Can we talk about Dueping on here?

[catman_]

I can't particularly agree it's unfair either. You could say it's "illegitimate", but, well, **** legitimacy. It's illegitimate to time travel too, but I'm not going to sit around and wait for twelve years before I can complete my catalog in New Leaf, elitism be damned.

unfair in the sense that you can dupe complete sets and make tens of millions when time traveling still takes much more longer to do.

 

[Garrett x50 cal]

Everyone to their own, I personally see it as cheating. It ruins the game. Although, I have the same opinion as most of the people on here, those who have a difference of opinion are entitled. It shouldn't be spoken about on here if I'm quite honest as we're a well known community and don't want the name besmirched by those who wish to duplicate items of which wasn't intended for their region or do not wish to play the game correctly.

Who exactly is TBT trying uphold an image or moral superiority to? ACC? AXA?

 

[Divo]

I'm afraid it is not that simple; my whole point was that dupers are everywhere (on these forums aswell), and because of that it is nearly impossible to not be affected by dupers.

What matters isn't whether or not one is affected. It's whether or not an unconsenting individual is adversely affected. And you'll be damned to try and find proof that duping adversely affects others.

Besides, have you ever seen anyone on these forums, or actually any AC forums, that begin their thread by stating that they are dupers?

Well, when it's allowed, yeah actually.

The fact that certain items are expensive means that people that want to play the game "legit", or vanilla, whatever you like to call it, either have to spend an insane amount of time of grinding/selling turnips, whilst other people are abusing a glitch that wasn't even supposed to be there.

...I'm not seeing the problem here. I mean, I see a problem, in that people who are greedy way overprice items they have a monopoly on. But I don't see how duping contributes to this problem. If anything, it reduces it.

Which brings me to my next point, one that Lunatic brought to my attention:
To truly define how this game is supposed to be played is difficult, because this game places a lot of emphasis on playing this game together with your friends.
At that point, trading becomes a rather obvious way to exchange items with each others and help each other to get more desirable pieces of furniture and other items, and it has been this way for a while now.
If this wasn't how the game was supposed to be played, then why didn't Nintendo took out this "feature" a long time ago?

Because trading isn't a "feature" to begin with. Just like how in City Folk, "games" were not a feature. Yet the online community came up with ideas, based on how the game functioned, to do these kinds of things.

If trading was an intended feature, we would see something like we do now when it comes to games. An actual, official post to go to to engage in that activity. We would probably see something like Runscape's "Grand Exchange", where people could post items and search for items, and purchase them over wifi. That's intending something.


But the trading we do now is wholly unintended by the programmers. It's simply the results of being able to drop and pick up items, which itself is the result of making sure the game doesn't glitch out if you try to pick up an item when your inventory is already full. It's entirely unplanned and unintended. This is further evidenced by the fact the game actually gives in-game values for certain items. Values that are almost entirely ignored when dealing with the online trading community.


Trading simply is not an intended feature of the game, and buying something from someone else over the trading boards is just as much an exploitation of functionality as time travel, creating multiple characters, or duping.

Glitches on the other hand, are just that; glitches.
They are accidents, they weren't supposed to be there.
The fact that the online market depends on such a thing means that a lot of people are forced in one way or another to participate in this market, a market which wasn't supposed to exist in the first place.

There's a market for duping? I've never heard of such a thing.

You seem to be complaining about the prices of things at the market. How, exactly, are high prices the fault of duping? High prices existed long before the duping glitch was uncovered. If you should be directing your complaints at anyone, it's the tyrants who wish to ban duping, so they can be a minority in possession of the majority of valuable resources, and charge insane prices for them. Capitalistic greed at it's finest.

- - - Post Merge - - -

unfair in the sense that you can dupe complete sets and make tens of millions when time traveling still takes much more longer to do.

So inevitably your complaint comes down to some people not "waiting long enough"?

What an incredibly inane objection.

- - - Post Merge - - -

Everyone to their own, I personally see it as cheating. It ruins the game for me.

Fix'd.

Although, I have the same opinion as most of the people on here, those who have a difference of opinion are entitled. It shouldn't be spoken about on here if I'm quite honest as we're a well known community and don't want the name besmirched by those who wish to duplicate items

1) Not all opinions are of equal merit.

2a) Besmirched? How in god's name is the website's name "besmirched" by allowing people to discuss duplicating?

I mean, you do realize, people are still duping, even with the ban, yes? Just instead of discussing it here, they'll open up an offsite chat or something, and talk about their plans to dupe there. But those people are still members of this website, they are still members of this community, and they still come to sell their wares here.

Honestly, what are you actually preventing by banning the discussion of duplicating? It's like the ridiculous "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" law that the American government had just a short while ago. It doesn't actually change anything, other than the level of openness these people can experience.

2b) Who, exactly, are we holding a reputation up to? Who are we trying to impress? Ourselves?

of which wasn't intended for their region

So you're saying people who were not lucky enough to be born in the right part of the globe, do not deserve certain items, and are not playing "legitimately" if they seek to get those items?

Again, **** legitimacy then. I don't give a damn about some arbitrary standard some snob decides to come up with. I care much more about enjoying my game.

or do not wish to play the game correctly.

There is no "incorrect" way to play a non-competitive video game.

 

[catman_]

you're an incredibly inane objection lol

jk

 

[Zhados]

@Garrett x50 cal
1. There are a lot of dupers on these forums, however there are also plenty of people that play the game without relying on this particular glitch.
I never said otherwise.

2. Which is against the rules.
Of course this isn't an argument, so...
Yes you can ask, but most people don't as they don't care, and the person that I am trading with might very well be trading a duped item without knowing.

3. It depends; if someone who doesn't dupe wants to participate in trading villagers, then that person has no or little means of getting hold of the villager (especially populair ones such as Ankha).
With DLC it depends really; if you're lucky you can find someone who is kind enough to either give you the item for free or for a reasonable price.
Also, DLC prices usually "hang" betwees these two extremes; either free or in the 20M+ range (yet another example of how duping affects online trading).

4. I never was talking about right or wrong, just merely the way the developers wanted their audience to enjoy their game (which isn't happening right now).
Also whether something is right or wrong, you can ask yourself this question about anything.
Whether something is important enough to spend time pondering about this question however, is completely optional and irrelevant.

5. Thank you for rephrasing my point.

6. And I completely agree, it's just that this particular glitch is affecting nearly the entire online community, which is why we are discussing it right now.

7. I personally do not mind if an item has been duped or not.
Frankly, I don't think that constantly worrying about items and whether they are duped or not is a very enjoyable way of playing this game.

 

[Divo]

Yes you can ask, but most people don't as they don't care, and the person that I am trading with might very well be trading a duped item without knowing.

Why do you care? A duped item is exactly like any other item. It's programing is absolutely no different. It's just like if I went to the catalog and ordered something from Nook, and gave it to you.

Why are you so paranoid about that? Does it really matter that much to you how another player obtained their item?

3. It depends; if someone who doesn't dupe wants to participate in trading villagers, then that person has no or little means of getting hold of the villager (especially populair ones such as Ankha).

Which isn't the fault of duping, that's the fault of the online trading community overpricing things because they can get away with it.

With DLC it depends really; if you're lucky you can find someone who is kind enough to either give you the item for free or for a reasonable price.
Also, DLC prices usually "hang" betwees these two extremes; either free or in the 20M+ range (yet another example of how duping affects online trading).

Again, the fault of the online trading community and people being greedy, not duplicating.

I really don't see how you can hold duplicating at fault for any of your complaints here. Duplicating solves these problems.

4. I never was talking about right or wrong, just merely the way the developers wanted their audience to enjoy their game (which isn't happening right now).

Who cares how the developers want or intended for us to play? What matters is how we want to play. AC is competitive, so it's not like we're breaking some moral standard of sportsmanship if we do "illegitimate" or "unintended" things. The developer's will is meaningless.

And I again must reiterate how trading itself is unintended, as is the obtaining of region-exclusive DLC.

 

[Garrett x50 cal]

1. There are a lot of dupers on these forums, however there are also plenty of people that play the game without relying on this particular glitch. I never said otherwise.

Then why are you complaining about those that do? You said theres "so many" flooding the market or whatnot.

2. Which is against the rules.
Of course this isn't an argument, so...

Gramatical fail "Which is against the rules. Of course this isn't an argument, so..." lolwut?

Yes you can ask, but most people don't as they don't care, and the person that I am trading with might very well be trading a duped item without knowing.

MY GOD THE WORLD IS ON FIRE OH NO NOT DUPED ITEM NOOOOOO They're exactly the same did you know Nintendo had to dupe the items themselves otherwise there would be only one copy of AC:NL every item you received was duped it's a dirty feeling isn't it?

3. It depends; if someone who doesn't dupe wants to participate in trading villagers, then that person has no or little means of getting hold of the villager (especially populair ones such as Ankha).
With DLC it depends really; if you're lucky you can find someone who is kind enough to either give you the item for free or for a reasonable price.
Also, DLC prices usually "hang" betwees these two extremes; either free or in the 20M+ range (yet another example of how duping affects online trading).

*sigh*
Thanks for not quoting what I wrote so I don't know why you wrote "it depends." Anyway you could still obtain your precious villagers without duping I made 9 million on turnips one week.
As for items duping doesn't cause the price of items to go up, it only causes them to decrease please show me an example where the price increased.

4. I never was talking about right or wrong, just merely the way the developers wanted their audience to enjoy their game (which isn't happening right now).

The only people who "aren't having fun" are people like who cry about glitches. Look. People who dupe? Happy.
People who don't dupe themselves but they don't care if others do. Happy.
People who want everyone to play the exact same communist way? Not happy.

Also whether something is right or wrong, you can ask yourself this question about anything.
Whether something is important enough to spend time pondering about this question however, is completely optional and irrelevant.

What? This is why quotations are important.

5. Thank you for rephrasing my point.

And thank you for not quoting what I wrote, what did I rephrase?

6. And I completely agree, it's just that this particular glitch is affecting nearly the entire online community, which is why we are discussing it right now.

Not sure what you agree to.

7. I personally do not mind if an item has been duped or not.
Frankly, I don't think that constantly worrying about items and whether they are duped or not is a very enjoyable way of playing this game.

Then why are we having this discussion? Aren't you on my side then?

 

[Zhados]

@Divo
1.
Please read the last sentence of my previous post.
The only extinction I made between duped and non-duped item was... Well just that actually, I never stated that their programming would be different or anything similar.
The "problem" is that a duper made money with whatever he had duped, and the idea behind having an item that has not been bought regularly is disruptive to quite a lot of people.
If memory serves a lot of people made a big fuss of clones pokemon aswell years ago.
This wasn't actually not a point that I was trying to make, just a fact of how duped items "integrate" in the game (especially DLC).

2. Duping allows people to be (more) greedy, and therefore allows such behavior.

3. Duplicating causes and partially solves the problem.

4. I personally do not care too much, I was simply stating a fact, which proves that the online economy has changed into something it wasn't supposed to be (an economy which resolves around dupers, that is).
I must say the I prefer the "intended" way, but that is just my opinion.

Again, if trading is unintended then why has it been around for such a long time?
Also, Nintendo apparently found that trading bugs and various ocean creatures would make completing the museum too easy, so they made it so that people can't trade them.

 

[Garrett x50 cal]

Why Duping is a win. (Made by myself.)

 

[nintendofan61]

If I understood a past explanation earlier, the Duplication trick can not be fixed. Notice I said trick. It's not a glitch. According to another user, duplication simply "tricks the natural saving process." I think personally, this could go either way. You can agree for it or not. You can think it's cheating or not. But it's not a glitch, it's just a trick. If you wanna believe it's cheating, go ahead. I personally do not agree for it. But there is no right or wrong answer to "Do you believe duplicating is cheating?" Everyone will perceive it differently.

 

[Zhados]

@Garrett x50 cal

I personally don't like quoting too much, but I do appreciate that you keep reminding me to use quotations.
So thank you.
Also, I think It is obvious that 1. 2. and so on show what quote I am addressing.

1. Because dupers are determing the market prices now.
2. I don't think this sentence was particularly hard to comprehend, but maybe that is just me.
3. Could you kindly read my entire post before responding?
4. Because the rarity of the item determines whether it will be duped or not, and therefore determines the price.
Also some villagers go usually for 40M+, meaning that you have to wait for atleast an entire month to be able to afford certain villagers.
5. I'm perfectly fine with people playing their games the way they want, but it also caused certain issues (ridiculously high prices, items losing their value) which I am addressing right now.
6. Read 1. and refer to previous post.
7. Read 1. and refer to previous post.
8. I find that playing the game without duplicating is more enjoyable, but that doesn't mean that I am going to complain everyday when visiting these forums about duping.
I find this game enjoyable with the duping part as well, I am just expressing why I would find it more enjoyable without duping.

 

[Garrett x50 cal]

@Garrett x50 cal

I personally don't like quoting too much, but I do appreciate that you keep reminding me to use quotations.
So thank you.
Also, I think It is obvious that 1. 2. and so on show what quote I am addressing.

1. Because dupers are determing the market prices now.
2. I don't think this sentence was particularly hard to comprehend, but maybe that is just me.
3. Could you kindly read my entire post before responding?
4. Because the rarity of the item depends whether it will be duped or not, and therefore determines the price.
Also some villagers go usually for 40M+, meaning that you have to wait for atleast an entire month to be able to afford certain villagers.
5. I'm perfectly fine with people playing their games the way they want, but it also caused certain issues (ridiculously high prices, items losing their value) which I am addressing right now.
6. Read 1. and refer to previous post.
7. Read 1. and refer to previous post.
8. I find that playing the game without duplicating is more enjoyable, but that doesn't mean that I am going to complain everyday when visiting these forums about duping.
I find this game enjoyable with the duping part as well, I am just expressing why I would find it more enjoyable without duping.

How incredibly rude. I personally don't like responding to ill-informed people such as yourself so this will be my last.

Closing thoughts

Theres nothing wrong with duping it only lowers the prices of goods.
Crazy high villager prices are set by dupers and non dupers alike.

 

[Kaiaa]

I believe the Bell Tree has a don't ask, don't tell view on Duping items. Don't talk about it on the Bell tree, I've seen many threads close because people were asking for duped items or selling/giving them away. If you Dupe, it's best to keep it to yourself because duping is one of those "flame-war" things, just like time travel.

 

[Garrett x50 cal]

If I understood a past explanation earlier, the Duplication trick can not be fixed. Notice I said trick. It's not a glitch. According to another user, duplication simply "tricks the natural saving process." I think personally, this could go either way. You can agree for it or not. You can think it's cheating or not. But it's not a glitch, it's just a trick. If you wanna believe it's cheating, go ahead. I personally do not agree for it. But there is no right or wrong answer to "Do you believe duplicating is cheating?" Everyone will perceive it differently.

Isn't tricking and glitching essentially the same thing? I mean call it whatever you want - it does what it does.

 

[Divo]

@Divo
1.
Please read the last sentence of my previous post.
The only extinction I made between duped and non-duped item was... Well just that actually, I never stated that their programming would be different or anything similar.

Then whence arises the concern for "duped" items versus "non-duped" items?

The "problem" is that a duper made money with whatever he had duped, and the idea behind having an item that has not been bought regularly is disruptive to quite a lot of people.

I fail to see why this is a problem at all. The person who wanted the item got what they wanted. The person who wanted money got it too. Everyone involved in the exchange is happy.

Why are you unhappy at other's happiness? Why to be happy do you and others need to strip them of their happiness?

If memory serves a lot of people made a big fuss of clones pokemon aswell years ago.
This wasn't actually not a point that I was trying to make, just a fact of how duped items "integrate" in the game (especially DLC).

And I really don't see a problem with this. It doesn't cause game crashes or anything negative. It's literally just increasing the potential for others to get what they want. That's a bad thing because...?

2. Duping allows people to be (more) greedy, and therefore allows such behavior.

I fail to see evidence of this. I suppose it allows them to be more greedy, in that they can sell more of an item. But if you're trying to insinuate that duping somehow allows them to charge higher prices, you are flat out wrong. Duping causes just the opposite. As the market floods with items, there is a greater potential for lower prices, or sometimes, even free giveaways.

3. Duplicating causes and partially solves the problem.

Duplicating does not cause the problem in any way. And it does much more to solve the problem than banning it does.

4. I personally do not care too much, I was simply stating a fact, which proves that the online economy has changed into something it wasn't supposed to be (an economy which resolves around dupers, that is).

1) No, it has not.
2) "Something it wasn't supposed to be"? As dictated by who? You?
3) Who cares? This economy is better for everyone. More people getting the items they want means more people are enjoying their games. Why is this bad?

Again, if trading is unintended then why has it been around for such a long time?

You can make the same argument about duplicating or time travel. You realize duplicating has been in every animal crossing game, right? As has time travel. As has made up games. As has trading.

Also, Nintendo apparently found that trading bugs and various ocean creatures would make completing the museum too easy, so they made it so that people can't trade them.

No, Nintendo since the first game replaced the "drop" function when catching bugs and fish with the "release" option, because it would make little sense, and possibly glitch the game, to be able to, for instance, drop a fish or bug in the middle of the ocean.

That inadvertently made it so that the fan-made trading community could not "trade" bugs or fish.


You're projecting reasons onto them that have very simply programming explanations behind them. Nintendo did not intend trading to be a thing, and Nintendo did not program it so you could not trade bugs and fish. Just as being able to drop items inadvertently gave rise to the fan-made concept of "trading", the replacement of "drop" with "release" made it so you could not "trade", or in otherwise, drop.

 

[nintendofan61]

Isn't tricking and glitching essentially the same thing? I mean call it whatever you want - it does what it does.

Ok then, I won't use trick. I'll use method. It's not a glitch. So don't believe it is.

- - - Post Merge - - -

Isn't tricking and glitching essentially the same thing? I mean call it whatever you want - it does what it does.

Ok then, I won't use trick. I'll use method. It's not a glitch. So don't believe it is.

 

[Zhados]

How incredibly rude. I personally don't like responding to ill-informed people such as yourself so this will be my last.

Closing thoughts

Theres nothing wrong with duping it only lowers the prices of goods.
Crazy high villager prices are set by dupers and non dupers alike.

A personal attack (calling me ill-informed) and then continue by not elaborating on why I'm ill-informed, and then the "hit and run"?
And the grammar thingy?
Personally I found the constant reminder of having to use quotations somewhat irrigating and rude, but I had no intentions whatsoever to come over as rude, or to insult you, I just am being direct and honest.
I actually prefer to have a civilized conversation rather that one with name calling and ill-mannered behavior, so I am disappointed that this conversation went this way.

 

[Divo]

1. Because dupers are determing the market prices now.

[citation needed]

Seriously, things are no different than they were before, other than that small minorities can no longer have a stranglehold over others and force them to pay ridiculous amounts of money for items that are nowhere near worth that much in game. That's a good thing. If that's "dupers de terming prices", then by all means, I welcome it.

4. Because the rarity of the item determines whether it will be duped or not, and therefore determines the price.
Also some villagers go usually for 40M+, meaning that you have to wait for atleast an entire month to be able to afford certain villagers.

Again, not the fault of duping. This problem is solved by duping.

5. I'm perfectly fine with people playing their games the way they want, but it also caused certain issues (ridiculously high prices, items losing their value) which I am addressing right now.

Oh the irony. Duping is just the spawn of Satan, isn't it? It both RAISES and LOWERS item prices! The *******!

But seriously, what the hell are you talking about? I don't think you have a proper grasp of the situation. Being able to duplicate items does not raise prices. It lowers them, or more accurately, increases the potential to find lower options. It does not, in any way, raise prices. Since the the discovery of duping, items have universally gone down in price. Before some items were prices insanely high. Why? Because some people were lucky enough to be part of a minority who could gain certain items, and put a stranglehold around others, and charge whatever they pleased.

Now we are liberated from that.

 

[Garrett x50 cal]

Ok then, I won't use trick. I'll use method. It's not a glitch. So don't believe it is.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Ok then, I won't use trick. I'll use method. It's not a glitch. So don't believe it is.

I suppose it's more of an "exploit" but I mean trick, glitch, exploit method it's pretty hazy.

 

[Divo]

I believe the Bell Tree has a don't ask, don't tell view on Duping items.

I compared it to this earlier. And if the removal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell should tell you anything, it's that this kind of policy is idiotic.

If you Dupe, it's best to keep it to yourself because duping is one of those "flame-war" things, just like time travel.

Alternatively, we tell those who start flaming others for harmless acts to go piss off, and if they don't, ban them. Solving discrimination with discrimination makes no sense.