Mafia [GAME THREAD] Karen Mafia (Endgame - Mafia Wins)

[Endless]

I know I can't compare but in another forum I play, mafia normally uses that excuse, not saying Evan did, but is common.

In a game where modkill is threatened for inactivity (And the warning system wasn't mentioned), pretending to forget about the game d1 seems suicidal. I.e. he absolutely forgot about the game, but I don't think that means anything.

 

[glow]

i've just liked his content since he came in and i haven't been pinged by anything
i also don't think the total lack of activity d1 was scummy.

what defines his content as good? i'm still digesting his long post so mainly just referring to the stuff prior. do you think he justified his stances well or is it a tonal thing?

is the endless push reasonable to u?

for the record i don't think the activity is anything AI i fully believe he just forgot about the game too

 

[Ace Marvel]

You must vote in this game. If you fail to vote twice in a row you are subject to replacement or modkill, regardless of activity level.

In a game where modkill is threatened for inactivity (And the warning system wasn't mentioned), pretending to forget about the game d1 seems suicidal. I.e. he absolutely forgot about the game, but I don't think that means anything.

This was there from the start, I don't get that people are saying the warning system was not explained. All warnings giver were because people didn't vote.

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

And wether activity is counted or not, is on Geoni, we can't do anything about it.

 

[Endless]

Activity:
You must contribute at least five posts of substance per day. This means that if you only make a post, it needs to be more substantial than simply saying "I agree" or "RIP". If you post less than five posts but they're large, this rule may may be less strict. Substance is at the host's discretion, ultimately. Please PM the host ahead of time if you will have a specific phase that may not meet the requirement due to IRL circumstances. If it will for the rest of the game, consider letting someone in the replacements list play in your stead.

You must vote in this game. If you fail to vote twice in a row you are subject to replacement or modkill, regardless of activity level.

 

[Antonio]

I'm here but I got class so bare with me as I catch up.

 

[Endless]

EBWOP: @Ace Marvel This is the portion I was referring to. The top part a lot of people interpreted as "you will be modkilled if you don't meet post activity."

 

[Ace Marvel]

EBWOP: @Ace Marvel This is the portion I was referring to. The top part a lot of people interpreted as "you will be modkilled if you don't meet post activity."

Yeah in that you are right, it does not says you will get mod killed, but I as many assume it as a norm, but there is no point continuing this. I always look at the content, not the lack of.

 

[Aerious]

noah fence i'm still disagreeing with a of the stuff you're saying/how you're going about things but given our post-game discussion last time i am just letting things go if i don't like them because i do not want to argue/create tension. you always call me out for scumreading you which is just illogical because you've been confirmed town the past two games (so i was obviously townclearing you) and were scum the one before that. so make it make sense

i don't understand why you're FoSing people for townreading you? first glow and then me

you also have to consider this is the first mountainous game in a long time. i can read you a lot purer when you're not throwing out claims or taking control of the game because you have a PR

i’m not fosing, i’m exploring possibilities bc i think i approached this game horribly wrong

if i’m honest about my reads, i just think antonio/guava are town. you too maybe. antonio i’m leery on and wish he died d1 honestly. as i said previously, i can’t read them. and antonio is just straight up chaotic. i just think guava is low hanging fruit for an elim

i think volt and i are the only other 2 who’ve seen ace as mafia on em, and he just flat shut down and ignored game rules to dodge claiming. this is a pretty but juxtaposition of that occurrence, tho chaotic. i can’t read him correctly, the only time i did was in janitorial

that’s all i have thus far

 

[epona]

what defines his content as good? i'm still digesting his long post so mainly just referring to the stuff prior. do you think he justified his stances well or is it a tonal thing?

is the endless push reasonable to u?

for the record i don't think the activity is anything AI i fully believe he just forgot about the game too

yeah i liked his content prior to his long post, that's just bolstered it for me although need to re-read it because honestly took almost none of it in

tonal reads are not a very satisfactory reason so did skim back through his iso to see if i could pinpoint anything:

Spoiler: quotes

Day 1 goes by
Day 2 opens
Me:

Sorry I deadass forgot about this game and am about to have a party for several hours, but I will make an effort when I get back. Would appreciate someone hitting me with as unbiased a report as possible on D1 happenings (I'll still skim but no way am I reading every day 1 post)

i think his entry post is actually pretty towny
i know a lot of people didn't like it but asking for a summary in the thread feels like it comes from more of a town perspective. i don't think scum who are already at a disadvantage by virtue of forgetting about the game for the entire first phase come in admitting that they cba reading posts from d1 and asking for a summary. why not just ask scumchat to bring you up to speed instead of the thread at large

This post is giving me really bad vibes, esp bolded. Although I agree with italics I am sensing some ulterior motive for Tensu bringing this up (namely, to make Antonio look bad).

i think i just liked this bc it was a mindmeld with what i was thinking too aka antonio = town, tensu = muddy
(in my hypothetical scum!evan world this could be distancing bc he doesn't really deal with tensu again so that is a consideration)

I may have only been here since D2 started but that doesn’t mean I can’t give opinions at all. Rn those three are pinging me the most. Guav@ too now that I think of it. Just due to how much they piggyback you/@like your posts for little reason

his reads on both endless and guava are p consistent as far as i can see, guava is mentioned for the first time here bc of the fact that she's piggybacking so much on your posts which is reasoning the evan maintains later in the thread

What are the cfd options besides me? Idk if I’m comfortable mass switching from Kat this late

you and endless are the two glow has proposed
endless proposed guava
my vote isn’t moving

these two go together
if evan is scum he'd have been fine with a kat lynch. obviously his 'idk if i'm comfortable' reads as reluctance so it's worth looking at aerious' response. realistically i don't think an endless cfd was viable at the time bc a lot of people weren't actively around to change votes and there wasn't a huge push on him
guava could have been achieved bc endless was pushing for it, so unless guava and evan are teamed i don't really know what to take from this. bear in mind i wasn't around for eod2 so i might be misunderstanding the context of all of this

Glow/guav@ I don’t like at all but more because of guava@‘s behavior than glow’s

continuation of guava sus

I am not liking their constant glow sheeping and while I tend to be memey/chaotic at times, they tend to do so in a very disruptive and unhelpful way. Plus evasive answers to questions

more guava
[/QUOTE]

tldr i just don't see anything i hate in his iso, his entry felt town, and his reads have been consistent minus tensu. i lost the quote and cba to go back and find it again but he did bring up ronishy somewhere too so don't really know why he'd go on to kill them that night (but maybe just felt that wagon wouldn't gain traction idk)

like unless the team is literally guava/tensu/evan i just don't really see that world

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

also to add to that evan post, i understand people are conceding that he did genuinely forget about the game and his inactivity d1 is NAI, but i also think he's being subconsciously sussed more because of the inactivity. like if he had the same content but had been around since start of game i don't think he'd be under as much scrutiny, which is fair, but it's why i'm bringing up the activity thing at all

 

[Antonio]

pretty much, also your first post said "How in the world do you know if his reads are wrong or not? Only mafia knows what is right and wrong." i don't, clearly all i have is speculation but i finally contributed something (albeit chaotic and messy x)

You're still implying that if he is Town, his reads are wrong. How are you speculating that or how are you coming to that conclusion?

oh also it's not a plus, i'm providing 3 possibilities here.

So, instead of plus I should've said however, right?

Rewritten: So first, you baited Endless to decide if he is scum or not. He took the bait and went with it. You believe someone who is scum wouldn't take the bait because if you are voted off, people would assume Endless is scum. You wouldn't believe Endless scum would do that unless he is the mafia talking head and mafia is hiding under his reads (which I don't understand how being the talking head matters in this part, please clarify). However, if he is Town then his reads are wrong and mafia are using that to their advantage.

How exactly does being a mafia talking head fit into this scenario exactly?

I'm not getting you angle here Antonio, are you trying to sus someone or just waiting for a reaction? You been back and forth with some players, have you gotten anything?

The point is to understand where the person is coming from, their motive behind their actions. I ask them questions based on my suspicions and decide whether I should believe them or assume they are lying to me.

I have gotten quite a bit but I want more before deciding. I like being sure about things before acting.

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

the one time i hard defended her as town she flipped scum so i've just accepted by now that my reads are cursed with her.

Which game was this, exactly?

 

[epona]

You're still implying that if he is Town, his reads are wrong. How are you speculating that or how are you coming to that conclusion?

So, instead of plus I should've said however, right?

Rewritten: So first, you baited Endless to decide if he is scum or not. He took the bait and went with it. You believe someone who is scum wouldn't take the bait because if you are voted off, people would assume Endless is scum. You wouldn't believe Endless scum would do that unless he is the mafia talking head and mafia is hiding under his reads (which I don't understand how being the talking head matters in this part, please clarify). However, if he is Town then his reads are wrong and mafia are using that to their advantage.

How exactly does being a mafia talking head fit into this scenario exactly?


The point is to understand where the person is coming from, their motive behind their actions. I ask them questions based on my suspicions and decide whether I should believe them or assume they are lying to me.

I have gotten quite a bit but I want more before deciding. I like being sure about things before acting.

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

Which game was this, exactly?

janitorial i think

 

[Antonio]

janitorial i think

Ok, i'll look back at their posts but do you think they acted the same there or in a game where they were Town?

 

[amazonevan19]

i guess it would have been more reasonable to state "endless could easily be making posts like this as mafia"

This is in essence what I’m meaning. I’m sorry, Abe, if you took my post to mean that I don’t think you put effort into your posts. What I’m saying is that I think it’s not difficult to say what you’ve said from a scum perspective

 

[Geoni]

Two hours and thirty four minutes remain to vote until day ends at 5PM EST. Only 5/11 have voted so far. Also, I have stated the activity requirements in the rules and brought up activity and the need for voting activity multiple times this game.

 

[glow]

oh no did shawo get yall on em

i'm so sorry..

 

[epona]

ok i just ISO'd tensu

there's not a lot of content there and a lot of it feels like posting to be active but not actually posting anything susbtansial
i recommend people skim through their iso themselves bc i was going to quote a lot of stuff and then realised every quote would kind of be for the same purpose i.e. to show how they actually have not been contributing a lot and coasting, so you guys can just look at that for yourselves (there's only 2 pages)

here's what i did pick out:

Hey everybody. I’ve had a crazy busy day today so I haven’t been able to post up until now. Looking forward to live, laugh, and love throughout to course of this game!

first post is a justification for lack of posts which is something i personally Do Not Like but it's not necessarily AI, however it does happen again later in the thread so threw it in

Generally, I feel like everyone now is trying to avoid being too assertive and focusing on remaining null. Of course there have been posts but very little traction or actual substance. This makes me rather concerned we won’t be able to make an educated decision by EOD. Scum are just hoping we mislynch due to the limited analysis available at this point. I’m confident scum are just laying low among us, contributing but not adding anything of any real significance and possibly taking conversation off on tangents intentionally. But I’m opposed to a no lynch because then we’ll have less info to analyze later. I’m also opposed to lynching inactives because they’d probably end up modkilled and aren’t adding anything anyway. Not certain what to think right now... hopefully something interesting unfolds before EOD so we have a decent lynch candidate.

someone commented on this before, i can't remember who but think it may have been evan? that this post basically feels like tensu is describing their own behaviour in the thread
also would like to point out that tensu declares flat-out opposition to lynching inactives here

I understand but voting for an inactive could likely be a mislynch. Idk if we have any other ideas but it’s true that: a. inactives are no help because they’re... inactive. And b. they could end up modkilled in this game if we don’t lynch them possibly causing us to lose yet another townie. Just saying it’s important to weigh out our options.

Part of me feels like scum wouldn’t be inactive, and that they’re blending in with other contributing townies. But don’t get me wrong, I don’t understand townreading mog from her three posts. She’s definitely null for me.

and here

I feel like voting for an inactive is an excuse for scum to get an easy townie lynch. (The inactive would be replaced if modkilled anyway)

and here

Antonio: lets rng lynch
Antonio: just kidding
Antonio: lets rng lynch
Antonio: jk lets vote inactive
????
His overall play style just sounds like a scum trying to grab an easy lynch without any reasoning and without analyzing. This doesn’t sit well with me.

and here
4 posts in a 1.5 page iso regarding how bad an idea lynching inactives would be sticks out to me. i think this points to tensu being scum partners with either the radical6 slot or, as i already mentioned, with evan
those were the 2 inactives on the table to be lynched and it makes sense that tensu would try to steer away from that d1 instead of bussing

Morning Karens. I believe the sudden deddene bandwagon against the set Antonio lynch was mafia driven. The counter-wagon formed even faster than Antonio’s wagon during those final minutes so that raises a massive red flag for me. I’m honestly not sure why deddene was suspected as scum in the first place, she always came across as null or maybe slight TL for me. Antonio’s behavior, on the other hand, is hard to justify.

As for volt’s night 1 kill, I feel like scum were just trying to get rid of a more decent player. Volt voted for mogyay, but their elimination shouldn’t cast too much suspicious on mog. I believe pursuing that is probably a red herring so I’m not paying much attention to that.

this makes me think a tensu/radical team is a possibility

I’m gonna be gone in a bit through EOD so I’m just gonna place my vote now. My prime suspects are those who jumped on the dedenne CFD and (specifically Kat). I have a gut feeling, which I know is not much but at this point it’s the best I got. But others have pointed out some solid observations that I’m not gonna bother repeating as I’m sure you’re all aware. I’m easing off my suspicions of Antonio for now, which I talked about it in a previous post. Again, I don’t feel incredibly confident with this decision but it’s the best I’ve got now.

Hey peeps, I’m sorry for being so inactive lately. Classes, work, and practices have snuck up on me and I’ve been way busier than I anticipated I would be. I’ll read through all I’ve missed and gather my thoughts before EOD.

more inactivity excuses
i don't really care about activity like people have stuff to do it's a busy time i 100% understand that but when a large portion of your posting is just making excuses for where you've been then what's the point
just don't say anything at all it's pointless filler imo

i'm probably gonna vote for tensu

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

Ok, i'll look back at their posts but do you think they acted the same there or in a game where they were Town?

i honestly don't know
guava's playstyle is quite heavily reliant on claiming/PRs so it's difficult to read her in a vacuum when it's a mountainous setup
i've said from the start i'm trash at reading her

 

[amazonevan19]

Spoiler: Wowazonevan

No, Guav@ immediately went on to say this was not AI. This vote on me was the essential definition of an omgus, and did not stay.

Them stating.... that they didn't have a read? Ok. Like subjective opinions are subjective opinions but also no.

So.. rereading made you change your opinion about something that I provided you links to read the relevant portions of? Did you a) not click those links or b) are you just saying that the post reads very differently in context? (I don't think context matters as much because I literally documented everything I talked about with a million hyperlinks. It's pretty hard to not have read the portions that matter if people actually click those hyperlinks.)

I am honestly incredibly wounded by this post. "Easy content for any scum to... make"???? My man, I just spent 3.5 hours last night solidly typing out a giant reads post. I have likely reread more than any other player, I have cited the sources for my reads more than any other player (as I believe that helps with transparency), and am likely the player who put the most effort into this game regardless of alignment. Once again, this hurts.

Like? The entire point I make in my guav@ case is that they... don't. At all. Like, at any point. The only defense anyone has for guav@ at this point is literally "tone". Please feel free to point out these "solid points", I'm waiting.

guav@'s argument against me? Are you referring to "Lol endless didn't die" or "He's weird for <scumreading the person he lead a lynch on". Will need a response here.

Guav@ has had doubts about you consistently (to the point of a rxn test). Sure hasn’t come up to the point of a consistent sus but you two have been going at it for a while and her work informs my sr. The solid point she made is that you likely would’ve reacted to her rxn test differently as town

I read everything from D1, not just posts you hyperlinked (which I read before). Upon a full reread I didn’t let the fact that you posted a lot of analysis sway me as much and actually focused more on interactions and thinking about possible worlds.

Already addressed with my reply to glow. I don’t discount the work you did but just because you work hard doesn’t mean it proves your town.

 

[Antonio]

https://www.belltreeforums.com/search/324635/

Search results regarding Guava's scum meta. The only similairty I see is the death panic and meme-like behavior. I'm not sure that it means much, but I don't see much of a difference.

 

[epona]

https://www.belltreeforums.com/search/324635/

Search results regarding Guava's scum meta. The only similairty I see is the death panic and meme-like behavior. I'm not sure that it means much, but I don't see much of a difference.

ay, there's the rub

that is guava in every single game. it's not AI at all

 

[amazonevan19]

Regarding any defense of myself, I think people in general have honestly done a good enough job for me lol. I did legit forget about the game (not AI) but I lowkey could’ve just asked scum chat for a summary and tried to make a better set of entrance posts to look townie.

I’d really like the vote between endless and ace