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this is something i'm thinking about... it's hard, on the receiving end, to not appear reactionary, simply by virtue of being second.
i'm trying to be thoughtful of that whenever i read over damniel's response to my initial accusation.
this is something i'm thinking about... it's hard, on the receiving end, to not appear reactionary, simply by virtue of being second.
i'm trying to be thoughtful of that whenever i read over damniel's response to my initial accusation.
It's funny, kind of, but it makes me feel like I've had blinders on, or tunnel vision. I was so invested in the catharina/antonio/koopa that i think i just didn't look elsewhere or consider other options. Either way, I'm gonna post my legacy reads, as I think I'll be killed tonight. If it's you, you are an evil genius and a master of the game lol. Not saying you aren't a genius, but I don't think it's you... I hope...
It is very interesting that damniel had bianca on the chopping block for so long and had many reasons, and suddenly now wants to declare her town. I have to wonder if that is because after a fairly good effort to paint her wolf, nobody put her in wolf category. Except one person-koopa, who voted bianca.
well yeah, but after talking more about bianca to other people (specifically you), i reconsidered bianca in a different lens. thinking about the game through voting patterns (which i initially didn’t think too much about because i didn’t like most people’s rationale). I instead saw past the explanation for people’s votes, and instead thought about their possible goals by voting. i think koopa has a stronger chance of being mafia given geoni’s death. the thing about collaborating and engaging with your “towncore”‘s ideas is that you trust them enough to reconsider your own reads
But in that comment, damniel said bussing was stupid. So why would he bus? I think he might if his partner came into the game and wasn't as savvy as his previous partner and was making mistakes. If he thought it would put him at risk, and there was suspicion on his partner, he could gain town points with a last minute minute off the wall theory that 1) got rid of his risky partner and 2) eliminated a strong town player.
@BetsySundrop hahaha me! i'm the evil genius!! okay, yeah, what you said about 'tunnel vision' and 'blinders' is exactly what i was getting at earlier. it's not that i was thinking "damniel is mafia and therefore his statements are lies and i should ignore them," but more like... "how does it change my opinion if i ignore all his statements?" and the blinders/tunnel vision thing started to creep up. things just looked different. i'm still not sure how to feel about it.
- damniel may be a wolf. i think i've given that topic enough attention on previous pages.
- betsysundrop may be a wolf, but i haven't given her enough attention individually, even though i said i'd iso her posts. she has made a lot of useful but highly neutral posts, i.e. "this is how people voted", as well as questions about how the game works. a few suspicious comments here and there. "Yeah, but we're town. XD" when asked "are you and Damniel wolves?" Cath rightly pointed out: how are you so sure? but i understand how that can be a pretty casual slip of the tongue when towncoring.
- antonio, catharina, bianca... are all trying in different ways to arrive at the truth. uncertain, BUT nothing stands out in a major way to me right now. different personalities but nothing specifically worth noting, read-wise.
- koopadude is sus, in particular you noted the "mafia chat" comment he made regarding his theory of "bianca x droqen" mafia, and that really stood out to me. i wouldn't know enough about mafia chat to make a comment about that.
- and, i strongly do not think [Damniel X BetsySundrop] can possibly be the mafia pair.
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a little more about the damniel situation: he's been a very active and vocal player making lots of really good points. but if i step back a little and remember that he might be mafia and look at the situation as if i cannot trust him -- not his logic, but his intentions -- i really have to unwind a lot of my thoughts to arrive at how i feel myself.
i think i understand where you were coming from, @Antonio, with your passionate post way back when about "decide how you feel for yourself"! he may still turn out to feel innocent to me, but i'm not sure. it's hard to detangle, because restructuring my emotions without the influence of another person's posts has a tendency to paint them in a bad light, because to 'ignore' someone makes me think badly of them, and it's hard to know what to ignore (i.e., do i ignore them defending themselves? if i do that, then accusations thrown their way seem a lot stronger...)
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so, i'm still uncertain on a lot of people because i'm kinda restructuring my feelings from the ground up lol
My legacy reads:
These 2 are my town.
Everything is either explained in earlier posts or explained here.
Droqen- In the beginning, had as wolfy, but then after more interaction, droqen became town for me and has pretty much stayed there ever since. Seems invested in finding the truth, and is good at challenging old thinking. Is not afraid to question his own ideas and change them when his thoughts change, even challenging previous town reads. Also, and this is key to my town read, when presenting a new direction, gives very detailed explanations for every thought, and accepts challenges to them and answers in a considering way. Town.
Antonio- I had initial discomfort with antonio, as both he and koopa entered the game gunning for geoni. It seemed too coincidental that both would do so, and at that point I thought "team". Especially as up to that point nobody had really given off full wolf vibes to me, which I thought could be explained by the fact that the previous players were largely inactive. Then Antonio voted no elimination. When questioned about it, gave an explanation. Antonio's suspicion of last minute wagon activity was not a good read to me at first. Why protest last minute wagons unless you are afraid of it being you, and damniel had just before that asked geoni how he would feel about voting antonio. However, looking back at the timing, I don't think there was actually time for people to interact and then join an antonio wagon, which makes his protest seem more legitimate. Later, antonio explained that last minute activity could be a sign of mafia activity, which explains his protest.
I also questioned antonio on quite a few of his posts which were like repeats of other posts. It seemed he either wasn't paying attention or was using it as a way to avoid suspicion or blend in by asking the questions on everyone's minds. However, when I pressed him on this and gave plenty of examples, I learned of the memory disability. I apologize again. Felt so bad for that. Also, he gave a complete, detailed reads thing, which laid out his thinking quite nicely.
So Antonio is town for me.
i am a little sus of bianca, for multiple times commenting that we have similar thought patterns. it might be an attempt to form a kinship with me to make me more trusting?
sorry @Biancasbotique !! i've had similar thoughts, that i think we are often coming from the same place. i don't want to think you're Manufacturing Trust, but you can never be too careful. you know how it is with mafia lurking.
Probably damniel. He's the only person who's posts don't seem suspicious at all.
Bestysundrop seems ok though I'm a little suspicious on why she'd pair me with Caterina since she voted for me and mafia probably wouldn't do that to their partner, unless they are trying to keep seeming as towny as possible so no one will suspect them.
Droqen seems ok now too as I changed my mind on them from recent posts.
As for Caterina and Antonio, slowly becoming suspicious. Not as much as formely droqen, but getting to there. Caterina voted me for seemingly no reason, and Antonio seems to just be trying to get me out. They probably aren't both mafia though, as Caterina has less posts than me, so if that's what's she's trying to do, we'll it's a wierd tactic.
As for Bianca, she'll probably just get mod killed, so I'll unvote her since she'll probably get taken out anyway for being inactive
i think koopa has a stronger chance of being mafia given geoni’s death. the thing about collaborating and engaging with your “towncore”‘s ideas is that you trust them enough to reconsider your own reads
You and koopa both pushed geoni and both voted geoni, so if you are saying koopas geoni vote made him suspicious, you realize you are saying your own geoni vote would be suspicious. Both would be suspicious, no? I will be interested in seeing how people vote today, and I may change my vote, but it's very hard to see what is behind all of this.
The thing for me is when I realized you put forth a theory that would have me voting droqen eventually. Do I have town blinders on where droqen is concerned? ....well, maybe. But his post on you made a lot of sense. In the beginning, I had droqen as wolf, but this did change (explained in earlier post), and I would need more than "wolfs always join wagons" to change it back.
Also, for your theory, I can think of several reasons wolf would not have joined the wagons. One is: Rather than sway either wagon, they could vote for "anyone else", and still eliminate the one they wanted that night.., 2 town gone, easy. The town picks itself apart and they are above suspicion.
Or: if single case and not team, whoever votes for geoni, a wolf would vote for one of them, then kill geoni to paint automatic suspicion on the one they voted for.
While I dont think bianca is wolf, any of these would also fit catharina. I was actually going to vote catharina today, but then your latest posts and re-reading some of droqen and biancas old posts made me look at things differently. Especially when I re-read biancas posts about previous games with you. And if I could think of several motivations for wolf to not join wagons, you'd think an experienced player could do so as well, which makes me suspect your motives for saying it would not happen.
So I've covered my suspicions, and covered my town leanings, now for the last- bianca!
I have no idea. I had bianca wolfy neutral, but then right before the first vote, she gave her reasoning, etc in a post and it made sense to me, so I ended up voting b100ming over bianca or droqen. Also, when droqen made the dan sussing bianca point, and then bianca posted more, I put her in town (ish). Then I thought it was odd when bianca had in a post something about my posts being random and not as detailed? I thought the opposite, so that was odd, but I could have misread that. Overall, I wouldn't vote bianca today, and I think she is still town leaning-ish.
Bestysundrop seems ok though I'm a little suspicious on why she'd pair me with Caterina since she voted for me and mafia probably wouldn't do that to their partner, unless they are trying to keep seeming as towny as possible so no one will suspect them.
As for Caterina and Antonio, slowly becoming suspicious. Not as much as formely droqen, but getting to there. Caterina voted me for seemingly no reason, and Antonio seems to just be trying to get me out.
It was based on all the possibilities from after my reading of Damniel's theory as sus. Not a serious proposal, and I believe I did include that I thought it unlikely.
It might be in a different post, but I also mentioned that if wolf, catharina could have voted for one of the wagon voters, and if that person got out, she could put suspicion on whoever she voted for.
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I'm out for the next couple hours probably. Back later.
You and koopa both pushed geoni and both voted geoni, so if you are saying koopas geoni vote made him suspicious, you realize you are saying your own geoni vote would be suspicious. Both would be suspicious, no? I will be interested in seeing how people vote today, and I may change my vote, but it's very hard to see what is behind all of this.
yes, i acknowledged this. which is why, through my perspective, koopa is mafia. i believe that at mafia tried to get geoni voted off, so, knowing im town and blooming was too, it has to be koopa. i acknowledged how the same logic can apply to me for other people
given that geoni was killed despite being a major wagon, it’s clear that mafia really just wanted him dead. this would likely be reflected in at least one mafia voting for him out. this logic points to koopa and obviously me. so from my perspective, koopa would be the mafia member who tried to vote him out instead of killing him.
I don't really think that's true. Yeah some of his and geoni's posts seemed a little ocf, but it's not that suspicious to be mafia.
And both since you have the least amount of posts next to me and Bianca and you just voted me for seemingly no reason yet no one else did
Also, for your theory, I can think of several reasons wolf would not have joined the wagons. One is: Rather than sway either wagon, they could vote for "anyone else", and still eliminate the one they wanted that night.., 2 town gone, easy. The town picks itself apart and they are above suspicion.
Or: if single case and not team, whoever votes for geoni, a wolf would vote for one of them, then kill geoni to paint automatic suspicion on the one they voted for.
While I dont think bianca is wolf, any of these would also fit catharina. I was actually going to vote catharina today, but then your latest posts and re-reading some of droqen and biancas old posts made me look at things differently. Especially when I re-read biancas posts about previous games with you. And if I could think of several motivations for wolf to not join wagons, you'd think an experienced player could do so as well, which makes me suspect your motives for saying it would not happen.
i think that there’s a big risk that mafia took by confirming that both wagons were town by killing geoni. i think mafia really wanted geoni dead and having him eliminated would be a easy way. blooming would be left alive for people to continue to speculate, and they could use their kill on another threat. if the maf team is opportunistic, they should’ve gone for geoni at least, even if it was only one of them
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like betsy, if you had concluded that at least one person on the blooming wagon was mafia (atm i think the whole wagon was town but just follow this hypothetical), you would logically conclude that droqen is that mafia person. even if that would point directly to yourself, at least in your perspective, you know the other person is mafia
I don't really think that's true. Yeah some of his and geoni's posts seemed a little ocf, but it's not that suspicious to be mafia.
And both since you have the least amount of posts next to me and Bianca and you just voted me for seemingly no reason yet no one else did
I did kinda explain actually. So also for you it means less posts = more sus?
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Still getting new player vibes from koopa just like last time and I feel that he may are a bit lost thus the posts are a bit off, but I don't really feel like voting him as I don't know if mafia would play like this.
I gtg now and I won't be able to get back before eod. And I think I'm gonna go vote damniel as I could see him as mafia and it could give us more info (I admit kinda sheeping tho but I honesty just agree with the rest).
In fairness to Betsy, I did say the wrong word. I shouldn'nt have said random because your posts are really analytical of the game. What I meant was actually you have actual reads on first day vs. 2nd day which is more analytical or responding to other posts.
I don't know what is going on with Koopa as he is insistent that I have been inactive ever since as if he ignored all my other posts.
Oddly enough, I agree with Catharina. I don't know if Koopa will play like this if he were mafia.
i think that there’s a big risk that mafia took by confirming that both wagons were town by killing geoni. i think mafia really wanted geoni dead and having him eliminated would be a easy way.
I agree- they would have had to really want him gone, as otherwise yes, leave him alive for suspicion. That makes sense. There were plenty of people pushing for him to be gone. And he used his dying breath to implicate several, which because he was town made them all automatically suspicious to me.
