Mafia Shadowrun: Dragonfall Mafia - Town Wins!

[EnderWiggin]

I feel like I need to do some ISO's. The Dolby wagon may have been "air-tight", and by that I mean I agreed with the logic too and it was no blame to follow that logic, I still think it should be thoroughly investigated.

It was a solid lynch that the mafia could easily join without being suspicious. I don't see Tom/Rune as scum atm (Though no ISOing them yet, opinion may change once I get some of that done).

6 hours BEFORE your pressure post I literally say "I feel like I need to do some ISOs". What is that supposed to mean other than that I am about to start work on ISOing everyone. >.>

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Me/Sarasa/Dad/Ashtot should all be town on retrospect, now I've re-read.

That gives us at least a good base, but it's going to be eaten through pretty fast with two maf-kills.

Hum hum.

 

[Endless]

Funny fact: I read through that post 3 times before I spotted what you wanted me to see.

I'm blind. IF I'd seen that as either alignment, I wouldn't have made that post.

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I'd like to repeat: The only reason I'm being lynched is because I told town not to focus on the bloody wagon/on why pillow bunny was killed.

There is no gameplay reason for me being voted.

Besides this sweet side note: If I'm mafia, then my team is throwing me tf under the bus => you get no flip information => You gain barely anything.
If I'm town, then you just demonstrated what's commonly referred to as a town implosion. Mafia basically autowin the moment I flip.

The risk/reward here is pretty blatantly supportive of keeping me around.

 

[EnderWiggin]

They really don't autowin. It's just a significant step towards it.

And if you flip mafia I pretty much can almost give the town autowin, assuming a partner isn't one of the afks. In which case it might as well be auto anyhow.

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I am probably switching in a moment. You're never going to talk me out of a lynch again if you flip mafia here.

 

[Endless]

I'm less concerned by the fact that you're switching and more concerned for who you're switching to.

If it's in the crys/blu rose spectrum I'm going to be pleased.

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Wiggin, good sir, you're going to have to explain that one to me.

 

[EnderWiggin]

He's the one common thread in all the possible mafia teams I see, unless there's an AFK.

The only other team that's arguable with the current pool of suspects is Tom/Crys/Blu. And I'll be honest, I really don't see that. Not least because I townread Tom to an extent.

I mean, there ARE arguable mafia teams that don't involve Forek, but every one I think likely involves him.

Including the one you're on.

 

[Endless]

That's a really horrendous thing to base a lynch on. There are 2 afks, I'd like to remind you.

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Like if it actually comes down to me and him, there are definitely worse options. But I'd infinitely prefer you focused on the elephants in the room.

 

[EnderWiggin]

The elephant in the room is you though.

I'd like to see Blu respond before I jump on her.

 

[f11]

I might actually do an ISO on crys on mobile.

Spoiler: Crys ISO

Nothing much. Just answering the random questions.



Already posted this quote earlier. They had a fos on endless d1 but ended up not voting at all. Even though they were on for the whole course of day.



Fos brings to light. Responding to the questioners, not much to get from really



Again, basically nothing.


Probably why they didnt vote D1. I missed this. Think they are trying to still fos Endless?


*skip* theres not much to say



I think answering questions? With good-ish answers. They are still trying to get Endless, with basically nothing.



Here's the gold right here: They agree with dolbys red flag list when they are on it?? That probably is a slip-up.



Perfect example of filler, I don't even know who they were responding to. lol


Asking a question when answer is right in front of them.


Basically just sheeping the other people pushing on Endless. lol. Not sure of what to think of this.



Again, answering questions. And saying they agreed with them being on dolbys red reads.


Reads.



I didn't want to put this lol but i guess i should



Responding to rune. With a joke?



This is literally getting nowhere



Responding to me. I thpught they voted dolby but i guess they didn't vote at all.

So basically they have gotten almost absolutely nowhere in this game, there is ample material to make a case - or put atleast a thought. They just pushed aside their fos on Endless from day 1 but then when people started suspecting them they jump on the train and put the same fos. I'd like for them to have SOME thought of any player in this game.

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All dat erasing that had to be done on mobile So i thought that (from the recent posts at that time) that town was gonna lynch Ashtot or Rune. Basically non coherent now anyways. Rune is pretty much obvious town now.

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EBWOP: I still want to get crys, but endless is still on my radar. He's good enough to make a good believable claim like he did.

why do you all not read. Dolby said on post (125) that he wasn't serious about those and he was just starting the game up. I can't even respond to most of it bc theres no questions, just commenting on my comments.

 

[Geoni]

I have very little time to actually make a post today before 5 in the afternoon, but Endless' reads on people are only solidifying my stance on him: he's scum. The case on Crys hasn't been made yet, but will purely be based on the fact that his 'reads haven't progressed any since the beginning of the game', Tom is scum 'because he's coasting', and Blu is scum because from what I can tell you just plain old don't like their Dolby rant? Okay, yeah, that's some really convincing stuff Endless.

Furthermore, you null read Forek conveniently and I still think that he's scum team with you, especially what with him ISOing crystal when you couldn't - you might be like 'but why would I let him seem so transparent in the thread', but it'd be some obvious reverse psych.

Also, it's a lil petty of me, but the way Endless words things just makes me think they're trying to maintain an egotistical posting style that he's known for so that he doesn't seem like his confidence has been shaken.

Stop trying to read me and objectively view the situation as a whole:

Are the situations that have lead up to me almost being lynched even remotely similar to any time when I've actually been caught as mafia? No? Coincidence?

Doubt yourself! Doubt yourself! Ender, please doubt yourself!

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Wait, correcting myself: looking back, you didn't null read Forek, you plain old just skipped even talking about him. Interesting.

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...no you null read him, I read right the first time. I woke up 5 minutes ago. You still essentially skipped even talking about him. Plus, he's not near as constantly posting as he was in KtbC and being grilled to get reactions from other people like he was in that game.

Honestly if Endless isn't scum I'm gonna be surprised.

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I'd like to repeat: The only reason I'm being lynched is because I told town not to focus on the bloody wagon/on why pillow bunny was killed.

There is no gameplay reason for me being voted.

Besides this sweet side note: If I'm mafia, then my team is throwing me tf under the bus => you get no flip information => You gain barely anything.
If I'm town, then you just demonstrated what's commonly referred to as a town implosion. Mafia basically autowin the moment I flip.

The risk/reward here is pretty blatantly supportive of keeping me around.

Translated: since everyone is voting me then that means some of my fellow mafia is probably throwing me under the bus, so that means you won't get any information from it! There's no way you can look into how people are bussing each other, I mean, that can't be done in mafia!

Also, I'm the best player that's ever graced your presence so if you lynch me town loses because I'm the best.

Endless, you seem desperate, and this is coming from somebody who is admittedly pushing hard on you right now, but I have my reasons, the many I've listed that you've shrugged off in the least, so it's more than just the two reasons you listed here. Also, new behavior that's furthering my scumread on you: the people you've chosen to go after today, and the very weak reasons you've chosen them for.

Anyways, I'll let up, I legit gotta go. It's fun fighting with you though.

 

[Geoni]

Quick thought I had in the shower: since Endless is claiming the drunk that randomly visits somebody at night, and gets targeted by them as a result, has anyone in the game gotten a visitation notification? If you have, but have previously posted after Endless roleclaimed, why didn't you post it before?

 

[Ashtot]

omg guys i have barely posted, i havent spammed. all i did was push for dolby and pillow lynch. my posts havent been useful cuz i havent been posting, i didnt think id be this busy

i wasnt being wishy washy either, i was just stating facts that i learned from playing with ppl multiple times

i think tonight ill get some time so bear with me

i dont understand why fleur wants me to die so much

my suspicions are on tom because if he was town i truly think he would town read me right now

even endless after only playing like 2 games with me can at least tell

anyways i recommend u lynch tom plus it'll be funny cuz he'll be salty

 

[Endless]

Don't know if I'll be up before EoD, but dad, you're overcompensating for not being able to read me right now. It's actually kind of funny.

I'm down to Lynch tom.

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Also I don't townread labelle anymore. There's something off in that reads post but I can't place it.

 

[Forek]

why can't anybody read me :/

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Oh, and another thing. I'm not supporting Endless or anything, i just partly agree his view on crys. I still think he is scum.

 

[f11]

why can't anybody read me :/

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Oh, and another thing. I'm not supporting Endless or anything, i just partly agree his view on crys. I still think he is scum.

So you think we are a scum team? Because he thinks I'm red so..

 

[Forek]

So you think we are a scum team? Because he thinks I'm red so..

Partly agree = Doesn't agree 100%. I don't think you are town, but I don't think you are scum. You are still leaning towards scum for me.

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Actually, you are still null. I can't get a good read from you.

 

[Trent the Paladin]

anyways i recommend u lynch tom plus it'll be funny cuz he'll be salty

You scum.

I'm down to Lynch tom.

You mafia scum.

 

[Blu Rose]

I think you're confused/skimming too fast. I've yet to say anywhere in this game that I'd like to vote Tom, but I did accuse Tom of lolvoting me because I day1 bussed him as fellow mafia in a previous game, which is what I was mentioning to Dolby, regarding how Dolby went after pillow bunny for '****posting'. I don't know if you have played with Tom in recent games Blu, but he's been reeeally bad as a player on both sides because he thought everyone would thing he's being scummy no matter what he did in part due to being maf a number of times in a row. He's recovering a little this game, I think.

I'm not entirely sure why you're reacting to Dolby's lynch the way you are - Dolby was contradicting himself at points, seemed overly defensive, and despite trying to get the ball rolling with what he claimed to be baiting he did little to actually give reads on people. At the time, nobody's behavior was as scummy as his, and my uncertainty about it was meta but it was right, I think. Point is, it gave us info and now that Enderwiggin can confirm that Endless' maf playstyle tends to be picking one person and sticking to it it makes sense in retrospect when looking at the Dolby lynch. A part of why Endless was successful in getting a mislynch day one was that he was the most active person in the game at that time and was using Dolby's mistakes to make it happen.

Spoiler: -snip-

The night one kills provided us a lot to chew on at first - Sarasa was shot and pillow bunny was also very likely a mafia kill, and then Endless came in and provided a large number of points about pillow bunny's kill theorizing a bunch of stuff but did at the end say it was pointless to look into, but it was the construction of all of those theories that I feel was used to promote uncertainty. After Endless posted that, along with defending himself against my accusations (most interesting was his response regarding what 'wine' is and that it was funny I used it for logic - it was dismissive), Enderwiggin came in and provided some information that has convinced me that Endless is likely behind the choosing of the night kills and actions: Ender was roleblocked and he confirmed that Endless and himself have played together and was a pr, Endless has shown to be a strong player in past games so he is indeed a cop check candidate for night 1s and he's aware of that, and out of all the experienced/'strong'/vocal players I'm going to assume Sarasa made the most sense to kill because it was likely Sarasa or Ender so he chose one and roleblocked the other, I have proven to be easily manipulated by Endless in past games, Tom has gotten lazy, Endless hasn't played with Feloreena yet, and other experienced players just aren't as vocal.

Furthermore, there have been a couple of other little things Endless has said that seems off - he mentioned that 'we should focus on people who weren't a part of the bandwagon because the bandwagon was 'airtight' (wtf does that mean)' and the only two that didn't take part in it were Rune and Tom. He townread Rune because of obvious reasons that a lot of people are capable of seeing and recognized that wouldn't work well as a mislynch, so that means he was talking about Tom when he said that. This means he intended to make a case against him or in the very least provide scumreads - however he seemed to have some time trouble and in the last minute turned against Enderwiggin later saying he'd make a case against him. However, as I'm summarizing here, the case against Endless is much more substantial and Endless will have to do a lot of work to present Ender as more scummy. It is for this reason, along with some alliances and non-alliances with/against Endless that will provide a ton of reads upon flip, that Endless needs to be lynched today. I know I'm repeating myself here, but I thought I'd summarize that this is why we should lynch him.

Also, the rolename matches up but I ain't ready to take Ashtot's word just yet.

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God dangit that turned out long anyways.

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Sorry guys, I know I should be more airtight.

It was probably Post #214 that got me confused with that, I'll grant you that, because I can't seem to find exactly where it was I was referring to when I said that. I probably have played with Tom recently but he probably died early/was an insignificant player if what you say is true.

Okay, I guess. Oh, and I'm probably just reacting to it like that because my emotions lately have been way out of whack and it just doesn't make sense for me. The lows go lower and the highs go higher, and it's probably because of school. That was basically a paraphrase of the summary I had written out on Notepad at the time, except for a few things. I guess Dolby's lynch was just a typical Day 1 mislynch and I shouldn't care as much as I have about it.

Spoiler: -snip-

Wish I had your confidence in this. I'm waking up and wondering if I fired from the wrong foot. Going to wait for his post before I think about that tho.

"If anything" implies that there isn't much there, but if I were to read something from it, it would be Endless/Labelle. Not in the slightest do I say that with confidence. I was saying that my initial Labelle/Crys read was really bad and that if there was ANY combo I took from that, it should be Endless/Labelle. Sorry for my miswording.

Have you played much EpicMafia? I haven't played on EM for 6 months now, and haven't played serious for a year and a half. But you easily could've played with me.

It... was a combination of things.

Dolby was uh... not good in the first place. Even before Endless came in, I was up for lynching him purely because of a really weird opener and follow ups that seemed more about defending himself and then... his reads also were like out of no where and aaaaalmost seemed like he was townreading the biggest people on his wagon.

To be honest, I didn't have doubts UNTIL Endless' post, but I wanted Endless to be right. I wanted Endless/Ender townteam, because it's so much easier when I know he is on my side. And to be honest, that blinded me.

Spoiler: -snip-

So you post this, a "Hole" in my story, and then you vote Endless? Okay?

And no, I don't think Endless "Thought I was cop." If you have a spare mafia roleblock, what do you do with it? Usually you block the people you think might be dangerous with any sort of town power, and especially with a cop scry.

PB was killed because Endless was never going to be able to get them lynched.




This paragraph is making me uncomfortable but I can't place my finger on why.



It = Pillow Bunny's death.

That was that Pillow Bunny's death, I'm pretty sure, is because Endless was never going to be able to lynch them. So his obfuscation without mentioning that possibility was the key point.

The meta is the kicker. I'm suspicious for him for a. the kills and block last night. b. his inconsistencies in the Dolby case and there-on. c. the meta.

The meta contributes but is the very last kicker. The Kills/Block is the biggest point.





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If you play other forum mafia I might've met you on another forum too. I just assume anyone here who has met me probably met me on EM for some reason.

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I hate easy-wagons. It just piles up the votes and you start to wonder how right you were after all.

Actually, I've played a bit but I never really liked it. I think I do actually remember you from a game, like, 8 months ago? Whatever, it was most definitely not enough to give me a memory, right?

Thanks for the clarification.
Oh, and, by the way, your last little bit there rubs me the wrong way.

Endless, thanks for the vote, it gives me great self-esteem, but I read pretty damn hard. I'll have to do a Dolby ISO just for you and see if what everyone has been telling me exists.

Before I start, I'd like to say that I'm in one of the low phases right now of the apparent cycle mentioned above. If I sound disrespectful, I probably am trying to be. Just read it all neutral and maybe take out the first paragraph or something (or yell at me, I don't even care)...
Here goes:

Spoiler: @Endless

i don't know if you noticed but those were comments and me typing in with NO CAPS to state that runeraider should have good luck distancing himself from the dolby lynch and were mostly sarcastic like i'm treating a lot of this defense as now because my effort level is 100% subtracted by 90% in countering this

the first two parts of my post that you quoted were both sarcastic and in the comments section

dolby NEVER STATED that he was suspicious of ashtot. NEVER. (or if he did please tell me but read the rest of this for a sec before you type it out)
he was just pushing them forward as a lynch option based off of previous games. to me, it seems like he knew that ashtot could be a disruptive player in the future and therefore just decided to offer him up as lynch, sort of like a wotc that wastes a day 1 lynch: you don't know their role but their past says that they're a disruptive player
so what if he didn't mention ashtot in any of his remaining reads he never had a read in the first place he was just saying that "we should lynch ashtot to get a possible nuisance out of the way"
i seriously do not think that that is a read

lmao @ your fourth one
yes because that was all i was trying to go for: people not following the case. it didn't make sense to me and therefore i decided to say so. and much attack very wow i was trying SO HARD TO ATTACK THAT

sorry endless your fifth response i've addressed to above (when i was addressing your first two responses)

tl;dr: go and read it scrub it's not that long
feel free to try to get a lynch me but i promise to you endless, it seriously won't help town
but it might help you

Oh, and, hi, LaBelle!
As I said in my response to Endless, I don't know if one can call those "suspicions."
It's not being suspicious, it's just wanting to get a possible nuisance out of the way. Basically WOTC but one Day 1 and wasting a lynch (which one was the last game that used WOTC anyways?).

all these god damn isos are making my head hurt can we please just point out the parts that matter

I do remember Forek saying that Ender is almost confirmed Cop based off of a claim? Does anyone agree with this? Just wondering.

 

[Trent the Paladin]

RE: Sarsakat

Meh, you can't get em all.

I'm going to focus a lot of my attention on the people that avoided that wagon rather than the people that wagoned it since the logic behind it was substantial.

Common sense would dictate that we take a closer look at people who mindlessly sheepled the bandwagon. In all honestly, even if Rune didn't change their vote then it would have just been me and the inactives. What would there have been to look with me? Absolutely nothing, so trying to take a closer look at everyone who voted for makes more sense.

I'm always super busy on Mondays and Tuesdays. I don't much time rn but SarasaKat is bleeding town and I'd guess pillow was shot because they asked to be. Either way, reading into it doesn't seem like it'll get us where we want to be.

I respectfully disagree with this, while the reasons listed sound good discouraging looking into comes off as extremely antagonistic.

These are the following reasons which could have contributed to mafia making a pillow kill:
a) Pillow was red-reading a mafia.
b) Pillow wasn't red-reading a mafia and mafia killed pillow to cast suspicion on pillow's red reads.
c) Mafia was townreading Pillow, and wanted to look good post flip.
d) Mafia was red-reading pillow and wanted to make it appear as if someone died that they were red reading creating a contraction to the possibility of them being mafia. (Ex. they wouldn't kill their red-read)
e) Pillow was killed because they requested it.
f) Pillow was killed because mafia blue read them.
g) Pillow was killed because Pillow is good friends/knows the ins and outs of a member of the mafia team.
h) Pillow was killed because mafia wanted to make it seem like a friend of pillows was on the mafia team.
i) Pillow was killed because a mafia genuinely thought they were towny and that they'd wind up being too hard to lynch along the way. (Despite the present read)
j) Other

Due to this, there isn't any real reason to talk about it. Sure, we could mudsling and try and poe the most likely outcome, but there's nothing stopping mafia coming up with really solid logic using assumptions either. If a type of scumhunting has assumptions this large in it then you're going to spend more time spinning in circles since at least 3 what-ifs are required to even start thinking about it.

If I give it much thought, mafia probably didn't kill pillow because of the request. Then again, does it really matter?

And yeah, I agree, as the player pool gets smaller and we start to know some of the mafia team due to flips early kills are incredibly useful information.
While it is going to be useful later, there's no point attempting to dismantle the wifom we're looking at right now. I'm more interested in figuring out the content and pushes we're dealing with from the days.

This hypothesis would be viable albeit weak if it weren't for the fact that, prior to meeting on this site, I've never played with SarasaKat before. I do agree that there's most likely a reasonably experienced/good player on the mafia team. That doesn't really narrow down much though.

OKAY, First of all, I have skimmed the game a couple of times. I haven't had the time to post though. Additionally, using wifom as a logic for a read is kind of humourous considering the terminology's origins. (It's literally the inability to figure something out based on the situation.) Finally, - and this ones a doozer - I said that out of the votes, the ones that we should focus on were those off wagon since the wagon was air tight. However, I never said anything about lynching Rune. In fact, had if I had inferred that, that would have been reason to red read me.

This is more or less the same logic I townread him for earlier.

Can't remember you outlining your Tom townread, I'd love to hear your reasoning.

EBWOP: , if I had inferred that (No had on the beginning)


The amount of mafia in any given forum mafia game is roughly <playernum>/3. 15/3 = 3.75

We're either dealing with (more likely) 4 mafia or (less likely) 3 mafia. Cheers.

I'm finished reading up. I'm going to ISO some people and give some dank reads.

EBWOP: <playernum>/4, 15/4

He's even admitted to skimming, therefore he's slipping which we caught him up for. A few fancy paragraphs to distract and deter, suddenly we ought to be finding a new lynch? I don't buy this Anti-Dad train and him pushing me as red is just his way of trying to get an easy lynch going.

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I do remember Forek saying that Ender is almost confirmed Cop based off of a claim? Does anyone agree with this? Just wondering.

There's always the possibility that there is a town blocker, but there's also the chance that Ender is a vig or doc or even a jack. We don't know for sure and either way continuously drawing attention to it just makes it worse.

 

[illunie]

I do remember Forek saying that Ender is almost confirmed Cop based off of a claim? Does anyone agree with this? Just wondering.

That was actually me. What he actually said was that he was usually picked to be cop and Endless roleblocked him based on meta. He hasn't confirmed his role yet, despite what many people have tried to say. (including Endless himself )

 

[EpicGamer12]

one shot vigilante