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(sigh) I not trying to sound like ungrateful or feel like I am attacking woman. I am just saying that I don't like it when woman attack guys as like they feel the need to do it to protect themselves. I mean is it that hard to even get along with woman and you try to treat the with respect, but the moment you like get closer to them they start to get sensitive? Some girl at school framed me as like I was the one who was talking woman when it was another guy who lied to them saying that I was the one being the stalker.

How can you say that I understanding woman is "part of the problem"? Let me clear this up because apparently some are taking what I say out of context and using it against me. I respect all woman equally, I get what they go through and why they don't trust all men in general which is valid and understandable, but again what I don't agree with is when Woman try to go after every single guy "even the nice ones who have nothing against woman" and feel need to call them "Stalkers" just because they want to feel more empowered. It is not okay and it creates this social norm that is happening more often.

sorry, but i said you appearing to care more about women's perception of men over women's lack of ability to feel safe is part of the problem. which is true given everything you've stated above. several women have explained to you why a number of us hold this view, and you yourself claim to understand it, and yet you continue to push the idea that there's a gender divide (while also generalizing women despite seeming to have a problem with the reverse even though there's valid reason for it) based on instances that aren't particularly common. plenty of "nice ones" can turn on a dime or end up not being very nice at all, and i've experienced that myself in the past. i recently had a male highschool friend get into contact with me, and he's what i would've called a genuinely nice guy, but it turned out he was ultimately only interested in sleeping with me and stopped messaging me as soon as he realized i wasn't interested. (and this was after he repeatedly said a number of uncomfortably sexual things.)

i don't think calling men "stalkers" is a power move. of course there will always be people who overreact and/or misinterpret behavior, but that is not a female-exclusive trait, and acting as though it is adds to the problem too. (similarly, while there are extreme feminists who try to stick it to all men, there are also misogynists who claim women should stay in the kitchen or not be allowed to work etc.) given the statistics i mentioned previously, women have every right to be wary of men -- especially given that men you know are the ones most likely to kill/assault you. we've all seen the 'horror stories' of women who turn men down, say 'no' or give out fake numbers and wind up dead or in hospital. if a woman isn't interested in a man (either platonically or romantically) and that man continues acting overly flirtatious/affection/friendly, especially in spite of a woman's visible discomfort, then, yeah, it does come across as a little stalker-y. for example, i was once DM'ed on instagram by a total male (and much older) stranger. turned out he was clearly looking for something romantic/sexual. i blocked him. a day or two later, he messages me again on a different account. i told him to do one and blocked him again. fortunately, he didn't try a third time, but i would still classify him as "stalker-y". (and he isn't the only older male stranger who's messaged me unsolicited.) there's this dangerous idea among a lot of men that they are entitled to women. (or their bodies. whichever.) you say no, and you could wind up dead, so of course even a slightly above normal level of unwelcome interest can cause discomfort and, ultimately, make the woman feel stalked -- especially if it only continues and especially if that discomfort is obvious/verbalized.

again, like i said, i'm sure there are cases of women who accuse well-meaning men of stalking or throw out the insult of being a stalker, but as someone else said above, that's nothing to do with being a woman, that's to do with being a jerk. i think, instead of acting like this is some sort of deliberate coordinated attack against men, you should focus on
why a lot of women might feel like they're being stalked and address that instead. i'm confident that if less women were being murdered/assaulted by men, catcalled on the streets, genuinely stalked, scared of going out at night and/or saying no, you would also have a lot less women who feel uncomfortable around men and/or accusing them of stalking based on unwelcome advances etc.
 
I think of it this way: someone could tell you "not all dogs bite" but you're not just gonna trust any dog, since there is always a risk that it could bite especially if you dont know them. so it's safe to assume that every dog will bite until you get to know them. you're not being rude to the dogs who dont bite, you're just protecting yourself from the ones who do.
 
Me personally as a guy, I honestly don't really care.
Let me absolutely clear I treat woman with respect

If you do not care about the gender divide then you do not respect women.

Describing the #metoo movement as an inconvenience to men is so insulting - would you rather everyone affected continue to suffer and remain in silence? The movement is not 'just women', it's also about males describing their uncomfortable experiences too. It is not a gender exclusive movement. Please don't spread misinformation such as:

Its no wonder why men recently have been avoiding woman because they are in fear of being labeled as "Stalkers". This is such a complicated and sensitive issue when you're trying to understand both sides and the funny thing is both genders understand sexual harassment, but the problem is that the #MeToo Movement created a "Grey Area" where woman feel the need to go after every men who wronged them even it means "Little things" Like a guy shaking hands with a woman or just having a simple conversation.

'Women' do not feel the need to go after every man. Individuals who do this are held accountable, it's not expectable behaviour however the VAST majority involved within the movement do not do this. This is not what the movement is about. It's allowing individuals to have a voice, they have a right to talk about the awful things they have experienced and should not have to keep quiet about it. You seem to understand 'not all men', but it goes both ways - not all women are like what you're describing.

A main reason for backlash on your post is the wording, if you want to bring up such a sensitive topic then you need to be responsible for your wording, attitude and approach. A lot of the things I've said you may already know, but the way you're discussing things makes it appear differently and completely tone deaf, even if you don't mean to be.
 
For much of what you describe as being hurtful to you, I think blaming the MeToo movement, or anything new in society is incorrect.

the gendered stereotyping along the lines of ‘all women are x; all men are y” is very patriarchal, ala ‘men are from mars women are from Venus’. I grew up in the 90s and it was common place that men were treated as incompetent when it came to children, emotions, etc., and as if they were all uncontrolled sex maniacs. For example - I was asked to babysit for neighbors from age 12 on, but never knew any boys my age who were asked to babysit, both because they were assumed to have no interest in children and because interest by men and boys in children was viewed with suspicion.

I think that is what you are experiencing, and it really cuts both ways - for all that some of the stereotypes may seem to favor girls, they actually are still harmful - similar to how the ‘model minority’ myth is still harmful to East Asians.

As for MeToo, I tend to think - 1. A lot of the ‘fear’ described by men is performative. 2. If you honestly have to change your behavior at work as a result, you probably needed to do so long ago as well. I see people mention they can no longer hug coworkers, for example. That really does not belong in the workplace anyway, and yeah, you should cut it out and that’s not a bad thing. Rather than feel attacked by what women say about their experiences remember the point is not to say ‘all men do this’ but that all women do experience it. - just as I do not interpret your comment to mean that you feel all women are attacking men - you are trying to share your own experience.

although there is no movement or group where you will not see some jerks misappropriating language to be jerks, but I think falling into blaming the entire movement is not fair or productive.

I do feel for you; having assumptions or accusations leveled at one unfairly is never a good feeling and I am sure you felt very helpless and hurt, and I am sorry you have felt this way.
 
It’s not easy being a guy, I understand. Women are people we are not just a homogeneous group that you can understand.

This issue is bigger and women need safe spaces and protection in a way men can never fully understand. Decent men accept and will do what they can to understand.
 
I have a lot of things to say on this topic, but thinking about it too much makes my blood boil and I feel sick to my stomach. So I'll just tell you a little bit of my own experiences.

My boundaries have been overstepped so many times. I have been belittled, shouted at, mocked, catcalled, assaulted and blackmailed. Not once by a woman though (this doesn't mean that women are incapable of committing crimes and displaying similar behaviour. I just have yet to encounter it myself). I have lost count of the times men (and usually men significantly older than me) have walked up to me and after I have politely voiced my disinterest, they pushed and pushed and wouldn't take no for an answer. Often they displayed aggressive behaviour upon being rejected and I was scared for my life more than once. One guy even followed me home so that I had to keep walking and walking because I didn't want him to know where I live.

This is not about "boys are so silly and immature uwu" or "girls are just so much better". This is about not feeling safe when going out alone, and especially so when it's dark (to name only one aspect of life where women are not safe). I'm really glad it's being talked about and that women are stepping up and having their voices heard. Yes, there are lovely and respectful men out there. It's just that for every nice guy I meet, I come across five horrible ones. So all I can do is be cautious and avoid men whenever I can when I'm alone in public. My personal safety is so much more important than another person's fragile ego.
 
My boundaries have been overstepped so many times. I have been belittled, shouted at, mocked, catcalled, assaulted and blackmailed. Not once by a woman though (this doesn't mean that women are incapable of committing crimes and displaying similar behaviour. I just have yet to encounter it myself).

First off, I'm sorry and I can empathize. Second, EXACTLY. Not ONCE by a woman. But yeah, let's all focus on mens feelings instead of potentially protecting ourselves from danger, lol.
 
Okay one last thing I'll say and I have to put an end this because I've been such a fool. I am sorry for ever making this thread. I guess I made this out of frustration because I was bothered by this topic with my friend and it just kept creeping up in my mind that I felt the need to post it. Now I ended saying this that contradicted what I previously said and now its being used against me. I had an emotional breakdown and I just wanna I am sorry. I am sorry to everyone who was offended by my wording. I never meant to offend everyone and I am sorry if some were hurt and triggered by my actions. It was never my intention to make anyone feel uncomfortable, but now I realized that I just made a fool out of myself.

If anyone is mad at me they have to be because apparently I suck at even bringing up sensitive topics. I say one thing and then I say a different thing then it goes out of control. I regret starting this discussion and I am very sorry for all the people I have offended and of course my deplorable behavior. It was unprofessional, childish, and not the best way to approach a topic. I don't expect to be forgiven, but I just need to say this, just to close this out.
 
The whole "this is is why dating is so difficult" and "the MeToo movement exists for women to falsely accuse men" sounds like u have been eating up MGTOW or 'redpilled' rhetoric (whether u are conscious about doing this or not). From my experiences online and irl i have seen plenty of misogyny justified by sentences like that, so. I'm not saying it's intentional on ur part but it comes from those places.
I think a lot of ppl in this thread have made very good points already and now that u've heard some women talk abt their own experiences u can understand their viewpoints and situations better
 
Okay one last thing I'll say and I have to put an end this because I've been such a fool. I am sorry for ever making this thread. I guess I made this out of frustration because I was bothered by this topic with my friend and it just kept creeping up in my mind that I felt the need to post it. Now I ended saying this that contradicted what I previously said and now its being used against me. I had an emotional breakdown and I just wanna I am sorry. I am sorry to everyone who was offended by my wording. I never meant to offend everyone and I am sorry if some were hurt and triggered by my actions. It was never my intention to make anyone feel uncomfortable, but now I realized that I just made a fool out of myself.

If anyone is mad at me they have to be because apparently I suck at even bringing up sensitive topics. I say one thing and then I say a different thing then it goes out of control. I regret starting this discussion and I am very sorry for all the people I have offended and of course my deplorable behavior. It was unprofessional, childish, and not the best way to approach a topic. I don't expect to be forgiven, but I just need to say this, just to close this out.
Every day is day to learn something new.

This is also a very sensitive subject with a lot of layers to it that men will never fully understand. Women have been suppressed for far too long by men in general as the weaker sex. There are some that still think we should be seen and not heard rather than stand equally beside them. There are some who view us as nothing more then sexual objects who should be at their disposal for whenever they get the urge to itch that scratch as they say.

We are NOT any of that, we are women, we have voices, we deserve to feel safe around the opposite sex and we deserve equal rights to them as well. We’ll also keep fighting for those rights even if some are tired of our “whining and moaning” because it’s the only way in the hope that one day discussions about the gender divide will become a thing of the past.
 
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Just know for future reference that if you want to bring up such a sensitive and personal topic, especially one you don't have much personal experience with but others do, then you need to be open to their criticism and realize where you went wrong or overstepped. admitting you were wrong or didn't phrase something the way you meant to helps a lot, as well as apologizing. being open to criticism will help you grow and become more understanding/compassionate.
 
Just know for future reference that if you want to bring up such a sensitive and personal topic, especially one you don't have much personal experience with but others do, then you need to be open to their criticism and realize where you went wrong or overstepped. admitting you were wrong or didn't phrase something the way you meant to helps a lot, as well as apologizing. being open to criticism will help you grow and become more understanding/compassionate.
I understand and again I am sorry. God I feel like such an idiot.......
 
okay i initially deleted my post and ik the argument is basically over but i just wanna say something from experience to hopefully educate i guess

I have been groomed as a minor, manipulated into being intimate with an adult man who I later learned had lied to me multiple times in order to gain my trust. I have also been catcalled multiple times in my life which led me to feeling unsafe whenever I would walk home alone. These have given me trauma that I cannot take away anymore. I’m sure there are many nice men out there, y’know not all men, but because of the harrassment and manipulation that I’ve been through, I can’t help but feel unsafe and not trusting towards all older men who are strangers to me, because I fear I might get taken advantage of again. I’m generally someone who gives people a chance, but I hope you don’t invalidate why some women feel unsafe towards men, especially those they don’t know too well yet. With strangers, especially men, you never know who has the capability of inflicting violence or harrassment at the drop of a hat, and I think that’s terrifying.

This isn’t some silly ’gender divide’ thing; it’s years of history, of patriarchy asserting dominance against women in one way or another. As long as these behaviors of harrassment, violence, etc. are still present, the movement to provide justice and safe spaces for all victims cannot rest. I hope you understand that this is all more than shallow ‘wow I don’t like you, your gender’s stinky’ banter.

It would be nice if you also educated youself in your own time. People who say they cannot care at all for these issues disgust me.
 
I’m a guy, but I respect everyone regardless of their gender, sexual orientation, or other identifiers to be honest. I don’t think you can fight hate with more hate, it just doesn’t work. Only with kindness can you defeat hate. Going to second that being open to criticism is important and is key to learning. People who don’t keep an open mind and are resistant to change, will in fact, never change.
 
Hi all!

While we will never delete and/or close threads on request, nor to censor the thread starter's views, the latest (now deleted) posts in this thread have been either overstepping lines or entirely off-topic and to prevent this from continuing, this thread will remain locked from further replies.
 
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