Opinion on gender roles?

[Croconaw]

I dont think we should be encouraging as such very young children to take on traits that are of the other gender that they are not currently leaning towards already. Or if they are leaning into it, then pushing them further to it.

I don’t think we should be encouraging kids to be a certain way, period. I feel that parents are a huge influence on their kids, and the area they grew up in is an even bigger influence. If a child is leaning towards anything, we should encourage it — so long as it’s not illegal of course. I’m a very big believer that people should do whatever they desire in life because learning from mistakes is very crucial. If you’re not making mistakes, you’re not learning or experiencing, and you’re left wondering. If a female child wants to play sports or take on more masculine attributes or activities, it should be encouraged. If it’s not, it’s very bad for someone at her age, and it would affect her long into adulthood. She’ll be pretending she’s someone she isn’t, and that’s not good. If after she takes an interest in male activities and decide they’re not for her, that’s okay, too. She found out for herself and not because mommy told her “that’s not for girls!” I had very lenient parents and was given more freedom at a young age than other kids, and I can’t say how thankful I am for that. Because of this, I was able to become very dependent and think for myself. Not have others think for me.

 

[-Lumi-]

I've no issue with them really.
99% of the time they're pretty accurate and what the people participating in them want.
Of course hardly anyone out there ticks all the boxes, but they tend to tick quite a lot of them.

And of course some "gender' things like females being passive or males aggressive, are very dated. But I doubt many even consider them gender role things any more.

I dont think we should be encouraging as such very young children to take on traits that are of the other gender that they are not currently leaning towards already. Or if they are leaning into it, then pushing them further to it.

But i don't think it's up for anyone other than a person themselves, once they're old enough to form their own identity, to chose their own identity.

I wanted to reply to this bit in particular because it echoes something I said above.

I've been a preschool teacher as well as worked with kindergarten aged children and first/second graders. When I wrote above that I'd "encourage my boys to wear dresses during dress up time or the girls wear the "boy costumes"." this wasn't me saying that the boys could only wear dresses and the girls could only wear "boy costumes" or that I would only actively positively engage with the children when they were wearing costumes that didn't fit gender stereotypes.

It was more of a, I'd see a little boy who'd grab onto a dress to put it on and then another boy would tease him. So I'd tell him it was OK for him to wear the dress if he wanted because it is. Likewise for the girls, who would often get teased when they'd wear super hero outfits, police uniforms, basically anything that wasn't a princess dress. I'd reassure them that it's okay to wear whatever costume they want, because it is. And it's healthy to give children an environment where they know they can make safe choices to express themselves in various ways while they explore and grow.

Similarly it's important to reinforce that girl/boy colours, girl/boy jobs (ie: "boys can't play with baby dolls cause that's a mummy job!!" "only boys can be police officers because we are big and tough"), don't exist. Everything overlaps. And if we teach children while they're little that, "pink is only for girls and if you eat off a pink plate that means you're not a real boy" that carries on with them as they get older, too.

 

[Moritz]

I don’t think we should be encouraging kids to be a certain way, period. I feel that parents are a huge influence on their kids, and the area they grew up in is an even bigger influence. If a child is leaning towards anything, we should encourage it — so long as it’s not illegal of course. I’m a very big believer that people should do whatever they desire in life because learning from mistakes is very crucial. If you’re not making mistakes, you’re not learning or experiencing, and you’re left wondering. If a female child wants to play sports or take on more masculine attributes or activities, it should be encouraged. If it’s not, it’s very bad for someone at her age, and it would affect her long into adulthood. She’ll be pretending she’s someone she isn’t, and that’s not good. If after she takes an interest in male activities and decide they’re not for her, that’s okay, too. She found out for herself and not because mommy told her “that’s not for girls!” I had very lenient parents and was given more freedom at a young age than other kids, and I can’t say how thankful I am for that. Because of this, I was able to become very dependent and think for myself. Not have others think for me.

Perhaps it's just me or a sign of changing times but I dont even see sports as being a gender role.
Perhaps certain sports being more for one gender than the other, but I've never seen anyone say women can't be physically active

Post automatically merged: Sep 4, 2021

I wanted to reply to this bit in particular because it echoes something I said above.

I've been a preschool teacher as well as worked with kindergarten aged children and first/second graders. When I wrote above that I'd "encourage my boys to wear dresses during dress up time or the girls wear the "boy costumes"." this wasn't me saying that the boys could only wear dresses and the girls could only wear "boy costumes" or that I would only actively positively engage with the children when they were wearing costumes that didn't fit gender stereotypes.

It was more of a, I'd see a little boy who'd grab onto a dress to put it on and then another boy would tease him. So I'd tell him it was OK for him to wear the dress if he wanted because it is. Likewise for the girls, who would often get teased when they'd wear super hero outfits, police uniforms, basically anything that wasn't a princess dress. I'd reassure them that it's okay to wear whatever costume they want, because it is. And it's healthy to give children an environment where they know they can make safe choices to express themselves in various ways while they explore and grow.

Similarly it's important to reinforce that girl/boy colours, girl/boy jobs (ie: "boys can't play with baby dolls cause that's a mummy job!!" "only boys can be police officers because we are big and tough"), don't exist. Everything overlaps. And if we teach children while they're little that, "pink is only for girls and if you eat off a pink plate that means you're not a real boy" that carries on with them as they get older, too.

I hope I didn't cause offense there
If its just letting them do what they want in such situations then I think there is nothing wrong with that at all.
Growing up I played with dolls of babies and pushed them around in a pram and stuff. Never got told I could not. I was even allowed to take one home from play school with me.

I only take issue with those who try to actively encourage their kids to act like the opposite gender.

Or take their curiosity and form it into their identity. Nothing makes my blood boil like seeing those parents who say their child is transgender and call them by the opposite pronouns to their sex, when their child is like 3 years old. Bro that's an infant. They don't even know what gender is yet. Let them grow up and work this stuff out on their own first.

 

[.: Meri :.]

Gender roles are ridiculous, aren't based in actual reality (note that gender roles can vary wildly between countries and cultures), and do nothing but cause harm. They can make people who don't fit into those boxes feel like there's something wrong with them, and they can make people who do more-or-less fit feel bad for "enforcing stereotypes", when all both groups are doing is just being true to themselves.

Funnily enough, as a nonbinary person who typically comes across as feminine, I get hit with this in two different and equally-obnoxious forms—when I'm showing traits or interests that are typically viewed as feminine, then clearly I'm just faking being nonbinary for whatever reason. But when I do strike people as more masculine, then they try to "educate" me on how liking certain things/being a certain way "doesn't make [me] less of a woman".* Like, which is it—am I deliberately faking it, or am I just "confused"?
(*And just for clarity's sake, because I'm not sure if this comes across in my wording or not, I don't consider myself nonbinary because I have a mix of traits/interests stereotypically considered masculine and feminine. I think that's true of plenty of people across gender.)

But yeah, anybody can like anything, dress however they want, have any sort of hobbies/jobs, etc., regardless of their gender. There's nothing wrong with that, whether it means you fit into these roles or not, as long as you're not trying to push that onto anyone else.

 

[Midoriya]

Yeah, I don't like them either. Just because I'm interested in things a lot of guys wouldn't be interested in doesn't make me any less of a person. People should be allowed to like what they like (as long as it's not illegal).

 

[nintendofan85]

Perhaps it's just me or a sign of changing times but I dont even see sports as being a gender role.
Perhaps certain sports being more for one gender than the other, but I've never seen anyone say women can't be physically active

I'm not sure I'd 100% agree. I mean, I've known many girls who played sports, but there's still a stigma many girls face that they're a "tomboy" if they play them.

 

[Stikki]

I'm not sure I'd 100% agree. I mean, I've known many girls who played sports, but there's still a stigma many girls face that they're a "tomboy" if they play them.

That's interesting, I never even thought that being labelled a tomboy might upset somebody. Again, because I was a tomboy myself and I never thought of it as a bad thing, I didn't care if someone called me that, cos it was just like "Yeah I know" and went on my merry way haha. Shows how little I've thought about all this!

I suppose with sports, on the other end of the scale, some of the male gymnasts I knew would occasionally get told they were playing "girl sports" and the boys who did ballet definitely got a hard time from their peers for being "girly" or "weak". Stupid really because male ballet dancers are some of the strongest people in the world - they have to be as they have to do a lot of lifting, as in lifting other dancers, whilst dancing. Not an easy task and takes a lot of strength to do hours of it at a time to absolute perfection. Yet a girl like me could play football (soccer) with all the kids in the area we lived and not be excluded for "being a girl". So I guess all sides probably face some obstacles.

Actually that reminds me, at one of my school's girls were suddenly banned from doing rugby in P.E and it was just sort of brushed off as "something to do with breasts" by the P.E department :/ The boys were not banned from taking netball, but all the girls HAD to do netball whilst the boys could chose. None of them wanted to do netball though, as they considered it a "girl sport".

I guess the world is ultimately changing and I just hope everyone can find their place in it. It's always hard to feel like you don't belong.

 

[Millysaurusrexjr]

I'll be honest, as a woman I personally find the idea of being a housewife that does the cooking/cleaning/sewing/etc. appealing, BUT I also think a woman in power is badass and empowering.

I think people should just do what they want. Why are baby boys not allowed to wear pink? Why is it that if a woman says she doesn't want children, she is told "You'll change your mind!" Why aren't men allowed to wear dresses and skirts? Why are young girls expected to play with dolls and boys are expected to like sports? All these arbitrary rules - it really is a social construct. Gender roles are dumb, just let people live the way they want

 

[nintendofan85]

Why are baby boys not allowed to wear pink?

You know, ironically, pink was originally considered to be a man's color...

 

[mogyay]

theyre dumb and useless and just a construct that's made up and has no meaning. i hope one day there's a world where we aren't shoving children into a box from the moment they are born and able to express themselves freely in life , its easy for me to say 'well i conform to most 'female' stereotypes and im fine with that' but i dont know what its like to live in a world where its hasnt been shoved down my throat all my life

 

[Princess Mipha]

Let everyone like, what they want to like. It's pretty much all I can say to it.
Yes, I do have quite some pink stuff for the baby girl that I'm going to have soon, but not because it's a girl, but because I absolutely love the color pink, lol. I was super happy when I recived some clothes / items that aren't pink from family, because I know that I might have "overpinked" it

But well, for example my father has bought something similar to this and I am so gonna put my little girl into that. Who cares if it's supposed to be for a boy. It's cute and if she's not too tall already, she IS going to wear it.

 

[nintendofan85]

But well, for example my father has bought something similar to this and I am so gonna put my little girl into that.

That outfit is adorable!

 

[Neb]

As an assigned male at birth person, being trapped by gender roles has been difficult. Aside from gaming and hiking most of my interests are considered feminine. I also present myself in a pretty flamboyant way. I can’t tell you how many comments I’ve gotten for not looking “masculine enough.”

Gender norms restrict how people express and view themselves. By keeling them for centuries on end many people live less comfortable lives. It’s baffling that things as arbitrary as clothing and toys are still assigned gender norms

 

[DJStarstryker]

As someone who is female and has never wanted kids, I also hate gender roles because some people like to try to act like your life is pointless if you are able to have children and do not.

Umm, sorry. I did not have a childhood because I was pretty much forced to raise my siblings as if I was their parent. I am not giving up my adulthood too. I don't care who thinks I'm selfish. I don't exist just to be a baby making machine, sorry. There are more than enough humans in the world anyway.

 

[Croconaw]

As someone who is female and has never wanted kids, I also hate gender roles because some people like to try to act like your life is pointless if you are able to have children and do not.

Umm, sorry. I did not have a childhood because I was pretty much forced to raise my siblings as if I was their parent. I am not giving up my adulthood too. I don't care who thinks I'm selfish. I don't exist just to be a baby making machine, sorry. There are more than enough humans in the world anyway.

I’ve also been very adamant about not wanting kids. I feel that kids can hold you back from focusing on what you want in life. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “I’d love to do that, but I got family” or “…but I have kids.” I’m not anti-children by any means, but you cannot tell me they don’t hold you back in certain aspects of life. I’m very happy single and without children. I don’t want to go too off topic from the main point of this thread though.

 

[Stikki]

As someone who is female and has never wanted kids, I also hate gender roles because some people like to try to act like your life is pointless if you are able to have children and do not.

Umm, sorry. I did not have a childhood because I was pretty much forced to raise my siblings as if I was their parent. I am not giving up my adulthood too. I don't care who thinks I'm selfish. I don't exist just to be a baby making machine, sorry. There are more than enough humans in the world anyway.

I’ve also been very adamant about not wanting kids. I feel that kids can hold you back from focusing on what you want in life. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “I’d love to do that, but I got family” or “…but I have kids.” I’m not anti-children by any means, but you can tell me they don’t hold you back in certain aspects of life. I’m very happy single and without children. I don’t want to go too off topic from the main point of this thread though.

Just adding that even as a parent myself, I totally get it and absolutely agree. People don't have the right to pressure others to make life choices that are theirs. Everyone has their own path and choices to make and not everyone wants the same things out of life in the same order. So yeah, I applaud you both for openly taking this stance and thank you for saying it, because so many women I know keep thoughts like this mostly to themselves or to a select few for fear of the rude and intrusive comments.

 

[k e r f u f f l e]

Gender roles can be excellent. They can also be a curse. They shouldn't be viewed as a box one has to fit into- more so an outline to help individuals find healthy mediums for who they are.

I've seen gender roles being exploited growing up, so I used hate them. Now I understand that- if applied with respect and middle ground- they can help places like households run effectively.

 

[Corrie]

They're outdated, plain and simple. The fact that they're still being enforced in today's day and age is really hurtful to everyone. I know that everyone out there has been negatively effected by them at some point in their life.

 

[Envy]

Gender roles are nonsensical. We are all people. We are all equal, and deserve all of the same opportunities. We should be able to choose the way we live our lives. "Traditional" gender roles are a patriarchal thing and exist only to keep us women down for absolutely no reason. Screw that.

The thing is that regardless of the way a society sees what being a woman means, a large amount of women will naturally come to want children. So don't get mad at those of us who choose to not. Society will not collapse. Trust me. Just as it will not collapse because I'm a lesbian.

 

[.: Meri :.]

Gender roles can be excellent. They can also be a curse. They shouldn't be viewed as a box one has to fit into- more so an outline to help individuals find healthy mediums for who they are.

I've seen gender roles being exploited growing up, so I used hate them. Now I understand that- if applied with respect and middle ground- they can help places like households run effectively.

I don't understand why the way a household is run needs to be based on gender at all, though. Wouldn't it be make more sense to base things off of everyone's individual skills/preferences/etc.? And how would that work for households with same-gender couples?