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Basic Forms of Government (by Storm)

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A lesson in government and American government written by me. This isn't something you'd be taught in the failing public education system. You may be surprised about the confusion that has been spread by false notions of "democracy" and how America was founded.

Let's start by defining five basic forms of government: Monarchy (rule by one), Oligarchy (rule by a small elite group), Democracy (rule by majority), Republic (rule by law), and Anarchy (no government). We can make this list even shorter.

Monarchy can be removed from the list because there is never only one person. Dictators have their bureaucrats, monarchs have their nobles, etc. A dictator is simply the face of a powerful few. Therefore these forms of government are actually Oligarchies, which is and has always been the most common form of government (Nazi Germany, Red China, the Soviet Union, Saudi Arabia, etc.).

Let's look at the other side: Anarchy. Since people have found that governments have caused history's worst crimes they advocate no government. When people are unhappy with their current form of government, they may riot against it and overthrow it. But what happens next is chaos, restricted movement, violence, etc. The people then turn to the very thing they tried to abolish in order to stop the chaos: more government. Therefore, anarchy is temporary and allows a powerful few (Oligarchy) to come to power.

Democracy is rule by the majority. This may sound ideal, but what happens if the majority decides to take away your money, your property, your business, or even your children? Democracy results in tyranny of the majority. There is no restraint. We will come back to this form of government later.

A true Republic is where the government is limited by the law, so the people are left alone. This is the form of government that was set up by America's founding fathers. After the Constitutional Convention, a women asked Benjamin Franklin, "sir, what have you given us?" He replied, "A republic, if you can keep it." In a republic life, liberty, and property is protected by the law. A powerful group or a majority of people cannot repudiate these rights. The limitations on the Unites States federal government is The Constitution. The Bill of Rights clearly describes the things that the federal government "shall not" do. The 10th Amendment ends the Bill of Rights by saying if it's not mentioned in the Constitution, the government can't do it either.

Imagine if you were accused of murder. In a democracy the people would vote and decide if you should be punished. In a republic you have the right to a fair trial. Even the jury doesn't make decisions based on the majority. The rule of law must be followed. You may have considered America to be a democracy before. This is because the word is used, wrongly perhaps, as electing politicians.

A government becomes more like a Democracy when people realize they can use politicians to take something from one person and give it to someone else. As I'm sure you can guess, politicians and people with special interests become power hungry. Government becomes corrupt and society starts to crumble. People forget that government must be limited to protect liberty. Government then becomes bigger and bigger. Therefore, Democracy can also be removed from the list because it is a gradual transition from a Republic to an Oligarchy.

We are left with two basic forms of government: Oligarchy and Republic. If you truly care about protecting the principle of liberty that America was founded on, I suggest you learn more about this. If we look at America (and other countries) today, we can sadly see that it's on that gradual transition to Oligarchy and total government.
 
You described a direct democracy when we aim to have an indirect democracy. I believe in the Northeast, where you live, with the colonies they had very small direct democracies.

We have a somewhat mix between Plato's and Locke's philosophies of government...mostly Locke though.
 
Propaganda Man said:
You described a direct democracy when we aim to have an indirect democracy. I believe in the Northeast, where you live, with the colonies they had very small direct democracies.

We have a somewhat mix between Plato's and Locke's philosophies of government...mostly Locke though.
"Indirect democracy" was a word created to help differentiate between Democracy and representation. A Democracy in its original meaning is what you'd call a "direct democracy". And no, they didn't have direct democracies here. The word democrat was actually used as an insult by Washington, Adams, Jefferson, etc.
 
stormcommander said:
Propaganda Man said:
You described a direct democracy when we aim to have an indirect democracy. I believe in the Northeast, where you live, with the colonies they had very small direct democracies.

We have a somewhat mix between Plato's and Locke's philosophies of government...mostly Locke though.
"Indirect democracy" was a word created to help differentiate between Democracy and representation. A Democracy in its original meaning is what you'd call a "direct democracy". And no, they didn't have direct democracies here. The word democrat was actually used as an insult by Washington, Adams, Jefferson, etc.
I've read differently.
 
Anyway, here's a video of what I just said (and one of the things that helped me understand Constitutionalism / Republicanism)

http://www.youtube.com/v/TnQCDDHPoa4
 
stormcommander said:
Anyway, here's a video of what I just said (and one of the things that helped me understand Constitutionalism / Republicanism)

http://www.youtube.com/v/TnQCDDHPoa4
You agree that that video is filled with paleoconservatism, right? Despite whether you agree with it, it's a very biased video.

It also seems to not realize that democracies can have a constitution...as can monarchies and any other form of government.
 
Paleoconservatism? Biased? How?

If anything it's filled with Constitutionalism. It's not about left or right. It's about government or liberty.
 
stormcommander said:
Paleoconservatism? Biased? How?

If anything it's filled with Constitutionalism. It's not about left or right. It's about government or liberty.
The John Birch Society is a paleoconservatist society...
 
Propaganda Man said:
stormcommander said:
Paleoconservatism? Biased? How?

If anything it's filled with Constitutionalism. It's not about left or right. It's about government or liberty.
The John Birch Society is a paleoconservatist society...
They are an old right conservative and classical liberal group. Who cares? Are you saying it's biased because they think the Constitution should be followed and liberty should be preserved? Do you actually disagree with something in the video? You haven't made an argument, so I would assume you agree with it.
 
stormcommander said:
Propaganda Man said:
stormcommander said:
Paleoconservatism? Biased? How?

If anything it's filled with Constitutionalism. It's not about left or right. It's about government or liberty.
The John Birch Society is a paleoconservatist society...
They are an old right conservative and classical liberal group. Who cares? Are you saying it's biased because they think the Constitution should be followed and liberty should be preserved? Do you actually disagree with something in the video? You haven't made an argument, so I would assume you agree with it.
I'm simply stating that it is biased and should be taken with a grain of sand. The video, in 9 or so minutes, is telling me what does and doesn't work....
 
Propaganda Man said:
stormcommander said:
Propaganda Man said:
stormcommander said:
Paleoconservatism? Biased? How?

If anything it's filled with Constitutionalism. It's not about left or right. It's about government or liberty.
The John Birch Society is a paleoconservatist society...
They are an old right conservative and classical liberal group. Who cares? Are you saying it's biased because they think the Constitution should be followed and liberty should be preserved? Do you actually disagree with something in the video? You haven't made an argument, so I would assume you agree with it.
I'm simply stating that it is biased and should be taken with a grain of sand. The video, in 9 or so minutes, is telling me what does and doesn't work....
So do you believe the government should make decisions for people and centrally plan the economy? If so, you do not believe the Constitution should be followed.
 
stormcommander said:
Propaganda Man said:
stormcommander said:
Propaganda Man said:
stormcommander said:
Paleoconservatism? Biased? How?

If anything it's filled with Constitutionalism. It's not about left or right. It's about government or liberty.
The John Birch Society is a paleoconservatist society...
They are an old right conservative and classical liberal group. Who cares? Are you saying it's biased because they think the Constitution should be followed and liberty should be preserved? Do you actually disagree with something in the video? You haven't made an argument, so I would assume you agree with it.
I'm simply stating that it is biased and should be taken with a grain of sand. The video, in 9 or so minutes, is telling me what does and doesn't work....
So do you believe the government should make decisions for people and centrally plan the economy? If so, you do not believe the Constitution should be followed.
I'm experienced enough to know to look at each situation independently and move on from there.
 
I'm afraid all you're doing now is posting for the sake of arguing. You haven't made any real argument to the topic.

So... this would be a monarchy?

what would be?
 
stormcommander said:
I'm afraid all you're doing now is posting for the sake of arguing. You haven't made any real argument to the topic.
I'm arguing that the video is biased and that we live in, for the most part, an indirect democracy and we base our government mostly from Locke and a bit from Plato.
 
I'm arguing that the video is biased and that we live in, for the most part, an indirect democracy and we base our government mostly from Locke and a bit from Plato.

This isn't about any video. You read the topic. You agree or disagree. You explain. That's a discussion. I don't know what you're doing here.

This is the only thing of substance you have said: "we live in, for the most part, an indirect democracy," but you should explain what you mean and whether you think that's good or bad.
 
stormcommander said:
I'm arguing that the video is biased and that we live in, for the most part, an indirect democracy and we base our government mostly from Locke and a bit from Plato.

This isn't about any video. You read the topic. You agree or disagree. You explain. That's a discussion. I don't know what you're doing here.

This is the only thing of substance you have said: "we live in, for the most part, an indirect democracy," but you should explain what you mean and whether you think that's good or bad.
Not every argument is about "good" and "bad". Ever heard of metaphysics? You are arguing about what the American government is, to my understanding, and I'm telling you what I believe it is.
 
What I'm saying is you aren't contributing to the topic while posting here.
 
stormcommander said:
What I'm saying is you aren't contributing to the topic while posting here.
I may not be directly replying with JBS's 5 types of government but I am certainly contributing.

But you can easily see from my thread that I'm opposed to direct democracies. Indirect, since you want to know, are what I support.
 
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