How many male/female users are a part of this community?

[Rory&Easton]

what if your neither...

 

[Sergi]

Yas females represent! I'm a guy, but still!

 

[Garrett]

Male. I don't mind which gender I play AC with as long as they don't run or steal.

 

[Primarina]

what if your neither...

Everyone is either male or female biologically (even intersex people are either male or female biologically, they just have a medical condition).

 

[amanda1983]

Everyone is either male or female biologically (even intersex people are either male or female biologically, they just have a medical condition).

That's actually not true, scientifically speaking. Biological sex is determined by a complex process that does not always result in a an individual being born with either female or male physical sexual characteristics. Genetics are much too complicated for such simple categorisation!

Biology aside, "gender" is a social construct. Biological sex does not always equal gender, and vice versa.

http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

 

[Primarina]

Respectfully, the notion that "gender is a social construct" is essentially a political statement, not a scientific one. It is highly debatable, and again, intersex people have a medical condition/birth defect, they don't disprove the existence of two distinct biological sexes, and in fact specific intersex conditions occur in one or the other sex. For example, Turner syndrome and Triple X syndrome occur only in females, and Klinefelter syndrome and XYY syndrome occur only in males. This is because the Y chromosome (or lack thereof) is what ultimately determines biological sex, and no matter the combination of chromosomes, if a Y is present, the person is male, and if it is absent, the person is female.

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P.S. While the WHO is a great source of info for politically neutral medical subjects, they're not immune to politicization on this issue, either.

 

[jcamac45]

That's actually not true, scientifically speaking. Biological sex is determined by a complex process that does not always result in a an individual being born with either female or male physical sexual characteristics. Genetics are much too complicated for such simple categorisation!

Biology aside, "gender" is a social construct. Biological sex does not always equal gender, and vice versa.

http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

The article you posted actually goes more on the side of what Primarina mentions (I am not saying she is entirely correct on what she says, as you will see in my response to her post lol). I refer to the part of sex; you are either born male or female. That is biology. In terms of gender, as you mentioned, it is a social construct. That is where transgenders come into play. My ex-girlfriend is now a man. I actually supported his transition by paying the surgery to remove his breast. He still has a vagina and still likes both sexes (he is bisexual). Biologically speaking, he is female, but under the law he is a man, becaue that is what he considers himself. If you see him, you wouldn't be able to tell his sex. In fact, people think he is a gay guy lol. We are still learning more about these things, and I think is really important to continue studies about the human brain in order to create better and fairer laws for all.

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Respectfully, the notion that "gender is a social construct" is essentially a political statement, not a scientific one. It is highly debatable, and again, intersex people have a medical condition/birth defect, they don't disprove the existence of two distinct biological sexes, and in fact specific intersex conditions occur in one or the other sex. For example, Turner syndrome and Triple X syndrome occur only in females, and Klinefelter syndrome and XYY syndrome occur only in males. This is because the Y chromosome (or lack thereof) is what ultimately determines biological sex, and no matter the combination of chromosomes, if a Y is present, the person is male, and if it is absent, the person is female.

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P.S. While the WHO is a great source of info for politically neutral medical subjects, they're not immune to politicization on this issue, either.

The WHO is a very respectable source... It does not follow a political agenda since it is a global organization with offices in over 150 countries (it's international). The headquarters are actually located in Geneva... so it is relatively hard for WHO to be politicized, especially when there are scientific research from different parts of the globe backing this organization. I am not saying it is perfect... because science is not perfect. But it is the best thing we have and we can rely on. Nothing else is better than the scientific method. Having said that, to simply say the WHO is wrong on this issue because of "politicization" is wrong. Especially if you read the scientific papers (which are reviewed btw!) that WHO references.

PS. Gender is a social construct. In current scientific knowledge, we still need to develop more research about the human brain to bring about more evidence about gender. But here is the thing. What if you were to receive a surgical operation to remove your sexual organs? Would that remove your status as a female/male? NO! That is why gender is not necessarily a "political statement." Without your sexual organs, you would still consider yourself a gender.

PS. Primarina Everything you've said on regards sex is stated on the WHO article amanda1983 posted. So I don't see why you are saying the WHO is wrong on this side. That amanda1983 misunderstood the WHO article is a very different subject.

 

[Primarina]

The WHO is a very respectable source... It does not follow a political agenda since it is a global organization with offices in over 150 countries (it's international). The headquarters are actually located in Geneva... so it is relatively hard for WHO to be politicized, especially when there are scientific research from different parts of the globe backing this organization. I am not saying it is perfect... because science is not perfect. But it is the best thing we have and we can rely on. Nothing else is better than the scientific method. Having said that, to simply say the WHO is wrong on this issue because of "politicization" is wrong. Especially if you read the scientific papers (which are reviewed btw!) that WHO references.

PS. Gender is a social construct. In current scientific knowledge, we still need to develop more research about the human brain to bring about more evidence about gender. But here is the thing. What if you were to receive a surgical operation to remove your sexual organs? Would that remove your status as a female/male? NO! That is why gender is not necessarily a "political statement." Without your sexual organs, you would still consider yourself a gender.

PS. Primarina Everything you've said on regards sex is stated on the WHO article amanda1983 posted. So I don't see why you are saying the WHO is wrong on this side. That amanda1983 misunderstood the WHO article is a very different subject.

First of all, I'm actually male (and it is awfully ironic that you assumed I was female). Secondly, the idea that because an organization is international that makes it immune to politicization is absurd (just look at the UN and their extreme criticisms of Israel and simultaneous allowances for human rights violations in countries like Saudi Arabia and China as an example). Also, I prefaced what I said by saying that the WHO is a great organization for most things, but not necessarily so for such a politically charged and frankly under-researched issue as this.

Gender is not a social construct. Chromosomes are real.

I'm all for more research in this area, however, and I'm 100% pro-science (unlike the transgender lobby which tells us that men are women and women are men). Also, I never said gender is a political statement, it is a scientific reality. I also never said removing a person's genitalia makes them no longer male or female (that is however, essentially what the transgender lobby argues). Chromosomes are what determines one's sex, not their feelings. And without my genitals I would still consider myself a male, which is what I am because I have a Y chromosome.

And if you think the WHO article is on my side, then good for them, but I doubt they're fully on my side because of how politically clouded this issue is at the moment.

 

[jcamac45]

First of all, I'm actually male (and it is awfully ironic that you assumed I was female). Secondly, the idea that because an organization is international that makes it immune to politicization is absurd (just look at the UN and their extreme criticisms of Israel and simultaneous allowances for human rights violations in countries like Saudi Arabia and China as an example). Also, I prefaced what I said by saying that the WHO is a great organization for most things, but not necessarily so for such a politically charged and frankly under-researched issue as this.

Gender is not a social construct. Chromosomes are real.

I'm all for more research in this area, however, and I'm 100% pro-science (unlike the transgender lobby which tells us that men are women and women are men). Also, I never said gender is a political statement, it is a scientific reality. I also never said removing a person's genitalia makes them no longer male or female (that is however, essentially what the transgender lobby argues). Chromosomes are what determines one's sex, not their feelings. And without my genitals I would still consider myself a male, which is what I am because I have a Y chromosome.

And if you think the WHO article is on my side, then good for them, but I doubt they're fully on my side because of how politically clouded this issue is at the moment.

Well your username is Primarina, so I assumed. We are all in a website and the only things I have to determine someone's sex is by the username... and if I do more research on your posts, on how you refer to yourself, so I apologize for that.

You are comparing the UN with the WHO... Sure they are both international organizations, but like I said in my previous post (and I quote) "[...]it is relatively hard for WHO to be politicized, especially when there are scientific research from different parts of the globe backing this organization. I am not saying it is perfect[...]" (end of quote). Like I said, the WHO could be subject of political statements, but like I said, it is really hard because they have to back it up with scientific research.. which the article has. Now compare the scientific articles they referenced to write the article and compare the UN's decisions to violate human rights, well now you see the difference?

Gender and sex are not the same thing.

Sex is what you refer to the chromosomes. They are real. I am a cell and molecular biochemist. DNA is real.
Gender however, is a social construct.

And you are saying it in your later paragraph, even. "Chromosomes are what determines one's sex, not their feelings."
Gender is what determines the feelings. GENDER IS NOT SEX.

Well why should you rely on my opinion that WHO article is on your side?
I actually encourage you to read the article yourself. And while you are at it, read the scientific papers they reference. If you claim to be on the pro-science, then you should especially read the scientific papers the WHO references and not only limit yourself to the article the WHO writes.

 

[Rory&Easton]

wow thats interesting. I feel like you guys are on another subject than I am though.. oh well it doesn't matter.

 

[Primarina]

Gender and sex are literally synonyms. They're the same thing. Get over it.

 

[peachesand]

I haven't gotten a chance to play with many strangers, I've played Animal Crossing with two of my male WoW friends for awhile and it was pretty fun! So I don't know which I prefer to play with, but I am inclined to think it won't matter.

 

[blackroserandom]

There's a lot more females than I thought. o-o
Nah it doesn't really matter what you are, it's just a simple poll

 

[amanda1983]

The article you posted actually goes more on the side of what Primarina mentions (I am not saying she is entirely correct on what she says, as you will see in my response to her post lol). I refer to the part of sex; you are either born male or female. That is biology. In terms of gender, as you mentioned, it is a social construct. That is where transgenders come into play. My ex-girlfriend is now a man. I actually supported his transition by paying the surgery to remove his breast. He still has a vagina and still likes both sexes (he is bisexual). Biologically speaking, he is female, but under the law he is a man, becaue that is what he considers himself. If you see him, you wouldn't be able to tell his sex. In fact, people think he is a gay guy lol. We are still learning more about these things, and I think is really important to continue studies about the human brain in order to create better and fairer laws for all.

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The WHO is a very respectable source... It does not follow a political agenda since it is a global organization with offices in over 150 countries (it's international). The headquarters are actually located in Geneva... so it is relatively hard for WHO to be politicized, especially when there are scientific research from different parts of the globe backing this organization. I am not saying it is perfect... because science is not perfect. But it is the best thing we have and we can rely on. Nothing else is better than the scientific method. Having said that, to simply say the WHO is wrong on this issue because of "politicization" is wrong. Especially if you read the scientific papers (which are reviewed btw!) that WHO references.

PS. Gender is a social construct. In current scientific knowledge, we still need to develop more research about the human brain to bring about more evidence about gender. But here is the thing. What if you were to receive a surgical operation to remove your sexual organs? Would that remove your status as a female/male? NO! That is why gender is not necessarily a "political statement." Without your sexual organs, you would still consider yourself a gender.

PS. Primarina Everything you've said on regards sex is stated on the WHO article amanda1983 posted. So I don't see why you are saying the WHO is wrong on this side. That amanda1983 misunderstood the WHO article is a very different subject.

I've just checked back on this thread now so missed the replies. Re-reading my reply to Primarina, I can see I wasn't as clear as I should have been : biologically there are 2 sexes, yes. But it is not the case that everyone is born with either XY or XX chromosomes, and has clear sex characteristics matching those chromosomes. Most people are, yes, and those are the commonly understood scientific markers to indicate sex, but not everybody has them.

From the first paragraph of the article :

Most women are 46XX and most men are 46XY. Research suggests, however, that in a few births per thousand some individuals will be born with a single sex chromosome (45X or 45Y) (sex monosomies) and some with three or more sex chromosomes (47XXX, 47XYY or 47XXY, etc.) (sex polysomies). In addition, some males are born 46XX due to the translocation of a tiny section of the sex determining region of the Y chromosome. Similarly some females are also born 46XY due to mutations in the Y chromosome. Clearly, there are not only females who are XX and males who are XY, but rather, there is a range of chromosome complements, hormone balances, and phenotypic variations that determine sex.

This, in context, was the reason I wrote that :

Biological sex is determined by a complex process that does not always result in a an individual being born with either female or male physical sexual characteristics. Genetics are much too complicated for such simple categorisation!

If there is a flaw in my reasoning, or I have missed something in the article that negates that conclusion, please correct me!


I agree the WHO article broadly supports what Primarina was saying regarding the biological perspective. In the interest of thoroughness I was trying to point out that it is not quite so clear cut even regarding biological sex, but I see that I did not make that technical distinction clear enough. The WHO article (and references!) explains the difference between biological sex and the social construct of gender, which is what I was mainly getting at.

I'm going to avoid entering into the debate as to whether the WHO is a valid source of information in this discussion as I'm not interested in that at this time. If someone has a source they'd like to cite that they believe is more appropriate, and somehow free of the risk of being seen to be "political" in some fashion by some party, then I'm happy to read it.

 

[Sadistic]

This thread got into a heated debate.

 

[Blackpink]

I'm a female

 

[jcamac45]

Gender and sex are literally synonyms. They're the same thing. Get over it.

Actually, they are literally different words with different meanings. Here I will give you the definitions of these two words obtained from the Oxford dictionary with their respective references in APA form for your own use:

[1] Sex: noun. Either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and most other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions.

[1] Gender: noun. Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.

1. Stevenson, A. (Ed.). (2010). Oxford dictionary of English. Oxford University Press, USA.

As you can see, both words are not the same thing. It doesn't come from me, it comes from a respectable dictionary source.

 

[That Marshal Fangirl]

Wow. How did I know there were going to be arguments about gender on this thread?

 

[Primarina]

Actually, they are literally different words with different meanings. Here I will give you the definitions of these two words obtained from the Oxford dictionary with their respective references in APA form for your own use:

[1] Sex: noun. Either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and most other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions.

[1] Gender: noun. Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.

1. Stevenson, A. (Ed.). (2010). Oxford dictionary of English. Oxford University Press, USA.

As you can see, both words are not the same thing. It doesn't come from me, it comes from a respectable dictionary source.

Those are politically motivated changes of the definitions. Try a dictionary from 60 years ago, heck 30 years ago, and see what the definitions are.

 

[tumut]

Try a dictionary from 60 years ago, heck 30 years ago, and see what the definitions are.

Okay

Hunny, you've a big storm comin'

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"the classification by which nouns or pronouns (and often other accompanying modifiers) are grouped and inflected, or changed in form by relation to sex or lack their of it"