Mafia [GAME THREAD] Karen Mafia (Endgame - Mafia Wins)

[Aerious]

wym epona doesnt have any self pres? afaik she was never on the chopping block anyway

idk i think im finding myself easily swayed by you so im going to read glow and form a consensus i think.

you mentioned epona townreading him despite antonio not wanting to fight for himself, im not sure what epona has to do with your thoughts on antonio unless u think theyre a team cos u stated townlean.

do u think glow/guava team is possible? i do think scum team needs to have either you, endless, glow or epona for the kills to make sense. i can sort of see a glow/guava team coz ive just been sort of whatever with guava bc i genuinely cannot read. s-posters. (im censoring myself, see geoni)

no. epona mentioned antonio being kept alive because he didn't self pres, even tho he voted for evan for 1. causing chaos w/ the joke 2. no self pres. antonio stated whatever quote i listed above

bro please read this thread and provide reads so i can have some semblance of a towncore and reads from someone i think is town, i am exhausted

i think guava/glow is plausible, even w/ antonio, who backed off on her

this is what's listed in my word atm, and i'm not done:
Teams: Epona/Antonio
Glow/Guava

Post automatically merged: Aug 21, 2020

not sure if antonio prefers they or he or is ok w/ either so pls forgive

 

[glow]

i’m rly confused how you see me paired with antonio in any world

 

[Aerious]

i’m rly confused how you see me paired with antonio in any world

distancing perhaps? both of u dropped cases on each other rly quickly

Post automatically merged: Aug 21, 2020

but you and guava are pretty solid of a scumteam

 

[radical6]

ok im going to try an d form a read post at least, going to skip everyones memes post (a large chunk of some ppl unfortyunately) bc im sort of too tired to deal with reading every s-post in detail. idk maybe i should but i cant be bothered. anyway working on it plz standb y

 

[glow]

glow's reads are hypocritical. against announcement of entering game for dedenne +doesn't sr antonio based on that? instead defends antonio/guava

am i crazy or is this the only thing you said that explains your sr on me

Post automatically merged: Aug 21, 2020

most of ur post is comprised of things that make antonio look sus?

anyway i have no idea when antonio announced exits or whatever and you are horribly mischaracterizing the basis of my read on dedenne

Post automatically merged: Aug 21, 2020

distancing perhaps? both of u dropped cases on each other rly quickly

Post automatically merged: Aug 21, 2020

but you and guava are pretty solid of a scumteam

really not even sure what you're saying anymore ANTONIO SCUMREADS ME and never townread me. his sr just recently resurfaced as i started calling him mafia

 

[radical6]

how do we do the thing where it opens a separate window so u can do a long post easier

Spoiler: wall

I don't think you were wrong to make that sort of read in the last game - thinking that it was poor reasoning just because it was wrong is a fairly good example of results oriented thinking. (Which is obviously poor.)

ok idk if youre saying results oriented thinking is bad or that she was wrong in her thinking

B) guava is always like this it's just her playstyle. despite being really familiar with her she's one player i really struggle to read bc she memes a lot as either alignment

the thing is that it’s mountainous and we need to trust each other late game. there needs to be posts to compare things to and analyze. i’m very pro voting off an inactive bc it’s to the benefit of town

idk if this quote is swaying my mind but at least i see aerious trying to attempt that with me even though ive jjust been sort of out of it this game

Good morning, everyone! I just woke up so I haven't fully caught up. Regarding the lynch, I would've rather died then Dedenne as I'm not the best at explaining my thoughts and my town-flip could've provided useful information. What's important now is that we can compare people's earlier opinions and behavior and compare it to the lynch votes itself.

Regarding my mafia meta, I would usually kill off my own members for solid towncred during day and the most active during night and let y'all make stupid arguments as to who's mafia. I don't think Epona played a game with me as mafia, so I'm not sure why you are asking them. If anything, you should be asking @glow as I remember we were in the final stages of a game and I was trying to pin them as mafia but I forfeit due to their pressure. GG btw.

ok i see where people say antonio lost his sort of "townies must always try to fight to stay alive" thing now, idk if hes being hypocritical or forgetting as scum what he was going to act like this game.

soz i worded this horribly. i think volt is an unlikely fearkill from someone who's played with them and kat hasn't (i believe), or at least to the extent of multiple games. my vote is p set unless something else arises. i do think it's entirely plausible that volt was killed bc they had a decent understanding of the game, and that's the only world where i can see them n1'd

i already did and i’m not in the mood to tl;dr

no, i don’t think glow is scum. she feigns anxiety and ignorance. she also typically posts like this as town anyways, completely mia. i also think it’s highly improbable that scum led both of the wagons on d1. i think the people who need to be under the microscope are those who hopped on the wagon — specifically those who think it was t v t and voted anyways. ofc she can defend herself, this is just my opinion thus far

do u still think shes feigning anxiety and ignorance?

also this is where in the point of the game where like.. glow and endless sort of swap reads on each other. just an interesting thing i notivced in their relationship in the game. endless changes his mind and TRs glow and flips to suspecting guava.

i am actually more inclined to say endless is mafia over kat, because he seemed to push on me to see how much traction it would gain but has since not really taken his other reads anywhere, he seems complicit in kat dying so i think that if kat does flip town he might be mafia just from the fact that he hasn't really spoken on this lynch and instead has hyperfocused on me and now seems to pivot toward EPONA, who is probably one of the last players here that are up to be on the chopping block

glow:

tldr i think its sort of interesting how glow and endless sort of swap opinions of each other, but regardless they dont push their suspicions on each other enough to lynch. endless did vote for glow i think but backed off and i feel tried harder to lynch guava than glow. im not sure if glow ever thought endless was suspicious enough to ever push for a lynch but idk thats just my observations

ace idk tbh, also i noticed earlier epona also thought guava was a s-poster before me and glow brought it up.

umm idk about tensu now, ik my reads earlier were basically umm aerious abe scum team tensu scum lean but now that im more awake and read the thread again i guess my thoughts have changed,

of course i dont fully trust aerious but i am more inclined to talk to her like her point earlier in the game its easier to bounce reads off someone you tr

 

[Aerious]

Ace: D1 Vote: Dedenne D2: Kat D3: AmazonEvan
TL;DR Chaotic playstyle, generally ignores conversation about gamestate and reads. Contributes when convenient to maintain appearances of remaining active. Pro self-preservation as a town tactic at EOD. Voted Dedenne for filler while actively contributing to the same thing. Did criticize Antonio for asking questions while failing to provide their own opinions. Doesn’t think Glow/Guava is w/w.

Spoiler

D1 – to Antonio’s RNG vote, responds:

But props to you for suggesting a fake Karen

Continues to ignore the fact that multiple people have mentioned memes are a waste of time and chaotic, as well as the notion that they should be avoided at all costs.

I think that no one will go for the "Oh that's a slip tunneling now" on D1 especially since there is not a lot going on.

Mentions tunneling on D1

Okay I lied, I just love her avatar, but I don't have a read. sorry

Post automatically merged: Aug 14, 2020

Avatar Reads Goals upupupupu

Read because of... avatar?

I like your posting style is proper and poise. Reminds me of a friend.

Likes Abe’s reads

insecurity isnt a thing now pepehands

Post automatically merged: Aug 15, 2020

this is all very tinfoil hat theory, what would the use of keeping rping for the whole game and ignore people asking to actually play the game? I dont think it's AI that people just respected and took it seriously BUT I would like that Ace/Cake/etc would give their thoughts on this

Another player pointing out Ace’s lack of contribution

Last time we played it was my first game, so now I feel I'm better? playing, so I'm more confident, but I do agree that is different from my early games, so thanks for pointing that out! It means a lot.

Also about the force memes, idk what you are talking about and I will send a letter to your manager.



I'm going in order and I'm a little behind, so will be answering as I go, but as of post 140 everyone is null to me.

Post automatically merged: Aug 15, 2020

For me is a mix, I would love to rp and meme all the game, but if must players find it distracting I will tone it down, I'm in a facebook group in which we pretend to be Karens, and I was not ordinary member, I was a rising star, so I love this game because of that.



But I will be helpful, but I won't stop doing something I enjoy just because someone said so, so you will see memes and Karering from me.



If someone stopped I don't see it as AI, just because no one was against it really.

Post automatically merged: Aug 15, 2020

You make me feel special, but sadly my wait to fulfill my dream of being mafia is not here yet.

But I applaud you for suggesting someone, even if it's me, same thing I said to Antonio, this moves the game somewhere.

Post automatically merged: Aug 15, 2020

Oh now I see what you mean, yes that post about cake is lacking, I was trying to be funny.

I prefer to find towns than mafias, and last game I felt bad Cake was the first one to go, so I want to believe she is town this game, but I have no evidence to that argument.



Also OMG! this game I can say unholy trinity without being read as wolf for that #Goals!



We need to destroy the unholy trinity!

Post automatically merged: Aug 15, 2020

This broke my heart, I was not even the target, I was just a happy accident of the Charlie's angels. super sad.

Post automatically merged: Aug 15, 2020

I even made some art, which reminds me I'm lacking in a board for this game, any suggestions?

Agrees to tone down memeing, another wall post of nothing

And I also find it extremely frustrating that even though bad, I made some reads, and they were question and I even got sus by then, but everyone else is just oh I see your point makes sense, okay moving on. So idk, maybe I'm trying to not stir the pot, to prevent that the cellar gets closed, so I'm just paranoid about it. Which is bad, because, why play if I will feel this way.

His “reads” were TL on Glow, Epona, and I early on

I just don't want to be the reason I messed up everything for everyone.

And yes I agree with you and Ronishy, something is different this game I look back and I'm second guessing everything. And that's not me.



For better or worst, the strongest I see, even though super thin foil is glow's so I will cast my vote.

Weak reads



Slight townish but closer to null

Guava and Epona based on my previous games, this is based on meta, but Guava is queen of meme and can go either way, unless she is claiming fake doc, lol. For Epona I always get a gut feeling if scum, and I only felt it on our first game, the one that I town lock her, and she was The Godfather, lol.



In my mind town

Cake, because I love her avatar so much, but this goes into the null category.



Null

Pretty much anyone else, specially Antonio/Aerious, all that was NAI



Vote of the day

Dedenne, I agree a little with glow, and even though Dedenne was hoping to see lots of content, it can be filler. like I'm here. I'm willing to accept responsibility if I'm wrong here, but I don't believe in no kill, sorry, I don't remember who said it.

Agrees to join the Dedenne wagon because of.. lack of content? Doesn’t believe in NK

Guava was right out of the 241 post only 28 are mine, I only have like 11% of the thread. SAD. I like to be around 25% at least.

During an active discussion, ignores everything else and posts this

1) Arstotzkan 30

2) voltairenism 24

3) Ace Marvel 32

4) Tensu 10

5) dedenne 27

6) Ronishy 13

7) Antonio 32

8) Endless 11

9) glow 6

10) Aerious 31

11) guav@ 21

12) Amazonevan19 0

13) MyLifeIsCake 7

14) epona 31

15) mogyay 4

Once again, pops up during a discussion to post this and contribute nothing else because he wants to be near the highest post count. Ignores everything else mentioned.

I think that we are looking really deep into this.



just don't post ok or agree

and I'm sure it will count.



memes add something more to it to make it funny and helpful

Once again, pops up during a discussion to post this and contribute nothing else because he wants to say memes are ok, but says not to post “ok” or “agree.” Still not of substance.

This argument is flawed, although the worst move possible all the influence could happen in the scum chat, not suss, but pointing it out.







I personally believe that if you are town, especially a pr, you should self preserve in most situations, the only time is okay to even vote for yourself imo, is when you are saving a pr if you are vanilla.







I have only played with Antonio as town, but the play style is similar to that game.

Post automatically merged: Aug 16, 2020

Edit to first point, I read it as general, but you are right, since Dedenne flipped town.

Believes people should self-preserve

CAN WE ALL STOP ONE SECOND AND LOOK AT THE BACKGROUND! WE ARE NOT IN ETERNAL DAY ANYMORE!

Post automatically merged: Aug 16, 2020

Please continue

Once again, contributes nothing

FYI quick musings from yesterday and quick read this morning. Detailed one will come later.

Epona--In the last game I Sr epona but she turned out town. Im finding her difficult to read.

Ace-Where are you? We need you to Karen on giving your insight.

Tensu- my thoughts from last night were you need to come out of endless's shadow as I got picked for the same thing. I need to iso you soon.

Aerious vs kat is heating up.

Antonio- after day 1, I gave you the benefit of doubt but from now on I will be more critical on you.

Evan- your first post started with a joke? It's not a good way to make an entry. Not sure how believable is that you forgot as this is a serious game with time commitments. I would say beware of reading reports as you might be influenced by their view of events.

Sorry I got caught up with the fair event, but I'm here.

Endless you are super close of becoming the next target of SPAAM, yes we have nothing going on in the sense that we are repairing ourselves, but your arguments against me are the same over and over, no matter what I do, but is okay, I always encourage people to try.



About glow, for me it made sense at the time, and like I said I don't regret my vote, the only thing that is strange is that I set the first vote, but glow explained napping. So no biggie there. For once in my life I'm not reading glow as scum, so I really don't want to go there.

Seriously please don't take this the wrong way Endless, but everyone is saying why Volt and not Endless as N1 kill, well, I feel your reads atm are a little weak, specially in glow that you are voting for, so maybe there is a reason you are still alive, and I'm mentioning this because this game is a mix of new and old players, so yeah meta is good, but not everyone have it, because of that I will be trying to not used meta as my strongest argument, because it won't take us anywhere.



Also brings up my next topic, I don't do walls and super insightful reads, that is Epona's work, this is your first game with me, so is understandable that you don't know my playstyle, but the only reason I'm saying al of this is because I still can scum lean you, and I want to see if you can brought up a stronger argument, because right now, I'm not even close of wanting to vote glow off, Antonio is saying there is a lack of solving on glow's part, but for me this is the same glow I have played with before, so that meta is non existent.



And again I apologize if this comes up as rude, never my intention.

Shifts responsibility onto Epona, despite regretting townreading her in Squeaky Clean. Provides insight when called out.

What bothers me about the meta is that by that logic I should have been killed D1last game, because I tried to help more than usual, and I was even called for that. So I don't know what to make out of that.

Post automatically merged: Aug 17, 2020

Was this aimed at me or just the first part? because I never questioned you having reads or deciding not to read.

Not to be mean, but this is weak logic. You allowed Ness into your pocket with memes and TR people D1 based on relationships out of game/things like icons

Didn't even notice, no punches left to roll with, you got to keep me focused, if you want it, say so...

And I've always lived like this, keeping a comfortable distance and up until now I had sworn to myself that I'm content, then I realize it's right there and I'm at home like, "Damn, this ain't fair" And all those things I didn't say wrecking balls inside my brain and I will scream that I'm through with doubt, there's nothing left for me to figure out, I cast my vote, if it's over let it go, and I'll come tomorrow it will seem so yesterday. Glow I hope that all this time you weren't pretending... So much for my happy ending!



Ok this was super hard to make. I'm okay with my vote and I think I will park there, I have to do some work related stuff, but I will try to be here EoD. Good luck ladies. Live Laugh Love

Post automatically merged: Aug 17, 2020

kudos if you find all the references.

TR on Glow…? Busy with work, no SR from glow.

Cake got a warning and Radical replaced Mog

Once again, joins a convo to pick one specific part to respond to, literally doesn’t discuss gamestate

For me is that I don't see glow/guava w/w so we might be into something there, but you are right is too early.

What a useful read with no reasons!!!!!!!!!

Because same can be said of every wagon made this game, and because I play with scenarios/worlds and I don't see glow/guava as scum together, I don't want to vote guava off, out of Tensu and Evan, I rather keep Tensu, and finally I don't see an Endless wagon happening right now. So yeah from the options right now which is Evan I don't see it as just a crazy idea. But you sus glow, so I understand why you can't see it.

Once again joining a weak wagon. Doesn’t see glow/guava together. Doesn’t explain why. Protecting Guava

I'm not getting you angle here Antonio, are you trying to sus someone or just waiting for a reaction? You been back and forth with some players, have you gotten anything?

Fair logic, I actually agree with this

Ummm, I dunno know, the fact that Guava seems like LHF, makes me worry that the actual mafia is using that card, and at the same time use Endless as a escape goat if Guava flips town, is this too far fetched, am I thinking too outside the box and I'm just being a victim of mafia theatrics. I'm lost but at this moment I'm comfortable saying I'm town with Glow, Cake, Antonio, Epona, and to some extent Guava.

“I’m lost let’s hop on a wagon!!”

This is the must anti Karen thing I will say during the game:



WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER

NOT BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE IT'S TRUE, IT MEANS YOU ARE RIGHT

I believe in this town queen! Don't go after Guava.

Guava town!!!!!

Ok fine kill me! As always no matter what I do is never okay, do you want me to vote myself out?



Evan started this after my bad D1 and totally ignored the rest, so okay then, Evan is the top wagon and suddenly I may because I don't want to keep him, like whaaaaa...? From day one I said I would take responsibility for my votes, and I do. I SAID WHAT I SAID.

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

This is not helpful and also this is my play!! I'M CALLING YOUR MANAGER!!! UGGHHH!!!

I don’t know how you want this to be your meta, but truly, you’ve hopped on wagons with no explanations and budge only when people ask

I’m going to be out next few hours so I’m parking my vote on ace and hoping for the best. If this game goes the way I think it will, mafia will get a clean sweep. Sucks

Evan votes Ace instead of going for Tensu, this was obviously a town play. He wanted to vote mafia instead of sacrifice someone to save himself

Amazonevan19 [3]: Ace, Antonio, Endless

Tensu [2]: Epona, Aerious

glow [1]: MyLifeIsCake

Endless [1]: Guava

Ace Marvel [1]: Evan

Not Voting: Glow, Radical, Tensu

Once again: pops in to provide ~nothing~ on gamestate and reads! Wow! Love choosing random things to respond to in order to seem active

For a second I was like, who is that? I'm so used to your avatar, lol. Talking abut avatars #AvatarReads goals

*sigh*

Tensu: D1 Vote: Antonio D2: Kat D3: AmazonEvan
TL;DR Consistent inactivity has contributed to hinderance of town. D1 was full of towny posts. Against self-pressing because it would’ve made Antonio look more sus. Wasn’t sure why Epona TL’d Antonio D1. Against voting of inactives, continues this point when discussing his own failure to stay active. Jumps on Evan wagon to self-preserve, then claims anyone against him will OMGUS him. He mentioned believing that scum wouldn’t do this because it’d reflect badly on them later on. WIFOM.

Spoiler

After thinking for a while, I’m gonna go ahead and say I have a very slight scum lean on Ronishy. They seem to be active in the game but haven’t said anything very original throughout their several posts. I get the impression that they are playing cautiously and waiting before saying anything that would jeopardize their appearance. I’m getting sort of sheepy vibes from their posts:



(Everyone disagrees with the rng lynch, so safe bet)



(Agreeing with endless and calling for “serious questions,” when he hasn’t offered any himself)



With the exception of calling out Ace, nothing has been too significant at all. But I guess the Ace’s mood/attitude thing is a fair enough point. I have no familiarity with his play style so I honestly can’t say for sure. Either way, I don’t think this matter is of any particular importance (but I could be wrong). The only thing that has me second guessing is the fact that Ronishy is a very new player, and could just be acting like a timid townie. If he really is scum, then I don’t know how the other two might instruct him to act. Or if his responses are limited in substance because scum are not yet sure how to approach this game. Take this with a grain of salt though, your guesses are probably as good as mine right now.

Weak SL on Ronishy, but may be timid player

I understand but voting for an inactive could likely be a mislynch. Idk if we have any other ideas but it’s true that: a. inactives are no help because they’re... inactive. And b. they could end up modkilled in this game if we don’t lynch them possibly causing us to lose yet another townie. Just saying it’s important to weigh out our options.



Part of me feels like scum wouldn’t be inactive, and that they’re blending in with other contributing townies. But don’t get me wrong, I don’t understand townreading mog from her three posts. She’s definitely null for me.

Against inactive kills, points out that maf blending in

That’s possible. Guess I’m unfamiliar with his play style so his behavior struck me as odd.

Conceding to meta just because someone said so

Morning Karens. I believe the sudden deddene bandwagon against the set Antonio lynch was mafia driven. The counter-wagon formed even faster than Antonio’s wagon during those final minutes so that raises a massive red flag for me. I’m honestly not sure why deddene was suspected as scum in the first place, she always came across as null or maybe slight TL for me. Antonio’s behavior, on the other hand, is hard to justify.



As for volt’s night 1 kill, I feel like scum were just trying to get rid of a more decent player. Volt voted for mogyay, but their elimination shouldn’t cast too much suspicious on mog. I believe pursuing that is probably a red herring so I’m not paying much attention to that.



@epona Why are you so confident Antonio is town? I feel like townlocking him is quite a stretch given his sketchy behavior.



Anyway, I’m looking forward to seeing people post their reads! I’m planning on having mine up later today.

Spitting straight facts

The wagon did not develop “extremely quickly.” Endless votes Antonio first, and then both me and dedenne (town) voted and explained our reasoning within a minute. The two of us could not have influenced each other due to the close proximity of our posts, especially since everything was unfolding in those hasty final minutes. My post that you quoted basically sums of the sketchy behavior I’m talking about. I wasn’t able to elaborate more then because I was pressed for time. The rng vote -> just kidding -> rng vote proves that he was indeed serious the first time around. It also proves that he cares a lot about his appearance and the opinions of other players. Both his rng vote and inactive vote proposals are very neutral-sounding attempts to gather everybody to vote off a townie. They both do not require any actual analysis or deduction. Antonio wouldn’t look bad after lynching in either of these proposed scenarios because it can be blamed on mere chance.





Ok but wouldn’t self-pressing just make them look even more sus? Like if Antonio jumped on the dedenne wagon to further ensure his own survival and she later ended up flipping town, that would really reflect badly on them. If he was scum then wouldn’t he want to avoid sounding desperate to everybody and drawing that kind of negative attention? Their vote for the inactive could’ve just been to preserve a favorable appearance and to avoid controversy. (They voted for someone who was certainly unable to garner enough votes to actually be lynched so it was essentially a throwaway.)



I can’t speak to this point because I’ve never played with Antonio in the past. However, I second what Endless said. Are you saying this is their typical playstyle in forum mafia in general, or only when town? Is their behavior similar when scum? It’s important to figure out if this is Antonio’s town meta, as opposed to an overall general meta.

Spitting straight facts 2.0 against Epona. Self-pressing makes people look more sus

“Like if Antonio jumped on the dedenne wagon to further ensure his own survival and she later ended up flipping town, that would really reflect badly on them. If he was scum then wouldn’t he want to avoid sounding desperate to everybody and drawing that kind of negative attention?”

Well my original question was asking your reasoning for townlocking Antonio. I assumed that you were answering that question in your reply. If you want to justify his behavior in this game by relating it with his past meta, that’s your call. I can’t attest to it because I’ve never played with him or read through any past games in which he’s participated in. But for me, being new to his supposed playstyle, I think my suspicions are more than reasonable.



Your three explanations were directed to me, so I replied back honestly. Regardless of what endless replied before, I would have still asked you for clarification about Antonio’s meta, simply because I’m unfamiliar with it. I would have replied to your entire three-point post similarly even if endless had not beaten me to it.

Straight facts 3.0 against Antonio/Epona

I get how my response to epona’s post can be seen as pretty sheepish. I just felt the need to reply to her even if most of what I said was super similar to endless, I still stand by what I said. (Most of that post could’ve probably been omitted since endless’s was so similar but I just really wanted to drive that point home.) I still brought up some unique points but yeah I understand the backlash. Ultimately, I wanted to put in a decent response to epona because the dialouge was between us two in the first place.



But reading through the thread up to now makes me scumlean Antonio less. I’ve been liking his posts more this D2. Even though I only skimmed through the thread, I’m seeing some well constructed posts from him so that’s good. I’m also gonna scroll through some previous games and get a better idea of his meta myself, because epona (and whoever else talked about it) could likely have a decent point.



On a completely separate note, Ronishy is probably my greatest TL at the moment. I’m honestly really uncertain of most other people’s motives now.

Lessened SL on Antonio because of.. facts? Girl… I do not understand. Defending posts, TL Ronishy

I’m gonna be gone in a bit through EOD so I’m just gonna place my vote now. My prime suspects are those who jumped on the dedenne CFD and (specifically Kat). I have a gut feeling, which I know is not much but at this point it’s the best I got. But others have pointed out some solid observations that I’m not gonna bother repeating as I’m sure you’re all aware. I’m easing off my suspicions of Antonio for now, which I talked about it in a previous post. Again, I don’t feel incredibly confident with this decision but it’s the best I’ve got now.

Voted Kat because.. gut?

Hey peeps, I’m sorry for being so inactive lately. Classes, work, and practices have snuck up on me and I’ve been way busier than I anticipated I would be. I’ll read through all I’ve missed and gather my thoughts before EOD.

I’m busy with IRL things/no Glow SR for doing the same nonsense

I feel so far removed from this game at this point but I do feel like one thing does stick out for me. I think maybe someone pointed this out but it’s a bit odd that endless is still alive. Their reads seem pretty insightful, their reads and ISOs have been some of the best (quality-wise) put out in the game, so I’m surprised mafia haven’t taken them out yet. There are a couple of situations I believe could be playing out. 1) Endless’s opinions are wrong and scum are keeping him alive to mislead people. 2) Endless is indeed scum or 3) he might be on the right track but scum are wary of lynching him knowing that. I’m not scum leaning endless but this does stick out to me.

Still busy with IRL things/starting to look at Endless

Well inactivity posts aren’t AI at all. With the limited time I’ve had to keep up with this game, it’s impossible to make informed and well thought out observations on the fly without having read through the thread. Those inactivity posts, although lacking substance, were meant to tell everyone that I was indeed alive and putting care into the game, even though I haven’t had the time.



Also my strong opposition to an inactive lynch shouldn’t be AI either. I was one of several others that advocated against this, so do you find the others’ sus too? I don’t really follow. Again, an inactive lynch would not help town bc 1) it’s essentially random, and also an easy way for scum to lynch a townie D1. 2) lynching an inactive gives us no info to go off of in the future. Also the fact that I had four posts about it isn’t weird when put in context. It was near EOD, and everybody was putting out posts quickly and frantically. I was definitely not the only one.



I know my inactivity has taken a toll on the quality of my posts this game, and I take responsibility for that. But I think your reasoning is for voting me is weak. I know I haven’t been super helpful this game but lynching a townie is not what we want right now.

Looking back, I actually agree with this.

Not at all confident about an Evan lynch, but since it’s between me and him... I gotta save my own ass because I at least know for certain I am town. (I know... shocker) Frick you scum and your scummy wagons lol

Tensu thinks t/t, wants to save himself? Even though he knows his inactivity has taken a toll on the game? Instead kills a townie to live?

At least if Evan is lynched, I know I’ll survive during night phase. Scum will definitely keep the tensu wagon rollin day 4, I just know it.

Preying on OMGUS?

Post automatically merged: Aug 21, 2020

Endless: D1 Vote: Antonio D2: Guava D3: AmazonEvan
TL;DR Bro I expected more. This man is Professor Layton and I cannot be bothered to TL;DR it all. I don’t understand the shift from Glow as scum to town so suddenly simply because of cooperation. D2 didn’t think Kat wagon was strong, obliged, then swapped to CFD Guava. Cut parts of his posts because it was over 50k characters. This man writes too much.

Spoiler

I'm referring to your reasoning for townreading Antonio, not the discussion between Aerious and Antonio. (Which I've addressed elsewhere.)

Bolded portion for relevance.





Additionally, adding epona to my townread bucket based on her defense of specifically glow's push on dedenne, which was fairly logical and plain reasonable.



I'm curious about something though; Kat, you just stated you now trust Ace based on him adhering to his "town meta".

Maybe I have my facts wrong, but I'm under the impression that Ace has never flipped mafia. Since he doesn't have a "mafia meta", no behaviours should be "town meta". They should just be "meta".

Could you elaborate on this a little more for me?

TR Antonio questions on D1, which are relevant. Mentions no town meta.

They are going to be mod killed/replaced anyways,why would they still be around past day 1?

Which is entirely the point. If they're maf and they die to modkill that is straight beneficial to us, and we get to use our lynch to have another shot at hitting mafia.



As for who I'd vote for? I'm stuck between Antonio and Ace.

I know the general concensus with Ace is that his behaviour is off because of the situation around the game, I don't necessarily follow that. Inconsistency meets faux joviality - or real joviality, other people in this game know him better than me.

Regardless, I dunno, don't like much of his content so far.

As for Antonio, despite my earlier townread of him, his latest content is.. weird, and, ironically, considering my original reason for townreading him, I can't really put my feet in his shoes and understand where he's coming from.



I would be happy with either of those lynches.



As for ronishy, I don't have a good defense for them, but I don't particularly agree with the reasoning for voting them. I found their 1 unique push a little genuine, which makes up for the somewhat hivemind-y behaviour.

Defending killing someone who’s going to be modkilled/replaced from Antonio trying to push something anti-town. Acknowledges Ace is off, thinks Ronishy is genuine

Volt was killed by mafia.

I was reading into why mafia might have committed that action. (Maybe due to his reads, for example.)



Dedenne was murdered by town.

Dedenne wasn't lynched due to her reads - she was lynched due to glow's push on them + people not wanting to lynch you last second.

I hope that clears up the difference.





The more I thought about this the more it rubbed off as weird, you have some explaining to do glow. Some additional explaining.



So you were "Applying pressure" while you didn't post in the thread for the last 3 hours?

You said you voted because you "were taking a nap and didn't want to die for not voting".

Am I misinterpreting this by assuming you weren't reading the thread? If you weren't reading the thread, what was the point of the pressure?

Were you expecting other people to do something off it?



Or were you reading up until a point and then stopped for a nap?



I've got a lot of questions but I'm genuinely super curious about the answer.

Defending reasoning to Antonio, pressure on Glow

epona - Was a huge fan of their defense for dedenne day 1, hated their CFD off Antonio onto dedenne, but like a lot of her day 2 content.

guav@ - Liked her reaction to my call for her to post more content day 1. Very little game related content though, so genuinely would like to see a little more here - tr here is v weak.

Ronishy - Honestly liked their intitial push on Ace day 1, and felt like their reaction to being lynched was a slight positive in their direction.

That being said, I would like more content from Ronishy, as they've more or less dropped off the map.

Arstotzkan - Aerious is pushing Kat primarily off volt's push on her before death and her statement that she "didn't really think dedenne was mafia" but voted her anyway. Which I took more as "I don't have any real reads but I guess this is the best option" - but I can understand where Aerious is coming from. Regardless, I don't really have a strong read here.

MyLifeIsCake - No strong read here, I'm hoping for more posts like their last post, as that sort of post that shares opinions is key to work off later.

Amazonevan19 - content so far is fine, but I don't have any real impressions from it. Glad you're finally posting.

Aerious - wanted to vote the inactives day 1, which is braindead and much less than I'd expect from a player of Aerious's competency, but also Aerious claimed d1 as town last game which is equally dumb and unhelpful to town. So honestly I don't read into this whatsoever.

Day 2 content is fine but nothing to write home about.

(Just saying it how it is, don't hate me. <3)

mogyay - Anyone with a read on mog off the content I just ISO'd is either a magician or reading too much into nothing.

Tensu - Tensu has received some heat for more or less following my opinions in 2 cases now, but he does have a slather of his own unique reads so I'm not putting as much stock in that.

That being said, it is extremely interesting that his initial scumread on ronishy was based on ronishy not "offering anything himself" when Tensu has been following a fair few reads himself.

In Tensu's defense though, that wasn't a very long-lived scumread and perhaps he was trying to milk a rock for some form of content.

Ace Marvel - Posts more or less read off/weird to me, and there's next to no content from this direction. Not a strong read, but a read nonetheless.

Antonio - a little conflicted here. I absolutely hate his day 1 content, almost in its entirety. That being said, his day 2 content so far has been absolutely fine, and is primarily directed at my main scumread. Don't know how to resolve this atm, will figure this out later.

glow - voted dedenne off day 1 primarily for reasoning that (I believe) was soundly defended. Her responses feel weirdly 1-line-y and keep not exactly answering the questions that I (and other people) have been asking.

She's also made a bunch of statements she hasn't yet explained, but I don't think that's points against her - I don't think glow would make comments (even as mafia) that she didn't have a reason behind, so I'll patiently wait for the reasoning on those posts.

Post automatically merged: Aug 17, 2020

EBWOP: Feel like this is kinda obvious but

█ = town

█ = null

█ = weak scumread

█ = scumread

Not understanding guava TR tbh

I like some of the points Endless made here but I have a real big issue with their glow read. Even though we share the opinion that glow is likely scum, Endless’s reasons read almost like she should be put in nulls. Like cover up the red glow part and read the paragraph he wrote - would you have assumed that was a scum read? I wouldn’t have and that’s a problem. It feels like this read is hedging a lot



This doesn’t mean I think endless is scum now too but I am reevaluating because some of these reads very much rub me the wrong way

Dunno why Endless hasn’t pushed hard on Glow/to convince town about her

Fairly sure you'll find I said the kill was "town if anything". AKA I absolutely wouldn't read into it being evidence for kat being mafia - which is precisely what you've done.

Jeezus, right when I'd decided to stop applying pressure to you.



I literally can't be bothered re-writing all of this so I'm stealing from my recap:

First portion of relevance (about half way through the day) was Antonio suggesting to lynch by rng. This was quickly shot down, and Antonio claimed it was a joke. (This by itself isn't very relevant, but it comes up again later.)



Antonio went on to ask everyone to guess a number between 1 and 10, then voted for volt when he volt picked 6.

Essentially, he went back to rnging a lynch after stating that he'd only done it as a joke earlier.

This rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, and a wagon formed on Antonio. (This happened in the last hour before EOD)



Kat scumread Antonio based on the latter rng attempt, and townread him for the former. Completely consistent behaviour.

The only legitimate reason for voting Kat atm is Aerious's - Kat stated they scumread Aerious but opted to vote a TR over those two options.

That being said, I don't think this is all that strong of a reason.



Strong words coming from someone who just represented a lack of information about the gamestate.

Didn’t think it was that strong of a reason for a Kat wagon

First of all, @Aerious I am active, at my computer, touching my mouse, at points when I am doing things that are not "free time".

I am sure this qualifies for Kat as well. That being said, this is a pointless discussion because literally no one is saying you don't believe what you're saying, we just think it's erroneous/wrong.



As a premise to my reads list, I feel it's pertinent to mention that while making this post I ISO'd every single living player that isn't me, so if you feel like there's something I missed, absolutely point it out and pressure me to answer it.



Reads list:

Spoiler: Legend

█ = town

█ = null

█ = weak scumread

█ = scumread

glow:

Spoiler

I'm going to keep this relic from when I had glow listed as yellow on this list:



Even though it's past tense, I wrote it just before I went to ISO/fill out my read on evan, so I'm going to leave it here just because of how vindictive my tone is before I did an essential 180 on her - it amuses me, and it being here should hopefully make my reads more transparent.



Glow asserted that dedenne's tone was off day 1, and lead a lynch on them. After grilling her day 2, I've come to the conclusion that this wasn't an unreasonable push, and while I disagreed with her reasoning, I can understand it.

Day 2 glow was mainly pushing evan/me with a sprinkle of "Kat is a fine lynch".

These pushes were "damning" for my previous read, but now that her evan read makes some amount of sense I don't really care as much.

As far as I can tell her read on me being mafia is because I "pushed on her to see if it would gain traction" - fairly sure I fully explained myself as for my reasoning on the push, which you then admitted were actual reasons. (Failure to understand motivation behind your actions.)

Which seems kinda weak to me. Of course, if that's not your actual reasons, please elaborate.



So up to this point, this reads absolutely like a null read, but the key thing I noticed was that glow just absolutely doesn't fit in a team with literally any of my scumreads. Guav@ is "buddying" (best I can describe it) too much to be in a team with glow, Antonio tunneled glow for an entire day phase, glow is now leading a lynch on evan which she pretty much constructed entirely herself, he didn't have any suspicion on him prior, so that's also off the cards.

So unless my reads are all wrong, which I find overwhelmingly unlikely, it would be difficult for glow to be mafia.

Notes: Not w/w with any of guav@/Antonio/Evan


So to touch on my initial push on her, she stated that she was willing to vote dedenne, disliked the Antonio lynch, then refused to vote dedenne to save Antonio.

I have 2 things to address here:

a) She said she didn't like random lynches. Who cares? Wouldn't she want to random lynch someone over a wagon she didn't like? On the person she said she would lynch if she did random lynch? Moreover, the post where she didn't like random lynches was a justification when she refused to vote dedenne, earlier in thread she seemed (perhaps jokingly) disappointed in a lack of an RNG vote, which sends the opposite message.

b) But Endless, Dedenne flipped town - There's absolutely something to be said about not wanting to be on either the main or the secondary lynch as mafia.

Ftr her behaviour day 1 absolutely means she wouldn't be on a team with Antonio, which means not all my scumreads are correct, but that's a bridge I'll cross later.



Now we're past something you'll all probably disagree with me on, even though I'm drilling it to death, let's move on to epon@'s (lack of functional) reads:

First reads

Basically epona = mafia. (She has reasoning in the next post.) Endless = mafia for.. not being night killed. I mean, I can't refute the latter. It's lazy, LHF, and terrible in multiple ways, but I can't refute it.

Second reads post

She supplied her reasoning on epona "as the back and forth re: strong players", which epona proceeded to rip to shreds moments later. (This is going to become a theme.)

Third reads post

She claims my reads don't make sense, mentioning my town reads on her and epona (is she implying I can't townread someone and someone that person scumreads?) and my... scumread on Antonio. Who I literally lead a lynch on.

Needless to say I rip this post to shreds as well.

Fourth reads post

She claims my vote on her was "desperate". I rip this to shreds shortly after.

She also (I don't know if jokingly) suggests a wagon on Aerious? Maybe she thought she could get traction on Aerious because they just mled town. (pertinent post to this thought, sort of justifies "Aerious wagon let's go!", but can't be bothered reading too much into this.)

Fifth reads post

This one is pretty important - agrees with glow on some points and lists evan as null

1 hour later: "I'm for an evan vote I think". Like am I crazy? Is this not completely unreasonable?(vote is serious as well ftr)



So in summery, literally every read they've had sans "Lol why is endless not dead he must be mafia" has been torn to shreds, and they voted someone they claimed was null an hour after the fact, with no justification except "glow said to".

Notes:https://www.belltreeforums.com/threads/game-thread-karen-mafia-day-3-ends-at-5pm-est-8-19.566656/page-35#post-9511283]Weird buddy of glow, so not w/w with glow. Also not w/w with Antonio based on D1 events.

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2020

And with that, I'm voting guav@, taking some well needed rest, and sighing with relief that that 3.5 hour post is finally completed.

I tried to make it as easy to read as possible, so if it's still too text-wally, I apologise.

Glow moves straight up to town when explaining reads, Epona/Cake/Me town.

So to clarify, because sometimes I misinterpret things - the primary reason you've been pushing me is that you expected me to die n1, but now you're going more towards the conclusion that I might've been left alive to "draw attention to me when <the person I am lynching> flips town"?



Can you please explain whether mafia making this decision would be on n1 or n2? (I.e. are you suggesting they left me alive to ml you or left me alive to ml on antonio, and if the latter, does that mean you believe antonio is town?)





@epona I fail to see a single point in that post pertinent to why you didn't want an evan lynch - it reads more of an analysis of why glow scumreads evan, and the fact that you can understand that, which would imply that you scumread evan if anything? Regardless post confuses me and I want some follow up.

Addressing OMGUS

In a game where modkill is threatened for inactivity (And the warning system wasn't mentioned), pretending to forget about the game d1 seems suicidal. I.e. he absolutely forgot about the game, but I don't think that means anything.

Agreed, it’s suicide for your team. This is why Radical’s in a town slot for me atm

Guav@ has had doubts about you consistently (to the point of a rxn test). Sure hasn’t come up to the point of a consistent sus but you two have been going at it for a while and her work informs my sr. The solid point she made is that you likely would’ve reacted to her rxn test differently as town



I read everything from D1, not just posts you hyperlinked (which I read before). Upon a full reread I didn’t let the fact that you posted a lot of analysis sway me as much and actually focused more on interactions and thinking about possible worlds.

SL on Endless

I'm just happy EoD chaos is happening before ~1 hour to go. It's a nice change.



Ftr switching my vote to evan - very comfortable with that lynch and I don't think my guav@ vote is going places. (this day phase.)

Joins Evan wagon

Post automatically merged: Aug 21, 2020

ok think i'm screwed because that whole post can only be 50k without someone cutting me off so pls wait for me to recruit someone to post something so i can finish my reads list

 

[Aerious]

Glow: D1 Vote: Dedenne D2: Kat D3: AmazonEvan
TL;DR Dodged D1 after starting a weak wagon on Dedenne, but still managed to vote. “Woke up from a nap.” Mentions meta being inconsistent. Consistently has defended Guava despite anti-town behavior. Believed 1 maf was on Kat wagon, being Evan. Jumped on an Endless wagon with Guava. This one is my weakest case, not because I don’t believe it, but because I explained a lot of what I believed earlier.

Spoiler

glow is mia in discussion but voted anyways, mog is straight mia.

who else? cake?

Dodged D1 discussion after leading a wagon on Dedenne

RE: glow meta: tbh i purposefully am not consistent with posting frequency/style/effort for the reason that i don't want to have a "high effort = town" thing ever again; though the frequency bit is more just based off of how much free time i have

No meta

Right now I'm between glow and Antonio for my vote.



glow sent major red flags to me last game for essentially justifying mislynches of town. In this game she goes for dedenne first, saying it was a feeling based on their indecisiveness of posting. Idk, I feel like this was their way of starting a wagon on a random player to gain traction and frame it as a mislynch to be like 'ops guys, we'll get 'em next time'



Antonio is still on may radar for now. I feel like its going to be one of those situations where they were almost lynched D1 and then we overlook them the entire rest of the game and coast by.



The maf dream team in my head is: Antonio/glow/Tensu maybe? I need to read over their post again, I keep forgetting when they posted.



epona I feel would give some valuable info on some other players by proxy of who she defended. She hard defended Antonio earlier in D1 and now she is covering glow in a way? I'd like to see who flips later and how that will effect her reads.



Amazon just got here so I don't have a lot to off of by them. No idea how they usually play but starting out memeing is just the way to break the ice in the game? Also, someone bringing up the point that could;t have scum reads yet when there's an entire obs chat making reads on games they aren't even playing. I don't think that's indicative enough for an soild scum read on them



Kat had a lot to say D1 but I haven't seen a lot of their post D2 so I would like to see what they have for their defense but I'm not sure if I will make it back in time for that.



Ace and Aerious are pretty much playing like they were in the other games.



Endless has posted endless walls of text that offers some good insight on certain players, but it really does feel like it's their own perspective on the matter stated as fact.



I'm kind of in the same boat as mog. I thought I'd really have more time for this but real life stuff gets in the way. I can sub out if that would seem better for everyone.



I'm gonna flip my taco stand if Ronishy randed maf on their first game

who wants to panik lynch endless ^O^

Jumping on Endless wagon after Guava’s droning of D1-D2

thing is, i think the majority on kat are town with the sole exception of Evan being idek

Why would it be strictly one maf on a wagon? It was a free wagon that people latched to

actually let kat die i don't want to lynch guava and i don't think the others are set/afk anyway

rip easy townread



ok sooo i will take deep breaths and reread in depth this afternoon



in the meantime



endless why did you wait til so close to day end to try to flip



why guava over Evan



WHY do people defend Evan

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2020

i am gonna cry if aerious is mafia cos i locktown them :~(

ATE/Riding for Guava for no reason. Still pursuing Evan

even if i ignore my tonal reads on aerious.



if aerious is mafia then they killed volt just to meme wifom about loving them/avenging them/"would not kill volt i'd kill endless"



i just don't see that being the type of player aerious is?? it feels very fake / insincere in regards to volt and aerious doesn't strike me as the type to use friendship to seem towny

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2020

at the very least i don't think aerious led the kill so i'm kind of making the assumption all mafia were in agreement on the volt kill

from this it sounds like you nulled both? meaning, kat vs evan you had no preference?

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2020

she said earlier in the thread she'd only lynch dedenne as a random shot in the dark, then says "i'm not lynching random like that" so i'm not connecting whatever you are here? how does not being willing to lynch dedenne reflect badly

to me, a case is more compiled and thorough, so while yes i wouldn't say ive made a case i would still say ive given reasons for my evan vote



summarized:



1.)

he had/has a strong agenda, by that i mean he named three people for a scumteam without reading the game in full (in contrast to others who've been around since game start, and struggle to out a handful of scumreads and especially have struggled to name "compatible" team reads of 3)



2.)

he said i was highly compatible with kat, i guess cos i townread her early on or something? but failed to define why specifically, which just felt opportunistic as multiple people had casted doubts on me or kat (you/endless/aerious/epona/etc)



3.)

only gave kat benefit of the doubt in the last five mins?



maybe because i mentioned that nobody was defending her? maybe he wanted to look indecisive? fmpov it just lacked sincerity, especially since the reason he gave was that she wasn't around to defend herself but.... she wasn't there at all during d2, why would it only matter to him at the end?



his vote timing is relevant here so yeah that needs to be looked into



//



i think guava has really good tone and reminds me of last game



i also think guava is an easy push on this player list because she's pretty meme-y, neutral toward pressure, and hasn't made any definitive assertions

Guava defense. Against Evan because of his hesitancy to kill Kat.

i guess i'm also hesitant on endless as well so that factors in my guava placement, especially because i think their interactions are very interesting -- even if one is mafia i don't think the other is. so it's either TvT or TvM, their interactions are so weird lmao. they are just never partners



he listed her in top townreads, she scumread him and voted him all phase, then he tries to lead a CFD onto her last minute and pleads to everyone to evaluate her?



> "ur desperate, nice omgus"

>"this isn't omgus, your vote on me was an irrelevant coincidence" i lol'd



anyway endless usually does a pretty good job in explaining his reads but i don't connect how what he's saying links to scum!guava when it's easily attributed to her just feeling like her vote doesn't matter enough and having no real gut feeling/strong read on who mafia was on d1?

SR on Endless, once again protecting Guava

I am not liking their constant glow sheeping and while I tend to be memey/chaotic at times, they tend to do so in a very disruptive and unhelpful way. Plus evasive answers to questions

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2020

Glow is still on me for having strong opinions when I came in to the thread with a new pair of eyes and wasn’t slogging through a bunch of irrelevant stuff. Ok lol. If you’re going to pin kat’a death on me I’m going to pin dedenne’s death right back to you. Your standard ain’t so good when applied to yourself now is it?

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2020

Notice what I’m not doing. I’m not trying to claim regret on Kat based on what I said 5 mins before EoD. If I really believed Kat was town I’d have switched but I didn’t because I felt she was scum and was willing to hear consequences for it if she wasn’t

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2020

*face consequences

well my uneasiness of you is a lot more nuanced than "endless only pushed me to see if he could lead an ML on me" but i don't think ive stated it well



fmpov you seemed more passive than i would have expected in regards to kat's lynch toward the end, you didn't speak on it too much as the day was progressing -- mostly because we were having a back and forth that lasted majority of the day phase. i don't think this [passiveness] is in-character for you because



1.)

you are usually pretty in depth as far as your commentary on the current game state/direction goes



2.)

you did / not / scumread kat (you stated that much at the time, as well as today) but you also did not object because you did not townread kat either.



this sounds like you weren't sure on kat, but the thing is i actually remember you feeding into aerious' read at one point by saying you didn't "hate the push anymore" towards the last 3-4 or so hours. (i can't remember when/if you said you hated it?)



i get you were trying to solve me and i don't think that was pointless, but i guess i would have expected you to be more assertive toward who you would have MOST wanted to be lynched sometime during the onslaught, rather than seemingly agreeing with kat's lynch half heartedly only to later find the target you would have ideally wanted to be lynched in the last few minutes



SO if you're mafia you're doing fine either way in whatever direction your push went -- pushing on me and getting me lynched would be a successful ML, and if the lynch doesn't grain traction then pushing on me and retracting it later -- as town ML'd on their own -- would demonstrate town-like fluidity and your hands would be clean from the ML, which would be a smart move

ok this is a bleeding town post, tone 2 genuine for me and i'm against a guava lynch come @ me endless

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

yes.

Guava is town!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :33333333333 <333333333

the guy has no self-preservation, he's goading antonio to vote him with memes and i hate. it.

No self pres, what a way to get Antonio to bite onto your wagon

he said "vote me then!" and posted the lucille ball meme



no self preservation as in he just gives a couple reasons for why he's town and says "well, yall are doing enough to defend me!" i feel like there'd be more desperation at this point

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

also the thing about wanting ace/tensu when he dies kind of gives me town vibe cos he wants to at least provide dying wishes

So you… changed your mind?

yeah i think evan has maj rn



i will say it's so weird evan dropped the endless sus and is now gunning for tensu/ace? who i'm not even gonna lie, i can't read at all.

Trying to provide town with something before he goes

Guava: D1: No vote D2: Endless D3: Tensu
TL;DR This pomegranate is wildly scummy and refuses to acknowledges it. D1 begins on Endless, consistently points fingers, removes vote from an inactive to “appease to town” while opting for a NL against town’s wishes. It’s hypocrisy central and her FOS is a loose cannon. Her and Glow have the best synergy and have consistently defended each other.

Spoiler

with how little has actually happened since last night and EOD is in ~12 hrs, if not a whole lot happens i'm casting my vote for endless.



purely just bcos i don't like when ppl try that hard to steer/control the game. it's a game, you should be able to work with the content that the players provide without adding caveats.

Beginning of the Endless tunnel

is that why i have the urge to scroll past them




lol i actually think ace’s lack of activity is kinda interesting compared to the last game. he’s not as back and forth this game? could be schedule based tho.



not sussing just o b s e r v i n g

Points out Ace’s lack of activity

w/e if town thinks it bad to vote inactive ill withdraw my vote

Pulls vote on Evan because it’s a hindrance to town

im not digging this wagon lol i think antonio is just impulsive from what i remember in our short mafia encounter.

Defends Antonio D1

my thoughts and prayers are with the thread and hope ur pick of antonio flips maf

it wouldn't make a dif



im no vote atm and there's 3 for ant and 2: for dedenne and im not actually voting random like that lol

No votes even though she withdrew a vote to appease to town, actively participating in something more anti-town under the guise of wanting to.. help town?

good morning karens



can’t believe you’re already complaining about me!



re: my no vote, it’s pretty consistent in my meta that i don’t vote at random like we did eod. i was happy voting inactive because it was a way to at least ML someone who literally has added nothing to the game. but i heard all the karen cries about how “that’s a waste” and blah blah blah.



i did mention dedenne being maf early on when Kat asked me but that was 100% not serious and a legit random pick. i was not voting on a random pick on an active player.



anyway need to look back at the whole dedenne wagon.

Wants to appease to town, but still no voted

tbh the only thing i've taken away from today is:

1. something abt annie reads off to me (scumpona returns, coming soon to theatres near you)

2. honestly why wasnt endless axed like wouldn't mafia want to get rid of him asap? he's got the wallposts and is very thorough.

SL on Epona, Endless alive

tbh im kind of put off by this.



i want to believe endless is town but it rlly just doesn't make sense. he's had some of the most detailed posts re: game reads/game in general and he's town reading me and epona (who i sus on gut reasons more than anything else) and scumread antonio who legit doesn't appear scummy to me, just a bit erratic if anything.



if i were maf i would've immediately taken this dude out so i'm like.. hunny why r u still here??? r u scum??





i just like posts baby.



i've always said don't read into my likes bcos they literally are me liking the post detached from gameplay. they're meaningless and if u wanna sr me for that go ahead but look @ any of my mafia games and i'm liking **** up and down. i've actually had to tone it down bcos everyone loves reading way too deep into it.

Post automatically merged: Aug 17, 2020

hi do u have any ideas for why scum would want to keep him around if he rlly is town?

I actually think the reasoning on an Endless case is poor. Also compared to Janitorial (where guava was scum), kills were randomized and with poor reasoning. Stronger players kept alive

if we axe endless i think it could give us the most info. i’m keeping my vote as it is.



why are we pushing so hard on kat when she’s not here atm? is this different than me wanting to vote evan as inactive yesterday?

Endless provides us with all of nothing. His reads have logic behind them and aren’t out of nowhere

she might be. i think town's getting played like a fiddle :uwu:

v confused by the cfd too, like my man endless was really attempting to cfd 3 minutes until eod?????



ladies, its time for this photo again!!!!!




@Endless , on the one hand i guess i get it as an omgus but i voted you waaay early in d2, it just feels desperate. but idk if it feels desperate scum or town tbh. on the one hand its very town because i can see how ppl might be scumleaning/null on me, however you had town read me? (you did say it was weak however)



can u explain some more n pls don't call me out for lack of game content my is struglgign bro

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2020

see also:




thoughts anyone??? :>

i think its cheap



i wanted to axe evan as inactive bcos at the time i actually felt that given all that had spoken, his slot had to be scum. pretty sure it was endless who said that was a dumb idea and very "not town." so.... the fact that he's now avoided a vote on evan twice is worth a question ig



also this isn't me scum leaning evan, im still pretty null on him.

OMGUS is strong. When scum, try to deflect onto me, even tho it’s a wagon w/o wheels

i'm for an evan vote i think

GIRL…….. “I’m still pretty null on him” “I’m for an Evan vote I think” ok

i don’t care if glow is scum i like the road they’re on

I have nothing to say to this. Me and Endless are a scumteam because I thought he should survive D1, and this doesn’t make you a scumteam w/ Glow?

im town i hid it in white text a while ago

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2020

uwu

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2020

anyway it's officially later, and honestly im confused. so basically i was trying to bait endless by acting super scummy to see if they would scapegoat me and endless took that so... i'm wondering if that's a galaxy level scum play or he's actually town. if he's actually town then his reads must be entirely wrong and mafia could be using that as cover?

Hehe I’m not scum even though I’ve been scummy 3 days straight XD :3333 it was a ploy to frame Endless! Even though I’ve been gunning to remove him for 3 days straight!

this is trying so hard to make me out to be mafia and realistically it doesn’t take this much effort to make me out to seem mafia rn.



i said that bc endless took the bait and started pushing on me that it makes me question if he’s scum. scum wouldn’t take such a cheap set up because when i flip town you’ll have a huge reason to sus endless. i don’t imagine scum endless doing that unless they’re the voice of reason for maf and are putting on such a show for maf to hide in? i mean he really cites everything.

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2020

additionally, if he is town which i think is likely, it means he’s been wrong this whole time and maf is using it to their advantage is all.

OMGUS 2.0

ur right lets go after ace!



no but seriously remember early on when ace said something abt being afraid to post and that explaining his lack of activity?



what if the lack of activity is him being really careful to not give anything away?? because i feel like i have seen ace in this game but it doesn’t feel the same.

Deflects onto Ace

don’t go for me for the sole purpose of lhf like come onnnnnnn

Truly believes she is LHF because it’s mentioned, though her actions are incredibly scummy

nope. again, i said what i said: it’s not to ML town but bcos ur reads are actually supplemented by a ton of quotes, you’re a good shield for maf to hide behind.



who u go after makes no diff!!

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

i can compromise and join this, what annie said is really fair.

Endless is alive to help mafia hide??

just trust me!

This is so garbage

wow actually not anticipating that.



ugh anyway i will try to be as active early today but might not b around until late saturday :x

pomegrates it time for this.

This is so lazy lol

 

[radical6]

do u think glow/endless/guava team is possible, well ik ur stoll posting

 

[Aerious]

Epona: D1 Vote: Dedenne D2: Kat D3: Tensu
TL;DR D1 against an inactive lynch because it typically winds up being town, especially if they won’t defend themselves. Believed Antonio town. Faster wagon on Antonio (even though his behavior was scummier), therefore Antonio = town. No self-pres also led to town decision, despite Antonio believing self-pres = town behavior. Didn’t provide Antonio read in readslist. Thinks Tensu/Radical are scumteam even though both have been inactive.

Spoiler

because in my experience constructing a wagon on someone who we know in advance won't be around to defend themselves invariably ends up killing town

Against inactive because it’ll kill town, know in advance won’t be around to defend themselves will kill town

it's been noted, and my reluctance to vote them in the first place was how many people were considering them

i'm not confident with my vote and will happily switch to a better wagon if there is one but rn i need to vote and i am also not ruling out the possibility of bussing

Doesn’t want to vote for someone bc fast wagon

i hate this

'a ton of intel' just because i townread her is a reach

Against a lean because of townread

i am telling you now that even if you were to lynch for inactivity, out of all of them evan has the best shot of being town

this is literally just voting to kill town

Calls out Antonio for anti-town.

i think i prefer a dedenne lynch over antonio but i'm pretty sure both of these wagons are town

my ronishy island is clearly pointless

i'm switching to dedenne because antonio is pretty obviously town by that counterwagon formation

Wants to pursue an anti-town wagon, thinks Ronishy is scum, switches to Dedenne who had a faster wagon than Antonio.

because an off-wagon vote is useless and performative as far as i'm concerned

antonio is pretty much locktown for me after eod yesterday, they didn't even self-pres and that wagon gained traction way too quickly



i was townreading dedenne but not off anything concrete i just didn't think the case against her had any merit, but after the counterwagon formed on antonio in literally 5 seconds i wasn't sure so i changed my vote to save antonio because i was way more certain about them



100% agree that guava's no vote sucks though

Post automatically merged: Aug 16, 2020

by 'off-wagon vote' i mean a vote for voting's sake that clearly is not going to have an impact on the actual lynch for the day

Locks town on Antonio, even though his wagon wasn’t fastest, and no self-preservation

1) wagon against them formed extremely quickly with people citing their 'sketchy behaviour' but not actually elaborating on what exactly they were scumreading them for, i'm pretty sure kat even did a u-turn on her earlier townlean on them but will have to look back on that

2) antonio didn't bother to self-pres onto dedenne when they was looking like the lynch target at EOD which is pretty much always stubborn town move. i do not see a w!antonio t!dedenne world where antonio doesn't self-pres onto dedenne. it makes no sense

3) nothing about their behaviour pings me as different to their playstyle in the past. their general defensiveness, AtE and outspokenness makes them LHF for maf to mislynch and i'm not going for it

Post automatically merged: Aug 16, 2020

i think the impression i got of the wagon speed wasn't necessarily the three votes that appeared toward EOD (although that was a factor, it was a very slow day with pretty much 0 vote movement or discussion until very close to EOD) but moreso the atmosphere in the thread when those votes started picking up



these posts were all within minutes of each other: (i know the dedenne point is useless bc we now know she's town but we didn't at the time)













it's less the speed of the wagon and more that it seemed like everyone was up for lynching him which spewed him town for me



that said, when going back to grab those quotes there are a few people (guava and volt, also kat i think) voicing concern at how easily people were potentially flipping to the antonio wagon so it is possibly not as dramatic as i was remembering. volt is confirmed townie now though so that takes some weight out of that



either way he's still my strongest townread atm

Antonio town bc no self pres

whew if you think that self-presing is sus this is going to be an interesting game

Self-pres is not sus

i want to respond to this and say there is a difference between townreading someone for something, and not scumreading them for something.



i am townreading antonio because of the way EOD went with the threadspewing and the lack of self-pres. i'm not townreading them for their playstyle, i said it doesn't ping me the way it has pinged other people because i recognise it from when i had played a game with them as town before:







i didn't say this was specifically antonio's town meta, just that i'm not getting the same scumread from it that other people are because i know antonio plays this way as town. whether they plays this was as scum too is irrelevant to my point; their playstyle so far in this game does not bring up any scummy red flags for me.



i'm pointing this out because it's the second time you've brought up the 'meta is just meta' point, which tensu then sheeped 30 minutes later, and i don't like having what i say being misrepresented

i've explained it and cannot explain it further

my vote on ronishy was doing nothing, antonio was set to be lynched, i felt stronger about antonio being town than i did about dedenne so i changed my vote to save antonio



if you don't like it that's fine but i really can't elaborate on it further

i do agree that kat's eod looked bad because it felt like hedging, but i feel like i kind of did the same thing and it came from a place of genuine uncertainty for me so i just don't really know if it's AI



like idk about anyone else but i had 0 confidence at all for the entirety of day 1. it felt like discussion was really stifled and nobody was really that interested in talking about anything. the activity in the last hour was good but it almost felt like people had forgotten about the game up to that point

yeah i understand what you mean

re: the bolded it pinged me too but my tinfoil was a kat/dedenne team and that kat was setting me up to be framed in the event dedenne was the lynch (at the time, dedenne was the only one who had been cased so it was entirely plausible she'd be lynched without kat actually having to actively bus). obviously i've abandoned that now though bc dedenne flipped town



i'll try and make a readslist now before i go to sleep. it won't necessarily be ordered bc honestly i don't know where i am in terms of making a tiered list but i'll just post my thoughts

Kat’s EOD looked bad, abandoned tinfoil

to be honest after going through volt's ISO i don't really think they were killed for their reads, unless it's an attempt to frame mog or kat? but in my experience framing doesn't really happen as much as people like to think it does

i'd give mog and kat both more credit than killing someone who was scumleaning them, although none of volt's reads were that confident or strongly expressed so idk



i forget who said it but i agree that their last post right before the thread was locked for n1 seemed very genuine in tone and they may just have been killed because they weren't a foreseeable ML in the future

Would like to give Kat more credit, but voted her anyways EOD with my tinfoil

reads list let's go



1) Arstotzkan

it pinged me 100% when kat said that she wanted dedenne to flip because it would provide 'huge intel' on me. looking back at the response i made to glow about her case on dedenne, which i only even made because glow and i were both liveposting in the thread at the time, it's hard to even see it as a defence as opposed to me just bouncing glow's ideas back to her because i didn't think they were worth scumreading somebody off of. BUT as i said earlier this pinged me because i thought maybe kat/dedenne were teamed and kat was setting me up for a frame when dedenne flipped maf which obviously didn't happen

even outside of that tinfoil it was still a weird thing to do, i wasn't townlocking dedenne, i wasn't even clear whether i was townreading them at all until a few posts later so i don't really know where kat's thought process was coming from there. i'm not sure if it's necessarily scummy but it does feel a bit tmi that kat would basically townlock me after dedenne flipped town. aerious' case on kat makes sense to me so i'm willing to vote kat today



2) Ronishy

i still have a gut scumread on ronishy. i've preferred their thread presence today but i don't know why people are townreading them based on the 'mafia haven't come to my defence' post. afaik this is ronishy's first game but they spectated the last game, and there was a lot of that logic being used in terms of who should/shouldn't be lynched so it doesn't really surprise me that they pulled that card. either way i don't think anyone is with me on this so it's not a priority today



3) guav@

i will say time and time again that i have no idea how to read guava because she's chaotic as hell but i really think she's coasting this game, her post count is decent but most of it has no substance and i can't really remember anything she's done besides a bogus FoS on me based on a 'back and forth' that never happened. she's gotten pretty much no heat at all so far and idk why



4) tensu

kind of null on tensu but i don't like the parroting that's going on. that said i feel like they sort of have a confidence (??) about them that makes me think they're probably not scum. this is a tonal read more than anything else ig



5) endless

i find endless' posts really difficult to read he kinda talks like professor layton (no hate i love professor layton) and it makes it difficult to parse through his wallposts. i feel like a lot of his reads are along the lines of 'you read this person this way and i read them the same way but for different reasons which means your reasons are wrong therefore i'm scumreading you' and i don't really know how to feel about that. i guess i'm a bit wary because the entire thread seems to treat him like some big bad with a notorious reputation but i've never played with him before so it means nothing to me. he asks a lot of questions but i need to see whether those questions actually lead anywhere or if it's just performative



6) mogyay

literally a total null girlie has like 6 posts



7) amazonevan

again pretty null i need to wait and see more. i don't really think he's scum though and i think his d1 activity (or lack thereof) is being used against him in a LHF-y way



8) mylifeiscake

again a null i need to ISO them bc i literally don't remember anything they've said



9) glow

i'm not buying the case on glow it's weak and reliant on her leading the lynch on dedenne yesterday when we all saw how dry yesterday was. so much stock is being place on my interaction with her re: her dedenne read and i think it's opportunistic bc that interaction was liveposting and really not a big deal. i hate her read on evan but i think it's maybe just a bit tilted? either way i don't really see her as scum but i guess this is pretty null



10) ace marvel

i have a tendency to overlook ace because i'm so familiar with his weird playstyle by now and it makes me maybe a bit blind to the actual content of his posts. either way i don't see anything different between his playstyle now and his usual vanilla townie playstyle. we haven't seen him as scum yet as far as we know so meta reads only go so far but he played really differently as a town PR so i'm inclined to just trust him for now. i'll revisit this eventually and it's a weak townlean as opposed to a townread but nothing has pinged me so far



11) aerious

aerious probably my biggest townread outside of antonio, i think she's the person who is working on progressing the game most so far and her case on kat doesn't feel scum motivated at all. like it's based on actual evidence and is consistent which is more than can be said for pretty much anything else so far lol



12) antonio

Nothing on Antonio, no correction due to formatting, etc. Dislikes Glow’s read on Evan. Aligned with my case on Kat. Thinks Tensu is town

elaborate on mog? i don't townread her but i don't have enough to SL her for now



i'm heading out for the night and will not be here for EOD so gonna put a vote on kat. i think you're right about her and her flip will be really useful so letz go

Voted Kat, stayed on wagon

yeah kat based on everyone's arguments yesterday, then rosh, and then guava



guava come here hunny its time for your interview

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2020

fwiw i do think i need to reevaluate antonio bc my current reads just don't make sense with the gamestate

Realizes wrong

what grates me about guava is that aerious is right it shouldn't come to everyone scumreading her but knowing there's a massive possibility she'll flip town even if her behaviour warrants suspicion/being the lynch



it's a bit of a slap to everyone who actually puts effort into the game. i'm not saying guava doesn't put effort in because she obviously follows the thread closely, and reading everything in itself requires massive effort, but i guess i wish she'd just try harder to actually convince us and reassure us that she's town instead of leaving it to each player's internal guava-mental-struggle by just posting memes as responses to pushes against her



like i genuinely feel like she's been playing scummy but i also know her flip is literally 50/50. if it were another player playing in the same manner i'd be scumreading them like crazy right now



i'm frustrated

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 12:57 PM

someone talk 2 me

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 12:59 PM

it's going to get to 30 mins before EOD and then become suddenly chaotic again isn't it

This is towny af

ADD THIS SECTION TO THE BEGINNING OF MY LAST POST:







it's not a strong townread per se, more of a townlean because he's not a scumread if that makes sense



i've just liked his content since he came in and i haven't been pinged by anything

i also don't think the total lack of activity d1 was scummy. being inactive to the point of legitimately risking a modkill isn't a valid scum tactic imo, like to not even post once makes me think he genuinely did just forget about the game and that feels more townie than anything unless he legit just never even read his role PM until d2 (which is possible)



however you did remind me of a thought i had last night:



[insert the last post here]

TL on Evan

ok i just ISO'd tensu



there's not a lot of content there and a lot of it feels like posting to be active but not actually posting anything susbtansial

i recommend people skim through their iso themselves bc i was going to quote a lot of stuff and then realised every quote would kind of be for the same purpose i.e. to show how they actually have not been contributing a lot and coasting, so you guys can just look at that for yourselves (there's only 2 pages)



here's what i did pick out:







first post is a justification for lack of posts which is something i personally Do Not Like but it's not necessarily AI, however it does happen again later in the thread so threw it in







someone commented on this before, i can't remember who but think it may have been evan? that this post basically feels like tensu is describing their own behaviour in the thread

also would like to point out that tensu declares flat-out opposition to lynching inactives here



and here



and here



and here

4 posts in a 1.5 page iso regarding how bad an idea lynching inactives would be sticks out to me. i think this points to tensu being scum partners with either the radical6 slot or, as i already mentioned, with evan

those were the 2 inactives on the table to be lynched and it makes sense that tensu would try to steer away from that d1 instead of bussing



this makes me think a tensu/radical team is a possibility







more inactivity excuses

i don't really care about activity like people have stuff to do it's a busy time i 100% understand that but when a large portion of your posting is just making excuses for where you've been then what's the point

just don't say anything at all it's pointless filler imo



i'm probably gonna vote for tensu

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

i honestly don't know

guava's playstyle is quite heavily reliant on claiming/PRs so it's difficult to read her in a vacuum when it's a mountainous setup

i've said from the start i'm trash at reading her

Mentions previously that she’s against voting inactives because it’ll kill town, still believes Tensu/Radical to be scumteam

antonio/guava not w/w tbh it went on for too long for that to be theatre

I disagree with this because of how Guava is as a person

i would probably agree with all this more, specifically the dying wishes bit, if it were closer to EOD but that was with over an hour to go which gives people a lot of time to react to that post and change their mind



i wish we could solve tensu/evan at the same time

i think i'm sticking to tensu though i feel good about it

this entry is scummy as hell

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

guys someone switch to tensu plz nelnfkgwse,v

Trying to save Evan and kill Tensu

at least nobody will be tinfoiling cake today



tensu/radical are teamed. change my mind

Jumped on Tensu/Radical

Radical: Straight up useless slot, wasted town. No offense. Love you.



Teams: Epona/Antonio

Glow/Guava/ Potential Antonio (?)

Tensu/Endless/Ace

Straight up town 100% in my mind: Radical

Now, I can't believe I tried so hard for what's going to be a town loss. I'm obviously not scum and I didn't just spend 4 hours doing this garbage to become an easy wagon. I can't believe the fact that 2 people play this way bc "meta" and 3 people have actively been anti-town

Post automatically merged: Aug 21, 2020

do u think glow/endless/guava team is possible, well ik ur stoll posting

Pls read posts. No ninja.

 

[radical6]

srry

also i dont see a wagon starting on you...? no one is voting on you nor are they pushing a lynch on you

so yeah im tring aerious just coz that effort tbh, like she coulda done endless level post to confirm herself but this game is sort of like..gonna be a maf sweep and would be rly easy to just let down. idk why she thinks shes going to be an easy wagon, unless something forms in 12 hrs

well anyway we have less than like 12 hrs to vote, idk id rather we form a consensus on who we should vote instead of a cfd. id like to talk now bc im gonna pass out soon and will wake up at 2 hours before eod probably

so yeah, im not townreading her cos she townlocked me but moreso there was no point in mafia aerious spending like 3 hours to look good in just like my eyes.

im fine wit:
glow or guava bc if one is scum it kind of confirms the other

im open to anyone else though

 

[Aerious]

srry

also i dont see a wagon starting on you...? no one is voting on you nor are they pushing a lynch on you

so yeah im tring aerious just coz that effort tbh, like she coulda done endless level post to confirm herself but this game is sort of like..gonna be a maf sweep and would be rly easy to just let down. idk why she thinks shes going to be an easy wagon, unless something forms in 12 hrs

well anyway we have less than like 12 hrs to vote, idk id rather we form a consensus on who we should vote instead of a cfd. id like to talk now bc im gonna pass out soon and will wake up at 2 hours before eod probably

so yeah, im not townreading her cos she townlocked me but moreso there was no point in mafia aerious spending like 3 hours to look good in just like my eyes.

im fine wit:
glow or guava bc if one is scum it kind of confirms the other

im open to anyone else though

Lazy wagons for this day were on me

I do think it's plausible, Endless didn't really push that hard on Glow. Same thing with Antonio. If Antonio, Guava, Tensu, and Ace flip town and Glow/Epona/Endless is scum, there's no way to win this game

 

[radical6]

yeah like i said earlier i think its odd they swapped views of each other but never actively push for a lynch.

why do you think if glow is scum then guava is town? or do you think if guava flips town first then glow is scum and just putting epona in bc of PoE?

also im not sure what you mean lazy wagons, i dont see any wagons starting on you? like no one has actively pushed a lynch on you, at this point i feel like we are gonna cfd on someone like guava or something

 

[Aerious]

yeah like i said earlier i think its odd they swapped views of each other but never actively push for a lynch.

why do you think if glow is scum then guava is town? or do you think if guava flips town first then glow is scum and just putting epona in bc of PoE?

also im not sure what you mean lazy wagons, i dont see any wagons starting on you? like no one has actively pushed a lynch on you, at this point i feel like we are gonna cfd on someone like guava or something

When did I say that? I think Glow/Guava are a scum team possibility. If Glow is maf -> Guava is maf. Guava tried to start a rly horrible wagon on me. I don't want Guava dead today, I'd honestly prefer Epona/Glow for a high risk/high reward. Tomorrow is MYLO, don't want it to be a complete sweep.

Post automatically merged: Aug 21, 2020

I do think there is scum in (at least one of) Ace, Antonio, and Guava. 21 games doesn't leave leeway to play this way for Ace's behalf. Antonio has been trying to help, but hypocritical along the way w/o providing reads. Guava's caused chaos, which has been wildly anti-town. Wanted to appease to town D1, didn't do that at all, while Glow pocketed. My cases aren't the strongest, and hopefully others can actually contribute and ISO others instead of blindly following me ^_^

 

[radical6]

ur comment on how if guava is town then glow is mafia, i think i misunderstood. well anyway

i forgot guava tried, i kind of skimmed over her posts cos idk if she was serious on u when her votes are like her voting for me and then unvoting and voting for someone else.

i wish we werent the only ones awake rn cos like even if we agree on glow or epona idk if ace, antnio, or guava will. idk what endless will do and maybe stick to wanting to lynch guava

i hope to sleep soon so im down to voting for one of them rn just in case i dont wake up in time.

Post automatically merged: Aug 21, 2020

i do feel like voting for glow is slightly better bc it can confirm guava or not

also i just remembered epona was the first one to sort of brush guava off by saying her meta is always to be chaotic

 

[Endless]

Since there's discussion around "now w/w" reads, I'll dump mine at the head of my post.

Spoiler: not w/w

guav@/glow: extremely weird buddy behaviour. If this is actually w/w then I'll be both impressed and disappointed - if that makes sense.
guav@/Antonio: So not many people remember this, but guav@ was requested by volt to vote dedenne (over Antonio) near the end of day 1, and guav@ pretty much flat out refused. At the time of refusal, it was actually 4 dedenne/3 Antonio however in the post guav@ refused she stated that it "didn't look like a dedenne lynch was happening", and there were 2 votes on dedenne 3 minutes before that post - so I believe guav@ thought Antonio was set to be lynched regardless of guav@'s alignment. (Hence making Antonio/guav@ absolutely not a team.)
glow/Antonio: So Antonio more or less spent the entirety of day 2 death tunneling glow - and I think it's pertinent to mention that there was already pressure on her when he started, so it's not like "he was pushing his team-mate in a scenario where she wouldn't be in danger". The wagon did eventually not really properly form, but I don't think that takes away from this read. In addition, they're now at each other's throat. Dunno, would be impressed if this was a team.

glow:

Spoiler

Primarily this read is because I fail to see a universe in which she's scum with either of my top scumreads, and overall also don't have any large issues with any of her reads or pushes. (Mostly explained in last reads post.)
Also thought her hopping off the evan wagon only to hop back on was kinda towny - only rationale which I can come up with to do this as mafia is "playing as you would as town" which she's absolutely capable of, but I still think this is a point in favour of her being town.

Aerious:

Spoiler

Oozes town panic.
In particular I'm a huge fan of her scuffed reads post.
I will take this moment to point out however that you (Aerious) are scumreading glow for scumreading dedenne's entry where in actual fact (and I had to put in serious effort to obtain this) glow actually lynched dedenne based on tone, so consequently this is a non-point.
EDIT: This is put in last minute because I hit the "view" button to view new posts and Aerious has an ISO of me in it, so I figured I'd respond.
a) townread on glow is (and always has been) primarily from poe, as she's just absolutely not a team with all my scumreads.
b) I did push quite hard on glow when I was attempting to ascertain her reasoning for the d1 lynch? I wrote like a madman on that one.
c) I presented being happy with the evan wagon since significantly earlier in the day - I only switched off my preferred lynch because Tensu (who I had no read on) was being thrust into the spotlight as an alternate lynch.

Ace Marvel:

Spoiler

I'm not going to pretend to be able to read this player.
Has posted explanation for his reads post, I thought the Aerious point was kinda genuine in that it examines a scenario post-him flipping town, that said, I just don't fully understand the reasoning behind some of points - so I'm going to leave him stuck at null for now.

radical6(mogyay)

Spoiler

Now has a wall post with some content, but still don't really think there's enough here to read into properly. There's no opinions presented here that I find overwhelmingly unreasonable or enlightening, but I figured I might respond to the first point in their wall post here:
It was in response to Aerious criticising me for my townread of guav@, saying she'd "made the same mistake" of townreading a player for being "genuine" in the previous game. To which I responded with that - i.e. I don't think it was a mistake for her to townread someone for being genuine, even if she was wrong. To not do it anymore because she was wrong is just results oriented thinking.

epona:

Spoiler

I would like to say that primarily, I have no issue with epona's content - this is almost entirely a process of elimination read.
That is to say, I'm pretty convinced there's at least one mafia out of Aerious/epona/glow and I townread glow/Aerious more.
With that said, in general understand almost if not all of epona's content and can see where it's coming from.

Tensu:

Spoiler

this post reads awful.
That's pretty much all I got here - he expressed a lot of the same points as me day 1/2, but had his own content. (i.e. ronishy townread, expressed pretty well honestly.)
Mentions that the "scum will keep the Tensu wagon rolling d4", would like him to clarify which players that were on his wagon he thinks are mafia?

guav@:

Spoiler

So a key aspect I use when reading players is the motivation behind a player's action. Why did they do what they did?
I firmly believe that all players have motivation behind their action - and if it's town motivation, that should be discernible.

So let's cover the majority of guav@'s content:
Asserts epona is mafia for <reason that was incorrect and pointed out by epona>, does not draw any conclusions from this. (So it is reasonable to assume that they genuinely thought this was reasoning that epona was mafia.)
Asserts that I am mafia for not dying. (Can't fault this but it is really annoying and, dare I say, LHF)
Then "strengthens" her scumread on me by saying some of my reads are weird - including my scumread on the person I lead a lynch on d1. Obviously this is incorrect and I point it out.
Once again, she comes back to "strengthen" her scumread on me, by saying my vote on her was "desparate" d2. I asked her to justify this and she never did. (That I can find)
Then lists evan as null, to immediately vote them an hour later without further discussion.
Initially she claimed that this was to "trap" me, but then renegged on this and said it was more of a reaction test, and that her vote was real. (Making the shift from null to lynch target still weird.)
No one really paid much attention to this, but guav@ had a subtle push on ace yesterday, for reasoning that wasn't terrible. (Actually liked this post ftr, but doesn't detract from the rest of the terrible posts.)
Day 5, she shifts her views to Endless/Aerious/Ace team and decides to vote me because "it provides the most information".
Which is just awful play when we only have a single mislynch left.

So in summary, almost all of the actions listed above are actions I just can't understand the motivation for.
For example, it is much easier to explain her continual pushes on me for different (usually incorrect) logic as her deciding I'm mafia then trying to justify it - a behaviour that makes much more sense as mafia than town.
It is very important to note however that I don't think this is remotely compatible with my other strongest scumread.

Antonio:

Spoiler

Day 1 attempted an rng lynch, got called out on it, claimed it was a joke, then attempted it again.
Also on Day 1, he failed to really self-preserve in any way, even voting the alternate wagon.
However, in the latest day phase he justified his vote on evan twice, stating that he "didn't know why someone town alignned would give up". (#1, #2)
This is obviously incredibly hypocritical behaviour which is much more common among mafia players.
Glow is pressuring him hard over his push on evan during the end of day 3 based on evan's (I thought obvious) joke putting of himself as mafia in his own reads - but I don't think this is necessarily AI. I think it's awful reasoning but he wasn't the only one that expressed it - Aerious also presented the exact same view point.

But I do agree that he's likely mafia, unfortunately he doesn't mesh very well with my other strong scumread.

Best guess for a team right now would be (guav@/Antonio)+Tensu+epona. And no I don't think epona's push on Tensu makes them not teamed.

 

[radical6]

but glow has been more vocal about guava than epona, but im not sure if scum glow and epona would both try to defend guava though, i feel like theyd realize thats risky and try to distance themselves from each other but idk i dont think theyd think people would try to zoom in on epona once sort of defending guava and oh abes awake

Post automatically merged: Aug 21, 2020

i think my problem with a scum team with both antonio and guava is that i feel like..theyd sort of need someone to lead them? like i dont think the kill pattern would match them, idk i know this is sort of w/e reasoning. id also think theyd be more careful if they had 2 sort of..memey players.

unfortunately i dont think antonio being hypocrritical is a huge deal, i sort of have always seen him being hypocritical in games and have sort of written it off as apart of his personality.. back then he used to be mad at like punchy for certain behaviors and then would partake in them again. i guess you could be right that him being hypocritical is a scummy thing but im sort of relying on his meta/personality, i guess i should throw his meta thing out. but im not surprised by his hypocrisy. he does this sometimes in mafia.

 

[Endless]

@radical6 @Aerious Can you please explain your guav@ / glow team read to me in more depth? I pretty solidly read that as not a team.

 

[radical6]

for me it mostly stems from glow sort of defending guava, guava hasnt interacted much with glow herself though. its sort of weak on my part, im honestly not that dedicated to this game bc of irl matters, kind of wish i just let this slot get modkilled tbh but i guess it provides town one more mylo so w/e.

who would be the 3rd scum with a guava/antonio team, like who do you think is most likely to lead them? epona?

Post automatically merged: Aug 21, 2020

i dont think ace/antonio scum team is possible though tbh. but im more inclined to believe a guava/glow team, maybe with either you or epona but epona seems more likely. like i know im relying on the kills too much but it makes sense for me for their kill patterns

like i honestly think if it was antonio/guava they wouldve gone for killing the actives and letting a mostly leaderless town sort of..flop around so i do think someone else is calling the shots on kills or persuading the other two, in the event theyre both scum with your worldview.

Post automatically merged: Aug 21, 2020

wait why do u say u dont read that as a team when theyre ur first pair in the spoiler

Post automatically merged: Aug 21, 2020

wait why do u say u dont read that as a team when theyre ur first pair in the spoiler

 

[Aerious]

@radical6 @Aerious Can you please explain your guav@ / glow team read to me in more depth? I pretty solidly read that as not a team.

There's a few reasons

• Appealing to Epona/me "pls don't be scum </3," but consistently defending Guava without any inclination of pro-town behavior.

• for the record i don't think you're mafia aerious.
  
  i don't even know if there's mafia this game probably geoni filled a game with 15 vanilla townies so we'd slowly come to the brink only to discover we're all on the same side and that the format of mafia games involves an "us" vs "them" psychology which is dangerous to tbt society and we'd unanimously agree to shut the cellars doors

• And everything I mentioned earlier. Glow's been ride or die for Guava with no apparent reason to me, and I find it hard to grasp the reasoning

I do think it's possible Ace is town just because of wanting to save me if he dies. Tensu could also easily be mafia for what happened EOD and how he deemed it to be scummy. If this is how Antonio plays, maybe they are town. There's been so much anti-town behavior that it's genuinely hard to sift through