Are you proud of being an american?

[Duzzel]

I would like to intercede despite how thoroughly I'm enjoying the discourse.

I mentioned before how much I adore my country given its heterogeneity, and even though I would emphatically denounce some of the views here, I would like to call attention to how many views there are - and how great it is that we can express them.

Now I will always denounce bigotry or any form of oppression, but I find it incredibly interesting how people view what the US is "all about". For me, it's diversity, open-mindedness, and progress. But I can appreciate other views that value self-improvement, tradition, or integrity.
Unfortunately, US society has devolved into a bipartisan structure that, as many people have mentioned, puts us in black or white scenarios. This would be easily combated with more insightful political activism, but I digress.

There needs to be recognition that (generally) no one is truly ashamed of being born in this country. I just hope we end this discussion recognizing that US citizens do care about what happens to this country, I just hope it ends up the way I want it, lol

how could you be proud to live in a nation that thinks the correct way to try Vegemite is on a spoon?

Honestly, the all-or-nothing attitude of an American shouldn't be too surprising.

 

[jcamac45]

I would like to intercede despite how thoroughly I'm enjoying the discourse.

I mentioned before how much I adore my country given its heterogeneity, and even though I would emphatically denounce some of the views here, I would like to call attention to how many views there are - and how great it is that we can express them.

Now I will always denounce bigotry or any form of oppression, but I find it incredibly interesting how people view what the US is "all about". For me, it's diversity, open-mindedness, and progress. But I can appreciate other views that value self-improvement, tradition, or integrity.
Unfortunately, US society has devolved into a bipartisan structure that, as many people have mentioned, puts us in black or white scenarios. This would be easily combated with more insightful political activism, but I digress.

There needs to be recognition that (generally) no one is truly ashamed of being born in this country. I just hope we end this discussion recognizing that US citizens do care about what happens to this country, I just hope it ends up the way I want it, lol



Honestly, the all-or-nothing attitude of an American shouldn't be too surprising.

EXACTLY!!!!
I actually enjoy these types of threads, not going to lie.

 

[Primarina]

I'd move if I could afford it.

Good, hopefully you'll be able to afford it soon.

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Where would you move, by the way? I'm dying to know where you think is so much better than the U.S.

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That is because we do think that America could be great. Pointing out the problems in your country does not translate to hate. It only means you are aware of the problems that should be changed by the people in power. That is why you vote after doing your research about the candidates that will be representing you in government. And no! You definitely don't want people to leave this country. The US is a country of immigrants. That is how it was founded. By pointing out the problems, you are critically thinking on ways of how to make this country better and not the same as the world. Is racism ok with you? how about police brutality and mass incarceration? or the government deciding what women should and should not do to their bodies? It is important to stay politically active in these things so we don't make the US a dictatorship country like N. Korea for example.

I do want people who actually hate this country to leave it. I don't disagree that one can criticize problems in their country without hating it (I hate our current president, for example, but that doesn't mean I hate this country. I actually hate him because I love this country.), however if you think America is uniquely racist or has a unique level of racism or police brutality, you're kidding yourself.

Of course racism is not ok with me. Of course actual police brutality is not ok with me. Of course people being imprisoned for non-violent drug crimes, or as you call it "mass incarceration", is not ok with me. However, being against abortion is not about "deciding what women should and should not do with their bodies", it is about not letting a doctor end the life of an unborn person in utero (but that is a whole other issue we'd be best not to get into and just agree to disagree on as I don't care to get into that debate). I am all for people staying politically active, and I do not want us to become a dictatorship any more than you do, but if you think China, where you've said you want to move, is better than the US, then you're just an idiot.

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Definitely, America is and will always be the greatest country in the world! Now that we have President Trump in office, the country is only gonna get better

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Exactly, well said.

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Sad but true, people try to pin racism and slavery on America alone, but fail to realize it was something that happened everywhere. People who use those kind of excuses for hatting America really need to take some history lessons.

Thanks for agreeing with me, but I am going to have to disagree with you on Trump, who I think is a traitor.

 

[animalcrisscross]

The US is a country of immigrants.

we're a country of Americans actually.

Not American, but I've never really managed to wrap my head around the concept of nationalism. I like living in Ireland, but I don't feel any exceptional amount of pride in the country; it's just where I happened to be born and where I happen to live.

i think some people are getting pride and nationalism mixed up and it's a big distinction. nationalism has pretty much become a dirty word at this point. the modern definition of a "nationalist" has morphed into someone who believes their country/race is superior to all others for arbitrary reasons. being proud of your country doesn't necessitate a sense of superiority. in fact, i doubt many nationalists are proud of the country because they hate immigrants so much and, in their minds, immigrants have been invading America or whatever.

that's the problem these days. any Trump supporter or even just anyone who disagrees with extreme leftist views are labelled alt-right nationalists. there is middle ground. as others have said, everything isn't black and white. if you view things in black and white terms you will never be satisfied.

all of us just happened to be born where ever we were born. but we also all just happened to have whatever parents that we had too. i'm sure if you had a parent that raised you right, you are proud of them for it despite them not being perfect parents all the time. just because we are randomly put into situations doesn't mean we can't be prideful of them. if you're a parent, i'm sure you want your kids to be proud of you. and yes there are some bad parents out there that some probably aren't so proud of.

it's the same thing when it comes to countries. there are good ones and bad ones. if you can't be proud of being an American i don't see how you could be proud of any other nation either. there's no country that at some point hasn't done something terrible. choosing to ignore the good and focus only on the bad is a miserable way to live and i'm not sorry for choosing not to worry about crap in the past i can do nothing about. i acknowledge it and learn from it but i'm not so conceited that i'll say it's all unforgivable.

there are issues all over the Western world today but America is so overly criticized by foreigners and its own citizens, more so than any other country. what makes America better is that it can take all that criticism and progress. we're criticized so heavily, and some problems are so exaggerated, that people get this idea that America sucks simply because it has so many critics. it's crazy. Europe is being terrorized to all hell and people rip on America for petty bull****. i don't understand it honestly.

tl;dr everyone's just jelly of America.

 

[jcamac45]

Good, hopefully you'll be able to afford it soon.

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Where would you move, by the way? I'm dying to know where you think is so much better than the U.S.

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I do want people who actually hate this country to leave it. I don't disagree that one can criticize problems in their country without hating it (I hate our current president, for example, but that doesn't mean I hate this country. I actually hate him because I love this country.), however if you think America is uniquely racist or has a unique level of racism or police brutality, you're kidding yourself.

Of course racism is not ok with me. Of course actual police brutality is not ok with me. Of course people being imprisoned for non-violent drug crimes, or as you call it "mass incarceration", is not ok with me. However, being against abortion is not about "deciding what women should and should not do with their bodies", it is about not letting a doctor end the life of an unborn person in utero (but that is a whole other issue we'd be best not to get into and just agree to disagree on as I don't care to get into that debate). I am all for people staying politically active, and I do not want us to become a dictatorship any more than you do, but if you think China, where you've said you want to move, is better than the US, then you're just an idiot.

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Thanks for agreeing with me, but I am going to have to disagree with you on Trump, who I think is a traitor.

I don't think the US is uniquely racist. I actually lived in Mexico for 20 years. There is also a lot of racism in Mexico, and I always pointed that out, protested, and called my representatives while living there. To do that is actually very dangerous over there, and had to move to the US at some point, since I am a citizen. Currently living in the US, I am pointing out the racism that exists here, and would love for a first world country to erradicate it entirely. So that's what everyone should do, instead of getting offended for people pointing that out.

Well I'm glad to hear you dislike racism and hate Trump and think both should go away from the US. That is really the whole point of my argument .

I would like to move to China because in China there is more opportunity for my research funding. Currently the president cut substantial funds to the scientific community, mine among other ones. In terms of research, China is going to get better than the US because of what the current president is ridiculously proposing. China does have a lot of funding for research. So saying China is better than the US alone is too vague to even argue about.

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we're a country of Americans actually.



i think some people are getting pride and nationalism mixed up and it's a big distinction. nationalism has pretty much become a dirty word at this point. the modern definition of a "nationalist" has morphed into someone who believes their country/race is superior to all others for arbitrary reasons. being proud of your country doesn't necessitate a sense of superiority. in fact, i doubt many nationalists are proud of the country because they hate immigrants so much and, in their minds, immigrants have been invading America or whatever.

that's the problem these days. any Trump supporter or even just anyone who disagrees with extreme leftist views are labelled alt-right nationalists. there is middle ground. as others have said, everything isn't black and white. if you view things in black and white terms you will never be satisfied.

all of us just happened to be born where ever we were born. but we also all just happened to have whatever parents that we had too. i'm sure if you had a parent that raised you right, you are proud of them for it despite them not being perfect parents all the time. just because we are randomly put into situations doesn't mean we can't be prideful of them. if you're a parent, i'm sure you want your kids to be proud of you. and yes there are some bad parents out there that some probably aren't so proud of.

it's the same thing when it comes to countries. there are good ones and bad ones. if you can't be proud of being an American i don't see how you could be proud of any other nation either. there's no country that at some point hasn't done something terrible. choosing to ignore the good and focus only on the bad is a miserable way to live and i'm not sorry for choosing not to worry about crap in the past i can do nothing about. i acknowledge it and learn from it but i'm not so conceited that i'll say it's all unforgivable.

there are issues all over the Western world today but America is so overly criticized by foreigners and its own citizens, more so than any other country. what makes America better is that it can take all that criticism and progress. we're criticized so heavily, and some problems are so exaggerated, that people get this idea that America sucks simply because it has so many critics. it's crazy. Europe is being terrorized to all hell and people rip on America for petty bull****. i don't understand it honestly.

tl;dr everyone's just jelly of America.

"We are a country of Americans"
Actually animalcrisscross, America is not only the US. I remind you that America consists of Mexico, Canada, Cuba, PuertoRico, all of South America.
And even before the Europeans started colonizing to what now is known as the US, there were Native American tribes like the Lakotas, Apaches, Sioux, etc. So indeed, America IS an immigrant country.

 

[animalcrisscross]

I don't think the US is uniquely racist. I actually lived in Mexico for 20 years. There is also a lot of racism in Mexico, and I always pointed that out, protested, and called my representatives while living there. To do that is actually very dangerous over there, and had to move to the US at some point, since I am a citizen. Currently living in the US, I am pointing out the racism that exists here, and would love for a first world country to erradicate it entirely. So that's what everyone should do, instead of getting offended for people pointing that out.

Well I'm glad to hear you dislike racism and hate Trump and think both should go away from the US. That is really the whole point of my argument .

I would like to move to China because in China there is more opportunity for my research funding. Currently the president cut substantial funds to the scientific community, mine among other ones. In terms of research, China is going to get better than the US because of what the current president is ridiculously proposing. China does have a lot of funding for research. So saying China is better than the US alone is too vague to even argue about.

what "racism" are you even talking about? the China vs. America argument isn't vague. just about anyone would be better off in America. you'll make more money over there? great. actually living there will be hell though.

"We are a country of Americans"
Actually animalcrisscross, America is not only the US. I remind you that America consists of Mexico, Canada, Cuba, PuertoRico, all of South America.
And even before the Europeans started colonizing to what now is known as the US, there were Native American tribes like the Lakotas, Apaches, Sioux, etc. So indeed, America IS an immigrant country.

we are a country of Unitedstatesians*

 

[-Apples-]

Well I don't see how I am liberal for pointing out the issues occurring in this country.
I don't follow parties.. Republicans? Liberals? They are all the same if none of the two parties are actually standing for the people.
To me that is one of the problems we have in the US. It is either white or black... never gray, when in reality, the world has different tones of gray. We need to think things more critically and develop our own opinions through research and reason. By the way, I don't consider myself anti-liberal nor liberal. I consider myself human and speak with humanitarian ideas backed by science.

And I am glad you did your research on pointing out those issues. See? pointing out the problem does not mean you hate the country. It only means you are aware of the problems and could think of ways of making the country better by making those changes.

You may not be conservative or liberal, but you said that white people have privileges others don't have (well what you said sounded like it). Those who actually claim that there is a white privilege, straight privilege, or male privilege seems to be leaning closer to the Democrats. There is no social advantage of being white. There is no social disadvantage of being black or hispanic. There is no social advantage of being male. There is no social disadvantage of being female. Nobody have any privileges based on race or sex. We are all the same. Yet, minority groups and women face unique obstacles white people and men don't have to face because of our racist and sexist history. And yet, racism still exists. But to say that America is racist as a whole, anything that lacks diversity is considered racist, or to say that white people get the perks because of their skin, that's not acceptable. In fact, invoking the white privilege (which is basically shaming them for being white instead of their other characteristics) is an evil thing to do. I understand that it's not fair that we demonize african americans when they do the same bad stuff (or half as bad) white people do (and it's still happening), the reverse is true too. When a white person does something a non-white person doesn't like, the media always throws in racism, sometimes ignoring the actual story behind it.

Basically, I don't see white privilege or male privilege. I don't see non-white people or women as underprivileged. I only see good and evil. I do see how all races are unequal right now, but the reasons why they're unequal isn't even about race. It's about human nature.

 

[Byebi]

to answer op's question

not really
the ignorant stereotypes of americans makes me feel guilty
i wish we paid more attention to the other worldly problems and not just focus on our own issues. like during the elections everyone tunes in on whats going on to us but we rarely hear anything about the affairs of other countries?
and of course with all the political mess going on,,, i'd rather be associated w something else.

 

[Bowie]

Black people face fears that I could only imagine. As a white male, I would never ever compare my social issues or my cultural relevance to theirs. I would never pretend to understand what they have to go through.

 

[ApolloJusticeAC]

well i'm not gonna say: "i'm not american!!!!" in public or in resumes.

i'm proud to say it at least

 

[nintendofan85]

I was, but Trump often makes me feel ashamed...

 

[oliversacnl]

Yeah, I'm pretty ashamed of the United States. We're full of hypocrites.

I was thinking of moving away simply because I didn't want to fund terrorist groups. We're notorious for arming Islamic groups like al-Qaeda, then saying that Muslims are dangerous, violent people. *eyeroll*

Whew... glad I got that out of my system, haha.

But yeah, the USA has some pretty terrible history. I mean, many other places do too (like Germany and Japan, for obvious reasons), but I think that we're the one place that doesn't learn from our mistakes. It's like... it seems like the past just keeps repeating. I dunno.

At least I can get gay married, I guess.