Is it morally wrong to think that another country (or countries) are better than the United States?

[princess.looking.for.frog]

Me and my family are from Vietnam (which is considered a communist government, but this is arguable to some people. For the sake of this, I'm going to consider it communist for now) and whenever I hear someone say that I kinda roll my eyes and say "yeah suuure you would". I've gone to Vietnam before many times to see my family and it's an amazing place I would love to visit more often, but I highly doubt it's a place where westerners (especially from first world countries) would want to stay there for too long, let alone live there for the rest of their lives and face the true reality of living there. I grew up with some collectivist values and understand the everyday culture of Vietnam from my parents, so I can imagine myself living there for a while, but not forever.

I get exactly what you are saying! It is really up to personal experiences and values, and even if communism as a whole is bad some countries would be different. Vietnam leaders might be better, and probably better than Stalin and Lenin. If you do a simple search of them you will see they are probably some of the most terrible people in the world to ever exist. Though Russia and Belarus aren’t communist now, they were influenced by the USSR because they were part of it.

You probably see Vietnam from a day to day perspective, but I think if you simply look at their values in government it might give you some more information to form your opinion. So I think, you should research more about the Vietnamese government, and their trade, economy and election to see how the country is on a deeper level.

If you look at the government ideology, it is Marxism-Leninism, and a search about it might show you what the government of Vietnam based their government system off. All communist countries fell and they do some evil things. For example, Marxism-Leninism is very sexist and regimes confiscated private businesses and landholdings. In the USSR it went through a few ideologies and what happened because of them is intense. In the process of spreading money around, the government constantly stole, leaving everyone poor. My family had to always bribe people, even to get a nice hospital to have their babies born. Just think of Chernobyl, you probably heard of it and the governemt told no one it happened. My family lived near by and now have many health problems including iron deficiency, and if the goverment simply told everyone to stay inside or evacuate, everyone would of been a lot better. This might hint that Vietnam might hid things form their people.

I totally respect your opinion, but that was a bit of info you might find interesting!

 

[tessa grace]

Lets be real

america kind of sucks

but i'd rather live in the suburban city that i live in than france which is loaded with cigarettes everywhere

 

[Millysaurusrexjr]

SOme countries (okay, maybe a lot of countries) are just objectively better than America. And I say that as an American. It's not morally wrong. It's not saying that Americans are less than human or anything.

America just needs work.

 

[Mick]

This is the best poll I've ever seen

Having an opinion should never be morally wrong. Actually quite the opposite, I think denying people the right to have their own opinion is morally wrong no matter how dumb and baseless theirs may be.

Also, no country is perfect. The 'best country' would depend on what criteria you use to rank the countries by. For the things that I care about, I believe that I live in a better country than the US. But that's entirely subjective. Again, the act of having an opinion itself should never be wrong.

I think the problem here is blind patriotism, which seems to be common over there. I believe it should be possible to love your country while still being critical of the way things go in it. You can absolutely call something good or great while being open to the possibility that some things could be improved. Because if nobody considers ways to make things better, then how will you ever become (or stay) the best?

 

[Katzenjammer]

*applauds @Mick's post for saying things she didn't mention so eloquently*

 

[visibleghost]

Having an opinion should never be morally wrong. Actually quite the opposite, I think denying people the right to have their own opinion is morally wrong no matter how dumb and baseless theirs may be.

there are plenty of morally wrong opinions. Opinions that directly hurt others, for example.
Are they still allowed to exist? yes. But that doesn't mean they aren't morally wrong. It is morally wrong (and not to say impossible) to forbid people from having certain opinions, but opinions seldom come as just opinions, they are often expressed. And expression of opinions can most definitely be both morally and legally wrong.

Freedom of thought and speech does not mean freedom to run rampant and hurt others with your thought and speech.

Not that you said that was okay (I'm just like saying that morally wrong opinions do exist) or that "I don't like the USA" is a morally wrong opinion or anything, opinions like that aren't really morally loaded because they're relatively harmless and just opinions rather than means of oppression and hate.

 

[nightglow]

Last night, I was shamed by my parents, mainly by my dad, for saying that I believe France is superior to the United States. My reasons for this are quite simple, actually, despite me being an American:

• France has a much better standard of living, especially when it comes to its healthcare system.
• It has a far more educated populace, unlike the US (and, I'm sorry, but the fact that so many American right-wingers are poorly educated emboldens these sentiments in myself, with many being ignorant on basic history and current events).
• Its election process seems superior to what the United States has-there is no electoral college (which has no parallel whatsoever to other democratic nations), and instead, there is a two-round vote, which the first round, if no one gets a majority, determines who will be the top two candidates that will be the presidential candidates in the second round (Brazil and Argentina have similar systems).
• On the same subject of French politics versus American, the French political parties offer more choice ideologically, whereas the Overton window in the US is clearly very small-not only do we essentially have nothing more than a two-party system and have for nearly two and a half centuries, but the Democrats are basically in the same position ideologically-if not to the right of-French and other European conservative parties, with the Republicans by and large, I am well aware, being seen in Western Europe as extremist parties that, in France, only Marine Le Pen's National Rally could compare to.
• France just simply historically has a rich culture and one filled with the arts, one that the United States simply cannot keep up with. Perhaps American culture has been better-exported, but even then, that's a recent trend that arguably didn't happen until after World War II, whereas France's influence in the arts has existed since the 18th century.
• As a bisexual guy, it's worth noting that France beat the United States by two years on same-sex marriage legalization, and the US was well behind many other developed nations on this.
• France's handling of the coronavirus pandemic hasn't been the greatest, but the response from the United States has been atrocious, and we have one-fifth of the world's cases.
• Clearly, with Donald Trump refusing to concede an election loss to Joe Biden, while I have more faith in the American people now with Biden's election victory, Trump has made a mockery of American democracy, and I still maintain, for this reason, that electoral politics in France are superior to its American counterpart.
• Freedom fries. That point I will leave at that.
• Without France, there would be no United States-French support for the US in the Revolutionary War is how it became independent from Great Britain, after all.

What it is, these discussions came into light because I was heavily criticized by my parents, as well as my uncle on my mom's side (her older brother) for having the possible (just a viewpoint they were afraid I might have) viewpoint that I thought Japan was superior to the United States as I was, and still am, a Japanophile. This was way back in 2012, however, and I was only 12 years old then. This was a point that, honestly, because I was heckled for hours by my family for, I still am not over emotionally eight and a half years later-I know that doesn't sound good, but it was not the kind of behavior I thought a 12-year-old child should face from his own family members, especially ones as close in blood and relationship as his parents. At the time, just being a 12-year-old kid, I never once did think about a country "being superior to another", I just simply was a 12-year-old boy who liked Japanese culture, and I still do now that I'm 20 years old. However, it seriously led me to raise questions-something that still boggled my mind as late as now-about what constitutes a "superior country", and if it's quite as cut and dry as a lot of Americans who consider themselves "patriotic" and "nationalistic" seem to be.

My parents consider it morally wrong to consider any country, in any way, better than the United States, which is why I ask. When I mention that of my two parents that got upset with me over this, it was my father in particular who lashed out at me in anger-after saying this in a phone conversation with him, he yelled at me.

Also, keep in mind that this belief I have is a fairly recent one. I'm not saying that the United States can never be better than France-but maybe, to at least be as good as it, it could take a thing or two from France and other countries-such as Japan-and learn a thing or two. My mother says that what makes us so great is our military, but is military strength really everything?

No it isn't morally wrong. You are just wishing a better life for people in general. There is nothing wrong with that. Infact you are willing to acknowledge and not turn your head to flaws and issues within your country. It is so important to be realistic in life.

I am also an American. This belief of it being considered morally wrong or even traitorous to consider any country, in any way, better than the USA was HUGE in the 90s. I remember it being crammed down my throat not only at school and home, but even on Tv. Often in school I remember (don't want to offend anyone here) adults bringing up a certain country as an example of how great we are because we aren't like them. How we can grow up to be anything and not have to work our lives away with 10-15 hour work shifts. How we get pensions and great health insurance provided by workplaces. This is a good laugh now. I have worked those kinds of hours and so have many other 90s kids but in the 90s I guess most jobs had 8-9 hour work shifts. And the rest of that is non existent. Infact alot of elderly lost their pensions sadly.
I also feel like Americans go over board on the patriotism and nationalism to where it isn't that any more.
I too also feel like there are other countries out there who appear to be doing better or are far superior in how they handle certain things. That is probably because they are. USA is literally a baby in the world. It is super new for a country. Other countries have had TONS of experience on what works for them and what doesn't, wars and breakthroughs for more equality and respectfulness of human beings. There are really alot of things the USA could learn from older countries. We have lots of room to grow. I do feel like we do alot of stuff wrong or wobbly.

 

[Mick]

there are plenty of morally wrong opinions. Opinions that directly hurt others, for example.
Are they still allowed to exist? yes. But that doesn't mean they aren't morally wrong. It is morally wrong (and not to say impossible) to forbid people from having certain opinions, but opinions seldom come as just opinions, they are often expressed. And expression of opinions can most definitely be both morally and legally wrong.

Freedom of thought and speech does not mean freedom to run rampant and hurt others with your thought and speech.

Not that you said that was okay (I'm just like saying that morally wrong opinions do exist) or that "I don't like the USA" is a morally wrong opinion or anything, opinions like that aren't really morally loaded because they're relatively harmless and just opinions rather than means of oppression and hate.

Oops, yep, may have phrased that poorly and I obviously cannot disagree. There absolutely are opinions that are so morally twisted that they should probably not be shared, let alone be acted upon. What I said should only apply to the harmless opinions, haha.

 

[ting1984]

I'm not very religious myself, but you make a good point.

Thanks. It interests me that you live in the South, which is usually quite religious along the Baptist/Pentecostal lines (though a Midwesterner by birth and since young and older adulthood, I nonetheless grew up in Tennessee, so--trust me, I know!), and that your family still regards the United States as morally superior, so I wonder if there's something socioreligious/nationalistic that influences their opinion? Since I mostly identify now (and previously) with a more upper midwestern, Lutheran perspective (albeit conservative), I don't have the same nationalistic views--and especially not so given the Scriptures I indicated. I know that many conservative Southern, Baptist/Pentecostal types are more "jingoistic" than us German American Lutheran types--who respect the country, but didn't arrive here until later, who view the Bible a little more assiduously and within proper historical contexts, and thus don't have the kinds of connections and views of "Merika best EVAR" Southern Baptist/Pentecostal types tend to see it as. (I might add, Southern American theology tends to be influenced by either a postmillennial Calvinist framework, or else a Bapticostal premillennial Dispensationalist framework, which regards the modern United States and Israel more prominently in eschatological matters, with which upper Midwestern, amillennial conservative Lutherans view with skepticism. We also tend to view the Revolutionary War as unjust for a variety of reasons...Lutherans, whether conservative or liberal, have a number of historical and theological views that don't really fit with the Bapticostal majority found in many regions of the South.)

 

[nintendofan85]

Thanks. It interests me that you live in the South, which is usually quite religious along the Baptist/Pentecostal lines (though a Midwesterner by birth and since young and older adulthood, I nonetheless grew up in Tennessee, so--trust me, I know!), and that your family still regards the United States as morally superior, so I wonder if there's something socioreligious/nationalistic that influences their opinion? Since I mostly identify now (and previously) with a more upper midwestern, Lutheran perspective (albeit conservative), I don't have the same nationalistic views--and especially not so given the Scriptures I indicated. I know that many conservative Southern, Baptist/Pentecostal types are more "jingoistic" than us German American Lutheran types--who respect the country, but didn't arrive here until later, who view the Bible a little more assiduously and within proper historical contexts, and thus don't have the kinds of connections and views of "Merika best EVAR" Southern Baptist/Pentecostal types tend to see it as. (I might add, Southern American theology tends to be influenced by either a postmillennial Calvinist framework, or else a Bapticostal premillennial Dispensationalist framework, which regards the modern United States and Israel more prominently in eschatological matters, with which upper Midwestern, amillennial conservative Lutherans view with skepticism. We also tend to view the Revolutionary War as unjust for a variety of reasons...Lutherans, whether conservative or liberal, have a number of historical and theological views that don't really fit with the Bapticostal majority found in many regions of the South.)

I actually used to be very religious... It's not exactly a moment in my life I'm proud of. I was quite homophobic then (despite being in the closet about my bisexuality), and I basically, in all honestly, regarded people such as LGBT, liberals, and non-Christians (so I was also conservative politically at the time, nearly alt-right TBH) as inferior. Again, it's not a moment I'm proud of, and while I'm honest with a lot of people about it, it kind of hurts me inside to bring it up... There were a lot of people I hurt and I regret it so much...

As I've grown less religious, honestly that's one thing I admire about Western Europe, religion doesn't seem to be a big deal there...

 

[ting1984]

I actually used to be very religious... It's not exactly a moment in my life I'm proud of. I was quite homophobic then (despite being in the closet about my bisexuality), and I basically, in all honestly, regarded people such as LGBT, liberals, and non-Christians (so I was also conservative politically at the time, nearly alt-right TBH) as inferior. Again, it's not a moment I'm proud of, and while I'm honest with a lot of people about it, it kind of hurts me inside to bring it up... There were a lot of people I hurt and I regret it so much...

As I've grown less religious, honestly that's one thing I admire about Western Europe, religion doesn't seem to be a big deal there...

Thanks for telling me about your background. It's indeed rare to find people in the Southern U.S. who weren't around some expression of the Christian faith.

That being said, and I think your experience confirms these generalities -- the problem I have with the faith of so many Southerners is it's very ill-informed about religious history, and even the Bible itself (exegesis, hermeneutics, etc.). There are many Baptists and Pentecostals who think loud emotionalism and moralism (particularly regarding abortion and homosexuality; other aspects of morality are usually overlooked) are what the faith is about, because that's all they've been exposed to, and there's always peer pressure to conform to what the majority believe and do wherever one lives. As a result, they often lack knowledge about how Christians lived and believed prior to the formation of the United States, they lack awareness of how the faith is practiced in other parts of the world today -- and even other parts of the United States. They might be vaguely aware of Catholicism, for example, but they don't know anything about the Eastern Orthodox. And they might know that Luther helped bring in the Protestant Reformation, but they wouldn't be able to tell you exactly what he was protesting, and why.

However, even beyond the South, I must admit there's a problem everywhere in the United States with conservative Christians tying almost everything to politics. Regrettably, I even see it in the Lutheran churches at times, too, and we're supposed to follow the principle of Two Kingdoms (which is why Lutherans are usually the least politically inclined of the Protestant denominations). So even though we're not supposed to "rank" sins, there's always lots of talk about abortion (and to a somewhat lesser extent these days, homosexuality) but little to none about premarital heterosexual relations, divorce, adultery, and other moral concerns -- which have grown increasingly accepted in the church. And that's because abortion is a political issue whereas the others aren't anymore. This is also how so many evangelical Christians (8 in 10) rationalize voting for someone as immoral as Donald Trump even though they decried the same sins in Bill Clinton over 20 years ago.

TL;DR: Americans tend to do too much talking about politics and faith, and not enough in emphasizing how their own example and their own families look, or what the Bible actually says about given topics. The best recent example of this I can think of was a Lutheran woman over a decade younger than me, lecturing me on Discord a few months ago about needing to have children because that's (allegedly) God's highest calling for women. However, she herself was unmarried with no children, and the Apostle Paul said singlehood was the highest calling, better than marriage (he's very clear about this at the end of 1 Corinthians 7). So not only was she theologically incorrect, she was exhibiting hypocrisy. Stuff like this gets tiresome, but it's all too prevalent in American conservative church circles, and no one does anything about it.

 

[sleepydreepy]

No I would not say it is morally wrong. Morals don't really have anything to do with that.

In general, every country has its "pros and cons" and I think its perfectly fine to criticize those countries/your country and compare various political or social problems with other countries who you think are handling things better. Personally I don't like to think of certain countries being "superior" to others because to me that sounds kind of....idk how to describe this...maybe power-hungry? Its like how racism is appealing to certain people because it gives them a feeling of being more powerful and worthy than who ever they are being racist against. Maybe that's a little extreme, and I'm totally not saying that's you at all (you make some very good points in your post that I can agree with), just a random thought I had with using the word "superior."

 

[Hypno KK]

No? Who cares?

All countries have positive and negative things about them, nothing wrong about acknowledging that a country may have a better living standard or other positive things about it compared to your own.

 

[nintendofan85]

No I would not say it is morally wrong. Morals don't really have anything to do with that.

In general, every country has its "pros and cons" and I think its perfectly fine to criticize those countries/your country and compare various political or social problems with other countries who you think are handling things better. Personally I don't like to think of certain countries being "superior" to others because to me that sounds kind of....idk how to describe this...maybe power-hungry? Its like how racism is appealing to certain people because it gives them a feeling of being more powerful and worthy than who ever they are being racist against. Maybe that's a little extreme, and I'm totally not saying that's you at all (you make some very good points in your post that I can agree with), just a random thought I had with using the word "superior."

I'm not saying French people are superior to Americans. It's just that the living standards in France seem superior.

 

[sleepydreepy]

I'm not saying French people are superior to Americans. It's just that the living standards in France seem superior.

yup, yup, totally understand (and agree!)

 

[Fjoora]

If the reason why is valid, of course it's not morally wrong to believe that. Not for a second.
However, some people don't quite understand how comparable a lot of countries are to us, or for that matter, what liberties they lack.
I definitely believe some countries are better than the United States, 100 percent, but I wager that the ones I would list are a bit different than the ones other people would. Grass is always greener shouldn't cloud people's judgement.

 

[Cakecrazy909]

of course not. i don't get people who swear blind to the patriarchy.

 

[saucySheep]

uhhh, yes. Nobody is better than anybody else. We all have different ways of doing things but we're all humans, we all make mistakes.

Thinking that you're better than somebody else is also a mistake.

 

[scaredlittlebug]

I would be careful about putting France on too much or a pedestal. The anti-Muslim sentiment there is out of hand. In think anti-semitism is still a big issue as well, but I'm from the US as well.

I hope you can have space outside of your parents' influence because nationalism is unhealthy and leads to too much hatred. I'm glad you've been able to develop your own opinions even though american propaganda is just... everywhere.