Pro-life or Pro-choice

[AppleBitterCrumble]

pro-choice all the way!

as a high school teen who has big (and by big I mean I need to work incredibly freaking hard all throughout college) dreams, if I were to get pregnant I would abort the baby. Now I'm not saying that I'm going to be reckless and sleep around, obviously protection should be used but that doesn't guarantee that you will never get pregnant. I think that if you are able to financially and mentally able to support and love a child then by all means bring them into this world. But myself only being so young and with student debt in my near future, as of right now I can't see myself being able to raise a child.

 

[Tessie]

the thing isn't sapient; there is no more awareness in a fetus than a roach"

well it depends on how far along the fetus is gestational wise.
aborting a fetus with viability outside the womb i think is a totally different idea and morality than aborting a fetus a couple weeks after fertilization

 

[nintendofan85]

All I know is, if abortion was made illegal, it would basically be like Prohibition, but likely worse.

 

[Alienfish]

All I know is, if abortion was made illegal, it would basically be like Prohibition, but likely worse.

Well considering how some countries have it already, definitely yes.

 

[EpicGamer12]

I don't think it is possible to define the argument as pro-choice vs. pro-life. They are two different arguments.

The argument of pro-choice is about women having sovereignty over their own bodies.
The argument of pro-life is about the the life of an unborn child.

Both of these topics are extremely important, and I don't believe one trumps the other in any circumstance. I think if more people took the time to understand both sides of the argument, it would not be such a huge breeding ground for hatred in society.

 

[Mayor Kera]

I'm pro-life.

 

[lowaltitude]

i agree about the third trimester part. i almost find it terrible if one was to abort a perfectly healthy baby that is able to already independently survive outside the uterus, despite what the mothers reasons are (assuming she is healthy as well).

well it depends on how far along the fetus is gestational wise.
aborting a fetus with viability outside the womb i think is a totally different idea and morality than aborting a fetus a couple weeks after fertilization

The thing is, even when babies are born at the 'right' time (after 9 months), they still cannot survive on their own. That is why we humans have to nurse our babies for such a long time after they're born, and why young giraffes can walk the day they're out. If women carried their babies for as long as they would actually need to develop, the mother would 100% not survive.
Many people like to use this argument, but no fetus would ever be able to survive outside on its own in the first place.

 

[Alienfish]

The argument of pro-choice is about women having sovereignty over their own bodies.
The argument of pro-life is about the the life of an unborn child.

Both of these topics are extremely important, and I don't believe one trumps the other in any circumstance. I think if more people took the time to understand both sides of the argument, it would not be such a huge breeding ground for hatred in society.

Well let's say pro-choice as in it should always been the woman's choice here. Simple as that. I never heard of people doing abortion in the last trimester unless it's some rare condition but hey do what they want. As long as people don't mess with something that should be a human right they are free.

Regarding pro-lifers I've yet to see a non-bull**** argument and those people basically only always pull the "lol a fetus is a human life the moment sperm and egg meet" argument or similar. I don't think anyone would go back to the 50s-60s with illegal abortions and even more risks. Some countries are still stuck with heavily religion or not laws from that era that makes you a murder for wanting to remove it even if you are raped or if you miscarriage, they only know what they do to try and pull it out with a gallows or such if they can't afford the illegal methods.

 

[Bosmer]

Definately pro choice. I get annoyed being told that I should have a child at my age, like I'm still young and I'm not ready to have a child right now. I'm greatful my parents don't put that pressure on me, but the ones who do are my 'friends' who became recent mothers. Like I don't need to explain myself? it's none of your business. I'll have one when I'm ready, and if I'm not I'm not.

 

[Tessie]

The thing is, even when babies are born at the 'right' time (after 9 months), they still cannot survive on their own. That is why we humans have to nurse our babies for such a long time after they're born, and why young giraffes can walk the day they're out. If women carried their babies for as long as they would actually need to develop, the mother would 100% not survive.
Many people like to use this argument, but no fetus would ever be able to survive outside on its own in the first place.

By independently survive, I mean without any medical interventions in order to support any under-developed respiratory or cardiovascular system. Basically without medical assistance, the infant would die.
That's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about aborting a healthy far along developed fetus that their body is able to support them in a homeostasis manner without the need for medical assistance in order to live. That, to me, is a sentient, functional, and independent human being.
Obviously if you don't feed ANYTHING it will eventually die. If you don't feed an adult human for some time they will die too. That goes for any stage of life. You can use the same argument for a toddler, or a child who needs their parents to feed and provide for them in order to live, but otherwise can survive physically on their own, in that their organs are functional if given nutritional needs.

As I said before, I'm glad late abortions are very rare though as I do not support those (I think they account about 1% of all abortions).

 

[LadyDestani]

I am pro-choice, even though I don't think I could ever have an abortion myself. Each person's situation is unique and if you haven't dealt with their particular set of circumstances, I don't think you can imagine what they are going through. I've talked to women who have contemplated abortion and some went through with it. Each one had their own reasons, but it was still an agonizing choice for them and they made their decision with not only their future but the future of the child in mind.

If you can't provide for a child financially, mentally or emotionally, then I don't believe that child should have to suffer because of it. You can talk about adoption, but there are far too many children without homes and families now. It is much more likely that if the child was given up, it would end up being bounced around in a foster care system, which is also no way for a child to live. I think that in these types of situations it's better for the child to be aborted before it has any consciousness or self-awareness than to grow up feeling unwanted and unloved.

The world is also overpopulated as it is. I don't believe we should be forcing unwanted children into the population to grow those numbers and cause more strain on the environment and the economy.

In a perfect world, there would be no need for this debate, but unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world.

 

[kiwi-strawberry]

oh boy, repost time!

show me someone that's pro-life and not just pro-fetus **** everything else


and to add to that, all "pro-life" anti-abortion arguments are just about controlling women and nothing else

100% agree with this they don't actually care about the ""baby"" most of the time

- - - Post Merge - - -

By independently survive, I mean without any medical interventions in order to support any under-developed respiratory or cardiovascular system. Basically without medical assistance, the infant would die.
That's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about aborting a healthy far along developed fetus that their body is able to support them in a homeostasis manner without the need for medical assistance in order to live. That, to me, is a sentient, functional, and independent human being.
Obviously if you don't feed ANYTHING it will eventually die. If you don't feed an adult human for some time they will die too. That goes for any stage of life. You can use the same argument for a toddler, or a child who needs their parents to feed and provide for them in order to live, but otherwise can survive physically on their own, in that their organs are functional if given nutritional needs.

As I said before, I'm glad late abortions are very rare though as I do not support those (I think they account about 1% of all abortions).

agree, also just wanna point our that the majority of late-term abortions aren't because the mom waited to decide she doesn't want the baby, it's usually because the doctors realize:
1. the baby isn't healthy enough to survive
2. the birth puts the baby and/or the mother's life in serious danger

 

[Alienfish]

^yes thank you kiwi. i highly doubt people recklessly abort them that late so yeahhhh..

also agree with LD 100% like no they don't give a hoot about the baby they just wanna control women and "ayy baby jesus therefore mom must be holy mary" and religious/traditional bull****. They wanna punish women for being sluts and sleeping around and god only knows.

 

[Tessie]

agree, also just wanna point our that the majority of late-term abortions aren't because the mom waited to decide she doesn't want the baby, it's usually because the doctors realize:
1. the baby isn't healthy enough to survive
2. the birth puts the baby and/or the mother's life in serious danger

what study or statistic source are you referencing that states late-term abortion is based on the majority of those two reasons? im genuinely trying to find that.

from what i found, a study published in a peer-reviewed medical journal for sexual & reproductive health, (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/4521013), states that the majority of women who undergo late-term abortion "... fit at least one of five profiles: They were raising children alone, were depressed or using illicit substances, were in conflict with a male partner or experiencing domestic violence, had trouble deciding and then had access problems, or were young and nulliparous."

it's really sad :/ i just dont know what to think. i feel for the fetus, but i also feel for what kind of life it would endure under these circumstances. i feel a bit conflicted

 

[LambdaDelta]

also, since I was finally able to dig it up, here's a solid twitter thread from a little while back that breaks down why the current "pro-life" anti-abortion argument is completely full of **** and anything but

keep in mind though, that because of the topic at hand, it does go into a bit of textually nsfw territory

 

[Sinmenon]

One of the most brilliant pieces of pro-choice protests was a poster saying something like "Ban Viagra. If pregnancy is God's will, so it is impotence".

-ahem-
Regardless of your side in the argument, I think the most important aspect is maturity. If you are pro-choice or pro-life, it is important to have at very least having an stable partner. Depending on where you live, there's no maternity leave either so it is yet another thing to be taken into consideration. If you want to be responsible for a small defenseless life then you must act like a mature adult. Having a baby isn't like playing doll, it is big.
Every family has a story, and some are in more complex situations than others. Some moms end up having to raise the child alone without any sort of support. Some might be on drugs or having depression. And in many places around the world people still think that the best way to don't have people getting pregnant is not talking about it, like pregnancy and everything both before and after it is a huge taboo. Despite having access to information we also have a lot of fake news, and we are getting even less prepared to handle children now. And some people don't even have this degree of wareness either.

Some of my friends always wanted to have a family, being a mother and all this happily ever after stuff and they are living the dream, more power for them! And some of us either aren't in a rush or even want babies, and that's fine too.

 

[lowaltitude]

By independently survive, I mean without any medical interventions in order to support any under-developed respiratory or cardiovascular system. Basically without medical assistance, the infant would die.
That's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about aborting a healthy far along developed fetus that their body is able to support them in a homeostasis manner without the need for medical assistance in order to live. That, to me, is a sentient, functional, and independent human being.
Obviously if you don't feed ANYTHING it will eventually die. If you don't feed an adult human for some time they will die too. That goes for any stage of life. You can use the same argument for a toddler, or a child who needs their parents to feed and provide for them in order to live, but otherwise can survive physically on their own, in that their organs are functional if given nutritional needs.

As I said before, I'm glad late abortions are very rare though as I do not support those (I think they account about 1% of all abortions).

Those are very fair points you raise! I cannot debate someone's morality on any subject because that is, well, subjective. Your reply however made me question: Why draw the line right there in the first place?
(On this side of the line abortion is okay, fetus is not developed enough | But on this side it's not. The baby can survive.)

We keep babies who were born prematurely alive by technological means. I assume your answer is no, but would you say you see these babies as 'less' than the healthy babies you describe, who don't need any external systems? It delves away from the topic of abortion, but I do think it's something worth thinking about. It might be able to shed some light on the grey area of 'when is a human considered a person?'
I very much respect your view and don't wish to start an argument, but rather a discussion about topics I've never really had the privilege of of talking about.

 

[Tessie]

Those are very fair points you raise! I cannot debate someone's morality on any subject because that is, well, subjective. Your reply however made me question: Why draw the line right there in the first place?
(On this side of the line abortion is okay, fetus is not developed enough | But on this side it's not. The baby can survive.)

We keep babies who were born prematurely alive by technological means. I assume your answer is no, but would you say you see these babies as 'less' than the healthy babies you describe, who don't need any external systems? It delves away from the topic of abortion, but I do think it's something worth thinking about. It might be able to shed some light on the grey area of 'when is a human considered a person?'
I very much respect your view and don't wish to start an argument, but rather a discussion about topics I've never really had the privilege of of talking about.

Yeah that does kind of delve away from the topic of abortion and more so on the thought of philosophy itself. But no, I do not see these premature babies any less than a healthy infant. Any human being who has come into this world and requires medical assistance deserves to receive it if available. I believe that is basic human rights. If a woman's chose to keep her pregnancy and she unfortunately went through premature labor, then absolutely, we must do everything in our power to keep the newborn alive. Late-term abortion where you abort a fetus that is viable outside the womb is something that is very hard for me to accept because they are much more developed and sentient than a fetus who was aborted very early in pregnancy. Sentience is extremely important to me. I know if I was an OB-GYN, I don't know if I could morally do late-term abortions. I agree that I hold a much more developed fetus to a higher standard than one that is a few weeks post fertilization.


Also I love debating! No need to be cautious with me I like when people make me think lol. As long as one is respectful and mature like you are, I don't start arguments

 

[TheRealWC]

Being male, it's not my decision to make regarding a woman and her body. I guess that makes me pro-choice.

 

[KnoxUK]

Seriously this forum never ceases to surprise me on intense debates.