Mafia Wrath of the Egyptian Gods - Kingmaker (Game Thread) Endgame

[toadsworthy]

hello my angels i've got some real bad news but i have read absolutely nothing of this game!!!!! good news is i'm off today so i'm going to settle down with some hot chocolate and snacks and read through it all (although heads up i'm gonna skim like i have never skimmed b4) expect to see me in a couple hours ly

Mog I originally wanted to pick you for my love, but you dropped too soon

 

[Biancasbotique]

MOG IS BACKK! YAYY

are you still scumleaning me

- - - Post Merge - - -

Mog I originally wanted to pick you for my love, but you dropped too soon

so you picked Vanessa as your lover? lol

 

[Jacob]

whats your justification on lynching Tom?

I'll just redirect you to my case, to after which I was stuck between Tom and Waffles:

Isolation on Tom:

Writing these before I ISO
- He's got 76 posts. Majority of them I have admittedly been skimming. So his scum lean is flimsy, and I think this iso will actually help me a lot in determining my stance on him.
- Tom is a good player, my reads might be wrong because I am not! Please give me you're thoughts on my ideas...


I tried looking back and forward a few posts to find the context where this came from, so if I'm misreading this one I apologize.
Otherwise I completely disagree. Wanting to replace out of a game can reveal so much about a person's role and intentions, usually subconsciously. Always worth giving it context and attention.



I'm against this thought process, as I personally don't like to wait until I'm up for lynch to disclose my thoughts or reads. I also don't find it very motivated in helping find scum.



See above. Always more effective to drop thoughts so we don't have to scramble at EoD in choosing a lynch candidate, rather than waiting. Kind of a shady post...

--

--
Again shady


Biggest hangup about this is the consideration of Policy lynch. Tom has had posts before this one explaining that some people's death would reveal more information than others (Unless that was someone else). Hayden and I weren't mentioned as one of those people. I don't care that I was mentioned for policy, but the fact that he wanted to Policy me as one of the most town read people in the game, including Dolby as King, rubs off as an underlying way to get me out of the game. Eh whatever, policy lynches are weird. I was reprimanded for suggesting one against Zendel one game, so I usually assume its sus to bring up now.

[His Reads List]

Too big to quote. He only scum read one person without slight null. I wanna say thats sus, but I guess it's understandable. He was advocated an Evan lynch more than Sensai which I find a little strange because Sensai was a harder scum lean to him.
EDIT: just saw a post saying "Evan or Sensai" so I guess it was a coin toss between the two for him. Fair enough.

- He's super against claiming, which is interesting. In a game where he isn't really scum reading a lot of people to begin with a claim is slightly helpful. I don't agree with random claims though, sorry Toads... But if it helps shortening the scum pool, strategic claiming or claiming before getting lynched is a toss up more than a dead weight situation.

All rest isn't enough for me to construct thoughts around. A lot of prodding, panda scum reading, and basically the same play as D1, a little more focused though.

I have to say I did find more shady posts than I thought I would. I had Tom as scum lean, and that is where he is staying. There hasn't been a single post where I've been like, woah I agree, and I'm not getting a trusting vibe.

Will consider Tom as a lynch candidate. Keeping it all blunt, I can't beat around the bush, "maybe someone else instead!" for everyone. There's sketchy content here and I'm willing to rid the game of it.

*havent proofread. Don't mind spelling errors *

After I did this, a few pages later Tom posted:

Yeah, I?m bloody pissed. I?ve been ill since Sunday and I keep hoping to get better, but it ain?t happening. I want to out so you boneheads can get a competent and more alert player in the ring, but Nester here has already made several deals with the devil to replace the folks he already has so I?m not gonna make him do it once more. I?m pissed because despite doing about the same amount of content as Trundle, he?s skirting by because he kissed ass with you. I?m gonna be super pissed to if come tomorrow my ass gets lynched and somebody goes ?wait this doesn?t feel right hardly anyone is here to push back against this? and I get lynched because y?all thought I tried manufacturing conversations with Panda. I talk scummy, I play scummy, but goddamn I?m not being the arrogant pompous ass I normally am when I am mafia. I?m irritated too by the fact that I?m as universally scumread by everyone minus Heyden and Bianca, why the hell you folks aren?t bothering to dissect all my interactions with other players? What?s stopping you from figuring out who I?m supposedly bussing, who I?m not bussing, who Im protecting and whatever nonsense. Instead you?re wasting effort going back through my posts doing the same tired cases Jacob and Kat and I?m sure Tina and Tae have done. Another damn case on me is helpful to nobody and the fact some of you keeping wasting time on it is insulting to town.

And this demonstration pushed him over the edge for me, and this was my reasoning for why:

Ok, I feel really bad that this isn't that enjoyable for you Tom, I'm sick too, I get it. but the whole point of the game is you literally can't trust anyone. I know you know how important it is to trust ourselves first, then act accordingly in thread as a group.

I feel bad for scum reading you, but that's only making me scum read you harder. Kinda makes me feel like such a dick idk why... In that last post alone, you demonstrated:

- A crack
- ATE
- Self awareness

And then I left like 19 hours for people to discuss before I lynched him.

 

[Arstotzkan]

@Bianca my computer is lagging out so terribly rn, so can't quote you, but that is a case on Dolby, AKA I'm pointing out all the bad posts he's had. If you have any posts in particular that you're thinking of as really good, feel free to quote and I'll tell you my opinion of them

 

[Biancasbotique]

@Bianca my computer is lagging out so terribly rn, so can't quote you, but that is a case on Dolby, AKA I'm pointing out all the bad posts he's had. If you have any posts in particular that you're thinking of as really good, feel free to quote and I'll tell you my opinion of them

I see that those are cases against him but I just find it odd for you to point out that you cannot find Dolby's good posts. You must have read all his good posts so you could just have said I am posting posts that I think are sus, but instead you said "you cannot find them"...

 

[Heyden]

Where the hell is kingmaker, pls don't leave us with less than 24 hours
Pls don't king someone who'll lynch Bianca or Panda thx

 

[tae]

Where the hell is kingmaker, pls don't leave us with less than 24 hours
Pls don't king someone who'll lynch Bianca or Panda thx

can we lynch waffles then? pls.

 

[Arstotzkan]

I see that those are cases against him but I just find it odd for you to point out that you cannot find Dolby's good posts. You must have read all his good posts so you could just have said I am posting posts that I think are sus, but instead you said "you cannot find them"...

Where did I say that? If you're referring to me talking about his D2 posts, I said those were good, but I couldn't find his reads and I'd make a further post on it if I found them/sussed it

 

[Biancasbotique]

I'll just redirect you to my case, to after which I was stuck between Tom and Waffles:





After I did this, a few pages later Tom posted:



And this demonstration pushed him over the edge for me, and this was my reasoning for why:



And then I left like 19 hours for people to discuss before I lynched him.

That crack to me appeared as town crack. I townread Tom the moment he said he is against claiming, as I am totally against it especially If I am playing town. But you just said that "a little claim" is helpful....and it is only day 2

- - - Post Merge - - -

Where did I say that? If you're referring to me talking about his D2 posts, I said those were good, but I couldn't find his reads and I'd make a further post on it if I found them/sussed it

That's why I am finding it hard to believe you cannot find them but still think they are good.

But in fairness, there are instances that I am looking for something and I couldnt find it but I do take the time to sift through the filter. But you were able to sift through the filter and find bad posts from Dolby

 

[Arstotzkan]

That crack to me appeared as town crack. I townread Tom the moment he said he is against claiming, as I am totally against it especially If I am playing town. But you just said that "a little claim" is helpful....and it is only day 2

- - - Post Merge - - -



That's why I am finding it hard to believe you cannot find them but still think they are good.

But in fairness, there are instances that I am looking for something and I couldnt find it but I do take the time to sift through the filter. But you were able to sift through the filter and find bad posts from Dolby

I'm not saying his reads are good - I'm talking about his general content D2.

 

[Biancasbotique]

Hmmm okay, I still think she's scum especially with how I caught her out last night when she pretended she was too lazy as an excuse.

Tom lynch? Ofc I preferred Waffles. If I'm gonna be king I'd look at waffles but if the majority wants Kat/tae/f11 then sure idm

what makes you so sure that Panda is not scum?

 

[Chris]

Just took a look through Caxnival and realised the approach and tone in her posts is very similar. Do you (or anyone really) know of any games she has been scum in recently?

Okay she posts similarly when she was cult leader in the Ladybug game so I'm not feeling any better on her.

 

[Jacob]

That crack to me appeared as town crack.

Well then I guess this is where we differ. It's easy to say something like this after he's dead and we know he was town, its a tactic called Hindsight Bias

 

[Heyden]

what makes you so sure that Panda is not scum?

The same reason townread you, both your playstyles are 'scummy' when in fact it's just your town play. Panda has been mislynched in like every game so far and I'm sure a mislynch is bound again if we go after her. I want Kat/waffles/f11/tae, whatever town wants I'll do unless it's you/panda

- - - Post Merge - - -

gonna power nap cos it's 4am lul
hopefully someone's kinged by then

 

[Dolby]

Alright so a preface for this post: atm, I'm hoping Kermit flips red but if she doesn't, then POE narrows down scum to me, Dolby, or Tina as the "GF" representation for scum. I know I'm not scum, but I can't show you guys my role PM so you're gonna have to trust me when I say it's Dolby or Tina. Dolby made a post that got my attention recently so I ISO'd him and holy **** idk how I missed this. So without further ado:

This seems really AtEy honestly. I get that you're hoping that Kermit flips red, but the entire purpose of this post seems to be to cover your bases if Kermit actually did get modkilled. I'd actually like to see what post "caught your attention" or even why you think that it's so bad, but the fact that you mention showing your role PM is extremely AtE and honestly seems like a drop in skill. There's no purpose to include it in there, plus, we know that all the "townie" roles are generic already, so it really doesn't help.

Point 1: RQS
So I think most of us already know about this point so I'm not gonna go too in-depth here but Dolby's question of "How do you feel about the crowning" feels like a jab to try to get more information on Kingmaker. Town has no real reason to ask this. When Tina pressed him later on his reasoning for asking this, Looking back, this reasoning is incredibly weak. How would what people would prefer as King give insights for reads in any way whatsoever?

Kat this is like really weak

First of all you know me, in semi-open and open games, I typically have everybody's role, as scum, by D3 at latest. I wouldn't need to bluefish, I have no reason to bluefish. This seems like an egogasm but it's true

Second, do you seriously think that I would think, as scum, that the real kingmaker would fall for my "bait"? Honestly, I just asked that question so that I could get an idea of who people townread the most, when more than a few of them would say "none" or decline to answer

Third, getting the kingmaker honestly doesn't help the scum team much, I've already explained why scum would focus on the more tranditional way of winning (gg once town<mafia), and the kingmaker is honestly pretty low-value to town, especially if they kinged "scum Dolby" D1.

Point 2: Questionable reads (focused on day 1, still need to look at the other days but I'm getting burnt out tbh)

Spoiler

So to start off a comparison, here's Dolby's most recent reads list before a questionable post of his: But then comes along another one of his posts which leaves me extremely confused: Note that Dolby still scumread f11 post 630. I don't see a change like this being very realistic on his preferred lynch, ESPECIALLY when this is his justification. How do they make sense? You just said she was extremely afk and noncontributing, and now her actions are justifiable? There's no way.

Spoiler

A lot changed between there, I'm pretty sure between 630 and 884, f11 pointed out that there were a lot of people kissing my ass, which I honestly was just accepting, and you yourself used it as justification to tr her, and Tina as well.

Additionally, I want to point out how I was in the scumteam list with Evan/Bianca in post 670. He scumread people more than me in the GF list so you'd figure he'd put me there due to me fitting better with Evan/Bianca, but then he immediately posts "nah, she wouldn't fit with Evan/Bianca". So why am I there when Dolby sussed Tom/Cleb more? It makes no sense.

I ran through A LOT of paranoid scum team theories D1 I feel, and I remember that I had linked Evan to you, due to your weak scumlean of him when LITERALLY everyone was hard sussing him. I honestly don't remember why I included Bianca with the two of you, it probably was a post before about Evan and how she felt about him, but I was imaging a lot of scum team links. In addition, I had mentioned D1 that I wasn't especially comfortable with you, and if you think that I'd take such a cheap shot as scum, then retract it instantly, you're mistaken. Also, I'm pretty sure that Ness announced that he would replace Cleb by then, which immeidatly set him to null.

Back to post 884 though, there's a lot that's sketchy here. Ryumia, whom Dolby didn't even mention in his lynch pool and was null in his previous reads list, went to top scum candidate based off an Evan town flip, and he never even mentioned a Ryumia/Evan connection.

Probably should've mentioned it earlier, but I wasn't ordering people within my reads, and a lot of the time, people at the top were there because I was thinking of them at the time.

Also, he townreads Byngo for good content, when Byngo had like no content at all. Her only **** was questioning Toads for "carefully constructing RQS answers" and trusting Toads' TP claim. There was no content to trust there, Dolby's guilty of the very thing that he himself questioned Waffles over earlier.

I stand by what I said earlier, Byngo's content in the first hour before she replaced out was good, especially for the first hour, and made me want to townlean her there. I actually think that she was in like my first list with any reads at all. Moreover, have you ever played with scum!Byngo? Honestly, she really isn't the best scum player

Point 3: D1 EoD

Spoiler

Looking at EoD D1, Dolby's posts just feel really removed? Like he stated he was going to go for Evan, but from there it felt like he was taking on a more passive observation role. Like rather than look into Evan himself, most of his posts either were asking what others thought (ex: 733) or was answering questions (ex:735) rather than hunting for answers himself. Not to mention that he left for 10 minutes in the last 20 min of day. Not to judge your real life Dolby, I'm sorry if you really had something, but for you to drop what's going on in thread for 10 minutes at such a critical time feels really scummy ngl. But tl;dr: his posts here felt distant and not engaged with the situation, and him leaving just serves as additional evidence for that.

Nothing here except a cheap shot for leaving for 10 minutes.

Point 4: Trundle Kingship

Spoiler

Dolby knew how Trundle was so hellbent on Tina being scum, so a Trundle king would essentially mean a Tina lynch. However, he posts he "doesn't know how he feels about Tina regarding Evan's flip". First off, that's inconsistent with post 884, where Tina is one of his strongest town reads, but even taken at face value, that's saying he'd be ok with someone getting lynched that he's unsure about rather than someone who he's plenty sus of. Red flags there.

Want to make something clear here, I trusted Trundle to go with the majority, and I think that beforehand he had admitted that his sus was beginning to go away. My main motivation was that I trusted him to be town. This is probably the only point here that's actually good and worth holding against me. And for the last time, my reads weren't ordered.

Ok so this is prob gonna serve more as a reply than as a formal point, but I think Dolby's being a bit sus with his points there.

@Tom/Panda point Dude I scumread Panda since Day 1. Literally look at my first reads post. You act like I'm trying to "set them up" - I would have had to try to do it this entire time. You're making it look like it's my first time trying to tie it together. And when I asked on several occasions why not Panda/Tom, directed at you, you didn't answer. So :eyes:

@f11 point Remember Day 1 when I townread f11? I remembered I did, but I forgot why, hence why she's the lowest on that list. I'm not gonna exactly fault you for that point, but the Tom/Panda thing? Hell yeah that's sus af on your end mdude.

If you're refering the to post that I'm thinking of when you say that, that wasn't even about you, that was trying to see who fit better with the three people I was certain were scum, Panda or f11. I was isolating everything I could find in your filter about Panda and f11, and nothing was meant to be held against you for that, but purely to compare who between the two of them was more likely scum. Now, if you mean something else, honestly don't know what it would be, but I would like for you to point it out. I tried to find the second half of your D1 reads and honestly still can't, I just remember that I couldn't find them, and that first point was merely the first thing I found relating to Panda that I could find in your reads (actually think I changed the order to make some point or another there, but I forgot what it was). Tbh, this is kinda ironic because your accusing me using the same logic you accuse me of in point 2

- - - Post Merge - - -

The same reason townread you, both your playstyles are 'scummy' when in fact it's just your town play. Panda has been mislynched in like every game so far and I'm sure a mislynch is bound again if we go after her. I want Kat/waffles/f11/tae, whatever town wants I'll do unless it's you/panda

- - - Post Merge - - -

gonna power nap cos it's 4am lul
hopefully someone's kinged by then

Do you think that tae would post this D2 as her first set of reads with waffles and f11 as teammates?

i'm STILL trying to get **** together bc i joined late,
its overwhelming but i'm working on it i promise. pls believe in me. :<

my top few i'm sus of are:

sensai mostly bc he was glow's strongest scumlean and i feel like new players would be intimidated by her reads which might have lead to her N1 death. this is more so a gut feeling than anything, may change im not 100% set. i'm in the process of ISO-ing his posts though bc im still working on getting caught up so stay tuned pls. <3

ITYW is all over the place today, and i'm not certain if this is their play style because some have said they play like this but others are completely certain there is something fishy. so once again im in the process of ISO-ing posts for more in depth analysis on them. need to ISO and pick things apart.

f11 less meme-y this game, still always popping in and out like always but the fact that they're less out there and meme filled makes me anxious? this is more a gut feeling than anything and f11 is always a "third party role" play style and it's always hard to read.

 

[PandaDarling]

Ok I won’t Lynch Dolby I’m just paranoid about him I think... but I do wanna be Kinged I’m off work for the next couple days and I’ll do my best promise.

 

[SensaiGallade]

are you still scumleaning me

Well yes. If you didn't witter on so much about Ryumia and Trundle being scum then I would've thought otherwise. That and your lack of contribution is also a factor.

If you want me to change my mind, then you gotta show some dedication to this game unlike you have so far. Obviously you have a life to live outside this game and I respect that, but more of a contribution would be so much nicer Bianca.

 

[Biancasbotique]

Well yes. If you didn't witter on so much about Ryumia and Trundle being scum then I would've thought otherwise. That and your lack of contribution is also a factor.

If you want me to change my mind, then you gotta show some dedication to this game unlike you have so far. Obviously you have a life to live outside this game and I respect that, but more of a contribution would be so much nicer Bianca.

um i did..i keep saying im town. where are your reads?

 

[Chris]

After some reading I think I'm town-leaning f11 and Bianca at present.

 

[SensaiGallade]

um i did..i keep saying im town. where are your reads?

Saying your town is different than proving it. I won't hold anything against you for it though.

D2 reads - http://www.belltreeforums.com/showt...Game-Thread)&p=7678857&highlight=#post7678857

I'll have to look into you more when I get the chance. All I want is you to contribute more and I'm glad you're finally doing it.