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I really don't get the logic behind it because if they'd said 'Well, I think Geoni would be a good lynch because (insert reason)' then it would not have seemed like a problem to me at all. But instead they snark me when I ask for an explanation then dip.
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I need to go find the post where Bell gives a reason for not voting D1, if they did give one
1) The bleh about mayor and epona and the impression I get is they are going back and forth and back and forth sussing each other and then suddenly Mayorleaf is like, oh ur right, i dont know what I am saying, Looks like two townies just talking and talking...plus they're newbies. I have a soft spot for newbies . I really do not think of them as scummy- especially if they do a lot of posts and trying to engange in the game- unlike bell! I repeat the same sentence because they impress on me the same--trying to be enganging and newbies-
2) Dino is null because she is an OMGSUSer. and OMSUSer to me are nulls. thats my stance anyways period
3) Okay, I guess its fair about your schedule. I don't know your schedule but I am expecting big reads.
4) Teddy laying low by posting random stuff. and semi enganging ...He is a newbie and I love Teddy!
Epona is not a newbie and what does that have to do with the back and forth sussing of one another? What's the -content- of that that gives makes you want to say 'bleh' about it? If you just think it's town vs town then why use that word attached to it is what I'm saying. Being engaging is a better reason to townread a newbie than just read them for being newbies. You just said you were OMGUSy about bell and you should know your alignment so you should also know that being somewhat OMGUSy about something (I don't think Dino has just OMGUS'd flatly) always has a context you can read further into and man is that just such a basic read on Dino.
Bianca - Bianca's comments have been lacklustre at best and cryptic at worst, including straight up saying they are trying to avoid talking because she thinks she's not helping town.
A lot of people have mentioned Bianca has seemed frustrated but frankly I don't see that. That might just be my own personal bias of thinking her posting style with ellipsises everywhere don't convey much but.
this is actually the most emotion I think I've gotten from what she's said the whole game. I think Bianca wanted to fly under the radar for a bit to avoid having to contribute too much as so to not give away much, realised it didn't work too well, and is trying to pull an AtE playstyle to cover up the fact that she is not contributing a lot, when she (as, as far as I know, an experienced player) could be doing more, and not doing a very good job at actually appealing to (at least my) emotions. On top of that, the little she has given away isn't helpful and scummy in places.
This post in particular feels like a poor attempt to shift the conversation away from her so she can go back into hiding. She provides absolutely no reason why the conversation should go to someone else. It's just a name drop and that's literally it. If she'd said 'Oh, let's talk about how x did y" it would make more sense, but instead it just feels "think about someone other than me."
Bianca is currently my first choice of vote.
I'd prefer Bianca to be voted today because whichever way Bianca flips is more likely to give me vibes about potential teams, etc, and Bianca's flip is more likely to make me sway on my read on Damniel, but I don't think Damniel flipping either way would really change my mind about Bianca.
Speaking of crappy schedules I've gotta go to bed if I want decent sleep and will try and make sure I've got a good 15 minutes this if I feel like CFDing someone that isn't Bianca. As it stands though she's just the strongest read and I'd like to nail scum this game.
I don't know Damniel, you seem to have your own agenda, until you vote I'll see it as an empty thread to save Mayor Leaf, if Bianca is lynched, it will due to lack of votes. Everyone is saying I don't mind Bianca being lynched, but I would rather..., yet no one votes for anyone, I'm standing my ground on my Mayor vote, and until Epona's vote just now, I was the crazy vote, but it's getting momentum, yet she is not even in your radar, weird...
And Geoni I'm pretty surprised with your pro Mayor stand, why should we not consider mayor as potential thread?
Dino voting for Bianca is just a follow the leader kind of move.
I will not defend Bianca, but this is Kat 2.0 and I would rather not be part of that. Mainly because it didn't serve us any good.
I also don't see how (real how) Bianca voting for bell is a scum move, she could easily tied herself with Mayor, if she was scum, that would be the logical move, maybe I'm not seeing this. And yes you can call this pushing my Mayor wagon.
Also what's going to happened with Antonio place in the game? Will the role day by the end of the game?
Epona is not a newbie and what does that have to do with the back and forth sussing of one another?
What's the -content- of that that gives makes you want to say 'bleh' about it?
If you just think it's town vs town then why use that word attached to it is what I'm saying. Being engaging is a better reason to townread a newbie than just read them for being newbies.
You just said you were OMGUSy about bell and you should know your alignment so you should also know that being somewhat OMGUSy about something (I don't think Dino has just OMGUS'd flatly) always has a context you can read further into and man is that just such a basic read on Dino.
Epona , I haven't seen her before play games here so she is a newbie to me. Well, she and Mayorleaf are just interacting for being engaging
Bleh- means I am null with townlean on them so whatever they say to each other . I am just like it's all noise, but I like that they are enganging to the conversation
OMGSUS means I sus you , you sus me back. you know this. Why are you pretending like it doesnt make sense to you what I said. So he told me I am scum then I tell him he is scum and I voted him. He is scum in my reads anyways.
Dino absolutely OMGSUS'ed me in a big read way..
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Keep in mind that this is my big OMGSUS moment from you because you were not talking about me and then when Dan asked me who is my strong read..I said dinotown and this big post came up from you. but let me address those things:
Bianca - Bianca's comments have been lacklustre at best and cryptic at worst, including straight up saying they are trying to avoid talking because she thinks she's not helping town.
I was cryptic for a reason, and when my fears got alleviated that Teddy will slip , i explained my logic hoping those who are town will get what I am doing. Please refer to my ISO on this and my explanation on my thinking process.
A lot of people have mentioned Bianca has seemed frustrated but frankly I don't see that. That might just be my own personal bias of thinking her posting style with ellipsises everywhere don't convey much but.
I was really frustrated when my action to stop Teddy translated into me being wagoned and the only reason I am in this situation is because of that which I am still defending. and will continue to defend . I don't care . I tried to help but if it turned into something ominous, it is not right.
this is actually the most emotion I think I've gotten from what she's said the whole game. I think Bianca wanted to fly under the radar for a bit to avoid having to contribute too much as so to not give away much, realised it didn't work too well, and is trying to pull an AtE playstyle to cover up the fact that she is not contributing a lot, when she (as, as far as I know, an experienced player) could be doing more, and not doing a very good job at actually appealing to (at least my) emotions. On top of that, the little she has given away isn't helpful and scummy in places.
If I wanted to fly under the radar, I will just let Teddy slip and voila he is cop and keep it to myself. I am trying to contribute then but look what it got me?
This post in particular feels like a poor attempt to shift the conversation away from her so she can go back into hiding. She provides absolutely no reason why the conversation should go to someone else. It's just a name drop and that's literally it. If she'd said 'Oh, let's talk about how x did y" it would make more sense, but instead it just feels "think about someone other than me."
I don't get this. Please give me context
Bianca is currently my first choice of vote.
I'd prefer Bianca to be voted today because whichever way Bianca flips is more likely to give me vibes about potential teams, etc, and Bianca's flip is more likely to make me sway on my read on Damniel, but I don't think Damniel flipping either way would really change my mind about Bianca.
Fine it's your choice. I have no comment. I have a reason why I am fighting and proving I am town. I cannot sway everyone but I will try to everyone who will listen to me.
I am not voting someone just to make it even and me have a chance. I will vote for who I think is scum, even if it is OMGSUS. I have no reason to vote for Mayorleaf, sure she has voted for me but I am still waiting on her justification why she voted for me.
I am not voting someone just to make it even and me have a chance. I will vote for who I think is scum, even if it is OMGSUS. I have no reason to vote for Mayorleaf, sure she has voted for me but I am still waiting on her justification why she voted for me.
Speaking of crappy schedules I've gotta go to bed if I want decent sleep and will try and make sure I've got a good 15 minutes this if I feel like CFDing someone that isn't Bianca. As it stands though she's just the strongest read and I'd like to nail scum this game.
i don't like how you're willing to just blitz someone at the very EoD instead of bringing a case on someone now and check later to see how people feel about it EoD. im getting the feeling that you just don't want to hard suspect anyone besides bianca who you feel is an easy lynch. i get the sus but it doesn't seem like you're trying to world build in a case where Bianca's scum (you say possibly dino and epona but im not getting the sense you've thought about it a lot). it realllyyy doesn't sit well with me that geo's willing to blitz someone in the last minute, but not bringing up possible cases for other people besides bianca. just seems like he's avoiding having to bus/take hard stances on others and he's said as town that bussing is dumb. blitzes are bad since they usually just lead to implies votes instead of discussing other wagons long before then. only mafia really benefit from the chaos of a blitz. town geo should know we would benefit more from longer discussion on other wagons than a chaotic EoD switch
voting for geo for now as Im having my doubts of the nature of bianca's wagon and her new posts seeing to come from a town perspective. geo's behavior really doesn't sit right with me and i don't think he's teamed with bianca so if he flips read bianca is most likely not maf. yea im still sus on teddy but my new realization on geo is much stronger. yea ik this is coming out of nowhere but geo's attitude towards D2 made me rethink everything
finishing my ISO on mayor leaf now but the weird behavior that im a bit sus of instead enough for me to vote for her yet
anyways here's my ISO on mayorleaf i did earlier. note this isn't a case but my observation on her behavior. but when I ISO someone i imagine the worst case scenario and try to find as many issues with their posts as i can and see if it ultimately makes a strong logical scum case
Trundle - slight mafia lean, see post. (yes, i voted on a slight lean)
epona - mafia lean, mostly because of this post and how quickly she wrote off trundle and antonio, both people who i think are mafia as of this moment. hard to know for sure because she continually gives me town mentality but wolf in sheeps clothing and all that, right?
dinotown - 50/50, enough has been said about her and nothing thus far has proven to me that she's town or mafia, but suspicions remain.
bell accont - no comment
seroja - no comment
biancasbotique - i love a messy queen who jumps right in to the lynch dino mob, probably a townie.
voltairenism - townie? maybe??? hard to tell.
geoni - maf lean, but nothing concrete. mostly just curious about his response to trundle scum reading.
Antonio - maf. too much stirring not enough analysis from where i'm sitting.
Teddy345 - mafia lean, too riddler-esque style of gameplay for my liking. the trinity comment helped my suspicious, freudian slip perhaps?
noting her first reads post. seems riddled with uncertianity and shakiness. not a fan of the "no comments" since you could still say what you're thinking of them even if its null
nope, definitely don't think everyone is mafia but i guess that's how i'm playing it this game. it's easier for me to start teasing out mafia behavior in folks and then see who leans harder. take my reads as conversation starters where i hope others will dispute or give insights as to why i might be off.
no comments may be interpreted as "i don't know what to say about them at this time"
i like the strategy of thinking the worst first. honestly if i tried to read everyone assuming they're town i could rationalize any weird behavior as just town in one way or the other
isn't that the best strategy? i don't want to go down the "if i were mafia i would..." road because that's a steep ass slope covered in ice but.... i could see how that's a way to play it. i will say that i'm extremely wary of anyone who isnt being all that straightforward.
voltairenism - maf lean. looking back at earlier posts their strategy appears to be picking apart details not to really gleam anything but just to try and catch people in a lie/precarious situation.
epona - most likely town, just seems extremely aware of intentions and strategy so unsure if it's being used to enlighten or manipulate, tho so far seems harmless.
bell account - town lean. went back and reviewed and they're not really attempting to force the accusations at any one player.
Arstotzkhan - slight town lean, reading other's reads and looking back has helped me understand her posts better.
re: teddy, it just feels a little ultimatum-y to say "yea i could get killed but if i do, then you'll miss out on all this intel" hence, mafia lean.
noting that mayorleaf initially town reads epona but seems to ultimately determine she's being manipulate, so her sus on her is completely out of nowhere
Sorry I was actually writing this at work and halfway thru I had to leave for home. Iftar is in now so if this looks rushed, it is. Please feel free to poke at it and I will answer when I’m back after the night prayers.
Trundle - at first I kind of understand him being sus of Dino over her enthusiasm, but after hundreds of pages in (and many many explanation posts from her later) it starts to feel opportunistic to me especially because he didn't acknowledge nor address her replies to him. I also fail to see how post lengths are indicative of alignment without actually discussing the contents of said posts. Null because he hasn't really done anything outright sus, but definitely keeping a close eye on him.
Epona- probably my strongest town lean at the moment. Basically I like her posts and how she didn't leave no stone unturned and questioned everything that I probably would had I been here.
Dinotown- I could tell that you were genuinely trying to explain your enthusiasm but I guess the way it was said rubbed people off the wrong way. Your tone reads as genuine, but so far I haven't seen you contributing much to the discussions aside from answering questions directed at you. I agree with Antonio about you being too much on the defense, and would like to see more thoughts from you. Not enough for a town lean yet. Null.
Bell Account - Slight town-lean because their posts are very straightforward and to the point (it helps that I also agree with them). I especially like your comparison on Arstotskan and Epona because they don't read as calculative or manufactured. (Not commenting on the accuracy of the reads though)
Mayor Leaf - another town lean. More or less on the same reasoning as Epona.
Bianca- a wild card as always. Iirc being the first person to place a vote is usually a towntell but I'm not comfortable reading her based on this alone. And I didn't like how she was here but only replied to casual posts from Dino without commenting on any of the issues discussed at the time. I don't like writing it of as 'ohh it's the usual Bianca playstyle' either. Still need more posts from her. Also hi Bianca!!!
voltairenism - did they seem like they tried hard to come up with points to discuss? Yes they did. But I could see them doing this as either town or mafia so null for now.
Geoni - You’re the last in my iso so I’m not done yet but I’m posting this now to get the rest out. Allow me to post my read on you in a separate post. But basically getting town vibes from your posts so far.
Antonio - Null leaning town because Antonio's post are almost transparent to me. He seemed to post whatever was on his mind at the given time (which isn't necessarily a good thing because it could come as either parroting or sheeping others) I also think that as mafia he wouldn't try to stop the tunnelling on Dino (unless he is scumbuddy with her, which I highly doubt), and ask for the discussion to be on other players too. However, it would've been better if he had come up with points of discussion himself instead of asking others to do it.
Teddy345 - his cryptic posts confused me, and I agreed with Epona’s points about his playstyle not being protown, but at the same time I don’t see why he would post that way as mafia. It would be a bit too out there and I believe mafia always wants to appear as protown and as lowkey as possible. The reason why we encourage engagement and discussions is so that we will have content to look at when a player dies (also you might notice something that nobody else has). If you’re really town, even if you’re willing to die, don’t let your death be in vain.
Arstotzkhan - I don’t have a concrete read on Kat yet because she was here but also felt a bit distant from the discussions. I remember that even as a third party (who was arguably protown) she usually had something interesting to say. That seems to be missing in this game. When I saw the scumleans on her I entertained the thought of a Kat/Teddy team. What if she was coaching him but instead of doing it in the scumchat, she did that here? Anyway, null on her.
No scumleans yet because honestly nobody stood out as scum so far. I don’t like scumleaning peeps without suspicions .
that's what puts me off thinking kat is town. i'm trying to think of a situation where donald trump is town and it's not too far a stretch since he recently told his constituents to think about putting disinfectants in their lungs.
i'm just playing a lil bit of devil's advocate but tbh i dont think she's maf.
why would you come out and claim a name that is so clearly not gonna be town regardless of if you know the theme or not. he doesn't scream town at all so part of me is wondering if maybe kat wants an early out of the game hence why she would lie abt the name? am i reading too much into it?
i agree with this, you're both pushing pretty hard against her and i think she could be town. i don't want to vote her but i like the way epona is framing her mislynch as a clue.
mayorleaf asserts that role names are not important, but entertains the idea that Kat's role name could possibly be anittown. she also says she doesn't think kat is maf but teeters around her weird behavior. she seems to townread kat but tbh doesnt seem like she's so sure of it. she also initially town reads epona but this is where she seems to start changing that read
still doesn't sit right with me that you're willing to vote someone you think is town. if you really think she's town then defend her and push your own sus reads. being willing to vote for someone you think is town then you either don't actually think they're town or you're just willing to lynch anyone
i respect the POVs others have suggested and i can see how she can be seen as a threat to town. i meant i was willing to vote for her if my vote counted, but seeing the latest tally of votes she's set to be lynched anyway and i just don't agree.
this doesn't really explain much why shed be willing to vote kat. if you don't agree with a wagon, then don't support it. this may have been her realizing she can't stop the kat lynch, but i feel like she should've fought more for her own reads
i think i hit on something and they just want to make me out to be the villain?
the way they jumped on me for going on about how/why i think kat is town is weird as hell. i will be the first to apologize if kat is in fact mafia, but i just don't see what you all are seeing. blame it on naivete i guess.
mayorleaf has a valid criticism on volt, but i feel like its kinda hypocritical when you could argue your vote doesn't make a difference either if you're not pushing enough
its valid not to vote on kat, but i still think she couldve tried to convince the volt skepts to vote with her. i think a volt lynch couldve happened but there wasn't a strong enough push for it
and honestly it was convenient. a little before this reveal, volt was touting how it'd be a mistake to vote for them after geoni had raised suspicions. then epona raised more suspicions here regarding bianca's reads and how favorable they were of volt. then dino comes along to attempt to deflect suspicions from volt here. then immediately after all this mounting suspicion, volt comes out and says they're mr. clean after antonio prompts for mr. clean.
it's just ~too~ coincidental. especially given that after i started putting pressure on volt they were quick to attack me and my theories even though a few others had voiced concerns earlier.
i'm saying them role claiming to be mr. clean right after a couple ppl were raising suspicions of them is weird. i think they lied about their role and they're mafia that's all.
if you don't think role names matter (and the OP says the same thing), why would someone risk being counter claimed lie about it? what's the real benefit?
does anyone else get the feeling that bianca doesn’t really answer questions/contribute to sussing out mafia? could she be third party? shes given the weakest analysis of people by far and she’s more just not helpful than fishy like mafia. i mean that behavior def helps mafia but it’s just kinda all over the place and i cant seem to find any motivation.
bell and epona have both pointed out weird behavior with her that i agree with.
i think its a valid response since teddy hadn't localized any real reasons to sus mayorleaf at this point, but do you think teddy and bianca can still be teamed together?
teddy, i'm still really confused why you're sus of me if you're so trusting of seroja's reads. i think her reads were strong, and mostly correct (sans scumpona, nice name btw geoni i lol'd) and that's why she got axed.
a lot of seroja's reads end in null so im a bit unsure how you think they're mostly correct. doesn't yet contradict the reads you posted before but id like to hear how you think they're correct (if you still do)
TDLR: Mayorleaf definitely has some points that contradict each other. i feel like she should've pushes harder for volt/trundle lynch if she was really against kats lynch (which im unsure if she was), but to be fair im not sure how possible it would've been for a new player to lead a strong enough counter wagon. there were also people sus of volt so everyone who was but didn't seriously consider switching the vote to them could be blamed for not following with mayorleaf. i highly doubt they're teamed with bianca but i don't think its impossible that she and geoni are teamed. i understand where suspicions could come from, but id still rather vote bianca.
im now more unsure on bianca since i don't think she would be teamed with mayorleaf, geoni, teddy, or bell if she was maf with them. so I'd prefer a geoni lynch most, then teddy, then mayorleaf, and maybe maybe bianca but she seems to be coming around
If nobody has a passionate alternative lynch candidate they want to make into a counterwagon and I'm wrong about Bianca I feel like it's a big waste of the day but like her ISO really just does nothing for me.
Speaking of crappy schedules I've gotta go to bed if I want decent sleep and will try and make sure I've got a good 15 minutes this if I feel like CFDing someone that isn't Bianca. As it stands though she's just the strongest read and I'd like to nail scum this game.
if there is no counterwagon on bianca, then can she really be scum? you said you wouldn't entertain the idea that kat was maf because nearly everyone voted her, why is it different for bianca? if you think this day can lead to a waste then why are you considering other wagons instead of just parking your bianca vote?
Trundle- i was critical that he wasn’t pushing his susses in D1 but after talking with him he seems to have given genuine answers. it doesn’t feel like he’s trying to hide something or bend the truth, and his logic seems pretty sound so far. but there’s that part of me that struggles to fully townread trundle that easily so slight town lean for now
he's been strangely not present this day, but I would need to do an ISO on him to really nail down my read. an ISO will have to come N2 though since he's not on my priorities currently and I have some stuff to do before EoD. nothing too much stands out about trundle but i think ill become more clear with his take on today
@Damniel re: your ISO, at the time it seemed like everyone was 100% certain on lynching Kat. it didn't take much convincing for people to accept that so i didn't want to waste my energy on trying to force my counter push for volt. i still think we should've lynched you, because ultimately kat wasn't that sketchy IMO. (we'll find out at the very end i guess, but i'm 80% certain she was town.)
i do agree that i should've pushed harder.
currently writing up a response to ur question to why i think teddy and epona could work as a team, but epona does read more town. teddy i'm sus of because of how he started this wagon against me seemingly out of nowhere.
lynch me if you want but the outcome will only hurt town. either you get a no read because the janitor is still out there or you just lynch another townie (assuming kat was town).
@bianca i'm sus of u since the volt incident. you took my theory which was very straightforward in explaining why volt is being sus and tried to make it seem like he was just being incriminated. i kept trying to push you on it but you didn't really answer me directly.
it gets complicated by the fact that damniel came in with a totally different attitude than volt despite having the same role. in my mind you and volt were partnered up.
