1) wagon against them formed extremely quickly with people citing their 'sketchy behaviour' but not actually elaborating on what exactly they were scumreading them for, i'm pretty sure kat even did a u-turn on her earlier townlean on them but will have to look back on that
The wagon did not develop “extremely quickly.” Endless votes Antonio first, and then both me and dedenne (town) voted and explained our reasoning within a minute. The two of us could not have influenced each other due to the close proximity of our posts, especially since everything was unfolding in those hasty final minutes. My post that you quoted basically sums of the sketchy behavior I’m talking about. I wasn’t able to elaborate more then because I was pressed for time. The rng vote -> just kidding -> rng vote proves that he was indeed serious the first time around. It also proves that he cares a lot about his appearance and the opinions of other players. Both his rng vote and inactive vote proposals are very neutral-sounding attempts to gather everybody to vote off a townie. They both do not require any actual analysis or deduction. Antonio wouldn’t look bad after lynching in either of these proposed scenarios because it can be blamed on mere chance.
2) antonio didn't bother to self-pres onto dedenne when they was looking like the lynch target at EOD which is pretty much always stubborn town move. i do not see a w!antonio t!dedenne world where antonio doesn't self-pres onto dedenne. it makes no sense
Ok but wouldn’t self-pressing just make them look even more sus? Like if Antonio jumped on the dedenne wagon to further ensure his own survival and she later ended up flipping town, that would really reflect badly on them. If he was scum then wouldn’t he want to avoid sounding desperate to everybody and drawing that kind of negative attention? Their vote for the inactive could’ve just been to preserve a favorable appearance and to avoid controversy. (They voted for someone who was certainly unable to garner enough votes to actually be lynched so it was essentially a throwaway.)
3) nothing about their behaviour pings me as different to their playstyle in the past. their general defensiveness, AtE and outspokenness makes them LHF for maf to mislynch and i'm not going for it
I can’t speak to this point because I’ve never played with Antonio in the past. However, I second what Endless said. Are you saying this is their typical playstyle in forum mafia in general, or only when town? Is their behavior similar when scum? It’s important to figure out if this is Antonio’s town meta, as opposed to an overall general meta.
The two of us could not have influenced each other due to the close proximity of our posts, especially since everything was unfolding in those hasty final minutes.
I personally believe that if you are town, especially a pr, you should self preserve in most situations, the only time is okay to even vote for yourself imo, is when you are saving a pr if you are vanilla.
I can’t speak to this point because I’ve never played with Antonio in the past. However, I second what Endless said. Are you saying this is their typical playstyle in forum mafia in general, or only when town? Is their behavior similar when scum? It’s important to figure out if this is Antonio’s town meta, as opposed to an overall general meta.
Good morning, everyone! I just woke up so I haven't fully caught up. Regarding the lynch, I would've rather died then Dedenne as I'm not the best at explaining my thoughts and my town-flip could've provided useful information. What's important now is that we can compare people's earlier opinions and behavior and compare it to the lynch votes itself.
Endless stated the wagon "wasn't sudden" but a wagon doesn't have to take 2 seconds to form. It can take minutes. The wagon still was sudden in the overall sense of the day 1 phase, happening only in the last hour. Mafia could've also waited a few minutes to do a push after someone recommended Dedenne, btw. The reason behind the Dedenne lynch didn't agree with me, either. Hesitant behavior isn't AI.
Regarding my mafia meta, I would usually kill off my own members for solid towncred during day and the most active during night and let y'all make stupid arguments as to who's mafia. I don't think Epona played a game with me as mafia, so I'm not sure why you are asking them. If anything, you should be asking @glow as I remember we were in the final stages of a game and I was trying to pin them as mafia but I forfeit due to their pressure. GG btw.
I also have some questions that I want to discuss during this phase w/ everyone:
1) Why was Dedenne voted off? Who started the push on her and who joined in afterwards?
2) Are their differences in peoples opinions and who they voted for? We need to get a list of everyone's reason behind their vote and do a comparison regarding their previous opinions of who they voted for after that.
3) Why did Mafia kill off Volt of all people? Was it random or was their a motive behind their vote?
4) What were Dedenne's reads, exactly...
We need to compile all the information we can get from asking those questions and work from there. I'm currently busy with classwork so I won't be as active after typing this.
Finally, I already stated that I'm not the best at explaining myself and I personally feel like mafia would state my terrible arguments as anti-town and frame me as scum. @epona attempted to do so the previous game according to the scum discord chat and I couldn't take it with everything going on in life. However, I won't stand for it this game. I'm trying my best to figure out who is scum based on limited information so please bare with me guys.
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To clairfy, I'm referring to the previous game me and @epona played.
1) Why was Dedenne voted off? Who started the push on her and who joined in afterwards?
2) Are their differences in peoples opinions and who they voted for? We need to get a list of everyone's reason behind their vote and do a comparison regarding their previous opinions of who they voted for after that.
3) Why did Mafia kill off Volt of all people? Was it random or was their a motive behind their vote?
4) What were Dedenne's reads, exactly...
1 I was the first to vote Dedenne based on glow read, that at the moment I kinda agree with, and you were never an option for me so I stayed there. After me glow voted without doing any posting in the main thread.
2 Like I say even though it was a weak sus, it was the only thing going and I follow it, do I regret it? No, was I wrong? Yes.
3 I honestly have no idea, they were defending you and Dedenne, but Idk might be the vote. If anything it gives you more town cred.
4 I will need to look back into this.
1 I was the first to vote Dedenne based on glow read, that at the moment I kinda agree with, and you were never an option for me so I stayed there. After me glow voted without doing any posting in the main thread.
2 Like I say even though it was a weak sus, it was the only thing going and I follow it, do I regret it? No, was I wrong? Yes.
3 I honestly have no idea, they were defending you and Dedenne, but Idk might be the vote. If anything it gives you more town cred.
4 I will need to look back into this.
Why wasn't I an option for you and why are you worried about the amount of towncred I have? Volt reads on me doesn't confirm anything about my alignment, it just means his reads were coming from a town-perspective.
Why wasn't I an option for you and why are you worried about the amount of towncred I have? Volt reads on me doesn't confirm anything about my alignment, it just means his reads were coming from a town-perspective.
Because like I said a few times the Aerious/Antonio saga was NAI, so for me I never saw a real reason to vote you off.
And I don't specially care for your town cred, but I tried to find logic behind that kill, Volt was right about Dedenne, might be right about you, that was what I was trying to say. Because now that Volt flipped town, it does not lock you, but it does confirm there was no ill motive defending you.
Because like I said a few times the Aerious/Antonio saga was NAI, so for me I never saw a real reason to vote you off.
And I don't specially care for your town cred, but I tried to find logic behind that kill, Volt was right about Dedenne, might be right about you, that was what I was trying to say. Because now that Volt flipped town, it does not lock you, but it does confirm there was no ill motive defending you.
Makes sense. Regarding Glow opinions on Dedenne, what was the quote exactly. Also, glow is usually more active as town when we played together but meta isn't much to work with here. Was Glow the first to have opinions on Dedenne?
Sorry I deadass forgot about this game and am about to have a party for several hours, but I will make an effort when I get back. Would appreciate someone hitting me with as unbiased a report as possible on D1 happenings (I'll still skim but no way am I reading every day 1 post)
I wasn't all too surprised to see a volt kill ngl? Their last post had a really genuine tone. Though I would have imagined an Endless kill would have been better. Someone who had no suspicion on him who was contributing to thread.
Also yeah Epona's by far my strongest townread at this point.
@Endless idk that definitely felt like it formed fast. No one was talking about Antonio at all for most of the thread in any sort of negative light (he was only being townread, at most), and then it went from that to lynch candidate in the final hour. It wasn't that the votes themselves were fast - it was the whiplash in mentality that gave me system shock.
@whoever mentioned it yeah I didn't like what Antonio was doing with RNG voting. Gave me hella scum!Ness vibes. I didn't particularly scumread him but I wasn't particularly scumreading anyone so honestly anything to cling to was at least a justification to lynch.
All in all though, I think yesterday's lynch was kind of destined to be bad. We had no leads, and idk about yall, but I at least was struggling to find a scumread at all. I didn't super scumread Dedenne but it was the best idea I had at the time.
@Aerious You had some questions for me, right? Let's chat
I think multiple people should do this, rather than just one. That's really the only way that the biases would get unfiltered. But here's my take at least:
Day starts, most of it memeing
Antonio makes a post about RNGing a vote, lands on Endless. Also asks about the setup. Aerious replies that she would not like Endless voted off on D1 and that she doesn't think Antonio should be townlocked for asking the set-up question. A back-and-forth between the two ensure.
People start chiming in that it's a pointless back-and-forth, but people give thoughts on it. I slight TL Antonio for the RNG, Endless TLs Antonio for a different reason and says mine's based on faulty logic.
glow and epona back and forth a little
Approaching EoD there's no clear person who to vote off. Antonio legitimately suggests RNG, No One Likes This, but Antonio says it's the only alternative he can think of given there that inactives aren't an option
There's a push for kicking Rosh, which is met with no resistance really, so people back off. Then there's a push for kicking amazonevan or mog. I and Antonio express being against kicking mog in particular, giving her a slight TL. People don't follow the read.
Aerious suggests kicking inactives. This is met with A Lot Of Controversy
Endless suggests kicking either Antonio or Ace. Antonio's the only one that gets traction between the two
The thread's basically panicking at this point, but a few didn't like how quickly sentiments changed on Antonio so we swapped and pushed a dedenne train.
Neither Antonio or dedenne are doing self-pres, both believe they're going to be the ones to die
Sorry I deadass forgot about this game and am about to have a party for several hours, but I will make an effort when I get back. Would appreciate someone hitting me with as unbiased a report as possible on D1 happenings (I'll still skim but no way am I reading every day 1 post)
There we little to go on during EOD, me and Aerious went back and forth which led to night, there was also a sudden change of sus towards me and dedenne during EOD. My memory is poor but that's what I remembered.
@Arstotzkan I was the one to suggest kicking off inactives.
Everyone wasn't aware of the protocol regarding inactive, so it was assumed that the 2 inactive users would've been mod-killed and with only one replacement, one would have been voted off. Hence, why I suggested to vote off an inactive to limit the amount of people being killed off. By my logic, at the time, if we voted off an inactive then we would only have one person killed and the other replaced. If we didn't vote off an inactive, then 2 people would've died during day 1 (one inactive and the person who was voted) with another inactive being replaced.
Of course, we had to wait EOD to realize that their was a warning system in-place for inactive.
Endless stated the wagon "wasn't sudden" but a wagon doesn't have to take 2 seconds to form. It can take minutes. The wagon still was sudden in the overall sense of the day 1 phase, happening only in the last hour.
Literally any lynch would've had all or all but one vote placed in the final hour. (And hence been "rushed" by this logic.)
The wagon did take minutes. the remaining time in the day was reduced by around 33% before it gained any traction. Perspective is incredibly important here.
@Endless idk that definitely felt like it formed fast. No one was talking about Antonio at all for most of the thread in any sort of negative light (he was only being townread, at most), and then it went from that to lynch candidate in the final hour. It wasn't that the votes themselves were fast - it was the whiplash in mentality that gave me system shock.
There was a whiplash of sorts, but that wasn't a random, unjustified whiplash - it was centralised around the inconsistency of Antonio's behaviour. Given the overall dry sense of day 1, it makes sense that people were happy to dig their teeth in.
But I can see that there was absolutely people that went from townreading him to the opposite, which might've given it an air of surprise, but ultimately I don't think that's particularly relevant as everyone was very clear about their reasoning for the push, there wasn't anyone I'd have referred to as a "sheep", so to speak.
This is the information I wanted, thank you.
The reason this is relevant is that epona townread you based on your behaviour "being similar to your town meta".
Now, to understand someone's town meta, you need to have seen them play as mafia - why you ask? Well, how do you know they don't exhibit those behaviours as mafia?
Hence at that point "town meta" just becomes "meta" and becomes entirely alignment irrelevant. Of course, something can definitely be said if you've seen someone play as town and they're playing differently, and the same if you've seen them play as mafia and they're playing differently - but that isn't the case here.
First person to outline dedenne as a potential lynch in the thread was actually guava, but this was stated to not be a serious read.
Later on, glow started a serious wagon towards dedenne with logic that was more or less rebutted by epona in the post directly after it.
glow posted half an hour after , without a response to epona's rebuttal.
10 minutes after that, Ace then proceeded to vote Dedenne following glow's logic.
2 hours after that, roughly, glow voted dedenne. (30 minutes left in day.)
15 minutes later, Kat joined the wagon, in response to a general sense of panic that my wagon on you(Antonio) was gaining too much traction too fast.
10 minutes later (5 minutes left in day) epona and Ronishy joined the wagon, to make it the lynch by a 1 vote lead. (Reasoning was the same as Kat)
@glow would love to know whether you a) saw epona's post and disagreed with it or b) saw the post, but still thought the hesitancy warranted a lynch c) missed the post or d) something else.
2) Are their differences in peoples opinions and who they voted for? We need to get a list of everyone's reason behind their vote and do a comparison regarding their previous opinions of who they voted for after that.
Everyone's reads more or less line up. While reads did change at points there was stated reasoning behind all the changes - don't worry, this is the sort of stuff I grill at the time, I don't need to read back to find it.
Already addressed my take on this in my first post from this day phase. (i.e. volt had a scumread on Kat, but I think that makes Kat town if anything. Volt had a townread on you, which implies you're town if anything, but I don't think it's anything.)
Don't see how this is relevant? Dedenne was reading a dry day 1 like all of us were. So their reads from that phase are likely to reflect on that.
Additionally, (probably due to the point I just made) dedenne pretty clearly stated she didn't have any real reads. So thankfully, I don't have to discuss this as there's nothing to discuss.
Sorry I deadass forgot about this game and am about to have a party for several hours, but I will make an effort when I get back. Would appreciate someone hitting me with as unbiased a report as possible on D1 happenings (I'll still skim but no way am I reading every day 1 post)
First portion of relevance (about half way through the day) was Antonio suggesting to lynch by rng. This was quickly shot down, and Antonio claimed it was a joke. (This by itself isn't very relevant, but it comes up again later.)
The next portion of relevance was a huge scrap between Antonio and Aerious. The premise of it was Antonio asking Aerious about mafia having fakeclaims. The situation proceeded into a misunderstanding when Aerious stated that Antonio shouldn't be townread for potentially dumbtelling here, and Antonio interpretted it as "he might've faked his content."
The whole saga went entirely too long, and you should be glad you don't have to read it. (Important to note that Kat tried to resolve the misunderstanding in the middle, by pointing out to Antonio that what he was saying about Aerious didn't track.
The game then went into a content deadzone, where a lot of players stated that they didn't really have reads. One such post by Dedenne was pushed by glow, which started the first serious lynch track.
Around the same time, some people pushed Ronishy for not having many unique opinions. (AKA mostly followed other people's opinions.) This wagon never really gained that much traction and more or less died out.
Next a bunch of people (Antonio, guava, Aerious to name a few) suggested lynching an inactive. (AKA you, or mog.)
I (and some others) shot this down hard and ultimately prevented it from happening.
oh my lord i am so sorry everyone, and to geoni, i was out last night and somehow assumed that day ended morning time for me so i'd have time when i was back then i saw the thread was locked and i panicked thinking i'd be mod killed!!!!!!!!!!!! anyway i will catch up tonight on everything but wanted to firstly say i am rly sorry guys ;_; weekends are usually bad for me i swear i'll be better lol
oh my lord i am so sorry everyone, and to geoni, i was out last night and somehow assumed that day ended morning time for me so i'd have time when i was back then i saw the thread was locked and i panicked thinking i'd be mod killed!!!!!!!!!!!! anyway i will catch up tonight on everything but wanted to firstly say i am rly sorry guys ;_; weekends are usually bad for me i swear i'll be better lol
Yeah honestly I was surprised initially when someone mentioned we were half way through the day, which caused me to reread the OP to find the cycle time. (36/12)
So I don't blame you at all for making that assumption.
That being said, what're your thoughts on EoD yesterday?
This is the information I wanted, thank you.
The reason this is relevant is that epona townread you based on your behaviour "being similar to your town meta".
Now, to understand someone's town meta, you need to have seen them play as mafia - why you ask? Well, how do you know they don't exhibit those behaviours as mafia?
Hence at that point "town meta" just becomes "meta" and becomes entirely alignment irrelevant. Of course, something can definitely be said if you've seen someone play as town and they're playing differently, and the same if you've seen them play as mafia and they're playing differently - but that isn't the case here.
i want to respond to this and say there is a difference between townreading someone for something, and not scumreading them for something.
i am townreading antonio because of the way EOD went with the threadspewing and the lack of self-pres. i'm not townreading them for their playstyle, i said it doesn't ping me the way it has pinged other people because i recognise it from when i had played a game with them as town before:
3) nothing about their behaviour pings me as different to their playstyle in the past. their general defensiveness, AtE and outspokenness makes them LHF for maf to mislynch and i'm not going for it
i didn't say this was specifically antonio's town meta, just that i'm not getting the same scumread from it that other people are because i know antonio plays this way as town. whether they plays this was as scum too is irrelevant to my point; their playstyle so far in this game does not bring up any scummy red flags for me.
i'm pointing this out because it's the second time you've brought up the 'meta is just meta' point, which tensu then sheeped 30 minutes later, and i don't like having what i say being misrepresented
oh my lord i am so sorry everyone, and to geoni, i was out last night and somehow assumed that day ended morning time for me so i'd have time when i was back then i saw the thread was locked and i panicked thinking i'd be mod killed!!!!!!!!!!!! anyway i will catch up tonight on everything but wanted to firstly say i am rly sorry guys ;_; weekends are usually bad for me i swear i'll be better lol
i haven't actually read anything yet bc when i saw the thread locked i was too ashamed and panicked, thoughts purely based on your synopsis though are that antonio's rng joke is a little too try hard?? like fair enough one joke is fine and memey whatever but to do this again feels like that's who he was actually pushing for which is a major red flag???? , dedennce had literally said nothing of note last i checked the thread so interested to kinda see why/how it started but i'll give u some more thoughts soon!
and ya ty ace, it was soo stupid of me to assume, esp since my posts were like complimenting geoni on that rule then i go ahead and break it smh, normally i'd check as well but recently got a new phone and i have a random password for here
