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Mafia Russian Roulette Mafia - Endgame
- Thread starter N e s s
- Start date
illunie
girl now uwu
this is more of a case to shoot kat than that shes scum, even tho her being scum is a big part of it. ik that sounds super weird but hopefully it makes sense later on. ik a case after 10 pgs is dumb but we
1. shes prob scum
ok this has multiple parts to it so hold on
a. how aggressively shes pushing antonio
when i first started pressuring antonio, i did it as a sort of reaction test to see what he would respond with. (idk im usually non confrontational and i wanted to try it out) when antonio gave what i consider to be, not exactly good but not scummy responses, smth u would see from a bad town players, i was satisfied with it and was gonna stop until kat kept going with it. kat was still being super aggresive towards antonio, tunneling him and nitpicking every single thing. one example of how she tried to twist everything he said into being scummy is her interactions with him and ryu. when antonio stated that he had no real opinions on the game rn, she implied that it was a scummy stance to take:
however, when ryu didnt have any reads to share, kat was a lot more understanding towards her:
while i understand this isnt the exact same situation, this kind of double standard still worries me
kat has not had second thoughts about antonios allignment at all, despite his consistent replies to arguments against him. she even went as far as to try and shoot him without much proof, which is def smth town wouldnt do even if they believe the game is "solved" like kat (spoilers: it isnt) i believe this is bc kat knows shes basically powerless without a gun, and she needs to make sure that antonio dies quickly so that town doesnt work too much out. while i do agree that antonio has said some weird stuff in the game, i def think that kat is more scummy in the situation, and therefore should be shot first.
b. her buddying with ppl
kat has tried pretty hard over the course of this game to buddy up with townies to bring them over to her side. there are two examples of this, one being how understanding she has been towards ryu not having any concrete reads (see earlier, she was rly nice about her not having reads) and her strong tr of punchy for questionable reasons:
which even punchy himself called out as way to strong for the moment:
shes been way too nice to the few townies that she both thinks that she can manipulate into following her and that she thinks will be too hard to start a bw against, smth a town member prob wouldnt be doing. id expect her to be more suspicious of others as town than just having one sr (2 if u count me but i dont rly tbh)
c. her slight sus on me
before im called out as omgusing, i sr kat way before she posted this, i just didnt say anything bc i didnt have enough evidence to rly decisively prove it until now. (i started sussing her around when i stopped sring antonio and she kept going, pg 4 i think idk) i also would have the exact same argument if this was someone else, like dolby for instance. either way, she tried to tr enough to make me like her but not too much so that she could set me up for a bw in the future if the antonio one fails.
im guessing this is bc she believes me to be the strongest player other than herself and the biggest threat to her atm (for we reason) and she wants to make sure she leaves a back door open to kill me if the antonio bw doesnt work out. i dont wanna toot my own horn or we, and other ppl can confirm this, but i feel like i followed my meta pretty closely this game, so this weak tr with weak reasoning sets off some alarm bells in my head.
im guessing her scum strat this game is to kill antonio, turn town against me and then rng the 2v1 to win the game. town kat would prob, again, be way more sus than she is right now.
ok the next two points will be about why kat should be shot today. take into account that we have 3 kills until we lose, so even if all that argument towards her being scum is wrong kats death can still be benefitial towards town.
2. she gives a lot of info to town if she dies
even if kat is town, she gives us a lot of info we can use from her death. she has intereacted with every player in the game to some extent, particularly antonio, which means we can gain a lot of reads on ppl from her death.
3. we might as well lol
town has 3 kills at their disposal. probablity states that at least two of those kills will be used by town rather than maf, which def means we can afford to take a chance on who we kill. i think that kat is def the best option for us to kill rn. if she flips town (i dont think she will but we) we can kill antonio tomorrow. i rly think shes the best option for us to kill
hopefully thats good enough, idk tho.
1. shes prob scum
ok this has multiple parts to it so hold on
a. how aggressively shes pushing antonio
when i first started pressuring antonio, i did it as a sort of reaction test to see what he would respond with. (idk im usually non confrontational and i wanted to try it out) when antonio gave what i consider to be, not exactly good but not scummy responses, smth u would see from a bad town players, i was satisfied with it and was gonna stop until kat kept going with it. kat was still being super aggresive towards antonio, tunneling him and nitpicking every single thing. one example of how she tried to twist everything he said into being scummy is her interactions with him and ryu. when antonio stated that he had no real opinions on the game rn, she implied that it was a scummy stance to take:
however, when ryu didnt have any reads to share, kat was a lot more understanding towards her:
eh
I mean it has a 1/6th chance to hit, and Antonio is all but confirmed at the moment. I'll be shocked af if he's town
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Oof Im sorry about that
do you have a rankorder of people from most>least town, or are you just kinda up in the air at the moment?
Aye aye capt :^)
Anyway mini reads
Punchy - I can tell hes tryin to use logic + his anger at me shooting wask_hand:
Ryu - I feel like she'd be trying to be more focused on answers others wanna hear if she was scum
Rune - solid scumhunting, the false read vein of logic feels weak to me but overall solid points
Antonio - lmao
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that being said if Antonio's town, it's Rune, and if it isn't Rune I'll eat my hat
while i understand this isnt the exact same situation, this kind of double standard still worries me
kat has not had second thoughts about antonios allignment at all, despite his consistent replies to arguments against him. she even went as far as to try and shoot him without much proof, which is def smth town wouldnt do even if they believe the game is "solved" like kat (spoilers: it isnt) i believe this is bc kat knows shes basically powerless without a gun, and she needs to make sure that antonio dies quickly so that town doesnt work too much out. while i do agree that antonio has said some weird stuff in the game, i def think that kat is more scummy in the situation, and therefore should be shot first.
b. her buddying with ppl
kat has tried pretty hard over the course of this game to buddy up with townies to bring them over to her side. there are two examples of this, one being how understanding she has been towards ryu not having any concrete reads (see earlier, she was rly nice about her not having reads) and her strong tr of punchy for questionable reasons:
Aye aye capt :^)
Anyway mini reads
Punchy - I can tell hes tryin to use logic + his anger at me shooting was
Ryu - I feel like she'd be trying to be more focused on answers others wanna hear if she was scum
Rune - solid scumhunting, the false read vein of logic feels weak to me but overall solid points
Antonio - lmao
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that being said if Antonio's town, it's Rune, and if it isn't Rune I'll eat my hat
which even punchy himself called out as way to strong for the moment:
shes been way too nice to the few townies that she both thinks that she can manipulate into following her and that she thinks will be too hard to start a bw against, smth a town member prob wouldnt be doing. id expect her to be more suspicious of others as town than just having one sr (2 if u count me but i dont rly tbh)
c. her slight sus on me
before im called out as omgusing, i sr kat way before she posted this, i just didnt say anything bc i didnt have enough evidence to rly decisively prove it until now. (i started sussing her around when i stopped sring antonio and she kept going, pg 4 i think idk) i also would have the exact same argument if this was someone else, like dolby for instance. either way, she tried to tr enough to make me like her but not too much so that she could set me up for a bw in the future if the antonio one fails.
Aye aye capt :^)
Anyway mini reads
Punchy - I can tell hes tryin to use logic + his anger at me shooting was
Ryu - I feel like she'd be trying to be more focused on answers others wanna hear if she was scum
Rune - solid scumhunting, the false read vein of logic feels weak to me but overall solid points
Antonio - lmao
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that being said if Antonio's town, it's Rune, and if it isn't Rune I'll eat my hat
im guessing this is bc she believes me to be the strongest player other than herself and the biggest threat to her atm (for we reason) and she wants to make sure she leaves a back door open to kill me if the antonio bw doesnt work out. i dont wanna toot my own horn or we, and other ppl can confirm this, but i feel like i followed my meta pretty closely this game, so this weak tr with weak reasoning sets off some alarm bells in my head.
im guessing her scum strat this game is to kill antonio, turn town against me and then rng the 2v1 to win the game. town kat would prob, again, be way more sus than she is right now.
ok the next two points will be about why kat should be shot today. take into account that we have 3 kills until we lose, so even if all that argument towards her being scum is wrong kats death can still be benefitial towards town.
2. she gives a lot of info to town if she dies
even if kat is town, she gives us a lot of info we can use from her death. she has intereacted with every player in the game to some extent, particularly antonio, which means we can gain a lot of reads on ppl from her death.
3. we might as well lol
town has 3 kills at their disposal. probablity states that at least two of those kills will be used by town rather than maf, which def means we can afford to take a chance on who we kill. i think that kat is def the best option for us to kill rn. if she flips town (i dont think she will but we) we can kill antonio tomorrow. i rly think shes the best option for us to kill
hopefully thats good enough, idk tho.
Arstotzkan
A scum mom
Hm, depends on the type of idea. If it requires scum to not know some aspect of your plan it may be wisest to not mention it but lead players to try to see if they'd react in the way you're envisioning. If it's just a general straight up question sort of deal that wouldn't mean hiding information wouldn't be important to the plan, then fire away.
Arstotzkan
A scum mom
Before I even read that case, would like to say:
PLEASE PEOPLE. BREVITY DOES WONDERS TY BABES.
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Antonio/Ryu inconsistency with demanding reads
Antonio and Ryu are two different cases imo. Ryu not having thoughts doesn't surprise me. She generally likes taking her time with stuff like this and yeah I'm using meta here but her general tendency to not want to offend people is what I see taking priority here. Therefore, her not having a stance (especially since she likes focusing on townreading and not at all on scumreading) makes sense.
Antonio, on the other hand, was talking about how we need to take the game seriously and how the memes were bad and all of that. Him just not having a read felt extremely lame after all that's gone on in the thread at that point (he had people who were pressuring him, not to mention if he thought the memeing was bad surely he could have made some scumreads based on those memes).
My Townread of Punchy
I wasn't saying his questionable reads were what made him town, that's not a reason to townread someone lol. I meant his reads in general, aka his willingness to defend people and he was critically looking at people, which I feel like follows his general town play.
My "sus" on you
I don't sus you at all. I think you're the next most likely scum at the time of your post because of that weak point and how bleedingly obvious Ryu/Punchy are as town but overall you were still a solid townread for me. Just because you had bad logic doesn't mean I think you're scum. If I thought you were scum, I would have put you on orange or red.
Points 2 and 3
I mean you aint wrong lmao, I don't mind being shot. Antonio is pretty obvious scum though.
Also I know you say the game isn't solved but look from my PoV, ignore your sus on me. You look hella town, Punchy and Ryu are bloody obvious town, it really only comes down to Antonio out of PoE. And that's if you ignore his other sus **** he's done since.
PLEASE PEOPLE. BREVITY DOES WONDERS TY BABES.
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omg no I don't hate you I was memeing with the clock dw
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Antonio/Ryu inconsistency with demanding reads
Antonio and Ryu are two different cases imo. Ryu not having thoughts doesn't surprise me. She generally likes taking her time with stuff like this and yeah I'm using meta here but her general tendency to not want to offend people is what I see taking priority here. Therefore, her not having a stance (especially since she likes focusing on townreading and not at all on scumreading) makes sense.
Antonio, on the other hand, was talking about how we need to take the game seriously and how the memes were bad and all of that. Him just not having a read felt extremely lame after all that's gone on in the thread at that point (he had people who were pressuring him, not to mention if he thought the memeing was bad surely he could have made some scumreads based on those memes).
My Townread of Punchy
I wasn't saying his questionable reads were what made him town, that's not a reason to townread someone lol. I meant his reads in general, aka his willingness to defend people and he was critically looking at people, which I feel like follows his general town play.
My "sus" on you
I don't sus you at all. I think you're the next most likely scum at the time of your post because of that weak point and how bleedingly obvious Ryu/Punchy are as town but overall you were still a solid townread for me. Just because you had bad logic doesn't mean I think you're scum. If I thought you were scum, I would have put you on orange or red.
Points 2 and 3
I mean you aint wrong lmao, I don't mind being shot. Antonio is pretty obvious scum though.
Also I know you say the game isn't solved but look from my PoV, ignore your sus on me. You look hella town, Punchy and Ryu are bloody obvious town, it really only comes down to Antonio out of PoE. And that's if you ignore his other sus **** he's done since.
PunchyTheCat
Senior Member
how are my reads questionable and why am I bloody obvious town
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****how am I bloody obvious town
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****how am I bloody obvious town
Arstotzkan
A scum mom
hey wait if you said it doesn't really matter if one person dies why did you make such a big deal out of me shooting Antonio :eyes:
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Oh also
@Rune: Buddying isn't townreading someone alone. It like, agreeing with everything they're saying and being like "omg you're so right" yknow. I guess you could say that I'm trying to pocket them by townreading them but ye I explained reasoning above and ****
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Damn I keep getting more thoughts I need to like. collected them together before i post so I dont just make a garbled post
"i believe this is bc kat knows shes basically powerless without a gun"
Why would I shoot and get rid of my gun (I can't shoot until every single other alive player does now) if being without it would make me basically powerless and I only have a 1/6th chance reeeeeee. Plus reply to my thing above on what I think scum's best course of action would be with their gun.
Aye aye capt
That was towards you for saying dont shoot anymore lmao but I guess it doesnt really matter so w/e
No second thoughts on Antonio being town
Because his defenses have been garbage. If he made sense, I would have had second thoughts. But they don't, soooo.
You imply they did make sense. Howso, may I ask?
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Stuff like what you just said my man. I don't see scum!you asking these kinds of questions, I see you riding with it rather than questioning it.
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Oh also
@Rune: Buddying isn't townreading someone alone. It like, agreeing with everything they're saying and being like "omg you're so right" yknow. I guess you could say that I'm trying to pocket them by townreading them but ye I explained reasoning above and ****
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Damn I keep getting more thoughts I need to like. collected them together before i post so I dont just make a garbled post
"i believe this is bc kat knows shes basically powerless without a gun"
Why would I shoot and get rid of my gun (I can't shoot until every single other alive player does now) if being without it would make me basically powerless and I only have a 1/6th chance reeeeeee. Plus reply to my thing above on what I think scum's best course of action would be with their gun.
Aye aye capt
That was towards you for saying dont shoot anymore lmao but I guess it doesnt really matter so w/e
No second thoughts on Antonio being town
Because his defenses have been garbage. If he made sense, I would have had second thoughts. But they don't, soooo.
You imply they did make sense. Howso, may I ask?
illunie
girl now uwu
1. ik that the situations arent exactly the same, but i feel like its still similar enough for the double standard to still make me worried. i feel less sure about it tho
2. i tr punchy too, but ur reasoning in particular was both super vague and unclear and prob not strong enough to warrent as strong a tr as u gave him. it still comes off to me as buddying rather than an actual tr.
3. im sry if i wasnt clear (i prob wasnt) but i dont think that u were saying that u sr me. i said that i think ur giving me a weak tr just to get on my good side for now and keep the focus on antonio being maf, but were leaving a backdoor to sus me when antonio dies just in case.
4. ye i guessed u were gonna say that either way, i still dont think that antonio is obvious scum tho
im like 99 percent sure scum is in kat/antonio, so id prob say that we should kill kat then antonio and see what happens from there. i dont wanna shoot until antonio comes back tho
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its not rly a big deal, i just thought that town would be more careful before shooting someone since we have infinite time and all
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sry am i using the term wrong? i meant like u were acting rly nice towards ryu and punchy and it looked like u were trying to get on their good side. i guess the strong tr on punchy also kinda fits that discription too tho
Arstotzkan
A scum mom
Give :clap: me :clap: the :clap: gun :clap:
Most of these are kinda like "rip agree to disagree" sort of situations so can't really reply rip, but:
2. I mean that read was ****tily done it had one line of justification for each person lmao, I wasnt really giving it effort
3. If I wanted a backdoor, wouldn't it have been smarter to give myself an out all the way down to final 2?
Why is Antonio town tho?
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@Shotbut its been like a huge reason why you keep pointing to me being scum :thonk:
@Buddying Acting really nice with them would be pocketing, not buddying
Most of these are kinda like "rip agree to disagree" sort of situations so can't really reply rip, but:
2. I mean that read was ****tily done it had one line of justification for each person lmao, I wasnt really giving it effort
3. If I wanted a backdoor, wouldn't it have been smarter to give myself an out all the way down to final 2?
Why is Antonio town tho?
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@Shot
@Buddying Acting really nice with them would be pocketing, not buddying
illunie
girl now uwu
1. i think its cos u knew u were on a timer before u were gonna be found out by town, so u had to act quickly before the bw turned away from antonio, so u had to kill him before town could second guess it. i mean what else were u gonna do, hold the gun until someone else does? i dont think anyone else was gonna shoot before u did, but shooting might start a bw against antonio.
2. ye im rly dumb im sry, i thought it was to ryu : /
3. his responses dont make sense in like a normal sense (ik im not making sense im sry) but its consistent with his previous bad town play in the past, focussing on how he got results and not understanding y hes being sr for it. plus, i dont think that mafia wouldve made up a read like that in the first place anyway, or at least wouldnt have admitted to faking it so readily.
Arstotzkan
A scum mom
Also in regards to being nice, I don't feel like it's different than normal but maybe its because Im trying to be more careful about making for sure I don't offend people after last game.
illunie
girl now uwu
i think at that point u can just kind of rely on rng to carry u, esp if uve been useful all game. i see ur point tho
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ye most of this is prob just disagreeing about different things, i want to kill both u and antonio anyway so it prob doesnt matter if i 'win' or we, i guess it matters to u if u are town since u dont know if i am? and i could just be trying to take attention away from myself, but uve already said ur ok with dying so we
idk im sry im just rly unsure about it all, im super bad ik
Arstotzkan
A scum mom
1. "Timer" you keep bringing this up. What do you mean by timer? Like that I'm gonna be eventually found out as scum? Idk but when I play scum I'm not that defeatist, I play to win, not to try to cheese out the win before I'm "found". If I was scum here, I'd be playing the long game.
3. I mean we were all memeing when he made that read - him making the read in of itself I believe was a null tell. And I think it makes perfect sense for him to admit to faking it as scum (or any alignment but I dont get why town would fake a read there) - there was no evidence to back up a scumread, so of course you can't stick to it.
I think a person who was legit trying to scumhunt in that situation would have tried to give a read that would have resulted in some kind of information. And Antonio said he did it to see Punchy's reaction to pressure and then Punchy reacting differently made him town and I thought he had townread Punchy from the beginning so this would be a retroactive reason for townreading someone aka making it BS but not that I think about it idk if he said that he TR'd punchy from the beginning so idk.
Also for the meta bit - it feels weak, honestly? Reaction tests were valid but the way he did it just... did not seem town. At all.
3. I mean we were all memeing when he made that read - him making the read in of itself I believe was a null tell. And I think it makes perfect sense for him to admit to faking it as scum (or any alignment but I dont get why town would fake a read there) - there was no evidence to back up a scumread, so of course you can't stick to it.
I think a person who was legit trying to scumhunt in that situation would have tried to give a read that would have resulted in some kind of information. And Antonio said he did it to see Punchy's reaction to pressure and then Punchy reacting differently made him town and I thought he had townread Punchy from the beginning so this would be a retroactive reason for townreading someone aka making it BS but not that I think about it idk if he said that he TR'd punchy from the beginning so idk.
Also for the meta bit - it feels weak, honestly? Reaction tests were valid but the way he did it just... did not seem town. At all.
PunchyTheCat
Senior Member
Possible AtE alert
Arstotzkan
A scum mom
I mean I know who you are pretty much so yeah I'm cool if I'm dead when we win or if I'm alive when we win. Just sad bc hes obvious hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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"Bloody obvious" is stronger AtE than that imo
PunchyTheCat
Senior Member
Did you just scumslip
Arstotzkan
A scum mom
nah. Like I said, game's solved. Rune's townie because we're literally all townie
Im laughing bc yall are gonna shoot me for being cocky Im becoming abe oh no
PunchyTheCat
Senior Member
:thinking: Ryu, got any reads yet?
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I'm sorry it's 12 am, should I shoot Antonio now?
Arstotzkan
A scum mom
I mean you aren't sure that its Antonio yeah? So don't shoot. Make sure you're confident first. If you're sus of me or of anyone else, ask them questions first.
Ryumia
✨ The Hermit ✨
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No. I do not have reads yet. Adding this kind of pressure on to me is only giving me a good reason not to comply to help Town. Just an FYI. I'd like to be as cautious as possible in determining on what alignment I think other people are.
