Mafia TBT Micromafia: The Resistance (Spies Won)

[dedenne]

cant they send in fail or success tho? so whoever's scum might send in success to make it seem like someone else is scum

 

[toadsworthy]

cant they send in fail or success tho? so whoever's scum might send in success to make it seem like someone else is scum

For scum team to win, they would have to have someone in the mission every single time and vote no then... which would be very hard for the 2 person mission

 

[cornimer]

cant they send in fail or success tho? so whoever's scum might send in success to make it seem like someone else is scum

Yeah that's true, but like Toads said scum needs to fail missions to win and that's easier to do with 3 people than 2. So if there is scum in the current mission it will most likely fail

 

[Dolby]

@Dolby, do you think Vanessa/Ness and Antonio or Vanessa/Ness and Punchy could be a possible team based on interactions?
could you live in a world where I am town because I am, if I can get over how annoying and scummy you have come across. Not saying its what I want to pursue, not saying this is gonna fail, but I want to know all my options so that we can figure it out

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I don't want teams, I want your reads on each individual

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why does no one answer the actual questions.... why is everyone gotta be so short, sarcastic, and distant. If this is what mafia games have become, yeah I may be out after this

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also if it fails... this tells me that one of Vanessa or Punchy is on the scum team. And I can re evaluate from there

I actually pretty much can?t see you not scum not only because of your behavior, but also because Antonio?s slot has been hard defending you and sussing me the entire game for no reason. I?m set on the scumteam and I actually don?t need to do any work any more on convincing people unless Vanessa thinks me/Punchy is possible

TECHINICALLY both of those teams are possible if I overlook my townlean on Ness for rage quitting, but I don?t see Ness ragequitting here unless he?s town, so that pretty much sinks those teams, but your focus on sussing Vanessa here is telling because she?s the only one besides myself who wants you off the team

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Also there’s no world Where Toads doesn’t fail this so me/Antonio team will still be reached as impossible to the rest of you

Again ANTONIO LITERALLY SENT TOADS ON THE MISSION INSTEAD OF HIMSELF OR NESS

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Actually, let me put it this way

I can see worlds without you, but they’re are so much more unlikely due to the sustained one way link between you and Antonio

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Also, b4 Toads puts forward the same point about Ounchy being unconfirmed, at the time Punchy was already supposed to be on the team

Actually, because of that action alone I can’t see Vanessa/Antonio as a remote possibility

 

[toadsworthy]

I actually pretty much can’t see you not scum not only because of your behavior, but also because Antonio’s slot has been hard defending you and sussing me the entire game for no reason. I’m set on the scumteam and I actually don’t need to do any work any more on convincing people unless Vanessa thinks me/Punchy is possible

TECHINICALLY both of those teams are possible if I overlook my townlean on Ness for rage quitting, but I don’t see Ness ragequitting here unless he’s town, so that pretty much sinks those teams, but your focus on sussing Vanessa here is telling because she’s the only one besides myself who wants you off the team

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Also there’s no world Where Toads doesn’t fail this so me/Antonio team will still be reached as impossible to the rest of you

Again ANTONIO LITERALLY SENT TOADS ON THE MISSION INSTEAD OF HIMSELF OR NESS

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Actually, let me put it this way

I can see worlds without you, but they’re are so much more unlikely due to the sustained one way link between you and Antonio

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Also, b4 Toads puts forward the same point about Ounchy being unconfirmed, at the time Punchy was already supposed to be on the team

Actually, because of that action alone I can’t see Vanessa/Antonio as a remote possibility

A. I'm not sussing Vanessa because she is sussing me... I wouldn't do that to anyone, unless they are sussing me for stupid reasons in which I'll point them out. I'm sussing Vanessa on the premise that I'm sure one of Dolby or Ness is scum, and I previously thought it has to be Dolby because his continual tunneling of me seems more convenient from his scum standpoint rather than from an open-minded town side trying to actual figure this out. In the event that this mission does fail... One of Vanessa or Punchy is scum.

B. Dolby being this combative also is scum leaning. It shows his priorities in this game, he is more about being firm in his standpoints and ideas rather than being open to new ideas when his don't work out. Which they are not gonna work out, because I'm town. I don't think this evidence Dolby keeps bringing up about an Antonio/Me team is a concrete as he is making it seem too. Just because Antonio picked me for a 2 person team and that slot always supports me, doesn't mean I'm scum and were working together... tbh that would be so obvious. If you read this whole post, please write my full username and capitalize it in a post. Everyone is looking for obvious clues as to who is the scum team and its not gonna be like that at all. You need to read people's intentions and motives, and Dolby's are all not good. Throughout this whole time, Dolby has not taken any accountability for his own actions that would lead me to so strongly sus him, he casually misses my character profiling of him being a scum person and while he may not see the value of it, I think it speaks a lot. Basing all of your reads on possible teams never solves these games and I want everyone to be open to new ideas and new possibilities.

 

[Dolby]

A. I'm not sussing Vanessa because she is sussing me... I wouldn't do that to anyone, unless they are sussing me for stupid reasons in which I'll point them out. I'm sussing Vanessa on the premise that I'm sure one of Dolby or Ness is scum, and I previously thought it has to be Dolby because his continual tunneling of me seems more convenient from his scum standpoint rather than from an open-minded town side trying to actual figure this out. In the event that this mission does fail... One of Vanessa or Punchy is scum.

Is there anything in your mind that makes Punchy/Antonio impossible besides a conviction that either me or VaNESSa is scum? Because you are kinda acknowledging that possibility now when you put forward every team without one of us on it EXCEPT that one

Besides, I don't see scum Ness ragequitting at this point

B. Dolby being this combative also is scum leaning. It shows his priorities in this game, he is more about being firm in his standpoints and ideas rather than being open to new ideas when his don't work out. Which they are not gonna work out, because I'm town. I don't think this evidence Dolby keeps bringing up about an Antonio/Me team is a concrete as he is making it seem too. Just because Antonio picked me for a 2 person team and that slot always supports me, doesn't mean I'm scum and were working together... tbh that would be so obvious. If you read this whole post, please write my full username and capitalize it in a post. Everyone is looking for obvious clues as to who is the scum team and its not gonna be like that at all. You need to read people's intentions and motives, and Dolby's are all not good. Throughout this whole time, Dolby has not taken any accountability for his own actions that would lead me to so strongly sus him, he casually misses my character profiling of him being a scum person and while he may not see the value of it, I think it speaks a lot. Basing all of your reads on possible teams never solves these games and I want everyone to be open to new ideas and new possibilities.

Let's be real here, Antonio really floundered as scum and is less experienced than all of us. So is Dedenne, who can't even put forward reasoning for her reads. I think that Dedenne should actually be lock scum for all of us at this point unless she can point to something specific as to why she townreads you over me. But it actually is this ****ing obvious. You've actually been doing a decent job pointing away from the team if it's that, but that slot hasn't. It's consistently had you as it's ONLY townlean and wanted you on missions, including supporting a three person mission it wasn't on. Antonio doesn't have the experience to NOT be obvious. Contrasting that, you were literally suggesting that me and Antonio were communicating in scumchat and I told him to sus me and put forward a team that would be sunk down. How was that anymore feasible

AmazonEvan is fairly experienced, and he still will not vote for a teammate unless it's clear they're going under. He once tried to save cop inspect for gods sake. These clues do exist. Basing your reads on possible teams does work, and I do it every freaking time. When was the last time (besides Ships because I was clearly off that game) that I HAVENT put forward a grand unified team D1. Pretty hard to point out to it. But if you can clear somebody from having teammates, you can pretty much clear them and that's useful

I've taken damn accountability for my actions. I was wrong on Ness and that's fine. The entire reason why you got on me in the first place was that you were upset that I didn't back off of you once you said that I was townier than Ness, bascially admitted to trying to pocket me.

Toadsworthy, there, you happy

What intentions of mine are not good?
How is my behavior different from previous games? Your "scumtells" are that I'm worldbuilding and trying to solve the game, which I try to (or at least pretend to as scum) every time I'm facing a 2 or more person scumteam. Your motives are not good. You haven't put forward a concrete townlean thus far, and neither has Antonio/Dedenne, and have been bending over backwards at points to try to get me on your side, it won't work. Your entire game is based around me being scum because I'm against you, but you were happy to vote for a scumteam which I put forward, and which I voted for

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Also, I don't need to reevaluate, because me scumteam is still very very possible. After this fails, you'll need to pretend you are, and the fact that you are BEFORE it fails should be evidence enough that you know it'll fail already

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Actually, how the **** was I overly combative here

 

[dedenne]

@dolby
ik this isnt directed at me but since when did i ever give good reasoning/ any reasoning at all for my reads or whatever??? and every time im sussed for that i end up being town.

 

[Dolby]

@dolby
ik this isnt directed at me but since when did i ever give good reasoning/ any reasoning at all for my reads or whatever??? and every time im sussed for that i end up being town.

Fair point on that I guess, but you said you had reasoning and aren't providing it

The problem is that both you and Antonio entered with identical reads and have been consistently pro-Toads throughout the whole game, including Antonio sending Toads in what should have been Ness's place on the first team

 

[dedenne]

Fair point on that I guess, but you said you had reasoning and aren't providing it

The problem is that both you and Antonio entered with identical reads and have been consistently pro-Toads throughout the whole game, including Antonio sending Toads in what should have been Ness's place on the first team

i cant remember what ur reply was to this before but before i even offered to replace in i thought u were scum and toads was town

 

[Dolby]

i cant remember what ur reply was to this before but before i even offered to replace in i thought u were scum and toads was town

that had major problems, and that was that you wanted a three person team without you on it (Punchy/Vanessa/Toads), which if you are town, was guarenteed to have scum on it. You stated your support for it despite knowing that it has scum on it if you're town and I KNOW has scum on it.

You shouldn't be using your reads from before the game if you thought that your slot was scum, which is basically what you were saying

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ok thoughts so far im like 99% certain dolby is maf this is not his usual town play at all I could see that from the beginning and I believe toads is town. I also agree with sending punchy toads and vanessa on the mission.

Yeah, if you?re town here you know that this mission has scum onit

 

[dedenne]

that had major problems, and that was that you wanted a three person team without you on it (Punchy/Vanessa/Toads), which if you are town, was guarenteed to have scum on it. You stated your support for it despite knowing that it has scum on it if you're town and I KNOW has scum on it.

You shouldn't be using your reads from before the game if you thought that your slot was scum, which is basically what you were saying

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Yeah, if you’re town here you know that this mission has scum onit

oh ye um i didnt think through that properly cos i just needed to post smth but after thinking it through i realised that one of the people are scum

 

[Dolby]

oh ye um i didnt think through that properly cos i just needed to post smth but after thinking it through i realised that one of the people are scum

Yeah

Can you rank the people on the mission from most to least suspicious for you if you assume there’s one scum on the team

Can you do the same assuming that two scum are on the mission (Possible teams are Punchy/Vanessa, Vanessa/Toads, and Toads/Punchy)

 

[dedenne]

Yeah

Can you rank the people on the mission from most to least suspicious for you if you assume there’s one scum on the team

Can you do the same assuming that two scum are on the mission (Possible teams are Punchy/Vanessa, Vanessa/Toads, and Toads/Punchy)

from most to least

punchy vanessa toads
although i am also thing of putting vanessa last cos of the whole ness ragequitting thing

assuming 2 scum are on the mission

punchy toads vanessa??

 

[Dolby]

assuming 2 scum are on the mission

punchy toads vanessa??

I meant that if two scum were on the mission, who do you think are most likely to be teamed up

For example
Toads/Punchy
Vanessa/Punchy
Vanessa/Toads

This is just an example of how you could arange the teams but I want to know where you're at assuming I'm town

 

[dedenne]

I meant that if two scum were on the mission, who do you think are most likely to be teamed up

For example
Toads/Punchy
Vanessa/Punchy
Vanessa/Toads

This is just an example of how you could arange the teams but I want to know where you're at assuming I'm town

OH ok

punchy/toads

punchy/vanessa and Vanessa/toads are tied cos i dont think either are likely tbh although i dont think ive seen any of them communicate unless im mistaken

 

[Dolby]

Alright, so I'm planning to post this after Dedenne gives me more information for the two person teams because I don't want to have an effect on her response, but seriously. If you assume that I am scum (which is the only world for her assuming that there's only one scum on the mission), then Vanessa should be CLEAR and not comparable to Toads. Yes, she did pretty much acknowledge that, but she unduly elevated Toads to the top of her reads despite this fact. Assuming that I'm scum, Vanessa and Toads aren't even comparable. Yes Toads is highly unlikely to be teamed with me, but Vanessa literally cannot be on a team with me DUE to Ness ragequitting. If she is considering that possibility, than why is Toads higher up in her reads

Again, she delibrately tries to make Toads as high in her reads as possible, just like Antonio did.

Written after her two person teams post
Tbh, Dedenne's two person teams actually reflect better on her than I expected given her answers to the first part of my questions, but it does reveal that Vanessa should be higher in Dedenne's reads list than Toads still because she's pretty much rules out Vanessa from having any likely teammates. I don't view any of them as likely personally (though I do think that Vanessa/Toads is literally impossible due to her having ample room to sus me over Toads)

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Any of them being the two person teams

 

[dedenne]

yeah i was going to put vanessa at top but i didnt bc i have no idea why

 

[Dolby]

yeah i was going to put vanessa at top but i didnt bc i have no idea why

Then why didn’t you put her at the top

Actually, have you read the whole thread?

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You’re bending over backwards to justify our mistakes here

 

[toadsworthy]

Is there anything in your mind that makes Punchy/Antonio impossible besides a conviction that either me or VaNESSa is scum?

I guess its possible, but I really feel like one of the more veteran players would have to be on it.

Besides, I don't see scum Ness ragequitting at this point

This isn't that much of a reason to clear Vanessa and him tbh

So is Dedenne, who can't even put forward reasoning for her reads. I think that Dedenne should actually be lock scum for all of us at this point unless she can point to something specific as to why she townreads you over me. But it actually is this ****ing obvious

So you are just going to chock it up to obvious scum is always going to be obvious scum which is dumb to just believe. And to think that I would allow my scum partner to be that obvious this whole time, for two people, is freaking stupid and the fact that you of all people are going with these obvious choices feels convenient.

you were literally suggesting that me and Antonio were communicating in scumchat and I told him to sus me and put forward a team that would be sunk down. How was that anymore feasible

Agreed that its a little far-fetched, but I'm known for throwing out far-out ideas before so, I don't know why that's so shocking.

AmazonEvan is fairly experienced, and he still will not vote for a teammate unless it's clear they're going under. He once tried to save cop inspect for gods sake. These clues do exist.

Why are you comparing Antonio to Evan and saying that is how Antonio is going to act. You are playing with fire trying to reason that one person is going to do something, based on someone completely different doing the same thing. And frankly thats not the type of evidence and game-solving skills that I would expect of you to do.

but you were happy to vote for a scumteam which I put forward, and which I voted for

If a possible scum team is gonna help me figure this out and what I think to be the actual town team, yeah I'm gonna vote it in the case of the current mission. All of the 2 person teams, I knew would come back as successful, we all knew would be successful, so I didn't really care about those and I don't know why you are dwelling so much on them.

Your "scumtells" are that I'm worldbuilding and trying to solve the game

Your entire game is based around me being scum because I'm against you

Lol wtf, you don't listen to me at all... your posts aren't game-solving or world-building (we'll just let it slip how cocky and arrogant this is). Also this is a flagrant twisting of my words. Multiple people seem to be doubtful of this current team, so I'm prepping everyone to be open-minded to different teams because there are a lot of people who are stubborn on some things and they need to be ready to think outside of that box. That's what I've been doing with TRYING to cooperate with you to try to think of possible other teams, but instead of you cooperating you just keep throwing knives. And MY game is built on you being scum? I've shown that I've been open-minded to maybe, just maybe you are town, but YOUR game on me from literally my first post has been scum reading me. You also make it extremely hard to work with you this whole time too.

On top of all this, your tone and your aggressive behavior is COMPLETELY different from other games. We've been on different wavelengths before but we are able to work through it and I don't see that happening at all this time, and honestly its not me... because I've tried to think outside the box, but you are making it painstakingly obvious that you don't want my help. If you are town and you do want to win this, then YOU need to get it through your head that I'm town. All I've done this game is try to figure it out and be flexible, but no one has given me as much fodder to believe they are scum than you.

 

[Dolby]

So you are just going to chock it up to obvious scum is always going to be obvious scum which is dumb to just believe. And to think that I would allow my scum partner to be that obvious this whole time, for two people, is freaking stupid and the fact that you of all people are going with these obvious choices feels convenient.

Herding teammates is honestly like herding cats. The obvious choice is probably right because Antonio's slot of less experienced players is the only one that has given me reason to believe that the two of you are teamed due to it's behavior. Moverover, there is not a single other team that I consider more likely than the average probability of that team existing

Agreed that its a little far-fetched, but I'm known for throwing out far-out ideas before so, I don't know why that's so shocking.

The ideas dumb and you're still holding on to it. You held on to it to keep from losing the argument that me/Antonio is possible, which you're glad to drop now since you know that's not the case

Why are you comparing Antonio to Evan and saying that is how Antonio is going to act. You are playing with fire trying to reason that one person is going to do something, based on someone completely different doing the same thing. And frankly thats not the type of evidence and game-solving skills that I would expect of you to do.

I'm comparing Antonio to Evan because Evan is more skilled and more experienced. Yet he's obvious scum because he cannot help but try to protect his teammates. why do you expect new scum to not be obvious and to know how to play?

Or is it because I'm using it to scumread you to

If a possible scum team is gonna help me figure this out and what I think to be the actual town team, yeah I'm gonna vote it in the case of the current mission. All of the 2 person teams, I knew would come back as successful, we all knew would be successful, so I didn't really care about those and I don't know why you are dwelling so much on them.

I'm not talking about that team anymore, I'm talking about this one. If I was scum, I'd have an ulterior motive to vote yes on this team, and you walk past it without a second thought and vote, because you're on the team. Why, if I'm scum, do I vote for a team without me on it

Lol wtf, you don't listen to me at all... your posts aren't game-solving or world-building (we'll just let it slip how cocky and arrogant this is). Also this is a flagrant twisting of my words. Multiple people seem to be doubtful of this current team, so I'm prepping everyone to be open-minded to different teams because there are a lot of people who are stubborn on some things and they need to be ready to think outside of that box. That's what I've been doing with TRYING to cooperate with you to try to think of possible other teams, but instead of you cooperating you just keep throwing knives. And MY game is built on you being scum? I've shown that I've been open-minded to maybe, just maybe you are town, but YOUR game on me from literally my first post has been scum reading me. You also make it extremely hard to work with you this whole time too.

On top of all this, your tone and your aggressive behavior is COMPLETELY different from other games. We've been on different wavelengths before but we are able to work through it and I don't see that happening at all this time, and honestly its not me... because I've tried to think outside the box, but you are making it painstakingly obvious that you don't want my help. If you are town and you do want to win this, then YOU need to get it through your head that I'm town. All I've done this game is try to figure it out and be flexible, but no one has given me as much fodder to believe they are scum than you.

Go back, look at my ****ing games, and bring them into the thread rather than just saying that I am acting different and hoping everyone trusts you. Oh wait, I'm not and you don't want to look for actual evidence. You're already doubting it despite it not already failing. I don't want your help because your scum game is obvious and this is it


Toads, what do you think about Dedenne bending to my pressure already and changing how they feel about Vanessa. Is that not scum indicative? Putting you over Vanessa, then saying that they didn't intend that, despite pointing attention to that in her original post, then saying that they don't know why but now view Vanessa as more likely town despite NOTHING having changed