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Mafia Mountainous Mafia: Camp Mafia - Mafia Wins!

i guess i can see your point. bianca is still in my top 3 susses atm, but I will trust your judgment.

who are your contenders for voting today? i’m hovering towards catharina or bianca (obvs know you see bianca as town)

I think for me I like to wait until morning of to vote. This gives people a chance to chime in with their thoughts. And although I understand being busy (my late mornings are super busy) I think a few posts a day would be minimum for me to put someone town. I would think anything less and you really aren't trying to help figure anything out. So while some inactivity is fine, too much and it feels weird. I am still keeping my eyes on catharina, koopa, antonio.

If I had to put a percentage on bianca, I'd say 55/45 town.
Last day I outlined my thoughts on everyone individually after reading through all of that person's posts and taking notes. I will try to do that again by tomorrow noon. (I would highly recommend that, as last time I found plenty of things I missed first time through).

I haven't looked in detail at catharina- I've kind of been going on geonis/other peoples reads, and waiting to see more posts. I plan on looking more at: catharina, everything- koopa, everything- antonio, looking for all of his actual reads on people with details/reasoning, not just questions)- bianca, looking thru all to see if I missed something, but I really don't think I'll find anything.

Right now I have as town-leaning:
Droqen 75/25
Damniel 75/25
Barely bianca 55/45

Everyone else, I just dont know, but not in town yet, for sure. (And this may change after I look deeper.) And if you think I'm missing something, point me to the posts! I have no problem admitting to things going right over my head.
 
May I ask, do you believe anything is suspicious regarding anyone? These are all positive opinions regarding everyone but I'm curious if you have any suspicions?

I am just basing it on a theory that I saw in droqen's post, about a Daniel and Betsy team but I am gonna modify it a bit, let's say Daniel and Betsy are both town (if one is mafia, then based on theory, Betsy is too- on the basis of mafia establishing towncores). That means i have 4 suspects to choose from , Catharina, droqen, Antonio, and koopa.

- One thing about I noticed from Catharina is she addressed Daniel's post about me in the thread thinking it was her. It was question for me. A careful mafia , especially if two people are working together would not let Catharina give an answer like that. They would address the issues right there and then and on target. mafia tend to be attentive to details and simple slip ups like these can be a town tell for Catharina.
SCUM<TOWN but barely= she moved up in my list

- Koopa voted for me on the mere issue of inactivity. I can see his point but after a few posts later, his stance was still the same eventhough I addressed some of the issues. What question did I not address Koopa? I thought you were asking me about me saying Geoni's death and Daniel voting is off. I thought I adddressed these issues already. Koopa'a activity basically centered around me and the issue of my alleged inactivity. Either he has not read the other posts as town or he chose not to read the posts as might be agreed on by fellow members. He is also laying low this time.
SCUM>TOWN and I am quite 50/50 on this because my argument about him could be applied to Catharina as well but her simple slip up gave quite an impression on me.

-Antonio questioned a lot of people about their stance, showing disagreement and agreement on some. The fact that he is attentive is either because he is trying to solve the mafia or he is operating as an active mafia trying to be townlike. He even stated some reasoning on perspectives on voting and changing minds about one's opinion. I yet have to see a definitive statements of him having suspicions on other members but just questioning them on why did they do what they did
SCUM=TOWN= I will wait for his reads as he promised he would

-Then there's droqen which is an enigma to me. All his thoughts are what I am thinking and I am gonna sound biased but it makes me incline that I will treat him as town because we have the same wavelength. He might have expound on it some more. Droqen is not an easy vote for me as I think I will definitely be able to solve more of him the longer he stays in game.
???? if there's someobody who operates iin the mind like me ,it's him. We literally have posts next to each commenting on same topic. I know what I am and my alignment. This makes me believe it is his alignment too which is town.

Now, let us say Betsy and Daniel are not teamed at all, one is mafia and one is not.

Daniel- the only thing that makes me think he is not wolfy at all is the timing of his vote and Geoni's death and I still believe Mafia is trying to frame him if he is town. Daniel has spent some time questioning people, giving his theories and agreeeing and disagreeing on some posts. My argument about Antonio could might as well apply to Daniel. He is either a mafia trying to be helpful to town, or a town that pulls all the tricks in the book to pull out mafia. On the mafiaish side, he is trying to establish Betsy as a towncore and even expressed the importance of having towncore in the game where i told him that mafia could manipulate that and use the towncore to win the game. Daniel can quite give the suprise if he needed. He can be a chameleon and appear towncore no matter what. He pulled it off before as a serial killer :)

Betsy-I must agree with one of the posters (was it droqen) that Betsy appears towncore but the impression you will think is she achieved towncore because she gave fabulous reads during day 1 and very observant. But on the second day, will she do the same and try to examine all players? - This argument of Betsy doing fabulous reads and the next day is basically just random posts here and there is I believe strongly could be a mafia tactic. If Betsy and Damniel are not a team, I think this argument falls flat in my face. Betsy is just doing her best then to solve the game. But then again, I could also argue that she is trying to appear towny as well.

These are just thoughts I have as of real time. SOme things might have changed from my previous posts as I see the post changes. I agree with Antoniio that your perspective might change. Especially if town! Things can get so confusing that you go from one train of thought to another.
 
My Reads, A Read List based on My Reads
Just finished my stream so I'm working on these reads.

Hello guys, as I have promised these are my reads.
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**** I CLICKED SEND BY MISTAKE, HOLD ON ignore that and let me collect my thoughts.
 
Daniel can quite give the suprise if he needed. He can be a chameleon and appear towncore no matter what. He pulled it off before as a serial killer :)

But on the second day, will she do the same and try to examine all players? - This argument of Betsy doing fabulous reads and the next day is basically just random posts here and there is I believe strongly could be a mafia tactic. If Betsy and Damniel are not a team, I think this argument falls flat in my face. Betsy is just doing her best then to solve the game. But then again, I could also argue that she is trying to appear towny as well.

To the first comment- I haven't played with damniel before, but I would be very surprised if he flipped wolf. I have him townier than ever. In fact, we've discussed each other's stance on you quite a bit, in detail, as we had disagreed on that.

To the second, I've already addressed this and stated that I would post my detailed reads tomorrow by noon. And I think my posts have been anything but random. I think I've given plenty of detail. So I don't understand this comment.
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i guess i can see your point. bianca is still in my top 3 susses atm, but I will trust your judgment.

I might have been mistaken on this.
 
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My Reads, A Read List based on My Reads
Just finished my stream so I'm working on these reads.

Hello guys, as I have promised these are my reads. As I have posted my clean format before posting, I can't jokingly brag about how clean my reads are, sadly. :C

My reads should be based on who I believe is the most suspicious to least suspicious and my reasoning for why.
  • @Koopadude100 - Sussy (Possible Slight?) - I personally have two reasons why I believe Koopa is sus. For once, I believe he was hypocritical when insisting that Bianca should post more when he hasn't posted much? Then there is the fact regarding his opinions. One thing I feel like is universally town (but can easily be mimicked by the mafia) is the willingness to push on your opinions. Koopa has been quite easily been stating their opinion but has been lacking on their push to further understand their opinions or to exhibit pressure on anywho who is sus. I understand he is pretty new to the game but I feel like he is trying to hide under the radar to use his "newbieness" for his benefit. Of course, I can be wrong about this and I'm worried about that. I did try questioning to understand but this suspicion hasn't changed due to the responses.​
  • @Catharina - Slight Sussy - As stated above, I believe Koopa is sus for a lack of drive regarding their reads. I believe Cat is doing the exact thing, they aren't really pushing on their reads but are stating them. Therefore, they are a slight scum read.​
  • @Biancasbotique - Null - I'm not 100% sure what to make your actions as I have this weird gut feeling about you. However, I do respect the drive and reads which should warrant a town read. Sadly, deep down, I can't fully push myself to trust you. It's this gut feeling, I have. I personally do wish to say that I don't agree with the sus on you regarding the change of opinions. 12hrs in a 48 day is enough time to warrant a change of opinion. Now if it was like 3-6hrs then maybe that would be suspicious IMO, especially if there isn't enough info to warrant the change.​
  • @Damniel - Slight Town - Similiar to Bianca, I can't exactly trust ya due to my gut. However, any previous suspicions I have had on you have been squashed to the point where I slight Town read compared to Bianca null. I do respect the drive and reads you exhibit. Please note that this is more close to Null than Full Town Read.​
  • @BetsySundrop - Slight Town - I like your push regarding your opinions, especially on me. Maybe this is Bias because I respect the pressure you have been putting on me, but I think my opinions of you warrant a slight town read. I don't have any weird feelings about Bianca or Damniel so you are more closer to town. You have been exhibiting both the drives but I'm waiting on the reads, hoping to see by tomorrow to see if your reads change my opinion on you.​
  • @droqen - Town - Listen, you are doing way too much for me to even think you are Mafia. If you are mafia, I will be shocked and will draw you an Emmy for your performance. The way been handling the pressure from Damniel is quite impressive. My favorite quote down below (at the end of this post) is honestly what I find the most impressive. The quote at the bottom of this post is my absolute favorite like you didn't need to provide an answer because the questioning was terrible. You call out the questioning which raised a valid point when playing this game that I rarely see others do. I feel like the mafia would just go along with the questioning instead of calling it out. I honestly believe you are the most townie out of everyone.​

I just wish to state that my opinions may change if I find anything suspicious or contradicting regarding my current opinions. I do admit that my reads aren't that strong, however, I stick with these opinions because this is what I believe in ATM. I also wish to state that I believe that someone inexperienced is in the Mafia team, the vote for Geoni is obviously motivated because they have deemed them a threat. I feel like more experienced players wouldn't pull such a move early on and would rather vote for somebody who would warrant less to work with you.

good mafia work will always contain some stuff that is genuinely town motivated as long as it doesn't cause trouble for mafia; "is everything i'm doing mafia motivated" is too high of a bar to set, unless you're trying to catch the most extremely novice mafia player
 
So, I thought I would be turning in my reads tomorrow, but the first one was super easy as there were only 7 posts, so it's early. I'm going to try to be less neutral this time around, but some people are just basically neutral on my radar. Everything is as of this point in time, and focusing on d2.

- Possible wolf
- 7 posts, so I can go into the best of the posts here
(201, 218, 221, 224, 248, 307, 310)
- I looked for any detail in her posts, but all of them are very general, and did not point to specific posts or actions, with very little exception
- 218, responded to damniel asking for explanation of deaths, said didn't see it coming (geoni's) and felt b100ming town but understood the votes
- 224, gave explanation on koopa vote - thought he was trying to please everyone and was careful, but now thought he was null
- 248, gave reads on everyone, but again, they were very general, with no specific detail or examples of how those came about (here mentioned an older specific post that still bothered her, but I didn't get the relevance
- 307, response to my joke
- 310, in response to damniel's question to bianca, said likes to stir the pot, finds it easier to find things she doesn't like than does (thx to bianca for pointing that out)

And that's it...The posts are listed if you want to look into them, but I got nothing from them. I don't see how these would be from someone trying to solve anything. She may post more after this.
 
i’ve been thinking a lot about the voting from yesterday

the biggest doubt i have for catharina and bianca being mafia (individually, not teamed necessarily) is their D1 votes. given that we know know that both main wagons were town, I don’t see why wolf!bianca or wolf!catharina would vote off of them. this is where it may be that the two lacked TMI, and thus were making geneuine votes. I would expect mafia to just vote in either wagon because it would ultimately end in a town death

given that geoni was killed despite being a major wagon, it’s clear that mafia really just wanted him dead. this would likely be reflected in at least one mafia voting for him out. this logic points to koopa and obviously me. so from my perspective, koopa would be the mafia member who tried to vote him out instead of killing him.

If i were to accept that, from voting behavior alone, koopa is mafia and bianca and catharina are town for voting outside both town wagons, it would mean that one of droqen or betsy is koopa’a partner

what do people think of this?
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this also extends to antonio for voting for no elimination when a mafia!antonio had two town wagons easily available. so.
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i know i said that koopa is tonally very similar from the last game, but i am basing this new suspicion on his vote over his quietness
 
My Reads, A Read List based on My Reads
Just finished my stream so I'm working on these reads.

Hello guys, as I have promised these are my reads. As I have posted my clean format before posting, I can't jokingly brag about how clean my reads are, sadly. :C

My reads should be based on who I believe is the most suspicious to least suspicious and my reasoning for why.
  • @Koopadude100 - Sussy (Possible Slight?) - I personally have two reasons why I believe Koopa is sus. For once, I believe he was hypocritical when insisting that Bianca should post more when he hasn't posted much? Then there is the fact regarding his opinions. One thing I feel like is universally town (but can easily be mimicked by the mafia) is the willingness to push on your opinions. Koopa has been quite easily been stating their opinion but has been lacking on their push to further understand their opinions or to exhibit pressure on anywho who is sus. I understand he is pretty new to the game but I feel like he is trying to hide under the radar to use his "newbieness" for his benefit. Of course, I can be wrong about this and I'm worried about that. I did try questioning to understand but this suspicion hasn't changed due to the responses.​
  • @Catharina - Slight Sussy - As stated above, I believe Koopa is sus for a lack of drive regarding their reads. I believe Cat is doing the exact thing, they aren't really pushing on their reads but are stating them. Therefore, they are a slight scum read.​
  • @Biancasbotique - Null - I'm not 100% sure what to make your actions as I have this weird gut feeling about you. However, I do respect the drive and reads which should warrant a town read. Sadly, deep down, I can't fully push myself to trust you. It's this gut feeling, I have. I personally do wish to say that I don't agree with the sus on you regarding the change of opinions. 12hrs in a 48 day is enough time to warrant a change of opinion. Now if it was like 3-6hrs then maybe that would be suspicious IMO, especially if there isn't enough info to warrant the change.​
  • @Damniel - Slight Town - Similiar to Bianca, I can't exactly trust ya due to my gut. However, any previous suspicions I have had on you have been squashed to the point where I slight Town read compared to Bianca null. I do respect the drive and reads you exhibit. Please note that this is more close to Null than Full Town Read.​
  • @BetsySundrop - Slight Town - I like your push regarding your opinions, especially on me. Maybe this is Bias because I respect the pressure you have been putting on me, but I think my opinions of you warrant a slight town read. I don't have any weird feelings about Bianca or Damniel so you are more closer to town. You have been exhibiting both the drives but I'm waiting on the reads, hoping to see by tomorrow to see if your reads change my opinion on you.​
  • @droqen - Town - Listen, you are doing way too much for me to even think you are Mafia. If you are mafia, I will be shocked and will draw you an Emmy for your performance. The way been handling the pressure from Damniel is quite impressive. My favorite quote down below (at the end of this post) is honestly what I find the most impressive. The quote at the bottom of this post is my absolute favorite like you didn't need to provide an answer because the questioning was terrible. You call out the questioning which raised a valid point when playing this game that I rarely see others do. I feel like the mafia would just go along with the questioning instead of calling it out. I honestly believe you are the most townie out of everyone.​

I just wish to state that my opinions may change if I find anything suspicious or contradicting regarding my current opinions. I do admit that my reads aren't that strong, however, I stick with these opinions because this is what I believe in ATM. I also wish to state that I believe that someone inexperienced is in the Mafia team, the vote for Geoni is obviously motivated because they have deemed them a threat. I feel like more experienced players wouldn't pull such a move early on and would rather vote for somebody who would warrant less to work with you.

This is good. I plan to finish mine tomorrow, but it takes me a while. I mostly agree with your reads, might have some slight differences.
 
i’ve been thinking a lot about the voting from yesterday

the biggest doubt i have for catharina and bianca being mafia (individually, not teamed necessarily) is their D1 votes. given that we know know that both main wagons were town, I don’t see why wolf!bianca or wolf!catharina would vote off of them. this is where it may be that the two lacked TMI, and thus were making geneuine votes. I would expect mafia to just vote in either wagon because it would ultimately end in a town death

given that geoni was killed despite being a major wagon, it’s clear that mafia really just wanted him dead. this would likely be reflected in at least one mafia voting for him out. this logic points to koopa and obviously me. so from my perspective, koopa would be the mafia member who tried to vote him out instead of killing him.

If i were to accept that, from voting behavior alone, koopa is mafia and bianca and catharina are town for voting outside both town wagons, it would mean that one of droqen or betsy is koopa’a partner

what do people think of this?
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this also extends to antonio for voting for no elimination when a mafia!antonio had two town wagons easily available. so.
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i know i said that koopa is tonally very similar from the last game, but i am basing this new suspicion on his vote over his quietness
I thought you town read Koopa due to stating that Geoni vote was town motivated?
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This is good. I plan to finish mine tomorrow, but it takes me a while. I mostly agree with your reads, might have some slight differences.
Take your time, we have till 2pm EST tomorrow.
 
if we look at the blooming wagon, we have geoni, droqen and betsy. Geoni is confirmed and I still think droqen and betsy are town, which means the whole wagon was town led. that doesn’t usually happen, but i have a hard time seeing either a mafia so i’m going to accept that for now
@Damniel my bad, you were talking about the blooming wagon not the Geoni wagon.
 
i’ve been thinking a lot about the voting from yesterday

the biggest doubt i have for catharina and bianca being mafia (individually, not teamed necessarily) is their D1 votes. given that we know know that both main wagons were town, I don’t see why wolf!bianca or wolf!catharina would vote off of them. this is where it may be that the two lacked TMI, and thus were making geneuine votes. I would expect mafia to just vote in either wagon because it would ultimately end in a town death

given that geoni was killed despite being a major wagon, it’s clear that mafia really just wanted him dead. this would likely be reflected in at least one mafia voting for him out. this logic points to koopa and obviously me. so from my perspective, koopa would be the mafia member who tried to vote him out instead of killing him.

If i were to accept that, from voting behavior alone, koopa is mafia and bianca and catharina are town for voting outside both town wagons, it would mean that one of droqen or betsy is koopa’a partner

what do people think of this?
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this also extends to antonio for voting for no elimination when a mafia!antonio had two town wagons easily available. so.
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i know i said that koopa is tonally very similar from the last game, but i am basing this new suspicion on his vote over his quietness

Something to think about. So from my point of view, a Damniel/Koopa or Antonio/Koopa.
Fits many a sus list...

Would not voting on either wagon be something a wolf would do? I don't know if this would be common or not, but if the town was already suspicious of townies and had wagons on them, it might be easier to sit back and let the town pick each other off. Then they could claim that they didn't vote for either townie, they voted for x, which would create suspicion all around...

That gives a lot to think about, lol.
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Something to think about. So from my point of view, a Damniel/Koopa or Antonio/Koopa.
Fits many a sus list...

Would not voting on either wagon be something a wolf would do? I don't know if this would be common or not, but if the town was already suspicious of townies and had wagons on them, it might be easier to sit back and let the town pick each other off. Then they could claim that they didn't vote for either townie, they voted for x, which would create suspicion all around... but which x? Catharina or Koopa?

That gives a lot to think about, lol.

My sus list was catharina/antonio/koopa. But Antonio has, in my opinion, been taken off that list, and after Bianca's last post she was put back on. So I now have Catherina/Bianca/Koopa. Unless this is devious brilliance on the serial killer level, in which case Bianca was right and I would have Catharina/Damniel/Koopa. 😣 A lot to think about...
 
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Something to think about. So from my point of view, a Damniel/Koopa or Antonio/Koopa.
Fits many a sus list...

Would not voting on either wagon be something a wolf would do? I don't know if this would be common or not, but if the town was already suspicious of townies and had wagons on them, it might be easier to sit back and let the town pick each other off. Then they could claim that they didn't vote for either townie, they voted for x, which would create suspicion all around...

That gives a lot to think about, lol.
as a mafia member, you suffer from TMI, knowing people are town while others don’t. the mafia team knew that the two wagons D1 were both town, and furthermore we know that they wanted geoni dead whether he survived the day or not. i would think at least one mafia member would try to get geoni eliminated so they could use their kill on someone else, which is what makes me sus of koopa now. i guess mafia can vote completely off two town wagons, but I doubt both members would do this
 
as a mafia member, you suffer from TMI, knowing people are town while others don’t. the mafia team knew that the two wagons D1 were both town, and furthermore we know that they wanted geoni dead whether he survived the day or not. i would think at least one mafia member would try to get geoni eliminated so they could use their kill on someone else, which is what makes me sus of koopa now. i guess mafia can vote completely off two town wagons, but I doubt both members would do this

I think in another situation they might, and then make cases for their votes for the d2 vote. But you are right, not in this case, because I believe Bianca voted for catharina, which wouldn't happen if they were both wolf. I'm going to look back, but I think bianca actually went over this. (Might have been someone else). But I think Bianca said that it would be not smart to join the geoni wagon as he was already suspicious, and it would make maf look suspicious, or it could be a frame job. I will find the post, but tomorrow, as it is after midnight, lol, and I need sleep, lol.
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I think in another situation they might, and then make cases for their votes for the d2 vote. But you are right, not in this case, because I believe Bianca voted for catharina, which wouldn't happen if they were both wolf. I'm going to look back, but I think bianca actually went over this. (Might have been someone else). But I think Bianca said that it would be not smart to join the geoni wagon as he was already suspicious, and it would make maf look suspicious, or it could be a frame job. I will find the post, but tomorrow, as it is after midnight, lol, and I need sleep, lol.

One last thing. I have droqen pegged town (not at beginning but from around the voting til now), and it's kind of hard to see a droqen/koopa team.
 
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Also, I can't be here at eod which really isn't good, but I sadly can't make it home on time. So I will post my thoughts and vote before that.
 
@Koopadude100 Who do you think is definitely town?
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My favorite quote down below (at the end of this post) is honestly what I find the most impressive. The quote at the bottom of this post is my absolute favorite like you didn't need to provide an answer because the questioning was terrible. You call out the questioning which raised a valid point when playing this game that I rarely see others do. I feel like the mafia would just go along with the questioning instead of calling it out.
Thanks Antonio :cool:
Trying to take my own advice and spot sneaky mafia trickery rather than simple failure to exhibit towny behaviour.
It's very hard to catch people out on that stuff though.
maybe the right call is to ping people for inconsistent/non-communicative behaviour, because even if you're off-base at least you're out a town player who you can't count on to present their thoughts? I dunno... that's too meta for me to get my head around right now.

~

My off-the-wall Damniel X BetsySundrop mafia theory has only been directly responded to by the pair themselves, and Bianca. Dan and Betsy are presenting mostly intellectual curiousity and light defense - no apparent panicking. Bianca is engaging with it in her latest post, taking it seriously. I'm quite serious about this theory myself; I can't get it out of my head!; maybe I'm trying to next-level galaxy brain the situation too much.

TBH, I think the lack of extremely suspicious behaviour is what first drove my suspicion of Damniel -- nobody is doing anything strictly incriminating in my eyes, so it seems more likely that the mafia player is doing a very good job of hiding their tracks, and in that case I suspect whoever would be the best mafia player. That's highly subjective, but that's how Damniel wound up in my crosshairs. Maybe I need to get out of this line of thinking, because there's no way to differentiate between a perfect mafia player and town. Just have to believe that mafia has screwed up somewhere, and find it.
 
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Summary:
(I don't feel confident in my "reading" abilities yet, so I'm leaning a lot to neutral on everyone.)

My neutral town: damniel

My neutral neutral: geoni, catharina
(Had volt and sheep both in this category, but don't feel comfortable putting antonio or koopadude in it right away)

My neutral slightly wolfy: b100ming, bianca, droqen

Antonio and koopadude - nothing yet, too early but interesting seeing the new takes

Okay, Betsy reading ONLY Damniel as town here earlier nixes absolutely all suspicion I have of the pair being mafia. Entire theory is based on the two of them being very clever, and this is way too bold/simple. Jenga tower conspiracy theory toppled. I'm still not 100% townread on them individually, but there's no way it's the two of them together imo. Am I crazy for reading 9 pages back?!?!
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Also, oh no, wall of text... this is my 4th post in a row... I guess it's a pretty weird hour, but this one is kinda important.

As for who might have killed him, I'm thinking maybe droqen and Bianca. I say that because both of them haven't been as active, and maybe Bianca is inactive because she is on the mafia chat while droqen is trying his best to cover it up.

Conspiracy theory hat on: Are you a new player? (have you played mafia here before?) How are you this comfortable bringing up 'mafia chat' as a concept?
 
Okay, I'm not doing spoilers on individuals anymore because after going back through some things, it's an interconnected spiderweb that is impossible to break down to an individual level. So- my current takes on possible teams-

Catharina/Damniel OR
Koopa/Damniel OR
Catharina/Koopa (not likely)

Shocking, right? I have been damniel's defender it feels like, and usually thought he was town (with a few exceptions). But when Damniel posted his theory, at first I thought it might make sense, and it matched some of my susses (Catharina, koopa). BUT- when I really thought about it, going by that theory, I would have only 2 people to vote for - Droqen and Koopa! Everyone else he took out of the pool. It feels like it's designed specifically to steer myself and droqen to vote for each other. But why? I have had droqen firmly in town since right before the first vote.

And droqen has had damniel on the voting page since right after that first vote. In fact, droqen gave a post listing quite a few reasons damniel is wolfy, post #237. At the time, I thought no way... but now, I look back and read it differently. Example, droqen mentioned the bianca sus and questioned whether it was motivated by actual behavior from bianca, or damniel "pointing to" normal behavior and making it suspicious, and found that Bianca's behavior was not actually all that sus.

I read that and it reinforced my decision to put bianca at my 55/45 town leaning, instead of neutral, but I did not change my town view of damniel. In light of that, it makes me sus why damniel would press me on bianca and then suddenly switch. It did not help that bianca had mentioned something about my posts being random, which i feel they are not, so i was verrry close to putting bianca more wolf. Now I wonder if I read that comment through a "bianca sus" view, courtesy of damniel.

It is very interesting that damniel had bianca on the chopping block for so long and had many reasons, and suddenly now wants to declare her town. I have to wonder if that is because after a fairly good effort to paint her wolf, nobody put her in wolf category. Except one person-koopa, who voted bianca.

So where would koopa come in? What about Catharina. For Catharina, it may be she is the quiet one, paired with a pro. I looked back at the d1 votes too, and it just so happens that the only two people to wait for nearly the last minute were Catharina and damniel, within minutes of each other.

And while we know damniel voted for geoni in that last minute, Catharina voted for koopa. Possibilities-
Catharina is innocent and its just a coincidence.
Catharina is wolf and wanting to paint sus on koopa so that if anyone susses him d2, they can hop on that wagon.
Catharina is town and damniel is ruthlessly throwing his partner, koopa under the bus in order to stay alive. I know what bussing is, because damniel mentioned it just before the last vote, and I had to look it up.

But in that comment, damniel said bussing was stupid. So why would he bus? I think he might if his partner came into the game and wasn't as savvy as his previous partner and was making mistakes. If he thought it would put him at risk, and there was suspicion on his partner, he could gain town points with a last minute minute off the wall theory that 1) got rid of his risky partner and 2) eliminated a strong town player.

If catharina is his partner, it would be a good way to eliminate 2 more townies.

Why do I believe droqen town over damniel? Mostly because of behavior/analyses, but also because droqen posted his vote and commentary first. It makes damniel seem more re-actionary.

I could be wrong on any or all of this, so please, point out where I'm wrong if you think so. But I cannot vote droqen, so for me, something is off here.

I will do summary reads next.
 
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