Guns

[-Apples-]

You make good points about restricting firearms, but you lose all credibility when you say that a baseball is as effective as a gun at mass slaughter...

One is designed for killing things and the other hits a ball a distance away. If you've got a crowd of 50 people running away from someone with a bat, that person would need a moderate fitness level to catch up to some and at the same time, swing the bat with enough force and accuracy to injure someone.

A gun on the other hand is point and squeeze, even if a kill shot isn't landed you still deal a great amount of damage ripping veins and other organs.

I decided not to argue, but the point of the baseball bat massacre scenario is that people will use anything to kill mass crowds if guns are banned. Even guns (well they would already be illegal anyway, but people could get involved in illegal gun smuggling, then use them for bad).

I also want to know why liberals didn't push for gun control after some guy shot at the Republicans in a mass shooting last year, yet do it for the other mass shootings.

 

[That Marshal Fangirl]

Just popping in to express my gratitude for the "I like turtles" option.

 

[Hellfish]

I decided not to argue, but the point of the baseball bat massacre scenario is that people will use anything to kill mass crowds if guns are banned. Even guns (well they would already be illegal anyway, but people could get involved in illegal gun smuggling, then use them for bad).

I also want to know why liberals didn't push for gun control after some guy shot at the Republicans in a mass shooting last year, yet do it for the other mass shootings.

I can understand what your getting at by saying banning guns won't fix anything because people commit crime and slaughter regardless, which is true, it's just kinda silly to use a physical example since humans haven't invented many things that are effective at killing people as guns have (The only other thing that would exceed it would be explosives or biological weapons (ironically they both have restrictions or global bans on them ^-^ (i.e. the materials to make them)))

I'll give you the fine example of a car though, it's a lot easier to kill a crowd with a car then a baseball bat.

Regarding your political issues, I believe it's because either group of people are only in it for themselves, hence the reason why they only push for things when it suits their agenda. I'm not familiar with politics in your country tho...

 

[-Apples-]

(The only other thing that would exceed it would be explosives or biological weapons (ironically they both have restrictions or global bans on them ^-^ (i.e. the materials to make them)))

Not only that, but you'll need the knowledge and ability to make these highly dangerous weapons. Somehow, the ban on the materials didn't stop the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, but this wouldn't happened if the government never got involved in Waco in 1993 or Ruby Ridge in 1992. Honestly, if we want to stop attacks like this, we need to stop hate, and to do that, we need to avoid what fuels hatred.

 

[Hellfish]

Not only that, but you'll need the knowledge and ability to make these highly dangerous weapons. Somehow, the ban on the materials didn't stop the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, but this wouldn't happened if the government never got involved in Waco in 1993 or Ruby Ridge in 1992. Honestly, if we want to stop attacks like this, we need to stop hate, and to do that, we need to avoid what fuels hatred.

Sadly there's no way to stop this, only lessen the likelihood of it happening, which is why I stated in my original post that adding a restriction will by no means stop the issue but it's infinitely times better then doing nothing, which is why I can't understand why Americans don't introduce restrictions...

 

[calamitybot]

Only law-abiding citizens will obey the law. The answer to the "gun issue" in america isnt banning or restricting guns. there needs to be a serious shift in american culture, i think. if healthcare is made more accessible to people, the mentally ill can receive better treatment, limiting the chances of more massacres. if bullying in schools was made a bigger offense, young, impressionable kids wouldnt want to kill their classmates.

though, my opinions are all objectively stupid. i think that all drugs should be legalised, as well as weapons, and that schooling should not be a requirement in any state. basically, i want a complete darwinist society where i can buy nukes and live in an underground bunker

- - - Post Merge - - -

another point: cant get shot if youre the only shooter DDDDDDDDDD

 

[Hellfish]

Only law-abiding citizens will obey the law. The answer to the "gun issue" in america isnt banning or restricting guns. there needs to be a serious shift in american culture, i think. if healthcare is made more accessible to people, the mentally ill can receive better treatment, limiting the chances of more massacres. if bullying in schools was made a bigger offense, young, impressionable kids wouldnt want to kill their classmates.

though, my opinions are all objectively stupid. i think that all drugs should be legalised, as well as weapons, and that schooling should not be a requirement in any state. basically, i want a complete darwinist society where i can buy nukes and live in an underground bunker

- - - Post Merge - - -

another point: cant get shot if youre the only shooter DDDDDDDDDD

It's extremely unrealistic to think that the American culture can be changed. Healthcare would help greatly regardless of whether there were shootings or not so while it's worth raising it's not worth ruling out valid restrictions (to which I've made my point earlier). 1% of Americans are already in prison so I don't think prosecuting children for bullying is a very good solution either.

And your last two comments I'm not taking seriously ^-^

 

[John Wick]

I'ved owned many guns over the years, but mainly for snakes (I love snakes, but some poisonous ones here in AU DO attack) as I lived in a country area for a year.

I ended up selling my guns to a local cop.

These days I reckon we should do away with them.

They say guns don't kill people - PEOPLE kill people.

Really?

Then.. HOW are there any gunshot victims?

 

[vel]

make getting guns harder. there should be a stricter way to get guns, i know quite a few people that own guns that are under 18, and i know people who have gotten permits, and they all say one thing: it is way too easy to obtain a gun. getting a gun should be the equivalent of a woman trying to get an abortion. it should not be easy, and it should be a privilege. i don't think guns should be banned, guns aren't the problem; the people wielding them are.

- - - Post Merge - - -

baseball bat massacre scenario

since when has a baseball bat murdered a room full of people in a matter of seconds.

 

[calamitybot]

And your last two comments I'm not taking seriously ^-^

you absolute fool. you imbecile. i am being completely serious

- - - Post Merge - - -

B]getting a gun should be the equivalent of a woman trying to get an abortion.[/B] it should not be easy, and it should be a privilege. i don't think guns should be banned, guns aren't the problem; the people wielding them are.

good opinion.

 

[Diancie]

I've been reading through a lot of the points made on this thread. Coincidentally, I just had a conversation with my dad about this before clicking the post.

As Hellfish stated, do we have to wait until there is a "shift" in American culture? Throughout the time we try to "change" the culture there will be more and more shootings.

And to those who say that it's not the guns which are the problem: The only way to decrease the amount of shootings right now is to ban guns. Guns were banned in the UK in 1996 after their first and last school shooting occurred, and only one mass shooting has occurred since then (yet 273 mass shootings occurred in the USA in just 2017).

I am not trying to say that the crime rate will immensely go down because of course it won't. I still see headlines of people ramming their cars just to kill people in the UK. However, the least it will do is reduce the amount of people being killed.

 

[Barbara]

Ban all guns. I don't even know where you Americans got the idea to allow it to the common people.

 

[-Apples-]

since when has a baseball bat murdered a room full of people in a matter of seconds.

Never happened. But to be honest, I made that claim to defend guns from total ban when arguing with a left-winger.

The issue of gun control keeps getting pushed when a public shooting happens, but the issue goes deeper than that. Whether guns are banned or not, large scale attacks are still gonna happen. Maybe not with baseball bats, knives, or stones, but attacks can still happen. Gun control is not the answer.

 

[tiffanistarr]

I hate guns but I really do like turtles too.

On a more serious note, I could live happily in a country where guns are just not an accessible thing. And that's coming from someone who's grown up around them, owned them, and fired them.

I think people in my country (the US) have it way too easy when it comes to buying and getting firearms. It's absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. I think if you want to own a firearm you should go through great lengths to own one similar to a drivers license, but much MUCH harder. I think there should be classes and tests you have to take. I also think you should be heavily vetted and evaluated and then the moment you slip up(any unlawful violence or signs of mental instability) your gun is taken away from you.

I think it's absolutely stupid to own any sort of automatic weaponry. I think assault rifles should be banned because there is simply not a need for them.

I also think if they want to solve a lot of gun issues in this country they need to also bring attention to the gun sales that take place on different markets and in the streets.

I also think it's demeaning and horrific that the government and the nra put an outdated (imo) amendment before the lives of children and other innocent people. The government and the nra simply don't care about how many lives are lost and how many people are affected by the on-going and constant tragedies at the result of a gun. Most of these shooters legally obtain their guns, why are they allowed to have access to such things? Guns are a HUGE problem, but mental health is just as much an issue that needs to be taken way more serious.

I could rant for hours and hours on this topic alone.

Anyways that's just my two cents ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ellarella]

i come from a country where guns are banned, and i can highly recommend it

 

[Akira-chan]

Ban all guns? : no.
Ban guns that are capable of killing multiple people with little effort?: Yes

i see no need for any sane human person in the us to even own one. why would anyone need or want something like this. people claim we need guns for self defense, which is perfectly ok. What i dont understand is why we sell automatic ****ing weapons. Its sick. we dont need them. We dont need that powerful of a weapon in the hands of anyone in the US. keep weapons of war out of our country imo.

 

[0019293893]

My personal opinion:

Guns will never go away in the US. Repealing the 2nd amendment would actually cause a civil war, I guarantee it.

I believe there are a few policies that, if put in law, it'll GREATLY help reduce gun deaths.

1) Make education/school better. That's right. Our education is bad. School environments are bad. If you look at disturbed school shooters, they often are bullied and don't do well in school. We need better schooling, better teachers, and healthier school environments. PUT MORE MONEY INTO EDUCATION.
2) PUT MORE MONEY INTO HEALTHCARE AND FIX OUR HEALTHCARE SITUATION. The kinds of people who become mass shooters are mentally ill. They need help. If you look at the state of healthcare in the US, it's a horribly sorry state. I believe if we make it so the poor and mentally ill can easily get help, no matter their financial state, we can get help for the kinds of people who would normally become school shooters.
3) MAKE IT HARDER TO OWN GUNS, BUT DON'T PUNISH THOSE WHO QUALIFY. Make background checks take longer. Punish people who sell guns illegally at gun shows. Require mental health checks for gun owners. Those who DO qualify, however, shouldn't be punished. If you show that you know how to handle a gun, and you are trustworthy with one, and pass background checks etc, you should be able to have a big ol' shotgun or a machine gun.

Unfortunately, seeing how broken and corrupt our system is, I don't think the healthcare problem or the education problem will be solved soon. People care too much about the money in their pockets, and about putting money into the military instead of putting money into education.

 

[tiffanistarr]

My personal opinion:

Guns will never go away in the US. Repealing the 2nd amendment would actually cause a civil war, I guarantee it.

I believe there are a few policies that, if put in law, it'll GREATLY help reduce gun deaths.

1) Make education/school better. That's right. Our education is bad. School environments are bad. If you look at disturbed school shooters, they often are bullied and don't do well in school. We need better schooling, better teachers, and healthier school environments. PUT MORE MONEY INTO EDUCATION.
2) PUT MORE MONEY INTO HEALTHCARE AND FIX OUR HEALTHCARE SITUATION. The kinds of people who become mass shooters are mentally ill. They need help. If you look at the state of healthcare in the US, it's a horribly sorry state. I believe if we make it so the poor and mentally ill can easily get help, no matter their financial state, we can get help for the kinds of people who would normally become school shooters.
3) MAKE IT HARDER TO OWN GUNS, BUT DON'T PUNISH THOSE WHO QUALIFY. Make background checks take longer. Punish people who sell guns illegally at gun shows. Require mental health checks for gun owners. Those who DO qualify, however, shouldn't be punished. If you show that you know how to handle a gun, and you are trustworthy with one, and pass background checks etc, you should be able to have a big ol' shotgun or a machine gun.

Unfortunately, seeing how broken and corrupt our system is, I don't think the healthcare problem or the education problem will be solved soon. People care too much about the money in their pockets, and about putting money into the military instead of putting money into education.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!

I'm always the odd one out when I bring up how these mass/school shooters are disturbed and need help. It pains to me see someone like Nikolas Cruz who seems to be a smart and good looking kid who could have had such a bright future, but his illness led him to acting in such horrific ways.

And I am in NO WAY saying he shouldn't pay the price for what he's done - he absolutely should, but when I see all these reports on how so many damn officials knew his mental state and knew that he tried killing himself before.... You just know all those times were pleads and and screams for help, but the state failed him just as much as the state failed the kids and teachers who lost their lives due to the shooting in general. I can't imagine being so depressed and so angry to want to kill that many people and it's such a shame that nobody intervened and gave him the help he deserved when he was begging and pleading for it through his actions.

 

[Hellfish]

My personal opinion:

Guns will never go away in the US. Repealing the 2nd amendment would actually cause a civil war, I guarantee it.

I believe there are a few policies that, if put in law, it'll GREATLY help reduce gun deaths.

1) Make education/school better. That's right. Our education is bad. School environments are bad. If you look at disturbed school shooters, they often are bullied and don't do well in school. We need better schooling, better teachers, and healthier school environments. PUT MORE MONEY INTO EDUCATION.
2) PUT MORE MONEY INTO HEALTHCARE AND FIX OUR HEALTHCARE SITUATION. The kinds of people who become mass shooters are mentally ill. They need help. If you look at the state of healthcare in the US, it's a horribly sorry state. I believe if we make it so the poor and mentally ill can easily get help, no matter their financial state, we can get help for the kinds of people who would normally become school shooters.
3) MAKE IT HARDER TO OWN GUNS, BUT DON'T PUNISH THOSE WHO QUALIFY. Make background checks take longer. Punish people who sell guns illegally at gun shows. Require mental health checks for gun owners. Those who DO qualify, however, shouldn't be punished. If you show that you know how to handle a gun, and you are trustworthy with one, and pass background checks etc, you should be able to have a big ol' shotgun or a machine gun.

Unfortunately, seeing how broken and corrupt our system is, I don't think the healthcare problem or the education problem will be solved soon. People care too much about the money in their pockets, and about putting money into the military instead of putting money into education.

Completely agree with everything you said

 

[0019293893]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!

I'm always the odd one out when I bring up how these mass/school shooters are disturbed and need help. It pains to me see someone like Nikolas Cruz who seems to be a smart and good looking kid who could have had such a bright future, but his illness led him to acting in such horrific ways.

And I am in NO WAY saying he shouldn't pay the price for what he's done - he absolutely should, but when I see all these reports on how so many damn officials knew his mental state and knew that he tried killing himself before.... You just know all those times were pleads and and screams for help, but the state failed him just as much as the state failed the kids and teachers who lost their lives due to the shooting in general. I can't imagine being so depressed and so angry to want to kill that many people and it's such a shame that nobody intervened and gave him the help he deserved when he was begging and pleading for it through his actions.

It annoys me that government officials blame video games. With or without video games, they would commit the crimes. Well adjusted people play GTA too. It’s their life circumstances, not the games.