The Delta variant and when you expect the COVID-19 pandemic to end

[nightglow]

I'm sorry, but this exact sentence made me have to do a double take-what could be worse than oneself and other people dying? Remember that it's not only a person catching COVID-19 who might die, the people said individual spreads it to can also die from catching the illness. This technically means an unvaccinated, maskless person is responsible for putting others at risk, and their lives being on the line. This claim makes it seem like, for example, reckless driving (regardless if it was say, caused by alcohol or not) is okay because they are things worse than death. For one thing, not only may the driver driving recklessly kill themself, they are being a danger to other people on the road as well, both people in other vehicles and pedestrians. This is a criminal offense known as vehicular manslaughter. It's the same way with COVID-19-people who don't get vaccinated, don't wear masks, and don't follow other medical guidelines when they completely have the option to do so and aren't unable to get vaccinated or wear a mask due to health reasons are endangering other people too, not just themselves. Remember that you can be asymptomatic and still have COVID-19. It's an apt analogy to vehicular manslaughter because people are intentionally putting themselves and other people in danger.

I really don't like how I'm asking a question like this on TBT (even though this is yet another example of me providing a rhetorical question), and I never thought I'd be asking a question such as this on this site either after I joined way back in 2014, but should I really have to die because you don't want to get vaccinated? Is my suffering worth your decision and whatever risk you think there is to the three vaccines available? (I can understand people avoiding the Johnson and Johnson vaccine since there were reports of blood clots from it, and it did cause a death in Australia I remember, but the Pfizer and Moderna are completely safe)

I will reply because you are the OP. For one, I do feel like you are taking my sentence out of context. For those who have pre-existing conditions which is what I was talking about, a concern they may have is, there are worse things than death. Which is being in a worst state of existence than they already are.
Though it may not be a popular stance, but there are those who would rather die than get worse in their medical condition. (this is why the ethical topic comes up in the medical field about doctor assisted euthanization, a touchy topic) As such, they may have the concern of the vaccine doing that to them even though the virus could also do so too. What is looked at is percentages per individual.
Again this isn't about "just not wanting to take a vaccine" This is a reason is a valid concern and could naturally be discussed with their doctor. I guess if people have a problem with it, they can stone the doctor and ban any exemptions at all? Then the small percentage of people can be maimed and to **** with them because you know someone could or could not catch a virus and have severe symptoms and die just like a person could or could not have the rare reactions of vaccines. It depends on the person which is why it is important to speak to your doctor. (not saying your question is invalid, just expanding on your question)

I hope you are speaking in a general term and not assuming I am antivax. I am glad you support choice of type of vaccine. And since the full approval of Pfizer in the US, then I can agree in general with your stance of Pfizer being safe. And from the FDA papers, it appears that Pfizer is the most effective on top of it. Bonus. I'd still practice caution if you have a heart condition though and definitely keep an eye out for the American Heart Association's guidance, through your cardiac doctor. I worry about my little cousins even thought they are currently under the age limit right now for the vaccines.

But this whole thing does whip around to my curiosity of, what are the nations to do with people who don't want to vaccinate and by some standard set by I suppose the government don't have a real reason to support their decision? Should there be a dedicated place on the earth for them to be placed or should they do something else? I don't expect to see much of this question now in the US until vaccine mandates roll out which the Biden Administration will do and said they will do and they can do since Pfizer is fully FDA approved now.


And to clarify.. I am not upset or emotional as stated before. I'm not hopping on here typing up a rant saying that all those who have waited or wanted more data are just antivaxxers as some have. Not that they aren't entitled to their stance and emotions.. but perhaps there is a better thread for that? Underlining and bolding text was for emphasis not that it did much good... So I haven't since as can be seen. Well, enjoy your week. This whole pandemic stuff will blow over eventually.

 

[nintendofan85]

If you choose to not get vaccinated but live in the woods, completely isolated from everyone? Fine, whatever I guess. But that’s not most people. Most people have the ability to spread covid and most people will rely on hospitals when they get sick.

I want to say something about this as someone who technically has his house in a suburb that is almost a rural area (I'm just simply currently away from home as I'm staying in apartment to commute to my college classes in another state as my classes are restarting this week in-person), even if it seems less so than urban areas, not being vaccinated from COVID-19 in say, the countryside is still very much risky. People who live in the country still have to go obviously to stores and the like to get groceries, gas, and other goods that are basic necessities. Rural areas still have isolated stores such as these, and some may even commute to towns that aren't that far away to get these. If someone living in a rural area doesn't get vaccinated, they can still catch COVID and spread it to other people. This is why I believe everyone should be vaccinated fully.

 

[-Lumi-]

I want to say something about this as someone who technically has his house in a suburb that is almost a rural area (I'm just simply currently away from home as I'm staying in apartment to commute to my college classes in another state as my classes are restarting this week in-person), even if it seems less so than urban areas, not being vaccinated from COVID-19 in say, the countryside is still very much risky. People who live in the country still have to go obviously to stores and the like to get groceries, gas, and other goods that are basic necessities. Rural areas still have isolated stores such as these, and some may even commute to towns that aren't that far away to get these. If someone living in a rural area doesn't get vaccinated, they can still catch COVID and spread it to other people. This is why I believe everyone should be vaccinated fully.

Oh, no I agree. I meant like if the person genuinely lives in the woods and never interacts with another human being ever and won’t rely on healthcare if they get sick then I guess it’s fine if they don’t get vaccinated. Because for them it’s a 100% self contained situation where the only one affected is them.

But nobody really lives like that - at least nobody that you’d see posting online. Countryside/rural living is not what I meant at all, just to clarify!

 

[nintendofan85]

And everyone, spare some sympathy for those who are angry at antivaxxers. Many of us have lost a lot, struggled a lot, and our anger comes from a place of despair and exhaustion. We are not machines to provide endless emotional codling to those who have abandoned reason and science. Instead I hear antivaxxers demanding patience and compassion and sympathy again and again aat the same time as they repeatedly claim they don’t owe anything to anyone.

First of all, while it's not what I quoted, I wanted to say that you're absolutely welcome for my statements.

Anyways, on this, probably one of the things about anti-vaxxers that I find the most incendiary and inflammatory is that they clearly, claiming "oppression" and so forth (like the anti-maskers, which both categories appear to have heavy overlap; as I said earlier, neither trust science) have a victimhood mentality. They feel like scientists, medical professionals, and politicians (mostly, in the case of the United States anyway, Democrats) are oppressing them and making their lives miserable, along with people who second the sentiments of the above three. The thing is, someone who gets sick to these people, or worse yet dies, or like mentioned about people with other medical complications that can't be hospitalized due to the ICUs being full with COVID patients are the ones clearly being victimized by the anti-vax and anti-mask crowds. Their desire for patience, compassion, and sympathy yet also saying they don't anyone anything simply shows their senses of entitlement, selfishness, and overall lack of care and dare I'd say disdain for other people, particularly those that don't think like themselves.

Post automatically merged: Aug 24, 2021

Oh, no I agree. I meant like if the person genuinely lives in the woods and never interacts with another human being ever and won’t rely on healthcare if they get sick then I guess it’s fine if they don’t get vaccinated. Because for them it’s a 100% self contained situation where the only one affected is them.

But nobody really lives like that - at least nobody that you’d see posting online. Countryside/rural living is not what I meant at all, just to clarify!

Ah, ok, I see. I must have misunderstood. At the same time, when I think "live in the woods", I think being in the countryside, haha, I probably think that because a lot of my family members are country bumpkins.