Is suicide a human right?

[Nightmares]

I too think it's "selfish". It's really hard to explain why I think so without people being mad at me... I'm not saying that I don't know how it feels or that I don't have any experiences with it. But this is my personal opinion, and I don't mean this in a mean way. It's really hard to explain, but when people commit it, they only passes their pain onto someone else. That's what I mean by it being selfish, even tho that isn't even the right word to use for it, but I don't what other words to use, sorry. I have chosen to live with the pain instead of passing it on to my loved ones, because they mean everything to me and I could never hurt them.. but again, don't get mad at me please, this is my experience and therefore my opinon. People have it different than me and have different views than me aswell, I know. Everyone is fighting different battles, and I'm not speaking for everyone, only myself, so it's completely okay if you don't agree with me. But I feel like calling peoples opinion idiotic because they think it's selfish without knowing their reasoning or experience behind this exact theme isn't something we should do... No, I'm not saying that being selfish means that they are cowards or weak, it's the complete opposite. So don't get me wrong. :s I'm just not good with words.

Many people who attempt/commit suicide think that they're actually doing their friends and family a favour by dying... they often feel like they're a burden and people would be better off without them, or that no one really cares

 

[moonford]

Many people who attempt/commit suicide think that they're actually doing their friends and family a favour by dying... they often feel like they're a burden and people would be better off without them, or that no one really cares

This is something that is often in suicide notes.

 

[Nightmares]

Also can I just add that calling suicidal people selfish is kinda...selfish in itself...lmao
It's like you're disregarding their troubles and turning it on yourself like "think about how affected I am; how could you do this to me?" kinda thing

 

[duckykate]

I too think it's "selfish". It's really hard to explain why I think so without people being mad at me... I'm not saying that I don't know how it feels or that I don't have any experiences with it. But this is my personal opinion, and I don't mean this in a mean way. It's really hard to explain, but when people commit it, they only passes their pain onto someone else. That's what I mean by it being selfish, even tho that isn't even the right word to use for it, but I don't what other words to use, sorry. I have chosen to live with the pain instead of passing it on to my loved ones, because they mean everything to me and I could never hurt them.. but again, don't get mad at me please, this is my experience and therefore my opinon. People have it different than me and have different views than me aswell, I know. Everyone is fighting different battles, and I'm not speaking for everyone, only myself, so it's completely okay if you don't agree with me. But I feel like calling peoples opinion idiotic because they think it's selfish without knowing their reasoning or experience behind this exact theme isn't something we should do... No, I'm not saying that being selfish means that they are cowards or weak, it's the complete opposite. So don't get me wrong. :s I'm just not good with words.

you clearly have never been suicidal before. when i wanted to kill myself i truly believed that i was just a burden on my friends and family and that they would be happier without me. that was the depression talking, though. suicidal people need to be shown love and support from the people around them in order to heal. as gyro mentioned above, you are truly the selfish one for taking someone who was a victim of an illness, and twisting it around so that all you care about is your pain and sadness

 

[SoulEaterEvans]

As someone who has both attempted suicide and had someone close to them attempt, I can see through both sides. I understand the feeling that there is no other choice, feeling that death is better, and even feeling that your loved ones would be better off without you. But I can also say that mental health problems make you incredibly self-absorbed (and I mean that in a non-value laden way, you literally become caught up in your own head and your own world and there is less space for others). And we live in a society with others who are affected by our actions. And we always have a choice, I have sat in my bedroom feeling suicidal and I have overdosed. I have sat in my bedroom feeling just as suicidal, and stayed up all night having panic attacks and NOT overdosed because after experiencing an attempt by a loved one I knew I could never put anyone through that again. However you kill yourself you will traumatise those around you and leave them in a horrible place for quite possibly the rest of your life. The Train or car driver who hits you. The passerby you land next to after jumping. Whoever finds you blood or vomit stained and dead. And everyone who has tried to help you will spend their whole life wondering what they did wrong, sure that if they'd just done one thing they might have saved you.

A selfish act is one done for your own benefit at the expense of others. Suicide clearly falls into this category, you 'relieve' your own suffering, at the expense of intense suffering to all those around you.

 

[duckykate]

people really need to start understanding that depression is a real thing, just like cancer or the flu. it takes over your brain and convinces you that you're worthless and people would be happier without you. people who have killed themselves are victims of their disease, not 'selfish' or 'cowardly'.

 

[seliph]

A selfish act is one done for your own benefit at the expense of others. Suicide clearly falls into this category, you 'relieve' your own suffering, at the expense of intense suffering to all those around you.

But you do not willingly disregard others' feelings nor put yourself above others. Your thoughts also aren't your own.

I would also never call being dead a "benefit". It's like "I'm going to escape this harsh cold weather by stepping in this fire" like sure you're warm now but it sure as hell isn't beneficial.

 

[Alienfish]

I personally think suicide is selfish; it?s finding an easy way out with no concern for the people you?re gonna leave behind.

Wow, really. Do you even know why people are even doing this?
--

But yeah to get on topic, if you mean assisted death help and stuff, yes it should be legal. As long as done properly and prepared I don't see any harm. I'd rather die than being plagued by medication and bad condition that could not be treated.

 

[SoulEaterEvans]

But you do not willingly disregard others' feelings nor put yourself above others. Your thoughts also aren't your own.

I would also never call being dead a "benefit". It's like "I'm going to escape this harsh cold weather by stepping in this fire" like sure you're warm now but it sure as hell isn't beneficial.

Your thoughts are your own. If they aren't your thoughts, then whose thoughts can they possibly be?

Being dead is being dead. There's no fire, there's no other form of torture, there's nothing. The escape is the benefit to one's self.

 

[John Wick]

I've known a couple of people who killed themselves.
They never showed signs of depression, in fact, they were happy people. The life of the party.

You never really know what's going on inside someone's head.

Until it's too late.

 

[BlueBear]

As someone who has both attempted suicide and had someone close to them attempt, I can see through both sides. I understand the feeling that there is no other choice, feeling that death is better, and even feeling that your loved ones would be better off without you. But I can also say that mental health problems make you incredibly self-absorbed (and I mean that in a non-value laden way, you literally become caught up in your own head and your own world and there is less space for others). And we live in a society with others who are affected by our actions. And we always have a choice, I have sat in my bedroom feeling suicidal and I have overdosed. I have sat in my bedroom feeling just as suicidal, and stayed up all night having panic attacks and NOT overdosed because after experiencing an attempt by a loved one I knew I could never put anyone through that again. However you kill yourself you will traumatise those around you and leave them in a horrible place for quite possibly the rest of your life. The Train or car driver who hits you. The passerby you land next to after jumping. Whoever finds you blood or vomit stained and dead. And everyone who has tried to help you will spend their whole life wondering what they did wrong, sure that if they'd just done one thing they might have saved you.

A selfish act is one done for your own benefit at the expense of others. Suicide clearly falls into this category, you 'relieve' your own suffering, at the expense of intense suffering to all those around you.

This is what I?ve been trying to say, you just said it in a more eloquent way, you have a better way with words.

I?ve done exactly the same, except I?ve never overdosed. I have had the panic attacks and the late nights and everything else but I couldn?t bring myself to do it because ... imagine my parents finding me. Imagine my little sister finding me. I thought of that, and it stopped me even attempting anything. I couldn?t do that to them, to the people I love.

Wow, really. Do you even know why people are even doing this?
--

But yeah to get on topic, if you mean assisted death help and stuff, yes it should be legal. As long as done properly and prepared I don't see any harm. I'd rather die than being plagued by medication and bad condition that could not be treated.

I clearly used the wrong choice of word. I?ve elaborated in further posts.

That makes your posts even more disheartening.

You should understand that depression can prevent people from making rational decisions all while putting irrational ones in their place.

Wrong word choice, I have elaborated what I meant.
There?s help available and there?s always another way out. And yes I was irrational and had mutliple panic attacks but when it came down to it I didn?t do anything because of the people I care about. I didnt want them to find me. I imagined how traumatic it would be for them.

 

[seliph]

Your thoughts are your own. If they aren't your thoughts, then whose thoughts can they possibly be?

Being dead is being dead. There's no fire, there's no other form of torture, there's nothing. The escape is the benefit to one's self.

Suicidal thoughts aren't willingly manufactured by yourself. You don't voluntarily think "hmm yes today I will do the suicide", they aren't like opinions where you can rationally think them through. Your brain puts these thoughts there unwillingly because you are sick and need help. Another example of this is intrusive thoughts - people aren't twisted for having them, they're just a common symptom of certain illnesses. Similarly people aren't selfish for being suicidal.

People keep thinking of suicide victims in terms of "Oh but what about me and the other people around them" while completely disregarding all the suffering they are going through alone and that's something that needs to stop. As I said before that is rather selfish in itself.

 

[Jacob]

Mental patients or (diagnosably) depressed patients who have suicidal tendencies are in fact diseased and cannot cognitively function normally. They require treatment, and regards to "selfishness" doesn't apply and should never apply.

Considering suicide illegal is absurd.
A claim that suicide victims go to "Hell" is ignorant.

 

[seliph]

Wrong word choice, I have elaborated what I meant.
There’s help available and there’s always another way out. And yes I was irrational and had mutliple panic attacks but when it came down to it I didn’t do anything because of the people I care about. I didnt want them to find me. I imagined how traumatic it would be for them.

Good for you! Not everyone has the option to take a step back and think about the affect on others. Not everyone has the option to think clearly in the midst of wanting the pain to end.

People are quick to say "There's always help" but the unfortunate truth is there isn't. Not everywhere has reliable mental help available, and not everywhere has it affordable. Some people are forced to deal with their illnesses all alone and there's not much that can be done.

Instead of antagonizing mentally ill people by calling them selfish we should be telling them we care about them. Message your friends tell them you appreciate them tell them they're cool don't just claim there's help when there may not be.

 

[BlueBear]

Good for you! Not everyone has the option to take a step back and think about the affect on others. Not everyone has the option to think clearly in the midst of wanting the pain to end.

People are quick to say "There's always help" but the unfortunate truth is there isn't. Not everywhere has reliable mental help available, and not everywhere has it affordable. Some people are forced to deal with their illnesses all alone and there's not much that can be done.

Instead of antagonizing mentally ill people by calling them selfish we should be telling them we care about them. Message your friends tell them you appreciate them tell them they're cool don't just claim there's help when there may not be.

I’m not sure where you live.. but in the UK there are numerous mental health charities and also regular gp’s can provide help in terms of medication and guidance, like they can refer you to a councillor. Granted, we have the nhs so this support is free.. so yup support is readily available here. If it’s not where you live then thats absolutely awful and I apologise for coming across as insensitive. I’m speakin using only the info I have from my own experiences and the experiences from those around me.

 

[SoulEaterEvans]

An individual that commits suicide is not selfish, but the act itself is a selfish one-- "inconsiderate" even.

That is indisputable.

 

[seliph]

I’m not sure where you live.. but in the UK there are numerous mental health charities and also regular gp’s can provide help in terms of medication and guidance, like they can refer you to a councillor. Granted, we have the nhs so this support is free.. so yup support is readily available here. If it’s not where you live then thats absolutely awful and I apologise for coming across as insensitive. I’m speakin using only the info I have from my own experiences and the experiences from those around me.

I'm willing to bet the UK's system isn't perfect either. You may have found adequate treatment for yourself but the same treatment doesn't work on everyone. There is also the matter of an often unspoken problem in the mental health institute, which is that finding help that doesn't discriminate against LGBT people is even harder to find.

An individual that commits suicide is not selfish, but the act itself is a selfish one-- "inconsiderate" even.

That is indisputable.

Nah.

 

[Marte]

You know people are allowed to be mad at you no matter how many times you ask not to and how cutesy you make your post, right?

If you think suicide is a selfish act you clearly 1) have never had to deal with a harsh mental illness ever and 2) have never had friends or loved ones suffering with one either. When people are thinking of suicide they are not thinking of "passing the pain down", the general desire there is wanting their own pain to end. Pain that people who call suicidal people "selfish" clearly haven't experienced yet.

More often than not there is also the thought that our loved ones would fare better off without us. That there wasn't really a place for us in this world and by taking ourselves out of the situation it'd be easier for others.

With that being said, as others have mentioned: we do not choose to think like this. It is not our fault, and having these thoughts was not our own decision in the first place. We are suffering with sick brains that posts like this do not help at all. Calling people selfish for having an illness we didn't ask for, an illness that directly hinders and halts our ability to think rationally, is incredibly harmful and incredibly ignorant. Hearing that you're selfish while thinking of ending it all only makes it worse and only gives us more of a reason to feel like we shouldn't be here. I hate to sound dramatic but posts like these, no matter how nicely worded, really do play a part in what makes us (want to/try to) end our lives and are frankly more selfish than any suicidal person's thoughts. How can people see that someone wants to harm themselves and think "Oh but they're hurting me by doing this" instead of immediately wondering what absolute terror they're going through at the moment? That is selfish.

I'm going to end off with a reference to something Zendel said but there is absolutely no selfish reason for committing suicide or for wanting to. Debt might seem to fit the description but when money is, unfortunately, 100% essential to living it's pretty easy to see why being in the negatives would cause someone to take their life. They can't provide for yourself, they can't provide for your loved ones, so it feels like the only option. These people are still suffering and need our support as do any suicidal people.

I'm not trying to seem "cute" with asking people not to get mad, I just don't like others having something against me and looking at me as some insensitive girl, even if it's on an anonymous forum.
As I said, I don't know what other words to describe it with, and I know that selfish is the wrong word and i apologise for using that. No, I have never been suicidal, but I have lost someone close due that reason, and my bestfriend is now also really scaring me with his behavior. I'm trying my best to make him see the better things in life, even tho I know these are thoughts he can't control. I talk with him every day, I call him, tell him I love him all the time. I'm really doing my best I can! And no, it's not like I tell my friend that his thoughts are selfish, when he needs my help, of course not.
I'm seeing this from the "outsider" point of view. And as someone who have lost a loved one, this is what I feel. I'm not trying to make any points or to make people think like I do, I just can't help feeling that way and I'm sorry. Because I know that suicide isn't "selfish" and I know that people only want to take the pain away, as you said. I agree with everything you are saying, don't get me wrong. And yes, for people that are going through this, I can easily see why you disagree with me, and I'm sorry if I'm coming off as ignorant, and I really do wish I didn't think of it like this.

"Oh but they're hurting me by doing this" . <-- this is not what I mean at all! I agree that is indeed extremely selfish, and yea, when I'm saying it's selfish then thats probably the impression you get from me, and It's easy to understand that you do. But again, sorry for using the word selfish, because that's not the word I want to use but I don't know what else to explain it with. But yes, using that word is, as you said, selfish of me, I'm aware of that...

I know, people don't ask for this, and they can't control it. I'm only an outsider and I have probably said more than I really should, but I don't want you to misunderstand me.

- - - Post Merge - - -

Many people who attempt/commit suicide think that they're actually doing their friends and family a favour by dying... they often feel like they're a burden and people would be better off without them, or that no one really cares

I know... way too many.

 

[BlueBear]

I'm willing to bet the UK's system isn't perfect either. You may have found adequate treatment for yourself but the same treatment doesn't work on everyone. There is also the matter of an often unspoken problem in the mental health institute, which is that finding help that doesn't discriminate against LGBT people is even harder to find.

Theres multiple options available there isnt one set treatment so if one doesnt work theres always another option. Our system isnt perfect, but what system is ever perfect, in any field ever. But it’s there.
And sorry I disagree I had two depressed friends at different stages in my life who both fall under the LGBT category and they found help no problem with no discrimination so maybe thats an issue wherever youre from and not an all around one. An issue non the less that needs sorting but doesnt mean its an issue in every area.

 

[Keldi]

Dear people who think suicide is selfish: How? But I get it. I've been close friends with my best friend sinxe 4th grade and she is LITERALLY the only thing that keeps me alive. I don't want her to be in pain because I chose to kill myself.
Also, nobody asks for an illness that eventually pushes them over the egde. I highly doubt somebody wakes up like "Hrm...Me want cancer!" So why are mental illnesses treated like it's their fault? They didn't go "Hrm...Me want severe depression!" Nobody does that. It's not their fault.
As for the legal stuff...Do suicidal people who go through with it really give a **** about commiting a crime? And if they live, if the court heartless and gives them a suicide fee??? Okay, that last question was serious someone please answer that for me.