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bianca i can see you're starting to get frustrated. the day just started so you have plenty of time to defend yourself and try to push your scum reads. it think you just need to start to be more clear in your thought processes in order for us to really understand the points you're trying to make. play long enough and everyone gets suspected so don't take this personally please. if you're town just try to elaborate to us more
also im starting to notice that bell only really comes to comment on things at strange times and has yet to really push a certain agenda yet. just noting this
I know...its just that everytime I start something or say my theory...a wagon is on me ...so me saying my thoughts are probably not helping town...i'll try to be more clear but I just say whats on my mind at that time...so idk
I know...its just that everytime I start something or say my theory...a wagon is on me ...so me saying my thoughts are probably not helping town...i'll try to be more clear but I just say whats on my mind at that time...so idk
yea you're right i forgot this. i remember this sorry for forgetting. but im not sure how im still on your top targets if your theory on me is weakening, do you have any strong opinions on any other players yet? town or maf?
im gonna do an ISO on bell some point in the day tomorrow. wait for that cuz im having my doubts on them
bianca is not off my radar yet but it feels that bianca is being genuine in her frustration just now. but tone isn't enough to townread so ill wait to see the future reads bianca posts today
im gonna do an ISO on bell some point in the day tomorrow. wait for that cuz im having my doubts on them
bianca is not off my radar yet but it feels that bianca is being genuine in her frustration just now. but tone isn't enough to townread so ill wait to see the future reads bianca posts today
Honestly I agree with Seroja. I don’t think Kat was town. I’m guessing third party which may be why we were all getting such weird vibes from her.
Regarding the lack of counter-wagon: I was actually going to suggest a Voltairenism counter-wagon but everyone was discussing role names which was incredibly frustrating to me. I feel like it’s pretty much every day that someone who I won’t name leads the discussion down a completely useless path that adds absolutely nothing to the game and I just gave up. Call me tilted or bad, I’m honestly just annoyed.
@Trundle why did role names and frustration about the discussion prevent you from leading town down a different path than resolving yourself on Kat after she gave up? I know from your readslist that you were considering others.
I'm still on the side of Kat probably having been town here and my major issue with how the rest of that day went down is how a lot of the people on that lynch really just gave reasons others had given more or less after she claimed Trump as green and then gave up for the day saying they'd play later on. I expected someone to take a step back about it and consider another wagon.
Too bad Kat got policy lynched because her name was Donald Trump though RIP
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I'm not discounting that Kat was mafia ENTIRELY but I think in that scenario I can see a weaker team in Bianca and Mayor since Volt was an almost counterwagon. Because if Kat was scum and there were scum on that wagon bussing wouldn't you -not- janitor it? Especially since in a theoretical world like Kat/Mayor/Bianca Kat is the most experienced of the three.
Or it's split between one wagoner and one off wagoner with scumKat which makes even less strategic sense. Not going to mull over it extensively but I don't want EoD1 to fall by the wayside I want people to discuss it more because in any case the janitor prevents people to look into crucial behavior but yeah it requires at least some confidence that could be wrong. Either we fully consider Kat was this or that or try and find scum purely in other behavior.
i'd sussed both dinotown and antonio earlier on in the day so just referring back to that
i do think that antonio's question asking us all what information our chosen lynch candidate's deaths would provide stands out a bit more now considering we now know there's a janitor, or at least some sort of game mechanic/role that is functionally similar to a janitor.
agreeing with seroja and trundle in that i don't think kat was town-aligned. i get that we were all expecting her to flip one way or the other (i.e. none of us predicted a janitor role) but the fact that her death didn't reveal an alignment doesn't negate the half-hearted and anti-town way she was playing up until she got lynched.
Actually a valid point and I can agree it wasn't a good look and I think there was a fair bit of mentioning of reads based on flips before anyone knew that approach would be useless. Because that sets up discouragement of finding any substance in answers to that question.
This is a really nuanced read I hate that it's coming from scumpona but like yeah I would think that's something a person trying to solve the game would look into as a reaction to there being a janitor role in effect.
Okay, now that you've mentioned it, it is actually a very odd coincidence that Antonio specifically talks about and asks us about information to be gotten from lynches only for it to turn around that we have no information after lynching.
I'd kinda brushed that under the rug because answering the question helped me decide what the best vote to place was, a.k.a I found it helpful, but now we've already had a lynch and are still left with nothing... Antonio might have been counting on the fact that people would just ignore it, because it was a question that helped get thoughts in order.
At the same time though I kinda hold it against epona and now Dino if Antonio is town because that observation can be used to prepare an Antonio wagon on day 2. Because I can't shake the Antonio metaread and him really being interactive and solvey.
[read the rest of the game, fully caught up. Here's my comments:
i don't think bianca ever answered this fyi
what're your thoughts on dino now?
which two could be teamed and why? also here trundle notes sus on volt but doesn't try to bring it up as another lynch option aside from kat
do you have scum leans now? if you till think kat wasn't town, who could she be teamed with?
honestly a bit weird to just bunch the two together. also trundle doesn't really further pursue this thought
i don't really find kat's questioning of teddy's play style to be unusual. teddy made some very off claims like trusting everyone before suspecting them and staying reserved for the long run, and I think any experienced player like kat (and even me) would've called him out on that
its odd you single out volt while players like bell and bianca arguably had even less of a presence at this point
dino shouldn't really mention teddy much after this. what're your thoughts on him now?
very flawed logic here. kat never really pushes the possibility for another lynch. while saying "don't lynch me im down" is a bad defense, she could've tried to bring up another counterwagon. i don't know why shed let a mislynch on her happen so easily if she's town unless she gave up for personal reasons. even then she should called for a replacement if she didn't want to play the game. super out of character when she even said how excited shed be
what're your thoughts on antonio now? again you don't really bring up your sus on antonio and kinda just vote kat for no real clear reason
i wouldn't be so quick to believe a township
why are you okay with someone you sus town reading you? you should be worrying about being townread and be further pushing antonio. this post feels really off to me
volt never gives into the kat wagon and states that he wants to pursue others (particularly mayorleaf and why). because he was new (and overwhelmed) and scumread by a few people, i doubt he alone could've led a counter wagon for mayorleaf. it was pretty townie behavior imo and he seemed to have been trying his best
already a bad beginning, she's already downplaying her reads
bianca (kinda?) susses these people but never pushes any of them and votes for mayorleaf when in this reads posts its unclear why she preferred her over the others
dino ultimate joins the kat wagon even though she was hesitant to because of her role name? why didn't she bring up the possibility for a teddy lynch when it seems she had stronger feelings on him
this point subtly implies that no lynching could've been a valid option, but doesn't again bring up that possibility and votes over a role name
haven't you said in many games that meta means nothing? it seems you're okay with it being used later on
again, dino shows to have stronger feelings on volt and teddy, but ends up coping out to the kat wagon. she doesn't try hard to actually get volt lynched and i think they could've if there was a strong push for it
ok here i realized she actually didn't know green meant VT ill give her that. still feels pointless to bold your name in a color if you weren't claiming a role
of all the current claimed names, your name makes the least amount of sense with the theme. with your reasoning, you're more likely to be non town than kat's name was. I don't care about role names but im pointing out that you trying to find a theme is pointless
crews for epona, seroja, and mayorleaf for recognizing how weak the role name theme logic is. i guess epona didn't know the meaning of using the color green, but i can see why shed claim her role name to prove a point
dino is actually super wishy washy for a lot of this day. a quick jump to kat and forgets teddy and volt
while mayorleaf says before that role names aren't important, she entertains the idea that Donald Trump could not be town. I don't see the point in doing this
seroja is consistent with this stance on kat and it makes sense
odd that you're already set on voting for another player when D1 and N1 flips could've happened to change the dynamics of the game. this seems to be planting a seed that dino would be pursuing volt D2 and could continue to tunnel instead of rethinking players
its good that trundle acknowledges this but never really tries to steer town away from the distraction
it doesn't need to "linger". voting for someone due to behavior would've been much better than to "prove a theme" not sure if you even read toads OP at this point because if you did im not sure why you'd continue to pursue this
epona is the first one to bring up toads OP which is good evidence to try to stop the pointless theme conversation
again, trundle states a sort of uncomfortableness with the lack of a strong counterwagon as it wouldn't provide much info regarding voting patterns but he doesn't try to bring up a counterwagon of his other 3 scumreads
TDLR: I still think Antonio is scum, Trundle gets towncred when he's never really pushing a wagon he claimed to have started or brings up a counter wagon when he states he doesn't like the almost universal kat lynch. While kat was the only viable wagon during Day, i get from reading that people were also fine with lynching volt. before i entered the game, i saw volt as more town and don't really see why he was so scumread. but even still, the fact that no one strongly pushed for volt as a counterwagon and just gave into Kat's wagon because of role names (when it was continually brought up that role names are a poor reason) doesn't sit well with me at all. I stand in my belief that maf knew Kat wouldn't flip, and preferred to stay dog piled onto kat as they knew no one could be blamed participating in a mislynch/not voting for a maf lynch. the only people who stated strong reasons to vote kat (mainly her seemingly giving up) were geoni trundle and seroja. the others should've honestly voted for volt bc their stated reasons for a sus on volt was stronger than lynching over a role name. i think volt didn't become a wagon, because maf would rather go on a lynch that wouldn't incriminate anyone. for those that suspected volt, why didn't you push harder for their lynch? didn't it seem off that it was just agreed that kat would be lynched?
Seroja has been the most consistent and logical person so far so she's my strongest town read atm. ive yet to really engage with geoni's posts yet but from his play style im leaning towards town, but its not strong until i see where his scum hunting leads us.
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i’ll post my full reads list at the very end of night (seemed to had gone well last game xoxoxo) but i primarily want to hear from antonio about everything i’ve brought onto him and the other questions i raised to everyone else
I hope this is followed up with a readslist or tier because you are asking a lot of the questions I have asked or would ask if I took notice of them had I read with a different perspective, because I feel like there's a lot is sus and not much of a townread outside myself and Seroja.
bianca's really lost me and it feels a snake eating its own tail (tale? lol). she keeps jumping from suspect to suspect without any real proof or explanation as to why, and she back pedaled on me and dan? casting my vote for her for the time being, see pages 41 and 42 for insight.
as bell pointed out she was most likely pr hunting, sus.
teddy, i'm still really confused why you're sus of me if you're so trusting of seroja's reads. i think her reads were strong, and mostly correct (sans scumpona, nice name btw geoni i lol'd) and that's why she got axed.
@Damniel my current thoughts on Teddy are they Teddy, while the playstyle is not very helpful, is quite probably town. I still think that Kat and Teddy would not be aligned with each other, and since Kat was maf/third party, that puts Teddy as town to me, as least for now.
In reference to why I didn't vote for Teddy over Kat - because more was said. I did (and still do) believe that Kat and Teddy were not aligned, as I said, and after more was said, I decided it was more likely that Kat was the mafia and Teddy was the town. So I chose to vote for the one I thought was mafia.
I didn't "forget Teddy and Volt". I don't currently want to lynch Teddy. I, at the time, thought Kat would be a more useful lynch than Volt. I placed my vote where I had decided it would be best to, I didn't "forget" anyone.
I have already told you that Volt's swapping out has made me reconsider the voting of that slot, because I'm not longer sure if the behaviour was funky because they were mafia or because they were struggling with the game (or both).
I didn't vote Kat solely for the name thing, I had stated before all that that I had decided Kat would be the best option to vote for because that lynch would gain the most information. On top of that, giving up on defense and generally being anti-town. It doesn't matter that we didn't actually gain information, because everyone except the mafia were under the impression that Kat would flip and we WOULD get information.
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since *I think that Kat was mafia/third party.
I really hate this thing that the site does where you can be typing and change page to check something and sometimes it just deletes the last part of what you were typing. Not all of it, just the last few words
You thought Kat was an informational lynch? I'd have to look back (currently catching up) but I wanna see where you say this and why you weigh Kat as yielding the most information.
Also I would like to see people who so easily accept and push that Kat was scum explain the wagonomics if that is the case and how it fits into their worldview and not just assumed out of convenience.
dinotown- her behavior continues to be a bit too defensive for me liking. i still don’t think her flips from possibly lynching different players was really explained all that well and she seems to be too conscious of her appearance. ill give her credit that she didnt know the significance of using a green name to claim, but her having continued to give importance to the idea of a role name pattern doesn’t sit right with me. her more note worthy susses are on teddy and volt but she never really pushes those two and just stays on the kat wagon. really unconfrontational if you ask me tbh
of course I didn't push Teddy, I don't sus him. I have already told you this several times. Roll with the rest of it if you like, but seriously, come on. Stop saying one of the reasons I'm sus is not starting a wagon on someone I think is town.
also interesting to see how NKs might work I'm scared
I heavily appreciate the time and effort that you must have put into this, I really do. My only thing I want to point out is let's say you're right for everyone you've put so far, and only unknown roles are those three you put at ?. The final mafia, assuming there's 3, is in that group. That group also contains the exact same three people Damniel has previously stated they would be okay with lynching today. I don't really think mafia!Damniel has any reason to be bussing just yet
You thought Kat was an informational lynch? I'd have to look back (currently catching up) but I wanna see where you say this and why you weigh Kat as yielding the most information.
Post #341, I talk about what could be gained from Volt vs Kat lynch, it's not the most fleshed out thoughts in the world since some people were complaining I was too wordy, but that post is basically be sorting out my thoughts on which I would be better to vote for, for information (since she chance of mislynch is so high on D1, it was better to hope for seeing where votes had been placed than if we actually hit mafia or not)
Unrelated to that, I hope you're doing okay, Antonio
well well in the midst of all kat talk and wagoning, right from the onset, they are sussing each other like crazy..hmm distancing maybe? and then they voted each other off and im like uh huh..this is definitely distancing if i see one.
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and yes i think you are both scum at that moment when you voted each other off
A counterwagon is any wagon that is presented and accepted as being the most likely wagon to have been able to counter the wagon that actually lynched and unless the team is exactly you Mayor and Kat and Volt/Dan is scum I don't really see that as a true counterwagon.
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On short tho counterwagon is basically 2nd place wagon, typically one that got close.
I haven't really read the thread much, but I brought up more than just Kat giving up as a reason to lynch her. Her posts were unhelpful and she wasn't hunting for mafia, instead resorting to belittling a new player and justifying it as "teaching". Then she role claims. I still don't think she was town even though we apparently aren't going to know for sure until end of game, but you must understand there were many reasons to vote her. I believe the reason for no counter wagon was because she was third party.
Regarding information from a lynch: pretty much nobody dying would have given us very much information. It was a D1 lynch and there really wasn't much to read into.
Regarding my lack of push on voltairenism: I stuck to Kat because I had a feeling that if she was mafia, she would be more of a priority than voltairenism, who I was not 100% sure about in the first place and seemed new to the game.
I do find it annoying that the only people criticizing the end of day votes are the people who weren't even there. I understand busy schedules and whatnot but it is honestly really annoying to see someone who wasn't even there pick up a "holier than thou" attitude about how the day went.
That's a pretty bold take I'm not sure I agree with but I can accept it if you were truly passionate about believing Kat was going to flip scum.
That's fair enough with that last paragraph because I'm definitely guilty of believing I could appear to make my vote matter I'm the last ten minutes of that day, but I can't not question why it had so much momentum and staying power with how it went down.
Uhh... can you explain where I said that? I only asked Teddy to assume for a second that he was right about all of his reads. Me saying "pretend you're right about Mayor being mafia" is NOT the same thing as saying "I am absolutely certain Mayor is mafia"
Uhh... can you explain where I said that? I only asked Teddy to assume for a second that he was right about all of his reads. Me saying "pretend you're right about Mayor being mafia" is NOT the same thing as saying "I am absolutely certain Mayor is mafia"
Alrighty, I am online and ready to play. I'll be honest, all this sus on me is frustrating to the point I want to break the rules in order to make a ****ing point to scum so I need to take a few deep breaths after I post this before I ever reach that point.
First of all, Damniel came in here and is susing me based on what others said. @epona came at me early in day 1 for restating what others have said, how does that differ between me and damniel?
Second of all, my role fits. My role is regarded to cleaning off bugs from deers and such. Therefore, it fits. How does Donald Trump fit regarding cleaning compared to the other roles? The case still stands.
Finally, I wouldn't be this ****ing obvious as mafia. I would let others **** themselves up, not **** myself up.
This is what is going to happen. I am against being lynched day 2 but if I must, I will vote myself off to prove a point. I would even post my role image after I die to prove a point that mafia was targeting me. So, Let's GOOOOOO.
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Sorry, I'm getting pissed.
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I stick by my statements that there's an obvious pattern regarding roles. The role names might differ, but the rules never state that the pattern can be similar.
I don't even see why Antonio flipped out at this point in the game they had some sus but I'm not seeing it being overwhelming or anything. Don't think he'll be coming back to talk about it if being replaced but this really does put a lot of attention on him for little possible benefit.
firstly, regarding stuff going on irl, it's a really tough time for everyone so i can empathise and i hope you're ok
secondly WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT ROLE CLAIMS
saying that you accept that we can't discern alignment from role names but that we may be able to discern a pattern is just plain semantics, what is the difference??? if we were able to discern a pattern that actually gave us anything worthwhile to go off, we'd be able to discern alignment. this argument is stupid and it's been explained time and time again why it's stupid
you're contradicting yourself too; yes donald trump seems random when it comes to cleaning but the first thing i think of when i heard red billed ox head fat bird or whatever your role name is is not 'oh yeah this bird is great at cleaning'
maybe it IS a widely known ornithology fact that the bird gets rid of ticks from deer, i have NO idea but like... you still can't say it's as in line with a 'squeaky clean' theme as mr clean or rubber ducky or whatever
you can make anything fit a theme if you try hard enough. donald trump has cleaned SOMETHING at least once in his life i'm sure. also, he's literally the president of the USA so i could honestly see him fitting in as a role name in ANY mafia game
if you were to line up all the roles that have been claimed so far i would argue YOURS is the one that seems the most random. abandon this line of thought it's not doing you any favours and it's really frustrating quite a few of us
I agree that it makes them seem scummy, which is why I'm worried, because mafia!Antonio with the janitor on their side will have made that comment with the knowledge that the mafia intended to, or at least had the ability, wipe someone. Looking back, it's about as close as you can get to the mafia coming up to us as asking "so who should we wipe". I really don't think Antonio would do that, it's almost a case of TMI, but I could also be giving Antonio too much credit, and you could be right.
It is possible that it was part of Kat's role, but a third party janitor who can wipe themselves and wipe lynches instead of (or as well as) night kills seems weird, more like something a very experimental set-up would have.
If we get another wipe somewhere we'll know that Kat was not janitor.
We'll also be able to tell how 'experimental' this set-up is once we do get some roles. If we start getting some really weird ones then it seems more likely that Kat is that way, but currently, I'm just going on the basis that janitor being mafia-aligned seems the most likely and logical.
I still can't shake the w/w vibes you are giving me with epona on this specific topic given I really just think Antonio is town and it's a bit much to think Antonio would ragequit while also thinking Kat was scum.
Why waste a lynch on policy alone? A scum being unhelpful is not worth lowering town's numbers. Like the only kinda unhelpful that is beneficial to get rid of is someone swallowing the entire thread in a way that makes it hard for everyone to read.
I still can't shake the w/w vibes you are giving me with epona on this specific topic given I really just think Antonio is town and it's a bit much to think Antonio would ragequit while also thinking Kat was scum.
I don't expect you to be if you are Townie Dan
