Healthcare

[Relly]

My taxes go towards healthcare and I'm happy with that situation I don't think the USA will ever have universal healthcare and if that's how they like it then that's fine

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Also its a bit different to me, like I can understand what you are saying for you guys taxes would change and I can see why that would upset people. For me I've always paid NI since I started working and Me and my parents and my grand parents have never known any different than to pay NI. So I can respect where you are coming from.

 

[forestyne]

The problem is, there is no such thing as free healthcare. To pass something like this, we have to raise taxes, not just the cost of living, but also taxes on the money you make. Regardless of intentions, it's a bad idea to take money away from those who work hard for it (unless if they're using it to spend on property, merchandise, or whatever, but if they're not spending on anything by choice, you shouldn't charge them for what they make) and give it to those who don't work (especially if they don't want to work). Some people don't have to pay for their own healthcare, but that means somebody else (who's not even related) will have to pay for their healthcare. If you villify people who are against free healthcare, then you have a problem.

And no, I'm not saying that you are villifying people for opposing free healthcare, but you find it mentally strange.

We've had free healthcare for decades and we're doing just fine.

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A rich old geezer shouldn't be entitled to choose who lives and who dies because he doesn't want his taxes to pay for a dying child's healthcare.

Millions of people are happy for their taxes to go towards the healthcare of someone who needs it.

 

[-Apples-]

My taxes go towards healthcare and I'm happy with that situation I don't think the USA will ever have universal healthcare and if that's how they like it then that's fine

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Also its a bit different to me, like I can understand what you are saying for you guys taxes would change and I can see why that would upset people. For me I've always paid NI since I started working and Me and my parents and my grand parents have never known any different than to pay NI. So I can respect where you are coming from.

Yep, I'm more about freedom of choice, responsibility, and less interference with government. I would never oppose free healthcare for the reason being that only some people should survive. I don't want the poor to be sick either. But they have to realize that no system is perfect, top reason being human nature. Socialized medicine may eventually fail like communism had, but capitalism ain't perfect either.

 

[phietle]

I'm british, so because of our NHS, never had to pay for healthcare in my life! I'm so greatful, I'm type 1 diabetic and have been since i was 3, so if my family had to pay we'd be bankrupt

 

[visibleghost]

Everyone should have free healthcare. But, I believe that it could only work if it were only for certain people.

So, if you're close to death because you decided to do something stupid like drive drunk or take an overdose or anything self-inflicted, you would have to pay. A small amount, perhaps, but you'd have to pay.

I think it should all depend on the person. That way they can save money, and only the people who really need help will get free help.

do you understand that you're basically saying "if youre mentally ill **** you" bc, like.. youre kinda doing that

people can choose a lot of things but just because they made a bad decision doesnt mean that society should abandon them and be like "lol u only have urself 2 blame!!" .
like, this is honestly one of the worst suggestions i've heard lmao it targets people who are already a bit outside society and in need of help. should we be like "nah you fell out of that tree because you were clumsy so you deserve to have a broken arm lol" or is that okay because it's an arm that's broken and not a mind?
sure drunk driving is not okay and people shouldn't do it but people deserve to have access to healthcare no matter how they got injured.

I don't have insurance at the moment, but I do not believe free healthcare should exist. You simply aren't entitled to someone else's time and services, even if it benefits you. Someone provides that service and should be paid by the person they're providing the service to, not by everyone via taxation. I'm not responsible for anyone but myself and any children I bring into this world (or any people I choose to take responsibility for).

Another reason I'm against free healthcare is that it gives the government even more control over your life. When the government ensures that you have health insurance, they also get to dictate which healthcare providers you can visit, what medications you can take, etc. Additionally when the government subsidizes healthcare, it guarantees healthcare providers essentially as much money as they want. They're paid in tax dollars no matter what, meaning they're free to raise their prices, whereas in the free market, healthcare providers have to keep their prices affordable or they risk losing out to competitors. The same can be said for the government subsidizing higher education.

Maybe it's just me, but I think you should WORK for the things you want in life, rather than expecting handouts from everyone around you. Call me old fashioned.

it's not being "entitled to someone else's time and services" lmao people deserve to live and the government has to make things like healthcare and education available to everyone. free healthcare doesnt mean "lol we're going 2 make doctors into slaves" it just means that everyone gets their basic human rights.
and what you're saying w them getting paid from who theyre providing the service to ok do you think the fire department should charge you when they put out a fire that burnt down your house and do you think teachers should get paid directly from the kids lmao

the "im only responsible 4 myself n my kids" thinking is so stupid because of 50 million reasons but that's kind of off topic so dhjhgf

people shoulf have their human rights no matter what. doesnt matter if they work for them or not. w a more socialist society and government you help everyone, including urself. people who cant afford healthcare still deserve it and if youre so angry about paying for someone elses healthcare the That's Too Bad :// but people still deserve their human rights. n the only thing u need to do in order to have those rights is to be a human

 

[Soda Fox]

do you understand that you're basically saying "if youre mentally ill **** you" bc, like.. youre kinda doing that

people can choose a lot of things but just because they made a bad decision doesnt mean that society should abandon them and be like "lol u only have urself 2 blame!!" .
like, this is honestly one of the worst suggestions i've heard lmao it targets people who are already a bit outside society and in need of help. should we be like "nah you fell out of that tree because you were clumsy so you deserve to have a broken arm lol" or is that okay because it's an arm that's broken and not a mind?
sure drunk driving is not okay and people shouldn't do it but people deserve to have access to healthcare no matter how they got injured.




it's not being "entitled to someone else's time and services" lmao people deserve to live and the government has to make things like healthcare and education available to everyone. free healthcare doesnt mean "lol we're going 2 make doctors into slaves" it just means that everyone gets their basic human rights.
and what you're saying w them getting paid from who theyre providing the service to ok do you think the fire department should charge you when they put out a fire that burnt down your house and do you think teachers should get paid directly from the kids lmao

the "im only responsible 4 myself n my kids" thinking is so stupid because of 50 million reasons but that's kind of off topic so dhjhgf

people shoulf have their human rights no matter what. doesnt matter if they work for them or not. w a more socialist society and government you help everyone, including urself. people who cant afford healthcare still deserve it and if youre so angry about paying for someone elses healthcare the That's Too Bad :// but people still deserve their human rights. n the only thing u need to do in order to have those rights is to be a human

Humans have basic rights because other humans got together and decided what those rights should be. If a group of people disagree we converse and make compromises and sometimes those compromises will make some people angry. But other than the rights we give ourselves due to group decisions, we aren't entitled to squat. Nature/the universe doesn't care a lick about what happens to any of us.

 

[Relly]

I agree rights are made by people, born out of humanity.

 

[visibleghost]

Humans have basic rights because other humans got together and decided what those rights should be. If a group of people disagree we converse and make compromises and sometimes those compromises will make some people angry. But other than the rights we give ourselves due to group decisions, we aren't entitled to squat. Nature/the universe doesn't care a lick about what happens to any of us.

-_- good luck doing everything all by urself let's start w u movinh out into the middle of nowhere, building a house and hunting/foraging/growing ur own food, i mean, u cant rely on other people and society is Dumb right?

ibviously human rights arent a law written by nature itself that's not what i have been saying but, like, are you seriously questioning that everyone should have their basic human rights? like??? are u for Real

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I agree rights are made by people, born out of humanity.

yeah and laws are too so i guess it is okay to murder people and steal their stuff ?\_(ツ)_/?

 

[Soda Fox]

-_- good luck doing everything all by urself let's start w u movinh out into the middle of nowhere, building a house and hunting/foraging/growing ur own food, i mean, u cant rely on other people and society is Dumb right?

ibviously human rights arent a law written by nature itself that's not what i have been saying but, like, are you seriously questioning that everyone should have their basic human rights? like??? are u for Real

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't but I'm arguing why other points of view hold just as much weight to me.

Honestly I wouldn't mind going off the grid. I think it would be fun. And I think people should have the choice to do so if they want to. My problem with socialized everything is that it makes it harder and harder too go off the grid. I just think people should have a choice and not forced to conform because someone else told them that it's the right thing to do.

 

[Relly]

yeah and laws are too so i guess it is okay to murder people and steal their stuff ?\_(ツ)_/?

You got me all wrong. I'm a very big believer in human rights and humanity. I consider myself a humanitarian.

 

[visibleghost]

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't but I'm arguing why other points of view hold just as much weight to me.

Honestly I wouldn't mind going off the grid. I think it would be fun. And I think people should have the choice to do so if they want to. My problem with socialized everything is that it makes it harder and harder too go off the grid. I just think people should have a choice and not forced to conform because someone else told them that it's the right thing to do.

with paid healthcare: living ur life w a whole lot of possibilities that arent affected by getting affordable healthcare, but u dont have to declare bankruptcy if u get sick or break a leg or w/e
without paid healthcare: living ur life w a whole lot of possibilities but if you get sick well too bad, Die.

it doesnt affect your ability to "go off the grid" more than other things, youre just reaching. or do u think we need to destroy the government and burn down everything that makes it hard to get "off the grid"
the internet is also a big issue then !! how will u ever b able to live ur life in peace when your posts on this forum will haunt u when ure trying to harvest ur potatoes because Frick Society amirite

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You got me all wrong. I'm a very big believer in human rights and humanity. I consider myself a humanitarian.

cool but why does it matter if human rights are made by humans? there's nothing political or w/e with it, it is just "hey i think all people should have a good chance to live an ok life, these things are important"

 

[Relly]

cool but why does it matter if human rights are made by humans? there's nothing political or w/e with it, it is just "hey i think all people should have a good chance to live an ok life, these things are important"

Personally I do not think it does matter if they are natural or human made, I was trying to make the point that rights are to do with having humanity and decency rather than make the point that they are made by people. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Miii]

it's not being "entitled to someone else's time and services" lmao people deserve to live and the government has to make things like healthcare and education available to everyone. free healthcare doesnt mean "lol we're going 2 make doctors into slaves" it just means that everyone gets their basic human rights.
and what you're saying w them getting paid from who theyre providing the service to ok do you think the fire department should charge you when they put out a fire that burnt down your house and do you think teachers should get paid directly from the kids lmao

the "im only responsible 4 myself n my kids" thinking is so stupid because of 50 million reasons but that's kind of off topic so dhjhgf

people shoulf have their human rights no matter what. doesnt matter if they work for them or not. w a more socialist society and government you help everyone, including urself. people who cant afford healthcare still deserve it and if youre so angry about paying for someone elses healthcare the That's Too Bad :// but people still deserve their human rights. n the only thing u need to do in order to have those rights is to be a human

Expecting for everyone around you to pay for part of your medical bills, rather than being responsible and doing it yourself, is being entitled. If you can't afford to take care of yourself, then you aren't working hard enough, plain and simple. If you're permanently poor, it's no one's fault but your own, unless you're disabled and incapable of working, in which case, I understand, but there are disability benefits for people like that in my country, and that, I am okay with funding via taxation because there's a legitimate reason to. No able bodied, mentally competent individual is incapable of making enough to afford health insurance (in America at least).

I don't think you read why I'm against a socialist healthcare system. I don't like the idea of the government creeping it's way into every aspect of my life, because when it's in their power to be the sole provider of something, it's also in their power to completely take it away. I'm for personal accountability and "free" things take all personal accountability away from the individual. You should strive to take care of and provide for yourself, rather than expecting anyone else to do it for you, and there's a sense of pride and independence that comes with doing that. If you want to help others, too, great; donate to a reputable charity that, again, is held accountable by the donors providing their funds. When the government forces you to pay for healthcare, you have little to no say in where your money goes, or to whom, and it doesn't matter if you like the results you see. You don't need government intervention to help people.

Taking care of yourself and your family first isn't a stupid mentality (from an evolutionary standpoint, it makes total sense to take care of your family and your children, rather than taking from them to help others because it ensures that your genes are passed on, but that's not the point I'm getting at). I'd rather have extra money in my pocket to take care of the people I choose to take care of because I can personally ensure that my money goes towards actually helping someone, rather than paying someone to file paperwork that may not even lead to helping someone. I'd love to hear your 50 million reasons why it's stupid to use your money that you put hours of your life into earning to take care of the ones you love. If you think it's too off topic for this thread, then pm me. I'm willing to have a serious conversation with you.

 

[Relly]

"I agree rights are made by people, born out of humanity." - that was me trying and failing to point out that human rights are a humanitarian issue. My bad.

 

[forestyne]

Expecting for everyone around you to pay for part of your medical bills, rather than being responsible and doing it yourself, is being entitled. If you can't afford to take care of yourself, then you aren't working hard enough, plain and simple. If you're permanently poor, it's no one's fault but your own, unless you're disabled and incapable of working, in which case, I understand, but there are disability benefits for people like that in my country, and that, I am okay with funding via taxation because there's a legitimate reason to. No able bodied, mentally competent individual is incapable of making enough to afford health insurance (in America at least).

I don't think you read why I'm against a socialist healthcare system. I don't like the idea of the government creeping it's way into every aspect of my life, because when it's in their power to be the sole provider of something, it's also in their power to completely take it away. I'm for personal accountability and "free" things take all personal accountability away from the individual. You should strive to take care of and provide for yourself, rather than expecting anyone else to do it for you, and there's a sense of pride and independence that comes with doing that. If you want to help others, too, great; donate to a reputable charity that, again, is held accountable by the donors providing their funds. When the government forces you to pay for healthcare, you have little to no say in where your money goes, or to whom, and it doesn't matter if you like the results you see. You don't need government intervention to help people.

Taking care of yourself and your family first isn't a stupid mentality (from an evolutionary standpoint, it makes total sense to take care of your family and your children, rather than taking from them to help others because it ensures that your genes are passed on, but that's not the point I'm getting at). I'd rather have extra money in my pocket to take care of the people I choose to take care of because I can personally ensure that my money goes towards actually helping someone, rather than paying someone to file paperwork that may not even lead to helping someone. I'd love to hear your 50 million reasons why it's stupid to use your money that you put hours of your life into earning to take care of the ones you love. If you think it's too off topic for this thread, then pm me. I'm willing to have a serious conversation with you.

But the thing is that we don't 'choose' to be poor. It wasn't me and my dad's fault that we were scammed into PPI, a ****ty house that my dad can barely afford to SELL as well as keep up with the mordage and bills, and that my mum ran off with my siblings and all of my dad's money. Seems very offensive to say that because we and many other people like me are barely surviving, we don't mean **** to you or the States, because it was all our fault.

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Sorry that I can't help but roll my eyes, twitch and gag when I read that, but I have nearly died multiple times and I am extremely thankful for the people who have no problem with their taxes going towards the healthcare of people like me.

 

[Relly]

I work as a support worker and earn minimum wage, I can't afford health insurance. But my job is incredibly hard, I've been bitten pinched punched, dragged to the floor by my hair and beaten to within an inch of my life. I can't afford nor do I have time to train for anything else now and no where pays a much better wage.

I pay national insurance and that is what gets my health care.

 

[Miii]

But the thing is that we don't 'choose' to be poor. It wasn't me and my dad's fault that we were scammed into PPI, a ****ty house that my dad can barely afford to SELL as well as keep up with the mordage and bills, and that my mum ran off with my siblings and all of my dad's money. Seems very offensive to say that because we and many other people like me are barely surviving, we don't mean **** to you or the States, because it was all our fault.

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Sorry that I can't help but roll my eyes, twitch and gag when I read that, but I have nearly died multiple times and I am extremely thankful for the people who have no problem with their taxes going towards the healthcare of people like me.

What, do you think I grew up rich? No, I grew up quite like you, maybe even in worse conditions. I lived in a ****ty, run down, roach infested house as a child that the state of Oklahoma built on an old landfill without telling anyone (not just my house, my whole neighborhood). I got a terrible fungal infection on my scalp and other parts of my body just from playing outside. It wasn't until my grandmother threatened to take my two brothers and I away from my mom that we moved to Texas where she lived. I had a nice life living with her for a few years, then we moved and, once again, I didn't have enough food in the house, bills went unpaid and I went without a lot of things like new clothes, new shoes, school supplies, hot water and medical care.

Why was I so poor? Because my parents were highschool dropouts that chose to do meth and get ****faced every night instead of taking care of me or working someplace other than a fast food joint. My dad eventually (kind of) got his **** together and became an aircraft mechanic, but still got so drunk almost every night that he hospitalized himself after vomiting blood from all the ulcers that constantly drinking had formed in his esophagus and stomach.

Now, I don't know you, and I don't know where exactly your parents went wrong, but you're in the situation you're in for a reason. You're just their kid so I'm not blaming you or saying you're ****. But if, for example, my boyfriend's dad can go from being a homeless 15 year old living in his truck and having to bathe in gas station bathrooms to being a self taught genius of a programmer making more than $200,000 a year and living in a 6 bedroom house, then your parents, like mine, could have tried harder and avoided the hardship and poverty they brought upon themselves. That's not easy to hear when it comes to the people you love, but the truth isn't usually easy to swallow.

The point of that mess is that you get from life what you put into it, and no matter where you start out, there's always a way up with enough hard work and dedication. That being said, you should work hard and be responsible for yourself so you can give yourself a good life, rather than relying on others. You're capable. Your parents are capable. Work hard and you won't live the life you're living for very much longer.

 

[Soot Sprite]

The point of that mess is that you get from life what you put into it, and no matter where you start out, there's always a way up with enough hard work and dedication. That being said, you should work hard and be responsible for yourself so you can give yourself a good life, rather than relying on others. You're capable. Your parents are capable. Work hard and you won't live the life you're living for very much longer.

I don't really mean to interrupt what I see as a two person conversation as of right now but this is totally true. I'm not gonna tell you my life story but I've been taking care of myself for many years (I'll be 19 soon now) and I can say very certainly everyone is capable of changing. I went from living in a nasty apartment with six other people to renting one of my own with the person I'm engaged too. I work at a job I enjoy for the most part and I just finished my first degree. Being responsible and actually putting effort into making changes makes all the difference. No as a child you don't choose to be poor, but it's something you have to deal with. But you have absolutely no excuse to complain about being poor when you're an adult if you're not trying. An adult needs to be taking care of themselves and I don't think everyone should just be given health care. I know how much it sucks without but I'm also working my ass off to get it back. No I don't want to pay more taxes to give everyone free healthcare even though I think everyone deserves it. I'm sure everyone feels like they deserve better than they get sometimes but you get what you work for. If you don't put in effort you don't get rewarded. If you're disabled in some way that's one thing, but if you can take care of yourself you need to. If you're having children, you need to be able to provide the best you can for them, plain and simple. Depending on the government only gives it more power than they already have.

 

[moonbunny]

I can't think of anything better than some of my money going towards those in need.

?\_(ツ)_/?

 

[Stalfos]

I can't think of anything better than some of my money going towards those in need.

?\_(ツ)_/?

Solidarity is a beautiful thing.