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i just don’t understand what benefit you’re seeing (if you really are town) to dying as VT, aside from maybe preventing a PR lynch ? But I don’t see why we’d get to that either...
This just strikes me as some reverse psychology personally
nah i think you’re underestimating my willingness to prove a point. if you wanna see my flip wario the townie, go ahead and kill me. i’ve already defended myself and i’m not reiterating it again
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ness is quite obviously not town pr to be making a play like that and claiming geno specifically. don’t understand how it’s town-sided to bait out a watcher claim d2 when there’s no info yet, and to try to push an elim on shawo
nah i think you’re underestimating my willingness to prove a point. if you wanna see my flip wario the townie, go ahead and kill me. i’ve already defended myself and i’m not reiterating it again
ness is quite obviously not town pr to be making a play like that and claiming geno specifically. don’t understand how it’s town-sided to bait out a watcher claim d2 when there’s no info yet, and to try to push an elim on shawo
Yeah, I agree here. A false watcher claim doesn’t seem to be very town aligned to me.
I think I may have more to say on this but I’m going to wait until I get to my laptop and can look back and pull old quotes better
maybe so! I dunno you that well so that could very well be the case. I’m still susp though /shrug
Yeah, I agree here. A false watcher claim doesn’t seem to be very town aligned to me.
I think I may have more to say on this but I’m going to wait until I get to my laptop and can look back and pull old quotes better
oh sorry I skimmed too quick
I personally am leaning more towards maf so I guess not-agree then ? partial agree is probs more accurate - I’ll come back to this later I just need to get my thoughts more in order
No, I am not the watcher, and understandably people are inevitably confused because this play was a gambit. I will not confirm which role I really am unless epona is dead set on taking me out, but it's probably obvious what I am. I did this on purpose not becasue I wanted to gg ez elim a blue claim (shawo) but because every bone in my body was telling me is lying. There are several trains of thought on this situation, and here I why my gut told me shawo is liar.
By the way, I will confirm at minimum that I am genuinely Geno from Mario RPG.
1. First, let's just get the basics out of the way. I am near certain that shawo claimed PR just to purposefully soak up the Doc/Watcher protections for as long as possible. This is why he refused to claim to claim any role specifically, just to dangle is above the PR's heads that he could be an important role. Considering this is an Open-setup, the only reason he would do this as town is to confuse the mafia, which what mafia is going to hit the obvious PR claim with a watcher/doc in play. As he said it himself, the logic for mafia to hit him is zero to none with the reward/risk factor involved. Why else would he so tongue-in-cheek say this:
On paper, this logic seems sound, correct? "I'm a PR so the other PRs should protect me as long as possible." Where this logic starts to fall is when you think about how the world doesn't revolve around Shawo; there are other players that are way more town than Shawo ever was at this point like epona or glow. By baiting out the other PRs in this way, it opens up easy kills on players that are read as pro-town and are on the right track while everyone else goes along with the blue claim due to paranoia.
Shawo is smart enough to understand that given this is an open set-up, someone would easily counter-claim him on the spot and take him out. This is why he still refuses to say which role he is specifically. Ideally he would have known I'm full of crap on the spot and not immediately start begging Epona to instantly eliminate me, but rather just ignore it. His logic of me doing this to bait out the watcher just absolutely fails when you consider that I was in no danger of being the wagon this phase if I had just stayed quiet and went with the majority.
2. Let's assume that shawo was telling the truth about his PR claim from the beginning. Given that we now have the confession he isn't the watcher, see his history on this topic.
The first (and probably only) indication that he is softing Watcher above all else. There was also the Haiku's he made, which upon reading them for the first time earlier I honestly think he did that just to purposefully confuse everyone and probably have little to no meaning behind it anyway.
Assume Shawo is the Kingmaker: We now know for a fact that this is impossible due to the Dino flip. Assume Shawo is the Hero: He completely destroyed any reasonable doubt that this is what he could be, considering he could easily tell @epona to take him out to confirm him and then he could just kill me at night. Even if roleblocked/killed, he could easily be doc saved and the watcher would be there to instantly confirm the doctor and the potentially a roleblocker as well. Assume Shawo is the Watcher: He just confessed that he wasn't, so now we know this can't be the case.
The only logical role left for him to be is the Doctor, which he also just destroyed all credibility for.
The reason why this is clearly a planned out play is because the mafia read me as watcher, but also didn't want to risk killing me and getting doc-saved.
Easy to miss, but he just admitted he isn't doctor by saying he expected to have doctor on him. There's also that his mannerisms in general do not implicate this role, since I would have expected him to start making indications as to who he plans to protect; he has failed to do this by not making any coherent reads other than spamming "X is town" or "Y is mafia" or "I will do X if someone does Y." All his posts have a pattern if you look at them deeply enough.
The train of logic I have on it is this. Shawo did this on purpose to get Volt in the pocket, since I think they're the type to be reluctant with these situations no matter what. By doing this Day 1, he got what he wanted and removed himself from the elimination pool for that phase, as well as potentially many day phases. By say, Day 3 or 4, he would have eventually either admitted that he lied to try and bait mafia into killing him, or someone would have attempted to counter claim him by LYLO and he would have already had enough political power to get one of his buddies kinged to instantly end the game.
3. The following players in my eyes are all either probably town or lock town: Fleshy, Unravel, Ace Marvel. Excluding Cake at the very last second, I have reason to suspect that shawo has been focusing on these 3 players because he was subtly setting up eliminations on Fleshy/Ace/DinoTown, while purposefully being extremely vocal against taking out Unravel simply because she was set to be the obvious elimination before Volt shifted gears at the last second.
The reason this is scummy is because Shawo was subtly complicit during EoD. He may argue that he proposed a better elimination via Cake or Ace Marvel, but he failed at every opportunity to convince others why they were the targets he wanted. Look back at every post he made regarding these targets, and then determine for yourself if you really feel he wanted them gone:
all of that is fine and dandy, but it’s a deflection onto shawo instead of explaining your actions for fakeclaiming watcher, making shawo seem sus to head an elim, and forcing our watcher out
all of that is fine and dandy, but it’s a deflection onto shawo instead of explaining your actions for fakeclaiming watcher, making shawo seem sus to head an elim, and forcing our watcher out
The point wasn’t to expose the watcher, I never said that. I did it read shawo as watcher, and if he counterclaimed it then I half expected to see if anyone else would come out as watcher, revealing the lie.
I admit that I pretty much forced Fleshy to out himself and I genuinely am sorry for that, I thought I made it clear enough for him/ potentially someone else not to claim there.
I feel like you should know better than anyone else that this isn’t my scum play considering how I instantly had to do major damage control last game when shawo decided to go scorched earth against me. I’m not so concerned about that this time and I’m taking shawo down.
And in case I didn’t make myself clear, I had no intentions on keeping this lie up for very long and wanted to get as many reactions as possible. Soz that it’s hypocritical considering I do think plays like this are anti-town but I’ve done things similar to this and have had success.
Two mistakes: 1. The haikus I've made actually put me in a position where I have to claim the PR i've softed, and it has to be clear enough that I can't construe a different PR role.
With that as a basis, you can actually get me lynched upon forcing me to hardclaim a role.
"What PR are you, you said a Haiku could confirm you."
Now I can't claim watcher because at no point was there a direct reference to watcher in my Haikus. (While also making it confusing enough to be interpreted enough.)
2. You got the only reaction you needed (mine.) And still didn't retract, instead making a super wishy washy post about how you're doing SOMETHING.
So this is the direct counterargument against the points you're trying to make. But I'll make a few additional points.
You claim to have known Fleshy was watcher, so why didn't you soft much, much harder to prevent them from claiming?
Why did you claim watcher at all?
Why didn't you ask to confirm watcher mechanics before you claimed?
What was the best outcome that you expected from this?
Well, what is there to explain? “Exposing shawo” obviously isn’t the truth since I’m not watcher. That post was addressing the people who were feigning doubt, unravel/fleshy/bell account.
Honestly I would ask that y’all actually read what I posted rather than play 20 questions with me. I get the frustration and confusing but cmon.
All in all, Ness has made a post about how I am mafia and that they're incredibly terrible play was just the sacrifice that must be made to show the world Shawo's lies.
I truly admire your sacrifice. You've destroyed all credibility you have for the rest of your game. You can die now.
All in all, Ness has made a post about how I am mafia and that they're incredibly terrible play was just the sacrifice that must be made to show the world Shawo's lies.
I truly admire your sacrifice. You've destroyed all credibility you have for the rest of your game. You can die now.
I wish hindsight is 20/20 when it doesn't take more than 24 hours to think of a better way to do that.
If you were able to analyze the position as much as you did, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to think of a good way to put me as mafia.
Also.
As a final point.
Assuming I am claiming PR as blue, there's a completely valid explanation, besides not dying.
If I'm mafia like you said, I'm already not a death target, so all I've REALLY done is remove the 1/14? chance that doc visits any given mafia kill.
But isn't a more likely explanation that my goal is to eat an RB as town?
Due to the fact that both watcher is in the game, eating an RB being the goal so that watcher can actually confirm one mafia.
I also wanted watcher to visit me, to hopefully be able to identify the roleblocker. That was something I wasn't going to put into words until the fact that I wasn't watcher was out there.
I will fully admit, I wouldn't have claimed PR if I was watcher. Watcher HAS to stay hidden for this setup to work.
Well, what is there to explain? “Exposing shawo” obviously isn’t the truth since I’m not watcher. That post was addressing the people who were feigning doubt, unravel/fleshy/bell account.
Honestly I would ask that y’all actually read what I posted rather than play 20 questions with me. I get the frustration and confusing but cmon.
istg I read it but I still can't find a good reason. like players like epona get perfectly good reactions and find out stuff from just voicing their opinions? I mean whatever at this point I am just discussing on how to play the game
