Can we talk about Dueping on here?

[Bones]

I find the argument that duping one-time DLC sets like the 7-11 set is "cheating" to be laughable.

As opposed to the legitimate means of obtaining it (happening to have been born in the right country, at the right time, to get it).

Yes, you worked so hard to get it. *rollseyes*

Except that most dupers don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts - they do it because they want to dupe rare items to sell.

If somebody did it simply because they wanted to say screw you to limited items and give them out to people who could not otherwise obtain them, then I completely understand.

But people like that are very rare, which is why the general consensus is duping = bad. And rightfully so.

 

[rosiebelle]

I heavily disagree that going "nope" is smart or wise. Rather, it is cowardly and immoral.

Discrimination to protect from discrimination is completely idiotic.

And taking on the challenge of trying to pin down whether taking advantage of a cheat in the game is immoral or moral sounds easy to you? The mods made the decision it's not fair/moral so said no to it; no exceptions.

The mods have made the decision they just don't want it on this particular site which reflects quite a lot of the views of users on this forums. For me personality I'm not condemning the people who do dupe, being quite honest I'm completely neutral on the topic; don't mind people who do it but don't participate in it myself.

- - - Post Merge - - -

But people like that are very rare, which is why the general consensus is duping = bad. And rightfully so.

^this sadly ):

 

[Divo]

Except that most dupers don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts - they do it because they want to dupe rare items to sell.

And this is a problem...why?

If someone is willing to pay obscene amounts of money for something, because they want to no less, why should we care how one obtains the item to sell to them?

If somebody did it simply because they wanted to say screw you to limited items and give them out to people who could not otherwise obtain them, then I completely understand.

But people like that are very rare, which is why the general consensus is duping = bad. And rightfully so.

Not at all. There is not a single legitimate reason to harp on people who duplicate. That some duplicate for profit is not a problem. It's no where near shame worthy.

- - - Post Merge - - -

And taking on the challenge of trying to pin down whether taking advantage of a cheat in the game is immoral or moral sounds easy to you?

I never said it was easy; though I do believe I have come to the proper conclusion, and am more than willing to hash it out with anyone who disagrees. I think you will find my logic wholly superior.

The mods made the decision it's not fair/moral so said no to it; no exceptions.

I fail to see how this matters at all. "The mods say so" doesn't actually mean anything. It doesn't make duping actually immoral, and it doesn't actually make it ban worthy. Mods are not gods, they are not perfect, and their wisdom and decision making is perfectly open to critique.

The mods have made the decision they just don't want it on this particular site which reflects quite a lot of the views of users on this forums.

Again, useless authoritarian nonsense. "The mods say so" does not justify the mods decision, nor the views of, what you claim to be, most people of the site. Their views are wrong.

For me personality I'm not condemning the people who do dupe, being quite honest I'm completely neutral on the topic; don't mind people who do it but don't participate in it myself.

Which seems to be the attitude of everyone who has posted in this topic...so I question that such negative views of duping are held by "most" of the community.

 

[rosiebelle]

I never said the mods were gods, they're just users who run the site in an effective and friendly manner that provide a happy community to most people who want to enjoy the game. Happily critique their decision - I never mentioned anywhere the mods=gods, debate with them if you like and I'm sure they're very happy to respond to you as to why they don't agree duping is appropriate on this site. If you're so insistant their views are 'wrong' - take it up with them

Generally this board isn't a good slice of life when it comes to providing evidence of the general attitude for the boards, you've initiated a debate so generally mature users who see good points on both sides of an argument will post. When you make a question about the majority of the trading community, I'll use a quick casestudy - didn't you try posting whether anyone was interesting in duping just days ago on the trade boards at a very busy time? How many responses of interest did you get? None from what I could see on the board. Well-known traders pointed to the rules and said they weren't interested in cheating.

 

[Divo]

I never said the mods were gods, they're just users who run the site in an effective and friendly manner that provide a happy community to most people who want to enjoy the game.

And they are evidently not doing this, when banning discussion of duplicating.

Happily critique their decision - I never mentioned anywhere the mods=gods, debate with them if you like and I'm sure they're very happy to respond to you as to why they don't agree duping is appropriate on this site. If you're so insistant their views are 'wrong' - take it up with them.

I am more than happy to (and attempting to do so with them and others here). But it seemed to me you were implying earlier that "the mods say so, so it's gonna be this way". Am I incorrect in that assessment?

Generally this board isn't a good slice of life when it comes to providing evidence of the general attitude for the boards, you've initiated a debate so generally mature users who see good points on both sides of an argument will post. When you make a question about the majority of the trading community, I'll use a quick casestudy - didn't you try posting whether anyone was interesting in duping just days ago on the trade boards at a very busy time? How many responses of interest did you get? None from what I could see on the board. Well-known traders pointed to the rules and said they weren't interested in cheating.

Actually I was asking if anyone wanted to trade gold roses with me, because I was too lazy to duplicate them myself. So just the opposite actually, I wasn't asking to dupe, and yet, by the mere mention of the term, the topic was filled with nothing but elitist snobbery it seemed. Which is even worse than what you are implying. Point taken.

 

[rosiebelle]

I am more than happy to (and attempting to do so with them and others here). But it seemed to me you were implying earlier that "the mods say so, so it's gonna be this way". Am I incorrect in that assessment?

^^ I'm not saying the mods are perfect or always right in the way they run the site, however many times I've seen individual mods deal with some very tricky and generally nasty situations between users very well compared to other mods on other sites - take the way the mods on ACC deal with villager trading for example. Generally the users have reached a general consensus to agree with the mods that duping is technically cheating so I'm going to say that I agree with the majority, not in the sense that I'm blindly following the herd, but simply because my view already reflected what the mods had instated.

I'm not agreeing with the mods becausethe mods say so, I had thought this way before I ended up on belltree having my fair share of looking around ACC, Reddit, Gamefaqs. The mods have generally reflected most of my views on certain issues throughout my time here so I generally trust them to instate rules that I might come to myself if I were in their position.

Hm, yes; generally the people on that forums were under the impression that duping=cheating=bad and that duping can potentially damage your game, even in some cases duping=cheating=scamming - a generally incorrect assumption but it would explain your board's effect.

edit/ hello to the lurkers out there - i see you. (◕‿◕✿)

 

[beffa]

what's the damn point in duping geez where's the fun in cheating your stuff rather than earning it. i mean i TT, so i haven't earned a lot of my stuff but i give a lot away because of it like dang flabbit don't dupe just because you want more pixel money like that's hella dumb

 

[rosiebelle]

what's the damn point in duping geez where's the fun in cheating your stuff rather than earning it. i mean i TT, so i haven't earned a lot of my stuff but i give a lot away because of it like dang flabbit don't dupe just because you want more pixel money like that's hella dumb

0.0 wut

 

[beffa]

0.0 wut

lel sorry i'm tired

 

[rosiebelle]

lel sorry i'm tired

I think it's time you went to bed before the grammar police attack. Okay?

 

[Divo]

^^ I'm not saying the mods are perfect or always right in the way they run the site, however many times I've seen individual mods deal with some very tricky and generally nasty situations between users very well compared to other mods on other sites - take the way the mods on ACC

Which shall not speak of that cursed place. >.>

But seriously, I hate the staff of that damn website. They're flippin nazis. They permabanned me because I was criticizing a decision of theirs, and they did so by going through my private messages, and banning me for a conversation I was having with another member about our mutual dislike of the staff. They are some of the most corrupt *******s I've ever met on the internet. I only ever used that website for their online catalog anyway really, and now that the ACNL app is up and running fully, and ACC can't get it's catalog of the ground, I have no reason to go back ever. I'm glad to be rid of that place.

Generally the users have reached a general consensus to agree with the mods that duping is technically cheating so I'm going to say that I agree with the majority, not in the sense that I'm blindly following the herd, but simply because my view already reflected what the mods had instated.

I am more than willing to contest that it is cheating, mainly because I hold there is a large difference between "cheating", "exploiting", and "utilizing".

And even so, if it is cheating, that does not justify the banning of it's discussion on the boards.

Hm, yes; generally the people on that forums were under the impression that duping=cheating=bad and that duping can potentially damage your game

There are a lot of rumors about loss of save data and file corruption, but really, the only actual substantiated accounts are when one powers off the game while saving, instead of flicking the wifi switch off. Which makes sense when you think about it, considering the game tells you in big letters not to power off the system while saving, haha. But so long as you do it properly, the risk of file corruption is no different than if the connection dropped normally; i.e., nil.

 

[beffa]

I think it's time you went to bed before the grammar police attack. Okay?

LOL it's okay, I don't usually type like...that. It's like 2:30am here ;_;

 

[Divo]

what's the damn point in duping geez where's the fun in cheating your stuff rather than earning it.

Because for some people, the fun isn't the "earning" part, but the "living" part. Some people do not find having to go through the effort of waiting for random items to cycle through shops, and earning lots of money, to be "fun". For some people, "fun" is decorating their homes and living with their neighbors.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. AC is not a competitive game, no one is being wronged if some people choose to go through the effort of collecting things, and some don't.

i mean i TT, so i haven't earned a lot of my stuff

I disagree. You've still earned it; you just haven't waited long enough to get it all "normally".

Consider this: Every year, on New Year's, a different zodiac item becomes available for you to pick up from Isabelle. If you wanted to complete your catalog without time travel, you would have to wait twelve years before you could complete your catalog.

In City Folk, there were New Year's shirts that they had for every year; even years prior to the game's release. In order to get all of these "legitimately", you would have to wait until the Wii's internal clock maxed out and looped back t the year 2000. Which it still hasn't done, and won't do, for several several years from now.


This is why I find "legitimacy" to be such an inane, stupid argument. It's nothing more than forcing a set of arbitrary requirements on people that make them, on some occasions, go through completely asinine requirements before they can have something they desire, and could have obtained much more simply by other means. All it does is take away from the fun of the game in these scenarios, so to tote it around like some objectively good standard is delusional. Abide by it if you wish; but it's asinine to expect everyone else to as well.

don't dupe just because you want more pixel money like that's hella dumb

I disagree with this as well. Consider this: The maximum Post Office reward comes from saving 100M in your bank. Saving more than that nets you nothing but personal satisfaction and storage. There's no "reward" for maxing your bank account at that point. So beyond 100M, what is the "legitimacy" argument for why people should not dupe, say, royal crowns, and sell them for high prices at retail, in order to max their bank account out? I contend there isn't a single decent one.

 

[radical6]

eh i dont think you should dupe a rare set and sell them for so much. thats kinda unfair tbh like? selling them so crazy and then duping another set is really unfair. theyre expensive because they're rare & hard to obtain.

if you sell em for less or even better - give them away, then keep it up i guess?? idk

and wow i didnt know there was a small chance of ruining the file... oh well i still wouldn't do it?? yeah

 

[beffa]

Because for some people, the fun isn't the "earning" part, but the "living" part. Some people do not find having to go through the effort of waiting for random items to cycle through shops, and earning lots of money, to be "fun". For some people, "fun" is decorating their homes and living with their neighbors.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. AC is not a competitive game, no one is being wronged if some people choose to go through the effort of collecting things, and some don't.




I disagree. You've still earned it; you just haven't waited long enough to get it all "normally".

Consider this: Every year, on New Year's, a different zodiac item becomes available for you to pick up from Isabelle. If you wanted to complete your catalog without time travel, you would have to wait twelve years before you could complete your catalog.

In City Folk, there were New Year's shirts that they had for every year; even years prior to the game's release. In order to get all of these "legitimately", you would have to wait until the Wii's internal clock maxed out and looped back t the year 2000. Which it still hasn't done, and won't do, for several several years from now.


This is why I find "legitimacy" to be such an inane, stupid argument. It's nothing more than forcing a set of arbitrary requirements on people that make them, on some occasions, go through completely asinine requirements before they can have something they desire, and could have obtained much more simply by other means. All it does is take away from the fun of the game in these scenarios, so to tote it around like some objectively good standard is delusional. Abide by it if you wish; but it's asinine to expect everyone else to as well.




I disagree with this as well. Consider this: The maximum Post Office reward comes from saving 100M in your bank. Saving more than that nets you nothing but personal satisfaction and storage. There's no "reward" for maxing your bank account at that point. So beyond 100M, what is the "legitimacy" argument for why people should not dupe, say, royal crowns, and sell them for high prices at retail, in order to max their bank account out? I contend there isn't a single decent one.

;___; Okay okay... You got me. Thanks for that, that's actually kind of swayed me.

 

[Divo]

eh i dont think you should dupe a rare set and sell them for so much. thats kinda unfair tbh like? selling them so crazy and then duping another set is really unfair. theyre expensive because they're rare hard to obtain.

I fail to see how it's unfair in the least. The reason they have ridiculously high prices is because people want to make massive amounts of money by selling the, and there are people, with massive amounts of money, willing to give that money away for those items. That one duped for the item instead of going by other means does not seem to impact that trade in any significant way. Your complaint seems to be that some people are making money faster than others. What a ridiculously petty complaint.

Duping rare sets is no different than buying multiple sets, or in the case of one-time DLC, creating multiple characters to get the DLC several times (which many people in Europe did when that one ice cream lamp item came out).

 

[kittenrobotarmy]

Allow me to butt in for a moment.

Duping is worse than TT, sure. That doesn't mean it should be banned from being talked about. I think you've forgotten some important things:
-Duping is a GLITCH, not a CHEAT.
-It's all pixels, people.
-I don't see why people are giving dupers crap. THEY didn't make the glitch or discover it.
-Glitches are not intended. Cheats are. See the difference?

I'll just lurk this thread now. Remind yourselves, is this really even important? Why can't we all get along?

 

[Divo]

Allow me to butt in for a moment.

Duping is worse than TT, sure.

I'm not exactly sure why you consider this to be so. Exploiting a glitch and exploiting a functionality of the internal clock seems to be to be the same kind of "evil" (if you can even call it that), that being exploitation of the way the game functions.

Remind yourselves, is this really even important? Why can't we all get along?

Yes, it is important. Why? Because it's a philosophical matter of justice and morality. If some people want to discuss an activity, and possibly make plans to do said activity, what is you justification for stripping them of this freedom? What is your justification for denying them this happiness?

Without a sound one, to do so is an injustice, and immoral.

 

[radical6]

I fail to see how it's unfair in the least. The reason they have ridiculously high prices is because people want to make massive amounts of money by selling the, and there are people, with massive amounts of money, willing to give that money away for those items. That one duped for the item instead of going by other means does not seem to impact that trade in any significant way. Your complaint seems to be that some people are making money faster than others. What a ridiculously petty complaint.

Duping rare sets is no different than buying multiple sets, or in the case of one-time DLC, creating multiple characters to get the DLC several times (which many people in Europe did when that one ice cream lamp item came out).

but like?? i mean if you dupe like 30 7/11 sets and sell them for like 30 million thats kinda unfair? the reason why these sets are so rare and hard to obtain is because they're hard to get. when you have tons of them it kinda loses the reason why it was so hard to obtain in the first place. which kinda makes the price go down?? i mean i wouldnt mind if you sold them for 2 million because hey thats kinda cheap for some people and some people can afford that

i dont really care if someone is richer than me but in my eyes thats unfair?? sorry. i don't have problem if you maybe have like 4 of them from having a side character and getting 7/11 sets. cool. whatever

 

[Divo]

but like?? i mean if you dupe like 30 7/11 sets and sell them for like 30 million thats kinda unfair?

Why? The result is no different than if they had only one set and sold it for 30 million. There is a seller and a buyer, and they have a price they agree upon.

Really, selling having multiple duped sets just means more people can buy it for 30 million, meaning more people can be happy and have the items they want. This is a bad thing...why?

the reason why these sets are so rare and hard to obtain is because they're hard to get.

I think you're confusing "hard to get" with "lucky". Obtaining (most) items in AC is not a test of skill; it's a test of luck. Either luck, in being born in the right location at the right time, or luck, in having the item randomly appear in your shop.

when you have tons of them it kinda loses the reason why it was so hard to obtain in the first place.

Again, luck, not difficulty.

And...who cares? Again, you worked so hard to get that 7-11 set, I'm so certain. Being born in the right part of the globe, at the right time in human history, requires so much effort.

Further more, it doesn't devalue the effort at all. If there's an item that is legitimately about skill (the golden tools for example), you can still brag to people about how you got them "legitimately" instead of by buying them from someone.

Keep in mind, the whole concept of trading items with others over the internet, and the online economy, is entirely "illegitimate" too.


I think the real question is, why are you so opposed to allowing others to get the items they want more easily, so they can have a happier gaming experience? If you want to play by a strict set of guidelines and rules, go ahead. But there is nothing wrong with others not wishing to do so with their games, and it doesn't impact you in any way.

which kinda makes the price go down??

Which is a bad thing...why? Again, it allows for more people to get what they want.

Further more, the price going down is inevitable. Money is infinite, inflation is inevitable. AC does not have a real economy. And the price going down only makes the items more legitimate. I mean, after all, the game prices them for no where near 30 million bells.

i mean i wouldnt mind if you sold them for 2 million because hey thats kinda cheap for some people and some people can afford that

i dont really care if someone is richer than me but in my eyes thats unfair??

So what you're saying is you have a problem with (1) people making more money than you, and (2) people having greater access to items they desire, meaning (3) you have a problem with people increasing their happiness in their gaming experience.

^Legitimacy people.