[deleted]

[VanitasFan26]

[deleted]

 

[Croconaw]

I don’t really care, honestly. I think there’s a lot of division happening now and we just need to come together. There are so many things now that you’re forced to pick a side and it becomes your identity. You should be judged based on your character and how you treat others. Not based on your political stances or identity.

 

[tomatospooks666]

i mean? i've not really noticed a 'gender divide' or anything like that myself. frankly, anyone who talk about gender like it's black and white, male or female and those two being completely different nauseate me anyway. gender is a lot more of a spectrum and it shouldn't dictate your entire life and personality.

I don’t really care, honestly. I think there’s a lot of division happening now and we just need to come together. There are so many things now that you’re forced to pick a side and it becomes your identity. You should be judged based on your character and how you treat others. Not based on your political stances or identity.

you know, 'cept when your political stances include literally being against the basic human rights for marginalized groups just because they're different...

 

[skarmoury]

nevermind im tired.

 

[Violet Witch]

Here in the UK women have been vocalising their anger at a gender divide between men and women when it comes to simply walking the streets at night. After the high profile case of Sarah Everard women began sharing their stories on social media about how they have to be more vigilant when they're on their own whether it's in broad daylight or out and about at night. I've read so many stories of women carrying their keys in between their fingers, faking a call to seem less vulnerable or constantly changing their journey on foot in order to feel safe especially when they feel like they're being followed. So many men didn't realise how privileged they are not to have the same fear that us women have on a daily basis and one that should never exist to begin with. Obviously there are some atrocious women out there who have done appalling things to men but this is just one small of why many women feel like there is still a gender divide.

 

[michealsmells]

I wasnt gonna comment on this but ahhh. Excuse any weird grammar or anything I just woke up.

There has always been a gender divide. This kind of thing you're seeing has happened through all of history: women speaking the heck up against being literally oppressed. Women's right to vote in the US comes to mind the quickest, in which that fight went on for DECADES if not longer, not only here but all over the world.
Talvi also raises a good point. The UK is a nightmare. I was essentially an auditory witness to a friend almost getting kidnapped IN HER OWN HOME over a discord call after just wanting to walk to the pharmacy, and this was after she told me the abhorrent things that were happening in her town that she had been telling me for WEEKS.

No wonder women are wary of men. And I get it, "not all men" but it's not about that. We understand that statement and we are past that. It is that some men can and will attempt to hurt women, who are traditionally seen as weaker, and women are trying to stick up for themselves because they have the platform to. They are not immune to being harmed because of this either (just look at the entirety of the US South and whatever the hell is going on there).

This is a semi-related thought, but I beg you to look up sexist ads from the like 40s-60s. You wanna talk abt a gender divide? People in the 50s were at one another's throats man.

This idea also doesn't include trans and nonbinary people though. Gender is not just male and female and literally every "group" of people in the world has some reason to hate all the other ones- usually valid, mostly blown out if proportion.

 

[xSuperMario64x]

(this isn't really relevant to the topic at hand)

Spoiler

I've honestly not been paying attention. I don't participate in anything like this, as a nb person I like to see the positives in both men and women and I celebrate them all ☺

though I get that women are often afraid of men, and nb/trans people are often scared of everyone. I'm very sensitive so even I feel intimidated sometimes. I'm not very big/tall either (though I can be deceptively strong). I'm lucky enough that, outside of one incident where someone tried to take advantage of me, I've never had issues with men. but I fear for myself because I am openly trans, I haven't yet had anyone bring it up but I'll just wait for the day when some old guy makes threats at me abt it.

also if men are afraid of being accused maybe they should tell their fellow guys to stop being so rude/overbearing against women and trans folk all the time

 

[daringred_]

much like, talvi, my mind also immediately jumped to the sarah everard case here in the UK at the title of this thread. men don't know how privileged they are, being able to go out at night and do whatever they please without the same level of fear -- if any -- of being attacked. my brother and his (largely male) friends are always out at night, from 10PM to midnight and sometimes later. i would never have even dared -- not now and not at his age either. i recently had my own kidnapping/assault scare when walking through the city center to meet my mom. when i stopped at the entrance of the underpass at the sight of a guy approaching on a bike, he did a 180 halfway through and cycled back the way he'd came. then, when i started walking under, he reappeared around the corner after circling back and started approaching the underpass again. i've never turned around so fast in my life and quickly (but calmly) walked out and up the nearby stairs to the busy road. it was terrifying. this was in the middle of the day, and on top of that, i spent the entire walk beforehand making sure i was in sight of multiple people at all times just in case. could he have been harmless and genuinely lost? maybe, but then maybe not, and it was not a chance worth taking.

when i was around 7, a male classmate tried to sexually assault me in the girl's bathroom. in highschool, my male classmate would constantly call me names, kick/hit me and was generally just unpleasant (opening my bag in the corridor, taking my notebook etc.) and when i tried to report it, i was just told "oh, it's because he has a crush on you," as if that somehow justified his behavior. if the reverse had happened, i would have been pulled from class and questioned lmao. a few years before that, my bully's older brother threatened to kill me, and none of the teachers believed me or took it seriously. just this summer, i was sat outside a shop waiting for my mom and sister, and this old man sitting in his car parked along the curb leered at me non-stop for a full 10 minutes until my sister left the shop early and stood in front of me to block his view. what's grosser still is that i'm regularly mistaken for being aged 14-16, so it's safe to assume he thought i was underage, and yet-

obviously it's "not all men" but the problem is that we don't know which men, so it might as well be. in 2018, 149 women were killed by men in the UK. 149. that's one woman roughly every 2.5 days. so far this year, at least 129 UK women have been killed by men (or had a man as the principal suspect), and that's during a pandemic. just last week, a 12 year old girl was stabbed to death by a group of teenage boys at a christmas lights turn-on. the idea that women are suddenly overpowering men is... absurd, frankly, with stats like this.

 

[EmmaFrost]

"As a guy, I honestly don't really care" lol that's part of the entire problem, but go off. Women don't feel safe. Everyone should care about that.

 

[Byngo]

I’ll preface this by saying this is merely an observation, im not targeting anyone here. ive seen and heard the ops sentiment popping up a lot recently, which i can understand to a degree… but then i can’t help but roll my eyes when i consider that men amongst themselves have said gross things about women for centuries, and its dismissed as harmless locker room talk. but suddenly when woman start doing the same thing to men it’s a societal problem that should be addressed… I think if anyone’s gonna condemn woman speaking negatively of men, they must also acknowledge and condemn the other way around

 

[VanitasFan26]

[deleted]

 

[EmmaFrost]

Don't misunderstand I am not like one of those guys who ignores what woman goes through. I get what Sexual harassment is and I understand it good. The main issue I have is when Woman try to think every guy in the world as if they are all the same.

#notallmen etc etc.

 

[daringred_]

Don't misunderstand I am not like one of those guys who ignores what woman goes through. I get what Sexual harassment is and I understand it good. The main issue I have is when Woman try to think every guy in the world as if they are all the same.

obviously it's "not all men" but the problem is that we don't know which men, so it might as well be.

 

[Corrie]

I don't know about the recent stuff but overall, there's always been issues. The oversexualization of women in media and irl (it is WAY more often than with men. I hate when men claim they're sexualized too. Like yes, but it's FAR less often. Do you see men getting catcalled, whistled at, randomly hit on, been given disgusting comments? I've had all that directed at me), pink tax, wage difference, general thought of being weaker or more stupid than men, the whole "*****y women" thing, lame period jokes, lack of safety (I constantly am worried while walking down the street of getting attacked).

Yes, it's not all men, but as daringred put it, I don't know which men are safe and which aren't and since things like that happen often enough to be concerned about, I'm weary of all.

The saying 'boys be boys' makes me wanna punch something. Everyone needs to stop justifying crappy behaviour towards women.

Also it makes me laugh when people get all up in arms about 'strong women' portrayed in media. You mean a woman who isn't just some weak damsel in distress who's only purpose is to fulfill your sexual need or do your housework? Crazy!

Men have their issues too, but right now, imo, women need more help.

 

[VanitasFan26]

[deleted]

 

[Chris]

Hi all! Going to hop in here just to remind everyone to please try to discuss this topic constructively and respectfully. This means:

• Explaining your perspective calmly and rationally. People don't respond well to aggression.
• Avoid belittling, mocking, and attacking other people or engaging in similar antisocial behaviour. Shouting down the other person won't make them want to listen to you!
• Taking the time to properly consider the other person's point of view before you respond, rather than solely hammering your own views. In a debate you should always be prepared to fully listen to the other speaker - especially if that person has personal/life experience relevant to the discussion that you yourself might not have.

One way to approach someone with an opposing viewpoint to your own is to imagine that you are speaking to a close friend or family member and then tailoring your tone and word choice appropriately. Discussions with the potential to change the way another person thinks tend to come from a place of mutual respect rather than contempt.

We'll be keeping an eye on this thread, but if you spot any posts that aren't constructive to a healthy discussion then please hit the report button and it'll summon one of us to take a look.

 

[daringred_]

I had a recent argument with my friend was a guy who said that "Oh girls are too sensitive they always whine about everything" and I said something like "Look dude, woman go through a lot of issues and there is a good reason why don't trust a lot of guys, but I just don't like when other guys try to make others look bad" The point I am trying to say is that I understand why woman need help and I get that, but the one thing I do not appreciate is woman trying to think all guys in the world are just as bad. I was bullied in High school for being a guy and every woman assumed that I was a stalker just because I looked at them.

Its no wonder why men recently have been avoiding woman because they are in fear of being labeled as "Stalkers". This is such a complicated and sensitive issue when you're trying to understand both sides and the funny thing is both genders understand sexual harassment, but the problem is that the #MeToo Movement created a "Grey Area" where woman feel the need to go after every men who wronged them even it means "Little things" Like a guy shaking hands with a woman or just having a simple conversation.

as corrie and i have both already stated, a lot of women tend to think "all guys in the world are just as bad" because there is no way for them to separate the "good" men from the "bad" ones. say you have a bowl of skittles. one of them is poisonous but looks no different to the rest. would you still eat any of the skittles in the bowl? no, probably not. same thing here. i'm sorry you were bullied in highschool just for "being a guy", but i've seen and heard of multiple young girls being called derogatory terms simply for the way they dress or because they dated multiple boys -- and that's ignoring the societal pressures placed on girls from a very young age when it comes to beauty standards (makeup, shaving etc.) and how they are sexualized even with regards to their own school uniforms. bullying based on "gender" unfortunately goes both ways, so it doesn't add evidence to a "gender divide".

the fact that you seem to care more about how women perceive men as a general group than how unsafe women feel, however, is part of the problem. i've personally never seen something as petty as the me too movement being used to admonish men for something as harmless as a handshake or pleasant conversation,(although i know from experience that those can be used as precursors to harassment from men), and it's worth noting that false accusations of sexual assault/harassment etc. hurt women just as much as they do men because it makes genuine victims less likely to be believed.

 

[VanitasFan26]

[deleted]

 

[michealsmells]

I respect all woman equally, I get what they go through and why they don't trust all men in general which is valid and understandable, but again what I don't agree with is when Woman try to go after every single guy "even the nice ones who have nothing against woman" and feel need to call them "Stalkers" just because they want to feel more empowered. It is not okay and it creates this social norm that is happening more often.

I dont think this has to do with a gender divide. I think this has to do with some people being jerks.

 

[Corrie]

(sigh) I not trying to sound like ungrateful or feel like I am attacking woman. I am just saying that I don't like it when woman attack guys as like they feel the need to do it to protect themselves. I mean is it that hard to even get along with woman and you try to treat the with respect, but the moment you like get closer to them they start to get sensitive? Some girl at school framed me as like I was the one who was talking woman when it was another guy who lied to them saying that I was the one being the stalker.

How can you say that I understanding woman is "part of the problem"? Let me clear this up because apparently some are taking what I say out of context and using it against me. I respect all woman equally, I get what they go through and why they don't trust all men in general which is valid and understandable, but again what I don't agree with is when Woman try to go after every single guy "even the nice ones who have nothing against woman" and feel need to call them "Stalkers" just because they want to feel more empowered. It is not okay and it creates this social norm that is happening more often.

The skittle analogy above is exactly why this behaviour exists. Assuming all men are creeps and out to get you isn't right, I agree, but it's happened so many times to me and lots of others that it's the body's natural reaction and self defense now. It's sad it has to be that way, but I think the creeps making it like this is where your frustrations should be toward.