Why do you think they're doing that to spite you? Just wondering.
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I just got here. So... I don't know what happened yet. Need to read back to see what happened here.
Mafia Call the Ships to Port: Game Thread - END GAME - TOWN VICTORY!
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
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I just got here. So... I don't know what happened yet. Need to read back to see what happened here.
Lol im susing karen pretty hard everyone is like changing votes to trundle when i have a feeling karen is scum...because I KNOW SHES SCUM AND SHES LURKING TRYING TO FLY UNDER EVERYOBES RADAR AND PEOPLECAREXIGNORING HER!
amanda1983
Senior Member
I'm considering voting for Trundle because of the following :
- quotes in post # 2791.
- his odd little "reaction test" about surrendering as Town (which Ness already pointed out would never have worked if legit anyway) - not very suspicious in-and-of-itself, but it stood out to me at the time.
- a couple of his posts to throw sus on people have struck me as opportunistic af and not really Town-sided - he never explained his thinking behind them, hasn't seemed interested in pursuing anyone he's openly sussed, or really, anyone at all that I can remember.
I'll go back through his posts and confirm the context of the quotes glow posted, along with the posts I was already concerned about. It's still REALLY early in D4 to be trying to lock in votes as far as I'm concerned, but as of rn Trundle is my top SL.
(I'm still working on my reads now I've caught up, I haven't forgotten I need them posted ASAP.)
I don't think they're doing it to spite you... :T They probably think that Trundle could be mafia. I was sort of getting that vibe too.
Trundle ISO:
In his first serious post of the game, calls Tom scum for no reason and states that he can read him best. Looks like a joke, but keep this post in mind for the future. Tom made a solid 2 posts up until this point that were basically ****posts saying "Lynch Ness" and the other was a dad joke.
Calls Dolby town for basically no reasoning, keep this post in mind for later as well. I can see scum!Trundle using this as a way of buddying with Dolby, because honestly who doesn't feel the tiniest bit intimidated as scum with a rabid town!Dolby on the loose.
This post gave basically no real reasoning for ANY of these reads with the exception of the Fireninja and Toads posts, which are really the only well (understatement) explained reads he's made for basically the entire game. Once again, Tom had made like 4 posts up until this point, and while it was a bit suspicious, it makes no sense to have scum leaned him for those posts that weren't even necessarily scummy until it was shown that Tom was intentionally dodging the thread.
1. Bookmarking that he read me and Toads as TvT interaction for a later post coming up.
2. I can kinda get behind what Trundle said here, but I find it grossly weird how he was saying he thought Tom was suspicious when there was barely any content to be said on Tom in the first place (again, 4 posts from Tom up until this point.) Tom is always inactive Day 1 no matter what so I didn't see that as very AI anyway. There wasn't any meat to the Tom suspicion and yet Trundle's entire point here is "joking Day 1"?
I kinda like this since I had the exact same thought process when reading Punchy's ISO there. It's a little strange reading back on this though, since we now know that Punchy genuinely had a reason to want to "change his playstyle" (lol) I can see scum!Trundle preying on an easy target.
I believe this is the only legitimate time that Trundle ever once mentions Kammm, and since I see Kammm and a possible scum at this point, I would be unsurprised if the two of them are teamed together.
Basically admits that he's trying to get on Dolby's good side here, but I don't really understand what the scum motivation could be from posting this.
Yeah I dislike this. He has spent his time up until this point calling out people like Tom, Ryumia, and Punchy to end up putting his vote on the Antonio wagon that isn't even for the reasons that we had been in the thread other than "He's inactive and a lurker therefore he got my vote". If you're so suspicious of Tom, why not just put your vote on him?
This is where the part where I brought up the "Ness and Toads is Town vs Town" post as something to book mark for later as well as the Ghostkid read:
What exactly changed here for the Ghostkid read to go from probably town to a scumlean?
Funny how Trundle puts Tom in bright red yet again for next to no reasoning stated than his previous "Jokes on Day 1" point.
God I really don't want to go into detail about why this read on me is so weak but whatever. This entire scumread of me is completely reliant on him saying "Mafia WIFOM", which barely even works as a read because WIFOM is incredibly hard to read and is just an idea on a table without any evidence to support it. If you were going to scumlean me there was a more effective way to have done it that probably could have gotten me to townlean trundle if he had just pointed out things that I was doing strangely up until that point. I admit that I was a little crazy at the time, but Toads literally townread me from the blow-up and I had no reason to fear kill him for that. The only point of this read that can remotely hold any water is him thinking that I'm coasting, but even then, no evidence was provided.
and that is his entire argument summed up in two words right there.
Can we all look at this and realize that Trundle has still not said ANYTHING on Tom this entire game other than "Eh he jokes too much as scum on Day 1". THERE ISN'T A READ HERE. TRUNDLE LITERALLY JOINED THE TOM WAGON AND TRIED TO TAKE CREDIT AS ONE OF THE "FIRST" TO SCUMLEAN TOM.
Said that he was going to do an in-depth analysis of his scum reads and never provided.
Very interesting how he specifically called Runeraider a Townie here. Also really don't understand the motivation behind this post; whats the point in saying this? Trundle hasn't implied that he even REMOTELY thinks Vanessa could be mafia up until this post. In fact he even said that he was Townleaning Vanessa in his shamelessly unhelpful reads list from earlier.
One of his few recent-ish posts that I like.
Kinda feels like the tone here is townlike.
Tbh I kinda like it that he was the first to point this out, but at the same time if Trundle is scum then it makes sense for him to say this because mafia obviously didn't want to kill Punchy. I want to say that this was an easy attempt at casting extra suspicion towards Punchy, but I do see the town motivation behind it a bit more.
To give credit where credit is due, Trundle did ensure that he was the last person on the Punchy train. That shows town guts if anything.
This is pretty hypocritical of Trundle because he was saying this in reference to [this post by iLoveYou] when she was trying to defend herself that she wouldn't bus the Scum Joat, a valuable role on Day 1. Yet Trundle literally provided any reasoning to be scumleaning Tom in the first place than "He jokes as scum on D1". Again, you can't act like you gave a good reasoning to be suspicious of him because you never said anything about him other than that one post on Day 1.
Would be unsurprised if the only reason he said this was to try and get easy towncred. I mean seriously would anyone actually follow through with "Can Town surrender"?
Didn't Trundle say earlier that he was townreading Runeraider earlier, interested in hearing why he thought this.
His partner died, why wouldn't he claim to clear his name? We had the evidence clear as day that FN and Rune were connected.
TLDR: Trundle hasn't made a single active push this entire game with the closest to it being the Tom read, yet he tried to act as if he was justified in scumleaning Tom when he never provided a single good reason to be on his wagon in the first place than "He jokes on D1 as scum". Really disliked how he based a scumlean on me around Toad's death when it honestly doesn't make any coherent sense to scumread me based off of a death, with the only justifiable reason he can provide is "Mafia WIFOM". Little bits of 1-liners that are scummy as well.
In conclusion: Scumleaning because he has some redeemable qualities to him that felt kinda townlike. I'm not opposed to lynching him right now.
In his first serious post of the game, calls Tom scum for no reason and states that he can read him best. Looks like a joke, but keep this post in mind for the future. Tom made a solid 2 posts up until this point that were basically ****posts saying "Lynch Ness" and the other was a dad joke.
Calls Dolby town for basically no reasoning, keep this post in mind for later as well. I can see scum!Trundle using this as a way of buddying with Dolby, because honestly who doesn't feel the tiniest bit intimidated as scum with a rabid town!Dolby on the loose.
This post gave basically no real reasoning for ANY of these reads with the exception of the Fireninja and Toads posts, which are really the only well (understatement) explained reads he's made for basically the entire game. Once again, Tom had made like 4 posts up until this point, and while it was a bit suspicious, it makes no sense to have scum leaned him for those posts that weren't even necessarily scummy until it was shown that Tom was intentionally dodging the thread.
1. Bookmarking that he read me and Toads as TvT interaction for a later post coming up.
2. I can kinda get behind what Trundle said here, but I find it grossly weird how he was saying he thought Tom was suspicious when there was barely any content to be said on Tom in the first place (again, 4 posts from Tom up until this point.) Tom is always inactive Day 1 no matter what so I didn't see that as very AI anyway. There wasn't any meat to the Tom suspicion and yet Trundle's entire point here is "joking Day 1"?
I kinda like this since I had the exact same thought process when reading Punchy's ISO there. It's a little strange reading back on this though, since we now know that Punchy genuinely had a reason to want to "change his playstyle" (lol) I can see scum!Trundle preying on an easy target.
I believe this is the only legitimate time that Trundle ever once mentions Kammm, and since I see Kammm and a possible scum at this point, I would be unsurprised if the two of them are teamed together.
Basically admits that he's trying to get on Dolby's good side here, but I don't really understand what the scum motivation could be from posting this.
Yeah I dislike this. He has spent his time up until this point calling out people like Tom, Ryumia, and Punchy to end up putting his vote on the Antonio wagon that isn't even for the reasons that we had been in the thread other than "He's inactive and a lurker therefore he got my vote". If you're so suspicious of Tom, why not just put your vote on him?
This is where the part where I brought up the "Ness and Toads is Town vs Town" post as something to book mark for later as well as the Ghostkid read:
What exactly changed here for the Ghostkid read to go from probably town to a scumlean?
Funny how Trundle puts Tom in bright red yet again for next to no reasoning stated than his previous "Jokes on Day 1" point.
God I really don't want to go into detail about why this read on me is so weak but whatever. This entire scumread of me is completely reliant on him saying "Mafia WIFOM", which barely even works as a read because WIFOM is incredibly hard to read and is just an idea on a table without any evidence to support it. If you were going to scumlean me there was a more effective way to have done it that probably could have gotten me to townlean trundle if he had just pointed out things that I was doing strangely up until that point. I admit that I was a little crazy at the time, but Toads literally townread me from the blow-up and I had no reason to fear kill him for that. The only point of this read that can remotely hold any water is him thinking that I'm coasting, but even then, no evidence was provided.
and that is his entire argument summed up in two words right there.
Can we all look at this and realize that Trundle has still not said ANYTHING on Tom this entire game other than "Eh he jokes too much as scum on Day 1". THERE ISN'T A READ HERE. TRUNDLE LITERALLY JOINED THE TOM WAGON AND TRIED TO TAKE CREDIT AS ONE OF THE "FIRST" TO SCUMLEAN TOM.
Said that he was going to do an in-depth analysis of his scum reads and never provided.
Very interesting how he specifically called Runeraider a Townie here. Also really don't understand the motivation behind this post; whats the point in saying this? Trundle hasn't implied that he even REMOTELY thinks Vanessa could be mafia up until this post. In fact he even said that he was Townleaning Vanessa in his shamelessly unhelpful reads list from earlier.
One of his few recent-ish posts that I like.
Kinda feels like the tone here is townlike.
Tbh I kinda like it that he was the first to point this out, but at the same time if Trundle is scum then it makes sense for him to say this because mafia obviously didn't want to kill Punchy. I want to say that this was an easy attempt at casting extra suspicion towards Punchy, but I do see the town motivation behind it a bit more.
To give credit where credit is due, Trundle did ensure that he was the last person on the Punchy train. That shows town guts if anything.
You're known to bus your teammates
This is pretty hypocritical of Trundle because he was saying this in reference to [this post by iLoveYou] when she was trying to defend herself that she wouldn't bus the Scum Joat, a valuable role on Day 1. Yet Trundle literally provided any reasoning to be scumleaning Tom in the first place than "He jokes as scum on D1". Again, you can't act like you gave a good reasoning to be suspicious of him because you never said anything about him other than that one post on Day 1.
Would be unsurprised if the only reason he said this was to try and get easy towncred. I mean seriously would anyone actually follow through with "Can Town surrender"?
Didn't Trundle say earlier that he was townreading Runeraider earlier, interested in hearing why he thought this.
His partner died, why wouldn't he claim to clear his name? We had the evidence clear as day that FN and Rune were connected.
TLDR: Trundle hasn't made a single active push this entire game with the closest to it being the Tom read, yet he tried to act as if he was justified in scumleaning Tom when he never provided a single good reason to be on his wagon in the first place than "He jokes on D1 as scum". Really disliked how he based a scumlean on me around Toad's death when it honestly doesn't make any coherent sense to scumread me based off of a death, with the only justifiable reason he can provide is "Mafia WIFOM". Little bits of 1-liners that are scummy as well.
In conclusion: Scumleaning because he has some redeemable qualities to him that felt kinda townlike. I'm not opposed to lynching him right now.
amanda1983
Senior Member
I don't think any of us are forgetting or ignoring Karen/Kermit. I'm sorry it looks like your contributions are being ignored (I'm referring to your other recent posts, too). That's not what is happening. They're noted. And being looked into or bookmarked to come back to, etc.
We have a lot of time to go in D4 still, and we're not just trying to find + lynch Mafia - due to the stakes, we need to gain as much value and information as possible out of the players remaining. For right now, pressure has been applied to Karen via repeated call-outs in this thread as well as multiple votes. She'll respond, and until then we've kinda hit a brick wall in that tangent from my PoV. We need info, and we aren't getting anymore from content she's provided (there isn't much and it's all to ambiguous to make sense of without further content from her from my own checking).
Looking into Trundle, however has a lot more potential to help us work out how remaining Mafia are rn.
Does that make sense? It's not about whether Karen is Mafia or not for right now because we need to keep the end-game in mind. Our new Win / Con just doesn't leave us the luxury of finding obvious scum and lynching them like usual - we need to find the other's, too, in order to avoid MLing if at all possible.
FireNinja1
inactive: please read "about" tab on profile
Also, note Trundle’s shift from “FN is town” in his earlier posts (the barebones readlist, the “FN is being an edgelord” post) to “this claim is scummy”.
amanda1983
Senior Member
@ Heyden - Initially I was TLing Vanessa pretty strongly until post # 2511, and I was suspicious of Dad and Evan before then for the way they reacted to Vanessa bringing up the (perfectly reasonable and valid imo) Punchy scum-slips.
Since then, I've been more ambivalent about Vanessa's alignment, putting her at null. The D4 stuff from her has me even more concerned, and she's on my to-do list right after Trundle + glow (my top SLs as of now).
As for Kammm, damn is she good if she came in to her first game with a Mafia role and has been able to play as well as she has. I read her as Town before, and I'm not quite clear on why she's being seen as sus now (I know you've mentioned her a couple times now but I was rushing to catch up so I didn't take it in yet sorry), but I'm going to be looking again at her, too, because we can't afford to let her remain TR if it's not deserved.
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**** that's messy. Basically :
Vanessa went from a strong TL to null and now slight SL and I'm going back to see if she should be higher on my SL list.
Kammm was a TR for me but I'm going back to see why people are sus of her and see if I still think she's Town.
Since then, I've been more ambivalent about Vanessa's alignment, putting her at null. The D4 stuff from her has me even more concerned, and she's on my to-do list right after Trundle + glow (my top SLs as of now).
As for Kammm, damn is she good if she came in to her first game with a Mafia role and has been able to play as well as she has. I read her as Town before, and I'm not quite clear on why she's being seen as sus now (I know you've mentioned her a couple times now but I was rushing to catch up so I didn't take it in yet sorry), but I'm going to be looking again at her, too, because we can't afford to let her remain TR if it's not deserved.
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**** that's messy. Basically :
Vanessa went from a strong TL to null and now slight SL and I'm going back to see if she should be higher on my SL list.
Kammm was a TR for me but I'm going back to see why people are sus of her and see if I still think she's Town.
i'm sad u think i'd play suboptimal as mafia
also you addressed me literally minutes ago saying "why give mafia all these ideas" which makes no sense if you think i'm mafia
Also I kinda noticed
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btw this game is kinda broken not gonna say why obviously but scum can easily win rn
Kermit had already replaced Mog a few hours before, so if they were scum buddies wouldn't Tom know Mogyay was already out of the game? Unless it's some intentional mind game Tom is trying to play but I don't think he's the type of person to concuct something like that idk
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btw this game is kinda broken not gonna say why obviously but scum can easily win rn
amanda1983
Senior Member
I don't think your play is SubOptimal, actually. Despite how sus of you people (not just Dad) have been for ages now, you're still alive and have only just become a viable lynch candidate now, and with stiff competition on that front at least from my PoV. Keeping Town running around confused with you still alive as Mafia seems pretty Optimal to me.
As for my post # 2797 asking you WHY you keep giving Mafia ideas / advice like this, which was sent about an hour and a half prior to the quote you replied to - I would like for you to answer the question, please. Other's (Vanessa off the top of my head) have pointed out you keep posting this kind of stuff, and I haven't seen you explain why at all yet.
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But wasn't Tom gone for a lot of the day and only came back in the last 10mims or something? So he might not have checked in with his team first, just posted? Idk, I'll have to look at the timing again.
Uh, Idk WTF you're referring to with that last part, but ya, please do not say why. My goodness this game just goes from "fun" new development to the next.
i'm speaking from purely a mechanical POV, not strategy. unless you think i'm mafia with exactly ness, then you think i played suboptimal by sending in an extra KP for no reason. i mean, you could say i did it for WIFOM or whatever and that'd be at least sorta legitimate? but to say that it's not suboptimal at all is just false.
there's literally 3 clears because of the move mafia made lmao. if you think i'd risk that regardless of my own position then uh..ok. also, you said it yourself: i'm widely sus'd so why would i purposefully narrow down the pool? no amount of WIFOM is worth 3 town clears.
i originally said it because when i was reading through the thread, i thought it'd be only 1 kp since nobody was outing as hit. when ness outed after already posting something else it immediately made me doubt his claim and confirmation bias hit me like "ya ness is def smart enough to fake a hit". but it was all sort of just instinctual paranoia and the likelier scenario is that mafia just didn't realize that they can opt to withhold KP
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also, sussing trundle and using my quotes as a reason to sus trundle and then sussing me shows a rather odd disconnect in your reads
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WIFOM is wine in front of me
which is a term for reverse psychology
just saving ya'll a google search
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can some1 else do the math to figure out if NL is better
if not i'll do it during my lunch break tmrw
I still kinda don't like glow and whoever gave her two votes must specifically hate me but this...
THANK YOU, PREACH.
THANK YOU, PREACH.
ah, i missed this post:
1. because people think that if you don't care about sacrificing yourself that it looks town. but blues shouldn't be willing to sacrifice themselves unless they're a role that can take hits or someth like that
2. if blue, why do it in the first place knowing you'll need to back out of it? i mean, she's either doc/bg/voter and i don't see the advantage of "sacrificing" yourself to begin with considering two of those are protective roles...
3. who said i wasn't giving karen a chance to claim? i mean tbh i backed off karen a lot until that point because i used to find karen easy to read.
There has to be at least one decently experienced person on scum team. I already figured there was based on the bluesniping in the beginning but the fact that they tried to take out two people who a majority of the players townread (and succeeded) makes me feel very sure about that. This is exactly how you need to be playing as scum in this situation. Punchy didn't throoow throw the game but he made it significantly easier for mafia to win.
That being said, glow's point against Ness feels like a stretch tbh. If he is mafia, he's doing exactly what glow suspects he is doing because if mafia used one KP and had one of their own claim to be saved then this person could be given the means to lead and that is one mislynch down and one to go.
Buuut you would have to be sure that there is no bodyguard or doctor in order to make that gamble and right now I don't see how mafia could know given all of the night results that have happened so far. His play has shown some healthy doubt, and kind of reminds me of him in BotW. Ness seems like a logical kill over me and glow if she is town if only because they expect the lynch to be between one of us. But I will be interested in how far glow wants to push this idea against Ness.
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succeeded with one*
That being said, glow's point against Ness feels like a stretch tbh. If he is mafia, he's doing exactly what glow suspects he is doing because if mafia used one KP and had one of their own claim to be saved then this person could be given the means to lead and that is one mislynch down and one to go.
Buuut you would have to be sure that there is no bodyguard or doctor in order to make that gamble and right now I don't see how mafia could know given all of the night results that have happened so far. His play has shown some healthy doubt, and kind of reminds me of him in BotW. Ness seems like a logical kill over me and glow if she is town if only because they expect the lynch to be between one of us. But I will be interested in how far glow wants to push this idea against Ness.
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succeeded with one*
