
I feel like...when you have a game that has a set character...it's fine that the character is...whoever. I realize that there have been way more white characters in video games over the years (and more males than females)...but, I don't really see it as a problem when there is a narrative, and this is the character that the story uses. Afterall, you have to make a specific character, and you'll never make everyone happy by doing so. There will always be people who are simply left out.
Now...with that said, it really is astounding that it took so long for "create your own character" type games to include more options for darker skinned players, women, etc. It seems like such an obvious thing that should have at least been attempted better from the start. "Better late than never" comes to mind. But, for real...why did it take so long to get here? Crazy.
Now...with that said, it really is astounding that it took so long for "create your own character" type games to include more options for darker skinned players, women, etc. It seems like such an obvious thing that should have at least been attempted better from the start. "Better late than never" comes to mind. But, for real...why did it take so long to get here? Crazy.
(white cis woman from brazil here)
I don't want to write a big text but I have been thinking about this for a while.. And I do think it is racism. Even if it's not intentional and if it's just omission. Japan is a more traditional country, yes, so were all of them 100 years ago, but that doesn't mean that so many racist atrocities over the years were not racist just because they were perpetuated due to lack of information. And the little things (like video games) matter too. That being said, I agree with this:
I think every step in the right direction should be recognized. But there are still many steps to go. A little out of subject but I have been feeling a little left out being from the South Hemisphere and seeing Nintendo being focused mainly on the north, so called summer updates in ACNH when it's winter for me (sure, I know I can dive too, that's not what this is about). Again, for me, little things and minorities matter
I don't want to write a big text but I have been thinking about this for a while.. And I do think it is racism. Even if it's not intentional and if it's just omission. Japan is a more traditional country, yes, so were all of them 100 years ago, but that doesn't mean that so many racist atrocities over the years were not racist just because they were perpetuated due to lack of information. And the little things (like video games) matter too. That being said, I agree with this:
I think every step in the right direction should be recognized. But there are still many steps to go. A little out of subject but I have been feeling a little left out being from the South Hemisphere and seeing Nintendo being focused mainly on the north, so called summer updates in ACNH when it's winter for me (sure, I know I can dive too, that's not what this is about). Again, for me, little things and minorities matter
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LuchaSloth
Sloth
Also, I think the whole situation with the gay/lesbian/non-binary stuff in games is pretty annoying also. By which, I mean the way that people react to it. Like...I'm a straight guy, but...who cares? I really don't know why some people act like it's "forced down our throats" whenever a developer adds that type of content to a game. Frankly, it should be there. Like...the reaction that people had to Last of Us 2 just for having lesbian characters and a few rainbow flags in downtown Seattle...absolutely absurd. It is a masterpiece of a game. Grow up.
virtualpet
Anomaly
We're white and new to Animal Crossing, but I was definitely surprised to hear it took them that long to give players a colored option. I know one animal was also changed because she could be taken as being representation of blackface, but I don't know if that was intentional or not. I can also probably speak about Pokemon too knowing that game, they've had a couple racism controversies. Jynx I know is the most popular example, but the Gym Leader Lenora had to be changed internationally because she fit the mammy stereotype. Pokemon off the top of my head (AC might do this too?) also does the circle big lip style we see a lot of black artists criticize.
I'm also seeing people talk about LGBT+, which I'll comment on too because we do consider ourselves to be nonbinary and queer. Honestly, Animal Crossing is probably the first character customization game where we could actually play as a character that felt more like us. Even though the two styles are still sort of fitting the gender binary, the option to be nonbinary was a huge driving force for us to get the game because we never get that opportunity in Nintendo games. It makes it easy for us to keep playing and feel we're in the world.
The gender issue has also been a problem in Pokemon especially ever since we realized we were nonbinary in 2015. It feels very hard to get into the games now because we can only play as a boy or a girl. We love Pokemon and probably always will, but it's just super hard to get into a game were you're expected to project onto the player but character but you're always getting misgendered.
Although I don't know anything about racism or lgbt+phobia in Japan, this is coming from the perspective of a white nonbinary American who grew up playing Nintendo games.
Also related to bigotry in Nintendo games, we noticed while playing through Wild World some of the dialogue could be taken as being ableist, and I've noticed this in the GC games, but people role their eyes at me whenever I try to talk about that stuff so we'll leave it at that.
I'm also seeing people talk about LGBT+, which I'll comment on too because we do consider ourselves to be nonbinary and queer. Honestly, Animal Crossing is probably the first character customization game where we could actually play as a character that felt more like us. Even though the two styles are still sort of fitting the gender binary, the option to be nonbinary was a huge driving force for us to get the game because we never get that opportunity in Nintendo games. It makes it easy for us to keep playing and feel we're in the world.
The gender issue has also been a problem in Pokemon especially ever since we realized we were nonbinary in 2015. It feels very hard to get into the games now because we can only play as a boy or a girl. We love Pokemon and probably always will, but it's just super hard to get into a game were you're expected to project onto the player but character but you're always getting misgendered.
Although I don't know anything about racism or lgbt+phobia in Japan, this is coming from the perspective of a white nonbinary American who grew up playing Nintendo games.
Also related to bigotry in Nintendo games, we noticed while playing through Wild World some of the dialogue could be taken as being ableist, and I've noticed this in the GC games, but people role their eyes at me whenever I try to talk about that stuff so we'll leave it at that.
Can I assume you’re talking about this Tumblr post from Friends at the Table/Waypoint (VICE Games) Austin Walker? (Language/Slur warning I guess?) [Reaction tweet in a way]
I mean as a primarily Asian American male (Taiwanese/White), I’m a bit embarrassed I never really gave things like this much thought until the last couple of years. Like growing up the only thing I remotely considered was “Why didn’t Pokemon have girl trainers”, because for the most part I could self insert into most main character roles. I’m glad companies are finally starting to get better, but it’s something we have to keep most game companies under pressure to do, especially considering how recently it’s come out from the horrible mess at Ubisoft about how “female protagonists” don’t sell according to some out of touch high level types.
I mean as a primarily Asian American male (Taiwanese/White), I’m a bit embarrassed I never really gave things like this much thought until the last couple of years. Like growing up the only thing I remotely considered was “Why didn’t Pokemon have girl trainers”, because for the most part I could self insert into most main character roles. I’m glad companies are finally starting to get better, but it’s something we have to keep most game companies under pressure to do, especially considering how recently it’s come out from the horrible mess at Ubisoft about how “female protagonists” don’t sell according to some out of touch high level types.
I don't have much to say except ...
Japan is not a stranger to PoC. They may be fairly caucasian out there, but it's not like they've never seen a frickin PoC.
It's a conscious choice to exclude PoC people in all of their media because they idolize paper white, porcelain skin. It's not because they are, it's because that is their values.
:]
It doesn't matter if it's a whole culture, it's racist.
Japan is not a stranger to PoC. They may be fairly caucasian out there, but it's not like they've never seen a frickin PoC.
It's a conscious choice to exclude PoC people in all of their media because they idolize paper white, porcelain skin. It's not because they are, it's because that is their values.
:]
It doesn't matter if it's a whole culture, it's racist.
mayortiffany
Senior Member
Just wanted to add that discussions of race & ethnicity vary around the world, and the American conception of race (including the use of the term "people of colour") is not necessarily the way in which race is viewed and recognized globally. It's important to remember that the way in which race, or racism is recognized in other communities might not the same as our own experiences.
I recently read an interesting Q&A with Professor Michael Sharpe, who answers questions about racism and immigration in Japan. I'll link it here if anyone's interested in reading it.
(Tl;dr on his discussion of racism in Japan:
Japan still experiences racism, but the way in which it is manifested is different than how it's manifested in the west. Racism against visible foreigners is often based on country of origin and the level of that country's development, but based on his own experience as a Black man living in Japan, racism can be experienced by different people in different ways.)
I recently read an interesting Q&A with Professor Michael Sharpe, who answers questions about racism and immigration in Japan. I'll link it here if anyone's interested in reading it.
(Tl;dr on his discussion of racism in Japan:
Japan still experiences racism, but the way in which it is manifested is different than how it's manifested in the west. Racism against visible foreigners is often based on country of origin and the level of that country's development, but based on his own experience as a Black man living in Japan, racism can be experienced by different people in different ways.)
POC here. Yeah, the new skin options are a great step and I love it. So many people want their characters to be themselves in the world of AC and now they can get it right. Personally, my characters tend to have similarities to me but also be fictional (they have different names, for example) but it's great to be able to see this aspect of myself in them and to give them a variety of skin tones according to how I picture them.
It's important to remember that this game is for kids. Diversity and representation are especially important at that age, because you're still learning about the world and who you are. It's really easy for kids to subconsciously get the message that they don't belong in the stories they like because nobody like them does it. As an adult it's much easier to shrug it off when a game only lets you be white (even if that sucks) but for kids it's really major. I'm not just happy for myself, but especially for any kids who might be getting into AC now.
The game is Japanese, yeah, but it's not sold exclusively in Japan. It's not uncommon for games to become less Japan-specific when they're internationally popular and AC has already been through some of that (like Jane's design getting changed in localizations). This is just Nintendo acknowledging that people around the world play the game and want to be a bigger part of it.
As for Japanese racism: that's a whole can of worms but I don't think there's a point in making excuses. Japan has historically done terrible things as a result of racism, like the things it did in WWII that still get overlooked. The history of racism in Japan is virulent too, it's not just in the West, and acting like it's "less bad" is really crappy to people who experience it or have experienced it. I haven't, so I can't speak about that on a personal level, but of course it's just not right.
It's important to remember that this game is for kids. Diversity and representation are especially important at that age, because you're still learning about the world and who you are. It's really easy for kids to subconsciously get the message that they don't belong in the stories they like because nobody like them does it. As an adult it's much easier to shrug it off when a game only lets you be white (even if that sucks) but for kids it's really major. I'm not just happy for myself, but especially for any kids who might be getting into AC now.
The game is Japanese, yeah, but it's not sold exclusively in Japan. It's not uncommon for games to become less Japan-specific when they're internationally popular and AC has already been through some of that (like Jane's design getting changed in localizations). This is just Nintendo acknowledging that people around the world play the game and want to be a bigger part of it.
As for Japanese racism: that's a whole can of worms but I don't think there's a point in making excuses. Japan has historically done terrible things as a result of racism, like the things it did in WWII that still get overlooked. The history of racism in Japan is virulent too, it's not just in the West, and acting like it's "less bad" is really crappy to people who experience it or have experienced it. I haven't, so I can't speak about that on a personal level, but of course it's just not right.
DJStarstryker
Senior Member
I'm white and I didn't really experience much racism or xenophobia in Japan when I lived there. Sure, it was there a little. But the biggest issue I think is that Japan's homogenous, with something like 99% of the population being Japanese. They simply aren't used to seeing people who don't look and sound like them. Japan is getting better with this... slowly. But only very slowly, unfortunately. It's not an excuse or anything, but sometimes they seem to forget people of other races exist. It's mindboggling to us in the rest of the world, but to them that's just how it is.
A lot of the characters in Japanese developed video games that appear "white" are actually supposed to be Japanese. Even Mario (yes, Super Mario Bros Mario!) is supposed to be Japanese, despite his name and his big nose. You can generally assume they are supposed to be Japanese unless the game gives a story reason for them not to be. For example, Solid Snake from the Metal Gear series is American because he's supposed to be US Army. Most Resident Evil characters are American because the stories mostly take place in America.
Diversity in gaming is definitely important though. As a female gamer, it's still really neat to me when a game has a non-customizable main character that's female. ESPECIALLY if the main female character is NOT specifically supposed to be sexy eye candy to cis male gamers like Lara Croft or Bayonetta. It's even more rare to see POC main characters, or characters that are LGBT+. I hope Japan, and everywhere frankly, starts taking even more strides to be diverse.
A lot of the characters in Japanese developed video games that appear "white" are actually supposed to be Japanese. Even Mario (yes, Super Mario Bros Mario!) is supposed to be Japanese, despite his name and his big nose. You can generally assume they are supposed to be Japanese unless the game gives a story reason for them not to be. For example, Solid Snake from the Metal Gear series is American because he's supposed to be US Army. Most Resident Evil characters are American because the stories mostly take place in America.
Diversity in gaming is definitely important though. As a female gamer, it's still really neat to me when a game has a non-customizable main character that's female. ESPECIALLY if the main female character is NOT specifically supposed to be sexy eye candy to cis male gamers like Lara Croft or Bayonetta. It's even more rare to see POC main characters, or characters that are LGBT+. I hope Japan, and everywhere frankly, starts taking even more strides to be diverse.
I’m white and tbh whenever I hear about companies that have racist content, even if they didn’t realize they were being racist, I have a hard time looking past that even if they get better. But it’s nice to know that they’re finally making an effort to be more inclusive of BIPOC and it makes me want to semi support them again
I’m sorry if this is rude, but when you say you’re happy that your character is tanned because you like Dark skin, I sometimes wonder if like for me, being white if that’s problematic. I guess it depends on someone’s intentions
Tbh I say Black Loves Matter, but if a Black person were to get annoyed with me saying it, I would just show my support and not be annoying
tessa grace
yeehaw
Just because non-inclusivity is the norm in other countries doesn't mean its okay, especially when Nintendo's revenue looks like this:
(blue being 2014, magenta being 2021)
Now of course this does not show 2012 and before, but I suspect the previous years have similar patterns, thanks to globalization like @Rubygame said. They could've added multiple skin tones in the 2016 Welcome Amiibo update, as well.
All I'm saying is that Nintendo's outreach is far greater than Japan, and they should be meeting global expectations if they want to succeed politically and financially as a company.
Yes, Japan is behind, but not that behind. Diversity in gaming has been a hot topic for far longer than the release of New Leaf.
(p.s Ruby don't feel the need to apologize for your English! You write better than me, and English is my native language.)
(blue being 2014, magenta being 2021)
Now of course this does not show 2012 and before, but I suspect the previous years have similar patterns, thanks to globalization like @Rubygame said. They could've added multiple skin tones in the 2016 Welcome Amiibo update, as well.
All I'm saying is that Nintendo's outreach is far greater than Japan, and they should be meeting global expectations if they want to succeed politically and financially as a company.
Yes, Japan is behind, but not that behind. Diversity in gaming has been a hot topic for far longer than the release of New Leaf.
(p.s Ruby don't feel the need to apologize for your English! You write better than me, and English is my native language.)
Yeah, I agree, just because it seems to be a pattern with a lot of companies, doesn’t make it okay
xSuperMario64x
a very tired Bug 🪲💤
just to add to this briefly, I am not a POC but I do have a New Leaf player who has a relatively dark skin tone (as in, maximum tan dark) and it's very annoying that if I don't play for a while and I boot up the game I find him without a tan. it just doesn't feel right for him to not have dark skin. so I definitely understand the frustration in not being able to choose skin tone prior to New Horizons (with the exception of Pocket Camp and I think Happy Home Designer? but those are spin-off games so they don't really count)
it's also kinda wild that the default skin tone is like really pale. I have a light complextion but even in New Horizons I find myself choosing a skin tone darker than the lightest bc the lightest is almost ghost-like. I guess maybe that's the standard in Japan but it's still pretty wack.
it's also kinda wild that the default skin tone is like really pale. I have a light complextion but even in New Horizons I find myself choosing a skin tone darker than the lightest bc the lightest is almost ghost-like. I guess maybe that's the standard in Japan but it's still pretty wack.
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