New censor bypass rule

[Oblivia]

I have no issues with this discussion as it stands, so yes, comments about how this thread will be closed soon don't really have a place here. I always encourage people to report something if they feel it needs attention rather than posting comments such as these, as they tend to derail the thread and are never on-topic.

I also want to touch upon a few things being mentioned here. The reason we implemented this rule in the first place is because we actually do have a bank of filtered words, and it was getting so chock full of censor bypasses and workarounds that it literally wasn't feasible to continue adding to it. Every word has to be manually added, and since people are always coming up with new variants of curses and words with obscure symbols, it got to the point where we realized that it's simply not at all possible or realistic to keep adding every word people came up with, thus why the rule came to be. Swearing has NEVER been allowed on TBT; people just found ways to go around that by adding a "?" or "?" to their words after finding that the site automatically filtered the actual word. This always seemed rather counterintuitive to me, as I'd assume people would realize something isn't allowed after seeing that it's filtered, but it obviously didn't quite happen that way as the amount of posts that bypassed the censor had risen exponentially over the last few months.

I understand the argument of "kids already know the word" or "they're going to learn eventually!", but that doesn't mean they need to see/learn these words here. We want the site to be relatively family friendly, and dropping f-bombs in every post doesn't fit into the long-term ideals we see for the site. There are more than enough sites out there that have no guidelines whatsoever about what you can or can't post, so it shouldn't be necessary to curse on a site that actively tries to prevent it with a filter. It's not hard to get your point across without employing the use of prohibited words.

I'll admit that I have no issues with cursing or when people curse around me in general conversation, but I can understand that there are certain venues where it's not appropriate or allowed, and it's not hard to respect that or adjust to what's expected when there's a rule in place. The TBT userbase is full of intelligent and verbose folks, so it shouldn't be too hard to think of an alternate word when you're feelin' the urge to spew expletives.

 

[That Zephyr Guy]

The TBT userbase is full of intelligent and verbose folks, so it shouldn't be too hard to think of an alternate word when you're feelin' the urge to spew expletives.

What the jiminy crickets did you just flaming say about us, you little bozo? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Cub Scouts, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret camping trips in Wyoming, and I have over 300 confirmed knots. I am trained in first aid and I’m the top bandager in the entire US Boy Scouts (of America). You are nothing to me but just another friendly face. I will clean your wounds for you with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this annual trip, mark my words. You think you can get away with saying those shenanigans to me over the Internet? Think again, finkle. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of MSN friends across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the seminars, man. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your bake sale. You’re frigging done, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can tie knots in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in road safety, but I have access to the entire manual of the United States Boy Scouts (of America) and I will use it to its full extent to train your miserable butt on the facts of the continents, you little schmuck. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your silly tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goshdarned sillyhead. I will throw leaves all over you and you will dance in them. You’re friggin done, kiddo.



but in all seriousness oblivia, you're the best. Really well worded.

 

[LethalLulu]

-snip-

"We want the site to be relatively family friendly, and dropping f-bombs in every post doesn't fit into the long-term ideals we see for the site"
This is a much better way of saying what I said where TBT is a business that needs to appeal to their target market. 4 years of business/finance classes and I tend to lean towards that phrasing.

 

[Alienfish]

Yah, I'm not easily offended, either. There's really only one one-word that offends me. Other things that offend me are people not being accepting (in terms of gender more-so than anything else, but race, etc, etc, included). That's really it as far as I can think of. There are other things that bother me for certain reasons, like the new trend of saying "kill yourself", "kys", and "kill myself" in humorous/not serious situations as it desensitizes the phrase/idea, and someone who it actually suicidal may not be taken as seriously. It's just something that should always be taken seriously in every aspect as it is a very real, and very big issue.

I don't prefer the rule either, but I understand why it's in place. TBT is, in a sense, a business (albeit they don't make money from this) who needs to be appealing to their target market, which in this case is the younger crowd.

Yeah, I don't use "gay" or race words in an offensive manner either, I know my limits for those things. Yeah those trendy, social media slurs people throw around can be really annoying but yeah I try to ignore those, better let it die than fuel the stuff imo. And yeah if people post those things in a serious way and you can tell of course they need proper help.

Aren't most of the people above the kid age here, or I don't know that thing could probable be more fluid nowadays depending on how much you are exposed to things.

 

[Red Cat]

No, it's not your responsibility to be respectful around them, but it's what a decent human being would do. Casual swearing may not be offensive to you, but it can be to a lot of people. Not one person can determine what can and cannot, or does or does not offend people. Everyone is an individual with different beliefs, backgrounds, and history. It's up to you if you want to censor yourself or not around some people, but you should think about how it will reflect upon you as a person.

Also, similar to how I never swore around my religious friends, I also never swore around my friends that were significantly younger than me. I said in my original post "and my friends who are a handful of years younger than me." IMMEDIATELY after I said I never swore around my religious friends, but it's really funny how that went completely unnoticed.

For the age thing, I wouldn't swear around little kids either. Everyone using this site should at least be a teenager though, so I don't see the issue with "corrupting" little kids. I don't think I need to say much more about it, which is why I didn't bother to respond to that point before.

You can still be a "decent human being" even if you swear around religious people. There is a difference between making someone uncomfortable and offending them. Like eating meat around a vegan might make that person uncomfortable, but it would be crazy to call that "offensive". I believe it's the same way with swearing around someone who is uncomfortable with swear words. I wouldn't swear at religious people, but just posting something with swear words for a general audience to read is pretty harmless and if it makes someone really uncomfortable, that person is free to scroll down to the next post.

The TBT userbase is full of intelligent and verbose folks

Which rock have you been living under?

 

[Alienfish]

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Well the thing with people countering the filter is because you obviously can do it by adding these letters or just use other workarounds, if you were actually more strict than just "hi lol post that way of the s-word now we can officially ban you" people would probably be less verbal abusing, imo. Also a simple asterisk filter will probably won't so as easily for that prevention either.

And those bad words are probably just more used in certain threads and convos rather than over all, I don't see it too abusive so it would be harmful for someone just glancing through it once or twice, I highly doubt people go around it 24*7 often... or I just avoid the bad parts, I don't know. If someone is personally flaming or hating, that's another thing but that's already in the rules, so.

And sure I can post a couple of good posts without bad words but it seems like a bit of useless official rule add when people are probably gonna continue in other ways.

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For the age thing, I wouldn't swear around little kids either. Everyone using this site should at least be a teenager though, so I don't see the issue with "corrupting" little kids. I don't think I need to say much more about it, which is why I didn't bother to respond to that point before.

You can still be a "decent human being" even if you swear around religious people. There is a difference between making someone uncomfortable and offending them. Like eating meat around a vegan might make that person uncomfortable, but it would be crazy to call that "offensive". I believe it's the same way with swearing around someone who is uncomfortable with swear words. I wouldn't swear at religious people, but just posting something with swear words for a general audience to read is pretty harmless and if it makes someone really uncomfortable, that person is free to scroll down to the next post.

Yeah, I guess the issue people take stuff personal way too much nowadays sadly. And yeah if I find an annoying or just boring topic/thread I usually just let it be or if it breaks the rules I report it.

Yeah I think there are 10-12 year old people here but they seem mature enough to handle this from what I have seen, so.

 

[LethalLulu]

Yeah, I don't use "gay" or race words in an offensive manner either, I know my limits for those things. Yeah those trendy, social media slurs people throw around can be really annoying but yeah I try to ignore those, better let it die than fuel the stuff imo. And yeah if people post those things in a serious way and you can tell of course they need proper help.

Aren't most of the people above the kid age here, or I don't know that thing could probable be more fluid nowadays depending on how much you are exposed to things.

Exactly. I really do hope it dies out. Internet trends come and go, so I have some hope. This is what happened with "rape" jokes, and using it in video games. People stopped using it because it desensitizes people to the idea. The person who used that word in terms of a call of duty game may not be one to rape, but his friend next to him says "oh, that's a cool thing" and be one to act like that. Media spread this idea, and slowly the word died in this context. Same with "********". I rarely hear that nowadays, but I used to hear it constantly, and even I used to use it.

Also, please excuse me for using these words for anyone reading.

Most people I see on here are aged between 10 and 16. We just talk to a lot of the more mature users, like some of the people in the flight rising thread for example.

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For the age thing, I wouldn't swear around little kids either. Everyone using this site should at least be a teenager though, so I don't see the issue with "corrupting" little kids. I don't think I need to say much more about it, which is why I didn't bother to respond to that point before.

You can still be a "decent human being" even if you swear around religious people. There is a difference between making someone uncomfortable and offending them. Like eating meat around a vegan might make that person uncomfortable, but it would be crazy to call that "offensive". I believe it's the same way with swearing around someone who is uncomfortable with swear words. I wouldn't swear at religious people, but just posting something with swear words for a general audience to read is pretty harmless and if it makes someone really uncomfortable, that person is free to scroll down to the next post.

However, a lot of people who use this site are younger. I have seen a lot of 10-12 year olds personally. Offensive things tend to make people uncomfortable. If a phrase or action is causing a negative reaction out of that person, it is offensive to them, at least in this context. I'm really trying to read your post with an open mind, but you keep talking like this site allows swear words. You have to keep in mind that this is entirely against the rules, so the readers should never be subjected to swears on this forum.

If this were reddit, then yes, I'd agree with you.

 

[Alienfish]

Yeah I guess a lot of people act more older and mature than they are, and then we have the reverse, still that only adds more to that people can take stuff. While I can understand the filter for more serious slurs and cusses adding another paragraph seems a bit.. meh. I'd just focus on those who are actually disturbing.

@Lulu yeah I don't see those things too much nowadays either which is a really good things. Also let alone a few of the bad Brewster threads here I don't see people being too abusive and annoying unless it's some obvious troll wanting to provoke things.

Also in general I'm not much for censoring stuff, it's better to explain what's bad (even if some things might have cultural differences and people coming from different background), I think most people can agree on certain things that would appear here. Unless it's a really offensive thing like the n-word or such I don't see why like that word for poop we can't type out should be censored at all.

 

[LethalLulu]

Yeah I guess a lot of people act more older and mature than they are, and then we have the reverse, still that only adds more to that people can take stuff. While I can understand the filter for more serious slurs and cusses adding another paragraph seems a bit.. meh. I'd just focus on those who are actually disturbing.

@Lulu yeah I don't see those things too much nowadays either which is a really good things. Also let alone a few of the bad Brewster threads here I don't see people being too abusive and annoying unless it's some obvious troll wanting to provoke things.

Also in general I'm not much for censoring stuff, it's better to explain what's bad (even if some things might have cultural differences and people coming from different background), I think most people can agree on certain things that would appear here. Unless it's a really offensive thing like the n-word or such I don't see why like that word for poop we can't type out should be censored at all.

Definitely. I can think of some people who I thought were in their late teens and turned out to be 12. But when I look at my old posts from Gaia when I was 10-12 years old, I was definitely not one of those. I was awkward, stupid (more so naive), and annoying.

Yah, so things can change for the better. He word just needs to get out that these things shouldn't be acceptable.

It's like Oblivia said, it's the purpose of the site to be family friendly, so they establish rules to enforce that atmosphere.

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Also, about the vegan being offended by someone eating meat, imagine a vegan-restaurant. Meat and animal products aren't allowed, but some guy keeps sneaking in meat and eating it there. Should the vegans not be there because they are offended by the person eating meat near them?

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^ To Red Cat, sorry

 

[Alienfish]

Yeah although anything "family friendly" tend to be way censored as for US standards (I know this site has staff from around the world so probably a bit invalid), but sometimes things get a bit too politically correct with these things. And I doubt people go and post these thing all the time. Oh well.

About Gaia, I agree with you I can't say I was any better when I first joined good thing I improved from that...

And yes if they really are/were that age they were almost a bit too mature

 

[LethalLulu]

Yeah although anything "family friendly" tend to be way censored as for US standards (I know this site has staff from around the world so probably a bit invalid), but sometimes things get a bit too politically correct with these things. And I doubt people go and post these thing all the time. Oh well.

About Gaia, I agree with you I can't say I was any better when I first joined good thing I improved from that...

And yes if they really are/were that age they were almost a bit too mature

I can't really have a counter to that since I don't know too much about other cultures other than France (only because I'm doing research on it for a business class). I mean, I think not swearing is a (very) minor inconvenience anyone can handle. If kids are mature enough to see it (if, not saying they are), then teens/adults should be mature enough to not use them.

 

[Red Cat]

Also, about the vegan being offended by someone eating meat, imagine a vegan-restaurant. Meat and animal products aren't allowed, but some guy keeps sneaking in meat and eating it there. Should the vegans not be there because they are offended by the person eating meat near them?

I don't know why someone would do that, but yeah that would be very rude. So would swearing in a church. I was just talking about general public areas. TBT isn't specifically a religious website or a site for kids, so that's why I disagree with censoring swear words.

 

[seliph]

or a site for kids

But it's a kid-friendly site about a game that is primarily targeted at children.

ANYWHO I'm still confused as to why anyone even cares when you can still ****ing swear. Look I just did it, and you know which swear I used. So why hate on the filter?

 

[That Zephyr Guy]

I don't know why someone would do that, but yeah that would be very rude. So would swearing in a church. I was just talking about general public areas. TBT isn't specifically a religious website or a site for kids, so that's why I disagree with censoring swear words.

>Animal Crossing website
>Admin says they want to stay family friendly
>Somehow not a site for kids

 

[LethalLulu]

I don't know why someone would do that, but yeah that would be very rude. So would swearing in a church. I was just talking about general public areas. TBT isn't specifically a religious website or a site for kids, so that's why I disagree with censoring swear words.

But it's against the rules. The analogy stands that two people are breaking rules in a place meant for certain people to feel safe. In TBT's case, it's people of all ages. It may not be a site specifically for kids, but it is aimed to be a safe place for them, as the vegan restaurant would be.
Whether you disagree with it or not isn't the point, it's what the site wants for its community.

 

[Alienfish]

I can't really have a counter to that since I don't know too much about other cultures other than France (only because I'm doing research on it for a business class). I mean, I think not swearing is a (very) minor inconvenience anyone can handle. If kids are mature enough to see it (if, not saying they are), then teens/adults should be mature enough to not use them.

Yeah, of course swearing and such are not used in children's series and stuff either, but as we both said the audience here should be mature enough to take it whether it's by reading it or not using it at all. And as I said I don't think whatever is too overused let alone a few troll threads or a lot of people posting in Bothering Thread but then it's mostly asterisks anyways.

 

[LethalLulu]

Yeah, of course swearing and such are not used in children's series and stuff either, but as we both said the audience here should be mature enough to take it whether it's by reading it or not using it at all. And as I said I don't think whatever is too overused let alone a few troll threads or a lot of people posting in Bothering Thread but then it's mostly asterisks anyways.

I understand, but that's not TBT's intention, just as Oblivia mentioned.
I don't go in the Bothering Thread too much. I actually slowed down on using TBT because of pokeheroes, so I don't go into many threads.

 

[Alienfish]

Yeah I'm not too active either nowadays because I talk to most friends outside of the site anyways so I mainly get on to reply to people I don't talk to outside it.

Still I think it's a bit of a weird excuse to use for that. I mean sure let the filter be but if people are so eager to work around let them. As long as they don't flame around like fireworks exploding what's the harm if you change one letter to a foreign one? Also in general family friendly is not the same as catering to teenagers(or around that/older). Each to their own though I guess.

 

[LethalLulu]

Like meeeeeee

But that completely defeats the purpose of having the filter. On League, they have a filter and actually discourage people from going around it. One of the quotes in the loading screen quotes says "A chat filter is not a reason for you to excessively curse!" Although they don't enforce this rule as much, since it is significantly harder (and virtually impossible) to monitor when compared to a forum. (Especially since the community is a lot smaller)
Forums don't need a reason or justification to have a rule, if they have it, it should be enforced. Family friendly does include that, actually. Family friendly implies all ages, which inherently includes teenagers. It also could completely ignore age and just imply that you wouldn't swear around your family. (from grandma, to uncle, to sibling, etc)

 

[Alienfish]

I haven't played that in a good chunk of years either, but to get back on track... I generally assumed you meant family as in a more politically correct way of dealing with it and forbidding most stuff which probably couldn't be done either cause a large audience are teenagers which will probably post more or less bad stuff anyways (not saying I was better on certain forums I was back in the days either), so I think they should change the focus. If people really gets on with their families then it's another things, but then maybe the wrong site too.

I think most people swear more or less, but yeah I'm generally against it because it's the wrong focus and as long as you don't go and use racial or overly sexual slurs (or use gay as an insult etc.) I don't really care if one would bypass it (now I'm not a staff member, just venting what's on my mind).