Mafia Mountainous Mafia: Camp Mafia - Mafia Wins!

[Antonio]

That to be honest statement would be elaborated on once I get access to a computer

 

[Damniel]

I want to give Damniel and Betsy benefit of the doubt cuz I really love both of their posts :')

I'm not sure if I'm "oversteering" by trying to look past while I look at what I do find suspicious.

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look past that*

its always good to reaffirm your town reads so wolves don't slip in there and stay. as long as your tinfoil hat isn't so big that it starts to cook you!

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If I have my vote today, it will be either Antonio and Daniel. Their voting behavior seems off.

Based on what I have seen so far, these are my perspectives on each:

Daniel- He did bring a good sus on me, I would say he is really trying to solve my alignment so townie points for him
Droqen- His logic is same as mine on suspicions and what not so I give townie points for him
Antonio- being inquisitive and trying to get reads from people. Shows great interest in the game. I am giving him townie points
Betsy- based on her first day reads, trying to solve the problems but will she do the same day 2 ? I wonder
koopa and Catharina- on the same page, posts here and there to ask questions, give some few insights.

what

 

[droqen]

its always good to reaffirm your town reads so wolves don't slip in there and stay. as long as your tinfoil hat isn't so big that it starts to cook you!

I was just telling a friend, I feel like a conspiracy theorist!!! We'll see how cooked I get, haha.

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its always good to reaffirm your town reads so wolves don't slip in there and stay. as long as your tinfoil hat isn't so big that it starts to cook you!

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what

huh. I concur

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that second one was just supposed to be a quote of "what"

 

[Antonio]

As for the "To be honest" statement, I wanted to elaborate regarding how I personally believe what the overall mafia meta is due to how everyone has been talking about what mafia/town meta is in this game.

In order to properly explain this, I have to go over absolutes, perspectives, user's experiences, and meta. The thing about playing Mafia is that everyone has a different perspective on how things work regarding town/mafia meta. We each have different perspectives on how things should go depending on alignment due to our own game experiences. However, the thing is, Mafia isn't an absolute game. No one acts the same each time. No one who acts is always coming from a place of truth unless confirmed/disconfirmed by death and/or night action. We can't confirm anything unless there was an action to back it up. Therefore, we shouldn't treat non-confirmed people's statements as absolute, including their own perspective regarding the meta. The only thing we can trust is our own perspective, our own beliefs regarding the meta based on our own experiences. Even if our perspective isn't true, we don't know that. We don't know anything that is true beside the confirmed actions by the Host. All we have are our perspectives and experience.

The reason why I wanted to mention this is because I personally believe that there is no absolute way to play. Everyone's perspective/experience can change. No one always plays the same, regarding the meta. Your perspective doesn't always meet up with other people's perspectives. Even if someone has more experience, they can always lie about if they are on the mafia side. Therefore, no one should follow other people's perspective because there could be no truth about it (if mafia), or their experience may not apply to it. All we should do is necessary trust our own gut and act on how we personally believe to. I'm not saying it's wrong to use your own perspective for justification, I'm just saying there's no way for others to verify and/or others agree with our perspective regarding the meta.

Please note, this has nothing to do with anyone personally. I just noted a high amount of people using their perspectives to justify people's actions and wanted to share my opinion on the matter. For me personally, I tend to pursue people who show a sign of suspicions/hypocrisy because I personally believe that suspicious actions warrant more of a vote compared to a suspicious play regarding my own perspective on the meta. I also pursue people who don't stick with their gut regarding their vote, hence why I was originally against a last-minute wagon, especially when not having a consistent idea on who to wagon.

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huh. I concur

Could you elaborate on this?

 

[BetsySundrop]

I'm sorry but if you known that I have been playing for awhile, wouldn't you know that I don't vote for somebody unless I have some certainty they are sus? My reaction test didn't warrant much besides a slight suspicions on Koopa for coming in and mimicking me.

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Catching up from where I left off this morning. Lots to go through, so I'm starting where i left off, lol

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Catching up from where I left off this morning. Lots to go through, so I'm starting where i left off, lol

On that comment, I actually thought you and koopa came in very similarly, and that you both seemed to just be hopping on the wagon with the most votes at the time.

 

[Antonio]

I'm not saying it's wrong to use your own perspective for justification, I'm just saying there's no way for others to verify and/or others agree with our perspective regarding the meta.

@BetsySundrop this isn't a gotcha moment. I was referring to the overall town/mafia meta, not individual meta. Individual meta can be confirmed based on personal history?

 

[BetsySundrop]

Sowing chaos
Similar thing to what he's accusing bianca of but worse -- this isn't "X, Y, Z are sus," more like making a sweeping statement that it's hard/impossible to blame anyone! doesn't read as frustrated to me (as if he's trying to figure out the puzzle), just bringing up something to confuse those trying to logic it out.


I feel like this is Damniel potentially following through on his own prediction of "mafia come into and plan each day with specific wagons...". i'm swayed by his arguments regarding @Biancasbotique , but i've been trusting in a lot of Damniel's words despite being a bit sus of him the whole game, so i went back and asked, "what if I look at the thread but ignore all of Damniel's claims?" and a lot of these little things popped up and added up. is bianca really that sus, or is she just easy to pin the sus on using this reason? Geoni was slightly town-reading bianca at the end, as well.

On first comment, I kind of disagree. Damniel has not really pushed a single person, even d1, he spotlighted different people. Also, he does list reasons and point out things people are contradictory on.

On 2nd comment, I think the things he pointed out are legit (like the bianca not having catharina on vote list), and that if there is a logical/good explanation, that is taken into consideration. However, I do disagree with damniel on having bianca on the chopping block. The more she explains, the more she moves closer to town for me, and I'm glad someone is pointing out things that go right over my head.

 

[Antonio]

@BetsySundrop this isn't a gotcha moment. I was referring to the overall town/mafia meta, not individual meta. Individual meta can be confirmed based on personal history?

Actually, individual meta can change due to an increase of experience so maybe it's not as accurate.

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Doesn't mean we should share our own perspective regarding personal meta though. Hmm...

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shouldn't***

 

[King koopa]

What exactly do you want to see from Bianca, particularly?

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Pretty much anything. What I want to see most from Bianca though is their thoughts about the geoni death since they claimed that geoni was going to vote them off.
As now my thoughts on who could be mafia:
Still droqen and Bianca. Though some may say technically me and Antonio have less posts, but it's because we just filled for sheep and volt, so it doesn't really count.
Caterina hasn't been posting much either, but she seems less suspicious than both of them.
Antonio just filled so it's hard to tell.
Bestysundrop seems fine as well.
Damienel seems ok though his reactions with geoni seem slightly suspicious but other than that he seems ok

 

[BetsySundrop]

if Damniel turns out to be mafia i'd bet his partner is someone geoni was strongly sussing.

I would agree partly with geoni's sussing, which is why I still have catharina. Koopa, and antonio on my sus list.
However, I just don't have dan pegged as wolf. Why would he point out every little suspicious thing for all players before other players even noticed?

@BetsySundrop this isn't a gotcha moment. I was referring to the overall town/mafia meta, not individual meta. Individual meta can be confirmed based on personal history?

Uhmm...I don't get what you're saying. Sorry, but I really don't understand. I just pointed out how similar you and koopa were upon entrance.

 

[Damniel]

i think antonio has been doing good today and is putting a good effort to solve, so i’m good having them as town for today. I will not vote betsy, droqen, or antonio (from strongest to weakest townread). i will reevaluate these three in the future to reaffirm this

so i’m left with bianca, catharina and koopa. i’ve already stated my thoughts on bianca so I won’t go through it again.

Catharina has a very minimal presence and could be the coasting-mafia type, so i need to hear a lot more from her but she def feels like she’s lurkin.

koopa rn honestly just reminds me last game which isn’t a good thing because the behavior is hard town read really. he’s been the most silent player so far but he was mis-eliminated last game for the same reason. But, like blooming, i can’t say they’re town because nothing they’ve done comes off as town. but, because this very similarly happened last, it wouldn’t surprise me if this is just how they are

im definitely sure that at least 1 mafia is in those three. both wolves in that pool though? not sure, if the compatibility. i’ll inevitably have to recheck my townreads if we hit a wolf in my sus pool, but we’ll cross that bridge went we get there

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im more likely to vote between bianca and catharina tbh. im just getting last game vibes from koopa

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koopa rn honestly just reminds me last game which isn’t a good thing because the behavior is hard town read really.

hard to town read*

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im on mobile pardon my typos lmao

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If he's lackluster day 2 maybe but I would prefer any of b100/Koopa/Cath to him right now, I'll be very surprised if there's not a single wolf in those three.

remembering the words of the dead

i think between the two catharina is more likely the wolf tbh

 

[BetsySundrop]

Did anyone reply to this logic day 1 in a readable way?

Things get interesting here... damniel said play was different, which geoni said he was going to do. But, damniel then explained it in detail after you questioned it. And then immediately following your and damniels long and detailed posts on it, as in the very next post antonio responds:

I don't recall so, my memory is absolutely poor so please don't ask me this.

Those are posts 241, 242, and 243. Either Antonio is not really reading the posts or somthing is off. I don't know if not reading everythong is usually wolf or not, but it's starting to irritate me.

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Did you ever explain this?

Again. Yes. It was already explained, and the tinfoil hat was removed.

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I'm still catching up, but here not many posts later, here is Antonio questioning droqen on if they explained their b100ming vote, and droqen's answer. #251

Yes. Yes he did explain it already. When I asked droqen for their reasoning, they explained it.

 

[Antonio]

Things get interesting here... damniel said play was different, which geoni said he was going to do. But, damniel then explained it in detail after you questioned it. And then immediately following your and damniels long and detailed posts on it, as in the very next post antonio responds:

Those are posts 241, 242, and 243. Either Antonio is not really reading the posts or somthing is off. I don't know if not reading everythong is usually wolf or not, but it's starting to irritate me.

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Again. Yes. It was already explained, and the tinfoil hat was removed.

I have literally stated before in other games that my memory is absolutely poor and I tend to forget things. It doesn't help that I have other irl priorities to focus on while playing the game so It's hard to keep track of everything post like I'm some sort of computer.

 

[BetsySundrop]

I tried to read into the votes and that’s what I initially got out of it. I am not stopping other people from having different interpretations of it (as even now we are talking more about the votes). it would be different if i said “everyone is suspicious from these votes and now I don’t trust anyone”, but I’m still trying to find town and foster collaboration. Like even if your and betsy’s votes weren’t the strongest, I can still rationalize you two as town based on seeing your thought progression and efforts to solve

Ha ha. That's actually what I said. You're all suspicious. I think it's because I don't trust that I see everything, and I don't do well with gut instinct. I could have lunch with jack the ripper and come away thinking "what a nice young man"...
But I do try to outline as best I can all of the reasons I think a certain way.

 

[Antonio]

Pretty much anything. What I want to see most from Bianca though is their thoughts about the geoni death since they claimed that geoni was going to vote them off.
As now my thoughts on who could be mafia:
Still droqen and Bianca. Though some may say technically me and Antonio have less posts, but it's because we just filled for sheep and volt, so it doesn't really count.
Caterina hasn't been posting much either, but she seems less suspicious than both of them.
Antonio just filled so it's hard to tell.
Bestysundrop seems fine as well.
Damienel seems ok though his reactions with geoni seem slightly suspicious but other than that he seems ok

Don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to ask for more posts when you have been lackluster regarding posts?

 

[BetsySundrop]

I guess that makes me suspicious because I haven't read much people either way at the moment.

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IS EOD today or tomorrow?

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IS EOD today or tomorrow?

I find you suspicious (for now), and am looking forward to seeing your stance on everyone and your reasoning behind those takes.

 

[Antonio]

Uhmm...I don't get what you're saying. Sorry, but I really don't understand. I just pointed out how similar you and koopa were upon entrance.

Apologies but you quoted my post without any messages so I automatically presume you were referring to my previous post.

 

[Catharina]

Okay I'm finally back (I've been busy all day) and I'm going to give a quick opinion on everyone:
Droqen- I like his theories (even though it can confuse everyone). And I have a feeling he is really trying to figure everything out. Pretty strong town feeling. I do still not get how I was on not bloodthirsty instead on stance unknown from these quotes:

not bloodthirsty

cath

stance unknown?

bianca

antonio

betsy

you haven't pushed for anyone to be eliminated but have questioned damniel's vote
and at the time i think you'd only made one other post townreading b100ming.
no wolfreads and no apparent interest in the ongoing wagons so read to me as generally unmotivated to d1 elim. (at least, uninterested in publicly supporting/discussing the idea)

I know this is a pretty old post, but I just didn't like the tone, but I'm ignoring it and still feel he is pretty towny.

Damniel- Hard to read, obviously posts a lot and is a good player and I feel like he brings a lot of good content, but he could still just be fooling me. I understand that he thinks I'm sus and the words from geoni don't really help, but eh koopa also doesn't seem mafia to me, so maybe the pool is just incorrect or koopa is fooling me.

Bianca- I don't know how biana's play style is, but I'm meh on her, and I could maybe see them as mafia? I'm going to have to read all the posts again.

Based on what I have seen so far, these are my perspectives on each:
Daniel- He did bring a good sus on me, I would say he is really trying to solve my alignment so townie points for him
Droqen- His logic is same as mine on suspicions and what not so I give townie points for him
Antonio- being inquisitive and trying to get reads from people. Shows great interest in the game. I am giving him townie points
Betsy- based on her first day reads, trying to solve the problems but will she do the same day 2 ? I wonder
koopa and Catharina- on the same page, posts here and there to ask questions, give some few insights.

I feel like everyone is getting town points and I don't really have the feeling that they are trying to find out who is town? (sad part is that I'm basically giving town points to everyone as well, so this is a bit hypocrite).

Antonio- I like how they are telling to follow your gut (does that help town tho) and asks good questions I'm feeling pretty neutral.

Koopa- I really want to see more from koopa and I just like a I stated before I kinda get a weird feeling from his posts, but on the other hand I feel like mafia wouldn't post this little? lol I just feel it would be kinda a sad strategy imo. Also, I just get new player vibes, so I may just let the careful tone of his posts just slide. (this is hypocritical for me to say, lol) So I get towny vibes? I need to see more.

Betsy- I said I liked her attempts to read everyone on day 1, but that could also just be to earn trust, but the posts from today seem pretty good too to me. (damniel/ betsy could be interesting, tho).

It's kinda sad how long this took me without giving that much new content.

 

[droqen]

Could you elaborate on this?

It's strange how @Biancasbotique said that she would vote Antonio or Damniel, and then 12 hours later read you both as "townie points". Maybe it was based on something that occurred in the 12 hours in between? My timeline is not totally clear. But, if I was going to make a clear statement and then change my mind I would personally try to clarify the reason why - or at least acknowledge it.

 

[BetsySundrop]

i read betsy similarly to how i read you, although you have different experience levels; you're very chatty and analytical, happy to make reads. Betsy is similarly bold; it's nice to see her reads!

i love it and i get that it was a joke (a great one, i get a laugh out of it every time), but if i'm going all-in on this "sowing chaos" theory from my other post, it has a similar energy.

this is definitely truth about how betsy is playing! but if you were both mafia it would be equally great as a mafia post supporting your fellow wolf.

1st comment- i think it's the personality type...
2nd comment- a joke, sort of! At that moment in time I had you moving closer to town (no geoni vote, more consistence and detailed explanations before the vote), and also damniel moving closer to town. I think his reaction to the vote was actual surprise over geoni being town. But then you sussed damniel and I was confused all over again.
3rd comment- would be devious...i wish i were an evil genius!

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(i'm going to iso betsy's posts and return with a less adrenaline-biased read)

Have fun. I tend to do the wall thing....