Mafia [GAME THREAD] Karen Mafia (Endgame - Mafia Wins)

i want to respond to this and say there is a difference between townreading someone for something, and not scumreading them for something.

i am townreading antonio because of the way EOD went with the threadspewing and the lack of self-pres. i'm not townreading them for their playstyle, i said it doesn't ping me the way it has pinged other people because i recognise it from when i had played a game with them as town before:



i didn't say this was specifically antonio's town meta, just that i'm not getting the same scumread from it that other people are because i know antonio plays this way as town. whether they plays this was as scum too is irrelevant to my point; their playstyle so far in this game does not bring up any scummy red flags for me.

i'm pointing this out because it's the second time you've brought up the 'meta is just meta' point, which tensu then sheeped 30 minutes later, and i don't like having what i say being misrepresented
I entirely misinterpreted you here and apologise. My understanding was your list being a list of reasons he was town - but it absolutely makes sense to list a justification for something he was doing given that the post you were responding to mentions his "sketchy behaviour".
Thanks for clearing that up.
 
I entirely misinterpreted you here and apologise. My understanding was your list being a list of reasons he was town - but it absolutely makes sense to list a justification for something he was doing given that the post you were responding to mentions his "sketchy behaviour".
Thanks for clearing that up.

that's fine, i'm more interested in the fact that tensu unquestioningly followed that misunderstanding and pushed it in a post that looks uncannily similar to yours 30 minutes after
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also welcome back mog glad you're here i would never have let them kill u for inactivity < 3
 
that's fine, i'm more interested in the fact that tensu unquestioningly followed that misunderstanding and pushed it in a post that looks uncannily similar to yours 30 minutes after
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also welcome back mog glad you're here i would never have let them kill u for inactivity < 3
Well my original question was asking your reasoning for townlocking Antonio. I assumed that you were answering that question in your reply. If you want to justify his behavior in this game by relating it with his past meta, that’s your call. I can’t attest to it because I’ve never played with him or read through any past games in which he’s participated in. But for me, being new to his supposed playstyle, I think my suspicions are more than reasonable.

Your three explanations were directed to me, so I replied back honestly. Regardless of what endless replied before, I would have still asked you for clarification about Antonio’s meta, simply because I’m unfamiliar with it. I would have replied to your entire three-point post similarly even if endless had not beaten me to it.
 
The wagon did take minutes. the remaining time in the day was reduced by around 33% before it gained any traction. Perspective is incredibly important here.
In the perspective of the entire 36hr phase, in the last hour of the game, there was a sudden consideration for Dedenne and myself when that wasn't much of an option before. It would be obviously suspicious for Mafia to suddenly push them all of the suddenly, I believe their best option was to wait a bit before pushing them.

It would make sense for Mafia to push someone, most likely Dedenne due to Glow's statement. It would also make sense for mafia to push me, due to the 2nd RNG attempt. Regarding that, the first one was a joke but the second one was serious because I wasn't sure who to vote for and I refuse to vote off somebody I didn't believe was scum. Luckily, there was some logic in the inactive lynch I suggested due to the limited information we had, hence the amazon vote.

First person to outline dedenne as a potential lynch in the thread was actually guava, but this was stated to not be a serious read.

Later on, glow started a serious wagon towards dedenne with logic that was more or less rebutted by epona in the post directly after it.
glow posted half an hour after , without a response to epona's rebuttal.

10 minutes after that, Ace then proceeded to vote Dedenne following glow's logic.

2 hours after that, roughly, glow voted dedenne. (30 minutes left in day.)
15 minutes later, Kat joined the wagon, in response to a general sense of panic that my wagon on you(Antonio) was gaining too much traction too fast.
10 minutes later (5 minutes left in day) epona and Ronishy joined the wagon, to make it the lynch by a 1 vote lead. (Reasoning was the same as Kat)

@glow would love to know whether you a) saw epona's post and disagreed with it or b) saw the post, but still thought the hesitancy warranted a lynch c) missed the post or d) something else.
This is valuable information. Glow's behavior is suspicious in this and I would also like to see their opinions on Epona's rebuttal. I also find it odd that Kat, Epona, and Ronishy changed their vote suddenly with a similar excuse between the three. What worries me is Mafia is known to cause chaos near EOD, confusing everyone about their votes.

I also recall myself mentioning that the push on me was most likely mafia motivated, which could've made mafia switch their votes from me towards Dedenne.

Don't see how this is relevant? Dedenne was reading a dry day 1 like all of us were. So their reads from that phase are likely to reflect on that.
Additionally, (probably due to the point I just made) dedenne pretty clearly stated she didn't have any real reads. So thankfully, I don't have to discuss this as there's nothing to discuss.
For the same reason Volt reads are important, so we can understand the motives behind their actions since it was confirmed that Dedenne was town.

Here's what you said about Volt:
Already addressed my take on this in my first post from this day phase. (i.e. volt had a scumread on Kat, but I think that makes Kat town if anything. Volt had a townread on you, which implies you're town if anything, but I don't think it's anything.)
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All these grammar mistakes. 😭
 
~good morning~
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@epona i had more posts then 5 people therefore your reasoning for choosing me is poor.
Lol my wagon is so poor even maf are not coming in to defend me to confuse the townies

a very towny post, i feel like ronishy has had pretty solid posts and idk why they were a lynching candidate tbh
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where is glow

hi, i was taking a nap and didn't want to die for not voting ^_^
 
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i hate this

!!!!

i've explained it and cannot explain it further
my vote on ronishy was doing nothing, antonio was set to be lynched, i felt stronger about antonio being town than i did about dedenne so i changed my vote to save antonio

if you don't like it that's fine but i really can't elaborate on it further
 
how can u say the second joke was serious tho lol, that logic makes as much sense as voting off someone inactive does it not? like ur just rolling a dice, wouldn't it be better to vote for someone u had actual concerns about? i don't understand how that's town behaviour (can't talk bc i didn't vote but whatever). don't u usually have a bit more logic than this.

also, still reading soz guys, got distracted by hamsters, hmu on discord if u want to see them
 
how can u say the second joke was serious tho lol, that logic makes as much sense as voting off someone inactive does it not? like ur just rolling a dice, wouldn't it be better to vote for someone u had actual concerns about? i don't understand how that's town behaviour (can't talk bc i didn't vote but whatever). don't u usually have a bit more logic than this.
It was a serious idea that came across my mind during the second time. The first time was a joke. As I stated, I had no solid concerns on who to vote for at the time so rnging was something that came to mind.

Voting off an inactive made more sense as their lack of behavior was more anti-town and with the overall assumption that inactive people would be mod killed, voting off one would limit the amount of kills during the phase.
 
Besides you? Dedenne. They've talked with others so there's content to comb through, but they aren't being super helpful so it isn't a huge loss, and I think they'd give a ton of intel on Epona.
Honestly not against an Antonio lynch at all
##Vote: Dedenne
Who do we lynch
I'm down for an Aerious CFD but I think thats it
this is the train of thought that threw me off. within 20 mins, you grasped at who to vote for by asking others/following majority. why lie low and follow majority/change willingness to vote for people within such a short timespan? if you truly believed me to be scum, you should've voted for me instead of hopping on wagons. it's the same reason i don't understand antonio jumping their train of thought to whatever majority believes at the time (abandoning the option of eliminating a random until i proposed to). leaves too much room to remain inconspicuous and claim "oopsie! my bad uwu!"

i also don't understand the logic behind sl on me for throwing in an alternative opposed to allowing people to rng vote -- which was a huge possibility w/ the sheer amount of people saying the same nonsense (i.e. "idk!!!!!! rnadom vote!!!!!!! i'm not sure!!!!!!). don't think maf here would try to move town along, but rather allow them to fall into nonsense

the spat between antonio and i can easily be summed up w the fact that they fell into the flawed logic of false dichotomy. they believed that if i told people not to townlean them for it that they'd be scumleaned. when rather, null is an option as well. that's the tl;dr of what happened w/ them and i yesterday for those popping in
 
but like, by the looks of it evan wasn't rly going to be voted to be lynched so ur vote was just pointless anyway, rng'ing it seems just as anti town to me than being inactive
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i haven't actually read the thread yet so actually maybe me and evan were actually close to being lynched tho
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i guess tho like i know i'm town, mafia would probably be ok with the inactives being lynched 👀
 
@Aerious for the last time, you weren't the first person to suggest voting off an inactive, I was.
i never said i was. i mentioned you abandoning that train of thought until i addressed it again, which is incredibly odd to me. if it's what you truly believed, you should've advocated for it (as i did) instead of proposing rng 2.0

which brings me back to my second point. why did @Arstotzkan not vote for you if they SL'd me for that reason and weren't averse to a CFD against me due to that? a CFD against you was entirely more plausible than against me
 
i never said i was. i mentioned you abandoning that train of thought until i addressed it again, which is incredibly odd to me. if it's what you truly believed, you should've advocated for it (as i did) instead of proposing rng 2.0

which brings me back to my second point. why did @Arstotzkan not vote for you if they SL'd me for that reason and weren't averse to a CFD against me due to that? a CFD against you was entirely more plausible than against me

re: the CFD thing i think kat suggesting a CFD on you was a direct response to me asking if there was anything to be said for a CFD on anyone that wasn't dedenne/antonio/inactives

so with the context antonio wasn't an option in her response
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i hate this can we CFD someone who isn't one of these two or someone with 4 posts LOL
 
but like, by the looks of it evan wasn't rly going to be voted to be lynched so ur vote was just pointless anyway, rng'ing it seems just as anti town to me than being inactive
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i haven't actually read the thread yet so actually maybe me and evan were actually close to being lynched tho
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i guess tho like i know i'm town, mafia would probably be ok with the inactives being lynched 👀
Have you not read my statement regarding why I voted for an inactive or are you just ignoring so you can repeat your "voting for an inactive is useless" statement.

I'm sorry but as I said, I refuse to vote for someone that I don't think is scum. As I had no concerns regarding anyone, voting for an inactive made more sense given the pros.
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i never said i was. i mentioned you abandoning that train of thought until i addressed it again, which is incredibly odd to me. if it's what you truly believed, you should've advocated for it (as i did) instead of proposing rng 2.0
I didn't abandoned the thought after you reproposed the idea, I abandoned the thought after we talked over the pros and cons in the thread.
 
the hesitance is a good point but that could also be because she hasn't played in about a year and is feeling rusty?

i agree on the 'not much to read after i was gone' but i just skimmed her ISO and she posted this before going to bed last night:

so this being her next post kind of makes sense in the context

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i'm getting a bit panicked because EOD is creeping up and we've gotten nowhere

i have a slight gut SR on ronishy but it's extremely weak, basically just feels like he sheeped kat's comment on ace and tried to turn it into something bigger but i also understand that ace's playstyle is... erratic when you're unfamiliar with it

is this the 'rebuttal' everyone was asking me to respond to. i don't really know what i'm supposed to respond to here. like the first point is really the only point that was made in defense of dedenne, and whether or not someone is hesitant about feeling rusty doesn't say anything about their alignment?? like how does that mean they're town in either scenario.

i mean, i'm biased because i've never liked the devil's advocate type of posts, they always come off as chainsaw-y. like pls just let me push on the person i was pushing on because the more pressure they feel the better.

as for if i actually think epona was chainsawing, nah idk at this point because i think dedenne's reply to me (specifically the "nervous about getting mislynched" part was not that bad. i mean it wasn't enough to like, 180 my opinion but i could see how if you're uncertain about dedenne, it could make you townread/lean them.

i think dedenne might just be town?

fwiw my hesitance to townlean people for plays that i don't think mafia would make is not specific to antonio, it would have been the same if anybody else had brought up RNG lynching. it burned me so bad last game and i am trying not to be as blindly trusting this time round lol

(this was the first thing epona said after dedenne's reply)
 
re: the CFD thing i think kat suggesting a CFD on you was a direct response to me asking if there was anything to be said for a CFD on anyone that wasn't dedenne/antonio/inactives

so with the context antonio wasn't an option in her response
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i understand the context. antonio still was a viable cfd candidate because he was up for elimination w/ 2 votes lower. antonio EASILY could've had a cfd against him, regardless of what you said
my qualm is that it seemed like kat was grasping for straws at eod. not against an antonio elim, not against a dedenne elim, not against an elim against me. all of this happened within the course of 20 minutes
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i mean, i'm biased because i've never liked the devil's advocate type of posts, they always come off as chainsaw-y. like pls just let me push on the person i was pushing on because the more pressure they feel the better.
i agree w this for mountainous, people need to be in the hot seat in this mode to garner any sort of response. town won't win unless there's active discussion and everyone is questioned
 
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