Mafia [GAME THREAD] Karen Mafia (Endgame - Mafia Wins)

[glow]

am i the only one who didn't expect evan to post that lmao i'm so lost man

You're taking tone over <literally every read they've made was for a reason that was straight up terrible and were mostly refuted>

radical is right about guava imo they're a...memeposter (~trying not to swear~)

its clear how you read people and it's based upon how well you can follow or understand their motivation/logic etc regardless of whether or not you agree. i feel like an important part of that is also trying to frame that standard differently for different types of players/meta, but i don't expect you'll agree with that sentiment

i will just add on here that i don't think your posts are "easy for scum to make", they're very well formulated and some of the lines you've made i actually find it hard to believe you're mafia here

that line was confusing from evan and seemed kinda pseudo analytical

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

i guess it would have been more reasonable to state "endless could easily be making posts like this as mafia"

 

[epona]

my gut wants to vote for guava but i genuinely have a fear she'll flip town because that is always what happens
the one time i hard defended her as town she flipped scum so i've just accepted by now that my reads are cursed with her. i think endless is putting too much weight on individual aspects of his case against her if that makes sense
like when you look at his case as a whole it looks convincing but when you zoom in on the singular parts of it there's not really much there. i don't think that's necessarily AI for endless i just think the case doesn't mean as much as he thinks it does

i can't see evan as scum but i realise i need to re-evaluate things because i've said that about a lot of people and i have to be wrong somewhere

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

what grates me about guava is that aerious is right it shouldn't come to everyone scumreading her but knowing there's a massive possibility she'll flip town even if her behaviour warrants suspicion/being the lynch

it's a bit of a slap to everyone who actually puts effort into the game. i'm not saying guava doesn't put effort in because she obviously follows the thread closely, and reading everything in itself requires massive effort, but i guess i wish she'd just try harder to actually convince us and reassure us that she's town instead of leaving it to each player's internal guava-mental-struggle by just posting memes as responses to pushes against her

like i genuinely feel like she's been playing scummy but i also know her flip is literally 50/50. if it were another player playing in the same manner i'd be scumreading them like crazy right now

i'm frustrated

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

someone talk 2 me

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

it's going to get to 30 mins before EOD and then become suddenly chaotic again isn't it

 

[g u a v a]

hello i am here epon@

i am town!! i swear!! i would claim doc if i could right now. and my gameplay this time around is mostly bc of the lack of blue roles tbh. i usually have very little to go off with the added interest of pr. it’s been hard to read players being in a game without that pr dynamic to go off of.

i actually did read everything and the only thing i can come up with atm is my 3 scenarios that i posted earlier. they’re not great but that’s where i am rn.

also i may not be able to access the thread 20-22nd so... if i’m inactive it’s bcos i’m going out of town and unsure about cell service. i’ll post if possible

 

[Endless]

its clear how you read people and it's based upon how well you can follow or understand their motivation/logic etc regardless of whether or not you agree. i feel like an important part of that is also trying to frame that standard differently for different types of players/meta, but i don't expect you'll agree with that sentiment

Oh I absolutely agree, people should be read in the context of their own playstyle.
And to the best of my ability, I try and get in the head of that playstyle and analyse behaviour from that view point. (As a demonstration of this, I did initially townread guav@ just based on how they were reacting.)

It's not like I haven't played with players who don't necessarily care that much/are more here to have a good time before - there's players like that on any site. I'd like to believe that I've allowed for that.

I just believe that supplying false reasoning is just wildly indicative of mafia, regardless of playstyle.
You can absolutely make the argument "guav@ hasn't been reading the thread all that closely, and was just attempting to come up with reads based on their (incorrect) recollection of events", but I just don't really think guav@ would have this many inaccurate takes on how the game played out as town. (And without any accurate ones either.)

i will just add on here that i don't think your posts are "easy for scum to make", they're very well formulated and some of the lines you've made i actually find it hard to believe you're mafia here

that line was confusing from evan and seemed kinda pseudo analytical

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

i guess it would have been more reasonable to state "endless could easily be making posts like this as mafia"

Eh, I mean his wording was "easy content for any scum to not only make, but hide behind"

Sure, your rewording of the first part makes sense, but then we've got the latter part, which still makes no sense.
that being said, I don't think overanylysing a weird and patently inaccurate sentence like this will ultimately achieve anything, so I just want to hear evan's explanation.

 

[Ace Marvel]

my gut wants to vote for guava but i genuinely have a fear she'll flip town because that is always what happens
the one time i hard defended her as town she flipped scum so i've just accepted by now that my reads are cursed with her. i think endless is putting too much weight on individual aspects of his case against her if that makes sense
like when you look at his case as a whole it looks convincing but when you zoom in on the singular parts of it there's not really much there. i don't think that's necessarily AI for endless i just think the case doesn't mean as much as he thinks it does

i can't see evan as scum but i realise i need to re-evaluate things because i've said that about a lot of people and i have to be wrong somewhere

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

what grates me about guava is that aerious is right it shouldn't come to everyone scumreading her but knowing there's a massive possibility she'll flip town even if her behaviour warrants suspicion/being the lynch

it's a bit of a slap to everyone who actually puts effort into the game. i'm not saying guava doesn't put effort in because she obviously follows the thread closely, and reading everything in itself requires massive effort, but i guess i wish she'd just try harder to actually convince us and reassure us that she's town instead of leaving it to each player's internal guava-mental-struggle by just posting memes as responses to pushes against her

like i genuinely feel like she's been playing scummy but i also know her flip is literally 50/50. if it were another player playing in the same manner i'd be scumreading them like crazy right now

i'm frustrated

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

someone talk 2 me

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

it's going to get to 30 mins before EOD and then become suddenly chaotic again isn't it

Ummm, I dunno know, the fact that Guava seems like LHF, makes me worry that the actual mafia is using that card, and at the same time use Endless as a escape goat if Guava flips town, is this too far fetched, am I thinking too outside the box and I'm just being a victim of mafia theatrics. I'm lost but at this moment I'm comfortable saying I'm town with Glow, Cake, Antonio, Epona, and to some extent Guava.

 

[g u a v a]

uwu if only you all had zero expectations from me besides providing my honest thoughts

 

[Ace Marvel]

This is the must anti Karen thing I will say during the game:

WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER
NOT BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE IT'S TRUE, IT MEANS YOU ARE RIGHT

 

[Endless]

uwu if only you all had zero expectations from me besides providing my honest thoughts

You mentioned earlier that you were trying to "trap" me - does this mean some of your earlier reads re: my direction were made up with no real reasoning? If so, which ones? (I don't need citation, just tell it as best you remember it.)

In the event that you are town, I want you to be able to towntell enough that I, in my stubborn gusto, can discern that fact. (i.e. explain how and why you performed different actions - it doesn't need to be complex, drawn out explanations either. Just single sentence takes, as it were.)
And if this is somewhat tiresome I apologise, but I'm trying my utmost to see things from your perspective.

 

[glow]

like i genuinely feel like she's been playing scummy but i also know her flip is literally 50/50. if it were another player playing in the same manner i'd be scumreading them like crazy right now

i'm frustrated

question

why do you townread evan?

 

[g u a v a]

You mentioned earlier that you were trying to "trap" me - does this mean some of your earlier reads re: my direction were made up with no real reasoning? If so, which ones? (I don't need citation, just tell it as best you remember it.)

In the event that you are town, I want you to be able to towntell enough that I, in my stubborn gusto, can discern that fact. (i.e. explain how and why you performed different actions - it doesn't need to be complex, drawn out explanations either. Just single sentence takes, as it were.)
And if this is somewhat tiresome I apologise, but I'm trying my utmost to see things from your perspective.

i wasn’t really trying to “trap” you per se, but i was trying to get reactions bcos i had nothing to go off tbh. nobody’s really been overtly anything, and everyones been playing this one kinda mild so sorry 4 busting in with the ZEST.

no all my reads on you were legit. i thought you were scummy bcos strategically i would’ve gotten rid of u if i were maf. after some more time and seeing more posts, you’re trying to control the direction of thread in some ways but i’m not sure you’re succding. which is why i felt that it was more probable that the reason you’re here is to be a maf shield, hence what i referenced in my post a little bit ago.

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

i’m trying u guys plz

 

[Ace Marvel]

i wasn’t really trying to “trap” you per se, but i was trying to get reactions bcos i had nothing to go off tbh. nobody’s really been overtly anything, and everyones been playing this one kinda mild so sorry 4 busting in with the ZEST.

no all my reads on you were legit. i thought you were scummy bcos strategically i would’ve gotten rid of u if i were maf. after some more time and seeing more posts, you’re trying to control the direction of thread in some ways but i’m not sure you’re succding. which is why i felt that it was more probable that the reason you’re here is to be a maf shield, hence what i referenced in my post a little bit ago.

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

i’m trying u guys plz

View attachment 306065

I believe in this town queen! Don't go after Guava.

 

[g u a v a]

I believe in this town queen! Don't go after Guava.

ur right lets go after ace!

no but seriously remember early on when ace said something abt being afraid to post and that explaining his lack of activity?

what if the lack of activity is him being really careful to not give anything away?? because i feel like i have seen ace in this game but it doesn’t feel the same.

 

[epona]

question

why do you townread evan?

Kat/glow/Tensu? How compatible is this team? I think kat/glow are a very likely scumpair but not sure how well Tensu meshes with those two. This is just the vibe I'm getting from reading up on everything

Post automatically merged: Aug 16, 2020

I can back this up about glow; that being said, there's more reason to be sus of glow than just "she is different from meta!!!!!!!!!"
[/QUOTE]


one of the reasons glow sussed evan so hard upon his entrance was because he had a scumteam suggestion ready to go despite, by his own admission, not being fully caught up and also despite the fact that the majority of players who had been active from the start of the game were failing to put together concrete scumreads

i do understand the basis of this suspicion, i personally am not going to FoS someone for having reads but i get where glow was coming from, especially because evan hadn't really read the thread up to that point

the thought i had last night was that in a hypothetical situation where evan does flip scum, i figure one of the three names he put forward is likely to be a bus. i've never played with evan before so i don't know if bussing is in his meta but i just feel like it's a lot for 1/3 scumteam to waltz in on d2 after absolutely 0 activity d1 and declare an all-town scumteam read

we know now that kat was town, and i'm hard townreading glow and also don't see all the evan/glow stuff as w/w. glow and ness did fool me last game but i feel like kingmaker is different because your vote/reads don't really make a difference unless you've been kinged so idk if glow would be as openly theatrical here

so basically i think if evan flipped scum tensu is a possible partner but that is based off of exactly nothing except the above lol

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

how did that quote mess up so badly while also deleting my response to glow. i-

 

[glow]

omg ikr i can't actually scumread tensu cos their content is decent (ronishy progression gooood) but their placement in everyone's reads makes them so oddly compatible with everyone

either they're in the nulls or pushed on with no real direction taken to it it's so awkward

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

wait but this didn't rly answer why you initially townread him?

 

[epona]

ADD THIS SECTION TO THE BEGINNING OF MY LAST POST:

question

why do you townread evan?

it's not a strong townread per se, more of a townlean because he's not a scumread if that makes sense

i've just liked his content since he came in and i haven't been pinged by anything
i also don't think the total lack of activity d1 was scummy. being inactive to the point of legitimately risking a modkill isn't a valid scum tactic imo, like to not even post once makes me think he genuinely did just forget about the game and that feels more townie than anything unless he legit just never even read his role PM until d2 (which is possible)

however you did remind me of a thought i had last night:

[insert the last post here]

 

[Ace Marvel]

ur right lets go after ace!

no but seriously remember early on when ace said something abt being afraid to post and that explaining his lack of activity?

what if the lack of activity is him being really careful to not give anything away?? because i feel like i have seen ace in this game but it doesn’t feel the same.

See this is Guava town! And me being careful upupupupupu I'm messy and I know it, but it means a lot coming from the queen of chaos. I've been posting, just that rarely anyone follows my conversations, so it hard to just get into others.

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2020

the no memes and play more good, really destroyed my Karen spirit.

 

[Endless]

i wasn’t really trying to “trap” you per se, but i was trying to get reactions bcos i had nothing to go off tbh. nobody’s really been overtly anything, and everyones been playing this one kinda mild so sorry 4 busting in with the ZEST.

no all my reads on you were legit. i thought you were scummy bcos strategically i would’ve gotten rid of u if i were maf. after some more time and seeing more posts, you’re trying to control the direction of thread in some ways but i’m not sure you’re succding. which is why i felt that it was more probable that the reason you’re here is to be a maf shield, hence what i referenced in my post a little bit ago.

So to clarify, because sometimes I misinterpret things - the primary reason you've been pushing me is that you expected me to die n1, but now you're going more towards the conclusion that I might've been left alive to "draw attention to me when <the person I am lynching> flips town"?

Can you please explain whether mafia making this decision would be on n1 or n2? (I.e. are you suggesting they left me alive to ml you or left me alive to ml on antonio, and if the latter, does that mean you believe antonio is town?)


@epona I fail to see a single point in that post pertinent to why you didn't want an evan lynch - it reads more of an analysis of why glow scumreads evan, and the fact that you can understand that, which would imply that you scumread evan if anything? Regardless post confuses me and I want some follow up.

 

[epona]

teebeetee forum formatting will be the death of me

 

[Endless]

EBWOP: Oh nvm I didn't see your addendum.
Strong disagree that inactivity d1 = towniness, I think it's pretty obvious that he didn't know about the game from his first post - and not knowing about the game is not alignment relevant, it just means he didn't know about the game.
I don't see any universe where he fakes that as mafia, but I also don't think it's remotely AI.

 

[Ace Marvel]

EBWOP: Oh nvm I didn't see your addendum.
Strong disagree that inactivity d1 = towniness, I think it's pretty obvious that he didn't know about the game from his first post - and not knowing about the game is not alignment relevant, it just means he didn't know about the game.
I don't see any universe where he fakes that as mafia, but I also don't think it's remotely AI.

I know I can't compare but in another forum I play, mafia normally uses that excuse, not saying Evan did, but is common.