Politics General Discussion Thread - "USA Presidential Election 2016" Editon

[oath2order]

Lol ok.
We already challenged you during the actually election (I bet you aren't even old enough to vote, lol) and you lost.

You and your stupid liberal comments won't make Donald Trump less of our president, and if you are looking for educated responses, turn back a few pages and read up on everything Karen wrote. No need for Trump supporters to constantly repeat themselves because you guys won't take a loss. Get over it there is nothing you can do. Sorry everything didn't go your way. Thanks.

I'm sorry, but you do understand that not everybody has to follow in lockstep with the president, right?

 

[Kaleidoscopes]

I love how Donald Trump's new website has a section asking people how they think America can be made great. Here's an idea: maybe get somebody as president who already knows how to make America great?

He also has a "help wanted" page. You're not even in the White House yet and you already need help?

This isn't "voicing your opinion" more so than it is setting up the tinders for a flame war. The snide remarks really aren't needed, come on man I thought you were better than this. Moving past this, what is wrong with him asking the American people directly what they want? Better than someone just going out on a whim and making changes based on what they "think" the people want.

Already challenged me? I'm British. I live in the UK. What the hell made you think I was voting? Oh, wait, you haven't read a single thing I've said here, have you? If you had, you would've known that already. Nice try!

Less of a president? Can that man become any less of a president? To repeat myself for the thousandth time, this is a man who thinks planned parenthood is an "abortion factory", thinks Muslim Americans should be abolished until he can "figure things out", "can't decide", on transsexual rights, wants to surrogate individual states (which is what his stance on same-sex marriage will result in), is a complete pervert who calls women "big fat pigs", and has been accused of being a rapist multiple times, including by his very own ex-wife. Oh, and just recently the KKK have claimed him to have "reunited [their] people".

You can't justify a single thing about that. Go ahead and try. You Trump goons are all the same, refusing to believe the truth about him. You vote for singular reasons and couldn't care less about America's future.

I waste my breath. It goes in one ear and straight out the other, doesn't it?

I acknowledge the things that Trump had said... but Hillary has a lot of flak on her too through the WikiLeaks, yet so many people refuse to read them. Didn't you keep bringing up Trump's rape allegations - which are nothing more than allegations - awhile back? People keep giving the reason that we shouldn't be silencing their voices in the event their allegations are true, in which case you should be agreeing to read and consider these as well. Using FunnyJunk as a middle man because they seem to compile only what is necessary from /pol/ and other sources of information. Read them in order. Honestly, Trump is a godsend compared to Hillary if any of these hold any grain of truth - but if we are going to keep bringing up things that are nothing more than speculation then things must be considered from both sides.

http://funnyjunk.com/channel/4chan/Cheese+pizza/yyXmLll/
http://funnyjunk.com/Possible+new+info+about+the+pizzagate/funny-pictures/6086254/
http://funnyjunk.com/Besta+pizza+cheese+pizza/funny-pictures/6087385/
http://funnyjunk.com/Occult+blood+rituals/funny-pictures/6078575/

Source of Elijah Wood on Hollywood's Pedophilia Problem: http://variety.com/2016/film/news/elijah-wood-pedophilia-hollywood-problem-1201781021/

I know it all sounds like some tin-foil hat level conspiracy but the pieces fit together so well it is scary. If you want anymore links from any of the news articles you may see then let me know; or you can just feel free to search the headline. Right now I have to go eat dinner, please keep the discussion civil everyone and peace for now.

 

[dierefuji]

Educate yourselves on his views, political claims, and policies, and then maybe you'll have the authority to call me dumb. Nobody has been able to challenge anything I've said here without resorting to cheap jokes and insults.

Should be common knowledge by now that the man is complete and utter trash. Gotta say it like it is, just like his supporters keep justifying their blatant discrimination with. Thanks.

you've been doing literally the same thing, you've been making smug, snide comments and trying to act simultaneously morally superior and intellectually superior
just saying fam

 

[Cory]

Already challenged me? I'm British. I live in the UK. What the hell made you think I was voting? Oh, wait, you haven't read a single thing I've said here, have you? If you had, you would've known that already. Nice try!

Less of a president? Can that man become any less of a president? To repeat myself for the thousandth time, this is a man who thinks planned parenthood is an "abortion factory", thinks Muslim Americans should be abolished until he can "figure things out", "can't decide", on transsexual rights, wants to surrogate individual states (which is what his stance on same-sex marriage will result in), is a complete pervert who calls women "big fat pigs", and has been accused of being a rapist multiple times, including by his very own ex-wife. Oh, and just recently the KKK have claimed him to have "reunited [their] people".

You can't justify a single thing about that. Go ahead and try. You Trump goons are all the same, refusing to believe the truth about him. You vote for singular reasons and couldn't care less about America's future.

I waste my breath. It goes in one ear and straight out the other, doesn't it?

1. planned parenthood is an abortion factory and needs to be defunded immediately
2. Muslim americans should have a quota not a ban. extensive background checks are necessary. look what happened with immigration to germany
3. transgender people should go in the bathroom that corresponds to their sex organ
4. it is the states right to choose about gay marriage, not the federal government, same goes for gun laws, and weed
5. the women are liars that seek attention, why did they all come out at once? oh thats right because theyre liars
6. donald wants nothing to do with the kkk

 

[Bowie]

you've been doing literally the same thing, you've been making smug, snide comments and trying to act simultaneously morally superior and intellectually superior
just saying fam

Which is exactly what you just did. You're just upset because I'm calling out someone you support. If it were Hilary I was on about, you'd eat it right up. I understand why you might think I'm being deliberately rude, though.

This isn't "voicing your opinion" more so than it is setting up the tinders for a flame war. The snide remarks really aren't needed, come on man I thought you were better than this. Moving past this, what is wrong with him asking the American people directly what they want? Better than someone just going out on a whim and making changes based on what they "think" the people want.



I acknowledge the things that Trump had said... but Hillary has a lot of flak on her too through the WikiLeaks, yet so many people refuse to read them. Didn't you keep bringing up Trump's rape allegations - which are nothing more than allegations - awhile back? People keep giving the reason that we shouldn't be silencing their voices in the event their allegations are true, in which case you should be agreeing to read and consider these as well. Using FunnyJunk as a middle man because they seem to compile only what is necessary from /pol/ and other sources of information. Read them in order. Honestly, Trump is a godsend compared to Hillary if any of these hold any grain of truth - but if we are going to keep bringing up things that are nothing more than speculation then things must be considered from both sides.

http://funnyjunk.com/channel/4chan/Cheese+pizza/yyXmLll/
http://funnyjunk.com/Possible+new+info+about+the+pizzagate/funny-pictures/6086254/
http://funnyjunk.com/Besta+pizza+cheese+pizza/funny-pictures/6087385/
http://funnyjunk.com/Occult+blood+rituals/funny-pictures/6078575/

Source of Elijah Wood on Hollywood's Pedophilia Problem: http://variety.com/2016/film/news/elijah-wood-pedophilia-hollywood-problem-1201781021/

I know it all sounds like some tin-foil hat level conspiracy but the pieces fit together so well it is scary. If you want anymore links from any of the news articles you may see then let me know; or you can just feel free to search the headline. Right now I have to go eat dinner, please keep the discussion civil everyone and peace for now.

A man like Donald Trump, who goes around saying he's gonna make America great, who sees himself as a super rich, super powerful, super confident individual asking for help as his first post on his site is just funny to me. How can he be so sure he's gonna make America great "again" if he doesn't even know what people want?

As for Hilary, I am fully aware of the situation with her emails and all the conspiracies that surround her, but everything I have said about Trump on this thread, excluding the rape allegations (as they are just allegations), are 100% true and not speculation at all, so, I don't think speculating about Hilary is very fair in this case.

Not trying to start any arguments. I'm just stating facts. These are facts. "He is an alleged rapist" are the words I used, because he is, and from his history of blatant sexual harassment, I wouldn't be surprised if he has raped women, honestly.

1. planned parenthood is an abortion factory and needs to be defunded immediately
2. Muslim americans should have a quota not a ban. extensive background checks are necessary. look what happened with immigration to germany
3. transgender people should go in the bathroom that corresponds to their sex organ
4. it is the states right to choose about gay marriage, not the federal government, same goes for gun laws, and weed
5. the women are liars that seek attention, why did they all come out at once? oh thats right because theyre liars
6. donald wants nothing to do with the kkk

Excuse you?

Planned parenthood is an abortion factory? Never heard such rubbish in my whole life. How the hell can you stop funding planned parenthood anyway? Do you even know what planned parenthood is?

I agree with tougher immigration laws, something Hilary wanted too.

Trump has a history of anti-LGBT activity, all of which I've mentioned here before.

No, it is not the states right to decide. You should be able to marry whoever you want anywhere in America. Why shouldn't you be able to?

You don't know that. Nobody knows for sure, but with his history of sexual harassment (spying on girls in their dressing rooms, when they were naked, and talking about grabbing women by their pussies), I wouldn't be surprised if he has raped women before.

Trump should prevent this reunion from happening, then. He's the president, after all. Make a statement. They are his supporters.

 

[Cory]

the gay marriage thing. 10th amendment, its not about if he supports gay right or not
the states HAVE THE RIGHT to choose
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

 

[oath2order]

the gay marriage thing. 10th amendment, its not about if he supports gay right or not
the states HAVE THE RIGHT to choose
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The Supreme Court has the right to interpret the Constitution. The Supreme Court states that the states do not have the right to decide whether or not they allow same-sex marriages.

 

[Bowie]

the gay marriage thing. 10th amendment, its not about if he supports gay right or not
the states HAVE THE RIGHT to choose
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

I want answers for all of my concerns, not just gay marriage. If you are a Trump supporter, you should be able to answer these. Surely before you voted (assuming you even did) you knew and trusted what he was saying, and did your own research like I have.

But, from the time the Constitution went into effect more than two centuries ago, courts at both the federal and state levels have shared the authority to interpret what the words of that basic document mean, case by case. And as Oath has kindly pointed out, the Supreme Court has power over it.

Same-sex marriage is legal in all states. Trump has no right to just scrap that and make every state decide for themselves. Why fix something that isn't broken?

 

[KermitTea]

Trump is definitely not as LGBT friendly as I'd like him to be, but please let's put this into perspective.

First of all, he hasn't even taken office yet.

Secondly, he has many friends that are LGBT and he has supported them heavily. I believe that Trump still holds some traditional Christian values (don't quote me on that, I read it somewhere if I remember correctly) which is why he can't make it law to allow same sex marriage. So I believe, by letting the states decide, he is already compromising heavily. Imagine if Pence were President. Now that would be an absolute nightmare.

So let's keep up hope! And remember that Trump is one of the most (not fully!!!) pro-LGBT Republican candidates in history. He has said multiple times at rallies that he will do what he can to protect LGBT rights. For now, I am holding on his word to that, and let's see what happens. Yes, I know that he wants to appoint a conservative SC judge, but that doesn't mean that Trump will completely destroy the LGBT community like many are saying. He does care about the American people.

- - - Post Merge - - -

And also, interesting to note. After Trump's meeting with Obama, he is compromising on healthcare law.

Yet, Mr. Trump also showed a willingness to preserve at least two provisions of the law after Mr. Obama asked him to reconsider repealing it during their meeting at the White House on Thursday.

Mr. Trump said he favors keeping the prohibition against insurers denying coverage because of patients’ existing conditions, and a provision that allows parents to provide years of additional coverage for children on their insurance policies.

Source: WSJ

So, I think Trump is a pretty fair guy. I really really do think he wants the best for America.

Edit - linky http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-willing-to-keep-parts-of-health-law-1478895339

- - - Post Merge - - -

I love how Donald Trump's new website has a section asking people how they think America can be made great. Here's an idea: maybe get somebody as president who already knows how to make America great?

He also has a "help wanted" page. You're not even in the White House yet and you already need help?

I have to disagree with this. He is receiving input from the people and I think that's what a President should do! Whether he listens to them is another story, but at least he's willing to take the feedback in the first place. He's also giving an opportunity for regular folks to help him, and I think that's quite special. What's a President, or a government in that matter, without all its officials and workers? Of course help is needed, and for him to reach out to the people is awesome in my opinion.

- - - Post Merge - - -

As for electoral college...well there's no real answer to that, in my opinion. California would decide the President if it were to go by popular vote. In Australia, voting is mandatory, which creates quite a few problems! We have so many uninformed votes that it's actually quite sad. So I think I'd rather have voting by choice, rather than having mandatory voting. Maybe a compromise between popular vote and electoral college? Weight it 40/60 respectively? I really don't know Democracy is complicated.

 

[Bowie]

I have to disagree with this. He is receiving input from the people and I think that's what a President should do! Whether he listens to them is another story, but at least he's willing to take the feedback in the first place. He's also giving an opportunity for regular folks to help him, and I think that's quite special. What's a President, or a government in that matter, without all its officials and workers? Of course help is needed, and for him to reach out to the people is awesome in my opinion.

You know who he will be listening to? Mike Pence, who supports shock therapy for gay people. You shouldn't have a man like that anywhere near you as president. He should know better than to work with people like that in the first place.

I think that it's 100% fine for him to ask for help. I just thought it was pretty funny when you consider how full of himself he seemed early in his campaign, acting like he was gonna change the world with the swipe of his finger. The sooner he realises that he does need help and does need to consider other people's needs and desires, the better. My only issue is that it has took him to become president for him to acknowledge this.

I still disagree that he is pro-LGBT, but I agree with you on a number of other things, so perhaps it's best just to leave it at that. Time will tell what he has in mind for America anyway. Not much anyone can do except peacefully protest.

 

[KermitTea]

You know who he will be listening to? Mike Pence, who supports shock therapy for gay people. You shouldn't have a man like that anywhere near you as president. He should know better than to work with people like that in the first place.

I think that it's 100% fine for him to ask for help. I just thought it was pretty funny when you consider how full of himself he seemed early in his campaign, acting like he was gonna change the world with the swipe of his finger. The sooner he realises that he does need help and does need to consider other people's needs and desires, the better. My only issue is that it has took him to become president for him to acknowledge this.

I still disagree that he is pro-LGBT, but I agree with you on a number of other things, so perhaps it's best just to leave it at that. Time will tell what he has in mind for America anyway. Not much anyone can do except peacefully protest.

Hmm...I don't think he will implement all of Pence's crazy ideas. If you look at his board of directors (forgot official term, but it's on the website), it's looking pretty fair right now. I agree Pence is quite the lunatic but I really do have faith in Trump to be better than Pence's puppet. And I think asking people for input after becoming President is more of a campaign strategy, because if he did it while he was in the Republican primaries or when running against Hillary it'd make him look bad I guess? Not sure. Now that he's elected, he has the power to carry out what the people want so that's why I think he's doing it now.

 

[dierefuji]

You know who he will be listening to? Mike Pence, who supports shock therapy for gay people. You shouldn't have a man like that anywhere near you as president. He should know better than to work with people like that in the first place.

*leans into mic* wrong

 

[oath2order]

*leans into mic* wrong

> Mike Pence once supported the use of federal funding to treat people "seeking to change their sexual behavior."

I mean he never actually said he supported gay conversion therapy, but that's clearly something he wants. When the Republican National Committee chair was asked about if they supported it, they responded with "It's not in the platform".

That is not a denial. That is dodging the question.

Mike Pence is an intelligent politician who knows what words to use to tacitly state his support on gay conversion therapy without actually outright supporting it.

 

[-Apples-]

Here are some interesting facts about the election that's not contributing to the debate:

Trump is the first president to not have served in the military or hold office before election
This is the first presidential election since 1948 where both candidates are from New York
Trump is the oldest president to be elected, beating Reagan's previous record

 

[Bowie]

*leans into mic* wrong

And you think it's okay to have forms of gay conversion therapies? Why are you supporting people like this?

Oath got it right before me.

 

[pocky]

Weird how in 2016 people are still debating civil rights. Shouldn't we all be equal?

I can understand people agreeing with Trump's economical views. I don't agree with them, but I can understand them and I can respect them. What I can't understand and what I can't respect are the people that want to take our rights away.

Two men getting married isn't going to hurt anyone.
A trans woman using the women's bathroom isn't going to ruin this country.
A person's ability to do good or evil isn't determined by the color of their skin.
(these are all general statements not necessarily related to Trump's campaign)

This last bit is probably an unpopular opinion but I have to say it: while we're at it we really need to stop antagonizing all Trump supporters. I think in part Hilary lost the election because instead of trying to bring people over to her side she chose to call Trump's supporter's "deplorables." But in truth I feel that not all of Trump's voters voted for him because they agreed with his bigoted remarks, but rather out of ignorance/because they weren't fully informed on Trump's views. Not everyone follows the news, some people go out and vote without knowing **** about their candidates (this goes both ways) And other people vote a certain way because they were raised to see the world one way, but can change their opinions when you reason with them/show them a different perspective of things. So the smart thing would be to educate and treat these people with respect so that they'll join our side for the next election.

 

[moonford]

Can we just take a look at the Presidential-Elect of the USA for a moment?

 

[Bowie]

Can we just take a look at the Presidential-Elect of the USA for a moment?

View attachment 188355

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[Kaleidoscopes]

A man like Donald Trump, who goes around saying he's gonna make America great, who sees himself as a super rich, super powerful, super confident individual asking for help as his first post on his site is just funny to me. How can he be so sure he's gonna make America great "again" if he doesn't even know what people want?

Trump already has a 100 Day Plan. http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days Regardless of whether or not you agree with them, it is not like he has zero ideas in the bank. From what it sounds like he is asking for feedback more than anything, but for some reason I can't seem to find this "Help" page that you describe on his website. If you could pass me a link I would greatly appreciate it.

As for Hilary, I am fully aware of the situation with her emails and all the conspiracies that surround her, but everything I have said about Trump on this thread, excluding the rape allegations (as they are just allegations), are 100% true and not speculation at all, so, I don't think speculating about Hilary is very fair in this case.

Well I am glad that you at least acknowledge them. I'm not going to tell you what to believe, you can believe in whatever you want. I have no power to dictate what you believe. However, I have seen some users here generalize all Trump supporters of being "racist, sexist, ableist, etc." and that is simply not true. I do not believe this to be the case with you, but that part of my post was more directed toward everyone. While it is true that Trump received support from groups such as the KKK, it is not the case with everyone that they voted for him because they agreed with his remarks.

I believe you may know that already (hopefully you do) but for anyone else who is so completely spiteful of Trump supporters right now; our reasons for rooting for him are not selfish. Whether or not the e-mails are true, what they contain is a very legitimate thing to be concerned about. Reading them alone is enough to make you feel sick, as the ideas alone are very rotten to the core. The things they described are much worse than anything Trump has actually said or done, and given WikiLeak's credibility and the research /pol/ has done to connect the dots it is very reasonable why people would believe them to be real.

Not trying to start any arguments. I'm just stating facts. These are facts. "He is an alleged rapist" are the words I used, because he is, and from his history of blatant sexual harassment, I wouldn't be surprised if he has raped women, honestly.

And I agree with you... but at the same time he is innocent until proven guilty and posting about those allegations time and time again just feels like beating a dead horse. At the same time, I wouldn't be surprised if Hillary was pulling a facade to gain voters considering her shady past. All we can really do from here on out regarding either of them or their allegations is to see how everything plays out.

 

[KermitTea]

Weird how in 2016 people are still debating civil rights. Shouldn't we all be equal?

I can understand people agreeing with Trump's economical views. I don't agree with them, but I can understand them and I can respect them. What I can't understand and what I can't respect are the people that want to take our rights away.

Two men getting married isn't going to hurt anyone.
A trans woman using the women's bathroom isn't going to ruin this country.
A person's ability to do good or evil isn't determined by the color of their skin.
(these are all general statements not necessarily related to Trump's campaign)

This last bit is probably an unpopular opinion but I have to say it: while we're at it we really need to stop antagonizing all Trump supporters. I think in part Hilary lost the election because instead of trying to bring people over to her side she chose to call Trump's supporter's "deplorables." But in truth I feel that not all of Trump's voters voted for him because they agreed with his bigoted remarks, but rather out of ignorance/because they weren't fully informed on Trump's views. Not everyone follows the news, some people go out and vote without knowing **** about their candidates (this goes both ways) And other people vote a certain way because they were raised to see the world one way, but can change their opinions when you reason with them/show them a different perspective of things. So the smart thing would be to educate and treat these people with respect so that they'll join our side for the next election.

I totally agree with the last part of your post!

As for the first part, yes. That is what we as millenials / the progressive generation to be true. I stated it before but for other people, it is different. They've known for all their lives that marriage is between a man and a woman, and using my previous (bad) analogy, it's like saying Christmas is going to be moved to December 25th.

Also, there is the issue of "safety" that many are worried about. Some people are afraid that a few may abuse the privilege that transgender people have to use the bathroom of their new sex. Like if you have disgusting guys claiming that they are transgender just to go to the ladies' bathroom...I can see why people are against it.