Do you think people should be a bit nicer in Brewsters?

[Lackadaisy]

Even if they were, violence is still not acceptable. I think they have been getting violent because of how desperate they have gotten, but by doing this, it will get others being violent as well, which will continue dividing us apart.

I understand the ideal of saying fighting violence with violence is not the answer, but unfortunately there comes a point where that is the only option. When one side is advocating for the loss of rights (or even lives!) of certain groups, like the KKK does for example, they are beyond the point of being reasoned with. Their opinions are not just thoughts, but active threats and oftentimes direct actions against the people they oppose.

Fighting these groups can’t really divide us further, because the divide is already too big to ever be closed again. These white supremacist groups cannot be stopped by calmly debating them - they will continue to grow stronger, more numerous and dangerous the less opposition there is

 

[-Apples-]

I understand the ideal of saying fighting violence with violence is not the answer, but unfortunately there comes a point where that is the only option. When one side is advocating for the loss of rights (or even lives!) of certain groups, like the KKK does for example, they are beyond the point of being reasoned with. Their opinions are not just thoughts, but active threats and oftentimes direct actions against the people they oppose.

Fighting these groups can’t really divide us further, because the divide is already too big to ever be closed again. These white supremacist groups cannot be stopped by calmly debating them - they will continue to grow stronger, more numerous and dangerous the less opposition there is

You know, I don't support the KKK, Neo-Nazis, religious wingnuts, or white supremacists, but I do support the Republican Party on many issues. Antifa is targeting the Republican Party and its supporters more than they are targeting the true neo-Nazis. BLM is targeting police officers, including the police that don't believe in racial profiling. That's why I don't respect them. But the use of violence is uncivil no matter what. Even Martin Luther King didn't want people getting violent.

 

[seliph]

Of course the Neo-Nazis and white nationalists are the bad guys, but if they're being highly offensive on any forum, just report their posts and move on. Fighting back will make you just as bad.

I don't want to derail the topic to Nazis but I'm gonna just respond to this bit regarding neo-nazis VS their opposition:

Neo-Nazis, Nazis, Alt-Right, whatever new name they call themselves: Are fighting for the literal genocide of other races

Their opposition: Are fighting for the groups that neo-nazis want to die's safety, namely jewish people. This will never be "as bad".

I'm also not using "genocide" or "want to die" liberally here - these people are literally calling for ethnic cleansing.

 

[-Apples-]

I don't want to derail the topic to Nazis but I'm gonna just respond to this bit regarding neo-nazis VS their opposition:

Neo-Nazis, Nazis, Alt-Right, whatever new name they call themselves: Are fighting for the literal genocide of other races

Their opposition: Are fighting for the groups that neo-nazis want to die's safety, namely jewish people. This will never be "as bad".

I'm also not using "genocide" or "want to die" liberally here - these people are literally calling for ethnic cleansing.

I oppose Neo-Nazis too. But the reason why I am against some of the opponents is because they are against the Republican Party and its supporters too. They're not just against the Neo-Nazis. But it doesn't matter what their beliefs are. I'm against civil violence and wish the world can move on. The Neo-Nazis can face torture in prison.

 

[Lackadaisy]

You know, I don't support the KKK, Neo-Nazis, religious wingnuts, or white supremacists, but I do support the Republican Party on many issues. Antifa is targeting the Republican Party and its supporters more than they are targeting the true neo-Nazis. BLM is targeting police officers, including the police that don't believe in racial profiling. That's why I don't respect them. But the use of violence is uncivil no matter what. Even Martin Luther King didn't want people getting violent.

If and when they are targeting the Republican Party, it’s because the party has not done enough to show their opposition toward these hate groups. With groups like BLM and protesters being told by our president and other Republicans that they are just as bad as white supremacists, it’s understandable that they’re losing all faith in the government protecting their rights. The Republicans inaction in response to KKK activity can easily be interpreted as implicit condonement. And the thought that your own government doesn’t give a damn about your lives is enough to see them as another enemy.

I’m out after this too though, as this political discussion is fairly OT for the thread

 

[vel]

Not nicer, smarter. Know when you're upset, know when to step out and take a breather, know when to drop the conversation immediately. Being nice is good, but being nice isn't going to necessarily solve the problem. But back on topic, people could be a lot better about picking their "fights" for sure, many posts shouldn't be locked, but it ends up being locked because people can't seem to handle a strong opinion.

 

[visibleghost]

I oppose Neo-Nazis too. But the reason why I am against some of the opponents is because they are against the Republican Party and its supporters too. They're not just against the Neo-Nazis. But it doesn't matter what their beliefs are. I'm against civil violence and wish the world can move on. The Neo-Nazis can face torture in prison.

dont call people who want equal rights just as bad as nazis and people who support right wing extremists lol

 

[-Apples-]

If and when they are targeting the Republican Party, it’s because the party has not done enough to show their opposition toward these hate groups. With groups like BLM and protesters being told by our president and other Republicans that they are just as bad as white supremacists, it’s understandable that they’re losing all faith in the government protecting their rights. The Republicans inaction in response to KKK activity can easily be interpreted as implicit condonement. And the thought that your own government doesn’t give a damn about your lives is enough to see them as another enemy.

From my experience, they usually do this for childish reasons and not because the Republicans aren't punishing them enough. They get violent when the Republicans are trying to repeal Obamacare even when it's already a broken system. They get violent when the election didn't go their way when they were clearly bullying the right wingers that don't even support the alt-right. They get violent when a speaker with conservative views is going to speak when the conservative speaker isn't even trying to promote hatred. Antifa even hates people that do not want to follow their agenda. They aren't about fighting fascists anymore.

But the bottom line is, we all have to get along with each other no matter what. And if somebody chooses to be hateful or be violent (like the KKK or Antifa), they can go to jail or get punished while the rest lives in peace.

 

[Soraru]

This may be unnecessary because I’m not sure whether I’m one of the people coming across to you that way, but it was important enough for me to clarify just in case.

Whenever I say respect needs to come from both sides, I’m thinking of someone voicing an opinion based on lack of awareness or at worst ignorance. Once someone says that they “hate x people” or that “x people don’t deserve the same rights” that person has already shown disrespect, no matter how politely they’ve said it. I’d never expect anyone to coddle them.

And again, aggressive opposition is justified and necessary in many situations. I was just pointing out that attacking someone for a minor (often unintentional) offense will not lead to a change in their behavior

what i said about coming off as softer version of trumps "blame both sides" isnt directed at you, or any individual person who happens to say that. im addressing the words, and the context behind it.

im sure there are well-meaning people out there who isn't really involved or awake in whats going on, or maybe they are, but whatever they are, they're just sick of violence and unrest. i get that, and good for them. ppl who want human rights for themselves or others are sick of it too, the difference is, that they can't afford the privilige to sit back, plug in, and cop-out. i be watching that black panther trailer too much. its been an hour.

thats why we are out there protesting peacefully, about it. in different forms, wether it be silently taking a knee or speaking into a megaphone. but despite that, every little move thats made, even when its peaceful and nondistruptive it gets demonized and twisted into "taking a knee means your disrespecting america and that means you hate the veterans who fight for our country" as justification for expressing hatred or disrespect and tries to take away awareness from the meaning of the action, it takes attention away from the problem the protestor is protesting, and twists it to try to have people perceive the protestor as THE problem.

 

[Lackadaisy]

what i said about coming off as softer version of trumps "blame both sides" isnt directed at you, or any individual person who happens to say that. im addressing the words, and the context behind it.

im sure there are well-meaning people out there who isn't really involved or awake in whats going on, or maybe they are, but whatever they are, they're just sick of violence and unrest. i get that, and good for them. ppl who want human rights for themselves or others are sick of it too, the difference is, that they can't afford the privilige to sit back, plug in, and cop-out. i be watching that black panther trailer too much. its been an hour.

thats why we are out there protesting peacefully, about it. in different forms, wether it be silently taking a knee or speaking into a megaphone. but despite that, every little move thats made, even when its peaceful and nondistruptive it gets demonized and twisted into "taking a knee means your disrespecting america and that means you hate the veterans who fight for our country" as justification for expressing hatred or disrespect and tries to take away awareness from the meaning of the action, it takes attention away from the problem the protestor is protesting, and twists it to try to have people perceive the protestor as THE problem.

I agree with everything you’ve said - in particular with regards to the distortion of protest actions like taking a knee. It’s so striking how the people upset by these protests are too privileged to even see that the ideals for which the flag is supposed to stand are not being met in this country. I personally can’t be too proud of a country that doesn’t do right by all of its citizens.

My comments on calm and respectful discourse applied to situations like someone jumping down a person’s throat for saying something along the lines of “women have periods”. I understand wanting more inclusivity, but I still think some people either react to harshly or flat-out look for reasons to start a fight. These situations are pretty rare here, but I do think they contribute to a negative atmosphere. It especially irks me when the people aren’t even part of the group they’re seeking to “defend” - it comes across very self-important to me.

(Edited to clarify that this did not play out in the period thread here - it’s just an example of the type of situation I meant)

 

[Soraru]

BLM is targeting police officers, including the police that don't believe in racial profiling. That's why I don't respect them. But the use of violence is uncivil no matter what. Even Martin Luther King didn't want people getting violent.

correction: BLM isnt targeting police officers, theyre protesting against racist, anti-black police officers. "twist it into making the protestors the problem." this is what i was talking about, folks.

a white r. wing who claims they dont agree with discrimination "BUT" disrespects BLM (a peaceful protesting group, wanting human rights) while thinking he can speak for MLK, (a peaceful protestor leader who is black, and wants human rights) and use him as a tool against BLM, to villify them. when ironically BLM AND MLK's stance is the EXACT SAME thing.
esp. while conveniently leaving out the fact that when MLK was doing his peaceful thing in his time, white media and white people called him violent and aggressive, and he was arrested for speaking out and walking in the streets with a sign, that just sounds so familiar with thats been going on recently with another peaceful protesting group...

so high chance that if you anti-BLM, then you would be anti-MLK's civil rights movement back then.

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the negroes great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the negro to wait until a "more convenient season." - MLK

My comments on calm and respectful discourse applied to situations like someone jumping down a person?s throat for saying something along the lines of ?women have periods?. I understand wanting more inclusivity as a trans person, but I still think some people either react to harshly or flat-out look for reasons to start a fight and label someone transphobic (or homophobic, sexist, racist etc. depending on the statement). These situations are pretty rare here, but I do think they contribute to a negative atmosphere. It especially irks me when the people aren?t even part of the group they?re seeking to ?defend? - it comes across very self-important to me

thats true. i see that sort of behavior on tumblr ALOT. i totally understand the context and have seen similar situations happen. i understand both sides. on tbt, im not sure if i see that here often.

the people who call aggressively label others easily have alot of justified, and rightous anger inside them that is normal for someone who experiences the treatment of an member of any majorly oppressed group. they get hurt by what may seem to be a small insensitive comment, when theyve heard the heavier, more aggressive version of it, and associate that small insensitive comment with that. they dont have the emotional energy to accept grey, so they turn to black and white as a coping mechanism to keep themselves safe.

microaggression is also a thing as well, i beleive its more common than blatant bigotry/hatred. because with racism/homohobic/sexist microaggression, they can easily get away with it and insult while being under radar, and be able to backtrack and hide behind a "i wasnt serious!" or "it wasnt THAT deep." or "i was just joking." or they use it to hide under radar, because if mods look, its much easier to spot a bad person when theyre always saying "all jews should ___, and i think they dont deserve human rights." and then they get a warning. maybe. but they certainly let everyone know what type of person they are. rather than ppl who is like "i never beleived in the holocaust or discrimination against jews, but *says something that completley contradicts their claim*" to keep the "i dont ____ BUT im still a good person" farce.

of course, there are some people who are straight up blunt on brewster, name calling, and cursing, and very obvious trolling, i guess those are the "joksters" who dont even take anything seriously. and then there are people toss out thread + flame bait for example "what do you think about trans human rights", when OP is someone who is not trans, and anti-trans human rights. thats microaggression.

but i have a feeling majority of brewster is more on "give two cents, then sit back and watch the show with popcorn and then complain about the political drama on another thread after that one gets locked. maybe even make a signature out of it and put blame everyone because its easy." idk at this point, im just generalizing. i dont keep track of everyone and how they feel on brewster XD

but i think most people are moving on from all this controversial stuff now, since its becoming a trend to complain about the political threads. some people want to keep bringing trump/politicans threads back to keep up the negative atmosphere and the drama, but alot of it is starting to get locked now.

 

[-Apples-]

correction: BLM isnt targeting police officers, theyre protesting against racist, anti-black police officers. "twist it into making the protestors the problem." this is what i was talking about, folks.

a white r. wing who claims they dont agree with discrimination "BUT" disrespects BLM (a peaceful protesting group, wanting human rights) while thinking he can speak for MLK, (a peaceful protestor leader who is black, and wants human rights) and use him as a tool against BLM, to villify them. when ironically BLM AND MLK's stance is the EXACT SAME thing.
esp. while conveniently leaving out the fact that when MLK was doing his peaceful thing in his time, white media and white people called him violent and aggressive, and he was arrested for speaking out and walking in the streets with a sign, that just sounds so familiar with thats been going on recently with another peaceful protesting group...

so high chance that if you anti-BLM, then you would be anti-MLK's civil rights movement back then.

I'm sorry to say, but that last sentence sounds like you have some extreme bias. I understand that you know some BLM members that aren't savages or whiny people like what the media depicts, but that doesn't mean all of them are the same. If I were to fully support BLM, I should also support the vandalism of businesses and looting done in the riots. So not going to happen. It's not worth destroying someone else's property to protest something. I'm also against their national anthem protests because not only it's un-American to protest the anthem in general, but it's because it has tainted the NFL with politics. People are now getting sick of politics, and when it starts spilling over to entertainment, it's making them even angrier. In fact, NFL lost several viewers because of the national anthem protests. What's bad about protesting the national anthem is much more than the BLM issues.

I don't mind debating with another member here, but I specifically don't like arguing with you. You are too biased, and some of the biased statements you were saying are extremely upsetting. I can get along with people who can't agree with me, but if they support BLM or Antifa, then I'm never gonna get along. I'm not against them to defend bigotry from the right, but I'm against them to defend morals and civil society since they are going against it as well.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop here. I agree with the purpose of the thread, but when I argue with someone over a political issue, I am contradicting the purpose I am supporting.

 

[seliph]

If I were to fully support BLM, I should also support the vandalism of businesses and looting done in the riots.

I could use this logic to say that since you're a Republican you sympathize with the alt-right, hate women, and want minorities to die.

It's not un-American to protest the anthem (which, they aren't doing in the first place. They're protesting police violence against black people). It's un-American to shame people for exercising their right to protest. You don't want riots and vandalizing, but when they're protesting peacefully and silently, it's un-American? That aside the NFL is flipping loaded, them losing "several viewers" because players are tired of people being murdered by those who are supposed to protect them doesn't harm them at all.

I'm going to end it with that but I also hope you realize you're just as biased if not more biased than anyone you argue with. You just called a reference to a literal quote from MLK a biased opinion on him, come on.

 

[Miii]

How does almost every thread (not about your personal hygiene or what you're eating) turn into something like this?

 

[-Apples-]

How does almost every thread (not about your personal hygiene or what you're eating) turn into something like this?

Political threads tend to get heated. I have to say that getting people to be nice to each other regardless of opinions is a good idea. However, there are some members that choose not to be nice or show respect to others that disagree with them, even if the rules are stricter than ever or if the mods are harsher than ever. They wouldn't mind flaming or trolling their opponents until they can finally start agreeing with them. But that will only get the opponents to fight back. Then the fight will continue until the mods close the thread. You see, I am the kind of person who actually believes that we should respect others' opinions, even if they don't agree with you. But there are some members who believe there will never be peace until everybody agrees with them.

When I said that I'm never gonna get along with Antifa supporters or BLM supporters, it doesn't mean I will pick fights or harass them. I respect their right to their opinions, but I'm gonna avoid them. That's what I mean.

 

[seliph]

How does almost every thread (not about your personal hygiene or what you're eating) turn into something like this?

If you're talking about it turning into a discussion about BLM/Antifa you can see the comment that shifted the topic within the last few pages I believe.

 

[piichinu]

no i dont people on this website are really tame and a couple angery people arent that hard to deal with

 

[Alienfish]

Yeah. There is a nice difference with actually making an opinion and commenting on relevant stuff and just being plain rude and start a flame war.

(yes before you get on your hypocrite demonstration bandwagons here yeah I can be pretty heated but I don't go "hi you're a lower human being" just because lol)