Reproductive Health Equity Act

[pizzapie44]

antonin scalia's ghost is going to haunt this thread for all eternity

 

[Goshi]

(Also, more relevant to the thread: It?s been shown that tax-funded birth control and sex ed programs actually save the government money because paying for education and safe sex practices is cheaper than paying for pregnancy and childbirth costs. paying for abortions instead of pregnancy/childbirth would definitely be cheaper as well. Do your research.)

Also, made this addition in relevance to the thread topic.

 

[-Apples-]

If your opinion is blind to fact, I'm afraid that your opinion becomes null. You cannot be blind to fact.

They still have the right to believe what they want to believe. You may show me the facts that prove my opinion on a particular issue wrong and I can validate them, but I would still be stuck to my beliefs because I can get facts from the other side. No matter who you side with, facts backing both sides are correct, unless if it includes exaggerations or something objectively ridiculous (i.e. mining for coal makes you a plant hater, universal healthcare is bad because it's an Orwellian practice, taxes should be increased because the rich are evil). This is why I choose to stick with my pro-life opinions, even if Goshi's points are valid.

 

[tifachu]

I am pro-choice. The subject of healthcare and abortion/pro-life vs pro-choice are two different things to me.

I think all healthcare should be free, not just abortions.
Though, this little step would be helpful for many women and young girls.
Also, who cares if our tax money goes to it?
Tax money also goes to the military, I don't see how health care is worse.

Also, everyone's situations are different. Some women/girls absolutely cannot raise a child at the time they want an abortion. Going through with a pregnancy can be worse than aborting a fetus. Puts the poor woman in debt, struggling for money, the child can grow up deprived of proper affection because mom is working her a** off just to have a meal, and also, not everyone's parents can be happy about their literal child-aged child giving birth to a child of their own.

While I am very meticulous about taking my BC pill every day, on the ~1% chance I ever do find out I'm pregnant, you can bet I'm aborting that fetus right away. Considering I'm not even in my second year of college, don't have a part-time job let alone a full-time one, and that I'm still in my "-"teen years. Not to mention, I have the mentality of an actual child, because of my personality, and also mental illness. So no, I'm not going to let a child grow up with me the way I am now. My mother also says she's going to be kicking me out of the country to go live with her relatives in the Philippines, if I do have a child at my age.

Oh and just bc someone aborts a fetus at one point in their lives, doesn't always mean they won't want a pregnancy later on. Timing is everything. We give birth after 9 months, why not wait a few years till the time is right and the child & mother can live happily? Maybe I will have a child one day, maybe I won't, but I promise myself it will not be any time soon. Not until I at least finish college and get a real job. At the least. It would preferably be when all my college debt is paid off or almost paid off.

Btw I hope everyone who sees a tiny fetus as a life doesn't eat meat. Or eggs. Or use any animal products at all.
Cuz those are actual living, sentient, alive lives, that are well past the stage of exiting from a vag***/cloaca. . . ,

//take a shot every time u see the word child

 

[-Apples-]

No offense, but from that reply alone it kind of shows how little you recognize how this effects people.

But, to answer your question, yes. I do care very much.

So you are very passionate about the issue. And yes, I saw your point on the taxpayer funded abortions and how it saves money. But the whole reason why this thread exists is because I felt that Oregon's abortion law was too extreme, and I don't know if pro-choicers actually believe undocumented immigrants should have abortions for free. The issue is more than just about abortion. It's about immigration rights too, and whether undocumented immigrants should be allowed to have abortions for free.

 

[timecapsule]

I would say that I'm Christian.
But I still don't think I have ANY right to tell someone to do/not do something just because I think its wrong.

On that note, in my opinion, I believe abortion is something that should be 100% available (to as many people as possible. just because you're not a citizen doesn't mean you don't deserve to be helped imo) to be legally and safely performed in a professional, clean environment.

High-five to Goshi for the wonderfully written "documentary"- it was very well supported and generally rad to see someone really do their research and not be lazy like me

But yeah I don't have access to news 24/7 anymore- which is probably a good thing- but also means I'm not entirely caught up on this whole ordeal. So excuse any errors hehh... i'm also somewhat young so I wouldn't say I'm the most mature/wisest person to be talking about this... lol

 

[brownboy102]

They still have the right to believe what they want to believe. You may show me the facts that prove my opinion on a particular issue wrong and I can validate them, but I would still be stuck to my beliefs because I can get facts from the other side. No matter who you side with, facts backing both sides are correct, unless if it includes exaggerations or something objectively ridiculous (i.e. mining for coal makes you a plant hater, universal healthcare is bad because it's an Orwellian practice, taxes should be increased because the rich are evil). This is why I choose to stick with my pro-life opinions, even if Goshi's points are valid.

But I haven't seen you counter Goshi's post yet, which leads me to assume that you have nothing to counter it with. You're giving reason for not changing your opinion but none of it, in my eyes, is justified until you can counter the argument.

- - - Post Merge - - -

/take a shot every time u see the word child

Sounds like a trip to alcohol poisoning

 

[seliph]

I think it says a lot when people who call themselves "pro-life" want undocumented citizens to receive less healthcare.

 

[-Apples-]

But I haven't seen you counter Goshi's post yet, which leads me to assume that you have nothing to counter it with. You're giving reason for not changing your opinion but none of it, in my eyes, is justified until you can counter the argument.

Are you really sure that I need to reconsider my opinion? Do you really want me to become a pro-choicer instead of a pro-lifer? Because I'm not going to change my opinions, even under new knowledge, peer pressure, or internet posts.

 

[brownboy102]

Are you really sure that I need to reconsider my opinion? Do you really want me to become a pro-choicer instead of a pro-lifer? Because I'm not going to change my opinions, even under new knowledge, peer pressure, or internet posts.

I'm asking you to provide some of that "counter argument" you spoke of earlier.

They still have the right to believe what they want to believe. You may show me the facts that prove my opinion on a particular issue wrong and I can validate them, but I would still be stuck to my beliefs because I can get facts from the other side. No matter who you side with, facts backing both sides are correct, unless if it includes exaggerations or something objectively ridiculous (i.e. mining for coal makes you a plant hater, universal healthcare is bad because it's an Orwellian practice, taxes should be increased because the rich are evil). This is why I choose to stick with my pro-life opinions, even if Goshi's points are valid.

I'm also asking you not to ignore fact in favour of belief.

 

[-Apples-]

I'm asking you to provide some of that "counter argument" you spoke of earlier.



I'm also asking you not to ignore fact in favour of belief.

Sorry for my misunderstanding of what you were saying.

I can't think too much of a counter-argument right now, but for that whole "pro-life linked to terrorism" part, all political issues have people like this, not just pro-lifers. There's eco-terrorism, Antifa, and a whole lot of other political violence issues. Usually the more controversial groups are the most threatened out of anything.

 

[N e s s]

I see we're on TBT Abortion discussion #1000 now, thanks apples

 

[Livvy]

lol @ the people straight up saying "I'm not going to let facts and valid points that have proven me wrong change my opinion!!"

Like what are you basing your opinion on then. I've never seen people so proud to be willfully ignorant.

 

[Vizionari]

Despite that long post pointing out the facts, I am not changing my opinion on abortions. Even if they don't think an unborn fetus isn't considered a human, it's still a human to some, and not part of the woman's body either. It spends the first nine months developing in the woman's body, then once it's out, it's already viable, but still needs to develop (bone fusion, brain development etc.). I may see what you believe on the whole issue, and you may have a lot of evidence to back it up, but I still choose to believe that abortion is murder, taxpayer-funded abortions is government interference with religion, and that abortion rights should be limited. Whether or not I know more about the issue, I'm set in stone on my side.

It's fine if you personally believe abortion is murder. But that's not what being pro-choice is. Pro-choice is giving the woman the choice whether to abort her baby or keep it. Pro-choice is not anti-life. I feel like people keep misunderstanding that :/

Also the part about government interfering with religion: it's true we have freedom of religion, but there's a reason we have separation of the church and state.

 

[KaydeeKrunk]

Full support. If I get into it anymore I'll probably not be able to stop. Just... if you need or want an abortion you deserve to get a safe one.

 

[Goshi]

I think it says a lot when people who call themselves "pro-life" want undocumented citizens to receive less healthcare.

Took the words right outta my mouth, lol.

Sorry for my misunderstanding of what you were saying.

I can't think too much of a counter-argument right now, but for that whole "pro-life linked to terrorism" part, all political issues have people like this, not just pro-lifers. There's eco-terrorism, Antifa, and a whole lot of other political violence issues. Usually the more controversial groups are the most threatened out of anything.

Normally when confronted with the issue of violence as the evidence in question, the better choice is not to dismiss it but to address it.

 

[Hyoon]

I just wanted to comment on the illegal immigrant and healthcare sentiment here.

It's really is not hard to be a decent human being. If there's someone needing help (medical help for that matter that could be life threatening), are you going to stop and ask them for their papers before calling an ambulance? How does that sound at all ethical? If you're going to say it's because they broke the laws, then do we stop medical treatment for murderers/criminals because they broke the law as well? Should we start being selective with who we allow to give medical treatment to? I think I'm gonna stop my tangent there lol...

But yeah, I'm just gonna echo some great things that was already said. Just because you don't believe in something, doesn't mean you can impose on someone else's choice. It's their life, not yours. You don't know their circumstances, so who are you to judge their decision?

 

[-Apples-]

I think it says a lot when people who call themselves "pro-life" want undocumented citizens to receive less healthcare.

In the contrary, it makes perfect sense that illegal immigrants wouldn't get free healthcare. And do you know why? If you want to have the same citizenship rights as everyone else (financial aid, voting, food stamps, medicaid etc), you have to be a citizen. Now if they are traveling abroad and need healthcare, whether or not they are going for healthcare or tourism, but need healthcare, that's a different story. But if you're not a citizen of the United States, you shouldn't even live here. Unless if you want to sign up for amnesty, then that wouldn't be a problem. But we shouldn't have people crossing the borders or the seas illegally just to get free stuff.

 

[brownboy102]

In the contrary, it makes perfect sense that illegal immigrants wouldn't get free healthcare. And do you know why? If you want to have the same citizenship rights as everyone else (financial aid, voting, food stamps, medicaid etc), you have to be a citizen. Now if they are traveling abroad and need healthcare, whether or not they are going for healthcare or tourism, but need healthcare, that's a different story. But if you're not a citizen of the United States, you shouldn't even live here. Unless if you want to sign up for amnesty, then that wouldn't be a problem. But we shouldn't have people crossing the borders or the seas illegally just to get free stuff.

I hadn't realized that crossing the seas to escape war and risk of death for the safety of their own lives and their BORN children's lives was such a crime.

Think about what you say for a moment.

 

[visibleghost]

"pro life" means "i care more about unborn babies that arent human beings yet than i care about immigrants, women, children who are born and have a crap life because of povert or w/e"

newsflash: people who are in bad situations haven't always done something to deserve to be there.