The Vegan and Vegetarian Thread

[Soraru]

lowkey, the demonizing omnivores with "you cannot be an animal lover who advocates for animal rights if you eat meat because you pay people to torture and rip out animal guts for your selfish consumption, therefore you love to torture animals" is a very upsetting "guilt trip" method. not because its "the harsh truth" but because it goes under the unfair beleif and prosecution of judgement that everyone who eats meat deliberately wishes harm and torture upon animals. there is a difference between disagreeing with inhumane torture of animals before death and beleiving in giving animals decent lives and a painless death. it can be argued that they ultimately have the same result. a dead animal. its better to live with decent lives and die without pain rather than be processed and tortured in an animal factory there is a difference in that. however, this is simply my opinion and philosophies that i beleive does not NEED to be enforced throughout the world. i can understand the heavy, emotional sentiment of beleiving that everyone who partakes in eating meat no matter the methods is placed under the same label as "murdurer"

another point, im really against those who enforce their vegan diets on pets who NEED meat in their diet especially those whose ancestors eat meat. such as cats and dogs. just because some hmans are capable of living without meat does not mean it can apply to other species. its possible for wolves to eat berries and cats to eat grass on the side, but their predomintory, natural diet that their own bodies were built for, is to capture and eat meat. also, i dont think veganism is for EVERY HUMAN, since every human's body is built different and has different needs.

despite my points/beleifs above with the prosecution and intolerance, i am still interested in getting to know more about veganism and its health benefits and deficiencies for humans, outside the ethics topic. and just in general, how it works for those who strictly follow it.

can someone who has an unbiased, and decent knowledge in the nutrients and vitamins in food that the human body needs, tell me what is the health pros and cons for having a vegan diet?
i know that eating alot more greens (60%) in comparison to the needed (10%) meat is much more healthier for human diet in general, while ive heard that vegans have nutrition deficiencies because they do not get enough calcium/iron/zinc/vitamin b12 that is found in meats, due to cutting out meat.

 

[forestyne]

lowkey, the demonizing omnivores with "you cannot be an animal lover who advocates for animal rights if you eat meat because you pay people to torture and rip out animal guts for your selfish consumption, therefore you love to torture animals" is a very upsetting "guilt trip" method. not because its "the harsh truth" but because it goes under the unfair beleif and prosecution of judgement that everyone who eats meat deliberately wishes harm and torture upon animals. there is a difference between disagreeing with inhumane torture of animals before death and beleiving in giving animals decent lives and a painless death. it can be argued that they ultimately have the same result. a dead animal. its better to live with decent lives and die without pain rather than be processed and tortured in an animal factory there is a difference in that. however, this is simply my opinion and philosophies that i beleive does not NEED to be enforced throughout the world. i can understand the heavy, emotional sentiment of beleiving that everyone who partakes in eating meat no matter the methods is placed under the same label as "murdurer"

another point, im really against those who enforce their vegan diets on pets who NEED meat in their diet especially those whose ancestors eat meat. such as cats and dogs. just because some hmans are capable of living without meat does not mean it can apply to other species. its possible for wolves to eat berries and cats to eat grass on the side, but their predomintory, natural diet that their own bodies were built for, is to capture and eat meat. also, i dont think veganism is for EVERY HUMAN, since every human's body is built different and has different needs.

despite my points/beleifs above with the prosecution and intolerance, i am still interested in getting to know more about veganism and its health benefits and deficiencies for humans, outside the ethics topic. and just in general, how it works for those who strictly follow it.

can someone who has an unbiased, and decent knowledge in the nutrients and vitamins in food that the human body needs, tell me what is the health pros and cons for having a vegan diet?
i know that eating alot more greens (60%) in comparison to the needed (10%) meat is much more healthier for human diet in general, while ive heard that vegans have nutrition deficiencies because they do not get enough calcium/iron/zinc/vitamin b12 that is found in meats, due to cutting out meat.

I know nothing about anything, but the Vegan Society website has good articles and resources on plant-based foods and nutrition.

 

[Bowie]

There is a deliberate intent there to harm animals if you are aware of what goes into the food that you eat, though. If you take the time to watch and see what happens, then you can't call it guilt-tripping when somebody reminds you of it. To be frank, whether you believe it's wrong or not does not make any difference to the animal. It dies whether you love it or you hate it as you're eating it. That's just how it is.

And also, very few animal deaths in the name of food have no pain. I've literally seen cows hung upside down by their legs and their throats slit. I've also seen, something which I assume is common knowledge by now, newborn chicks being hatched and then immediately thrown into twisting grinders if they aren't female (because male chicks can't benefit humans in any way). There is even more graphic stuff that happens to them, stuff I couldn't even go into here, but a simple Google search could give you all the information you want about how they are treated, and in the world of business, nobody cares.

To avoid losing milk production, an average cow is forced to live an endless cycle of pregnancy and birth until they themselves die, and their calves are immediately taken away from them when this happens so that they can be killed for someone's plate. If the calve is male (thus useless) they are usually sold off and killed very quickly, even when they are only a few days old.

All forms of dairy farming involve forcibly impregnating cows. This involves a person inserting his arm far into the cow’s rectum in order to position the uterus, and then forcing an instrument into her vagina. The restraining apparatus used is commonly called a "rape rack", even.

While you aren't directly killing the animal yourself, you are funding it, thus supporting it, and that support leads to these animal's deaths. Vegans save over 100 lives a year. The less people eat meat, the less animals are bred for consumption.

 

[Brookie]

There is a deliberate intent there to harm animals if you are aware of what goes into the food that you eat, though. If you take the time to watch and see what happens, then you can't call it guilt-tripping when somebody reminds you of it. To be frank, whether you believe it's wrong or not does not make any difference to the animal. It dies whether you love it or you hate it as you're eating it. That's just how it is.

And also, very few animal deaths in the name of food have no pain. I've literally seen cows hung upside down by their legs and their throats slit. I've also seen, something which I assume is common knowledge by now, newborn chicks being hatched and then immediately thrown into twisting grinders if they aren't female (because male chicks can't benefit humans in any way). There is even more graphic stuff that happens to them, stuff I couldn't even go into here, but a simple Google search could give you all the information you want about how they are treated, and in the world of business, nobody cares.

To avoid losing milk production, an average cow is forced to live an endless cycle of pregnancy and birth until they themselves die, and their calves are immediately taken away from them when this happens so that they can be killed for someone's plate. If the calve is male (thus useless) they are usually sold off and killed very quickly, even when they are only a few days old.

All forms of dairy farming involve forcibly impregnating cows. This involves a person inserting his arm far into the cow’s rectum in order to position the uterus, and then forcing an instrument into her vagina. The restraining apparatus used is commonly called a "rape rack", even.

While you aren't directly killing the animal yourself, you are funding it, thus supporting it, and that support leads to these animal's deaths. Vegans save over 100 lives a year. The less people eat meat, the less animals are bred for consumption.

Bowie, while I do understand your sentiment. Is this no different then buying cheap clothing that were made in asian sweat-shops with horrible conditions?

Btw, I have read all about what you talked about - that's why it bothers me. I'll just leave the thread now, I feel like a heartless scum.

 

[moonford]

There is a deliberate intent there to harm animals if you are aware of what goes into the food that you eat, though. If you take the time to watch and see what happens, then you can't call it guilt-tripping when somebody reminds you of it. To be frank, whether you believe it's wrong or not does not make any difference to the animal. It dies whether you love it or you hate it as you're eating it. That's just how it is.

And also, very few animal deaths in the name of food have no pain. I've literally seen cows hung upside down by their legs and their throats slit. I've also seen, something which I assume is common knowledge by now, newborn chicks being hatched and then immediately thrown into twisting grinders if they aren't female (because male chicks can't benefit humans in any way). There is even more graphic stuff that happens to them, stuff I couldn't even go into here, but a simple Google search could give you all the information you want about how they are treated, and in the world of business, nobody cares.

To avoid losing milk production, an average cow is forced to live an endless cycle of pregnancy and birth until they themselves die, and their calves are immediately taken away from them when this happens so that they can be killed for someone's plate. If the calve is male (thus useless) they are usually sold off and killed very quickly, even when they are only a few days old.

All forms of dairy farming involve forcibly impregnating cows. This involves a person inserting his arm far into the cow’s rectum in order to position the uterus, and then forcing an instrument into her vagina. The restraining apparatus used is commonly called a "rape rack", even.

While you aren't directly killing the animal yourself, you are funding it, thus supporting it, and that support leads to these animal's deaths. Vegans save over 100 lives a year. The less people eat meat, the less animals are bred for consumption.

Excellent post Bowie.

Animals should be able to live freely like Humans, it's as simple as that.

- - - Post Merge - - -

What are your favourite vegan/vegetarian foods?

 

[Fleshy]

It's completely possible to care about animals without being vegan, the majority of people do. I too strongly disagree with the mindset that unless you're vegan, you don't love or care about animals. They're are many great animal activists out there, who have gone above and beyond to help animals in many different ways - why should that be made negligible simply because they choose to eat their cereal with cow's milk? Likewise, being vegan doesn't automatically make you almighty, many public figures who are vegan have openly supported brands which test on animals, and even brands which employ child labor, but hey, at least they're vegan, right? I just really hate the demonetization of people who eat meat.

I also understand standing up for animals and veganism and trying to make a change, but many people really do go about it in the wrong way, guilt-tripping people who eat meat and making them out to be terrible people - which simply isn't true. It does much more harm than good. It probably sounds pathetic but I'm honestly scared to admit I'm vegan, due to the reputation we have, we're associated with terrible organisations like PETA who assault and harras people, it just makes me sad. I don't think hate towards vegans, or people who aren't vegans, is fair at all.

I know my opinions are unusual among vegans, I just don't like the harshness. I'm vegan because I choose to be, I don't like what happens to animals, and I don't want to contribute to it, and heck, if there was a button I could press to make it stop, I'd press it in a heartbeat, but that's my belief and my choice, so I'll keep it that way. I used to be really outspoken in the ""vegan community"" but it's just honestly so toxic and beyond mean. What is truly bad, in my opinion, is how the big cooperations have employed harsher killing methods - really causing animals pain, just because they don't want to shed out a few extra $$$ to stop a little suffering, it's the methods and practices of people who are only after the money that is truly messed up, and that is not at all the fault of people who eat meat.

 

[Bowie]

I don't wanna turn this thread upside down so I'm just gonna leave it at what I said. I'm glad we can all discuss these sort of things civilly, nonetheless! Feel free to continue debating without me.

What are your favourite vegan/vegetarian foods?

Quorn is amazing! Not entirely sure if they are just a UK thing, though.

 

[Fleshy]

can someone who has an unbiased, and decent knowledge in the nutrients and vitamins in food that the human body needs, tell me what is the health pros and cons for having a vegan diet?
i know that eating alot more greens (60%) in comparison to the needed (10%) meat is much more healthier for human diet in general, while ive heard that vegans have nutrition deficiencies because they do not get enough calcium/iron/zinc/vitamin b12 that is found in meats, due to cutting out meat.

It really is rather hard to find reliable sources that aren't biased toards veganism. There are vegan foods (such as soy / nut milks) enriched with calcium, iron, zinc etc. I've also heard that vitamin B12 deficiency is pretty common in most people, as it is really hard to find a true source of it because of the way foods are treated. I know people will say you don't have to, but I take vitamins and as far as I know, I don't have any deficiencies currently.


I also want to mention that I strongly agree with your point on people bringing up their carnivorous pets on a vegan diet, that truly boils my blood. It's pure and simply, neglect. The people who promote not hurting animals are killing their pets by bringing them up on unhealthy, and sometimes toxic diets. If you can't handle providing for your pets properly - you shouldn't have one, simple. Being vegan is your choice, not one to force on your dog. I read about people doing it constantly and it really makes me angry.

What are your favourite vegan/vegetarian foods?

I'm a massive fan of vegan junk foods, there's a restaurant close by that do the most amazing hot dogs and mac and cheese. I really like pizza, mushrooms, pasta, soups, anything with sweet potato in, and the "Fry's" brand of fake meats. Oh, and Vego chocotate.

 

[MorphiGalaxi]

Quorn are amazing! Not entirely sure if they are just a UK thing, though.

I've never heard of that, what is it? :3

 

[Bowie]

I've never heard of that, what is it? :3

It's basically just a brand that produce a lot of artificial meat. They do sausages, nuggets, burgers, pies, and all that sort of stuff. Really good.

 

[moonford]

I don't wanna turn this thread upside down so I'm just gonna leave it at what I said. I'm glad we can all discuss these sort of things civilly, nonetheless! Feel free to continue debating without me.



Quorn is amazing! Not entirely sure if they are just a UK thing, though.

I love Quorn! The "chicken" nuggets are fab. c:

Also if people intend to challenge peoples opinions on here, please leave. There is no point and you are knowingly provoking opposite mind sets and you will cause an argument which will lead to this great thread being closed, so please don't. This thread is amazing and helpful so it would suck if it was closed because you felt the need to stir things up.

Support and positive discussion is the aim of this thread so why disturb that happiness?

 

[MorphiGalaxi]

It's basically just a brand that produce a lot of artificial meat. They do sausages, nuggets, burgers, pies, and all that sort of stuff. Really good.

Oh I see, yeah I've never seen that where I live.

 

[Corrie]

You know all those soy products of mock meat? Like vegan/vegetarian fish sticks, chicken wings, breakfast sausages, etc? When you read the back of the box, there are tons of weird ingredients. How do you know which products are healthy without having to google every ingredient? This goes with any food, of course, not just vegan/vegetarian stuff.

 

[Bowie]

You know all those soy products of mock meat? Like vegan/vegetarian fish sticks, chicken wings, breakfast sausages, etc? When you read the back of the box, there are tons of weird ingredients. How do you know which products are healthy without having to google every ingredient? This goes with any food, of course, not just vegan/vegetarian stuff.

Become familiar with the brands. Look up information about them, and any ingredients you're worried about, look them up as well. You only have to do it once, and from then on you know what you're eating.

Quorn actually has a page on their website with some of their ingredients and descriptions of them, which is really handy!

 

[tumut]

I started drinking vegan water recently. I have to say it was a lot better than I expected!

 

[Soraru]

I love Quorn! The "chicken" nuggets are fab. c:

Also if people intend to challenge peoples opinions on here, please leave. There is no point and you are knowingly provoking opposite mind sets and you will cause an argument which will lead to this great thread being closed, so please don't. This thread is amazing and helpful so it would suck if it was closed because you felt the need to stir things up.

Support and positive discussion is the aim of this thread so why disturb that happiness?

if this post is indirectly aimed at me, then i assure you i have no intentions of provoking people. unless you personally felt provoked, know that im not doing it with the intent to provoke you. i, like anyone else is stating my opinion in a civil manner without belitting or demonizing the other's mindset. no one here is starting an argument here, and everyone on the controversial topic spoke out their sides in a civil and non personal matter. and i agree, there is no need to stir things up that aren't happening.

 

[moonford]

if this post is indirectly aimed at me, then i assure you i have no intentions of provoking people. unless you personally felt provoked, know that im not doing it with the intent to provoke you. i, like anyone else is stating my opinion in a civil manner without belitting or demonizing the other's mindset. no one here is starting an argument here, and everyone on the controversial topic spoke out their sides in a civil and non personal matter. and i agree, there is no need to stir things up that aren't happening.

It's just for future preference, threads go down hill with a click of the fingers simply because people state their innocent opinions (like you) and then other people do not like those opinions so they start to bash and belittle other people.

I think it's best to keep our opinions to ourselves just in case somebody takes it the wrong way, people aren't very accepting unfortunately. I don't have any problems with your opinion, we are all free to have our own but sometimes it's best to keep it to ourselves especially when it's in a controversial thread like this one but it doesn't have to be if we just keep quiet. c:

And I didn't think you had any intentions to start an argument, sorry if it seemed that way.

 

[Brookie]

I started drinking vegan water recently. I have to say it was a lot better than I expected!

This sounds like mockery, tbh. That's not very respectful.

 

[Soraru]

It's just for future preference, threads go down hill with a click of the fingers simply because people state their innocent opinions (like you) and then other people do not like those opinions so they start to bash and belittle other people.

I think it's best to keep our opinions to ourselves just in case somebody takes it the wrong way, people aren't very accepting unfortunately. I don't have any problems with your opinion, we are all free to have our own but sometimes it's best to keep it to ourselves especially when it's in a controversial thread like this one but it doesn't have to be if we just keep quiet. c:

And I didn't think you had any intentions to start an argument, sorry if it seemed that way.

its fine. i think we all handled it really well. careful with wording and clarifying what our intentions are and arent. so i think its all good.

 

[moonford]

its fine. i think we all handled it really well. careful with wording and clarifying what our intentions are and arent. so i think its all good.

Yeah, it's just when people don't mean to start arguments they happen anyway. This forum and the users are victims of this all the time and it's annoying to see.

I appreciate you guys being reasonable unlike other people. c: