Mafia TBT Switch Mafia (Long Days and Nights)- ENDGAME @Page 120- Town Wins

[Biancasbotique]

Ghostkid (Gavin) has replaced Daphne. Welcome Gavin to TBT Switch Mafia!

 

[Ghostkid]

hello everyone!

 

[PunchyTheCat]

hello everyone!

do rqs and state thoughts on the game as you progress through reading through it

 

[Dolby]

Townleans: Punchy, Dad, Damniel, Temptations
Null: unravel
Scumleans: Farobi, Vampnessa, Dolby
Nobody cares because they'll die anyway: Delphine. Probably vanilla townie R I P

Alright *cracks knuckles*

On a note about this before going into this, I personally think that unravel/Evan and Farobi/Evan don't work. Evan jumps on the opportunity to TR scummate unravel and Farobi doesn't cling to his teammate of all people like a baby koala, he's clings to someone else in order to pocket them

Possible scumteams in order of likelihood: Dolby/Vanessa, Vampnessa/Farobi, Dolby/Vampnessa/Farobi, Farobi/unravel, Delphine/some poor chap or lass in my scumreads stuck with an inactive.

\

Noting the contradiction of Farobi/unravel being impossible as you say later on, and Delphine being more unlikely scum than the two of them

Dad and Vampnessa are wholly incompatible and likely on different teams and I'm betting, for now, that Dad is the town. Call it buddying all you want but I really don't see scummy behavior from him.

Where is this coming from?

On this note though, despite Dad putting forward that Evan was his biggest sus before the end of N0, I'm reversing on my earlier read and declaring them compatible again. Dad has been surprisingly weak on Evan recently, and this could easily be a symptom of knowing that your vote at the start of day doesn't matter, only your EoD vote does, and from the tone of what Dad's saying anyway, he's pivoting more towards town Evan. The only real pressury line he's put forward was pressuring ME for not voting Evan while remaining unconvinced.

Vampnessa, on the other hand, strikes me as fairly scummy. I said she was an easy target because she does come under a lot of pressure most games, whatever her alignment. But after seeing her behavior and interactions with Dolby in particular, I feel I may have figured this out.



This beaut right here smacks of straddling lines. "Yeah I think you may have some good points on Evan but you're going too hard lol just chill bro." Like wtf? Seems very much like she's trying to gain my confidence by putting up a facade of disagreement with Dolby, but also trying to not put off Dolby too much by saying he has good points. Like really if you think his points are correct then you should probably be voting me by now, not reacting like "oh they may be right but it's a reach." Really? If it's a reach then the points are not right to begin with. The phrasing makes little sense.

Honestly Dolby/Vampnessa as as scumteam is not only terrifying but likely, given just how much blatantly fake interaction I see between them. It seems pretty similar to what Dolby and I pulled off as scums in Hunger Games mafia, where we carefully tiptoed between agreement and disagreement throughout the game (ie not getting confrontational but avoiding each other almost), then when the time was right just start tunnelling the **** out of each other. Vampy and Dolby obviously haven't gotten to the "tunnelling the **** out of each other" part since it's early game, but there is definitely something weird going on between them. Makes perfect sense why Dolby would latch on to me and practically ignore Vampy in his analysis and sneak her into his nulls.

I'm gonna ignore what you say here for the most part since while you are linking her to me, your just pulling up a bunch of her posts and saying they link her to me when she's sheeping the general thread opinion (that I'm being myopic), but frankly after reading Vanessa incorrectly 4 times in a row (including a horribad vote last game) I'm not confident in my ability to read her. Antonio and Vanessa were both in my nulls because I didn't feel that strongly about either of them. Neither of them had made posts as scummy as yours or Farobi's

You do have one saving grace compared to Farobi though. Your at least making your presence known, he's trying to slink away.

Dolby's line about "townreading Jacob ain't gonna make me townread you" does feel overly dismissive and antagonistic when I knew my point was lameass anyway. It was a throwaway "RIP Jacob" line and I didn't want to air my townlean hunch until after N0.

This...
I don't even want to get into it, it's just bad play

Yeah I can? Whether you think it's right or not, I don't think you can completely discount the logic. Punchy's read is likely wrong; therefore Antonio is likely town. Frankly it's hard to find much Antonio has done that is directly town-beneficial but I am basing my read on instinct and what I know about how he plays. Punchy was just pointing things out that, in a vacuum may make him look scummy, but entirely lines up with what I know about Antonio's town play. Sorry if you don?t like that but *shrugs*

No, you can't. Your strugging to provide a justification for your Antonio read that let's you back out of it easily latter. The logic is nonexistant, and whether your right or wrong in the read is based on either how you decided based on what you know, or is just as likely to be right or wrong as any read on anybody else that you decide randomly. Frankly, I'm astounded that I'm the only one who has an issue with it, but it's clear that you're struggling to come up with a reason to "townread Antonio but not really", like you did in your first big post

Vampnessa is technically right in that Dolby does seem to make some good points that, when ignoring context of this game, makes me look bad. However she lacks the reasoning/does not go the extra step to actually form a conclusion about me, and that sets off my alarm bells. And my conclusion is this: I think it's pretty clear Dolby is trying to off me because he knows I'm really town. And since he's always good at making a case for practically anything, he dove through what I "usually" do to that end. Problem is that I'm waking up to that reality and not everyone else really believes him either given how tunnelly and reachy it is. I?m focusing more on scums this game given how there?s less of them to go around, and the towns are frankly rather obvious and half of them (Punchy, Temptations) are not playing very optimally in my view because they?re wrapped around the axle trying to destroy each other.

Oh nah fam
1. Why did I wait for D1 to select you
2. You're literally acknowledging that you're following scum meta here by saying that you're focusing more on scums
3. There's actually MORE scum this game than normal as a percentage, so even that logic is flawed
4. And most importantly, you're trying to build a false "town" consensus of you being town by stating that everyone thinks you're town and that my case is obviously reachy. This may be a tunnel, but it certainly isn't a reach given your blatant attempts to widen the PoE towards the start of D1, putting so much doubt on your TLs that they were worthless, lack of logic in making your reads, and disconnectedness from the game.

Now I know everyone and their grandma is going to paint this as me OMGUSing Dolby because he susses me, and Dolby is going to look at how much more analysis I gave on who?s scum vs. who?s town. But I do think that him being scum is a palpable explanation for the Dolby/Vampnessa behavior and I need to flesh out my thought process why. If I was really OMGUS'ing then I'd have scumread him after he started diatribing against me.

I mean yeah

The one hole in my Dolby read is how he's interacting with Farobi atm. I don't see much reason for scum!Dolby to off Farobi OVER me right now, especially given how much Dolby's focused on me. This opens up the possibility of Farobi not being scum and there being only two scums on the maf team, OR perhaps Dolby just views Farobi as too big of a liability and would use the death as cred to get me out the following vote? Not sure. Either way I think that with the lack of a clear town leader post-Jacob, Dolby's trying to slyly fill that void.

NOPE NOPE NOPE

There is SOOOOOO much wrong with this

1. Yeah, I really don't like this back off from Farobi. While I do want to say that Farobi is anti-aligned with Evan for BWing him, it might just be that Farobi wanted to follow his direction. Either way, Evan has no way to even null Farobi at this point, so he has to SL him, but this is debasement, a lot like when he tried to get a lynch off a cop scumcheck
2. Idk if you're paying attention, but Jacob def wasn't filling the town leader role. He was townread, sure, but he was going against the grain of the game and his reads didn't have much influence. Besides that, Dad's clear competition for that slot. Moreover, only SK killed last night, so that couldn't have been a me mafia plan
3. There's so much here that I think you're trying to fake a towntell. From two scum, to implied scum nightkill last night
4. Again, you're trying to get out of SLing Farobi

Farobi/Evan back on the table boys

Farobi/unravel is a fairly unlikely pairing in my sight due to them going after each other. It doesn't feel coordinated or distancing since unravel has been casting doubt on Farobi ever since he was inactive at the start. Unravel remains a big fat null for me tbh. If they were really a team, I can't see them pulling off such distancing through the course of the entire game. My farobi read is admittedly the most piggybacky of my positions but I generally agree that what he's done so far has just been blatantly meh and trying to please everyone instead of actually trying to find scums.

You kinda pull it back, but the denunciaiton is so lackluster. A bigger issue I have here is why aren't they anti-aligned for the vote

The problem is, are there two scums or three? In a game of 11, with the switching powers maf has, an 8-3 split vs. a 9-2 split...honestly both are feasible.

This is a fake dumbtell

My vote is probably going on Vampnessa or Farobi this phase, leaning much more towards Vampnessa though. And when she flips scum, you can bet Dolby should be next.

And yep, Evan/Farobi back on the table

Ok so lemme get this straight. I have an opinion of Antonio based on what I know about him and Punchy's behavior. Isn't the best, but it is in fact a read based on a hunch and prior knowledge.

You, on the other hand, can mention Antonio a good number of times without actually stating an explicit opinion on him except listing his name in nulls. The last time you've offered any analysis on him is when you discussed SCUM FILES, before you started going hard on me pretty much ever since. And that was really more expressing disagreement with his logic/post itself, not even telling us what you think about Antonio himself.

Like seriously, I've just gone through your posts and not once do I see you actually give reasons for him being town or maf.

And you expect THAT to be called a "real read"???

Like mine read may be **** in your eyes but it at least exists. I don't see any read from you at all except "scum files bad"...with no conclusion derived.

The ****ing irony of this whole post and especially the last line is mind boggling
But yeah, he's not nearly as scummy as you or Farobi

Also we're pulling quotes up

High key SK lean for this. This shows a real feeling of hopelessness and wanting to move on with their life that I've felt on multiple occassions (read BOTW and my surv claim in Generic). Moreover, assumes Punchy is town casually way to easily for someone who's been lightly going after him as a form of defense.

Also, I feel that unless the team is Antonio/Dad (which I can see), there'd be much more of a push against Antonio sus right now, because Punchy has just been going to town on Antonio

 

[Ghostkid]

do rqs and state thoughts on the game as you progress through reading through it

i didn't get Daphne's role yet

 

[Damniel]

i didn't get Daphne's role yet

What do you mean by this? I doubt you entered the game without a role

 

[Ghostkid]

Yes he is, and yeah, I know it’s rhetorical, but how am i the only one who has a problem with that

What do you mean by this? I doubt you entered the game without a role

im waiting for Bianca to give me her role till then i cant do much

- - - Post Merge - - -

oof i didn't mean to post that first quote

 

[Antonio]

You can still provide refs and opinions without a role.

 

[Ghostkid]

You can still provide refs and opinions without a role.

yea but what if im mafia if i dont know my teammates i can easily sus them then mess up any plan they have or if i have a certain role i need to base a stratagy around i rather not take risks til i know bianca just forgot thats all she is human and is probably busy ill be happy to wait til i get it theres no rush

 

[Damniel]

What kind of hosts formally enters in a player without giving them their role

- - - Post Merge - - -

yea but what if im mafia if i dont know my teammates i can easily sus them then mess up any plan they have or if i have a certain role i need to base a stratagy around i rather not take risks til i know bianca just forgot thats all she is human and is probably busy ill be happy to wait til i get it theres no rush

Reasonable enough

 

[Ghostkid]

its ok really its an honest mistake anyone can make it i sent her a message to her and i ought to get my role by tomorrow

 

[Damniel]

Dolby, interesting post. Is Evan you're greatest scum read/who you plan to vote for?

 

[Dolby]

Dolby, interesting post. Is Evan you're greatest scum read/who you plan to vote for?

Its between him and Farobi. I think both are somewhat compatible atm

 

[Damniel]

The interaction between Dolby and Evan has a lot to look at (I need more time to since I haven't been paying attention before tbh), but I wanted to further explain who I think we should lynch and why

Temptations- I still hold high suspicion for him. He is either anti-town, or just a bad player. While, for the most part, his posts contribute little to nothing, he has done two things that are extremely off putting.

In general, he has given very few reads. Only really talking to and about Farobi and Punchy. There are a lot of interactions between Punchy and him, most of which seem to be jokes. However, when he makes a giant and extravaganza read on him, he only ends it in a null read. With few other reads, this just shows that he has/is willing to give little insight on the players of the game. While his presence is there, his contribution is not, which is telling of a safer and quieter play.

And with the self vote. As I mentioned before, an intentional mislynch is a terrible idea.

How about this, everyone votes me off on day 1. I can enjoy smash bros instead of playing this game and prove to all of you that I'm not scum. Then once I don't flip, you can eat that hat as you promise. Once i'm lynched and it shows up Town, you can realize that your gut isn't legit facts.

I'll be happy to take the fall to prove a point because I'm getting annoyed between this war and I am craving for that picture of you with a hat in your month. If everyone is down for this, I sure am!

- - - Post Merge - - -

Also, hope you feel better punchy! <3

The excuse he gives in that it was to "prove punchy's alignment" is also such a bad reason that I believe the self vote was for another motive. It might have been WIFOM to get suspicion off of him. And it appears to have worked.

It might not have been my best idea (it was mostly in the moment). I'm still down for it though.

- - - Post Merge - - -



Do you think I'm town then? Because you said "a mislynch" not a possible mislynch. Wouldn't that go back on your other statement susing me?

The sentence above is oxymoronic. He admitted that a self lynch is not the best idea, yet still would do it after knowing it is a terrible idea. In the sentence below, it appears that he is trying to turn such simple wording against me as an act of defensiveness.

He is either anti-town or very very very bad town, and I'm inclined to believe it's the former. Someone did bring up the point that he could be SK, which might make sense as I don't really see him aligned with anyone yet for a scum team. He does ask this:

Does mafia know who SK is?

- - - Post Merge - - -

Let me google before I ask, sorry.

Which could be seen as trying to townslip since it's a question that can be easily looked up (as he soon admits)

Farobi- I know the general consensus is that his blatant coasting is sus. However, there are a few things I noticed that I wanted to add.

His first post after the RQS (I don't care for those) was

Don't know what to make out of N0 yet. I'm still getting in the swing of things and I'll be able to make better connections knowing the deaths by night's end. Antonio (temptations?) going hard on a null post is odd but his playstyle is unique to say the least, but this has been said a million times already so blegh. Don't have any leanings to place on other players yet so won't waste time on that. Mafia dont kill me tonight thx

- - - Post Merge - - -

I will drown out all suspicions until night ends so don't think I'm scummy for not responding! I'm down for a little chat however, to allow whoever is willing to allow an exploration of another's alignments better, as long as it's not spammy

I TR unravel, punchy, and evan. Between Dad and Dolby, I have no definitive read on either of them. Dad pushing for the idea of him being protected is odd since bianca explicitly mentioned there'd be only one kill tonight by the sk. His intentions give me mixed signals so it'll be nice to hear him out. Damniel also asks of this unclaimed protection so i'm not sure whether that's asking for actual curiousity or for the sake of appearing town. And for Dolby, he's generally suspicious and i cant read him well lmao so i'll just leave him on the same boat w/ Dad.

i can see a town thought process on evan in post #216, mainly cause i could follow a similar line of thought, but some people (dolby mainly) are picking out at it so it's either my reads are basic or dolby is an influential baddie. unravel and punchy are trs too because they're playstyle strike me as town atm, at least moreso than the rest of the players.

temptations and vanessa are a null for me. temptations i previously scumread with his inconclusive null case, but as of now it's not really something his teammates would allow of him in hindsight unless his teammates aren't active at that time. Vanessa is null because i dont recall her playstyle as much as mafia so i'll just have to read on her more. temptations more scummy than vanessa at least for me.

closest scum read i have is damniel, dad/dolby, and antonio. not super strong on them though but hey we got a week to figure this out lol

@ questions directed at me pages ago - i dont remember being in a scum team with tina from my memory. Also might've skimmed over some other questions directed at me so if anyone still retains any suspicions on me i can clear them out

The bolded part of these posts contradict each other. In the beginning he makes it out as if scum could kill N0, yet criticizes Dad for not being aware they couldn't. Especially since Farobi emphasized that it was clear SK was the only kill N0, his first post is completely faked. It seems to me like he was neither not reading closely when he made the first post and later saw a chance to patronize a player, or he tried to townslip but forgot what he was trying to do in the next post. Not sure what it could be, but these posts are very offsetting.

fite me irl

But for real, I highly suggest against meta reading me since I already stated before that I will be more inactive in this game than usual games. Mafia!Farobi lurks in the end/mid game while actively messing around at the start, look at my latest scum game for example. If I were mafia I would enjoy the town chaos but if you look at my posts I'm not as interactive as of late or gung-ho-ing my way through the early phase. It really is just a matter of activity and if I was read solely through that'll be pretty sad. I am less certain of your alignment after your eagerness to vote when I posted instead of directly engaging me in the thread, but I'd like to believe this is a town v town and a fruitless argument.

- - - Post Merge - - -

I hope this'll be an only early day phase thing cause b o i if this case against me drags for 5 days RIP free time lol

The bolded also reeks of a lazy play. It's a poor attempt that trying to explain himself. He may have actual reasons to be inactive, but he should ask for a replacement then instead of contributing little.

Overall, I agree with points made on Farobi, and in addition to the reasons above.

I struggle with who I find more scummy, but I'm placing my vote on Farobi since I think his behavior is less explainable if he was town

 

[amazonevan19]

I will respond point by point, best I can to Dolby's rebuttals, but it is Christmas Eve where I'm at now So I'm going to place my vote on Farobi simply because it's very hard for me to see him being town.

Unless we CFD Vanessa which I am also ok with.

Now cue Dolby trying to get the vote away from Farobi because he thinks I'm bussing Farobi!

 

[amazonevan19]

*cracks knuckles and toes*

Before I get into this, while I feel the dialogue between Dolby and I is very fruitful in terms of determining motives and thought processes of each other, I also don’t want to have our debate monopolize conversation or drive attention entirely away from (a) who we are voting for today and (b) other scum candidates. After the flip we’re going to know a lot more about my main susses.

Noting the contradiction of Farobi/unravel being impossible as you say later on, and Delphine being more unlikely scum than the two of them

Nope to the nope. That’s not a contradiction. I don’t say it’s an IMPOSSIBLE pairing. I say, and I quote, it’s “a fairly unlikely pairing.” I don’t think it’s likely and I stand by that. My list of potential scum teams is an exhaustive listing of ANY potential scum team, including ones I feel are very unlikely.

Where is this coming from?

On this note though, despite Dad putting forward that Evan was his biggest sus before the end of N0, I'm reversing on my earlier read and declaring them compatible again. Dad has been surprisingly weak on Evan recently, and this could easily be a symptom of knowing that your vote at the start of day doesn't matter, only your EoD vote does, and from the tone of what Dad's saying anyway, he's pivoting more towards town Evan. The only real pressury line he's put forward was pressuring ME for not voting Evan while remaining unconvinced.

Maybe all my smooth talking has charmed el Padre into switching his view. Who knows? I think he’s been more focused on proving Farobi’s scumminess, and all power to him there. Whether he views me as scummy or not, I don’t care, because frankly most any town sided player should be scumreading me by now, whether due to piggybacking Dolby’s tunneling or just not liking how I’ve played. I have not played well this game although I largely stand by the conclusions I formed in my last big post.

I'm gonna ignore what you say here for the most part since while you are linking her to me, your just pulling up a bunch of her posts and saying they link her to me when she's sheeping the general thread opinion (that I'm being myopic), but frankly after reading Vanessa incorrectly 4 times in a row (including a horribad vote last game) I'm not confident in my ability to read her. Antonio and Vanessa were both in my nulls because I didn't feel that strongly about either of them. Neither of them had made posts as scummy as yours or Farobi's

You do have one saving grace compared to Farobi though. Your at least making your presence known, he's trying to slink away.

Ok, fair enough, we do suck at reading Vanessa XD I really do hate the part in bold though. Like the transparency in “oh I’m ignoring your main argument” which is that you and her are blatantly teamed…and you’re brushing it off as “oh she’s just sheeping the thread.” Sorry, she’s sheeping YOU and I’m pretty damn sure why. Like the accusation I made is pretty important and you don't seem to care much about it. Maybe because you think no one will take me seriously, given how scumread or doubted I am atm, and your godfather armor? Or perhaps you just think it's ****? Which if you do, I don't see much reason why except "oh Vanessa's just sheeping, ignore the link to me!!!"

This...
I don't even want to get into it, it's just bad play

Agreed, I need to do better and should have at least put my hunch before he died.

No, you can't. Your strugging to provide a justification for your Antonio read that let's you back out of it easily latter. The logic is nonexistant, and whether your right or wrong in the read is based on either how you decided based on what you know, or is just as likely to be right or wrong as any read on anybody else that you decide randomly. Frankly, I'm astounded that I'm the only one who has an issue with it, but it's clear that you're struggling to come up with a reason to "townread Antonio but not really", like you did in your first big post

*sigh*

There’s TWO parts of my Antonio read and you’ve only spent your rebuttals addressing the one part which is admittedly definitely the weaker part. The two parts are as follows:

- To be as brutally honest as possible: Antonio plays pretty badly/nigh anti wincon as town a lot of the time. This isn’t a slight on him as a person but just a fairly annoying trend I’ve noticed when he’s town. From what I know of his “town meta” (if you can even call it that), he pulls this **** all the damn time. I am pretty confident based on past behavior that he’s bad town. Maybe if this continues to a greater degree, or I can sense a pairing like with scum!Farobi or scum!Vanessa, I’ll reconsider.
- Here’s the second part which is the only part that has been addressed: since I think Punchy’s logic on Antonio is wrong, then Punchy’s read (Antonio scum) must also be wrong. I really don’t get how this is so hard to understand.
Is Antonio scummy? Yeah, but does he do this as town a lot? Also yeah. So that, combined with my disagreement with Punchy’s argument, makes me townread Antonio.

Dolby’s been spending his time painting my townread as if my argument was EXCLUSIVELY the second part. Which is pretty sly of him to discredit me – pick the weaker part of my read, ignore the other and hope no one notices. We’re kind of going in circles on this point and Dolby will probably spin it as me being overprotective of my scummate, yada yada whatever. I would not be surprised if Antonio turns out to be SK with how antitown his behavior is but I think he’s just bad town and needs to step it up.

Oh nah fam
1. Why did I wait for D1 to select you
2. You're literally acknowledging that you're following scum meta here by saying that you're focusing more on scums
3. There's actually MORE scum this game than normal as a percentage, so even that logic is flawed
4. And most importantly, you're trying to build a false "town" consensus of you being town by stating that everyone thinks you're town and that my case is obviously reachy. This may be a tunnel, but it certainly isn't a reach given your blatant attempts to widen the PoE towards the start of D1, putting so much doubt on your TLs that they were worthless, lack of logic in making your reads, and disconnectedness from the game.

1. Da ****? Why WOULD you select me NIGHT 0?? Day 1 is obviously when you’re going to push for me to die…this question is senseless

2. I’m absolutely town and absolutely trying something different than what I usually do, given the different nature of this game.

3. Touche although I was going with raw numbers. Perhaps your approach is better given how large the factions are relatively speaking

4. What the hell you’re putting words in my mouth again. The consensus is anything BUT “Evan is town.” Seems most people either have me null or scumlean with the exception of Farobi and Dad (Dad kinda sorta?) What people seem to largely agree on is that your case is indeed reachy.

Also how can I be called “disconnected from the game” when you stated a few lines before how much more involved I am than Farobi? I was disconnected at the start but that was due to forgetfulness and not maliciousness, and now I am much more involved. This seems like you're trying to take behavior at the start of the game to discredit me now. Scummy. Me no likey.

NOPE NOPE NOPE

There is SOOOOOO much wrong with this

1. Yeah, I really don't like this back off from Farobi. While I do want to say that Farobi is anti-aligned with Evan for BWing him, it might just be that Farobi wanted to follow his direction. Either way, Evan has no way to even null Farobi at this point, so he has to SL him, but this is debasement, a lot like when he tried to get a lynch off a cop scumcheck
2. Idk if you're paying attention, but Jacob def wasn't filling the town leader role. He was townread, sure, but he was going against the grain of the game and his reads didn't have much influence. Besides that, Dad's clear competition for that slot. Moreover, only SK killed last night, so that couldn't have been a me mafia plan
3. There's so much here that I think you're trying to fake a towntell. From two scum, to implied scum nightkill last night
4. Again, you're trying to get out of SLing Farobi

1. My backing off was based on a false assumption that there could be only two scums. It was dumb and silly of me to not review the OP more in-depth. Having known there’s three scums, I am near certain Farobi is one of them now.

2. I suppose re: Jacob. When I read up it definitely seemed he was widely townread and thus I assumed he was leading things, but now that you mention it, his actual analysis wasn’t being widely adopted. Still I think he’s the closest thing town had to a leader N0 aside from Dad. (Which btw, I find your wording on Dad fascinating – seems like it was carefully worded to not scumslip, because if you outright stated Dad was town leader, that heavily implies you know Dad is town right?).

Also I know only SK killed last night. What I’m saying here is that with Jacob’s death, you’re trying to take advantage of the situation. Didn’t say you orchestrated or caused that death at all.

3. I…don’t even know how to go about faking a towntell in this situation. You’re going to say I’m dumbtelling but legit dfk here. I did not read the OP carefully enough when I made the speculative comments about how many scum there were and then posted asap when I realized that…

4. Well I voted Farobi now so whatcha gonna do about that boiiii

The ****ing irony of this whole post and especially the last line is mind boggling
But yeah, he's not nearly as scummy as you or Farobi

You fina-****ing-ly gave an actual opinion and reason why for your read in the same damn post I’m responding to now. Up until then you had pretty much no opinion. I can get if you don’t think he’s as scummy as Farobi or me. But to try and make it look like your read was better than mine when it didn’t even exist until basically just now is lmao worthy. You may be right, I may be wrong, but you're implying that a non-read was better than a read with some backing to it...pretty disingenuous.

 

[PunchyTheCat]

I'm trying to be wary about this because I don't want to completely sheep to anything, but I do find Evan incredibly scummy, from reasons listed in Dolby's post and because he townreads antonio JUST BECAUSE HE THINKS MY READ IS WRONG. I do want Antonio's opinions on others, especially Evan, Dad, Farobi, and Dolby.

 

[Ghostkid]

1. What is your timezone? EST

2. How active will you be this game? off and on tho on the first we have to turn the Wi-Fi off for a month

3. Preferred pronoun? him/his

4. Do you prefer being town or being mafia? town i love to figure out whos mafia

5. How do you handle pressure? terribly

6. Which player(s) in this game can you read the best? thats a tough one

7. Which player(s) in this game can best read you? no one

8. How many games have you played? a few

9. Who would you fearkill N1? i believe N1 is over

thats all i can do right now cus i have to go to a holiday thing with family

 

[Dolby]

Nope to the nope. That?s not a contradiction. I don?t say it?s an IMPOSSIBLE pairing. I say, and I quote, it?s ?a fairly unlikely pairing.? I don?t think it?s likely and I stand by that. My list of potential scum teams is an exhaustive listing of ANY potential scum team, including ones I feel are very unlikely.

More likely than scum Delphine though? Waffles has been going after Farobi all day, and you described the pairing as fairly unlikely, and listing them being scum as more likely than Delphine being scum isn't at the very least weird.

Maybe all my smooth talking has charmed el Padre into switching his view. Who knows? I think he?s been more focused on proving Farobi?s scumminess, and all power to him there. Whether he views me as scummy or not, I don?t care, because frankly most any town sided player should be scumreading me by now, whether due to piggybacking Dolby?s tunneling or just not liking how I?ve played. I have not played well this game although I largely stand by the conclusions I formed in my last big post.

I like how you're talking more about the you/Dad connection with my grievance with you, that I see no grounds to say Dad/Vanessa are anti-aligned. Regardless, certainly struck close to home

I also love that 180 from "people are waking up to it being tunnelly and reachy and people aren't believing him" to "everyone should be SRing me"

Ok, fair enough, we do suck at reading Vanessa XD I really do hate the part in bold though. Like the transparency in ?oh I?m ignoring your main argument? which is that you and her are blatantly teamed?and you?re brushing it off as ?oh she?s just sheeping the thread.? Sorry, she?s sheeping YOU and I?m pretty damn sure why. Like the accusation I made is pretty important and you don't seem to care much about it. Maybe because you think no one will take me seriously, given how scumread or doubted I am atm, and your godfather armor? Or perhaps you just think it's ****? Which if you do, I don't see much reason why except "oh Vanessa's just sheeping, ignore the link to me!!!"

I think given my earlier view on you/Farobi being anti-aligned you know what I think of that justification, that it doesn't hold water because scum will sheep town more than their teammates because it allows them to start a pocket. Though it doesn't lack logic like your Antonio read. The reason that I ignore this is that there's nothing really linking it to me, and you even said that you need to work on the bridge between the two of us. Frankly, I just see a sheep.

*sigh*

There?s TWO parts of my Antonio read and you?ve only spent your rebuttals addressing the one part which is admittedly definitely the weaker part. The two parts are as follows:

- To be as brutally honest as possible: Antonio plays pretty badly/nigh anti wincon as town a lot of the time. This isn?t a slight on him as a person but just a fairly annoying trend I?ve noticed when he?s town. From what I know of his ?town meta? (if you can even call it that), he pulls this **** all the damn time. I am pretty confident based on past behavior that he?s bad town. Maybe if this continues to a greater degree, or I can sense a pairing like with scum!Farobi or scum!Vanessa, I?ll reconsider.
- Here?s the second part which is the only part that has been addressed: since I think Punchy?s logic on Antonio is wrong, then Punchy?s read (Antonio scum) must also be wrong. I really don?t get how this is so hard to understand.
Is Antonio scummy? Yeah, but does he do this as town a lot? Also yeah. So that, combined with my disagreement with Punchy?s argument, makes me townread Antonio.

Fair enough, and part of why I didn't outright scumread him for Scum Files TM (and the fact that he was getting pushed a lot), pity you didn't state this earlier

Dolby?s been spending his time painting my townread as if my argument was EXCLUSIVELY the second part. Which is pretty sly of him to discredit me ? pick the weaker part of my read, ignore the other and hope no one notices. We?re kind of going in circles on this point and Dolby will probably spin it as me being overprotective of my scummate, yada yada whatever. I would not be surprised if Antonio turns out to be SK with how antitown his behavior is but I think he?s just bad town and needs to step it up.

OH **** OH **** THEY FOUND OUT OH GOD THEY KNOW THAT IVE BEEN PAINTING A FALSE PICTURE OF EVAN BY MISREPRESENTING HIS READ

Ok so here?s my thoughts
- I think punchy v temptations is def still town v town. Punchy is trying to scumhunt, Temptations has been offering good defenses. Even though I think Punchy is wrong I don?t think his presses are particularly scum-motivated. They seem genuine. The one thing that makes me think Punchy could be scum is how he mentioned Temptations? supposed scumslip without stating what it was, and then when it was revealed it was just a bunch of hullabaloo. But idk. While I don?t want to write either of them off completely from being scum, I think Punchy is doing just a slightly better job at appearing town. Dolby did make an astute point about Temptations? Punchy analysis. He seemed to start strong but then it fizzled out and his conclusion didn?t match the evidence he brought.

I need to go take care of some business now and there?s some people I still need to look at more closely, but rn if I had to choose I?d say Damniel and Dolby are likely scums, mayyybe Temptations? But I don?t see why Dolby would be acting the way he is if Temptations was scum, except as distancing perhaps.

- - - Post Merge - - -

Actually wait, punchy never did explicitly state what the scumslip was, did he? Maybe I read too fast but all I recall atm is that he just kept saying it was obvious to anyone who caught it? Then disregard the part where I said Temptations' scumslip was underwhelming. Technically speaking it is so underwhelming that it's not even evident to some of the game's most experienced players!

This is the first time Evan mentions his thoughts on Temptations. We literally see "Even though I think his presses are wrong they aren't scum motivated." He says that it's TvT than backs off and says Antonio is his potential third scum.

The only logic presented here with regard to Temptations is the "scumslip" and "I think Punchy is wrong"

The basis I had for townreading Antonio at that time was not so much his own posts, but how Punchy behaved towards him. It very much struck me as Punchy going after a townie really early like he sometimes does. And his case also reminded me of how I have often felt Antonio is scummy simply because of how he likes to play and express his thoughts - but he usually ended up being town. So, sure, Dolby, I didn't have much to go on with Antonio's posts at all. But I had a lot more to go on based on Punchy and my intuition and experience with Antonio's playstyle.

"It very much struck me as Punchy going after a townie". The entirety of the justification for TLing Antonio in Evan's two formative posts is that he thinks that Punchy is wrong

Only stuff that's included is before I criticize him for this. Giving credit where it's due, he does temper that with that Antonio has a naturally scummy meta (which should make him null read), but the section both starts and concludes by making Punchy's wrongness the dominent part of his justification (and it took up more space anyway), with the Antonio meta just thrown in as an afterthought

Ok so lemme get this straight. I have an opinion of Antonio based on what I know about him and Punchy's behavior. Isn't the best, but it is in fact a read based on a hunch and prior knowledge.

You even acknowledge it later as your primary justification

4. Well I voted Farobi now so whatcha gonna do about that boiiii

*cracks knuckles*

I'll just double down. Frankly I think both of you are good lynches and I don't trust Dad in the slightest now that he's backing off from you the closer we come to night end

You fina-****ing-ly gave an actual opinion and reason why for your read in the same damn post I?m responding to now. Up until then you had pretty much no opinion. I can get if you don?t think he?s as scummy as Farobi or me. But to try and make it look like your read was better than mine when it didn?t even exist until basically just now is lmao worthy. You may be right, I may be wrong, but you're implying that a non-read was better than a read with some backing to it...pretty disingenuous.

High key a possible SK and been considering it for some time. I don't think he's mafia due to the anti-aligns, but if he is he's probably with you/Dad. I literally quoted the post I made summarizing my thoughts on Antonio around 190 and you just go out of your way to ignore it to push this narrative

 

[Geoni]

I'm around and reading to catch up tonight. I see more walls between Evan and Dolby and Dolby is going more nitpick case > analysis then he's probably scum if my Hydra with him gave me any insight on how he solves as town. Certain people have ghosted and I'm a hypocrite for saying that but Punchy in particular just parked on an Antonio vote and shouldn't be given too much of a pass here.

Let me actually read though.