Mafia June 2020 Mafia Game Thread [DAY 2 ENDS AT 6/20 5PM PST]

[glow]

Why not yourself? do you have any intel on why we must protect at all costs?
I could say the same about Bianca, so please explain.

Yes your vote is weak and I don't agree with it, punchy is not vote worthy by just giving short answers and insights. I want something more.

why not myself what?

because i don't think pressure on pink was either warranted or productive, and a few pages later when players were being more open pink felt more encouraged to try -- which actually benefits us more than demanding reads and scumreading them when the demand wasn't met

i recall daniel bringing up pink multiple times, as well as other players. and it seems like dan in particular is picking on low hanging fruit (sensai, pink, a couple of other names i'm blanking on rn) so that doesn't sit well with me

 

[Ace Marvel]

why not myself what?

because i don't think pressure on pink was either warranted or productive, and a few pages later when players were being more open pink felt more encouraged to try -- which actually benefits us more than demanding reads and scumreading them when the demand wasn't met

i recall daniel bringing up pink multiple times, as well as other players. and it seems like dan in particular is picking on low hanging fruit (sensai, pink, a couple of other names i'm blanking on rn) so that doesn't sit well with me

But protecting anyone at all costs, is cloud judgement.

 

[Aerious]

Anyway, I lean on eliminating SensaiGallade the most, but my gut is telling me that isn't right for some reason. I kinda... agree with Toads that he has a point about Aerious being too centrist. The thing that holds me back is that I can kind of give her the benefit of the doubt about their point on things not being the way they are not than they were in 2014 and she at least seems to have a genuine tone. I'd like to see some genuine content from her without arguing with Toads since I feel they're both being a little unfair to each other here. As I said Aerious, I think you're clogging the thread vs. Toads and I don't think you're really going anywhere with this and it would make things easier if you could make it easier for me to get a read on you.

Gut says Toads/Aerious is TownVTown but it would help if Aerious made her thoughts a little clearer

ignoring everything pertaining to toads bc i'm not going to touch on that

sensei/punchy are scum-leaning for reasons aforementioned. they've been evasive and haven't contributed much to the conversation. both seem nonchalant in terms of being eliminated. sensei even self-voted
toads is on a witch hunt and hasn't produced anything of substance. we're now being read as town v. town, which makes me believe that accusing others swiftly was a way to get us off his back. on any other maf platform gung ho naming people is seen as guilt. why is toads excluded from this? it makes more logical sense to want to be hesitant before being accusatory for the benefit of town. i asked for a reason to name people as he wants, no answer
ace is null. i believe him to be town-leaning by his behavior and willingness to work with town, but the freudian slip of stating that there's a roleblocker and a ninja in mafia is too much to be glazed over, and idk why it wasn't tunneled
pink i think is town-leaning due to willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of town
shawo is town-leaning. his emotional reaction isn't enough to warrant ai. him defending the importance of understanding numbers/trying to figure out the logistics to help town has been incredibly helpful to me and us as town. saw a few people negate this, but it's important to get figure things out for the betterment of town
i've been clear about how i feel about daniel consistently. shrugging off ace's potential slip/shawo's numbers may have him a little more scum-leaning to me as of current

i'm in a meeting atm, so i think these are all of the changes to my list. i think i've been abundantly clear with where i lie. everything is prone to change as the game progresses

 

[glow]

also where did you get "short answers and insights" from anything i've said?

my vote on punchy isn't weak, you are reducing it to a matter of brevity though my point was that punchy was not doing anything to lynch mafia. he was sidelining and fencesitting while also making commentary that complained about the game being boring

more recently he's changed his tune, but if anything i'd say the recent contributions were a reaction to a cattle prod.

 

[Aerious]

toads, you need to apologize to shawo and i regardless of what happens. i'm going to make that abundantly clear now. changing to be better isn't enough to be ok, and you've been entirely uncalled for this entire game, potentially harming us with gung ho, hasty claims. i apologized for offending you, but i'm not sure why you refused to apologize to shawo and ignore that point of mine. if people are saying you've been offensive, that should be enough to want to apologize. i don't blame shawo for defending himself -- the ex wasn't the only concern, it was more so the fact that you also compared how he acts to your triggers. you aren't being fair at all as a player, and i'm willing to wallpost later/when this game is done to prove my point. it's shameful that this is "better" and you're willing to shame a returning player, to the point of me wanting to sub out bc this is getting out of hand, to convey a point

 

[glow]

But protecting anyone at all costs, is cloud judgement.

i'm not sure what you mean here, but "protect at all costs" is just a memey phrase

i dunno if you're doing this intentionally because you're looking for reasons to push me since your heels are so deep in the ground but you keep taking my lines at face value, misconstruing jokes like when i fake voted dan.

don't even think ur mafia tho i genuinely just think you're a contrarian and don't want to reexamine your reads.

 

[Ace Marvel]

also where did you get "short answers and insights" from anything i've said?

No everything is about you, I am entitled to have opinions you know.

my vote on punchy isn't weak

Opinion not fact

he was sidelining and fencesitting while also making commentary that complained about the game being boring

I would have to agree with the game being a little boring, again opinion not fact.

more recently he's changed his tune, but if anything i'd say the recent contributions were a reaction to a cattle prod.

Then so are mine, I'm scum then, and that is the weak logic I find behind your reasoning.

i'm not sure what you mean here, but "protect at all costs" is just a memey phrase

i dunno if you're doing this intentionally because you're looking for reasons to push me since your heels are so deep in the ground but you keep taking my lines at face value, misconstruing jokes like when i fake voted dan.

don't even think ur mafia tho i genuinely just think you're a contrarian and don't want to reexamine your reads.

Okay I'm that word you called me, I am wrong you are perfect, just ignore me for the rest of the game if that makes you happy.

Post automatically merged: Jun 17, 2020

So easy to say everything is jokes and memes, but I mess up a word and I get a whole lesson of the English language, sorry for not being a perfect native speaker.

 

[glow]

ignoring everything pertaining to toads bc i'm not going to touch on that

sensei/punchy are scum-leaning for reasons aforementioned. they've been evasive and haven't contributed much to the conversation. both seem nonchalant in terms of being eliminated. sensei even self-voted
toads is on a witch hunt and hasn't produced anything of substance. we're now being read as town v. town, which makes me believe that accusing others swiftly was a way to get us off his back. on any other maf platform gung ho naming people is seen as guilt. why is toads excluded from this? it makes more logical sense to want to be hesitant before being accusatory for the benefit of town. i asked for a reason to name people as he wants, no answer
ace is null. i believe him to be town-leaning by his behavior and willingness to work with town, but the freudian slip of stating that there's a roleblocker and a ninja in mafia is too much to be glazed over, and idk why it wasn't tunneled
pink i think is town-leaning due to willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of town
shawo is town-leaning. his emotional reaction isn't enough to warrant ai. him defending the importance of understanding numbers/trying to figure out the logistics to help town has been incredibly helpful to me and us as town. saw a few people negate this, but it's important to get figure things out for the betterment of town
i've been clear about how i feel about daniel consistently. shrugging off ace's potential slip/shawo's numbers may have him a little more scum-leaning to me as of current

i'm in a meeting atm, so i think these are all of the changes to my list. i think i've been abundantly clear with where i lie. everything is prone to change as the game progresses

i feel obligated to state that shawo would comment on factual mechanics regardless of alignment, and he would react the way he did to being scumread (indignant, hyperanalytical, high self preservation) as either alignment as well

i'd definitely encourage caution to anyone townreading him based off of that

 

[Aerious]

i feel obligated to state that shawo would comment on factual mechanics regardless of alignment, and he would react the way he did to being scumread (indignant, hyperanalytical, high self preservation) as either alignment as well

i'd definitely encourage caution to anyone townreading him based off of that

so then shawo is null if this is normal behavior. i don't think getting defensive to toads' aggression is ai, and i don't know why people were willing to wagon him because of it. just feels like it was low-hanging fruit to jump on this wagon tbh. if anyone was guilty from that interaction, without a doubt it's toads for trying to get an easy pick on a potential townie. i see no way around that

daniel/ace haven't addressed the potential freudian slip from last night. ace said definitively that there was a rb/ninja in maf, blamed misunderstanding rules, and i'm surprised daniel didn't tunnel this and tried to steer away from shawo's contribution. mechanics are heavily important to town, doesn't matter if people try to deny this fact

 

[Ace Marvel]

daniel/ace haven't addressed the potential freudian slip from last night. ace said definitively that there was a rb/ninja in maf, blamed misunderstanding rules, and i'm surprised daniel didn't tunnel this and tried to steer away from shawo's contribution. mechanics are heavily important to town, doesn't matter if people try to deny this fact

Because I read them from the potential rolls, I had said godfather, janitor, arsonist I buy your argument, but they are there for everyone to see, potential doesn't mean they are or are not in game, so I want to consider that they are.

 

[Damniel]

recall daniel bringing up pink multiple times, as well as other players. and it seems like dan in particular is picking on low hanging fruit (sensai, pink, a couple of other names i'm blanking on rn) so that doesn't sit well with me

please bring up those posts on pink bc i didn’t mention a lynch on them at all

do you think sensai is on the same level as pink? i certainly don’t think so. do you think he’s town compared to punchys lack of motivation and reads?

Post automatically merged: Jun 17, 2020

i'm surprised daniel didn't tunnel this and tried to steer away from shawo's contribution

tunneling is not a good thing to do and shawo already said why it’s 4 maf so i didn’t see a need to discuss it again

 

[epona]

i think now is probably a good time to start casting votes if anybody is holding back, the voting thread is a mess lol

 

[glow]

Not everything is about you, I am entitled to have opinions you know.

yes of course but you were reducing my arguments to something i don't believe represets what i was saying so i was trying to restate it in hopes of making my point clearer

I would have to agree with the game being a little boring, again opinion not fact.

the issue is not calling the game boring. the issue is that he wasn't scum hunting and instead made commentary like that

Then so are mine, I'm scum then, and that is the weak logic I find behind your reasoning.

this doesn't make sense, you have been highly interactive / involved with the thread. so no, my reasoning would not lead me to believe you're mafia

Okay I'm that word you called me, I am wrong you are perfect, just ignore me for the rest of the game if that makes you happy.

the point isn't to shut you down, it's to discuss. i don't know why you think i would want to ignore you because you scumread me, i said i wouldn't put attention to your read on me if you weren't explaining things but you have explained so of course i will respond to that

Post automatically merged: Jun 17, 2020

So easy to say everything is jokes and memes, but I mess up a word and I get a whole lesson of the English language, sorry for not being a perfect native speaker.

i would not have been able to tell you weren't a native english speaker if you didn't mention it, i just meant to state that the word didn't fit the context

 

[Damniel]

i feel obligated to state that shawo would comment on factual mechanics regardless of alignment, and he would react the way he did to being scumread (indignant, hyperanalytical, high self preservation) as either alignment as well

i'd definitely encourage caution to anyone townreading him based off of that

earlier you mentioned you knew him off site. can you talk about what you’re seeing right now in terms of his meta? how is he behaving?

 

[N e s s]

@Ace Marvel I really got to be honest I do not understand you have such a vendetta against glow, her vote on Punchy is justified and I'm fine with it. EVERYTHING in this game is opinion and almost never fact, this is like that one comic where glow is trying to do things and you're just tunneling her for the hell of it:

toads, you need to apologize to shawo and i regardless of what happens. i'm going to make that abundantly clear now. changing to be better isn't enough to be ok, and you've been entirely uncalled for this entire game, potentially harming us with gung ho, hasty claims. i apologized for offending you, but i'm not sure why you refused to apologize to shawo and ignore that point of mine. if people are saying you've been offensive, that should be enough to want to apologize. i don't blame shawo for defending himself -- the ex wasn't the only concern, it was more so the fact that you also compared how he acts to your triggers. you aren't being fair at all as a player, and i'm willing to wallpost later/when this game is done to prove my point. it's shameful that this is "better" and you're willing to shame a returning player, to the point of me wanting to sub out bc this is getting out of hand, to convey a point

Please don't sub out, I'm sorry you feel like he's being unfair to you. You seem like an interesting player and it would be shame if you left for this reason :/

@toadsworthy she has a point. If Aerious feels uncomfortable, apologize to her so y'all can move on from this banter. This isn't helpful for anyone right now.

 

[Aerious]

Because I read them from the potential rolls, I had said godfather, janitor, arsonist I buy your argument, but they are there for everyone to see, potential doesn't mean they are or are not in game, so I want to consider that they are.

I don't feel comfortable, with a role blocker and a ninja on mafia, it could be risky.

this feels more definitive than a possibility, and therefore could easily be a slip

tunneling is not a good thing to do and shawo already said why it’s 4 maf so i didn’t see a need to discuss it again

tunneling is a good thing to do to understand motives/reasoning. what ace said should've been nitpicked, and i expected you to be the one to do it out of your experience with mafia (which is my assumption from an out of game context). i mentioned it asap, idk why it wasn't picked up on by anyone else. shawo isn't the qualm -- i'm wondering why you were so quick to dismiss shawo's discussion of mechanics before entertaining it, and then glossed over ace's mention of maf having rb/ninja

Post automatically merged: Jun 17, 2020

honestly, i see tunneling as more useful than redundant questions. not sure if i'm missing the full picture and you have a plan for late game, but that's where i stand as of current

 

[Damniel]

tunneling is a good thing to do to understand motives/reasoning. what ace said should've been nitpicked, and i expected you to be the one to do it out of your experience with mafia (which is my assumption from an out of game context). i mentioned it asap, idk why it wasn't picked up on by anyone else. shawo isn't the qualm -- i'm wondering why you were so quick to dismiss shawo's discussion of mechanics before entertaining it, and then glossed over ace's mention of maf having rb/ninja

no tunneling ultimately leads to examples like toads and you that are just dragged out narrow conversations. questioning is one thing but tunneling is never good

i don’t think it’s impossible to imagine there being both a roleblocker and ninja so i don’t think much of it at all i’m not going to pick at slips i don’t think are there

Post automatically merged: Jun 17, 2020

i don’t think we have the same definition of tunneling

 

[Aerious]

no tunneling ultimately leads to examples like toads and you that are just dragged out narrow conversations. questioning is one thing but tunneling is never good

i don’t think it’s impossible to imagine there being both a roleblocker and ninja so i don’t think much of it at all i’m not going to pick at slips i don’t think are there

that's an assumption. you should still explore every possibility. what's the purpose of redundant questions? tunneling is absolutely useful, as it leads to narrative and explanation. there is every possibility that ace could've slipped.

toads v. me isn't an example of tunneling. toads is too subjective of a player to objectively tunnel. i would expect it out of glow, epona, and shawo -- who are the most objective players thus far. it was taken as far as it was because -- quite obviously -- i deemed toads' behavior offensive, not because it was a tunnel

Post automatically merged: Jun 17, 2020

oh. yeah i think we may. i mean tunneling as in focusing on one fact and wanting to know more. just googled, tunneling in mafia is when one person is dead set on someone being scum. then i flip my statements. subjective players tunnel per mafia's standards, objective players question for cause/pick up on details

 

[Damniel]

that's an assumption. you should still explore every possibility. what's the purpose of redundant questions? tunneling is absolutely useful, as it leads to narrative and explanation. there is every possibility that ace could've slipped.

toads v. me isn't an example of tunneling. toads is too subjective of a player to objectively tunnel. i would expect it out of glow, epona, and shawo -- who are the most objective players thus far. it was taken as far as it was because -- quite obviously -- i deemed toads' behavior offensive, not because it was a tunnel

not sure what redundant questions you are talking about

yea we def aren’t seeing the same definition of tunneling. you and toads are tunneling each other because you two are fixation on each other, having a narrow conversation, and having a discussions that’s on points that’s mostly drawn out at this point. tunneling is not being able to re-evaluate a player since you’re so dead set on them being town. other examples of tunneling would be Ash on Kruze in my champs game (for those who read it) and shawo on Tae during Ness’s game in recent mind. those two cases are more extreme that you and toads rn though. tunneling conservations tend to just be distracting and overplayed

 

[Aerious]

not sure what redundant questions you are talking about

yea we def aren’t seeing the same definition of tunneling. you and toads are tunneling each other because you two are fixation on each other, having a narrow conversation, and having a discussions that’s on points that’s mostly drawn out at this point. tunneling is not being able to re-evaluate a player since you’re so dead set on them being town. other examples of tunneling would be Ash on Kruze in my champs game (for those who read it) and shawo on Tae during Ness’s game in recent mind. those two cases are more extreme that you and toads rn though. tunneling conservations tend to just be distracting and overplayed

yep i see what you mean now

i mean you keep asking people questions, but i'm unsure of your motive with all of them. you're not really making any points off of your findings, and they kinda seem to be going nowhere thus far. is it meant to be comparison for late game? i'm not fully understanding