Trump reverses Obama's guidance on bathrooms

[N a t]

Okay... But this is about a very real issue. Transgender people, in many cases, can not go to the bathroom while out in public and have to plan what they eat and drink before they have to go out for long periods of time. Some don't drink/eat enough because of this, and it makes them sick. Even when they try to avoid eating/drinking, it still happens sometimes, and they hold it in. That can cause medical issues.

Also from what I understand, the hormones that transgender people take (I know this applies to transwomen, I don't know about transmen. Maybe someone who is trans or someone is knowledgeable can clarify?) can make them have to go to the bathroom many more times than the average person, which puts them in a really bad spot when they're at a school or workplace that won't work with them.

So please, lets not take focus off of a very real issue because "some people might have it worse". This isn't about who has it worst. This is an issue that needs to be dealt with, because some people are suffering and they don't need to be.

And those people who might have it worse aren't suffering? Do they not have an issue to be dealt with? I just feel like these topics are being glorified.

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I'm not saying that this isn't important at all, but I'm tired of everything revolving around like, 2 or 3 issues in particular, that aren't nearly as bad as others. What's being done about other major issues, possibly even more important issues, if these are the focus?

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Petey Piranha I'm not gonna eeny meeny miny mo a post of yours to quote but if we all sat and went "Well people have it worse" literally nothing would get done about anything ever.

Like yeah I have BPD and severe depression but hey someone's probably about to get murdered so let's cut all research on mental health!

Again, I just want people to chill out and think about something else every once in a while. I'm not saying we have to use what I said as an excuse to do nothing about current issues, but let it give you some damn peace of mind because I feel like everyone is going nuts these days.

 

[Envy]

And those people who might have it worse aren't suffering? Do they not have an issue to be dealt with? I just feel like these topics are being glorified.

Then bring forth all of these issues and ways to address them. I don't mean in this topic, because that's rude. We have a real issue here that we're talking about because it needs to be addressed.

The point of this discussion is NOT to say that there are not other issues for people in this world that need to be addressed. There sure as heck are, but please don't come around here and devalue the importance of our concern just because of that.

And... Let me just say, if you want to point fingers, point them at Trump, who decided to make this even more of an issue again.

 

[Haskell]

Then bring forth all of these issues and ways to address them. I don't mean in this topic, because that's rude. We have a real issue here that we're talking about because it needs to be addressed.

The point of this discussion is NOT to say that there are not other issues for people in this world that need to be addressed. There sure as heck are, but please don't come around here and devalue the importance of our concern just because of that.

And... Let me just say, if you want to point fingers, point them at Trump, who decided to make this even more of an issue again.

You mean the media and the left?

Trump was just following what should be followed... power to the states.

 

[seliph]

And those people who might have it worse aren't suffering? Do they not have an issue to be dealt with? I just feel like these topics are being glorified.

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I'm not saying that this isn't important at all, but I'm tired of everything revolving around like, 2 or 3 issues in particular, that aren't nearly as bad as others. What's being done about other major issues, possibly even more important issues, if these are the focus?

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Again, I just want people to chill out and think about something else every once in a while. I'm not saying we have to use what I said as an excuse to do nothing about current issues, but let it give you some damn peace of mind because I feel like everyone is going nuts these days.

How dare citizens of the United States want to deal with the flaws of their country that directly affect them.

Bringing light to a current issue at hand and informing others about it is not overshadowing any others and it sure as hell isn't glorifying anything. There are countless charities to countries that need help, and it's not like they're being ignored. Multiple issues can be handled at the same time. However the US can't be every other country's giant grandma dumping those strawberry candies at everybody, it needs to take care of itself too.

As for "chilling out"? I know people think this is just about bathrooms but as I and others have said before, the god damn lives of trans people are at stake. This isn't something that can be brushed aside just because other countries have their issues too. People are going nuts because people are constantly brushing aside LGBTQ issues and other minority issues as a whole. Maybe if people would stop driving a bus over us and help us when we need it, we'd chill out a bit.

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You mean the media and the left?

Trump was just following what should be followed... power to the states.

The media and the left didn't prevent trans people from taking a piss

 

[N a t]

Then bring forth all of these issues and ways to address them. I don't mean in this topic, because that's rude. We have a real issue here that we're talking about because it needs to be addressed.

The point of this discussion is NOT to say that there are not other issues for people in this world that need to be addressed. There sure as heck are, but please don't come around here and devalue the importance of our concern just because of that.

And... Let me just say, if you want to point fingers, point them at Trump, who decided to make this even more of an issue again.

I agree that I've gotten off topic, but I'm not trying to devalue, I'm trying to reason. I'm not asking you to forget what you're fighting for, or to stop being serious. I'm asking for a day off, so to speak. And I don't wanna hear anyone retort with,"I can't take a day off from this or that", because there is a way and a time and a place, just make it happen like you do everything else on every day when you're fighting, and working, and surviving. I don't think it's as difficult as people make it seem...

 

[seliph]

I agree that I've gotten off topic, but I'm not trying to devalue, I'm trying to reason. I'm not asking you to forget what you're fighting for, or to stop being serious. I'm asking for a day off, so to speak. And I don't wanna hear anyone retort with,"I can't take a day off from this or that", because there is a way and a time and a place, just make it happen like you do everything else on every day when you're fighting, and working, and surviving. I don't think it's as difficult as people make it seem...

"I just want a day off" says local who isn't affected by the issue at hand at all

 

[N a t]

How dare citizens of the United States want to deal with the flaws of their country that directly affect them.

Bringing light to a current issue at hand and informing others about it is not overshadowing any others and it sure as hell isn't glorifying anything. There are countless charities to countries that need help, and it's not like they're being ignored. Multiple issues can be handled at the same time. However the US can't be every other country's giant grandma dumping those strawberry candies at everybody, it needs to take care of itself too.

As for "chilling out"? I know people think this is just about bathrooms but as I and others have said before, the god damn lives of trans people are at stake. This isn't something that can be brushed aside just because other countries have their issues too. People are going nuts because people are constantly brushing aside LGBTQ issues and other minority issues as a whole. Maybe if people would stop driving a bus over us and help us when we need it, we'd chill out a bit.

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The media and the left didn't prevent trans people from taking a piss

I'm just running in circles with all of you, so I'll probably take my leave soon, and I'm sure you'll all love to see me go. Not trying to play the victim, but I don't think anyone is particularly enjoying my company right now. But as for how I think these issues are being glorified, I honestly see more BLM and LGBTQ issues more than anything else. I know Trans rights isn't either of those, but I see all three of these things all over the internet more than I'm seeing news and posts about terrorism, and wars, and finding the cures for diseases. And I do mean in passing, because to be honest, I'm not hunting for any of these things in particular right now.

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"I just want a day off" says local who isn't affected by the issue at hand at all

Sorry, forgot that I'm a privileged piece of cis scum. According to most anyone who isn't cis.

 

[seliph]

But as for how I think these issues are being glorified, I honestly see more BLM and LGBTQ issues more than anything else.

Yeah! You know why? Because black people and lgbtq people are constantly attacked by everyday citizens as well as the freaking government itself.

I know Trans rights isn't either of those

...... What....... do you think the "T" in LGBT stands for.......

Lesbian Gay Bisexual Tomato

 

[Haskell]

I'm just running in circles with all of you, so I'll probably take my leave soon, and I'm sure you'll all love to see me go. Not trying to play the victim, but I don't think anyone is particularly enjoying my company right now. But as for how I think these issues are being glorified, I honestly see more BLM and LGBTQ issues more than anything else. I know Trans rights isn't either of those, but I see all three of these things all over the internet more than I'm seeing news and posts about terrorism, and wars, and finding the cures for diseases. And I do mean in passing, because to be honest, I'm not hunting for any of these things in particular right now.

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Sorry, forgot that I'm a privileged piece of cis scum. According to most anyone who isn't cis.

You're not a privileged piece of cis scum. Your opinion is a divine right, as is everyone else's.

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Yeah! You know why? Because black people and lgbtq people are constantly attacked by everyday citizens as well as the freaking government itself.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness!

 

[N a t]

Yeah! You know why? Because black people and lgbtq people are constantly attacked by everyday citizens as well as the freaking government itself.



...... What....... do you think the "T" in LGBT stands for.......

Lesbian Gay Bisexual Tomato

I'm sorry for not thinking clearly, that was foolish of me to make that mistake. I could make excuses for it, but I just clearly was not thinking about the acronym itself. But with that, I give up. I'm tired, and instead of arguing about something that ultimately does nothing but occasionally intrigue me, I have no reason to continue. As if I had any support anyways lol. It was nice to come back and have more than just a short conversation though. Been a while since I was on for this long. Thank you all for the civil debate, and I sincerely hope no one hates me for my lackluster arguments and occasional bigotry, because I don't read people well. Good night.

P.S. Just to make my last post topic related, I'd like to say that despite what you may think I stand for after my many arguments, I agree that everyone should indeed be able to say "ipeefreely".

 

[seliph]

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness!

Thank you for not addressing my point at all as always!

I'm sorry for not thinking clearly, that was foolish of me to make that mistake. I could make excuses for it, but I just clearly was not thinking about the acronym itself. But with that, I give up. I'm tired, and instead of arguing about something that ultimately does nothing but occasionally intrigue me, I have no reason to continue. As if I had any support anyways lol. It was nice to come back and have more than just a short conversation though. Been a while since I was on for this long. Thank you all for the civil debate, and I sincerely hope no one hates me for my lackluster arguments and occasional bigotry, because I don't read people well. Good night.

P.S. Just to make my last post topic related, I'd like to say that despite what you may think I stand for after my many arguments, I agree that everyone should indeed be able to say "ipeefreely".

I don't hate ppl on here it'd take way too much energy and I am an exhausted little man

 

[visibleghost]

I'm sorry, but this comment is just really funny to me. I know that the focus of this topic is sex and gender related privileges, but does nobody else ever think about the privileges that they do have? Maybe a trans person doesn't have the privileges of a non-trans, but they might have a certain race privilege, or some sort of privilege given to them based on the country they live in, or their working class. Does nobody ever stop these days and remember that they may be doing badly, but there is probably always somebody doing worse than them. I honestly consider one of my privileges to be a US citizen. What if somehow I was born in another country where things are honestly just going awfully? Somebody may have it better than you, but someone out there also has it worse. In that way, we are all equal. People want some equality? There it is. Everyone has something that somebody doesn't, even if only for a short while.

ok but this is about trans issues so people who have privilege over trans people is what we are focusing on.

cis people think it is "not a big deal" or "it's just bathrooms why so people care so much" but that's because they can say that bc it doesnt affect them. transphobia doesnt affect cis people so you all dont have to worry about it. it isnt about other privileges lmao this is about bathrooms not about Imagine If U Were Born In A Country That Kills Lgbt People or w/e

I'm apart of the LGBTQ community and I sure am happy to live in this country rather than any other country. America is America. I love it, like it, and will live in it. Also you calling women minorities is a false statement. There's more women in the United States than men. They aren't a minority.

ok but this isnt about your personal opinion on america and just bc youre gay doesnt mean you know abt how every other lgbt person feels. youre a transphobe so stop trying to use the "im lgbt too !!!!!" thing ,, it doesnt work.


anyways idk why people in this thread try to argue that trans ppl dont have it that bad. please show your sources that tell you how no trans women of colour are murdered and how every single trans person is happy and not victims of oppression ........ also raskell please reply to the people who reply to your comments, you are just baiting everyone now. it isnt cool pos either leave or take this seriously bc rn i feel like you are just here to piss people off

 

[-Apples-]

I have one question about the number of genders. When people say there are more than two genders, what other genders are there?

 

[xSuperMario64x]

I have one question about the number of genders. When people say there are more than two genders, what other genders are there?

Idk but apparently some of these people are mushrooms. They have 20,000 genders.

 

[visibleghost]

I have one question about the number of genders. When people say there are more than two genders, what other genders are there?

k so i think gender is a lot more complwx than we see it 2day. generally i'd say there are 4 "directions" ur gender can lean towards: male, female, other, none. gender fluid isnt a seperate gender so yh

that's a simplified version but Basically. u could compare it to colors i guess in the aspect that there are more colors than red, yellow and blue even tho they are thw primary colors. no one would say "there are only three colors -_-" because there are so many more, u know? and if u tried to count all colors ever thatd be pretty Hard bc there are like a ton of blues and w/e

also gender is made up to begin with so like im sorry but all genders are imaginary

 

[Jake]

Whilst we can't force anyone to agree with someone else's opinion, can we at least try be respectful and mature and discuss the topic seriously, and refrain from making troll posts like "some ppl classify as mushroom 4 their gender".

Controversial threads seem to be the current hot topic here at TBT, and let me just warn you all that if people can't start being mature in these threads, bans are going to be given out very soon.

 

[-Apples-]

Whilst we can't force anyone to agree with someone else's opinion, can we at least try be respectful and mature and discuss the topic seriously, and refrain from making troll posts like "some ppl classify as mushroom 4 their gender".

Controversial threads seem to be the current hot topic here at TBT, and let me just warn you all that if people can't start being mature in these threads, bans are going to be given out very soon.

I will keep in mind.

The purpose of the topic was to discuss what they think of Trump's actions on the bathroom debate. We now care less about what he does in office, but this one was pretty major. The first time Trump did something about the bathroom debate since he took office was when he withdrawn the Department of Justice from challenging against the state of Texas for blocking Obama's executive order that's forcing schools to allow transgender students to use the bathrooms of their gender identity. After that, he reversed the order.

The issue is going to be in the spotlight for a while not just because of Trump's executive order, but also because of an impending Supreme Court case about transgender discrimination from bathrooms.

I actually opposed Obama's executive order on the bathroom issue because what he is failing to respect is states' rights. With the exception of same-sex marriage (which should be legal) and political correctness (which should be outlawed if it's bullying others), I believe all of our current social issues (as well as stuff like Obamacare) should be left up to the states to decide and not the federal government. The thing here is that the 10th amendment says anything not mentioned in the constitution or in the first nine amendments should be left up to the states. But even the bathroom debate shouldn't be left up to the states. In fact, it shouldn't be left up to the law. The bathroom issue is one of these issues like paying for insurance for employers and banning fattening foods that should be decided by businesses and institutions and not politics. Texas is considering on passing a bill banning their cities from forcing schools and businesses to allow transgender people into bathrooms of their gender identity. I think this is a good idea because even city governments shouldn't have control of public bathrooms in all commercial services within the city bounds.

Another reason why I do not agree with the laws forcing transgenders to use bathrooms of their biological sex or laws forcing commercial services to allow transgenders to use bathrooms of their gender identity is because of the downfalls on both sides. If they are forced to allow transgenders into bathrooms of their gender identity, there could be some potential abuse of the system (no, they're not even gonna cross-dress) where they would lie about being transgender, as some would take offense of someone of the opposite sex entering the bathrooms. It's not even about sex crimes. If it were the other way, transgenders would be subject to discrimination by law, which is a very bad idea and unfair.

 

[nostalgibra]

I have one question about the number of genders. When people say there are more than two genders, what other genders are there?

As far as I know, and someone please correct me if I'm misinformed, any gender identity apart from boy + girl is considered nonbinary (male and female are referred to as the gender "binary", hence the term). Many people feel they don't fit male or female so they identify as agender which is considered nonbinary, and many other people feel they identify as both male and female at different times which is genderfluid, also nonbinary. Gender is very complex and unique to the individual, so of course there will be deviations from the norm/binary. ("deviations" here used without any connotation)

 

[visibleghost]

^ are you okay w/ transphobic laws and regulations

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that was 2 apple sry

 

[Leen]

I have one question about the number of genders. When people say there are more than two genders, what other genders are there?

Apple2012, think about gender as a spectrum. You have one straight horizontal line. One one end of the line, you have femininity, while on the opposite end of that line, you have masculinity. These polar opposites are the extreme of each gender. For example, on the extreme polar end of femininity, you have societal stereotypes like dresses, shaving legs, petite curvature, nurturing, pink, high heels, makeup, etc. On the polar end of masculinity, you have societal stereotypes like strong, leader, sculpted, broad shoulders, pants, rugged, blue, beard, etc. These are the "two genders" that society and mainstream culture tend to identify as the only two genders people are allowed to have.

But there is everythingggg in between these two polar ends that people can fall on. Obviously, not all women need/want/have to shave their legs, women can be leaders and strong, etc. The answer to your question is infinite really. There is no finite number of genders because gender non-conforming people can fall anywhere in that spectrum. I hope this answers your question and that it makes sense.

Edit: Gender is not the same as biological sex. There are 6 biological karyotype sexes that do not result in fetal death. And then there's inter-sexed individuals. It's more complicated than people think. XY male and XX female may be the common majority, however, these are not the only two sexes possible.